In recent years, reports of sexual assault involving young athletes have revealed a troubling side of sports. Abuse by coaches, medical professionals, managers, and even fellow athletes has occurred in the United States and abroad, leaving lasting scars on victims, both women and men. These cases raise pressing questions: Have sports organizations and law enforcement done enough to hold perpetrators accountable, protect athletes, and prevent future abuse?
The Army of Survivors is a leading voice for athletes who have experienced sexual assault, working to raise awareness and drive systemic change from the perspective of survivors themselves. In this episode of The Sports Business Podcast with Prof. C, I speak with two of the organization's leaders to discuss its history, mission, and the future: The Army of Survivors' Executive Director, Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran, and its President and Founder, Grace French.
Join us for a powerful and timely conversation you won't want to miss.
Host and Executive Producer: Mark Conrad Producer: Victoria Ilano Additional Production: Jeffrey Haynes Artwork: Pamela V. White Marketing: Michelle Miller Music: ”MarcusWay/Energetic Pop Punk/Tribe of Noise”
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Hello and
welcome to the Sports Business Podcastwith Prof.
C, the podcast that exploresthe world of professional,
collegiate, amateur, and Olympic sports.
I'm Mark Conrad, or Prof.
C, from FordhamUniversity's Gabelli School of Business,
where I serve as Professor of Lawand Ethics and the Director
(00:32):
of the Sports Business Initiative.
In recent years, reportsof sexual assault of young athletes
have exposed an ugly side of sports.
Abuse by coaches,medical professionals, managers,
and even other athletes have taken placein the United States and abroad.
(00:52):
Victims, both women and men,
have been scarred because of the abuse,
and one can questionwhether stakeholders in the sports
industry and law enforcementhave done enough to catch wrongdoers,
punish them, and create policiesto prevent this conduct from happening.
The Army of Survivors is a global leader
(01:16):
in advocating for survivorsof sexual assault in sport.
The nonprofit organizationwas founded in 2018
by more than 40 survivors of sexual abuse
that was enabled by USA Gymnastics,Michigan State University, the U.S.
Olympic Committee, and the FBI.
(01:39):
This unique historyallows the Army of Survivors
to bring awareness to the systemic problem
of sexual abuse of athletesfrom the lens of athlete survivors.
The goal is to end sexual violence
in sports by ensuring all perpetrators,those who collude with perpetrators,
(02:00):
and those who fail to actare held accountable.
I am delighted to welcometwo of the leaders of the organization
who will discuss its history,mission and future.
The Army of Survivors Executive Director,
Julie Ann Rivers Cochran
and its president and founder,Grace French.
(02:22):
Welcome to both of youto the Sports Business Podcast.
Julie Ann is an international leader
in the field of preventionand intervention of abuse in sport.
Before joining the Army of Survivors,she worked for the National Center
on DomesticViolence, Trauma, and Mental Health.
(02:43):
As a survivor of childhood trauma,Julie Ann is a fierce advocate
whose experience
with the impact of sexual assaultand domestic violence
has translatedinto a lifelong goal of listening to,
then advocating for survivorswhile holding perpetrators
and the systemthat supports them accountable.
(03:07):
She is an
academic advisory board member and facultyfor the International Olympic
Committee's Safeguarding Officer in SportsProgram, advisory board
member of the International Safeguardsfor Children in Sport.
She holds a master’s degree in social workfrom Florida State University,
a bachelor's degree in communicationslash journalism from St.
(03:30):
John Fisher College,and an executive certificate
from the University of NotreDame's Mendoza College of Business.
Organization President and Founder
Grace French is a dancer, marketer,and strategist
dedicated to transforming athletes’ safetyand survivors’ rights.
(03:51):
Grace's passion for dance continues
throughout her workas a coach at multiple nationally
recognized youthdance studios across Michigan.
As a survivor of the now disgracedMichigan State University doctor,
she has committed her lifeto changing the culture of sport,
(04:11):
consent, and institutional accountability,
ensuring no one else enduressexual violence or abuse.
Grace testified
before Congressin support of athlete safety.
She spoke at the UN GeneralAssembly in 2019
to advocate for a worldwide survivorbill of rights.
She serves on the advisory boardof SafeSport International
(04:35):
and the International Safeguardsfor Children in Sport
and has contributed as an expert advisor
on global projects with FIFA,the International Olympic Committee,
the World Players Association,and the Sport and Rights Alliance.
Grace has played a key role in passingnine laws in Michigan to expand
(04:56):
the statute of limitations and strengthenmandatory reporting requirements.
She also held past the Empowering Olympic,Paralympic and Amateur Athletes
Act of 2020, which enhanced athleteprotections across the United States.
Her work has earned numerous accolades,including an Arthur
Ashe Courage Award at the 2018 ESPYs.
(05:20):
Grace earned her BBA from the Universityof Michigan's Ross School of Business.
Before we begin,in the interest of disclosure,
one member of the Board of Directorsof the Army of Survivors
is a former studentand someone who I remain
in contact since her graduation.
She had mentionedthe Army of Survivors to me,
(05:42):
and that's what led me to learnmore about the organization.
With all this in mind, let's begin.
Can you tell us the historyof the Army of Survivors
and what are the reasonswhy the organization was created?
Start with Julie Anne.
So we always like to offer a content
warning and advisory warning per se.
(06:04):
And please note,we will be discussing abuse in sports
throughout our time together.
And that will include lived experiences.
So those listening,if any of you are a survivor,
whether you have chosen to discloseor decide never to.
It's your choiceand please know that it's not your fault.
You're worthy of healingand we believe you.
(06:27):
Thanks, Julie Ann, and thank you, Mark,so much for having us.
We are honored to be hereand to be discussing this topic.
The Army of Survivors was foundedwhen around 500 survivors came forward
about abuse that they had experiencedby the now disgraced Michigan State
University doctor and enabled by MSU,
USA Gymnastics, the USOPC, and the FBI.
(06:50):
A lot of us found that we
love to turn our strength to power,
and liked to do our healing throughcreating systems and cultural change
to ensure that no one experiencedwhat we did.
So about 40 of us came togetherand created a shared vision
(07:11):
for the future, which was a safer,more accountable sports environment.
And that'show the Army of Survivors was born
because we knew that we were not alonein our experience of abuse in sport.
From the beginning,our organization has been survivor
founded and survivor led,and we have an incredible team
of advocates and athletes and gender-basedviolence experts and staff.
(07:34):
Our mission is to bring awareness,accountability,
and transparency to sexual violenceagainst athletes at all levels.
And through our three programmaticpillars, education,
advocacy, and resources,we take a public health approach
to addressing the rootcauses of abuse in sports communities.
We know that abuse in sports is not rare,unfortunately.
Globally, about 13 % of athletes
(07:56):
experience sexual abusetied to their participation.
And in the US, where overhalf of the youth are enrolled
in sports,this translates to millions of children
each yearexperiencing abuse within sports.
So the Army of Survivors existsto address this reality
and ensure that sports can be a safe space
and bring joy to all.
(08:18):
And the purpose of your organizationis to end sexual violence in sports
by providing resources,education, and advocacy.
What are you doingto accomplish these goals?
Thank you, Mark.
And again, thank youso much for having us here today.
I'll tell you, we're doing a lot.
We’redoing a lot to accomplish those goals.
(08:39):
As Grace illustrated, our work is athletesurvivor founded and survivor led.
And we carry out our work through thosethree pillars you just mentioned.
And we do this using a trauma-informedlens in partnership with athlete survivors
and diverse entities in sportsfrom all over the globe.
In terms of education,
our signature educational opportunityis the Compassionate Coach course.
(09:03):
And that's an eight weekvirtual training, live taught
by an Olympic coachand crisis interventionist.
And although we do know thatabuse is systemic and not just perpetrated
by coaches, they really do play a keyrole in creating safe sporting
environments, healthy teen cultures,and in preventing abuse in sports.
(09:23):
So we felt it was really criticalthat we had a premier opportunity for
coaches to help us create
and transform the sports culture into one
that is athlete centeredand really focuses on athlete well-being.
In our advocacy pillar, we championtrauma-informed legislation and policy.
We do that through elevatingsurvivor voices, and we partner
(09:46):
with institutions to create safersporting environments for athletes.
We work, of course, with policymakersto create systemic change
within the world of sports.And I'll share a little bit later
about one legislative effortthat we do have underway right now.
But in addition to legislative advocacy,we also advocate for policies
and practices with sports entitieslike sports governing bodies.
(10:10):
One example is specific
to our international policy involvinga project we worked on with FIFA.
So we embarked on a six monthinitiative with them to look at
how do we safely engagea diverse group of athletes worldwide
to offer feedback and opinionsabout what they were hoping to do
in creating an international safesport entity.
(10:32):
We knew that for safe sport entitiesto succeed athletes and athletes survivors
with lived experiencesin sport must be at the center
of all planning of an entity like that,as well as the implementation,
excuse me, and evaluation.
So we worked with otherallied organizations to...how to
really frame for a large mammoth sportsgoverning body
(10:55):
like FIFA to truly look athow do we do that?
How do we create this ground up entityto ensure if it's a reporting entity,
if it's an entitythat provides healing and support
for those that disclose abuse,how are you ensuring that those people
that it's actually created forare at the very center of its growth?
(11:17):
So that's another waythat we do advocate.
Then through our other resource,our final one,
our finer pillar, excuse me, is resources.
And when we talk about resources,we're talking about resources
specific to athlete experiencesand they're designed with athlete
input to ensure efficacyand the relevance to the sports community.
(11:38):
So we offer resources such as on topics
on barriers for reporting abuse in sports
or an athlete survivormental health crisis safety plan.
One thing that we foundhas become very popular in our community
is the abuse in sportspower and control wheel
that we adapted from the DuluthIntervention Project model.
(12:01):
And that resource focuses on powerdynamics
of abuse specific to sports and athletes.
That's just another example.
I'm happyto give more detail about all of those.
Actually, I'll stop there for now.
Thank you.
Grace,do you want to add anything to that?
I think Julie Ann did a great jobof explaining some of our programs.
(12:23):
Although, if you'd like me to explain
or to expand on any of those, I'mhappy to, Mark.
I do have one question.
Are you also looking to coaching abusegenerally?
Not sexual abuse,but just abusive coaching?
I shouldn't say “just”
because that's a big problem as welland a traumatic problem.
(12:45):
So are you expanding to that area too?
Yeah, that's a great point.
And we do realizeand recognize that abuse in sports
is not just specificto any one type of abuse.
And sexual abuse is one
sort of scratching the surface
of all the various different waysthat athletes are abused
(13:08):
in sport emotionally, psychologically,financially even sometimes.
So we see the whole ecosystemof abuse in sport,
including all those variousforms of abuse, not just sexual assault.
And do you think that one of the problemsin the United States
is that we have a very fragmentedOlympic sports system where we don't have
(13:31):
a national ministry of sportor the same kind of national organization?
Do you think that that has hurt the systemor hurt athletes
or maybe a national system
may not or may helpathletes in this quest?
I mean, have you had any thoughtsabout the structure of the system
(13:52):
as we have it in the United States?
So I think what harms within the systemthat's so fragmented
is that athletes don't have one specificreporting system that they can go to that
they can deeply understand the policiesand procedures for reporting abuse.
And so I think that is
(14:14):
harmful with the system as it is today.
I do think that
having a system
that holdsall the power can also be harmful
because if there are peoplewho have ill intentions
or abuse the power
that existsand then they have the power over
(14:35):
all of the sportswithin the United States,
that can also cause problemswithout checks and balances
and without accountability and withoutthose people deeply understanding
how abuse in sport happens or the nuancesof sport within gender-based violence.
So there are
(14:55):
harmful parts of this system
and there are helpful parts of the systemthat I think,
you know you just have to balance how
you want to approach the solutionto this problem.
Julie Ann, what am I missing?
Nothing.
I think, you know, justthat approach is just reestablishing
that public health modeland looking at all of the attitudes,
(15:17):
knowledge, beliefs and behaviorsthat are tacitly supported in our culture
to have power over and have powerimbalances and relationships.
And that plays out in the sportscommunity day in and day out.
What kinds of
information or servicesdoes the organization provide?
(15:37):
A lot.
We offer training, technical assistance,and consultation to sports organizations
from international federationsto grassroots local sports teams.
And our training and technicalassistance engagements vary,
and they’re really based onthe distinctive needs of the organization.
They’re player centered and guided by
(15:58):
input that we gather in our listeningsessions.
In addition, we are currently the officein violence against women’s
national trainingand technical assistance provider.
And that initiativeallows us to expand our education outreach
and training for OVW granteesand their subcontractors,
ensuringthat service providers, advocates,
(16:21):
and sports organizations are equippedwith trauma-informed strategies
to support athleteswith lived experiences of abuse.
And I bring that upbecause we don’t want anyone thinking
that we only work with sports entities,
that there are so many advocates outthere, sexual assault providers, child
advocacy centers that are doing amazingwork with survivors of sexual assault,
(16:47):
but they may not have that pieceabout what it means to be an athlete
and what are thoseunique coercive control tactics
that someone abusing them in sportmight be using.
So we are right nowcurrently collecting feedback from
those service providers around the country
through listening sessions and roundtables, and we’ll have a national
(17:10):
TTA plan and toolkit eventually prepared,
which we hope to have releasedin early ’26.
Also, if given time, wanted to point outthat one
unique attribute of our servicesthat is threaded throughout
all of our programs is our trauma-informedapproach to athlete safeguarding.
(17:31):
And this includes the understandingof the pervasiveness and impact of trauma
with the goal of mitigating its effects,
including minimizing re-traumatization,supporting healing, resilience,
and wellbeing, while also attendingto the impact of trauma organizationally.
So what does it look likefor a sports body
(17:54):
when there has been a disclosure of abuse?
How does that impact, not just a course,
the importance of the survivor and thewhistleblower, but the entire entity?
And as
far as a trauma-informed approachand how we do our best
to impress the importanceof being trauma-informed
(18:14):
is it’s really grounded in an athlete’shistory,
acknowledgingthe entire context of their experience.
And it starts from a place of assuminga person has experienced trauma
and it shifts the conversation from,which I heard, very early on
in doing this work some 25 plus yearsago, is, “What’s wrong with you?
(18:36):
What’s wrong with youthat you experienced this abuse?”
And now we’re seeing that transformationto, “What happened to you?”
So the blame isn’t placed on the athletefor the abuse they experienced.
So it’s our beliefat the Army of Survivors that in order
to transform the culture where power overathletes is not prioritized
(18:58):
and instead athletesand their wellbeing are being centered.
So organizationshave to commit to creating an environment
where the entire eco-systemcenters athletes
and is committed to being trauma informed,so this means not just those individuals
working at a safe sport entity,for example, like we talked about earlier,
(19:19):
but everybody from the top downat each sports organization. We need to
make sure that they’re committedto creating a trauma informed environment
where fear of disclosing abuse,for fear of punishment
either by survivors or whistleblowersisn’t common place anymore as it is now.
And if this doesn’t happen, athletes won’tfeel safe to share,
(19:41):
and promoting safety and healingand building trust is a key element
to working with athlete survivorsof sexual abuse in sport.
We have read about the abuse of athletes
in particular in women's gymnastics.
Do you think that was justthe tip of the iceberg,
and do you think the issue has beenunder-reported and underestimated?
(20:03):
Yes, I believe thatwhat the public saw in gymnastics
was only one highly visible caseand it is not an isolated incident.
Abuse in sportsis consistently underreported.
And like I mentionedearlier, the reality is that
13 % of athletes worldwide
have reported experiencing sexual abusein a sporting context.
(20:26):
And athletes faceunique barriers to reporting.
There's power dynamics where coachesor other people of influence in sport
control things like their scholarships,their playing time, and future
career opportunities.
Then there's the factthat so many young people,
their entire identityis tied in being an athlete
and the sport itself, so speaking upfeels like they're risking everything,
(20:51):
including the sport that they loveand their future career opportunities.
And beyond that, the sports culture itselfoften works
against the disclosure and reporting.
There's a tough it out mentalitywhere mistreatment gets normalized
or loyalty to a coach or team keeps kidsquiet to protect the coach or the team.
(21:11):
And athletes are taught
to sacrifice their body for their sportand consistently push through pain.
So even if an athlete does wantto come forward, the reporting systems
and the culture in placeare keeping them from that.
And specifically with reporting systems,they're often confusing
or controlled by the organizationsthat failed to protect those athletes
(21:32):
in the first place.
So to answer your question,yeah, gymnastics was one
just highly visible example,but it's far from the only one.
Abuse in sports,we believe, has been deeply
underestimatedand without big systemic change,
it will stay under-reported,and survivors will remain unsupported.
So one of the incredible projectsthat we're working on at the Army
(21:56):
of Survivors is we're working to geta better understanding of the prevalence
within the United States.
And our organization has a study in theworks with UW Madison on the prevalence
of sexual violence in sportat elite levels in the United States.
So we're very excited to dive deeperinto this specific question.
Have you advocated or would
(22:16):
considerkind of a national reporting system,
run by maybe a government organizationthat would be separate and distinct
from the for a sports federationsand governing bodies?
We haven't advocatedfor that specifically,
but we have been advocating foris a transformation
(22:36):
and reformation of the current sporting
and reporting system.
Okay, we are speaking
with Julie AnneRivers-Cochran, Executive Director,
and Grace French,the President of the Army of Survivors.
So do you think that
in the last couple of yearsthe reporting and sanctioning
(22:58):
of sexual abuse has improvedor has been more aggressive?
And if not, what else has to be done?
Thank you, I think this is an incrediblyimportant question to address.
But before I do, I wanted to note that
to truly prevent abuse in sports,
(23:19):
we believe that national governing bodies,international federations,
university athletics, grassroots,and professional sports teams,
they all need to first admitthat abuse is happening in their sport,
no matter if athletes are coming forwardto report and disclose or not.
If they're not, and we tell thisto lots of sports governing bodies
(23:40):
if we have the opportunityto speak with them.
If they're not, it's likelybecause there's already a culture of fear
within the sporting institution,preventing athletes and whistleblowers
from sharing.
Fear of not being believed,lots of the other situations
that Grace talked about before.
Fear of punishment, like being cutfrom the team or a competition.
(24:01):
Fear of the stigma of abuse.
That list really goes on and on.All to say that there is a systemic
failure of sports institutionsto prevent abuse from happening.
So in regardsto your question though, Mark,
TAoS’s Founders case in the subsequent
sentencingand imprisonment of the perpetrator
(24:22):
revealed that those that cause harmand abuse of athletes do not do so
without the support of systemsthat also conceal the abuse.
So we refer to that conceptas institutional betrayal.
In the US, in the result, of our foundersexperienced the US Center for Safe Sport,
we know was legislativelycreated in concert with the Protecting
(24:46):
Young Victims from Sexual Abuseand Safe Sport Authorization Act of 2017.
And this was done to addressabuse and misconduct
within the Olympicand Paralympic movement.
The center itself,if you're not familiar with it, consists
of three departments that work togetherto achieve their mission.
And those departments are responseand resolution,
(25:07):
organizational development,and compliance education and outreach.
So not just investigating the reportsthat come to them.
And the amount of reportsthat they receive has increased
dramatically year after yearwith limited staff and limited funding.
So to
really answeryour question, reporting has improved
(25:28):
in that a system was createdwhere reports are taken
and some athletes have found justicethrough that process.
However, in 2022, we began to hearfrom athletes survivors of sexual abuse
who have been retraumatizedand experienced retraumatizing
investigative practices with the center.
(25:50):
So in order to do our due diligenceat the MRA survivors, we conducted
a series of interviews with a diversegroup of athletes across several different
sports, different genders, ages,levels of competition, that sort of thing,
regarding their experiences with reportingsexual assault with the center.
And through these discussionswith athletes, survivors, and witnesses
(26:11):
of sexual abuse in sports, regardinghow their cases were handled explicitly,
it became clear that more reformsand guidance are needed
to ensure accountability of individualsand institutions, also best practices
in trauma-informed training and support,and more transparency within the center.
(26:33):
So as a result of several brave
survivors and whistleblowerssharing their stories with us,
we created several recommendationson how governing bodies, organizations
conducting independent investigationslike US Center for Safe Sport,
how they can better improve safety,promote wellness,
and prevent sexual violenceand harassment in the future.
(26:55):
We also worked closely with lawmakersabout our findings
through our listening sessions,
which basically culminatedin the bipartisan introduction
of the Safer Sports for AthletesAct in Congress last December.
This legislation addresses systemicfailures and safeguarding, enhances
investigative processes at the US Centerfor Safe Sport, provides survivor support,
(27:18):
and it
also allocatesfunding for abuse prevention.
That Bill took us overtwo years of coalition building
and we're really hoping to seethat it will be introduced again
now that we have a new administrationin a bipartisan manner
during this next session coming up.
I will also note that TAoShas been working closely with the center
(27:41):
through training and technical assistanceto help their policies
and practices become more athlete-centeredand trauma-informed.
And as a result, thus far,they really have,
I wouldn't saynecessarily as a result of that,
but just coming to us and asking forour support was really a display
of institutional courage, which has beena shift that we've been able to see.
(28:01):
And throughout our engagement together,we've seen that as well.
But the reality is actual systems
change takes long term efforts
and the transformationat all levels of the center's ecosystem.
So we're gonna continue to do our bestto amplify survivor voice and press on
for more trauma-informed system responsewithin the center.
(28:23):
And the headlines have spoken
and focused
recently on girls and young women's abuse.
But do you think that the abuse of boysand young
men need to be addressedin greater detail?
And does the army of survivorsalso focus on male athletes
who’ve been sexually abusedor coaching abuse generally?
(28:46):
Absolutely,and I'm so glad you brought this up.
The Army of Survivors,we do not focus on one gender,
one race, one sport,or even one level of sport.
What we do know is abuse in sports has thepotential to impact everyone.
We have
had board members who identify as menwho are sexually abused in
sports, and currently, San Francisco 49ersSuper Bowl defensive star Dwight
(29:11):
Hicks serves on our board.And Dwight is a survivor of sexual abuse
by a doctorthat worked at the University of Michigan
while he was a studentplaying football for U of M.
I don't know if you're also awareor your listeners have already seen
the new Netflix documentary, SurvivingOhio State, which shares
the story of hundreds of male students,many of them hockey players and wrestlers.
(29:36):
Grace talked about prevalence.Forall genders
regarding 13%, having experiencedsexual assault in sport as a child.
Prevalence research also indicatesthat at least one in six men
have experienced sexual assault or abuse,whether in childhood or as adults.
(29:57):
Of note, one in three women
have experienced physicaland sexual assault in their lifetime.
And we also know, as Grace pointed outearlier, that sexual abuse
is extremely under-reported.
There are many barriersthat prevent survivors from disclosing.
And we also know that maleswho have experienced sexual assault
are less likely to disclose than females.
(30:20):
The question is, why is this, of course?
And many factorsdo contribute to the myth that boys
and men do not experience sexual abusein sports.
Socialization is definitely one factor.
And men we know are taught at a young ageto not identify as victims.
They're told to suppress emotions,
avoid vulnerabilityand never even ask for help.
(30:43):
Then you lay that extra layerof socialization that sports contributes.
And we know that sports is foundationalto many childhoods
when we're being socialized.
Especially in elite levels, successat the highest
degree is tied to dedication during youth.
And this places the sports worldin a critical position, we believe,
(31:04):
as both a socializing mechanism
and a potential site for abuse.
So layering this context and powerwith many of the traditional coaching
mantras of no pain,no gain, push through pain,
and winning at all costs,and there's an undeniable setup
for vulnerability and exploitationof all genders and identities.
(31:29):
And we're continuing our conversationwith Julie Anne Rivers
Cochran and GraceFrench of the Army of Survivors.
So, what are the future plansfor the Army of Survivors?
Gosh, our future plansinclude our continuing
to make significant progressadvocating for Athlete Survivor
Center policies and practicesinternationally on a global stage.
(31:54):
In terms of our advocacy, for example,I was recently appointed vice chair
of the independent panel for the FIFAFoundation’s Safe Football Support Unit,
which is a brand new entity.And that unit is led by an independent
panel supported by special advisorsand a survivors advisory group.
In the role of vice chair,I'll be consistently bringing a trauma
(32:16):
informed athlete survivorcentered point of view to the panel's work
as the unit is being establishedand TAoS as a whole.
Our team will be working with thatsurvivors advisory group as it is
created to ensurethat their voice is paramount
to the success of this entityand how it's put together,
(32:37):
which it's really excitingto even just talk about that,
even though
it's not even in the worksother than just getting started,
because it's the first timewe're seeing a safe
sport entity truly embed survivor voice
at the very beginning of the developmentof its policies and practices.
(32:57):
So that's one thingthat we'll be working on in the future.
Education-wise, we currently receive
funding to adapt Compassionate Coach.
We have a waiting list of coachesthat are interested
in the course from countriesall over the world.
So we'll be adapting itto meet the linguistic and culturally
specific needs of coaches and athletesfrom communities outside of the U.S.
(33:22):
As I mentioned before,we develop programming based on listening
to athlete survivors and one programwe are seeking funding for
is based on athletessharing that they want a forum to connect
with one another in a more formal way.
We're calling
it the Athlete SurvivorPeer Support Network
and that will be a peer-ledtrauma-informed program
(33:45):
that once fully funded will fostera global compassionate community
united to offer encouragementpromote healing,
reduce isolation and stigma, and also
provide practical support.
That’s some of what we see in the future.
And one question just came up in my mind,which we haven't talked about,
(34:05):
disabled athletes and abuse.
Have you been doing any work in that area?
Well,we were talking about prevalence before.
We know that athletes with a disabilityare at a higher risk
of being abused,anyone with a disability period.
So although we have not had the honorand privilege to be working directly
(34:29):
with some of thevery inspiring organizations
that do focus on paraathletes and para Olympians,
all of our work is based on looking at allindividuals of sport
and how they are through their identities,
how they experience sport,
how they have higher riskof being abused in sport,
(34:53):
and how we can tailor
all of our programming to do our bestto meet the needs of all athletes.
And this last questionis a little bit of a change of pace
and it will be addressed to Grace.
For those of you who do not know,my interest does not only cover sports,
but also covers the performing artsas I studied music
(35:14):
at an earlier stage in my life.
With thisin mind, Grace, the question for you,
as somebody who studied dance, the issue
of sexual abusebased on power relationship in that art
has been discussedas part of the Me Too movement.
Could you discuss what you thinkis problematic in the dance world
and what can and should be done?
(35:37):
Mark, I love this question.
As somebody who's still in the dance worldas a coach,
I think there are so many issuesthat I see on the daily
that really need to be addressedwhen it comes to this issue.
I think dance is really uniquebecause it does sit
at the intersection of both sport and art.
So like other athletes, dancersspend long hours training,
(35:58):
rehearsing and performing in our bodiesor our instruments.
From a young age,we're taught to sacrifice comfort, rest,
and even safety in the service of the artand the performance.
And that includes the sacrificeof our bodies.
And it creates a culture where
we're used to pushing through painand ignoring boundaries.
(36:20):
And that can feel extremely normal.
Another challengespecifically within dance
is that we do not have a clearnational governing body,
at least in the USand in the way that many other sports do.
So on one hand, that allowsfor a lot more creativity and freedom and
which is a beautiful part of the art form.
(36:41):
But it also means there isn't
a consistent system for reporting abuseor reporting concerns within dance.
So if a dancer experiences harm,it is often dependent
on the individual studio, the company,or even the school to decide what happens
next in terms of repercussionsfor the individual who has been reported.
(37:05):
And too oftenthere are no formal policies in place
in those individual places.
So dancersdon't really know where to turn.
But additionally,
there are also dynamicsthat come from the artistic side of dance.
So things like subjectivescoring at competitions
or casting for roles in productions.
(37:27):
So favoritism and politicsplay a huge role in whether someone
advances or gets additional opportunity,which gives teachers,
directors, and choreographersa lot more power and incredible influence
over the dancer’sindividual experience within the sport.
And because dance is then
so tied to identity,and many of us grew up saying,
(37:51):
introducing ourselvesfirst as I'm a dancer,
the idea of losing accessto that training,
those opportunities, those roles,or even the career,
if we have that aspiration, feels likelosing a big part of who you are.
So it makes the stakes of reportingeven higher.
so dance can be an incredibly powerful
(38:12):
and empowering art form, butthere's a lack of consistent protections
and a culture of pushing through pain,which creates these huge vulnerabilities.
So I think what can and should be donewithin the dance world is,
building clearer safetypathways in school studios and companies
while still honoring the artistryand individuality of the dance world
(38:33):
and understanding the nuancesthat come with dance
and how reporting and creating safe spaces
need to be adjusted for the dance worldbecause of those nuances.
I think
starting out a simple step is for peopleto do background checks on teachers
who are coming through to understanddeeply
(38:55):
who has already
been reported as abusive.
There have been multiple articlesalready out of choreographers and teachers
who have been abusiveto dancers in the past.
And that was,if I think about three years ago, I'd say,
and I'm already seeingthose choreographers and teachers
(39:17):
getting rehired at studiosand back in the dance world.
And so I think there's a needfor background checks
for deep research on who you're bringinginto your studio with your students
and then for clearerreporting systems as well.
Fascinating and we probably could havea whole broadcast just on that topic.
(39:37):
But unfortunately,
we've come to the end of our timeon behalf of Fordham University,
the Gabelli School of Businessand the Sports Business Initiative.
I want to extend mythanks to Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran and
Grace French from the Army of Survivors.
You both gave important insightsabout a troubling but important
(39:59):
and I hope that the continued work forthe organization will end this scourge.
For more information,check out the organization's website
The Army of Survivors, it's all one word,
dot org, armyofsurvivors.org.
I want to acknowledge my producerVictoria Ilano,
for her great workin preparing and editing this episode.
(40:22):
And finally, many thanks to all of youfor listening for the Sports Business
Podcast at Fordham’s Gabelli Schoolof Business, I’m Mark Conrad or Prof.
C, have a great day.
Hello and
welcome to the Sports Business Podcastwith Prof.
C, the podcast that exploresthe world of professional,
collegiate, amateur, and Olympic sports.
I'm Mark Conrad, or Prof.
C, from FordhamUniversity's Gabelli School of Business,
where I serve as Professor of Lawand Ethics and the Director
(00:32):
of the Sports Business Initiative.
In recent years, reportsof sexual assault of young athletes
have exposed an ugly side of sports.
Abuse by coaches,medical professionals, managers,
and even other athletes have taken placein the United States and abroad.
(00:52):
Victims, both women and men,
have been scarred because of the abuse,
and one can questionwhether stakeholders in the sports
industry and law enforcementhave done enough to catch wrongdoers,
punish them, and create policiesto prevent this conduct from happening.
The Army of Survivors is a global leader
(01:16):
in advocating for survivorsof sexual assault in sport.
The nonprofit organizationwas founded in 2018
by more than 40 survivors of sexual abuse
that was enabled by USA Gymnastics,Michigan State University, the U.S.
Olympic Committee, and the FBI.
(01:39):
This unique historyallows the Army of Survivors
to bring awareness to the systemic problem
of sexual abuse of athletesfrom the lens of athlete survivors.
The goal is to end sexual violence
in sports by ensuring all perpetrators,those who collude with perpetrators,
(02:00):
and those who fail to actare held accountable.
I am delighted to welcometwo of the leaders of the organization
who will discuss its history,mission and future.
The Army of Survivors Executive Director,
Julie Ann Rivers Cochran
and its president and founder,Grace French.
(02:22):
Welcome to both of youto the Sports Business Podcast.
Julie Ann is an international leader
in the field of preventionand intervention of abuse in sport.
Before joining the Army of Survivors,she worked for the National Center
on DomesticViolence, Trauma, and Mental Health.
(02:43):
As a survivor of childhood trauma,Julie Ann is a fierce advocate
whose experience
with the impact of sexual assaultand domestic violence
has translatedinto a lifelong goal of listening to,
then advocating for survivorswhile holding perpetrators
and the systemthat supports them accountable.
(03:07):
She is an
academic advisory board member and facultyfor the International Olympic
Committee's Safeguarding Officer in SportsProgram, advisory board
member of the International Safeguardsfor Children in Sport.
She holds a master’s degree in social workfrom Florida State University,
a bachelor's degree in communicationslash journalism from St.
(03:30):
John Fisher College,and an executive certificate
from the University of NotreDame's Mendoza College of Business.
Organization President and Founder
Grace French is a dancer, marketer,and strategist
dedicated to transforming athletes’ safetyand survivors’ rights.
(03:51):
Grace's passion for dance continues
throughout her workas a coach at multiple nationally
recognized youthdance studios across Michigan.
As a survivor of the now disgracedMichigan State University doctor,
she has committed her lifeto changing the culture of sport,
(04:11):
consent, and institutional accountability,
ensuring no one else enduressexual violence or abuse.
Grace testified
before Congressin support of athlete safety.
She spoke at the UN GeneralAssembly in 2019
to advocate for a worldwide survivorbill of rights.
She serves on the advisory boardof SafeSport International
(04:35):
and the International Safeguardsfor Children in Sport
and has contributed as an expert advisor
on global projects with FIFA,the International Olympic Committee,
the World Players Association,and the Sport and Rights Alliance.
Grace has played a key role in passingnine laws in Michigan to expand
(04:56):
the statute of limitations and strengthenmandatory reporting requirements.
She also held past the Empowering Olympic,Paralympic and Amateur Athletes
Act of 2020, which enhanced athleteprotections across the United States.
Her work has earned numerous accolades,including an Arthur
Ashe Courage Award at the 2018 ESPYs.
(05:20):
Grace earned her BBA from the Universityof Michigan's Ross School of Business.
Before we begin,in the interest of disclosure,
one member of the Board of Directorsof the Army of Survivors
is a former studentand someone who I remain
in contact since her graduation.
She had mentionedthe Army of Survivors to me,
(05:42):
and that's what led me to learnmore about the organization.
With all this in mind, let's begin.
Can you tell us the historyof the Army of Survivors
and what are the reasonswhy the organization was created?
Start with Julie Anne.
So we always like to offer a content
warning and advisory warning per se.
(06:04):
And please note,we will be discussing abuse in sports
throughout our time together.
And that will include lived experiences.
So those listening,if any of you are a survivor,
whether you have chosen to discloseor decide never to.
It's your choiceand please know that it's not your fault.
You're worthy of healingand we believe you.
(06:27):
Thanks, Julie Ann, and thank you, Mark,so much for having us.
We are honored to be hereand to be discussing this topic.
The Army of Survivors was foundedwhen around 500 survivors came forward
about abuse that they had experiencedby the now disgraced Michigan State
University doctor and enabled by MSU,
USA Gymnastics, the USOPC, and the FBI.
(06:50):
A lot of us found that we
love to turn our strength to power,
and liked to do our healing throughcreating systems and cultural change
to ensure that no one experiencedwhat we did.
So about 40 of us came togetherand created a shared vision
(07:11):
for the future, which was a safer,more accountable sports environment.
And that'show the Army of Survivors was born
because we knew that we were not alonein our experience of abuse in sport.
From the beginning,our organization has been survivor
founded and survivor led,and we have an incredible team
of advocates and athletes and gender-basedviolence experts and staff.
(07:34):
Our mission is to bring awareness,accountability,
and transparency to sexual violenceagainst athletes at all levels.
And through our three programmaticpillars, education,
advocacy, and resources,we take a public health approach
to addressing the rootcauses of abuse in sports communities.
We know that abuse in sports is not rare,unfortunately.
Globally, about 13 % of athletes
(07:56):
experience sexual abusetied to their participation.
And in the US, where overhalf of the youth are enrolled
in sports,this translates to millions of children
each yearexperiencing abuse within sports.
So the Army of Survivors existsto address this reality
and ensure that sports can be a safe space
and bring joy to all.
(08:18):
And the purpose of your organizationis to end sexual violence in sports
by providing resources,education, and advocacy.
What are you doingto accomplish these goals?
Thank you, Mark.
And again, thank youso much for having us here today.
I'll tell you, we're doing a lot.
We’redoing a lot to accomplish those goals.
(08:39):
As Grace illustrated, our work is athletesurvivor founded and survivor led.
And we carry out our work through thosethree pillars you just mentioned.
And we do this using a trauma-informedlens in partnership with athlete survivors
and diverse entities in sportsfrom all over the globe.
In terms of education,
our signature educational opportunityis the Compassionate Coach course.
(09:03):
And that's an eight weekvirtual training, live taught
by an Olympic coachand crisis interventionist.
And although we do know thatabuse is systemic and not just perpetrated
by coaches, they really do play a keyrole in creating safe sporting
environments, healthy teen cultures,and in preventing abuse in sports.
(09:23):
So we felt it was really criticalthat we had a premier opportunity for
coaches to help us create
and transform the sports culture into one
that is athlete centeredand really focuses on athlete well-being.
In our advocacy pillar, we championtrauma-informed legislation and policy.
We do that through elevatingsurvivor voices, and we partner
(09:46):
with institutions to create safersporting environments for athletes.
We work, of course, with policymakersto create systemic change
within the world of sports.And I'll share a little bit later
about one legislative effortthat we do have underway right now.
But in addition to legislative advocacy,we also advocate for policies
and practices with sports entitieslike sports governing bodies.
(10:10):
One example is specific
to our international policy involvinga project we worked on with FIFA.
So we embarked on a six monthinitiative with them to look at
how do we safely engagea diverse group of athletes worldwide
to offer feedback and opinionsabout what they were hoping to do
in creating an international safesport entity.
(10:32):
We knew that for safe sport entitiesto succeed athletes and athletes survivors
with lived experiencesin sport must be at the center
of all planning of an entity like that,as well as the implementation,
excuse me, and evaluation.
So we worked with otherallied organizations to...how to
really frame for a large mammoth sportsgoverning body
(10:55):
like FIFA to truly look athow do we do that?
How do we create this ground up entityto ensure if it's a reporting entity,
if it's an entitythat provides healing and support
for those that disclose abuse,how are you ensuring that those people
that it's actually created forare at the very center of its growth?
(11:17):
So that's another waythat we do advocate.
Then through our other resource,our final one,
our finer pillar, excuse me, is resources.
And when we talk about resources,we're talking about resources
specific to athlete experiencesand they're designed with athlete
input to ensure efficacyand the relevance to the sports community.
(11:38):
So we offer resources such as on topics
on barriers for reporting abuse in sports
or an athlete survivormental health crisis safety plan.
One thing that we foundhas become very popular in our community
is the abuse in sportspower and control wheel
that we adapted from the DuluthIntervention Project model.
(12:01):
And that resource focuses on powerdynamics
of abuse specific to sports and athletes.
That's just another example.
I'm happyto give more detail about all of those.
Actually, I'll stop there for now.
Thank you.
Grace,do you want to add anything to that?
I think Julie Ann did a great jobof explaining some of our programs.
(12:23):
Although, if you'd like me to explain
or to expand on any of those, I'mhappy to, Mark.
I do have one question.
Are you also looking to coaching abusegenerally?
Not sexual abuse,but just abusive coaching?
I shouldn't say “just”
because that's a big problem as welland a traumatic problem.
(12:45):
So are you expanding to that area too?
Yeah, that's a great point.
And we do realizeand recognize that abuse in sports
is not just specificto any one type of abuse.
And sexual abuse is one
sort of scratching the surface
of all the various different waysthat athletes are abused
(13:08):
in sport emotionally, psychologically,financially even sometimes.
So we see the whole ecosystemof abuse in sport,
including all those variousforms of abuse, not just sexual assault.
And do you think that one of the problemsin the United States
is that we have a very fragmentedOlympic sports system where we don't have
(13:31):
a national ministry of sportor the same kind of national organization?
Do you think that that has hurt the systemor hurt athletes
or maybe a national system
may not or may helpathletes in this quest?
I mean, have you had any thoughtsabout the structure of the system
(13:52):
as we have it in the United States?
So I think what harms within the systemthat's so fragmented
is that athletes don't have one specificreporting system that they can go to that
they can deeply understand the policiesand procedures for reporting abuse.
And so I think that is
(14:14):
harmful with the system as it is today.
I do think that
having a system
that holdsall the power can also be harmful
because if there are peoplewho have ill intentions
or abuse the power
that existsand then they have the power over
(14:35):
all of the sportswithin the United States,
that can also cause problemswithout checks and balances
and without accountability and withoutthose people deeply understanding
how abuse in sport happens or the nuancesof sport within gender-based violence.
So there are
(14:55):
harmful parts of this system
and there are helpful parts of the systemthat I think,
you know you just have to balance how
you want to approach the solutionto this problem.
Julie Ann, what am I missing?
Nothing.
I think, you know, justthat approach is just reestablishing
that public health modeland looking at all of the attitudes,
(15:17):
knowledge, beliefs and behaviorsthat are tacitly supported in our culture
to have power over and have powerimbalances and relationships.
And that plays out in the sportscommunity day in and day out.
What kinds of
information or servicesdoes the organization provide?
(15:37):
A lot.
We offer training, technical assistance,and consultation to sports organizations
from international federationsto grassroots local sports teams.
And our training and technicalassistance engagements vary,
and they’re really based onthe distinctive needs of the organization.
They’re player centered and guided by
(15:58):
input that we gather in our listeningsessions.
In addition, we are currently the officein violence against women’s
national trainingand technical assistance provider.
And that initiativeallows us to expand our education outreach
and training for OVW granteesand their subcontractors,
ensuringthat service providers, advocates,
(16:21):
and sports organizations are equippedwith trauma-informed strategies
to support athleteswith lived experiences of abuse.
And I bring that upbecause we don’t want anyone thinking
that we only work with sports entities,
that there are so many advocates outthere, sexual assault providers, child
advocacy centers that are doing amazingwork with survivors of sexual assault,
(16:47):
but they may not have that pieceabout what it means to be an athlete
and what are thoseunique coercive control tactics
that someone abusing them in sportmight be using.
So we are right nowcurrently collecting feedback from
those service providers around the country
through listening sessions and roundtables, and we’ll have a national
(17:10):
TTA plan and toolkit eventually prepared,
which we hope to have releasedin early ’26.
Also, if given time, wanted to point outthat one
unique attribute of our servicesthat is threaded throughout
all of our programs is our trauma-informedapproach to athlete safeguarding.
(17:31):
And this includes the understandingof the pervasiveness and impact of trauma
with the goal of mitigating its effects,
including minimizing re-traumatization,supporting healing, resilience,
and wellbeing, while also attendingto the impact of trauma organizationally.
So what does it look likefor a sports body
(17:54):
when there has been a disclosure of abuse?
How does that impact, not just a course,
the importance of the survivor and thewhistleblower, but the entire entity?
And as
far as a trauma-informed approachand how we do our best
to impress the importanceof being trauma-informed
(18:14):
is it’s really grounded in an athlete’shistory,
acknowledgingthe entire context of their experience.
And it starts from a place of assuminga person has experienced trauma
and it shifts the conversation from,which I heard, very early on
in doing this work some 25 plus yearsago, is, “What’s wrong with you?
(18:36):
What’s wrong with youthat you experienced this abuse?”
And now we’re seeing that transformationto, “What happened to you?”
So the blame isn’t placed on the athletefor the abuse they experienced.
So it’s our beliefat the Army of Survivors that in order
to transform the culture where power overathletes is not prioritized
(18:58):
and instead athletesand their wellbeing are being centered.
So organizationshave to commit to creating an environment
where the entire eco-systemcenters athletes
and is committed to being trauma informed,so this means not just those individuals
working at a safe sport entity,for example, like we talked about earlier,
(19:19):
but everybody from the top downat each sports organization. We need to
make sure that they’re committedto creating a trauma informed environment
where fear of disclosing abuse,for fear of punishment
either by survivors or whistleblowersisn’t common place anymore as it is now.
And if this doesn’t happen, athletes won’tfeel safe to share,
(19:41):
and promoting safety and healingand building trust is a key element
to working with athlete survivorsof sexual abuse in sport.
We have read about the abuse of athletes
in particular in women's gymnastics.
Do you think that was justthe tip of the iceberg,
and do you think the issue has beenunder-reported and underestimated?
(20:03):
Yes, I believe thatwhat the public saw in gymnastics
was only one highly visible caseand it is not an isolated incident.
Abuse in sportsis consistently underreported.
And like I mentionedearlier, the reality is that
13 % of athletes worldwide
have reported experiencing sexual abusein a sporting context.
(20:26):
And athletes faceunique barriers to reporting.
There's power dynamics where coachesor other people of influence in sport
control things like their scholarships,their playing time, and future
career opportunities.
Then there's the factthat so many young people,
their entire identityis tied in being an athlete
and the sport itself, so speaking upfeels like they're risking everything,
(20:51):
including the sport that they loveand their future career opportunities.
And beyond that, the sports culture itselfoften works
against the disclosure and reporting.
There's a tough it out mentalitywhere mistreatment gets normalized
or loyalty to a coach or team keeps kidsquiet to protect the coach or the team.
(21:11):
And athletes are taught
to sacrifice their body for their sportand consistently push through pain.
So even if an athlete does wantto come forward, the reporting systems
and the culture in placeare keeping them from that.
And specifically with reporting systems,they're often confusing
or controlled by the organizationsthat failed to protect those athletes
(21:32):
in the first place.
So to answer your question,yeah, gymnastics was one
just highly visible example,but it's far from the only one.
Abuse in sports,we believe, has been deeply
underestimatedand without big systemic change,
it will stay under-reported,and survivors will remain unsupported.
So one of the incredible projectsthat we're working on at the Army
(21:56):
of Survivors is we're working to geta better understanding of the prevalence
within the United States.
And our organization has a study in theworks with UW Madison on the prevalence
of sexual violence in sportat elite levels in the United States.
So we're very excited to dive deeperinto this specific question.
Have you advocated or would
(22:16):
considerkind of a national reporting system,
run by maybe a government organizationthat would be separate and distinct
from the for a sports federationsand governing bodies?
We haven't advocatedfor that specifically,
but we have been advocating foris a transformation
(22:36):
and reformation of the current sporting
and reporting system.
Okay, we are speaking
with Julie AnneRivers-Cochran, Executive Director,
and Grace French,the President of the Army of Survivors.
So do you think that
in the last couple of yearsthe reporting and sanctioning
(22:58):
of sexual abuse has improvedor has been more aggressive?
And if not, what else has to be done?
Thank you, I think this is an incrediblyimportant question to address.
But before I do, I wanted to note that
to truly prevent abuse in sports,
(23:19):
we believe that national governing bodies,international federations,
university athletics, grassroots,and professional sports teams,
they all need to first admitthat abuse is happening in their sport,
no matter if athletes are coming forwardto report and disclose or not.
If they're not, and we tell thisto lots of sports governing bodies
(23:40):
if we have the opportunityto speak with them.
If they're not, it's likelybecause there's already a culture of fear
within the sporting institution,preventing athletes and whistleblowers
from sharing.
Fear of not being believed,lots of the other situations
that Grace talked about before.
Fear of punishment, like being cutfrom the team or a competition.
(24:01):
Fear of the stigma of abuse.
That list really goes on and on.All to say that there is a systemic
failure of sports institutionsto prevent abuse from happening.
So in regardsto your question though, Mark,
TAoS’s Founders case in the subsequent
sentencingand imprisonment of the perpetrator
(24:22):
revealed that those that cause harmand abuse of athletes do not do so
without the support of systemsthat also conceal the abuse.
So we refer to that conceptas institutional betrayal.
In the US, in the result, of our foundersexperienced the US Center for Safe Sport,
we know was legislativelycreated in concert with the Protecting
(24:46):
Young Victims from Sexual Abuseand Safe Sport Authorization Act of 2017.
And this was done to addressabuse and misconduct
within the Olympicand Paralympic movement.
The center itself,if you're not familiar with it, consists
of three departments that work togetherto achieve their mission.
And those departments are responseand resolution,
(25:07):
organizational development,and compliance education and outreach.
So not just investigating the reportsthat come to them.
And the amount of reportsthat they receive has increased
dramatically year after yearwith limited staff and limited funding.
So to
really answeryour question, reporting has improved
(25:28):
in that a system was createdwhere reports are taken
and some athletes have found justicethrough that process.
However, in 2022, we began to hearfrom athletes survivors of sexual abuse
who have been retraumatizedand experienced retraumatizing
investigative practices with the center.
(25:50):
So in order to do our due diligenceat the MRA survivors, we conducted
a series of interviews with a diversegroup of athletes across several different
sports, different genders, ages,levels of competition, that sort of thing,
regarding their experiences with reportingsexual assault with the center.
And through these discussionswith athletes, survivors, and witnesses
(26:11):
of sexual abuse in sports, regardinghow their cases were handled explicitly,
it became clear that more reformsand guidance are needed
to ensure accountability of individualsand institutions, also best practices
in trauma-informed training and support,and more transparency within the center.
(26:33):
So as a result of several brave
survivors and whistleblowerssharing their stories with us,
we created several recommendationson how governing bodies, organizations
conducting independent investigationslike US Center for Safe Sport,
how they can better improve safety,promote wellness,
and prevent sexual violenceand harassment in the future.
(26:55):
We also worked closely with lawmakersabout our findings
through our listening sessions,
which basically culminatedin the bipartisan introduction
of the Safer Sports for AthletesAct in Congress last December.
This legislation addresses systemicfailures and safeguarding, enhances
investigative processes at the US Centerfor Safe Sport, provides survivor support,
(27:18):
and it
also allocatesfunding for abuse prevention.
That Bill took us overtwo years of coalition building
and we're really hoping to seethat it will be introduced again
now that we have a new administrationin a bipartisan manner
during this next session coming up.
I will also note that TAoShas been working closely with the center
(27:41):
through training and technical assistanceto help their policies
and practices become more athlete-centeredand trauma-informed.
And as a result, thus far,they really have,
I wouldn't saynecessarily as a result of that,
but just coming to us and asking forour support was really a display
of institutional courage, which has beena shift that we've been able to see.
(28:01):
And throughout our engagement together,we've seen that as well.
But the reality is actual systems
change takes long term efforts
and the transformationat all levels of the center's ecosystem.
So we're gonna continue to do our bestto amplify survivor voice and press on
for more trauma-informed system responsewithin the center.
(28:23):
And the headlines have spoken
and focused
recently on girls and young women's abuse.
But do you think that the abuse of boysand young
men need to be addressedin greater detail?
And does the army of survivorsalso focus on male athletes
who’ve been sexually abusedor coaching abuse generally?
(28:46):
Absolutely,and I'm so glad you brought this up.
The Army of Survivors,we do not focus on one gender,
one race, one sport,or even one level of sport.
What we do know is abuse in sports has thepotential to impact everyone.
We have
had board members who identify as menwho are sexually abused in
sports, and currently, San Francisco 49ersSuper Bowl defensive star Dwight
(29:11):
Hicks serves on our board.And Dwight is a survivor of sexual abuse
by a doctorthat worked at the University of Michigan
while he was a studentplaying football for U of M.
I don't know if you're also awareor your listeners have already seen
the new Netflix documentary, SurvivingOhio State, which shares
the story of hundreds of male students,many of them hockey players and wrestlers.
(29:36):
Grace talked about prevalence.Forall genders
regarding 13%, having experiencedsexual assault in sport as a child.
Prevalence research also indicatesthat at least one in six men
have experienced sexual assault or abuse,whether in childhood or as adults.
(29:57):
Of note, one in three women
have experienced physicaland sexual assault in their lifetime.
And we also know, as Grace pointed outearlier, that sexual abuse
is extremely under-reported.
There are many barriersthat prevent survivors from disclosing.
And we also know that maleswho have experienced sexual assault
are less likely to disclose than females.
(30:20):
The question is, why is this, of course?
And many factorsdo contribute to the myth that boys
and men do not experience sexual abusein sports.
Socialization is definitely one factor.
And men we know are taught at a young ageto not identify as victims.
They're told to suppress emotions,
avoid vulnerabilityand never even ask for help.
(30:43):
Then you lay that extra layerof socialization that sports contributes.
And we know that sports is foundationalto many childhoods
when we're being socialized.
Especially in elite levels, successat the highest
degree is tied to dedication during youth.
And this places the sports worldin a critical position, we believe,
(31:04):
as both a socializing mechanism
and a potential site for abuse.
So layering this context and powerwith many of the traditional coaching
mantras of no pain,no gain, push through pain,
and winning at all costs,and there's an undeniable setup
for vulnerability and exploitationof all genders and identities.
(31:29):
And we're continuing our conversationwith Julie Anne Rivers
Cochran and GraceFrench of the Army of Survivors.
So, what are the future plansfor the Army of Survivors?
Gosh, our future plansinclude our continuing
to make significant progressadvocating for Athlete Survivor
Center policies and practicesinternationally on a global stage.
(31:54):
In terms of our advocacy, for example,I was recently appointed vice chair
of the independent panel for the FIFAFoundation’s Safe Football Support Unit,
which is a brand new entity.And that unit is led by an independent
panel supported by special advisorsand a survivors advisory group.
In the role of vice chair,I'll be consistently bringing a trauma
(32:16):
informed athlete survivorcentered point of view to the panel's work
as the unit is being establishedand TAoS as a whole.
Our team will be working with thatsurvivors advisory group as it is
created to ensurethat their voice is paramount
to the success of this entityand how it's put together,
(32:37):
which it's really excitingto even just talk about that,
even though
it's not even in the worksother than just getting started,
because it's the first timewe're seeing a safe
sport entity truly embed survivor voice
at the very beginning of the developmentof its policies and practices.
(32:57):
So that's one thingthat we'll be working on in the future.
Education-wise, we currently receive
funding to adapt Compassionate Coach.
We have a waiting list of coachesthat are interested
in the course from countriesall over the world.
So we'll be adapting itto meet the linguistic and culturally
specific needs of coaches and athletesfrom communities outside of the U.S.
(33:22):
As I mentioned before,we develop programming based on listening
to athlete survivors and one programwe are seeking funding for
is based on athletessharing that they want a forum to connect
with one another in a more formal way.
We're calling
it the Athlete SurvivorPeer Support Network
and that will be a peer-ledtrauma-informed program
(33:45):
that once fully funded will fostera global compassionate community
united to offer encouragementpromote healing,
reduce isolation and stigma, and also
provide practical support.
That’s some of what we see in the future.
And one question just came up in my mind,which we haven't talked about,
(34:05):
disabled athletes and abuse.
Have you been doing any work in that area?
Well,we were talking about prevalence before.
We know that athletes with a disabilityare at a higher risk
of being abused,anyone with a disability period.
So although we have not had the honorand privilege to be working directly
(34:29):
with some of thevery inspiring organizations
that do focus on paraathletes and para Olympians,
all of our work is based on looking at allindividuals of sport
and how they are through their identities,
how they experience sport,
how they have higher riskof being abused in sport,
(34:53):
and how we can tailor
all of our programming to do our bestto meet the needs of all athletes.
And this last questionis a little bit of a change of pace
and it will be addressed to Grace.
For those of you who do not know,my interest does not only cover sports,
but also covers the performing artsas I studied music
(35:14):
at an earlier stage in my life.
With thisin mind, Grace, the question for you,
as somebody who studied dance, the issue
of sexual abusebased on power relationship in that art
has been discussedas part of the Me Too movement.
Could you discuss what you thinkis problematic in the dance world
and what can and should be done?
(35:37):
Mark, I love this question.
As somebody who's still in the dance worldas a coach,
I think there are so many issuesthat I see on the daily
that really need to be addressedwhen it comes to this issue.
I think dance is really uniquebecause it does sit
at the intersection of both sport and art.
So like other athletes, dancersspend long hours training,
(35:58):
rehearsing and performing in our bodiesor our instruments.
From a young age,we're taught to sacrifice comfort, rest,
and even safety in the service of the artand the performance.
And that includes the sacrificeof our bodies.
And it creates a culture where
we're used to pushing through painand ignoring boundaries.
(36:20):
And that can feel extremely normal.
Another challengespecifically within dance
is that we do not have a clearnational governing body,
at least in the USand in the way that many other sports do.
So on one hand, that allowsfor a lot more creativity and freedom and
which is a beautiful part of the art form.
(36:41):
But it also means there isn't
a consistent system for reporting abuseor reporting concerns within dance.
So if a dancer experiences harm,it is often dependent
on the individual studio, the company,or even the school to decide what happens
next in terms of repercussionsfor the individual who has been reported.
(37:05):
And too oftenthere are no formal policies in place
in those individual places.
So dancersdon't really know where to turn.
But additionally,
there are also dynamicsthat come from the artistic side of dance.
So things like subjectivescoring at competitions
or casting for roles in productions.
(37:27):
So favoritism and politicsplay a huge role in whether someone
advances or gets additional opportunity,which gives teachers,
directors, and choreographersa lot more power and incredible influence
over the dancer’sindividual experience within the sport.
And because dance is then
so tied to identity,and many of us grew up saying,
(37:51):
introducing ourselvesfirst as I'm a dancer,
the idea of losing accessto that training,
those opportunities, those roles,or even the career,
if we have that aspiration, feels likelosing a big part of who you are.
So it makes the stakes of reportingeven higher.
so dance can be an incredibly powerful
(38:12):
and empowering art form, butthere's a lack of consistent protections
and a culture of pushing through pain,which creates these huge vulnerabilities.
So I think what can and should be donewithin the dance world is,
building clearer safetypathways in school studios and companies
while still honoring the artistryand individuality of the dance world
(38:33):
and understanding the nuancesthat come with dance
and how reporting and creating safe spaces
need to be adjusted for the dance worldbecause of those nuances.
I think
starting out a simple step is for peopleto do background checks on teachers
who are coming through to understanddeeply
(38:55):
who has already
been reported as abusive.
There have been multiple articlesalready out of choreographers and teachers
who have been abusiveto dancers in the past.
And that was,if I think about three years ago, I'd say,
and I'm already seeingthose choreographers and teachers
(39:17):
getting rehired at studiosand back in the dance world.
And so I think there's a needfor background checks
for deep research on who you're bringinginto your studio with your students
and then for clearerreporting systems as well.
Fascinating and we probably could havea whole broadcast just on that topic.
(39:37):
But unfortunately,
we've come to the end of our timeon behalf of Fordham University,
the Gabelli School of Businessand the Sports Business Initiative.
I want to extend mythanks to Julie Ann Rivers-Cochran and
Grace French from the Army of Survivors.
You both gave important insightsabout a troubling but important
(39:59):
and I hope that the continued work forthe organization will end this scourge.
For more information,check out the organization's website
The Army of Survivors, it's all one word,
dot org, armyofsurvivors.org.
I want to acknowledge my producerVictoria Ilano,
for her great workin preparing and editing this episode.
(40:22):
And finally, many thanks to all of youfor listening for the Sports Business
Podcast at Fordham’s Gabelli Schoolof Business, I’m Mark Conrad or Prof.
C, have a great day.
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