September 22, 2025 • 64 mins
We’re back for the 3rd instalment of the season, diving into the often cursed realm of video game movies. This week, we’re dissecting the very recent movie adaptation of the cult classic interactive horror game, Until Dawn (2025).
Will this adaptation keep you awake Until Dawn, or will you be begging for bedtime? The film, directed by David F. Sandberg (Lights Out, Annabelle Creation, Shazam) takes a bold swing, opting for a time-loop mechanic, a decision considered a departure from the game and a choice Sarah has opinions about.
What to expect from this episode:
- Sarah’s spoiler-filled comparison of the film to the beloved Until Dawn game.
- Our thoughts on David F. Sandberg’s vision and creative flair.
- Critiques of the film’s time-loop mechanic.
- Why the characters felt as distinct as different shades of beige.
- Praise for the practical effects.
- Discussion on missed opportunities.
- A look at where Until Dawn (2025) ranks among other horror movie and computer game adaptations.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to Shoot a Hostage with me, Dan, and my partner, Sarah. We're a movie podcast who talks about a different film each week based on a theme. We do swear and we do spoil the featured movie. So, only ever listen if you've seen the film or you don't care too much about spoilers. If you're a regular listener, you can just skip forward until you hear the intro music cuz you've heard all of this before. But if you are new to the show and you do enjoy what you hear, there are a couple of things you can do to help support the show. Firstly, make sure that you're subscribed on your podcast. player so you get notified when new shows drop on Mondays. Uh you could rate us five stars on Spotify, which couldn't be easier. You just hit the star icon below the show's artwork. Or if you have a spare few minutes, we'd love it if you could submit a review wherever you listen. Uh make sure you come follow us at swth_pod on social media. We are active on Instagram, threads, and Tik Tok. And lastly, the biggest thing you can do to help is tell a friend about the show. So that's about it. That's enough preamble from me. Uh over to me and Sarah for this week's episode. Sarah, a rare brand new movie for us today.
(00:01):
Is this the newest film that we've covered to date? Yes. Well, it came out this year, 2025. We've never covered a movie on the main feed that came out the year that that season has come out. Have I screwed up this whole thing already?
No.
No. f*** it. It's staying in. Whatever.
Brand new movie, Until Dawn.
It's a video game movie, Sarah.
Yep.
Came out just a few short months ago.
Without much fuss at all, it quietly came. It quietly went.
Yes. Not quietly enough.
Not quietly enough. Okay.
I did not love this.
Okay. Interesting. Interesting. We'll get into all of that. Um, it's based on a game.
Mhm.
Which we said you have played the game and we'll talk a little bit about the how the film compares to the game and the mechanics of each, but uh when did you play the game and under what circumstances? Is it a solo situation game? Was it a team team sports?
It was um I the first time I ever played. This was I think in 2016 or 2017 with my old podcast co-host Phil.
He brought his entire PlayStation around to my house cuz it was a PlayStation only game.
Yeah.
Um and we went through the whole thing over several nights.
Really?
Yeah. Okay.
Cuz it's about a 10-hour game, I think,
(00:22):
if I remember rightly. It's in chapters
and I feel like each one is roughly about an hour.
And you really enjoyed it. You you liked the game so much that we procured it on
my PlayStation for my PlayStation. And we played it for about 20 minutes.
We played it for almost 2 hours.
Oh, did we?
I played it for almost 2 hours while you sat there. You played a bit.
Okay.
But you weren't massively sold.
No. The problem with games like that is that they don't have cars in,
right?
And I can't drive anything.
No.
And that's a problem for me when it comes to games. Fair enough. Um, one thing I would like to say up top before we get too entrenched in this uh in this episode
is it's not we we obviously always give the disclaimer of we are going to spoil the movie that we're reviewing.
I think it's also important this time to say we're also going to spoil the game.
Fair.
Because obviously the the couple that we've done so far, Resident Evil and Warcraft, we don't really we didn't, you know, we don't need to talk about what happens in the games as far as story beats. Whereas this one, I think we do sort of have to talk about it to compare and contrast.
I agree. I totally agree. So, yeah, thanks for clearing that up at the beginning cuz I totally forgotten about that.
Were you excited for the film?
Vaguely. Yeah, I was.
(00:43):
It was announced in January 2024.
Yeah.
And it was shot between August and October of the same year. Shot in Budapest.
Mhm.
And came out, I think, in May. of 2025 of this year.
Yeah.
Uh budget was $15 million.
Was it really? Okay.
Extraordinarily low.
Yeah. I mean, obviously the people in it are definitely not names by any chance apart from Peter Storm.
Yeah.
I don't know. It see one of my criticisms of this film is I don't think it looked particularly great, but it had some excellent effects work.
Yeah, agreed.
So, it wouldn't surprise surprise me if that's where a lot of the budget went.
I think so. Okay.
I think I think you're right. I'll I I'll come back to the practical effects maybe a bit bit later
but um yeah so budget was 15 million and it grossed 54 million
which is good like it did I don't remember this really getting much advertising over here.
No it didn't I remember hearing they were making a film and then I think it I think it was when I was programming the season or something. I was like oh and I found this and I was like Oh, I didn't even know that that had come out. So, it sort of came and went, but 54 million, I think, is a good return for that.
That's respectable for a 15 million,
I think. So, directed by David F. Samberg.
(01:04):
Yes.
Who is a bit of a horror legend? Not a leg. Legends may be not a legend. He's sort of becoming like one of those,
oh, we need somebody to direct this horror property. Who can we get?
That guy.
Yeah. Wait, he's got a YouTube channel, which I've been subscribed to for years at this point. Have you really? Pony Smasher. Yeah.
What does he post?
Uh short films. All of his short like Lights Out and
Lights Out was the first thing I ever saw. In fact, I think that might be the only one of his shorts I've seen.
Yeah, I've seen a couple of them. There was one in a in a cupboard. That was interesting. I can't remember what that was called, but it was it was good. He posts a lot of behind thescenes stuff.
Okay.
There was a lot of uh in the earlier days about his animation, how he works, how he got into that. A lot of behind the scenes stuff when he's making his short films about how he made his own dolly track from like plumbing materials and that sort of thing. Like really really super interesting
YouTube channel.
Is it he's Swedish, isn't he?
I think so.
Yeah. Same as Peter Storm.
Oh,
in fact,
Lights Out, I think, got a lot of buzz.
Mhm.
And then they gave him the keys to making a a full featurelength version of Lights Out. And as
which was a mistake,
(01:25):
which was I I Great. I I really like the short, but the film was a bit um
nothing.
Yeah, it had that one idea and didn't really do anything else if I remember if I remember rightly.
Mhm.
Annabelle Creation.
Haven't seen it.
Which is a prequel to the I'm a a horror doll now.
Is that what it's called in your mind? Honey, I'm a haunted doll.
I thought you was going to say, "Honey, I'm a horny doll."
No, that would be infinitely weirder.
That's a different movie.
Yeah. need some ID to look at.
There's almost certainly an Annabelle parody and I do not want to know about it.
Yeah. No. Uh he also directed Shazam.
Oh yeah. I always forget that.
Unfortunately Shazam too. But yeah.
Oh, he did the sequel as well.
Yes. Oh no.
But I always say with these directors when you're making a big temple movie like that.
Whatever the outcome. Yeah. It's not really
I I enjoyed the first Shazam movie, but that second one was rough. Rough.
(01:46):
Yeah. Um,
rough.
Keep saying rough.
I didn't even hate it as much as you did.
Dog.
I didn't think it was the worst, but I This This is something that ruins a lot of movies for me. I know too much about Zachary Levi, and he seems like a total prick.
Yes, he does.
And that unfortunately colors my view of his roles.
Yeah, agreed.
People just need to be quiet,
especially quiet. lives.
If your name is Zachary Levy, I think you especially need to be quiet.
Yeah.
Clear that up. Yeah.
In fact,
silent would be ideal. Yeah.
Go away. You've probably got enough We love You all love Chuck money. Is that what that show was called?
It was just called Chuck.
Oh, was it okay? Um, you probably got loads of money from that. You don't need to be a big old superhero boy, do you? Cry about not being in four anymore. Oh, no. I'll be a prick.
But he needs all of his uh vast wealth to to um I don't know, donate spread misinformation
to spread misinformation, donate to churches that probably don't need it and
(02:07):
be best mates with Chris Pratt
and Yeah. And be in movies that are offensive to the disabled community.
Just what a guy.
What a stand up guy.
Good dude.
Who's your favorite actor? Zachary Levi.
That person's going into a river. Who's your favorite actor? Zachary Levi said nobody ever.
No one's ever said that, have they?
No.
I reckon maybe one person has said it and their name is
And it's his mom.
It's your mom, Zachary Levi.
Um, speaking of actors, there are actors in this movie.
Yes.
That was a clever link, wasn't it?
It was great. Yeah.
I wasn't familiar with any of them apart from, as you said, Peter Storm and uh, is it Odessa? Azion.
Azion, I believe. So, that's how I've heard other people say it,
right?
I love her.
Okay.
(02:28):
And I don't know why. I've seen her in a bunch of stuff. Um, a quite a few horror projects actually. Obviously, she was in the the kind of I don't even know what to call it. The Hellraiser reboot that divided opinion.
Um, I don't even know. Is divided opinion even the right way to say it? I feel like we're so in the minority and that we really enjoyed that movie. movie, we seem to be drowned out by people that hated it.
I don't understand. I I I really really liked it.
I dug it.
Yeah,
I thought it was great. But yeah, I find her very um watchable.
I I don't know how much range she's got, but I find her I don't know. You know, some you see some people on screen and they're just kind of like magnetic. Yeah.
In some way. I think she's got that.
So, I hope she has a bigger career.
Yeah. She's very She's quite unique looking. Like
I think that's a part of it.
Like uh when she popped up in this movie, I sort of recognized her and I think you nudged me and went, "Oh, it's she's in Hellraiser. That's it. That's what I know her from. I don't think I know her from anything else."
She was in a film called The Inhabitant, but I think I watched that without you. It was a weird
without me. You watched a movie without me?
I do that quite a lot.
You're just telling me this now. You
I'm sorry. You hiding that from me, Sarah?
I concealed it. Yeah.
Oh, no. Sorry.
Get therapy. Peter Stormir, we need you as a therapist.
Um, yeah, that was that was okay. It's like a weird sort of Lizzy Bordon horror movie.
(02:49):
Um, but yeah, I mean, besides her, is there anybody else in the cast worth talking about? None of them were really like standouts to me.
I didn't recognize anybody. And the problem, I think, is a big problem with this is the characters. I think there are there's a couple of things wrong with this movie that I that that stopped me from enjoying it fully. I didn't hate it. I didn't love it. But the characters um was a lot of the things Yeah. the script, the dialogue, the the words that were coming out of these characters' mouths. Some of it was just bad. Like plain bad.
So it's difficult to assess the performances I think for me anyway because cuz where The dialogue's not great. What chance have you got? I don't know. Like like Dairo is not going to make this project look good, you know?
So, it's tricky. But I didn't recognize anyone. And I didn't particularly like many of the characters very much. I don't know if that's intentional or not cuz obviously in horror films a lot of the time you're meant to want for some people to die, but I don't know really what the intentions were for these characters.
Ordinarily, I would say yes. But I think because of this film's format, And the fact that we obviously I'm getting a bit ahead of myself with this,
but the fact that it's sort of all of them or none of them will survive.
Yeah.
Like the the mechanism of the film itself sort of does away with that.
That's fair.
So I think we are supposed to like them all or at least find them a bit likable.
Yeah.
I think the only one who had any sort of distinct personality was Megan who was the Was her distinct personality psychic?
Psychic. Yeah. But she did actually like her line delivery was kind of funny in a couple of places and like she seemed like she was having fun with it
whereas the rest of them were just a bit like it was a little bit by the numbers. None of them were really standouts.
Yeah. Some I mean some of the the some of the lines in it I I don't know. I felt like it was written that very morning.
Yeah. I know exactly what you mean. They just wrote it as they went along. That water wall thing that's in the beginning. Oh, what? Like I hated
I think I wrote that. Yeah,
I hated it.
Oh, that famous Oasis song. Water wall.
Who who decided that joke past must have? That's terrible.
Yeah,
(03:10):
but yeah, I think it's funny because I've seen in a few places this get um compared to Cabin in the Woods.
I was going to bring this up. Yeah,
which I find really interesting because at the part of Cabin in the Woods. Each of the characters obviously as a plot point resembles a horror movie trope.
Yeah.
And so it's funny that this gets compared to it because all of these people could be the same character
on paper.
They're not very distinct, are they? No,
you're right.
No. And I'm not saying I'm not saying they should fall into like the horror movie stereotypes.
No,
because I feel like we're a bit past that. We've we've pasted that. We've parroed it to oblivion. Yeah,
but at least give them some sort of distinction.
You're not given much for these characters, and that's that's a big problem, I think. Like, I I want to be either rooting for them or wanting them to them to die horrifically. And I didn't really have either of those responses. I was just sort of watching it going, "Oh, okay. They've exploded now."
Like, in my head, it was just psychic, missing sister, psychology student, and the other two.
Yeah,
that was it.
Oh, did someone have a missing sister.
Yeah.
Oh, I think they mentioned that toce or twice. Yeah. Yeah.
It's It's interesting. So, the It's a relative cast of unknowns in the movie.
Mhm.
(03:31):
The game had quite a few names. It did
in the cast. It did.
It's funny. The game had more star power than the movie.
Yeah.
Cuz the game also had Peter Storm.
It did as Dr. Hill, but a different Doctor Hill.
Okay.
Obviously, I've already said it. I'm going to spoil what happens in the game, but the Doctor Hill that he is in the movie could not be the same Dr. Hill that he is in the game
for various reasons.
Well, he's working multiple jobs. He's working at that petrol station
ever since the mine closed down because it
the Glor the Glor mine.
Yeah. Glor Valley.
So, what you're saying is that they were mining in this town called Glor and a massive hole formed.
Yeah.
So, it was a glor hole.
Don't Don't I hate that. any excuse to get the phrase uh g********* into a podcast and I'm going to take it. I I don't care who you are. I'm going to do it.
Fair enough.
The the Yeah, the game had um Hayden Panitier, Ramy Malik,
um others, some other people.
Some other people, but like big names. Maybe Remy Malik wasn't the name. This is pre um pre-bo rapy Malik,
(03:52):
but post heroes Hayden Panaceier.
Wasn't it post Mr. Robot though? probably
or maybe at the same time as
yeah maybe I mean this game was out in 2015 right so it's probably a couple of years development two three years in development so most likely before
Mr. Robot I would say
okay
so sticking with the game then obviously the game is a certain has a certain game mechanic the film is a film it's an adaptation of a game it can't be exactly the same and there are differences with the narrative
there are massive differences yeah
massive differences and Do you have a problem with that? I guess is my first question.
Yes. I'm going to out myself as one of those guys.
It wasn't exactly the same as the game.
Yeah, they changed it. I don't like it.
Yeah, I'm I'm sorry. I'm going to be that guy. Um I didn't expect like a scene for scene because what would be the point? So, it's interesting to note that David F. Samberg did actually say this is a story that takes place in the same universe as the Until Dawn game.
Oh, did he?
So, he's not ne necessarily calling it a remake of the game or even an adaptation.
Okay,
so that's important to point out, I think.
Okay,
so the game succeeded because it was basically an interactive 10-hour horror movie in like a choose your own adventure format.
Like there were different points at which you could make decisions on behalf of the characters. Like you it switches POV. You are you play as various different characters. throughout.
Do you want to help this person or would you like to run away?
(04:13):
Do you want to befriend the dog? Might come in handy later.
But they don't tell you that bit surely.
A tip. Befriend the dog. Um, no. They don't tell you that obviously. You just But that that's the best part about the game.
Yeah.
Is that it sort of has this autosave function, which means
if you make what you deem to be an incorrect decision and one of the characters dies, you can't just respawn from like the last save point. And that's what made the game great. You have to just sit with your decisions
and suffer the consequences
and the rest of it just plays out.
Yeah. If people die, they remain dead. You move on to different characters.
Um there isn't even really an aim.
Like I I guess the most normal way to play it would be to try and make choices that you think will keep the characters alive. But I don't think the game suffers from making the wrong choices, quote unquote. Um, if people die, you still continue playing. And there are at least three different outcomes for the final act that I know of.
I did find an article that said
there are potentially sort of hundreds of minute ways in which it changes, but there's like three main outcomes, I think. And so, it's really curious to me that they then decided to make the movie the antithesis of that.
I find it so strange and that's the thing that I can't get past because like I said making a snap decision cuz a lot of the time you aren't given very long like it's a it's on a timer. You have to make a decision quickly and live with the consequences of it. Whereas in this they're stuck in a time loop and it keeps resetting which is so antithetical to what Until Dawn was. So that's my biggest sticking point.
Yeah, I I hear what you're saying given that the mechanics of the game are a certain way. You make decisions and you have to sit with those decisions and the game plays out as per the consequences of those decisions.
Yeah. I mean it was predicated on the whole butterfly effect theme. Like
that's what I like to call it, the butterfly effect. Yeah. Do you?
I coined that too.
Did you? Does Ashton Kutcher know about that?
Uh no, I coined I went back in time and coined it um years and years ago. Oh, I see.
And then people like suddenly it caught on.
(04:34):
Mhm.
And now everyone calls it the butterfly effect, but only cuz I went back in time.
Right. I see. Yeah.
Yeah. So the the film the film is doing, as you say, it's sort of the opposite thing, isn't it? Because it's
like onto one time because the one thing you can't do is reset.
Yeah. And the I guess when you when you see a time loop movie, I guess they they they already feel like computer games in a way. your Palm Springs, your Groundhog Days, your Happy Death Day, which is a comparison to this movie.
Um, like there the there's already an element of you're learning from your decisions and you can go back and sort of redo it, but you don't have that in the game. So, it is interesting that they decided to go completely the opposite route. But then, how do you short of making this a choose your own adventure style bander snatch type deal, how do you how do you adapt it.
Honestly, I don't know. I don't have a good answer to that.
You just make it a regular movie, I guess.
Yeah. I think there are so many possibilities. Um, specifically cuz Samberg kind of said it's not a direct adaptation. It's not a remake of the source material. So, he could have gone in any direction.
Yeah.
So, for them to to go with something that is effectively the inverse of the games makes little to no sense. Although it's it's important to mention he didn't write the film.
No. No, he didn't.
We are sort of I'm I'm lumping all the blame on him, but it's not necessarily his fault.
Yeah. Do you think that there was a lot of pressure there to because obviously the game, I'm guessing, was pretty successful.
So, I think so.
Is there pressure there to pay homage to the game? How do you do that? Do you decide to go a different way and include some Easter eggs, which I think is the way that they decided to go, I think. And it's it's it's a curious choice because when you're adapting something doesn't not it doesn't even have to just be a video game. When you're adapting anything, there's a certain built-in audience that are going to have certain expectations. So if you're not to some degree playing to those expectations, it's usually going to fail, isn't isn't it? Like I'm not saying this movie failed. Financially it did well. I think the opinion is it's fine for the most part, which is sort of where I I sort of land.
But I I found it a curious choice to sort of go, as you said, go away from the game, but then also trying to trying to pull people back in with certain Easter eggs and things. And there are a few there's even a couple that I picked up on and I
Okay.
played the game for 20 minutes.
I saw that picture of Remy Malik.
(04:55):
Oh, yeah. The fi the patient file.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which is interesting to me because a lot of people have disputed online what the timeline is because They've been told that this movie is in the same universe as the game.
And when the film ends, we do see a car pulling up to a snowy cabin, which looks a little bit like the game.
So, some people have decided that the movie's a prequel, but I don't think that lines up.
That's what I was thinking.
Unless there are multiple Peter Storm at this point, which there might be.
There might be. He got his clones. This is in a Resident Evil universe where everyone's a f****** clone.
Yeah. All right.
I've got a question for you. All right.
Mhm.
In the universe of Glor Valley.
Glor Valley. That's just another another way of saying the same thing, isn't it?
Go on. What's your question?
Why does water make you explode, Sarah?
Oh god. That's in my notes as well.
What's What's going on? I'm assuming that's lifted directly from the computer game. It
is not. No. Listen,
love the effect. I thought it looked great.
(05:16):
Same. It gave me genuine joy when the first person exploded. I was like, "Oh, okay. An unexpected thing happened."
Very good. Very good.
And the effects work was great.
Uh, but then they lent on that a little bit too hard.
Yeah.
And it started to become a bit annoying and then it sort of reemerged as a bit of a McGoffin. Yeah, you're right. You're right. It's It was um Was it Czechov's Exploding Water?
I think so. Yeah.
Yeah, I thought so. Yeah, it's a It was a weird thing. Do you know what there one of my issues with this film is that there's certain things that happen in it that I just sort of have to do a double take at.
Yeah.
Like, what?
What? And then they're like,
because depression. I'm like, oh, right. Okay. Um and it's it's weird. And that's one of them. Like, but on paper, like looking at it, just watching the thing happen, watching someone explode, Brilliant. Looked great. I watched the behind the scenes stuff which is on pony this pony smasher um YouTube channel about how they did those effects. Not too dissimilar to when we were talking about Colin Salmon getting meat cubed in Resident Evil. You make a dummy of an actor and then you blow it up.
Yeah.
Um really cool. It was the last thing that they shot so they kind of had to get it right. And the first time it wasn't perfect, so they I think they used like a blue mist when the the thing exploded. did and then they decided to use the red mist cuz that looked more like blood. Who'd have thought? Um, but it looked it looked really good. It was a really good effect that was just way way overused. I thought that was kind of the best thing in this movie as a that a lot of the effects I thought looked very good.
Mhm.
I do think that that's probably the strongest element of this movie and that was a bit of a standout. Particularly that bathroom moment when Babe just chugged down a glass of brown water and exploded. It was like, "What?"
Yeah.
Awesome.
But it didn't f****** make any sense narratively.
And it, look, I'm not a stickler for realism in these sorts of movies. It's a time loop movie. It's basically science fiction.
So, all bets are off. I don't need everything handed to me on a silver platter. But I need something.
(05:37):
Yeah.
What was it about the water? Why? Why explosions of all things?
Yeah. I think it was the witch.
You think it was the witch? Okay. Yeah. Must have been. Who else could it have been?
Um, yeah. No, you're probably right.
Could have been the ghost, I guess.
Or the weird clown mask.
Yeah, could have been the weird clown mask guy.
Okay, so this is a big departure from the game. This is when I'm going to get into some of the nitty-gritty of the the plot of the game. So, basically, uh, some of the game has been retained in that the game starts and you're at this Lodge and it's a bunch of friends who are sort of I want to say college student aged,
early 20s.
Yeah. Like a push late teens.
Um there are two twin sisters there called Hannah and Beth.
Now the group decides to play a trick on I think it's Hannah and she ends up like legging it out of the ski lodge. Her sister follows her. They see a creepy guy. They fall off a cliff. They're never Look, you you've seen all of this. This was part of the 20 minutes that you actually played.
Yeah. I was looking at my phone, I think.
Right. That's uh that tracks and and then we kind of go to a year later. So, some of that is retained because this starts with I was I was going to say what's her name, but it's Clover.
Clover. Yeah.
This starts with Clover's sister because apparently she's a horse. Clover is only an acceptable name. for a horse.
You should only be called Clover if you're horse. You heard it here on Shostage.
Exactly.
If your name's Clover and you're not a horse, suicide.
I would never suggest such a thing. No. Um but Deeppole is there for a reason.
(05:58):
Okay. Yeah, let's go with Deepole. That's the best solution.
Yeah, the more humane solution. But yeah, it opens on her sister who is obviously the one who we later learn is missing. Bursts out of the ground.
Very much the same vein as the descent too.
Yeah.
And also a little bit Evil Dead.
Yeah.
I suppose. Um
Yeah. Very Ramy.
Yeah. A little bit. And then she sort of does does the whole Oh no, don't kill me again.
Which is Yeah. If you've never played the game, kind of a an interesting hook to a to a horror movie. I get that. But This is where they sort of differ quite drastically. So in the game, Josh, who's Ramy Malik's character, turns out he was the brother of the twin sisters, they are missing, presumed dead. It's been a year. He wants to get all of his friends back to the ski lodge as like a memorial weekend or whatever. And weird s*** starts happening. And it turns out he dies. He gets killed. But does he? No.
Turns out he's faked his own death and he's the one who's been playing pranks on all of his friends to get his own back for them pranking his sisters, which is what led to their supposed deaths.
Normal reaction.
Normal
grief makes you do weird things.
It does. But look, we're not here to judge, okay?
And it turns out all of the kind of the cut scenes, I suppose, where you're talking to Peter Storm's therapist is sort of a hallucination of Josh's.
Oh, okay.
And the things like the raw shack tests that he's showing you and saying, "What do you think this looks like or what are you more afraid of or whatever?" That is sort of informed by the choices that you then make. And yeah, they they kind of go a different direction in the film. It's a lot less intriguing because there's just this masked guy who I believe is supposed to be like the standin for Josh because the mask is very similar to the one he wore in the game.
Okay.
But no, it's just this mysterious guy that's stalking them.
Yeah.
(06:19):
Which isn't explained. I guess like a I don't know, maybe a minor that died in the mine collapsed that they talk about.
Well, everything's trying to kill them, isn't it?
Yeah. Oh, literally everything. The water.
Yeah, even the water. Yeah.
So, it's just one of these weird
monster ghosties. things. You've got You got him. You got the witch. You've got the face worm. You got the exploding water. You've got the Wendigos.
The Wendigos. See, that is the other big crossover with the game. It makes it makes more sense in the game and I think it's truer to actual Wendigo lore. So, I do have some notes about this. Bear with me. Sit tight. So, in Wendigo law, um it's basically it comes from Alangquin folklore. So, So people who are native to the North Americas predominantly who are part of the Algangquin language speaking family. Um they describe wendigos as like giants with sharp claws. Sometimes they have antlers. They typically emerged in places that had long or harsh winters where food became a scarcity. And it's linked to greed slash a fear of star. starvation, but it can also manifest as like a spirit possessing somebody and turning them into a wendigo. Um, I think typically the more traditional law seems to be that people who indulge in cannibalism then turn into a wendigo whereas in in the real world you just get some sort of f***** up pron disease.
But in the movies you turn into a wendigo.
Yes.
And I think that was just dealt with so much better in the game because it turns out that one of the girls, I believe it's Hannah, basically had to resort to cannibalism. She ate Beth and because she'd eaten the flesh of a human being, that's what turned her into a wendigo. And you sort of, you don't find that out. You just see these monsters who are terrifying in the game, by the way. And you only realize when you see, I think it's a butterfly tattoo, and that's when you sort of put two and two together. But it's such a good reveal in the games. because there are there's the additional threat of like some guy walking around outside with what looks like a flamethrower. Um, which by the way was Larry Fessendon who co-wrote the game and doesn't get a credit here which makes me sad. He's Wendigo obsessed that man. So there are sort of multiple threats or things that are deemed to be threats in the game
but they really do just want to chuck in everything but the kitchen sink in the film.
Well, I that. But my problem was that there wasn't enough. I thought that there should have been more monsters. Like we we had the mask killer, we had the water, we had the face like but really it was just a mask killer and saw the Wendy goes
like they promised a witch but you had the witch for one scene and it f***** off.
All she did was like put a gas mask over one of the characters and like knock knocked somebody out.
Yeah. And then she f**** off and then that's it. Never never to be seen again. Yeah.
Um, night four was apparently supposed to be werewolves.
Oh,
did is it are werewolves any part of the game?
No.
But I feel like that's what this was missing this film. And the the easiest comparison something you mentioned earlier, Catherine in the woods.
Yeah.
(06:40):
That is so successful because it leans on these archetypal characters where you can play into the tropes and the and
uh portraying the tropes is a joke in itself. So there's that entertainment factor, but then also the monsters were really cool
and you got to see all this weird s*** that you'd never seen before and this sort of pro sort of promises that and doesn't really go fully into it and I don't really blame the filmmakers for that because 15 million budget I think this is probably as best you can do like in terms of how it looks. Um but I just felt like there could have been more and I was really disappointed to hear that they had shot werewolf stuff.
Oh, they shot it.
They had shot it. It was included in the movie. It didn't test well so they moved it. Apparently, I missed this in a film, but apparently, you know, the um hourglass
that motif, you keep getting um cutaway shots to that every time the night changes. And apparently on night four, in the middle of the hourglass, there's a moon
and that's still in the film.
Um but yeah, it's curious that they didn't choose to include that. It must have been They said it didn't test well. I don't know what that means and depends on the audience you've got at the time, I guess, but on paper I want to see that, please. I'd like to see that.
In theory, that does sound interesting.
Yeah.
And again, I guess that sort of speaks to one of my other big frustrations with the film is that there's so much untapped potential
because I think one of my favorite moments is I can't remember which night it is, but they sort of realize that they've been getting increasingly forgetful and it turns out that they they think they've got about 13 tries to get this thing right before they turn into Wendigos. And Jesus, there's a lot. Like hearing myself say it, there is a lot going on in this film actually.
Yeah.
But then we get that point where they they wake up and they're all like, "Oh god, what what day are we on?" And then they realize that somebody's been filming each night that they've forgotten on their phone. And the footage that we see on the phone is some of the best in the film or some of the scariest, some of the freakiest stuff,
but it It's so brief and there's just not enough of it. I wish that had been explored a little bit more.
I agree. I think if I had to guess, I would say that that stuff feels like re-shoots to me,
right?
And we've got something here, but there's not enough. Let's put another couple of uh water explosions in there. Let's let's do two days and get who we can from the cast back in a warehouse and strap someone to chair and put face worms on them. I reckon that's what it is. But yeah, I agree. Like some of that stuff was really cool. I really liked the face worm. That was maybe my second favorite thing. Just a layer of of skin over the actor and then a little a little rubber worm thing poking out that was being controlled by air.
By air?
Yeah. They pump it.
Oh,
(07:01):
not in that way.
Yeah. I It didn't occur to me that that could be re-shoots.
Um but you Yeah, you might be right. You might be right, but I think there's some really interesting stuff there and I just I'm sad that that didn't get explored a little bit better. And also it featured one of my least favorite things and that is that it it worked in things like early fan footage. They got away with it but you know when you're seeing a video on a phone in a film and then that it starts like artifacting and glitching and you get the lines and I'm just like it wouldn't be corrupted. The file would not be corrupted in that way. It really annoys me.
I think the phone is haunted by
Yeah. Maybe
the ghost witch.
Maybe
of the cabin.
Okay.
Yeah.
The glor witch.
The glor witch.
Yeah. All right. Did you know that this is sort of part of a wider universe?
Well, the game at least. So, the game we haven't even The game was put out by Super Massive Games. I think they partnered with Sony originally for for the first Until Dawn and it was a PlayStation exclusive. I know they've done a lot of stuff since which is also available on Xbox as well. But there was I got so excited. There was there was a an announcement that there was going to be an Until Dawn sequel and me and Phil were so hyped and then it got closer to the date and it was like, "Oh, it's a VR game." Immediately excited.
Yeah.
They're like, "Oh, it's it's kind of like an on the rails thing that's got absolutely nothing to do with Until Dawn except we're just using the name." Yeah. It really annoyed me.
And it's last for 12 minutes.
It was s***.
Oh, you played it?
Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. Didn't enjoy it
at all. And
(07:22):
I wasn't aware of that. What else?
Yeah. Well, there was another game as well, which I think was also for VR called The Inatient, which again was in the Until Dawn universe, but I didn't play that one. Um, and in fact only found out it existed quite recently.
But yeah, they um they went on to do um what they called the Dark Pictures Anthology and apparently they're aiming for there to be eight games in total. But so far they've done Man of Madan, Little Hope, House of Ashes, and the Devil in Me, which do seem to be at least the Man of Madan. I did download that. I haven't played it yet, but they do seem to be roughly the same sort of format. uh in that it being kind of like a choose your own adventure thing where you um I I guess the best way to describe the games is that they're almost intended for like group activities.
Oh, would you say?
Yeah, like if you have um like a gaming party and a bunch of you come around and get snacks and have drinks and stuff and take turns, I I could see that being fun.
Yeah. Have a land party.
Sure. Um and then of course there is the quarry which I think I think is the most recent one, which is 2022, um that they've called a spiritual successor to Until Dawn, but it's not strictly speaking in the same universe as I'm quite keen to play that one.
Yeah, you should definitely. I had no idea that the world was so expansive. I'd never even heard of the game until you mentioned it to me when we uh when we played it that time,
which surprises me because you're a PlayStation guy and I'm an Xbox person. So, if one of us were to have heard of it. You'd think it'd be you.
Yeah, but I play one game.
That's true. Yes. Unless it's Gran Turismo, you're not interested.
Robocop game.
Spider-Man or Robocop. Yeah.
Yeah. And you did buy Hell Divers and then didn't play it.
Yeah, cuz I couldn't figure out how to get off the ship.
I got annoyed.
You raged quit after 10 minutes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it looks good though. I just watched videos on TikTok. It was cool.
Yeah. Just watch Starship Troopers again.
(07:43):
Yeah, I will. After having seen this film, do you have any more desire to revisit the game?
No.
No. Still no.
No. Cuz the thing is with the game is that those sorts of games are not really my jam. Because for me, I'll just watch a film. I I watch a film and then I don't have to have a controller in my hands and click the things. And also, when I do play storybased games, I'm never watching the cut scenes. I'm always skipping them
cuz I just want to play the game. For me, I want to play a game, not watch a movie. And for me, this is kind of the worst elements of both those things.
That's so funny because I I'm I'm like kind of with you in theory.
I'm also of the opinion that if I want to watch a film, I'll watch a film. And if I want to play a game, I'll play a game. However, I think this I think until Dawn, the game is the best of both of those things
rather than it being the worst.
Yeah.
So, we have very different opinions on that.
I just And also like I just don't I'm not very invested in it. So like when it presents me um with a decision,
I tend to go for whatever the stupidest decision is just for fun, just to make it exciting.
But you but but the best part about that is that you you still can't you can't lose.
Yeah.
Um as you would in like more standard game play. You can make you can absolutely make the stupid decision every time and continue playing.
Yeah.
I don't know. Maybe it gets more interesting.
I don't know. But then I've got to watch all the videos. stuff and I'll just be like, "Well, I'll go on my phone while this is on." But then that's the point of it, isn't it? It's the story.
Yeah.
And I'm not interested in watching a cutscene story on a in a computer game. Not at all.
That's fair. But I find the story in the game much more intriguing than the story in the film.
(08:04):
Than the story in the film.
Even despite the overlaps, I think. I don't know.
In the game, is there a town called Galore that does too much mining and sinks?
Well, there is. Um, there is some gameplay in a mine. It's been a few years, so I don't remember the specifics, but yeah, that the the mine elements are definitely taken from the games.
Okay. And what did you think of the Cuz we get we get a an explanation, do we about all this why this weird s*** is going on from Peter Storm, who's not a therapist in this. He's just a scientist.
I don't really know.
Human behavioral scientist, also known as therapist. I don't
I don't know. Just just creepy guy.
Yeah. But he he sort of offers explanation about this town suffered a tragedy in 1998 caused loads of grief. Everyone was really upset and then that made everyone all hell come through this hole.
Something like that. Yeah.
Yeah. And that's really it, isn't it? That's cuz it got to that point in the film and he said that and I'm thinking, "Oh, okay. That's why all all of this is happening is it?" And felt a bit um shortchanged really. cuz it it was a bit frustrating. It could have been interesting. I think there's a a version of this movie that's really cool.
Yeah, I agree.
And I didn't have a problem with the time loop stuff. I'm not invested in the game at all. So, the fact that it is completely opposite to that didn't I I don't care about that at all. But I did find the explanation for all of this stuff weird. And like you said earlier, you don't need everything explaining all of the time, but something that's helpful for context. um preferably part of the plot and maybe sort of helps develop character as well at the same time. That would be nice.
It felt like chunks had sort of been cut.
It did. And I wonder cuz when I saw that budget of 15 million, I thought that's insanely low.
Mhm.
And part of me wondered if maybe there were conversations about making this and then Shazam 2 came out and did really badly and flopped.
Oh, so they I think they might have slashed his budget.
Maybe. I don't know. But 15 million feels like how you would ever expect to make a really good adaptation of this horror game, popular horror survival game for 15 minutes. I don't know how you think that that's even possible. So, I think they sort of they all did their best, but I don't think there's necessarily a version of this for that value that comes out any better than this.
I don't think I agree. I I think so many of my issues are scriptbased
script dialogue
(08:25):
but all things that could be fixed with more budget. There's more time to write it. You can do we can't do another draft. We've announced a release date. We've got to go with this script cuz
Well, that's not a budgetary constraint then, is it? That's
Yeah, cuz you need to pay someone to to write the script to to to punch it up to do another version.
No, but I mean if they're saying it's already been announced, we don't have any more time.
Yeah.
That's not budget. That's marketing.
That's the the heads up top. the fact that they've got a release date puts the pressure on them to release it then. So, they're not going to factor in any time to to spruce things up to make things better.
But anyway, I think 15 million was insanely low and it just stood out to me. Like I think if you'd have doubled the budget, it would have been way better. Like even 30 million is not that much, I don't think.
And I think that there's there's certain elements you could have included. I I feel like there's a bunch of stuff that was left on the page. Maybe some of that stuff had more explanation in it, more character stuff, cuz it is the same I forget the name, but it's the same writer that wrote um it is it 2017 that that came out. It was those two movies. He wrote those two.
Uh so it's Yeah, it's weird that it's as clunky as it is and it it I don't know. I feel like it just needed more time.
It's weird that you say you feel like there was some stuff that was left on the page and I'm just like I wish there was some stuff some more stuff that had been left on the page. I think some of it shouldn't have been filmed. It's funny. I I think I'm kind of coming at this from a different direction than you because as a horror fan, I'm used to watching films with significantly lower budgets
and I think the horror genre is one of the best for showcasing doing things on a shoestring and stretching your budget and
I 100% agree.
Necessity being the mother of invention.
But but the problem is is that this film is so invested in it's all about dying 13 times. Five people dying 13 times. That's a lot of deaths you've got to cover. So, we need to make them interesting and look good. And that to do that, they did a lot of stuff practically, which I really appreciated. And it looked very good.
Apparently did quite a lot of in camera effects as well, which is
a lot of editing trickery. Super impressive.
Yeah. A lot of like whipping around and then coming back to the the the focus point and, you know, using that technique.
So, there's a lot of really clever film making techniques used and some really good use of CGI to punch up like make the gore look better. There was an element a scene where the masked killer gets his head bashed in
and they showed a version on the YouTube channel where they did the original one where they bashed his head in just practically and then they did another version where they bashed his head in practically but then
they killed the guy.
(08:46):
Yeah, they killed Yeah.
Oh my god.
But then they they made it look better in post
um with a VFX and it looked it looked amazing. Like you'd never know that it's CGI. It looked great.
And I think a lot of that is because Samberg is a very effectsdriven filmmaker. Like he's used to doing things with no budget in a cupboard in his flat in Sweden
and there's certain tricks and techniques that he's picked up and things that he uses along the way that really works. And I think someone else directing this at 15 million, if Uve B would made this movie, same movie, $15 million,
Sony would never have allowed that.
Way, way, way worse.
Yeah, of course. Of course.
Yeah.
But at the same time, do you think David F. Samberg is a a director who's got a specific sort of flare or do you think he's got a more peruntory style? Cuz I don't I didn't find the cinematography in this particularly interesting. In fact, it looked kind of dreary and boring a lot of the time. I agree. I think he's great when it comes to the the effect work and kind of thinking on his feet and figuring out which techniques to use, but I don't necessarily think he's the greatest director.
I I think he's a very good director. I like the stuff that I've seen of his, which is uh Have I seen Annabelle Creation?
I doubt it.
Probably not. If you haven't shown it to me, then I haven't seen it.
No.
But I feel like I've really enjoyed the way his movies are directed. Um I I agree. I don't think this movie looked amazing, but that's, you know, cinematography. Um but the direction of the action and how the effects play out I thought was pretty bang on. And I that's how I see him. I He's like a like a visual director for me. He's not I don't think he's one of these people that are going to be sit down, write the script, develop it, direct it. He's not a scor an ara or um people doing that sort of stuff. But he's a very good visual director, I think. And I think with the right team, he could do something quite special. Um but that's this is not until Dawn was not that special thing unfortunately.
No. I mean if it tripled its budget at the box office then he'll continue to get work in this sort of vein.
Yeah.
Which is great for him but I think his talents could be used better. He needs a better script.
He needs a better script and and I don't necessarily agree with you on that point. I don't think he's like a standout director guy. He's he's not like a just a pointandshoot Kevin Smith guy either. But I wouldn't call him like a particularly great filmmaker. I think he's got some good ideas though.
We've already mentioned Happy Death Day. We've already mentioned Cabin in the Woods as comparisons to other horror movies.
(09:07):
Mhm.
I didn't realize how many horror game adaptations there have been until I sat down on to Google today and said, "How many horror adaptations have there been to Mr. Google?" And I got an answer and there's more than I thought.
Go on.
Res. evil. We've already spoken about that obviously in episode one.
Um, Silent Hill.
Mhm. There's a new one coming out next year as well.
A new Silent Hill. Is it Silent Hill 3 or is it a reboot?
I think it's called Return to Silent Hill.
So, who knows?
Okay. I liked that first Silent Hill movie.
Yeah.
I thought it was good.
You're You're entitled to be incorrect.
Uh, Doom.
Do you remember Doom was a film that came out?
Yeah, I do.
With Dwayne Johnson.
Mhm.
And Cole Urban.
Yep.
And Dexter Fletcher.
(09:28):
Oh god.
Was he in that?
I don't remember. I don't remember a huge amount about that film. I loved the um the game that they brought out. I was going to say like a few years ago.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But um like the they redid it all.
Yeah. Doom Remastered.
And I was going to say like a few years ago. It was probably like a decade ago now.
I think one came out about 5 years ago which I bought and didn't play.
It was the one before that.
Right. Okay.
Loved it. So much fun.
I never played the Doom game as a games as a kid. I was very much aware of them,
but I would not have been allowed to play them.
That was one of the first games I got for my PlayStation. It was Wipe Out, Doom, and um eventually Tomb Raider.
Look, I was a really coddled, sensitive child. I was allowed to play lemmings on the school computer, but I got really sad whenever they got crushed. So, Doom would have just destroyed me, I think. think.
Yeah. Did Did you watch the film Doom?
Uh yeah. Oh, yeah. I did. Yeah. But I don't remember a great deal about it.
It wasn't great.
No, I do remember that.
Yeah. Um Uve B who is the video game in this whole se this whole season obviously is about video game movies and I feel like in every f****** episode Uve Bol unfortunately is going to come up because he's probably directed the most outside of Paul WS Anderson
(09:49):
and yet not one good one.
No. Um Blood Rain apparently he directed which I've never heard of until this afternoon.
Really?
Yeah. I think I've heard of the game but I didn't know that there was a film.
Oh yeah.
And I've not played the game. I don't know anything about it. I've just heard of it. That's it.
Right.
But it's vampire thing.
Mhm.
Yeah. So there's that. He he did uh House of the Is it House of the Dead?
Mhm.
Alone in the Dark.
Yep.
Like all horror games. All Uve bowl.
A very successful one. Five Nights at Freddy's.
Oh, of course. Of course, there's a sequel to that being made as well.
Six Nights at Freddy's.
Yeah, I believe so.
I We didn't go to see that. We haven't watched Five Nights at Freddy's.
No, I wasn't particularly interested because I've never played the games and to the best of my knowledge, they're more for a younger audience.
Okay.
(10:10):
So, I assumed it wouldn't be up my street.
The game is not something that I'd heard of. I'd heard the film was coming out.
You'd never heard of the game? Oh my god, it's huge. Like,
is it just walk into HMV and the merchandising is insane.
Well, you see, the problem is that I would see something like that and just not really register it. Think, "Oh, it's a cartoon or something."
Well, knowing Freddy Fazbear's name got me a point in a film quiz once, so
yeah, never seen it, never played it, but knowing things, absorbing information by photosynthesis.
Sarah, what is your specialist subject? It's Five Nights at Freddy's.
Yeah, I'm not going to be on that.
Thank you very much. university challenge anytime soon, am I?
That's mastermind.
I know that is
Sarah, what's your specialist subject? It's British quiz shows.
Eggheheads.
Egg heads. Is there an actual show called Eggheheads?
Yeah, there was. I don't know if there still is.
Uh, yeah. Um, what else we got here? Oh, Dead Rising. Do you ever do you know Do you ever watch that movie?
I have both played the games and watched the movie. zombie situation.
There's a second one. There's Dead Rising Watchtower as well.
Oh, is that the sequel?
Yes.
(10:31):
Okay. The sequel to the film.
Yeah.
So, there are two Dead Dead Rising films,
I believe. So,
is that the one where they've got like a massive stick and a saw on it?
Yeah. There's some interesting weapons.
Yeah.
It's a fun game actually.
It sounds a bit like that other one that you played that Left 4 Dead.
I love Left 4 Dead. I'm amazed there hasn't been a Left 4 Dead adaptation so far.
Expensive.
Yeah, it would need to. That's the problem, I think. Yeah. You need to take a big risk or something like that.
Yeah.
Um but yeah, I I would be well up for play watching a Left 4 Dead movie
one day, maybe.
Yeah. Um Monster Hunter. I think that's a horror game also. Paul WS Anderson.
Yeah, we watched it.
Yeah. Rubbish.
Awful.
Rubbish.
Um I'm going to end on a good one.
(10:52):
Okay.
Werewolves Within.
Oh, yeah. Remember that?
Yeah, I do. Directed by Josh Rubin.
Not bad. That movie. It was All right.
Yeah.
So, out of those ones that we've just mentioned, then where do you think Until Dawn sort of sits? It's
Oh, it's definitely one of the better films.
It's way above u B anything's ever done. Right.
Like, it's really difficult. I was asking myself this question this very afternoon. If I hadn't played Until Dawn, would my opinion of the film still be the same? And unfortunately, I think the answer answer is no. Um, because I was such a fan of the game, I came to the film with some baggage, frustratingly, which did affect my enjoyment of the film. Even with that said, I still think I would probably just give this like a two and a half.
Yeah. I mean, I'm
a two. Two and a half. I think there's some It showed some real promise. There was some nuggets of greatness in there, but it just didn't add up to a very satisfying finished product.
I think as much as we have somewhat disagreed slightly in this one, I think ultimately we're ending up in the same place because I'm also at a two and a half out of 100.
Out of 100
out of five, I'm I'm right down the middle. I thought that this was fine. I thought there's there's stuff in it that I did not like at all.
Mhm.
And there's stuff that I really really liked and it's of balanced somewhere in between those two extremes. For me, I think as a fan of films as a movie, I think this is pretty mid.
Yeah.
As a video game adaptation where 90% of them are trash,
this is in the top 10%.
Yeah. Which is so sad.
(11:13):
It's this Assassin's Creed,
Super Mario Brothers, like all top 10% movies. I thought I thought this was all right, you know? I I I
I'm glad that I included it because this was one that I was on the fence about. I nearly swapped it out a couple of times for other things.
That's always nice to do a first time watch for both of us as well.
It's nice to include something that we haven't seen. When I thought about it does, you are super familiar with the game.
So, there's that, too. I I said before that I wanted to include games for the most part, not in every movie that we're covering, but that one of us has played that one of us has some sort of experience with and can come at it from a comparison angle because that's what I've enjoyed doing in this season. You got the game, you got the film, they've adapted it. How is it different? Why is it different? And how many people are crying because it's different? How many people sobbing into their socks?
Just me this time.
Just you. Yeah. It's not like the game and I'm crying and it's upsetting.
They made it different.
Yeah.
No, I'm not. I'm not. one of those people.
No,
I I was just frustrated at the missed opportunity. I I definitely would not have wanted a playbyplay, just a a scene for scene mimicking of the game because where's the fun in that? You want some surprises, but I just didn't love some of the directions they went in.
I think it there was potential that wasn't fully exploited.
Yeah, I I will agree with that.
I'm fully frustrated by that because more budget, more monsters, some like the deaths were good.
Rewrite the characters. Give them some defining characteristics beyond he studies psychology.
Yeah. Yeah. Beyond I mean, you mentioned Megan and she was maybe one of your favorite characters by the sounds of it, but her she she just did this weird psychic thing and it kept happening and it had no bearing on the plot whatsoever. There was no it's not like she's psychic because of depression or anxiety or what other themes that they they dolloped in the third act?
Never. Have you never had like a weird friend growing up that was convinced they were psychic?
No, I I have no not growing up. No, but as a fully grown adult, yes.
Right. Well, there you go then. So, the answer is the same.
(11:34):
Um I I think because of that, we don't necessarily need a reason for it. I think she's just eccentric
and psychic.
And psychic. Yeah,
she's one of the few who thinks she's psychic and is psychic.
It just felt it felt weird to me because it wasn't anything to do with the plot. It didn't really have any effect on anything in the movie. So why was it there?
Well, because that was her defining characteristic, Dan.
Yeah. Okay, I suppose so. But we could make her a human. E, how about that?
Why don't we try that for for size next time?
Well, she was wearing butterfly jewelry, so it tied into the motifs of the game.
The butterfly effect.
Yeah.
Yeah, there were some nods. There were there were some Easter eggs, which I did apprei appreciate. I just wish they were in a better movie.
Yeah, agreed. I wish it was a bit better, but um could I recommend this movie? No, I couldn't. I couldn't. Would I if you' if you would have asked me if I'd gone to see this at the cinema
and you'd have said big fan of the game, Dan. How was the movie? Will I like it? I think I would say I can't recommend it. But you might get something out of it.
Is that would that have been accurate? Is are you glad that you've Do you feel like your time was wasted watching this or
No, I don't feel like my time was wasted. I've seen so much worse.
I know.
It was just a bit like you said mid
Yeah.
It was just a bit unmemorable. Um and I think I think we need more Wendigo media personally, but I want it to be done better.
Yeah.
(11:55):
Let's just watch antlers instead.
Have I seen that?
Yeah, that was pretty mid, too, actually.
Was it?
So, with that done, unless you've got anything else to say about Until Dawn, what are we doing next week?
Well, sticking with the theme of games, what Sarah really enjoys.
Oh,
and has has a film adapted that's probably a brilliant movie and an alltime classic, not just video game movie, but brilliant movie in general.
You're You're taking the piss, aren't you?
Next week, Sarah, we're covering, and again, a fairly recent movie, a fairly new movie, the absolute modern classic masterpiece that is Borderlands.
Oh, f***. Oh, f***. Yeah, I'd forgotten. Yeah.
Oh, crap.
This one's your fault.
Yeah. All right.
Hello and welcome to Shoot a Hostage with me, Dan, and my partner, Sarah. We're a movie podcast who talks about a different film each week based on a theme. We do swear and we do spoil the featured movie. So, only ever listen if you've seen the film or you don't care too much about spoilers. If you're a regular listener, you can just skip forward until you hear the intro music cuz you've heard all of this before. But if you are new to the show and you do enjoy what you hear, there are a couple of things you can do to help support the show. Firstly, make sure that you're subscribed on your podcast. player so you get notified when new shows drop on Mondays. Uh you could rate us five stars on Spotify, which couldn't be easier. You just hit the star icon below the show's artwork. Or if you have a spare few minutes, we'd love it if you could submit a review wherever you listen. Uh make sure you come follow us at swth_pod on social media. We are active on Instagram, threads, and Tik Tok. And lastly, the biggest thing you can do to help is tell a friend about the show. So that's about it. That's enough preamble from me. Uh over to me and Sarah for this week's episode. Sarah, a rare brand new movie for us today.
(00:01):
Is this the newest film that we've covered to date? Yes. Well, it came out this year, 2025. We've never covered a movie on the main feed that came out the year that that season has come out. Have I screwed up this whole thing already?
No.
No. f*** it. It's staying in. Whatever.
Brand new movie, Until Dawn.
It's a video game movie, Sarah.
Yep.
Came out just a few short months ago.
Without much fuss at all, it quietly came. It quietly went.
Yes. Not quietly enough.
Not quietly enough. Okay.
I did not love this.
Okay. Interesting. Interesting. We'll get into all of that. Um, it's based on a game.
Mhm.
Which we said you have played the game and we'll talk a little bit about the how the film compares to the game and the mechanics of each, but uh when did you play the game and under what circumstances? Is it a solo situation game? Was it a team team sports?
It was um I the first time I ever played. This was I think in 2016 or 2017 with my old podcast co-host Phil.
He brought his entire PlayStation around to my house cuz it was a PlayStation only game.
Yeah.
Um and we went through the whole thing over several nights.
Really?
Yeah. Okay.
Cuz it's about a 10-hour game, I think,
(00:22):
if I remember rightly. It's in chapters
and I feel like each one is roughly about an hour.
And you really enjoyed it. You you liked the game so much that we procured it on
my PlayStation for my PlayStation. And we played it for about 20 minutes.
We played it for almost 2 hours.
Oh, did we?
I played it for almost 2 hours while you sat there. You played a bit.
Okay.
But you weren't massively sold.
No. The problem with games like that is that they don't have cars in,
right?
And I can't drive anything.
No.
And that's a problem for me when it comes to games. Fair enough. Um, one thing I would like to say up top before we get too entrenched in this uh in this episode
is it's not we we obviously always give the disclaimer of we are going to spoil the movie that we're reviewing.
I think it's also important this time to say we're also going to spoil the game.
Fair.
Because obviously the the couple that we've done so far, Resident Evil and Warcraft, we don't really we didn't, you know, we don't need to talk about what happens in the games as far as story beats. Whereas this one, I think we do sort of have to talk about it to compare and contrast.
I agree. I totally agree. So, yeah, thanks for clearing that up at the beginning cuz I totally forgotten about that.
Were you excited for the film?
Vaguely. Yeah, I was.
(00:43):
It was announced in January 2024.
Yeah.
And it was shot between August and October of the same year. Shot in Budapest.
Mhm.
And came out, I think, in May. of 2025 of this year.
Yeah.
Uh budget was $15 million.
Was it really? Okay.
Extraordinarily low.
Yeah. I mean, obviously the people in it are definitely not names by any chance apart from Peter Storm.
Yeah.
I don't know. It see one of my criticisms of this film is I don't think it looked particularly great, but it had some excellent effects work.
Yeah, agreed.
So, it wouldn't surprise surprise me if that's where a lot of the budget went.
I think so. Okay.
I think I think you're right. I'll I I'll come back to the practical effects maybe a bit bit later
but um yeah so budget was 15 million and it grossed 54 million
which is good like it did I don't remember this really getting much advertising over here.
No it didn't I remember hearing they were making a film and then I think it I think it was when I was programming the season or something. I was like oh and I found this and I was like Oh, I didn't even know that that had come out. So, it sort of came and went, but 54 million, I think, is a good return for that.
That's respectable for a 15 million,
I think. So, directed by David F. Samberg.
(01:04):
Yes.
Who is a bit of a horror legend? Not a leg. Legends may be not a legend. He's sort of becoming like one of those,
oh, we need somebody to direct this horror property. Who can we get?
That guy.
Yeah. Wait, he's got a YouTube channel, which I've been subscribed to for years at this point. Have you really? Pony Smasher. Yeah.
What does he post?
Uh short films. All of his short like Lights Out and
Lights Out was the first thing I ever saw. In fact, I think that might be the only one of his shorts I've seen.
Yeah, I've seen a couple of them. There was one in a in a cupboard. That was interesting. I can't remember what that was called, but it was it was good. He posts a lot of behind thescenes stuff.
Okay.
There was a lot of uh in the earlier days about his animation, how he works, how he got into that. A lot of behind the scenes stuff when he's making his short films about how he made his own dolly track from like plumbing materials and that sort of thing. Like really really super interesting
YouTube channel.
Is it he's Swedish, isn't he?
I think so.
Yeah. Same as Peter Storm.
Oh,
in fact,
Lights Out, I think, got a lot of buzz.
Mhm.
And then they gave him the keys to making a a full featurelength version of Lights Out. And as
which was a mistake,
(01:25):
which was I I Great. I I really like the short, but the film was a bit um
nothing.
Yeah, it had that one idea and didn't really do anything else if I remember if I remember rightly.
Mhm.
Annabelle Creation.
Haven't seen it.
Which is a prequel to the I'm a a horror doll now.
Is that what it's called in your mind? Honey, I'm a haunted doll.
I thought you was going to say, "Honey, I'm a horny doll."
No, that would be infinitely weirder.
That's a different movie.
Yeah. need some ID to look at.
There's almost certainly an Annabelle parody and I do not want to know about it.
Yeah. No. Uh he also directed Shazam.
Oh yeah. I always forget that.
Unfortunately Shazam too. But yeah.
Oh, he did the sequel as well.
Yes. Oh no.
But I always say with these directors when you're making a big temple movie like that.
Whatever the outcome. Yeah. It's not really
I I enjoyed the first Shazam movie, but that second one was rough. Rough.
(01:46):
Yeah. Um,
rough.
Keep saying rough.
I didn't even hate it as much as you did.
Dog.
I didn't think it was the worst, but I This This is something that ruins a lot of movies for me. I know too much about Zachary Levi, and he seems like a total prick.
Yes, he does.
And that unfortunately colors my view of his roles.
Yeah, agreed.
People just need to be quiet,
especially quiet. lives.
If your name is Zachary Levy, I think you especially need to be quiet.
Yeah.
Clear that up. Yeah.
In fact,
silent would be ideal. Yeah.
Go away. You've probably got enough We love You all love Chuck money. Is that what that show was called?
It was just called Chuck.
Oh, was it okay? Um, you probably got loads of money from that. You don't need to be a big old superhero boy, do you? Cry about not being in four anymore. Oh, no. I'll be a prick.
But he needs all of his uh vast wealth to to um I don't know, donate spread misinformation
to spread misinformation, donate to churches that probably don't need it and
(02:07):
be best mates with Chris Pratt
and Yeah. And be in movies that are offensive to the disabled community.
Just what a guy.
What a stand up guy.
Good dude.
Who's your favorite actor? Zachary Levi.
That person's going into a river. Who's your favorite actor? Zachary Levi said nobody ever.
No one's ever said that, have they?
No.
I reckon maybe one person has said it and their name is
And it's his mom.
It's your mom, Zachary Levi.
Um, speaking of actors, there are actors in this movie.
Yes.
That was a clever link, wasn't it?
It was great. Yeah.
I wasn't familiar with any of them apart from, as you said, Peter Storm and uh, is it Odessa? Azion.
Azion, I believe. So, that's how I've heard other people say it,
right?
I love her.
Okay.
(02:28):
And I don't know why. I've seen her in a bunch of stuff. Um, a quite a few horror projects actually. Obviously, she was in the the kind of I don't even know what to call it. The Hellraiser reboot that divided opinion.
Um, I don't even know. Is divided opinion even the right way to say it? I feel like we're so in the minority and that we really enjoyed that movie. movie, we seem to be drowned out by people that hated it.
I don't understand. I I I really really liked it.
I dug it.
Yeah,
I thought it was great. But yeah, I find her very um watchable.
I I don't know how much range she's got, but I find her I don't know. You know, some you see some people on screen and they're just kind of like magnetic. Yeah.
In some way. I think she's got that.
So, I hope she has a bigger career.
Yeah. She's very She's quite unique looking. Like
I think that's a part of it.
Like uh when she popped up in this movie, I sort of recognized her and I think you nudged me and went, "Oh, it's she's in Hellraiser. That's it. That's what I know her from. I don't think I know her from anything else."
She was in a film called The Inhabitant, but I think I watched that without you. It was a weird
without me. You watched a movie without me?
I do that quite a lot.
You're just telling me this now. You
I'm sorry. You hiding that from me, Sarah?
I concealed it. Yeah.
Oh, no. Sorry.
Get therapy. Peter Stormir, we need you as a therapist.
Um, yeah, that was that was okay. It's like a weird sort of Lizzy Bordon horror movie.
(02:49):
Um, but yeah, I mean, besides her, is there anybody else in the cast worth talking about? None of them were really like standouts to me.
I didn't recognize anybody. And the problem, I think, is a big problem with this is the characters. I think there are there's a couple of things wrong with this movie that I that that stopped me from enjoying it fully. I didn't hate it. I didn't love it. But the characters um was a lot of the things Yeah. the script, the dialogue, the the words that were coming out of these characters' mouths. Some of it was just bad. Like plain bad.
So it's difficult to assess the performances I think for me anyway because cuz where The dialogue's not great. What chance have you got? I don't know. Like like Dairo is not going to make this project look good, you know?
So, it's tricky. But I didn't recognize anyone. And I didn't particularly like many of the characters very much. I don't know if that's intentional or not cuz obviously in horror films a lot of the time you're meant to want for some people to die, but I don't know really what the intentions were for these characters.
Ordinarily, I would say yes. But I think because of this film's format, And the fact that we obviously I'm getting a bit ahead of myself with this,
but the fact that it's sort of all of them or none of them will survive.
Yeah.
Like the the mechanism of the film itself sort of does away with that.
That's fair.
So I think we are supposed to like them all or at least find them a bit likable.
Yeah.
I think the only one who had any sort of distinct personality was Megan who was the Was her distinct personality psychic?
Psychic. Yeah. But she did actually like her line delivery was kind of funny in a couple of places and like she seemed like she was having fun with it
whereas the rest of them were just a bit like it was a little bit by the numbers. None of them were really standouts.
Yeah. Some I mean some of the the some of the lines in it I I don't know. I felt like it was written that very morning.
Yeah. I know exactly what you mean. They just wrote it as they went along. That water wall thing that's in the beginning. Oh, what? Like I hated
I think I wrote that. Yeah,
I hated it.
Oh, that famous Oasis song. Water wall.
Who who decided that joke past must have? That's terrible.
Yeah,
(03:10):
but yeah, I think it's funny because I've seen in a few places this get um compared to Cabin in the Woods.
I was going to bring this up. Yeah,
which I find really interesting because at the part of Cabin in the Woods. Each of the characters obviously as a plot point resembles a horror movie trope.
Yeah.
And so it's funny that this gets compared to it because all of these people could be the same character
on paper.
They're not very distinct, are they? No,
you're right.
No. And I'm not saying I'm not saying they should fall into like the horror movie stereotypes.
No,
because I feel like we're a bit past that. We've we've pasted that. We've parroed it to oblivion. Yeah,
but at least give them some sort of distinction.
You're not given much for these characters, and that's that's a big problem, I think. Like, I I want to be either rooting for them or wanting them to them to die horrifically. And I didn't really have either of those responses. I was just sort of watching it going, "Oh, okay. They've exploded now."
Like, in my head, it was just psychic, missing sister, psychology student, and the other two.
Yeah,
that was it.
Oh, did someone have a missing sister.
Yeah.
Oh, I think they mentioned that toce or twice. Yeah. Yeah.
It's It's interesting. So, the It's a relative cast of unknowns in the movie.
Mhm.
(03:31):
The game had quite a few names. It did
in the cast. It did.
It's funny. The game had more star power than the movie.
Yeah.
Cuz the game also had Peter Storm.
It did as Dr. Hill, but a different Doctor Hill.
Okay.
Obviously, I've already said it. I'm going to spoil what happens in the game, but the Doctor Hill that he is in the movie could not be the same Dr. Hill that he is in the game
for various reasons.
Well, he's working multiple jobs. He's working at that petrol station
ever since the mine closed down because it
the Glor the Glor mine.
Yeah. Glor Valley.
So, what you're saying is that they were mining in this town called Glor and a massive hole formed.
Yeah.
So, it was a glor hole.
Don't Don't I hate that. any excuse to get the phrase uh g********* into a podcast and I'm going to take it. I I don't care who you are. I'm going to do it.
Fair enough.
The the Yeah, the game had um Hayden Panitier, Ramy Malik,
um others, some other people.
Some other people, but like big names. Maybe Remy Malik wasn't the name. This is pre um pre-bo rapy Malik,
(03:52):
but post heroes Hayden Panaceier.
Wasn't it post Mr. Robot though? probably
or maybe at the same time as
yeah maybe I mean this game was out in 2015 right so it's probably a couple of years development two three years in development so most likely before
Mr. Robot I would say
okay
so sticking with the game then obviously the game is a certain has a certain game mechanic the film is a film it's an adaptation of a game it can't be exactly the same and there are differences with the narrative
there are massive differences yeah
massive differences and Do you have a problem with that? I guess is my first question.
Yes. I'm going to out myself as one of those guys.
It wasn't exactly the same as the game.
Yeah, they changed it. I don't like it.
Yeah, I'm I'm sorry. I'm going to be that guy. Um I didn't expect like a scene for scene because what would be the point? So, it's interesting to note that David F. Samberg did actually say this is a story that takes place in the same universe as the Until Dawn game.
Oh, did he?
So, he's not ne necessarily calling it a remake of the game or even an adaptation.
Okay,
so that's important to point out, I think.
Okay,
so the game succeeded because it was basically an interactive 10-hour horror movie in like a choose your own adventure format.
Like there were different points at which you could make decisions on behalf of the characters. Like you it switches POV. You are you play as various different characters. throughout.
Do you want to help this person or would you like to run away?
(04:13):
Do you want to befriend the dog? Might come in handy later.
But they don't tell you that bit surely.
A tip. Befriend the dog. Um, no. They don't tell you that obviously. You just But that that's the best part about the game.
Yeah.
Is that it sort of has this autosave function, which means
if you make what you deem to be an incorrect decision and one of the characters dies, you can't just respawn from like the last save point. And that's what made the game great. You have to just sit with your decisions
and suffer the consequences
and the rest of it just plays out.
Yeah. If people die, they remain dead. You move on to different characters.
Um there isn't even really an aim.
Like I I guess the most normal way to play it would be to try and make choices that you think will keep the characters alive. But I don't think the game suffers from making the wrong choices, quote unquote. Um, if people die, you still continue playing. And there are at least three different outcomes for the final act that I know of.
I did find an article that said
there are potentially sort of hundreds of minute ways in which it changes, but there's like three main outcomes, I think. And so, it's really curious to me that they then decided to make the movie the antithesis of that.
I find it so strange and that's the thing that I can't get past because like I said making a snap decision cuz a lot of the time you aren't given very long like it's a it's on a timer. You have to make a decision quickly and live with the consequences of it. Whereas in this they're stuck in a time loop and it keeps resetting which is so antithetical to what Until Dawn was. So that's my biggest sticking point.
Yeah, I I hear what you're saying given that the mechanics of the game are a certain way. You make decisions and you have to sit with those decisions and the game plays out as per the consequences of those decisions.
Yeah. I mean it was predicated on the whole butterfly effect theme. Like
that's what I like to call it, the butterfly effect. Yeah. Do you?
I coined that too.
Did you? Does Ashton Kutcher know about that?
Uh no, I coined I went back in time and coined it um years and years ago. Oh, I see.
And then people like suddenly it caught on.
(04:34):
Mhm.
And now everyone calls it the butterfly effect, but only cuz I went back in time.
Right. I see. Yeah.
Yeah. So the the film the film is doing, as you say, it's sort of the opposite thing, isn't it? Because it's
like onto one time because the one thing you can't do is reset.
Yeah. And the I guess when you when you see a time loop movie, I guess they they they already feel like computer games in a way. your Palm Springs, your Groundhog Days, your Happy Death Day, which is a comparison to this movie.
Um, like there the there's already an element of you're learning from your decisions and you can go back and sort of redo it, but you don't have that in the game. So, it is interesting that they decided to go completely the opposite route. But then, how do you short of making this a choose your own adventure style bander snatch type deal, how do you how do you adapt it.
Honestly, I don't know. I don't have a good answer to that.
You just make it a regular movie, I guess.
Yeah. I think there are so many possibilities. Um, specifically cuz Samberg kind of said it's not a direct adaptation. It's not a remake of the source material. So, he could have gone in any direction.
Yeah.
So, for them to to go with something that is effectively the inverse of the games makes little to no sense. Although it's it's important to mention he didn't write the film.
No. No, he didn't.
We are sort of I'm I'm lumping all the blame on him, but it's not necessarily his fault.
Yeah. Do you think that there was a lot of pressure there to because obviously the game, I'm guessing, was pretty successful.
So, I think so.
Is there pressure there to pay homage to the game? How do you do that? Do you decide to go a different way and include some Easter eggs, which I think is the way that they decided to go, I think. And it's it's it's a curious choice because when you're adapting something doesn't not it doesn't even have to just be a video game. When you're adapting anything, there's a certain built-in audience that are going to have certain expectations. So if you're not to some degree playing to those expectations, it's usually going to fail, isn't isn't it? Like I'm not saying this movie failed. Financially it did well. I think the opinion is it's fine for the most part, which is sort of where I I sort of land.
But I I found it a curious choice to sort of go, as you said, go away from the game, but then also trying to trying to pull people back in with certain Easter eggs and things. And there are a few there's even a couple that I picked up on and I
Okay.
played the game for 20 minutes.
I saw that picture of Remy Malik.
(04:55):
Oh, yeah. The fi the patient file.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which is interesting to me because a lot of people have disputed online what the timeline is because They've been told that this movie is in the same universe as the game.
And when the film ends, we do see a car pulling up to a snowy cabin, which looks a little bit like the game.
So, some people have decided that the movie's a prequel, but I don't think that lines up.
That's what I was thinking.
Unless there are multiple Peter Storm at this point, which there might be.
There might be. He got his clones. This is in a Resident Evil universe where everyone's a f****** clone.
Yeah. All right.
I've got a question for you. All right.
Mhm.
In the universe of Glor Valley.
Glor Valley. That's just another another way of saying the same thing, isn't it?
Go on. What's your question?
Why does water make you explode, Sarah?
Oh god. That's in my notes as well.
What's What's going on? I'm assuming that's lifted directly from the computer game. It
is not. No. Listen,
love the effect. I thought it looked great.
(05:16):
Same. It gave me genuine joy when the first person exploded. I was like, "Oh, okay. An unexpected thing happened."
Very good. Very good.
And the effects work was great.
Uh, but then they lent on that a little bit too hard.
Yeah.
And it started to become a bit annoying and then it sort of reemerged as a bit of a McGoffin. Yeah, you're right. You're right. It's It was um Was it Czechov's Exploding Water?
I think so. Yeah.
Yeah, I thought so. Yeah, it's a It was a weird thing. Do you know what there one of my issues with this film is that there's certain things that happen in it that I just sort of have to do a double take at.
Yeah.
Like, what?
What? And then they're like,
because depression. I'm like, oh, right. Okay. Um and it's it's weird. And that's one of them. Like, but on paper, like looking at it, just watching the thing happen, watching someone explode, Brilliant. Looked great. I watched the behind the scenes stuff which is on pony this pony smasher um YouTube channel about how they did those effects. Not too dissimilar to when we were talking about Colin Salmon getting meat cubed in Resident Evil. You make a dummy of an actor and then you blow it up.
Yeah.
Um really cool. It was the last thing that they shot so they kind of had to get it right. And the first time it wasn't perfect, so they I think they used like a blue mist when the the thing exploded. did and then they decided to use the red mist cuz that looked more like blood. Who'd have thought? Um, but it looked it looked really good. It was a really good effect that was just way way overused. I thought that was kind of the best thing in this movie as a that a lot of the effects I thought looked very good.
Mhm.
I do think that that's probably the strongest element of this movie and that was a bit of a standout. Particularly that bathroom moment when Babe just chugged down a glass of brown water and exploded. It was like, "What?"
Yeah.
Awesome.
But it didn't f****** make any sense narratively.
And it, look, I'm not a stickler for realism in these sorts of movies. It's a time loop movie. It's basically science fiction.
So, all bets are off. I don't need everything handed to me on a silver platter. But I need something.
(05:37):
Yeah.
What was it about the water? Why? Why explosions of all things?
Yeah. I think it was the witch.
You think it was the witch? Okay. Yeah. Must have been. Who else could it have been?
Um, yeah. No, you're probably right.
Could have been the ghost, I guess.
Or the weird clown mask.
Yeah, could have been the weird clown mask guy.
Okay, so this is a big departure from the game. This is when I'm going to get into some of the nitty-gritty of the the plot of the game. So, basically, uh, some of the game has been retained in that the game starts and you're at this Lodge and it's a bunch of friends who are sort of I want to say college student aged,
early 20s.
Yeah. Like a push late teens.
Um there are two twin sisters there called Hannah and Beth.
Now the group decides to play a trick on I think it's Hannah and she ends up like legging it out of the ski lodge. Her sister follows her. They see a creepy guy. They fall off a cliff. They're never Look, you you've seen all of this. This was part of the 20 minutes that you actually played.
Yeah. I was looking at my phone, I think.
Right. That's uh that tracks and and then we kind of go to a year later. So, some of that is retained because this starts with I was I was going to say what's her name, but it's Clover.
Clover. Yeah.
This starts with Clover's sister because apparently she's a horse. Clover is only an acceptable name. for a horse.
You should only be called Clover if you're horse. You heard it here on Shostage.
Exactly.
If your name's Clover and you're not a horse, suicide.
I would never suggest such a thing. No. Um but Deeppole is there for a reason.
(05:58):
Okay. Yeah, let's go with Deepole. That's the best solution.
Yeah, the more humane solution. But yeah, it opens on her sister who is obviously the one who we later learn is missing. Bursts out of the ground.
Very much the same vein as the descent too.
Yeah.
And also a little bit Evil Dead.
Yeah.
I suppose. Um
Yeah. Very Ramy.
Yeah. A little bit. And then she sort of does does the whole Oh no, don't kill me again.
Which is Yeah. If you've never played the game, kind of a an interesting hook to a to a horror movie. I get that. But This is where they sort of differ quite drastically. So in the game, Josh, who's Ramy Malik's character, turns out he was the brother of the twin sisters, they are missing, presumed dead. It's been a year. He wants to get all of his friends back to the ski lodge as like a memorial weekend or whatever. And weird s*** starts happening. And it turns out he dies. He gets killed. But does he? No.
Turns out he's faked his own death and he's the one who's been playing pranks on all of his friends to get his own back for them pranking his sisters, which is what led to their supposed deaths.
Normal reaction.
Normal
grief makes you do weird things.
It does. But look, we're not here to judge, okay?
And it turns out all of the kind of the cut scenes, I suppose, where you're talking to Peter Storm's therapist is sort of a hallucination of Josh's.
Oh, okay.
And the things like the raw shack tests that he's showing you and saying, "What do you think this looks like or what are you more afraid of or whatever?" That is sort of informed by the choices that you then make. And yeah, they they kind of go a different direction in the film. It's a lot less intriguing because there's just this masked guy who I believe is supposed to be like the standin for Josh because the mask is very similar to the one he wore in the game.
Okay.
But no, it's just this mysterious guy that's stalking them.
Yeah.
(06:19):
Which isn't explained. I guess like a I don't know, maybe a minor that died in the mine collapsed that they talk about.
Well, everything's trying to kill them, isn't it?
Yeah. Oh, literally everything. The water.
Yeah, even the water. Yeah.
So, it's just one of these weird
monster ghosties. things. You've got You got him. You got the witch. You've got the face worm. You got the exploding water. You've got the Wendigos.
The Wendigos. See, that is the other big crossover with the game. It makes it makes more sense in the game and I think it's truer to actual Wendigo lore. So, I do have some notes about this. Bear with me. Sit tight. So, in Wendigo law, um it's basically it comes from Alangquin folklore. So, So people who are native to the North Americas predominantly who are part of the Algangquin language speaking family. Um they describe wendigos as like giants with sharp claws. Sometimes they have antlers. They typically emerged in places that had long or harsh winters where food became a scarcity. And it's linked to greed slash a fear of star. starvation, but it can also manifest as like a spirit possessing somebody and turning them into a wendigo. Um, I think typically the more traditional law seems to be that people who indulge in cannibalism then turn into a wendigo whereas in in the real world you just get some sort of f***** up pron disease.
But in the movies you turn into a wendigo.
Yes.
And I think that was just dealt with so much better in the game because it turns out that one of the girls, I believe it's Hannah, basically had to resort to cannibalism. She ate Beth and because she'd eaten the flesh of a human being, that's what turned her into a wendigo. And you sort of, you don't find that out. You just see these monsters who are terrifying in the game, by the way. And you only realize when you see, I think it's a butterfly tattoo, and that's when you sort of put two and two together. But it's such a good reveal in the games. because there are there's the additional threat of like some guy walking around outside with what looks like a flamethrower. Um, which by the way was Larry Fessendon who co-wrote the game and doesn't get a credit here which makes me sad. He's Wendigo obsessed that man. So there are sort of multiple threats or things that are deemed to be threats in the game
but they really do just want to chuck in everything but the kitchen sink in the film.
Well, I that. But my problem was that there wasn't enough. I thought that there should have been more monsters. Like we we had the mask killer, we had the water, we had the face like but really it was just a mask killer and saw the Wendy goes
like they promised a witch but you had the witch for one scene and it f***** off.
All she did was like put a gas mask over one of the characters and like knock knocked somebody out.
Yeah. And then she f**** off and then that's it. Never never to be seen again. Yeah.
Um, night four was apparently supposed to be werewolves.
Oh,
did is it are werewolves any part of the game?
No.
But I feel like that's what this was missing this film. And the the easiest comparison something you mentioned earlier, Catherine in the woods.
Yeah.
(06:40):
That is so successful because it leans on these archetypal characters where you can play into the tropes and the and
uh portraying the tropes is a joke in itself. So there's that entertainment factor, but then also the monsters were really cool
and you got to see all this weird s*** that you'd never seen before and this sort of pro sort of promises that and doesn't really go fully into it and I don't really blame the filmmakers for that because 15 million budget I think this is probably as best you can do like in terms of how it looks. Um but I just felt like there could have been more and I was really disappointed to hear that they had shot werewolf stuff.
Oh, they shot it.
They had shot it. It was included in the movie. It didn't test well so they moved it. Apparently, I missed this in a film, but apparently, you know, the um hourglass
that motif, you keep getting um cutaway shots to that every time the night changes. And apparently on night four, in the middle of the hourglass, there's a moon
and that's still in the film.
Um but yeah, it's curious that they didn't choose to include that. It must have been They said it didn't test well. I don't know what that means and depends on the audience you've got at the time, I guess, but on paper I want to see that, please. I'd like to see that.
In theory, that does sound interesting.
Yeah.
And again, I guess that sort of speaks to one of my other big frustrations with the film is that there's so much untapped potential
because I think one of my favorite moments is I can't remember which night it is, but they sort of realize that they've been getting increasingly forgetful and it turns out that they they think they've got about 13 tries to get this thing right before they turn into Wendigos. And Jesus, there's a lot. Like hearing myself say it, there is a lot going on in this film actually.
Yeah.
But then we get that point where they they wake up and they're all like, "Oh god, what what day are we on?" And then they realize that somebody's been filming each night that they've forgotten on their phone. And the footage that we see on the phone is some of the best in the film or some of the scariest, some of the freakiest stuff,
but it It's so brief and there's just not enough of it. I wish that had been explored a little bit more.
I agree. I think if I had to guess, I would say that that stuff feels like re-shoots to me,
right?
And we've got something here, but there's not enough. Let's put another couple of uh water explosions in there. Let's let's do two days and get who we can from the cast back in a warehouse and strap someone to chair and put face worms on them. I reckon that's what it is. But yeah, I agree. Like some of that stuff was really cool. I really liked the face worm. That was maybe my second favorite thing. Just a layer of of skin over the actor and then a little a little rubber worm thing poking out that was being controlled by air.
By air?
Yeah. They pump it.
Oh,
(07:01):
not in that way.
Yeah. I It didn't occur to me that that could be re-shoots.
Um but you Yeah, you might be right. You might be right, but I think there's some really interesting stuff there and I just I'm sad that that didn't get explored a little bit better. And also it featured one of my least favorite things and that is that it it worked in things like early fan footage. They got away with it but you know when you're seeing a video on a phone in a film and then that it starts like artifacting and glitching and you get the lines and I'm just like it wouldn't be corrupted. The file would not be corrupted in that way. It really annoys me.
I think the phone is haunted by
Yeah. Maybe
the ghost witch.
Maybe
of the cabin.
Okay.
Yeah.
The glor witch.
The glor witch.
Yeah. All right. Did you know that this is sort of part of a wider universe?
Well, the game at least. So, the game we haven't even The game was put out by Super Massive Games. I think they partnered with Sony originally for for the first Until Dawn and it was a PlayStation exclusive. I know they've done a lot of stuff since which is also available on Xbox as well. But there was I got so excited. There was there was a an announcement that there was going to be an Until Dawn sequel and me and Phil were so hyped and then it got closer to the date and it was like, "Oh, it's a VR game." Immediately excited.
Yeah.
They're like, "Oh, it's it's kind of like an on the rails thing that's got absolutely nothing to do with Until Dawn except we're just using the name." Yeah. It really annoyed me.
And it's last for 12 minutes.
It was s***.
Oh, you played it?
Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. Didn't enjoy it
at all. And
(07:22):
I wasn't aware of that. What else?
Yeah. Well, there was another game as well, which I think was also for VR called The Inatient, which again was in the Until Dawn universe, but I didn't play that one. Um, and in fact only found out it existed quite recently.
But yeah, they um they went on to do um what they called the Dark Pictures Anthology and apparently they're aiming for there to be eight games in total. But so far they've done Man of Madan, Little Hope, House of Ashes, and the Devil in Me, which do seem to be at least the Man of Madan. I did download that. I haven't played it yet, but they do seem to be roughly the same sort of format. uh in that it being kind of like a choose your own adventure thing where you um I I guess the best way to describe the games is that they're almost intended for like group activities.
Oh, would you say?
Yeah, like if you have um like a gaming party and a bunch of you come around and get snacks and have drinks and stuff and take turns, I I could see that being fun.
Yeah. Have a land party.
Sure. Um and then of course there is the quarry which I think I think is the most recent one, which is 2022, um that they've called a spiritual successor to Until Dawn, but it's not strictly speaking in the same universe as I'm quite keen to play that one.
Yeah, you should definitely. I had no idea that the world was so expansive. I'd never even heard of the game until you mentioned it to me when we uh when we played it that time,
which surprises me because you're a PlayStation guy and I'm an Xbox person. So, if one of us were to have heard of it. You'd think it'd be you.
Yeah, but I play one game.
That's true. Yes. Unless it's Gran Turismo, you're not interested.
Robocop game.
Spider-Man or Robocop. Yeah.
Yeah. And you did buy Hell Divers and then didn't play it.
Yeah, cuz I couldn't figure out how to get off the ship.
I got annoyed.
You raged quit after 10 minutes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it looks good though. I just watched videos on TikTok. It was cool.
Yeah. Just watch Starship Troopers again.
(07:43):
Yeah, I will. After having seen this film, do you have any more desire to revisit the game?
No.
No. Still no.
No. Cuz the thing is with the game is that those sorts of games are not really my jam. Because for me, I'll just watch a film. I I watch a film and then I don't have to have a controller in my hands and click the things. And also, when I do play storybased games, I'm never watching the cut scenes. I'm always skipping them
cuz I just want to play the game. For me, I want to play a game, not watch a movie. And for me, this is kind of the worst elements of both those things.
That's so funny because I I'm I'm like kind of with you in theory.
I'm also of the opinion that if I want to watch a film, I'll watch a film. And if I want to play a game, I'll play a game. However, I think this I think until Dawn, the game is the best of both of those things
rather than it being the worst.
Yeah.
So, we have very different opinions on that.
I just And also like I just don't I'm not very invested in it. So like when it presents me um with a decision,
I tend to go for whatever the stupidest decision is just for fun, just to make it exciting.
But you but but the best part about that is that you you still can't you can't lose.
Yeah.
Um as you would in like more standard game play. You can make you can absolutely make the stupid decision every time and continue playing.
Yeah.
I don't know. Maybe it gets more interesting.
I don't know. But then I've got to watch all the videos. stuff and I'll just be like, "Well, I'll go on my phone while this is on." But then that's the point of it, isn't it? It's the story.
Yeah.
And I'm not interested in watching a cutscene story on a in a computer game. Not at all.
That's fair. But I find the story in the game much more intriguing than the story in the film.
(08:04):
Than the story in the film.
Even despite the overlaps, I think. I don't know.
In the game, is there a town called Galore that does too much mining and sinks?
Well, there is. Um, there is some gameplay in a mine. It's been a few years, so I don't remember the specifics, but yeah, that the the mine elements are definitely taken from the games.
Okay. And what did you think of the Cuz we get we get a an explanation, do we about all this why this weird s*** is going on from Peter Storm, who's not a therapist in this. He's just a scientist.
I don't really know.
Human behavioral scientist, also known as therapist. I don't
I don't know. Just just creepy guy.
Yeah. But he he sort of offers explanation about this town suffered a tragedy in 1998 caused loads of grief. Everyone was really upset and then that made everyone all hell come through this hole.
Something like that. Yeah.
Yeah. And that's really it, isn't it? That's cuz it got to that point in the film and he said that and I'm thinking, "Oh, okay. That's why all all of this is happening is it?" And felt a bit um shortchanged really. cuz it it was a bit frustrating. It could have been interesting. I think there's a a version of this movie that's really cool.
Yeah, I agree.
And I didn't have a problem with the time loop stuff. I'm not invested in the game at all. So, the fact that it is completely opposite to that didn't I I don't care about that at all. But I did find the explanation for all of this stuff weird. And like you said earlier, you don't need everything explaining all of the time, but something that's helpful for context. um preferably part of the plot and maybe sort of helps develop character as well at the same time. That would be nice.
It felt like chunks had sort of been cut.
It did. And I wonder cuz when I saw that budget of 15 million, I thought that's insanely low.
Mhm.
And part of me wondered if maybe there were conversations about making this and then Shazam 2 came out and did really badly and flopped.
Oh, so they I think they might have slashed his budget.
Maybe. I don't know. But 15 million feels like how you would ever expect to make a really good adaptation of this horror game, popular horror survival game for 15 minutes. I don't know how you think that that's even possible. So, I think they sort of they all did their best, but I don't think there's necessarily a version of this for that value that comes out any better than this.
I don't think I agree. I I think so many of my issues are scriptbased
script dialogue
(08:25):
but all things that could be fixed with more budget. There's more time to write it. You can do we can't do another draft. We've announced a release date. We've got to go with this script cuz
Well, that's not a budgetary constraint then, is it? That's
Yeah, cuz you need to pay someone to to write the script to to to punch it up to do another version.
No, but I mean if they're saying it's already been announced, we don't have any more time.
Yeah.
That's not budget. That's marketing.
That's the the heads up top. the fact that they've got a release date puts the pressure on them to release it then. So, they're not going to factor in any time to to spruce things up to make things better.
But anyway, I think 15 million was insanely low and it just stood out to me. Like I think if you'd have doubled the budget, it would have been way better. Like even 30 million is not that much, I don't think.
And I think that there's there's certain elements you could have included. I I feel like there's a bunch of stuff that was left on the page. Maybe some of that stuff had more explanation in it, more character stuff, cuz it is the same I forget the name, but it's the same writer that wrote um it is it 2017 that that came out. It was those two movies. He wrote those two.
Uh so it's Yeah, it's weird that it's as clunky as it is and it it I don't know. I feel like it just needed more time.
It's weird that you say you feel like there was some stuff that was left on the page and I'm just like I wish there was some stuff some more stuff that had been left on the page. I think some of it shouldn't have been filmed. It's funny. I I think I'm kind of coming at this from a different direction than you because as a horror fan, I'm used to watching films with significantly lower budgets
and I think the horror genre is one of the best for showcasing doing things on a shoestring and stretching your budget and
I 100% agree.
Necessity being the mother of invention.
But but the problem is is that this film is so invested in it's all about dying 13 times. Five people dying 13 times. That's a lot of deaths you've got to cover. So, we need to make them interesting and look good. And that to do that, they did a lot of stuff practically, which I really appreciated. And it looked very good.
Apparently did quite a lot of in camera effects as well, which is
a lot of editing trickery. Super impressive.
Yeah. A lot of like whipping around and then coming back to the the the focus point and, you know, using that technique.
So, there's a lot of really clever film making techniques used and some really good use of CGI to punch up like make the gore look better. There was an element a scene where the masked killer gets his head bashed in
and they showed a version on the YouTube channel where they did the original one where they bashed his head in just practically and then they did another version where they bashed his head in practically but then
they killed the guy.
(08:46):
Yeah, they killed Yeah.
Oh my god.
But then they they made it look better in post
um with a VFX and it looked it looked amazing. Like you'd never know that it's CGI. It looked great.
And I think a lot of that is because Samberg is a very effectsdriven filmmaker. Like he's used to doing things with no budget in a cupboard in his flat in Sweden
and there's certain tricks and techniques that he's picked up and things that he uses along the way that really works. And I think someone else directing this at 15 million, if Uve B would made this movie, same movie, $15 million,
Sony would never have allowed that.
Way, way, way worse.
Yeah, of course. Of course.
Yeah.
But at the same time, do you think David F. Samberg is a a director who's got a specific sort of flare or do you think he's got a more peruntory style? Cuz I don't I didn't find the cinematography in this particularly interesting. In fact, it looked kind of dreary and boring a lot of the time. I agree. I think he's great when it comes to the the effect work and kind of thinking on his feet and figuring out which techniques to use, but I don't necessarily think he's the greatest director.
I I think he's a very good director. I like the stuff that I've seen of his, which is uh Have I seen Annabelle Creation?
I doubt it.
Probably not. If you haven't shown it to me, then I haven't seen it.
No.
But I feel like I've really enjoyed the way his movies are directed. Um I I agree. I don't think this movie looked amazing, but that's, you know, cinematography. Um but the direction of the action and how the effects play out I thought was pretty bang on. And I that's how I see him. I He's like a like a visual director for me. He's not I don't think he's one of these people that are going to be sit down, write the script, develop it, direct it. He's not a scor an ara or um people doing that sort of stuff. But he's a very good visual director, I think. And I think with the right team, he could do something quite special. Um but that's this is not until Dawn was not that special thing unfortunately.
No. I mean if it tripled its budget at the box office then he'll continue to get work in this sort of vein.
Yeah.
Which is great for him but I think his talents could be used better. He needs a better script.
He needs a better script and and I don't necessarily agree with you on that point. I don't think he's like a standout director guy. He's he's not like a just a pointandshoot Kevin Smith guy either. But I wouldn't call him like a particularly great filmmaker. I think he's got some good ideas though.
We've already mentioned Happy Death Day. We've already mentioned Cabin in the Woods as comparisons to other horror movies.
(09:07):
Mhm.
I didn't realize how many horror game adaptations there have been until I sat down on to Google today and said, "How many horror adaptations have there been to Mr. Google?" And I got an answer and there's more than I thought.
Go on.
Res. evil. We've already spoken about that obviously in episode one.
Um, Silent Hill.
Mhm. There's a new one coming out next year as well.
A new Silent Hill. Is it Silent Hill 3 or is it a reboot?
I think it's called Return to Silent Hill.
So, who knows?
Okay. I liked that first Silent Hill movie.
Yeah.
I thought it was good.
You're You're entitled to be incorrect.
Uh, Doom.
Do you remember Doom was a film that came out?
Yeah, I do.
With Dwayne Johnson.
Mhm.
And Cole Urban.
Yep.
And Dexter Fletcher.
(09:28):
Oh god.
Was he in that?
I don't remember. I don't remember a huge amount about that film. I loved the um the game that they brought out. I was going to say like a few years ago.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But um like the they redid it all.
Yeah. Doom Remastered.
And I was going to say like a few years ago. It was probably like a decade ago now.
I think one came out about 5 years ago which I bought and didn't play.
It was the one before that.
Right. Okay.
Loved it. So much fun.
I never played the Doom game as a games as a kid. I was very much aware of them,
but I would not have been allowed to play them.
That was one of the first games I got for my PlayStation. It was Wipe Out, Doom, and um eventually Tomb Raider.
Look, I was a really coddled, sensitive child. I was allowed to play lemmings on the school computer, but I got really sad whenever they got crushed. So, Doom would have just destroyed me, I think. think.
Yeah. Did Did you watch the film Doom?
Uh yeah. Oh, yeah. I did. Yeah. But I don't remember a great deal about it.
It wasn't great.
No, I do remember that.
Yeah. Um Uve B who is the video game in this whole se this whole season obviously is about video game movies and I feel like in every f****** episode Uve Bol unfortunately is going to come up because he's probably directed the most outside of Paul WS Anderson
(09:49):
and yet not one good one.
No. Um Blood Rain apparently he directed which I've never heard of until this afternoon.
Really?
Yeah. I think I've heard of the game but I didn't know that there was a film.
Oh yeah.
And I've not played the game. I don't know anything about it. I've just heard of it. That's it.
Right.
But it's vampire thing.
Mhm.
Yeah. So there's that. He he did uh House of the Is it House of the Dead?
Mhm.
Alone in the Dark.
Yep.
Like all horror games. All Uve bowl.
A very successful one. Five Nights at Freddy's.
Oh, of course. Of course, there's a sequel to that being made as well.
Six Nights at Freddy's.
Yeah, I believe so.
I We didn't go to see that. We haven't watched Five Nights at Freddy's.
No, I wasn't particularly interested because I've never played the games and to the best of my knowledge, they're more for a younger audience.
Okay.
(10:10):
So, I assumed it wouldn't be up my street.
The game is not something that I'd heard of. I'd heard the film was coming out.
You'd never heard of the game? Oh my god, it's huge. Like,
is it just walk into HMV and the merchandising is insane.
Well, you see, the problem is that I would see something like that and just not really register it. Think, "Oh, it's a cartoon or something."
Well, knowing Freddy Fazbear's name got me a point in a film quiz once, so
yeah, never seen it, never played it, but knowing things, absorbing information by photosynthesis.
Sarah, what is your specialist subject? It's Five Nights at Freddy's.
Yeah, I'm not going to be on that.
Thank you very much. university challenge anytime soon, am I?
That's mastermind.
I know that is
Sarah, what's your specialist subject? It's British quiz shows.
Eggheheads.
Egg heads. Is there an actual show called Eggheheads?
Yeah, there was. I don't know if there still is.
Uh, yeah. Um, what else we got here? Oh, Dead Rising. Do you ever do you know Do you ever watch that movie?
I have both played the games and watched the movie. zombie situation.
There's a second one. There's Dead Rising Watchtower as well.
Oh, is that the sequel?
Yes.
(10:31):
Okay. The sequel to the film.
Yeah.
So, there are two Dead Dead Rising films,
I believe. So,
is that the one where they've got like a massive stick and a saw on it?
Yeah. There's some interesting weapons.
Yeah.
It's a fun game actually.
It sounds a bit like that other one that you played that Left 4 Dead.
I love Left 4 Dead. I'm amazed there hasn't been a Left 4 Dead adaptation so far.
Expensive.
Yeah, it would need to. That's the problem, I think. Yeah. You need to take a big risk or something like that.
Yeah.
Um but yeah, I I would be well up for play watching a Left 4 Dead movie
one day, maybe.
Yeah. Um Monster Hunter. I think that's a horror game also. Paul WS Anderson.
Yeah, we watched it.
Yeah. Rubbish.
Awful.
Rubbish.
Um I'm going to end on a good one.
(10:52):
Okay.
Werewolves Within.
Oh, yeah. Remember that?
Yeah, I do. Directed by Josh Rubin.
Not bad. That movie. It was All right.
Yeah.
So, out of those ones that we've just mentioned, then where do you think Until Dawn sort of sits? It's
Oh, it's definitely one of the better films.
It's way above u B anything's ever done. Right.
Like, it's really difficult. I was asking myself this question this very afternoon. If I hadn't played Until Dawn, would my opinion of the film still be the same? And unfortunately, I think the answer answer is no. Um, because I was such a fan of the game, I came to the film with some baggage, frustratingly, which did affect my enjoyment of the film. Even with that said, I still think I would probably just give this like a two and a half.
Yeah. I mean, I'm
a two. Two and a half. I think there's some It showed some real promise. There was some nuggets of greatness in there, but it just didn't add up to a very satisfying finished product.
I think as much as we have somewhat disagreed slightly in this one, I think ultimately we're ending up in the same place because I'm also at a two and a half out of 100.
Out of 100
out of five, I'm I'm right down the middle. I thought that this was fine. I thought there's there's stuff in it that I did not like at all.
Mhm.
And there's stuff that I really really liked and it's of balanced somewhere in between those two extremes. For me, I think as a fan of films as a movie, I think this is pretty mid.
Yeah.
As a video game adaptation where 90% of them are trash,
this is in the top 10%.
Yeah. Which is so sad.
(11:13):
It's this Assassin's Creed,
Super Mario Brothers, like all top 10% movies. I thought I thought this was all right, you know? I I I
I'm glad that I included it because this was one that I was on the fence about. I nearly swapped it out a couple of times for other things.
That's always nice to do a first time watch for both of us as well.
It's nice to include something that we haven't seen. When I thought about it does, you are super familiar with the game.
So, there's that, too. I I said before that I wanted to include games for the most part, not in every movie that we're covering, but that one of us has played that one of us has some sort of experience with and can come at it from a comparison angle because that's what I've enjoyed doing in this season. You got the game, you got the film, they've adapted it. How is it different? Why is it different? And how many people are crying because it's different? How many people sobbing into their socks?
Just me this time.
Just you. Yeah. It's not like the game and I'm crying and it's upsetting.
They made it different.
Yeah.
No, I'm not. I'm not. one of those people.
No,
I I was just frustrated at the missed opportunity. I I definitely would not have wanted a playbyplay, just a a scene for scene mimicking of the game because where's the fun in that? You want some surprises, but I just didn't love some of the directions they went in.
I think it there was potential that wasn't fully exploited.
Yeah, I I will agree with that.
I'm fully frustrated by that because more budget, more monsters, some like the deaths were good.
Rewrite the characters. Give them some defining characteristics beyond he studies psychology.
Yeah. Yeah. Beyond I mean, you mentioned Megan and she was maybe one of your favorite characters by the sounds of it, but her she she just did this weird psychic thing and it kept happening and it had no bearing on the plot whatsoever. There was no it's not like she's psychic because of depression or anxiety or what other themes that they they dolloped in the third act?
Never. Have you never had like a weird friend growing up that was convinced they were psychic?
No, I I have no not growing up. No, but as a fully grown adult, yes.
Right. Well, there you go then. So, the answer is the same.
(11:34):
Um I I think because of that, we don't necessarily need a reason for it. I think she's just eccentric
and psychic.
And psychic. Yeah,
she's one of the few who thinks she's psychic and is psychic.
It just felt it felt weird to me because it wasn't anything to do with the plot. It didn't really have any effect on anything in the movie. So why was it there?
Well, because that was her defining characteristic, Dan.
Yeah. Okay, I suppose so. But we could make her a human. E, how about that?
Why don't we try that for for size next time?
Well, she was wearing butterfly jewelry, so it tied into the motifs of the game.
The butterfly effect.
Yeah.
Yeah, there were some nods. There were there were some Easter eggs, which I did apprei appreciate. I just wish they were in a better movie.
Yeah, agreed. I wish it was a bit better, but um could I recommend this movie? No, I couldn't. I couldn't. Would I if you' if you would have asked me if I'd gone to see this at the cinema
and you'd have said big fan of the game, Dan. How was the movie? Will I like it? I think I would say I can't recommend it. But you might get something out of it.
Is that would that have been accurate? Is are you glad that you've Do you feel like your time was wasted watching this or
No, I don't feel like my time was wasted. I've seen so much worse.
I know.
It was just a bit like you said mid
Yeah.
It was just a bit unmemorable. Um and I think I think we need more Wendigo media personally, but I want it to be done better.
Yeah.
(11:55):
Let's just watch antlers instead.
Have I seen that?
Yeah, that was pretty mid, too, actually.
Was it?
So, with that done, unless you've got anything else to say about Until Dawn, what are we doing next week?
Well, sticking with the theme of games, what Sarah really enjoys.
Oh,
and has has a film adapted that's probably a brilliant movie and an alltime classic, not just video game movie, but brilliant movie in general.
You're You're taking the piss, aren't you?
Next week, Sarah, we're covering, and again, a fairly recent movie, a fairly new movie, the absolute modern classic masterpiece that is Borderlands.
Oh, f***. Oh, f***. Yeah, I'd forgotten. Yeah.
Oh, crap.
This one's your fault.
Yeah. All right.
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