Trainspotting - S11 E83

Get ready to Choose Life (and a podcast!), because Season 11 is officially here, and we're kicking off our brand-new theme of 'Drugs' movies with a true behemoth of 90s films: Danny Boyle's iconic Trainspotting (1996).

Join us as we unpack why Trainspotting has captivated audiences for decades, despite its characters being, well, mostly "assholes". We dive deep into the film's gritty depiction of heroin use – a portrayal that absolutely, objectively does not glamorize addiction, no matter what Bob Dole (who hadn't even seen it!) might have thought. We'll explore how Danny Boyle's visionary direction, heavily influenced by Kubrick's A Clockwork Orange, delivers a visually experimental and energetic experience despite its heavy subject matter. You’ll hear about the famous "Worst Toilet in Scotland", which still manages to skeeve Sarah out to this day and wonder if there is "too much poo" in this movie.

We’ll dissect the infamous "Choose Life" monologue, which turns out to be far more cynical than many might initially believe. We’ll also give our two cents on the film’s unique cast, from Ewan McGregor's smug Renton, Robert Carlyle's terrifying Begbie, Jonny Lee Miller's Sick Boy, and Ewen Bremner's surprisingly pure Spud.

Here’s what you can expect from this episode:

• We discuss why Trainspotting was chosen to kick things off in season one.
• Expect a deep dive into the controversial accusations of the film "glamorizing" drug use.
• We break down the unlikable, yet entertaining, ensemble of characters including Ewan McGregor's Renton, Robert Carlyle's Begbie, and Ewen Bremner's Spud.
• We consider Trainspotting as a coming-of-age narrative, particularly for Renton.
• Hear about the infamous feud between Danny Boyle and Ewan McGregor.

Season 11 runs until August 11th with 8 episodes

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello and welcome to Shoot the Hostage with me, Sarah, and my partner Dan. We're a movie podcast and we cover eight films per season on a specific theme. Now, we swear we chat major spoilers and we occasionally cover triggering topics. So, please do use listener discretion. If you like what we do and want to support us, consider hitting five stars on Spotify or maybe subscribing or even reviewing on your platform of choice. We also have a Patreon with a free tier for lineups and updates and two paid tiers with extra cont. content and early ad free uploads. Right, on with the show. We are back for a brand new season.

(00:01):
We are
number 11. Insane,
isn't it? We probably spoke about this in season 10, which was the one that we did before 11, if you can imagine,
which we only finished recording a week ago. This is why this feels very strange to me.
Yeah. And we're straight back in with with season 11. Uh it was a combined choices uh last season, the flop season. This time it's gone back to you. Yeah.
You've chosen a theme, which we've announced already. Everyone knows what it is, but prefer just to humor me, what what is the theme this season?
Drugs.
It's drugs. We're doing drugs, baby. Yeah.
And today we're talking about one of the quintessential drugs movies.
Yeah. I mean, so in my research, everybody sort of refers to Cristiana F as the drugs movie.
Right.
I haven't seen it yet, so don't come for me.
I am planning to rectify that because I did buy a copy of it.
Yeah, you did, didn't you? Well, you we might talk about it at some point this season.
I'm sure it'll come up in the rap show if nothing else.
So, it's not in the lineup then?
It's not in the lineup? No. because I didn't want to torture you too much. Like
Well, that's the other thing that we're going to talk about quite a lot this season. It's just
God, you love a depressing movie, don't you?
I do. Bleak it up, baby.
Yeah, I know you do. It's funny. Like, on the one hand, I would have expected me to come up with this theme, but on the other hand, when I started looking at the movies to choose from, I probably would have gone, "Nah, actually, I'm not."

(00:22):
So, it's interesting that you've come up with this one and the lineup. as well is interesting. I I appreciate you you trying to balance it out a little bit cuz there are some there are some
Well, if you if you're a member of Patreon, you would you know the lineup. It's on the it's on our um free tier, but we haven't announced it on the main feed. We just sort of announced them one week at a time. But there is I think it's got quite a good rhythm to it. Like the lineup
there are some bleak bastards in there, but there I think there's a couple of antidotes to the bleakness as well. So I think it's Well, we'll see how the journey goes, I guess. But
it was difficult because my instinct was just like eight of the most depressing movies you've ever seen in your life.
But then I realized that A, people are going to start tuning out. B, everyone already thinks I'm a weirdo. And C, you might rage quit the podcast
and I can't do this alone.
I might just start weeping under the stairs.
Yeah. Curled up in the fetal position. Yeah. Rocking.
Yeah. Yeah. That'll be my my life for the next eight weeks.
Yeah.
So, we are we are back on eight this time and we've started off with, as I say, the quintessential drugs, like
it's one of the greats, isn't it?
It's one of the greats, but it's it's not just a We'll talk about it, I guess, but I don't see it just as a drugs movie, really. It's it's more about It definitely is, but it's it's got so much other stuff going for it. The era, it's a very British movie. It's very much steeped in British culture, particularly at that time in that era. So, it's got a lot of things, a lot of things we could probably avenues we could probably go down.
So, where do we want Do we want to start that it was uh based on book?
Let's start there. Yeah, it was based on book. It's a book that I've read.
Okay. How did that go for you?
I remember enjoying it. Look, I know like there was a huge kind of Irving Welsh boom when Train Spotting came out and you couldn't go into an HMV and move for copies of p**** and Train Spotting
and whatever else he he wrote. But
I think I got sucked into that a little. little bit because I loved Train Spotting when it first came out. Absolutely loved it. So, I did read the book. I did read p****. I've read a third as well, but I can't remember what it was.
Passid House.
No,

(00:43):
that's the only other Welsh that I could name you.
No, that was the same sort of era, wasn't it? Was that closer to 2000? Maybe.
I I did see the film and it was about that time,
right?
So, yes.
Yeah.
But I I remember very little about the about the books if I'm being being completely honest.
Okay.
I seem to remember them being written in a quite a regional way.
I've heard that. I've not read anything by Welsh, but I've heard in my research that the book is quite slangy. It's quite there's a lot of colloquial terms in there and things that if you're outside of that area, you might not necessarily understand.
Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. And also kind of I guess very similar to a clockwork orange, which is going to come up multiple times.
I think you're right. Yeah.
Just just the fact that cuz I read that probably around the same era
based on book
A clockwork orange Anthony Burgess. Yeah.
Um and I I just I seem to remember that being
I don't know not inaccessible but close to
just with the invented verbiage. It was interesting. It was an interesting read but yeah very similar in that sort of in that sort of aspect. I think
I think it's got a lot of I I I do believe that Bole was influenced by Kubri,
uh,
particularly Clockwork Orange on on this movie. And you can see it like the the the kind of the themes, the youth. So, it does definitely does have those those things about it. And also the fact that they're they're both highly controversial movies, or at least they were when they came out. Yeah.

(01:04):
And and a lot of people had things to say. They had a lot of opinions.
There's a lot more explicit references as well, like the um I can't remember what the bar is called that they go to.
Volcano.
That's it. Volcano Club or whatever it is. Um, like the writing on the wall is very much like it's it's the same font as the Milk Bar in A Clockwork Orange.
The song that's playing is by Heaven 17 who got their name from A Clockwork Orange. It's all very purposeful.
Yeah.
Um, so yeah, I think there must have been some heavy influence there.
Yeah, definitely.
Also kind of a film in which the protagonists are not remotely likable.
Well, I was going to ask about the character Okay.
Um, you don't think any of them are remotely likable?
It's tough, isn't it? Cuz I know I mean it's going to be really difficult to talk about this season in a in a sensitive way because I think on the face of it it's just like, yeah, we're doing movies about drugs. But in all likelihood, that's going to involve some quite serious discussion, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah. I can't wait.
Yeah. But particularly here, like straight out of the gate, we're talking about like the nature of addiction.
Yeah.
The fact that it's a disease and I recognize that it's not always something that people have complete control over. So, it's really difficult to say that none of them are at all likable because they're in the grip of something that's influencing their behavior. But, I think, yeah, some of them are hard to be around.
I think I think 95% of the people in this movie are assholes. Yeah, I know. I just I Just think for me there are aspects of probably each character that I wouldn't go as far as to say I like. Maybe it's just that it's entertaining and they entertain me. These characters watching them is fun.
Yeah. Watching Begby's
Yeah. an absolute writer, but oh my god, would I be terrified if I were in the same room as him.
Yeah. Absolute piece of work. But Robert Carlyle absolutely nails it. And it's fun to watch.

(01:25):
Mhm. Yeah. I think actually it' been such a long time since I'd seen this movie, I'd forgotten how how funny it was.
Oh, really? What's um When did you first You saw it when it came out? 96. So, like
it was all anybody was talking about. So,
yeah. I It might have been a couple of years before I saw it. Maybe. I don't know. I definitely remember it coming out and Born Slippy was everywhere. I believe it was number one for a while,
right?
Um great song by the way. Still great. Still sounds fresh. Like I hear listen to it now and I think that could come out today and still be like, "Oh, this is different."
Honestly, I think think you can say that about most of this movie's soundtrack.
Yeah,
a lot of it is I wouldn't necessarily go as far as to say timeless, but it's not super dated.
No,
maybe some of the more Brit pop stuff, but the rest of it still sounds pretty great.
Yeah.
Even aggy pop, which was like not even from the '9s.
No. So, you saw it when it came out then. You and you saw it a lot. You were quite into it.
Obviously, you wanted to read the book and you read p****, which is the sequel.
Mhm.
To to to Train Spotting.
Yeah.
Um,
don't quiz me though. I remember very little about the books.
Okay.

(01:46):
It's been a long time.
So, it's kind of always been with you since it came out. This this film,
I guess. So, yeah,
it's it I've got an odd relationship with this movie. I remember it coming out. I think it was a couple of years before I saw it, watched it, didn't love it.
Okay.
I kind of was like,
surprises me.
I think it just depressed me a bit,
I think.
But then I probably wasn't overly analytical about it. I wasn't thinking about it too much. The older I've gotten and the more I've watched this film, the more I I like it.
Okay.
Weirdly, you would think it would kind of be perhaps the other way around. You know, I was a teenager when it came out. You would think it would be more appealing to me then.
Yeah.
But I found it actually quite um depressing and and tough to get through back then. So, I went years without watching it. But now I've sort of seen it a few more times as an adult. I can a lot more things in it and it's not just a depressing drugs movie. In some parts it's quite um optimistic in in ways. It feels like a weird thing to say. There are things that happen in it.
Yeah, it does feel like a weird thing to say cuz I actually I'm not going to completely disagree with you, but I think it's quite a cynical film.
It's a very cynical film, but it's it's it's it's about the potential in some ways, the potential of youth. And it's sort of like a coming of age movie in a lot of ways. It's it's depressing in that all of these characters are in this environment and and uh they end up taking drugs for I guess all similar kind of reasons and it's very honest about why people would turn to drugs and and um heroin in particular in this case
but I also think it's it's quite a naive film in that I think feel like the particularly the Renton character maybe they're quite cynical about pop culture and you know we're not going to choose what our parents chose we're going to tread our own path And I think it's kind of optimistic in the way that they yeah, it's the potential of youth and the the directions that they could go. I guess not all of them have um full lives in this movie as well, which is one of the depressing parts of it, I guess. But I don't know.
I think they had to sort of cover that element of of heavy drug use, though, because
absolutely
it wouldn't necessarily have been realistic to shy away from that.
Yeah.

(02:07):
And I think I mean I find it funny that they were already accused of kind of glamorizing this side of heroin use. I can't think of a less glamorous portrayal that I've seen.
Nothing in the movie Train Spotting makes me want to try heroin.
God, no. The whole film is actually quite disgusting.
Oh, quite disgusting. The worst toilet in Scotland.
God, that's one of five scenes that you can watch and taste
in a movie.
Oh, you can smell it through the screen for sure.
Apparently, it was chocolate, so it smelled quite pleasant.
I don't care. That doesn't make any difference. Like if you threatened me, a bit of a call back to last season. If you threatened me with the worst toilet in Scotland or the bog of eternal stench, I'm choosing the bog of eternal stench.
Yeah,
every time.
That's fair.
There's so much poo in this movie, isn't there?
There's too much poo in this movie. And that's I'm going to kind of give away my feelings on the matter. I I kind of have the opposite experience to you.
Okay.
Uh obviously loved it in my youth. Don't like it quite as much now
and I don't know why that is. I think one of the reasons is that it just skeves me out. I don't want to see somebody waking up in his own s***.
You chose this movie.
I know. And we watched my copy of it.
I'm aware of all this. I'm not saying it makes sense, Dan.
Um Yeah. I don't know. It's just it's it's gross, isn't it?

(02:28):
Yeah. There are elements of it that are gross and elements that are tough to watch and hard to watch. And I'm thinking of in particular, I guess, the baby stuff.
I I would I would watch way more of the baby stuff than the poop stuff. I don't care what that says about me.
Yeah,
I think that's one of the reasons anyway. Another just sort of I don't know. It's bizarre. I don't get as much out of it now, even though I probably appreciate the creativity way more than I did when I first saw it.
Let's unpack that. What What's that What's that about then? Is it Did you find it shocking when you first saw it? Was it
I think I must have done.
Was it Did it like hit you over the head like Wow, this this this movie is different and it's it's really tapped into that culture. Growing up in the '9s was this this movie was everywhere in the in the mid '90s and like I say that song as well. So you kind of
it was always always there, but I wonder
it was pretty inescapable for a long time.
Yeah.
And they marketed it so heavily.
Yeah, definitely. It's weird. It is weird that that you and I have had almost completely opposite experiences of this of this film.
Yeah. But but like I say, I can appreciate it on an artistic level way more than I could and yet I like it less.
Were you a fan of Danny Bole when this Did you see Shallow Grave before Train Spotting?
No, I'd have seen that after.
So Train Spotting would have been your first Danny Bole unless you watched those two episodes of Inspector Morse.
No, I didn't.
I mean, my mom may have had them on. I don't know.
I probably did. Cheers, Nan. But not realized it. So Danny Bole was not a name for you. saw.
I had no idea who he was.
All right.

(02:49):
Had no idea I'd been one town over from him.
Yeah. Northern Northern guy. Was it Radcliffe?
Near your gaff, isn't it?
Collo. Collo. Oh god, I can't get my words out. Collo. No,
colloally. Now, we'll cut all this out and just you say it properly and then you'll sound like a genius.
Colloquially, not in his dog s*** valley.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Okay.
Dog s*** valley. Maybe that's why There's so much turd in this film.
Maybe. Maybe.
Yeah. Um, yeah, it's a bit of a dump.
Okay.
Next to the town that I grew up in, good old Berry,
also a dump.
Yeah. I don't Do you know anything about how Danny Bole came to the material? Like, what was that process?
I believe the producer, Andrew McDonald, had given him the book
to read and he read it and gone, "Oh, s***. Yeah, that's great." Like, maybe we can do something in this and we can adapt it.
I think Maybe that's how it went, but I'm not 100% on that cuz the book was everywhere. So, he may have just read it on his own. I don't know.
Cuz Shallow Grave did pretty well, didn't it?
I believe so. Yeah. I don't don't know numbers on it. I

(03:10):
It was wellreceived critically. I know that. And I'm pretty sure it was like on film four all the time.
Yeah. I haven't seen that in forever.
No, me either.
I It's probably the first time I was aware of Danny Bole as as as a film. I think I was aware of Shallow Grave, but as the man Danny Bole, this filmmaker, this fresh new voice, and then obviously went on to do other movies which we may which we may touch on and not least T2 sequel to Train Spot.
I hate calling it T2. It's so confusing. There is one T2 to my mind.
Oh, I agree. But it's amusing to me that they called it that. Anyway,
sticking with Danny Boil then, what what would you say is the peak boil for you? We were having a small discussion before we started recording. We didn't go quite into depth because maybe save it for the pod, but you were starting to say that you think that Boil's more my more my guy than your guy.
Yeah, I think so.
And what why is is that do you think? What's what's the peak of Boil's movies for you? What's your favorite boil, Danny Bo?
I mean, it's got to be 28 Days Later, right?
Or Sun Sunshine.
Oh, do you know what? I always forget about Sunshine. Yeah, maybe Sunshine then 28 Days Later.
Anything he's done with Alex Garland.
Yeah.
Or and um Killian Murphy apparently.
Yeah. So yeah, what about you?
I think my favorite is Steve Jobs, but I do if you'd have asked me five years ago or certainly before 28 day uh Steve Jobs came out, it would have been 28 Days Later,
right?
I do really like Sunshine, but I find Steve Jobs such an interesting movie and so rewatchable
and I just script for that sin. Yeah, I thought it was cuz he only writes white men.
Yeah. troubled white men. Yeah.

(03:31):
Yeah. I don't know. That movie didn't do it for me.
No, I know. I know it didn't.
I tried. I gave it my best shot.
No, that's fair. I I think I think that's my favorite one. My favorite Danny Bole movie. But yeah, also love 28 Days. Um 127 Hours I really like even though it's Franco, but I think he gives an extraordinary performance in that.
Um The Beach I quite like.
It's not a perfect movie, but I think it's kind of interesting.
Yeah, that That was probably my first introduction to Alex Garland and I read The Beach off the back of that movie as well.
Um, yeah. I don't know. I I hated it when it came out. I rewatched it again maybe 5 years ago and enjoyed I enjoyed it more. And I don't think like the first time I watched it, I wouldn't have had a clue who like Tilda Swinton was or any any of that. So with the with my current level of context, it was more interesting.
Yeah.
But then it gets to like the video game bit and I'm just like and I know it's Danny Boy's thing to sort of throw in these really experimental um like points of view and techniques. I don't think they're always successful.
No, I I would agree with you. I don't think that he's always successful, but he does take chances and I respect that.
Yeah, I admire that. He's a very visual filmmaker and I do like that about him. He's very experimental and he's also, I think, one of the great collaborators. I I've heard him speak publicly about he's not really a fan of the O2 situation. And anyone that can get Aaron Sin to collaborate, I think must have collaboration running through their veins. I think I think that he's he's very
kind of notoriously um particular about his work then.
I've heard that. Yeah, I've heard that. Although I listened to Danny Bole on WTF just after Steve Jobs has come out, so I guess it was the promo tour that he was doing for that. And um Yeah, Maron was kind of saying, "Oh, but Sawkins a he's a bit of a pain, right?" Like, you know, if you want to change his way, but uh Bole was like, "No, he's he's fine. You know, we got on very well and we collaborated." So,
I just get the impression that he likes to take ideas from a lot of places. He's not so married to his own ideas. He can like develop things with the crew and the team and take ideas from all over the place. And I like that. I respect that. I think there's
I think it Yes, Our they I do like some Our film makers and what they put out and I I enjoy that they have their own vision and it kind of feels pure,
but also I think not enough is said about collaborators because it is a collaborative medium. It's hundreds and hundreds of people that work on these things
and sometimes the directors they get all of the praise or all of the blame and it's not it's not fair either way. It's not fair. Um and I just think you can see that a lot more with with Bo and he's quite honest about about that and I like that about him.
Okay.
Whether it's whether they're successful or they're not. I don't think he's made a bad movie. I can't think of one. One that
didn't he make that weird romcom?

(03:52):
Um
something to do with the Beatles.
Oh, yeah. No, I didn't love that one. Yeah.
See, I haven't watched it.
I didn't love that one. But do you know what? That kind of doesn't really feel like a Boil movie to me. That that feels like a Richard Curtis movie because Richard Curtis wrote it.
Oh, right. Okay.
I think he was meant to direct it.
Oh. Bole came along cuz I think what what I I think what the situation was was that Danny Bole was supposed to be directing the last James Bond movie.
Oh, okay.
No time to die.
Yeah.
But Danny Bole just didn't have the time.
Um, no, they disagreed like on the direction of it, so he decided to not do that. And I believe it was probably just a circumstance of timing. Curtis was like, "Oh, we got this." So that's maybe in my opinion his worst movie. But I still don't think it's terrible. I just don't like it very much. That's fair.
But I can imagine someone else who's into that more courteous situation going, "Yeah, this is all right."
Um, but yeah, I can't think of a bad movie he's done.
No, I think you're probably right there. I think a lot of his movies don't necessarily work for me, but that doesn't that's a matter of personal taste. It doesn't mean they're bad.
No, but they're all all interesting and it seems like he he tries to do different things. He's done drama, he's done thriller, he's done horror, he's done sci-fi.
I don't think Steve Jobs feels like a a Boil movie.
It feels like a stalking movie, doesn't it? But I think Fincher was meant to do that,
right? Okay.
So, I I think he maybe just slips into like if if the person who was originally going to do a thing doesn't do a thing, it's like let's get boiled.

(04:13):
But I wonder who was meant to direct the Olympics in 2012.
Huh?
Did Yeah. Did you you know the Olympics when we had it in the UK?
No. Well, I Yeah, I knew that that happened.
Yeah.
I didn't fall asleep for an entire summer.
Well, um Bo directed the like opening ceremony bit.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Yeah. And Like the bit where there was a queen, they pushed the queen out the plane or whatever and she did a parachute jump.
The queen did a parachute jump.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
I think so. I might be misremembering that, but
I That doesn't That doesn't sound real.
I don't think she was doing it for real. It was probably a CGI thing. CGI Queen probably.
Arguably better than the real thing.
I wonder if that I wonder if that's why that they offered him a knighthood
cuz he CGIed the queen jumping out of a plane.
Yeah. Yeah. After that.
Yeah. I mean And that's the natural conclusion one would draw

(04:34):
which he turned down and I love.
Good man.
Yeah. If someone turns down a nighthood like whoever they are maybe there's some exceptions but like automatically that makes me respect you like 25% more at least.
It's just kind of meaningless isn't it?
Yeah.
What does it matter?
I don't know. Maybe you get discounts in wagger mama or something
in that case.
Yeah. Tax discounts. Tax benefits.
Yeah. Yeah.
There must be some benefit
that we're not aware of. Um, so back to Train Spotting. You say you watched it when it came out?
Maybe shortly after.
Maybe like two years after. I want to say so it came out in 96.
I would have been 12 years old.
So probably a bit young to be watching Train Spotting, I guess, but not that that would have stopped me.
But two years after was when you're getting your Guy Riches, you're getting your locks and that whole thing is starting to begin as well. which I guess Train Spotting was somewhat responsible for to a degree. A lot of the the gritty British gangster/drugs movies that we got in the late '9s and early 2000s and it's still going on now to a certain degree. Probably responsible for Train Spotting, but I think
So, you're saying Train Spotting is responsible for the Football Factory 16 or whatever we're up to now.
100%. Yeah.
God damn it.
But, but I think so I think what what happened was about 98 when Locktock came out and I love that. I was like, "Right, well, let's everything." Yeah.

(04:55):
Um, and like I say, I saw it about that time, but didn't didn't love it. Was just like, "Oh, this is a bit depressing."
So, you say you get more out of it now, though, so I'm interested to know what's changed for you. Why why your opinions changed over the years?
Uh, and when was the last time you watched this?
What? Before last week?
Yeah.
It was probably about five years ago, I would say.
Okay. So, fairly recently.
Recentish. Yeah. I've probably only seen it three times as adult.
Okay.
There was one time I cuz like I say I saw it when I was a teenager. Another time I watched it maybe in my mid20ies and it got to a point and we watching it with my mates and we switched it off cuz we were like this is not the time for this. This did the the the situation did not call for watching train spot. Let's just put it that way.
Okay.
Um so I switched it off and then maybe about 5 years ago I was like let's give this another go. So I think it was probably about then but I think context might be relevant. It might be that partly because I'm a big fan of Danny Bole, maybe I can see a lot of boilerisms,
if you can imagine the phrase. Um, seeing where he came from that kind of looking back to that time period, the layers of the movie, the different characters and their their reasons for being there and doing the things that they do is I I don't know. I think I can just get my teeth stuck into it a lot more than I could back then.
Okay.
And I can think about it a bit more. more. I mean, I was a stupid teenage boy then.
Yeah, I think I can just app I don't really know what it is. I just appreciate it a bit more, I guess.
I just think about it more rather than just being entertained by a thing, which is great, but I now I can look at it and go unpack it a bit more in my brain.
And I've been thinking about it a lot this week as well. Okay.
Obviously, it helps if you think about the thing that we're going to talk about.
It's pretty useful. You you mentioned boilms. What do you consider to be some of his um kind of signatures.
Um it's tough, isn't it? Because he does do very different things, but like I say, I think he's a very visual filmmaker, very experimental. Some surreal aspects, I guess.

(05:16):
I think text on screen seems to be a big one. Does it
in the films that I've seen? Yeah.
Or it certainly is between Train Spotting and Transporting 2. Anyway,
the two Danny Bole films I've seen in the last week.
Yeah.
Yeah. And and kind of weird perspective stuff.
Yeah.
Like um there's there's that really interesting shot that almost puts you inside a syringe
at one point.
Um I I think I don't think there's many filmmakers that would think to do that.
Yeah.
So I guess maybe like the weird first person stuff could be one.
Yeah. No, I totally would agree with that. I think
what are what are some others then do you think?
Oh, it's difficult to say. I think it's just visually just visually for me. Just the experimental nature cuz he's so different from project to project I think but you could there's also always an element of this is is this a Danny Bole movie
that I can't think of what the do you did you see the movie Trance
I think I did
me too I think I did and I saw it was like that was okay
but is there also a film called Welcome to the Punch that came out around the same time
yes
and I think for a while I got the two muddled up

(05:37):
right
I'm not saying they have anything in common cuz I don't know if they do
maybe James Makavoy is in both
right there must be some sort of connection that Brains made
makavoy is definitely in welcome to the punch because I own it.
Right. Okay.
But I don't own trance.
I don't know. No, I don't really remember trans.
I know it was about therapy. It was a about um like hypnotherapy and doing a heist or something in your brain.
I don't know.
But yeah, I don't
Doing a brain heist.
Brain heist. Yeah.
Isn't that Inception?
Um yeah, I guess so. Yeah, maybe it was just jumping on the Inception Inception hype.
Do you think there is a more iconic '90s moment than the opening to this movie.
The jogging bit.
Well, yeah. They're running away from wherever they've shoplifted from.
Yeah. Which is like halfway through the movie.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(05:58):
But that's how it opens.
Yeah. And then they're like, "Oh, we go back to the beginning or whatever." Yeah. Um it's Yeah. It's iconic for sure.
And the choose life kind of monologue.
Yeah.
Which I think a lot of people mistakenly took to be quite optimistic, but when you really listen to it, it's So cynical.
Yeah, it's it's very cynical.
Maximum cynical.
It feels very teenager.
It feels very like
angry at the world for unknown reasons.
It does. And I suppose that they are sort of you as Let me go off into a different direction. You asked me about the opening, didn't you? It is. Yeah, it's very It's very icon. It's iconic. Probably parodyed a thousand times.
That's what I'm thinking. Like it's sort of made its mark on cinema like very few films do.
Yeah.
Like obviously The The Shining is one of the most homagged films of all time. Psycho is probably another.
Yep.
But I think this kind of edges its way in there. You know, I can't think of another film from the '9s that is sort of more parodyied and homagged or referenced.
Titanic.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. All right. The King of the World thing.
Not as good, though, is it?

(06:19):
Given the choice between Trains And in Titanic, I'd rather watch Train Spotting.
So would I. I watched Titanic recently.
Did you?
Yeah.
Oh, you never told me that.
I was in a hotel room.
I have the s*** I have to watch. You get limited. It's like, well, what's on telly? I guess I'm watching that then.
And it's all It's all right, you know. Has it
It's a well-made movie.
Exactly. It's a well-made movie, but it's Yes. God, some of it's painful.
But it's also a romance.
Yeah.
But you like Billy Zayn?
I do. I preferred um Arnold Fostley, but yeah, Billy Zayn's all right. Um, yeah. Super iconic opening. Is it Who's the the music on the start? Is that Iggy Pop?
I think so.
Is it Lost for Life? Is that one of his songs?
Lost for Life is Iggy Pop.
Cuz I I'm not sure. I I feel like soundtrack is more you actually. Well, the first half maybe.
Did you know that David Bowie co-wrote Lost for Life?
No.
And because he enjoyed the book, he was a huge proponent in getting a good deal. for them to to license Lust for Life,

(06:40):
right? Okay.
Because it was looking to be like three times the budget initially.
So, he kind of finagled a deal for them
and that opened a lot more doors to to the other music that they were able to access.
Cuz the music is such an important part of this movie, isn't it? You do for a low budget. I think 1.5 million
Mhm.
English pounds I believe the budget was.
There's so much music in it and you are thinking how did you get all of this? But You can't imagine a film without it. It's so important integral to the plot and just mentioned the era, but just one of the things that works so well about this is placing it where it where it is in the mid '9s or
80s to mid '90s, I believe, is the sort of time span.
But to have David Bowie in there as well is is is super relevant and very on brand for your choices.
I didn't know that until today.
This is the third Bowie movie we've done. Technically,
we have him to thank
for some of the soundtrack, but yeah. it. Like you've mentioned it already, but Born Slippy, is it Underworld? Yeah. Yeah. I can't I can't listen to that without thinking of Train Spot. And I can't divorce the two.
I love that song. I think it's a great great tune. And I'm not on my own when I say that. I think the the first half of the soundtrack of this movie, I said it's more your speed, I think, than it is mine. Maybe like the icky pop stuff. And the second half, I think, is more my kind of thing because
probably Yeah.
The journey that this film goes on from I guess what 87 to 96 time frame. I think that's it's not explicitly said but I believe that was the intention of it cuz I think the book was set between the early 80s to late 80s.
Right.
So they wanted to do something different but make it relevant to this time period.
I'll be honest that was unclear to me.
I don't think it's important. Okay.

(07:01):
But I but I've heard them talk about that in interviews and stuff lots lots of talking heads and behind the scenes stuff, but I really like the a lot of the rave music that was coming about in the mid early to mid '9s and and beyond. So, I think that's where I was coming from more. Like when you get to the end of the movie and he goes to London and you get the bomb diggy diggity bomb diggy bomb like Yeah. I used to listen to that a lot ironic unironically and still do.
Yeah.
Um but it's interesting the journey that this film goes on. I think the music is so important to that because the music is is done chronologically as well. Like when they're in a club at the start of the movie, you've got like New Order and all that stuff and you already done the Iggy pop stuff and then as you go further you've got more I guess at that point contemporary contemporary tunes it's just so much part of the fabric and identity of the movie. So when you say that Bowie was involved yeah that makes total sense
and and that it's just used so well in I don't how much involvement did he have in it? Did was it did he just sort of help
broker that deal or did he have more influence in what songs were used where?
From what I know he just kind of helped leverage that deal.
He didn't want to sell one of his songs though.
I think one of his songs was supposed to be in
this movie. I maybe
But he was too expensive.
Maybe Golden Years. I don't know. I can't remember. But but yeah, they couldn't quite stretch that.
Yeah, it's fair.
It's maybe the only film in the last 30 years that hasn't featured a Bowie song.
Yeah.
Although, if we're including Lustful Life.
Yeah,
technically.
Yeah,
we got it on a technicality.
Do you have any idea how this film did outside of the UK? Not really. No, we're not in the flop season, so I haven't really done any research on it. I know that it was made for 1.5 million. I think I want to say it like grossed about 70 million or something worldwide.
Okay. 70

(07:22):
70 I think. Did I write this down? I don't think Oh, I did. I wrote down 72 million.
Okay.
So, worldwide. So, yeah. I mean, on a 1.5 million budget, that's an insane amount of profit.
Yeah. I know it did really well in the UK.
I just I struggle to imagine I'm thinking of Americans specifically. Non English speakers are just f*****, I guess. But they must have had to like go heavy on the subtitles. I
But even even with subtitles, some of the slang would just be completely lost on people who aren't at all familiar with it. Right.
A lot of it I didn't understand. I'll be honest with you.
Oh, like Spud's job interview is probably the best example of it.
I didn't understand most of what he was saying, but it almost doesn't matter
because he's his performance is so physical in that moment as well is you you know really what he's saying by his the way that he's acting and you know that he's screwing up that job interview
and just chatting because he's on on whiz
he's done some speed and um he's just chatting s*** and it's it's very funny that scene but yeah I don't really fully understand what the words are that he's saying something about pleasure and leisure
yeah
their pleasure is my leisure
my pleasure is other people's leisure right
I think
okay
cuz isn't like um a travel agent.
Uh I want to I thought maybe like a hotel or something.
Oh, I don't know then.
You really want um spud washing your sheets, do you?

(07:43):
No.
Well, maybe cuz maybe do a more thorough job.
He's had to learn how to do boil washes.
Yeah.
Do you
boil washes?
Very good. Danny boil washes.
That was completely intentional. Um do you have a favorite character and is it Squad?
Um I was also going to ask you this question.
Okay.
I like for favorite characters. Yeah, probably is Spud because he's the most likable. He feels like he's the most innocent.
I think he's the only likable one.
I mean, he's still not great. He's still robbing like old ladies and and not not a great guy, but he feels quite pure.
He feels a bit childlike.
Yeah.
Um it's difficult.
I don't know.
He's disgusting as well.
Yeah. He's grim.
I don't like Renon at all. I He does my head in. He's such like a smug just that s***** eating grin. Like just
Yeah.

(08:04):
Oh, he annoys me.
Well, I've never really been a fan of you and McGregor, so it's not really a stretch for me to to feel that way.
Yeah.
Um, do you think he's more or less smug than Johnny Lee Miller's character?
And who does the better Shan Connory impersonation?
I think he's more smug than Sick Boy.
Do you?
I do. I think I think Sick Boy is more they're all quite sad in their own ways.
Mhm.
I think sick boy is more tragic in a way. I don't know what it is.
In what sense?
Um I feel like sick boy is massively um what's the word? I can't think of the word I'm looking for.
Maybe his brain's been eroded by all the bleach that he's putting on his scalp.
He believes his own b*******. I think like he he'll talk about the the James on movies and just seems to love the smell of his own s***.
I like his little um his heroine shoes.
His heroine shoes.
His his shoes got like a compartment where he keeps his paraphernalia.
Yeah. Very smart. Yeah.
Yeah. I don't think M made that.
No. No. Maybe it was for that Sherlock Holmes show.
Oh, maybe. Yeah.

(08:25):
It should be like um like a Buzzfeed quiz, like a personality test. And if you say your favorite character is Begby, you immed mediately get carted off by the author authorities.
Well, I don't know. Like, I was thinking about this. Is he my favorite character? I don't I hate him.
Yeah. Or like him,
but he's very he's very well portrayed.
I I think Carlile's never been better.
And he What What else has Carl done? Obviously, he's train spotting in T2 and that one scene in um
28 weeks.
28 weeks. I know he's in more of that movie, but that what that first scene, I think he's he's really great in that. Um,
the Full Monty.
The Full Monty, which is a movie that I saw, I think.
And God, that was everywhere. That did my head.
Yeah.
And he was a villain in one of the James Bond movies, I think.
Oh, yeah.
A few like British gangster movies around that time as well.
Yeah. Really like interesting career, great actor. But
was he one of Plunkett and Mlean?
He was he was
Was that him and Johnny Lee Miller again?
Plunket or MLAN? Yes.
And and Live Tyler was that movie,

(08:46):
right? So that's why you know that one
for it.
No, I I actually owned that movie on VHS and it was rubbish. Yeah.
Well, I watched it more than once. I' probably seen that more than I've seen Train Spot.
There's this one point that was really worn out on the tape.
I'm not actually a fan of Flip Tyler.
Really? Is it cuz she looks quite a lot like her dad?
Yeah, that's part of it. Yeah, definitely.
It's tough to get past.
Yeah,
Tommy's kind of a entity, which is a horrible thing to say for such a tragic character.
Yeah, he's um I suppose he's probably the best of them, isn't he?
Probably
because he's honest. He There's that one story with Begby talking about beating someone up when they're playing Paul and Begby's basically lying and then a couple of days later Renon and Tommy are having a conversation and Tommy tells him the truth about that.
You know, I think isn't that when um Renon steals the s*******?
I think Yeah.
Which is the beginning of that character's unraveling. So Renon
Renon's awful.
He's a pain. He's a horrible guy. Yeah.
I think is that like a crime now? Would that come under revenge p*** laws?
I guess so. I don't

(09:07):
I think that's a crime to steal a s******* and show it to other people. I think is a crime. If it's not, it should be.
Well, I wouldn't do it even if it wasn't a crime.
I don't want to see any of my friends having sex. I love them to bits, but I don't want to see that.
No, it's the last thing you want to see. But yeah, I think um that character is He's a he seems like quite a sort of a decent character compared to everyone else anyway. And then when that happens, he starts to unravel and he wants to try to heroin cuz he's sort of dead against it up until that point.
Oh, he's like to the point of being a bit preachy about it.
Yeah.
Cuz he's the one who tries to get them to go on a hike.
Yeah. Yeah.
Which leads to grumbling about
Yeah.
how it's s*** to be Scottish.
Yeah. Which is a really good scene as well. And I and I but it's interesting that the even the character that is against it still falls victim to it because his circumstances have changed and he becomes desperate and it's a very tragic scenario with that character and but it's also interesting where Begby is also against the heroine but there's that scene where he's smoking a f** and drinking a pint going I wouldn't put that s*** in my hands
it's very interesting because it's everyone has an opinion on what these four central characters are doing but no one else is really any better doing their own versions of the same of the same thing really.
Absolutely. You see that sort of hypocrisy all over the place though and I would say like the modern equival equivalent of it at the moment is people who are just like I'm not putting that vaccine in my body. I don't know what that is. And then popping like 15 unregulated supplements that they bought from Amazon.
Yeah. Or just like becoming addicted to pain medicine, you know.
Yeah.
It is it's the same. It's no different. It's just been prescribed by a doctor.
But yeah, Tommy is so tragic because
Yeah.
You kind of get to see a different element of addiction there because yes, his life started going to s***, but I don't think he would have gone down that road if it weren't for the proximity to other drug users and the accessibility of heroin.
Yeah.

(09:28):
Like I think a lot of people just like, "Well, my life's not going the way I wanted. This s*** thing's happened. I'm going to go out and try and find someone to sell me heroin and then Google how to cook heroin."
I think I think that makes it so much more tragic is that that could have been avoided. just by having better friends.
Yeah. Yeah, definitely having better friends. And I think all that's kind of partly also what this film is about is choosing your friends,
right? Because they're they're all kids. They've grown up together. They're they all knew each other because of how close they were just physically in location. It's my neighbor. It's friend I met at school and that's why they're all mates.
It's interesting because actually Tommy has that when he's talking about Begby, isn't he? I think it's the scene where he's telling him the truth about that that that Paul sequence.
Yeah.
And he says, "Oh yeah, he's a bit of a crazy guy and he's a bit of a live eye, but what can you do? He's a mate." So, well, you could not be
Yeah, you could go no contact with that lunatic.
But you don't really think about that when you're a kid or at least I didn't anyway. You know, it took me years to figure that out to I don't have to be friends with anyone just cuz I grew up with this one person or or whatever or this person I'm related to. You don't have to.
That's part of maturing though, isn't it?
It's part of maturing. Yeah.
Taking a step back and going, Oh, this is toxic.
Yeah. And that's part of Renon's arc, I feel like. And it's it's part of the reason why I feel like this is a coming of age movie. I think quite clearly it is. I don't think you could really Do you do you agree with me when I say it's like a coming of age movie or
It is for Renton.
It is for Renton. Yeah. I don't know about anybody else.
I suppose you're right cuz no one else has that development, do they?
And I think it's interesting because I think I feel like this movie and the sequel are both coming of age movies but done very very differently and from opposite ends of the spectrum.
Okay.
I think in the original movie, it's about them growing up and looking at the possibility, looking ahead. And then in the second movie, it's about looking backwards and longing for the past, the pleasures and the adventure of the past. Even if, you know, if you carried on down that path, you probably wouldn't wouldn't even be here.
I think it's a really interesting juosition of those two movies. But um and done from very different perspectives. But yeah, I see them both as a coming of age movie. More than anything, probably. I feel like it's about developing over a period of time and outgrowing your friends and just trying to make better decisions or make decisions that aren't completely f****** stupid.
Yeah. That aren't 100% destructive.

(09:49):
When I say better decisions, I'm not saying everyone should rob 16 grand off their mates and do a
heroin. Don't do heroin. Don't steal from your mates. Don't statutory rape 16y olds.
Why is that scene in this movie?
Honestly, I'm not quite sure
cuz I was thinking about this too. It's very jarring when it's revealed that Kelly McDonald is a school girl and she she's like just in her uniform and Ren is like, "Oh, f***." And it's kind of played for laughs,
but then they sleep together a second time. That's
like I don't know.
The first time I'm not I'm not going to say like, "Yeah, you get a free pass cuz you didn't ask how old she was." But to show him going back for a second time is kind of that's the point for me at which I'm just like I don't like you.
Yeah, it's unforgivable at that point. Yeah, it is weird. I don't really know what it adds to the movie other than to sort of Maybe it is just for us to go Yeah. still not a great guy.
It's weird though, isn't it? Because I know I'm I'm kind of I'm trying to come around to your idea of it being a coming of age movie because I'd never really thought of them in that frame of mind.
But I guess I'm sort of used to there being more of a resolution or more growth more of a almost like a redemption arc I guess in coming of age movies and by the end of it yes Ron does get out and as we find out obviously later on gets clean
whatever else kind of starts kind of I don't know starts a new life
in Amsterdam
in Amsterdam yeah
but he's still a piece of s*** like he's still a bad person
I still don't like that character
yeah so there isn't a great deal of resolution there. Even though you're sort of supposed to root for him by the end, I guess
that's what I struggle with.
I think out of all of the characters, you're rooting for him purely because he's the main character.
I'm not rooting for any of them.
I'm sort of glad that he does make the decision that he makes. I mean, I wouldn't go anywhere near

(10:10):
Begby cash. No, you sort of just leave that scenario. And I guess the fact that he gives Spud 4,000 is kind of a bit of the redemption. arc that they're they're seeking. If he hadn't done that, I don't think you'd have any sympathy for that character at all.
Maybe.
But I think for me anyway, it's because he's the main character that I'm glad that he's done this. But I don't like him. I don't And maybe part of the maybe part of the thing that I don't like about him is well, one, he's smug as I've mentioned. Two, he feels like he's
one, his face.
His face. Yeah. Have to punch it. Um, another thing is that he feels very intelligent. Like he should know better than
Oh, yeah. Like a couple of the monologues he has, he's got a good grasp of um of the English language and he's quite um
eroddite in the way that he speaks.
Yeah.
Which is sort of odds with a lot of the decisions that he makes. Yeah.
But I guess you are viewing it through a lens of addiction.
Yeah.
It's it's not like is that really you if you're in the grips of something like that?
Yeah. I guess I guess you could argue it either way. I Yeah. I I He does my head in. He's he's I think feel like he should know better cuz he's quite an intelligent guy. Sick boy. I kind of have don't like him. Clearly, he's a piece of s***, but he's an idiot and I'm kind of a bit more sympathetic to him because he's he's not very bright, but thinks that he's quite intelligent. He Yeah, he's probably like good at problem solving or something and quite resourceful. Um, but he's not I perhaps forgive him a little bit more because I feel like he doesn't know really what he's doing. But Renton, he he knows what he's doing. He he manipulates people throughout this entire movie.
Yeah. Not least when he's he's um about to go down to prison where Spud gets sent down for 6 months and he gets out of it.
Oh yes, judge. I'm going to find God now and get myself clean. That's total bollocks. But he's saying it because he wants to get out of this situation. And he's done that quite a lot. But again, I suppose part of being an addict where you can you know how to sort of play people. You you you you hide things from people and and try and manipulate situations to get what you need or what you feel you need in that situation, I guess.
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I do think the the sequel kind of undoes some of that goodwill that you might have towards him though.
Yeah, I'd agree with that.
Um because he did act very selfishly. And even Spud has that line in T2 where he's kind of like, "Yeah, you gave me four grand. You gave four grand to an addict.
Yeah. What did you think I was going to do with it?"
Yeah. Exactly. Like he may have thought he was doing the right thing or a nice thing for his friend, but in reality it it kind of wasn't the favor that it was in his head. You're right. I think sort of particularly watching that second movie, I kind of feel like now leaving that 4,000 for Spud was more for Renton, more for his own consciousness
to appease his own guilt. Yeah.

(10:31):
The only one I felt bad about was Spud. So, I left him with four grand and now it's fine.
Yeah. I don't care about the others. I can sleep at night.
I just left him to his addiction.
Yeah.
What a friend.
But really, what he should have been doing is been there for him as a as a friend. Yeah.
Um because Yeah. Spud was probably again like we like we saying not the not a a saint by any means, but he's the purest.
He just so the impression that I get of that character is just that he's a bit of a follower.
He's not very intelligent. Although he is shown to be more intelligent than we thought than we maybe gave him credit for in the second film.
Yeah. And I like that. I like I like I like his development in
I do. I do. Yeah. I don't know necessarily that his kind of archetype is one I can blame for their own addiction. cuz he he sort of feels like he would have just gone along with whatever his mates were doing.
Yeah, I suppose so.
And I was that for a while. So maybe that's why I can sympathize with him. Like I wouldn't have started smoking at 12 if my friends hadn't been like we've got some some cigarettes meeting at the bus stop.
Yeah, there's a lot of that. But I I kind of feel like about about all of the characters really. They're all a product of their own environment.
You do get more of that in the second movie. I feel like they because they're looking backwards and there's a lot more flashbacks. Well, there's there's loads of flashbacks in the second movie that gives you more context, I think, about the characters. And I think they're all kind of victims of their own upbringing. Begby is is one. I feel like his arc in the second movie is he has a lot more to do that character
and you can see they humanize that character more in the second movie. I think he's way I think he's actually crazier in the second movie than he is in the first if you can imagine.
Agreed. Agreed.
But I feel like they also humanize him a bit more and you can see where he's come from and the kind of the toxic mascul environment that he must have been brought up in and didn't have the opportunities that his son is now having. You can sort of see his journey.
So, it's interesting that you've kind of hit on the toxic masculinity thing because I did read that um Robert Carlile played Begby as um like a self-hating gay man,
like a closeted angry like homophobic homosexual.
Yeah.

(10:52):
And I think he kind of presented that to Irvin Welsh and I Welsh was just like that's how I wrote him.
Brilliant.
Excellent. So, they were all very much on the same page there. And I think it's maybe more that's even more evident in the second film.
And I think he maybe makes a lot more sense in in that context.
Yeah. Because he's not a huge part of that first movie, is he? Particularly in the first he sort of pops up in in the first half and he has more to do in the second half when he catches up with Renon in London.
Mhm.
But he's not a major player in that first movie. Whereas in the second one, he's a major point and responsible for a lot of the plot threads in that in that one and he gets more to do and you explore that character more.
He was supposed to be like a really big um physically imposing guy as well.
I heard that originally they wanted or someone had suggested Christopher Eckleston I guess because of um Shallow Grave
right
done that but uh
for whatever reason someone suggested um Carlilele and he came in and he has that kind of small angry man energy
he's He's intense.
He's terrifying.
Yeah. He's so intense.
Yeah.
And I can't imagine anybody else in that role now. Certainly not Christopher Eckleston.
No, not Christopher Eckleston. While we're on the subject of casting, did you know that um Spud played the Renon character in the stage play originally?
I didn't even know there was a stage play originally.
Before the film came out. Why did the book came come out? Was it um Oh, I don't know.
In the late 80s or whenever sometime between the book coming out and the film, there was a stage play. Right.

(11:13):
And um Yuan Brener. Yuan Brenner. Confusing because there's more than one Yuan in this.
Yeah, the Euans.
The Euans. Yeah, Euan Brenner. Um yeah, he played the Lenton character and I guess was quite It's nice that he was not too offended that he wouldn't do the Spud character.
I was going to say, would that not be like devastating?
It must be, mustn't it?
Like we like what you did, but this guy's better.
Yeah. And Yeah. Even if like you've done a got to work on yourself and you've sort of let go of your ego as much as you can. Anyway, there still some of you cuz we're only human. You're going to be like,
but I do know that character. I did play that character for a while.
Yeah, but I could see him as Renton as well. I think he would be a good rent. He's so perfect.
Be a more likable Renon.
Yeah, I suppose so. But then maybe that's not what that character calls for. Yeah,
like I think he's perfect as a spider and I can't see anyone else playing that character. But I can see him playing the Renon character. I can't see you and McGregor doing the character and maybe I I feel like you McGregor is maybe a bit too pretty for this film.
Do you?
Yeah. Like what? I don't I feel like it should be a bit
I disagree.
Do you?
I do.
Okay.
I don't think he's pretty.
Okay, that's fair. I think I think many people would disagree with you.
I'm Look, I'm sure he's objectively handsome.

(11:34):
I don't think pretty is a word I would use. I think it's the specific specificity of the word pretty. I can't get my words out today. What a disaster. Yeah. I don't No, I don't see it.
Okay. Not that I think he looks like a rough and tumble type, but I think he's pretty damn well cast. As much as I don't like Renton.
Yeah.
Or you and McGregor. I think he does do a really good job.
The androgyny maybe of that character. Is that an interesting angle to come at this from? Is that relevant to the to the movie at all?
Where do you get androgyny from?
I I guess he cuz he's he's he's not a you look at Begby. He's the the kind of the poster boy of a te stereotypically masculine man of that time period.
Yeah.
Renton is probably a bit more feminine looking, right? He's a bit more
um it he doesn't have that Begby energy about him.
He's No, he's not hyper masculine, but I don't know if I'd say androgynous. He does wear tight t-shirts. That's
tight jeans. Very tight jeans.
Yeah.
I don't know if it I don't know if that's even true or even relevant to to the movie. And what what are we saying if we're if that's an intentional artistic choice, I don't know. But I guess, you know, if you're using it as a cipher, like this guy could be anybody.
I think the kind of scenario,
I think the tight clothing is uh practical. I think it's so he can be aerodynamic when like squeezing into a toilet,
right? Yeah.
Going for a swim in the world's worth toilet.
You drop your suppositories into a bug. Wear tight jeans.
Is that the most disgusting scene in this movie? Yeah, I reckon so.
Is it?

(11:55):
Yeah. Yeah,
cuz there's a couple that could take that title.
Yeah, I think Well, maybe the part where people have poo running into their mouths might be a bit bit grim as well.
I can't I can't deal with it. I think that's one reason your choice.
No, I know that. I know that. And I think it's a good film.
But I but I do think it's one of the reasons that I struggle with it more now than I did when I was younger. Because when I was younger, I was just like It's edgy.
Yeah.
And now I'm just like, I don't want to see that. That's gross.
Why is there so much poo in it?
I don't know.
I guess it's just part of that. It's a grimy movie. It's a very visceral experience.
And I do take Umbrage with the fact that this film is super critically acclaimed and everybody f****** loves it. But I'm a weirdo for liking Bad Boy Bobby, which is equally disgusting.
I thought you going to say Bad Boys. Maybe Bad Boys. Where Bubby? Yeah, that's that's a pretty good comparison to this movie, I think, isn't it? Like both
They're both equally grim.
Yeah. Both gross and grim and very difficult to watch in places.
Experimental.
Yeah. Yeah. Experimental. Yeah.
I don't like it.
Yeah. Both your choices, by the way.
I know. Yeah. Look, I'm secure in that.
I've seen a theme here.

(12:16):
Weird f****** movies that Sarah chooses.
I don't Do you think Transport is a weird movie?
Yeah.
Do you do I think Spotting is a weird movie.
Well, I struggle to put it in that category because it was so it's been so beloved and so embraced by regular people. I don't know how else to say it.
It It was so successful, I guess, critically, financially. It had its haters,
did it? Were there some people who hated it?
Yeah. I mean, people that would be lobbying against just the the the mere portrayal of drugs.
Well, I did read that um
the glorif people were saying that they were glamorizing it. I come off it.
But that's the mere portrayal apparently is glamorizing. I disagree.
So I did read that there was a senator in the US called Bob Dole who I'm not Bobby D.
Very familiar with. But he he I think I believe tried to get it banned in the US because he said it glamorized drug use.
Yeah.
Um also important to note he hadn't seen it.
Fascinating.
Which I'm sure is probably a common thread between the people saying it glamorizes drug use.
Yeah. I can't think of anything less glamorous.
It absolutely objectively does not glamorize the use of drugs. I think uh but even if maybe if Bob do even if he watches Train Spotting, is he really getting what you need to get from it? Like it's it's not glamorizing drugs, but it is exploring the reasons that people might take them. And I think in order to heal, if you like, you need to be honest about these things and have honest conversations. Like heroin addiction is a real problem
in many parts of the world and I think if you're just I don't know if you're bit it's a bit disingenuous to just portray something and go this is bad like people that do this are bad um you're going to have a bad life if you do these things. I think it's more important to explore why people would experiment with these things and also you know it's not all bad
people do these things and they continue to do them and you become addicted and you probably don't have control but some of that time you're just having a great time

(12:37):
and people don't really want to admit that. Um,
but that is I think it's very honest in that way and that's probably that's probably difficult for thing for people to swallow as well.
It's funny because I feel like people in power whether that's the US, the UK, wherever
do seem to just want to do one of two things and that's either make like an afterchool special just say no type deal. Dare to say no to drugs.
Talk to Frank.
Yeah. Or to just pull a curtain across it and pretend it doesn't exist.
Yeah.
Whereas, you're right, we absolutely need nuanced portrayals like this one
to shed a light on how big of a problem it is, but how addicts aren't um they're not legion.
Like they're human beings.
Yeah. But
they've all got their own idiosyncrasies, their own reasons for for doing what they do.
Yeah, you're 100 Yeah, you're 100% right. Because what you're doing by looking at the nuances of the situation, not demonizing it, you're going you're saying you're acknowledging that these people are human. beings and you know if we're in that situation we would have made exactly the same decisions.
We're not all that different. It's about where you are. Yeah.
And your influences and what you have around you. You know, we could all quite easily be in that situation.
And I think anything that helps to humanize addiction and addicts in general is probably going to encourage people to want to help them.
Yeah. Well, increases your knowledge increases empathy, awareness, and if you can have a discussion, an honest discussion about it, then that's when you start to figure things out.
Nothing's ever going to be perfect and you always have these problems. But
it's really I don't you just can't. It's not black and white. Unfortunately, a lot of the times I think people are seeking black and white answers to things. Yeah. And it doesn't exist. What exists is complexity and nuance and having a a discussion and honest open discussion about things and that's how you resolve and you move forward. And even that's not perfect, but it's the best that we've got, I think.
And there's too many movies where they're just People are taking heroin. I'm sure we're going to probably speak about a few of them in this season. People take take some drugs and then that's it. They're that's it now for them. They're off society and we hate them and we push them out or whatever and we're going to forget about them. But that's not an I don't find that particularly interesting to watch.
No.

(12:58):
As well and it's a bit bleak. And I find this kind of this is a comedy movie. Train spotting.
It's a comedy with a dead baby. Yeah.
So comedy then. But this is why I was so surprised at how much I laughed.
Yeah.
During this viewing, because I'd forgotten
how funny it actually was. Because to me,
what I remember most are things like the dead baby crawling on the ceiling. And it's surreal, but I don't think it's funny.
No, it's not.
It's harrowing.
It's I guess it's kind of funny in an awkward kind of laugh at a funeral way. But it's not played for laughs.
No, that scene's absolutely not played for laughs. I think if anything, the scene maybe later on where the baby's crawling across the ceiling, maybe that's played a bit more humorously. But the part where
I don't know.
Okay,
I don't know if I agree with that. I think it's like devastating.
But the part in the movie where the baby actually dies and they figure out in that scene that the the father must have been sick boy.
Yeah.
And the woman's been yelling for hours or so. thing.
Mhm.
And the answer to that scene is, well, let's do some heroin. And I think that is the essence of this movie, isn't it? Basically, is you're in that situation. How are we going to get through this really difficult period?
Well,
let's do some heroin about

(13:19):
that's going to make me feel good. Let's do that.
And I think that's um
it's depressing, but also that scene is obviously very depressing, but I think feel like the movie is very funny as well. It's a very interesting movie
and it's zippy. It's I I had no idea it was only an hour and a half cuz they they pack in so much.
They pack in the sequel is longer than the original movie and you feel it. You do. I do like that second movie. I think it's very good,
but the first one is so um paced so well. It zips along.
It's weird to say, but for a film where a lot of people are injecting introvenous drugs and like sparking out, it's very energetic.
Yeah. Yeah, you're right.
It but has that energy of youth.
Yeah. They stand It's that theme again, isn't it? It's it's all it's a very well-crafted film from whatever angle you look at it. It's funny. It's it's thoughtprovoking.
It's about a certain era in British culture.
Well, the editing is quite frenetic in places,
which certainly helps.
Yeah.
Um, and I think they really did stretch that budget.
Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Oh, well, even with the music, like you say, with the music, they got all of that for all that money. And
I was going to say it's the just the 1.5 million in include the soundtrack
or is that genuinely generally a se a separate budget?
I would imagine it's the same.
Wow.

(13:40):
Oh, in that case that's
Yeah.
nuts.
Yeah,
that's incredible.
Yeah.
And the the kind of I was going to say pioneering. Do we want to go that far? But some of the more experimental stuff that Danny Bole does,
I think it's pioneering.
Yeah. Okay.
I think you can question that. I think that's
I think I think as a director he is. Yeah. Um Speaking of which, have you seen the the photos of um the the iPhone rig that he's set up for 28 years later?
No.
Oh my god, it's it's incredible. I I can't wait to see this movie. And I'm going to be the loser that's sat there trying to figure out which one was shot this way, which uh scenes were shot this way. But yeah, it's a huge sort of rig that surrounds the the performer
with just a row of like 50 iPhones,
right?
Just capturing different angles.
Bullet time.
It looks nuts.
Yeah. I wonder if it's the same um DP as T2 because they they spoke about I watched the behind the scenes thing where Johnny Lee Miller, Danny Bole, uh Robert Carlilele, and you McGregor and a carbal cutout of you and Brenner was sitting around talking and um Johnny Lee Miller was sort of talking about a rig that they had used on T2 and it was really like a well-made um bespoke item and he went to take a photograph of it and the guy was like, "Can you not please because I've made this especially for this film and I don't want people copying it." So I wonder if it's the same
gatekeeping.
Yeah. I wonder if it's the same the same guy.

(14:01):
Oh, maybe
it could be. It could be because he is a mentioned before Danny Boy was one of the great collaborators and he does sort of work with people again and again.
So what you're saying is that northerners are the coolest.
Yeah, sure. And on that note,
I'll take it. I'll take it.
Do you know why it's called train spotting?
Because of the hobby train spotting, isn't it?
But what's the connection? I know what train spotting is.
Have you got an answer for me here? Or do you want me to just give you my opinion?
I want your opinion.
Well, my opinion is that it's a very British pastime. Okay.
Spotting trains.
Yeah.
Uh it's a bit it's very unique to England, I think. I don't think they have it anywhere else in the world. It's a weird thing that we do. It's very much steeped in our culture, in British pastimes, and I feel like that's what this movie is. And that's my answer.
Okay. So, I think um I think you're sort of half right there. Yes, it is quintessentially British. I can't imagine any other countries being sad enough.
And I say this as somebody whose dad is a bit of a train spotter. He sits and watches train Journey DVDs.
Oh lord.
Just like as if he's on the train.
Okay.
It's wild. Um
if it floats your boat.

(14:22):
Yeah, precisely heroin is it.
This is not harming anyone. Yeah, exactly. But um but yeah, so I believe that the title is sort of supposed to refer to
a hobby that from the outside doesn't make a lot of sense,
but it makes perfect sense to the participants.
Yeah.
Like if you're in it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I like that. That makes sense.
Um also There's a little branch to that point. Oasis was supposed to have a song on the soundtrack.
Okay.
But they said no because they thought it was out about actual train spotting.
Oh, that tells you everything you need to know, really, doesn't it?
Yeah, they were too cool for that movie.
Right. Okay. Yeah.
Um, ironically, Train Spotting is now one of Liam Gallagher's favorite movies.
Of course it is. It's that and um Stuart Little.
Stuart Little.
It's another favorite movie I've heard.
Is it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, is there any Anything else that you want to talk about before we move on to next week? What we're doing next week?
I think the only thing I want to talk about is that um I was today years old. I don't think anybody uses that phrase anymore. That's like a cringe millennial thing to say now.

(14:43):
Oh, who cares?
But I was today years old when I found out that after this movie, the se one of the reasons the sequel took such a long time to come to fruition is because Danny Bole and you McGregor had a bit of a feud.
Yeah. Yeah. Do you know how the feud started?
I We saw an interview that seemed to suggest um you McGregor was like not formally but informally promised the the lead role in the beach.
Yeah.
And was upset when it went to Leo.
Yeah, that's what I heard.
Yeah. Okay.
Yeah.
So, if we've both come across that information in different places, it's probably true.
Yeah, I think that's right. And it took them forever. They just they didn't speak for years.
Yeah. At least a decade, I read.
Yeah. And T2 brought them back to together and it was it was weird because they sort of sit around and it feels like they were just always been mates and the way that they speak about the the both movies and
it's I don't know it's sort of sad that they went all that time without speaking about something so stupid as well like
you and McGregor do you want to be have you not got enough you and McGregor I suppose like
Obi-Wan
if you're going to be replaced by someone could be could do worse than being replaced by Leonardo DiCaprio I guess.
Mhm.
Yeah. Yeah. He was Obi-Wan Ko wasn't he?
Yeah, he's done more Obi-Wan Wenobi than any other actor in history.
Weird a weird thing to say.

(15:04):
He's too busy gallivanting off on his motorbike these days anyway.
Yeah, he's going a long way around, isn't he?
Yeah.
But yeah, I did I did find that
quite strange cuz they worked together
quite a few times in quick succession, didn't they? With Shallow Grave,
Life Less Order,
this and A Life Less Ordinary. Yeah. In the span of three years,
three, four years, a Life Less Ordinary just never gets brought up by anyone.
I never hear anyone talking about it. I remember watching it at the time when it came out and I really liked it.
Me too.
And apparently people don't like it very much, but that's news to me.
I haven't seen it in a long time, but I remember thinking it was pretty good.
I really enjoy Dero Lindo's in there, I believe.
And Holly Holly Hunter.
Holly Hunter is excellent as well. They're they're kind of the angel assassins, I think, aren't they?
I believe so. Yeah.
It's got Cameron Diaz in it. Like, what is not to like?
Like, it's a weird movie, but I remember it being great. We should watch that now.
I really I've wanted to watch it for ages and you got the disc out and we lost the disc somehow. But I'm up for watching it.
Okay, I'll try and find it. But yeah, that's about all I have to say on Train Spotting. I think it was I think it was maybe important to start with this one because as you say, it is one of the quintessential drugs movies,

(15:25):
I think. So, but it's about so much more as well. And I think it's
it was I think it's a good one to start with because it's it's it has its bleak moments, but it's also quite funny. So, it's it's nice to not go straight out the gate with That was my whole time.
Yeah, that was my thinking. I didn't want to drop you right in at the deep end. Okay.
And although the baby doesn't fare very well, at least the kitten survived.
Well, yeah. I mean, it was a long time ago now, so it's kittens not alive anymore.
I really hate it when you do that. Every film we watch with an animal in, you're just going dead now for
30 years.
I hate it. I don't like that at all. Anyway, yeah. So, that's that's Train Spot and it's our first Danny Bole movie. Danny Boyer movie will not be our last.
No, I knew you were going to say that. Yeah,
there's a few other Danny Boyer movies that I want to get to at some point. I will get to Steve Jobs and try to convince you of it that film's greatness.
Okay.
Um or at least express to you what I love about it so much because it's probably important for me to just figure that out anyway. But
fine.
Episode one then done. Uh one of eight. What's two of eight? What we doing next week then?
Two of eight is a bit of an outlier because it's um not a real drug.
Okay. Okay.
So,
doesn't have to be.
No, it doesn't. We're covering uh Synchronic.
Okay.
Get to talk a little bit about um Justin Benson and Aaron Morhead.

(15:46):
Interesting. Our first Morehead and Benson joint.
Yeah.
Okay. Chad joint. Yeah. Um Okay. We I've seen that movie.
We've seen
We've both only seen it once, but I'm quite keen to revisit cuz um
good cast.
Yeah.
Interesting film. Not quite what I expected the first time around, but I do admire them as filmmakers. Bizarre bizarre movie and it's on Prime, isn't it? To stream, I believe. And that free one.
Yeah.
So, yeah. Looking forward to that.
All right. Tune in then next week. Synchronic.