January 15, 2024 • 26 mins
Zinc is a versatile metal that offers many advantages to product development and manufacturing, yet many products designers and engineers are fully aware of these benefits. Zinc Die Casting is an optimal choice for the right casting. Dave Magner, Director of Sales, and Marketing at Deco Products talks with us to understand when zinc is a good choice and how it impacts both product design as well as manufacturing and profitability.
Deco Products Contact Info Phone: (563)-387-9058
Website: https://decoprod.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Today we're going to be talking aboutzinc diecasting in manufacturing.
And with us today is Dave Magner, directorof sales and marketing at Deco Products.
Dave, welcome to the videopodcast that we're doing today.
Yeah, great.Great to be here.
Thank you so much, Neil.
Glad to have you on board.
Let's start out by simply asking,
(00:28):
can you explain what zinc diecasting isand how it differs from other diecasting?
Great.
Well, diecasting in of itself is similar,but with zinc, there's a few certain
characteristics that are realimportant with the material.
(00:48):
Zinc has a certain melting temperaturethat's less than some other materials.
So that's a big provision.
And some of the correspondingequipment is designed around that.
And so the diecasting process,
regardless of the metal,you usually have a mold that can split
in half, and you shoot the metal into thetwo halves as they're pressed together.
(01:15):
You let the metal solidify,
and then you split the two halvesapart and have to extract the part.
And then from thereyou're going to have some excess material
as the material flowsthrough and solidifies.
And we call that a runneror the gate or the overflow.
And so that has to be trimmed off.
(01:37):
And then that might bethe functional part.
It may be that simple, but from there,often there may be some secondary
operations that one would need to doto make that part per print and per
the specific specificationsfor the application.
But the advantage of zinc is it generallyruns quicker because it does solidify
(02:02):
quicker with the lowermelting temperature.
Okay, great.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthe types of applications.
I'm going to do this in two ways.
The first way is what are common thingsthat people normally make with zinc,
and then what are some things that areeither potentially avenues that zinc would
be a great opportunity or somethingto look at, or is there a movement
(02:24):
in the industry to movetowards zinc in certain areas?
Yeah, that's a really important question.
We work with customers to identifywhen the zinc material is optimal.
I've got a 20 year background in advanced
product development, and we develop partsin zinc and plastic and other things.
(02:48):
So there are certain parts,
certain applications that zinc isoutstanding for, other ones
where a different materialprocess could be advantageous.
And so we find that zinc's advantages
really evolve around a great balanceof strength and high precision.
(03:12):
Zinc as an alloy, as a metal,
is stronger than plastic and more rigid,which can be an advantage or disadvantage.
But when you need that strength,that's important.
The other thing that zinc hasin its favor is its precision.
(03:34):
Because of its rigidity and because it'smetal, it casts the tighter tolerances.
Characteristic of zinc is it's very fluid.
And so when you melt it,
the fluidity is quite high,and so it melts and it flows like water,
where other metals are more syrupyand don't flow quite as well.
(03:55):
So you can design really precisionfeatures, thin walls,
specific radiuses that are reallyimportant to one's design, for example.
And so zinc will fill that in really
nicely and prevent additional secondaryoperations, often where the tolerances are
(04:17):
quite tight, when it solidifies,it's quite rigid.
Where other materials are very flexible,
but they can warp and theycan distort over time.
So those are a couple of things that as
an engineer, you have to really balancewhat you need and what's the application.
Certainly,
I think one of the things you mentionedthere is about the fluidity of it.
(04:38):
Is that important?
I'm sure people that are listeningunderstand the basics of molding,
and the whole idea is filling the cavityas much as you can, so you don't have air
pockets and things like that,or the mold doesn't come out right.
Does that mean that you could also havemore detail in the thing,
like more complex shape or moredetail in the actual surface?
(05:00):
Yeah, exactly.
Because when the material is fluidand when you shoot this at a high
pressure, when it's melted,now you can really
provide thin wall sections,very complex details that can be molded
in with a high degreewith very limited tolerances.
(05:23):
That is certainly an advantage that zinc
is even more uniquely as a metal, but alsobetter than other metals like aluminum.
And I know when you mentioned about thinwall, that's something very big,
because I know there's a lot in plastics,you have to worry about things like
the dimensional accuracy and also just inuse, thin doesn't have the strength on it.
(05:46):
And would that be an advantage that zinc
would have over, say, like,in the plastics field?
Yeah, right.
With plastics, you got to beconcerned with what they call sink.
The thermodynamics of plasticand zinc are unique.
Right.And so as a plastic designer,
(06:06):
you don't wantwall thicknesses that are different
because the thicker walls will cool ata different rate than the thinner walls.
And so then you get this defect,
the sinked area, as the materialcools at a different rate.
That's a particular concern with plasticand the ultimate design of a plastic part.
(06:31):
Now, zinc is much more tolerant
for varyingwall thicknesses because the zinc cools
at a more constant rate,even in a thinner and a thicker wall.
And so you'll get a better surface finish
with a zinc part, which is reallyimportant, whether it's a raw part.
But then maybe you paint the part or you
(06:54):
plate the part, and so you'll get a moredecorative part out of zinc, maybe.
And the surface finish is so importantfor esthetics and really things like
minimizing stress concentrations,things of that nature.
So it even can impactthe strength of the part.
I know.It has a much better feel to it, too,
(07:15):
for things like door hardware,window hardware, things like that.
It just has more solid feel to itthan a lot of other materials.
Yeah, I mean, that's a great point.
Zinc is a heavy material.
It's a very dense material.
And so you're not designing a lot of zinc
parts for aviation, for example, becausethe weight is a parameter that that design
(07:39):
engineer is really factoring in for fuelefficiencies and other reasons.
But there are times where weight and what
we call the haptics or the perceptionthat end user is a very premium feel.
And it's very important for the quality
of not only that zinc part,but the entire system.
(08:01):
So there'll be automotive applicationswhere the door handle will be made out
of zinc, even though itweighs a little bit more.
The perceived value is so much better.
So you'll see that in a luxury car.
Same thing with windows, right?
Yeah.
The hardware aspect is so important wherethe value and the perceived value is so
(08:26):
much higher on a zinc part, both becauseit feels better and it looks better.
Yeah.And I would think that would be something
when you're talking to productdevelopers and engineers.
That's got to be part of the equation isall these factors that come together
on something like that,and it's kind of like looking at it.
Let me ask you, where's the best placewhen a company's at that stage of figuring
(08:49):
out, is this the time to engagewith the zinc diecaster like Deco,
to kind of understand a little bit moreall these things and walk through all
these different options to see ifit's the right material for them.
Yeah, we often do that a lot with either
customers that we've known for decadesor new customers, for that matter.
(09:13):
Talking about those things on the frontend, like you suggest, is so important.
It's better to geton the right path right away.
We'll often domeetings, whether it's through a video
conference or in person, where we'llwalk through different options.
And at the end of the day,
I've got a background,but I've got other engineering folks
(09:36):
that have decades of experiencefor designing diecastings.
And so we'll set up a collaborative
meeting, and we want to steerpeople in the right direction.
We understand that not every part or part
designers parameters are going to gotowards zinc, but there are certain
aspects that we've alludedto that really are important.
(09:59):
And it's important to identify
that on the front end,because then the next part of the design
process is, how can we make that zinc partmore manufacturable and have a better
quality and life throughoutits entire life cycle?
I think if you want to touch base on that,because that's one of the things I think
that's important,is it's not just the design, the mold,
and you go right into production if youwant to talk a little bit about
(10:22):
manufacturability and what rolethat plays in the final product.
So, yeah, when you're working
with a design engineer,one of our customers,
there are two sides of the cointhat we really need to worry about.
One is, should the part bemade out of zinc or not?
And we'll want to steerthem in the right direction.
But then if zinc as a materialin the diecasting process is a strong
(10:45):
candidate, then it's a matter of lookingat that design and balancing
the requirements of the design,the geometry, the testing requirements,
things of that naturewith what's manufacturable.
And so that's a real collaborative effort,because sometimes they'll design things
in a way like, okay,that was somewhat arbitrary,
(11:07):
that feature where we'll ask,well, can that feature be slanted?
Or what we call, can we add draft to that?
Because we want that part to be less
blocky and have filets and be taperedin a lot of ways, what we call draft,
so that the part falls outof the tool much more easily.
(11:29):
That improves the surface finishof the part and ultimately the quality
of the part from day one,but then also the tool life
and the quality of that part a year later,even ten years later.
And so we really designaround a long life tool.
And so when we can optimize thingson the front end, you just get that much
(11:50):
further payback in the long run,both on quality and the cost of tooling
and all those pretty importantinvestments for the customer.
You had brought up something in a previous
conversation we had talking about the moldlife and that zinc molds last a lot longer
than aluminum, or wasit aluminum or steel?
(12:13):
I think it has a longer period.
So that's another factor in the overallcost of developing a program or product is
things like the lengthof the life of the mold.
Right.So there's generally
(12:33):
ten times longer tool life on a zincmold compared to, like, aluminum.
Yeah.So we're getting tools that last a million
shots, and a shot is the resultof a one cycle of the machine.
And so it could be one part or it couldbe five parts if there's five cavities.
(12:54):
And so we're looking for a millionshots in an equivalent situation.
For aluminum, they'dbe looking at $100,000.
And so you can imagine how many you would
go through ten tools and havethat extensive cost of $15,000
to $50,000.10 times over at the sametime that you'd have only once with zinc.
(13:19):
And it's about the material.
Again, zinc has a lowermelting temperature.
It's less abrasive.
And so zinc is a materialthat you can make bushings out of.
There's some lubricity to it,and so it molds much better where
aluminum, if anybody grabstheir soda can, they'll know.
(13:42):
In aluminum foil, it's a bitabrasive and it's a little scratchy.
And so that's just a characteristic
of the material that is an advantagefor the zinc diecasting process.
Wow.
It's interesting because there's somany things that are involved in that.
And it sounds like you take the timethat this is something you work
with companies, this is notso much a one time type thing.
(14:03):
You really partner with a company and you
become part of their entire developmentand production is what it sounds like.
When we get to that point when we're
working on the design,another really key aspect of that is our
moldful analysis, wherewe'll simulate the flow.
We have got special software
(14:24):
and specialized engineers that willlook at the design of the part.
They'll design the tool around that,
of course, so the geometrythat's needed is conformed to.
But then we have to look at, okay,what is the tool going to look like?
And so before the investment of cutting
steel occurs, we'll go throughmultiple iterations to optimize that.
(14:47):
Again, that's something that most of ourcustomers rely on us to do because
the software is expensive and it's a skillset that we have that a lot of our
customers don't have and reallya lot of other diecasters don't have.
And so rather than winging it and trying
to get the tool optimizedinitially and hope for the best,
(15:10):
we'll go through that extra effortand work with customers and sometimes
they're like, well,can you change this feature?
Can we work on this?Or where's the real decorative surface?
Because we want to optimizethat finish as opposed to the backside.
And so there's some trade offs that you
have to go through, but usually very gooddiscussions that are valued by us
(15:31):
and the customerfor the immediate needs and the long term.
And it's nice that you can carry it
through this entire process all the wayto the actual production of the parts,
that when they put the product on market,you can continually handle all
the production elementsof it then for them as well.
Right?
Because at the end of the day,we're working with people that are working
(15:53):
on their project and theywant the project to succeed.
And that's about the timeliness of things.
Is the project on schedule?
Is the ultimate parts going to be
of the sufficient quality and meetthe specifications that are needed?
And then ultimately is it the right cost
both on the initial investmentand then the long term cost?
And so us working and collaboratingwith the design engineer or the project
(16:20):
manager throughout the whole process,so important.
So we'll have different handoff points
where it goes from our design team to ourquality team, to our process team,
to our tooling team,then ultimately to our operations
and production folks that then take allthose inputs and make a very thorough
and comprehensive quality planthat will stand the test of time.
(16:44):
You brought up something when youmentioned about the software and some
of the skill sets that you have and aboutbeing one of the uniquenesses of Deco.
Could you maybe elaborate a little bitmore on what maybe some of the unique
benefits are of Deco, say,over some of the competitors?
Without obviously not saying any names,but just saying what are some
of the unique benefits that Decooffers in the zinc diecasting market?
(17:07):
Well, Deco has been around for a while,
and with that we have systemsand people that are experts.
And so we've been around since 1960and we have decades of experience in our
engineering and our tool room and thatjust cannot be mimicked or replicated.
(17:30):
And so, for example, tool transfers,somebody might have a tool.
We've talked a lot about development
of a new part, but there are times whena customer has a tool already and they
want to have know somebody else run itfor whatever reason,
they want to bring a tool back from Chinaor the other diecaster goes out
of business or they justdon't feel good about them.
And so we are uniquely suited to bring
(17:53):
in a transfer tool,one because we have the expertise to bring
it in, but the other thing that's aboutDeco is we have over 100 diecast machines,
ranging from small to large,to make a very small part like a fastener,
all the way to a partin our 500 ton machine.
And so we'll have the machine to run mosttools and if there are any modifications.
(18:20):
Our tool room and our engineering team
have been through the manyexperiences to make things work.
And so often it's very simple and verystraightforward.
But even when it's not,
we minimize the stress on everybodyand we can take care of those aspects.
And so part of that is, again,the people and the expertise,
(18:43):
but also of the equipment in oursystems that we have had for decades.
And that is a really uniqueness.
I mentioned say we have more diecastcapacity than our one roof than anybody
in North America, again,ranging from small to large.
But then a lot of redundancy as well
to ensure that lead times are met,any expedites can happen.
(19:08):
And we really work with ourkey customers in that regard.
That's amazing, because,
and I know that was one thing in lookingto the research, was that you are,
I believe, in North America, the largeststanding zinc diecasting company.
Yeah.
And we do specialize in mean,
there are other diecasters that doa little zinc, and then they do aluminum,
(19:31):
plastic, and they do a varietyof things in multiple facilities.
But our facilities here in decor, Iowa,
where all the engineering,all the leadership team and all
the operations happen here as a madein the US manufacturer, that's fantastic.
You've got my curiosity now.
Is there any product or project
(19:52):
that you've worked on that was kindof unique or something that kind
of an interesting that you can sharewith us that was something out
of the ordinary or something that yousolved or something like that?
Yeah.
One of our key customers, again,
it happens so often where we haveto collaborate, but one of the unique
projects that we just worked on actuallyapplied for award through the NADCA,
(20:16):
which is a north americandiecasting association.
They've got an annual competition.Right.
And so
we submittedsome of the challenges and the solutions
that we came up with forthat particular competition.
And we were one of a couplethat were recognized.
And so what was really outstandingthat our engineering team did is really
(20:40):
worked with our customer, understoodsome of the challenges.
In this case, it was a decorative part.
The surface finish was so important,but it's also a very thin part.
The walls or the structural memberswere really important to be thin.
And so the flow, and that's where we talkabout the mold flow analysis,
(21:03):
was the key tool to all that,to try something, to optimize it.
And we went through many,many iterations throughout the process.
But when you do that and now you actually
fabricate that tool and you seethe benefits of that and see the customer
and that project manager succeed,that was a great win win for all of us.
(21:27):
And so that's just one example.
We were working on projects like that allthe time, but in this case it was just
some uniqueness with the featuresof that part and also balancing
that with the decorativeaspects that was so important.
It definitely can say that being focused
on zinc is definitely going to give youalso the experience to be able to handle
(21:49):
a myriad of challenges and havingexperience to kind of know, oh,
that we worked in this area and now we canwork in this area on something like that.
This has been fascinating.
I appreciate your time on that.
I'm going to give you a couple of minutes.
If there's anything I didn't cover oranything you'd like to talk about,
zinc diecasting or deco,I'll give you the floor.
(22:12):
One thing that I think you just kind
of hit on that I neglected iswe talk a lot about the casting process,
but then there are often thatdepending on the requirements
of that part, it might just be a casting,right, but often a customer will need
an assembly or they'llneed secondary operations.
(22:34):
So we concentrate on the casting process,
but then also the valueadd operations beyond that.
And so that could include machining,adding taft holes, could be powder coating
or other decorative or non decorativecorrosion protection finishes.
And then just the assembly process.
(22:55):
And so a lot of Deco's background is inthe hardware, whether it's window, door.
And you can think about the differentmechanisms that one could use.
Zinc on windows and doors.
And when we talk about the door,
the egress or ingress access system needsto be something that functions really
(23:17):
well, is strong, but also hasthis great perceived value.
And so we've got a lot of historyin that adding additional value to
not only the part, but the assemblyand even be part of the bigger system.
And so that's an important aspect
with the design process,is understanding things in a very,
(23:39):
could be component level and very costconscious, or it could be more systematic
and really worried about someadditional functionality.
I think thatreally summarizes the challenges
that we're faced and that wecollaborate with our customers on.
And I can go on and on, I suppose,
(24:01):
but I think this is a goodintroduction to the process.
But then we're available to talk throughthings in a more detailed way because
that's wherethe tire hits the ground and where
the real exciting challenges come up ison the specific project requirements.
(24:22):
Which brings up a good point.
How is the best wayof somebody to contact you?
Well, yeah, we try to put a lotof resources on our website.
People just want to finddifferent things out.
But we're very receptive,whether it's a phone call, an email,
a video conference or even a meetingin person, we're very receptive to working
(24:45):
with the customer,answering the questions.
And again, it might be just steering themin the right direction and it maybe won't
go anywhere or it may lenditself into some projects.
As you can imagine, we'll go on a year,there's a lot of development,
a lot of testing, and wecould be part of that process.
(25:07):
But the engagement is important.
It's important for us and it's importantfor our customers, because
if we can work together,often it's a win win scenario to really
address whatever challengesare on the front end.
And not that it's simple then,but it's certainly less costly and less
(25:27):
stressful than trying to findsomething in the 11th hour.
And so that type of engagement isimportant to everybody involved.
That's excellent.
One of the things we'll do is we will alsoput the web address and the contact
information show notes at the bottomof the podcast so that we can go.
Dave, again, can't thank you enough.
(25:48):
You are a wealth of knowledge.
It's always enjoyable to have you
on and learn more about zincand zinc diecasting process.
Thank you very much for beinga part of the podcast.
Well, and Neil, thank you for having me
on and thank you for all your work to kindof educate the rest of the industry.
We love to be involved with the diecastindustry, but also the manufacturing
(26:10):
industry in general as a us manufacturerwant to support others and really
certainly propagate the win winscenario that we're all involved with.
So thank you for beingthe catalyst for that.
Oh, not a problem, not a problem.
Thanks again.All right, great.
Today we're going to be talking aboutzinc diecasting in manufacturing.
And with us today is Dave Magner, directorof sales and marketing at Deco Products.
Dave, welcome to the videopodcast that we're doing today.
Yeah, great.Great to be here.
Thank you so much, Neil.
Glad to have you on board.
Let's start out by simply asking,
(00:28):
can you explain what zinc diecasting isand how it differs from other diecasting?
Great.
Well, diecasting in of itself is similar,but with zinc, there's a few certain
characteristics that are realimportant with the material.
(00:48):
Zinc has a certain melting temperaturethat's less than some other materials.
So that's a big provision.
And some of the correspondingequipment is designed around that.
And so the diecasting process,
regardless of the metal,you usually have a mold that can split
in half, and you shoot the metal into thetwo halves as they're pressed together.
(01:15):
You let the metal solidify,
and then you split the two halvesapart and have to extract the part.
And then from thereyou're going to have some excess material
as the material flowsthrough and solidifies.
And we call that a runneror the gate or the overflow.
And so that has to be trimmed off.
(01:37):
And then that might bethe functional part.
It may be that simple, but from there,often there may be some secondary
operations that one would need to doto make that part per print and per
the specific specificationsfor the application.
But the advantage of zinc is it generallyruns quicker because it does solidify
(02:02):
quicker with the lowermelting temperature.
Okay, great.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthe types of applications.
I'm going to do this in two ways.
The first way is what are common thingsthat people normally make with zinc,
and then what are some things that areeither potentially avenues that zinc would
be a great opportunity or somethingto look at, or is there a movement
(02:24):
in the industry to movetowards zinc in certain areas?
Yeah, that's a really important question.
We work with customers to identifywhen the zinc material is optimal.
I've got a 20 year background in advanced
product development, and we develop partsin zinc and plastic and other things.
(02:48):
So there are certain parts,
certain applications that zinc isoutstanding for, other ones
where a different materialprocess could be advantageous.
And so we find that zinc's advantages
really evolve around a great balanceof strength and high precision.
(03:12):
Zinc as an alloy, as a metal,
is stronger than plastic and more rigid,which can be an advantage or disadvantage.
But when you need that strength,that's important.
The other thing that zinc hasin its favor is its precision.
(03:34):
Because of its rigidity and because it'smetal, it casts the tighter tolerances.
Characteristic of zinc is it's very fluid.
And so when you melt it,
the fluidity is quite high,and so it melts and it flows like water,
where other metals are more syrupyand don't flow quite as well.
(03:55):
So you can design really precisionfeatures, thin walls,
specific radiuses that are reallyimportant to one's design, for example.
And so zinc will fill that in really
nicely and prevent additional secondaryoperations, often where the tolerances are
(04:17):
quite tight, when it solidifies,it's quite rigid.
Where other materials are very flexible,
but they can warp and theycan distort over time.
So those are a couple of things that as
an engineer, you have to really balancewhat you need and what's the application.
Certainly,
I think one of the things you mentionedthere is about the fluidity of it.
(04:38):
Is that important?
I'm sure people that are listeningunderstand the basics of molding,
and the whole idea is filling the cavityas much as you can, so you don't have air
pockets and things like that,or the mold doesn't come out right.
Does that mean that you could also havemore detail in the thing,
like more complex shape or moredetail in the actual surface?
(05:00):
Yeah, exactly.
Because when the material is fluidand when you shoot this at a high
pressure, when it's melted,now you can really
provide thin wall sections,very complex details that can be molded
in with a high degreewith very limited tolerances.
(05:23):
That is certainly an advantage that zinc
is even more uniquely as a metal, but alsobetter than other metals like aluminum.
And I know when you mentioned about thinwall, that's something very big,
because I know there's a lot in plastics,you have to worry about things like
the dimensional accuracy and also just inuse, thin doesn't have the strength on it.
(05:46):
And would that be an advantage that zinc
would have over, say, like,in the plastics field?
Yeah, right.
With plastics, you got to beconcerned with what they call sink.
The thermodynamics of plasticand zinc are unique.
Right.And so as a plastic designer,
(06:06):
you don't wantwall thicknesses that are different
because the thicker walls will cool ata different rate than the thinner walls.
And so then you get this defect,
the sinked area, as the materialcools at a different rate.
That's a particular concern with plasticand the ultimate design of a plastic part.
(06:31):
Now, zinc is much more tolerant
for varyingwall thicknesses because the zinc cools
at a more constant rate,even in a thinner and a thicker wall.
And so you'll get a better surface finish
with a zinc part, which is reallyimportant, whether it's a raw part.
But then maybe you paint the part or you
(06:54):
plate the part, and so you'll get a moredecorative part out of zinc, maybe.
And the surface finish is so importantfor esthetics and really things like
minimizing stress concentrations,things of that nature.
So it even can impactthe strength of the part.
I know.It has a much better feel to it, too,
(07:15):
for things like door hardware,window hardware, things like that.
It just has more solid feel to itthan a lot of other materials.
Yeah, I mean, that's a great point.
Zinc is a heavy material.
It's a very dense material.
And so you're not designing a lot of zinc
parts for aviation, for example, becausethe weight is a parameter that that design
(07:39):
engineer is really factoring in for fuelefficiencies and other reasons.
But there are times where weight and what
we call the haptics or the perceptionthat end user is a very premium feel.
And it's very important for the quality
of not only that zinc part,but the entire system.
(08:01):
So there'll be automotive applicationswhere the door handle will be made out
of zinc, even though itweighs a little bit more.
The perceived value is so much better.
So you'll see that in a luxury car.
Same thing with windows, right?
Yeah.
The hardware aspect is so important wherethe value and the perceived value is so
(08:26):
much higher on a zinc part, both becauseit feels better and it looks better.
Yeah.And I would think that would be something
when you're talking to productdevelopers and engineers.
That's got to be part of the equation isall these factors that come together
on something like that,and it's kind of like looking at it.
Let me ask you, where's the best placewhen a company's at that stage of figuring
(08:49):
out, is this the time to engagewith the zinc diecaster like Deco,
to kind of understand a little bit moreall these things and walk through all
these different options to see ifit's the right material for them.
Yeah, we often do that a lot with either
customers that we've known for decadesor new customers, for that matter.
(09:13):
Talking about those things on the frontend, like you suggest, is so important.
It's better to geton the right path right away.
We'll often domeetings, whether it's through a video
conference or in person, where we'llwalk through different options.
And at the end of the day,
I've got a background,but I've got other engineering folks
(09:36):
that have decades of experiencefor designing diecastings.
And so we'll set up a collaborative
meeting, and we want to steerpeople in the right direction.
We understand that not every part or part
designers parameters are going to gotowards zinc, but there are certain
aspects that we've alludedto that really are important.
(09:59):
And it's important to identify
that on the front end,because then the next part of the design
process is, how can we make that zinc partmore manufacturable and have a better
quality and life throughoutits entire life cycle?
I think if you want to touch base on that,because that's one of the things I think
that's important,is it's not just the design, the mold,
and you go right into production if youwant to talk a little bit about
(10:22):
manufacturability and what rolethat plays in the final product.
So, yeah, when you're working
with a design engineer,one of our customers,
there are two sides of the cointhat we really need to worry about.
One is, should the part bemade out of zinc or not?
And we'll want to steerthem in the right direction.
But then if zinc as a materialin the diecasting process is a strong
(10:45):
candidate, then it's a matter of lookingat that design and balancing
the requirements of the design,the geometry, the testing requirements,
things of that naturewith what's manufacturable.
And so that's a real collaborative effort,because sometimes they'll design things
in a way like, okay,that was somewhat arbitrary,
(11:07):
that feature where we'll ask,well, can that feature be slanted?
Or what we call, can we add draft to that?
Because we want that part to be less
blocky and have filets and be taperedin a lot of ways, what we call draft,
so that the part falls outof the tool much more easily.
(11:29):
That improves the surface finishof the part and ultimately the quality
of the part from day one,but then also the tool life
and the quality of that part a year later,even ten years later.
And so we really designaround a long life tool.
And so when we can optimize thingson the front end, you just get that much
(11:50):
further payback in the long run,both on quality and the cost of tooling
and all those pretty importantinvestments for the customer.
You had brought up something in a previous
conversation we had talking about the moldlife and that zinc molds last a lot longer
than aluminum, or wasit aluminum or steel?
(12:13):
I think it has a longer period.
So that's another factor in the overallcost of developing a program or product is
things like the lengthof the life of the mold.
Right.So there's generally
(12:33):
ten times longer tool life on a zincmold compared to, like, aluminum.
Yeah.So we're getting tools that last a million
shots, and a shot is the resultof a one cycle of the machine.
And so it could be one part or it couldbe five parts if there's five cavities.
(12:54):
And so we're looking for a millionshots in an equivalent situation.
For aluminum, they'dbe looking at $100,000.
And so you can imagine how many you would
go through ten tools and havethat extensive cost of $15,000
to $50,000.10 times over at the sametime that you'd have only once with zinc.
(13:19):
And it's about the material.
Again, zinc has a lowermelting temperature.
It's less abrasive.
And so zinc is a materialthat you can make bushings out of.
There's some lubricity to it,and so it molds much better where
aluminum, if anybody grabstheir soda can, they'll know.
(13:42):
In aluminum foil, it's a bitabrasive and it's a little scratchy.
And so that's just a characteristic
of the material that is an advantagefor the zinc diecasting process.
Wow.
It's interesting because there's somany things that are involved in that.
And it sounds like you take the timethat this is something you work
with companies, this is notso much a one time type thing.
(14:03):
You really partner with a company and you
become part of their entire developmentand production is what it sounds like.
When we get to that point when we're
working on the design,another really key aspect of that is our
moldful analysis, wherewe'll simulate the flow.
We have got special software
(14:24):
and specialized engineers that willlook at the design of the part.
They'll design the tool around that,
of course, so the geometrythat's needed is conformed to.
But then we have to look at, okay,what is the tool going to look like?
And so before the investment of cutting
steel occurs, we'll go throughmultiple iterations to optimize that.
(14:47):
Again, that's something that most of ourcustomers rely on us to do because
the software is expensive and it's a skillset that we have that a lot of our
customers don't have and reallya lot of other diecasters don't have.
And so rather than winging it and trying
to get the tool optimizedinitially and hope for the best,
(15:10):
we'll go through that extra effortand work with customers and sometimes
they're like, well,can you change this feature?
Can we work on this?Or where's the real decorative surface?
Because we want to optimizethat finish as opposed to the backside.
And so there's some trade offs that you
have to go through, but usually very gooddiscussions that are valued by us
(15:31):
and the customerfor the immediate needs and the long term.
And it's nice that you can carry it
through this entire process all the wayto the actual production of the parts,
that when they put the product on market,you can continually handle all
the production elementsof it then for them as well.
Right?
Because at the end of the day,we're working with people that are working
(15:53):
on their project and theywant the project to succeed.
And that's about the timeliness of things.
Is the project on schedule?
Is the ultimate parts going to be
of the sufficient quality and meetthe specifications that are needed?
And then ultimately is it the right cost
both on the initial investmentand then the long term cost?
And so us working and collaboratingwith the design engineer or the project
(16:20):
manager throughout the whole process,so important.
So we'll have different handoff points
where it goes from our design team to ourquality team, to our process team,
to our tooling team,then ultimately to our operations
and production folks that then take allthose inputs and make a very thorough
and comprehensive quality planthat will stand the test of time.
(16:44):
You brought up something when youmentioned about the software and some
of the skill sets that you have and aboutbeing one of the uniquenesses of Deco.
Could you maybe elaborate a little bitmore on what maybe some of the unique
benefits are of Deco, say,over some of the competitors?
Without obviously not saying any names,but just saying what are some
of the unique benefits that Decooffers in the zinc diecasting market?
(17:07):
Well, Deco has been around for a while,
and with that we have systemsand people that are experts.
And so we've been around since 1960and we have decades of experience in our
engineering and our tool room and thatjust cannot be mimicked or replicated.
(17:30):
And so, for example, tool transfers,somebody might have a tool.
We've talked a lot about development
of a new part, but there are times whena customer has a tool already and they
want to have know somebody else run itfor whatever reason,
they want to bring a tool back from Chinaor the other diecaster goes out
of business or they justdon't feel good about them.
And so we are uniquely suited to bring
(17:53):
in a transfer tool,one because we have the expertise to bring
it in, but the other thing that's aboutDeco is we have over 100 diecast machines,
ranging from small to large,to make a very small part like a fastener,
all the way to a partin our 500 ton machine.
And so we'll have the machine to run mosttools and if there are any modifications.
(18:20):
Our tool room and our engineering team
have been through the manyexperiences to make things work.
And so often it's very simple and verystraightforward.
But even when it's not,
we minimize the stress on everybodyand we can take care of those aspects.
And so part of that is, again,the people and the expertise,
(18:43):
but also of the equipment in oursystems that we have had for decades.
And that is a really uniqueness.
I mentioned say we have more diecastcapacity than our one roof than anybody
in North America, again,ranging from small to large.
But then a lot of redundancy as well
to ensure that lead times are met,any expedites can happen.
(19:08):
And we really work with ourkey customers in that regard.
That's amazing, because,
and I know that was one thing in lookingto the research, was that you are,
I believe, in North America, the largeststanding zinc diecasting company.
Yeah.
And we do specialize in mean,
there are other diecasters that doa little zinc, and then they do aluminum,
(19:31):
plastic, and they do a varietyof things in multiple facilities.
But our facilities here in decor, Iowa,
where all the engineering,all the leadership team and all
the operations happen here as a madein the US manufacturer, that's fantastic.
You've got my curiosity now.
Is there any product or project
(19:52):
that you've worked on that was kindof unique or something that kind
of an interesting that you can sharewith us that was something out
of the ordinary or something that yousolved or something like that?
Yeah.
One of our key customers, again,
it happens so often where we haveto collaborate, but one of the unique
projects that we just worked on actuallyapplied for award through the NADCA,
(20:16):
which is a north americandiecasting association.
They've got an annual competition.Right.
And so
we submittedsome of the challenges and the solutions
that we came up with forthat particular competition.
And we were one of a couplethat were recognized.
And so what was really outstandingthat our engineering team did is really
(20:40):
worked with our customer, understoodsome of the challenges.
In this case, it was a decorative part.
The surface finish was so important,but it's also a very thin part.
The walls or the structural memberswere really important to be thin.
And so the flow, and that's where we talkabout the mold flow analysis,
(21:03):
was the key tool to all that,to try something, to optimize it.
And we went through many,many iterations throughout the process.
But when you do that and now you actually
fabricate that tool and you seethe benefits of that and see the customer
and that project manager succeed,that was a great win win for all of us.
(21:27):
And so that's just one example.
We were working on projects like that allthe time, but in this case it was just
some uniqueness with the featuresof that part and also balancing
that with the decorativeaspects that was so important.
It definitely can say that being focused
on zinc is definitely going to give youalso the experience to be able to handle
(21:49):
a myriad of challenges and havingexperience to kind of know, oh,
that we worked in this area and now we canwork in this area on something like that.
This has been fascinating.
I appreciate your time on that.
I'm going to give you a couple of minutes.
If there's anything I didn't cover oranything you'd like to talk about,
zinc diecasting or deco,I'll give you the floor.
(22:12):
One thing that I think you just kind
of hit on that I neglected iswe talk a lot about the casting process,
but then there are often thatdepending on the requirements
of that part, it might just be a casting,right, but often a customer will need
an assembly or they'llneed secondary operations.
(22:34):
So we concentrate on the casting process,
but then also the valueadd operations beyond that.
And so that could include machining,adding taft holes, could be powder coating
or other decorative or non decorativecorrosion protection finishes.
And then just the assembly process.
(22:55):
And so a lot of Deco's background is inthe hardware, whether it's window, door.
And you can think about the differentmechanisms that one could use.
Zinc on windows and doors.
And when we talk about the door,
the egress or ingress access system needsto be something that functions really
(23:17):
well, is strong, but also hasthis great perceived value.
And so we've got a lot of historyin that adding additional value to
not only the part, but the assemblyand even be part of the bigger system.
And so that's an important aspect
with the design process,is understanding things in a very,
(23:39):
could be component level and very costconscious, or it could be more systematic
and really worried about someadditional functionality.
I think thatreally summarizes the challenges
that we're faced and that wecollaborate with our customers on.
And I can go on and on, I suppose,
(24:01):
but I think this is a goodintroduction to the process.
But then we're available to talk throughthings in a more detailed way because
that's wherethe tire hits the ground and where
the real exciting challenges come up ison the specific project requirements.
(24:22):
Which brings up a good point.
How is the best wayof somebody to contact you?
Well, yeah, we try to put a lotof resources on our website.
People just want to finddifferent things out.
But we're very receptive,whether it's a phone call, an email,
a video conference or even a meetingin person, we're very receptive to working
(24:45):
with the customer,answering the questions.
And again, it might be just steering themin the right direction and it maybe won't
go anywhere or it may lenditself into some projects.
As you can imagine, we'll go on a year,there's a lot of development,
a lot of testing, and wecould be part of that process.
(25:07):
But the engagement is important.
It's important for us and it's importantfor our customers, because
if we can work together,often it's a win win scenario to really
address whatever challengesare on the front end.
And not that it's simple then,but it's certainly less costly and less
(25:27):
stressful than trying to findsomething in the 11th hour.
And so that type of engagement isimportant to everybody involved.
That's excellent.
One of the things we'll do is we will alsoput the web address and the contact
information show notes at the bottomof the podcast so that we can go.
Dave, again, can't thank you enough.
(25:48):
You are a wealth of knowledge.
It's always enjoyable to have you
on and learn more about zincand zinc diecasting process.
Thank you very much for beinga part of the podcast.
Well, and Neil, thank you for having me
on and thank you for all your work to kindof educate the rest of the industry.
We love to be involved with the diecastindustry, but also the manufacturing
(26:10):
industry in general as a us manufacturerwant to support others and really
certainly propagate the win winscenario that we're all involved with.
So thank you for beingthe catalyst for that.
Oh, not a problem, not a problem.
Thanks again.All right, great.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.