August 29, 2024 • 59 mins
In this episode, we have the pleasure of chatting with Gazelle Powers. She shares her unique journey from photography to modeling, highlighting the challenges and triumphs along the way.
Gazelle discusses her initial steps into the modeling world, the influence of her photography background, and the obstacles she faced, including industry standards and personal boundaries. She also touches upon her passion for creating her own wardrobe, her experiences with different modeling genres, and the importance of maintaining professionalism in all situations.
From navigating the complexities of agency representation to thriving as a freelance model, Gazelle's story is one of resilience and creativity. Tune in to hear about her memorable photo shoot experiences, her approach to self-portraits, and her insights into the evolving modeling community.
Whether you're a fellow model, a photographer, or simply curious about the modeling industry, this episode offers valuable perspectives and inspiring anecdotes from Gazelle's 15-year career. Don't miss this engaging conversation that sheds light on the art of modeling and the strength it takes to succeed.
Check out Gazelle on instagram https://www.instagram.com/gazellepowers/
and on her website! https://www.gazellepowers.com/
Cover image by Kevin Stiles
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music.
(00:06):
Sunrise Life, the podcast where we have deep conversations with fellow freelance models.
And today I have Gazelle Powers on the line. Say hello.
Hi, thrilled to be here. Thanks. I've been following your page for a little
while and I've been wanting to interview you for, I think, a couple months now.
And I'm so glad to be able to line up our schedules for this.
(00:28):
Likewise, likewise. Likewise. I've been looking forward to it,
actually. Yeah, thanks.
So tell me the story of how you first got into modeling.
Well, it's a little interesting, I guess. I actually do photography of my own.
And so my segue into modeling was really through my own photography work.
(00:51):
I've done photography pretty much for as long as I can remember and kind of
grew up in a household where cameras were always around and we always took pictures
and I always had a camera.
And that was like one of my biggest gifts was like getting my grandmother's like Polaroid camera.
So really just have always had the exposure to photography and never really
(01:13):
did like specifically formal training to learn really mostly self-taught and
never really being in my photos either.
Like I did a lot of landscape, a lot of abstract stuff, but never really being
in my photos other than if someone was taking group photos or anything.
(01:33):
And so really sort of my segue into it was like, oh, hey,
I thought it was an interesting thing because it's art
and deciding before stepping in front of someone else's camera or modeling for
anyone that I should probably try photographing myself First is just to see
(01:53):
like how comfortable I was with doing it and realizing that,
oh, my God, it is so much harder than I thought it was going to be.
Not from the aspect of like being in front of the camera, because I felt like
that was sort of like a normal transition for me, but really just.
The I guess the the framework of
(02:16):
what's required when you're in front of the camera realizing like
where the camera is like lighting and composition
and like all of those things are really like important when you're in front
of the camera and I really had no idea about that from the modeling side of
it so I actually modeled for myself for a little over a year before I stepped
(02:38):
up in front of anybody else's lens for photography.
But during that time, I was also modeling for artists individually for painting
and drawing and doing classes and open sessions.
So all of that really sort of built into my modeling for photography.
And I did actually start out with an agent and quickly realized that was not
(03:04):
my segue for things because there were really expectations for what being an
agency model meant and realizing I was not industry standard because I'm short.
So that was really like a big realization of like, oh, hey, you can't do this
as an agency represented model because there's like all these qualifiers that you don't meet.
(03:30):
And just really things that I wasn't willing to do as a model to move forward
in the industry as an agency-represented model.
So it was really a lot of decision-making on my part to just do it freelance and do my own thing.
Yeah, actually, I was looking at your website right before we started this,
(03:52):
and I saw that you brought up your petite-ness. And I was like,
oh, how petite is four foot? It was quite.
Yeah. Yeah. I never would have guessed that.
Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things with the agency that they had suggested was stretching.
And for those that don't know, when I started modeling, I was already what people
(04:15):
would consider an older model because I didn't start modeling until I was 30.
So that was like that was already
a strike against me you know being with the agency starting out
because I was an older model but also I was underweight under height and so
it was like really like this long list of things where it's like if you want
(04:35):
agency representation these are the things that you need to change about yourself
in order to have that representation in order to to get more work and be more visible.
And it was just as an older model and having already done a lot of corporate
work and a lot of other things, freelance for other things, it was just,
I wasn't willing to do all of those things to myself physically.
(05:00):
Changes that I felt were not healthy, but also just...
As an older person, I was like, yeah, I don't really want to devote my time
to doing those things because I don't think it's going to benefit me in the
way that I'm being told that it will.
So it was, you know, that was really the decision to just be freelance at that point.
(05:23):
Wow. So the agency that you had initially began working with,
what kind of models or what kind of work did they generally like do for people?
Was it commercial or fashion, or did they also have artistic projects that they represented?
So it was mostly commercial. There was a lot of runway stuff,
(05:43):
which was also the issue with me is because I was only four foot 11,
it was, well, you're not going to be able to get a lot of gigs,
you know, doing runway stuff, even though I learned to walk runway.
But that was the problem with that. It was, you need to be at least five,
nine to do any of the projects for this.
I actually had gone on a casting where it was supposed to be a runway thing
(06:08):
for wedding dresses and it was supposed to be like a diverse thing for wedding dresses.
And then I got there and even with submitting my stats and stuff ahead of time,
I got there and there was nothing that would fit me. Like everything was too big.
And so I ended up being there and not being able to walk because they were like,
(06:30):
we don't have anything that will fit you. So I, I ended up just standing around
backstage because they didn't have anything to fit me.
So it really was for me like a challenge just breaking into the industry.
And I love clothing because I make a lot of my own clothing.
So that aspect realizing, okay, hey, I'm not going to be able to go into it
(06:53):
in like the fashion area,
which is kind of where I was going with signing up with that agency because
I didn't have, you know, the look and the build and the height that they were
saying was a requirement for going in that direction.
That's cool that you make your own clothing. Did you start doing that partly
(07:13):
because like mainstream fashion type stuff isn't there? I, oh, it's funny.
Actually, my mom taught all of us how to sew. And I really started doing it
because I hate shopping. I really do.
But clothes shopping more so because...
I would go in and try things on and nothing fit. And I just got tired of like
(07:37):
going in the store and trying on things and nothing would fit.
And so when I started modeling, that was one of the things where it was like
photographers would request like certain wardrobe and stuff.
And then spending time trying to find various things where it was like,
okay, well, maybe I can find this,
maybe I won't find this, but also just not being able to devote the time needed
(08:01):
to do deep diving for shopping when I was working three jobs at the time.
So it just wasn't an efficient way for me to utilize my time and resources.
So I was like, okay, what can I do to sort of like Like have wardrobe,
but have wardrobe that I would like that's unique.
(08:24):
And so I started, I started sewing again. That's cool.
That's so cool. I've always wanted to have like more motivation and time to
like make my own outfits as well.
But it's very cool that you do that. Do you sell any of it?
I haven't. And I've had a lot of people requesting me making things for them.
(08:46):
And I have done, taken on special projects and done things. like I've made my
friends' bridesmaids dress.
But there's a lot of fun aspect that gets taken out of it when you're commissioned
to do things on a larger scale, and especially when you're doing it for money-making.
There are several projects that I have in the works for doing something in the future in that vein.
(09:13):
But right now, it's really just me focusing on.
Are doing fun things that I enjoy doing and making.
So, yeah. So you started out with the agency and then the agency didn't work out.
What was the transition like when you exited trying that agency out and then
(09:33):
going into freelance modeling?
The transition with that was actually pretty seamless for me.
And I think most of that was was because when I started with the agency,
like I said, I was still working full time.
So I had a day job. I had a night job. I had a weekend job as a PCA.
(09:53):
And then what I would do is I would do photo shoots like in between.
So usually whenever I had like a shorter night during the week,
I would do a shoot or on the weekends.
If I finished earlier, I was like working shoots disputes in between those on the weekends.
So it was a pretty easy transition for me to sort of walk away from the agency
(10:16):
just because I didn't feel like it aligned with what I wanted to do.
And I found more success doing the freelance stuff.
And I think some of that was because I already had the experience doing freelance
from my prior career work.
So it wasn't a hard transition for me to just be like, well,
what do I need to do to do this freelance?
(10:39):
And really just, it took just putting in time and research with finding people
to connect with and to work with.
And a lot of that really did come from the art classes and the artists that
I was working with individually for painting and drawing.
Cause a lot of them either already knew photographers or knew other people that
might be interested in me modeling them for them,
(11:02):
for reference images, for their artwork so a
lot of my segue into that really sort of started
with me being in the art community and working
with people painting and drawing wow that's cool
that's like a very like organic to instead of having to like hustle online and
like shoot in the dark you already had people that you were connected to through
(11:23):
the art community that you were already participating in that's pretty cool
yeah and I definitely did a lot of the the hustle online with like reaching out to people.
Because I, I mean, I literally had no experience or knowledge about what.
Photography modeling was. And I had, I spent a lot of time in college.
(11:44):
I had taken a lot of art classes. So in the realm for like painting and drawing,
I already had my hands and feet in the water in that realm, but I didn't have
it in the realm of like photography modeling.
And so that was like the new sort of, you know, place for me where I did have
to do a ton of research and a lot of cold calling and a lot of just like,
(12:08):
okay, well, we'll see what happens with this to figure it all out. Yeah.
That's cool. In today's community of modeling and photography.
I've witnessed that other models that are doing this full time are often willing to be helpful.
Was that helpful for you too? I think when I started, I didn't find a ton of
(12:36):
models sharing information like there is now.
There's a ton of information with searching or models that are willing to share
information and resources and things like that. I did have to do a lot of just
like spending time, just like, how do I figure this out?
Or trial and error and like going out and being like, oh, okay,
(12:58):
well, that just happened.
That was not a good thing. But I think some of it was, too, again,
because I already had the experience from being freelance in a different profession,
I really sort of pivoted that into my photography modeling and like trying to
figure out, OK, what do I need to do to make this work and finding resources?
(13:22):
And I was an employment specialist for people in the past, and I've done hiring
and firing. So a lot of that stuff is stuff that I sort of pulled from with
trying to find work as a photography model.
Wow. So when you started, did you start with Model Mayhem?
Which is funny because I actually knew about Model Mayhem like pretty early on,
(13:46):
but I really wanted to build up a portfolio and work with people before I actually
had an online presence or an online portfolio.
So I would probably say I probably spent a good year just working with people
before I even put up any online portfolio or presence or anything,
(14:11):
because I really just sort of wanted to work through like the persona that I wanted to have visible,
what I wanted to have visible as a business, all of that.
All of that stuff is stuff that I sort of wanted to work on and sort of work
out the nuances of it all before I even had an online presence, so to speak.
So it was probably about a year before I even set up a profile on Model Mayhem
(14:33):
or Model Society or there's a couple other places that I can't even remember now. But yeah.
That's great. It seems like a very calculated and thought out approach where
a lot of other models that I know, when they first get into modeling,
they're not thinking about creating a persona and sometimes not even creating a modeling alias.
(14:56):
They just kind of like, yeah, get their picture taken, start posting on their
personal page, get backlash from their personal friends and family.
It branches off into modeling, but it sounds like you went a route that was
a lot more calculated, which I don't, I don't really hear of that happening as often.
So I think that's a really cool and unique, like launch, like a very thought out launch. Yeah.
(15:22):
And I think at the time when I was doing it, I felt a little bit like I was
stifling myself and holding myself back from being able to progress because of it.
Because I kept getting a lot of people saying, oh, well, you don't have an online
presence yet. When are you going to do that?
You should really have that out there. And when I was in that space.
(15:43):
I really felt like I'm behind everyone else that's out there because everyone else did have that.
And I was like, okay, maybe I'm doing this the wrong way with doing it.
But I am super thankful looking back on it now that I did actually take the
time to just foster what I wanted to present out because it did make a difference
for me in the long run for sure.
(16:04):
Yeah, I imagine coming on strong when you first finally launched your portfolio,
a lot of people probably viewed you as a professional right from the beginning
of that being launched instead of trying to take advantage of you for TFP all the time.
Yeah, I definitely still got it, but it did, it definitely did help me sort
(16:24):
of, what is the word I'm thinking of, deter quite a bit of that, I think.
Yeah. That's cool. Also starting in your 30s probably automatically deters certain
people from contacting you. It did.
And I didn't, you know, I didn't know it at the time when I started that,
you know, I kept seeing people saying, oh, well, you know, where you're an older model.
(16:46):
And then I had people reaching out to me by the time I did actually put up my
model mayhem saying, hey, you know, I see your age on here.
But then, you know, have you updated the images that you have in your profile
because they all look really young? And it's like, well, no,
those were taken like two weeks ago, like yesterday.
(17:06):
So this is my current look. So I think that was the, the big thing that I had
to deal with is that, like you said, some people search where there's a cutoff
where, you know, it's like, you know, 22, 23, 25.
And I was well outside of that. And I was accepting of that when I started because
I was like, this is who I am.
(17:27):
If you're going to work with me, you're going to work with me.
If not, you know, there's nothing I can do about that.
But my age is my age, you know.
You didn't want to lie about your age because there are a lot of people that
might do that just for marketing purposes.
And I think for me, I had a little bit of the reverse with that because I do
(17:47):
look very young. And so...
Putting my actual age on there was really a thing for me because oftentimes
people think, you know, when I first started out, they thought I was under 18.
So it was a big deal for me because I did a lot of figure work.
And so it becomes problematic because people are like, well,
(18:09):
hey, like, you know, I can't work with you if you're under 18.
And I'm like, oh, my profile clearly says that I'm 30.
Like, I don't. Why is why is this an issue? you so I think that was like a big
thing for me starting out because I did have a look that was like very young
and so I wanted to be sure that I put my actual age up there so there was like no,
(18:32):
sort of discrepancies with like oh well I shot with this person and they were
underage so I wanted to be very clear about that yeah maybe some of those photographers
thought that you actually were underage and that you were lying about being
30 oh they did oh they absolutely Absolutely did.
I cannot tell you the number of people that reached out to me thinking I was
(18:52):
lying about my age. I was like, who says that they're 30?
That's not a thing. If you lie, you'd say you're like 23 or something like that.
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
So over the course of your career and all of the experiences that you've had,
all of us freelance models have some types of crazy stories.
(19:13):
I have this segment on the show that I call it the photo shoot fail of the week.
You can tell any kind of story that you want, though. But what's something crazy
or funny or just like memorable that's happened to you over your career?
Oh my God. I think one of the fails, so I'm going to share two.
(19:35):
I'm going to share a fail and then I'm going to share an amazing experience.
I think one of the fails was, and I cannot remember the photographer's name
and I don't even know if they are actually still working, but this was pretty early on.
I would probably say maybe six months after I was doing freelance work.
And I was doing bodyscape stuff with this photographer.
(19:59):
And we were at this hotel and it initially was going to be just the bodyscape stuff.
And then he wanted to shoot in the hallway at the hotel,
which I quickly put a kibosh on because I was like, you know,
having traveled a number of years and stayed in hotels frequently,
I was like, oftentimes there's like like cameras in the stairwell
(20:21):
of hotels where I was like no I have
a problem with that so that was nixed and then
we're doing the bodyscape thing and there's
like ice cubes and stuff that are involved with like the little figurines and
this photographer tried to go down on me in the shoot which I immediately was
like I said to him what in any of our communication either you know through
(20:49):
email or, you know, just in person gave you the impression that this was okay.
And his immediate response to that was, well, nothing.
I was just throwing it out there to see what would happen.
And I was just, I think I was just so taken back that I was like, I said, We're done.
(21:12):
The shoot is done. And the bad part about it, too, was that he was also my ride
because I met her at the time.
And so, you know, he was like super apologetic and was like,
you know, I'm so sorry. I said, the shoot is done.
Whatever you have, you have. You're not going to get anything else.
You know, I got dressed and I was like, I'm going to wait downstairs by the
(21:35):
car and I want to get dropped off.
So he got his things together and he like the whole time was like super apologetic.
But I think it was like the it was the very first time.
With doing any of the modeling freelance that I had had that experience.
And it really was just an eye opener to me of like,
(21:57):
okay, you, you set boundaries for yourself, but to also be a lot more clearer
in my communication with people about what their expectations were with what
was going to be happening at a shoot.
Because oftentimes I feel like there's a lot of fakeness that happens when people
are like, oh, we're just going to do like this sort of globe of things and we can sort of branch off.
(22:21):
And while I'm okay with that, with people that I have worked with, when it's someone new,
I now sort of like flush out more of that because it tends to be encompassing
of like other things like this where, oh, I'm going to just toss this out and
see how you feel about it.
And I don't want to be making those decisions on the spot at the shoot.
Like I want to be able to to be in a safe environment to say no to you and not
(22:45):
have to be relying on you for transportation or, or anything else in those situations.
So I think that was like one of the, one of the worst.
And then one of the best was actually pretty recently.
It was a group shoot for the photographer who wants to remain anonymous,
but it was just, it was amazing to be able to work with someone that really
(23:09):
was doing this for the art.
And it was a group shoot with several other models that I've worked with previously
and one that I hadn't worked with.
But the space that he had set up was a space specifically for creating.
There was a room for models to stretch and to exercise and do whatever they
(23:30):
needed to do prior to coming into the set for working together.
And just being able to be in that space to just not have the worry of,
oh, there's something unsafe that's going to be happening here.
You're going to be working in an unclean space.
None of that. It was really just all of, you know, all of us really sort of
(23:50):
remarked, oh, it feels very cult-like, that it's like, oh, everything's like very calming.
We even got to sit and watch this whole meditative video that was just music
and everything, just bringing you into like that creative space.
And then it really lent itself to us all working together and doing some amazing art.
So that was really, for me, like of my career, one of the most memorable experiences.
(24:16):
Experiences cool I love that I love that they
like the photographer was the one that put together the
idea of meditation together and everything yeah
yeah and then providing food for the event water
and like it was just the whole thing
was just like an unreal experience that I
you you're constantly pinching yourself like is this really happening
(24:37):
yeah even little things like offering snacks
like a lot of photographers don't realize that like
even if you're not hungry the fact that they offered you
a snack is just an acknowledgement that you're human too exactly
exactly yeah yeah but
that first crazy story like man like i
was thinking while you were telling that that good for you for sticking up for
(25:00):
yourself and ending the shoot because that can be kind of a scary thing to do
photographer who borderline sexually assaulted you exactly yeah and i i feel
like it It's also something, too, like when I started,
there wasn't a lot of discussion about those types of things happening,
(25:22):
but also nothing to even warn you about like, oh, hey.
Signs to watch out for when you're working with someone that might be sort of
predatory or anything like that.
It was really sort of a thing where you're out there in these spaces and you
kind of have to figure it out on your own. You know, and I think that now...
(25:43):
The model community has really sort of come together knowing that we've all
had sort of instances like this individually and coming together collectively
to share those things, to say, hey, you know what?
I had this experience and I had this experience too.
This stuff is not okay.
And there needs to be a discussion about it for us to find ways to support each
(26:07):
other for this stuff to not continue. Yeah, exactly.
And I am happy that we are moving more towards a community of safety,
but I still think that models who just got started out, regardless of their
age, if any model is just getting started out, they are the most vulnerable
(26:28):
to temporary situations.
And I think about this all the time, like what's a good way to get this information
to models who just started out. Exactly.
Yeah. And I do model mentoring, not necessarily strictly for photography modeling,
but especially for people that are in looking to get into art modeling for painting
(26:52):
and drawing and that sort of thing.
Cause it's, that's, it's, it's really the same aspect, but like in,
in terms of like training,
I feel like that's a whole other thing, but mentoring people to provide that
very information that you're talking about because they don't know and they have,
they don't know the signs and things to watch out for and red flags and things
(27:13):
that may seem to them as like,
oh, this is an exciting opportunity to a model that is more experienced.
It is an immediate red flag, but they don't have that information to know,
oh, hey, this is not the direction I should go in. Yeah. So.
Yeah. And unfortunately, a lot of those red flags are learned through experience.
(27:34):
Yeah, that's very true. Yeah. And I don't know about you, but I'm the kind of
person that learns best through experience, unfortunately.
So I have to mess up in order to learn how to not do it the wrong way.
Yeah. And sometimes I think that's fine. You want people to learn from their
experience, but for it to not be something that is so traumatic and life-altering
(27:59):
of a learning experience.
I think we all need those hands-on learning experiences for it to be meaningful to us,
but you want and hope that it's not something that's going to be so traumatic
that it is almost a deterrent from them going in that path altogether. You know, so.
(28:20):
So when you were getting into freelance modeling and getting in front of other
people's cameras, were you ever concerned about doing nude modeling for other people? No.
And I think probably because that's kind of where I started when I sort of took
the path of like doing it freelance,
(28:42):
because when I was with the agency, most of that work was going to be like clothes and fashion work.
And really, I sort of got into the figure work just out of my love for art and that sort of thing.
So it just it came very natural to me. that's cool it really did yeah.
(29:04):
And did you have any pushback from any friends or family?
Friends? No, I think I've been very good with keeping a separation with friends
and family in terms of who would be okay with this and who wouldn't be okay with this.
Again, I think that was part of my decision with what persona was I going to
(29:28):
put forward initially with me doing this line of work, because that does make a difference.
And I really just had two very separate lives and representations with my work
as a model versus my work personally or my interactions with people personally.
(29:49):
My modeling profiles and online representation is really for people who are in the industry.
So if you're not a model, you're not a photographer, I really don't have fans
that follow my work because I'm like, you're not in the industry.
And while I do support people being fans of my work, I actually have like a separate like fan page.
(30:13):
But in terms of just my strictly my modeling profiles, it's only,
they tend to be private and they're only open to people who are in the industry. street. I see.
Wow. It's good to kind of control your audience in that way. Cool.
It's been difficult. I'm not going to say that it's like an easy thing and it
is a lot harder to keep the separation with things, but it's what I've been
(30:39):
able to do for the past 15 years.
So who knows what will happen later, but yeah, it's worked thus far.
Wow. 15 years. Wow. I didn't know that you had been modeling for 15 years.
Yeah good time so yeah that was quite before any community started coming together
to like help each other out with safety information mhm.
(31:00):
I want to take a short little break to tell you about Model Society.
Modelsociety.com is a website dedicated to featuring figurative fine art photography
for models and photographers.
What makes them different than other portfolio hosting websites is that some
of those other websites will still host kind of tacky photography or exploitative photos.
(31:22):
Model Society screens all of their contributors for quality and authenticity.
So you only get the best of the best on
there if you're not a photographer or model you can still enjoy
and appreciate model society because they also have
newsletters and magazines featuring their best work and new articles each week
(31:43):
check it out modelsociety.com i will also include a link to model society in
the show notes all right now back to our show so i have another question that
I like to ask everybody on the show,
and I call it the rising Phoenix era of your life.
Can you describe a situation, and it could be related to your modeling or something
(32:05):
else, where you were faced with some kind of a challenge that you had to overcome?
I think the biggest one has been with my race with modeling.
And I think when I first started it out that has especially for figure work I got a lot of.
Feedback and a lot of response from people that I reached out to about me not
(32:30):
having a figure that represents what they would deem a classical figure for
figure work or art nude modeling.
So for me, that has been the biggest challenge for my modeling is really sort
of pushing past the the ideal of like what that representation is supposed to be.
(32:55):
Because I'm never going to be tall. My skin's never going to be lighter.
And I'm fine with that. But I also want people to sort of push past this ideal
of like what I should look like and what I should change about myself instead
of accepting who I am and what I represent and what I can bring to to art modeling
(33:16):
and figure modeling as a whole. Yeah.
And especially when you think that art is supposed to be about creativity,
but if different people's idea of art fits into this little box,
then where's the creativity?
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
(33:38):
So in working with that, are there ways that you've had to communicate with
people to work through that? There are.
And I think some of it has really been the people that have chosen to work with
me or that have, in their words, taken a chance in working with me.
It really has opened the doors for other people seeing that work to see what
(34:02):
I can do for them to be like, oh, okay, well, I see that you've worked with
this person or this person.
Like maybe I'll give you a chance because you've worked with this person and they
really enjoyed working with you and how you
create it with them and so giving me the opportunity so I think in that regard
there's definitely been doors that have been open with just me working with
(34:25):
the people who have the willingness to be like I like you as you are and I want
to create art with you as you are.
So it has been a challenge, but I think that if you don't really love this,
that you will get very disappointed and be crushed with the fact that,
(34:47):
okay, hey, I'm not working as much as maybe some other models in the industry because of this factor.
But also just realizing that if someone's not working with me because of a certain.
Aspect that they deem to not be artistic just
accepting that and moving on you
(35:10):
know there's sometimes not every door is a
door that you need to break down because there may be bees on
the other side of that door that you don't necessarily want to
let out you know what I mean and so I think that
was like a realization for me that it's like some
doors are worth breaking down and other doors or not
yeah yeah that's a good way of putting
(35:31):
it or thinking about things like I have
found in the past if a photographer doesn't seem.
Like they want to book with me and I
like try to put on the heat to pressure
them to those are the ones that usually cancel last
minute anyway yeah but the people that
are drawn to you are the people that are usually a positive experience
(35:54):
but with that being said though the industry
definitely the industry definitely
does have like a lot of
prejudice that's like subconscious for a
lot of people but possibly you
know conscious for a lot of these photographers and I
(36:14):
find it a red flag when photographers only shoot
one nationality and one body
type so and I've often gotten responses from
photographers that I've reached out to where they have no
models of color in their portfolio and say hey well you know I would love to
work with you like I love your work but I don't see like this representation
(36:38):
in your portfolio is this something that you just don't do and oftentimes what
I have gotten as a response is is, is that, oh.
I have not, I've not connected with a model that looks like you or,
which is always intriguing to me because my response to that is always like,
what connection are you seeking to work with the model?
(37:01):
Like you shoot every traveling model that comes through the area.
What, what is your connection with all those traveling models that come through
your area that you don't feel that you have with me specifically as a traveling
model who's also coming through the area.
So it's always things like that. Or I get the response of, oh,
(37:23):
well, I think your work is great.
I think you're amazing, but I don't have a specific project that I'm working
on that I think that you would be a fit for,
which is also a very underhanded way of saying I don't work with Because for
me, it is you do figure work.
I do figure work. It's the only thing that you do.
(37:46):
What specific project do you need to be working on to work with a model of color?
You know what I mean? So those are the type of like responses that are very
like, they're very cloaked.
Because I get a lot of those types of responses from photographers, and I always have.
And it's them not blanketly saying, I don't work with models of color,
(38:10):
but it is masked under the, oh, I need a specific project that I'm working on.
Oh, I don't work with models that don't have real hair, which I always find
funny because I'm like, all my hair is real and has always been real.
I've never had extensions, but I worked with a photographer once and he was
(38:31):
very upset when I said to him, you do realize that models of color are not the
only models that wear wigs and hair extensions.
And he was like, well, no, that's not true.
And I said, oh, it's absolutely true. Like, how do you think this happens?
Like you've been in this industry for 20 plus years and you You don't think
(38:53):
that anyone besides models of color are the only ones that wear wigs and hair extensions?
Yeah. I used hair extensions for many years and a lot of people didn't even like recognize it.
Exactly. So it was just like having conversations like that at shoots with photographers
(39:13):
is really just very eye-opening that there are these stereotypes that are out there.
Like I don't work with models of color because they're
all divas I have no idea where
that came from but it's also something that I have gotten in
response from photographers that you know I would love to work with you but
every other model of color I've worked with in the past has been very diva and
(39:36):
very demanding and I'm why I always say hey there's references for anybody that
I've worked with in my portfolio, you can reach out to them to ask.
So it's, there is a very different set of things, like as a model of color that
I sort of have to go into when I'm like reaching out to people,
(39:57):
knowing that these are some of the thoughts and stereotypes that are sort of
floating around in their head about me for working with me.
So it's, it is, it's very, it's, It's very interesting and challenging.
And, you know, sometimes you just have to let things roll off in order to to
(40:20):
be able to stay in the industry and still work and create because it it sometimes is very overwhelming.
Man, listening to you describe that, I am just trying to imagine how frustrating
that must be, especially when people are giving you like backhanded ways of
telling you that they don't have a project for you,
(40:42):
but it's kind of like you've heard it before and you know what they kind of means, you know.
Exactly. Totally. Like if you're going to call them out for that,
then it's going to create tension.
Right. Do you just leave that one and not contact that person again?
Or so I I usually just
say you know thanks for considering me
(41:05):
and keeping me in the loop and you know hopefully we'll work together you know
when they have a project in the future that they think best fits you know what
I can represent and then I just again I think it really goes back to the thing
of like me not there's some doors that are worth breaking down and then there are others that are not,
but also even when I am working with people that I'm like, you're a turd.
(41:33):
Professionalism, a hundred percent, because I do not have a problem with saying
to someone, this is completely out of line.
But even with me doing that to remain professional at all costs,
because they can go AWOL if they would like, and that's perfectly fine.
But I always try to make sure that even, even if I'm going to tell you off,
(41:55):
I'm going to tell you off in a professional manner.
And then you're free to do whatever you want with that.
But I said what I said in a way that I feel is still, you know.
Representational of telling it the way that it should be. Yeah.
Well, that's very professional of you. I might have a challenge if I were in
(42:18):
your shoes remaining professional,
but it sounds like you're very resilient and you have a way about you where
you can speak for yourself in those moments,
like in your story earlier, when you said that that photographer tried to go
down on you and you ended the shoot right there and you demanded that he take you home.
Like, if I was in that position, I mean, I have been in a similar situation,
(42:42):
and I did not handle it as eloquently as you did.
So I think that, you know, you deserve a lot of credit for that.
But I think it's hard to, like, being in those situations,
like, even if you've done research for people, and then you get blindsided with something,
(43:03):
it's hard to be in that moment and think about what should I be doing to get
myself out of this situation in a safe way?
You know, it's, it is like that situation actually ended up just working out the way that it did.
But I know that that's not always the way that it happens. And sometimes there
(43:24):
is violence that ends up happening.
So it, it is, it's difficult to say, like in a situation when something is happening, what would I do?
Like we try to prepare ourselves and have the resources and everything.
But when something comes out of left field, it is sometimes where you're in
(43:47):
the moment and you're handling it the best way that you know how to in that moment.
And then looking back, you say, oh, well, you know, I could have done something differently.
But your mind is in that protective mode at that moment.
And that's really, that's really what it needs to be in, in order for you to
get out of that situation, you know, and I just, there have definitely been
(44:09):
other situations that have not gone as smoothly.
So, you know, I think that we, we take it in stride, I think.
I'm glad that you've survived these situations and made it through to today.
But yeah, I mean, I've had similar situations where, like, usually my reaction when somebody,
(44:30):
you know, tries to sexually assault me at a shoot, which fortunately hasn't
happened in a long time, but it has happened is I go into kind of fawning mode
where, you know, I say, Oh, you know, please stop doing that.
Or I'll just shy away. But then I'm, I still want to finish the shoot because I want to get paid.
Yeah. I'll just be really nice, but I'll be like, oh, sorry, I'm uncomfortable.
(44:53):
But I know that sometimes models will freeze and they won't even be able to
say that they're uncomfortable or anything. Yeah.
It is a difficult situation to be put in because you're nude and you do want to get paid.
And so it's like, what do I do? Do I just say I'm done and hope that they don't hold your payment?
(45:17):
Or do I just walk out of the chute knowing, hey, well, I needed that money,
but I'm not going to take it because I'm deciding that this is done.
And I think it is one of the things with me forcing people now to read my boundaries
and expectations of working with me prior to anything else.
(45:39):
And I think it's because I learned about being in situations like that.
We're having to say after the fact that, okay, well, I'm ending the shoot because
you've made me uncomfortable and I feel unsafe, but I still expect to get paid
because you're the one that made a bad decision to do something.
It wasn't my fault. It was your fault.
So now it really is. I sort of just force people, hey, no shoot's taking place
(46:03):
until you've read through my boundaries to know if these things are happening
at the shoot, the shoot's ending, I'm still getting paid and I'm walking out.
Because if not, you do end up in situations exactly as you're talking about
where it's like, well, I'm here and how do I maneuver getting out of this without
them saying, well, you ended the shoot, so I'm now not going to pay you.
(46:25):
I'm your ride and you're trapped here and I'm not going to take you home.
It's a lot of pressure for the models to be in. It really is.
Yeah. And something that makes me feel comfortable in these situations is when
the photographer pays you at the beginning of the shoot.
That way, you know that if something happens, you
(46:46):
could just end it and exactly then you're
a part of the work and the photographer if they were out
of line then that's like you said that's on them yeah exactly
yeah and I think they're the instances where it has been where I felt like I'm
not sure how this is going to be but that's exactly what I have done is just
gotten my paper up front so that it's like okay well we're done here so it's
(47:13):
it I think I think part of this is too,
is the learning as we go along with what we need to do in order to stay safe and thrive in this.
Yeah. And then building your community and your network of photographers that you enjoy working with.
As I look at your photos on Instagram and on your portfolio,
(47:34):
I see like such variety of like different genres,
but a lot of the photos that even if they're of different genres,
they have some kind of a cohesive vibe.
And the only way that I can describe it is like Like sort of,
sort of you have an ethereal vibe to a lot of your films.
And so is that intentional?
(47:56):
It is. I do. I love surreal stuff, but I also love ethereal stuff.
And I think one of the things when I started, that was like something I sort
of gravitated to because I love vintage things, but I also love modern things.
And I also love bringing those two things together.
And shooting the ethereal work is a lot of work that when I started,
(48:20):
it was difficult for me to,
get people to allow me to do that work because it was like, oh,
well, I don't really think you have that sort of a vibe for doing that.
I'm like, no, no, no, this is what I want to do.
So I do, I enjoy doing that, but I also love just experimenting and doing,
like you said, at a wide variety of things I love
(48:42):
doing surreal work it's my really
sort of goal is if it is something that is creative like
I enjoy exploring that so never to be in a box yeah with my work is always like
reaching outside of that to see what I can and can't do yeah and that definitely
(49:03):
appeals Appeals to a wider variety of photographers, too.
Yeah. Yeah. And I've definitely, in my past, been put in a box.
Like, there was a period of time where only glamour photographers were hiring me.
And because those were the only photos that I had out there,
those were the only photographers that wanted to hire me.
So the idea that somebody says, oh, I don't want you to do the ethereal vibe
(49:27):
because I don't think that's you, resonate with how that feels when somebody
says that because it's very like aggravating.
Yes, it is. It is very aggravating because you're like, just give me a chance.
I know I can do this thing.
Yeah, it's in doing your own photography as well.
(49:50):
Like are some of the photos that you post also self-portraits?
So I have a different Instagram, but on my website, I do have,
there's like a few that I do have on my website that it's like my photography
and I actually need to put up more of it. I just, I've had it in different places.
(50:10):
And so I've kind of the last few years been trying to sort of condense it down into fewer places.
So there is a little bit of my self-portrait work on my website.
That's cool. Yeah, I've done some self portraits also.
And I find that if another photographer doesn't want to shoot some kind of a
(50:32):
vibe with me, at least you could shoot that of yourself. Yes.
Display it, which will attract other photographers to hopefully want to shoot
that vibe with you too. Yeah, I've definitely done a lot of that.
And I actually lost like nine years of photography work backing up a drive.
(50:52):
Do not do this, people. Do not decide that at 3 a.m.
You're going to back up a drive that you have, which is what I did.
And it was encrypted but it was encrypted outside of
my laptop so it was independently encrypted and I
decided I was gonna just this one last thing before
going to bed and lost nine years worth of photography
(51:13):
work because of it so just wait
till the next day and do it it's not
worth it that sucks wow
there's definitely some tears shed for that drive
so earlier in the podcast you You mentioned that for a while you had three jobs
and you were doing photography in between that and some modeling in between
(51:37):
and that your career has evolved and you've worked with artists who paint you
and sculpt you and you've done some model mentoring.
Today, what is your scope of work like?
Is it mostly freelance modeling for photo shoots? Are you still doing the figure
modeling or do you have any of those other jobs that you mentioned at the same time now too?
(52:00):
I am currently a full-time model and I have been the past, I guess,
almost 10 years, I guess, I've been full-time modeling.
So I still model for classes, for painting and drawing, doing workshops for that.
And then I'm a traveling model.
That's amazing. And how long are your trips usually?
(52:22):
Well, it depends. Last year, I had a really long one because I like doing cross-country
stuff because I'm originally from California.
So I always go back to the West Coast every year.
So I usually do like a cross-country while drive back to the West Coast and,
you know, work going over and then work coming back.
(52:42):
So I love traveling and the fact that I can actually meld art creating and traveling
together in the same profession is like amazing to me.
So I utilize it to the full extent.
Yeah, that's cool. So where are you now and then where are you going to be touring
(53:04):
through in the next month or two?
So I'm currently on the East Coast and probably for the next few months,
that's where I will be touring is primarily on the East Coast.
And I think a lot of that too is because usually in the fall term,
I do a lot of painting and drawing classes and workshops and things like that.
(53:25):
So I try to stay pretty central to a location that's sort of like a home base
for doing those and then travel a lot more like winter and summer.
Yeah any particular trips that you want to advertise photographers you might
be listening to the podcast you might want to hire you i will be in the massachusetts
(53:48):
area next weekend oh cool if anybody's in the area that hasn't booked with me
already i will be there for,
until tuesday cool i've only been to massachusetts once but i thought it was
beautiful yeah it is It is. It is.
And Maine too. If anybody hasn't been to Maine, I love Maine.
(54:10):
Really? We're just over there.
Yeah. Are there decent- Gotta go to Acadia.
Acadia? Acadia. Yeah. It's that park that's up there, but it's amazing.
There's so many places to hike and there's a lot of trails that look like it's
literally a page from like Lord of the Rings or something where you just walk
(54:32):
down and it's just like, it looks just untouched.
So it's very cool. That's cool.
Are there a decent amount of photographers that you work with up there?
I've worked with a couple of people, but when I've been there,
I've also done a lot of self-portrait work when I've been there,
which was some of the work from there was actually some of the work that I lost
(54:54):
in the drive I was attempting to back up.
But yeah, I've done a lot of self portrait work when I've been there,
just because it's such a scenic area there.
So it sounds beautiful. Yeah. So you when you're traveling in your car,
do you like sometimes sleep in your car?
Do you get like hotels or crash with people?
(55:16):
Oh, yeah, I'm I'm a roadie for sure. I definitely sleep in my car.
And being four foot 11 really lends itself to sleeping in one.
Because I can actually my driver's seat is heated.
And it was one of the really one of the things when I got my car that I was like,
it has to have heated seats because all my cars have had heated seats
but it almost fully reclines and it's
(55:38):
heated but also the second row
seat is also heated seats and i can pretty much lay full out on that second
row seat so if i don't have too much stuff i'm traveling with but yeah i i definitely
do a lot of a lot of car car sleeping cool there definitely are some benefits
to being yeah yeah there are yeah Yeah.
(56:01):
And there's lots of shower options like it, like the truck stop thing.
So I do not stop at rest stops.
That was like something I learned from like just traveling long before I started modeling.
Like usually I only stop at rest stops like during the daylight hours,
but I don't stop at them at night hours.
(56:22):
And then I saw the movie Rest Stop and that really just confirmed all my horrors
about stopping at rest stops. So I usually will stop at Trek stops.
Are rest stops generally dangerous? Well, you know, I think for me,
I really never cared for the fact that they were always set back away from the
freeway where I'm like, anything can happen back there.
(56:44):
And then I saw the movie Rest Stop, which is a horror movie for those people that don't know.
And it really just I was like, oh, my God, see, this is why you don't stop at rest stops.
But usually at like truck stops, there's cameras and everything else.
So it's like, you know, at least if you're there, someone's going to know that you were there. Yeah.
(57:06):
Yeah. I mean, I've stayed at a couple rest stops, but I think that when I was
doing that, I was with my boyfriend in a van. So not by myself.
I haven't seen that movie, but it's on my list now.
So speaking of horror movies, I think I saw a photo on your page that looked
like Samara from The Ring homes.
Oh, my God. I had so much fun doing that. Yes, it is. Yes, I did.
(57:30):
So during the during the pandemic, I did a lot of online sessions,
both for photography and then like painting, drawing things.
And so I did this drawing session where it was like it was Halloween themed.
So I had this whole setup where and they were painting and drawing where I was
(57:51):
like the scene where she comes out of the television. Yeah.
So I did a whole remake of like that whole thing.
So every time I think it was like five, five minute poses, I would get closer
and closer to the camera.
So that was, and then we, and then I did a photo shoot with it because I was,
I had already done all the paint and everything.
(58:12):
So yeah, it was, it was fun.
I enjoyed doing that. I love when I see like horror themes in people's portfolios,
because it tells me that you don't take yourself too seriously and you're willing to do like fun,
weird concept, which I think that, you know, resonates with a lot of photographers out there.
Yeah, it does. Yeah.
(58:35):
And I laugh at myself a lot. So, you know, it's good. It all works out.
Well, Gazelle, I'm really happy that we had the chance to do this.
I feel like I've gotten to know you a bit over the course of this podcast.
So thank you for taking the time.
Well, thank you so much for having me and for asking me.
And I appreciate your patience with like, you know, for things to align for us to make this happen.
(59:01):
Oh, yeah, for sure. Like, you know, these podcast episodes are just for fun
and to like, you know, connect with the community. So it's always no pressure.
Yeah. Well, I'm thrilled to be a part of the community.
Absolutely. All right. Well, I'll touch base with you soon about getting an
image for the thumbnail.
And other than that, thanks again for being on the show. And I'll talk to you soon.
(59:23):
All right. You're welcome. Thanks. Have a great day. Bye, Giselle.
Music.
Music.
(00:06):
Sunrise Life, the podcast where we have deep conversations with fellow freelance models.
And today I have Gazelle Powers on the line. Say hello.
Hi, thrilled to be here. Thanks. I've been following your page for a little
while and I've been wanting to interview you for, I think, a couple months now.
And I'm so glad to be able to line up our schedules for this.
(00:28):
Likewise, likewise. Likewise. I've been looking forward to it,
actually. Yeah, thanks.
So tell me the story of how you first got into modeling.
Well, it's a little interesting, I guess. I actually do photography of my own.
And so my segue into modeling was really through my own photography work.
(00:51):
I've done photography pretty much for as long as I can remember and kind of
grew up in a household where cameras were always around and we always took pictures
and I always had a camera.
And that was like one of my biggest gifts was like getting my grandmother's like Polaroid camera.
So really just have always had the exposure to photography and never really
(01:13):
did like specifically formal training to learn really mostly self-taught and
never really being in my photos either.
Like I did a lot of landscape, a lot of abstract stuff, but never really being
in my photos other than if someone was taking group photos or anything.
(01:33):
And so really sort of my segue into it was like, oh, hey,
I thought it was an interesting thing because it's art
and deciding before stepping in front of someone else's camera or modeling for
anyone that I should probably try photographing myself First is just to see
(01:53):
like how comfortable I was with doing it and realizing that,
oh, my God, it is so much harder than I thought it was going to be.
Not from the aspect of like being in front of the camera, because I felt like
that was sort of like a normal transition for me, but really just.
The I guess the the framework of
(02:16):
what's required when you're in front of the camera realizing like
where the camera is like lighting and composition
and like all of those things are really like important when you're in front
of the camera and I really had no idea about that from the modeling side of
it so I actually modeled for myself for a little over a year before I stepped
(02:38):
up in front of anybody else's lens for photography.
But during that time, I was also modeling for artists individually for painting
and drawing and doing classes and open sessions.
So all of that really sort of built into my modeling for photography.
And I did actually start out with an agent and quickly realized that was not
(03:04):
my segue for things because there were really expectations for what being an
agency model meant and realizing I was not industry standard because I'm short.
So that was really like a big realization of like, oh, hey, you can't do this
as an agency represented model because there's like all these qualifiers that you don't meet.
(03:30):
And just really things that I wasn't willing to do as a model to move forward
in the industry as an agency-represented model.
So it was really a lot of decision-making on my part to just do it freelance and do my own thing.
Yeah, actually, I was looking at your website right before we started this,
(03:52):
and I saw that you brought up your petite-ness. And I was like,
oh, how petite is four foot? It was quite.
Yeah. Yeah. I never would have guessed that.
Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things with the agency that they had suggested was stretching.
And for those that don't know, when I started modeling, I was already what people
(04:15):
would consider an older model because I didn't start modeling until I was 30.
So that was like that was already
a strike against me you know being with the agency starting out
because I was an older model but also I was underweight under height and so
it was like really like this long list of things where it's like if you want
(04:35):
agency representation these are the things that you need to change about yourself
in order to have that representation in order to to get more work and be more visible.
And it was just as an older model and having already done a lot of corporate
work and a lot of other things, freelance for other things, it was just,
I wasn't willing to do all of those things to myself physically.
(05:00):
Changes that I felt were not healthy, but also just...
As an older person, I was like, yeah, I don't really want to devote my time
to doing those things because I don't think it's going to benefit me in the
way that I'm being told that it will.
So it was, you know, that was really the decision to just be freelance at that point.
(05:23):
Wow. So the agency that you had initially began working with,
what kind of models or what kind of work did they generally like do for people?
Was it commercial or fashion, or did they also have artistic projects that they represented?
So it was mostly commercial. There was a lot of runway stuff,
(05:43):
which was also the issue with me is because I was only four foot 11,
it was, well, you're not going to be able to get a lot of gigs,
you know, doing runway stuff, even though I learned to walk runway.
But that was the problem with that. It was, you need to be at least five,
nine to do any of the projects for this.
I actually had gone on a casting where it was supposed to be a runway thing
(06:08):
for wedding dresses and it was supposed to be like a diverse thing for wedding dresses.
And then I got there and even with submitting my stats and stuff ahead of time,
I got there and there was nothing that would fit me. Like everything was too big.
And so I ended up being there and not being able to walk because they were like,
(06:30):
we don't have anything that will fit you. So I, I ended up just standing around
backstage because they didn't have anything to fit me.
So it really was for me like a challenge just breaking into the industry.
And I love clothing because I make a lot of my own clothing.
So that aspect realizing, okay, hey, I'm not going to be able to go into it
(06:53):
in like the fashion area,
which is kind of where I was going with signing up with that agency because
I didn't have, you know, the look and the build and the height that they were
saying was a requirement for going in that direction.
That's cool that you make your own clothing. Did you start doing that partly
(07:13):
because like mainstream fashion type stuff isn't there? I, oh, it's funny.
Actually, my mom taught all of us how to sew. And I really started doing it
because I hate shopping. I really do.
But clothes shopping more so because...
I would go in and try things on and nothing fit. And I just got tired of like
(07:37):
going in the store and trying on things and nothing would fit.
And so when I started modeling, that was one of the things where it was like
photographers would request like certain wardrobe and stuff.
And then spending time trying to find various things where it was like,
okay, well, maybe I can find this,
maybe I won't find this, but also just not being able to devote the time needed
(08:01):
to do deep diving for shopping when I was working three jobs at the time.
So it just wasn't an efficient way for me to utilize my time and resources.
So I was like, okay, what can I do to sort of like Like have wardrobe,
but have wardrobe that I would like that's unique.
(08:24):
And so I started, I started sewing again. That's cool.
That's so cool. I've always wanted to have like more motivation and time to
like make my own outfits as well.
But it's very cool that you do that. Do you sell any of it?
I haven't. And I've had a lot of people requesting me making things for them.
(08:46):
And I have done, taken on special projects and done things. like I've made my
friends' bridesmaids dress.
But there's a lot of fun aspect that gets taken out of it when you're commissioned
to do things on a larger scale, and especially when you're doing it for money-making.
There are several projects that I have in the works for doing something in the future in that vein.
(09:13):
But right now, it's really just me focusing on.
Are doing fun things that I enjoy doing and making.
So, yeah. So you started out with the agency and then the agency didn't work out.
What was the transition like when you exited trying that agency out and then
(09:33):
going into freelance modeling?
The transition with that was actually pretty seamless for me.
And I think most of that was was because when I started with the agency,
like I said, I was still working full time.
So I had a day job. I had a night job. I had a weekend job as a PCA.
(09:53):
And then what I would do is I would do photo shoots like in between.
So usually whenever I had like a shorter night during the week,
I would do a shoot or on the weekends.
If I finished earlier, I was like working shoots disputes in between those on the weekends.
So it was a pretty easy transition for me to sort of walk away from the agency
(10:16):
just because I didn't feel like it aligned with what I wanted to do.
And I found more success doing the freelance stuff.
And I think some of that was because I already had the experience doing freelance
from my prior career work.
So it wasn't a hard transition for me to just be like, well,
what do I need to do to do this freelance?
(10:39):
And really just, it took just putting in time and research with finding people
to connect with and to work with.
And a lot of that really did come from the art classes and the artists that
I was working with individually for painting and drawing.
Cause a lot of them either already knew photographers or knew other people that
might be interested in me modeling them for them,
(11:02):
for reference images, for their artwork so a
lot of my segue into that really sort of started
with me being in the art community and working
with people painting and drawing wow that's cool
that's like a very like organic to instead of having to like hustle online and
like shoot in the dark you already had people that you were connected to through
(11:23):
the art community that you were already participating in that's pretty cool
yeah and I definitely did a lot of the the hustle online with like reaching out to people.
Because I, I mean, I literally had no experience or knowledge about what.
Photography modeling was. And I had, I spent a lot of time in college.
(11:44):
I had taken a lot of art classes. So in the realm for like painting and drawing,
I already had my hands and feet in the water in that realm, but I didn't have
it in the realm of like photography modeling.
And so that was like the new sort of, you know, place for me where I did have
to do a ton of research and a lot of cold calling and a lot of just like,
(12:08):
okay, well, we'll see what happens with this to figure it all out. Yeah.
That's cool. In today's community of modeling and photography.
I've witnessed that other models that are doing this full time are often willing to be helpful.
Was that helpful for you too? I think when I started, I didn't find a ton of
(12:36):
models sharing information like there is now.
There's a ton of information with searching or models that are willing to share
information and resources and things like that. I did have to do a lot of just
like spending time, just like, how do I figure this out?
Or trial and error and like going out and being like, oh, okay,
(12:58):
well, that just happened.
That was not a good thing. But I think some of it was, too, again,
because I already had the experience from being freelance in a different profession,
I really sort of pivoted that into my photography modeling and like trying to
figure out, OK, what do I need to do to make this work and finding resources?
(13:22):
And I was an employment specialist for people in the past, and I've done hiring
and firing. So a lot of that stuff is stuff that I sort of pulled from with
trying to find work as a photography model.
Wow. So when you started, did you start with Model Mayhem?
Which is funny because I actually knew about Model Mayhem like pretty early on,
(13:46):
but I really wanted to build up a portfolio and work with people before I actually
had an online presence or an online portfolio.
So I would probably say I probably spent a good year just working with people
before I even put up any online portfolio or presence or anything,
(14:11):
because I really just sort of wanted to work through like the persona that I wanted to have visible,
what I wanted to have visible as a business, all of that.
All of that stuff is stuff that I sort of wanted to work on and sort of work
out the nuances of it all before I even had an online presence, so to speak.
So it was probably about a year before I even set up a profile on Model Mayhem
(14:33):
or Model Society or there's a couple other places that I can't even remember now. But yeah.
That's great. It seems like a very calculated and thought out approach where
a lot of other models that I know, when they first get into modeling,
they're not thinking about creating a persona and sometimes not even creating a modeling alias.
(14:56):
They just kind of like, yeah, get their picture taken, start posting on their
personal page, get backlash from their personal friends and family.
It branches off into modeling, but it sounds like you went a route that was
a lot more calculated, which I don't, I don't really hear of that happening as often.
So I think that's a really cool and unique, like launch, like a very thought out launch. Yeah.
(15:22):
And I think at the time when I was doing it, I felt a little bit like I was
stifling myself and holding myself back from being able to progress because of it.
Because I kept getting a lot of people saying, oh, well, you don't have an online
presence yet. When are you going to do that?
You should really have that out there. And when I was in that space.
(15:43):
I really felt like I'm behind everyone else that's out there because everyone else did have that.
And I was like, okay, maybe I'm doing this the wrong way with doing it.
But I am super thankful looking back on it now that I did actually take the
time to just foster what I wanted to present out because it did make a difference
for me in the long run for sure.
(16:04):
Yeah, I imagine coming on strong when you first finally launched your portfolio,
a lot of people probably viewed you as a professional right from the beginning
of that being launched instead of trying to take advantage of you for TFP all the time.
Yeah, I definitely still got it, but it did, it definitely did help me sort
(16:24):
of, what is the word I'm thinking of, deter quite a bit of that, I think.
Yeah. That's cool. Also starting in your 30s probably automatically deters certain
people from contacting you. It did.
And I didn't, you know, I didn't know it at the time when I started that,
you know, I kept seeing people saying, oh, well, you know, where you're an older model.
(16:46):
And then I had people reaching out to me by the time I did actually put up my
model mayhem saying, hey, you know, I see your age on here.
But then, you know, have you updated the images that you have in your profile
because they all look really young? And it's like, well, no,
those were taken like two weeks ago, like yesterday.
(17:06):
So this is my current look. So I think that was the, the big thing that I had
to deal with is that, like you said, some people search where there's a cutoff
where, you know, it's like, you know, 22, 23, 25.
And I was well outside of that. And I was accepting of that when I started because
I was like, this is who I am.
(17:27):
If you're going to work with me, you're going to work with me.
If not, you know, there's nothing I can do about that.
But my age is my age, you know.
You didn't want to lie about your age because there are a lot of people that
might do that just for marketing purposes.
And I think for me, I had a little bit of the reverse with that because I do
(17:47):
look very young. And so...
Putting my actual age on there was really a thing for me because oftentimes
people think, you know, when I first started out, they thought I was under 18.
So it was a big deal for me because I did a lot of figure work.
And so it becomes problematic because people are like, well,
(18:09):
hey, like, you know, I can't work with you if you're under 18.
And I'm like, oh, my profile clearly says that I'm 30.
Like, I don't. Why is why is this an issue? you so I think that was like a big
thing for me starting out because I did have a look that was like very young
and so I wanted to be sure that I put my actual age up there so there was like no,
(18:32):
sort of discrepancies with like oh well I shot with this person and they were
underage so I wanted to be very clear about that yeah maybe some of those photographers
thought that you actually were underage and that you were lying about being
30 oh they did oh they absolutely Absolutely did.
I cannot tell you the number of people that reached out to me thinking I was
(18:52):
lying about my age. I was like, who says that they're 30?
That's not a thing. If you lie, you'd say you're like 23 or something like that.
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
So over the course of your career and all of the experiences that you've had,
all of us freelance models have some types of crazy stories.
(19:13):
I have this segment on the show that I call it the photo shoot fail of the week.
You can tell any kind of story that you want, though. But what's something crazy
or funny or just like memorable that's happened to you over your career?
Oh my God. I think one of the fails, so I'm going to share two.
(19:35):
I'm going to share a fail and then I'm going to share an amazing experience.
I think one of the fails was, and I cannot remember the photographer's name
and I don't even know if they are actually still working, but this was pretty early on.
I would probably say maybe six months after I was doing freelance work.
And I was doing bodyscape stuff with this photographer.
(19:59):
And we were at this hotel and it initially was going to be just the bodyscape stuff.
And then he wanted to shoot in the hallway at the hotel,
which I quickly put a kibosh on because I was like, you know,
having traveled a number of years and stayed in hotels frequently,
I was like, oftentimes there's like like cameras in the stairwell
(20:21):
of hotels where I was like no I have
a problem with that so that was nixed and then
we're doing the bodyscape thing and there's
like ice cubes and stuff that are involved with like the little figurines and
this photographer tried to go down on me in the shoot which I immediately was
like I said to him what in any of our communication either you know through
(20:49):
email or, you know, just in person gave you the impression that this was okay.
And his immediate response to that was, well, nothing.
I was just throwing it out there to see what would happen.
And I was just, I think I was just so taken back that I was like, I said, We're done.
(21:12):
The shoot is done. And the bad part about it, too, was that he was also my ride
because I met her at the time.
And so, you know, he was like super apologetic and was like,
you know, I'm so sorry. I said, the shoot is done.
Whatever you have, you have. You're not going to get anything else.
You know, I got dressed and I was like, I'm going to wait downstairs by the
(21:35):
car and I want to get dropped off.
So he got his things together and he like the whole time was like super apologetic.
But I think it was like the it was the very first time.
With doing any of the modeling freelance that I had had that experience.
And it really was just an eye opener to me of like,
(21:57):
okay, you, you set boundaries for yourself, but to also be a lot more clearer
in my communication with people about what their expectations were with what
was going to be happening at a shoot.
Because oftentimes I feel like there's a lot of fakeness that happens when people
are like, oh, we're just going to do like this sort of globe of things and we can sort of branch off.
(22:21):
And while I'm okay with that, with people that I have worked with, when it's someone new,
I now sort of like flush out more of that because it tends to be encompassing
of like other things like this where, oh, I'm going to just toss this out and
see how you feel about it.
And I don't want to be making those decisions on the spot at the shoot.
Like I want to be able to to be in a safe environment to say no to you and not
(22:45):
have to be relying on you for transportation or, or anything else in those situations.
So I think that was like one of the, one of the worst.
And then one of the best was actually pretty recently.
It was a group shoot for the photographer who wants to remain anonymous,
but it was just, it was amazing to be able to work with someone that really
(23:09):
was doing this for the art.
And it was a group shoot with several other models that I've worked with previously
and one that I hadn't worked with.
But the space that he had set up was a space specifically for creating.
There was a room for models to stretch and to exercise and do whatever they
(23:30):
needed to do prior to coming into the set for working together.
And just being able to be in that space to just not have the worry of,
oh, there's something unsafe that's going to be happening here.
You're going to be working in an unclean space.
None of that. It was really just all of, you know, all of us really sort of
(23:50):
remarked, oh, it feels very cult-like, that it's like, oh, everything's like very calming.
We even got to sit and watch this whole meditative video that was just music
and everything, just bringing you into like that creative space.
And then it really lent itself to us all working together and doing some amazing art.
So that was really, for me, like of my career, one of the most memorable experiences.
(24:16):
Experiences cool I love that I love that they
like the photographer was the one that put together the
idea of meditation together and everything yeah
yeah and then providing food for the event water
and like it was just the whole thing
was just like an unreal experience that I
you you're constantly pinching yourself like is this really happening
(24:37):
yeah even little things like offering snacks
like a lot of photographers don't realize that like
even if you're not hungry the fact that they offered you
a snack is just an acknowledgement that you're human too exactly
exactly yeah yeah but
that first crazy story like man like i
was thinking while you were telling that that good for you for sticking up for
(25:00):
yourself and ending the shoot because that can be kind of a scary thing to do
photographer who borderline sexually assaulted you exactly yeah and i i feel
like it It's also something, too, like when I started,
there wasn't a lot of discussion about those types of things happening,
(25:22):
but also nothing to even warn you about like, oh, hey.
Signs to watch out for when you're working with someone that might be sort of
predatory or anything like that.
It was really sort of a thing where you're out there in these spaces and you
kind of have to figure it out on your own. You know, and I think that now...
(25:43):
The model community has really sort of come together knowing that we've all
had sort of instances like this individually and coming together collectively
to share those things, to say, hey, you know what?
I had this experience and I had this experience too.
This stuff is not okay.
And there needs to be a discussion about it for us to find ways to support each
(26:07):
other for this stuff to not continue. Yeah, exactly.
And I am happy that we are moving more towards a community of safety,
but I still think that models who just got started out, regardless of their
age, if any model is just getting started out, they are the most vulnerable
(26:28):
to temporary situations.
And I think about this all the time, like what's a good way to get this information
to models who just started out. Exactly.
Yeah. And I do model mentoring, not necessarily strictly for photography modeling,
but especially for people that are in looking to get into art modeling for painting
(26:52):
and drawing and that sort of thing.
Cause it's, that's, it's, it's really the same aspect, but like in,
in terms of like training,
I feel like that's a whole other thing, but mentoring people to provide that
very information that you're talking about because they don't know and they have,
they don't know the signs and things to watch out for and red flags and things
(27:13):
that may seem to them as like,
oh, this is an exciting opportunity to a model that is more experienced.
It is an immediate red flag, but they don't have that information to know,
oh, hey, this is not the direction I should go in. Yeah. So.
Yeah. And unfortunately, a lot of those red flags are learned through experience.
(27:34):
Yeah, that's very true. Yeah. And I don't know about you, but I'm the kind of
person that learns best through experience, unfortunately.
So I have to mess up in order to learn how to not do it the wrong way.
Yeah. And sometimes I think that's fine. You want people to learn from their
experience, but for it to not be something that is so traumatic and life-altering
(27:59):
of a learning experience.
I think we all need those hands-on learning experiences for it to be meaningful to us,
but you want and hope that it's not something that's going to be so traumatic
that it is almost a deterrent from them going in that path altogether. You know, so.
(28:20):
So when you were getting into freelance modeling and getting in front of other
people's cameras, were you ever concerned about doing nude modeling for other people? No.
And I think probably because that's kind of where I started when I sort of took
the path of like doing it freelance,
(28:42):
because when I was with the agency, most of that work was going to be like clothes and fashion work.
And really, I sort of got into the figure work just out of my love for art and that sort of thing.
So it just it came very natural to me. that's cool it really did yeah.
(29:04):
And did you have any pushback from any friends or family?
Friends? No, I think I've been very good with keeping a separation with friends
and family in terms of who would be okay with this and who wouldn't be okay with this.
Again, I think that was part of my decision with what persona was I going to
(29:28):
put forward initially with me doing this line of work, because that does make a difference.
And I really just had two very separate lives and representations with my work
as a model versus my work personally or my interactions with people personally.
(29:49):
My modeling profiles and online representation is really for people who are in the industry.
So if you're not a model, you're not a photographer, I really don't have fans
that follow my work because I'm like, you're not in the industry.
And while I do support people being fans of my work, I actually have like a separate like fan page.
(30:13):
But in terms of just my strictly my modeling profiles, it's only,
they tend to be private and they're only open to people who are in the industry. street. I see.
Wow. It's good to kind of control your audience in that way. Cool.
It's been difficult. I'm not going to say that it's like an easy thing and it
is a lot harder to keep the separation with things, but it's what I've been
(30:39):
able to do for the past 15 years.
So who knows what will happen later, but yeah, it's worked thus far.
Wow. 15 years. Wow. I didn't know that you had been modeling for 15 years.
Yeah good time so yeah that was quite before any community started coming together
to like help each other out with safety information mhm.
(31:00):
I want to take a short little break to tell you about Model Society.
Modelsociety.com is a website dedicated to featuring figurative fine art photography
for models and photographers.
What makes them different than other portfolio hosting websites is that some
of those other websites will still host kind of tacky photography or exploitative photos.
(31:22):
Model Society screens all of their contributors for quality and authenticity.
So you only get the best of the best on
there if you're not a photographer or model you can still enjoy
and appreciate model society because they also have
newsletters and magazines featuring their best work and new articles each week
(31:43):
check it out modelsociety.com i will also include a link to model society in
the show notes all right now back to our show so i have another question that
I like to ask everybody on the show,
and I call it the rising Phoenix era of your life.
Can you describe a situation, and it could be related to your modeling or something
(32:05):
else, where you were faced with some kind of a challenge that you had to overcome?
I think the biggest one has been with my race with modeling.
And I think when I first started it out that has especially for figure work I got a lot of.
Feedback and a lot of response from people that I reached out to about me not
(32:30):
having a figure that represents what they would deem a classical figure for
figure work or art nude modeling.
So for me, that has been the biggest challenge for my modeling is really sort
of pushing past the the ideal of like what that representation is supposed to be.
(32:55):
Because I'm never going to be tall. My skin's never going to be lighter.
And I'm fine with that. But I also want people to sort of push past this ideal
of like what I should look like and what I should change about myself instead
of accepting who I am and what I represent and what I can bring to to art modeling
(33:16):
and figure modeling as a whole. Yeah.
And especially when you think that art is supposed to be about creativity,
but if different people's idea of art fits into this little box,
then where's the creativity?
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
(33:38):
So in working with that, are there ways that you've had to communicate with
people to work through that? There are.
And I think some of it has really been the people that have chosen to work with
me or that have, in their words, taken a chance in working with me.
It really has opened the doors for other people seeing that work to see what
(34:02):
I can do for them to be like, oh, okay, well, I see that you've worked with
this person or this person.
Like maybe I'll give you a chance because you've worked with this person and they
really enjoyed working with you and how you
create it with them and so giving me the opportunity so I think in that regard
there's definitely been doors that have been open with just me working with
(34:25):
the people who have the willingness to be like I like you as you are and I want
to create art with you as you are.
So it has been a challenge, but I think that if you don't really love this,
that you will get very disappointed and be crushed with the fact that,
(34:47):
okay, hey, I'm not working as much as maybe some other models in the industry because of this factor.
But also just realizing that if someone's not working with me because of a certain.
Aspect that they deem to not be artistic just
accepting that and moving on you
(35:10):
know there's sometimes not every door is a
door that you need to break down because there may be bees on
the other side of that door that you don't necessarily want to
let out you know what I mean and so I think that
was like a realization for me that it's like some
doors are worth breaking down and other doors or not
yeah yeah that's a good way of putting
(35:31):
it or thinking about things like I have
found in the past if a photographer doesn't seem.
Like they want to book with me and I
like try to put on the heat to pressure
them to those are the ones that usually cancel last
minute anyway yeah but the people that
are drawn to you are the people that are usually a positive experience
(35:54):
but with that being said though the industry
definitely the industry definitely
does have like a lot of
prejudice that's like subconscious for a
lot of people but possibly you
know conscious for a lot of these photographers and I
(36:14):
find it a red flag when photographers only shoot
one nationality and one body
type so and I've often gotten responses from
photographers that I've reached out to where they have no
models of color in their portfolio and say hey well you know I would love to
work with you like I love your work but I don't see like this representation
(36:38):
in your portfolio is this something that you just don't do and oftentimes what
I have gotten as a response is is, is that, oh.
I have not, I've not connected with a model that looks like you or,
which is always intriguing to me because my response to that is always like,
what connection are you seeking to work with the model?
(37:01):
Like you shoot every traveling model that comes through the area.
What, what is your connection with all those traveling models that come through
your area that you don't feel that you have with me specifically as a traveling
model who's also coming through the area.
So it's always things like that. Or I get the response of, oh,
(37:23):
well, I think your work is great.
I think you're amazing, but I don't have a specific project that I'm working
on that I think that you would be a fit for,
which is also a very underhanded way of saying I don't work with Because for
me, it is you do figure work.
I do figure work. It's the only thing that you do.
(37:46):
What specific project do you need to be working on to work with a model of color?
You know what I mean? So those are the type of like responses that are very
like, they're very cloaked.
Because I get a lot of those types of responses from photographers, and I always have.
And it's them not blanketly saying, I don't work with models of color,
(38:10):
but it is masked under the, oh, I need a specific project that I'm working on.
Oh, I don't work with models that don't have real hair, which I always find
funny because I'm like, all my hair is real and has always been real.
I've never had extensions, but I worked with a photographer once and he was
(38:31):
very upset when I said to him, you do realize that models of color are not the
only models that wear wigs and hair extensions.
And he was like, well, no, that's not true.
And I said, oh, it's absolutely true. Like, how do you think this happens?
Like you've been in this industry for 20 plus years and you You don't think
(38:53):
that anyone besides models of color are the only ones that wear wigs and hair extensions?
Yeah. I used hair extensions for many years and a lot of people didn't even like recognize it.
Exactly. So it was just like having conversations like that at shoots with photographers
(39:13):
is really just very eye-opening that there are these stereotypes that are out there.
Like I don't work with models of color because they're
all divas I have no idea where
that came from but it's also something that I have gotten in
response from photographers that you know I would love to work with you but
every other model of color I've worked with in the past has been very diva and
(39:36):
very demanding and I'm why I always say hey there's references for anybody that
I've worked with in my portfolio, you can reach out to them to ask.
So it's, there is a very different set of things, like as a model of color that
I sort of have to go into when I'm like reaching out to people,
(39:57):
knowing that these are some of the thoughts and stereotypes that are sort of
floating around in their head about me for working with me.
So it's, it is, it's very, it's, It's very interesting and challenging.
And, you know, sometimes you just have to let things roll off in order to to
(40:20):
be able to stay in the industry and still work and create because it it sometimes is very overwhelming.
Man, listening to you describe that, I am just trying to imagine how frustrating
that must be, especially when people are giving you like backhanded ways of
telling you that they don't have a project for you,
(40:42):
but it's kind of like you've heard it before and you know what they kind of means, you know.
Exactly. Totally. Like if you're going to call them out for that,
then it's going to create tension.
Right. Do you just leave that one and not contact that person again?
Or so I I usually just
say you know thanks for considering me
(41:05):
and keeping me in the loop and you know hopefully we'll work together you know
when they have a project in the future that they think best fits you know what
I can represent and then I just again I think it really goes back to the thing
of like me not there's some doors that are worth breaking down and then there are others that are not,
but also even when I am working with people that I'm like, you're a turd.
(41:33):
Professionalism, a hundred percent, because I do not have a problem with saying
to someone, this is completely out of line.
But even with me doing that to remain professional at all costs,
because they can go AWOL if they would like, and that's perfectly fine.
But I always try to make sure that even, even if I'm going to tell you off,
(41:55):
I'm going to tell you off in a professional manner.
And then you're free to do whatever you want with that.
But I said what I said in a way that I feel is still, you know.
Representational of telling it the way that it should be. Yeah.
Well, that's very professional of you. I might have a challenge if I were in
(42:18):
your shoes remaining professional,
but it sounds like you're very resilient and you have a way about you where
you can speak for yourself in those moments,
like in your story earlier, when you said that that photographer tried to go
down on you and you ended the shoot right there and you demanded that he take you home.
Like, if I was in that position, I mean, I have been in a similar situation,
(42:42):
and I did not handle it as eloquently as you did.
So I think that, you know, you deserve a lot of credit for that.
But I think it's hard to, like, being in those situations,
like, even if you've done research for people, and then you get blindsided with something,
(43:03):
it's hard to be in that moment and think about what should I be doing to get
myself out of this situation in a safe way?
You know, it's, it is like that situation actually ended up just working out the way that it did.
But I know that that's not always the way that it happens. And sometimes there
(43:24):
is violence that ends up happening.
So it, it is, it's difficult to say, like in a situation when something is happening, what would I do?
Like we try to prepare ourselves and have the resources and everything.
But when something comes out of left field, it is sometimes where you're in
(43:47):
the moment and you're handling it the best way that you know how to in that moment.
And then looking back, you say, oh, well, you know, I could have done something differently.
But your mind is in that protective mode at that moment.
And that's really, that's really what it needs to be in, in order for you to
get out of that situation, you know, and I just, there have definitely been
(44:09):
other situations that have not gone as smoothly.
So, you know, I think that we, we take it in stride, I think.
I'm glad that you've survived these situations and made it through to today.
But yeah, I mean, I've had similar situations where, like, usually my reaction when somebody,
(44:30):
you know, tries to sexually assault me at a shoot, which fortunately hasn't
happened in a long time, but it has happened is I go into kind of fawning mode
where, you know, I say, Oh, you know, please stop doing that.
Or I'll just shy away. But then I'm, I still want to finish the shoot because I want to get paid.
Yeah. I'll just be really nice, but I'll be like, oh, sorry, I'm uncomfortable.
(44:53):
But I know that sometimes models will freeze and they won't even be able to
say that they're uncomfortable or anything. Yeah.
It is a difficult situation to be put in because you're nude and you do want to get paid.
And so it's like, what do I do? Do I just say I'm done and hope that they don't hold your payment?
(45:17):
Or do I just walk out of the chute knowing, hey, well, I needed that money,
but I'm not going to take it because I'm deciding that this is done.
And I think it is one of the things with me forcing people now to read my boundaries
and expectations of working with me prior to anything else.
(45:39):
And I think it's because I learned about being in situations like that.
We're having to say after the fact that, okay, well, I'm ending the shoot because
you've made me uncomfortable and I feel unsafe, but I still expect to get paid
because you're the one that made a bad decision to do something.
It wasn't my fault. It was your fault.
So now it really is. I sort of just force people, hey, no shoot's taking place
(46:03):
until you've read through my boundaries to know if these things are happening
at the shoot, the shoot's ending, I'm still getting paid and I'm walking out.
Because if not, you do end up in situations exactly as you're talking about
where it's like, well, I'm here and how do I maneuver getting out of this without
them saying, well, you ended the shoot, so I'm now not going to pay you.
(46:25):
I'm your ride and you're trapped here and I'm not going to take you home.
It's a lot of pressure for the models to be in. It really is.
Yeah. And something that makes me feel comfortable in these situations is when
the photographer pays you at the beginning of the shoot.
That way, you know that if something happens, you
(46:46):
could just end it and exactly then you're
a part of the work and the photographer if they were out
of line then that's like you said that's on them yeah exactly
yeah and I think they're the instances where it has been where I felt like I'm
not sure how this is going to be but that's exactly what I have done is just
gotten my paper up front so that it's like okay well we're done here so it's
(47:13):
it I think I think part of this is too,
is the learning as we go along with what we need to do in order to stay safe and thrive in this.
Yeah. And then building your community and your network of photographers that you enjoy working with.
As I look at your photos on Instagram and on your portfolio,
(47:34):
I see like such variety of like different genres,
but a lot of the photos that even if they're of different genres,
they have some kind of a cohesive vibe.
And the only way that I can describe it is like Like sort of,
sort of you have an ethereal vibe to a lot of your films.
And so is that intentional?
(47:56):
It is. I do. I love surreal stuff, but I also love ethereal stuff.
And I think one of the things when I started, that was like something I sort
of gravitated to because I love vintage things, but I also love modern things.
And I also love bringing those two things together.
And shooting the ethereal work is a lot of work that when I started,
(48:20):
it was difficult for me to,
get people to allow me to do that work because it was like, oh,
well, I don't really think you have that sort of a vibe for doing that.
I'm like, no, no, no, this is what I want to do.
So I do, I enjoy doing that, but I also love just experimenting and doing,
like you said, at a wide variety of things I love
(48:42):
doing surreal work it's my really
sort of goal is if it is something that is creative like
I enjoy exploring that so never to be in a box yeah with my work is always like
reaching outside of that to see what I can and can't do yeah and that definitely
(49:03):
appeals Appeals to a wider variety of photographers, too.
Yeah. Yeah. And I've definitely, in my past, been put in a box.
Like, there was a period of time where only glamour photographers were hiring me.
And because those were the only photos that I had out there,
those were the only photographers that wanted to hire me.
So the idea that somebody says, oh, I don't want you to do the ethereal vibe
(49:27):
because I don't think that's you, resonate with how that feels when somebody
says that because it's very like aggravating.
Yes, it is. It is very aggravating because you're like, just give me a chance.
I know I can do this thing.
Yeah, it's in doing your own photography as well.
(49:50):
Like are some of the photos that you post also self-portraits?
So I have a different Instagram, but on my website, I do have,
there's like a few that I do have on my website that it's like my photography
and I actually need to put up more of it. I just, I've had it in different places.
(50:10):
And so I've kind of the last few years been trying to sort of condense it down into fewer places.
So there is a little bit of my self-portrait work on my website.
That's cool. Yeah, I've done some self portraits also.
And I find that if another photographer doesn't want to shoot some kind of a
(50:32):
vibe with me, at least you could shoot that of yourself. Yes.
Display it, which will attract other photographers to hopefully want to shoot
that vibe with you too. Yeah, I've definitely done a lot of that.
And I actually lost like nine years of photography work backing up a drive.
(50:52):
Do not do this, people. Do not decide that at 3 a.m.
You're going to back up a drive that you have, which is what I did.
And it was encrypted but it was encrypted outside of
my laptop so it was independently encrypted and I
decided I was gonna just this one last thing before
going to bed and lost nine years worth of photography
(51:13):
work because of it so just wait
till the next day and do it it's not
worth it that sucks wow
there's definitely some tears shed for that drive
so earlier in the podcast you You mentioned that for a while you had three jobs
and you were doing photography in between that and some modeling in between
(51:37):
and that your career has evolved and you've worked with artists who paint you
and sculpt you and you've done some model mentoring.
Today, what is your scope of work like?
Is it mostly freelance modeling for photo shoots? Are you still doing the figure
modeling or do you have any of those other jobs that you mentioned at the same time now too?
(52:00):
I am currently a full-time model and I have been the past, I guess,
almost 10 years, I guess, I've been full-time modeling.
So I still model for classes, for painting and drawing, doing workshops for that.
And then I'm a traveling model.
That's amazing. And how long are your trips usually?
(52:22):
Well, it depends. Last year, I had a really long one because I like doing cross-country
stuff because I'm originally from California.
So I always go back to the West Coast every year.
So I usually do like a cross-country while drive back to the West Coast and,
you know, work going over and then work coming back.
(52:42):
So I love traveling and the fact that I can actually meld art creating and traveling
together in the same profession is like amazing to me.
So I utilize it to the full extent.
Yeah, that's cool. So where are you now and then where are you going to be touring
(53:04):
through in the next month or two?
So I'm currently on the East Coast and probably for the next few months,
that's where I will be touring is primarily on the East Coast.
And I think a lot of that too is because usually in the fall term,
I do a lot of painting and drawing classes and workshops and things like that.
(53:25):
So I try to stay pretty central to a location that's sort of like a home base
for doing those and then travel a lot more like winter and summer.
Yeah any particular trips that you want to advertise photographers you might
be listening to the podcast you might want to hire you i will be in the massachusetts
(53:48):
area next weekend oh cool if anybody's in the area that hasn't booked with me
already i will be there for,
until tuesday cool i've only been to massachusetts once but i thought it was
beautiful yeah it is It is. It is.
And Maine too. If anybody hasn't been to Maine, I love Maine.
(54:10):
Really? We're just over there.
Yeah. Are there decent- Gotta go to Acadia.
Acadia? Acadia. Yeah. It's that park that's up there, but it's amazing.
There's so many places to hike and there's a lot of trails that look like it's
literally a page from like Lord of the Rings or something where you just walk
(54:32):
down and it's just like, it looks just untouched.
So it's very cool. That's cool.
Are there a decent amount of photographers that you work with up there?
I've worked with a couple of people, but when I've been there,
I've also done a lot of self-portrait work when I've been there,
which was some of the work from there was actually some of the work that I lost
(54:54):
in the drive I was attempting to back up.
But yeah, I've done a lot of self portrait work when I've been there,
just because it's such a scenic area there.
So it sounds beautiful. Yeah. So you when you're traveling in your car,
do you like sometimes sleep in your car?
Do you get like hotels or crash with people?
(55:16):
Oh, yeah, I'm I'm a roadie for sure. I definitely sleep in my car.
And being four foot 11 really lends itself to sleeping in one.
Because I can actually my driver's seat is heated.
And it was one of the really one of the things when I got my car that I was like,
it has to have heated seats because all my cars have had heated seats
but it almost fully reclines and it's
(55:38):
heated but also the second row
seat is also heated seats and i can pretty much lay full out on that second
row seat so if i don't have too much stuff i'm traveling with but yeah i i definitely
do a lot of a lot of car car sleeping cool there definitely are some benefits
to being yeah yeah there are yeah Yeah.
(56:01):
And there's lots of shower options like it, like the truck stop thing.
So I do not stop at rest stops.
That was like something I learned from like just traveling long before I started modeling.
Like usually I only stop at rest stops like during the daylight hours,
but I don't stop at them at night hours.
(56:22):
And then I saw the movie Rest Stop and that really just confirmed all my horrors
about stopping at rest stops. So I usually will stop at Trek stops.
Are rest stops generally dangerous? Well, you know, I think for me,
I really never cared for the fact that they were always set back away from the
freeway where I'm like, anything can happen back there.
(56:44):
And then I saw the movie Rest Stop, which is a horror movie for those people that don't know.
And it really just I was like, oh, my God, see, this is why you don't stop at rest stops.
But usually at like truck stops, there's cameras and everything else.
So it's like, you know, at least if you're there, someone's going to know that you were there. Yeah.
(57:06):
Yeah. I mean, I've stayed at a couple rest stops, but I think that when I was
doing that, I was with my boyfriend in a van. So not by myself.
I haven't seen that movie, but it's on my list now.
So speaking of horror movies, I think I saw a photo on your page that looked
like Samara from The Ring homes.
Oh, my God. I had so much fun doing that. Yes, it is. Yes, I did.
(57:30):
So during the during the pandemic, I did a lot of online sessions,
both for photography and then like painting, drawing things.
And so I did this drawing session where it was like it was Halloween themed.
So I had this whole setup where and they were painting and drawing where I was
(57:51):
like the scene where she comes out of the television. Yeah.
So I did a whole remake of like that whole thing.
So every time I think it was like five, five minute poses, I would get closer
and closer to the camera.
So that was, and then we, and then I did a photo shoot with it because I was,
I had already done all the paint and everything.
(58:12):
So yeah, it was, it was fun.
I enjoyed doing that. I love when I see like horror themes in people's portfolios,
because it tells me that you don't take yourself too seriously and you're willing to do like fun,
weird concept, which I think that, you know, resonates with a lot of photographers out there.
Yeah, it does. Yeah.
(58:35):
And I laugh at myself a lot. So, you know, it's good. It all works out.
Well, Gazelle, I'm really happy that we had the chance to do this.
I feel like I've gotten to know you a bit over the course of this podcast.
So thank you for taking the time.
Well, thank you so much for having me and for asking me.
And I appreciate your patience with like, you know, for things to align for us to make this happen.
(59:01):
Oh, yeah, for sure. Like, you know, these podcast episodes are just for fun
and to like, you know, connect with the community. So it's always no pressure.
Yeah. Well, I'm thrilled to be a part of the community.
Absolutely. All right. Well, I'll touch base with you soon about getting an
image for the thumbnail.
And other than that, thanks again for being on the show. And I'll talk to you soon.
(59:23):
All right. You're welcome. Thanks. Have a great day. Bye, Giselle.
Music.
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