This episode of the Sports Business Podcast with Prof. C takes a break from controversial issues and focuses on “Pop-A-Shot” an arcade basketball game played by families and friends. Recently, a national competition for the champion Pop-A-Shot player took place, and one of the finalists was my colleague Prof. Luke Kachersky, who teaches marketing at the Gabelli School of Business.
I invited Luke and Nick Gonzalez, Vice President of Marketing for Pop-A-Shot to join me for a lively session about marketing and participating in this competition on national television. Please tune in!
Host: Mark Conrad Producer: Victoria Ilano Additional Production: Jeffrey Haynes Artwork: Pamela V. White Marketing: Michelle Miller Music: ”MarcusWay/Energetic Pop Punk/Tribe of Noise”
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Hello and welcome to the Sports
Business Podcast with Pro C,
the podcast that exploresthe world of professional,
collegiate, amateur, and Olympic sports.
I’m Mark Conrad, or Prof.
C from Fordham University’s Gabelli Schoolof Business, where I serve as Professor
(00:29):
of Law and Ethicsand the Director of the Sports
Business Initiative.
Today's podcast discusses
the recreational homearcade game called Pop-A-Shot,
and the quest of one of my colleaguesto be
the national Pop-A-Shot Champion.
Recently, that competition took place
(00:52):
and was broadcast on ESPN8,
a channel for seldom seen unique sports.
One of the finalists was my colleagueand I've known for many, many years,
but not in the capacity of an elitePop-A-Shot player.
After watching him compete,I thought it would be great
(01:12):
to devote this podcast to the productand the competition.
So I invited my colleague and an executiveof the Pop-A-Shot manufacturer
to join me for what I hope is a livelyand informative hour.
Let me introduce our two guests,
Professor Luke Kachersky
(01:32):
of the Gabelli School of Businessand Nick Gonzalez of Pop-A-Shot.
Nick is a Vice President of Marketing
for Pop-A-Shot since 2023.
Before that, he was the ChiefMarketing Officer for Spike Ball.
In addition,he served as Global Marketing Director
at Wilson Sports,and in his position at Pop-A-Shot,
(01:56):
Nick is helping revitalizethis arcade basketball brand.
Nick received his bachelor'sdegree in business administration
from the University of Michigan.
Luke Kachersky is Associate Professor
of Marketing at FordhamUniversity's Gabelli School of Business.
His research focuses on consumer behavior,
(02:18):
and he has published in many academicand professional journals.
He earned undergraduateand master's degrees at Saint John's
University, and his PhD at Baruch College
of the City University of New York.
Luke is an elite level Pop-A-Shot player,
and has played Pop-A-Shotwith his children.
(02:39):
So welcome, gentlemen.
It's a pleasure to have you on the SportsBusiness Podcast.
Let's start with some questions.
For Nick (02:48):
for those of you who don't know, can you describe what Pop-A-Shot is
and the short history of the gameand the company?
Sure.
So Pop-A-Shotis an arcade basketball game.
And what that means, in layman's termsis, you know,
if you've been to a Dave and Bustersor a Chuck E.
Cheese and you see that basketballhoop game, probably in a metal cage.
(03:11):
I start with a couple basketballsin front of you.
You shoot, try to score as many as youcan, and they roll back to you on a ramp.
That's an arcade basketball game.
Pop-A-Shot is the original brand.
It was created in 1981
by a college basketballcoach named Ken Cochran.
And the story goes that,
he was inthe hospital recuperating from a surgery.
(03:34):
He was kind of bored.
He had a mini basketball next to him,
and he was just trying to think of, waysto kind of pass the time.
And from that kind of circumstancecame up with the game of Pop-A-Shot.
So he ran the company for a numberof years, and it was primarily
a game that you could play at arcadesor at bars.
They just kind of [...] them.
(03:55):
And then within the last 8 or 9 years,the company’s had to reposition to now
be focusing on the at-home market.
And what is the target audience?
The target audience at a general level.
It's basketball enthusiasts.
It's peoplewho are interested in basketball.
If we drill that downkind of one level deeper,
(04:15):
we have a big consumer segment.
That's families, right?
Peoplereally love playing with their kids.
People really like kind of seeing who canset the high score in the household.
And then kind of along those lines,you know,
we also have some some purchaserswithout kids.
And if I'm going to generalize,that's people
who are building out the game roomwho are maybe remodeling their basement,
(04:38):
you know, and kind of building the,the basement of their dreams.
And that's part of revitalizing the brand,as you say, in your biography.
Which part, Mark?
The part about basically tryingto expand to bars and try to deal with
maybe more recreational useor even starting this competition.
So that's, you know, maybe whatother ideas you have, or is that really
(05:02):
the core ideas and the coreaudience you’re still looking for?
Yeah.
So like I said,we still have a lot of opportunity to grow
with kind of our existing consumer target,if you will.
But you know,the brand does have a rich kind of...in
the brand’s DNAis this kind of an at-home game.
This game you can go and kind of,you know, try to set
(05:24):
the high scoreat the neighborhood bar or restaurant.
So that is a market that we are pursuingcoming into 2025.
Right.Trying to track that out-of-home market.
And as we're thinking about,
you know, ways to make our offering,you know, really interesting
in that market along comesthis idea of competitions.
Which, again, is somethingthat actually is also in the brand's DNA.
(05:46):
You know, if you look backover the history books, you see mentions
of the 1990 Pop-A-Shot WorldChampionship, which was held, I think, in,
in a Marriott near the O'Hare airport.
Right.
But, these competitions have beenthe thing that we're trying to revitalize.
And, you know, as Professor
Kachersky’s experiencedsome of that's at a national level, right?
(06:06):
How can we get on ESPN?
How can we show, you know,a national audience that Pop-A-Shot
is a competitive activitybut also a fun activity.
But we're also really optimisticthat it's going to also,
have some potential,from a local market perspective.
You know, maybe the bar that you go toon Thursday night,
starts hosting a Pop-A-Shot league.
(06:28):
You know, we've seen that happen withsports like cornhole, trivia, card games.
And we're just really optimisticand curious
to see what happens if we start, you know,what happens if we start pursuing that,
with Pop-A-Shot.
Did Covidhave any role in some of your plans,
or how did Covid affectparticipation and sales of Pop-A-Shot?
(06:49):
Yeah, I think,
across the industry, I think Covid created
a lot of winners and a lot of losers.
And Pop-A-Shot was definitelyin the winner's camp, right?
We saw a lot more interest, and saleson the game during that time period.
As you know,
we think people were just lookingfor new things to do, active things to do,
(07:10):
and ways to spend time with each other,kind of in that private, safe environment.
If I can chime in from that,on that from the consumer perspective.
I turned 40 right at the beginning ofthe pandemic, and my wife had it planned
anyway to get me my Pop-A-Shotfor my birthday, for my 40th.
And, it was just like during that
(07:31):
time, it was so great to have because,you know, working from home.
And I was like, you know,
like I'd complete a task and then go shoota couple of rounds and like,
it was just like a refresher and a resetbefore going on to the next activity.
And, yeah,it was definitely, a winner for me
as far as, coming in during the pandemic.
And then grading papersto be grading papers,
(07:53):
then take a break and do some Pop-A-Shot.
Yeah, exactly.
I guess, like, put me in a better mood.
And then I was a little more lenienton the grading. Right.
You know
how many models of Pop-A-Shot do you sell?
We sell about - and pleasedon't quote me on the numbers - but about,
6 or 7 different primary game models.
(08:13):
And that's, you know, some are,dual hoop games where you compete
against somebody right next to you.Some are single hoop games.
And then in addition to that,just last year we we launched into kind
of a new segment, which is a mini hoopor an over the door hoop.
And so I just called the Super Slam,and that is a new kind of a newer product
that we're continuingto try to develop the market on
in addition to as we as we talked about,you know, next year,
(08:36):
we're planning to launch,kind of an out-of-home game
tailored for, you know, the bar,the restaurant, the arcade.
And now we're going to go to Luke.
So you got Pop-A-Shot on your 40thbirthday?
[Luke (08:50):
Yeah.] The time you took to it, did you play it as a kid?
I mean, did you know it existed?
I mean, I knew arcade basketball existed.
Yeah, I'm from as long as I can remember,and was always something that
interested me.
And so I always, always played it.
And there was one particular time I,I took my nephew to the movies one time,
(09:12):
we were really early for the movie,and we had some time to kill.
And, there was it there was an arcadebasketball in the lobby
of the theater, and we almost didn'twant to go into the movie
because we were just like,where's this going to go in high score?
And it was just it wasit was addictive and actually like
so from that point forward,I just all in on arcade basketball.
I don't know that I was personally awareof the Pop-A-Shot brand
(09:36):
until like within a yearbefore the pandemic,
when my neighbor and friendhad one in his garage.
And, I mean, it blew my mind.
I was like, what?
You can get this thing at home.
And so then that put the...setthe gears in motion
for my wifeto get that for me for the 40th.
(09:57):
And how did you get
interested in entering the competition?
I think Pop-A-Shot did a really good job
at designing the flowfor the submission process, because,
Yeah, I'm on the email list,and so I get the call for submissions,
and it was a pretty easyask for the initial submission.
It was just, report your high score,you know, just self-report high score.
And, I think the other form field was: Anything else (10:21):
undefined
we should know at this point?
So I thought, okay, I got it.
Let me just try to be a little bit
interesting here, you know,so I said that, you know,
I'm not a social influencer,but I'm a professor of marketing.
And this would make a great storyfor my classes.
And, yeah, I don't,I don't know, maybe Nick and speak to what
you might have seen in that or but thenI got the, the ask to create a video and,
(10:47):
and went from there
was I think if the initial askwas to make a video,
I don't know that I would have done it,but it was
it was pretty easy to just like,yeah, let's let's see what happens.
And Nick, how many, responses did you get?
Interested responsesdid you get to the initial email?
Sure.
To the initial email, it was about 200and just north of 250 responses.
(11:10):
And like Luke said, we you know, we...thiswas a brand new thing for us, right?
We didn't know if we were gonna get 2000or 2.
So for that first stage,we did try to make it as kind of low
touch as possible just to see, you know,kind of how many fish we could get.
And then you get the 250 responses,
how many broke through the next roundthat you either,
(11:34):
auditioned, interviewed and the like?
Sure.
We targeted...so it was it was 50.
I remember in the criteria kind ofthe first criteria was their high score.
It had to be at least150 points for us, for you
even to get into that consideration set,because we were looking obviously
(11:56):
for stronger players.
For that second round,you know, whereas the first round
we tried to make as low touch as possiblefor the consumer, for the second round
we tried to put a little bitmore onus on them.
And so that's where we askedfor some video submissions.
We asked for them to submit video of themplaying, and it was just so we could
as a double check on their high score.
Right.
And then we also asked for a videothat they showed their personality
(12:19):
a little bit.
And you know, like I said,the score was really the
the main criteriathat we were evaluating for.
But, in addition, we're looking for peoplelike Luke said, like
who are Interesting.
Who maybe had some stories,who maybe would be people
that we would be interestedin rooting for as consumers.
And secondarily,you know, we knew that this ESPN broadcast
(12:44):
was going to bring some eyeballsand some awareness and some buzz for us.
But we were also optimisticthat some of our consumers could help
kind of build that buzz. Right?
And maybe that meansthey have a huge social following.
Maybe it means it doesn't.
The key thing for us waswe were just thinking through
if we ask these consumersto help us bring some content,
(13:04):
to be interviewed,to kind of help us build the story,
do they seem like people who are goingto be willing and excited to do that?
And again, that wasn't the main criteria,but that was that was a nice
you know, that was an importantone for us to evaluate as well.
Were you, Luke,were you surprised when you were selected?
Yes and no.
(13:24):
I mean, I was I was elated
for surewhen I got the final email that I was in,
the decibel level in my housewas pretty loud with myself,
my kids, my wife, like,everybody was just just super excited.
I, you know, after I got the,
the hook for itto, you know, submit a video and, yeah,
(13:46):
I'm, like, workshopping thingswith my daughters and my wife
and trying to come up with different ideasand concepts and, talked about.
And when we came up with this,Professor Pop-A-Shot idea,
I just
it felt like it came to melike I had a really good feeling about it.
And then, like, when it was done,like anybody I showed it to was like,
oh, they have to pick you. And I was like.
(14:06):
So I was hopeful.
I was cautiously hopeful the whole time.
And then I got to,I got to interview with,
Pop-A-Shot peoplebefore the last round, and,
I thought that conversation went great.
And so I had a good feeling.
So it was I was surprised, butI was also like, I was hopeful, you know?
(14:30):
And so let's break it down.
So there were 50 peoplethat, Nick, you were interested in.
And did you interview all50 or did you have a further,
you know, culling of the
numbers for interviewees and then finallyfor the top, I don't know,
was it eight people that competedor ten people that competed on television?
(14:50):
Yeah.
So so Round 2 was basically the requestfor the video submission,
which culled it down to approximately20 people got interviewed.
Of those 20, we ultimately selected
seven to competein the national championship.
And then one, actually qualifiedfrom an in-person
(15:11):
eventthat we also kind of executed as a test.
So in Chicago,at a bar named Barstool River
North, we held a qualifying tournamentthat anybody could come to.
It was a it was a weeknight in July.
And from that, you know,
we selected kind of thethe best contestant based on scores,
(15:31):
to join the seven candidates who qualifiedfrom the online submission process.
We're here with
Nick Gonzalez, Vice President of Marketing
for Pop-A-Shot, and Luke Kachersky,Associate Professor of Marketing
at Fordham's Gabelli School of Business.
So ultimately,
(15:52):
we get this, you get the call,
you come on down, and,
before you did, how much?
How many weeks did you have
before appearing at the championship?
How many weeks to practice,let's say? Yeah.
I mean, well, hey, look, I've beenpracticing my whole life, Mark, you know?
(16:13):
But from the time that the notificationcame through
that I was in, until the tournament,it was about four weeks.
How many hours a daydid you practice during that time?
Oh, I definitely played more than usual.
It definitely went from less of just,like, a strictly casual thing to a, like,
all right, kind ofmake sure I get some time into that.
(16:34):
But, I mean, it varied.
I tried to make sure to get some play timein every day just to keep up the
the rhythm and the consistency.
But, you know, some days that meant20 minutes, other days, you know,
maybe I could play for an hour or so.
And then you come on
down and you know, you are on television.
[Luke Kachersky (16:52):
Yeah.] What effect does that have in terms of your focus,
your concentration, your ability,as opposed to your earlier practices?
Do you think that the televisionaspect added to the intrigue,
added to the pressure, added to the fun?
Definitely added to the fun.
(17:14):
It did not,
it had absolutely no effect on mecome game time.
And I feel like the rest of thecompetitors would probably say this too.
Nick, you probably know this fromfrom playing as well.
Like when you're when you're playing,the only thing that exists in the world
is the balls and that hoop, and it's justyou're just locked in and focused.
So, you know, while playing it just it
(17:38):
didn't feel any differentthan than playing any other time.
But was the equipment different?
Was the,
interaction with the other contestants
different than you expected?
It was.
So the interaction with the,the other contestants was,
extremely pleasant.
I mean, everybody was just so niceand, like, just good, positive vibes.
(18:03):
You know, it wasn't, you know,a competition where somebody, like,
trying to trip you when you're walking upto the, to the basket.
So everybody was was super niceand everything.
Equipment wise, it was a new machine.
I think there was a little bitof a learning curve too,
at least for me and maybe for everybodyexcept for Josh, I don't know.
(18:24):
But, so was it was it a new machine,it was a little bit of a learning curve
on that.
And just for the record,Josh was the winner.
Yes.] Okay.
And did you have time to practice
in the facility
before the competition,and if so, how much time?
Yeah, we had,
probably a total of almost two hoursto, to practice.
(18:46):
And so there, you know,
there were the two hoopsset up that you saw on the broadcast.
And so between the eight of us,we just kept rotating,
rotating and taking turns, practicing.
Did you feel the pressure when you started
competing on televisionfor the championship?
No. I can be 100% like I,
(19:07):
I didn't feel the [...]Nothing about, about TV.
It was just for me trying to getthe rhythm of of that machine.
Like every arcadebasketball has its own its own
rhythm,its own tempo, its own peculiarities.
And, so for me, it was just the processof, of trying to figure out that one.
So, backto Nick, in terms of the broadcast,
(19:30):
what kind of broadcast agreementdid you create with ESPN8?
Yeah.
So, you know, ESPN8 has,
it's come a long wayin the last couple of years,
and they're now at a point where they have
a pretty standard,template that, that different
sports, different brands can kind ofjust kind of easily fall into.
(19:52):
And that's what happened with Pop-A-Shotin this case.
So Ocho Day is always the first Fridayin August.
ESPN sets up two production teams
on location, and this yearit was in Rock Hill, South Carolina.
One production team coversthe outdoor events.
One production team coversthe indoor events.
If you want to participate,you pay $15,000
(20:15):
for ESPN to essentially produce the show.
You as a brand have to pay the fee.
You have to provide the talent,which in our case, were the competitors,
as well as the color commentary.
Color commentator.
ESPN provides the play-by-play guy.
And so that's what we did.
(20:36):
The otherparts of the deal are Pop-A-Shot,
in exchange for that fee, is entitledto four minutes of commercial time during
the broadcast, ESPN gets the remainder,and once the broadcast has aired,
Pop-A-Shot has the rightto kind of redistribute,
edit, post, pretty much do whatever
we want with it outside of aired on TV.
(20:58):
So basically it's an ad splitarrangement, correct?
You just get some...
Ad split arrangementwith a production fee.
Okay.
So in other words,there was a split of the ads,
but you paid the production fee,but you have the rights to distribute
it in any mediumexcept for broadcaster cable television.
That's right.
And usually, in years past I've seenESPN issue kind of like a lockout period.
(21:22):
Like you have to wait 90 daysor six months before you can redistribute.
And it looks like that's changed.
Because this year we just had to waituntil the day after the broadcast
for those rights to kind of be active.
Would you do something like this againnext year?
I would definitely do somethinglike this again next year.
I actually have a little bit of experiencedoing kind of Ocho and ESPN broadcasts
(21:45):
from my spike ball days as well, and eachone is a little bit different, but
my kind of mentality is that
it can be well worth the investment
if you're thinking about how to create
the surround sound around the broadcast,how you are able to think about,
you know, getting more from the contentand from the Championship
(22:06):
than just that 60 minute broadcast.
Whether it's social media posts,whether it's teasers, you know,
that sort of thing.
Yeah.
Speaking of social media, did you, postclips of highlights on Instagram
and other social media or even YouTube?
We did.
Yeah, we posted clips, highlightsin the full broadcast
(22:26):
across various social channelskind of after it aired.
And we also actually got a lot of content
from the leadup to the championship as well,
whether it was giving consumersthe opportunity to meet a little,
to learn a little bitmore about the competitors,
creating some contentfrom the qualifying event.
Would think of
(22:47):
doing local competitions, given,
the interest in Pop-A-Shotand given the fact that you had something
in Chicago to get, possibly a contestantor two from the kind of live local events?
So would you continue doing thator expanding that to other markets?
Yeah,we're thinking about local competitions
(23:07):
in two ways and hopefully goingto get started in 2025.
So one is local markets
as kind of our roadto the national championship.
So that might be, you know,five qualifiers, one in each region.
The winner from each qualifiers advancesto the national championship.
And you can see how that can be a,
you know, something that we kind of talkabout in market nationally.
(23:31):
And then at the same time, you know,
we are really interestedin trying to facilitate
bar owners,
particularly, and hosting their ownPop-A-Shot
leagues, their ownPop-A-Shot competitions, using,
you know, our soon to come to market,kind of out-of-home game.
So I think two very interesting paths.
(23:53):
We're planning to test a lot of things.
We're hopeful that both will work out andthat's that's what we're thinking about.
What about colleges and universitiesas a market?
Colleges and universities,I think, is another interesting market.
I think we've had some success to date,selling to
some of the facilities around campus,like the intramural sports
(24:13):
building, places where students mightthey might want students
to kind of hang out,sit down in the lobby.
We have more challenges if we try to thinkabout the college student
as the end consumer or the end purchaser,you just think about disposable income.
You think aboutwhere are they going to put the game.
You know that
that's all well, in not in the dorm roomor maybe in a home that you're renting.
Might not want to make a $300 investmentto put it in there.
(24:35):
But always opportunities.
And Nick, I mean, theythey find space for beer pong, right?
[Nick Gonzalez (24:40):
It's true.]
It's true.
Maybe we need to give it a second look.
Could be the facultyadvisor for our team, then,
if there is a Pop-A-Shot team at all.
Right.
We need advisors so I could see that.
But Luke, would you try to...wouldyou think of competing in future events?
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, you know,I hearing Nick talk about me. Yeah.
(25:02):
Gearing up for, maybe another competition,like, “All right, what do I got to do?
How do I how do I get in there?”
So we see you again on television.
We we may see you in the New Yorkmetropolitan area,
for various competitions.
And you become,you know, obviously a fan of the product.
Enjoy the product.
And, do you ever talk,you know, Nick, with the contestants,
(25:23):
like how to make changes in the product,think about other uses of the product
because you had, you know,a number of elite contestants at location.
So did you, try to, you know,
pick their brains aboutmaybe some ideas for the future?
We did.
And it's actually a regular partof kind of our, this marketing practice
(25:45):
is to regularly interviewconsumers who have purchased.
And those can go, you know,and those can now, those are fairly open
ended conversations sometimesget into specific product recommendations.
You know, people are looking for waysto make it look nicer
or they want to cover up the steelbars, right? They want to be longer.
They want wanted to be shorter.
(26:06):
But also can even just cover
kind of getting at the root of whypeople purchase, you know, how
they're looking for somethingto do with their, their kids
that they enjoyjust as much as the kids do.
And Pop-A-Shot is the answer.
So it's a regular part of our process.
It always gleanskind of interesting insights.
Across kinda the whole spectrum.
You know, Mark, if I can, if I could chimein, I mean, when, when,
(26:28):
I had my interview rightin that last round, to, to be selected,
one of the questionsI, I just was so heartened
to be askedwas, Nick asked me like, I, my,
my kids were in the room with mewhen, when we were having this interview.
“What other games do you spend time on?”You know, and, other than than Pop-A-Shot
(26:50):
and it just it just struck me as like,okay,
this is why this brand has already startedthis, this great turnaround
and is on a great trajectorybecause, like, they're
they listen to their customers and like,they're genuinely interested in,
like what's going on in their livesand where Pop-A-Shot fits.
And you know, that's that's
how you identify opportunitiesand build relationships. So
(27:11):
Yeah], [...] ball is such an international game now.
Have you thought about marketingthe product internationally?
We have, right?
And we think about places, you know, wherewhere basketball is popular
or getting more popular as maybe thefirst place that we would, we would start.
It just kind of big picturejust kind of comes down to priorities
(27:32):
and which things are we going to do first?
Have you thought about possibly
creating a similar kind of gamefor other kind of sports like,
you know, pop-a-goal for hockeyor pop-a-homerun, pop-a-touchdown?
Has anything come to your mind,along those lines for arcade games?
We have definitely looked at other sports,which has led to some pretty interesting
(27:56):
conversations aroundwhat makes a Pop-A-Shot, a Pop-A-Shot.
Does the ball have to roll back to you?
Does there have to bean electronic scoreboard?
Does there have to be an announcer?
Does there have to be any of those things?
So the short answer toyour question is yes, we have.
We don't have anything currently planned
(28:16):
to come to the market today,but we're working on it.
And it strikes me this is a quitea wholesome game and a family game.
And, you know, Luke has played the gameand played with your daughters or children
and do you think there's a formof happy innocence in that kind of family
activity, when so much todayis devoted to social media,
(28:40):
and they talk about some of the issuesregarding social media, the loneliness,
other potential issues, the,threats, the fears, etc..
So do you think this is almost lookingback to the future and a different time,
and that customers and familiesmay say, hey, this is really outdoor
time, this is indoor time,but not computer time.
(29:00):
So Luke, what do you think about that?
Oh, that's that's 100% true.
I mean, it's,
I and actually I think
and correct me if I'm wrong,but I'm pretty sure you messaged
a little bit on thatabout getting physical and being active.
So, yeah,I totally, totally agree with that.
(29:20):
And it's it's accessible.
I mean, I, I when I was getting ready
for the tournament,one of the things that I wanted to do
is like, just make sure I got to playagainst, different variety of people.
So, like, I live near a lake.
And so I hauled my Pop-A-Shot down toto one of the lake beaches,
and just whoever wasthere was playing like,
like a grandmotherand her grandson came up
and we were all playing togetherand then needed to go, like, you know, to,
(29:43):
like a, you know, 30ish year old guysthat were just hanging out.
They came and played and,just like everybody wants to get into it.
It's it's very accessible.
And, Nick, what do you think about that
idea like kind of an antisocial media component to Pop-A-Shot?
Yeah it resonates.
And you know we were talking earlier about
you know some of the customer interviewsthat we that we have.
(30:05):
And at the surface level
we commonly will have conversationsaround.
It gets my kids off of the couch.
It gets them away from their screens.Right?
One level deeper, we'll start to touch onhow it's something that
the whole family can enjoy, which insome households is kind of rare, right?
Mom likes it,dad likes it, the kids like it.
(30:28):
And then on the third level,it kind of the thing that that
usually isn't overtly
statedis, is accessibility, like Luke mentioned.
But a lot of timesthat accessibility comes in the form of,
“I can play for two minutes,I'm walking by with my kid.
It's like two minutes,but if we want to play for two hours”
[Luke Kachersky (30:48):
yeah], right?
So there's there's not a time constraint
like there can bewith a lot of family activities. Right?
If I'm sitting down and playing Monopoly,that's a, that's an hour easy.
Right?
And at the same time,
it doesn't have to be a planned activity.
We can be walking by and just shoot,right, versus family movie night.
What are we picking? Right?
(31:09):
What time does it start?I don't want to watch this.
I don't want to watch that.
So accessibility I think is one of the,core benefits of the product.
But but accessibilityin a couple different ways.
And Luke, you know, you teach marketingand we've been colleagues
for many, many years.
What do you think of your experienceas a case study for your classes?
(31:31):
My experienceas a case study for my classes.
I think it could I mean, in terms of,
again,you know, Pop-A-Shot is a is a brand
that's like on the, on the come up again.
And, you know, creating an event,building buzz,
kind of going grassroots like,like Nick had mentioned about,
(31:51):
you know, being cognizant of,what competitors they chose
that could maybe help in that processor at least now facilitate.
Yeah, totally.
This does make a great casefor, for, my class.
I got I got to write that one up.
Okay.
If you need any help from me,I'd be happy to,
to join you,because it's been fascinating.
And I do want to make one announcement,you know, for your students
(32:14):
or your friends, of anybodythat listens to the podcast.
This is an audio only podcast.
And of course, many of you are thinking,wow, what does this look like?
What what was it like to compete?
Well, we want to post video clipsof Luke's skills in this competition.
On the introductory page on our Podbeanpage and on our forum website.
(32:37):
So if you take a lookat the summary of the podcast,
you can click to those videos.
You know, to see your professoror you know, colleague,
friend, watch and competeat this national championship
and get a feel of whatit's like and to view it.
But unfortunately, we do have to close.
And on behalf of Fordham University,the Gabelli School of Business
(33:00):
and the Sports Business Initiative,thanks so much to Nick
Gonzalez of Pop-A-Shot and ProfessorLuke Kachersky of Fordham's Gabelli School
for an engaging,informative and downright fun discussion
of a very different typeof sports product,
and the experience of participatingin a national championship
(33:22):
by becoming an expert competitorin that product.
A shout out to my producer,Victoria Ilano for her
great work,and thanks to all of you for listening in.
For the Sports Business Podcastat Fordham's Gabelli
School of Business,I’m Mark Conrad or Prof.
C, have a great day.
Hello and welcome to the Sports
Business Podcast with Pro C,
the podcast that exploresthe world of professional,
collegiate, amateur, and Olympic sports.
I’m Mark Conrad, or Prof.
C from Fordham University’s Gabelli Schoolof Business, where I serve as Professor
(00:29):
of Law and Ethicsand the Director of the Sports
Business Initiative.
Today's podcast discusses
the recreational homearcade game called Pop-A-Shot,
and the quest of one of my colleaguesto be
the national Pop-A-Shot Champion.
Recently, that competition took place
(00:52):
and was broadcast on ESPN8,
a channel for seldom seen unique sports.
One of the finalists was my colleagueand I've known for many, many years,
but not in the capacity of an elitePop-A-Shot player.
After watching him compete,I thought it would be great
(01:12):
to devote this podcast to the productand the competition.
So I invited my colleague and an executiveof the Pop-A-Shot manufacturer
to join me for what I hope is a livelyand informative hour.
Let me introduce our two guests,
Professor Luke Kachersky
(01:32):
of the Gabelli School of Businessand Nick Gonzalez of Pop-A-Shot.
Nick is a Vice President of Marketing
for Pop-A-Shot since 2023.
Before that, he was the ChiefMarketing Officer for Spike Ball.
In addition,he served as Global Marketing Director
at Wilson Sports,and in his position at Pop-A-Shot,
(01:56):
Nick is helping revitalizethis arcade basketball brand.
Nick received his bachelor'sdegree in business administration
from the University of Michigan.
Luke Kachersky is Associate Professor
of Marketing at FordhamUniversity's Gabelli School of Business.
His research focuses on consumer behavior,
(02:18):
and he has published in many academicand professional journals.
He earned undergraduateand master's degrees at Saint John's
University, and his PhD at Baruch College
of the City University of New York.
Luke is an elite level Pop-A-Shot player,
and has played Pop-A-Shotwith his children.
(02:39):
So welcome, gentlemen.
It's a pleasure to have you on the SportsBusiness Podcast.
Let's start with some questions.
For Nick (02:48):
for those of you who don't know, can you describe what Pop-A-Shot is
and the short history of the gameand the company?
Sure.
So Pop-A-Shotis an arcade basketball game.
And what that means, in layman's termsis, you know,
if you've been to a Dave and Bustersor a Chuck E.
Cheese and you see that basketballhoop game, probably in a metal cage.
(03:11):
I start with a couple basketballsin front of you.
You shoot, try to score as many as youcan, and they roll back to you on a ramp.
That's an arcade basketball game.
Pop-A-Shot is the original brand.
It was created in 1981
by a college basketballcoach named Ken Cochran.
And the story goes that,
he was inthe hospital recuperating from a surgery.
(03:34):
He was kind of bored.
He had a mini basketball next to him,
and he was just trying to think of, waysto kind of pass the time.
And from that kind of circumstancecame up with the game of Pop-A-Shot.
So he ran the company for a numberof years, and it was primarily
a game that you could play at arcadesor at bars.
They just kind of [...] them.
(03:55):
And then within the last 8 or 9 years,the company’s had to reposition to now
be focusing on the at-home market.
And what is the target audience?
The target audience at a general level.
It's basketball enthusiasts.
It's peoplewho are interested in basketball.
If we drill that downkind of one level deeper,
(04:15):
we have a big consumer segment.
That's families, right?
Peoplereally love playing with their kids.
People really like kind of seeing who canset the high score in the household.
And then kind of along those lines,you know,
we also have some some purchaserswithout kids.
And if I'm going to generalize,that's people
who are building out the game roomwho are maybe remodeling their basement,
(04:38):
you know, and kind of building the,the basement of their dreams.
And that's part of revitalizing the brand,as you say, in your biography.
Which part, Mark?
The part about basically tryingto expand to bars and try to deal with
maybe more recreational useor even starting this competition.
So that's, you know, maybe whatother ideas you have, or is that really
(05:02):
the core ideas and the coreaudience you’re still looking for?
Yeah.
So like I said,we still have a lot of opportunity to grow
with kind of our existing consumer target,if you will.
But you know,the brand does have a rich kind of...in
the brand’s DNAis this kind of an at-home game.
This game you can go and kind of,you know, try to set
(05:24):
the high scoreat the neighborhood bar or restaurant.
So that is a market that we are pursuingcoming into 2025.
Right.Trying to track that out-of-home market.
And as we're thinking about,
you know, ways to make our offering,you know, really interesting
in that market along comesthis idea of competitions.
Which, again, is somethingthat actually is also in the brand's DNA.
(05:46):
You know, if you look backover the history books, you see mentions
of the 1990 Pop-A-Shot WorldChampionship, which was held, I think, in,
in a Marriott near the O'Hare airport.
Right.
But, these competitions have beenthe thing that we're trying to revitalize.
And, you know, as Professor
Kachersky’s experiencedsome of that's at a national level, right?
(06:06):
How can we get on ESPN?
How can we show, you know,a national audience that Pop-A-Shot
is a competitive activitybut also a fun activity.
But we're also really optimisticthat it's going to also,
have some potential,from a local market perspective.
You know, maybe the bar that you go toon Thursday night,
starts hosting a Pop-A-Shot league.
(06:28):
You know, we've seen that happen withsports like cornhole, trivia, card games.
And we're just really optimisticand curious
to see what happens if we start, you know,what happens if we start pursuing that,
with Pop-A-Shot.
Did Covidhave any role in some of your plans,
or how did Covid affectparticipation and sales of Pop-A-Shot?
(06:49):
Yeah, I think,
across the industry, I think Covid created
a lot of winners and a lot of losers.
And Pop-A-Shot was definitelyin the winner's camp, right?
We saw a lot more interest, and saleson the game during that time period.
As you know,
we think people were just lookingfor new things to do, active things to do,
(07:10):
and ways to spend time with each other,kind of in that private, safe environment.
If I can chime in from that,on that from the consumer perspective.
I turned 40 right at the beginning ofthe pandemic, and my wife had it planned
anyway to get me my Pop-A-Shotfor my birthday, for my 40th.
And, it was just like during that
(07:31):
time, it was so great to have because,you know, working from home.
And I was like, you know,
like I'd complete a task and then go shoota couple of rounds and like,
it was just like a refresher and a resetbefore going on to the next activity.
And, yeah,it was definitely, a winner for me
as far as, coming in during the pandemic.
And then grading papersto be grading papers,
(07:53):
then take a break and do some Pop-A-Shot.
Yeah, exactly.
I guess, like, put me in a better mood.
And then I was a little more lenienton the grading. Right.
You know
how many models of Pop-A-Shot do you sell?
We sell about - and pleasedon't quote me on the numbers - but about,
6 or 7 different primary game models.
(08:13):
And that's, you know, some are,dual hoop games where you compete
against somebody right next to you.Some are single hoop games.
And then in addition to that,just last year we we launched into kind
of a new segment, which is a mini hoopor an over the door hoop.
And so I just called the Super Slam,and that is a new kind of a newer product
that we're continuingto try to develop the market on
in addition to as we as we talked about,you know, next year,
(08:36):
we're planning to launch,kind of an out-of-home game
tailored for, you know, the bar,the restaurant, the arcade.
And now we're going to go to Luke.
So you got Pop-A-Shot on your 40thbirthday?
[Luke (08:50):
Yeah.] The time you took to it, did you play it as a kid?
I mean, did you know it existed?
I mean, I knew arcade basketball existed.
Yeah, I'm from as long as I can remember,and was always something that
interested me.
And so I always, always played it.
And there was one particular time I,I took my nephew to the movies one time,
(09:12):
we were really early for the movie,and we had some time to kill.
And, there was it there was an arcadebasketball in the lobby
of the theater, and we almost didn'twant to go into the movie
because we were just like,where's this going to go in high score?
And it was just it wasit was addictive and actually like
so from that point forward,I just all in on arcade basketball.
I don't know that I was personally awareof the Pop-A-Shot brand
(09:36):
until like within a yearbefore the pandemic,
when my neighbor and friendhad one in his garage.
And, I mean, it blew my mind.
I was like, what?
You can get this thing at home.
And so then that put the...setthe gears in motion
for my wifeto get that for me for the 40th.
(09:57):
And how did you get
interested in entering the competition?
I think Pop-A-Shot did a really good job
at designing the flowfor the submission process, because,
Yeah, I'm on the email list,and so I get the call for submissions,
and it was a pretty easyask for the initial submission.
It was just, report your high score,you know, just self-report high score.
And, I think the other form field was: Anything else (10:21):
undefined
we should know at this point?
So I thought, okay, I got it.
Let me just try to be a little bit
interesting here, you know,so I said that, you know,
I'm not a social influencer,but I'm a professor of marketing.
And this would make a great storyfor my classes.
And, yeah, I don't,I don't know, maybe Nick and speak to what
you might have seen in that or but thenI got the, the ask to create a video and,
(10:47):
and went from there
was I think if the initial askwas to make a video,
I don't know that I would have done it,but it was
it was pretty easy to just like,yeah, let's let's see what happens.
And Nick, how many, responses did you get?
Interested responsesdid you get to the initial email?
Sure.
To the initial email, it was about 200and just north of 250 responses.
(11:10):
And like Luke said, we you know, we...thiswas a brand new thing for us, right?
We didn't know if we were gonna get 2000or 2.
So for that first stage,we did try to make it as kind of low
touch as possible just to see, you know,kind of how many fish we could get.
And then you get the 250 responses,
how many broke through the next roundthat you either,
(11:34):
auditioned, interviewed and the like?
Sure.
We targeted...so it was it was 50.
I remember in the criteria kind ofthe first criteria was their high score.
It had to be at least150 points for us, for you
even to get into that consideration set,because we were looking obviously
(11:56):
for stronger players.
For that second round,you know, whereas the first round
we tried to make as low touch as possiblefor the consumer, for the second round
we tried to put a little bitmore onus on them.
And so that's where we askedfor some video submissions.
We asked for them to submit video of themplaying, and it was just so we could
as a double check on their high score.
Right.
And then we also asked for a videothat they showed their personality
(12:19):
a little bit.
And you know, like I said,the score was really the
the main criteriathat we were evaluating for.
But, in addition, we're looking for peoplelike Luke said, like
who are Interesting.
Who maybe had some stories,who maybe would be people
that we would be interestedin rooting for as consumers.
And secondarily,you know, we knew that this ESPN broadcast
(12:44):
was going to bring some eyeballsand some awareness and some buzz for us.
But we were also optimisticthat some of our consumers could help
kind of build that buzz. Right?
And maybe that meansthey have a huge social following.
Maybe it means it doesn't.
The key thing for us waswe were just thinking through
if we ask these consumersto help us bring some content,
(13:04):
to be interviewed,to kind of help us build the story,
do they seem like people who are goingto be willing and excited to do that?
And again, that wasn't the main criteria,but that was that was a nice
you know, that was an importantone for us to evaluate as well.
Were you, Luke,were you surprised when you were selected?
Yes and no.
(13:24):
I mean, I was I was elated
for surewhen I got the final email that I was in,
the decibel level in my housewas pretty loud with myself,
my kids, my wife, like,everybody was just just super excited.
I, you know, after I got the,
the hook for itto, you know, submit a video and, yeah,
(13:46):
I'm, like, workshopping thingswith my daughters and my wife
and trying to come up with different ideasand concepts and, talked about.
And when we came up with this,Professor Pop-A-Shot idea,
I just
it felt like it came to melike I had a really good feeling about it.
And then, like, when it was done,like anybody I showed it to was like,
oh, they have to pick you. And I was like.
(14:06):
So I was hopeful.
I was cautiously hopeful the whole time.
And then I got to,I got to interview with,
Pop-A-Shot peoplebefore the last round, and,
I thought that conversation went great.
And so I had a good feeling.
So it was I was surprised, butI was also like, I was hopeful, you know?
(14:30):
And so let's break it down.
So there were 50 peoplethat, Nick, you were interested in.
And did you interview all50 or did you have a further,
you know, culling of the
numbers for interviewees and then finallyfor the top, I don't know,
was it eight people that competedor ten people that competed on television?
(14:50):
Yeah.
So so Round 2 was basically the requestfor the video submission,
which culled it down to approximately20 people got interviewed.
Of those 20, we ultimately selected
seven to competein the national championship.
And then one, actually qualifiedfrom an in-person
(15:11):
eventthat we also kind of executed as a test.
So in Chicago,at a bar named Barstool River
North, we held a qualifying tournamentthat anybody could come to.
It was a it was a weeknight in July.
And from that, you know,
we selected kind of thethe best contestant based on scores,
(15:31):
to join the seven candidates who qualifiedfrom the online submission process.
We're here with
Nick Gonzalez, Vice President of Marketing
for Pop-A-Shot, and Luke Kachersky,Associate Professor of Marketing
at Fordham's Gabelli School of Business.
So ultimately,
(15:52):
we get this, you get the call,
you come on down, and,
before you did, how much?
How many weeks did you have
before appearing at the championship?
How many weeks to practice,let's say? Yeah.
I mean, well, hey, look, I've beenpracticing my whole life, Mark, you know?
(16:13):
But from the time that the notificationcame through
that I was in, until the tournament,it was about four weeks.
How many hours a daydid you practice during that time?
Oh, I definitely played more than usual.
It definitely went from less of just,like, a strictly casual thing to a, like,
all right, kind ofmake sure I get some time into that.
(16:34):
But, I mean, it varied.
I tried to make sure to get some play timein every day just to keep up the
the rhythm and the consistency.
But, you know, some days that meant20 minutes, other days, you know,
maybe I could play for an hour or so.
And then you come on
down and you know, you are on television.
[Luke Kachersky (16:52):
Yeah.] What effect does that have in terms of your focus,
your concentration, your ability,as opposed to your earlier practices?
Do you think that the televisionaspect added to the intrigue,
added to the pressure, added to the fun?
Definitely added to the fun.
(17:14):
It did not,
it had absolutely no effect on mecome game time.
And I feel like the rest of thecompetitors would probably say this too.
Nick, you probably know this fromfrom playing as well.
Like when you're when you're playing,the only thing that exists in the world
is the balls and that hoop, and it's justyou're just locked in and focused.
So, you know, while playing it just it
(17:38):
didn't feel any differentthan than playing any other time.
But was the equipment different?
Was the,
interaction with the other contestants
different than you expected?
It was.
So the interaction with the,the other contestants was,
extremely pleasant.
I mean, everybody was just so niceand, like, just good, positive vibes.
(18:03):
You know, it wasn't, you know,a competition where somebody, like,
trying to trip you when you're walking upto the, to the basket.
So everybody was was super niceand everything.
Equipment wise, it was a new machine.
I think there was a little bitof a learning curve too,
at least for me and maybe for everybodyexcept for Josh, I don't know.
(18:24):
But, so was it was it a new machine,it was a little bit of a learning curve
on that.
And just for the record,Josh was the winner.
Yes.] Okay.
And did you have time to practice
in the facility
before the competition,and if so, how much time?
Yeah, we had,
probably a total of almost two hoursto, to practice.
(18:46):
And so there, you know,
there were the two hoopsset up that you saw on the broadcast.
And so between the eight of us,we just kept rotating,
rotating and taking turns, practicing.
Did you feel the pressure when you started
competing on televisionfor the championship?
No. I can be 100% like I,
(19:07):
I didn't feel the [...]Nothing about, about TV.
It was just for me trying to getthe rhythm of of that machine.
Like every arcadebasketball has its own its own
rhythm,its own tempo, its own peculiarities.
And, so for me, it was just the processof, of trying to figure out that one.
So, backto Nick, in terms of the broadcast,
(19:30):
what kind of broadcast agreementdid you create with ESPN8?
Yeah.
So, you know, ESPN8 has,
it's come a long wayin the last couple of years,
and they're now at a point where they have
a pretty standard,template that, that different
sports, different brands can kind ofjust kind of easily fall into.
(19:52):
And that's what happened with Pop-A-Shotin this case.
So Ocho Day is always the first Fridayin August.
ESPN sets up two production teams
on location, and this yearit was in Rock Hill, South Carolina.
One production team coversthe outdoor events.
One production team coversthe indoor events.
If you want to participate,you pay $15,000
(20:15):
for ESPN to essentially produce the show.
You as a brand have to pay the fee.
You have to provide the talent,which in our case, were the competitors,
as well as the color commentary.
Color commentator.
ESPN provides the play-by-play guy.
And so that's what we did.
(20:36):
The otherparts of the deal are Pop-A-Shot,
in exchange for that fee, is entitledto four minutes of commercial time during
the broadcast, ESPN gets the remainder,and once the broadcast has aired,
Pop-A-Shot has the rightto kind of redistribute,
edit, post, pretty much do whatever
we want with it outside of aired on TV.
(20:58):
So basically it's an ad splitarrangement, correct?
You just get some...
Ad split arrangementwith a production fee.
Okay.
So in other words,there was a split of the ads,
but you paid the production fee,but you have the rights to distribute
it in any mediumexcept for broadcaster cable television.
That's right.
And usually, in years past I've seenESPN issue kind of like a lockout period.
(21:22):
Like you have to wait 90 daysor six months before you can redistribute.
And it looks like that's changed.
Because this year we just had to waituntil the day after the broadcast
for those rights to kind of be active.
Would you do something like this againnext year?
I would definitely do somethinglike this again next year.
I actually have a little bit of experiencedoing kind of Ocho and ESPN broadcasts
(21:45):
from my spike ball days as well, and eachone is a little bit different, but
my kind of mentality is that
it can be well worth the investment
if you're thinking about how to create
the surround sound around the broadcast,how you are able to think about,
you know, getting more from the contentand from the Championship
(22:06):
than just that 60 minute broadcast.
Whether it's social media posts,whether it's teasers, you know,
that sort of thing.
Yeah.
Speaking of social media, did you, postclips of highlights on Instagram
and other social media or even YouTube?
We did.
Yeah, we posted clips, highlightsin the full broadcast
(22:26):
across various social channelskind of after it aired.
And we also actually got a lot of content
from the leadup to the championship as well,
whether it was giving consumersthe opportunity to meet a little,
to learn a little bitmore about the competitors,
creating some contentfrom the qualifying event.
Would think of
(22:47):
doing local competitions, given,
the interest in Pop-A-Shotand given the fact that you had something
in Chicago to get, possibly a contestantor two from the kind of live local events?
So would you continue doing thator expanding that to other markets?
Yeah,we're thinking about local competitions
(23:07):
in two ways and hopefully goingto get started in 2025.
So one is local markets
as kind of our roadto the national championship.
So that might be, you know,five qualifiers, one in each region.
The winner from each qualifiers advancesto the national championship.
And you can see how that can be a,
you know, something that we kind of talkabout in market nationally.
(23:31):
And then at the same time, you know,
we are really interestedin trying to facilitate
bar owners,
particularly, and hosting their ownPop-A-Shot
leagues, their ownPop-A-Shot competitions, using,
you know, our soon to come to market,kind of out-of-home game.
So I think two very interesting paths.
(23:53):
We're planning to test a lot of things.
We're hopeful that both will work out andthat's that's what we're thinking about.
What about colleges and universitiesas a market?
Colleges and universities,I think, is another interesting market.
I think we've had some success to date,selling to
some of the facilities around campus,like the intramural sports
(24:13):
building, places where students mightthey might want students
to kind of hang out,sit down in the lobby.
We have more challenges if we try to thinkabout the college student
as the end consumer or the end purchaser,you just think about disposable income.
You think aboutwhere are they going to put the game.
You know that
that's all well, in not in the dorm roomor maybe in a home that you're renting.
Might not want to make a $300 investmentto put it in there.
(24:35):
But always opportunities.
And Nick, I mean, theythey find space for beer pong, right?
[Nick Gonzalez (24:40):
It's true.]
It's true.
Maybe we need to give it a second look.
Could be the facultyadvisor for our team, then,
if there is a Pop-A-Shot team at all.
Right.
We need advisors so I could see that.
But Luke, would you try to...wouldyou think of competing in future events?
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, you know,I hearing Nick talk about me. Yeah.
(25:02):
Gearing up for, maybe another competition,like, “All right, what do I got to do?
How do I how do I get in there?”
So we see you again on television.
We we may see you in the New Yorkmetropolitan area,
for various competitions.
And you become,you know, obviously a fan of the product.
Enjoy the product.
And, do you ever talk,you know, Nick, with the contestants,
(25:23):
like how to make changes in the product,think about other uses of the product
because you had, you know,a number of elite contestants at location.
So did you, try to, you know,
pick their brains aboutmaybe some ideas for the future?
We did.
And it's actually a regular partof kind of our, this marketing practice
(25:45):
is to regularly interviewconsumers who have purchased.
And those can go, you know,and those can now, those are fairly open
ended conversations sometimesget into specific product recommendations.
You know, people are looking for waysto make it look nicer
or they want to cover up the steelbars, right? They want to be longer.
They want wanted to be shorter.
(26:06):
But also can even just cover
kind of getting at the root of whypeople purchase, you know, how
they're looking for somethingto do with their, their kids
that they enjoyjust as much as the kids do.
And Pop-A-Shot is the answer.
So it's a regular part of our process.
It always gleanskind of interesting insights.
Across kinda the whole spectrum.
You know, Mark, if I can, if I could chimein, I mean, when, when,
(26:28):
I had my interview rightin that last round, to, to be selected,
one of the questionsI, I just was so heartened
to be askedwas, Nick asked me like, I, my,
my kids were in the room with mewhen, when we were having this interview.
“What other games do you spend time on?”You know, and, other than than Pop-A-Shot
(26:50):
and it just it just struck me as like,okay,
this is why this brand has already startedthis, this great turnaround
and is on a great trajectorybecause, like, they're
they listen to their customers and like,they're genuinely interested in,
like what's going on in their livesand where Pop-A-Shot fits.
And you know, that's that's
how you identify opportunitiesand build relationships. So
(27:11):
Yeah], [...] ball is such an international game now.
Have you thought about marketingthe product internationally?
We have, right?
And we think about places, you know, wherewhere basketball is popular
or getting more popular as maybe thefirst place that we would, we would start.
It just kind of big picturejust kind of comes down to priorities
(27:32):
and which things are we going to do first?
Have you thought about possibly
creating a similar kind of gamefor other kind of sports like,
you know, pop-a-goal for hockeyor pop-a-homerun, pop-a-touchdown?
Has anything come to your mind,along those lines for arcade games?
We have definitely looked at other sports,which has led to some pretty interesting
(27:56):
conversations aroundwhat makes a Pop-A-Shot, a Pop-A-Shot.
Does the ball have to roll back to you?
Does there have to bean electronic scoreboard?
Does there have to be an announcer?
Does there have to be any of those things?
So the short answer toyour question is yes, we have.
We don't have anything currently planned
(28:16):
to come to the market today,but we're working on it.
And it strikes me this is a quitea wholesome game and a family game.
And, you know, Luke has played the gameand played with your daughters or children
and do you think there's a formof happy innocence in that kind of family
activity, when so much todayis devoted to social media,
(28:40):
and they talk about some of the issuesregarding social media, the loneliness,
other potential issues, the,threats, the fears, etc..
So do you think this is almost lookingback to the future and a different time,
and that customers and familiesmay say, hey, this is really outdoor
time, this is indoor time,but not computer time.
(29:00):
So Luke, what do you think about that?
Oh, that's that's 100% true.
I mean, it's,
I and actually I think
and correct me if I'm wrong,but I'm pretty sure you messaged
a little bit on thatabout getting physical and being active.
So, yeah,I totally, totally agree with that.
(29:20):
And it's it's accessible.
I mean, I, I when I was getting ready
for the tournament,one of the things that I wanted to do
is like, just make sure I got to playagainst, different variety of people.
So, like, I live near a lake.
And so I hauled my Pop-A-Shot down toto one of the lake beaches,
and just whoever wasthere was playing like,
like a grandmotherand her grandson came up
and we were all playing togetherand then needed to go, like, you know, to,
(29:43):
like a, you know, 30ish year old guysthat were just hanging out.
They came and played and,just like everybody wants to get into it.
It's it's very accessible.
And, Nick, what do you think about that
idea like kind of an antisocial media component to Pop-A-Shot?
Yeah it resonates.
And you know we were talking earlier about
you know some of the customer interviewsthat we that we have.
(30:05):
And at the surface level
we commonly will have conversationsaround.
It gets my kids off of the couch.
It gets them away from their screens.Right?
One level deeper, we'll start to touch onhow it's something that
the whole family can enjoy, which insome households is kind of rare, right?
Mom likes it,dad likes it, the kids like it.
(30:28):
And then on the third level,it kind of the thing that that
usually isn't overtly
statedis, is accessibility, like Luke mentioned.
But a lot of timesthat accessibility comes in the form of,
“I can play for two minutes,I'm walking by with my kid.
It's like two minutes,but if we want to play for two hours”
[Luke Kachersky (30:48):
yeah], right?
So there's there's not a time constraint
like there can bewith a lot of family activities. Right?
If I'm sitting down and playing Monopoly,that's a, that's an hour easy.
Right?
And at the same time,
it doesn't have to be a planned activity.
We can be walking by and just shoot,right, versus family movie night.
What are we picking? Right?
(31:09):
What time does it start?I don't want to watch this.
I don't want to watch that.
So accessibility I think is one of the,core benefits of the product.
But but accessibilityin a couple different ways.
And Luke, you know, you teach marketingand we've been colleagues
for many, many years.
What do you think of your experienceas a case study for your classes?
(31:31):
My experienceas a case study for my classes.
I think it could I mean, in terms of,
again,you know, Pop-A-Shot is a is a brand
that's like on the, on the come up again.
And, you know, creating an event,building buzz,
kind of going grassroots like,like Nick had mentioned about,
(31:51):
you know, being cognizant of,what competitors they chose
that could maybe help in that processor at least now facilitate.
Yeah, totally.
This does make a great casefor, for, my class.
I got I got to write that one up.
Okay.
If you need any help from me,I'd be happy to,
to join you,because it's been fascinating.
And I do want to make one announcement,you know, for your students
(32:14):
or your friends, of anybodythat listens to the podcast.
This is an audio only podcast.
And of course, many of you are thinking,wow, what does this look like?
What what was it like to compete?
Well, we want to post video clipsof Luke's skills in this competition.
On the introductory page on our Podbeanpage and on our forum website.
(32:37):
So if you take a lookat the summary of the podcast,
you can click to those videos.
You know, to see your professoror you know, colleague,
friend, watch and competeat this national championship
and get a feel of whatit's like and to view it.
But unfortunately, we do have to close.
And on behalf of Fordham University,the Gabelli School of Business
(33:00):
and the Sports Business Initiative,thanks so much to Nick
Gonzalez of Pop-A-Shot and ProfessorLuke Kachersky of Fordham's Gabelli School
for an engaging,informative and downright fun discussion
of a very different typeof sports product,
and the experience of participatingin a national championship
(33:22):
by becoming an expert competitorin that product.
A shout out to my producer,Victoria Ilano for her
great work,and thanks to all of you for listening in.
For the Sports Business Podcastat Fordham's Gabelli
School of Business,I’m Mark Conrad or Prof.
C, have a great day.
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