June 18, 2024 • 30 mins
Most businesses have heard of managed It services but may not be familiar with Co-Managed Services. What are the differences and what advantages do one have over the other. Steve Arndt and Greg Shenefelt of Silver Linings Technology join us to explain the differences and what advantages each type of service offers and how Co-Managed IT may be a solution many businesses are looking for.
Contact Info
Phone: 360-450-4759
Steve Arndt, sarndt@silverliningstechnology.com
Greg Shenefelt, gshenefelt@silverliningstechnology.com
Visit the Small Business Talks Website for more information. We would enjoy hearing from you and invite you to send your comments and suggestions to nealr@mfgpa.org.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What are co-managed IT services?
Most of us are familiarwith managed IT services.
So what is the differenceand when is one better than the other?
We asked Steve Arndt and Greg Scheneffeltof Silver Lining's technology to explain
the differences and answer some questionstoday on Small Business Talks.
(00:27):
Today, we're going to be talkingabout what is co-managed IT?
How is it different fromtraditional outsourced IT services?
To help us understand this better,we have Steve Arndt and Greg Scheneffelt.
Steve is the President of Silver Lining'sTechnology, and Greg Scheneffelt
is the customer service representative.
(00:50):
Let's start off with the big question.
Can you define, can you give usan example of what is the difference
between Co-Managed IT and say managed IT.
Give us a definition or explain whatthe differences are there.
Yeah.
Typically, managed IT or outsourced IT,the entire IT department or
(01:14):
the operational part of the IT departmentis fully transferred or contracted with
another company like Silver Liningor somebody else.
So they become IT for the organization.
Co-managed is really a hybrid where youhave You have internal IT staff,
typically leadership,but it could be any operational
(01:37):
components that are internal,and you are also making use of external
resources, not on a one-off project basis,but on a contracted
routine basis for specific functions.
Does that make any sense?
Actually, it does.
I'm going to follow up with that and saythat, let's say I'm somebody with an IT
(02:01):
background already, why would I considerpartnering with a co-managed IT provider?
That's a great question.
It's especially good because a lot of ITleaders, especially in small or mid-size
organizations where they've been aroundfor a long time, feel threatened by this
(02:22):
because they think that the co-managedprovider is going to take over their job.
It's really not the case at all.
In the smaller or mid-sizeshops, a lot of times you don't
have the breadth of IT knowledge.
What I mean by that isIT touches everything.
Typically, it takesat least four different skill sets
(02:43):
within an IT organization toreally adequately cover all of the bases,
let alone all of the technology.
Whether it's server, administration,network administration, strategy,
project management,just day-to-day help desk,
the smaller mid-size shopstend to get overwhelmed with that
and focus on reallydaily operational challenges rather than
(03:12):
potentially serious strategic issuesthat need to be addressed by them as well.
So again, if you're bleeding,you want to get the bandaid,
but you don't realize that you're inthe lane to get hit by a car, right?
So that's great.You solved the bleeding problem.
What's about specialization, too?
It covers you in a lot of different areas.
(03:32):
Maybe your managed provider has tonsof strengths, but one system isn't
their specialty, and it isthe co-managed partner specialty.
It keeps you up and running and smooth.
Let me ask you this, How many people thinkthey're adequately covered right now?
People you deal with when youtalk to them, how many people say,
Well, we don't need it.We're pretty much adequately set.
(03:54):
I'll say that as, what percentageof people say that?
Two, what is it that makes themCan change their mind?
Almost every shopsaid that they're covered.
Let's say 85% to 90% think that.
Certainly, there are somepercentages that are.
(04:15):
I'll tell you whatchanges they're thinking.
Unfortunately, right now,it's around security and compliance.
Some event comes up and eitherdemonstrates to them that they
are not as secure as they thought,or Again, there's some compliance
and there's this knowledge gap of whatthey thought they were supposed to cover.
(04:36):
In a lot of cases, this is,unfortunately, a gap between
the IT and the other leadershipor operations component in the business.
A CEO, CFO, they don't know IT,and so they just assume IT is taking care
of all these things, including security,compliance, and all that thing.
(04:57):
We've run into many cases where the ITleader is really more a tactical
operations person,whether networking or server admin,
but they're really downward focusedon keeping the lights on and not as
focused on things like security orcompliance changes or things like that.
(05:19):
Then, of course, there's some eventor aha moment where the two come together
and realize that the gap is bigger thanwhat's expected, which is unfortunate.
Right.
Because many times everybody lose a sightof what's changing all the time
in these environments that are dynamicwith security, compliance components.
That's a good point.
(05:39):
I think one of the things I want to askis, could you make some recommendations
or help a company as they're listeningto this as they're saying,
I wonder if we're okay?
How would a company gage their performancethat they're currently getting to just
make a checklist?
I may make a checklist is the wrong word.
But what are some of the thingsthey should maybe do?
(05:59):
Meeting with Steve.Yeah.
Here, I think this is a great exercisefor the IT leader as well as
the business leaders in the organization,is identify what you would call
your critical operational systems.
Is it your ERP or your CRMor your MRP or, quite frankly,
(06:25):
your time and attendance system?
Identify those.
Typically, Basically, you're goingto get to five on your list.
In many cases, this will sound crazybecause in the old days,
this was never the case.
But quite frankly, now, email, whetherit's Office 365 or Google Workspace,
has become a critical application.
(06:49):
Identify those, that short list, and thenas the business leader, you need to ask
yourself, how long can that applicationbe down before you lose money?
And what is your expectation forit to be back online if it does go down?
And then the IT leader does the samething, and you compare those two things.
(07:09):
And in most cases, we recognizethat there's a gap right there,
that the expectation of ITin terms of backup and recovery
is a much longer threshold in realitythan what operations believe it is.
So right there, you've already identifieda gap, which kills apart a whole bunch
(07:31):
of things besides co-manage and all that.
So it's just a whole different layer.
But that then will give youa recognition that IT may not
be functioning at the levelthat the organization expects it to.
Then what do you need to doto change that and identify
if there's other gaps besides that, i.E.
(07:53):
Security, compliance, blah, blah, blah.
That's a good place to start.
From that, it's We're probablygoing to uncover other things as we
go through and have that discussion.Correct.
I want to emphasize that exercise doesnot necessarily mean you have bad IT.
We really want to bring that point homebecause IT has changed
(08:16):
and its touch on everything has grown somuch more that sometimes IT leaders doing
what they're doing or keeping upjust have not recognized that that gap has
grown so much more in the on thesystems has grown so much more.
Conversely, like I said, manyoutside of IT just have this perspective
that it's being handled.
(08:37):
Somebody's got to takecare of da da da da da da.
It's really more of a you don'tknow what you don't know thing.
I agree.
Like I said, Like you said,it's not saying you have a bad system,
but it's not a bad conversationto have so that A, if it is fine,
then you've at least addressed it andyou know there's not something on there.
But B, it may not be that it's completelyterrible, but you can see what's missing,
(08:59):
or it may be the an opportunity for IT tomake them aware of just what they cover.
There's another simple exercise.
We're talking about health care.
Quite frankly, most healthcare is 24 by 7 by 365.
Does your IT staff work 24 by 7 by 365?
If they don't, there's a support gap.
So that's a really simple place where aco-managed IT can help out and say, Look,
(09:26):
we know you need to go on vacation.
We know that you needto have weekends off.
Let's have our outsource help desk coverthose times so you're not burned out.
Also relieving pressureon your organization, right?
The worry about, Oh, what ifsaid person is on vacation?
You have that back up, awesome,skilled team that can cover that
for you in a heartbeat.
(09:46):
And of course, it's always betterto do this proactively than to wait to...
You don't have an IT person anymore.
Yeah.
I've worked in the manufacturing world forover 30 years, and I laughed because I've
had people that The guy quits and they'relike, Okay, we need to hire an IT person.
It's like, You really shouldn't have...
You should have had this talk before now.Right.
(10:09):
Yeah.
I mean, even then, it's discoveryof password or we got to
reset system to get active.
I mean, it gets very messy.
I certainly tell my team, in any role thatyou're at, the best thing you need to do
is find somebody that can replace you.
The instantaneous reactionis that's threatening,
but it's really the opposite.
As I've grown throughout my career,I realized that if I can replace myself,
(10:34):
I actually make myself more valuableand end up focusing on higher value
contributions to the organization.
I think that's really trueof internal IT when they bring
in co-managed, that they find that theynow can actually be in conversations
and have the time to do things and workon things that are really low value in
(10:54):
terms of the impact to the organization.
I want to address because you brought thisup in your At a previous point,
given the sensitive natureof the healthcare data and the increasing
threat of cybercrime,how does co-managed IT specifically
address theseunique security and compliance needs
(11:15):
of, let's say, skilled nursingor senior living facilities.
That's a a complex question.Let me start with this.
Is every co-managed contract is different?
We can't just sit here and say, Well,you know, co-manage is cookie cutter.
But one of the huge advantages of engaginga co-managed provider is to look at the
gaps that you as an organization have.
(11:37):
If you're focused on day-to-dayoperations or server management,
maybe you're not focused on security.
Having a co-managed providerthat has the security tools and
the security procedures and trainingsfor their staff is a real augment.
And what you'll end up learning is, gee,they can add value with,
(11:59):
again, their software tools to helpmonitor or manage the network and react
much quicker,either in the identification of a threat
or the remediationof a threat that occurs.
And the last thing you want isto be scrambling to figure out how
to prevent or remediate somethingwhen it's going on.
(12:21):
Again, this proactiveengagement is really huge.
I believe right now, and thereThere's lots of hype, but the reality
is there, too, especially with the adventof AI, propagation of tools.
We say that's great for regular business.But guess what?
The bad guys are usingall those same things.
(12:43):
The security profileand remediating that is just as critical,
even more so now than it's ever been.
And having a partnerthat has that expertise
that can augment your stuff and keepyour day-to-day stuff going on is huge.
And it takes pressure off of you to alwayshave to be proactive on your own.
(13:04):
Fresh eyes spot more things than youdo when you've done it for 5, 10 years
and have that tunnel scope, justkeeping everything running every day.
Even vendor paralysis.
There's 50 securitysoftware vendors out there.
So if you're going to start from scratchand again, have little knowledge
to go into it, you'll probablydo a reasonable assessment.
(13:26):
But why not just leverage somebodythat's in that all the time and knows
these vendors already and can say,Oh, gee, this is a much better fit
for you because of A, B, C, and D?
You brought up something,and I want to address this as a question.
Upper-level management looks at ITas they just have it as a blanket term.
(13:47):
I won't say, are all co-managedIT services providers the same?
I'll change it and say,what is the difference
and what should people be lookingfor in a co-managed managed IT provider?
Yeah, not all of them are the same,and how you use them is very different.
(14:08):
Maybe you want somebody that's focusedon security, or maybe you want somebody
that's focused on, again,help desk augmentation.
Obviously, very different functions.
Some organizations may have multipledifferent things as well, a team.
So a lot of fully outsourcedmanaged service providers will
do co-managed and can offer that variety.
(14:31):
I'll tell you here, though,is what's going to distinguish
any one of these from the others.
And that's the onesthat are bringing things to you
as the customer and telling you sometimesthe things you don't want to hear.
And I don't mean just financially to runup the bill, but I'm saying you've got a
(14:51):
gap here, you've got something here, andthey're really consultative rather than
dependent on you to ask them to do this.
They've got to be that consultative thing.
If you're not getting that,you're probably not getting
a true value out of your co-managed.
Does that distinction make sense?
I think that does.
(15:12):
Greg, did you havea thought on that as well?
I think it also gives you that abilityto, from an outside perspective, analyze.
Like Steve said, just show you like, Hey,you've got some shortcomings here, and we
specialize in this and can help youavoid downtime or the stop gap
from hurting you in the momentwhen something does go wrong.
(15:32):
In the big scheme of things,nothing is perfect.
Every operations wouldlove to think, Oh, IT is perfect.
Everything's perfect.No outsource provider is perfect.
And that's okay Because quitefrankly, most people can't
afford to pay for perfect anyway.
So really, what'sthe better discussion is reality.
And what do you get?
(15:55):
What do you want?
And how is that effectivelybeing delivered or not?
So again, that's with a help desk.
Are we get an instantaneousanswer on the call.
Well, maybe that costs this much, but I'mokay with a call back within 10 minutes.
Okay, well.
So that and going back tothat critical business application,
(16:17):
that's all about everybodyunderstanding the rules, really.
If everybody's on the same page,there's a lot of success with and
happiness within the functioning of IT.
As time goes on, companieschange, and with it are going
to be different challenges,new technologies, and things like that.
How can co-managed IT help in those areas?
(16:40):
Is it just managing what it is,or can they also see the growth,
or can they help work withyour changes as a business?
I think the best answer to thisis that if you're engaging
a co-managed provider, typically,they are working with lots of firms.
They have a much wider exposure to anindustry and what's going on, and whether
(17:04):
it's vendors or changes in the industry.
Again, this is where I would say you'relooking for that co-managed provider
that's going to bring that informationback to you because internally,
you may not recognize it or may nothave hit your organization yet.
Ai is a good example.
Oh, it's coming.It's coming.
Well, gee, did you know your competitorsare doing this or these other vendors
(17:27):
are implementing it?
It doesn't cost anything and peopleare taking advantage and you're not.
Oh, that's much more actionablethan it'll hit us someday.
Well, the same old vendors.
So again, that's exactly where anotheradvantage of a really good co-managed
provider in having a much broader senseof what's taking place in the market.
(17:52):
So a good co-managed providerwould actually help you drive growth
in that scenario then?
Yeah, if you let them.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, that brings up a good point.
Can you provide some examplesof how co-managed IT has helped
healthcare organizations?
Yeah, I think securityis the brightest example
(18:14):
and probably most pertinent right away.
There's a big push now, a lotof it driven from two factors.
Number one, health care recordshave become a very valuable commodity
especially in the dark weband the nefarious things.
People getting a hold of that.
(18:35):
And that has not just the monetaryvalue, but then a reputational harm.
So co-managed provider In our case,we've been brought into companies
to begin to create a much bettersecurity profile and to do testing.
Penetration testing is something typicallynot in an arsenal of a domestic IT and
(18:59):
Somebody like us as an outside providertypically can get much better pricing
and can interpret the resultbecause we're dealing with it more often.
There's lots of securityfirms out there as well.
But from an ongoing, what's changed isthat there's a recognition that instead
of this being a one-time eventthat you're checking off the list
(19:22):
as it was a few years ago,this needs to be an ongoing action.
That's really the difference betweenthe consulting versus the co-managed
in that you're now putting into placea program that really is looking at that.
We've really seen some, number one, a pushtowards that because insurance providers
are now giving you this cybersecuritychecklist and the Our clients
(19:46):
or people in the industry are lookingat this going, Oh, crap, what is this?
Or, I'm not doing this.I need to do this.
So again, this recognitionthat there's a gap that hasn't been met.
And also for us, us then for our clients,we're able to help them check off
the list and explain the thingsand give them assurances going forward
(20:07):
that we're actually in much better shape.
So that's a competitive value statementbecause, quite frankly, then they're
getting the better insurance quotesand renewals and things like that.
And the simplest thing.
Now, it's not all aboutinsurance, quite frankly.
In my mind, it's also positioning themin a much better thing against the risk
(20:29):
or the that are out there.
So you don't know, right?
It's so funny because we've had clientsthat say, We never use you
or we never hear from you.
There's never any issues, eventhough we're doing things all the time.
I said, That's fantastic.
You know it's working then, right?
And it's like, Well, it feelslike we're paying for nothing.
(20:50):
No, you're paying and you don'twant anything, right?
Do you really want us to have tostruggle with security issues
and be in your face in that regards?
That's that proactive nature.
It's an interesting paradigm shiftabout prevention that people
have to get their mind around.
This would fall into alsothe area of disaster recovery,
(21:12):
like a plan or implementation?
Yeah, it is.
That's a whole...
We got to spend another podcaston that because really, that's
a whole topic around cloud technologiesas well, back and then how
that whole thing has changed.
But yeah, co-managed can helpalong that path for sure because it's
(21:32):
a different set of expertise.
But yeah, there's tons of things.
And again, different examplesof how fast technology is changing,
and quite frankly, what's becoming IT?
Because I'll tell you what, about fiveyears ago, surveillance systems
weren't part of IT, and now they are.
So IT directors out there, if you don'tknow that, then guess what?
You own those systems, eventhough you don't know you own them.
(21:55):
That brings up a good question,because given the importance of staff
training and awareness in preventingsecurity breaches and things like that,
how does co-managed IT supportprovide ongoing education training
initiatives within the healthcare, skillednursing, or senior living facilities?
Well, again, Again, it goes backto that particular co-managed contract.
(22:18):
What's the scope of it?Where does it go?
But again, from somebody that thenmakes the leap to say, Oh, gee,
we can take advantage of co-managed,then you are definitely going to want
to take full Well, advantage, right?
Okay, wow, you're helping usto manage this technology.
Can you train us on it?
Can you keep the programsin place, the policies in place
(22:38):
to continually advance on that?
So again, this is that at its core,just supplemental expertise
that's available at an ongoing basis.
And from the business leader outside,if you do have IT transitions, this also
smooths those out as well, right?
So that's my delicate wayof saying, Gee, if your IT leadership
(23:00):
changes, there's continuity.
Yeah, that's true.
From the healthcare side,I think it's also that ability to...
We specialize in something,so you don't have to struggle to get
a hold of maybe your on-site IT.
You can get right to usand we can resolve and keep you compliant
(23:21):
and trained much fasterbecause it's our area of expertise.
I'm glad you brought that upbecause that was going to be
the next thing I was going to ask.
But we We've talkedall about these different areas.
Tell us a little bit more about SilverLining's technology, the focus, how you
got into this and where the expertise isand the different types in the healthcare
and senior living and skilled nursing.
(23:44):
Tell us a little bit more about thecompany and your focus on those areas.
Where did that come about?
Well, I've been a CIO in the post-acutehealthcare industry, gosh, since 2000.
So Working within an organization,large organization was 450 to 500
(24:05):
locations around the US,and then being brought in as a contract
CIO for a similarly sized organization,jumping into then consulting CIOs since
for another 10 yearsat 50 plus organizations.
So from a leadership perspective,I've been involved with the IT,
(24:25):
and I would say early on the focus, well,you have to keep track all of the stuff.
But for a long time,operational excellence tended to be
the focus because the threat landscapewas not quite as dramatic as it is now.
But that IT leadership perspectiveand what's happening and what you
(24:46):
need to report on internally,you really have to have started
in that position to recognizethe bigger trends on the business.
For us, that experience to me has ableto help us drive our focus internally
to do those co-manage engagements.
Security being a huge area right now,compliance, and the two are not the same.
(25:12):
A lot of people want securityand compliance together.
Compliance is wearing your safety belt,but because the law says to wear it.
Security is, Oh, you got into an accidentand you had that safety belt
on and it protected you.
Two really different focuses and mindsetsaround why you do those things
(25:35):
and who you're doing them for.
So for us, having that high-levelunderstanding and then being able to
drive that through the organization hasbeen a focus since the consulting steps
that have been driven intomy organization to help our clients.
So much so that we're starting to actuallysee more specialized engagements
(25:57):
and co-managed along that In the old days,for instance, it was really harder to get
engagements aside from full servicewhere people are totally outsourcing to us
or occasional project work.
And now the opposite is occurring as we'reseeing a lot of discussion,
a lot of talk from people that arerecognizing that maybe they're good
(26:20):
at some poor things,but they don't have these other skill
sets, and it'ssafe to augment them with us.
Did I answer your question?Yes, you did.
Okay.
In fact, I was going to say this,everything we've talked about so
far, I've been fascinated by.
I mean, it's really you've been veryin-depth, and I think people
listening are going to geta very good understanding of that.
(26:42):
So that brings me to the next thingis, first of all, I'm going
to leave the last minute with youto tell us, is there anything we didn't
cover or something you would alsolike to share with the audience?
I would just reemphasize againthat every co-managed contract
is different and it's not a threat.
So many organizations or people will thinkthat an outside partner is trying to take
(27:06):
over, and that's not really the case.
A good co-managed partneris really just there for that
to continue to help and augment.
So I think IT leadershipneeds to have a shift in mindset.
And I think company leadershipshould be sensitive to the IT leader
if they present it in thereand say, this is a management.
(27:28):
And there have been A couple of stents,honestly, where our role as co-manage is
to smooth things out, but also to mentor.
My CIO experience has been broughtin to be a guide and a resource
on a routine basis for IT leadership,which makes perfect sense economically.
(27:49):
Instead of an organizationbringing in a high six-figure income
person on a permanent basis,they get this little snippet
and can grow their existing staff.
I mean, what a wonderful win for both.
The organization getting much moreintelligence and the staff person
growing and becoming more valuable.
(28:10):
So definitely look at this asan opportunity for the organization to
maximize value and resource utilization.Well said.
I think a good co-managed partneris also somebody that can just
help keep you proactive.
Your co-managed partner should alwaysbe asking, Hey, is there anything else
I can help you as I'm fixingit, or, Hey, this thing popped up.
(28:32):
Let me make sure we're goodin the related areas here.
But keeping everybody aware, it's betterto be proactive than reactive every time.
Absolutely.
How is the best wayof getting in touch with you?
If somebody's listeningand they said, This makes sense,
I'd like to talk to these guys.
What's the best way?
Tell us a little bit of howwe can get in contact with you.
(28:53):
You can reach out to us on the phone,360-450-450-4759, or or email me
directly, sarndt, S-A-R-N-D-T,at silverliningstechnology.
Com.
And Neil, hopefully you can put thatin some of the postings of this.
(29:13):
Greg is gschenenfelt,S-H-E-N-E-F-E-L-T@silverliningstechnology.
Com.
We'd love to hear from you, andit certainly doesn't cost you anything
to get some answers to questions.
That's always a good thingto hear, and I think I would definitely
get some people to start addressing usand at least acknowledging it
(29:34):
and at least taking a look at it.
By the way, we'll also put the emailsand the phone number and the web address
in the show notes down below.
If you're on Spotify or anything,you can just look down there
and have that as well on there.
Fantastic.
Gentlemen, it has beena sincere pleasure to have you on again.
Appreciate all your wealthof knowledge and helping us
(29:55):
guide us through this a little bit.
Thanks so much for having us, Neil.
Thanks having us here again, Neil.
No problem.
Thank you for listening.
We hope this podcast was entertainingand informative and ask you to give us
a thumbs up and subscribe to our channel.
If you have any questions,please contact us to the address
in the show notes below.
What are co-managed IT services?
Most of us are familiarwith managed IT services.
So what is the differenceand when is one better than the other?
We asked Steve Arndt and Greg Scheneffeltof Silver Lining's technology to explain
the differences and answer some questionstoday on Small Business Talks.
(00:27):
Today, we're going to be talkingabout what is co-managed IT?
How is it different fromtraditional outsourced IT services?
To help us understand this better,we have Steve Arndt and Greg Scheneffelt.
Steve is the President of Silver Lining'sTechnology, and Greg Scheneffelt
is the customer service representative.
(00:50):
Let's start off with the big question.
Can you define, can you give usan example of what is the difference
between Co-Managed IT and say managed IT.
Give us a definition or explain whatthe differences are there.
Yeah.
Typically, managed IT or outsourced IT,the entire IT department or
(01:14):
the operational part of the IT departmentis fully transferred or contracted with
another company like Silver Liningor somebody else.
So they become IT for the organization.
Co-managed is really a hybrid where youhave You have internal IT staff,
typically leadership,but it could be any operational
(01:37):
components that are internal,and you are also making use of external
resources, not on a one-off project basis,but on a contracted
routine basis for specific functions.
Does that make any sense?
Actually, it does.
I'm going to follow up with that and saythat, let's say I'm somebody with an IT
(02:01):
background already, why would I considerpartnering with a co-managed IT provider?
That's a great question.
It's especially good because a lot of ITleaders, especially in small or mid-size
organizations where they've been aroundfor a long time, feel threatened by this
(02:22):
because they think that the co-managedprovider is going to take over their job.
It's really not the case at all.
In the smaller or mid-sizeshops, a lot of times you don't
have the breadth of IT knowledge.
What I mean by that isIT touches everything.
Typically, it takesat least four different skill sets
(02:43):
within an IT organization toreally adequately cover all of the bases,
let alone all of the technology.
Whether it's server, administration,network administration, strategy,
project management,just day-to-day help desk,
the smaller mid-size shopstend to get overwhelmed with that
and focus on reallydaily operational challenges rather than
(03:12):
potentially serious strategic issuesthat need to be addressed by them as well.
So again, if you're bleeding,you want to get the bandaid,
but you don't realize that you're inthe lane to get hit by a car, right?
So that's great.You solved the bleeding problem.
What's about specialization, too?
It covers you in a lot of different areas.
(03:32):
Maybe your managed provider has tonsof strengths, but one system isn't
their specialty, and it isthe co-managed partner specialty.
It keeps you up and running and smooth.
Let me ask you this, How many people thinkthey're adequately covered right now?
People you deal with when youtalk to them, how many people say,
Well, we don't need it.We're pretty much adequately set.
(03:54):
I'll say that as, what percentageof people say that?
Two, what is it that makes themCan change their mind?
Almost every shopsaid that they're covered.
Let's say 85% to 90% think that.
Certainly, there are somepercentages that are.
(04:15):
I'll tell you whatchanges they're thinking.
Unfortunately, right now,it's around security and compliance.
Some event comes up and eitherdemonstrates to them that they
are not as secure as they thought,or Again, there's some compliance
and there's this knowledge gap of whatthey thought they were supposed to cover.
(04:36):
In a lot of cases, this is,unfortunately, a gap between
the IT and the other leadershipor operations component in the business.
A CEO, CFO, they don't know IT,and so they just assume IT is taking care
of all these things, including security,compliance, and all that thing.
(04:57):
We've run into many cases where the ITleader is really more a tactical
operations person,whether networking or server admin,
but they're really downward focusedon keeping the lights on and not as
focused on things like security orcompliance changes or things like that.
(05:19):
Then, of course, there's some eventor aha moment where the two come together
and realize that the gap is bigger thanwhat's expected, which is unfortunate.
Right.
Because many times everybody lose a sightof what's changing all the time
in these environments that are dynamicwith security, compliance components.
That's a good point.
(05:39):
I think one of the things I want to askis, could you make some recommendations
or help a company as they're listeningto this as they're saying,
I wonder if we're okay?
How would a company gage their performancethat they're currently getting to just
make a checklist?
I may make a checklist is the wrong word.
But what are some of the thingsthey should maybe do?
(05:59):
Meeting with Steve.Yeah.
Here, I think this is a great exercisefor the IT leader as well as
the business leaders in the organization,is identify what you would call
your critical operational systems.
Is it your ERP or your CRMor your MRP or, quite frankly,
(06:25):
your time and attendance system?
Identify those.
Typically, Basically, you're goingto get to five on your list.
In many cases, this will sound crazybecause in the old days,
this was never the case.
But quite frankly, now, email, whetherit's Office 365 or Google Workspace,
has become a critical application.
(06:49):
Identify those, that short list, and thenas the business leader, you need to ask
yourself, how long can that applicationbe down before you lose money?
And what is your expectation forit to be back online if it does go down?
And then the IT leader does the samething, and you compare those two things.
(07:09):
And in most cases, we recognizethat there's a gap right there,
that the expectation of ITin terms of backup and recovery
is a much longer threshold in realitythan what operations believe it is.
So right there, you've already identifieda gap, which kills apart a whole bunch
(07:31):
of things besides co-manage and all that.
So it's just a whole different layer.
But that then will give youa recognition that IT may not
be functioning at the levelthat the organization expects it to.
Then what do you need to doto change that and identify
if there's other gaps besides that, i.E.
(07:53):
Security, compliance, blah, blah, blah.
That's a good place to start.
From that, it's We're probablygoing to uncover other things as we
go through and have that discussion.Correct.
I want to emphasize that exercise doesnot necessarily mean you have bad IT.
We really want to bring that point homebecause IT has changed
(08:16):
and its touch on everything has grown somuch more that sometimes IT leaders doing
what they're doing or keeping upjust have not recognized that that gap has
grown so much more in the on thesystems has grown so much more.
Conversely, like I said, manyoutside of IT just have this perspective
that it's being handled.
(08:37):
Somebody's got to takecare of da da da da da da.
It's really more of a you don'tknow what you don't know thing.
I agree.
Like I said, Like you said,it's not saying you have a bad system,
but it's not a bad conversationto have so that A, if it is fine,
then you've at least addressed it andyou know there's not something on there.
But B, it may not be that it's completelyterrible, but you can see what's missing,
(08:59):
or it may be the an opportunity for IT tomake them aware of just what they cover.
There's another simple exercise.
We're talking about health care.
Quite frankly, most healthcare is 24 by 7 by 365.
Does your IT staff work 24 by 7 by 365?
If they don't, there's a support gap.
So that's a really simple place where aco-managed IT can help out and say, Look,
(09:26):
we know you need to go on vacation.
We know that you needto have weekends off.
Let's have our outsource help desk coverthose times so you're not burned out.
Also relieving pressureon your organization, right?
The worry about, Oh, what ifsaid person is on vacation?
You have that back up, awesome,skilled team that can cover that
for you in a heartbeat.
(09:46):
And of course, it's always betterto do this proactively than to wait to...
You don't have an IT person anymore.
Yeah.
I've worked in the manufacturing world forover 30 years, and I laughed because I've
had people that The guy quits and they'relike, Okay, we need to hire an IT person.
It's like, You really shouldn't have...
You should have had this talk before now.Right.
(10:09):
Yeah.
I mean, even then, it's discoveryof password or we got to
reset system to get active.
I mean, it gets very messy.
I certainly tell my team, in any role thatyou're at, the best thing you need to do
is find somebody that can replace you.
The instantaneous reactionis that's threatening,
but it's really the opposite.
As I've grown throughout my career,I realized that if I can replace myself,
(10:34):
I actually make myself more valuableand end up focusing on higher value
contributions to the organization.
I think that's really trueof internal IT when they bring
in co-managed, that they find that theynow can actually be in conversations
and have the time to do things and workon things that are really low value in
(10:54):
terms of the impact to the organization.
I want to address because you brought thisup in your At a previous point,
given the sensitive natureof the healthcare data and the increasing
threat of cybercrime,how does co-managed IT specifically
address theseunique security and compliance needs
(11:15):
of, let's say, skilled nursingor senior living facilities.
That's a a complex question.Let me start with this.
Is every co-managed contract is different?
We can't just sit here and say, Well,you know, co-manage is cookie cutter.
But one of the huge advantages of engaginga co-managed provider is to look at the
gaps that you as an organization have.
(11:37):
If you're focused on day-to-dayoperations or server management,
maybe you're not focused on security.
Having a co-managed providerthat has the security tools and
the security procedures and trainingsfor their staff is a real augment.
And what you'll end up learning is, gee,they can add value with,
(11:59):
again, their software tools to helpmonitor or manage the network and react
much quicker,either in the identification of a threat
or the remediationof a threat that occurs.
And the last thing you want isto be scrambling to figure out how
to prevent or remediate somethingwhen it's going on.
(12:21):
Again, this proactiveengagement is really huge.
I believe right now, and thereThere's lots of hype, but the reality
is there, too, especially with the adventof AI, propagation of tools.
We say that's great for regular business.But guess what?
The bad guys are usingall those same things.
(12:43):
The security profileand remediating that is just as critical,
even more so now than it's ever been.
And having a partnerthat has that expertise
that can augment your stuff and keepyour day-to-day stuff going on is huge.
And it takes pressure off of you to alwayshave to be proactive on your own.
(13:04):
Fresh eyes spot more things than youdo when you've done it for 5, 10 years
and have that tunnel scope, justkeeping everything running every day.
Even vendor paralysis.
There's 50 securitysoftware vendors out there.
So if you're going to start from scratchand again, have little knowledge
to go into it, you'll probablydo a reasonable assessment.
(13:26):
But why not just leverage somebodythat's in that all the time and knows
these vendors already and can say,Oh, gee, this is a much better fit
for you because of A, B, C, and D?
You brought up something,and I want to address this as a question.
Upper-level management looks at ITas they just have it as a blanket term.
(13:47):
I won't say, are all co-managedIT services providers the same?
I'll change it and say,what is the difference
and what should people be lookingfor in a co-managed managed IT provider?
Yeah, not all of them are the same,and how you use them is very different.
(14:08):
Maybe you want somebody that's focusedon security, or maybe you want somebody
that's focused on, again,help desk augmentation.
Obviously, very different functions.
Some organizations may have multipledifferent things as well, a team.
So a lot of fully outsourcedmanaged service providers will
do co-managed and can offer that variety.
(14:31):
I'll tell you here, though,is what's going to distinguish
any one of these from the others.
And that's the onesthat are bringing things to you
as the customer and telling you sometimesthe things you don't want to hear.
And I don't mean just financially to runup the bill, but I'm saying you've got a
(14:51):
gap here, you've got something here, andthey're really consultative rather than
dependent on you to ask them to do this.
They've got to be that consultative thing.
If you're not getting that,you're probably not getting
a true value out of your co-managed.
Does that distinction make sense?
I think that does.
(15:12):
Greg, did you havea thought on that as well?
I think it also gives you that abilityto, from an outside perspective, analyze.
Like Steve said, just show you like, Hey,you've got some shortcomings here, and we
specialize in this and can help youavoid downtime or the stop gap
from hurting you in the momentwhen something does go wrong.
(15:32):
In the big scheme of things,nothing is perfect.
Every operations wouldlove to think, Oh, IT is perfect.
Everything's perfect.No outsource provider is perfect.
And that's okay Because quitefrankly, most people can't
afford to pay for perfect anyway.
So really, what'sthe better discussion is reality.
And what do you get?
(15:55):
What do you want?
And how is that effectivelybeing delivered or not?
So again, that's with a help desk.
Are we get an instantaneousanswer on the call.
Well, maybe that costs this much, but I'mokay with a call back within 10 minutes.
Okay, well.
So that and going back tothat critical business application,
(16:17):
that's all about everybodyunderstanding the rules, really.
If everybody's on the same page,there's a lot of success with and
happiness within the functioning of IT.
As time goes on, companieschange, and with it are going
to be different challenges,new technologies, and things like that.
How can co-managed IT help in those areas?
(16:40):
Is it just managing what it is,or can they also see the growth,
or can they help work withyour changes as a business?
I think the best answer to thisis that if you're engaging
a co-managed provider, typically,they are working with lots of firms.
They have a much wider exposure to anindustry and what's going on, and whether
(17:04):
it's vendors or changes in the industry.
Again, this is where I would say you'relooking for that co-managed provider
that's going to bring that informationback to you because internally,
you may not recognize it or may nothave hit your organization yet.
Ai is a good example.
Oh, it's coming.It's coming.
Well, gee, did you know your competitorsare doing this or these other vendors
(17:27):
are implementing it?
It doesn't cost anything and peopleare taking advantage and you're not.
Oh, that's much more actionablethan it'll hit us someday.
Well, the same old vendors.
So again, that's exactly where anotheradvantage of a really good co-managed
provider in having a much broader senseof what's taking place in the market.
(17:52):
So a good co-managed providerwould actually help you drive growth
in that scenario then?
Yeah, if you let them.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, that brings up a good point.
Can you provide some examplesof how co-managed IT has helped
healthcare organizations?
Yeah, I think securityis the brightest example
(18:14):
and probably most pertinent right away.
There's a big push now, a lotof it driven from two factors.
Number one, health care recordshave become a very valuable commodity
especially in the dark weband the nefarious things.
People getting a hold of that.
(18:35):
And that has not just the monetaryvalue, but then a reputational harm.
So co-managed provider In our case,we've been brought into companies
to begin to create a much bettersecurity profile and to do testing.
Penetration testing is something typicallynot in an arsenal of a domestic IT and
(18:59):
Somebody like us as an outside providertypically can get much better pricing
and can interpret the resultbecause we're dealing with it more often.
There's lots of securityfirms out there as well.
But from an ongoing, what's changed isthat there's a recognition that instead
of this being a one-time eventthat you're checking off the list
(19:22):
as it was a few years ago,this needs to be an ongoing action.
That's really the difference betweenthe consulting versus the co-managed
in that you're now putting into placea program that really is looking at that.
We've really seen some, number one, a pushtowards that because insurance providers
are now giving you this cybersecuritychecklist and the Our clients
(19:46):
or people in the industry are lookingat this going, Oh, crap, what is this?
Or, I'm not doing this.I need to do this.
So again, this recognitionthat there's a gap that hasn't been met.
And also for us, us then for our clients,we're able to help them check off
the list and explain the thingsand give them assurances going forward
(20:07):
that we're actually in much better shape.
So that's a competitive value statementbecause, quite frankly, then they're
getting the better insurance quotesand renewals and things like that.
And the simplest thing.
Now, it's not all aboutinsurance, quite frankly.
In my mind, it's also positioning themin a much better thing against the risk
(20:29):
or the that are out there.
So you don't know, right?
It's so funny because we've had clientsthat say, We never use you
or we never hear from you.
There's never any issues, eventhough we're doing things all the time.
I said, That's fantastic.
You know it's working then, right?
And it's like, Well, it feelslike we're paying for nothing.
(20:50):
No, you're paying and you don'twant anything, right?
Do you really want us to have tostruggle with security issues
and be in your face in that regards?
That's that proactive nature.
It's an interesting paradigm shiftabout prevention that people
have to get their mind around.
This would fall into alsothe area of disaster recovery,
(21:12):
like a plan or implementation?
Yeah, it is.
That's a whole...
We got to spend another podcaston that because really, that's
a whole topic around cloud technologiesas well, back and then how
that whole thing has changed.
But yeah, co-managed can helpalong that path for sure because it's
(21:32):
a different set of expertise.
But yeah, there's tons of things.
And again, different examplesof how fast technology is changing,
and quite frankly, what's becoming IT?
Because I'll tell you what, about fiveyears ago, surveillance systems
weren't part of IT, and now they are.
So IT directors out there, if you don'tknow that, then guess what?
You own those systems, eventhough you don't know you own them.
(21:55):
That brings up a good question,because given the importance of staff
training and awareness in preventingsecurity breaches and things like that,
how does co-managed IT supportprovide ongoing education training
initiatives within the healthcare, skillednursing, or senior living facilities?
Well, again, Again, it goes backto that particular co-managed contract.
(22:18):
What's the scope of it?Where does it go?
But again, from somebody that thenmakes the leap to say, Oh, gee,
we can take advantage of co-managed,then you are definitely going to want
to take full Well, advantage, right?
Okay, wow, you're helping usto manage this technology.
Can you train us on it?
Can you keep the programsin place, the policies in place
(22:38):
to continually advance on that?
So again, this is that at its core,just supplemental expertise
that's available at an ongoing basis.
And from the business leader outside,if you do have IT transitions, this also
smooths those out as well, right?
So that's my delicate wayof saying, Gee, if your IT leadership
(23:00):
changes, there's continuity.
Yeah, that's true.
From the healthcare side,I think it's also that ability to...
We specialize in something,so you don't have to struggle to get
a hold of maybe your on-site IT.
You can get right to usand we can resolve and keep you compliant
(23:21):
and trained much fasterbecause it's our area of expertise.
I'm glad you brought that upbecause that was going to be
the next thing I was going to ask.
But we We've talkedall about these different areas.
Tell us a little bit more about SilverLining's technology, the focus, how you
got into this and where the expertise isand the different types in the healthcare
and senior living and skilled nursing.
(23:44):
Tell us a little bit more about thecompany and your focus on those areas.
Where did that come about?
Well, I've been a CIO in the post-acutehealthcare industry, gosh, since 2000.
So Working within an organization,large organization was 450 to 500
(24:05):
locations around the US,and then being brought in as a contract
CIO for a similarly sized organization,jumping into then consulting CIOs since
for another 10 yearsat 50 plus organizations.
So from a leadership perspective,I've been involved with the IT,
(24:25):
and I would say early on the focus, well,you have to keep track all of the stuff.
But for a long time,operational excellence tended to be
the focus because the threat landscapewas not quite as dramatic as it is now.
But that IT leadership perspectiveand what's happening and what you
(24:46):
need to report on internally,you really have to have started
in that position to recognizethe bigger trends on the business.
For us, that experience to me has ableto help us drive our focus internally
to do those co-manage engagements.
Security being a huge area right now,compliance, and the two are not the same.
(25:12):
A lot of people want securityand compliance together.
Compliance is wearing your safety belt,but because the law says to wear it.
Security is, Oh, you got into an accidentand you had that safety belt
on and it protected you.
Two really different focuses and mindsetsaround why you do those things
(25:35):
and who you're doing them for.
So for us, having that high-levelunderstanding and then being able to
drive that through the organization hasbeen a focus since the consulting steps
that have been driven intomy organization to help our clients.
So much so that we're starting to actuallysee more specialized engagements
(25:57):
and co-managed along that In the old days,for instance, it was really harder to get
engagements aside from full servicewhere people are totally outsourcing to us
or occasional project work.
And now the opposite is occurring as we'reseeing a lot of discussion,
a lot of talk from people that arerecognizing that maybe they're good
(26:20):
at some poor things,but they don't have these other skill
sets, and it'ssafe to augment them with us.
Did I answer your question?Yes, you did.
Okay.
In fact, I was going to say this,everything we've talked about so
far, I've been fascinated by.
I mean, it's really you've been veryin-depth, and I think people
listening are going to geta very good understanding of that.
(26:42):
So that brings me to the next thingis, first of all, I'm going
to leave the last minute with youto tell us, is there anything we didn't
cover or something you would alsolike to share with the audience?
I would just reemphasize againthat every co-managed contract
is different and it's not a threat.
So many organizations or people will thinkthat an outside partner is trying to take
(27:06):
over, and that's not really the case.
A good co-managed partneris really just there for that
to continue to help and augment.
So I think IT leadershipneeds to have a shift in mindset.
And I think company leadershipshould be sensitive to the IT leader
if they present it in thereand say, this is a management.
(27:28):
And there have been A couple of stents,honestly, where our role as co-manage is
to smooth things out, but also to mentor.
My CIO experience has been broughtin to be a guide and a resource
on a routine basis for IT leadership,which makes perfect sense economically.
(27:49):
Instead of an organizationbringing in a high six-figure income
person on a permanent basis,they get this little snippet
and can grow their existing staff.
I mean, what a wonderful win for both.
The organization getting much moreintelligence and the staff person
growing and becoming more valuable.
(28:10):
So definitely look at this asan opportunity for the organization to
maximize value and resource utilization.Well said.
I think a good co-managed partneris also somebody that can just
help keep you proactive.
Your co-managed partner should alwaysbe asking, Hey, is there anything else
I can help you as I'm fixingit, or, Hey, this thing popped up.
(28:32):
Let me make sure we're goodin the related areas here.
But keeping everybody aware, it's betterto be proactive than reactive every time.
Absolutely.
How is the best wayof getting in touch with you?
If somebody's listeningand they said, This makes sense,
I'd like to talk to these guys.
What's the best way?
Tell us a little bit of howwe can get in contact with you.
(28:53):
You can reach out to us on the phone,360-450-450-4759, or or email me
directly, sarndt, S-A-R-N-D-T,at silverliningstechnology.
Com.
And Neil, hopefully you can put thatin some of the postings of this.
(29:13):
Greg is gschenenfelt,S-H-E-N-E-F-E-L-T@silverliningstechnology.
Com.
We'd love to hear from you, andit certainly doesn't cost you anything
to get some answers to questions.
That's always a good thingto hear, and I think I would definitely
get some people to start addressing usand at least acknowledging it
(29:34):
and at least taking a look at it.
By the way, we'll also put the emailsand the phone number and the web address
in the show notes down below.
If you're on Spotify or anything,you can just look down there
and have that as well on there.
Fantastic.
Gentlemen, it has beena sincere pleasure to have you on again.
Appreciate all your wealthof knowledge and helping us
(29:55):
guide us through this a little bit.
Thanks so much for having us, Neil.
Thanks having us here again, Neil.
No problem.
Thank you for listening.
We hope this podcast was entertainingand informative and ask you to give us
a thumbs up and subscribe to our channel.
If you have any questions,please contact us to the address
in the show notes below.
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