Dissecting The Pitt With Tara Edwards

Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:03):
Welcome to side by side, a podcast where I Robert Kuang take you
inside conversations with artists,creatives, healers and warriors taking the
charge in their transformational story.Today's returning guest is writer, editor
and my dear friend, Tara Edwards. In thisepisode, we dive inside the hit television

(00:26):
medical drama The Pit and analyze thestorytelling elements that make the show
one of the television breakout hits of2025 you can find more side by side
episodes at side by sidepodcast.podbean.com, and if you're working
on a purpose driven writing project, I'veopened a few one on one coaching spots
this season. You can learn more or book adiscovery call at WWW dot Robert Kuang

(00:52):
home.com, okay, so two fans of medicaldramas are back, although I feel like you
are a bigger medical drama fan. I'm justmore definitely,

Tara Edwards (01:05):
yeah, definitely. I think you're a grays fan. And I'm a if it
involves doctors, I've probably seen someof it, though, ironically, I've not seen
scrubs. I don't like comedy. You

Robert Kuang (01:21):
know, that's your one blind spot is like, you probably haven't seen
scrubs, which I know is like people talkabout, and then there's that new sitcom,
but you're not a half hour person, andthat's okay.

Yeah, I really am not, unless it's anime. Um,

so we are here to talk about a new medical drama that I think a lot of
people it's gotten really popular, sinceit's being running from week to week, and
it's called the pit, and I think manylisteners probably have heard about it. We
do this thing, Tara and I, where, if ourschedule permits, we watch something like
Grey's Anatomy once a week or so. And thepit was sort of the latest one that you

(01:57):
pitched to me to be like, do you want tocheck this out? I mean, we, I know we both
did, but I got so hooked into it in a waythat I wasn't expecting. So I wanted to
talk about it. But you were like, Yeah,this is gonna be good. Well,

yeah. I mean, as as an OG Noah Wiley fan, I was like, Oh, I'm on
board. And then the pilot was so good. Soit just made sense to me,

the pilot was very good, which we'll get to. But maybe a little bit
of background. Noah Wiley is an actorfamously known from er and the pick kind
of has, like a relationship to ER. I don'tknow if you want to, kind of like discuss
it real quick. It's

really just that Noah Wiley was on both shows because technically, er
is suing. There is like a lawsuitsituation between er and the pit. So they
want

some of that money. They want some of that money. Yeah,

personally, I feel like the shows couldn't really be more different,
other than taking place in the emergencyroom, because that's one thing I think you
immediately were kind of getting your beerins around because you came from grays,
which is focused on surgical interns andsurgery department, whereas, er, kind of

(03:09):
is a mix of all departments and how theyrelate to emergency services. So yeah, the

show doesn't hold your hand with that, and I appreciate it. But what
happened was, like, early on, I really hadto, like, work fast to get my bearings
straight. Well, you were like, yep, homesweet home the ER department, you know
what I mean. And you were more ingrainedinto what was happening. Yeah, Noah Wiley
is kind of like, I think he may. He'sprobably like an executive producer, or at

(03:39):
least co producer, but he's really likeleading this production, and he has this
message about why he did it after, like,having a long acting hiatus, I believe he
came back, he said, particularly after thepandemic, and seeing what hospitals and
nurses and doctors had to go through, andthey wanted to make a show in response,

(04:00):
and Maybe also, like a little bit of a PSAfor how the medical professionals are
doing the past few years. So I thinkthat's kind of cool personally,

sort of Og Noah Wiley fans also remember that he is the bad guy in
enough that is besties with the abusivehusband. I forgot

about that, and I was like,

J Lo in that truck, and also teaches the little girl how to play
basketball. It's absolutely insane that Iremember that. Yeah,

I don't want to imagine him playing bad guys. I just want Noah Wiley
brooding hero trying to do the rightthing, kind of person, like, he's got
range, but like, here he's He's so good.So in your opinion, why do you think the
pit has been kind of described assomething that's very subversive for like
the traditional medical drama, likeprocedurals? Well,

one thing I will say immediately is that it. It does not lean
into melodrama at all. I think that, andthis is kind of Gray's Anatomy as like a
sort of cultural impact moment is thatgray has made people get used to seeing
like, feel good, medical stories like youcan probably count on maybe two hands,

(05:22):
maybe three hands of like, absolutelydevastating patient stories where the
patient actually died in grays, whereas Ifeel like in the PIDs, it really is a we
have no idea what's going to happen tothis patient, whether they make it through
their time in the ER, I can see this alsoin Chicago Med as well. That's also very

(05:45):
melodramatic, and the resident is alsopretty good, but I would but basically, I
would say it's leaning harshly away frommelodrama and the sense of like, oh, it's
such a sweet, heartwarming, heartfeltstory of like, people struggling with
these things, and you can feel good at theend, like it's very much like, this is

(06:10):
reality. This is America. This is how badit is. You must look into the void.

Yeah, reality check, I think is a good way to describe this show, as
opposed to, like, other forms of medicaldramas, and also, like, you know, police
legal procedurals as well. It's not thatthey don't have, like, really heavy
storylines, but they tend to have still anelement of wish fulfillment. And also,
like aspiration, like it's meant to beinspirational in some way. This show is

(06:38):
like, look, doctors and nurses arestruggling, and there are serious problems
that needs to be addressed, and it'sgotten 10 times 100 times worse since 2020
and so there's like this weird urgencywith this show, where they were like, we
have something to say. You just sort offeel that from the get go. Yeah,

it's kind of hyper realistic in that way that a lot of post 911 media
was not I'm sure that your partner hasmany thoughts about like media analysis of
like post 911 but if you're talking aboutthe sort of media landscape of post COVID,

(07:19):
I think This is kind of one of the firstpieces of media that I felt did not try to
bootstrap slash, melodrama, catharsis itsway through. I think is a very hyper
realistic view of everything. And I'mprobably just going to keep repeating that
word, hyper realistic, because one thingthat a lot of doctors themselves and also

(07:44):
medical professionals are just findingthemselves saying is that this show is one
of the most realistic depictions you'veever seen. Chest compressions actually
look painful, and you realize like, oh,you know if you are technically breaking
ribs a lot of the times because of howintense chest compressions are. And, you

(08:06):
know, they actually had a lot of trainingas actors to look and feel the part, as
opposed to like something like grays,where, you know, when they're rehearsing,
they do say things like medical, medical,instead of the actual terminology, yeah,

it was a shortcut they developed just to be like, This is where
medical stuff needs to put in. But thestoryline is really like, are they going
to get together or not? This is verygreat. And like, the patients are meant
to, like, be a metaphor for the what thedoctors are going through. This is not
quite like that. And there are a coupleother like elements that make it unique to

(08:45):
me. It's a 15 episode season, and it goesthrough what I what I think most people
consider the 24 structure, which is oneepisode is one hour, quote, unquote, in
real time, and every episode is an hourinside of a 15 hour shift at the emergency
room, like trauma center. At first, Iwasn't sure how I was going to feel about

(09:07):
it, because I don't have any strongfeelings with that structure. And I've
seen parts of 24 I didn't really see theconnection. There's that kind of, like, a
little bit of, like, gritty realism to it,but it really seemed to work. I remember,
like, a couple episodes in I was like, Ohmy God, by the end of this season, like,
they're just gonna be like, see youtomorrow, because everything you saw was
just one day.

Spoiler alert, we're probably gonna start getting to more
specific spoilers. Yeah, actually crazy tore watch the pilot, because at the
beginning of the episode of the pilot,she's Dr Collins is talking about her
pregnancy system symptoms, and then yourealize, oh, in five hours, she won't have
a baby anymore.

Spoiler alert, but that sounds melodramatic, if you like, pitch
it, but they did it in a way that I thinkwas just dramatically motivated, but also
felt super great. Of just like, oh, yeah,by the way. Like, women sometimes have,
like, miscarriages and they have to showup to work, yeah,

or they have to stay at work and have to work through whatever is going
on. You know, like, if I had to say therewas a similarity between, er, it's really
those social, cultural moments. Like, Iknow that grace has had its like issue
episodes, especially recently with boththe COVID season and also all of the

(10:27):
issues related to women's health andabortion rights. But I feel like the thing
that is sort of the pits calling to ER isthat er had a lot of like social cultural
commentary about poverty and racerelations, everyone has to use the ER.
There's no like, back door way out oflike, having to interact with your

(10:53):
preferred cultural group if you need touse emergency department in a hospital.
Like, obviously, there are, you know,hospitals that are considered to be a
little bit more, you know, used by richpeople, and they can, they have access to
things that other people don't. But youknow, if you get into a car crash and

(11:15):
you're unconscious, you're going to theER, and you're going to wake up there, and
you can't control that outcome.

The episode structure worked really well for me in terms of just
because it's so like, what you see is whatyou get, and they space it out. You know,
normies, like me or like us can reallytake in just how much these doctors and
nurses have to deal with in a way thatfeels very different from like Grey's
Anatomy, where you're not really seeingyou're not seeing them working from day to

(11:46):
day in this way. And time passes veryarbitrarily on other medical dramas as
well. And this one is just like thesecharacters will not get a break, and you
know it, no matter what they have to face,which is like a lot. And I think that's
why I like the structure for

sure. That hyper realism aspect really comes across when you do
this sort of hour by hour structure,because the audience doesn't get a break
either. And this is not to say that theshow is like super oppressive and makes
you tired experiencing it. I think theshow is still quite balanced. It does it,

(12:22):
does it in a way that I, I personallyreally appreciate. Because I think reality
is always so much more interesting to mewhen it's, you know, put in this like
space of trauma where you can experiencesomething you maybe never thought about,
right? It's like, I know we're in the eraof escapism, especially with the economy

(12:47):
going the way that it's going to go so oris going. So I know everyone is looking
for their next sort of fantasy escape, or,you know, sci fi escape, but I personally
always feel very attached to these sort ofhyper realistic views, because they are
the kind of cultural study you can'treally get elsewhere. You know, like the

(13:12):
pit kind of epitomizes that idea of likeTV is a way for society to learn about
itself in a lot of ways. Yeah,

and it's kind of a luxury to be able to sit with these characters,
because that's the other thing with like,I think movies can do that for sure,
especially franchises where you get superattached to the characters, despite the
show not being very melodramatic andfrilly with, like, juicy character
moments. You know what? I mean, it's justall taking place on the in the ER center,
there are some very endearing moments. Andlike, by the end, fans were like, I'm Team

(13:46):
this person. This is my favorite. Andlike, people were really rooting for these
characters. But it's not like they had todo anything special besides just showing
them working and having their characterinform their decisions. Yeah,

it's like the, I guess, cliched statement that you hear in like
writing school, the more specific acharacter becomes, the more universal they
become. And I think that happens in thepit where there there's something for
everyone, there's like, across the board,generational, uh, representation, because

(14:19):
Noah Wiley is obviously Gen X, like earlygen X. Okay, he's early gen x because he
was, he was born in like, 71 Listen,listen, listen, I have,

I have to remember around for a while,

I and I, and we're all so that also doesn't help, because we're
millennials. Are now entering our 40s. So,yeah, as a group. So you get that Gen X
era area, and then you get Gen Z as thesenewbie like doctors. And then you also get
all kinds of patients. You know, you getelderly patients. So, you know, as boomers

(14:58):
continue to age and Like. Aging care islike, important plot that is explored
through a lot of patients in this show.And then you also get kids like, Yeah, you
get to see like, their experience of like,dealing with these things.

We make this show sound maybe a little bit graphic, and I don't
know how to describe it. It's not thatit's like a horror movie or gory. It's
just showing what doctors have to dealwith. Yeah, it's

definitely not excessive gore. It's not like you're watching a saw
film. It's basically like you said whatwould happen if you were a doctor. These
are the things that you would see. Theseare the injuries you would be exposed to,
and

they just show what these people had to deal with, particularly at
the start of this season. Kind of a commontrope, I will say, for medical dramas, is
like the first day, the first shift for agroup of like young intern or student
doctors. They barely spend any timeestablishing that before you just have to
quickly get to see all of the characters.They briefly introduce their backgrounds,

(16:01):
which will come into play throughout theseason, and then it just, like, gets into
it. They just, like, start working. Do youwant to get into some of the character?
Maybe, like character analysisdiscussions.

I know a big thing for millennials is burnout, working yourself
to death, which is in contrast to, like,say, silent Gen slash boomers, where it
was very much like, work is your identity,therefore? Who are you without work?
Whereas, like now with millennials, we'rereally starting to analyze like, how can

(16:32):
you possibly be work? How can thatrepresent yourself if it's also silently
killing you? And we really see that in thecharacter arc of Noah Wiley's character,
Dr Robbie, who is essentially burning out.He's gone through the trauma of COVID 19,
which I still think as a society, we havestill not yet begun to truly grasp the

(16:57):
effects of that. Then also just theburnout of emotional labor. I know that
became like a pop side term everything isemotional labor. But if we're talking
about doctors and nurses, they're trulydoing the kind of worst kind of emotional
labor, because as Dr Robbie experiences,sometimes that means being on the

(17:23):
receiving end of a lot of hatred andagitation that has nothing to do with you,
which is very much the service industry ina nutshell, which is what emotional labor
came from. But like, I think you said itin the last episode, no, while he's
getting that in me,

yeah. I mean, oh, and quickly I did forget this one point. There
are some doctors, student doctors, who arestarting their first shift at the pilot.
Correct me if I'm wrong, because I haven'tre watched the season. So it's been a
minute since I've seen the earlierepisodes. But he sort of like, this is his
like, first official shift, trying to,like, recalibrate.

Yeah. I think, I think the implication is that he had a little break
because of an experience with losing hismentor during the COVID 19 pandemic, and

he had to treat his mentor specifically, yes, yeah. And and lost his
mentor, and he's coming back in the show.He's the head attending of the ER and he
oversees the entire, like, emergencydepartment. And yeah, you really get to
explore burnout PTSD,

just like severe emotional labor. Because not only is part of being a
doctor having to serve as patients, butyou're also, if you're a senior doctor. In
his case, you have to do with theemotional labor and service of the people
underneath you, and with everyone comingto you for these things, you can see how

(18:52):
easily one might find oneself having abreakdown mid shift. I definitely saw
myself in him, because I have many momentsduring one of my most stressful jobs,
which was reporting hard news, where,like, I'm tired and I can't take this
anymore,

just like the heaviness of what you're doing and what you're in
proximity to. So I think a lot of doctorsprobably relate to that. I think burnout
and certain other issues are quite commonfor doctors and medical professionals, and
they definitely go into that, startingwith Dr Robbie, you know, and Noah Wiley.
Me not knowing too much about him. I mean,he is so everyone's daddy issues are

(19:36):
coming up with this. Oh, I was like,Y'all, he is not MC steamy over here. Look
at the man. He's crumbling before oureyes. But I get it, you know.

And to me, I think, is a sign also, of where we've come as a
society, right? Is like when you're in the2000s everyone you know wants that sort of
dream. Perfect. Dr McDreamy, like, youknow, perfect hair and just, you know,
this perfectness, whereas, like now, we'remuch more attracted to and emotionally

(20:11):
attached to the fragile, like thefragility, and also, just like masculinity
that didn't need to be overly aggressive,which that does come up because one of the
main plots of the first season is a massshooting that is thought to have been

(20:31):
completed by a patient son who hadexpressed some very dark thoughts in a, I
guess, diary slash notebook about women.Noah Wiley's attractiveness as a
character, or doctor Robbie attractivenessas a character, kind of also says where we

(20:52):
are as a society in terms of, like, how weview what is attractive about men and
it's, it's this kind of, like, less Macho.I'm a neurosurgeon. I, you know, do risky
surgeries and come out on top. And it'smore so like he's not gonna make it. He's
having the worst day of his life.

He's not. And the show challenges him as well. I mean, through,
you know, different characters challenginghis point of view and him actually like
getting checked here and there. And youknow, with regards to the INCEL storyline,
the the teenager, the teenage boy,obviously the storyline brings up a lot of
discomfort. And I'm just like, where isthis going? Like, what is the message

(21:33):
here? But at the end, I appreciated thefact that Dr Robbie Noah Wiley's character
refused to dehumanize his boy, despite theclear indications that he is he could be a
threat, he could be a danger. And the showdid? I feel like both did not, um, shy
away from INCEL culture and some of thethings that's brewing, especially with the

(21:55):
younger population, but I did feel likethey dealt with this issue that could have
been extremely, like black and white andextreme in a way that ultimately was like
everyone is trying to reflect humanity toeach other. That's a tough needle to
thread. Like I would not feel comfortabletackling a INCEL storyline very easily.
And I feel like they did a proper job ofthat. Ultimately,

yeah, and I think what made it so successful is that you had him and
Dr McKay sort of butting heads over. Well,what to do about this kid? Essentially,
because you have a woman who is, you know,fiercely protective of women, fiercely
protective of patients, fiercelyprotective of, you know, those who need

(22:43):
protection, and then you have someone whois a man, an older man, and can understand
the the ideology of like a teenage boy,much better than her. So I think because
we got those conflict between those twocharacters, I think it allowed for that
humanity to be shown because we got,rather than everybody banding up against

(23:06):
this kid, we got, you know, Hey, there.This is like a real person's life that is
going to be deeply changed by beingintroduced into the system and the
carceral state. I liked how the showincorporated that aspect as well. A lot of
people don't realize how unfortunatelyinvolved police and the carceral state are

(23:29):
involved in hospitals these days.

Yeah, once they brought, I mean, they had the police and also just
security guards, you know in general, werethroughout the entire season, obviously at
an ER center. But once the mass shootingstoryline developed in the second half of
the season, the proximity to police tolike, I think they had, like, tactical
units, like the military came like, thisis their place of work. You know, people

(23:55):
have to go through so much, especially ondays when there's an emergency like this,
which is not super melodramatic, you know?And that's the other thing was, like it
felt it could have been kind of like theevent of the season, so to speak, which is
kind of a medical drama trope, yeah,

it's like mass shooting, mass casualty events, yeah, yeah. But it
was interesting to see doctors from othercountries react to that, because it is an
American only symptom. We are the onlycountry in the entire world that has this
mini mass shootings. So it was interestingto see that perspective. And just to

(24:31):
circle back to talking about Dr McKay andthe carceral state. Dr McKay has a ankle
bracelet on that becomes a problem. Itkeeps going off, and then the cops come to
arrest her, because in order to do her jobproperly, she had to disable it. I

was like, that ankle monitor, something's gonna happen. You
know,

it's like, mind you. Dr McKay comes off as this very sweet, non
threatening. A white woman, yeah, it'slike, it's a nice little subversion,
right? That the sort of toxic baby momcharacter who has issues with her father's
child, yeah, is a white woman who has anankle monitor.

It's like, in the kitchen, I think, waiting for half part of her shift.
And just like she's an interestingcharacter, I really found her endearing.
And her backstory, like you said, is thatshe kind of had a rough, like, earlier
life, and has, like, done some things thatshe regrets, made some mistakes, kind of a
colorful history with her ex, and, like,sheer custody, and then comes in, like the

(25:37):
ankle monitor, assuming there was somesort of like incident with all of that,
but they do set that up pretty early inthe season, where Dr Robbie shots off the
machines, the heart monitors that arebeeping because it's so like, over
stimulating for patients, families and forthe doctors too. When her ankle monitor
started malfunctioning and wouldn't stopbeeping, I was like, Oh, here we go. And I

(26:00):
thought for sure that was gonna be how herseason ended. It's

like, oh, she, she's, she's going to jail. You know what's funny? I
just thought about it. Maybe it wasn'tmalfunctioning. Maybe the reason why I
kept going off is because she was still atwork when she was supposed to have left
the hospital.

Oh, maybe some like, yeah, you meet the ex and stuff, they show up in
the hospital once that got taken care of.I wasn't sure what was happening with
that, so who knows. But then again, this

just goes back to how oppressive the carceral state is. Because
Why are we in a situation where doingovertime during a mass casualty events,
where she, like clear is saving humanlives. And like, fucking cops, bro. Like,
I

felt like this is slightly unbelievable still, like, she doesn't get
arrested at the end, after she after themass casualty incident, kind of like, dies
down, the cops come and they try to arresther. And the only reason they don't is
number one, I think the two cops superiorwas there, one of their cops got shot, and
so she, like, saved a cop's life. And Ithink that's the only reason they said,

(27:08):
we'll let you, will not arrest you. Yeah,we'll let you work this out tomorrow. I
was like, she's still gonna get arrested.I

think that's believable, because she's white. I think if she was
any other race, and also, if it wasn'tcoming from another white man, because,
remember, it was Dr Robbie talking to thecops about what she had just done. Like, I
think it was enough circumstances to whereI'm like, Okay. And you also remember,

(27:36):
like the town slash like the city is verymuch its own cultural aspect in going into
that as well. So I

Pittsburgh, yeah, it's only got some of that I don't know for some
reason, the rats. I was like, That's Pitt,yeah. Shout

out to the rats, the unsung heroes,

guys. That was a cultural moment. No white person reacted like their
world was ending when rats were runningaround. But every person of color was
like, I can save lives. I refuse to face arat. It was so good. I love that. Anyway.
Dr McKay, I like her personally, and she'ssimilar to, I would say, I'll introduce
another character. Dr Santos, she's one ofthe student doctors that shows up on her

(28:23):
first shift there, and they're both likecharacters I would describe as they're
very driven by trying to save people whofall through the system or fall through
the cracks. Would you agree with that? For

sure? I think Dr Santos, it like specifically, seems to be a character
that is the stereotype of what you imaginesomebody who says, I'm going to become a
doctor when I grow up, and then theyactually do it. She gives those vibes from
the moment she's there, and then over thecourse of the season, it's you realize,

(28:56):
like, Oh, something happened to you.You're you're working something out there,
trauma survivors often tend to supplementtheir experience by finding some way of
service to other survivors or other peoplewho have been victimized. So like it

changes the narrative for them, right? Yeah, of what could have been
Yeah, and they didn't. I hope they explorethat more in season two, because obviously
she reveals her backstory, but not to anyof the doctors, which, again, is hyper
realistic. You don't want to be revealingthat on your first shift. But we do get a
moment where we understand that she is asurvivor of sexual abuse, of child abuse,

(29:38):
like once they introduced that element. Ifelt like the character. I understood her.
She's never going to be everyone'sfavorite. She's kind of divisive, but I
get her character, and also like her typeas like someone who wanted to pursue
medicine, if that makes

sense. I also think like I'm kind of over the HEY. Discussion of
whether a character is likable or not.Yeah. I mean, we talk about characters we
did and didn't like in Grey's Anatomy allthe time, just as, like, a sort of off the
cuff, you know, yap session. But I thinkwhen we were talking about, like, actually

(30:15):
analyzing television and art, I don't careif the character is likable or not. What I
care is, is the character compelling? Arethey interesting? Do they keep me wanting
to see what happens to them? And that is100% the case in Santos is, Do I like her?
I could go either way. I think Iappreciate her as representation of, you

(30:38):
know, a trauma survivor working their shitout. And, you know, also a compelling
character, but I just also like, I thinkher learning the hard way is something
that I enjoy seeing in media, because Ifeel like we're in the era of a lot of
people learning the hard way. You didn'twant to learn the lesson when it was

(31:01):
presented to you in a very nice, easy way.So now you have to learn this the hard
way, and that's almost more compelling,because you really get to see characters
shine under pressure, or not make it atall. I think one thing we talked about as
we've been re watching grays is is thatwarning from Richard in that original

(31:23):
speech about how two people wouldn't evenmake it through the program? I think a lot
of people miss that aspect when they'relike, Oh, my favorite character is like,
gone. It's like, but she's also just like,a bad doctor. Like, at some point we have
to just accept, in reality, there are 100%people who go into the medical profession
who do not need to be there.

That's interesting. Yeah, no, I think Gray's being the one I'm most
familiar with. They absolutely keptdoctors around because they were like, fan
favorites or likable, not based on, like,how they were showing up at the hospital
or how they were as surgeons, whereas hereI feel like they're very much just like,
This is how a trauma survivor mightnavigate this space once they get

(32:08):
triggered, and also this is how they mightlike keep things from the like their
attendings and things like that. But also,at the end of the day, this is how they
might try to save lives. And it's supercomplicated. She has a couple moments that
I know people felt were morallyquestionable, breaking protocol, she
defies authority, all of which can be kindof like a bad karmic lesson coming maybe

(32:28):
in season two. Yeah, you know her strengthis that, because she's so hyper vigilant
and because she didn't grow up thinkingthe world was rainbows, she has great
instincts most of the time. She has reallygood intuition, and that can make for a
really valuable and good doctor. But yeah,I think she's another complicated
character, not unlike her counterpart forthis season, Dr Langdon.

Dr Langdon. My goodness. Dr Langdon is a funny one, because I feel
like when you first see him, you kind ofget this feeling because he is kind of
like the stereotypical, like, hotdreaming, yeah, that he is going to be
sold to you as such. But then immediatelyyou just get this, no, this guy's a piece

(33:16):
of shit, actually, like, in a lot of ways,

I early on in the first half, I found him really endearing,
particularly when he was so he was goodwith Dr King, right? With her
neurodivergence, that was about it. Ithink that was a one arc that really made
him endear to the viewer. Everything elsewas just like, Oh, he's like, kind of a
doctor that's constantly, like,compensating for something, right? And

(33:40):
then you find

and it's just like, you know, to me, I think this just goes back
to that realism, because I feel like ifsomeone was to be like, show me a senior
emergency medicine resident, they wouldpicture this guy, which is why I think
it's great that they ended up showinglike, you know, your perception of what

(34:06):
makes someone a good doctor, a competentdoctor, someone who's like, good at their
job, visually is contrasted with reality.That's always a good trope to see in TV
shows, because I feel like, as a society,we really need to get out of the habit of
believing just because someone looks thepart, that they are the part, you know.

(34:28):
You look at Dr Langdon, you think, Oh,he's the senior emergency resident because
he's, you know, great. And then yourealize he's on drugs. Girl.

Dr Santo suspects that he may have been stealing drugs from the ER
and from patients and throughout like theseason. You're not sure if she's just
like, got a thing against him because heyelled at her and they had conflict, or if
she her instincts are actually, I.Correct. And I think they played with,

(35:01):
like, likable doctors and unlikabledoctors, and also likable and unlikable
patients too, right? Trying to play withyour expectations. And I personally like
dramatically speaking, I love that,because I really was like, I don't know. I
really feel like I want Dr Santos to bewrong, for obvious reasons. At the same
time, Dr Langdon depicts an issue and hasstruggled something that's extremely

(35:25):
pervasive in the medical industry, whichis dealing with addiction, and it's a
difficult thing to talk about, because itcan come off like it's going to demonize
the entire field, or everyone really. Thisissue should be dealt with compassion. It
is treatable. It's a disease. This is,like a theme that was pretty pervasive
throughout the season, both in patients,but also with Dr Langdon, who ended on a

(35:47):
downer. I was rooting for you. I was like,everyone's flaws, rooting

for you. We're all rooting for you. How dare you? No. So they play.
That is Santos, right? So well and so,because it's like, Girl, what are you
talking about? Some damn caps. Youcouldn't get the cap off. Who cares?

So annoyed with her. And I was like, What are you on about? And once
it actually played out, I was like, oh,it's because I don't like her, yeah. But
you should still follow a medicalprofessionals, like, suspicions. And they
actually did do that. She, like, informedher superiors or the head nurse, and,
like, she tried to figure out the rightway to do it, but also was, like,

(36:27):
triggered on her first day, you know,trying to prove herself anyway. I just
find that to be, like, super richstorytelling and writing overall. Yeah,

it was really well done, like, subversion of expectations, because
you think this is going to be one ofthose, like, men in power versus lowly
woman, like, low on the totem pole, havingto decide between go with, you know, the
way things are, versus like, step out on alimb to do what is morally correct. But

(36:59):
it's so much more nuanced than that,because Santos actually has a background
from working in a pain clinic, so she'sactually highly trained to notice drug
seeking behaviors.

I love that, that their backstory and their training experience
actually inform all the characters.Similarly, Dr King has, what did she do?
She worked in the military or something,right? She worked at

a VA hospital, yeah, thank you. So she has a lot of experience with
patient care and sort of patientsensitivity, because she's worked with
veterans before, which are a very lots ofPTSD, yeah, highly specialized group of
patients with a lot of different issues.So Darger King is also a fan favorite, and

(37:46):
it makes total sense, because she's justso endearing and likable from the moment
she starts like smiling and saying, I'mreally excited to be here, guys.

Me, it was when she went outside just to take a Megan, the Sally,
and break Yes,

so it's like, not clear if she's on the spectrum or not, and

she's undiagnosed, which is interesting that they made that choice
that, like, her sister's diagnosed, butshe's sort of, like, not yet, maybe aware,
and we don't want to, like, make thatdecision for her. But I think that's
fairly common. So I was like, that'sinteresting. It's interesting.

You bring that up about the Undiagnosed aspect, because I think that
is a little bit of a social culturalcommentary about how a lot of 20s and 30s
adult women go long undiagnosed becausethey are able to conform to society's
rigorous standards of human behavior in away that boys or like men would not be

(38:48):
subjected to that same standard, right?It's like girls are expected to be a
little bit eccentric or whatever, or, youknow, in her case, she's super high
functioning, so nobody would ever say alittle she's a little off. But I think the
moment when she goes outside and comfortsherself with the Megan thee stallion song,

(39:10):
it's very much like, if you've seenautistic people, you know, oh, she's she's
stimming Girl.

Girl, for a second, I love her. She's so sweet. And, like, also, um,
yeah, this er is particularly filled with,like, skilled doctors, not that, like, I
can't speak on this expertly, but like,she was a great doctor, and they all had,
like, their shining moments too. I feltlike every doctor and many of the nurses,
I would like to say, as well, like, reallyhad their moments throughout the season to

(39:39):
shine.

I did see some criticisms that, like, the only unrealistic thing
about the pit is how competent everyoneseems. It's like they just which is so
real when you think about a show likeGrace, where, like, people are getting
fired, somebody is getting fired. Hey. If

you want to see doctors getting away with the most insane stunts,
watch grace, please. That's really whereit's at. The

doctors, even the newbies, don't really make a ton of mistakes, like,
even when they're drilled on, you know,things, hey, not knowing the answer in
that situation would have been totallyfine, because you're not, you know, in
charge. It's still, they're all still verycompetent, but poor Whitaker, yeah.

(40:29):
Whitaker, by far, has the worst shift ofthe new the student group. He is
characterized as a sort of Midwestern farmboy in the big city for the first time,
very fresh out of water, or fish out ofwater. Storyline, he gets peed on by a

(40:49):
patient who is going through some kind oflike mental episode. He also ends up
saving them for the rats, so you know. Andhe has a incident with a patient that dies
from heart complications that he didn'tcatch in time.

Oh, yeah. So another medical trope, I mean, you know, it's bound to
happen. Storyline wise, he was like theguy on the first day, the first one to
lose a patient, and all of that. VeryGeorge O'Malley, but better,

yes. So the thing we're gonna talk about, like how to make a kind
of goofy character likable versus like, orrather, not likable, but more compelling.
It's like George is the sort of like, hardwork, equal success guy in gray is it's
like he underdog. Yeah, it's like, if youjust work hard enough, you'll get there

(41:46):
and you'll make up for any sort of lack oftalent. But ultimately, what makes him
uncompelling as a character is that thereis no like 3/3 dimension to that that
becomes his entire like being the underdogbecomes his entire personality. It'll it
allows him to absolve himself ofresponsibility for so many situations,

(42:11):
which makes him uncompelling, because heends up not changing a lot. He's the same
George that he is at the beginning ofseason one, that he is by the time he gets
hit by the bus, whereas, like, I feel likeWhitaker grows immensely in his first
shift, going from like, kind of green andsort of awkward and not really knowing

(42:31):
what's going on to being a lot moreconfident and able and capable and, you
know, believing in himself a lot more bythe end of the shift.

I mean, they've already done a better job, I think, characterizing all
the doctors again in a way where it's justlike all between the medicine and what you
see is what you get, just amazing skill interms of writing. But Whitaker, I think
they introduced the fact that he probablyleft an Amish community, and so culturally
speaking, he is also navigating in a fishout of water, or a fish out of water type

(43:03):
way, yeah, that I think is, like, veryendearing to him, and it makes the
character, like, really interesting,because he wants to pursue medicine. So,
yeah, he's a, he's like, a kind of akooky, quirky character that I think is
like endearing and that, like sociallyawkward way, similar to Dr King. I want to
get to the night shift eventually. But isthere any other like, day shift doctors

(43:24):
you want to mention? Dr Mohan is amazing.The women of color, there are a couple
like

Collins, Dr Mohan, just, like, completely so competent, yeah, just
so good. Javadi. I think I want to mentionJavadi. And then I talk about nurse, Dana.
Ooh, okay, yeah, Giovanni is, I think shewas really important for representation
of, like, the precocious high achievingadult who gets into or high achieving

(43:50):
child who gets into an adult situation andis forced to reconcile that, like, all
that brain power does not equal, you know,you know maturity, like, there are some
things that are just going to take time. Ilike that being something the show dives
into, because it's definitely a culturalphenomenon. Like, I do think a lot of kids

(44:13):
grow up, myself included, that their likeintelligence will get through through any
situation only to realize, like, realitycheck here, it's often not gonna work,
like the perfect simulation in your mind,and yeah, we get to see her navigating,
like being 19 years old, in a jobdominated by people in their late 20s and

(44:38):
30s,

between the three like first day shift doctors, so Santos, Whitaker and
Javadi. I think my favorite was probablyJavadi. She has that interesting. She's
like the Nepo doctor, right? So that'slike, one thing that I think is fairly
common for for lots of doctors and medicalfamilies, but then, like, her mom works at
the hospital. Which I think is veryinteresting. And then my favorite part

(45:02):
about her is seeing a character like her.I think she's like, under 21 right? Yeah,
she's 19. Yeah, she's 19. Crazy, ateenager. Wow. I have to actually let
myself sit with that for a second. Butthink of everything she had to deal with
on the other side, she's like, Baby, Ihave a crush on a guy. Do you know what I
mean? And she's like, a little girl, like,yeah, and it's just it, I don't know. It

(45:24):
did something to me to be like. The thingsthat these people have to navigate are
like, so out of the realms of normal formost people, and then they have to come
back out into the real world. I mean,there's that whole crush storyline, which
I thought was

hilarious. Yes, that was a really nice way to balance all of the
bleakness of like dealing with traumapatients is that, like Giovanni is 19, she
thinks one of the nurses is cute and isfailing miserably at indicating to him
that she is interested in himromantically. She's

just like, overly enthusiastic whenever he's around. Again,
it's just like, so cringe worthy in thatrelatable way. So, yes, really good
writing on a show like Grace, normally,this is like, the arc that they would
focus on. You know what happened thatwould

have been, like, a whole episode would have been about, like, your
body trying to get the attention of thismale nurse, but it happens in the
background, and by the end of the season,you can tell that she's learned a lot
about herself through this first shift.And also we've learned that again, that

(46:36):
whole like, just because you have all ofthe like, smarts and intelligence, and you
know you're a prodigy and you'reprecocious does not mean that you are
necessarily 100% equipped to deal with thechaos of the ER, speaking of chaos of the
ER, nurse, Dana, first of all, I reallylove how this show portrays nurses,

(46:59):
because we often do forget about howimportant nurses are in the medical
fields. I think every good doctor knowsand talks about how without nurses, the
entire system would fall apart and chargenurse. Dana experiences something that a
lot of people would think, Oh, thatdoesn't happen, but it does where she

(47:23):
literally gets attacked by a patientbecause he's mad because he couldn't get
treated because

the way, it has been so long, yeah, and then he basically socks
her. And they have a line with all thenurses where, just like this again, like,
yeah, basically they say every one of themhave been assaulted.

Yes. It becomes a situation where like this is one of those social,
cultural moments where the reality is thatthe reason why hospital security exists
and why you need this sort of presence oflike people to protect these doctors is
because there are a lot of people whowould straight up just attack innocent

(48:02):
nurses because she took a smoke break inbetween seeing hundreds of patients,
organizing all of these patients andDoctor schedules, trying to make sure
everyone stays alive, trying to figureout, you know, what's going on, dealing
with emotional labor. She's the chargenurse, so she is only second to Dr Robbie

(48:23):
in terms of, like, being in charge ofthings in the ER, and yes, I think she she
decides at the end of the shift that she'slike, not coming back ever, which kind of
insert that like burnout thing. Because Ido know that a lot of nurses and doctors
left after the COVID pandemic becauseafter the trauma of just seeing all that

(48:47):
death, but also the treatment by societyand the lay persons like I know Grace has
an episode where you know, they have thepatient who thinks that COVID is a hoax,
and then You have like the anti masker inthe pit as well the kind of degradation
and dehumanization offered to nurses whilethey're literally saving lives. Girl, I

(49:14):
understand they need you, but if you just,if you just said, Fuck this, I'm out. I
can't blame you, because what the hell I

do think the pit is maybe a little bit aspirational about the medical
field in the end, like I do want to saythat it's very inspiring, but it's very
like the sliver of hope each of thesecharacters get to have is their own
resilience, yeah? And wanting to do theright thing. There's no like magic
solution, yeah?

Ever the catharsis that often happens in western dramatic
structure, whether you want to or not,that happens in this show comes from their
resilience. As you know, characters. Ithas nothing to do with like, okay, we're
putting it all on a like, nice, prettybow, like we survived the crazy. Easiest

(50:00):
shift ever, and we're all having drinks inthe park, and we're all happy go lucky.
It's we're taking stock in like, somecrazy ass shit just happened to us, and I
have no idea how I'm gonna deal with this,but I'm still here.

Yeah. And that's how the last episode, which is sort of like a calm
down episode, after like, a series ofdealing with the mass casualty the end
with just the doctors, like, grabbing aquick drink together and, like, that's,
that's the win. The win is like, Oh, theday didn't defeat them, yeah. And so they
get to, they can choose to work anotherday, which is, again, just both kind of

(50:37):
inspiring, but they don't want to make itsound like becoming a doctor is in any way
easy or relaxing, or that you're not gonnaget hurt make mistakes, yeah, but it's
also inspiring, and in that sense, I kindof appreciate that amongst the sea of
medical shows. I wanted to mentionquickly, Dr Mohan, her arc was pretty

(50:59):
interesting, mostly because of her focusin kind of dealing with women of color,
racism, discrimination, super interesting,super important, but also the fact that
they could not make her look tired, likethey tried to make her look bad. And I was
like, girl, you need to go home becauseyour skin looks flawless as you're like,

(51:21):
getting a high after saving lives, youneed to go home like,

I think Dr mohan's contrasting character is Dr Collins,
right? It's like they're kind of foils ofeach other, in the sense that Dr Mohan is
how you are when you're still fresh andstill new and everything is like, still
working out, and you're still learning.And then Dr Collins is like, this is hell.

(51:47):
I'm going home.

Dr Collins is the nice shift No. Dr

Collins is the senior resident that was dating Dr Robbie before,
and it has the miscarriage during hershifts. This is all ongoing home. Kudos

for all of those doctors, Collins, Mohan, specifically Javadi. They
had a couple like, in my opinion, likewomen moments, you know that? You know, I
get, I get emotional with that, but it'sjust like, is nice. There are just a
couple moments of like, woman of color,women gathering together to help someone,
to help another woman. It's just nice. Youknow, Night Shift doing it quickly. Talk

(52:29):
about night shift, because, like, that'sone of the funniest thing they do this
season.

So in contrast to the day shift, that all kinds of seems like
they're just barely holding on by athread, just trying to get through like,
the next patient, the next like thing.Night Shift comes in and they're just
like, we're on we're ready to go. We haveJack Abbott, who is the senior doctor on

(52:56):
the night shift. He just casually revealsthat he's an amputee, and they don't make
a big deal about it, which was reallynice, because, yeah, people loved his
depiction. I think it when displayingdisabled characters, there is a tendency
to make their entire personality abouttheir struggles with a disability. And

(53:19):
instead, this guy is a fucking badass. Hecomes in, he does all of these crazy like
thinking on his feet, like moments oftreating patients he is. He also saves
Robbie's life, like, because you're not,not going to tell me that he didn't go up
to that roof with some thoughts,

yeah, they capped that at the beginning of the show, which I kind of
forgot about, actually, with the end ofRobbie and Dr Abbott standing on the
rooftop of the hospital together, justtalking about all the things they have to
deal with and life and everything. Lovethat guy, he's portrayed as also having a
military background,

correct? Yes, I think he's an amputee because he was like, deployed
or deployed, and he has moments where hehe applies medicine that is specifically
from being in the military, which militaryis a lot more quick and dirty as and

make it up as you go. Very

much like we need to do whatever we can to save the patients. So
here we go.

Love that, love that flavor of medicine kind of reminds me of like
Owen in a good way, and the night shift ingeneral, they have this joke, and I've
heard this when I did like caregivingtraining and everything, which is like,
night shift is a little bit different.They're the people who choose to do the
night shift are a little bit kookier. Andthey introduce her name, Dr Ellis, and

(54:55):
then the Asian guy, I can't Yes,

Dr Ellis and Dr Shin Yeah. Dr Shin, okay. Dr Shin is hilarious, as he
just triages but hundreds hundreds ofpatients that are coming in from this mass
casualty event of people being shot at amusic on surface. Yeah, yeah. Robbie's

(55:24):
like, Are you sure you're good? You'resure you're good. And Doctor Shin is just
like, bruh, we're gonna be fine.

He's a bro doctor. He's like, he's got, like, a, if a doctor was
like, a surfer dude, he's he's chill.

I will be really interested to see if that character ever has
something that actually phases him? Heseems like a very like, straightforward,
unmovable, unshakable guy. And I loveseeing those characters get pushed to
their limits, because it's always like, isthis going to be the thing that makes you
have an emotional response?

Yeah, because not all the doctors necessarily, like, it's not like
you find out, like, Oh, here's their like,secret baggage, right? Some of them do,
but some of them are just, like, reallygreat, interesting characters. And he was
one of them, just because he contrasted sowell with Dr Robbie in particular, who was
like, Are you good? And he was like, Yeah,this is how I keep calm.

Yeah. It's like, the perfect example of, like, a person who has never
been through like, a truly traumaticevent, versus someone who's like, entire
like, yeah, just childhood trauma. Youknow, that's probably why he's chill. I
wouldn't be surprised if later we findout, like, he's had the most traumatic
childhood ever. And so now he's like,nothing can phase me, because that

would actually be interesting, yeah? Because I could also
see him being like, Yeah, I'm a doctorbecause I got, like, really good grades,
not because my dad died. You know what Imean? Like,

yeah, I'm a doctor because it was the easiest way to get out of the
foster care system,

right? And you're like, oh shit. But like, you know, similarly Dr
Ellis, we don't really know her backstory.She was just quickly became a fan
favorite, because I think queer women

loved her. Oh yes, the lesbians were like, being down for

and they don't even confirm that, because they don't, they don't do
all that, like flirting and everything,like, we don't really know, but she's just
got an aura,

so we do know that there was some kind of queer love undertones with Dr
Santos and one of the surgical residentsbefore she said, Don't tell me Nothing,
because I don't want to be involved, whichis now my approach to all workplace drama,
which is nothing because I don't want tobe involved. Very Bailey move, quite
frankly, yeah, it's like, why are youtelling me this? Do not tell me. So, I

(57:53):
think people are probably picking up onthat. Santos might be a little bit, you
know, one of the girls so and also thereis that sort of like moment where we
finally get Santos finally being pushed bysomeone in a way that is constructive.

(58:14):
Because, you know, you realize, likeLangdon is pushing her because he is also
compensating, and knows that she knowswhat he's up to, whereas, like Dr Ellis is
pushing her because she wants her to be abetter doctor. And I think that makes
their interactions a lot more compelling,or not compelling, but just like easy to

(58:37):
watch, because, you know, it's notnefarious, right? You know, it's not
coming from a selfish place, and Ipersonally love when that happens,
because, again, it's just hubris. I can'tstand hubris in people. It's like, I
personally will always err on the side oflike it's much better to admit you don't
know something than to pretend to know andpretend you have all the answers. So that

(59:01):
moment when Dr Ellis just tells her, like,you're pretty tired, huh? Your patients
don't give a shit, yeah, yeah.

And I think, like, I love that moment for her, because she's not
trying to be a bitch. She's just like,this is the patient we're working on. We
need to focus on this. And you've had along day, you need to pull yourself
together. And I totally get that. And shewas kind of a badass, too, when she
entered very interesting choice, by theway, to do like, I thought maybe they were
gonna end on like, 12 episodes, becauseit's not that uncommon to have a 12 hour

(59:32):
shift at a hospital.

And also a season order. I was under the impression that a season
order is usually 12 episodes,

and I was like, that's an interesting episode order account. And
they made this very interesting choice,structurally, to me, where, like, the show
goes into the night shift, so you havethese new doctors coming in. Also, like,
you're seeing doctors having to catch up,you know, as they enter, like, they don't
have time to, like, drink their soda.There's a shooting that just happened,
right? And also. Just like juxtaposing,like, what's the military doctor, he like,

(01:00:03):
comes back, grab it, yeah? Dr, Abbottclocked out in episode one, I had a clock
back. Ed, like, yeah. By episode like, 10or episode 10, because there was, like, a
huge emergency and all of that, and again,all of that, just, like, just informed the
storytelling even more. It wasinteresting. I don't think I've ever seen

(01:00:24):
something like that. I'm really excited tosee what kind of story they tell in season
two.

Tara Edwards (01:00:30):
Yeah. And honestly, I think I am happy to be more on the side of the
focusing on the medicine doctors. I thinksomething that, I think medical shows kind
of fall in a trap a lot of the times, isgetting too caught up in to making patient
story lines compelling. Like, yeah, forexample, you know, Denny's whole thing in

(01:00:55):
uh, grays is one. There's, like, a veryfamous er episode 20 it's it does a 24
hour shift where you see Noah Wiley'scharacter and his counterpart on the night
shifts treat the same patient over that 24hours. So the episode is more is focused
on that patient's experience of 24 hoursin the hospital. Oh, okay, yeah, that's

(01:01:18):
cool. And that has just been done so oftenthat I love that the show is focusing more
on the doctor's experience of actuallyworking. It's like, when you hear medical
drama procedural, you think, Oh, ofcourse, it's about the hospital, but it's
like, I do often feel like patient storiesbecome a little bit of a highlight or a

(01:01:42):
cop out, whereas, like, here the patientsare important, but they aren't used as,
like lesson vehicles for characterdevelopment as much as just environment
is.

Robert Kuang (01:01:56):
Yeah, they're not just like symbols, right for like, these different
themes and everything. And I think theydid that also with, like the hospital
admin, where, like, it could have beenvery easy to demonize that character, but
it was just to establish what thesedoctors have to deal with, because you saw
like the press, the cops, the military,the admin, the patients, the family,

(01:02:18):
seeing all and then also, like they haveto deal with each other, like Dana had to
do so much emotional labor for these damndoctors. I was like, Girl justice for
Dana, honestly at the end of season one,yes, justice for Dana, they're at work. So
imagine having to deal with all thesedifferent elements when they're just
trying to do their work, and the work issaving lives. You know, as a viewer, it

(01:02:40):
makes me be like, This is crazy that theyhave to deal with all of this, and also,
for sure, it can be a negative on negativeimpact on patient care, right? Yeah. So,
like, there are valid criticisms of themedical system and the medical industry,
but I feel like this show is, like,definitely addressing some of it,
especially with, like, worker shortage,but it's also being like, all of this is

(01:03:03):
important, because all of these charactersare trying to save lives, like, that's the
one thing that they all have in common.Yeah, I love that.

It makes the show much more impactful emotionally, because they're all
kind of working towards that same commongoal that feels greater than themselves,
right? It's like there are many aworkplace drama you'll never feel the same
way you feel about the pit for like, acorporate business structure, right?

(01:03:36):
Because it's like at the end of the day,they're just making ads, they're just
marketing. They're just like these things.They matter to these characters,
obviously, but it's not, it's never gonnahave that same like impact of like, they
just saved 100 people, yeah?

And we were able to do that math too. I was just like, yeah, that was
only one episode, and they dropped anumber. They well over 100 they triaged
100 patients, uh, victims from theshooting alone, and that was on top of all
of the patients I had dealt with earlierin the day already. So like, again, the
show just makes you, like, reallyremember, but also, like, experience what

(01:04:14):
they have to go through in a way that I'venever really seen in a medical drama
before. Yeah,

one of Dr Robbie's more impressive scenes is when he says to his,
I guess stepson, slash kind of formerstepson, because he's not really his
stepson anymore. I'm going to remember allthe patients I lost well after you've
forgotten that you lost, which

I was like, you know, I know everyone's been through a lot, but that is
fair, because that kid I could not

like in that moment, it's so understandable, but it's also like, you
little bitch,

yeah, again, kudos to like the the writing overall, because, like,
had that. Reaction with him, but also hadthat here and there with some of the
patients and and family members inparticular. It's not that you don't
understand why they're being in anasshole, yeah, and why they're chewing
people out. And that's partially whatmakes this show so gripping, is like I got

(01:05:17):
so annoyed with certain family members,but then they would honor why they're
doing all of that, yeah, by like, Ihaven't I have to say goodbye to my dad,
by the way, while all of these charactersare doing all those things, and they like,
let you sit with that. Oh, so good.

Yeah, it's like it, what makes it so emotionally gripping is that
both characters are right. It is right.Yes, yep, you feel betrayed and overly
stricken by grief because your girlfriendwas literally just shot to death next to
you and your you know, image of thisperfect father figure could not save her,

(01:05:59):
but Robbie's also right? Like, in 20years, you probably won't even you know,
you'll probably think about her, but itwon't be the same sting as like knowing
that he lost a patient after doingeverything he absolutely could have in the
moment to save her with limited resources.Because that's the other thing people

(01:06:22):
don't realize just how like cooked we areas a society when it comes to the medical
industry. Like, he

definitely represented that, especially with the anti Vaxxer mom, there
are a couple times where he said this tohis son as well, where my experience will
never be like yours, because I am a doctorand you're not. And like, there's a
difference, you know what I mean? Andlike, this show made you understand why it
is important to, you know, basically, torespect doctors opinions as well as much

(01:06:52):
as there are criticisms. Basically

the idea is, like to treat them with a level of humanity that you may
usually not because

you're dealing with the worst of your life or whatever. Yeah, for
sure, it's like,

I think something I mentioned a little bit because it came up
with the implications of, like, fat phobiathat Dr McKay may have used in her initial
understanding of a patient's symptoms, isthat, like, it is valid for a lot of
groups of people to be highly suspiciousof doctors because they do have biases.

(01:07:29):
They are not perfect. They do have blindspots, like Lang pins. Blind Spot was
autism

immediately and he didn't. And the chronic pain patient, right? Black
woman, yeah,

but at the same time, it's like, then you see the situation with the
anti Vaxxer, and you're like, She'skilling her son by having this sort of,
you know, suspicion. So how do you, youknow, grapple with those situations where
people are both right? And I think that'swhat makes it compelling, yeah,

because, like, ultimately taking out the anti vaccine aspect of it,
she has a right as the parent, to be apart of the decision making, exactly
right? You can't take that away fromfamily members, right? So it's tough.
That's why, that's what makes this sogripping and like it tucks at your
heartstrings, even the characters thatyou're just like you're so frustrated

(01:08:19):
with, you understand their frustration,because we would, we might be frustrated,
like we might be in their situation andreacting in somewhat similar ways. Right?
Are there any other things that you wantto put on the table before we wrap up?

Oh, I just wanted to mention that, like the contrast between Dr Robbie
and Dr King in their treatment of the antivaccine mom is a really good like, study
of how to deal with those kinds ofpatients. Because, obviously, because
Robbie is, like, dealing with all of thatthe end

this close to having a full breakdown,

yeah, well, he'd already had one. It was just going to continue to get
worse. And then you have poor Dr King, whohas like, gone through so much in the
past, like 10 hours, and she still managedto, like, give grace to this patient's
mother, who is she could see her humanityin that moment. It's like she's just a

(01:09:18):
scared mother who doesn't understand whatshe doesn't understand, which pisses me
off, like I did like that little contrast,because Robbie is like, I'm gonna show
this guy what could happen to his kid bybreaking protocol and literally showing
him dead bodies.

That was wrong of Dr Robbie, let me just be clear

and fired. But also we get that nice contrast of like, Dr Shin and Dr
Ellis and Dr King being like, sometimesyou do have to do that work of being non
judgmental towards Yeah, people. That's.Because, because

it can, ultimately, I do think probably it can lead to better
outcomes on average. Yeah,

you could say Dr Robbie was right in the end, because the husband did
listen to him after that. But yeah,

it's funny. You pointed out Dr King's like the way she worked that
room. I hadn't thought about that. Butyeah, there are different ways to have
this conversation where she's just like, Idon't know. She was just being with that
mother's like, stress and anger and doingher job, and then she's like, Yeah, we're
done. We won't do this again. You're good.And like, the show has a couple of moments
where it's like, certain things in life donot get wrapped up in a neat little

(01:10:36):
package. Yeah, this patient, couple otherpatients, they just like, let them go
because there's nothing more they coulddo. Like the trafficking patient, yeah?
And they have storylines where just like,like, shit happens and like, they have to
carry on, you know, they can't saveeverybody. And they say that a couple
times, yeah,

yeah, for sure. It's like, like, the one addict patient as well.

Oh yeah, yeah, the white guy, right? Yeah.

Basically they're like, you can get treatment and, yeah,

any other things you want to shout out before we wrap? Um, can't

wait for season two. Really great show. I loved all of the women,
especially rooting for Dr King, DrCollins, and I really still hope that Dr
Collins and Dr Robbie get back together.Yeah,

I'm very interested to see I mean, they do have, like, planted seeds,
right? They definitely didn't want todistract you, but, like, the fans were
eating that shit up, so, like, they'recoming back for season two, and they did
make a couple no's. I'm curious to seewhat they do. If they do the same number
of episodes, are they gonna have like,like so like, a different shift? Again, a

(01:11:47):
running joke that I think a lot of peopleare making is they should do a spin off
called night shift, the pit cool nightshift. They

could do 24 episodes where we get to see the start of the day shift
into night shift, into the day shift,coming back in again. It's

kind of perfect. It's one set. It's one giant set. They have a nice
little machine, and they're doing a goodjob with like, the stories they're trying
to tell. So I I hope this brings back,give us some sliver of joys here and there
in these uncertain times.

I know some for some people, their comfort shows involve like, you
know, high fantasy, just completelyescaping the day to day reality. But for
me, I love the catharsis of, like, seeingpeople like me experiencing the things I'm
experiencing, and being like, hell no, I'mgoing home because I'm just like, that's

(01:12:40):
valid. That's

real. I think you would be. You would befriend like, dr, Abbott, who?
What was he lying? Where he's like, thedarkness agrees with me.

Yes, the darkness. I'm like, listen, at some point we need to address,
as a society, how we force everyone to beon this, like, daytime schedule, one day,
one day.

It's like, you Abbott and Dr Shin, who like drinks soda chronically,
yeah. Okay, well, thank you for taking me,being with me through this romp. We
watched the show together, and I was like,let's record a discussion episode. So
thank you, of course, yeah. Thank you.

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