Warcraft - S12 E92

This week on Shoot the Hostage we’re returning to the pixelated trenches of video-game movies with Warcraft (2016). Expect our usual attempt into film analysis, swearing and enough spoilers to fill a dungeon raid – so make sure you’ve seen the film before you click that listen button. We’re plunging into the world of Azeroth, scrutinising director Duncan Jones’s vision and whether this computer game adaptation managed to capture the spirit of its massive source material, or if it ended up being an orc-wad cinematic experience.

Join us as we explore the film’s cast, from Travis Fimmel’s Lothar to Paula Patton’s Garona, and the king himself, Dominic Cooper. We’ll also dive into the surprisingly stellar CGI for the Orcs (shout out Tobey Kebbell’s incredible mocap performance as Durotan!) contrasting with some of the physical sets, props and costumes.

Here’s what to expect from this week’s expedition:

• We’ll dissect Duncan Jones’s direction and his legacy after Moon and Source Code.
• Dan will most likely bemoan the fantasy elements, possibly making a prerequisite joke about punching horses (which you should never do!)
• Sarah will share her perspective as a World of Warcraft player, but not the games this film is based on.
• Opinions on the seemingly split fan and critical reception.
• We’ll question if the films $160 million budget was truly visible on screen, especially concerning costumes.
• We’ll dive into the character portrayals by Travis Fimmel, Paula Patton, Toby Kebbell, and even the wasted talents of Ruth Negga.
• Debate on whether the film’s “information overload” is too obtuse for newcomers.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello and welcome to Shoot the Hostage with me, Dan, and my partner, Sarah. We're a movie podcast who talks about a different film each week based on a theme. We do swear and we do spoil the featured movie, so only ever listen if you've seen the film or you don't care too much about spoilers. If you're a regular listener, you can just skip forward until you hear the intro music cuz you've heard all of this before. But if you are new to the show and you do enjoy what you hear, there are a couple of things you can do to help support the show. Firstly, make sure that you're subscribed on your podcast player so you get notified when new shows drop on Mondays. Uh you could rate us five stars on Spotify, which couldn't be easier. You just hit the star icon below the show's artwork. Or if you have a spare few minutes, we'd love it if you could submit a review wherever you listen. Uh make sure you come follow us at st_pod on social media. We are active on Instagram, threads, and Tik Tok. And lastly, the biggest thing you can do to help is tell a friend about the show. So that's about it. That's enough preamble from me. Uh over to me and Sarah for this week's episode. So sticking firmly in computer game movies, it's the second episode of my season of aforementioned video game movies to Today we're talking about Warcraft, not Snorcraft, not Warcraft. Before you get in there with those,

(00:01):
why on earth did you choose this? Because you've never played any of the Warcraft games. I don't believe
it's a game, is it?
Well, you've just said video game movies. You know, it's a game.
Yeah. The joke didn't work at all, did it? I chose it because uh I think Paul suggested it.
Paul,
I'm assuming he likes it. I don't know. Maybe he chose it cuz he hated it. He wanted he wanted us to talk about it. But
we need words, Paul. But it was uh the theme was his suggestion, the movie was his suggestion, and I thought, well, let's put it on there. It's it's not a game I'm familiar with. Haven't played it at all. In fact, I thought it was a strategy game, sort of like Age of Empires, but it's not that apparently. You have played it.
Well, so it's a bit more complicated than that. I think a lot of people are under the impression that the movie is based on World of Warcraft, and it's not. World of Warcraft is what I've played.
What world are they in it?
So, the first world Warcraft game came out in 1994.
Oh, is that old? Is it?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, they've been around for a while. I believe it was just called Orcs and Humans, which is what the lion's share of this movie comes from. There have been six Warcraft games all told, I believe. And obviously, the spin-off of those is World of Warcraft, which is I think it's the biggest or I think it's the most successful MMO RPG of all time.
Interesting. What Does MMO mean?
Um, massively multiplayer online role playing game.
Never heard that in my life.
Seriously?
Yeah.
And you're a nerd.
Yeah, but I've never played Warcraft.
That's Yeah, that shows. Um,

(00:22):
is it a land party?
Are we in a land party now?
No, that's that's local area network.
Who's the nerd now?
Um, look, I never denied that. Have I ever denied it?
No, I don't believe so.
No. Why would I? I'd be a liar. Um, I just I think I thought you were more of a nerd than you are. You're quite you you are quite nerdy but about specific things.
Yeah. I mean, everyone's nerdy about their own things, aren't they? Like,
no.
Some people are a nerd for cars.
Would you say somebody's nerdy about Love Island?
Yeah.
Would you?
Yeah.
I just call those people losers.
Well, so do I. But like from their perspective, if someone's seen every single episode of Love Island and they know who did what, who wanked off who on episode,
who gave such a body A hand shandi in the hot tub.
Yeah, sure. They've probably got a hot tub, haven't they?
There's almost certainly a hot tub.
There's definitely a hot tub.
I've never seen an episode of it, let me tell you.

(00:43):
No, me neither.
It's um it's a strange phenomenon that evades me.
My point is is that if you're passionate and you know a lot about something, then you're a nerd for that thing,
I guess. So,
cuz like you like what you like. So, I suppose
So, I'm I'm a nerd about you.
Okay. What's my birthday?
Um do you Want me to give out your information on the podcast?
No.
We might get scammed.
What's my address?
What's your favorite color?
What's your mother's maiden name?
Favorite pet.
You never get it.
Hint, it's not a cat.
It's not a cat.
Um, yeah. So, the World of Warcraft game, I think, started in 2004. So, it was a good decade after the first game came out
that the online version was birthed.
So, 94. You have a game called Orcs and
it's just called Warcraft 1. I think it's the subtitle is orcs and humans.

(01:04):
Orcs and human right. Warcraft Warcraft one. Yeah. And then 10 years later you get a game war of Warcraft. Yeah. And that's the big thing that everyone played.
Yes. That's the one that you pay a subscription fee every month.
What?
Oh yeah. I think
subscription fee. I don't even have a monthly telephone contract.
Yeah. I think it was like 12 quid or something a month back when I played it. And that was like 15 years ago. Yeah.
What do you get for that?
This is like a multi-billion dollar company. Blizzard are a big deal.
Well, so you pay So you pay your you buy the game. I assume you've got to buy the game. You don't
No.
So you pay 12 quid, you get the game.
Um I believe so. You download what you need and then
Okay.
Cuz it's all online. So
So you haven't got to buy the game and then pay £12 a month.
No, no, no. You've got to just pay 12 pound a month. You get the game.
Imagine if you had to pay like 80 quid to buy the game and then a monthly fee just to be able to use is the thing that you already own.
Yeah.
No, people wouldn't sign up to that.
So, what do you get for your £12 a month then? Access
access to the game

(01:25):
to to the game servers. Do you get like magic potions? Do you get like a monthly like backpack full of like candles and like armor and stuff that you need in games like this?
I can't answer those questions.
Flower or something?
Because it's been the better part of two decades since I've played this game. I played it in the very early days, not exhaustively. I was an elf called Sam squ.
Sam squ.
Yeah, it's a Trailer Park Boys reference.
Okay.
And yeah, and I just bimbled around with some of my friends. We did we never did any dungeon raids, but we would do quests and fight monsters and stuff. But it's big big open world thing. Like you pick a realm, aka server.
A realm.
What?
Okay. Um,
and then you and then you live in that server and you've just got to run around
and then you're there forever. Yeah. You're trapped
and and like you can do is and it's open world. You can just go up and talk to people and
Yeah, you can interact with other players. You can do like PvP stuff. So you can like fight other players if you want.
What's PvP? What does that mean?
Player versus player.
Oh, PvP.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.

(01:46):
Um, so yeah, you can do that. If you if you are an openly feminine presenting avatar, then you will get nerds. trying to hit on you.
Uh
because they will assume that you're also female
on the on the computer game.
Yeah. Apparently I was a really sexy elf judging by number of times people tried to chat to me. Yeah.
You look so confused right now.
Okay. Look, each their own, I guess. Why did you choose to be an elf?
Um I don't know. They just look cool.
Because you can choose your avatar. I guess
you can be you could have been an elf. You could have been a an orc. or a human.
Yep.
Cool.
Like all this stuff. Trolls. I don't know.
So, yeah. I mean, I'm glad that you've played this one cuz I did want to have some kind of reference point for most, if not all of the episodes that we're covering in this season. I wanted one of us to at least have played the games.
Well, you say that, but I haven't actually played the games that this film is based on.
But this isn't based on a game, is it? I thought it was
Warcraft one, Orcs and Humans. I think they've taken some stuff from Warcraft 2 and three as well.
But I thought this was a prequel to to the whole thing. I thought like like I suppose
speaking no
Resident Evil last last week. Oh, that's wrong. It's not a prequel. Okay.
No.

(02:07):
All right.
No, not really. Um yeah, some of the some of the characters. What's her face? Um the green lady.
Gamora.
No, because I always that's where I was going wrong with it. Garona. Garona.
My Garona.
Yeah. That's how I remember that now.
But yeah, my brain kept giving me Gamora as well, but I believe she's from one of the games. Um, so they did take specific uh Medivh was also from the games. Like they they have taken specific characters.
Okay.
But as I said, I haven't played any of those. But I do like the the kind of universe that they've created because they sort of their big thing that differentiates them from other similar fantasy stuff is that you can play as the bad guys, quote unquote, like their characters are way more nuanced. You can play as um like monster type characters. You can be a protagonist and be a monster type character and you're not immediately the villain.
Okay.
Most games don't offer you that.
So, are the orcs the baddies in the game?
Well, no. That's what I'm saying. Nobody there isn't really a bad guy like as such. Well, there are, but individual baddies within like a group of people that it's like there's there's one bad egg that ruins it for everybody.
Which is like real life, isn't it?
Yeah, I suppose.
Well, that's I think that's why it's been so popular though cuz it does it deals in more nuance than a lot of similar games.
Yeah. Okay. I see what you mean about the the film then because the film very much did try to do that. Tried to see both perspectives and there was some bad people in both the humans and the orc which I'm sure we'll get into. But yeah, that was one thing that I did like about the uh about the film. Yeah. You and a lot of other people like there aren't many defenders of this film.
Well, I I've seen pretty positive reviews for this. Yeah.
Okay. Cuz I think critically it was pretty panned.
Yeah. They shat on it.
Yeah. And it from what I've seen on like Letterbox and Reddit and stuff, it seems pretty straight down the middle

(02:28):
in terms of fans. Like a lot of fans of the games turn their noses up at the film because, you know, it was a little bit messy. There was a lot of buildup. But then the other half of people are just like, "No, they threw in loads of Easter eggs for the fans." Like, it's, you know, there was enough fan service and it's a serviceable movie that they still got something out of it.
Yeah. I mean, it's tricky, isn't it, with fan service, you could you can't please everyone. You're going to have people that are like, there's too much fan service or there's going to be people that are like, it wasn't exactly like the game and I hate it.
Yes.
So, it's tricky when you're adapting a a video game, I think, or anything really.
Um, so this this wasn't a first watch for you. No, I believe I've seen it before.
When When did you watch it before?
Around 2018ish. 2017. 2018. I did leave it a while cuz I wasn't massively hyped to sort of watch this. It was a Sunday afternoon job maybe.
And fantasy movies tend not to be your jam really. Like the number of times you're just like that you reference how much you hate Lord of the Rings is
like, you know, if you gave me a pound Every time you said something derogatory about Lord of the Rings, I'd have probably like,
I don't know, 75 quid.
75. Okay.
It's a lot over 5 years. You've said it a lot.
Yeah, probably. I mean, yeah, fantasy is not really my my cup of tea for the most part. I think the most fantasy that I can get with is kind of your Conan the Barbarian just cuz it's got Annie in it and he punches a horse which is lovely.
So that's your prerequisite.
If there's no horse punching in my fancy movie, I ain't interested. If a if I ain't a take what turns into James L. Jones and vice versa, then I don't give a f***.
So, am I to discern from that that you don't like this movie?
I think this movie is fine.
Okay.
I It there has some good stuff. Like, it's as a video game movie, I think it's okay. It's not great. It has its problems, but there is stuff to like about it, which I'm sure we'll get into.
Okay. I feel like I should also point out that this was also not my first time watching, which came as a shock to me.
When was the first time you watched it then?

(02:49):
I don't know because I thought I hadn't seen it. And yet, when we sat down to watch it the other night, it got to the end of the movie and I was like, either I've seen this before or I've just had like mad deja vu for the last hour and a half.
I definitely seen this before and I think I must have been so underwhelmed that I just forgot. So, um yeah, those are my feelings on this film.
Do you reckon that you were quite excited for it when it came out? Being such a huge fan of the games?
Um, being such a You're just retconing everything I said in the first 15 minutes.
Yeah.
I
I'm going to cut everything that you said out.
You're going to re-edit it to make me sound like a total Warcraft fan girl.
Yeah.
I don't think I was particularly hyped. No. I was probably reasonably stoked about it. Not least of all because I really enjoyed Moon and obviously This was same director Duncan Jones. Son of
Zoe.
Well, yeah. Son of David Bowie or David Jones.
Davy Jones.
No, that was the That was the thing. That's why he went with Bowie for a stage name because there was already a Davy Jones.
Yeah, the Squid Guy.
No, the guy from the Monkeys.
The what?
The band. The Monkeys. Hey. Hey, we're the Monkeys.
Oh, yeah. I've heard that. A TV show also.
People say we're monkey around. I used to love the TV show.
Did you? Yeah, genuinely

(03:10):
loved it.
Loved it as a kid. Yeah,
I remember it being on.
I liked Mike Nesmith cuz he always he always had a little toque on.
Is he a monkey?
Mhm.
Okay.
None of them were actual monkeys.
No, I know. That's the disappointing thing about it, isn't it?
Yeah. If you tune in with zero knowledge, you might get a bit of a shock.
Coming up next on Terry Wogan. It's the monkeys. It's the what? Sarah, get the popcorn. Oh. Yeah, it's just four guys.
Yeah, just watched the Nicholas Cinjun interview of you again.
Yeah. So, what did you think of Moon? That That was pretty well received, wasn't it? That one.
I really liked Moon when it came out.
Yeah. Oh,
I thought it was I thought it was excellent. And I I rewatched it a little while ago, about 4 months ago, when I was staying in a hotel, and I didn't like it as much.
Oh, okay.
It's decent, don't get me wrong, but my memory of it was Oh, it it blew me away.
M. Um, so yeah, I didn't I didn't love it as much as I I did before. And then so after that, Duncan Jones made Was it Warcraft after that or or did he make something else?
I don't know. What year was Moon?
So Moon was 2009. Oh, I'm forgetting about Source Code. It was Moon 2009.

(03:31):
Source code 2011, which I quite liked
and then Warcraft and then Mute.
Oh no.
Oh no.
But I initially really loved Moon.
Yeah. like source code.
Hated source code.
So I think maybe that was sort of the reason that I sat down to watch Warcraft cuz it was uh Zoe Bowie. I was like, "Yeah,
like this guy's work. Let's watch it."
And then he made Mute.
And then he made Mute, which was very good, was it?
No. Awful. Awful movie.
Strange movie as well.
Like shockingly bad.
Yeah.
Like I make a really good double bill with Polar for somebody that you hate.
I didn't mind Polar.
Well, yeah. You You are wrong. Sometimes
you always bring up Polar, don't you?
It's one of the worst films I've ever seen.
Is it worse than The Polar Express?

(03:52):
I've never seen The Polar Express, so I couldn't tell you.
Me neither. I think Jones came on to the property relatively late because I want to say around 2006, Blizzard wanted to get a movie made.
Okay. As early as that. Wow.
Yeah. And I know that you know this, but Uve Bo
wanted to direct this movie and had written to Blizzard expressing his interest to direct the feature and they said no.
Good. Good on them.
They said no. I've got the exact quote here. Do you want to hear the
I do want to hear the quote. Yeah.
We will not sell the movie rights. Not to you. Especially not to you,
which just absolutely killed me. And it's the right move cuz Uve B has never made a good movie as far as I can tell.
Um that one about was it called Rampage?
Yeah. possible. He's never made a good video game movie
and he's made loads.
He's made so many.
He's the poor man's Paul WS Anderson, isn't he?
Wow. That's saying something if you listen to our show last week. Wow. Um, yeah, that was a really solid move from Blizzard. I don't blame them wanting to protect their IP like that.
Yeah.
So, yeah. God, no. You wouldn't want that man anywhere near, would you?
No, I don't think so.
That was sensible. And also, I think the budget ended up being about 160 million. You'd have to be insane to put that sort of money in the hands of U B.
Well, I reckon if if it had gone ahead with Uve Ball, then it would have been There's

(04:13):
It would have been 15 quid.
Yeah.
And some statues.
Here's 50 grand. Get creative.
Yeah. Get
And then he would use it to build his own boxing ring so he could challenge critics to fist fights
because he's uh he's a super secure, mature man. Just a normal guy.
Yeah.
Just a good straight arrow normal guy.
Really good guy apparently.
Yeah.
Y
nothing dodgy about him.
So what at what point did um did Jones come aboard?
So Jones came aboard in 2013, January 2013. Before that they were toying with the idea of Sam Ramy doing it, which could have been
interesting.
Um yeah, I don't know. I think do I feel about that? I feel like it would have been a lot of gore. career.
Do you know what how I feel about it, right, is that I just wish Sam Ramy did more horror stuff now.
Yeah.
I miss him doing horror doing horror doing horror comedy Army of Darkness. I think the last one that he that I remember him doing that was a horror comedy was the uh oh, what's that one? The the the uh the curse thing.
Drag me to Hell.

(04:34):
Drag me to Hell. Yeah, that's the last time I remember a horror from Sam Remy.
Yeah, I think if you told me this in 2016, I would have been pretty keen for a Sam Ramy version of Warcraft, but having seen that Doctor Strange movie that he did,
less so.
Yeah.
I don't know. I feel bad even like critiquing him over that one because it's never going to be fully the director's film when it's a Marvel project.
I sort of don't really look at them as director's movies. Any sort of Marvel like you, it's funny that that particular one you can see some Sam Ramy stuff in it. There's more horror in it than your normal Marvel film. It's not horror, but there is stuff in it. And also, you get some of the signature camera movements that we become so used to with with with Remy, but you never these Marvel films are never a director's vision. It's always with Marvel and Feige trying to shepherd the thing into their own vision, as it probably should be, you know? But then I'm also like, well, why get Remy then? Why not just get
someone else that can do some Remy stuff? Get someone cheaper than Sam Ramy. It's a known I suppose it's a marketing thing, right? Directed by Sam Ramy, like another 20% ticket sales or whatever.
Yeah, I know the horror community was pretty excited when it was um announced.
I It probably would have been a similar situation had Ramy directed Warcraft because protective over their IP, probably less so than Marvel. Um but who knows? So maybe it would have been more Remy and it would be interesting to see that. But I think I think Jones did a good job. directing this.
Do you?
I do. Like I said, I don't I don't love this movie. I don't hate it. I think it's just right down the middle. It's okay. I probably would not be in a hurry to watch this again. I did have to pay to rent it.
I know. You were so sure it was on streaming.
Yeah. I I mean, I looked on Letterbox and and it was it was streaming somewhere and but where? I don't know cuz we couldn't find it.
So, you had to pay you had to part with actual human money.
Yes. And we rented it. So, I didn't buy it. So, even if I wanted to watch it again. I probably couldn't, but I
Do you want to watch it again?
I No, I wouldn't be in a hurry to, but if in 10 years it's on telly and it's a Sunday and I've got a stinking hangover, I wouldn't be too angry about re-watching it. It's a pretty easy watch, I think, once you get past the first 20 minutes of just information explosion.
It's funny, isn't it? Because I've seen a lot of people criticize this movie for exactly what you just stated that it kind of overexlains things. And I've seen the absolute opposite complaint from a lot of people saying, "Oh, it's just for those who play the games. There's too much that isn't explained at all." And I think, this is going to sound really mean, but I think maybe both are true. I think in some regards it overexlains, like we're idiots, and I think in others it is a bit too obtuse. It's like, well, who the f*** is this guy? Why is this person important? So, I think it's maybe guilty of both.
I think it the first sort of 10, 15, 20 minutes for me, my head was spinning.
There's so many characters introduced.
There's a lot of moving parts. And I think after that point, I sort of settled and realized that none of it mattered because you start with the orcs, you get introduced to the orc characters, then with the humans, and

(04:55):
Ben Foster.
Ben Foster. Yeah. Magicians. You got magicians in it as well. And they're all like talking about the fell or they're talking about Azeroth and they're talking about orcs. They're talking about portals and they're talking about magic and let's kill a deer and suck its soul out and put it in a baby.
Oh, sacrificing a deer for that little green baby was diabolical.
Why did it happen?
I don't know.
Yeah, but it's stuff like that. Like I Why did I need to see that? And what does it mean? And it was stuff like that that I was looking at and going,
"Oh, cuz the the baby was like still born." So they sort of sucked the life force out of the deer and
Yeah, it was still born. It was still born, but I didn't know what I'm saying. What are you
a Stillborn?
It was still born.
Dan,
you're willfully misunderstanding me. You're doing that thing when you pretend not to know, aren't you?
No.
Yeah,
but there was Yeah, there was a lot of it. There was a lot of info like you need the gobbly to go through the the magic portal thing and and maybe there was some kind of climate change message that we might address later. No, we're not going to we're not going to. If you think it's climate change, then it's probably just your thinking it's climate change. It's probably not.
If you want to watch a movie that's a bit s*** and is predominantly CGI and is about climate change, I guess watch Avatar.
I thought you was going to say The Day After Tomorrow.
No. Avatar, I think, has a lot in common with Warcraft.
Do you?
I do.
Lots of CGI.

(05:16):
Yeah, except in this one, they're not blue.
I think I prefer Warcraft to Avatar.
I still haven't seen Avatar all the way through.
The first one?
The first one? Yeah, I've seen the second one. Well, yeah. We went to the cinema to see it.
Yeah.
God, it's so boring.
Gosh, I couldn't I don't get it. No,
I don't get it.
Same. Oh, cool. Kate Winslet can hold her breath underwater for 17 minutes.
Yeah,
I don't want to see this film.
Was it Winslet or Weaver?
One of them. Somebody is part fish in that cast.
Uh,
one thing that I didn't really understand is when we're getting introduced to all of these characters and we're introduced to the orcs and you see Garona.
Garona,
I was waiting for that. Yep. We're never explicitly told who or what she is. So, I think maybe that is like something you would have to glean from the game or the books or something.
Well, I mean, I looked at her and I thought she's definitely half human, half orc.
Some look a human f***** an orc or the other way around.
I think it was Ben um Foster. You think Ben Foster was her dad?

(05:37):
I think so.
Based on what?
Because he said, "I went on that trip once and I found some love and then I couldn't do it that love anymore, so I had to go away." So, I think that maybe I'm just reading between the lines and I'm getting it wrong. But
you might be reading lines that aren't there.
Maybe.
Okay. Maybe. Maybe that's Yeah.
Cynical hat on. Oh, so that character is from that character exists. They didn't just make it up for the movie. I assumed that they just made it up for the movie. Okay. Because I I assumed that they made it up
because she's s***.
Uh, no. Because I thought, oh, we just need to put like a sexy orc in there for the for the nerds to
to go and hit on.
It's harder to fap to an actual orc.
Uh, I'm not going to ask you what fap means. I'll Google it after.
So, I think one of my issues with her and with many of the human characters are the orcs look so Fantastic. You can tell where the 160 million went. I think actually for 2016, the effects work is pretty stellar in this film.
I think it looks pretty incredible.
Yeah. Still
for what it is.
Mhm. But I think the humans make it look a bit s***.
I think um Dominic Cooper in oversized lion armor makes it look a bit s***. That made me think of Dean Norris in Starship Troopers.
Oh yeah,
it just looked a bit silly.
Big Jack.

(05:58):
Yeah, big. But having said that, I did. I I thought that the also the costumes and the props and the set decorating incredible.
Oh,
incredible. What do you mean terrible?
I thought the costumes were terrible.
Really?
Yes.
Of the human characters.
Really bad.
I thought it was incredible work. I just thought lots of people worked really hard on all of those costumes. And I thought I thought it looked good. I don't think that the I didn't love the Cooper costume, but I think that was more of a sense of I don't know. I just didn't like the way it looked or whatever. But I thought Otherwise, I thought the the props and the costumes were great and the set design was incredible.
The Yes, set design will give you that. Absolutely.
Just the production design all around I thought was was great. I I can't fault it.
I feel like they skimped on the costumes, man.
How they look cheap.
They put put him in a gown.
They look cheap. They look plasticky. I don't know. Didn't do it for me. Don't know what to tell you. But the orcs fantastic and also far more interesting characters.
Yeah, I think that's the one of the problems. with it is that there's too many characters in this there
for a 2-hour movie
they're trying to I felt like it was it wasn't there wasn't a longer version that they cut down but I feel like they there could have been they got through certain points in the film and I thought well why do I care about what's his name Fimmel Fimmel
Lothar
Lothar why do I care that his son's dead because we've seen him in two very minor scenes and there were just too many characters you get introduced to the orcs and you've got the main orc who is called Durotan and and he's got a family. And then you meet his best mate and then you meet the the like head of security or whatever. And then you meet the proper evil orc. And then you meet the humans and you've got Dominic Cooper, you've got Loi, you've got wizard boy, you've got Yeah. the small wizard boy, you've got a big wizard boy, Ben Foster, and then you've got the council of magicians and and we're going to ride some bird horses. Like there's two.
It's a griffin.

(06:19):
Sure.
His mount was a griffin. Okay.
His mount was a griffin.
His mount.
Okay.
There was way too much going on in it. And I think that the probably the biggest issue I would say for me because you had lots, as I say, first 20 minutes, lots of moving parts where my head's sort of spinning going, I don't know the games. I don't know what any of this means. I don't know any of these words you're saying at me. And then, like I said, when I got past that and I realized that none of that really mattered.
Mhm.
Um, it took me about an hour to realize the fell was magic. But I think they're just trying to do too much. I think it was overly ambitious. I think it should have been a longer movie, a hour movie or just strip it right back. Scale it right back.
Whip a few characters out. Like I don't think Lo, what was even Lothar doing there?
Honestly, I think they wanted This is my opinion. It's not based on anything that I've read. Pure conjecture. I think you were on to something when you talked about uh Garona and I think they wanted like a counterpart, like a handsome human to be opposite her cuz they did have that weird sort of forced
Yeah. Oh, look. There's chem chemistry between these two people if you look really close. No, there's not. There's not.
They tried.
But they tried to trick us into thinking there was chemistry between them.
Yeah. I I I wondered if there what they were doing with her at all. Like because there's a point in the film when she goes, "Oh, small wizard boy wants to lay with me." And I thought, "Oh, are they flirting now?"
Who knows?
But then later on after Loa's son dies, she like goes in for a hug and it looks like she's starting to kiss his neck. And I'm like, "What? What's Are they Are they They like each other. I guess I didn't know that was coming. It was It was It was odd. It's like a forced romance where it's just not necessary. And they didn't even they didn't really have a romance. They didn't they didn't kiss or connect in any meaningful way. So, I don't really see what the point was.
But they had like a minute long chat that time.
True. Yeah. And that's enough time to Yeah.
Mhm.
Uh I I do you know what I reckon? I reckon it would have been more interesting if maybe keep the Marona character, keep her, and maybe just tell it from her p perspective cuz if you're going to do
the humans, the orcs, none of them are really wholly bad or like there's a couple of bad eggs that are spoiling it for them each side. It might have been more interesting to have someone that's in the middle of both of them and and tell it from her perspective because then she and I suppose they did a little bit of that where she didn't know if she belonged with the humans or with the orcs and that was kind of interesting. But I think to tell the whole story from her perspective, it could have been a more streamlined experience and more rewarding I guess where she can choose her side, but ultimately decide that actually we can all we why don't we all just get along? I think that would have been that would have been better. You could have whipped out all of the most of the human characters. Um this is not that this is not going to be the last Dominique Cooper movie in this season, which was completely by accident.

(06:40):
Okay.
Yeah.
I don't know if I know which one you're talking about, but I'm sure we'll get to it.
We will.
Um yeah, I think I'm inclined to agree. I think that would have been the better choice. Although I think you would need to recast Garona. I don't think Paul Patton's a good enough actor to center a movie.
Okay. I don't think I know her. I don't think I've seen her in anything else.
I've definitely seen her in other stuff cuz her face is super familiar, but I couldn't tell you one thing beyond this. I know she was m married to Rob Robin Thick.
Okay. And that's a human person.
Horrible human person.
Okay.
Piece of s***. Did that Blurred Lines song that was definitely not at all rapey. It's not blurred lines, Robin. No is a full sentence. No means no.
I mean, I agree, but I don't know the song. So,
Oh, you would. You would. Yeah.
Okay.
It was huge. Anyway, getting beside the point.
Maybe I was in another realm, Sarah.
Maybe you were in Azeroth.
Yeah.
When that was released.
No, we're in Azeroth, aren't we? Cuz it's a human realm.
Well, we're not in Azeroth because we're on Earth and orcs don't exist. I'm really grateful for that fact. I think if I saw an orc, I would s*** myself.

(07:01):
Would you? What What if they were tiny. What if they were like the size of your little finger? Would you be still be scared of them?
No.
Would you?
Would you rather fight one normalsized orc or a 100 tiny orcs?
100 tiny orcs.
So, I just put them in a shoe box and sit on it.
But what if they overwhelm you?
How are tiny orcs going to overwhelm me?
I think you're underestimating.
Master of fighting. IMO hasn't touched his bow staff for 18 months. that he bought impulsively.
Look, I've got a bow staff,
so I could just hit them with it.
Yeah. All right.
I need to know how to use it. I could just use it like a bat.
Sure.
I think I would choose the same thing, actually. But I don't have a shoe box to put them in, so maybe it would be the last thing I ever do.
Do you know uh Travis Fimmel then?
Not personally. Talking about Oh, you don't know him personally? No. Okay. I was going to try and I was going to ask you to try and set up like a meeting.
All right.
So we could have a a little chat about things. You No, I can't do that.
But he was in Vikings.

(07:22):
He was in Vikings. He was like the Viking.
Main Viking.
He was Ragnar Lothbrook.
Yeah, I do. I I really enjoyed Vikings, actually.
I own all the DVDs.
Do you? All of them.
Never seen it.
That's a curious choice.
Yeah, they're up there. Look, it's next to Spooks, which I've also never seen.
And Rome.
And Rome, which I've also never seen. Not my DVD.
I'm guessing these were inherited rather than stolen. Let's make that clear.
I stole them from my dead man.
That's just made every listener deeply uncomfortable.
What is my
was barely cold when he took them?
No, she was alive when I took them. She killed herself cuz I stole her DVDs.
Oh my god. Jesus Christ.
I was going to think about cutting all that out, but I don't think I will now.
This took a weird turn.
Yeah. But so he was in Vikings. I don't think I know him, but apparently was he's Australian and Australian. He's a formal model.

(07:43):
Yes, both of those things are true.
He is not the greatest actor. I think he can do sort of one or two things reasonably well, but I don't think he was very good here.
Why do you think he was cast? Because of Vikings, I guess
potentially.
Yeah. Was that a big show?
Um, at the time I think it was pretty big. You know,
it got quite a few seasons, so it must have been reasonably popular. So, I'm guessing that it was probably a bit of that. Probably a bit of
do our schedules align. By the way, you're a Paul on oldtime fantasy things.
And you look vaguely like Charlie Hunnham.
He does look a bit like Charlie Hunnham, doesn't he?
Yes.
Do you prefer Travis Fimmel or Charlie Hunnham?
Um, neither. Can I choose neither?
Yeah, you choose what you like.
No, thank you.
I've got a few
like I can afford to be picky.
A few A few two alternatives that were potentially up for that role.
Okay, do tell
Paul do.
No, no.

(08:04):
Two.
And I think he's great. He's such a good actor, but no.
Agreed. I think he's brilliant, but too awkward and weird to play a hero like that.
He belongs in the Batman and Prisoners and stuff like that. He doesn't belong in a Warcraft movie
because it needs to be a kind of a stereot archetypal type because it's not the character is not that well-developed. So, if you're going to have it, none of them are. You're right. So, if you're going to have him in, it does need to be someone that's just ah swashbuckling on your head.
I just didn't like his line delivery and stuff. And I I don't necessarily think Paul Dano would have done a better job.
I I think I don't think Paul Dano is the man. I think I would cast him in a lot of things. Not this though.
Have um Paul Dano was the smaller mage, the magician.
Does mage mean magician?
Kind of.
Cool. Yes. I I think that that works. I think you can put Paul Dano as a Magician boy.
Yeah,
definitely. I definitely think that that works here
because honestly the guy who was I think it's Ben Schnetzer who by the way fantastic in Pride. Love that movie. Terrible here.
I thought he was all right.
Oh god. Awful.
What? What? I thought he was all right. God, we really disagree about this one, don't we? This is interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah. I thought he was terrible. But he wasn't he wasn't given anything interesting to do really.
I see I This is it. I I don't think any of the characters maybe Outside of Durotan, I maybe Durotan was given the most to do. Played by Toby Kebell.
I was going to ask you which one Toby Kebble was. He's done a lot of like weird mocap stuff, hasn't he?

(08:25):
Yeah. Well, yeah.
Some of the apes movies.
He was in I think two of the Planet of the Apes movies.
Yeah. He's after Terry Notary's job,
I think. So, who's also in this movie?
Yeah, of course he is.
Uh, he was I think he was also Kong King Kong in Kong Skull Island. I want to say
no, Toby Kebell was in Kong Skull. island but as a human.
But was he also the gorilla?
No, I think that was Terry Notary.
Was it?
I believe so.
Well, it was one of the two.
Yeah.
Yeah. Circus is a holiday.
I was going to say if circus is busy called Kebble or Nosery.
Do you reckon circus has just got like a monkey school and like people just come in and they're just all sort of throwing bananas at each other and jumping on the tables going?
That sounds freeing.
It does sound good, doesn't it?
Yeah.
Do you reckon Benedict come Batch has got a dragon school and they're all just sliding around the floor. Have you seen that video? Come batch. Oh, you have to watch that video.

(08:46):
This is a joke that needs context, I feel.
Um, Anson Mount was also considered. Who
is a bit bland as well?
I only really know him from that Star Trek show, I think. And the I know he was in that Marvel show which I didn't see. What was that called? The We Live on the Moon Now.
Huh?
Where Marvel and We Live on the Moon. Now,
there must be like multiple Marvel shows I've missed cuz this is not ringing any kind of bell.
Oh, what was he called? It was a thing anyway, but he was in that.
Okay.
Um, Anton Yelchin.
No, I think he was great as well.
RIP. Anthony Yin. I f******
such a good actor.
Amazing actor.
But again, would have been horribly miscast in this.
Again, maybe Tiny Wizard Boy
actually. Yeah. played a magician in uh Kirby Enthusiasm.
Yeah. So, he's got practice.
He's already a magician.
Yeah.
Yeah. I like that. Actually,

(09:07):
just cast everyone as a magician.
Yeah. Just replace Ben Schnetzer repeatedly.
Who should we cast in the uh Lowar role? Just cut the character.
Yeah. We don't need him.
You don't need him though. No,
you don't. If you're going to have the king, why do you also need this other character? Because the LowR character didn't do anything interesting. It had
I believe Lothar is from the games.
Okay. So, they had to have it in there,
I believe. So, don't quote me on that, but I think so.
Well, in that case, just whip out the king then,
but do something Yeah. and do something more interesting with Lothar. Don't have him just be like, "Ah, my son."
Yeah.
Oh, he was so bland. He was so insufferably bland.
I didn't actually mind what he did. I I I feel like if he had had more to do, I would have quite liked the character.
Okay.
He seemed uh I don't know, like an interesting character cuz he could go one of two ways. Like you could either be like a bad evil version of that character or you can be like a proper good stoic virtuous and I feel like he maybe it was in the dialogue he said that he hated his kid when it was born but I feel like there was some a little bit of nuance there
right
but yeah I mean I'm I am reaching a little bit I think it could have been way more fleshed out but I think that
I think you're affording this film more grace than it deserves
maybe but again I just go back to like there's just too too much going on on and it it's it's a frustrating one really because I feel like this could have been really really good.
Look, the fact that not a lot really happens. I mean, stuff happens obviously, but I think the thing I hate about this film is that it's not a film. It's half a film.

(09:28):
Yeah.
It's a setup. And it bombed because of hubris because they assumed, "Oh, there'll be loads of them. We'll at least be able to do a trilogy. So, let's set up this whole world and then leave them on a bit of a cliff. No, it was Fast X all over again.
Well, I that's a bit harsh.
I'm sitting in that cinema going, "Oh, it ends here. You didn't tell me there was another one."
Cast Vin Diesel as an orc
without makeup.
Yeah,
no CGI necessary. Get Vinnie Boy in.
I don't think I really considered putting this on the flop season, but I guess I could have.
What did it make?
Well, this is it. You see, really, cuz if you look at it on paper, You you said earlier budget was $160 million.
Yeah.
Box office was $440 million.
That's not a flop.
Something that grossed to almost half a billion dollars.
How is that a flop?
Now apparently apparently Right. So 160 million was the budget.
Yeah.
I believe the rule of thumb is you double it very roughly and to incorporate the marketing costs. So you're looking at 320 million there. But apparently they spent way more on marketing than you would think. and they had to grow somewhere around the 500 million mark to break even is what they said.
Okay.
But having said that, grossing 440 million, it was the highest grossing video game movie of all time when this came out. And remained so until another video game movie come out. Can you name it? Very recent.

(09:49):
Was it the Super Mario Brothers cartoon?
Yeah.
Really? That makes me sad.
So, this held the spot for the highest grossing video game movie of all time for about five or six years.
Wow.
So,
how is this not a flop then?
I It's weird, isn't it? Because they say it's a flop. They didn't make any more. I think that they could have made another one, you know, and it maybe would it would have done better, but
maybe Blizzard were just really unhappy with how it turned out or something and they yanked the rights away.
Maybe
that's interesting. I'd assumed it would have made far less than that.
I think it just from what they say, it just about broke even.
But on paper, you look at numbers. It did okay. Like what were you expecting it to make? I I suppose the reason that video games are adapted is because there's a built-in audience.
So, I'm amazed there hasn't been a GTA movie so far, but there will be at some point. But if you So, if I guess what studios and production companies are looking at are we soldund that they sold 100 million units of this game in 20 whatever. So, that means say half of those people going to go and watch it at the cinema. That's x amount of locked in people that were definitely going to go and see the movie. So, I guess that they just assume that they're going to be huge.
Yeah.
But also in 2016 when this came out there, I don't think there'd ever been a good video game movie.
No, probably not.
Like there there are ones that I enjoy and most of them are in this season, but good. No,
I don't know.
This was the highest grossing and I dare say might been the best one at at the point of this coming out.
Yeah, maybe

(10:10):
objectively.
Yeah. For all my negatives, it's watchable.
Yeah.
It's just unmemorable.
It's up against Alone in the Dark.
Yeah.
And House of the Dead 2.
Well, Alone in the Dark was Uve Bowl, wasn't it?
So was House of the Dead 2.
Oh, I thought he for some reason I thought he did House of the Dead one, but somebody else did House of the Dead 2.
Maybe they did. Maybe they did. And I just don't care enough to look it up. He was too busy trying to offer up people for a fight in a car park somewhere. Yeah. When they were putting it together.
I've got someone I've found someone that wants to fight him. It's a kangaroo.
Oh, brilliant. Point him in.
A bos kangaroo.
Yeah.
Excellent.
Kangaroo Jacks. Jerry Oonnell dresses a kangaroo.
You love that movie.
I do love that movie.
You're strange.
I know. I was really surprised when I found out that everyone hates that movie. I literally I've watched it probably once every two or three years since it came out. Love it. It kills me every time. And it was about 5 years ago I found out that I think it's when I got letter boxed and I looked up the scores. I was like, "Wow, everyone hates this movie. Why? It's so much fun."

(10:31):
People hate Joy.
They do.
And Kangaroos. Who is your favorite character?
Glen Close.
I forgot Glen Close was even in this.
Wow. Really?
No. I don't know if I have a favorite character. Really? Ask me again in 10 minutes. Do you have a favorite character.
Yeah,
got it.
Jurotan.
Why?
Because he was probably the most interesting of the characters that get a decent amount of screen time anyway.
Um, and I like that he was such a double bastard that even his tusks were pierced.
Yeah, I think I agree actually. I think he was definitely the most interesting character. I think he had the most to do.
Yeah,
I think he had the most to consider.
It felt like the stakes were a bit higher for him as well.
He had stakes.
Yeah. I think which which I think is my problem with a lot of the human characters. Like we kept being told that there were stakes,
but I couldn't muster up the ability to give a s***.
It's like the the human characters didn't really have decisions to make. It was like this is the information now they are going to do this.

(10:52):
Yeah.
Whereas Durotan felt like he had a real decision to make, a real do I go against my people because I know that they're doing the wrong thing. I've also got to keep my family safe. We're invading this land. That's wrong, isn't it? He definitely had the most interesting stuff to do, I think. So, I I think I I think I agree. And also, like I did enjoy that his role essentially getting into the last act was just to die.
Yeah.
Was just to like to be a sacrifice for the good for for good. Like to demonstrate to his people that we need to stand up for what's right. This guy is a is a bad guy. This this this bony horn ripped all magic guy, the baddie. Um, he had to demonstrate that he was not good. And he did that by doing the traditional fight thing. And he died. Like, he died. He sacrificed himself to demonstrate to everybody that what they were doing was wrong. And I assume that his family went on to to be alive still.
Well, Mrs. got killed.
Oh, did she?
Yeah, she ran away. That's But she put the baby in the river.
Oh, yeah. Of course, cuz the baby is his baby. Yeah.
And that's an important baby, isn't it?
Apparently.
Yeah.
But we'll never know because it's half a film
and it's got the soul of a deer.
Yeah. The life force of a deer.
Yeah. He was definitely the most interesting character. I don't think there's even really anyone that comes close to it. I did I did quite enjoy the villain actually of um the or the orc villain. I thought that he was sufficiently evil. There's not much there in terms of the reasons that he's doing it outside of I just want power.
He was sort of giving me um James L. Jones character from the Flight of Dragons. They have the same build as well.
But yeah, I think super interesting character, but a bit more two-dimensional than Durotan still.
Yeah, I I think I just liked showing how evil he is. Killing the deer, sucking the soul out of the human just for a little snack when he's having a little chat to his mates and just like going, "Oh, yeah. and putting some human soul in his mouth and the like that was that was quite freaky. I did enjoy
num num num num souls.
Yeah. Yummy. Yummy.
Yum.

(11:13):
Just have some f****** maltesas, man.
Yeah. Get break open a bag of crisps.
Yeah,
they must have crisps on Azeroth, right?
They must have.
They've definitely got potatoes.
Have they got potatoes?
They must. Do you not get a little bit pissed off that it's an incomplete story?
Um, incomplete how?
Well, it's Not disagreeing with you, but I'm just trying to remind myself.
It's left open-ended.
How does it I can't remember how it finishes. How does it finish?
Well, it finishes with people finding the baby in the river.
Yeah. Which is a cool Easter egg because people love this baby for some reason. And
I can't tell when you're being facicious or not.
I don't know what that means.
Okay.
So, I think the baby's important in the games or something,
right?
So, it's meant to be like This is why I thought it was a prequel because they love the charact the baby character, but the baby is not a baby in the thing. that people I'm not explaining this very well.
It's an important character.

(11:34):
Okay.
And it ends with the baby doing what?
Nothing. Just being like rescued.
Uh I don't Is that How is that?
It's just doing baby stuff.
That's okay to end like that, isn't it?
What's What's wrong with that?
I It just feels like it's an incomplete story. They don't defeat the the big evil. They don't like
they think they do defeat a big evil,
but nothing's super duper wrapped up. Look, maybe it's just a Mi problem. See, the way you're looking at me now, I'm guessing it's just a probably.
No, no, no, no. I I'm just I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm Okay, so we end with the baby and they and they hold up the baby and go, "Oh, look at this baby. We're going to make another movie." No, you're not. What happened before that that was incomplete? Cuz I feel like they closed the portal. They had the big battle with uh Foster. We haven't really spoken about Ben Foster, should we? I don't know. Maybe.
I mean, we should. Yeah, because this is our second Ben Foster movie
and our best Ben Foster movie.
No.
No. Correct. So, He has his showdown. There's the big showdown with the portal and then that all gets resolved. I think the baddie I can't remember what happens to him.
Well, the golem comes into play.
What's a golem?
The go the the the he was making the golem. Ben Foster was making the golem.
Oh, the statue thing.
Like the big rock monster thing,
right? Yes. Yeah. So, I'm struggling to think what was unresolved really.

(11:55):
I don't know. It just felt incomplete to me. Like Garona goes back to the orcs and
I don't know. No, it felt incomplete. It felt like an incomplete story.
But maybe that's just a bad read on it on my part.
No, no, no. I'm just I'm struggling to remember the end, I think.
Well, so did I. The first time I watched it.
You didn't remember any of it the first time? You did. You thought you hadn't seen it.
Oh, precisely. Like when I asked you would you watch this again, you didn't ask me, but my answer would have been probably, yeah, in another nine years when I've forgotten.
Yeah.
I think that I think that is this film's biggest sin actually is just that it's not very memorable.
There's so much promise there that it's annoying.
I suppose that I I suppose you're right. I didn't remember an awful lot about this film. Maybe some of the magic stuff. I did remember Glen Close was in it.
I've forgotten until you mentioned it about 20 minutes ago.
Yeah. So, it kind of left a huge impression of me, but I guess watching it for the podcast and and kind of trying to consider it as as well as I can, I did feel like it was it was all right. It was kind of passable as a movie. That's not the biggest praise of a movie.
That's not praise at all.
It's kind of like why bother? Like if I don't
I can think of much better use of 160 million.
Yeah, me too.
I think recast the whole thing. Put more of a heavy focal point on the orcs because they're just more interesting. Still have some human characters cuz you need conflict,
but just recast entirely on that side
and you've immediately got a better movie and spend a bit more money on the costume. I know you said you quite like them, but for some of the characters, I've genuinely seen better cosplay.
I I had no problem with how this movie looked at all. I thought it looked great. I'm I'm sure there was some CGI that didn't look great, but I didn't notice.

(12:16):
Most of the CGI was great. I think there's a couple of green screen moments that weren't excellent.
I didn't notice it. I'm sure you're right. But I I didn't see anything in it that I was like, "Oh, wow."
That really stuck out to me. I I just thought it looked pretty great from I was surprised actually how well the CGI
had aged. But yeah, when I say costumes and stuff, I'm I'm talking with specific reference to people like Garona, who I keep coming back to. She just had these weird plasticky sort of tusks. They looked like plastic because they probably were plastic.
Yeah.
Um but not only that, they made the actress harder to understand.
Like a lot of her speech sounded a bit muffled to me as a result. Um and they just like slapped some green paint on her. I don't know. She She's probably the most annoying to me. Then it's Lothar. But those are my biggest issues. I think some of the casting was horrible. I think the costumes were not great. But to balance that, the orcs looked excellent. The CGI was topnotch.
And like you said, like Kebell, he was fantastic.
Fantastic.
Like he's doing all of that acting. You could see that on the on Durotan. I think it was incredible.
Yeah. Yeah.
There's I think there's a lot to like about this film
there is that's what makes it a frustrating watch though.
I we agree about that. Like it I like I think I probably liked it a little bit more than you by the sounds of it.
But I say again didn't love it.
But I do think that there's stuff to enjoy about it. If I'd have played the games I probably would love it.
Like if they made this version of Gran Turismo then I'd probably be all over it. Make the cars good goodies and baddies.
I don't know. Maybe maybe they'll try again at some point. They'll defin definitely try again.
I think there's already something in the works.
I just hope they dedicate the proper resources to it because I think this needs like it needs to be an epic trilogy along the lines of like Lord of the Rings. You need a good I know you hate it, but like you need a good nine hours to dedicate to the to the lore of Warcraft. It's huge.
I I dis I don't agree with that. Like

(12:37):
or a TV show.
I think you could do what you need to do. I think you could make a movie. I think you can make one movie do what it needs to do in three hours. But it depends what you're doing. You can make a smaller story, I guess, and and make it two hours within this world, but it depends what you what depends what you're going to do, I guess.
But if it's a much smaller story, then you risk pissing off
well the fans.
Well, that's it. But that's the problem is you're trying to please everyone. I think 160 million budget for this. I think it worked. I I think it looks I think all the money is on screen apart from the costumes as you say, but like I've seen movies is with bigger budgets than this that look half as good.
Yeah, I'll agree with that.
And I think the 160 million was pretty well spent. It's like it's a lot of money. Let's not make Warcraft. Let's give that money to Cherry. But if you have to make a Warcraft, I think they did pretty well. Uh but there's not really any bigname actors in this. There's no one commanding huge salaries. Dominick Cooper probably did it for a chuppy chops and a and a pack of refreshers.
Glen Close was called in as a favor presumably.
Yeah, massive fan of Warcraft games. Maybe she was just a big David Bowie fan.
Maybe Cooper was like, "Oh, do you need a do you need a princess? Do you need a queen?
I know I know someone.
Call the misses."
Yeah, call the misses for a preacher reunion.
We haven't even mentioned Ruth Nagger.
No,
she's she's been so good in so many things that I've seen and she's nothing here.
She's nothing. She's wasted. She is pointless.
Mhm. I think Ben Foster was pretty wasted as well. I want full When you cast Ben Foster, I want Maximum unhinged.
Yeah.
Don't rain him in. Don't you dare.
Do you reckon they did rain him in?

(12:58):
Yeah.
There must be loads of stuff on a cutting room floor where he was just going absolutely crazy.
Yeah.
That's the movie I want to see.
Yeah. Yeah. It definitely would have been nice to see Ben Foster do a bit more. I guess I thought that that character could have been a bit more interesting than it than it was because he ultimately ended up being the main villain or or kind of
second fiddle main villain.
Yeah.
Like the the organizer. This is the guy that's let the orcs through and he's got the evil magic.
Yes.
For some for some reason. And he turns into a demon.
It's all to do with the fell. Weren't you listening?
Yeah. Cuz the fell's bad.
Yeah. But this is what I mean. Like there's so much information that it becomes boring cuz you can't possibly keep up with it and make sense of it unless you play the games.
So if you're like me, then you find yourself maybe tuning out a little bit.
Well, I I haven't played the games. I was I did feel that way for the first quarter of an hour, but then after that I just let it go and was like, look, I don't know any of this stuff.
Let the s*** wash over me.
They need to do this thing which is going to hurt them and they need to defend this thing and that's all you need to know really.
Like there's you don't need to
you don't need to know the particulars. Um I suppose maybe it would make it a bit more enjoyable if you do. Like I say, if I played the games, I probably would love it. But I felt like there was enough information for it to be okay. There were quite a few Easter eggs apparently in it about a post box and a wall of posters apparently.
Okay.
And um the architecture is is apparently quite big and imposing in the games. Like you've got huge columns and massive rooms and with the set design they were trying to imitate that. But the problem is that if you make a huge set you risk making the actors look tiny like tiny children your actors.

(13:19):
So there was there must have been compromised, a way to figure that out because they wanted it to look big but not too big. So, they must have spent quite a long time in in trying to figure out how to do that. And I I think it looked good. I like that throne room.
Oh, yeah. Look, I don't doubt that the the time and money was was definitely spent. I think they they spent like 20 months in post-production on this.
Well, I mean, yeah. I It's all It's all about the CGI, isn't it? Post. Yeah.
Yeah. But I do think that the way that they blended the the real sets and the CGI was pretty seamless. That the throne room reminded me of Masters of the Universe.
I knew you were going to say that.
Did you? The throne room in Masters of the I do love a throne room. I think
I think the throne room is my favorite room.
You must. Yeah.
Yeah. I I But I really liked that set design. It maybe would have been nice to spend a bit more time in there, but yeah. 20 months in post-production. That's a long time.
You wouldn't get that these days. They wouldn't stand for it.
You wouldn't. And that's why half the CGI looks like s***. Yeah.
Because we're not paying the artists. to do their job
or giving them enough time.
Well, exactly. But that's what I mean. Like you need okay, we've got a year where we need to make this look good.
No, it's do it in a month, sacrifice sleep.
Maybe this thinking about it even more detail now. Like 160 million seems cheap
or even 10 years ago
for what? Yeah. Like for what they had to do, they spent two years in post-prouction.
That's all of the post-production, all of the effects, artists, producers,
um accountants.
So they definitely had to skimp on the clothing.

(13:40):
Yeah.
And the weapons.
Yeah. There's there's a lot of a lot of time and effort went into this. And it shows. And it it does it does show. Yeah. You wouldn't get two years in posts these days.
Nowhere near.
But I think maybe I I wonder where that came from, whether it was Jones or Blizzard or or whatever. They just because it gets it's tricky because when you get to when you shoot a thing and you get to postproduction, ideally you've got a post-production budget, but often, you know, that can eaten into a little bit by overages that you get on the main shoot.
So, post-prouction does often suffer um for that reason. So, I reckon that they must have realized very early, it's very important that this looks good. The CGI has got to look pretty seamless. It's very important that Durotan and the York characters, all of the CGI characters look great because that's something that
is is good about the games apparently is the is the cinematic sequences in between the the gaming bits and how Incredible that looks. So, I'm guessing they had a lot to live up to and they must have just locked in like early days. Look, we must spend x amount of money, x amount of time in in post-prouction.
Yeah. Before we start wrapping up, I've got a question for you.
Um, you were quite taken with the griffin in the film.
Was I?
Um, we to we spoke about the griffin substantially. What?
I said it's a their car is a bird and you went a griffin. I went, "No, it's a bird with horse legs." And you said it's a Griffin. I mean, what's that?
Well, I I believe a griffin is um part eagle, part lion.
Okay.
So, my question to you is if you could create your own mount, which two animals would you mash together?
Create my own mount.
So, it's got to be big enough for me to sit on. Yeah.
But birds aren't that big.
You can't sit on a bird.
No.
So, I can make animal.

(14:01):
Presume. Presume you can bigate it somehow.
Ant.
I want an ant. I want to ride an ant like they do in Honey I Shrunk. and Ant-Man.
Do they do that in that? Yeah, sure. Do that. I'll have an ant, please.
Big ant
fly.
Ant and a fly.
Yeah.
Just a normal fly or brundle fly.
Yeah, Jeff. Make it Jeff Goblin. I want the bottom half of a fly so it can have wings, but I want the head of Jeff Goblin on it
and some ant stuff in there as well.
It's fine. What?
The mandibles of an ant.
What's the correct answer?
There isn't a answer. I was just curious.
I thought it was a trick question.
No, absolutely not a trick question. I was just very curious.
I wasn't expecting that. I I expect that I probably have a better answer later on when we've stopped recording.
Maybe. Yeah. But where's the fun in that?
Yeah. Where is the fun in that?
But yes. Um, one thing I will say um in this film's defense is it's made me want to watch Dungeons and Dragons Honor Among Thieves again.

(14:22):
Oh, yeah. I forgot that existed.
Yeah. I feel like that movie gave me a lot of what I was hoping. Walker afterward.
Yeah, that was all right.
It was a fun movie.
But then I I don't think
but you cast Chris Pine and Michelle Rodriguez and there's immediately more personality than Travis Fimmel and Paula Patton,
I suppose. So
anyway,
yes. So we have cometh to the end of our Warcraft discussion, Sarah, and we're going to move on next week to our third movie in the video game season.
I think you should have figured out how to say all of this in orc dialect, by the way.
Do they have a language?
They made up a language for the film. Yeah, I'm not learning that. I think I'd sooner learn Cllingon.
Okay.
Yeah. So, next week we are doing another video game movie. Surprising, I know. Shocking.
Uh, we're doing one that you're familiar with the game once again. It's a game that I have played a little bit but got very bored very quickly.
Oh, f***.
Oh, no. This is a new one. It's Until Dawn.
Until dawn. Until dawn.
And it's a first time watch for both of us.
Yeah.
But we've heard it's bad. I'm not looking forward to this.

(14:43):
Is Is it bad? I've Have you heard that it's bad?
I haven't heard a single positive review.
Oh, fair enough. Well, it's hopefully it's got Peter Stormare in it. You know the game.
I've played the game a few times. Yeah.
Okay. And it's one of these you choose your answer type things and what happens after that depends on the answers you give, right? So, there's a few ways that the game can go.
Yeah.
And you've played a few of them.
Mhm.
So, I wonder
I've had different outcomes. Yeah.
So, I wonder which one the film is going to reflect if Well, we'll find out, won't we?
Yeah.