1. Paul Vaughn - Handcuffs for our Enemies

Paul Vaughn is facing 11 years in Federal Prison for standing up for the life of the unborn. Hear Paul’s backstory, the surprise FBI visit resulting in his arrest, and his take on the spiritual war at hand.

Episode Transcript

(01:00:00):
[MUSIC PLAYING]
The next week afterthat was very tough on many
in my household.
And because welive in an old farmhouse,
the rattling in thefront door is now associated
with the FBI and thetrial and all the angst and all

(01:00:20):
the trials.
If you banged andrattled on my front door,
that's going to bewhat my family thinks of first.
So it wasn't a dayor two after the arrest.
We had a neighborshow up banging on the door.
And like he normallydoes, once a month, he comes by.
He's a customer.
And he instead of comingto the office, he's a neighbor.
And he likes to stop byand say hello and drop a check off.

(01:00:43):
Innocent.
But the tensionin the house was palpable
as people grabbedtheir pillows and their beds.
And it's 7.30, 8o'clock in the morning.
And it'slike, what's going on?
Several nights in arow, my daughters and my wife
had various dreams andthings that were similar to that.

(01:01:05):
Somebody rattling thedoors or something, somebody coming.
Or even asrecently as last week,
waking to asense of a presence
of thistowering being standing
next to the bed and notknowing if it's good or bad,
but assuming since wedidn't know it was bad, it was good.
But there's that justawake in a dream state of something

(01:01:25):
going on supernaturally.
But I did have adream two nights in a row.
I just rememberthat it was a demonic voice.
It was in my conscious dream.
I knew it was bad.
And it was very, verymumbled and unintelligible.
I had the samedream the next night,
except this time Icould actually hear them.
The voice now wasintelligible, but still garbled

(01:01:47):
and kind of deepthroaty, evil sounding voice.
And he said, the creationsucks, handcuffs for our enemies.
I woke up.
I said, I'mlike, that's it, really?
That's why you gotyour cosmic demonic force.
And all you got to sayis creation sucks and handcuffs.

(01:02:11):
That's what you got.
And I don't fully understand.
I'm not a C.S.Lewis cosmology expert
understand thehierarchy of angels and demons
and all thethings that go into that.
But in mymind, I'm imagining this
is just some little impthat comes out on my nightstand
or something that was angry.
I don't know.
But it was reallyencouraging, actually.

(01:02:34):
I woke up thinking, OK,well, I guess we got a battle here.
I don't know.
What are wegoing to do with this guy?
Welcome to Stifled Cry.
In this episode, weget to know Paul Vahnen.

(01:02:55):
My dad grewup with two brothers,
and they moved fromCalifornia from Booneville.
My grandfather had alogging company out there
and ended up moving toArkansas with some of his family.
Had their owndump trucks at like 16
and worked in the business.
And so they had allthe sports cars and everything,

(01:03:16):
all the kids wouldlike going up in the 50s,
I guess, in high school.
And my mom from Floridacame from a divorced family there.
Her dad was a doctor.
So she ended upback in the 60s, I guess,
heading toCalifornia from Florida
and took a layoverin Arkansas and never left.

(01:03:39):
So I don't know much ofthe details of their meeting.
Yeah, that's in a nutshell.
So I grew up inchurch on mom's side
before the divorce.
They divorcedwhen I was in high school.
After the divorce, itwas pretty much turmoil of youth
and bouncing aroundfrom living with a friend,
living with mydad, living with my mom,

(01:04:01):
until I was able to getout of town and join the military,
join the Navy,and go see the world.
So because of thedivorce and anger and resentment
of a lot of those things,
having livedthrough that as a child,
I was trying todeny the upbringing and deny
that God existedbecause my theology didn't allow

(01:04:21):
for hurt and pain andsuffering and different things
that we experience in life.
So in runningfrom God for 10 years
and trying todeny His existence,
there's reallyprobably two stories that sum up
the debauchery, thesin, and the hurt, and the pain
that thatlifestyle leads to ended up

(01:04:46):
participating in abortion.
So obviously, it's avery traumatic experience.
And at the time,I told myself I was just
a modern American man,that this was a woman's right
and a woman's choice.
But of course, thatwas just a pathetic excuse
men used to shutthe responsibility that they

(01:05:06):
should havefor their actions.
I was nodifferent than anyone else that
lives in theworld without God.
I knew because my momwas still a strong Christian,
I knew of herinvolvement in pro-life ministry.
She had attendedthe Summer of Mercy event
in Wichita, Kansas, whichwas one of the largest pro-life

(01:05:27):
events in thehistory of the nation.
And so I knew what shewould think about my actions.
But I also knew thedespair and the overwhelming sense
of guilt that Ifelt from those actions.
And it left me with areal tangible sense of sin

(01:05:48):
and depravityand ultimately death.
There's anotherprovidential story during that same period
that God really set meon the path coming back to him.
And that was thehelicopter crash story.
I was in the Navy.
We flew on helicopters.
And I was scheduled on aflight that ultimately crashed and

(01:06:11):
killed all eight crewmen.
And I had got bumped thatmorning, two hours before that
flight took off.
I was bumped to thefirst flight and went out an hour
earlier than that flightbecause the guy that held the
position, that was avery specialized position on the
aircraft, brokehis arm the night before.

(01:06:32):
So all kinds of things.
When you look at that,and that airplane crashes, and
you're on the flightschedule, and you show back up on the
flight deck, and allyour friends come out and look at
you like you're a ghostbecause they had read that your
name was on thatflight that went down.
And you're realizing,you're thinking through the things
that--
so did God will theguy before me to break his arm?
That seems kind of mean.

(01:06:53):
But yet, had he notdone that, I would have died.
But then those people died.
And then what about theguy that took my place on the
flight?
What does Godthink about that guy?
So all kinds of deepquestions that you can't answer
without God, andwithout a theological construct that
works in the narrativeof a creator that is loving and

(01:07:14):
gracious and kind andwants the best for his creation.
So when I got out ofthe Navy, I'd moved back to--
didn't want to go backto the little town in Arkansas.
So I ended up--
had a couple friends from the
Navy thathad moved to Dallas,
the DFW area.
So moved back there.
But it wasreally in a tough spot.
My apartment had been robbed.

(01:07:35):
Everything Iowned was stolen.
Just in a bad part of Dallas.
And we just left emptyas coming to the fullness of my
own seeking.
And I knew God was there.
And I prayed this nightone night in my apartment after
everything was gone.
And I said, you know,God, I know you're out there.
I know you're real.

(01:07:56):
I know I've beentrying to suppress that fact.
I said, but I have nothing.
I have nobody.
I said, if you'll give mea friend to go to church with,
I know what I need to do.
Help me do it.
I believe, help myunbelief, kind of a prayer.
And it wasn't a dealmaking with God like you hear a lot

(01:08:16):
of times.
It wasn't like, OK,if you do this, I'll do this.
It was really a desperation.
Help me figure it out.
So the nextmorning, you got a
knock on the door, police, or
a bench warrant for ahot check at some liquor store.
I'm like, this ishow you answer prayers?
I cried out my heart to you.

(01:08:38):
And I get a--
I got to go downand pay this hot check.
And lo and behold, aboutthe time I'm thinking this in my
head, I'mrebuked instantly as
my good friend Mike pulled in
the driveway behind thepolice officer and said, hey,
what's going on?
And so Micah followed usto the police station, paid off
the check, and never wentto jail or anything like that.

(01:08:59):
But Mike was the onethat God ended up using, that he
literally within a week ortwo had been going to church and
was calling me up.
Hey, man, I found thisneat little church we're going to.
You want to go?
And so atfirst, I played him off.
And I'mlike, yeah, not really.
And then about the thirdtime he asked, I got quick in my
heart, it's like, oh,yeah, I asked that, didn't I?

(01:09:21):
That was the answer.
And so I ended upgoing to church with Mike.
And it was great.
We're goodfriends, good pool buddies.
We werefriends in high school.
And then we'd go out and play
pooltournaments and stuff and
had a real goodrelationship, good friendship.
I remember talking to thelittle Baptist pastor there in
Arlington, Texas andjust having theological debates as

(01:09:45):
I've been tochurch three times.
And now I'm like,well, what about this?
But it wasn'ta debate necessarily.
It was just questionsof trying to figure things out.
Anyway, Godused him amazingly.
I remember one day leavingthere and he had the pastor had
tears in hiseyes and it wouldn't--
my sense was, my takeawayin the spirit that he recognized
that God was doingsomething to me that I didn't recognize,

(01:10:08):
perhaps, at the time.
In that timeperiod, a week or
two later, Mike and the other
guys had come over andthere was a couple other extra folks
from my roommate's work.
And one ofthem started asking
questions about Christianity,
about Christ, and theyhad the Bible out and they were
looking at stuff.
And so I remember going
through theBible and going, oh, no,

(01:10:29):
but that's over here.
If you read this, and Iwas answering questions to this
complete stranger that Ihad never seen before out of the
Bible, and it's likealmost in an incident they were gone.
Like, OK, we're going outto the park, we're going to do a
thing or whatever, and I'mleft in the apartment by myself
with the Bible.
And I'm thinking tomyself, what just happened here?
I've been to church twice.

(01:10:49):
And here I'mhelping reading the scripture.
And that moment was themoment that God just really reached
into my heart.
And I broke down inprayer and weeping for God and just
said, repentance, andrealized just all the stories that I
just told leading up tothat, how that was God's hand and

(01:11:09):
all of that.
So it was a prettydramatic experience coming out of the
divorce in the 10 years and
all thethings that went into it.
What was yourmother's influence on you in that
period of your life?
Well, very little inthat period because I was
avoiding her.
Like I said, that's notwhat people running from Christ do.
They don't go to peoplethat want to image Christ to them.

(01:11:32):
But she wasfaithful throughout my childhood.
She was consistent.
She would go to church.
She cared for herchildren, put up with a lot through bad
marriage and all thethings that single mothers end up
having to go through.
And so she'salways been faithful.
Every child-parentrelationship always has its

(01:11:56):
growing pains aschildren grow and all that.
And certainly as I'mprocessing the pains of the
divorce and allthat, it was exaggerated.
And we weren't on good terms.
But it wasn'tbecause we weren't on good terms.
It was because I was noton good terms with my creator and
therefore was strained to
visit mom andtalk to mom and such.

(01:12:17):
I ultimately ended upmoving to Houston and then going to
church down there andgoing to the same church with my mom
and brothers and withRusty and his wife and kids.
Rusty Thomas is thepastor that was ministering to me and
brought me into hishousehold and just really
treating me like a son.
God really usedhim to strengthen my faith.

(01:12:39):
And then we would go out.
And I'd go out on thestreets with him, preach and minister
to people at theabortion clinics, just not at an event
or just going locally,
sidewalkcounseling, things like that.
And we did the bigpro-life drama that included a skit
about rescuewhere people were
sitting atthe door and really
brought out.

(01:12:59):
It was a beautiful skit.
It was a niceprobably 45-minute-hour drama, full
scale play.
That was as far asanything large that we did.
It was like a commitmentother than, hey, do you want to go
to the abortionclinic and pray today?
What made you want to getinvolved in pro-life ministry?
When God ultimatelytouched me and brought me out of my sin

(01:13:23):
and thedeception I was living
in, whenthose scales fell off
and I wasactually able to see
the truth ofwhat was going on,
to me, that'swhat a Christian was.
What aChristian deals with truth.
And the truthis those are babies.
And so it was very naturalto go out to an abortion clinic
and tell people, hey, that's

(01:13:44):
not the answeryou're looking for.
And it's notgoing to help you.
And there is a better way.
And it takes alittle bit of work,
but here's people thatwill help you and walk with you
and ministerto your actual needs,
as opposed totaking your dollars
and sending you onyour way in the same misery
that you arrived in.
How did you meet your wife?
Yeah, so Beth and Imet on the streets in Dallas,

(01:14:08):
actually, at theevent I was talking about
that came after the GOPevent, the Cities of Refuge event.
And we got paired up.
So one of thestrategies and really kind of a safety
precaution ofstuff is you normally
would pair up ayoung man and a young woman,
usually younger and single,

(01:14:28):
that would beout on the streets,
althoughhusband and wife teams
were awesometo have out there.
So Beth and I got pairedup as a sidewalk counseling team
at theMockingbird Clinic in Dallas,
is where we first go.
And I remember theMockingbird because one of the couples
we talked towas very hostile.

(01:14:48):
And so I get shovedinto a fence and threatened
to have my face beatin by the dad, the boyfriend,
and Beth's over theretalking with the girl that's crying.
And I'm like, thisis the volatile ministry.
Beth and hisfather, David Hall,
he made 3,000 white crosses.
They were about a foottall and all made out of wood,

(01:15:11):
with stands painted white.
And I do, backat that particular time,
that was about thenumber of abortions a day
that werebeing done in the US.
And so hecreated all these crosses.
And so when we had anevent, we go set out 3,000 crosses
in a field.
So whenyou're talking to people,
you can say, well,did you see those crosses

(01:15:31):
that were in the church?
That's the number ofchildren that died today.
While you and I arehaving this conversation,
while you wentto work and I went here
and we had our lunch andour dinner, 3,000 babies died.
So it was a veryvisual representation
from aministry standpoint of being
able to speak that truthand show a picture of that truth.

(01:15:52):
But of course,the challenge to that
is somebody had to put3,000 crosses out and pick 3,000
crosses up at these events.
And so Beth and I laughed.
Beth and I wereon the way to the church
and therelationship was picking up crosses.
Beth and I wrote backand forth back in the day.
We'd fax lettersback and forth since we
didn't have emailand texting back then.

(01:16:13):
We did go to aBirmingham event together
before we were married.
That was a neat event.
That was theover 200 or 300 Christians
were arrested forpraying on the sidewalk in front
of an abortionclinic where they used
civil rights law thatif you had more than 20 people
in a certain amountof footage on the sidewalk,

(01:16:35):
they would arrest you.
And so we spent allday with 19 people praying.
And then oneextra person would join them
and they would get arrested.
And then 19 people wouldpray for another 10 minutes or so.
And then oneperson would join them.
So we just kind ofcycled all the pro-lifers
through the jail forpraying on the sidewalk at that event.
And just after theface wheel had been signed

(01:16:59):
would have been 93.
We ended up doing arescue in Little Rock, Arkansas
whereJennifer Flowers aborted
BillClinton's child as the intel
that the leaders had on that.
And so we rescued, got
arrested, gotprocessed out, went home,

(01:17:20):
came back 30, 45days later for the court date.
And the judgethrew the book at us,
sentenced us to 30 days in
jail, deemedwe were flight risks,
sealed the courtroom,locked us up in our Sunday best suits
and stufffor court, and hauled
us directlyto jail on that day.

(01:17:43):
It was very much aclass B misdemeanor at the time,
is what rescues were.
And it's verymuch a parking ticket pay
and go home as thenormal fare for something like that.
So anyway, we all getthrown in the slammer in Little Rock,
Arkansas.
They're releasingprisoners to make room for us.
They were overcrowded.
The big processingfacilities where we get taken in,

(01:18:05):
where they takethe Friday night drunks in,
and all thesliding jail cell doors,
and thelittle concrete rooms.
And they hadall the ladies in one.
And I want to say--
I was lookingrecently at the numbers,
and I forgetexactly, maybe 22
or 24 of uswere thrown in jail.
Of those, maybe eightladies, six or eight ladies,

(01:18:26):
were in one, and the restof the guys were in another cell.
Theirs was kind ofon a diagonal on a corner.
And we were about fouror five cells down from them.
And it was a fun experience.
So we're allin jail having church,
and they letus have our Bibles.
So we're readingscripture, and going around.
You had Catholicsand Charismatics and Baptists
andPresbyterian and every stripe

(01:18:47):
and make ofChristian in the cell.
So we're all convertingeach other and telling testimonies
and telling stories ofwhat God's done in our life.
It was a good time.
We'd sing hymns together.
And it gotto be a lot of fun,
because therowdy drunks would come in,
and the guards wouldjust throw them in our cell.
And they'd go from being the
loudestperson in the jail cell

(01:19:08):
to cowering in acorner in about two minutes.
They figuredout these radical
Christians withBibles were in here,
and they didn'tknow what to do with that.
Our doors just left open.
They didn't lockour door or anything.
We didn't roamaround this place or anything,
but they weren't worriedabout us walking out, obviously.
The ladies weregetting processed in.
This was aftera day or two in jail.

(01:19:28):
We'd been in thecells for a couple of days.
And so they weregetting their showers,
and their nice neworange wardrobes and everything.
They werecleaning out their cell,
and so all the ladieswere sitting in the hallway
or sitting on thefloor outside the cells there.
And so I was able to sit
outside ourcell and talk with Beth.
And so we were sitting there

(01:19:48):
talking a littlebit about all the events
and what God hadbeen doing in respective cells
and just kind of rejoicing of
what we wereable to be part of.
And so I justasked her, I said,
"Seeing howwe're in bonds for Christ,
how do you feelabout the bonds of matrimony?"
And she said shewas agreeable to him,
but I had to talk to her dad.
So...

(01:20:09):
(LAUGHS)
Years later,fast-forward to my marriage
and sitting in my in-laws'
home lookingthrough photo albums.
And I'm looking atthis event, the Summer of Mercy,
and I see pictures ofmy mom in their photo album.
So we didn'teven know each other.
Obviously, I had no idea.

(01:20:30):
My wife was probably13 or something at the time.
And so my momand her family had
been at thesame event together,
which wefound out years later.
What didyour pro-life ministry
look likeafter you got married?
We had babies.
(LAUGHS)
We raised afamily. We have 11 children.

(01:20:50):
And we also lived in Waco.
PlannedParenthood moved to Waco.
The PlannedParenthood there, Pam Smallwood,
wanted to becomethe national president.
But the problem wasshe didn't have good creds
in the pro-abortion community
because herclinic didn't do abortions.
And so they wanted tostart doing abortions in Waco.
So when Beth and I gotmarried, we moved to Waco from...

(01:21:14):
I heard fromDallas and me from Houston.
And so we gotmarried, and that's where we moved.
And we didsidewalk counseling ministry
outside thatPlanned Parenthood
as theystarted doing abortions.
But a handful offolks did a rescue there
when they firststarted doing abortions.
And then we launched asidewalk counseling ministry
to be on thestreets every Wednesday

(01:21:35):
when theywere killing children.
And we did that forthe whole time we were in Waco.
And that stillcontinues to this day.
As far as Iknow, there's still
folks thatare going out there
from those early days.
This particular storythat God wrote into my life,
early on Iwas taking my friend
Rusty to theairport in Dallas,

(01:21:56):
the DFW airportfrom Waco, to our drive.
So I ran himup to the airport.
But as I droppedhim off at the airport
and come back out, asI'm coming on the entrance ramp,
my tire blows out.
Once you hit ahighway, you're several miles
in anydirection from anything,
like a gas stationor fast food restaurant.
You havestuff at the airport,
and you have stuffseveral miles down any interstate.

(01:22:18):
It's Texas, middle ofsummer, hotter than blazes.
And I get out, and I'djust come off two days earlier.
On my wayhome, there was a storm,
and I was abouta block away from home,
and I saw thisguy running in the rain.
And I felt like thespirits, like God just said,
"Hey, you shouldgive that guy a ride."
I'm like, "Yeah, well,he kinda ducks in the carport."

(01:22:38):
And I'm like, "Oh,he probably lives there."
And I kinda, Ijust kinda played it off.
I felt like itreally was God speaking to me,
but I was almost home,and I just kinda blew it off.
But I feltreally deep in my spirit.
I feltreally convicted, like,
"I should've given thatguy a ride, I don't know why."
And it was just one ofthose weird dynamics at the time.
So in the airport, onthe way home, I break down.

(01:22:59):
Well, of course, thefirst story comes to my mind
is two days ago, Ididn't give this guy a ride,
and now I'm needing a ride.
And I'm walkingdown this engine tramp,
I'm not 100feet from the car,
and I'm sweatingbullets, and it's hot.
And I justbegin to pray, and I say,
"God, forgive me ifthat was you two days ago,
and that wassomething you were telling me,
and I missed that.
Forgive me, I'm wrong,I'm selfish, I'm a sinner."

(01:23:22):
And I'm lookingout at this interstate,
and if you picture a 10 lane,
so I have fivegoing each direction,
and likeevery 10 second block,
there's 20 or 30 cars,
just massiveamount of people traffic.
I'm like, "Lord,is there not, you know,
I know I was wrong,but I know you forgive me."
I begin tobargain for a ride.
I'm like, "God,is there not one person?"

(01:23:43):
And these,look, hundreds of cars,
every fewseconds, every 30 seconds,
there'sprobably 100 cars go by.
Is there not oneperson that could hear your voice?
Like, "I didn't," thatwould stop, "give me a ride."
I know sooner gotthose words out of my mouth,
than I heard ahorn honk behind me,
and I turn around,there's a guy in this, I don't know,

(01:24:04):
Oldsmobile looking car,
and his car seat inthe back with his daughter,
I don't know,she's two or three years old,
something likethat, he pulls over behind me.
I get in, andhe said, "Yeah, I was,
I normally, wejust live down this way,
I normally godown the service road,
but as I wascoming up on the entrance,
God spoke to me and said,
"The guy inthat car needs a ride."

(01:24:27):
I was blown, I wasspeechless, I could not utter a word
without ringingdown and crying like a baby,
I'm sitting inthe front seat of the car,
and he drives me, youknow, and exit down the road,
and I get out where Ican call my mother-in-law,
and I just didthis, I feel bad, I feel like,
I didn't evengive him, I said thank you,
but I couldbarely get the words out,
and I wanted totell him this whole story,
so maybehe'll hear this one day,

(01:24:48):
and hear thestory of what happened,
but it was just an amazingstory that I think God gave me,
at that time to remindme of the spiritual battle,
there is a reality tothe spiritual forces around us,
and for all Iknow, that guy was an angel
that God just putthere for that purpose,
or maybe he'sactually a human like us

(01:25:09):
that heard theSpirit of God and was obedient,
and gave a poor guy aride when he didn't deserve it.
- What did yourpro-life ministry look like
after you had kids?
- When we firstmoved to Nashville from Texas
after our thirdchild, we continued to go out
to thestreets as we were able,

(01:25:30):
and then as Iworked in Green Hills,
I took every Fridaywith a couple other friends,
and we'd go down forlunch, and for five years,
we went toPlanned Parenthood at lunch
and prayed every Friday,
and that was the daythey were doing abortions,
and so we tookthat as an opportunity
to go down andminister, and then of course,
at the same time, raisingchildren and raising our family,

(01:25:51):
and being pro-lifeand the way we lived our life.
- I remember oneparticular guy that was arguing,
he's sitting in thecar at Planned Parenthood
waiting on a girlfriend,
and we're out therewith the family and praying,
and trying to talkto people and reach out,

(01:26:14):
and justdifficult sidewalk ministry,
and he came over,he got out of his car,
and he'swell-dressed, wealthy family,
he's got a nicecoat, leather gloves,
he gets out and kind ofslaps his gloves in his hand
and marches over tous like he's gonna show us
how wrong we areand how stupid we are,
and whatever his motive was,
and he comes upand starts engaging,

(01:26:35):
and one of mysons is like nine,
and so this guy istrying to make the case
that abortion'sokay because we voted for it,
and it's a right, andsurely if everybody voted,
it was okay.
And so we startgoing down the path,
well, what if theyvoted to kill one-year-olds
or two-year-olds,and my nine-year-old son
steps infront of us and says,

(01:26:56):
what if theyvoted to kill you?
He just got to the chase,
and the guy's allblustered and all that,
and that was aneat, proud dad moment
to see my child get itand understand the logical fallacy
this adultwas putting forward,
and to be able toreconcile that in his own mind.

(01:27:17):
But what was unique ishe and I just continued talking.
We got intopersonal space, right,
and sin and testimonyand a little bit of my history
and mytestimony with abortion,
and I just feltGod drop into my spirit.
Because he wasgiving testimony of his family
and his upbringing and hisgodly family that he came from,

(01:27:42):
and so I finally, Ijust felt this spirit, I said,
what sin is itthat you've committed
that has caused you tobe at odds with your family?
And he shutdown, he got angry,
visibly changed hisface, he turned on his heels
and walked back tohis car and didn't engage

(01:28:04):
the rest of theday, a few minutes later,
the girl comes out,he drives off in a fury.
It wasn't like a moralvictory or something for us,
so we pushedhis button, right?
It was, hey, Godsaw through his hypocrisy,
he knew exactly whyhe was out with his family,
knew exactly why he was there
at thatabortion clinic that day,

(01:28:24):
and knew that heknew that he was wrong.
And just bysaying those words,
the spirit ofGod cut to his heart
and was working inhim far beyond any words
or any greatdebate skills or anything else
any human could do, right?
Only the spirit ofGod can speak to us like that.
After living in Nashville,
Paul moved hisfamily out of the city

(01:28:45):
to start a family farm.
Over the next 15years, his family grew,
he started a businessproviding high-speed internet
to communitiesacross five counties
and served his local church.
His pro-life workcontinued as he eventually became
the president ofPersonhood Tennessee.
Then on October 5th,2022, something happened.

(01:29:09):
What happened onthe day you were arrested?
- I thought Idistinctly heard open up FBI,
but that soundslike a scene out of a movie,
not my front porch.
So I made myway to the front door,
pulled back the curtainon the door to see two agents
in full gear with longguns and sidearms and vest,

(01:29:31):
Velcro FBIbadges across their chest
with the guy in the backhad his sidearm trained on me
as I looked out the window
and I asked who theywere looking for and they said,
"You,"
of course my thoughtwas, "Does you have a name?
You could test very,it could be lots of people."
I didn't have timeto really think through that

(01:29:52):
or get a warrant orany kind of identification.
As I stepped out, Iasked for identification.
First I askedunder whose authority
and if theyhad any identification
and the littleshort guy that ended up
putting the handcuffs on me
and pointingat his Velcro badge
and said, "This isall the identification you get
and you canget them on eBay today

(01:30:12):
and anybody can have them."
So there wasn't any,they didn't have uniforms.
They didn't have any kindof professional identification
that told me that was them.
It was all Gestapo feartactics, banging and intensity,
trying to force theagenda that they wanted.
Of course, itwas me to surrender.
And of course thatwas the right thing to do

(01:30:33):
for the sake of myfamily and for everything.
Just because theywere being bully tyrants
doesn't mean thatthere was any better response
than surrendering to them.
It just means thatthey were being bully tyrants
and they shouldn't have been.
By that point, one ofmy children had told Mommy,
the FBI is here andthey're arresting Daddy.

(01:30:53):
And so Beth comesfrom the bedroom in the back
where she waswith our two-year-old.
She came out and theysent her for a sweatshirt.
I was in a t-shirt.
And so they sent herfor a shirt or something.
And as I wasbeing led down the steps
to theunmarked car, the first one.
So they put me in the car.

(01:31:14):
And of course Bethcame back out with the camera
that has thefootage that went national
and through allthe treatment of my family
after I was in the car.
She was wantingto know, she was asking,
"What are you doing?
"What is this about?
"Why are you here?"
The same questionsevery person in America
would wanna know iftheir spouse is being arrested.
And the guy'sgetting his cocky head swing

(01:31:35):
kind of thing going,"So you really wanna know?
"You wanna know?"
And just likeliterally trying to incite my wife.
And as soon as shecame back with the sweatshirt
and had the camera,it's like an instant change
and attitude and demeanor.
He went, "Well,ma'am, I'm very sorry.
"I've tried to tell you."
And just completelychanged his attitude on the spot.

(01:31:57):
He flicks hishand down by his leg.
He flips the door back,
intentionallyslamming it at my wife, at Beth.
Very cocky, arrogant thing,
but knew he didn'twanna get in trouble on camera.
In the car,once I was in the car,
they did show me,pull up a computer screen
and show me a warrant.
And ofcourse with no glasses,
only I could see wherethere's the one uppercase word

(01:32:19):
on the thing said face.
So I knew itwas about the face act.
And so Ifigured it was pro-life.
But again, it's been18 months since the event
that was in question.
No idea what wasgoing on or anything about it.
The carsdrive off with me in it.
They met together.
I wish I couldremember the code name of the spot
that a littleused car lot in town.

(01:32:41):
It was codenameorange or spot alpha,
whatever it was.
I forget.
It was pretty funny.
I got a chuckle out of itjust hearing them talk about it
because nowthey're all sounding official.
Got a crime scene.
But we get there and theymove the handcuffs to the front
and let me put mysweater on and get ready
for the hour and ahalf ride into Nashville.

(01:33:04):
We pulled indowntown Nashville to the new
federal courthousedown on Church and 8th.
And they wentinto the Sallie Port,
where they deliverprisoners and the secure fenced area
and then into thesecure lockdown garage.
And so they had toshackle and manacle me,
put footshackles on me and everything
to carry me in.

(01:33:25):
So now we're beinghanded off from the FBI
to the US MarshalServices who runs the prison systems.
Shuffle myself downthe hallway with 12 inch steps
or whateverthe manacles were.
And get in theroom and of course,
take off yourshoes and do the search
and make sureyou're not carrying any weapons

(01:33:46):
that they didn'tfind on my front porch
at seveno'clock in the morning.
Like I had hiddenrazor blades or tongue depressors
or something in my sneakers.
The one thingthat stands out in memory
was they wanted a DNA swab.
What's this for?
Well, all federalprisoners have to have a DNA swab.
As it is, it required.

(01:34:07):
No, it's required.
Had I known more aboutwhat I was facing and dealing with,
I would haveabsolutely refused it
and forced them toget a court order to do it.
So I went ahead andfigured I would fight that in court
and try toretrieve my DNA at some point
because that's acomplete violation of my person.
So I get lockedin a nice new prison room

(01:34:27):
with another guy in prison,
you know, in jumperoranges, federal oranges.
So he's sleeping.
So a lot of time inthe cell to pray and, you know,
seek God and Iknow it's spiritual battle.
And so I wasn'treally despondent or upset.
Obviously it's notyour favorite place to be
when you think you'retaking your kids to school
and you got work to do.

(01:34:49):
I had an actual largebusiness meeting to discuss
delivering internet to a
county inSouthern Western Tennessee
and was supposed tobe meeting with the mayor
and political leadersin that community that morning.
And so that's, I wasgetting ready for all that
and had that on theagenda and couldn't call,

(01:35:10):
couldn't cancel,couldn't reschedule, just a no show.
And the businesspartner that I was working there
was pretty upset.
And of course the mayorand them weren't too impressed
with my punctuality andmy commitment to the project,
to say the least.
So then fora couple of hours,

(01:35:30):
I finally got to see aquarter pointed feminist lawyer
that was, I'm 90% sureit was a complete pro abort
that despised even havingto talk to me the way she acted.
And actually sheshared the charges with me.
So I found out at thattime that it was a face charge
for blocking theentrance of abortion clinic,
which I never did.

(01:35:51):
And then the add-oncharge was the conspiracy charge
that I conspiredwith others to do the same.
And then she askedabout prior arrest and stuff.
I said, yeah, I had two or
three back inthe 90s or something.
I had some localarrest for pro-life activity
back in the 90s.
And that was about it.
I shuffled back down thehall with the guard to my cell
and waited onthe FBI to come back.

(01:36:12):
So the transitionauthority custody back
from the USMarshals back to the FBI
for theelevator ride upstairs.
So the FBI tookme back to the courthouse
and went throughthe arraignment process.
It wasinteresting, the little attorney,
the first thing she doesis pull up her computer screen
that showed fiveor six arrests in the 90s.
And she turns aroundwith this little snobby attitude,

(01:36:34):
like, and it waslike, it was the 90s.
I said, I had rest then.
I don't, it's 30 years ago.
I knew at the moment thatas soon as I had the opportunity,
she wouldn't berepresenting me long.
But we made itthrough the arraignment.
The judge, JudgeHolmes was the magistrate judge
that did that.
You know,they're being good guys,

(01:36:55):
not seeking custodyduring the, until the hearing.
Well, in thenot seeking custody,
you have to goto pretrial release,
which is the same as parole.
So get this,someone who's innocent
of anythingthey're charged with
now has the sameconditions as a murderer
or somebody that'sbeen in federal custody
for five, 10, 30 yearsand is getting out on parole.

(01:37:18):
I'm now suffering thesame indignities as that person.
So every monthreporting in, reporting my income,
reporting mytravels, limited travel
to the middleTennessee district
withoutpermission from the overlords,
while yet notguilty, yet not proven
in court of law tohave done anything wrong.
The condition was submitto pretrial releases services.

(01:37:40):
And then alsothat we could not,
they talked to any witnesses
and we could notgo within a hundred feet
of a quotereproductive health services building,
which I signed thepiece of paper and agreed to.
And I'm told then toreport to pretrial services
the next day.
Anyway, sign it andget turned back over to the FBI

(01:38:03):
when the arrangements done
and go back down to beprocessed out by the US Marshals.
And then basicallyget turned down on the street
in Nashville with nophone, no wallet, no nothing
through a seriesof fun social experiments
of asking peopleto borrow their phone
and getting ahold of my wife
and trying to connectwith her while she's driving

(01:38:23):
and at herpastor's house, getting prayer
and seekingcounsel and direction
for what to dowith her missing husband.
We finally makeit through the afternoon,
and get connected andable to get back to the family
that night and debriefon everything that happened.
(soft music)
- How is yourwife handling all of this?

(01:38:45):
- Wonderfully, she does good.
You know, like me,she has the same challenges.
She's human, we allhave our own human natures
and our own giftings andtalents and our own weaknesses.
As we all wrestlewith this, we go back and forth
and the beauty ofthings like this is God uses them

(01:39:05):
in our life tostrengthen our weaknesses
and to take away thepride found in our strengths
and to make us morerounded, balanced Christians
that we can better serve Him.
And my wife, like myselfand the rest of us is processing.
She's been good, she'sbeen an encouragement, she's bold.
I'm verythankful for her strength.

(01:39:27):
Those very things that Isaw early on in our courtship
and on the streets whenwe were ministering together
and talkingwith the other Christians
are the verythings and the very strengths
that I see God using inour life and our marriage today.
You can look atthe video she recorded
the day of the event.
I challenge aman to line up 100 women

(01:39:50):
and find ahandful that are brave enough
to take the phone outto the FBI car and follow them
and call them out forthe injustice that is being done.
And so I think someof the best marital advice
or I guess spouseseeking advice I received
that I've heard the story of
and I don't evenknow who to give credit for it

(01:40:11):
but I use it all thetime now with other people I know
is that you don'tworry as a young single person,
don't worry aboutfinding a spouse, find God,
figure outwhat your calling is,
figure out what you can do to
serve andminister in His name
and reflectHis image in the world
and begin running therace that He set before you.
And when youkeep looking beside you

(01:40:32):
and seeing the sameperson running beside you,
then grab their handand run the race together.
And that'sthe case with Bethany
as I wasministering on the streets
and she keptbeing at events I was at.
We keptministering in the same manner
and showing upat the same places.
And it just, soshe caught my attention
and ultimately I grabbedher hand and we kept running.

(01:40:54):
- How are your kids doing?
- The same way mom anddad are handling it, right?
We have gooddays and bad days.
We see things likeincredible theological breakthroughs
and just immenseincredible things that God is doing.
And other days it'slike, how do we pay the bills?
How do we live today?
Can't even getthe car repairs done
and just living through it.

(01:41:16):
So the childrenare, they're being expanded.
They're seeingmom and dad wrestle.
They're the secondhandbeneficiaries of a measure of grace
that is being pouredout in the midst of the trial
that is ultimatelygonna be for their good.
It's a challenge,but we know that ultimately
all thingswill work for good.

(01:41:38):
And I thinkthey're doing pretty good.
We're engaged inschool and keeping busy
doing the things we'resupposed to do and growing.
And you can ask thequestion, but ask the question again
next week ornext month or next year
and it may becompletely different.
- What is itlike leading your family
through thespiritual battles?

(01:42:00):
- Think of what it'slike to be a father of 11
in say America,2023, having gone through COVID
and come out ofCOVID and the woke doctor
and everything that's outin the workplace and in the world
and just tryingto raise your family
and trying toteach them to do good things
and trying to teachthem about their creator and God.

(01:42:24):
It's the same as that,except it's a little more intense
because thebattle is more intense.
The truths are the same.
Like so much of thisbattle, it is 10 times harder
and it's 10 times easier.
It's 10 times harderbecause the battle is intense
and you fight withinyourself to be able to find the grace

(01:42:45):
and to deal withthe struggles of the day.
But then it's 10 times easier
because youopen the scripture
andeverything is so applicable.
You read thebeatitudes and like every one of them
has direct applicationthat you can easily point out
to your children ofhow this applies to our family
in this time and all that.

(01:43:07):
- Why is thisbattle worth fighting?
- One of thepetitions that the law you made
was aboutRoe being overturned
and about thehumanity of the babies.
The court didn'thave jurisdiction in this,
that the federalgovernment has no jurisdiction
in an abortiondebate in Tennessee.

(01:43:28):
It was fun, thejudge made a comment in there
that we are, quote, "The
defendants arenot the moral center
of the universe."
Which I thoughtwas very interesting
because she went on toclaim by her language and actions
that she was.
And so it'll be interesting.
I think the thing thatshe misses and the DOJ misses

(01:43:49):
is that there is amoral center to the universe.
Is it true thatunborn children are human beings
created in the image of God?
Roe v. Wade was adecision the court made
that denied the truthhuman beings at conception
being made byGod in the image of God.

(01:44:12):
So when they'relooking at the face bill
that was built onthe falsity of Roe v. Wade,
now they madeit a federal crime
to go and try toprotect the unborn children
made in the imageof God because they said,
no, this is a civil right.
It's acodification of falsehood.

(01:44:32):
And so as aChristian, we have an obligation
morally to Christ who isthe truth first and foremost.
Then yes, toobey civil authorities,
to obeyrighteous and just laws.
We don't getto pick and choose.
It's not like anarbitrary, I'm a Christian
so that doesn't apply to me.
So submission tothat law like Rosa Parks

(01:44:53):
drinking out ofthe white water fountain,
or I'm sorryRosa Parks was on the bus,
but a black persondrinking out of a water fountain
that was illegal for them to
drink out ofthe water fountain
because it saidthey're a different class of human.
Well, what theyended up doing is they said,
well, you knowwhat, we hear your law,
we're willing to obey it.
It's as if Idrink out of this fountain,
I'm getting a $50 fineor I'm going to jail overnight

(01:45:14):
or whatever,your terms are acceptable
because I'm a humanbeing and I'm gonna show
that I believe thattruth by breaking this law
that is not trueand I'm going to submit
to the authority thatyou have by putting me in jail.
And insuffering that injustice,
I'midentifying with the truth
that then rebukesthis law that is untrue.

(01:45:35):
And so we arenot free, for instance,
to make a pleabargain as I've written about,
about the pleabargain the court made and said,
well, if you justplea guilty to a misdemeanor,
then we'll dropthese felony charges
and we'll letyou off with no jail time
and have alittle bit of probation.
Well, that'd be great.
As a materialvictory, our lawyers are rejoiced,

(01:45:56):
they got feloniesreduced to misdemeanors.
We all rejoice,we don't go to jail.
A material victoryis not what we're after.
We've given ourwhole life, my wife and I,
and many, manypeople across the spectrum
in thepro-life movement have asked
for the end of abortion.

(01:46:17):
And we've prayed forthat end, we've acted to that end,
we've gone out andministered with that desire
and that design.
The primary issue hereis you're not choosing a law
to be disobedient to,you're bound by a higher law
that you must be obedient to,
and this law hasbecome in conflict with that law.
And now we'reduty bound to do that.

(01:46:38):
And if you, justice system,
that think that it'snecessary to throw us in jail,
then that's on you.
But we'reidentifying with the truth.
- How would yousay abortion affects
the spiritualstate of our country?
- Wow, that's huge.
There's so manyfacets to the impact of abortion

(01:46:59):
from theindividual to the culture,
to thebroader judgments of God,
that innocentblood brings on a land.
One of thethings that back in the 90s,
a lot of the pro-lifemovement leaders would say,
well, if wedon't stop abortion,
God's gonnajudge this nation.

(01:47:20):
And as you readthrough the Old Testament,
the things thatstood out to me as judgments
were the killing of children,
right, theshedding of innocent blood
was notgoing to be a judgment.
It was one of the evidences
that a nationwas under judgment.
Weak leadershaving no leadership
as a sign ofjudgment from God.

(01:47:41):
You don'thave to look too far up
ConstitutionAvenue to see the judgment.
We can presume thatwe're under as a nation.
From no-faultdivorce and Reagan,
one of our greatconservative presidents
was the very first onethat gave us no-fault divorce.
Well, what was that saying?
It was devaluingthe covenant of marriage

(01:48:01):
that Goddesigned in the garden
for men andwomen to be together,
to have strongfamilies so children could depend
on mom and dad in the home.
You had a lotof that outworking
was out of thesixties and seventies,
hippies, free love movement,
and just sexwithout consequences,
sex without commitment.
And of course thatdidn't come out of nothing either
that you cango generationally back

(01:48:22):
all the way toMargaret Singer and beyond
and just seekind of the ebbs and flows
of culture andpublic thought, sentiment.
So as wecome into the Roe era,
Roe v. Wade cameout of the free love,
love without commitment,
basicallybegan telling the story
that God justwants you to be happy.

(01:48:46):
I'll say it thatway because I've heard that
so many times in my walk,
usually aroundpeople getting divorced.
It's funny, that's thestatement people always make
is like Godwants me to be happy
and this personis not making me happy,
thereforeGod's okay with divorce.
It promises happinessand then it ultimately leads
to more pain andsuffering for everybody.
So the no-faultdivorce is directly tied

(01:49:08):
to abortion on demand.
And so as you begin tohave people demanding that,
we have to understandand assess that they didn't think
that it's a great ideato go out and kill my children.
What they said was, Iwant to be free to do what I want.
I want what I want,when I want it, how I want it,
and I don't wantany repercussions for that.

(01:49:29):
Basically, Idon't want any God.
I want to be my own God,the same life from the garden.
I will decide for myselfwhat is right and what is wrong,
what is goodand what is evil.
And I'll bethe, what is that?
I'm thedeterminer of my own fate,
the master of my destiny.
And as that moves on,then that becomes everyone

(01:49:50):
now has thissecret sin of abortion
or now has thisbaggage of abortion or divorce
and othersins related to that.
And so now when thepublic discourse is going on
and people aretalking, their presupposition is,
well, I have topush this right for abortion
because I'vealready participated in it,
or I've alreadyhave a friend that did,

(01:50:12):
or my daughterdid, or my name, the person.
And so now the publicsentiment begins to take on
what it firmlyrejected as a lie early on,
but as individuals begin
practicing andwalking in this step,
you know, what's the, thepassage of what was once rejected
now becomes demanded.

(01:50:32):
And so it'sreally interesting to see,
I don't know thatthere's ever been a nation
that has recovered fromchild sacrifice and homosexuality
and the sinsthat we see in our nation.
And so it'll beinteresting to see as a culture,
if we survive theoverturn of Roe v. Wade

(01:50:53):
and thereversing of the engines,
if we can actuallycome through this in one piece
as a nation, orif it takes a, you know,
usually war and lots ofother tragedies are associated
with the unwinding ofan evil practice of a culture
and a peopleas God takes them
into the proverbial woodshed.

(01:51:15):
He'll use evilrulers to reform our thoughts
where we've goneastray and to bring us back
intoconformity with actual truth.
So as a culture,we can ascribe to truth
or we can ascribe to lies.
And just likewe can as individuals.
When we share atestimony, it's not,
oh, I walked down theBaptist church aisle when I was 12

(01:51:38):
and said this prayer,that's great, great first step.
It's the steps going back up
aisle andevery step since then
that is thetestimony of what God's doing
and has done in your life.
- What do you want tomake sure your family knows
before going into the trial?

(01:51:58):
- You know, it'sfunny, I got a friend that says
of his children, he'sraising martyrs for Jesus.
And I alwaysthought that was way extreme.
And couldn'tget there from here.
It's like, yeah, butyeah, I want him to go to heaven.
I want him to begood soldiers for Jesus,
but intentionallymaking, trying to train him
to be martyrs, this isnot the first century, come on.

(01:52:20):
But yet, martyrdomand persecution takes on
so many different forms.
And there's a spiritualtruth in training that mindset
of understandingthat spiritual battle
that I thinkis vitally important.
You know, for mychildren, I would say,
you know, that firstand foremost, there is a God,

(01:52:42):
there is no other.
He is trueand right and good.
And in spite of allthe troubles and all the things
this world could bring to us,
he is stilltrue and right and good.
And there is no other.
If I go to jailor don't go to jail,
if I'm foundinnocent or guilty,
whatever happensin this material world,
if COVID comes andwipes out half of Tennessee,

(01:53:05):
if war comes andthere are nuclear bombs dropped
on friends andfamilies that we know,
whateverhappens in this world,
it cannotand does not change.
There is a Godand there is no other.
He created us, heloves us, and our duty,
no matterwhat, is to follow him.

(01:53:26):
So Simon, if I'mremembering the story,
right, carriedthe cross of Christ.
And I forget inActs the son's name.
I believe one was Alexander.
But the way it stayedin Acts is really interesting
because itdoesn't say the sons of Simon,
as in everybody knewSimon and didn't know his sons,

(01:53:46):
but they saidAlexander and the other son's name,
whose father was Simon.
In other words,they were more well known
than the father was.
And this is the guy thatcarried the cross for Christ.
And so what is it theydid beyond what their father did
that made them so wellknown that people knew their names?

(01:54:08):
And I would say, formy family, for my children,
take what littlesacrifices I've made.
Take the blessings ofGod and stand on my shoulders
and go further, do more.
Be used of God, becontent with where he places you.
It's not measured inmaterial, worldly, measuring sticks.

(01:54:31):
It's a spiritualinheritance that can be spent
to advancethe kingdom of God.
- Thank you for listening.
Go tostifledcry.com to support this project.
(gentle music)