May 22, 2022 • 32 mins
Metal fabrication is the unique process of cutting, bending, shaping metal or steel into parts and products from a specific design or set of drawings. Manufacturers use metal fabricators to develop prototypes or small production items that would be cost prohibitive if they were to fabricate it themselves. Likewise, many small businesses may need a custom shelf or piece of equipment to make their operations run smoother and more productive. A Contract Metal Fabricator has both the equipment and expertise to help businesses meet this need and may often be more price economical than expected and may offer a better solution then a generic product that doesn’t meet their requirements.
John Nelson from NSMC has invited our listeners to call him about their metal fabrication needs and will be happy to recommend a reputable fabricator if they cannot produce what you need.
Many Thanks to John Nelson – NSMC – www.nsmc-steel-racks.com
Visit our Companion Blog Site “Small Business Talks” for more details.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
What does a metal fabricator do?
How can they help a small businessor a manufacturing company?
And what should we look for whenwe select one and engage with one?
Today on small business talks,
we've all heard of metal fabricators,
(00:20):
but what do they really offersmall business and manufacturers?
What benefits do they offer to my business
and why should I considerengaging with one?
And what should I knowabout metal fabricators?
To choose one?
To help us better understand these
questions, we have John Nelsonfrom ESCP in Davenport, Iowa.
John, it's great to haveyou on the podcast today.
(00:43):
So my first question is whatdo metal fabricators do?
Well, thank you, Neil.
I appreciate being oncustom metal fabricator is the person
who takes carbon steel and Shears it,saws it, cuts it in some form or fashion
(01:04):
with a laser or whatevermanner they do it in.
And then to make a developed blank.
And with that blank,
then you would form whateverwith the proper engineering and knowing
what we're making, we can use brake diesor press dies and make whatever part.
(01:25):
However a person designsa part, we can make it.
We already have the equipment in house.
Generally, we have most of the equipment.
And I think that was going to be my next
question was going to say,would a business or a manufacturer contact
you, especially if it's a manufacturer,if they already have some equipment,
(01:49):
is there a benefit to contracting outparts of things or we have a new product?
What can you do to offer to help them?
It's the same for an OEM asit is for a mom and pop shop.
We already have gone through the expenseof purchasing the equipment that's needed
(02:12):
to do to custom metal fabricate,whether it be a sheer or saw,
a laser turret pressto punch holes with brake presses
to bend with deep dies or presses to form
(02:33):
metal with as far as deep draw the metal.
And then we have Weld lines.
So it's expensive endeavor to get
into that business as wellas the metal fabrication.
And we also have a medium sizedmachine shop to do machining.
(02:55):
So if you need parts intricately machined
or just holes drilled and tapped,we can do that as well.
So, John,I'm a company or I'm a small manufacturer,
and I've never contractedwith a metal fabrication company.
What should I be asking?
(03:16):
What should I be looking forin choosing a metal fabricator?
Well, that's a great question.
Let's just say thatyou're an OEM like JMTC.
It's a military people who make militaryvehicles, construction vehicles,
(03:40):
agricultural vehicles,basically, that's metal fabrication.
Lots of times they want to assemble it,so they outsource the parts to a guy like
me who has the equipment that's neededto laser cut, bend, form,
(04:01):
drill, paint, ship and delivercomponents to their assembly lines.
So instead of having to have all thosedifferent businesses for all those
different parts that they need to havemade to assemble their vehicle.
They outsource to companies like me.
Maybe I wouldn't do all the work.
It would be spread out amongst several
(04:22):
custom metal fabricators and say if you'rea smaller business, it's the same thing.
If you're selling something or you wantsomething made fabricated out of metal,
you need to have somebody, you need to goto someone who has a shop to do that.
And the best thing is to look online
(04:44):
and look at the reviews and then call thepeople and talk to them on the telephone.
You could call them,but companies like ours will always
be happy to give outreferences if they need them.
One of the thingsthat I noticed on your website and I think
I'm wondering if it's something peopleshould look for is your ISO certification.
(05:06):
And maybe you could say whatthat actually means when people see that.
What does that mean about an organizationlike yours when you're ISO certified?
So our ISO certification, 90 01 20 15is current, I believe, until 2025.
(05:26):
But it's a standard of quality.
So we can't do business with some
companies like Caterpillar or other Ford,
Honda, a lot of companies,we can't do that.
We can't even do work for them unless
(05:47):
we're audited and we either have an ISOcertificate or we work to that standard.
But with having that certificate,
they already knowthat we're audited twice a year and
we hold our quality system to thatstandard as well as our on time delivery.
(06:08):
All of that is rated,measured and reported.
So if I'm a small business ora manufacturer and I'm looking
for a company, an ISO certificationis something I should be.
It kind of tells me that you havea standardization of quality
and that you've met things ratherthan just saying we're quality.
It's kind of a standard that shows youmeet a certain level of quality, correct?
(06:32):
Yeah.See, a lot of people won't know me.
They don't know us, they don'tknow the standard that we work to.
So in a new customer,if you can prove to them that you're ISO
certified, 9001 2015, and that proves thatyou have been audited by a Registrar.
In this case, Perry Johnson may comein and do a two day audit and make certain
(06:55):
that your procedures areup to that standard.
So the good thing about it is that if wedon't know each other and we didn't grow
up together and, you know,I'm a man of my word.
When you see my high school certification,
it's like saying these are good guys,use them excellent.
(07:16):
From the aspect of a new company,I've never approached a metal fabricator
or I've never looked to outsourcesome of my work to somebody.
What are things that I shouldbe prepared to talk about?
What are things that I should ask when I
contact or how should I prepare to getin touch with a company like Escape.
(07:38):
Well, there's quite a spectrum here.
I mean, we make parts that go on cars,trucks, tanks,
and then we also make the well, we havetwo core competencies here at ESCP.
One is to make reusable, shipping racks,
containers, carts, baskets, tables,things for material handling.
(08:01):
And then the other one is to makecomponent parts for our OEM customers.
So it would matter who you are lots
of times in the but it would justmatter from which industry you're from.
And are the things expectations
that people should know about, likeshould they be discussing things like what
the turnaround time is,what is the process?
(08:23):
I guess what I should probably ask firstis when you meet with them,
are you just expecting this to print or doyou talk to them,
understand their situation, kind of helpthem out with those kinds of things.
So let's say you looked at my website
and you call me and you wantto talk about a project.
Of course you want to knowthe price of the object.
And we're selling steel here.
(08:45):
That's metal fabrication.
So it would depend upon how we can buy it.
Are we going to buy a truckloador are we going to buy one sheet?
So the lower volume parts
will always cost have a higher purposecost than the higher volume parts will.
(09:06):
It's all based off the price of steel.
And then, of course, we have our
costs, lights, gas, labor, salaries,insurance, all that kind of stuff.
So
we're a medium sized custom metalfabricator and we do a fair amount of work
for large OEMs, so we're not the cheapestin town, but our work is guaranteed.
(09:31):
That's a good thing to hearon something like that.
One thing that I saw on the websitewas that you do metal stamping.
And I know we've had a discussion about
that, that you specialize, like in deepdraw and the ability to hand transfer.
That is a very good question.
(09:52):
Depending if you're going to havesomething formed,
like the hood of the truck cab orthe fenders or something metal that's
going to be formed, you needto do it in a Press with a die.
So the geometry first has to beapproved and handed over to us.
(10:13):
And we would have to send it to a tool
and die maker to quote a dieusing that geometry to make certain
that we can makea good part with repeatability.
So there would also be
if you need be most people do if you'regoing to do large runs because you would
(10:34):
not only buy the die,you would also get a check fixture to make
certain the part that comesout of the die is correct.
So that's in a stamping press,the brake press is a little different.
I can make one bend if I just have to puta radius in something or put two bends
in something, then I can run it acrossby hand.
(10:59):
We can run it across the brake pressand going back to the stamping press.
When you call our equipment hand transfer,that means that we don't have a robot
that picks up a blank out of a magazineand puts Nested into a Press.
(11:19):
And the feelers on the press say it'sin the right location,
and then it just goes down the line, itsucks, pick it up, they just keep going.
Ours is all done by hand transfer.
We pick up the develop blank,
put Nested into the die,put our hands out,
put them on two buttons, andthe press cycles up and down.
(11:43):
So the difference in there is that handtransfer is a slower cycle time,
but it's for lower volume parts,and that's what we are.
We're a low volume service part providerto all these people that we deal with.
And the OEM that I mentioned earlier.
(12:04):
I noticed you offera precision laser cutting.
It seems to be a big word in the industry
right now, and it seems like there's a lotof things we could maybe just kind
of describe what laser cutting, whyit's used, or what the advantages are.
How do you handle laser cutting?
Well, we have one laser right now.
(12:26):
It's a Cincinnati, and itwill cut up to half an inch.
So anything from half an inchdown we can laser cut on that.
The advantage of laser cutting is that
you nest a sheet of steel with the partson it, and then when you run across
(12:47):
a laser in it, it cuts outthe parts that you want to cut out
and utilizing getting the bestyield of the sheet of steel.
And then that part would go into a brakepress or stamping press and be formed.
But the old way to do itis to shear it or blanket.
(13:11):
And there's a lot more scrapinvolved in doing that.
This way we get the best deal to utilizethe material in the best way is if you
laser cut it, because you can CNC programit to nest it perfectly,
and you just fit each part in there to useas much of the sheet steel as you can.
(13:31):
So you're actually not having to use asmuch material and you're actually reducing
cost because you're notthrowing as much crap out.
Yeah.
We're using the same size sheet,getting a lot more parts out of it.
Right?That's exactly right.
Makes sense.
One of the other things and I think we
also talked about this was aboutyou have kind of an interesting production
welding situation,and maybe you can talk about how you can
(13:55):
expand the size of yourwelding Department.
And it's kind of a two part question.
One is talking about production welding
and how you handle that with the way youhave your welding Department structure.
And the last part wouldbe something interesting.
We talked about the last time was about
the different types of welding where youWeld to spec or Weld to print and a lot
(14:19):
of other companies to reduce costs we'lljust do a I believe it's called stitch
Weld I think you said they do like astitch Weld or something like that Well.
I don't want to sound like I'm talking bad
about anybody but some peoplewhen times get tough people try to find
a way to cut corners and lots of timesthey'll shorten the length of their wealth
(14:45):
whereas ESCP we take pridein the fact that we Weld to print.
If the print says they want a completeWeld then we complete welded.
We don't make one inch thick Weldin the same six inch.
If it's a six inch piece and we welded allsix inches somebody was stitched welding
(15:08):
will put three one inch welds in thereand save three inches of Weld
that would affect the integrity of theWeld I would think it certainly could.
So that's something again,if this is something that's important
to your business or you're going to belifting something heavy I know like you
make glass racks and things likethat that's heavy duty stuff.
(15:29):
So that what I think would be important
that when you contacta metal fabrication company like ESCP
that they would want to know somethinglike that and know that they're going
to get really not just the qualitybut the integrity that what they're
building is actually going to be of valueI know exactly what you're saying.
(15:49):
Once again I don't want to call anybodyout there saying that they're doing
anything illegal butif the print says they want to complete
Weld or a half inch fillit or per the instruction.
That's what we're going to do.We're going to follow the print and.
(16:12):
Back to the original part of the questionof the way the production is set up.
That was one thing I was noticing is
that you kind of have your welding set upso that you can't actually have it
in different ships or in different areasso that if people come in with a big
order, you can expand or contractthe way you do welding.
Yes.
We have 34 Weld style stations, 34 Weldstations on four different Weld lines.
(16:37):
So I have the capabilityto move those around or we do.
And
if a job like somebody ordered 4000baskets from no, 6000 baskets from US tubs
steel, tubs, steel sighted,48 X 48, 30 inches tall.
(16:59):
And so with that, we justconstantly keep that going.
We can dedicate a line to that and then
another customer had a large rack orderand we dedicate a line to that.
But that's still these two lines for usto Weld two lines for production welding
and three or four other stations for othertypes of welding, maybe lower volume or
(17:24):
maybe high volume, but only takesone person to make one piece.
So you can do it at a station.
We have the ability to basicallycustomize our well shop to the workload.
Does that make sense?
(17:44):
And that would be important because if I'm
a manufacturer or a small businessis one of the concerns that people come
to you with is do youhave the time to do this?
Do you have the capacity to do you havethe people to do something like this?
Well, that is always a challenge,is to get good people.
We have two shifts here five days a week.
(18:07):
We work an eight hourshift in four days a week.
At second shift, we work Mondaythrough Thursday, ten hour shift.
So that's the machine shop,the paint Department, Weld Department,
the stamping Department,and the custom metal fabrication
Department, which is Shears, saws,lasers, presses, all that stuff.
(18:31):
Let's say we're making a large order
for somebody and we have the peopleand someone else comes in and we can open
up another station to do their work,then that's what we'll do.
Makes sense.
I think one of the things I'd like
to bring out is also let's focus on ESCPnow, because
(18:51):
in researching this and getting readyfor the podcast,
as I go out and look at what are companiesthere's a big range
metal Fab can fall into a guy doingwelding out of his garage
to a large company to beable to do things like that.
And I would probably say,what would you say
an ESCP has been around for a whileand you've got a good clientele based what
(19:16):
would you say the secretto your success has been?
Why do people keep coming back to you?
What would say the one thing that makes
you kind of stand outfrom other companies.
Well, quality and on time delivery.
We have really good people and wetreat our customers very well.
(19:36):
So we have customer service repsthat we assign to different customers.
We have a quoting Department or a sales
Department who bringsin RFQ requests for quotes.
We get them quoted by oneor more estimator.
Then we get that approved to the approvalcommittee and make sure that we're
(19:58):
charging the right priceand we've included everything.
And then they get signed off on and thesalesman gives the quote to the customer.
And if they have questions,they'll call us.
Or if they are satisfied with our quote,they'll send us a purchase order.
And in that quote,in that quote, there'll be a lead time.
(20:18):
So we're looking at the material that we
have to buy, what the grade is, what'sthe availability and how much we can get.
And so a lot of it has to dowith the availability of material.
And then, of course, we have our workload.
So whichever area it has to go through,
they all have the one, two, three or fourweek lead time or more we've gotten here.
(20:44):
I hate to say this on the podcast,
but the truth is that we have sometimesbeen so busy in the time that I've been
here that our lead timehas been out to 16 weeks.
And I think that's important for people
to understand is what it actually takes,not to scare off anyone.
But realistically understand that one
(21:05):
of the things you need to lookat is the turnaround time.
I have an idea.
I have a project and what's a reasonableturnaround time on something like that.
And I think the other portion of it isjust like you mentioned,
things about what type of steel,the print, all the specs
from what I'm hearing from theconversation, you're very thorough.
(21:25):
You've got a plan.
And that's something I would thinkthat would be important to a company is
that you have the process downbecause of your experience.
You know what it's going to taketo be able to do these things.
It's that's exactly right.
My job as a salesperson sales manager,
when I'm talking to a customer,is to ask the questions I need to ask
(21:49):
to ascertain what it is I got to doso that I can get it quoted properly.
And when I report back to the customer,I want to give them as much accurate
information as I can becausethey're going to plan off that.
And just like you know,you're only as good as your work.
So you want to make certain that whatyou tell the customer is right.
(22:09):
And if it changes, you gotto tell them right away.
And then that's what we try to dobecause things change all the time.
Sometimes you can't get a driverto drive a truck to get a load of steel.
What I said earlier is that we have to buy
the material and there'sa lead time for that.
They might have to roll it at the mill.
(22:30):
And then you have to get a driver
and a truck underneath the loadto get it to your place.
And then lately it's been very hard to get
a driver and a trucking firm to pickstuff up in a timely manner.
And that's one of the reasons why I wanted
to bring that up was in this,as we have people talking about this
and saying, what can I dowith a metal fabricator?
(22:51):
What can they do for my business is
understanding all these different elementsso that they're getting a little bit more
knowledge of understanding what to expect,how do they interact with a metal
fabrication company,and what should they look for so that they
don't go into it and then have certainideas and they have more
(23:12):
of an understanding of thisis what to look for.
I think you've already hit someof the things like number one ISO
certification shows that you don't knowwho I am, and it's kind of a standardized
inspection or a standard that you'vemet to be able to do that.
And then the whole idea of putting
the planning and having the estimatorskind of lets you put your entire
(23:35):
production process so that it matcheswith what they're looking for.
But if a company is looking for thingslooking for, like consistent production or
they want to look for what shouldI be looking for in a company?
These are definitely some of the traitsthat I think they should be looking for.
Well, you know,
if someone is looking for a custom metalfabricator,
(23:58):
let's say that you realize that you needsome reusable stacking racks or shelves or
some load tables for whatever reason,and you've never had them made before.
It's good to know who you're dealing with.
So looking for someone who's isolate
(24:21):
certified is important,or maybe your dad, maybe
you know somebody who's in that business,and that would really help because if they
can't do it, they couldtell you who could.
And that's the way that I am.
If somebody approaches me and I can't dowhat they want, I tell them where to go.
(24:44):
I recommend I know people in the industry
that do other things becausewe work together all the time.
So I like to do my friends favorsjust like they do my favorites.
I get recommended a lot by vendors
and other people, and I dothe same thing for them.
That's good to know.
And I think that's important for companiesbecause if they come in with something
(25:06):
that maybe it's not exactly the areathat you work within that you can make
those kind of recommendations and you'rereally looking out for the customer.
And I think that's important for peopleto realize that that's something to look
for in a company is that you understandthe project, you get to really ask all
the questions upfront so that you'regetting them exactly what they want
(25:27):
and there's no surprises,I think, is what it comes out to.
I know this might sound a little cheeky,
but my customers over the last 16 years,17 years, have become my friends.
We're friends.
You know what I mean?
I help them support their families,and they help me support mine.
(25:49):
And it's a matter of trust.
So any last parting things on this,anything?
I'm looking down through things.
So I'm looking at your capabilities.
I'm on your website right now,
and I'm looking at you dothe contract manufacturing.
So you actually run productionfor some parts for some companies.
(26:10):
Yes, we do.
And you do the precision laser cutting,
you do the welding, you do metal stamping,CNC machining.
And we talked briefly on that.
You also have the ability to domachining on parts and components.
That is correct.
What is Flow Drill and Flow Tap?
Flow Drill and Flow Tap is a systemdesigned by a company called Flow Drill,
(26:34):
which instead of drillinga hole in a part.
Okay, let's just say that you havea bracket that you're putting together
and you're going to screwa mirror to it, right.
Okay.Like for a car.
So that's the rear view mirror on the sideof the truck, on the bracket itself.
Instead of drilling a hole and puttinga nut and a Bolt in it,
(26:57):
we have a ceramic Bush that we get goingreally fast, and it makes a real hot Bush.
And then the point drillsthrough, makes a hole.
And then we come back in with the tap.
And nowif you keep going with that video there,
you'll see that you makethe Weld nut part of the tube.
(27:22):
So the instance of failure hasbeen reduced to almost zero.
Oh, wow.Okay.
Because if you make that just drill a holewith a CNC and put a nut and a Bolt
in there for the mirror, that nut can comeoff of the Bolt to break the work loose.
(27:44):
But if you heat up that metal,push it all the way through,
and then come back with a tap and tapthat Bush, that half inch Bush that you've
left through there and put thread in it,you can
drill your mirror or screw your mirrorright straight to the structural tube.
(28:06):
Very cool.
I hope I explained that right.
I think you did.
But on our website, there'sa great explanation of folder.
And then the last thing I saw,I just want to touch base.
We kind of touch base on her earlier wasand that's the other thing I'm noticing is
that you can really take thisfrom beginning all the way to end.
(28:28):
I mean, you can actually fabricate,you can belt, you can stamp,
bend, you can machine, and you caneven finish the part afterwards.
We go right from A to Z so it comes
in the door and it's stealing and itleaves in a package all ready to go.
(28:48):
And I'm looking hereand I'm seeing 850 ft.
Conveyor line.
That's a powder coat paint line.That's right.
Okay.
That conveyor is 850ft long.
That gets it througha two station pre wash.
Itgoes through a drying phase and then goes
(29:08):
into the paint booth by twelve footby twelve ft.
By twelve ft.I think it is or the other way around.
Anyway, once it goes through there,
gets painted, then it takes a right turn,goes in and takes it to the oven,
takes another right turn, goes down 50ft,makes a turn at the end, comes back 50ft.
(29:31):
So it's in there for 100ft at 410 degrees.
And it bakes on whatever we put on there.
And that seems to be the choice now,especially for a lot of metal fabrication.
Is powder coating versus justthe old fashioned paint?
Yes.
Powder coating isyou have to take a knife to scrape.
(29:54):
You really have to hit it hard,and then it just gouges into it.
It's part of the steel.
It's not like it won't.
I mean, if you don't pretreat the material
properly, it'll Peel rightoff just like wet paint.
But if you treat it, if you do the properpretreat and you paint it and Bake it on.
Right, it's not coming off,you could Bake it into walls.
(30:16):
So that's why you have the cleaning firstand the stations it's set up that it is on
to get the surface prepared,to take the powder, you.
Have to treat the surfaceof the material first.
That's right.
Excellent.
So if somebody were to say, okay,I have an idea, or I have a project or I'm
(30:38):
a manufacturer, what's the best waythat they can get in touch with you?
Www.Dot.
Escp.
Net and if you'd like to call me,you can call 180-39-7915.
Just ask for John Nelson.Okay.
Well, John, thank you very much.
(30:58):
This has been an exceptionally good
podcast and very enlightening as to whatmetal fabricators do for people.
I hope it was if anybody has anyquestions, have them call me.
There's a lot of information to put out
in a short amount of time,but I hope I did justice.
I think we definitely covered a lot
(31:19):
of areas, and I think it'll be veryhelpful people that are kind of going down
this Avenue and say, how do I goabout this and what can we do?
So I think it was overall very.
Good podcast along those lines.
I would like to say if you're out there
and you're looking for a custom metalfabricator, if you call me and tell me
what you're looking for, if I can't do it,I'll tell you where to go.
(31:40):
I know people in the industryall over the country.
That's a nice offer because I thinkthat to me says a lot because when
a company says if we can't do it,we just kind of hang up the phone type
thing and that says a lot about yourintegrity and you as a business that hey
if we can't do it, we can recommendsomebody that would be able to do it.
I think that's a greatpoint to add on there.
(32:03):
Thank you.Okay.
So thanks, John.
You have a good afternoon.
Afternoon.Bye.
What does a metal fabricator do?
How can they help a small businessor a manufacturing company?
And what should we look for whenwe select one and engage with one?
Today on small business talks,
we've all heard of metal fabricators,
(00:20):
but what do they really offersmall business and manufacturers?
What benefits do they offer to my business
and why should I considerengaging with one?
And what should I knowabout metal fabricators?
To choose one?
To help us better understand these
questions, we have John Nelsonfrom ESCP in Davenport, Iowa.
John, it's great to haveyou on the podcast today.
(00:43):
So my first question is whatdo metal fabricators do?
Well, thank you, Neil.
I appreciate being oncustom metal fabricator is the person
who takes carbon steel and Shears it,saws it, cuts it in some form or fashion
(01:04):
with a laser or whatevermanner they do it in.
And then to make a developed blank.
And with that blank,
then you would form whateverwith the proper engineering and knowing
what we're making, we can use brake diesor press dies and make whatever part.
(01:25):
However a person designsa part, we can make it.
We already have the equipment in house.
Generally, we have most of the equipment.
And I think that was going to be my next
question was going to say,would a business or a manufacturer contact
you, especially if it's a manufacturer,if they already have some equipment,
(01:49):
is there a benefit to contracting outparts of things or we have a new product?
What can you do to offer to help them?
It's the same for an OEM asit is for a mom and pop shop.
We already have gone through the expenseof purchasing the equipment that's needed
(02:12):
to do to custom metal fabricate,whether it be a sheer or saw,
a laser turret pressto punch holes with brake presses
to bend with deep dies or presses to form
(02:33):
metal with as far as deep draw the metal.
And then we have Weld lines.
So it's expensive endeavor to get
into that business as wellas the metal fabrication.
And we also have a medium sizedmachine shop to do machining.
(02:55):
So if you need parts intricately machined
or just holes drilled and tapped,we can do that as well.
So, John,I'm a company or I'm a small manufacturer,
and I've never contractedwith a metal fabrication company.
What should I be asking?
(03:16):
What should I be looking forin choosing a metal fabricator?
Well, that's a great question.
Let's just say thatyou're an OEM like JMTC.
It's a military people who make militaryvehicles, construction vehicles,
(03:40):
agricultural vehicles,basically, that's metal fabrication.
Lots of times they want to assemble it,so they outsource the parts to a guy like
me who has the equipment that's neededto laser cut, bend, form,
(04:01):
drill, paint, ship and delivercomponents to their assembly lines.
So instead of having to have all thosedifferent businesses for all those
different parts that they need to havemade to assemble their vehicle.
They outsource to companies like me.
Maybe I wouldn't do all the work.
It would be spread out amongst several
(04:22):
custom metal fabricators and say if you'rea smaller business, it's the same thing.
If you're selling something or you wantsomething made fabricated out of metal,
you need to have somebody, you need to goto someone who has a shop to do that.
And the best thing is to look online
(04:44):
and look at the reviews and then call thepeople and talk to them on the telephone.
You could call them,but companies like ours will always
be happy to give outreferences if they need them.
One of the thingsthat I noticed on your website and I think
I'm wondering if it's something peopleshould look for is your ISO certification.
(05:06):
And maybe you could say whatthat actually means when people see that.
What does that mean about an organizationlike yours when you're ISO certified?
So our ISO certification, 90 01 20 15is current, I believe, until 2025.
(05:26):
But it's a standard of quality.
So we can't do business with some
companies like Caterpillar or other Ford,
Honda, a lot of companies,we can't do that.
We can't even do work for them unless
(05:47):
we're audited and we either have an ISOcertificate or we work to that standard.
But with having that certificate,
they already knowthat we're audited twice a year and
we hold our quality system to thatstandard as well as our on time delivery.
(06:08):
All of that is rated,measured and reported.
So if I'm a small business ora manufacturer and I'm looking
for a company, an ISO certificationis something I should be.
It kind of tells me that you havea standardization of quality
and that you've met things ratherthan just saying we're quality.
It's kind of a standard that shows youmeet a certain level of quality, correct?
(06:32):
Yeah.See, a lot of people won't know me.
They don't know us, they don'tknow the standard that we work to.
So in a new customer,if you can prove to them that you're ISO
certified, 9001 2015, and that proves thatyou have been audited by a Registrar.
In this case, Perry Johnson may comein and do a two day audit and make certain
(06:55):
that your procedures areup to that standard.
So the good thing about it is that if wedon't know each other and we didn't grow
up together and, you know,I'm a man of my word.
When you see my high school certification,
it's like saying these are good guys,use them excellent.
(07:16):
From the aspect of a new company,I've never approached a metal fabricator
or I've never looked to outsourcesome of my work to somebody.
What are things that I shouldbe prepared to talk about?
What are things that I should ask when I
contact or how should I prepare to getin touch with a company like Escape.
(07:38):
Well, there's quite a spectrum here.
I mean, we make parts that go on cars,trucks, tanks,
and then we also make the well, we havetwo core competencies here at ESCP.
One is to make reusable, shipping racks,
containers, carts, baskets, tables,things for material handling.
(08:01):
And then the other one is to makecomponent parts for our OEM customers.
So it would matter who you are lots
of times in the but it would justmatter from which industry you're from.
And are the things expectations
that people should know about, likeshould they be discussing things like what
the turnaround time is,what is the process?
(08:23):
I guess what I should probably ask firstis when you meet with them,
are you just expecting this to print or doyou talk to them,
understand their situation, kind of helpthem out with those kinds of things.
So let's say you looked at my website
and you call me and you wantto talk about a project.
Of course you want to knowthe price of the object.
And we're selling steel here.
(08:45):
That's metal fabrication.
So it would depend upon how we can buy it.
Are we going to buy a truckloador are we going to buy one sheet?
So the lower volume parts
will always cost have a higher purposecost than the higher volume parts will.
(09:06):
It's all based off the price of steel.
And then, of course, we have our
costs, lights, gas, labor, salaries,insurance, all that kind of stuff.
So
we're a medium sized custom metalfabricator and we do a fair amount of work
for large OEMs, so we're not the cheapestin town, but our work is guaranteed.
(09:31):
That's a good thing to hearon something like that.
One thing that I saw on the websitewas that you do metal stamping.
And I know we've had a discussion about
that, that you specialize, like in deepdraw and the ability to hand transfer.
That is a very good question.
(09:52):
Depending if you're going to havesomething formed,
like the hood of the truck cab orthe fenders or something metal that's
going to be formed, you needto do it in a Press with a die.
So the geometry first has to beapproved and handed over to us.
(10:13):
And we would have to send it to a tool
and die maker to quote a dieusing that geometry to make certain
that we can makea good part with repeatability.
So there would also be
if you need be most people do if you'regoing to do large runs because you would
(10:34):
not only buy the die,you would also get a check fixture to make
certain the part that comesout of the die is correct.
So that's in a stamping press,the brake press is a little different.
I can make one bend if I just have to puta radius in something or put two bends
in something, then I can run it acrossby hand.
(10:59):
We can run it across the brake pressand going back to the stamping press.
When you call our equipment hand transfer,that means that we don't have a robot
that picks up a blank out of a magazineand puts Nested into a Press.
(11:19):
And the feelers on the press say it'sin the right location,
and then it just goes down the line, itsucks, pick it up, they just keep going.
Ours is all done by hand transfer.
We pick up the develop blank,
put Nested into the die,put our hands out,
put them on two buttons, andthe press cycles up and down.
(11:43):
So the difference in there is that handtransfer is a slower cycle time,
but it's for lower volume parts,and that's what we are.
We're a low volume service part providerto all these people that we deal with.
And the OEM that I mentioned earlier.
(12:04):
I noticed you offera precision laser cutting.
It seems to be a big word in the industry
right now, and it seems like there's a lotof things we could maybe just kind
of describe what laser cutting, whyit's used, or what the advantages are.
How do you handle laser cutting?
Well, we have one laser right now.
(12:26):
It's a Cincinnati, and itwill cut up to half an inch.
So anything from half an inchdown we can laser cut on that.
The advantage of laser cutting is that
you nest a sheet of steel with the partson it, and then when you run across
(12:47):
a laser in it, it cuts outthe parts that you want to cut out
and utilizing getting the bestyield of the sheet of steel.
And then that part would go into a brakepress or stamping press and be formed.
But the old way to do itis to shear it or blanket.
(13:11):
And there's a lot more scrapinvolved in doing that.
This way we get the best deal to utilizethe material in the best way is if you
laser cut it, because you can CNC programit to nest it perfectly,
and you just fit each part in there to useas much of the sheet steel as you can.
(13:31):
So you're actually not having to use asmuch material and you're actually reducing
cost because you're notthrowing as much crap out.
Yeah.
We're using the same size sheet,getting a lot more parts out of it.
Right?That's exactly right.
Makes sense.
One of the other things and I think we
also talked about this was aboutyou have kind of an interesting production
welding situation,and maybe you can talk about how you can
(13:55):
expand the size of yourwelding Department.
And it's kind of a two part question.
One is talking about production welding
and how you handle that with the way youhave your welding Department structure.
And the last part wouldbe something interesting.
We talked about the last time was about
the different types of welding where youWeld to spec or Weld to print and a lot
(14:19):
of other companies to reduce costs we'lljust do a I believe it's called stitch
Weld I think you said they do like astitch Weld or something like that Well.
I don't want to sound like I'm talking bad
about anybody but some peoplewhen times get tough people try to find
a way to cut corners and lots of timesthey'll shorten the length of their wealth
(14:45):
whereas ESCP we take pridein the fact that we Weld to print.
If the print says they want a completeWeld then we complete welded.
We don't make one inch thick Weldin the same six inch.
If it's a six inch piece and we welded allsix inches somebody was stitched welding
(15:08):
will put three one inch welds in thereand save three inches of Weld
that would affect the integrity of theWeld I would think it certainly could.
So that's something again,if this is something that's important
to your business or you're going to belifting something heavy I know like you
make glass racks and things likethat that's heavy duty stuff.
(15:29):
So that what I think would be important
that when you contacta metal fabrication company like ESCP
that they would want to know somethinglike that and know that they're going
to get really not just the qualitybut the integrity that what they're
building is actually going to be of valueI know exactly what you're saying.
(15:49):
Once again I don't want to call anybodyout there saying that they're doing
anything illegal butif the print says they want to complete
Weld or a half inch fillit or per the instruction.
That's what we're going to do.We're going to follow the print and.
(16:12):
Back to the original part of the questionof the way the production is set up.
That was one thing I was noticing is
that you kind of have your welding set upso that you can't actually have it
in different ships or in different areasso that if people come in with a big
order, you can expand or contractthe way you do welding.
Yes.
We have 34 Weld style stations, 34 Weldstations on four different Weld lines.
(16:37):
So I have the capabilityto move those around or we do.
And
if a job like somebody ordered 4000baskets from no, 6000 baskets from US tubs
steel, tubs, steel sighted,48 X 48, 30 inches tall.
(16:59):
And so with that, we justconstantly keep that going.
We can dedicate a line to that and then
another customer had a large rack orderand we dedicate a line to that.
But that's still these two lines for usto Weld two lines for production welding
and three or four other stations for othertypes of welding, maybe lower volume or
(17:24):
maybe high volume, but only takesone person to make one piece.
So you can do it at a station.
We have the ability to basicallycustomize our well shop to the workload.
Does that make sense?
(17:44):
And that would be important because if I'm
a manufacturer or a small businessis one of the concerns that people come
to you with is do youhave the time to do this?
Do you have the capacity to do you havethe people to do something like this?
Well, that is always a challenge,is to get good people.
We have two shifts here five days a week.
(18:07):
We work an eight hourshift in four days a week.
At second shift, we work Mondaythrough Thursday, ten hour shift.
So that's the machine shop,the paint Department, Weld Department,
the stamping Department,and the custom metal fabrication
Department, which is Shears, saws,lasers, presses, all that stuff.
(18:31):
Let's say we're making a large order
for somebody and we have the peopleand someone else comes in and we can open
up another station to do their work,then that's what we'll do.
Makes sense.
I think one of the things I'd like
to bring out is also let's focus on ESCPnow, because
(18:51):
in researching this and getting readyfor the podcast,
as I go out and look at what are companiesthere's a big range
metal Fab can fall into a guy doingwelding out of his garage
to a large company to beable to do things like that.
And I would probably say,what would you say
an ESCP has been around for a whileand you've got a good clientele based what
(19:16):
would you say the secretto your success has been?
Why do people keep coming back to you?
What would say the one thing that makes
you kind of stand outfrom other companies.
Well, quality and on time delivery.
We have really good people and wetreat our customers very well.
(19:36):
So we have customer service repsthat we assign to different customers.
We have a quoting Department or a sales
Department who bringsin RFQ requests for quotes.
We get them quoted by oneor more estimator.
Then we get that approved to the approvalcommittee and make sure that we're
(19:58):
charging the right priceand we've included everything.
And then they get signed off on and thesalesman gives the quote to the customer.
And if they have questions,they'll call us.
Or if they are satisfied with our quote,they'll send us a purchase order.
And in that quote,in that quote, there'll be a lead time.
(20:18):
So we're looking at the material that we
have to buy, what the grade is, what'sthe availability and how much we can get.
And so a lot of it has to dowith the availability of material.
And then, of course, we have our workload.
So whichever area it has to go through,
they all have the one, two, three or fourweek lead time or more we've gotten here.
(20:44):
I hate to say this on the podcast,
but the truth is that we have sometimesbeen so busy in the time that I've been
here that our lead timehas been out to 16 weeks.
And I think that's important for people
to understand is what it actually takes,not to scare off anyone.
But realistically understand that one
(21:05):
of the things you need to lookat is the turnaround time.
I have an idea.
I have a project and what's a reasonableturnaround time on something like that.
And I think the other portion of it isjust like you mentioned,
things about what type of steel,the print, all the specs
from what I'm hearing from theconversation, you're very thorough.
(21:25):
You've got a plan.
And that's something I would thinkthat would be important to a company is
that you have the process downbecause of your experience.
You know what it's going to taketo be able to do these things.
It's that's exactly right.
My job as a salesperson sales manager,
when I'm talking to a customer,is to ask the questions I need to ask
(21:49):
to ascertain what it is I got to doso that I can get it quoted properly.
And when I report back to the customer,I want to give them as much accurate
information as I can becausethey're going to plan off that.
And just like you know,you're only as good as your work.
So you want to make certain that whatyou tell the customer is right.
(22:09):
And if it changes, you gotto tell them right away.
And then that's what we try to dobecause things change all the time.
Sometimes you can't get a driverto drive a truck to get a load of steel.
What I said earlier is that we have to buy
the material and there'sa lead time for that.
They might have to roll it at the mill.
(22:30):
And then you have to get a driver
and a truck underneath the loadto get it to your place.
And then lately it's been very hard to get
a driver and a trucking firm to pickstuff up in a timely manner.
And that's one of the reasons why I wanted
to bring that up was in this,as we have people talking about this
and saying, what can I dowith a metal fabricator?
(22:51):
What can they do for my business is
understanding all these different elementsso that they're getting a little bit more
knowledge of understanding what to expect,how do they interact with a metal
fabrication company,and what should they look for so that they
don't go into it and then have certainideas and they have more
(23:12):
of an understanding of thisis what to look for.
I think you've already hit someof the things like number one ISO
certification shows that you don't knowwho I am, and it's kind of a standardized
inspection or a standard that you'vemet to be able to do that.
And then the whole idea of putting
the planning and having the estimatorskind of lets you put your entire
(23:35):
production process so that it matcheswith what they're looking for.
But if a company is looking for thingslooking for, like consistent production or
they want to look for what shouldI be looking for in a company?
These are definitely some of the traitsthat I think they should be looking for.
Well, you know,
if someone is looking for a custom metalfabricator,
(23:58):
let's say that you realize that you needsome reusable stacking racks or shelves or
some load tables for whatever reason,and you've never had them made before.
It's good to know who you're dealing with.
So looking for someone who's isolate
(24:21):
certified is important,or maybe your dad, maybe
you know somebody who's in that business,and that would really help because if they
can't do it, they couldtell you who could.
And that's the way that I am.
If somebody approaches me and I can't dowhat they want, I tell them where to go.
(24:44):
I recommend I know people in the industry
that do other things becausewe work together all the time.
So I like to do my friends favorsjust like they do my favorites.
I get recommended a lot by vendors
and other people, and I dothe same thing for them.
That's good to know.
And I think that's important for companiesbecause if they come in with something
(25:06):
that maybe it's not exactly the areathat you work within that you can make
those kind of recommendations and you'rereally looking out for the customer.
And I think that's important for peopleto realize that that's something to look
for in a company is that you understandthe project, you get to really ask all
the questions upfront so that you'regetting them exactly what they want
(25:27):
and there's no surprises,I think, is what it comes out to.
I know this might sound a little cheeky,
but my customers over the last 16 years,17 years, have become my friends.
We're friends.
You know what I mean?
I help them support their families,and they help me support mine.
(25:49):
And it's a matter of trust.
So any last parting things on this,anything?
I'm looking down through things.
So I'm looking at your capabilities.
I'm on your website right now,
and I'm looking at you dothe contract manufacturing.
So you actually run productionfor some parts for some companies.
(26:10):
Yes, we do.
And you do the precision laser cutting,
you do the welding, you do metal stamping,CNC machining.
And we talked briefly on that.
You also have the ability to domachining on parts and components.
That is correct.
What is Flow Drill and Flow Tap?
Flow Drill and Flow Tap is a systemdesigned by a company called Flow Drill,
(26:34):
which instead of drillinga hole in a part.
Okay, let's just say that you havea bracket that you're putting together
and you're going to screwa mirror to it, right.
Okay.Like for a car.
So that's the rear view mirror on the sideof the truck, on the bracket itself.
Instead of drilling a hole and puttinga nut and a Bolt in it,
(26:57):
we have a ceramic Bush that we get goingreally fast, and it makes a real hot Bush.
And then the point drillsthrough, makes a hole.
And then we come back in with the tap.
And nowif you keep going with that video there,
you'll see that you makethe Weld nut part of the tube.
(27:22):
So the instance of failure hasbeen reduced to almost zero.
Oh, wow.Okay.
Because if you make that just drill a holewith a CNC and put a nut and a Bolt
in there for the mirror, that nut can comeoff of the Bolt to break the work loose.
(27:44):
But if you heat up that metal,push it all the way through,
and then come back with a tap and tapthat Bush, that half inch Bush that you've
left through there and put thread in it,you can
drill your mirror or screw your mirrorright straight to the structural tube.
(28:06):
Very cool.
I hope I explained that right.
I think you did.
But on our website, there'sa great explanation of folder.
And then the last thing I saw,I just want to touch base.
We kind of touch base on her earlier wasand that's the other thing I'm noticing is
that you can really take thisfrom beginning all the way to end.
(28:28):
I mean, you can actually fabricate,you can belt, you can stamp,
bend, you can machine, and you caneven finish the part afterwards.
We go right from A to Z so it comes
in the door and it's stealing and itleaves in a package all ready to go.
(28:48):
And I'm looking hereand I'm seeing 850 ft.
Conveyor line.
That's a powder coat paint line.That's right.
Okay.
That conveyor is 850ft long.
That gets it througha two station pre wash.
Itgoes through a drying phase and then goes
(29:08):
into the paint booth by twelve footby twelve ft.
By twelve ft.I think it is or the other way around.
Anyway, once it goes through there,
gets painted, then it takes a right turn,goes in and takes it to the oven,
takes another right turn, goes down 50ft,makes a turn at the end, comes back 50ft.
(29:31):
So it's in there for 100ft at 410 degrees.
And it bakes on whatever we put on there.
And that seems to be the choice now,especially for a lot of metal fabrication.
Is powder coating versus justthe old fashioned paint?
Yes.
Powder coating isyou have to take a knife to scrape.
(29:54):
You really have to hit it hard,and then it just gouges into it.
It's part of the steel.
It's not like it won't.
I mean, if you don't pretreat the material
properly, it'll Peel rightoff just like wet paint.
But if you treat it, if you do the properpretreat and you paint it and Bake it on.
Right, it's not coming off,you could Bake it into walls.
(30:16):
So that's why you have the cleaning firstand the stations it's set up that it is on
to get the surface prepared,to take the powder, you.
Have to treat the surfaceof the material first.
That's right.
Excellent.
So if somebody were to say, okay,I have an idea, or I have a project or I'm
(30:38):
a manufacturer, what's the best waythat they can get in touch with you?
Www.Dot.
Escp.
Net and if you'd like to call me,you can call 180-39-7915.
Just ask for John Nelson.Okay.
Well, John, thank you very much.
(30:58):
This has been an exceptionally good
podcast and very enlightening as to whatmetal fabricators do for people.
I hope it was if anybody has anyquestions, have them call me.
There's a lot of information to put out
in a short amount of time,but I hope I did justice.
I think we definitely covered a lot
(31:19):
of areas, and I think it'll be veryhelpful people that are kind of going down
this Avenue and say, how do I goabout this and what can we do?
So I think it was overall very.
Good podcast along those lines.
I would like to say if you're out there
and you're looking for a custom metalfabricator, if you call me and tell me
what you're looking for, if I can't do it,I'll tell you where to go.
(31:40):
I know people in the industryall over the country.
That's a nice offer because I thinkthat to me says a lot because when
a company says if we can't do it,we just kind of hang up the phone type
thing and that says a lot about yourintegrity and you as a business that hey
if we can't do it, we can recommendsomebody that would be able to do it.
I think that's a greatpoint to add on there.
(32:03):
Thank you.Okay.
So thanks, John.
You have a good afternoon.
Afternoon.Bye.
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