February 12, 2023 • 28 mins
In a previous episode, we learned about Dr. Allen Kramer and his extensive years of research at the National Institute of Health doing years of research on proteins and how he turned that experience into a small business manufacturing type 2 collagen supplements. Since then, we have had many listeners contact us about companies offering a 30-day collagen challenge for joint pain. We reached out to Sr. Kramer to get his view on the subject and wanted to follow up with another podcast to see if these claims were realistic and if not why. Our podcast goes into an understanding of how collagen works and what type of collagen works best and most importantly what is a realistic time frame to see results.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
A few months ago we had Dr.
Alan Kramer as a guest on our podcast
to discuss starting a small businessmanufacturing collagen supplements to help
people with joint pain and explain how hegot started, his background and how
collagen supplements actuallyhelp people with joint pain.
Since then, we've had many people contact
us to tell us that they have found somecompanies promoting a 30 day collagen
(00:23):
challenge onlinefor treating joint campaign.
After doing some online research,we found that several companies were
promoting this claim and feltit was best to have Dr.
Kramer on again for his expertisewith collagen supplements and his thoughts
on the subject today on a special followup edition of Small Business Talks.
(00:46):
There's a lot of hype,especially on the internet,
about collagen supplements and there'seven a lot of companies saying a 30 day
collagen challenge is iswhat they're recommending.
And we really want to discuss,
is 30 days really enough to be able tomake the changes to provide joint health?
Today with us we've got Dr.
(01:07):
Allen Cramer, president of Sue Biochemicaland owner of SB Edge Supplements to help
us sort through the hype and thereality of collagen supplements.
And that 30 days.
We should really be looking at 90 daychallenge, not a 30 day challenge.
So welcome to the podcast Dr.Kramer.
(01:29):
How are you doing today?
Hey, thank you.
Glad to be here today to be with you.
Let's, let's just start out with we'regoing to get into the specifics of it.
There's a lot of people out therepromoting, you know,
collagen supplements and all you needis 30 days to get involved in it.
And in our last discussion we talked about
(01:49):
the process and thingsthat were involved in it.
Is that an effective saying or is
that kind of like just is itmore hype to say 30 days?
Well, it's a hype, okay?
Generally speaking,a person, when they experience a collagen
loss, which could be osteoporosis or someother situations,
(02:10):
that means that the cartilage has beendamaged to such an extent that you're
hitting the nerves that areembedded in the cartilage.
And then when you start having motion,those nerves send a signal which is pain,
which is telling you that there'ssomething amiss, there's something not
(02:31):
working quite right in your cartilage,your bones.
Today we're going to talk mainly about
bone health or joint healthand there's something wrong.
Okay.
It's a signal thatthe cartilage isn't the way it should be.
What can cause some of these issueswith cartilage damage and all that?
(02:53):
Is it just age or what are someof the things that cause that?
Okay, there are three causes.
Number one is age.
As you get older, sometimes the mechanismfor rebuilding the cartilage is slower
than the mechanism that isdestroying naturally.
Your cartilage hasa turnover in your body.
(03:15):
That means some of the old cartilagemolecules are replaced with new ones.
Now, especially in the joints,
there is a turnoverand so you have some of the molecules
being, I'm going to say the word removedand the new ones are following it.
(03:35):
But now with activity,that's the normal side.
But with normal activity,
the stress on the jointcauses it to wear out quicker
and it's only renewed orreplaced at a certain speed.
And if the damage is greater thanthe ability to repair the damage,
(03:58):
you hit what they call yournerves and it becomes painful.
That's a signal that your cartilage.
You either have to slow down the use there
and have the cartilage get caught up oryou have to tell the cartilage to speed up
and keep growing becauseyou have more activity.
Why is 30 days not enough timefor this to do the job right?
(04:22):
Okay, the reason it can't go yet is
there are cells that have to be toldto start making additional cartilage.
So when you experience pain,there's a three steps.
Number one, you have to repair thecartilage that's underneath the joint.
Then you make a protective coating on top
(04:45):
of the joint wherethe joint meets the joint.
That is a cartilage cover.
And then there's a fluid in between those
two so that when the joints move flexible,they are lubricated and they are healthy.
Both sides, the two sides of the joint are
both healthy and there's a lubricationand then there's pain free.
(05:08):
Okay,
I'm going to delve a little bit moreinto that as well because obviously
there's different typesof collagen out there.
Is there a specific type of collagen
suited better than another onefor doing repair?
Why is 30 days not enough timefor this to do the job right?
Okay, the reason it can't go yet is
(05:31):
there are cells that have to be toldto start making additional cartilage.
So when you experience pain,there's a three steps.
Number one, you have to repair thecartilage that's underneath the joint.
Then you make a protective coating on top
of the joint wherethe joint meets the joint.
(05:53):
That is a cartilage cover.
And then there's a fluid in between those
two so that when the joints move flexible,they are lubricated and they are healthy.
Both sides, the two sides of the joint are
both healthy and there's a lubricationand then there's pain free.
(06:14):
Okay,
I'm going to delve a little bit moreinto that as well because obviously
there's different typesof collagen out there.
Is there a specific type of collagen
suited better than another onefor doing repair?
Yes.
Your body has to be toldthat repair is going to happen.
Everybody can have pain and most peoplejust mask the pain with pain relievers.
(06:40):
That does not improve the abilityto replace the damaged cartilage.
Collagen has to have,I'm going to use the word a tag
on the collagen molecule that says youshould go and repair your other collagen
now, if your collagen is water soluble,you have damaged that tag.
(07:05):
And that tag isn't there really,to trigger your body to make new collagen,
it has to be triggered by a mechanism thatis really only on the type two collagen.
And we can go into all that.
But there's a tag on the side that saysyou have to, and it tells you how to do
(07:28):
it, so it will instruct the bodyhow to produce new collagen.
There are big fancy words like osteoclast,and those are the cells that go and they
have to be triggered to startmaking new collagen.
They make it slowly, but this tag says you
have to speed up the productionof the collagen in that joint that's been
(07:50):
worn out by stress or by action,or is there a specific.
Type of supplement of collagen that people
should be looking for that would bemore effective than another one?
Okay.
Generally speaking,the mechanism for triggering the formation
(08:12):
of the cartilage is foundon the molecule itself,
but 90% of it is destroyed by the moleculeshould maintain its integrity.
When you make it water soluble,you chop it up into little tiny fragments,
little threads, and theylose their integrity.
(08:33):
And the water soluble molecules will nothave the ability to trigger the response
that the body is looking for to regrowthe collagen in the joints.
How would somebody know it is a water
based collagen product versusa non water based?
If it's soluble in water,
(08:55):
if you can just pour it in your glass,it's water soluble.
Our product is insoluble.Got it.
Do they ever mentionthat on the packaging?
Insoluble or soluble?
You never want to mention that.Okay.
Okay.Got it.
So looking at that, I noticed also, like,the SP edge is a type two collagen.
(09:18):
Maybe just give us a brief overview.
What are, what are the different types?
How many different types are there
and maybe a littlebackground on each one of them.
Okay, well, collagen is a molecule and ithas a certain molecular structure
and depends where the collagen came from,determines its structure.
(09:40):
Okay.
And so your collagen is found in skin.
That's a certain type.
And then there's collagen in jointsand then there's collagen in your bones.
Collagen gives strength to your bones,and that's important.
And for skin, collagen forms the structure
underneath the skin thatgives the skin support.
(10:02):
And when you lose that support,you get a wrinkle.
That means the collagen in your skin is
not being maintained enough and it'llbreak down and it's not replaced.
And that forms a wrinkle.
So that's the other kind.
It's skin, it's a wrinkle on bones.
It's weak, weak bones.
But in joints, it's painful.
(10:23):
So one of the recommendations that I think
we're we're we're making here is that itreally we should be looking at a 90 day,
if we want to call it a collagenchallenge, a 90 day versus a 30 day,
simply because of the process of your bodyneeding to be able to make all these
adjustments so that it'seffectively working.
Let me answer that in two sentences, okay?
(10:45):
Your damaged collagenlooks like sandpaper.
On sandpaper, a joint,
both sides are damaged, and where theycome into contact, they are rough.
And by that rough, you hit nerves.
And every time your jointmoves, there is pain.
And that's called a worn out jointbecause it's exposing the nerves.
(11:07):
Damaged joint looks like sandpaper.
On sandpaper, there are pits, okay?
And every time you move,it hurts because it's friction.
Right.So it takes 30 days for us to start
filling up the pits to make it a levelsurface for the next section
(11:28):
of the collagen, which is the skin on topof it so that this skin can be lubricated,
so that the two sides of the jointare smooth and lubricated.
The day you were born,you got to have a joint that's smooth,
(11:49):
lubricated, and then the nervesare covered so there's no pain.
You do a bovine type collagen, correct?Yes.
Okay,
that is any specific advantage of bovineover what other type of collagen is there?
(12:10):
One of the main ones is a lot of timesthere's some fish,
a lot of people fish bryproductsare turned into fish collagen.
If you look at most collagens,which are called type one and Three,
they come from cow hides from Brazil,and they just take a height of a cow
and they put it in a solution of acid,and they just make it soluble,
(12:32):
and they just literally destroy itwith acid, and it becomes soluble.
They dry that.
And 75% of the collagen you see
on in a store, it's called type oneand three, and it comes from the skin
of cows, and it has maybe a purpose,but it's probably only 10% of the activity
(12:53):
of a collagen that camefrom where we get ours.
Okay?Ours is not from the skin.
The type two collagen,
there are a couple of other ones,but the bovine is actually the best one.
It triggers your body.
There is a molecule that goes right
into your body, and it triggersthere's an osteoblast and an osteoclast.
(13:16):
Osteoclass is the cell that isthe builder of collagen.
It's your collagen builder.
It's a cell that goes to work,
and he just makes collagen all day longsomewhere, and he is only told to work
when he is getting the contactfrom a certain molecule,
and that will be the molecule that's foundon the side of the type two collagen.
(13:39):
Okay.
That's important because that's somethingyou need to look at,
because realizing that you need to havethe trigger first before you can really
have any kind of moving forward in reliefand in rebuilding the college in them.
You got it right.
Anything else that weshould know as a consumer?
What should we know?
And look for when we look at a collegeand supplement, what are some realistic
(14:03):
expectations and what are things asa consumer we should be looking at?
Collagen comes from a type oneand three, which is skin, right?
Collagen type two comesfrom another part of the animal.
And right now we're usingthis from atrachia.
And atrachia is strongand it's kind of tough.
Okay?
And it is a fibrous molecule,and it's flexible and strong.
(14:28):
And those are the two things,and it won't wear out right away.
And the second thing, it has the ability,
like a freakya, it can move backand forth, being very flexible.
And that's what you want to findwhen you have, like, a joint.
Most joints are flexible and you'd like
to see the ability that movementin the joint doesn't cause pain.
(14:49):
I should have asked this earlier,
and I think for our listeners is maybethis is not your opinion,
but maybe if you give a little bit of yourbackground to explain how come you know so
much about supplements,collagen supplements?
Okay, first of all,I have an academic background, basically.
I almost have, like,a PhD in protein chemistry.
(15:11):
I've spent years of researchat the National Institute of Health
and other places doing yearsof research on proteins.
They were other proteins.
But you have to know what a protein does.
And a protein has a unique every protein
has a unique fingerprint whenit is allowed in nature.
(15:32):
But if it's destroyed, it's like havinga protein is like a roadmap on your life.
It forms a special place.
That protein could be in a skin oryour eyes or your heart or your lungs.
They're all proteins,
and they all have a signal that tellsthem to repair the damage.
(15:58):
It's a living system.Living system.
And if it's not taken care of,you can have heart damage.
You can have damage to your intestines.
You can have damage to your bones.
You can have skin damage.
In a minute, we'll talk about if you want
to hit about the other thing isthe collagen loss on bones is the joint.
But the main thing we have iscollagen loss in your skin.
(16:21):
And this is off the point.
But when you are looking at your skin,and especially for men and women as they
get older, the collagen isthe scaffold that holds your skin up.
A breakdown in your collagen underthe skin will form a wrinkle.
(16:42):
That just means there's a ditch,and that is collagen underneath.
That wrinkle has been broken.
It'll take only really the dyke twocollagen is the one that will build up
that wrinkle underneath, and youcan actually see wrinkles go away.
We have all the science that show that if
(17:03):
you want to get rid of the wrinkles,that's not joints.
The collagen that we have definitely willremove most of the wrinkles on your face.
Our body is all collagenwe have collagen in your intestines.
And that can cause pain becauseyour intestines has to be coated
(17:25):
with a collagen surface so that the acidsand the bases and all the different foods
you send through there iscorrectly processed by your body.
But it shouldn't damage the intestinethat it's going through.
And you can be infected and you get
ulcerative colitis and you can get allthese different things, basically,
are caused by a breakdown of the collagen,allowing the molecules of food to get
(17:50):
into the bloodstream,which causes a violent reaction.
You really want to maintain the integrityof the intestine, but that's part of it.
But today we're just talking about joints.
But joints are so important,too, for flexibility.
So you have a damaged joint and itlooks like sandpaper on sandpaper.
That's what it looks like.
It'll take at least one month to fillup the sandpaper and make it smooth.
(18:18):
Those dimples,that rough structure has to be made
smooth, like a sheet of paperagain, like it started.
Those molecules have to work pretty hard
to fill in those gaps that werecaused by the damage.
It looks like sandpaper.
You have to make sandpaper into a nice
sheet of white paperand the collagen will do it.
(18:40):
But it takes time.
It has to start working and it has
to build that scaffolding backup to make it smooth on top.
That takes at least 30 dayswith the type collagen tube.
Then once you get the surface,they want that surface to be thicker.
You should have the collagen on your bone.
If you look at it,it's probably five or 6 CM thick.
(19:03):
So it's absorbent.
That is your shock absorber.
So you have to have a collagen sheathon both sides to absorb shock.
And so you got to make that collagenfirst, get it to the surface.
Then you have to form the collagen sheetunderneath so that the other side,
the collagen sheet, you'll have twonice pieces of paper looking like that.
(19:28):
And then between the third month,it has to start lubricating those again.
So you have two smooth surface
with a lubricant that willtake 90 days, minimum.
It could take as much as 120,but you will get there.
We've got all the science,all the clinical trials.
We've got people who show you that take
an X ray of it when they are damaged,they'll take an X ray.
(19:51):
30 days later, sure enough, there it is.
They take an X ray.
60 days later, they cansee it in an X ray.
90 days, they can just seethat it's almost normal.
So the clinical proof is unmistakable.
We know it works.
It's been proven overand over and over again.
After 90 days, you can regrow the collagenthrough the molecule that we're using.
(20:16):
That is very important because I think,
like I said, when you go onlineand you type it in, it's 30 days.
30 days, 30 days.
I know in our previous conversations,
I know there was a process and it's likewe need to help people understand that.
They need to be lookingat why 30 versus 90.
And I think what you just explained reallydetails out there's a reason for it.
(20:39):
It's not a marketing thing,
it's it's a scientific process that,you know, that has to take place.
That is correct.
How would somebody learn more about your
product, SB Edge, and learnmore about your background?
Okay, if you look at the website, okay,
(20:59):
there's a short bio and then we havescientific articles that deal with this.
And so you can just look up the science,
we can put down and say it,but we will document any statement that we
make on our website with scientificarticles and we can just show you
the articles and you canlook them up yourself.
(21:23):
This has been proven overand over and over and over again.
This is nothing new.
This science has been around for 30,50 years about joint pain.
Okay?
This is not a new thing.
It's just that we're one of the first
people to come out with a moleculethat can repair it the fastest.
Now, if you do something else,
(21:43):
it might take a year because most ofthat molecule you're taking is damaged.
There might be a small amount of active
a one, three has a verysmall amount of this.
You'd have to take ten times one and three
to get rid of just whatone X of ours would do.
We are the best in the market.
We are the best your bodyhas ever seen to repair.
(22:05):
I'm just looking online here.
The website is SB Edge.
Edge.Correct.
And I can see where I can see your bio
and I also see the medicalarticles is what it's listed as.
So that would be whereall that information is.
People can actually go and actually seeeverything you're saying is actually
backed up with case studiesand with medical information.
(22:27):
That's right.
It is solid proof that ourproduct has worked.
And we've done it in trials 20 years.
We can go back and original research,
but a lot of people ours is expensivebecause we just don't take a cow hide
from Brazil, stick it in acidand make it soluble and dry it.
(22:50):
You can call it collagen,but it's been extremely it's damaged
collagen that you're taking in,the one and the three type products.
And so it probably has five to 10%
of the activity it should have hadbecause it was made water soluble.
And the powerful acid that it took
to digest it has destroyedthe important markers on it.
(23:13):
I think something important,and I picked this up from the last time we
talked, was that you werealso a US made product.
You're very strong on traceability,
so you know exactly where things camefrom, all the quality and all that.
And that would be another important thing,is that the quality that you're offering
is also superior to what a lotof other companies are offering.
Yeah, we agree.
(23:34):
We're totally like you said,we're FDA regulated.
We have traceability on every bottle.
We could tell you where the cartilagecame from, what slaughterhouse in the US.
That it was produced,and we could show you the recipe that we
used and the activity we foundon it before we put it in the pill.
(23:54):
Is this important for women?
That was one of the articles you're
discussing with me betweenmen and women, right?
Just a medical fact that when women hitmenopause, the next 20 years,
between 40 and 60,their body will lose 40% to 50%
of the collagen just because they havegone through this experience of menopause.
(24:16):
And it'll cause collagen loss, wrinkles.
It will cause issues with digestion,it will cause bone getting
tender and losing its its ability,and it'll cause effect on hair.
And so we do have articles on ourwebsite dealing with those issues.
Also about for women.
(24:38):
This is a big deal for women.
Besides their joints, it wouldbe important for their skin.
In about a couple of months,all those most wrinkles can be gone.
And this is all signed stuff.
We have pictures of women with a wrinkle,and three months later they don't have it.
(24:58):
So you don't have to listen to us.
We can just show you all the scientific
data, how it really works on women who aregoing through menopause,
and it's a tremendousshock to their systems what happens.
And very few people know that theylose 40% to 50% in 20 years.
And so brittle bones, wrinkles,
(25:19):
hair that falls out,and joint pain can affect women.
And so we've been hitting that pretty
hard, telling women that if you'rein that age, we hear women just report
to us that it has been so importantin their lives to have taken it.
Again, this has been as I said,
(25:39):
I'm looking at the website,there's a lot of articles on there.
And I mean, what I like isthat it's not just marketing fluff.
It's actually you can actuallysee what this can do.
And you're giving people the scienceand the information to make the right
decisions and they need to understand allof the things that we're talking about.
So I thank you for it's been a greatpodcast because I think you're giving
(26:02):
information and you're kind of givingthe reality of what's out there and what
people need to understand for thisto effectively help them.
I'll give you the last word.
If there's anything you'dlike to add on to summarize.
Well, thank you for lettingme be on today.
Really, we want to getthe accurate information out.
(26:22):
Our health is very important to us.
Our gut health, our bone health,
our skin health, all this healthis so important as we get aging.
There's an assault on our health justbecause of what we're doing with aging.
A lot of it is caused by loss of collagen
either in your skin,your blood vessels we'll someday we'll
(26:46):
have to talk about what happens when yourblood vessels
are affected by loss of collagen and theyget hard and they get hardening
of the arteries and that instantlyleads to brain problems like dementia.
It's all can be traced back to bloodvessels in your body that are losing their
collagen, becoming brittle, slowingthe process of blood to the brain.
(27:10):
And everybody will agree to right nowthe scientists that dementia is mainly
caused by a lack of blood flow to thebrain that is all over the science.
So we all want to worry about ourthinking process, memory.
We are really going to show you that if wecan improve blood flow to the brain,
(27:32):
you will have a healthy mental health anda healthy brain affects your entire body.
Well again, I can't think enough.
We had Dr.
Kramer on once before and we wanted him
back because there was just so much moreand we had a lot of people listen
to the first podcast and they've givenus feedback which we always encourage.
(27:56):
People have to listen if they havequestions, definitely subscribe
to the channel and certainlycontact us with questions.
But again, thank you very much for a veryinformative lecture and discussion on it.
I think it's been very helpful and Ireally hope people will take to heart
everything that you've talked aboutand we will link your website
(28:17):
and information about your companyin the show notes on the podcast.
So again just my very much thank you
for taking the time out and spendingsome time with us and thank.
You for having me on your show today.
We'd like to thank youfor listening to our podcast.
We're very interested in hearing your
thoughts about our podcastand invite you to contact us.
(28:39):
If you've enjoyed this podcast,
please subscribe to our channeland share the link with a friend you.
A few months ago we had Dr.
Alan Kramer as a guest on our podcast
to discuss starting a small businessmanufacturing collagen supplements to help
people with joint pain and explain how hegot started, his background and how
collagen supplements actuallyhelp people with joint pain.
Since then, we've had many people contact
us to tell us that they have found somecompanies promoting a 30 day collagen
(00:23):
challenge onlinefor treating joint campaign.
After doing some online research,we found that several companies were
promoting this claim and feltit was best to have Dr.
Kramer on again for his expertisewith collagen supplements and his thoughts
on the subject today on a special followup edition of Small Business Talks.
(00:46):
There's a lot of hype,especially on the internet,
about collagen supplements and there'seven a lot of companies saying a 30 day
collagen challenge is iswhat they're recommending.
And we really want to discuss,
is 30 days really enough to be able tomake the changes to provide joint health?
Today with us we've got Dr.
(01:07):
Allen Cramer, president of Sue Biochemicaland owner of SB Edge Supplements to help
us sort through the hype and thereality of collagen supplements.
And that 30 days.
We should really be looking at 90 daychallenge, not a 30 day challenge.
So welcome to the podcast Dr.Kramer.
(01:29):
How are you doing today?
Hey, thank you.
Glad to be here today to be with you.
Let's, let's just start out with we'regoing to get into the specifics of it.
There's a lot of people out therepromoting, you know,
collagen supplements and all you needis 30 days to get involved in it.
And in our last discussion we talked about
(01:49):
the process and thingsthat were involved in it.
Is that an effective saying or is
that kind of like just is itmore hype to say 30 days?
Well, it's a hype, okay?
Generally speaking,a person, when they experience a collagen
loss, which could be osteoporosis or someother situations,
(02:10):
that means that the cartilage has beendamaged to such an extent that you're
hitting the nerves that areembedded in the cartilage.
And then when you start having motion,those nerves send a signal which is pain,
which is telling you that there'ssomething amiss, there's something not
(02:31):
working quite right in your cartilage,your bones.
Today we're going to talk mainly about
bone health or joint healthand there's something wrong.
Okay.
It's a signal thatthe cartilage isn't the way it should be.
What can cause some of these issueswith cartilage damage and all that?
(02:53):
Is it just age or what are someof the things that cause that?
Okay, there are three causes.
Number one is age.
As you get older, sometimes the mechanismfor rebuilding the cartilage is slower
than the mechanism that isdestroying naturally.
Your cartilage hasa turnover in your body.
(03:15):
That means some of the old cartilagemolecules are replaced with new ones.
Now, especially in the joints,
there is a turnoverand so you have some of the molecules
being, I'm going to say the word removedand the new ones are following it.
(03:35):
But now with activity,that's the normal side.
But with normal activity,
the stress on the jointcauses it to wear out quicker
and it's only renewed orreplaced at a certain speed.
And if the damage is greater thanthe ability to repair the damage,
(03:58):
you hit what they call yournerves and it becomes painful.
That's a signal that your cartilage.
You either have to slow down the use there
and have the cartilage get caught up oryou have to tell the cartilage to speed up
and keep growing becauseyou have more activity.
Why is 30 days not enough timefor this to do the job right?
(04:22):
Okay, the reason it can't go yet is
there are cells that have to be toldto start making additional cartilage.
So when you experience pain,there's a three steps.
Number one, you have to repair thecartilage that's underneath the joint.
Then you make a protective coating on top
(04:45):
of the joint wherethe joint meets the joint.
That is a cartilage cover.
And then there's a fluid in between those
two so that when the joints move flexible,they are lubricated and they are healthy.
Both sides, the two sides of the joint are
both healthy and there's a lubricationand then there's pain free.
(05:08):
Okay,
I'm going to delve a little bit moreinto that as well because obviously
there's different typesof collagen out there.
Is there a specific type of collagen
suited better than another onefor doing repair?
Why is 30 days not enough timefor this to do the job right?
Okay, the reason it can't go yet is
(05:31):
there are cells that have to be toldto start making additional cartilage.
So when you experience pain,there's a three steps.
Number one, you have to repair thecartilage that's underneath the joint.
Then you make a protective coating on top
of the joint wherethe joint meets the joint.
(05:53):
That is a cartilage cover.
And then there's a fluid in between those
two so that when the joints move flexible,they are lubricated and they are healthy.
Both sides, the two sides of the joint are
both healthy and there's a lubricationand then there's pain free.
(06:14):
Okay,
I'm going to delve a little bit moreinto that as well because obviously
there's different typesof collagen out there.
Is there a specific type of collagen
suited better than another onefor doing repair?
Yes.
Your body has to be toldthat repair is going to happen.
Everybody can have pain and most peoplejust mask the pain with pain relievers.
(06:40):
That does not improve the abilityto replace the damaged cartilage.
Collagen has to have,I'm going to use the word a tag
on the collagen molecule that says youshould go and repair your other collagen
now, if your collagen is water soluble,you have damaged that tag.
(07:05):
And that tag isn't there really,to trigger your body to make new collagen,
it has to be triggered by a mechanism thatis really only on the type two collagen.
And we can go into all that.
But there's a tag on the side that saysyou have to, and it tells you how to do
(07:28):
it, so it will instruct the bodyhow to produce new collagen.
There are big fancy words like osteoclast,and those are the cells that go and they
have to be triggered to startmaking new collagen.
They make it slowly, but this tag says you
have to speed up the productionof the collagen in that joint that's been
(07:50):
worn out by stress or by action,or is there a specific.
Type of supplement of collagen that people
should be looking for that would bemore effective than another one?
Okay.
Generally speaking,the mechanism for triggering the formation
(08:12):
of the cartilage is foundon the molecule itself,
but 90% of it is destroyed by the moleculeshould maintain its integrity.
When you make it water soluble,you chop it up into little tiny fragments,
little threads, and theylose their integrity.
(08:33):
And the water soluble molecules will nothave the ability to trigger the response
that the body is looking for to regrowthe collagen in the joints.
How would somebody know it is a water
based collagen product versusa non water based?
If it's soluble in water,
(08:55):
if you can just pour it in your glass,it's water soluble.
Our product is insoluble.Got it.
Do they ever mentionthat on the packaging?
Insoluble or soluble?
You never want to mention that.Okay.
Okay.Got it.
So looking at that, I noticed also, like,the SP edge is a type two collagen.
(09:18):
Maybe just give us a brief overview.
What are, what are the different types?
How many different types are there
and maybe a littlebackground on each one of them.
Okay, well, collagen is a molecule and ithas a certain molecular structure
and depends where the collagen came from,determines its structure.
(09:40):
Okay.
And so your collagen is found in skin.
That's a certain type.
And then there's collagen in jointsand then there's collagen in your bones.
Collagen gives strength to your bones,and that's important.
And for skin, collagen forms the structure
underneath the skin thatgives the skin support.
(10:02):
And when you lose that support,you get a wrinkle.
That means the collagen in your skin is
not being maintained enough and it'llbreak down and it's not replaced.
And that forms a wrinkle.
So that's the other kind.
It's skin, it's a wrinkle on bones.
It's weak, weak bones.
But in joints, it's painful.
(10:23):
So one of the recommendations that I think
we're we're we're making here is that itreally we should be looking at a 90 day,
if we want to call it a collagenchallenge, a 90 day versus a 30 day,
simply because of the process of your bodyneeding to be able to make all these
adjustments so that it'seffectively working.
Let me answer that in two sentences, okay?
(10:45):
Your damaged collagenlooks like sandpaper.
On sandpaper, a joint,
both sides are damaged, and where theycome into contact, they are rough.
And by that rough, you hit nerves.
And every time your jointmoves, there is pain.
And that's called a worn out jointbecause it's exposing the nerves.
(11:07):
Damaged joint looks like sandpaper.
On sandpaper, there are pits, okay?
And every time you move,it hurts because it's friction.
Right.So it takes 30 days for us to start
filling up the pits to make it a levelsurface for the next section
(11:28):
of the collagen, which is the skin on topof it so that this skin can be lubricated,
so that the two sides of the jointare smooth and lubricated.
The day you were born,you got to have a joint that's smooth,
(11:49):
lubricated, and then the nervesare covered so there's no pain.
You do a bovine type collagen, correct?Yes.
Okay,
that is any specific advantage of bovineover what other type of collagen is there?
(12:10):
One of the main ones is a lot of timesthere's some fish,
a lot of people fish bryproductsare turned into fish collagen.
If you look at most collagens,which are called type one and Three,
they come from cow hides from Brazil,and they just take a height of a cow
and they put it in a solution of acid,and they just make it soluble,
(12:32):
and they just literally destroy itwith acid, and it becomes soluble.
They dry that.
And 75% of the collagen you see
on in a store, it's called type oneand three, and it comes from the skin
of cows, and it has maybe a purpose,but it's probably only 10% of the activity
(12:53):
of a collagen that camefrom where we get ours.
Okay?Ours is not from the skin.
The type two collagen,
there are a couple of other ones,but the bovine is actually the best one.
It triggers your body.
There is a molecule that goes right
into your body, and it triggersthere's an osteoblast and an osteoclast.
(13:16):
Osteoclass is the cell that isthe builder of collagen.
It's your collagen builder.
It's a cell that goes to work,
and he just makes collagen all day longsomewhere, and he is only told to work
when he is getting the contactfrom a certain molecule,
and that will be the molecule that's foundon the side of the type two collagen.
(13:39):
Okay.
That's important because that's somethingyou need to look at,
because realizing that you need to havethe trigger first before you can really
have any kind of moving forward in reliefand in rebuilding the college in them.
You got it right.
Anything else that weshould know as a consumer?
What should we know?
And look for when we look at a collegeand supplement, what are some realistic
(14:03):
expectations and what are things asa consumer we should be looking at?
Collagen comes from a type oneand three, which is skin, right?
Collagen type two comesfrom another part of the animal.
And right now we're usingthis from atrachia.
And atrachia is strongand it's kind of tough.
Okay?
And it is a fibrous molecule,and it's flexible and strong.
(14:28):
And those are the two things,and it won't wear out right away.
And the second thing, it has the ability,
like a freakya, it can move backand forth, being very flexible.
And that's what you want to findwhen you have, like, a joint.
Most joints are flexible and you'd like
to see the ability that movementin the joint doesn't cause pain.
(14:49):
I should have asked this earlier,
and I think for our listeners is maybethis is not your opinion,
but maybe if you give a little bit of yourbackground to explain how come you know so
much about supplements,collagen supplements?
Okay, first of all,I have an academic background, basically.
I almost have, like,a PhD in protein chemistry.
(15:11):
I've spent years of researchat the National Institute of Health
and other places doing yearsof research on proteins.
They were other proteins.
But you have to know what a protein does.
And a protein has a unique every protein
has a unique fingerprint whenit is allowed in nature.
(15:32):
But if it's destroyed, it's like havinga protein is like a roadmap on your life.
It forms a special place.
That protein could be in a skin oryour eyes or your heart or your lungs.
They're all proteins,
and they all have a signal that tellsthem to repair the damage.
(15:58):
It's a living system.Living system.
And if it's not taken care of,you can have heart damage.
You can have damage to your intestines.
You can have damage to your bones.
You can have skin damage.
In a minute, we'll talk about if you want
to hit about the other thing isthe collagen loss on bones is the joint.
But the main thing we have iscollagen loss in your skin.
(16:21):
And this is off the point.
But when you are looking at your skin,and especially for men and women as they
get older, the collagen isthe scaffold that holds your skin up.
A breakdown in your collagen underthe skin will form a wrinkle.
(16:42):
That just means there's a ditch,and that is collagen underneath.
That wrinkle has been broken.
It'll take only really the dyke twocollagen is the one that will build up
that wrinkle underneath, and youcan actually see wrinkles go away.
We have all the science that show that if
(17:03):
you want to get rid of the wrinkles,that's not joints.
The collagen that we have definitely willremove most of the wrinkles on your face.
Our body is all collagenwe have collagen in your intestines.
And that can cause pain becauseyour intestines has to be coated
(17:25):
with a collagen surface so that the acidsand the bases and all the different foods
you send through there iscorrectly processed by your body.
But it shouldn't damage the intestinethat it's going through.
And you can be infected and you get
ulcerative colitis and you can get allthese different things, basically,
are caused by a breakdown of the collagen,allowing the molecules of food to get
(17:50):
into the bloodstream,which causes a violent reaction.
You really want to maintain the integrityof the intestine, but that's part of it.
But today we're just talking about joints.
But joints are so important,too, for flexibility.
So you have a damaged joint and itlooks like sandpaper on sandpaper.
That's what it looks like.
It'll take at least one month to fillup the sandpaper and make it smooth.
(18:18):
Those dimples,that rough structure has to be made
smooth, like a sheet of paperagain, like it started.
Those molecules have to work pretty hard
to fill in those gaps that werecaused by the damage.
It looks like sandpaper.
You have to make sandpaper into a nice
sheet of white paperand the collagen will do it.
(18:40):
But it takes time.
It has to start working and it has
to build that scaffolding backup to make it smooth on top.
That takes at least 30 dayswith the type collagen tube.
Then once you get the surface,they want that surface to be thicker.
You should have the collagen on your bone.
If you look at it,it's probably five or 6 CM thick.
(19:03):
So it's absorbent.
That is your shock absorber.
So you have to have a collagen sheathon both sides to absorb shock.
And so you got to make that collagenfirst, get it to the surface.
Then you have to form the collagen sheetunderneath so that the other side,
the collagen sheet, you'll have twonice pieces of paper looking like that.
(19:28):
And then between the third month,it has to start lubricating those again.
So you have two smooth surface
with a lubricant that willtake 90 days, minimum.
It could take as much as 120,but you will get there.
We've got all the science,all the clinical trials.
We've got people who show you that take
an X ray of it when they are damaged,they'll take an X ray.
(19:51):
30 days later, sure enough, there it is.
They take an X ray.
60 days later, they cansee it in an X ray.
90 days, they can just seethat it's almost normal.
So the clinical proof is unmistakable.
We know it works.
It's been proven overand over and over again.
After 90 days, you can regrow the collagenthrough the molecule that we're using.
(20:16):
That is very important because I think,
like I said, when you go onlineand you type it in, it's 30 days.
30 days, 30 days.
I know in our previous conversations,
I know there was a process and it's likewe need to help people understand that.
They need to be lookingat why 30 versus 90.
And I think what you just explained reallydetails out there's a reason for it.
(20:39):
It's not a marketing thing,
it's it's a scientific process that,you know, that has to take place.
That is correct.
How would somebody learn more about your
product, SB Edge, and learnmore about your background?
Okay, if you look at the website, okay,
(20:59):
there's a short bio and then we havescientific articles that deal with this.
And so you can just look up the science,
we can put down and say it,but we will document any statement that we
make on our website with scientificarticles and we can just show you
the articles and you canlook them up yourself.
(21:23):
This has been proven overand over and over and over again.
This is nothing new.
This science has been around for 30,50 years about joint pain.
Okay?
This is not a new thing.
It's just that we're one of the first
people to come out with a moleculethat can repair it the fastest.
Now, if you do something else,
(21:43):
it might take a year because most ofthat molecule you're taking is damaged.
There might be a small amount of active
a one, three has a verysmall amount of this.
You'd have to take ten times one and three
to get rid of just whatone X of ours would do.
We are the best in the market.
We are the best your bodyhas ever seen to repair.
(22:05):
I'm just looking online here.
The website is SB Edge.
Edge.Correct.
And I can see where I can see your bio
and I also see the medicalarticles is what it's listed as.
So that would be whereall that information is.
People can actually go and actually seeeverything you're saying is actually
backed up with case studiesand with medical information.
(22:27):
That's right.
It is solid proof that ourproduct has worked.
And we've done it in trials 20 years.
We can go back and original research,
but a lot of people ours is expensivebecause we just don't take a cow hide
from Brazil, stick it in acidand make it soluble and dry it.
(22:50):
You can call it collagen,but it's been extremely it's damaged
collagen that you're taking in,the one and the three type products.
And so it probably has five to 10%
of the activity it should have hadbecause it was made water soluble.
And the powerful acid that it took
to digest it has destroyedthe important markers on it.
(23:13):
I think something important,and I picked this up from the last time we
talked, was that you werealso a US made product.
You're very strong on traceability,
so you know exactly where things camefrom, all the quality and all that.
And that would be another important thing,is that the quality that you're offering
is also superior to what a lotof other companies are offering.
Yeah, we agree.
(23:34):
We're totally like you said,we're FDA regulated.
We have traceability on every bottle.
We could tell you where the cartilagecame from, what slaughterhouse in the US.
That it was produced,and we could show you the recipe that we
used and the activity we foundon it before we put it in the pill.
(23:54):
Is this important for women?
That was one of the articles you're
discussing with me betweenmen and women, right?
Just a medical fact that when women hitmenopause, the next 20 years,
between 40 and 60,their body will lose 40% to 50%
of the collagen just because they havegone through this experience of menopause.
(24:16):
And it'll cause collagen loss, wrinkles.
It will cause issues with digestion,it will cause bone getting
tender and losing its its ability,and it'll cause effect on hair.
And so we do have articles on ourwebsite dealing with those issues.
Also about for women.
(24:38):
This is a big deal for women.
Besides their joints, it wouldbe important for their skin.
In about a couple of months,all those most wrinkles can be gone.
And this is all signed stuff.
We have pictures of women with a wrinkle,and three months later they don't have it.
(24:58):
So you don't have to listen to us.
We can just show you all the scientific
data, how it really works on women who aregoing through menopause,
and it's a tremendousshock to their systems what happens.
And very few people know that theylose 40% to 50% in 20 years.
And so brittle bones, wrinkles,
(25:19):
hair that falls out,and joint pain can affect women.
And so we've been hitting that pretty
hard, telling women that if you'rein that age, we hear women just report
to us that it has been so importantin their lives to have taken it.
Again, this has been as I said,
(25:39):
I'm looking at the website,there's a lot of articles on there.
And I mean, what I like isthat it's not just marketing fluff.
It's actually you can actuallysee what this can do.
And you're giving people the scienceand the information to make the right
decisions and they need to understand allof the things that we're talking about.
So I thank you for it's been a greatpodcast because I think you're giving
(26:02):
information and you're kind of givingthe reality of what's out there and what
people need to understand for thisto effectively help them.
I'll give you the last word.
If there's anything you'dlike to add on to summarize.
Well, thank you for lettingme be on today.
Really, we want to getthe accurate information out.
(26:22):
Our health is very important to us.
Our gut health, our bone health,
our skin health, all this healthis so important as we get aging.
There's an assault on our health justbecause of what we're doing with aging.
A lot of it is caused by loss of collagen
either in your skin,your blood vessels we'll someday we'll
(26:46):
have to talk about what happens when yourblood vessels
are affected by loss of collagen and theyget hard and they get hardening
of the arteries and that instantlyleads to brain problems like dementia.
It's all can be traced back to bloodvessels in your body that are losing their
collagen, becoming brittle, slowingthe process of blood to the brain.
(27:10):
And everybody will agree to right nowthe scientists that dementia is mainly
caused by a lack of blood flow to thebrain that is all over the science.
So we all want to worry about ourthinking process, memory.
We are really going to show you that if wecan improve blood flow to the brain,
(27:32):
you will have a healthy mental health anda healthy brain affects your entire body.
Well again, I can't think enough.
We had Dr.
Kramer on once before and we wanted him
back because there was just so much moreand we had a lot of people listen
to the first podcast and they've givenus feedback which we always encourage.
(27:56):
People have to listen if they havequestions, definitely subscribe
to the channel and certainlycontact us with questions.
But again, thank you very much for a veryinformative lecture and discussion on it.
I think it's been very helpful and Ireally hope people will take to heart
everything that you've talked aboutand we will link your website
(28:17):
and information about your companyin the show notes on the podcast.
So again just my very much thank you
for taking the time out and spendingsome time with us and thank.
You for having me on your show today.
We'd like to thank youfor listening to our podcast.
We're very interested in hearing your
thoughts about our podcastand invite you to contact us.
(28:39):
If you've enjoyed this podcast,
please subscribe to our channeland share the link with a friend you.
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