March 21, 2024 • 54 mins
The State of Flux podcast presents Chris Hess, popular musician and writer known for his association with the band Swimm. Discover his musical journey that spans from the shores of Satellite Beach, Florida, to the glitzy world of Los Angeles. Listen to him recount tales of performance breakthroughs, valuable creative partnerships, and the joys and hardships of establishing a unique sound. Tune in to explore the impact of relocating, overcoming imposter syndrome, and music scene adaptations during the pandemic. Dive into the transformational art scene, their memorable ventures, and strategic brand collaborations and partnerships that forged their path to success. Delve into the intricacies of imposter syndrome and Chris' transition into fiction writing, leading to the creation of his platform "Youngest Man in LA". Get ready to be inspired by this riveting journey in the world of music and writing.
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Youngest Man In LA: https://chrishess.substack.com/
SWIMM: https://open.spotify.com/artist/0tLb7wQ0nbvoqx2ZOiLOfX?si=Dv_jwkZcRtWnBMQ-jITmbA
Chris on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swimm/
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Episode Hosted by Rich Nardo.
Intro contains music from "Plan A" by Dmytro Somov.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music.
(00:10):
Back with another episode of the State of Flux podcast. We are so lucky to be
joined by Chris Hess this month, who is hands down one of the most creative
and talented people I know.
You may know him as the front man for Swim, but he's also a phenomenal writer,
and you can check out his work on Substack under the name Youngest Man in LA.
We get into picking up and moving your life cross country in pursuit of your
art, the beauty of a long-term creative partnership, imposter syndrome,
(00:33):
and a whole lot more. So let's jump into it.
Music.
Are you ready?
I feel like it's been way too long since we caught up anyway.
So it's good to see your face and hear your voice. Yeah, it feels good.
First of all, thank you for having me on. I was so delighted to hear from you
again that it was about this too.
(00:54):
I'm always excited to hear about what you're doing. So it was kind of,
yeah, made my week to hear that,
A, you're doing the podcast and that you would want me to be a part of it.
So thank you. It's an honor to have you on. And just for the listener,
you and I obviously go back probably about a decade or more at this point, right?
I'll never forget the first time I saw you guys perform at Swim was at South by Southwest.
(01:16):
And it was when you guys were working with Rob Abelow. He was like,
Oh, you got to come check out this band, you got to come check out this band.
And it was like the middle of the afternoon. And I wasn't super expecting a
lot because I didn't know anything about you guys.
But then you guys just blew me away to the point where you guys were actually
the first record and one of only a handful of records put out under 24 West.
But yeah, so I think a good place to kind of start this conversation because
(01:39):
I always love the way you guys carry yourselves.
I love how true you guys have always been to your vision of what you wanted
the band to be and, you know, taking risks and everything.
And one of those first risks that you guys took is you're from Florida,
you're from Satellite Beach.
And I guess it was just you and Adam who were the ones that picked up,
but you picked up and moved across the country to L.A. I'd love to hear a little bit more.
(02:02):
I don't know if I've even actually heard the full backstory of the move out
west and what that whole process was like for you guys. Well, thanks for saying that.
At that point, I guess it was the end of 2013.
It was kind of a funny few years because basically Adam and I started a band
together that was just a two piece band. band and it was called Bastard Love Child of Rock and Roll.
It was a completely different animal and it was the first band that I ever started.
(02:26):
I don't know, that was in the vein of when I was obsessed with Death From Above
1979 and the Yeah Yeah Yeahs and that was the first musical endeavor that I had ever started.
I think because of our ties with the surf industry and I was surfing competitively,
we had this nice little spring within that industry and we started touring up
to New York all the time because it was like a straight shot.
(02:48):
And we would stop in like along the way and tour up through Winston-Salem and
all those different spots.
So New York, I would say we'd always play like one show in the city in Lower
East Side, like Lit Lounge or something.
And then we'd play in Brooklyn somewhere.
And we were doing that for a few years. And we were also traveling to Southern
California, but never really LA, to be honest.
(03:10):
LA was like this sort of mystery to us at that time.
And then we got to a point where it felt like we had grown our foundation in
Florida as much as we were going to be able to do.
And then it was like, okay, I guess we moved to New York because that's what's
where we were like building another thing. And we felt comfortable there.
(03:30):
But the situation would have been moving from our hometown in Florida,
where Adam had this really cool house in Merritt Island, where we had a big jam room.
It was like, okay, yeah, let's go surf and then like go practice again and write
for a while and then go surf again.
To then, okay, if we go to, if we moved to New York, then we're going to be
sharing a little room in Williamsburg at our friend's apartment.
(03:53):
We're going to have to figure out where we're going to rent to practice and all that.
And it was just a little daunting. So I think we kept hesitating on that move.
And then we basically evolved into Swim because we honestly just started playing
shows and started writing music as a full band instead of like a two-piece band.
And it just started feeling so much different creatively that it was one of
(04:14):
those points where it was like, let's just be a band. And there's some sorry,
there's so many tangents, because then I start thinking of like us playing with
Spencer and Tom from Sago.
Those guys were also an impetus for us to then start coming to LA.
Okay, hold on, let me let me stay on track. We just for the record,
I'm a big fan of tangents. So as many tangents as you want.
(04:34):
Because it is like there's so many different little streams that combine then
we move to LA, but it's hard to just be like, well, we picked up and we moved
without being like, well, we were playing shows in Southern California, like Orange County.
We would have residencies at Detroit Bar and Costa Mesa.
And there was a company called Insight, and we were sponsored by them.
And they're this really cool Australian surf skate company.
(04:56):
And we would keep a car in Southern California at their warehouse because we
were coming out there so much.
But still, LA was like this weird mystery city that didn't understand it all.
So then we started Swim, put out our first EP, and got on this tour with St. Motel and Hockey.
And it was a two-month tour almost across the entire United States.
(05:19):
And honestly, the LA move was a little bit off the cuff of having Spencer and Tom play.
It was like a revolving cast of Swim at that point. And they were kind of like,
yeah, a spot just opened in the warehouse that we live in.
We had played the warehouse, the Cube, one time. It was like our first LA show we ever did.
Again, playing this warehouse in like this weird part of downtown LA was,
(05:40):
wow, this is all so weird, especially from our little beach town in Florida.
We finished the tour on the West Coast and we had been talking about moving so much.
And I think it was kind of just this thing of it's either now when the spot
opened up or we're just going to go back to Florida and kind of flail around
and see another opportunity.
So we just decided to stay. And I remember we just didn't come home after that
(06:02):
tour. And Adam and I moved into the cube.
We shared a bed because it was just basically like the way that place was set
up was a loft with like four different beds separated by like sheets and cubicle walls.
So we had our little cubicle and shared a bed for like six months.
But that was kind of the genesis of the whole L.A..
That's crazy. I didn't realize that you knew the Segoe guys before you even moved out there.
(06:25):
How did you end up connecting with those guys? So you know, Jesse Rosoff, right?
Know of him. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So Jesse was from Florida.
He saw Adam and I play again as our first band, Bastard Love Child Rock and
Roll. Everyone just called it Blore.
He saw us play at a house show in Gainesville, probably the first year we were even a band.
(06:48):
And he was just this young dude who was trying to get into booking bands.
And so he started booking shows and he built this little little web of bands.
At the time, Sago had a different singer that was called Eyeslip's Eyes.
There's a couple other bands from Utah.
There's this band Reptar from Athens, Georgia.
And so he had these things where, oh, you go play shows there.
(07:11):
Then when those bands come to Florida, you guys play with them.
So we met Spencer and those guys from Sago because I think we did basically
like we traded the shows. They came to Florida.
We did a couple shows with them in Florida, one of our first LA shows,
it was like they were having a cube party.
And so we, yeah, we played that.
(07:31):
And that was the first night I met them, actually. But we ended up trading off
shows for probably the next year or two, to the point where even Spencer and Tom started playing.
In swim as it was like transmogrifying from the
other thing into like a full band those guys would just
hop on little southern california runs with us
(07:52):
and so we started to get to know them more and more i remember i'd have like
these like hour-long conversations with spence when i still lived in florida
about like what they were up to and like what we were up to we just all became
so close and yeah it was just this beautiful bond so then when we ended up doing
that long tour across the the US,
they played with us and it was at that point when they were like,
(08:14):
hey, this warehouse that you played that's crazy and constantly in flux,
there's a little spot open.
What was that like at first when you guys were really trying to find your sound
and then having half of your touring performing band be based across the country?
Did you guys go back and forth their practices or was it just when you were
out there, you came out a day or two early to get some jams in and then go?
(08:36):
I look back now at that state of the band and it being this thing where it was a full revolving door.
Like if we were in Florida, we were playing with a number of different people
depending on who was available to step in for bass and guitar.
And then if we were on the West Coast, it was whoever was available out there.
So usually we'd fly out a day early, get one jam in, sometimes not even have time for that.
(09:01):
So sometimes it would just be if we get a soundcheck for the show,
maybe we could go over anything that you have questions on and then you just jump into the show.
I was just getting anxiety just remembering that thing. I don't know.
It was so crazy, but it was so fun.
I remember feeling like, well, every song has all these different personalities
depending on who's playing the guitar, who's playing the bass on it.
(09:23):
Even if it's the same part.
The way they add their own little personality to it, that was really cool as
stressful as it could be.
It was just like, wow, this is truly so many different shades.
That's so cool. It speaks to the talent of the guys in Segoe too,
that they could pick it up like that.
Did you find yourself more attracted to the personality of the songs when it
(09:48):
was with Spencer and Tom or was it like you loved it equally,
whether it was the people you were playing with in Florida, or if it was the Segoe guys.
I would say, I mean, well, the funny thing is Tom is a drummer and he learned,
he could play bass, but he'd never played bass until he did that tour with us
and then picked up the bass because Tom is a freakishly talented human being as is Spencer.
(10:12):
And I will say like some of my favorite iterations of those songs and like playing
those shows was for sure with them.
And Spencer, as you know, he's one of my favorite guitarists.
Spencer is in my top one to two guitarists of my life. And that's with anybody.
That's like, yeah, Mark Knopfler, yes, and then Spencer.
(10:35):
Wow. Yeah, no, he's a freak. And he's just the most individually creative player.
I don't know. I've never met a mind that wraps around music quite in the way
that he does. was and it comes out and is playing in such a cool avant style.
What he would add to the swim songs was just inimitable for sure.
(11:00):
That's not to say I had, I had some friends that would play with us from Florida
that did their own thing.
And it was like, oh, whoa, that's so cool. Because now it's taking on this like
different surfy element.
Whereas like, when Spencer plays, it'd be a little more like jazz,
what the hell is even happening, but it's amazing element. It was always cool,
depending on who was playing.
(11:20):
But yeah, I just love Spencer and Tom so much.
And we started becoming so close. And there was a couple there was a minute
there were like, they were just kind of a part of the band. I remember going
to see you guys when I was out in LA one time and Spencer was playing with you.
And I was like, wait a minute, isn't that the guy from Segoe?
And I didn't really at the time pick up on the fact that you guys were so close.
(11:44):
I just knew that you both worked with Rob. You brought up a couple of times
here, something that I find really important.
And I've mentioned this a couple of times in the podcast has come up with a
couple of different guests.
I credit my work ethic and the things I've built in my career to the Long Island music scene.
And I really think that the lessons you kind of learn and the friendships that
(12:04):
you make and the partnerships that you make on a local music scene are so important
as an artist, but also just as a person.
So we've touched a little bit on the cue, but before we even get into that.
Move to L.A., obviously it's this big city that was a mystery to you before you moved there.
What were the things that you really were attracted to about L.A.?
(12:25):
And what were the things, contrastly, that you loved about Satellite Beach and
that you kind of missed and that you think make that local scene special?
Well, I'll start with the Florida element of it. It's funny because I wouldn't say...
That Satellite Beach itself was the scene that we were a part of.
But I think Florida in general had a scene because again, when I started the
(12:51):
first band, I was still living in Jacksonville where I went to college.
So there was this dual hometown feel where Jacksonville almost felt like a home
to us as much as Satellite Beach did.
Within, I guess, like six months after I started playing music,
we got this tour with Mickey Avalon.
(13:13):
And it was like these three shows around Florida or something.
It's funny because those shows opened up these portals of scenes around Florida
for us that started these friendships with people that I'm like,
to this day, some of my best friends in the world are from this small town in Tampa,
Indian Rocks Beach, Tampa, Who I only know because they happen to be raging
(13:37):
drunk at the Mickey Avalon show in Orlando.
We built these this whole thing. So then that sprouted this Florida thing where
it honestly felt like every weekend, we just toured around Florida.
That was our life was just basically he hit Tampa, Orlando, Miami, hometown.
(13:57):
Town obviously it's not like every week but it was
just frequently touring around florida and building
kind of like a florida home base i
would say like satellite beach growing up i
wouldn't say there was much of a scene that i was tapped
into other than like some of the older guys that
played at the youth group stuff i would go to you know
(14:19):
when i was like 15 everybody went to youth group group
after school on Mondays and there'd be like two guys that played
guitar and sang and some a lot of it was like Oasis covers
but also they were like really good and I'd
be like oh you guys are playing at Matt's Tropical Grill I'll come and sneak
in and watch you and usually like someone would come up to me and be like hey
(14:40):
you you you have to be 21 like you have to go but that was the Genesis of being
up becoming obsessed with music for me was not necessarily like finding some
local scene where I could go to shows all the time,
but just literally just any beach bar where some guy was playing guitar and
singing and had a cool voice.
(15:00):
I was so one of those kids that was probably just like annoying the crap out
of this guy who was just getting paid 10 bucks an hour to sing old drunk couples.
But that was it for me. And not to say there wasn't a little bit of like a Melbourne
scene because there were, I just wasn't really privy to it as like a little
little beach surfer kid.
But I don't know, as far as the contrast between.
Florida scene to LA, I would say the LA thing was just hyper focused,
(15:25):
maybe to find like the brethren and sister of bands that you want to create a scene with.
It wasn't necessarily like we could do that just in satellite.
But we did do that throughout Florida, then we moved to LA.
And it's funny, because it's just so endless, even though it's all pretty much
hyper focused with an Echo Park and Silver Lake and like the surrounding area,
(15:48):
you know, I guess it was LA was just so new at that time for us again,
because we had we had done all of our like big city shows in New York.
And so LA was kind of, we got really lucky into moving into the cube.
I think that was the biggest benefit and allure of Los Angeles was the fact
that we moved into a creative hub, It was already growing.
(16:11):
And the guys from Sago, even though they weren't even Sago when we moved in,
Eyes, Lips, Eyes had kind of just dissolved.
And Spencer at that time was kind of figuring out what he wanted to do.
It was just like a whole new enchilada.
And do you think that the goals and the vibe of the bands that you were friends
with and playing with in Florida was different than in LA?
(16:32):
Did LA feel like it was more out to quote unquote, make it than the Florida
band? Maybe in Florida, it's a little more specific to each band as far as how they take it.
Because there's definitely a lot of bands we were playing shows with in Florida
who were super dedicated and wanted to build a career.
(16:52):
And then also bands that we would play with that the singer was a buddy of mine
who had his tiling company and getting to play a show once a month was sick.
Like, bruh, that's all I need. So it was a bit mixed in Florida.
I guess in L.A., probably, yeah, most likely if you're in L.A.,
(17:12):
you're starting the band thing, your eyes are set on the prize a bit more. But even with L.A..
I would say it's not as maybe off-putting as what one might think.
Because I think there's a thing about LA where like, yes, everyone's here to quote unquote make it.
But even within the music world here, I noticed things where when I first moved here,
(17:36):
if I went to certain places in Hollywood and tried to, I don't know,
converse with musicians and artists there, the vibe was so different.
And it was sort of you're sitting in the middle of a bar and
then someone's just like oh yeah i just dropped this video here watch
it right here in this bar and then they walk away so you
(17:57):
can watch the video and they're just talking and like that sort of thing always
kind of threw me off in in a way whereas echo park it was a little more we're
just trying to do our thing and do it in a tactful way that was my that's very
generalized but that was what i noticed the first few years of being in LA.
There's a lot of different vibes musically, even within this one city.
(18:20):
I wonder if this is a case too, that the Cube might have shielded you guys from
that cliche, LA, everybody's looking
over your shoulder to see who's more worthwhile for them to talk to.
One of the things I always thought was so cool about it was you guys had your
own little creative enclave there.
It was very insular, even if it was open-minded, and a lot of people like to
come see shows there and everything, but it was also very self-contained and supportive.
(18:43):
Where I wonder if that maybe helped you guys feel a little bit more at ease
to explore and do what you wanted to do, even living in a city where it feels
like everybody's looking to be a big star. Absolutely.
I mean, I can't express enough how lucky I feel that the cube was where we moved
into and the group of friends surrounding that place was the scene that we were adopted into.
(19:10):
Because speaking in some cliches.
LA, I think is the saying that I hear sometimes that I think is so true is like,
it's a giant mirror in the way that like, if you're out here, and you're lonely,
because you just moved out here, and you can't and you feel like,
I don't know, am I just another person out here now trying to make it in a mind? Am I on my own?
(19:32):
Are the people I talked to kind of plastic?
If you're feeling that way, then
LA is just going to be this giant mirror that shines that back on you.
But you get lucky and you move
into the place where we moved and it was like this creative hub
of actually genuine sweet people that are really driven then that was kind of
(19:55):
the mirror that was shining back on us like the first couple years so it was
super motivating and yeah i got so lucky i had even friends outside of the cube
that were just these amazing visual artists that i would go art shows with.
And even that, I remember getting
a flyer for a Fela Kuti-themed dance night at the Echo on a Tuesday.
(20:17):
And that just blowing my mind so much that I kept the flyer as just a reminder
that, hey, you live in this place where anything is possible.
Because coming from Satellite Beach on a Tuesday night to think that I could
go find some Afrobeat themed dance party was just insane, you know?
(20:39):
Yeah. And when you guys moved, would you say your motivation,
because you talked about also thinking about moving to New York,
the people that you had found in LA and Spencer and Tom,
or was it more the allure of LA where you're like, kind of want to take this
thing to the next level? It's got to be a major city.
LA seems like a great place to do I think the allure was the city aspect a little bit.
(21:00):
Yeah, I think at that point, we had felt like we've proven ourselves in Florida.
We've made a name for ourselves there.
And then there's that little wonder that you have, like, what if we do that?
What, how's that going to turn out? Because you never know. It's so funny how
as you do things creatively, I feel like it's always this giant question mark
and then you do it and then you feel like, of course, like we could do that then.
(21:25):
And then you, the next thing is like a giant question mark and you doubt yourself
and you feel like an imposter and then you do something and you're like,
oh, okay, cool. So I did that.
Of course I could do that. But yeah, I mean, we wanted to go to a big city and
just be around that kind of energy all the time.
I wanted to be able to go see shows on a Monday night at residency nights and
(21:45):
be blown away by bands throughout the week, which was, again, like such a cool part.
I think being with Spencer and Tom and the Cube was more of just a really lovely
guiding hand, but we definitely were very motivated by what could happen in
a big city and being around that many amazing bands.
(22:06):
How do you A, get inspired by, but then also can you be something that inspires those bands?
I just want to take a second here because I feel like the questions that I'm
asking you are kind of leading where it's like, oh, little Florida, big LA.
So I just I just want to take a moment to say that some of the bands that you
played with in Florida that you've introduced me to are phenomenal.
(22:26):
Sunday River, Fay Roy, all those bands. I love those bands.
So I just want to make it clear that I'm not trying to paint Florida as this
little engine that could sort of a thing either. Yeah.
Something I've thought about a lot, even the last, I don't know,
five years or something is that idea that even you have to go to a big city to go to the next step,
which I think as a younger band you have this thought that is
(22:49):
what you have to do and i realize that it's
not what you have to do it's an option and it's like
something that maybe if you feel you've exhausted what you can do where you
are and you're hungry for something different and more then it's amazing but
yeah there's so many bands that are like amazing right that are from little
towns that get discovered and blow up and you're like oh well they didn't have
(23:11):
to move to New York or LA to like do that.
So I don't think that it's even something that you have to do or is necessary.
And actually, sometimes can be I was talking about this with my friend Jake
from Space Face, the idea that you do have to move to LA.
But then also you're putting yourself in a place where you're almost bound to
(23:31):
get overlooked after a couple good things you do, because there's constantly
people doing amazing things.
It's that weird thing where it's like, it's good. but then it also can be adversely
effective for you because you're now just like.
In the cesspool amazing shit happening all the
time whereas if you stayed in florida i don't
(23:52):
know maybe it's more likely that a booking agent is
going to be like wait that's a cool story i
also think that same thing that you're talking about in terms of
being one of a million bands in la versus being on a smaller scene it could
also be prohibitive creatively because you're in a city where you're seeing
you know this band just made it and this is what they sound like and And you're
(24:16):
having more interaction with quote unquote industry people who are saying,
this is what we're looking for.
So you might be more tempted to go in that direction. Whereas if you're kind
of in your world and you found the right group of people who are inspiring you
to be unique and be yourself, and they're doing the same thing.
So you're still getting that competitive inspiration.
You might be better off in a smaller town, a smaller city, especially nowadays
(24:40):
when you're looking at it where A&Rs, it used to be you had to go to LA or New
York because that's where A&Rs were going to bars and trying to find bands,
but now they're all just looking at Spotify numbers and Instagram anyway, right?
So you could probably have a great start more than ever in a small town.
Yeah, I might have shifted towards that a little bit more.
(25:01):
It's hard to say if I've shifted towards that because I felt like the scene
got truncated here after COVID and maybe I haven't put in the effort to re-inject
myself myself into what scene has now become of East LA.
I know that for a time after COVID, everything just got halted.
It's been over a year now since.
It was felt like this scene that we had been accumulating and
(25:24):
like with i'm sure we'll talk about but love you down was sort
of a signifier of us trying to really like solidify and
galvanize that scene and then to have
like two years where it just was like no scene at all just physically impossible
to have a scene i've gone more along your train of thought there yeah maybe
it is better to formulate your story and your your thing without the influence
(25:48):
of it but not to get too too philosophical with it.
But at the same time now with TikTok and stuff, you just see everything that
way so much that is everyone just being inundated with the same exact inspirations, quote unquote,
unless they're really proactive about being a part of their scene in their hometown, which takes work.
Putting that on myself too. I used to put in a lot of work when I first moved
(26:11):
to LA to figure out what the scene was and how to be a part of it.
COVID, I will say, They definitely messed with that routine.
You mentioned Love You Down. When I think of LA, I really thought of you and
Adam as you guys really had a great finger on the pulse of everything.
And you guys are both so intelligent and creative. And you had such great network
(26:31):
that that was my love of LA.
You guys started out during shows, DIY shows at The Cube.
Maybe you could walk us through what those shows were like. and then going up
to Love You Down, which was this multi-day festival at respected venues in LA.
So the Cube shows became a little bit more of like a habitual practice to throw
(26:55):
a Cube show like once every, I don't know, maybe four months or something.
And also bred out of necessity because moving to LA,
there was a, I remember that first year, the idea of acquiring Liz Garrow's
email from The Echo was like this golden thing. I don't know how you're going to get that email.
And then if you get the email from someone and then you're able to be like,
(27:18):
hey, got this email through so-and-so just reaching out about booking because we just moved here.
Then it's like, what are the chances that they're going to email you back?
So during that time where you weren't getting an email back from venues,
it was like, okay, like let's create something of our own.
And so thankful again for the cube as a space that allotted us the ability to cultivate that.
(27:42):
So we would basically plan these shows, we book these shows,
it'd be like usually us and Sego, then another couple bands,
but it would always be us two.
And the way the warehouse was, every time we did a show, we would transform
the space. So we had this roll of Mylar that's like miles long,
and it essentially is like this, you know, reflective psychedelic material.
(28:06):
And we would spend, it would spend like a solid week and a half or two just
to, you know, on ladders hanging on the Mylar, stealing crates from the UPS
station nearby to build a stage.
And then like figuring out
compiling enough speakers from different people's raggedy
PAs to get a PA for the night and
(28:29):
I mean that was like the truest sense of me learning like what a DIY setup was
because every single thing was just as silly as it could be built but then eventually
looked incredible and the entire space was transformed at that time at the cube
there was an artist named Joe Holiday,
(28:49):
who's to this day, one of the most wildly genius off kilter artists I've ever
come in contact with, he would build out these entire wooden home installations within the warehouse.
So then people could like walk through these weird, almost like horror scene kind of things.
But then it's, it's so hard to describe without it sounding discombobulated.
(29:12):
But there was a time where it was just every facet of it was getting built from
the ground up in some some really weird left-to-center way to combine to these
nights where then people would come to the show and I think no matter what they
could tell that they weren't just walking into another warehouse show.
(29:32):
Whereas a couple of bands basically set up a PA and we're like,
okay, now we're going to play some songs and try to charge five bucks for some
PBRs and have a good night.
It was pretty obvious that some time and love had been put into every one of
these shows to where like,
oh, this is an experience that I'm going to remember as opposed to just another
show or just another after hours place where it's a skeezy vibe and people are
(29:55):
just trying to do what they do in dark corners of the places.
But I think all in all, just the feel of these shows were really just like infused
with a lot of care and love.
And I think people felt that. And so then that grew into.
Honestly, like these venues, I think got wind of like, oh, so now this,
(30:17):
this band is throwing these shows at the warehouse and hundreds of people are
showing up and like the pictures from it look insane.
And so then all of a sudden we could get that email back from those venues and
eventually led to us getting a residency at the Echo, which that to me,
like I think moving to LA and going to residencies.
And honestly, the Echo was the first place I ever went to a show in LA and has
(30:41):
always been like this somewhat of like a holy ground for me as far as like indie venue in Los Angeles.
So then us getting offered a residency after playing
a couple opening slots there will forever be like this
really seminal point in my career and we
kind of treated it the same as the cube shows so we decorated
the whole place the whole day before we would play and they were crazy it was
(31:04):
like really really lovely residency and got moved into the echo plex at one
point because the crowd was so big and it was just like it really seemed to
be working i think through that especially especially being that we booked every
Monday of that residency,
all of a sudden you're scouring for bands that you've played with.
You're booking three different bands every Monday.
(31:25):
So now you have these contacts and you see these bands and you're like,
I love the way that band sounded. I love the vibe of this band.
And then it was, okay, now we're able to play our own headlining show in LA.
And that was just like, holy crap, we're going to play the Echo.
It's going to be our show. We're going to charge for tickets.
Again, it was like that milestone moment. And we probably did that like there
(31:46):
at the Satellite and then also at the Bootleg,
these like really amazing indie venues around the east side of LA and noticed
the feeling of I love doing these headlining shows,
but I feel almost cheated out of what it could be because we only get to have
like two opening bands. How do we make this different for people?
After your third headline show in LA, you're kind of like, well,
(32:08):
how do we make it interesting for people to want to keep coming back?
And I just had the idea of what if instead of it being like two opening bands,
what if we build a whole night and try to get as many of the bands that we love
playing with in LA to be a part of the night?
And so that was the genesis of Love You Down. I remember something that I think
(32:29):
you guys kind of carried over from the Cube shows to the first of Residency
and then Love You Down is that kind of immersive experience as well.
Like you guys always had visual artists that would come and do installations.
And I even remember you guys had set for a flower company to set up the arrangements
on the stage to look like the Beverly Hills EP cover and everything.
And I remember just being so impressed that you were smart enough even then
(32:52):
as independent independent artists to think, oh, well, why don't we try to get
a budget from, I think we ended up working with bands in town.
And that's another thing that I wanted to talk to you about was you guys were
always so good about managing your career in a way that would take advantage
of opportunities like brand partnerships and that sort of a thing.
But it was never they're doing this because somebody's paying them to do it.
(33:15):
It was we're doing what we're doing.
You could get on board or we're going to find somebody else.
That takes a certain degree of authenticity in in the face of maybe losing opportunities,
that just feels like it would take so much self-confidence.
So I'm wondering, like, how did
you guys stay so strong in that and always being authentic to yourself?
And, you know, is it just a lot of self-confidence or what was it?
(33:35):
The initial partnerships that came from when we first started playing music
and making those brand partnerships felt so organic because the time of starting
playing music together,
Adam and I, I was surfing competitively.
So I was sponsored by a slew of different companies for surfing.
(33:55):
Nothing crazy. I wasn't like top notch professional crazy surfer,
but I was doing well enough to, you know, not have to pay for a lot of things. And.
Adam at the time was working for nike so he
was already very invested in that world
of brands and nike at that point was really
gung-ho on we're going to become a part of the extreme
(34:17):
sports world so they were dipping into surfing and skating and nike 2.0 and
all that and so it was kind of like a lovely synchronicity of that because in
our first tours that we were doing to new york they They would let us use the
Nike van and pay for all of our gas for the entire tour because they were like, well,
you're going to all these cool venues and the Nike van is going to be parked out front.
(34:40):
So that's just like instant brand recognition and promotion.
I mean, I can't even tell you the idea of just like getting all of your gas paid on a tour.
We were so green at that point that we were just like, okay, sick. That's cool.
And now I'm like, oh my God, we just didn't realize how good we had it.
So I think because the beginnings of us doing that growing out of the surf world
(35:03):
with those partnerships always felt very organic.
We're very particular about the brands that we wanted to be affiliated with.
Just because growing up even in the surf world and skate world like that stuff
honestly matters more than it should.
But you're indoctrinated to be like, Oh, no, like, not gonna be doing that with that.
(35:24):
But we're gonna look cool if we do it with this. So that became a part of like
what we're already used to in the surf world.
And then because our music made a lot of sense in that world,
and a lot of these surfers were using our music for their videos online.
It kind of instantly combined forces and mentioned that brand Insight.
They were this brand from Australia.
(35:45):
And truly, like if you look back at some of their marketing from 2007 through
like 2013, 15, they were just doing the coolest stuff.
And it was it was a surf brand and skate brand and like music stuff.
But just like so ahead of the curve, really like artistic driven editorial shoots and things like that.
(36:05):
And so when we were able to combine forces with them at the beginning of our
musical career, to the point where, like I said, we kept a car at their warehouse.
And that was my entire wardrobe for years. And I would like do their catalogs
and think that gave us some confidence of like, oh, if this brand thinks that
we're cool enough to be so intertwined with, then let's have this be representative of everything.
(36:28):
So then the sunglasses companies that we would combine with were probably really, really cool.
And I think when you're so in it.
And you kind of you yourself feel really excited about a brand or like a company
and like what they're doing.
And then they are down to have what you're doing be a part of it,
especially when you're so new at what you're doing.
(36:49):
It's really is like quite a big vote of confidence and it sets a standard.
So I think moving on when we were in LA and stuff was always important to us.
There's no way we could have done Love You Down without some of those partnerships.
So it sounds like a lot of those partnerships came through natural networking.
Like you said, your relationship with surf brands or surfers using your music then.
(37:10):
So did you ever have to actually go and pitch yourself to brands that you might
not necessarily have had a relationship with already? Once we started doing the cube shows?
Yeah, I would say we were doing a lot of blind pitching.
Like, you know, I mean, a lot of it was through networking and people I know
in the beginning, say we were playing a surf expo event.
And we knew that this one guy from from this company that we really,
(37:33):
really liked was going to be in the surf expo, we would be like,
we have to make sure that dude comes.
We have to make sure that we give him multiple shots of the whiskey bottle that
whatever restaurant is giving us, make sure he has a good time and then go talk
to him the next day at the surf expo, almost hosting good times for people that
you want to then partner with.
But then I remember in LA when we were doing the love you downs,
(37:57):
a lot of it was as like blind emails and just showing them pictures and recaps
from other Cube shows that we had done.
So like, hey, here's what it looks like at these events. And the pictures were
crazy because the space was so transformed.
And then kind of just following up consistently.
And usually one of those people from those brands would come to the Cube shows
(38:19):
and be really excited about it and be down to do even more the next time.
Another thing that I want to touch base on, You and Adam have been creating
together for how long now? How did you guys meet?
That's such a special relationship to have.
Yeah. And also, I should mention a lot of times when I'm speaking about all
this stuff, it's under the umbrella of Adam and me doing things,
(38:42):
especially, you know, with Love You Down, with the Cube shows,
with like building those brand partnerships.
And Adam is so amazing with that sort of management side of the band.
He's always been with his experience with Nike and stuff. He just he carried
that into it. So he and I grew up.
I mean, it was weird. We grew up. He was in the next neighboring town.
(39:04):
But he worked at the surf shop that I was
surfing for and when he turned 18 he moved in with
a couple guys that lived a few blocks from where I grew up
and that I was already friends with and so he and
I have just we've known each other since we were like 15 16 never were super
close but always kept in touch especially because I remember when he started
playing drums there weren't that many people that I was friends with from my
(39:26):
hometown that surf but also like had a musical side so I remembered always kind
of asking how's how's the drums go going?
Like, what's what are you doing? You're playing with these guys?
What are you guys playing?
And always kind of keeping in touch. And then eventually, it was it was like
right after I started the bastard love child of rock and roll thing.
(39:48):
At the time, I had a roommate that was playing drums with me for a little bit,
Adam came up and he would stay with us and like, hop up on stage and play a song or something.
And then pretty soon after that roommate moved moved away.
I hit up Adam and I had a show in a week or something back home.
And I was like, hey, what if I just come home a week early?
You want to like learn the set list of songs with me and just play the show
(40:11):
with me? And then that was kind of that.
And I'm trying to think that might have been 2009, which is so crazy.
I'm 75 years old. So yeah, it's like 2009-ish, 10-ish was when he and I really started, okay,
we're going to do this band because pretty shortly after he and I started playing
shows together we got like a really sweet lovely reaction from florida.
(40:36):
And the surf industry and it boosted us into, even just for us at the time,
doing that Mickey Avalon tour and then we went to Japan and did an entire tour
because our song was used in this really cool surf video,
and the surf video director and promoters wanted us to come and play every single event premiere,
so we toured Japan off that. That's so cool. Yeah, it was insane.
(40:58):
The stuff that we were getting to do together, and then we started getting managed
by this guy, Rick DeVoe, who was Blink-182's manager.
So we started, we toured Europe with Angels and Airwaves and started to get
to do all this really fun stuff together that really, I think our bond was over
obviously music, but also work ethic.
Like we're both just, I've always been down to do whatever the heck it takes to make stuff happen.
(41:21):
Probably for me, because I always felt like a bit of an imposter with the whole music thing.
So I was like, well, I got to work 20 times harder than anyone else that actually
is like really good at this thing. I mean, it's been a long time that he and
I have been in this partnership.
And I actually, I talked to him like two hours ago, just like talking about
taxes of the LLC, but also talking about like, hey, what have you been working
(41:44):
on that last couple of weeks? Yeah, it's beautiful.
I love him. I love him so much. He's genuinely a brother.
Like I said, that's so special. The next question I want to ask about that,
and then I kind of want to get back to the imposter syndrome thing.
As you guys are coming up, like, did you sit down and say, okay, Okay.
I'm going to handle this part, this part, this part of our career.
And Adam was like, I'm going to handle this part, this part,
this part. Or did that just kind of naturally fall into place?
(42:07):
Yeah, just that stuff kind of naturally falls into place, I would say.
I mean, at least it did for us. I can't say that it just always would.
I think because it had always been sort of, I was always writing the music for it.
And it just, I'd already written so much material when he even started playing with us.
So that was the dynamic instantly of like, okay, well, will all handle the writing of the music.
(42:28):
And he was already so good with a managerial, the logistical.
The making stuff happen.
He could be an incredible music manager for bands if that was the path he wanted
to choose. And he already manages some of our friends bands.
Like I know he's helps out a lot with Sego and Golden Suns. And he's just like
innately good at that stuff.
So it kind of naturally evolved. And then with events, some of that communication
(42:51):
of just like making sure things are happening the way they should.
But I think because both of us have such crazy work ethic, I think if you know
that you're like the partner in what you're doing, as long as you have faith
that both of you are really trying as hard as you can with things,
then sometimes the tasks work themselves out.
That's not to say that there's obviously been, I mean, when you're in a band
(43:13):
with someone for over 10 years, there's definitely points where you're like,
okay, like, let's have a state of the union.
And what do you feel? How are you feeling about what you're you're doing?
How am I feeling about what I'm doing?
I mean, that's like huge part about being in a band, I think,
because it's so unorthodox, and you don't have a boss giving you your whether
or not you get the raise or not, or like telling you like, hey,
you did great this month.
Sometimes it leads to that feeling of like, oh, man, like, I was just doing
(43:35):
all this, but I don't think anyone realizes it.
And I feel underappreciated. And that bounces back and forth between inner band
dynamics sometimes, but something to be aware of. I don't know.
I want to shift here. Like I said, there is so much that I would love to speak
to you about. I'm going to have to ask you to come back for a second interview sometime soon.
But you bring up imposter syndrome, which is another thing that I touch on a
lot on this podcast, because I feel like every creative or successful person
(43:59):
I know has some degree of imposter syndrome.
Syndrome. So I want to know how that has tied into your process,
your career as an artist.
But also, you're an artist that I've always respected for taking risks creatively.
Like whether it's lyrics or sonic decisions, or even I read a lot of your short
stories on your sub stack.
So what is the role that imposter syndrome plays for you as a creative?
(44:22):
I analyze this a lot. My brain is just anytime I'm idle, it's kind of goes into
analyze mode, which is not like recommended.
But I do I I have thought about it a lot. And I usually go back to, I wasn't a kid in chorus.
I wasn't one of those kids that was in bands in high school.
It was always this private thing.
Like I played guitar and I would instantly, once I started to learn chords on the guitar,
(44:44):
I was trying to sing like a little recorder and I would record myself and get
super bummed every time I listened back and try to sing like every single person
that I ever got into musically and be like, maybe if I sing like them, I'll sound good.
And they're like, nope, still don't sound good. So from the time I was like
16 through college, I'd never sang in front of one person.
And I was trying to the entire time that was like my absolute dream was to be able to just sing.
(45:10):
And I remember basically right after graduation of college was the first time
that I shared some music that I had recorded and sang in the same room as like
my roommate who had been my best friend since I was 12. 12.
So I don't know if it comes from being hypercritical of yourself or I've always
felt like I was late to the game with a lot of different things.
So even when I started surfing, I was 12, 13 when I started surfing,
(45:32):
as opposed to most kids in my hometown that were like five when they start surfing.
And then that kickstarted this thing of, well, I have to work 10 times harder.
So I would like surf every crappy day. Then with music, it was like,
finally, when I I just had the courage to show music that I had recorded to
people, I very much treated it like, this is kind of a joke anyways.
(45:53):
Hence the name Bastard Love Child of Rock and Roll.
Because I was like, as long as people don't think I'm taking myself seriously,
then that's okay, because I know that I'm not good enough to take myself seriously.
But then it's kind of a mindfuck when all of a sudden people are like,
you should come tour Japan.
And you're like, but I'm not actually a musician. I just like...
(46:15):
Trying to do it. And I feel like it constantly happens that way, at least for me.
And like, that's why when I first moved to LA, I was just like,
Oh, man, when's everyone here gonna find out that I'm a poser?
I don't know if it's like a terrible thing, because it has
made me really try and work and learn to
become better and more knowledgeable about it
(46:38):
so that maybe I don't feel like such a poser but honestly
i still have moments where i'll run into a friend in echo park or something
who's like an amazing musician and we have some amazing talk about music and
i'll still think to myself well it's so crazy i guess i'm like a musician huh
and just be like this epiphany of like i guess i kind of like actually am and
(46:58):
it's like i've been in a band for now like over.
12, 13 years, and it's still a thing.
And now, like you were saying about writing, then I shifted way more into fiction writing.
And then there's that whole world now, this fear of like, okay,
like, obviously, I'm not like a writer writer, because I haven't been writing
editorial or journalistic pieces since I was 18.
(47:21):
So it kind of, I don't know if it's a personality thing, because I meet people
that don't have imposter syndrome at all. I think I was listening to an interview
with Stephen Jenkins from Third Eye Blind, who is like a really interesting character.
And he, I'm pretty sure it was him, was like, yeah, like, I've never had that.
And I'm just like, wow. Wow. I wonder if it has something to do with what you're
(47:41):
talking about with being self-taught, because I feel like a lot of my friends
that are successful creatively that have it the worst are people who are self-taught.
I think it kind of just gets stuck in your brain that, well,
I didn't get the education.
I didn't go the proper route. So I'm not doing this for real.
This is just me pretending.
I think that's a really good point. Because I've run into a lot of people that
went to Berkeley and seem like they have imposter syndrome.
(48:04):
Yeah. And then the last thing I really want to touch on with the few minutes
we have left here is the getting into fiction writing thing and your use of Substack.
So I know we've talked a lot about your writing in the past.
We've shared our writing with each other.
What made you start going more actively into the fiction writing?
I think I would say first insomnia was like, sadly, like the impetus for it,
(48:28):
because I've had insomnia for like the last 15 years, and on and off,
like I have weeks where it's great, and then weeks where it's terrible.
But
via this blog that I kept for swim.
So I always kept a blog on Tumblr. And it was always just sort of a tour blog
or like what we're doing with cube shows.
(48:50):
But I remember from the get go, always having this desire to not just make it
today, we stopped at the Shell station at 10.
And then we got to the venue, it's like, how do I make this interesting?
So I think that's how I developed at least an attempt at like a writing style.
So I've been writing for a while, a lot lot of positive feedback of like people enjoying them.
(49:10):
So then writing became like a big part of my life in that regard.
But then I remember having these nights of insomnia where at four in the morning
and you haven't slept all night and your brain's in something,
sometimes it can veer into like a weird kind of positive creative slant.
And I started to write these monologues from essentially like character driven monologues.
(49:32):
I mean, anything from like a random guy in Jersey who worked at an automotive
repair store and what he thought about what attracted him to women,
to a woman who was a successful author who had just had plastic surgery.
And it was just all these different random character-driven monologues.
(49:52):
But the idea was so weird to me that I would do that, that I started having
more and more fun with it. That was the start of it.
And then Then I started reading more short story compilations.
And there was an author named Edgar Caret, this author, Lauren Groff,
like some of these short story compilations were really, really fascinating to me.
(50:12):
And I think maybe because it was such low committal in a short story.
Maybe I could write a short story.
And maybe actually, it kind of makes sense with these weird monologues that I've been writing.
Then COVID hit, I'd already been writing a bunch.
But when that happened, it was like, all of a sudden, just had like nothing
but time. And so So that became sort of an escape.
And I found that a lot of the short stories I was writing were driven by dialogue.
(50:35):
So then I kind of figured out that dialogue-driven pieces made sense in script
form. So I was like, okay, so maybe I'll learn script format.
And the script that I've sent you that you're so kind to read,
totally me learning how to use Final Draft, how to even craft a story that's
as long as a feature-length movie and watching YouTube videos.
And that was how that all shaped. I actually just did some edits and the one
(51:00):
I sent you came up and I was like, oh my god, 2020, which I've probably done
like five different drafts since then and like retooled the whole story.
And I was like, I think there's this thing again with like the imposter syndrome
where I've learned to try and be a little bit kinder to myself and more gentle.
Because my first thought was, oh my god, the draft that I sent Rich last time
(51:21):
must have been so ridiculous and made no sense in certain ways with like story
and arc and blah, blah, blah.
And I was just like, you know what, it was part of where you get to.
I read so many short stories I've written like even six months ago or a year
ago, and I kind of, oh god.
This is blabbering and then I fix it.
But I, again, I've been trying to be really gentle with myself and just be like,
(51:46):
okay, it's kind of a never ending thing where you're always going to just keep going.
Well, you have to send me a updated copy of the script then.
I will. But also you've been kind enough to read it, I think twice now.
So I can only ask so much of my friends.
Hell still, I will read it a million times if you want.
I've taken up so much of your time. I appreciate it. Definitely want to have
you come back on because there's There's a lot that we didn't get to today that requires a part two.
(52:10):
But thank you so much for your time today. Is there anything else you want to say in closing?
Like anything you're working on that you want to plug or anything like that?
I would say just thank you so much. I would say like right now,
I'm like, if I was going to plug anything, it would be the sub stack that I
started because that was kind of the last sighting thing that I've gotten into.
And it was kind of so many things tied back to the imposter syndrome.
(52:32):
And I think starting a substack where I'm forcing myself to try and post every
week, whether it's like fiction or just like the story behind lyrics or anything.
There's something about declaring that writing is a part of my life just as much as music.
And here I'm wanting to share it with people is almost another way to be like,
take that imposter syndrome.
(52:53):
So the substack is called Youngest Man in LA.
And I'm also working on an acoustic sort of solo album
of songs that will be a bit more lyrically driven
and my goal is to have it
be under the umbrella of youngest man in la and
maybe just not have to define the lines between
like music and writing so clearly and have it
(53:15):
be like here's this vehicle that is called youngest man in
la this is what i feel inspired by and usually it
draws back to writing whether or not it's songwriting or
fiction or life i'm finding that writing for
the most part is what makes me feel like i'm still following
some path of inspiration that feels sane and not
just chasing the dragon of something well i am grateful
(53:36):
to get to follow that path that you're exploring and
thank you again for coming on and i'll put links
to youngest man alive and swim and everything and the links for this podcast
so yeah dude also want to say thank you so much for all the support over the
years i mean even from the first swim eps to like reading the scripts you've
(53:56):
always just been this like anchor of support that has probably been been more than you even know of.
Something that makes me feel validated in the creative path that I'm choosing.
Because I respect what you do and your work ethic so much that you always making
it clear and being very effusive about your support for us or whatever I'm trying
to do has been a really lovely thing in my life for a really long time.
(54:20):
So thank you. That means a lot.
And it's an honor to get to be a part of that journey with you.
Sweet, dude. Thanks, Rich.
Music.
Music.
(00:10):
Back with another episode of the State of Flux podcast. We are so lucky to be
joined by Chris Hess this month, who is hands down one of the most creative
and talented people I know.
You may know him as the front man for Swim, but he's also a phenomenal writer,
and you can check out his work on Substack under the name Youngest Man in LA.
We get into picking up and moving your life cross country in pursuit of your
art, the beauty of a long-term creative partnership, imposter syndrome,
(00:33):
and a whole lot more. So let's jump into it.
Music.
Are you ready?
I feel like it's been way too long since we caught up anyway.
So it's good to see your face and hear your voice. Yeah, it feels good.
First of all, thank you for having me on. I was so delighted to hear from you
again that it was about this too.
(00:54):
I'm always excited to hear about what you're doing. So it was kind of,
yeah, made my week to hear that,
A, you're doing the podcast and that you would want me to be a part of it.
So thank you. It's an honor to have you on. And just for the listener,
you and I obviously go back probably about a decade or more at this point, right?
I'll never forget the first time I saw you guys perform at Swim was at South by Southwest.
(01:16):
And it was when you guys were working with Rob Abelow. He was like,
Oh, you got to come check out this band, you got to come check out this band.
And it was like the middle of the afternoon. And I wasn't super expecting a
lot because I didn't know anything about you guys.
But then you guys just blew me away to the point where you guys were actually
the first record and one of only a handful of records put out under 24 West.
But yeah, so I think a good place to kind of start this conversation because
(01:39):
I always love the way you guys carry yourselves.
I love how true you guys have always been to your vision of what you wanted
the band to be and, you know, taking risks and everything.
And one of those first risks that you guys took is you're from Florida,
you're from Satellite Beach.
And I guess it was just you and Adam who were the ones that picked up,
but you picked up and moved across the country to L.A. I'd love to hear a little bit more.
(02:02):
I don't know if I've even actually heard the full backstory of the move out
west and what that whole process was like for you guys. Well, thanks for saying that.
At that point, I guess it was the end of 2013.
It was kind of a funny few years because basically Adam and I started a band
together that was just a two piece band. band and it was called Bastard Love Child of Rock and Roll.
It was a completely different animal and it was the first band that I ever started.
(02:26):
I don't know, that was in the vein of when I was obsessed with Death From Above
1979 and the Yeah Yeah Yeahs and that was the first musical endeavor that I had ever started.
I think because of our ties with the surf industry and I was surfing competitively,
we had this nice little spring within that industry and we started touring up
to New York all the time because it was like a straight shot.
(02:48):
And we would stop in like along the way and tour up through Winston-Salem and
all those different spots.
So New York, I would say we'd always play like one show in the city in Lower
East Side, like Lit Lounge or something.
And then we'd play in Brooklyn somewhere.
And we were doing that for a few years. And we were also traveling to Southern
California, but never really LA, to be honest.
(03:10):
LA was like this sort of mystery to us at that time.
And then we got to a point where it felt like we had grown our foundation in
Florida as much as we were going to be able to do.
And then it was like, okay, I guess we moved to New York because that's what's
where we were like building another thing. And we felt comfortable there.
(03:30):
But the situation would have been moving from our hometown in Florida,
where Adam had this really cool house in Merritt Island, where we had a big jam room.
It was like, okay, yeah, let's go surf and then like go practice again and write
for a while and then go surf again.
To then, okay, if we go to, if we moved to New York, then we're going to be
sharing a little room in Williamsburg at our friend's apartment.
(03:53):
We're going to have to figure out where we're going to rent to practice and all that.
And it was just a little daunting. So I think we kept hesitating on that move.
And then we basically evolved into Swim because we honestly just started playing
shows and started writing music as a full band instead of like a two-piece band.
And it just started feeling so much different creatively that it was one of
(04:14):
those points where it was like, let's just be a band. And there's some sorry,
there's so many tangents, because then I start thinking of like us playing with
Spencer and Tom from Sago.
Those guys were also an impetus for us to then start coming to LA.
Okay, hold on, let me let me stay on track. We just for the record,
I'm a big fan of tangents. So as many tangents as you want.
(04:34):
Because it is like there's so many different little streams that combine then
we move to LA, but it's hard to just be like, well, we picked up and we moved
without being like, well, we were playing shows in Southern California, like Orange County.
We would have residencies at Detroit Bar and Costa Mesa.
And there was a company called Insight, and we were sponsored by them.
And they're this really cool Australian surf skate company.
(04:56):
And we would keep a car in Southern California at their warehouse because we
were coming out there so much.
But still, LA was like this weird mystery city that didn't understand it all.
So then we started Swim, put out our first EP, and got on this tour with St. Motel and Hockey.
And it was a two-month tour almost across the entire United States.
(05:19):
And honestly, the LA move was a little bit off the cuff of having Spencer and Tom play.
It was like a revolving cast of Swim at that point. And they were kind of like,
yeah, a spot just opened in the warehouse that we live in.
We had played the warehouse, the Cube, one time. It was like our first LA show we ever did.
Again, playing this warehouse in like this weird part of downtown LA was,
(05:40):
wow, this is all so weird, especially from our little beach town in Florida.
We finished the tour on the West Coast and we had been talking about moving so much.
And I think it was kind of just this thing of it's either now when the spot
opened up or we're just going to go back to Florida and kind of flail around
and see another opportunity.
So we just decided to stay. And I remember we just didn't come home after that
(06:02):
tour. And Adam and I moved into the cube.
We shared a bed because it was just basically like the way that place was set
up was a loft with like four different beds separated by like sheets and cubicle walls.
So we had our little cubicle and shared a bed for like six months.
But that was kind of the genesis of the whole L.A..
That's crazy. I didn't realize that you knew the Segoe guys before you even moved out there.
(06:25):
How did you end up connecting with those guys? So you know, Jesse Rosoff, right?
Know of him. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So Jesse was from Florida.
He saw Adam and I play again as our first band, Bastard Love Child Rock and
Roll. Everyone just called it Blore.
He saw us play at a house show in Gainesville, probably the first year we were even a band.
(06:48):
And he was just this young dude who was trying to get into booking bands.
And so he started booking shows and he built this little little web of bands.
At the time, Sago had a different singer that was called Eyeslip's Eyes.
There's a couple other bands from Utah.
There's this band Reptar from Athens, Georgia.
And so he had these things where, oh, you go play shows there.
(07:11):
Then when those bands come to Florida, you guys play with them.
So we met Spencer and those guys from Sago because I think we did basically
like we traded the shows. They came to Florida.
We did a couple shows with them in Florida, one of our first LA shows,
it was like they were having a cube party.
And so we, yeah, we played that.
(07:31):
And that was the first night I met them, actually. But we ended up trading off
shows for probably the next year or two, to the point where even Spencer and Tom started playing.
In swim as it was like transmogrifying from the
other thing into like a full band those guys would just
hop on little southern california runs with us
(07:52):
and so we started to get to know them more and more i remember i'd have like
these like hour-long conversations with spence when i still lived in florida
about like what they were up to and like what we were up to we just all became
so close and yeah it was just this beautiful bond so then when we ended up doing
that long tour across the the US,
they played with us and it was at that point when they were like,
(08:14):
hey, this warehouse that you played that's crazy and constantly in flux,
there's a little spot open.
What was that like at first when you guys were really trying to find your sound
and then having half of your touring performing band be based across the country?
Did you guys go back and forth their practices or was it just when you were
out there, you came out a day or two early to get some jams in and then go?
(08:36):
I look back now at that state of the band and it being this thing where it was a full revolving door.
Like if we were in Florida, we were playing with a number of different people
depending on who was available to step in for bass and guitar.
And then if we were on the West Coast, it was whoever was available out there.
So usually we'd fly out a day early, get one jam in, sometimes not even have time for that.
(09:01):
So sometimes it would just be if we get a soundcheck for the show,
maybe we could go over anything that you have questions on and then you just jump into the show.
I was just getting anxiety just remembering that thing. I don't know.
It was so crazy, but it was so fun.
I remember feeling like, well, every song has all these different personalities
depending on who's playing the guitar, who's playing the bass on it.
(09:23):
Even if it's the same part.
The way they add their own little personality to it, that was really cool as
stressful as it could be.
It was just like, wow, this is truly so many different shades.
That's so cool. It speaks to the talent of the guys in Segoe too,
that they could pick it up like that.
Did you find yourself more attracted to the personality of the songs when it
(09:48):
was with Spencer and Tom or was it like you loved it equally,
whether it was the people you were playing with in Florida, or if it was the Segoe guys.
I would say, I mean, well, the funny thing is Tom is a drummer and he learned,
he could play bass, but he'd never played bass until he did that tour with us
and then picked up the bass because Tom is a freakishly talented human being as is Spencer.
(10:12):
And I will say like some of my favorite iterations of those songs and like playing
those shows was for sure with them.
And Spencer, as you know, he's one of my favorite guitarists.
Spencer is in my top one to two guitarists of my life. And that's with anybody.
That's like, yeah, Mark Knopfler, yes, and then Spencer.
(10:35):
Wow. Yeah, no, he's a freak. And he's just the most individually creative player.
I don't know. I've never met a mind that wraps around music quite in the way
that he does. was and it comes out and is playing in such a cool avant style.
What he would add to the swim songs was just inimitable for sure.
(11:00):
That's not to say I had, I had some friends that would play with us from Florida
that did their own thing.
And it was like, oh, whoa, that's so cool. Because now it's taking on this like
different surfy element.
Whereas like, when Spencer plays, it'd be a little more like jazz,
what the hell is even happening, but it's amazing element. It was always cool,
depending on who was playing.
(11:20):
But yeah, I just love Spencer and Tom so much.
And we started becoming so close. And there was a couple there was a minute
there were like, they were just kind of a part of the band. I remember going
to see you guys when I was out in LA one time and Spencer was playing with you.
And I was like, wait a minute, isn't that the guy from Segoe?
And I didn't really at the time pick up on the fact that you guys were so close.
(11:44):
I just knew that you both worked with Rob. You brought up a couple of times
here, something that I find really important.
And I've mentioned this a couple of times in the podcast has come up with a
couple of different guests.
I credit my work ethic and the things I've built in my career to the Long Island music scene.
And I really think that the lessons you kind of learn and the friendships that
(12:04):
you make and the partnerships that you make on a local music scene are so important
as an artist, but also just as a person.
So we've touched a little bit on the cue, but before we even get into that.
Move to L.A., obviously it's this big city that was a mystery to you before you moved there.
What were the things that you really were attracted to about L.A.?
(12:25):
And what were the things, contrastly, that you loved about Satellite Beach and
that you kind of missed and that you think make that local scene special?
Well, I'll start with the Florida element of it. It's funny because I wouldn't say...
That Satellite Beach itself was the scene that we were a part of.
But I think Florida in general had a scene because again, when I started the
(12:51):
first band, I was still living in Jacksonville where I went to college.
So there was this dual hometown feel where Jacksonville almost felt like a home
to us as much as Satellite Beach did.
Within, I guess, like six months after I started playing music,
we got this tour with Mickey Avalon.
(13:13):
And it was like these three shows around Florida or something.
It's funny because those shows opened up these portals of scenes around Florida
for us that started these friendships with people that I'm like,
to this day, some of my best friends in the world are from this small town in Tampa,
Indian Rocks Beach, Tampa, Who I only know because they happen to be raging
(13:37):
drunk at the Mickey Avalon show in Orlando.
We built these this whole thing. So then that sprouted this Florida thing where
it honestly felt like every weekend, we just toured around Florida.
That was our life was just basically he hit Tampa, Orlando, Miami, hometown.
(13:57):
Town obviously it's not like every week but it was
just frequently touring around florida and building
kind of like a florida home base i
would say like satellite beach growing up i
wouldn't say there was much of a scene that i was tapped
into other than like some of the older guys that
played at the youth group stuff i would go to you know
(14:19):
when i was like 15 everybody went to youth group group
after school on Mondays and there'd be like two guys that played
guitar and sang and some a lot of it was like Oasis covers
but also they were like really good and I'd
be like oh you guys are playing at Matt's Tropical Grill I'll come and sneak
in and watch you and usually like someone would come up to me and be like hey
(14:40):
you you you have to be 21 like you have to go but that was the Genesis of being
up becoming obsessed with music for me was not necessarily like finding some
local scene where I could go to shows all the time,
but just literally just any beach bar where some guy was playing guitar and
singing and had a cool voice.
(15:00):
I was so one of those kids that was probably just like annoying the crap out
of this guy who was just getting paid 10 bucks an hour to sing old drunk couples.
But that was it for me. And not to say there wasn't a little bit of like a Melbourne
scene because there were, I just wasn't really privy to it as like a little
little beach surfer kid.
But I don't know, as far as the contrast between.
Florida scene to LA, I would say the LA thing was just hyper focused,
(15:25):
maybe to find like the brethren and sister of bands that you want to create a scene with.
It wasn't necessarily like we could do that just in satellite.
But we did do that throughout Florida, then we moved to LA.
And it's funny, because it's just so endless, even though it's all pretty much
hyper focused with an Echo Park and Silver Lake and like the surrounding area,
(15:48):
you know, I guess it was LA was just so new at that time for us again,
because we had we had done all of our like big city shows in New York.
And so LA was kind of, we got really lucky into moving into the cube.
I think that was the biggest benefit and allure of Los Angeles was the fact
that we moved into a creative hub, It was already growing.
(16:11):
And the guys from Sago, even though they weren't even Sago when we moved in,
Eyes, Lips, Eyes had kind of just dissolved.
And Spencer at that time was kind of figuring out what he wanted to do.
It was just like a whole new enchilada.
And do you think that the goals and the vibe of the bands that you were friends
with and playing with in Florida was different than in LA?
(16:32):
Did LA feel like it was more out to quote unquote, make it than the Florida
band? Maybe in Florida, it's a little more specific to each band as far as how they take it.
Because there's definitely a lot of bands we were playing shows with in Florida
who were super dedicated and wanted to build a career.
(16:52):
And then also bands that we would play with that the singer was a buddy of mine
who had his tiling company and getting to play a show once a month was sick.
Like, bruh, that's all I need. So it was a bit mixed in Florida.
I guess in L.A., probably, yeah, most likely if you're in L.A.,
(17:12):
you're starting the band thing, your eyes are set on the prize a bit more. But even with L.A..
I would say it's not as maybe off-putting as what one might think.
Because I think there's a thing about LA where like, yes, everyone's here to quote unquote make it.
But even within the music world here, I noticed things where when I first moved here,
(17:36):
if I went to certain places in Hollywood and tried to, I don't know,
converse with musicians and artists there, the vibe was so different.
And it was sort of you're sitting in the middle of a bar and
then someone's just like oh yeah i just dropped this video here watch
it right here in this bar and then they walk away so you
(17:57):
can watch the video and they're just talking and like that sort of thing always
kind of threw me off in in a way whereas echo park it was a little more we're
just trying to do our thing and do it in a tactful way that was my that's very
generalized but that was what i noticed the first few years of being in LA.
There's a lot of different vibes musically, even within this one city.
(18:20):
I wonder if this is a case too, that the Cube might have shielded you guys from
that cliche, LA, everybody's looking
over your shoulder to see who's more worthwhile for them to talk to.
One of the things I always thought was so cool about it was you guys had your
own little creative enclave there.
It was very insular, even if it was open-minded, and a lot of people like to
come see shows there and everything, but it was also very self-contained and supportive.
(18:43):
Where I wonder if that maybe helped you guys feel a little bit more at ease
to explore and do what you wanted to do, even living in a city where it feels
like everybody's looking to be a big star. Absolutely.
I mean, I can't express enough how lucky I feel that the cube was where we moved
into and the group of friends surrounding that place was the scene that we were adopted into.
(19:10):
Because speaking in some cliches.
LA, I think is the saying that I hear sometimes that I think is so true is like,
it's a giant mirror in the way that like, if you're out here, and you're lonely,
because you just moved out here, and you can't and you feel like,
I don't know, am I just another person out here now trying to make it in a mind? Am I on my own?
(19:32):
Are the people I talked to kind of plastic?
If you're feeling that way, then
LA is just going to be this giant mirror that shines that back on you.
But you get lucky and you move
into the place where we moved and it was like this creative hub
of actually genuine sweet people that are really driven then that was kind of
(19:55):
the mirror that was shining back on us like the first couple years so it was
super motivating and yeah i got so lucky i had even friends outside of the cube
that were just these amazing visual artists that i would go art shows with.
And even that, I remember getting
a flyer for a Fela Kuti-themed dance night at the Echo on a Tuesday.
(20:17):
And that just blowing my mind so much that I kept the flyer as just a reminder
that, hey, you live in this place where anything is possible.
Because coming from Satellite Beach on a Tuesday night to think that I could
go find some Afrobeat themed dance party was just insane, you know?
(20:39):
Yeah. And when you guys moved, would you say your motivation,
because you talked about also thinking about moving to New York,
the people that you had found in LA and Spencer and Tom,
or was it more the allure of LA where you're like, kind of want to take this
thing to the next level? It's got to be a major city.
LA seems like a great place to do I think the allure was the city aspect a little bit.
(21:00):
Yeah, I think at that point, we had felt like we've proven ourselves in Florida.
We've made a name for ourselves there.
And then there's that little wonder that you have, like, what if we do that?
What, how's that going to turn out? Because you never know. It's so funny how
as you do things creatively, I feel like it's always this giant question mark
and then you do it and then you feel like, of course, like we could do that then.
(21:25):
And then you, the next thing is like a giant question mark and you doubt yourself
and you feel like an imposter and then you do something and you're like,
oh, okay, cool. So I did that.
Of course I could do that. But yeah, I mean, we wanted to go to a big city and
just be around that kind of energy all the time.
I wanted to be able to go see shows on a Monday night at residency nights and
(21:45):
be blown away by bands throughout the week, which was, again, like such a cool part.
I think being with Spencer and Tom and the Cube was more of just a really lovely
guiding hand, but we definitely were very motivated by what could happen in
a big city and being around that many amazing bands.
(22:06):
How do you A, get inspired by, but then also can you be something that inspires those bands?
I just want to take a second here because I feel like the questions that I'm
asking you are kind of leading where it's like, oh, little Florida, big LA.
So I just I just want to take a moment to say that some of the bands that you
played with in Florida that you've introduced me to are phenomenal.
(22:26):
Sunday River, Fay Roy, all those bands. I love those bands.
So I just want to make it clear that I'm not trying to paint Florida as this
little engine that could sort of a thing either. Yeah.
Something I've thought about a lot, even the last, I don't know,
five years or something is that idea that even you have to go to a big city to go to the next step,
which I think as a younger band you have this thought that is
(22:49):
what you have to do and i realize that it's
not what you have to do it's an option and it's like
something that maybe if you feel you've exhausted what you can do where you
are and you're hungry for something different and more then it's amazing but
yeah there's so many bands that are like amazing right that are from little
towns that get discovered and blow up and you're like oh well they didn't have
(23:11):
to move to New York or LA to like do that.
So I don't think that it's even something that you have to do or is necessary.
And actually, sometimes can be I was talking about this with my friend Jake
from Space Face, the idea that you do have to move to LA.
But then also you're putting yourself in a place where you're almost bound to
(23:31):
get overlooked after a couple good things you do, because there's constantly
people doing amazing things.
It's that weird thing where it's like, it's good. but then it also can be adversely
effective for you because you're now just like.
In the cesspool amazing shit happening all the
time whereas if you stayed in florida i don't
(23:52):
know maybe it's more likely that a booking agent is
going to be like wait that's a cool story i
also think that same thing that you're talking about in terms of
being one of a million bands in la versus being on a smaller scene it could
also be prohibitive creatively because you're in a city where you're seeing
you know this band just made it and this is what they sound like and And you're
(24:16):
having more interaction with quote unquote industry people who are saying,
this is what we're looking for.
So you might be more tempted to go in that direction. Whereas if you're kind
of in your world and you found the right group of people who are inspiring you
to be unique and be yourself, and they're doing the same thing.
So you're still getting that competitive inspiration.
You might be better off in a smaller town, a smaller city, especially nowadays
(24:40):
when you're looking at it where A&Rs, it used to be you had to go to LA or New
York because that's where A&Rs were going to bars and trying to find bands,
but now they're all just looking at Spotify numbers and Instagram anyway, right?
So you could probably have a great start more than ever in a small town.
Yeah, I might have shifted towards that a little bit more.
(25:01):
It's hard to say if I've shifted towards that because I felt like the scene
got truncated here after COVID and maybe I haven't put in the effort to re-inject
myself myself into what scene has now become of East LA.
I know that for a time after COVID, everything just got halted.
It's been over a year now since.
It was felt like this scene that we had been accumulating and
(25:24):
like with i'm sure we'll talk about but love you down was sort
of a signifier of us trying to really like solidify and
galvanize that scene and then to have
like two years where it just was like no scene at all just physically impossible
to have a scene i've gone more along your train of thought there yeah maybe
it is better to formulate your story and your your thing without the influence
(25:48):
of it but not to get too too philosophical with it.
But at the same time now with TikTok and stuff, you just see everything that
way so much that is everyone just being inundated with the same exact inspirations, quote unquote,
unless they're really proactive about being a part of their scene in their hometown, which takes work.
Putting that on myself too. I used to put in a lot of work when I first moved
(26:11):
to LA to figure out what the scene was and how to be a part of it.
COVID, I will say, They definitely messed with that routine.
You mentioned Love You Down. When I think of LA, I really thought of you and
Adam as you guys really had a great finger on the pulse of everything.
And you guys are both so intelligent and creative. And you had such great network
(26:31):
that that was my love of LA.
You guys started out during shows, DIY shows at The Cube.
Maybe you could walk us through what those shows were like. and then going up
to Love You Down, which was this multi-day festival at respected venues in LA.
So the Cube shows became a little bit more of like a habitual practice to throw
(26:55):
a Cube show like once every, I don't know, maybe four months or something.
And also bred out of necessity because moving to LA,
there was a, I remember that first year, the idea of acquiring Liz Garrow's
email from The Echo was like this golden thing. I don't know how you're going to get that email.
And then if you get the email from someone and then you're able to be like,
(27:18):
hey, got this email through so-and-so just reaching out about booking because we just moved here.
Then it's like, what are the chances that they're going to email you back?
So during that time where you weren't getting an email back from venues,
it was like, okay, like let's create something of our own.
And so thankful again for the cube as a space that allotted us the ability to cultivate that.
(27:42):
So we would basically plan these shows, we book these shows,
it'd be like usually us and Sego, then another couple bands,
but it would always be us two.
And the way the warehouse was, every time we did a show, we would transform
the space. So we had this roll of Mylar that's like miles long,
and it essentially is like this, you know, reflective psychedelic material.
(28:06):
And we would spend, it would spend like a solid week and a half or two just
to, you know, on ladders hanging on the Mylar, stealing crates from the UPS
station nearby to build a stage.
And then like figuring out
compiling enough speakers from different people's raggedy
PAs to get a PA for the night and
(28:29):
I mean that was like the truest sense of me learning like what a DIY setup was
because every single thing was just as silly as it could be built but then eventually
looked incredible and the entire space was transformed at that time at the cube
there was an artist named Joe Holiday,
(28:49):
who's to this day, one of the most wildly genius off kilter artists I've ever
come in contact with, he would build out these entire wooden home installations within the warehouse.
So then people could like walk through these weird, almost like horror scene kind of things.
But then it's, it's so hard to describe without it sounding discombobulated.
(29:12):
But there was a time where it was just every facet of it was getting built from
the ground up in some some really weird left-to-center way to combine to these
nights where then people would come to the show and I think no matter what they
could tell that they weren't just walking into another warehouse show.
(29:32):
Whereas a couple of bands basically set up a PA and we're like,
okay, now we're going to play some songs and try to charge five bucks for some
PBRs and have a good night.
It was pretty obvious that some time and love had been put into every one of
these shows to where like,
oh, this is an experience that I'm going to remember as opposed to just another
show or just another after hours place where it's a skeezy vibe and people are
(29:55):
just trying to do what they do in dark corners of the places.
But I think all in all, just the feel of these shows were really just like infused
with a lot of care and love.
And I think people felt that. And so then that grew into.
Honestly, like these venues, I think got wind of like, oh, so now this,
(30:17):
this band is throwing these shows at the warehouse and hundreds of people are
showing up and like the pictures from it look insane.
And so then all of a sudden we could get that email back from those venues and
eventually led to us getting a residency at the Echo, which that to me,
like I think moving to LA and going to residencies.
And honestly, the Echo was the first place I ever went to a show in LA and has
(30:41):
always been like this somewhat of like a holy ground for me as far as like indie venue in Los Angeles.
So then us getting offered a residency after playing
a couple opening slots there will forever be like this
really seminal point in my career and we
kind of treated it the same as the cube shows so we decorated
the whole place the whole day before we would play and they were crazy it was
(31:04):
like really really lovely residency and got moved into the echo plex at one
point because the crowd was so big and it was just like it really seemed to
be working i think through that especially especially being that we booked every
Monday of that residency,
all of a sudden you're scouring for bands that you've played with.
You're booking three different bands every Monday.
(31:25):
So now you have these contacts and you see these bands and you're like,
I love the way that band sounded. I love the vibe of this band.
And then it was, okay, now we're able to play our own headlining show in LA.
And that was just like, holy crap, we're going to play the Echo.
It's going to be our show. We're going to charge for tickets.
Again, it was like that milestone moment. And we probably did that like there
(31:46):
at the Satellite and then also at the Bootleg,
these like really amazing indie venues around the east side of LA and noticed
the feeling of I love doing these headlining shows,
but I feel almost cheated out of what it could be because we only get to have
like two opening bands. How do we make this different for people?
After your third headline show in LA, you're kind of like, well,
(32:08):
how do we make it interesting for people to want to keep coming back?
And I just had the idea of what if instead of it being like two opening bands,
what if we build a whole night and try to get as many of the bands that we love
playing with in LA to be a part of the night?
And so that was the genesis of Love You Down. I remember something that I think
(32:29):
you guys kind of carried over from the Cube shows to the first of Residency
and then Love You Down is that kind of immersive experience as well.
Like you guys always had visual artists that would come and do installations.
And I even remember you guys had set for a flower company to set up the arrangements
on the stage to look like the Beverly Hills EP cover and everything.
And I remember just being so impressed that you were smart enough even then
(32:52):
as independent independent artists to think, oh, well, why don't we try to get
a budget from, I think we ended up working with bands in town.
And that's another thing that I wanted to talk to you about was you guys were
always so good about managing your career in a way that would take advantage
of opportunities like brand partnerships and that sort of a thing.
But it was never they're doing this because somebody's paying them to do it.
(33:15):
It was we're doing what we're doing.
You could get on board or we're going to find somebody else.
That takes a certain degree of authenticity in in the face of maybe losing opportunities,
that just feels like it would take so much self-confidence.
So I'm wondering, like, how did
you guys stay so strong in that and always being authentic to yourself?
And, you know, is it just a lot of self-confidence or what was it?
(33:35):
The initial partnerships that came from when we first started playing music
and making those brand partnerships felt so organic because the time of starting
playing music together,
Adam and I, I was surfing competitively.
So I was sponsored by a slew of different companies for surfing.
(33:55):
Nothing crazy. I wasn't like top notch professional crazy surfer,
but I was doing well enough to, you know, not have to pay for a lot of things. And.
Adam at the time was working for nike so he
was already very invested in that world
of brands and nike at that point was really
gung-ho on we're going to become a part of the extreme
(34:17):
sports world so they were dipping into surfing and skating and nike 2.0 and
all that and so it was kind of like a lovely synchronicity of that because in
our first tours that we were doing to new york they They would let us use the
Nike van and pay for all of our gas for the entire tour because they were like, well,
you're going to all these cool venues and the Nike van is going to be parked out front.
(34:40):
So that's just like instant brand recognition and promotion.
I mean, I can't even tell you the idea of just like getting all of your gas paid on a tour.
We were so green at that point that we were just like, okay, sick. That's cool.
And now I'm like, oh my God, we just didn't realize how good we had it.
So I think because the beginnings of us doing that growing out of the surf world
(35:03):
with those partnerships always felt very organic.
We're very particular about the brands that we wanted to be affiliated with.
Just because growing up even in the surf world and skate world like that stuff
honestly matters more than it should.
But you're indoctrinated to be like, Oh, no, like, not gonna be doing that with that.
(35:24):
But we're gonna look cool if we do it with this. So that became a part of like
what we're already used to in the surf world.
And then because our music made a lot of sense in that world,
and a lot of these surfers were using our music for their videos online.
It kind of instantly combined forces and mentioned that brand Insight.
They were this brand from Australia.
(35:45):
And truly, like if you look back at some of their marketing from 2007 through
like 2013, 15, they were just doing the coolest stuff.
And it was it was a surf brand and skate brand and like music stuff.
But just like so ahead of the curve, really like artistic driven editorial shoots and things like that.
(36:05):
And so when we were able to combine forces with them at the beginning of our
musical career, to the point where, like I said, we kept a car at their warehouse.
And that was my entire wardrobe for years. And I would like do their catalogs
and think that gave us some confidence of like, oh, if this brand thinks that
we're cool enough to be so intertwined with, then let's have this be representative of everything.
(36:28):
So then the sunglasses companies that we would combine with were probably really, really cool.
And I think when you're so in it.
And you kind of you yourself feel really excited about a brand or like a company
and like what they're doing.
And then they are down to have what you're doing be a part of it,
especially when you're so new at what you're doing.
(36:49):
It's really is like quite a big vote of confidence and it sets a standard.
So I think moving on when we were in LA and stuff was always important to us.
There's no way we could have done Love You Down without some of those partnerships.
So it sounds like a lot of those partnerships came through natural networking.
Like you said, your relationship with surf brands or surfers using your music then.
(37:10):
So did you ever have to actually go and pitch yourself to brands that you might
not necessarily have had a relationship with already? Once we started doing the cube shows?
Yeah, I would say we were doing a lot of blind pitching.
Like, you know, I mean, a lot of it was through networking and people I know
in the beginning, say we were playing a surf expo event.
And we knew that this one guy from from this company that we really,
(37:33):
really liked was going to be in the surf expo, we would be like,
we have to make sure that dude comes.
We have to make sure that we give him multiple shots of the whiskey bottle that
whatever restaurant is giving us, make sure he has a good time and then go talk
to him the next day at the surf expo, almost hosting good times for people that
you want to then partner with.
But then I remember in LA when we were doing the love you downs,
(37:57):
a lot of it was as like blind emails and just showing them pictures and recaps
from other Cube shows that we had done.
So like, hey, here's what it looks like at these events. And the pictures were
crazy because the space was so transformed.
And then kind of just following up consistently.
And usually one of those people from those brands would come to the Cube shows
(38:19):
and be really excited about it and be down to do even more the next time.
Another thing that I want to touch base on, You and Adam have been creating
together for how long now? How did you guys meet?
That's such a special relationship to have.
Yeah. And also, I should mention a lot of times when I'm speaking about all
this stuff, it's under the umbrella of Adam and me doing things,
(38:42):
especially, you know, with Love You Down, with the Cube shows,
with like building those brand partnerships.
And Adam is so amazing with that sort of management side of the band.
He's always been with his experience with Nike and stuff. He just he carried
that into it. So he and I grew up.
I mean, it was weird. We grew up. He was in the next neighboring town.
(39:04):
But he worked at the surf shop that I was
surfing for and when he turned 18 he moved in with
a couple guys that lived a few blocks from where I grew up
and that I was already friends with and so he and
I have just we've known each other since we were like 15 16 never were super
close but always kept in touch especially because I remember when he started
playing drums there weren't that many people that I was friends with from my
(39:26):
hometown that surf but also like had a musical side so I remembered always kind
of asking how's how's the drums go going?
Like, what's what are you doing? You're playing with these guys?
What are you guys playing?
And always kind of keeping in touch. And then eventually, it was it was like
right after I started the bastard love child of rock and roll thing.
(39:48):
At the time, I had a roommate that was playing drums with me for a little bit,
Adam came up and he would stay with us and like, hop up on stage and play a song or something.
And then pretty soon after that roommate moved moved away.
I hit up Adam and I had a show in a week or something back home.
And I was like, hey, what if I just come home a week early?
You want to like learn the set list of songs with me and just play the show
(40:11):
with me? And then that was kind of that.
And I'm trying to think that might have been 2009, which is so crazy.
I'm 75 years old. So yeah, it's like 2009-ish, 10-ish was when he and I really started, okay,
we're going to do this band because pretty shortly after he and I started playing
shows together we got like a really sweet lovely reaction from florida.
(40:36):
And the surf industry and it boosted us into, even just for us at the time,
doing that Mickey Avalon tour and then we went to Japan and did an entire tour
because our song was used in this really cool surf video,
and the surf video director and promoters wanted us to come and play every single event premiere,
so we toured Japan off that. That's so cool. Yeah, it was insane.
(40:58):
The stuff that we were getting to do together, and then we started getting managed
by this guy, Rick DeVoe, who was Blink-182's manager.
So we started, we toured Europe with Angels and Airwaves and started to get
to do all this really fun stuff together that really, I think our bond was over
obviously music, but also work ethic.
Like we're both just, I've always been down to do whatever the heck it takes to make stuff happen.
(41:21):
Probably for me, because I always felt like a bit of an imposter with the whole music thing.
So I was like, well, I got to work 20 times harder than anyone else that actually
is like really good at this thing. I mean, it's been a long time that he and
I have been in this partnership.
And I actually, I talked to him like two hours ago, just like talking about
taxes of the LLC, but also talking about like, hey, what have you been working
(41:44):
on that last couple of weeks? Yeah, it's beautiful.
I love him. I love him so much. He's genuinely a brother.
Like I said, that's so special. The next question I want to ask about that,
and then I kind of want to get back to the imposter syndrome thing.
As you guys are coming up, like, did you sit down and say, okay, Okay.
I'm going to handle this part, this part, this part of our career.
And Adam was like, I'm going to handle this part, this part,
this part. Or did that just kind of naturally fall into place?
(42:07):
Yeah, just that stuff kind of naturally falls into place, I would say.
I mean, at least it did for us. I can't say that it just always would.
I think because it had always been sort of, I was always writing the music for it.
And it just, I'd already written so much material when he even started playing with us.
So that was the dynamic instantly of like, okay, well, will all handle the writing of the music.
(42:28):
And he was already so good with a managerial, the logistical.
The making stuff happen.
He could be an incredible music manager for bands if that was the path he wanted
to choose. And he already manages some of our friends bands.
Like I know he's helps out a lot with Sego and Golden Suns. And he's just like
innately good at that stuff.
So it kind of naturally evolved. And then with events, some of that communication
(42:51):
of just like making sure things are happening the way they should.
But I think because both of us have such crazy work ethic, I think if you know
that you're like the partner in what you're doing, as long as you have faith
that both of you are really trying as hard as you can with things,
then sometimes the tasks work themselves out.
That's not to say that there's obviously been, I mean, when you're in a band
(43:13):
with someone for over 10 years, there's definitely points where you're like,
okay, like, let's have a state of the union.
And what do you feel? How are you feeling about what you're you're doing?
How am I feeling about what I'm doing?
I mean, that's like huge part about being in a band, I think,
because it's so unorthodox, and you don't have a boss giving you your whether
or not you get the raise or not, or like telling you like, hey,
you did great this month.
Sometimes it leads to that feeling of like, oh, man, like, I was just doing
(43:35):
all this, but I don't think anyone realizes it.
And I feel underappreciated. And that bounces back and forth between inner band
dynamics sometimes, but something to be aware of. I don't know.
I want to shift here. Like I said, there is so much that I would love to speak
to you about. I'm going to have to ask you to come back for a second interview sometime soon.
But you bring up imposter syndrome, which is another thing that I touch on a
lot on this podcast, because I feel like every creative or successful person
(43:59):
I know has some degree of imposter syndrome.
Syndrome. So I want to know how that has tied into your process,
your career as an artist.
But also, you're an artist that I've always respected for taking risks creatively.
Like whether it's lyrics or sonic decisions, or even I read a lot of your short
stories on your sub stack.
So what is the role that imposter syndrome plays for you as a creative?
(44:22):
I analyze this a lot. My brain is just anytime I'm idle, it's kind of goes into
analyze mode, which is not like recommended.
But I do I I have thought about it a lot. And I usually go back to, I wasn't a kid in chorus.
I wasn't one of those kids that was in bands in high school.
It was always this private thing.
Like I played guitar and I would instantly, once I started to learn chords on the guitar,
(44:44):
I was trying to sing like a little recorder and I would record myself and get
super bummed every time I listened back and try to sing like every single person
that I ever got into musically and be like, maybe if I sing like them, I'll sound good.
And they're like, nope, still don't sound good. So from the time I was like
16 through college, I'd never sang in front of one person.
And I was trying to the entire time that was like my absolute dream was to be able to just sing.
(45:10):
And I remember basically right after graduation of college was the first time
that I shared some music that I had recorded and sang in the same room as like
my roommate who had been my best friend since I was 12. 12.
So I don't know if it comes from being hypercritical of yourself or I've always
felt like I was late to the game with a lot of different things.
So even when I started surfing, I was 12, 13 when I started surfing,
(45:32):
as opposed to most kids in my hometown that were like five when they start surfing.
And then that kickstarted this thing of, well, I have to work 10 times harder.
So I would like surf every crappy day. Then with music, it was like,
finally, when I I just had the courage to show music that I had recorded to
people, I very much treated it like, this is kind of a joke anyways.
(45:53):
Hence the name Bastard Love Child of Rock and Roll.
Because I was like, as long as people don't think I'm taking myself seriously,
then that's okay, because I know that I'm not good enough to take myself seriously.
But then it's kind of a mindfuck when all of a sudden people are like,
you should come tour Japan.
And you're like, but I'm not actually a musician. I just like...
(46:15):
Trying to do it. And I feel like it constantly happens that way, at least for me.
And like, that's why when I first moved to LA, I was just like,
Oh, man, when's everyone here gonna find out that I'm a poser?
I don't know if it's like a terrible thing, because it has
made me really try and work and learn to
become better and more knowledgeable about it
(46:38):
so that maybe I don't feel like such a poser but honestly
i still have moments where i'll run into a friend in echo park or something
who's like an amazing musician and we have some amazing talk about music and
i'll still think to myself well it's so crazy i guess i'm like a musician huh
and just be like this epiphany of like i guess i kind of like actually am and
(46:58):
it's like i've been in a band for now like over.
12, 13 years, and it's still a thing.
And now, like you were saying about writing, then I shifted way more into fiction writing.
And then there's that whole world now, this fear of like, okay,
like, obviously, I'm not like a writer writer, because I haven't been writing
editorial or journalistic pieces since I was 18.
(47:21):
So it kind of, I don't know if it's a personality thing, because I meet people
that don't have imposter syndrome at all. I think I was listening to an interview
with Stephen Jenkins from Third Eye Blind, who is like a really interesting character.
And he, I'm pretty sure it was him, was like, yeah, like, I've never had that.
And I'm just like, wow. Wow. I wonder if it has something to do with what you're
(47:41):
talking about with being self-taught, because I feel like a lot of my friends
that are successful creatively that have it the worst are people who are self-taught.
I think it kind of just gets stuck in your brain that, well,
I didn't get the education.
I didn't go the proper route. So I'm not doing this for real.
This is just me pretending.
I think that's a really good point. Because I've run into a lot of people that
went to Berkeley and seem like they have imposter syndrome.
(48:04):
Yeah. And then the last thing I really want to touch on with the few minutes
we have left here is the getting into fiction writing thing and your use of Substack.
So I know we've talked a lot about your writing in the past.
We've shared our writing with each other.
What made you start going more actively into the fiction writing?
I think I would say first insomnia was like, sadly, like the impetus for it,
(48:28):
because I've had insomnia for like the last 15 years, and on and off,
like I have weeks where it's great, and then weeks where it's terrible.
But
via this blog that I kept for swim.
So I always kept a blog on Tumblr. And it was always just sort of a tour blog
or like what we're doing with cube shows.
(48:50):
But I remember from the get go, always having this desire to not just make it
today, we stopped at the Shell station at 10.
And then we got to the venue, it's like, how do I make this interesting?
So I think that's how I developed at least an attempt at like a writing style.
So I've been writing for a while, a lot lot of positive feedback of like people enjoying them.
(49:10):
So then writing became like a big part of my life in that regard.
But then I remember having these nights of insomnia where at four in the morning
and you haven't slept all night and your brain's in something,
sometimes it can veer into like a weird kind of positive creative slant.
And I started to write these monologues from essentially like character driven monologues.
(49:32):
I mean, anything from like a random guy in Jersey who worked at an automotive
repair store and what he thought about what attracted him to women,
to a woman who was a successful author who had just had plastic surgery.
And it was just all these different random character-driven monologues.
(49:52):
But the idea was so weird to me that I would do that, that I started having
more and more fun with it. That was the start of it.
And then Then I started reading more short story compilations.
And there was an author named Edgar Caret, this author, Lauren Groff,
like some of these short story compilations were really, really fascinating to me.
(50:12):
And I think maybe because it was such low committal in a short story.
Maybe I could write a short story.
And maybe actually, it kind of makes sense with these weird monologues that I've been writing.
Then COVID hit, I'd already been writing a bunch.
But when that happened, it was like, all of a sudden, just had like nothing
but time. And so So that became sort of an escape.
And I found that a lot of the short stories I was writing were driven by dialogue.
(50:35):
So then I kind of figured out that dialogue-driven pieces made sense in script
form. So I was like, okay, so maybe I'll learn script format.
And the script that I've sent you that you're so kind to read,
totally me learning how to use Final Draft, how to even craft a story that's
as long as a feature-length movie and watching YouTube videos.
And that was how that all shaped. I actually just did some edits and the one
(51:00):
I sent you came up and I was like, oh my god, 2020, which I've probably done
like five different drafts since then and like retooled the whole story.
And I was like, I think there's this thing again with like the imposter syndrome
where I've learned to try and be a little bit kinder to myself and more gentle.
Because my first thought was, oh my god, the draft that I sent Rich last time
(51:21):
must have been so ridiculous and made no sense in certain ways with like story
and arc and blah, blah, blah.
And I was just like, you know what, it was part of where you get to.
I read so many short stories I've written like even six months ago or a year
ago, and I kind of, oh god.
This is blabbering and then I fix it.
But I, again, I've been trying to be really gentle with myself and just be like,
(51:46):
okay, it's kind of a never ending thing where you're always going to just keep going.
Well, you have to send me a updated copy of the script then.
I will. But also you've been kind enough to read it, I think twice now.
So I can only ask so much of my friends.
Hell still, I will read it a million times if you want.
I've taken up so much of your time. I appreciate it. Definitely want to have
you come back on because there's There's a lot that we didn't get to today that requires a part two.
(52:10):
But thank you so much for your time today. Is there anything else you want to say in closing?
Like anything you're working on that you want to plug or anything like that?
I would say just thank you so much. I would say like right now,
I'm like, if I was going to plug anything, it would be the sub stack that I
started because that was kind of the last sighting thing that I've gotten into.
And it was kind of so many things tied back to the imposter syndrome.
(52:32):
And I think starting a substack where I'm forcing myself to try and post every
week, whether it's like fiction or just like the story behind lyrics or anything.
There's something about declaring that writing is a part of my life just as much as music.
And here I'm wanting to share it with people is almost another way to be like,
take that imposter syndrome.
(52:53):
So the substack is called Youngest Man in LA.
And I'm also working on an acoustic sort of solo album
of songs that will be a bit more lyrically driven
and my goal is to have it
be under the umbrella of youngest man in la and
maybe just not have to define the lines between
like music and writing so clearly and have it
(53:15):
be like here's this vehicle that is called youngest man in
la this is what i feel inspired by and usually it
draws back to writing whether or not it's songwriting or
fiction or life i'm finding that writing for
the most part is what makes me feel like i'm still following
some path of inspiration that feels sane and not
just chasing the dragon of something well i am grateful
(53:36):
to get to follow that path that you're exploring and
thank you again for coming on and i'll put links
to youngest man alive and swim and everything and the links for this podcast
so yeah dude also want to say thank you so much for all the support over the
years i mean even from the first swim eps to like reading the scripts you've
(53:56):
always just been this like anchor of support that has probably been been more than you even know of.
Something that makes me feel validated in the creative path that I'm choosing.
Because I respect what you do and your work ethic so much that you always making
it clear and being very effusive about your support for us or whatever I'm trying
to do has been a really lovely thing in my life for a really long time.
(54:20):
So thank you. That means a lot.
And it's an honor to get to be a part of that journey with you.
Sweet, dude. Thanks, Rich.
Music.
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