In this episode, Brandon hosts Brian Watson, a retired IRS Criminal Investigation Special Agent with 28 years of experience in federal law enforcement. Brian shares his background and current role with the nonprofit ROSE (Resources Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly), where he focuses on fraud prevention for older adults. They discuss the evolving nature of scams, how seniors are targeted due to their accumulated wealth, and provide practical advice on recognizing and preventing scams. Real-life examples of scams and the emotional and financial toll on victims underscore the importance of vigilance and proactive measures. The episode highlights the importance of community and support networks in safeguarding vulnerable populations from financial predators.
00:00 Welcome and Introduction
01:13 Brian Watson's Background
02:13 Focus on Digital and Online Scams
03:09 Scams Targeting Older Americans
07:04 The Evolution of Scams
10:05 Common Scams and How They Work
12:24 Advice for Older Adults
15:45 Emotional and Financial Consequences
21:47 Prevention and Support Resources
26:29 Real-Life Scam Stories
30:23 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
R.O.S.E Advocacy Group
smarticlepodcast@gmail.com
@Smarticleshow @BDDoble @larryolson threads.net/@smarticleshow @brand.dobes The Smarticle Podcast
https://www.smarticlepodcast.com/
#brianwatson #roseadvocasy #aarp #financialcrimes #cammingtheelderly #olderamericans #facebookscams #scams #onlinescams #smarticlescams #directaccessscams #smarticlepodcast
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:54):
This week on Smarticle Scams, we talk withBrian Watson, who's a retired IRS agent,
spent over 25 years in law enforcement,and now works with a group called Rose
Advocacy, which specializes in helpingolder Americans, so I think people
over 60, deal with and fight scams.
Older Americans can at timesbe particularly vulnerable to
(01:17):
these scams, and they also haveretirements that criminals want.
Brian's going to help us understandthe type of scams that come at older
Americans and how best to deal with them.
First off, I would like to welcome myguest, Brian Watson, to the show today.
I'm very excited to have Brian on.
Brian, can you give us a little backgroundon who you are, what you're doing here,
(01:38):
how we got hooked up, that kind of thing?
Absolutely.
Thank you for the invite, Brandon.
I appreciate the opportunity.
I spent 28 years infederal law enforcement.
I was a special agent withIRS criminal investigation.
So we work very complex financial cases.
My main collateral duty for thetail end of my IRS career was
(02:00):
being a public information officer.
And I love to go out and sharetax scams and other financial
fraud warnings to the public.
So when I had an opportunityto retire after putting in a
very long time, a lot of years.
I, I have a unique opportunity to partnerup with a non profit, Rose Resources
(02:20):
Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly.
And for the last year and a half,I've been representing Rose in the
community, doing about 65 in person,broad prevention presentations.
And then I also get to do TV, radio,podcast, like we're doing now.
And I even get to writearticles for a local newspaper.
(02:41):
Oh, nice.
And you're in Tucson, correct?
That is correct.
What we're going to focus on as partof this whole series of shows, we're
looking at digital and online scams.
And one of the things that I first thoughtwhen I first started doing this, because
I had a scam come at me that they didn'tscam me, but I was weirded out, frankly.
(03:01):
I was like, how could this possiblyeven come close to getting me?
And then I began to, as I began to digdown into this, and as we began to think
about doing this as a series of shows.
I realized that there are lots of them.
They're everywhere.
And my first initial thought wasthat older Americans are going to
be the number one target of this.
Subsequently, I found out, yes, olderAmericans are a heavy target of this,
(03:23):
but they're not the only targets.
Everyone is a target of this.
I'm only saying that by saying that we'redemarcating in this show older Americans
and what they face, but that doesn't meanit's just older Americans and the scams
that face younger Americans is similar.
If not the same as scamsof faiths, older Americans.
So you went to work for Rose.
(03:44):
And what's Rose's, what's their primaryraison d'etre, reason for being,
reason for existing and operating?
Yeah.
We want to prevent olderadults from getting scammed.
We recognize everyone getsscammed, but the numbers don't lie.
The older we get, the more we losebecause of the accumulation of wealth.
(04:05):
So we.
In the prevention business, we want togo out there and prevent the money from
being lost in the first place becauseit's a whole lot easier to do that
than trying to juice the money down.
It's funny because I, I've talkedto a lot of people around this and
do you have any idea the numberof people that actually get their
money back that have been scammed?
(04:26):
Yeah, I don't have that number.
It's I haven't been able to find it.
And even the numbers of people thathave lost money are only as reliable
as them reporting the losses.
The numbers don't lie though.
I've looked at part from theFBI's elder fraud report from
the federal trade commission.
And if this increases as you get older,the older you are, the more you're
(04:49):
going to lose because you have money,you have a pension, you have a 401k,
you have a house that is appreciatedin value, and it's just tragic.
The people that I've met thatliterally have lost hundreds of
thousands of dollars, and thenthe ramifications where they doubt
themselves and they feel horrible, theyfeel guilty, they feel embarrassed.
(05:11):
I don't have a number onwhat's been recovered.
A lot of it's just anecdotal.
I think it's so relatively new thatI'm not sure there's much of a number.
I did notice on the Rose websitethat they have a sort of a chart
and I think up to 2023 of the amountof money lost to these scams, and
it's in the millions of dollars.
I talked to a security expert on thisand they said, and this is a quote from
(05:35):
them, and I don't know the veracityof this yet, but we're digging on
it, is that it's the single largest.
exit of American wealth in thehistory of our country, that the
scams are taking so much money.
I don't know if you saw that lastweek that a banker in Kansas was
finally convicted of, I think, 290months in prison for the rest of his
(05:56):
life for embezzling all this money.
And it was, they talk about how hewas this terrible person, but they
don't talk about the fact that it waspart of a scam, that he was scammed
and therefore everyone was scammed.
So it's not surprising to meyou don't have the exact number,
because I don't know if anybodyhas the exact number at this point.
Let's get started with some of thequestions I have for you concerning
older adults and what they face.
(06:19):
So we talked about why olderadults are typically scammed.
Can you reiterate that?
Why would they be attacking older adults?
And you said it's about wealth, obviously.
I think the scammers aretrying to get everybody.
A lot of these scams,they're just sending out.
Thousands, if not millions ofphishing emails or trying phone
calls or sending out, trying to trickpeople into think they're getting
(06:40):
a refund from something like Maxior PayPal or something like that.
The scammers don't discriminate.
They'll take money from anyone.
I just know from experienceand our focus on really trying
to protect the older adult.
That's why Rose was formedabout three years ago.
Cause our founder Joyce Kapowskihad a loved one get hooked up into
(07:01):
one of those nasty romance scams.
And it was very difficult to extracther loved one from that romance scam
because the scammers get complete control.
It's a, they're just, they're relentless.
And the criminals these days aremuch more organized, sophisticated.
They're actually criminal organizations.
That are way better thanthey used to be 20 years ago.
(07:24):
They have whole compounds ofpeople in Myanmar and in Cambodia.
And we have several episodes that talkjust about that machinery behind this.
So let's just suffice to say thatthere is massive machinery out there.
So how have scams changed over the years?
There've always been scammers.
People would come and callsomeone on the phone and try to
scam, but how have they changed?
(07:45):
Because it feels like you justsaid yourself, you're like,
this started three years ago.
Rose did.
Yeah.
It's happened almost overnight andnot overnight, overnight, but really
within the last five or six years,one person said that it really
began most in earnest with COVID.
So how has it changedfrom old scams to today?
I've been doing scamprevention for over 20 years.
(08:06):
And I, when I do presentations now,I saw a picture from a newspaper
article 20 years ago where I didscam prevention in California.
Where I used to live and whatdid I talk about 20 years ago?
I talked about idfm.
Sure It's a thing it always willbe and I talked about the nigerian
email scams which still persist.
I received one In january, butthat's that you've been contacted
(08:31):
by a prince A nigerian prince whowants who has a bunch of money and
that you've been selected, right?
That's that scam, right?
And there's some slightvary they change it up.
It's not so obvious anymoreBut it's absolutely amazing.
The scams from 20 years agowere really easy to spot.
They weren't organized.
There were a lot of misspellings.
They just were not fashions.
(08:52):
And think about this too.
20 years ago, we didn't have cell phones.
And at every presentation, I pullout my cell phone and talk about
how we didn't have these things20 years ago, these smartphones.
Nowadays, the criminals that arecoming after us are ruthless.
They are ruthless financial predators.
They will literally take every.
And you have they read from script thathave proven to work So if you get on
(09:16):
the phone with one of these people youare out of your league You are going
to get taken you have to end that phonecall really quickly And what even better
don't even pick up the phone or don'trespond to that picking email It is a
whole new world we're living in, andnow we have this whole generation of
people that really didn't grow up withtechnology, and now everything requires
(09:39):
a username, a password, a website.
It's very hard just to liveby paper and tech anymore.
So it's a perfect scenario for thesecriminals to get an aging populace
and take everything they have.
I noticed on the Rose website,one of the things it said was,
sign all your paper in a gel pen.
I think of myself, gosh, when'sthe last time I even wrote a check?
(10:02):
And one of the problems with thesescammers is they don't have to be
in the United States to scam you.
Most of them, in fact, are not.
So this is done online, over the phone.
So if you're talking about somebodywho is a, and I was, I would say I
was an early adopter of technology,but I'm still a digital immigrant.
Compared to like our kids that aredigital natives and spent their
(10:22):
whole life with phones and all that.
So if you're talking about your mother,your grandmother, it's even more
pronounced that they are, it doesn'tmean they're not, they can't be savvy
and they don't know what they're doing,but it's probably more likely that they
don't have that much experience in that.
Let's talk about the kinds of scamslike grandparent scams or government
imposter scams and how they work.
(10:44):
So the two scams you mentioned, they, theywork because they prey on people's fear.
The grandparent scam, you'llreceive a phone call and a young
voice will say, Grandma or Grandpa?
And they're hoping someone responds.
I met a man here in the Tucson areawho received such a call and the area
code went back to a Phoenix area codeand he knew his granddaughter worked up
(11:06):
there and his mind instantly took himto, that's my granddaughter, he's in
trouble, I'll do anything to help her.
Gentleman gets on the phoneclaiming to be an attorney.
It moved real quick.
He said, sir, if you give us 15, 000, wecan keep your granddaughter out of jail.
Man sent the money.
And then he told me when I, whenhe recalled this story later on,
(11:28):
he said, Brian, I knew I'd beenhad as soon as I hung up the phone
because he was a very smart man.
His mistake was engaging with acriminal and loving his granddaughter.
And then the impersonation scams, IRS.
Medicare, Social Security, theycall you up and tell you your
account's frozen or there's fraud.
And they want you topanic and pay some money.
(11:51):
I always ask people, and this isactually, I get a laugh line out
of this when I do presentations.
When's the last time you calledone of those government agencies
and they picked up immediately?
Do you actually thinkthey're gonna call you?
Never ever believe a phone callthat comes from one of these
government agencies trying topressure you into doing something.
Now, we even have to worry about moreof the deepfake scams, i. e., they
(12:15):
can get just from a little bit ofyour audio, they can fake your voice.
One of the security experts I talkedto said that, and this is something
the conversation has to happen amongstfamilies, it cannot just be individuals,
but that there needs to be a safephrase for every family that you use.
Grandpa would say to the granddaughter,where did we go on your eighth birthday?
(12:38):
To verify that this person isactually who they say they are,
because they can even fake the voice.
So it maybe sounds justlike your granddaughter.
You're thinking, oh, thatcould never happen to me.
Trust me, it can, and it does happento just everyday normal people.
So having some simple securitythings in place can be super helpful.
What do you say to people when you givepresentations to these different groups
(13:00):
that are working with older Americans?
What is the basic advice you give them?
We always tell people, I'm inter friend.
You want to move really slow.
If you get a phone call, firstof all, don't answer the phone.
If it's a number you don't recognize,and then if you get a phone call and
they say it's your bank and it's thesecurity department and someone is trying
to get your money and they want you tomove quickly and do stuff, just take the
(13:24):
time out, hang up the phone, call froma verified number, your ATM or debit
card and flip it over and call back.
If you get an email that claims tobe from the electric company or from
the cable company and your accountfrozen or something like that, or
your bank, don't react immediately.
Pause.
Don't talk to someone else.
(13:45):
Sleep on it overnight.
The criminals are relying onyou to make a bad rough decision
and you want to take your time.
I think what you just said, it'sinteresting, is that one of the things
that I've heard over and over and overagain is Not use the contact as the
contact in terms of what I mean by thatis if your Energy company calls you up
(14:07):
says the accounts been frozen Hang upand go on and find out what the actual
line number is to your energy companyand call them up Say hey, I just got a
call from such and such is my accountfrozen if you're calling directly into
that They're gonna tell you no youraccounts not frozen and like you said
the pressure to do it quickly freakseverybody out Oh, no, my bank cards been
(14:30):
stolen or whatever There are there youcall the number on the back of the card
because that's the legitimate number Ihad a conversation with friend recently.
He's like, why don't youjust use common sense?
I'm like A lot of people use common sense.
They're really good at what they do.
They get you even whenyou're using common sense.
It's great advice as far as to use that.
Are there any red flags that olderAmericans can look for when they receive?
(14:53):
Is there anything that's, I know yousaid that take your time with everybody.
Is there anything that like stands outto a person if they're receiving this?
So I mentioned phishing and so phishingare emails that try to trick you
into believing it's someone else.
The big myth I have is.
If you're ever in doubt,don't use your smartphone.
(15:14):
It's way too small.
You want to wait till you get home,open up the email on a big screen,
look to see who is sending it.
Sometimes you have to click thebutton, and if it's coming from an
obscure website, you know it's a scam.
And then a lot of times, the phishingemails will have a hyperlink.
It's like a blue box or a boxthat you need to check on.
(15:36):
Don't click on that but hover your mouseover it and you can only do that at home
You can't do it on your smartphone andyou'll see it's trying to take you to
a really bad spot The most prevalentscam is phishing because it's cheap and
easy for the scammers to do And theyonly need to get one person to click
it a day to make it worthwhile Ruleof thumb is don't click any emails.
(15:58):
Don't click any links in any emailsyou get, even when you trust it.
Go outside of the email becausenow you've got PDF scams and
all these different things.
So just be aware of that,even if it seems really legit.
Go to the side of the thing, likeI said, wait till you get home.
Again, time is yourfriend, not your enemy.
So be aware of that.
Let's shift a little bit and talkabout the financial emotional
(16:20):
consequences for these older adultsor anyone, but specifically we're
talking about older adults today.
What are the consequences forthem for falling for these scams?
What's happening to older Americansthat they're not talking about
or they're embarrassed about?
I met a woman recently whofell for one of the jury scams.
She received a phone call.
She thought it was a deputy from ourlocal sheriff's department and that
(16:44):
she failed to show up for jury duty.
There was a warrant out for her arrest.
She paid a fee, the warrant would go away.
She ended up sending 189.
And when I met this woman a month ortwo after it happened, she was still
beating herself up over it, over 189.
(17:04):
And it meant a lot to her, but itwas also, it was the embarrassment.
It was the shame.
He was doubting herself at these agingand living in a retirement place.
I remember sitting there lookingat her and I said, ma'am, there
are all, everyone I've met who'slost money in a scam is very smart.
You're not the only one.
Don't beat yourself over it.
(17:25):
You know what?
Life will go on.
That's easy for me to say whenI've met someone who's lost.
700, 000 or a million dollarsand it's the same thing.
They're shamed.
They have to tell their family.
They really start doubting whetherthey can handle their own finances
or even live on their own.
So there's those are the ramificationsof people that fall for scam.
It's tremendously sad, and one of thethings that we're trying to do with
(17:49):
this show is to normalize this, tosay, listen, this is not some one off,
this is happening all over the place,normal people are getting scammed, do
not feel like you're alone in this,reach out to places like Rose and other,
by the way, we'll put the Rose linkin the show notes so that people can
click on that if they hear the showand say, oh, I want to find out what's
going on, and there are other people.
(18:10):
Older America, there are other scam sitesthat are really good to help people.
Better Business Bureau has a great one.
Just be aware that there are peopleout there doing good things, but
don't feel like you're alone in this.
So, someone gets scammed, theylose 149 or whatever it is.
And by the way, I hadsomebody try to do that to me.
And I thought to myself, I knowthat when they send you a notice
(18:32):
for jury duty, That unless it's sentwhere you have to sign for it, they
cannot prove that you received it.
So no one's going to bechasing you down for jury duty.
Just let everybody know out there.
And if you really are unsure, call thelocal courthouse, get the number for the
local courthouse and call because that'swho's going to have that information.
What happens to people whenthey've lost this money?
(18:54):
What's the chance of them getting it back?
So it depends.
It depends if you can get theattention of a law enforcement agency
who has the time and expertise.
And unfortunately, lawenforcement is overwhelmed.
When my law enforcement days,we had to only take cases
that were the biggest ones.
(19:14):
And then, where did the money go?
How was it sensed?
If it was sent throughcryptocurrency, you can trace it back.
There's a possibility, but you have tohave someone who knows how to do that.
If money is sent to a foreigncountry, it depends on the country.
But it's, it, I, I would not rely on that.
I know of instances where peoplehave been able to get money back,
(19:37):
usually you don't get the money back.
And that's why we're focusedon the prevention side.
Prevention is absolutely the key in allthis stuff because if they don't get it
in the first place, then you don't haveto worry about trying to get it back.
And it is incredibly difficult and it'sa massive undertaking by law enforcement.
The problem is that it's done all online.
So, it's really diff, yougotta find it and get it.
(20:00):
It could be, follow 14 different serversto get there, and so on and so forth.
One of the things I heard, and I'mcurious about this, have you seen cases
where victims are scanned more than once?
Once they've fallen for ascan, they fall for it again?
Yes.
Because the scammers know that you'revulnerable and that you have money.
And they'll do thingslike a recovery scam.
I had someone who, I know someonewho lost money in a timeshare scam,
(20:24):
who's trying to sell a timeshareto someone offered him money.
They ripped them off and then theyfollowed it up saying we're a law
firm and we know you got scammed andwe know how to get the money back.
And if you give us a retainer, we canpretty much guarantee that we're going
to sue them and get the money back.
So you're just throwingbad money after bad money.
And they'll call againand they'll just try it.
(20:46):
Or if they got you with one scam, they'lltry a variation because they know it's a
legitimate number or a legitimate email.
So it does happen.
That's why, too, if you have afamily member or a friend that's been
scammed, you need to talk to them,make sure they know these scammers
will come after you some more.
So not a single more dime,don't believe these people.
(21:08):
And sometimes you even have tointervene and take over an email
account or even a checking account.
I'm curious.
Considering your law enforcement daysworking for the IRS, how many people are
being arrested and caught for these scams?
What's the Do you know?
I don't have those figures.
When I was at the tail end of my IRScareer, one of my fellow co workers,
(21:32):
colleagues had an investigation onthese scammers out of Jamaica that
were calling people in the UnitedStates, telling them they'd won the
Publisher's Clearinghouse sweepstakes.
And in that case, 10 people were charged.
Pretty much everyone has goneto file or pleaded guilty.
I think there's, therewas one defendant left.
They're trying to extradite.
(21:52):
So there's 10 right there, but itcould be hundreds more out there.
We just don't know.
We can only look at anecdotal ones.
We can look at cases that have beenprosecuted and you could go into the U.
S. Attorney's office or the courthouses.
Both federally and locally andadd up the cases, but I think it's
(22:13):
just a small percentage of whatactually is being really stolen
from people all over the country.
So what could people do, let'ssay I wanted to help protect my
grandmother, my grandfather or anolder adult in my life from this,
what could, what could I practicallydo to help them understand this?
So I recommend that peoplehave a scam prevention plan.
(22:36):
Just hoping it doesn't happen tome or my loved ones is not a plan.
That's just wishful thinking.
So that means being proactive.
So for instance, at Rose, we havea monthly email that goes out,
and it just has the latest scam.
It's free.
All we ask for, name and email.
I also had my partner sign up for it.
(22:57):
So then we can have a conversationwithout me insulting their intelligence.
Because I can say, Hey mom, didyou get the email from Rose?
Did you read that articleon that new scam variation?
And she can say, Oh yeah, I'm, Iwould be ready if that happened.
I'm ready for that.
But little things like that, there are allkinds of nonprofits that do similar things
(23:20):
like us in various parts of the country.
I know there's a, an entityin Green Valley, Arizona.
It's called the Green Valley Scam Squad.
They're part of the Trump movement.
They sign up for their emails aswell because I'm always trying
to learn what's out there.
I'm not an expert.
I just know where to get goodinformation and I know how to share it.
(23:41):
So sign up for anything that youcan't get information and then
just have talks with people.
My mom knows if she's ever in doubt.
And my dad as well.
They know to call me.
One day my mom's computer was lockedup and it was playing a siren saying
there were viruses on her computer.
(24:01):
She knew she could just close thedoor to her office and give me a call.
And I was over at her house withinabout an hour and a half and I
was able to solve the situation.
And I knew if I couldn't figure itout I could call my 20 year old son
then he could really figure it out.
My mom and I had thatconversation ahead of time.
(24:22):
We were proactive.
That way, when a scary thing happenedon her computer, she didn't panic.
She knew she had her phone a friendand seeing me on the other line,
other end of the line ready to go.
That's great advice, having that.
And for people that are out there thatdon't necessarily have that community
or those, that network of people, that'swhy things like Rose are so important.
(24:44):
And it strikes me, and this is not one ofthe questions I was thinking about, but.
Is there any idea of creating anaggregate, like you just said, there's
one in Green Valley and there's Rose andthere's all these stop scam thing, but is
there any organization that's aggregatingthis or help talking to one another
so that there's some collective body?
(25:05):
We have talked about it.
I've actually, I did a podcastwith a gentleman named Steve
Gurney, and I believe he's inEast coast, maybe even Virginia.
And he does a lot of, he's like a senioradvocate, brings together older adults to
share information on a variety of topics.
And I actually did a podcast with aretired FBI agent and Steve brought
(25:26):
up the idea of having some sort ofcollective or umbrella organization
where we could work together.
It's tough.
Someone's got to take the lead,but I would be totally willing to
participate in something like that.
Right now, we have all these greatorganizations scattered across the
country, and we also have a lot ofgreat law enforcement agencies and
(25:47):
other groups, but it's really tough.
Yeah, I know shamrock.
org has started to bring law enforcementpeople together to just have this
conversation as like a starting point.
Let's think about like AARP would be, orthe Better Business Bureau or something.
It seems like these organizations to,and they may very well be, I don't
know, I need to do a little bit ofdeeper dive into that because that seems
(26:09):
like a common sense way of At leastmaking everybody aware as opposed to
just being lucky to have Brian Watsonas your son to be able to help it
because there are people out there thatdo not have that luxury if you will.
We talked about this.
We talked about it with Rose.
But are there any other tools orresources, maybe law enforcement, things
that you would recommend that olderAmericans have bookmarked, things that
(26:32):
they can reach out to if they feel likethey might, a scam might be in the works?
I would just reach out to alocal law enforcement agency.
Every police department would ratherspend five or 10 minutes on the front
end of a potential scam than trying tospend hours, days, and weeks trying to
(26:53):
investigate and chase that money down.
You are not going to bother yourlocal law enforcement agency.
They want to help you out.
One thing that we haven't really talkedabout that I'm curious from you working
with Rose and doing all that is not thatwe're looking for salacious news, but.
Can you give us some examples of scamsthat have actually happened of people,
you know, just so we could be awareof the types of things that we know we
(27:16):
have fishing and smishing and pushingall these different things that are
coming out, pig butchering, everything.
But what are some of the thingsthat older Americans might want
to be on the lookout for and maybesome real life examples of that?
No, I, I have accumulatedstories, unfortunately, when I do
presentations, people will literallywalk up to me afterwards and share
(27:37):
their stories, sometimes in peers.
I have two that come to mind.
I did a presentation inmy hometown last year.
Gentleman walks up to me afterwardsand says, Can you look at something?
And I want you to look at itand give me your honest opinion.
I thought I won a sweepstake.
And I've sent them some money,but I haven't got my money yet.
And it was the PublicDeclaring House scam.
(28:01):
And he showed me some documents.
And it included a picture ofa check with his name on it.
And he had paid them 300, 000 in feesand taxes and had not yet received any
part of his 10 million reported wins.
And it only took me a fewseconds to look at it.
(28:21):
And I looked him in his eyes andsaid, sir, you are being scammed.
You can not give another penny more.
And he looked at me and he was broken.
And this was a gentleman in his seventies.
And I talked to him later and hewas considering going back to work.
Cause he sold a house, paidfor those fees and taxes.
And then the other one I'd liketo share, it was the same evening.
(28:43):
A lady came up to me.
They said, I've been scammed,affected me tremendously, where I
can't watch TV or read the newspaper,but I want to share my story.
So I ended up doing a TV interviewwith her and a radio interview,
and she had received an email,claimed to be from McAfee.
She happened to have McAfee, andthey said, we've upgraded your
(29:03):
service, it'll be 20 more a month.
If you don't want that extra payment, andyou want to keep your original level of
service, you need to email us immediately.
And or call us immediately and we'llreverse it called he's talking to
scammers They convinced her to giveremote access on her computer so she
(29:26):
could refund the twenty dollars backto herself They got on her computer.
They started moving moneyaround then they made it appear
that they'd sent her 20, 000
Keeping her on the phonewith high pressure.
They had her withdraw cash from her bankaccount, deposit it into a Bitcoin ATM.
When all was said anddone, she lost 35, 000.
(29:50):
And actually when I did the finalradio show with her, she actually
said, I finally forgiven myself.
So this is a woman, very smart,hardworking, now retired, lost 35,
000 and she was beating herself up,mentally, for falling for the scam.
(30:10):
But she said doing the TV and radiointerviews were actually very therapeutic,
and helpful process her mistake.
And you know what, I was so proud ofher, because her sharing her story, I
know helped other people and preventedthem from falling for a similar scam.
If there was any theme I wanted to expressto everyone listening is that if there's
(30:33):
a theme that I constantly hear from peopleis they're embarrassed and those people
that come forward, even them, they'relike, ah, I can't believe I'm gonna do
this, but I want to help make sure no,that doesn't happen to anybody else.
It is happening to other people.
Sharing your story is a way ofgetting the word out and helping
other people's kudos to her.
Anyone else that's sharing their story.
Kudos to you, Brian, for doing this work.
(30:55):
I think that the more people wecan protect and help, lest anybody
think that this is not serious,we are under attack as a nation.
We truly are under attack as a nation.
It's so almost scarily secretivethat we worry about all this outside
stuff, but we don't even realizethat it's right in front of us, right
(31:15):
under our noses every single day.
People out there want to take.
And we can say, Oh, don't be greedy.
You're rich.
It's like, yeah, but some of these peopleare a postal worker who worked their
whole life to have a good retirementand it's gone and now they got to
go back and be a greeter at Walmart.
Because this stuff happens.
So please share your stories.
Thank you, Brian, for doingthe work that you're doing.
(31:36):
I want to encourage anybody that'slistening, reach out to Rose or an
organization like that for help,or just to inform yourself about
what's going on out there andthe things to protect yourself.
So again, Brian Watson, thank you somuch for coming on the show today.
We really appreciate your time.
Thank you, Brandon.
I really appreciate it.
This week on Smarticle Scams, we talk withBrian Watson, who's a retired IRS agent,
spent over 25 years in law enforcement,and now works with a group called Rose
Advocacy, which specializes in helpingolder Americans, so I think people
over 60, deal with and fight scams.
Older Americans can at timesbe particularly vulnerable to
(01:17):
these scams, and they also haveretirements that criminals want.
Brian's going to help us understandthe type of scams that come at older
Americans and how best to deal with them.
First off, I would like to welcome myguest, Brian Watson, to the show today.
I'm very excited to have Brian on.
Brian, can you give us a little backgroundon who you are, what you're doing here,
(01:38):
how we got hooked up, that kind of thing?
Absolutely.
Thank you for the invite, Brandon.
I appreciate the opportunity.
I spent 28 years infederal law enforcement.
I was a special agent withIRS criminal investigation.
So we work very complex financial cases.
My main collateral duty for thetail end of my IRS career was
(02:00):
being a public information officer.
And I love to go out and sharetax scams and other financial
fraud warnings to the public.
So when I had an opportunityto retire after putting in a
very long time, a lot of years.
I, I have a unique opportunity to partnerup with a non profit, Rose Resources
(02:20):
Outreach to Safeguard the Elderly.
And for the last year and a half,I've been representing Rose in the
community, doing about 65 in person,broad prevention presentations.
And then I also get to do TV, radio,podcast, like we're doing now.
And I even get to writearticles for a local newspaper.
(02:41):
Oh, nice.
And you're in Tucson, correct?
That is correct.
What we're going to focus on as partof this whole series of shows, we're
looking at digital and online scams.
And one of the things that I first thoughtwhen I first started doing this, because
I had a scam come at me that they didn'tscam me, but I was weirded out, frankly.
(03:01):
I was like, how could this possiblyeven come close to getting me?
And then I began to, as I began to digdown into this, and as we began to think
about doing this as a series of shows.
I realized that there are lots of them.
They're everywhere.
And my first initial thought wasthat older Americans are going to
be the number one target of this.
Subsequently, I found out, yes, olderAmericans are a heavy target of this,
(03:23):
but they're not the only targets.
Everyone is a target of this.
I'm only saying that by saying that we'redemarcating in this show older Americans
and what they face, but that doesn't meanit's just older Americans and the scams
that face younger Americans is similar.
If not the same as scamsof faiths, older Americans.
So you went to work for Rose.
(03:44):
And what's Rose's, what's their primaryraison d'etre, reason for being,
reason for existing and operating?
Yeah.
We want to prevent olderadults from getting scammed.
We recognize everyone getsscammed, but the numbers don't lie.
The older we get, the more we losebecause of the accumulation of wealth.
(04:05):
So we.
In the prevention business, we want togo out there and prevent the money from
being lost in the first place becauseit's a whole lot easier to do that
than trying to juice the money down.
It's funny because I, I've talkedto a lot of people around this and
do you have any idea the numberof people that actually get their
money back that have been scammed?
(04:26):
Yeah, I don't have that number.
It's I haven't been able to find it.
And even the numbers of people thathave lost money are only as reliable
as them reporting the losses.
The numbers don't lie though.
I've looked at part from theFBI's elder fraud report from
the federal trade commission.
And if this increases as you get older,the older you are, the more you're
(04:49):
going to lose because you have money,you have a pension, you have a 401k,
you have a house that is appreciatedin value, and it's just tragic.
The people that I've met thatliterally have lost hundreds of
thousands of dollars, and thenthe ramifications where they doubt
themselves and they feel horrible, theyfeel guilty, they feel embarrassed.
(05:11):
I don't have a number onwhat's been recovered.
A lot of it's just anecdotal.
I think it's so relatively new thatI'm not sure there's much of a number.
I did notice on the Rose websitethat they have a sort of a chart
and I think up to 2023 of the amountof money lost to these scams, and
it's in the millions of dollars.
I talked to a security expert on thisand they said, and this is a quote from
(05:35):
them, and I don't know the veracityof this yet, but we're digging on
it, is that it's the single largest.
exit of American wealth in thehistory of our country, that the
scams are taking so much money.
I don't know if you saw that lastweek that a banker in Kansas was
finally convicted of, I think, 290months in prison for the rest of his
(05:56):
life for embezzling all this money.
And it was, they talk about how hewas this terrible person, but they
don't talk about the fact that it waspart of a scam, that he was scammed
and therefore everyone was scammed.
So it's not surprising to meyou don't have the exact number,
because I don't know if anybodyhas the exact number at this point.
Let's get started with some of thequestions I have for you concerning
older adults and what they face.
(06:19):
So we talked about why olderadults are typically scammed.
Can you reiterate that?
Why would they be attacking older adults?
And you said it's about wealth, obviously.
I think the scammers aretrying to get everybody.
A lot of these scams,they're just sending out.
Thousands, if not millions ofphishing emails or trying phone
calls or sending out, trying to trickpeople into think they're getting
(06:40):
a refund from something like Maxior PayPal or something like that.
The scammers don't discriminate.
They'll take money from anyone.
I just know from experienceand our focus on really trying
to protect the older adult.
That's why Rose was formedabout three years ago.
Cause our founder Joyce Kapowskihad a loved one get hooked up into
(07:01):
one of those nasty romance scams.
And it was very difficult to extracther loved one from that romance scam
because the scammers get complete control.
It's a, they're just, they're relentless.
And the criminals these days aremuch more organized, sophisticated.
They're actually criminal organizations.
That are way better thanthey used to be 20 years ago.
(07:24):
They have whole compounds ofpeople in Myanmar and in Cambodia.
And we have several episodes that talkjust about that machinery behind this.
So let's just suffice to say thatthere is massive machinery out there.
So how have scams changed over the years?
There've always been scammers.
People would come and callsomeone on the phone and try to
scam, but how have they changed?
(07:45):
Because it feels like you justsaid yourself, you're like,
this started three years ago.
Rose did.
Yeah.
It's happened almost overnight andnot overnight, overnight, but really
within the last five or six years,one person said that it really
began most in earnest with COVID.
So how has it changedfrom old scams to today?
I've been doing scamprevention for over 20 years.
(08:06):
And I, when I do presentations now,I saw a picture from a newspaper
article 20 years ago where I didscam prevention in California.
Where I used to live and whatdid I talk about 20 years ago?
I talked about idfm.
Sure It's a thing it always willbe and I talked about the nigerian
email scams which still persist.
I received one In january, butthat's that you've been contacted
(08:31):
by a prince A nigerian prince whowants who has a bunch of money and
that you've been selected, right?
That's that scam, right?
And there's some slightvary they change it up.
It's not so obvious anymoreBut it's absolutely amazing.
The scams from 20 years agowere really easy to spot.
They weren't organized.
There were a lot of misspellings.
They just were not fashions.
(08:52):
And think about this too.
20 years ago, we didn't have cell phones.
And at every presentation, I pullout my cell phone and talk about
how we didn't have these things20 years ago, these smartphones.
Nowadays, the criminals that arecoming after us are ruthless.
They are ruthless financial predators.
They will literally take every.
And you have they read from script thathave proven to work So if you get on
(09:16):
the phone with one of these people youare out of your league You are going
to get taken you have to end that phonecall really quickly And what even better
don't even pick up the phone or don'trespond to that picking email It is a
whole new world we're living in, andnow we have this whole generation of
people that really didn't grow up withtechnology, and now everything requires
(09:39):
a username, a password, a website.
It's very hard just to liveby paper and tech anymore.
So it's a perfect scenario for thesecriminals to get an aging populace
and take everything they have.
I noticed on the Rose website,one of the things it said was,
sign all your paper in a gel pen.
I think of myself, gosh, when'sthe last time I even wrote a check?
(10:02):
And one of the problems with thesescammers is they don't have to be
in the United States to scam you.
Most of them, in fact, are not.
So this is done online, over the phone.
So if you're talking about somebodywho is a, and I was, I would say I
was an early adopter of technology,but I'm still a digital immigrant.
Compared to like our kids that aredigital natives and spent their
(10:22):
whole life with phones and all that.
So if you're talking about your mother,your grandmother, it's even more
pronounced that they are, it doesn'tmean they're not, they can't be savvy
and they don't know what they're doing,but it's probably more likely that they
don't have that much experience in that.
Let's talk about the kinds of scamslike grandparent scams or government
imposter scams and how they work.
(10:44):
So the two scams you mentioned, they, theywork because they prey on people's fear.
The grandparent scam, you'llreceive a phone call and a young
voice will say, Grandma or Grandpa?
And they're hoping someone responds.
I met a man here in the Tucson areawho received such a call and the area
code went back to a Phoenix area codeand he knew his granddaughter worked up
(11:06):
there and his mind instantly took himto, that's my granddaughter, he's in
trouble, I'll do anything to help her.
Gentleman gets on the phoneclaiming to be an attorney.
It moved real quick.
He said, sir, if you give us 15, 000, wecan keep your granddaughter out of jail.
Man sent the money.
And then he told me when I, whenhe recalled this story later on,
(11:28):
he said, Brian, I knew I'd beenhad as soon as I hung up the phone
because he was a very smart man.
His mistake was engaging with acriminal and loving his granddaughter.
And then the impersonation scams, IRS.
Medicare, Social Security, theycall you up and tell you your
account's frozen or there's fraud.
And they want you topanic and pay some money.
(11:51):
I always ask people, and this isactually, I get a laugh line out
of this when I do presentations.
When's the last time you calledone of those government agencies
and they picked up immediately?
Do you actually thinkthey're gonna call you?
Never ever believe a phone callthat comes from one of these
government agencies trying topressure you into doing something.
Now, we even have to worry about moreof the deepfake scams, i. e., they
(12:15):
can get just from a little bit ofyour audio, they can fake your voice.
One of the security experts I talkedto said that, and this is something
the conversation has to happen amongstfamilies, it cannot just be individuals,
but that there needs to be a safephrase for every family that you use.
Grandpa would say to the granddaughter,where did we go on your eighth birthday?
(12:38):
To verify that this person isactually who they say they are,
because they can even fake the voice.
So it maybe sounds justlike your granddaughter.
You're thinking, oh, thatcould never happen to me.
Trust me, it can, and it does happento just everyday normal people.
So having some simple securitythings in place can be super helpful.
What do you say to people when you givepresentations to these different groups
(13:00):
that are working with older Americans?
What is the basic advice you give them?
We always tell people, I'm inter friend.
You want to move really slow.
If you get a phone call, firstof all, don't answer the phone.
If it's a number you don't recognize,and then if you get a phone call and
they say it's your bank and it's thesecurity department and someone is trying
to get your money and they want you tomove quickly and do stuff, just take the
(13:24):
time out, hang up the phone, call froma verified number, your ATM or debit
card and flip it over and call back.
If you get an email that claims tobe from the electric company or from
the cable company and your accountfrozen or something like that, or
your bank, don't react immediately.
Pause.
Don't talk to someone else.
(13:45):
Sleep on it overnight.
The criminals are relying onyou to make a bad rough decision
and you want to take your time.
I think what you just said, it'sinteresting, is that one of the things
that I've heard over and over and overagain is Not use the contact as the
contact in terms of what I mean by thatis if your Energy company calls you up
(14:07):
says the accounts been frozen Hang upand go on and find out what the actual
line number is to your energy companyand call them up Say hey, I just got a
call from such and such is my accountfrozen if you're calling directly into
that They're gonna tell you no youraccounts not frozen and like you said
the pressure to do it quickly freakseverybody out Oh, no, my bank cards been
(14:30):
stolen or whatever There are there youcall the number on the back of the card
because that's the legitimate number Ihad a conversation with friend recently.
He's like, why don't youjust use common sense?
I'm like A lot of people use common sense.
They're really good at what they do.
They get you even whenyou're using common sense.
It's great advice as far as to use that.
Are there any red flags that olderAmericans can look for when they receive?
(14:53):
Is there anything that's, I know yousaid that take your time with everybody.
Is there anything that like stands outto a person if they're receiving this?
So I mentioned phishing and so phishingare emails that try to trick you
into believing it's someone else.
The big myth I have is.
If you're ever in doubt,don't use your smartphone.
(15:14):
It's way too small.
You want to wait till you get home,open up the email on a big screen,
look to see who is sending it.
Sometimes you have to click thebutton, and if it's coming from an
obscure website, you know it's a scam.
And then a lot of times, the phishingemails will have a hyperlink.
It's like a blue box or a boxthat you need to check on.
(15:36):
Don't click on that but hover your mouseover it and you can only do that at home
You can't do it on your smartphone andyou'll see it's trying to take you to
a really bad spot The most prevalentscam is phishing because it's cheap and
easy for the scammers to do And theyonly need to get one person to click
it a day to make it worthwhile Ruleof thumb is don't click any emails.
(15:58):
Don't click any links in any emailsyou get, even when you trust it.
Go outside of the email becausenow you've got PDF scams and
all these different things.
So just be aware of that,even if it seems really legit.
Go to the side of the thing, likeI said, wait till you get home.
Again, time is yourfriend, not your enemy.
So be aware of that.
Let's shift a little bit and talkabout the financial emotional
(16:20):
consequences for these older adultsor anyone, but specifically we're
talking about older adults today.
What are the consequences forthem for falling for these scams?
What's happening to older Americansthat they're not talking about
or they're embarrassed about?
I met a woman recently whofell for one of the jury scams.
She received a phone call.
She thought it was a deputy from ourlocal sheriff's department and that
(16:44):
she failed to show up for jury duty.
There was a warrant out for her arrest.
She paid a fee, the warrant would go away.
She ended up sending 189.
And when I met this woman a month ortwo after it happened, she was still
beating herself up over it, over 189.
(17:04):
And it meant a lot to her, but itwas also, it was the embarrassment.
It was the shame.
He was doubting herself at these agingand living in a retirement place.
I remember sitting there lookingat her and I said, ma'am, there
are all, everyone I've met who'slost money in a scam is very smart.
You're not the only one.
Don't beat yourself over it.
(17:25):
You know what?
Life will go on.
That's easy for me to say whenI've met someone who's lost.
700, 000 or a million dollarsand it's the same thing.
They're shamed.
They have to tell their family.
They really start doubting whetherthey can handle their own finances
or even live on their own.
So there's those are the ramificationsof people that fall for scam.
It's tremendously sad, and one of thethings that we're trying to do with
(17:49):
this show is to normalize this, tosay, listen, this is not some one off,
this is happening all over the place,normal people are getting scammed, do
not feel like you're alone in this,reach out to places like Rose and other,
by the way, we'll put the Rose linkin the show notes so that people can
click on that if they hear the showand say, oh, I want to find out what's
going on, and there are other people.
(18:10):
Older America, there are other scam sitesthat are really good to help people.
Better Business Bureau has a great one.
Just be aware that there are peopleout there doing good things, but
don't feel like you're alone in this.
So, someone gets scammed, theylose 149 or whatever it is.
And by the way, I hadsomebody try to do that to me.
And I thought to myself, I knowthat when they send you a notice
(18:32):
for jury duty, That unless it's sentwhere you have to sign for it, they
cannot prove that you received it.
So no one's going to bechasing you down for jury duty.
Just let everybody know out there.
And if you really are unsure, call thelocal courthouse, get the number for the
local courthouse and call because that'swho's going to have that information.
What happens to people whenthey've lost this money?
(18:54):
What's the chance of them getting it back?
So it depends.
It depends if you can get theattention of a law enforcement agency
who has the time and expertise.
And unfortunately, lawenforcement is overwhelmed.
When my law enforcement days,we had to only take cases
that were the biggest ones.
(19:14):
And then, where did the money go?
How was it sensed?
If it was sent throughcryptocurrency, you can trace it back.
There's a possibility, but you have tohave someone who knows how to do that.
If money is sent to a foreigncountry, it depends on the country.
But it's, it, I, I would not rely on that.
I know of instances where peoplehave been able to get money back,
(19:37):
usually you don't get the money back.
And that's why we're focusedon the prevention side.
Prevention is absolutely the key in allthis stuff because if they don't get it
in the first place, then you don't haveto worry about trying to get it back.
And it is incredibly difficult and it'sa massive undertaking by law enforcement.
The problem is that it's done all online.
So, it's really diff, yougotta find it and get it.
(20:00):
It could be, follow 14 different serversto get there, and so on and so forth.
One of the things I heard, and I'mcurious about this, have you seen cases
where victims are scanned more than once?
Once they've fallen for ascan, they fall for it again?
Yes.
Because the scammers know that you'revulnerable and that you have money.
And they'll do thingslike a recovery scam.
I had someone who, I know someonewho lost money in a timeshare scam,
(20:24):
who's trying to sell a timeshareto someone offered him money.
They ripped them off and then theyfollowed it up saying we're a law
firm and we know you got scammed andwe know how to get the money back.
And if you give us a retainer, we canpretty much guarantee that we're going
to sue them and get the money back.
So you're just throwingbad money after bad money.
And they'll call againand they'll just try it.
(20:46):
Or if they got you with one scam, they'lltry a variation because they know it's a
legitimate number or a legitimate email.
So it does happen.
That's why, too, if you have afamily member or a friend that's been
scammed, you need to talk to them,make sure they know these scammers
will come after you some more.
So not a single more dime,don't believe these people.
(21:08):
And sometimes you even have tointervene and take over an email
account or even a checking account.
I'm curious.
Considering your law enforcement daysworking for the IRS, how many people are
being arrested and caught for these scams?
What's the Do you know?
I don't have those figures.
When I was at the tail end of my IRScareer, one of my fellow co workers,
(21:32):
colleagues had an investigation onthese scammers out of Jamaica that
were calling people in the UnitedStates, telling them they'd won the
Publisher's Clearinghouse sweepstakes.
And in that case, 10 people were charged.
Pretty much everyone has goneto file or pleaded guilty.
I think there's, therewas one defendant left.
They're trying to extradite.
(21:52):
So there's 10 right there, but itcould be hundreds more out there.
We just don't know.
We can only look at anecdotal ones.
We can look at cases that have beenprosecuted and you could go into the U.
S. Attorney's office or the courthouses.
Both federally and locally andadd up the cases, but I think it's
(22:13):
just a small percentage of whatactually is being really stolen
from people all over the country.
So what could people do, let'ssay I wanted to help protect my
grandmother, my grandfather or anolder adult in my life from this,
what could, what could I practicallydo to help them understand this?
So I recommend that peoplehave a scam prevention plan.
(22:36):
Just hoping it doesn't happen tome or my loved ones is not a plan.
That's just wishful thinking.
So that means being proactive.
So for instance, at Rose, we havea monthly email that goes out,
and it just has the latest scam.
It's free.
All we ask for, name and email.
I also had my partner sign up for it.
(22:57):
So then we can have a conversationwithout me insulting their intelligence.
Because I can say, Hey mom, didyou get the email from Rose?
Did you read that articleon that new scam variation?
And she can say, Oh yeah, I'm, Iwould be ready if that happened.
I'm ready for that.
But little things like that, there are allkinds of nonprofits that do similar things
(23:20):
like us in various parts of the country.
I know there's a, an entityin Green Valley, Arizona.
It's called the Green Valley Scam Squad.
They're part of the Trump movement.
They sign up for their emails aswell because I'm always trying
to learn what's out there.
I'm not an expert.
I just know where to get goodinformation and I know how to share it.
(23:41):
So sign up for anything that youcan't get information and then
just have talks with people.
My mom knows if she's ever in doubt.
And my dad as well.
They know to call me.
One day my mom's computer was lockedup and it was playing a siren saying
there were viruses on her computer.
(24:01):
She knew she could just close thedoor to her office and give me a call.
And I was over at her house withinabout an hour and a half and I
was able to solve the situation.
And I knew if I couldn't figure itout I could call my 20 year old son
then he could really figure it out.
My mom and I had thatconversation ahead of time.
(24:22):
We were proactive.
That way, when a scary thing happenedon her computer, she didn't panic.
She knew she had her phone a friendand seeing me on the other line,
other end of the line ready to go.
That's great advice, having that.
And for people that are out there thatdon't necessarily have that community
or those, that network of people, that'swhy things like Rose are so important.
(24:44):
And it strikes me, and this is not one ofthe questions I was thinking about, but.
Is there any idea of creating anaggregate, like you just said, there's
one in Green Valley and there's Rose andthere's all these stop scam thing, but is
there any organization that's aggregatingthis or help talking to one another
so that there's some collective body?
(25:05):
We have talked about it.
I've actually, I did a podcastwith a gentleman named Steve
Gurney, and I believe he's inEast coast, maybe even Virginia.
And he does a lot of, he's like a senioradvocate, brings together older adults to
share information on a variety of topics.
And I actually did a podcast with aretired FBI agent and Steve brought
(25:26):
up the idea of having some sort ofcollective or umbrella organization
where we could work together.
It's tough.
Someone's got to take the lead,but I would be totally willing to
participate in something like that.
Right now, we have all these greatorganizations scattered across the
country, and we also have a lot ofgreat law enforcement agencies and
(25:47):
other groups, but it's really tough.
Yeah, I know shamrock.
org has started to bring law enforcementpeople together to just have this
conversation as like a starting point.
Let's think about like AARP would be, orthe Better Business Bureau or something.
It seems like these organizations to,and they may very well be, I don't
know, I need to do a little bit ofdeeper dive into that because that seems
(26:09):
like a common sense way of At leastmaking everybody aware as opposed to
just being lucky to have Brian Watsonas your son to be able to help it
because there are people out there thatdo not have that luxury if you will.
We talked about this.
We talked about it with Rose.
But are there any other tools orresources, maybe law enforcement, things
that you would recommend that olderAmericans have bookmarked, things that
(26:32):
they can reach out to if they feel likethey might, a scam might be in the works?
I would just reach out to alocal law enforcement agency.
Every police department would ratherspend five or 10 minutes on the front
end of a potential scam than trying tospend hours, days, and weeks trying to
(26:53):
investigate and chase that money down.
You are not going to bother yourlocal law enforcement agency.
They want to help you out.
One thing that we haven't really talkedabout that I'm curious from you working
with Rose and doing all that is not thatwe're looking for salacious news, but.
Can you give us some examples of scamsthat have actually happened of people,
you know, just so we could be awareof the types of things that we know we
(27:16):
have fishing and smishing and pushingall these different things that are
coming out, pig butchering, everything.
But what are some of the thingsthat older Americans might want
to be on the lookout for and maybesome real life examples of that?
No, I, I have accumulatedstories, unfortunately, when I do
presentations, people will literallywalk up to me afterwards and share
(27:37):
their stories, sometimes in peers.
I have two that come to mind.
I did a presentation inmy hometown last year.
Gentleman walks up to me afterwardsand says, Can you look at something?
And I want you to look at itand give me your honest opinion.
I thought I won a sweepstake.
And I've sent them some money,but I haven't got my money yet.
And it was the PublicDeclaring House scam.
(28:01):
And he showed me some documents.
And it included a picture ofa check with his name on it.
And he had paid them 300, 000 in feesand taxes and had not yet received any
part of his 10 million reported wins.
And it only took me a fewseconds to look at it.
(28:21):
And I looked him in his eyes andsaid, sir, you are being scammed.
You can not give another penny more.
And he looked at me and he was broken.
And this was a gentleman in his seventies.
And I talked to him later and hewas considering going back to work.
Cause he sold a house, paidfor those fees and taxes.
And then the other one I'd liketo share, it was the same evening.
(28:43):
A lady came up to me.
They said, I've been scammed,affected me tremendously, where I
can't watch TV or read the newspaper,but I want to share my story.
So I ended up doing a TV interviewwith her and a radio interview,
and she had received an email,claimed to be from McAfee.
She happened to have McAfee, andthey said, we've upgraded your
(29:03):
service, it'll be 20 more a month.
If you don't want that extra payment, andyou want to keep your original level of
service, you need to email us immediately.
And or call us immediately and we'llreverse it called he's talking to
scammers They convinced her to giveremote access on her computer so she
(29:26):
could refund the twenty dollars backto herself They got on her computer.
They started moving moneyaround then they made it appear
that they'd sent her 20, 000
Keeping her on the phonewith high pressure.
They had her withdraw cash from her bankaccount, deposit it into a Bitcoin ATM.
When all was said anddone, she lost 35, 000.
(29:50):
And actually when I did the finalradio show with her, she actually
said, I finally forgiven myself.
So this is a woman, very smart,hardworking, now retired, lost 35,
000 and she was beating herself up,mentally, for falling for the scam.
(30:10):
But she said doing the TV and radiointerviews were actually very therapeutic,
and helpful process her mistake.
And you know what, I was so proud ofher, because her sharing her story, I
know helped other people and preventedthem from falling for a similar scam.
If there was any theme I wanted to expressto everyone listening is that if there's
(30:33):
a theme that I constantly hear from peopleis they're embarrassed and those people
that come forward, even them, they'relike, ah, I can't believe I'm gonna do
this, but I want to help make sure no,that doesn't happen to anybody else.
It is happening to other people.
Sharing your story is a way ofgetting the word out and helping
other people's kudos to her.
Anyone else that's sharing their story.
Kudos to you, Brian, for doing this work.
(30:55):
I think that the more people wecan protect and help, lest anybody
think that this is not serious,we are under attack as a nation.
We truly are under attack as a nation.
It's so almost scarily secretivethat we worry about all this outside
stuff, but we don't even realizethat it's right in front of us, right
(31:15):
under our noses every single day.
People out there want to take.
And we can say, Oh, don't be greedy.
You're rich.
It's like, yeah, but some of these peopleare a postal worker who worked their
whole life to have a good retirementand it's gone and now they got to
go back and be a greeter at Walmart.
Because this stuff happens.
So please share your stories.
Thank you, Brian, for doingthe work that you're doing.
(31:36):
I want to encourage anybody that'slistening, reach out to Rose or an
organization like that for help,or just to inform yourself about
what's going on out there andthe things to protect yourself.
So again, Brian Watson, thank you somuch for coming on the show today.
We really appreciate your time.
Thank you, Brandon.
I really appreciate it.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.