November 20, 2024 • 33 mins
Welcome to the Super Entrepreneurs Podcast. I'm your host, Shahid Durrani. Today, we're diving deep into the world of product management with a true industry veteran, Heather Inocencio. Heather has spent over three decades shaping the tech landscape, guiding companies to build innovative and impactful products.
In this episode, we explore the evolution of product management, the role of AI in shaping the future of tech, and the importance of human intuition in a world dominated by machines. We'll also discuss the power of mindfulness and presence in both personal and professional life.
So, join us as we unpack the secrets of successful product leadership and the human element that drives innovation.
Chapter Stamps:
00:49 Heather Inocencio's Career and Insights
01:20 Evolution of Product Management
04:48 Incorporating AI in Product Development
09:24 Empowering Women in Tech
12:53 Mindset and Personal Growth
Pullout Quotes:
“We're really the thought leaders now that are helping Strategically, based on your budget, how you want to position yourself, what your objectives are, this is what your roadmap should look like. This is what we, what you should build."
"We've moved into a much more strategic role. That's been really exciting. And so product management now, over those decades has evolved to be a very Thank you. Uh, forward leading, thought leading, um, role on a team, very strategic."
"The next couple of years are going to be some of the most exciting, uh, that we've seen in a long time in product development."
"We're going to start seeing development. We already are seeing development of new features, new services, new tech platforms happen a lot faster."
Social:
Website: https://www.theproductconsult.com/
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heatherinocencio/
Disclaimer: Please be aware that the opinions and perspectives conveyed in this podcast are solely those of our guests and do not necessarily represent the views, ideologies, or principles of Super Entrepreneurs Podcast, its associated entities, or any organizations they represent or are affiliated with. We provide a platform for discussion and exploration, and the content of each episode is understood to be independent expressions from our guests, rather than a reflection of the beliefs held by the podcast or its hosts.
Notice to the Super Entrepreneurs community:
Before we part, remember to join our Private Facebook group, 'Mindset for Business Success' Here we share mindset wisdom to elevate your life and business LIVE every Tuesday morning(EST), ready for a transformativ
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
AI has been great because we canperform customer interviews and do
(00:05):
customer discovery work and thenleverage AI to assimilate that and
break it down for us to find the themes.
Find the emotion behind it andit's just a faster way to digest
a lot of information from users.
I'm going to play a little bit of it andthen I'm going to play the rest of the
(00:25):
song, so I'll see you in a little bit.
Hello and welcome to SuperEntrepreneurs Podcast.
I'm your host, Shahid Durrani.
Today, we're excited tohave Heather Inocencio.
(00:46):
Hopefully I pronouncedthe last name correctly.
Heather has spent over 30years helping businesses create
amazing products and grow big.
She's worked with some wellknown companies and help
them succeed in a big way.
Heather is all about blendingtechnology with what people
need to make things happen.
(01:07):
She also loves to support and guideothers, especially women in tech.
So welcome to our show, Heather.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
No, it's my pleasure.
So I want to talk about, theevolution of product management.
For example, you have a30 year career behind you.
(01:29):
How have you seen the roleof product management evolve?
In the last 30 years and what trendsdo you see happening in the future?
That's a great question.
When I started management back in theit was back in the nineties, product
management was really the newest role.
Having a seat at the table withregards to technology development.
(01:53):
At the time we were really focusedon making sure that what was being
developed by the engineers servedwhat the end users really needed.
And so back then, our development cyclescould be as long as 18 months and so
18 months later, after a user grouphas asked for some kind of technology
solution, they're getting it, it mayor may not actually be what they need.
(02:15):
Things may change during that time,or the developers may have not.
Properly understood what itwas the users were asking for.
And so there's a lot of expenseand a lot of time wasted there.
And so the role of the product managerearly on was to make sure that when
there was a need to build a new system,the engineers really understood what
(02:36):
the users needs were, how they needed tointeract with it, why we were building it.
And ultimately, what got deliveredserved serve those users well,
and so it was a lot of really.
Translating between end user speak,they were thinking, speaking and
thinking in terms of business languageand strategy and then engineers, their
language was really, how are we goingto build this from the inside out from
(02:59):
the bottom up as product managementhas evolved over the decades, we've
moved into a much more strategic role.
That's been really exciting.
And so product managementnow, over those decades has
evolved to be a very Thank you.
Forward leading, thought leadingrole on a team, very strategic.
So instead of just letting userstell us what they need and then
(03:20):
working with engineers to build it,we work with companies to understand
a lot of different data points andinputs to figure out what it is.
We need to build.
Now we look at data.
Now we look at overallstrategy and competitive space.
And so we are really the thought leadersnow that are helping Strategically, based
(03:41):
on your budget, how you want to positionyourself, what your objectives are, this
is what your roadmap should look like.
This is what we, what you should build.
And then, of course, we do stay in theweeds and make sure that ultimately what
is getting built and delivered is goingto absolutely delight those end users.
That's a unique way to look at itas well as a thought leadership.
(04:02):
And I'd say a personal touchtoo, you feel like you're working
with someone knowledgeable andsomeone that could actually hold
your hand in the right direction,
with that type of terminology.
Yeah, we see that a lot withbusinesses that we work with.
I've seen it all in my there's never ashortage of ideas of what could be built.
(04:24):
Engineering and overall techteams are pretty expensive.
And so making sure that we're building theright things that we're spending our time.
Building things that are ultimately goingto add value for the users, going to
impact the company's top and bottom line.
How do you figure out what you work on?
How do you prioritize thatis a big part of what we do.
(04:44):
And how it adds value to the users.
Are you incorporatingartificial intelligence to help?
We do.
That's been exciting.
It's the first time I feel likewe've got a really new, fun
and exciting tool to use since.
The internet
is
available to us.
We're developing tech products.
So that was a game changer.
(05:06):
And now with AI, it'sanother game changer.
And we do look at ways that we canleverage AI to do things that we
simply weren't able to do before.
And we're starting to see thatpeppered throughout our products
and throughout our technology.
We're still really at the beginning ofthe wave of product people, understanding
how to incorporate AI and where to do it.
Obviously some organizationsare moving faster than others.
(05:29):
But it's really reinvigorated what we do.
I spent the first 10 years of my careerworking on the emerging technologies
team of a telecommunications company.
And back in the nineties, that wasa cool space to be his telecom and
communications, the transferringof data was really how we got
information from point A to point Band then our technology platforms.
(05:52):
Gave us the ability to move thatdata, have it show up for users
in ways they could interactwith it and use their systems.
So the transferring of data, the speedgoing up at which we could transfer
data, how much data we could transfer,enable things like television and on
demand radio, things we didn't haveback in the early nineties, and Now
with AI, we get another opportunity tolook at how this advent in technology
(06:17):
is just now making things possiblethat really weren't possible before.
So I think the next couple ofyears are going to be some of the
most exciting that we've seen in along time in product development.
So for new idea formations, canyou share some steps that you use?
I assume you use, artificialintelligence as well.
(06:38):
But anything else that could helpsomeone watching or listening?
Sure.
So for new ideas, let's saywe're working with a company.
They've got a general idea of where theywant to go strategically, what they think
they need to build in order to compete onein order to carve out a real ownership in
a part of the marketplace and really sawsome needs that aren't being solved well
(07:00):
by other companies and other tech systems.
So we'll work with them to figureout what it is they should work on.
And the things that we lookto inform us really have to
do with, we talk to the users.
That's always where we start.
So they have customersare using their systems.
Where is it working?
Where are they delighted?
What are they missing?
Where we could be?
Where could we do more development?
(07:21):
Where can we provide more features,more services for the user?
And so we always start by doing userinterviews, doing customer discovery
work to understand what their mindset is.
We look at data.
That's another.
It's another reallyimportant input for us.
And what people say is oftenvery different than what they do.
(07:42):
And so we'll look at data thatunderstand how things are being used.
How people are coming backand reengaging with things.
What are those things, thosefeatures that people are using?
Create, how are they creatingvalue for the company?
Are we generating therevenue that we need to?
AI has been great because we canperform customer interviews and do
(08:03):
customer discovery work, and thenleverage AI to assimilate that and
break it down for us to find the themes.
Find the emotion behind it.
And it's just a faster way to digesta lot of information from users.
True.
To help us boil down quickly.
What is, what are the big things herethat we have an opportunity to make real
(08:24):
impact with if we work in those areas?
It can definitely help withspeed to market, using artificial
intelligence, especially.
Yeah.
I'm not an engineerand I don't write code.
I have a lot of respectfor the people that do.
And I've been hearing a lot aboutdevelopers leveraging AI to write the code
that they need to build these systems.
faster and better.
(08:46):
And so that's really exciting.
I think that A.
I.
Is a tool right now.
That we're all figuring outhow do we use it in our niche?
How do we use it in our system?
And so it can help us from a strategicperspective, like I said, to really
be able to digest large amountsof data and then easily surface.
What are the big things we needto be cleaning from this data?
(09:07):
And then for me, it can potentiallybe a big tool to help them do what
they need to do faster and better.
So we're going to startseeing development.
We already are seeing developmentof new features, new services, new
tech platforms happen a lot faster.
You transitioned into focusingon empowering women and product
(09:30):
leaders as a thought leader.
Can you share some effective tipsor strategies that could, support
or help others that are lookingto do the same, or they're already
currently in that type of positionwhere your information could help them.
Sure.
Yeah.
For women, for men doing what we do,this strategic product management
(09:53):
work, making sure that we're buildingthe right things at the right time
for the users, what a company needs.
That's 1 of our taglinesand product management.
We make sure we're working on theright things at the right time.
There's a lot that feeds thatdoesn't matter if you're a man or a
woman, the way that you inform thosedecisions, the way you go about your
daily job is going to be the same.
(10:14):
And it's looking at user feedback,looking at data, talking to your
engineers about what technology isjust now making possible, understanding
what the business objectives are,understanding the budget, understanding
how we're positioned in the marketplace.
And when we pull a lot of thosedata points together to decide
what we think we should work on.
For women, specifically, women justhaven't had the same seat at the
(10:37):
table as men have for a long time.
And so when I speak with womenabout this, it's not specific to the
skills that it takes to do the job.
It's more about making sure thatwe show up with that same inner
confidence that we see that men display.
So it can be.
Uncomfortable for a woman when she'sthe only woman having a conversation
with a lot of guys that are theengineers that are the data people.
(11:01):
And so I just encourage women to to notlet that imposter syndrome, that question
of, do I really have a right to be here?
Have I earned the right to be
here?
Am I as smart enough assmart as these folks are?
Am I as competent as these folks are?
Do I have as much background so that I'mmaking informed decisions as these folks
around me have to really move past that.
(11:23):
And a lot of the conversations Ihave with women is about making
sure that core belief is onethat yes, you deserve to be here.
You've got great experience.
You are adding a ton of valueand to remember that going.
And I think there's a lot of.
Speak that holds women fromreally up and really contributing.
And so just getting a bigger voice,getting comfortable with leveraging all
(11:45):
that you've learned in your career toreally show up and contribute all that
you've got, and you're going to makesome mistakes, that's okay, but you
gotta keep pushing and feel confident.
Yeah, and the same goes for men as well.
Maybe there's these traits thatkind of hold us back as well.
And you see them across majority ofpeople, we just have these things that
(12:07):
kind of linger on from our childhood thatcreate these belief systems that, put us
in or they make us feel like we're in anawkward position, but really we aren't.
So there's a big component of thefoundational work, the mindset work,
yeah, for sure.
What we believe in, what we tell ourselvesis so important to be in touch with.
(12:27):
A good friend of mine once said,it's like, there's a little
voice in the back of your headand it's always talking at you.
And.
It's really good.
If you can hear what it's saying.
I love that.
It sounded to me.
I picked her in a rocking chair with apiece of grass hanging out of her mouth,
talking and pondering, but I love that.
And there is, there's an innerdialogue and it's important that we
understand what we're telling ourselvesthat we can break through these
(12:50):
these beliefs that can hold us back.
Yeah, and that's wonderful what shesaid, and to me, in my world, it means
becoming aware of that voice, becomingaware of that commentary that we have,
and which creates a sort of a gap, we'renot infused in it, we look away from and
(13:11):
see what it's saying, what it's doingto help us evolve more in a bigger way.
Definitely.
That self awareness, that, that ability tounderstand and it does take, it takes, for
me, it took being taught how to do that.
It took being taught how to listen, howto be aware of the tape that's playing in
(13:33):
your head and then to identify judgment.
And then you have the opportunity toask yourself, is this the tape that
I want running in the background ofmy life or do I want to change it?
It's probably the best thing I did inmy life is that part, it takes time,
there's a lot of commitment involvedand consistency involved, moment to
(13:55):
moment, it becomes a new lifestyle.
But man, is it so worth it becauseeverything else becomes a breeze then.
And were you also did someone, didyou learn this from someone else
or was this something that youfigured out that you should do?
It's,
It was through an experience,when COVID hit I basically had a
breakdown, and then, because alot of the businesses broke down
(14:17):
at that point, and I just froze.
I just went blank.
And in that stillness, likenothing was happening, I went to the
computer and I searched up mindset.
And I knew about mindset.
I even talked about it.
I would share posts about positivemindset and positive mental attitude,
but it was something that drove meto search mindset that's my answer.
(14:41):
I need to fix what'sgoing on inside of me.
And from that was back in 2020 and Ihaven't stopped since then from that
day on a daily basis, I invest a lot oftime into mindset work and it evolved,
it evolved into working on presenceand involved in mindfulness the inner
(15:04):
child work and all that beautifulstuff that happens internally.
That's where my focus has been.
And I felt like everything else that Idid in my life was really in my point of
view, pointless because I wasn't gettingcloser to what's the purpose of all this?
(15:25):
When you go within, it brings you closer.
To what it means to be alive.
And that is so special in this way.
That's the good stuff right there.
I think 2020 was atransformative year for a lot of
people.
We get so stuck on the hamster wheel.
We get so stuck focusing onwhat externally, what we're
(15:49):
taught success looks like.
And what we should strive for.
I did.
I have had my foot on the gaspedal of my career my entire life.
Go back.
I'll look back when I retire,but time to waste right now.
Contemplating too much.
I just need to keep pushing forward.
And that was and I'm so glad that Ilearned it when I did 2020 for me as well.
(16:12):
And it
beautiful.
It takes all of that.
It takes that moment of silence.
It takes that moment where, fora lot of us, that rush to the
next thing and the next thing wasstripped away during the pandemic.
Yeah.
We could rush to the next thing.
We had time to sit with ourselves,hear the quiet, get really present what
going on.
Yeah.
Amazing.
Still if it's uncomfortable.
(16:33):
And that opened up an opportunity, a lotof people took that opportunity to say,
all right I'm feeling things, I'm hearing.
Things in my head.
I'm aware of things that I haven'tbeen aware of for maybe decades.
I can do something if I want to.
And thank you.
Great teachers and all of the greatsupport when we want to get mindful.
(16:55):
There's lots of informationabout how to do that.
I'm assuming you meditate some.
Yeah, sorry.
Yes,
I do.
I meditate every day.
Consistently, I've been doingit for a very long time.
I believe it's been close to twoyears now that I've been consistently
meditating everything that you canthink of when it comes to the mind.
(17:17):
I work on consistently thekey is the presence of it all.
It's being in the moment from shiftingfrom, means to an end for each moment.
Like you mentioned it shifts fromjust really falling in love with
the moment that you have in frontof you and whatever it entails.
If it entails an action, you're just sofused with that action that you become.
(17:41):
One with it, you become one with thatwithout even worrying or having any type
of energy towards what it will produceis meaningless at that point, you just
become as one with the action that's allthat matters because it's in that moment.
So it's in that moment, whatever it is,it could be, it actually could be just
(18:01):
sitting still doesn't really matter, butthat you fall in love with that moment.
So that actually makes everything easythat you don't even a difficult, you
surrender to because you know what isthere for, it has a purpose, it has a
lesson that needs to be taught here andyou just pay attention to it differently,
(18:22):
You don't freak out.
Like I used to freak out a lot.
I was a ticking time bomb.
But I needed to go through it.
I needed to go through thatto be where I am today.
And a lot of us may be facing that.
And the purpose of this showis also to bring that voice out
to make people realize that.
It's not out here.
All their answers that they're lookingfor is in the mirrors inside and when they
(18:43):
start shift that focus inwards everythingthat they do becomes more powerful.
Yes.
I love everything that you're sayingand it's very much along the theme
of enjoying what you're doing inthe moment, being in the flow of
the actions that you're taking.
Experiencing what you're experiencingin life now, not as a means to it, but
(19:07):
because you are really centered and reallyaware of what you're doing right now.
That's where life happens.
It doesn't happen at the end of the day.
When I get my work done, itdoesn't happen next year.
When I get the promotion, it's happeningright now in every moment and this moment.
And this moment right nowand yeah, I was listening.
I use an app called waking up.
(19:27):
It's been such a fun journey.
I've learned so much listening tothe different speak the gentleman.
I don't recall his name right now.
He wrote the book 4, 000 weeks.
That a lot of us read during thepandemic, and he used to be a productivity
coach, a productivity blogger, how tobasically make the most out of every
second of every minute of every day.
(19:49):
And as he reflected on his life, hehad a child, the pandemic happened.
He came to understand that.
Being very productive.
If productive for us means weare living a successful life.
We will look back on it and behappy with what we've accomplished.
That being truly productivemeans being very present in each
and every moment of your life.
(20:11):
Redefined productivity.
It's not about how many things can Icheck off my list at the end of the day.
It's about how engaged with Iowa was I.
During the day in the moments asthey unfolded in front of me, when
you spend a day like that and youlook back on it, time slows down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, it's beautiful.
And I'm grateful to have met you becauseit's funny that I meet more and more.
(20:38):
And I finally, I find it going in anupwards trajectory when it comes to
meeting individuals like yourself thatwent through this type of transformation.
And it sometimes comes out in aconversation on the episode, but
I noticed it many of the times itcomes up after after we stopped
recording, we chit chat a little bit,
(20:59):
I chit chat with the guestand it comes up there.
And that's beautiful, that means thatthere's an alignment, there's something
happening where we need to meet.
There's a stepping stone thathas to happen when it comes
to this type of evolution.
Because like you said, since COVIDthere is a huge shift regardless of what
(21:22):
religious belief you have or whatever.
Thought patterns you have about yourexistence, for example, we're all
going towards that connectedness,that feeling of there's more to it.
It's not just what we see with oursenses or sense with our senses.
There's a lot more to what's happeningand this love and this type of interaction
(21:47):
is bringing that out more and more.
And there's more and more peoplespeaking about this as well, because
they experimental, it's not something.
That someone has to teach you.
It's so beautiful that youjust find out for yourself.
You just follow simple instructions,keep your commitment, and you will
discover these things yourself.
And that's, what's beautiful about it.
(22:10):
Yeah, it is.
I'm experiencing the same thing.
There are conversations happeningon a very real, very human level.
Even in the workplace that arenot centered around how much
are you going to get done today?
That's, but it's more about thequality of the work you're doing and
where is your, what is your mindset?
(22:30):
Because if we do five thingsin a day instead of 10, but
we do them exceedingly well.
Versus we do 10 things in a day andthey're sloppy and they need to be redone.
They're half thought through.
I'd rather get the 5 things donereally well and you'll have to
revisit those and redo those later.
And so this connection that I'm seeing inthe workplace, we're connecting 1st on.
(22:54):
That more just real more human level isenabling us to do more with work to be
more productive because we're more presentwhen we're doing the things we're doing.
And it's a really importantconversation right now with AI
because AI is going to make possiblea lot that wasn't possible before.
(23:15):
We can really trip ourselves up ifwe're not careful with how we use it
and with drawing conclusions from thedecisioning that it's doing for us.
And so now, more than ever, it'simportant that we are applying our
better senses around ethics and integrityin the work that we do, because if
(23:37):
we leave it to AI, it could steer usdown paths that are unethical on the
products and things that we build.
So I love that there's this.
Heightened awareness right nowthat we're seeing amongst everyone
of wanting to connect from a morecentered, more real, more human place.
That awareness is necessary as we startusing new tech tools that can change,
(23:58):
fundamentally change how we relate toeach other, how we connect in society,
and so having that awareness as we'reusing AI to do development is critical.
We could end up in abad place in a few more
years.
I find, Artificial intelligence cameto us to replace our intellect, because
(24:19):
there's a deeper side of humans thatwe've been ignoring on a wide scale basis.
Because if you look at ourschooling system, it's, we
don't talk about intuition,
we don't talk about that sense of knowingthe deeper side of the human being Which
is crucial for our evolution, which iscrucial for our betterment, for the future
(24:42):
generations, for what we can do for thisearth and what we can create, so I feel
like chatgpt came to us just to replace,so we're not too focused on, on thinking.
To make things better more about thefeminine side, the feeling side, the
intuitive side of the being to bring upsome evolutions like we have in the past,
(25:09):
a lot of things that we discovered beenhere for thousands of years, but we just
realized them or became aware of them inrecent times for example, Wi Fi and other
technologies that have always been there.
It's just us becoming aware of it toput it all together to make it what
it is, same way there's so many ofthese inventions that came through the
(25:30):
intuition of a human being, that ifwe start focusing on that and we start
becoming more inner focus, mindsetfocus, we will start bringing out that
creativity that we may have not seen.
We will see some incredible leapsin a shorter time now that we
(25:51):
start tapping into the intuitivepower of the human being.
So my next question is, how do yousee the human intuition and technology
product development going forth?
I've never been asked thatquestion and I absolutely love it.
I like the premise that you put out, whichis that by leveraging AI, leveraging these
(26:16):
essentially more intelligent tools, we canmove the part of our brain that used to
be needed for that over to these tools.
While keeping an eye on makingsure that we're doing things, of
course,
but that gives us, it just givesus more minutes, more hours in
the day to leverage other parts ofour brain for becoming creative,
(26:36):
mindfulness.
Yeah,
I love it.
And as I reflect, even on my day yesterdayI was able to use AI to do a lot of.
Tedious things faster and what wouldhave taken me hours took me minutes
and that did free up a lot of my timeto do more of that creative thinking.
And so to your question, I seeintuition playing a role in how we do
(26:57):
technology development going forward.
I think there are a couple of ways.
With AI, we're going tostart to see technologies.
Available to people that may ormay not be tech savvy in ways that
it's never been available before.
How are people goingto use that technology?
We see the commercials on TV.
(27:19):
Now, someone holds up their phone andsays, give me recipes for what I can cook.
What's in here.
That's pretty cool.
So how we, as we start to seepeople's behaviors change.
Those of us behind the scenesthat are building these features,
building these technologiesto put out there into society.
We're going to have to observewhat people are doing with them,
(27:39):
and that's where that's 1 place.
I see intuition being important isobserving and watching how patterns change
and user behavior because of the newtech products we're putting out there and
being able to about where is this going?
Are we again?
Ethically?
Are we building the right thingsin the right ways that are
encouraging healthy behavior?
In society, or are we building somethingthat's going to get people staring at
(28:03):
their phone for even more hours a daywith the head down disconnected from
the world around them being able to lookahead like that look around like that
because these technology tools like AI aredoing a lot of that tedious work for us.
Therefore.
Giving our brains the room to createmore is going to be really important.
(28:24):
We don't want to go down any morepaths that we've gone down building
tech products that are actuallyhurting society in various ways
that weren't foreseen definitelyweren't foreseen from the beginning.
And by the time they were.
The dollars were too ingrained in thatfor people to want to do much about it.
And so I think that, that intuition thatmindfulness, the self awareness on the
(28:46):
part of the people that are developingthese new products is going to be critical
because we are behavior, look at somethingas simple as, and I say simple Uber is,
an idea that we all, I'll come back toyou for various examples and use cases.
Uber changed the way we think about,I'm at home and I need to get from
here, let's say, to the airport.
(29:08):
How am I going to get there?
I'm not going to drive myself, right?
So the angst that used to happen whenyou, I'm going to age myself here, I
would pick up my home phone, I'd lookup the number for the taxi company.
I'd call the taxi company.
I'd tell them where I lived, whereI was going, and then I would wait.
I would have no insight.
I have missed
my
(29:29):
taxi
on
time.
And so in that case somethingas simple as a ride app, you can
open the app and change the wholeexperience is like inside all of
someone who's about to take fixing a
problem.
Yeah, if it's the problem thatremoves some anxiety and it removed
time that people spend waiting.
(29:50):
I don't know if you've ever called a taxi.
We would call them back over and over.
Are they close?
How far away are they?
And then they'd have to call
that
is a significant.
Yeah,
That's a huge shift,
that was a very good example, Heather.
And speaking of fixing a problem, an ideajust came to mind when you were speaking
(30:10):
an app where what do we do for an app?
When we use an app, we'relooking to Get more information.
We're looking to socialize, right?
We're looking to get a laugh.
But what if there's an app where youget point systems and the selected
information come to you at a specificgiven times in the day instead of having
(30:34):
access to it all the time, meaning thatnot using your phone will be will be
promoted and gifted Some sort of a systemwhere they can grow income or something.
I'm just thinking out loud where itallows users not to use their phone, but
also add some excitement to their life.
(30:56):
Yeah, gamifying.
Yeah,
gamifying, putting thephone down and not using it.
I just discovered, and many otherpeople may be aware of this, I just
discovered yesterday and have nowactivated this setting on my iPhone.
The notifications that I get, I onlynow have a two or three tools on my
(31:19):
phone that are allowed to notify me when
same here, they're all off.
My notifications are still on forall of these other apps, but I
group them up now and I can choosethe time of day they all come in.
So Once at a certain point in themorning, and I've chosen one more
time in the evening, my notificationscan all come through, but my phone
(31:40):
isn't dinging throughout the day.
Constantly distracting.
Yeah.
Good idea.
So it's not gamified necessarily.
And that's a really neat, yeah.
Yeah.
But at least I was able to turn a lotof that off and I mean there's, yeah,
it's great idea.
Yeah.
There was a time a few yearsago, I wouldn't have turned that
off if I could have, because Iwas so addicted to the dopamine
(32:01):
consumed.
Yes.
Yeah.
Consumed by it, but that's a great idea.
I, what I did a couple of years ago or soI completely shut off my notifications,
I left all WhatsApp groups and I onlygo to the phone when I want to, when I
need something, not the other way around.
(32:22):
So that was a major shift thatI made and I couldn't be any
more grateful for that decision.
Heather, it's a.
It's great to talk to you.
We could talk forever.
We usually like to keep the episodeup to 30 minutes, 20 to 30 minutes.
It was great chatting with you.
It was very energetic.
Your information is quiteintriguing, what you're sharing.
(32:44):
And I can see some wonderfulproducts coming out in the market.
Definitely keep in touch andthank you for coming on the show.
Thank you for having me.
It's been fun.
AI has been great because we canperform customer interviews and do
(00:05):
customer discovery work and thenleverage AI to assimilate that and
break it down for us to find the themes.
Find the emotion behind it andit's just a faster way to digest
a lot of information from users.
I'm going to play a little bit of it andthen I'm going to play the rest of the
(00:25):
song, so I'll see you in a little bit.
Hello and welcome to SuperEntrepreneurs Podcast.
I'm your host, Shahid Durrani.
Today, we're excited tohave Heather Inocencio.
(00:46):
Hopefully I pronouncedthe last name correctly.
Heather has spent over 30years helping businesses create
amazing products and grow big.
She's worked with some wellknown companies and help
them succeed in a big way.
Heather is all about blendingtechnology with what people
need to make things happen.
(01:07):
She also loves to support and guideothers, especially women in tech.
So welcome to our show, Heather.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
No, it's my pleasure.
So I want to talk about, theevolution of product management.
For example, you have a30 year career behind you.
(01:29):
How have you seen the roleof product management evolve?
In the last 30 years and what trendsdo you see happening in the future?
That's a great question.
When I started management back in theit was back in the nineties, product
management was really the newest role.
Having a seat at the table withregards to technology development.
(01:53):
At the time we were really focusedon making sure that what was being
developed by the engineers servedwhat the end users really needed.
And so back then, our development cyclescould be as long as 18 months and so
18 months later, after a user grouphas asked for some kind of technology
solution, they're getting it, it mayor may not actually be what they need.
(02:15):
Things may change during that time,or the developers may have not.
Properly understood what itwas the users were asking for.
And so there's a lot of expenseand a lot of time wasted there.
And so the role of the product managerearly on was to make sure that when
there was a need to build a new system,the engineers really understood what
(02:36):
the users needs were, how they needed tointeract with it, why we were building it.
And ultimately, what got deliveredserved serve those users well,
and so it was a lot of really.
Translating between end user speak,they were thinking, speaking and
thinking in terms of business languageand strategy and then engineers, their
language was really, how are we goingto build this from the inside out from
(02:59):
the bottom up as product managementhas evolved over the decades, we've
moved into a much more strategic role.
That's been really exciting.
And so product managementnow, over those decades has
evolved to be a very Thank you.
Forward leading, thought leadingrole on a team, very strategic.
So instead of just letting userstell us what they need and then
(03:20):
working with engineers to build it,we work with companies to understand
a lot of different data points andinputs to figure out what it is.
We need to build.
Now we look at data.
Now we look at overallstrategy and competitive space.
And so we are really the thought leadersnow that are helping Strategically, based
(03:41):
on your budget, how you want to positionyourself, what your objectives are, this
is what your roadmap should look like.
This is what we, what you should build.
And then, of course, we do stay in theweeds and make sure that ultimately what
is getting built and delivered is goingto absolutely delight those end users.
That's a unique way to look at itas well as a thought leadership.
(04:02):
And I'd say a personal touchtoo, you feel like you're working
with someone knowledgeable andsomeone that could actually hold
your hand in the right direction,
with that type of terminology.
Yeah, we see that a lot withbusinesses that we work with.
I've seen it all in my there's never ashortage of ideas of what could be built.
(04:24):
Engineering and overall techteams are pretty expensive.
And so making sure that we're building theright things that we're spending our time.
Building things that are ultimately goingto add value for the users, going to
impact the company's top and bottom line.
How do you figure out what you work on?
How do you prioritize thatis a big part of what we do.
(04:44):
And how it adds value to the users.
Are you incorporatingartificial intelligence to help?
We do.
That's been exciting.
It's the first time I feel likewe've got a really new, fun
and exciting tool to use since.
The internet
is
available to us.
We're developing tech products.
So that was a game changer.
(05:06):
And now with AI, it'sanother game changer.
And we do look at ways that we canleverage AI to do things that we
simply weren't able to do before.
And we're starting to see thatpeppered throughout our products
and throughout our technology.
We're still really at the beginning ofthe wave of product people, understanding
how to incorporate AI and where to do it.
Obviously some organizationsare moving faster than others.
(05:29):
But it's really reinvigorated what we do.
I spent the first 10 years of my careerworking on the emerging technologies
team of a telecommunications company.
And back in the nineties, that wasa cool space to be his telecom and
communications, the transferringof data was really how we got
information from point A to point Band then our technology platforms.
(05:52):
Gave us the ability to move thatdata, have it show up for users
in ways they could interactwith it and use their systems.
So the transferring of data, the speedgoing up at which we could transfer
data, how much data we could transfer,enable things like television and on
demand radio, things we didn't haveback in the early nineties, and Now
with AI, we get another opportunity tolook at how this advent in technology
(06:17):
is just now making things possiblethat really weren't possible before.
So I think the next couple ofyears are going to be some of the
most exciting that we've seen in along time in product development.
So for new idea formations, canyou share some steps that you use?
I assume you use, artificialintelligence as well.
(06:38):
But anything else that could helpsomeone watching or listening?
Sure.
So for new ideas, let's saywe're working with a company.
They've got a general idea of where theywant to go strategically, what they think
they need to build in order to compete onein order to carve out a real ownership in
a part of the marketplace and really sawsome needs that aren't being solved well
(07:00):
by other companies and other tech systems.
So we'll work with them to figureout what it is they should work on.
And the things that we lookto inform us really have to
do with, we talk to the users.
That's always where we start.
So they have customersare using their systems.
Where is it working?
Where are they delighted?
What are they missing?
Where we could be?
Where could we do more development?
(07:21):
Where can we provide more features,more services for the user?
And so we always start by doing userinterviews, doing customer discovery
work to understand what their mindset is.
We look at data.
That's another.
It's another reallyimportant input for us.
And what people say is oftenvery different than what they do.
(07:42):
And so we'll look at data thatunderstand how things are being used.
How people are coming backand reengaging with things.
What are those things, thosefeatures that people are using?
Create, how are they creatingvalue for the company?
Are we generating therevenue that we need to?
AI has been great because we canperform customer interviews and do
(08:03):
customer discovery work, and thenleverage AI to assimilate that and
break it down for us to find the themes.
Find the emotion behind it.
And it's just a faster way to digesta lot of information from users.
True.
To help us boil down quickly.
What is, what are the big things herethat we have an opportunity to make real
(08:24):
impact with if we work in those areas?
It can definitely help withspeed to market, using artificial
intelligence, especially.
Yeah.
I'm not an engineerand I don't write code.
I have a lot of respectfor the people that do.
And I've been hearing a lot aboutdevelopers leveraging AI to write the code
that they need to build these systems.
faster and better.
(08:46):
And so that's really exciting.
I think that A.
I.
Is a tool right now.
That we're all figuring outhow do we use it in our niche?
How do we use it in our system?
And so it can help us from a strategicperspective, like I said, to really
be able to digest large amountsof data and then easily surface.
What are the big things we needto be cleaning from this data?
(09:07):
And then for me, it can potentiallybe a big tool to help them do what
they need to do faster and better.
So we're going to startseeing development.
We already are seeing developmentof new features, new services, new
tech platforms happen a lot faster.
You transitioned into focusingon empowering women and product
(09:30):
leaders as a thought leader.
Can you share some effective tipsor strategies that could, support
or help others that are lookingto do the same, or they're already
currently in that type of positionwhere your information could help them.
Sure.
Yeah.
For women, for men doing what we do,this strategic product management
(09:53):
work, making sure that we're buildingthe right things at the right time
for the users, what a company needs.
That's 1 of our taglinesand product management.
We make sure we're working on theright things at the right time.
There's a lot that feeds thatdoesn't matter if you're a man or a
woman, the way that you inform thosedecisions, the way you go about your
daily job is going to be the same.
(10:14):
And it's looking at user feedback,looking at data, talking to your
engineers about what technology isjust now making possible, understanding
what the business objectives are,understanding the budget, understanding
how we're positioned in the marketplace.
And when we pull a lot of thosedata points together to decide
what we think we should work on.
For women, specifically, women justhaven't had the same seat at the
(10:37):
table as men have for a long time.
And so when I speak with womenabout this, it's not specific to the
skills that it takes to do the job.
It's more about making sure thatwe show up with that same inner
confidence that we see that men display.
So it can be.
Uncomfortable for a woman when she'sthe only woman having a conversation
with a lot of guys that are theengineers that are the data people.
(11:01):
And so I just encourage women to to notlet that imposter syndrome, that question
of, do I really have a right to be here?
Have I earned the right to be
here?
Am I as smart enough assmart as these folks are?
Am I as competent as these folks are?
Do I have as much background so that I'mmaking informed decisions as these folks
around me have to really move past that.
(11:23):
And a lot of the conversations Ihave with women is about making
sure that core belief is onethat yes, you deserve to be here.
You've got great experience.
You are adding a ton of valueand to remember that going.
And I think there's a lot of.
Speak that holds women fromreally up and really contributing.
And so just getting a bigger voice,getting comfortable with leveraging all
(11:45):
that you've learned in your career toreally show up and contribute all that
you've got, and you're going to makesome mistakes, that's okay, but you
gotta keep pushing and feel confident.
Yeah, and the same goes for men as well.
Maybe there's these traits thatkind of hold us back as well.
And you see them across majority ofpeople, we just have these things that
(12:07):
kind of linger on from our childhood thatcreate these belief systems that, put us
in or they make us feel like we're in anawkward position, but really we aren't.
So there's a big component of thefoundational work, the mindset work,
yeah, for sure.
What we believe in, what we tell ourselvesis so important to be in touch with.
(12:27):
A good friend of mine once said,it's like, there's a little
voice in the back of your headand it's always talking at you.
And.
It's really good.
If you can hear what it's saying.
I love that.
It sounded to me.
I picked her in a rocking chair with apiece of grass hanging out of her mouth,
talking and pondering, but I love that.
And there is, there's an innerdialogue and it's important that we
understand what we're telling ourselvesthat we can break through these
(12:50):
these beliefs that can hold us back.
Yeah, and that's wonderful what shesaid, and to me, in my world, it means
becoming aware of that voice, becomingaware of that commentary that we have,
and which creates a sort of a gap, we'renot infused in it, we look away from and
(13:11):
see what it's saying, what it's doingto help us evolve more in a bigger way.
Definitely.
That self awareness, that, that ability tounderstand and it does take, it takes, for
me, it took being taught how to do that.
It took being taught how to listen, howto be aware of the tape that's playing in
(13:33):
your head and then to identify judgment.
And then you have the opportunity toask yourself, is this the tape that
I want running in the background ofmy life or do I want to change it?
It's probably the best thing I did inmy life is that part, it takes time,
there's a lot of commitment involvedand consistency involved, moment to
(13:55):
moment, it becomes a new lifestyle.
But man, is it so worth it becauseeverything else becomes a breeze then.
And were you also did someone, didyou learn this from someone else
or was this something that youfigured out that you should do?
It's,
It was through an experience,when COVID hit I basically had a
breakdown, and then, because alot of the businesses broke down
(14:17):
at that point, and I just froze.
I just went blank.
And in that stillness, likenothing was happening, I went to the
computer and I searched up mindset.
And I knew about mindset.
I even talked about it.
I would share posts about positivemindset and positive mental attitude,
but it was something that drove meto search mindset that's my answer.
(14:41):
I need to fix what'sgoing on inside of me.
And from that was back in 2020 and Ihaven't stopped since then from that
day on a daily basis, I invest a lot oftime into mindset work and it evolved,
it evolved into working on presenceand involved in mindfulness the inner
(15:04):
child work and all that beautifulstuff that happens internally.
That's where my focus has been.
And I felt like everything else that Idid in my life was really in my point of
view, pointless because I wasn't gettingcloser to what's the purpose of all this?
(15:25):
When you go within, it brings you closer.
To what it means to be alive.
And that is so special in this way.
That's the good stuff right there.
I think 2020 was atransformative year for a lot of
people.
We get so stuck on the hamster wheel.
We get so stuck focusing onwhat externally, what we're
(15:49):
taught success looks like.
And what we should strive for.
I did.
I have had my foot on the gaspedal of my career my entire life.
Go back.
I'll look back when I retire,but time to waste right now.
Contemplating too much.
I just need to keep pushing forward.
And that was and I'm so glad that Ilearned it when I did 2020 for me as well.
(16:12):
And it
beautiful.
It takes all of that.
It takes that moment of silence.
It takes that moment where, fora lot of us, that rush to the
next thing and the next thing wasstripped away during the pandemic.
Yeah.
We could rush to the next thing.
We had time to sit with ourselves,hear the quiet, get really present what
going on.
Yeah.
Amazing.
Still if it's uncomfortable.
(16:33):
And that opened up an opportunity, a lotof people took that opportunity to say,
all right I'm feeling things, I'm hearing.
Things in my head.
I'm aware of things that I haven'tbeen aware of for maybe decades.
I can do something if I want to.
And thank you.
Great teachers and all of the greatsupport when we want to get mindful.
(16:55):
There's lots of informationabout how to do that.
I'm assuming you meditate some.
Yeah, sorry.
Yes,
I do.
I meditate every day.
Consistently, I've been doingit for a very long time.
I believe it's been close to twoyears now that I've been consistently
meditating everything that you canthink of when it comes to the mind.
(17:17):
I work on consistently thekey is the presence of it all.
It's being in the moment from shiftingfrom, means to an end for each moment.
Like you mentioned it shifts fromjust really falling in love with
the moment that you have in frontof you and whatever it entails.
If it entails an action, you're just sofused with that action that you become.
(17:41):
One with it, you become one with thatwithout even worrying or having any type
of energy towards what it will produceis meaningless at that point, you just
become as one with the action that's allthat matters because it's in that moment.
So it's in that moment, whatever it is,it could be, it actually could be just
(18:01):
sitting still doesn't really matter, butthat you fall in love with that moment.
So that actually makes everything easythat you don't even a difficult, you
surrender to because you know what isthere for, it has a purpose, it has a
lesson that needs to be taught here andyou just pay attention to it differently,
(18:22):
You don't freak out.
Like I used to freak out a lot.
I was a ticking time bomb.
But I needed to go through it.
I needed to go through thatto be where I am today.
And a lot of us may be facing that.
And the purpose of this showis also to bring that voice out
to make people realize that.
It's not out here.
All their answers that they're lookingfor is in the mirrors inside and when they
(18:43):
start shift that focus inwards everythingthat they do becomes more powerful.
Yes.
I love everything that you're sayingand it's very much along the theme
of enjoying what you're doing inthe moment, being in the flow of
the actions that you're taking.
Experiencing what you're experiencingin life now, not as a means to it, but
(19:07):
because you are really centered and reallyaware of what you're doing right now.
That's where life happens.
It doesn't happen at the end of the day.
When I get my work done, itdoesn't happen next year.
When I get the promotion, it's happeningright now in every moment and this moment.
And this moment right nowand yeah, I was listening.
I use an app called waking up.
(19:27):
It's been such a fun journey.
I've learned so much listening tothe different speak the gentleman.
I don't recall his name right now.
He wrote the book 4, 000 weeks.
That a lot of us read during thepandemic, and he used to be a productivity
coach, a productivity blogger, how tobasically make the most out of every
second of every minute of every day.
(19:49):
And as he reflected on his life, hehad a child, the pandemic happened.
He came to understand that.
Being very productive.
If productive for us means weare living a successful life.
We will look back on it and behappy with what we've accomplished.
That being truly productivemeans being very present in each
and every moment of your life.
(20:11):
Redefined productivity.
It's not about how many things can Icheck off my list at the end of the day.
It's about how engaged with Iowa was I.
During the day in the moments asthey unfolded in front of me, when
you spend a day like that and youlook back on it, time slows down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, it's beautiful.
And I'm grateful to have met you becauseit's funny that I meet more and more.
(20:38):
And I finally, I find it going in anupwards trajectory when it comes to
meeting individuals like yourself thatwent through this type of transformation.
And it sometimes comes out in aconversation on the episode, but
I noticed it many of the times itcomes up after after we stopped
recording, we chit chat a little bit,
(20:59):
I chit chat with the guestand it comes up there.
And that's beautiful, that means thatthere's an alignment, there's something
happening where we need to meet.
There's a stepping stone thathas to happen when it comes
to this type of evolution.
Because like you said, since COVIDthere is a huge shift regardless of what
(21:22):
religious belief you have or whatever.
Thought patterns you have about yourexistence, for example, we're all
going towards that connectedness,that feeling of there's more to it.
It's not just what we see with oursenses or sense with our senses.
There's a lot more to what's happeningand this love and this type of interaction
(21:47):
is bringing that out more and more.
And there's more and more peoplespeaking about this as well, because
they experimental, it's not something.
That someone has to teach you.
It's so beautiful that youjust find out for yourself.
You just follow simple instructions,keep your commitment, and you will
discover these things yourself.
And that's, what's beautiful about it.
(22:10):
Yeah, it is.
I'm experiencing the same thing.
There are conversations happeningon a very real, very human level.
Even in the workplace that arenot centered around how much
are you going to get done today?
That's, but it's more about thequality of the work you're doing and
where is your, what is your mindset?
(22:30):
Because if we do five thingsin a day instead of 10, but
we do them exceedingly well.
Versus we do 10 things in a day andthey're sloppy and they need to be redone.
They're half thought through.
I'd rather get the 5 things donereally well and you'll have to
revisit those and redo those later.
And so this connection that I'm seeing inthe workplace, we're connecting 1st on.
(22:54):
That more just real more human level isenabling us to do more with work to be
more productive because we're more presentwhen we're doing the things we're doing.
And it's a really importantconversation right now with AI
because AI is going to make possiblea lot that wasn't possible before.
(23:15):
We can really trip ourselves up ifwe're not careful with how we use it
and with drawing conclusions from thedecisioning that it's doing for us.
And so now, more than ever, it'simportant that we are applying our
better senses around ethics and integrityin the work that we do, because if
(23:37):
we leave it to AI, it could steer usdown paths that are unethical on the
products and things that we build.
So I love that there's this.
Heightened awareness right nowthat we're seeing amongst everyone
of wanting to connect from a morecentered, more real, more human place.
That awareness is necessary as we startusing new tech tools that can change,
(23:58):
fundamentally change how we relate toeach other, how we connect in society,
and so having that awareness as we'reusing AI to do development is critical.
We could end up in abad place in a few more
years.
I find, Artificial intelligence cameto us to replace our intellect, because
(24:19):
there's a deeper side of humans thatwe've been ignoring on a wide scale basis.
Because if you look at ourschooling system, it's, we
don't talk about intuition,
we don't talk about that sense of knowingthe deeper side of the human being Which
is crucial for our evolution, which iscrucial for our betterment, for the future
(24:42):
generations, for what we can do for thisearth and what we can create, so I feel
like chatgpt came to us just to replace,so we're not too focused on, on thinking.
To make things better more about thefeminine side, the feeling side, the
intuitive side of the being to bring upsome evolutions like we have in the past,
(25:09):
a lot of things that we discovered beenhere for thousands of years, but we just
realized them or became aware of them inrecent times for example, Wi Fi and other
technologies that have always been there.
It's just us becoming aware of it toput it all together to make it what
it is, same way there's so many ofthese inventions that came through the
(25:30):
intuition of a human being, that ifwe start focusing on that and we start
becoming more inner focus, mindsetfocus, we will start bringing out that
creativity that we may have not seen.
We will see some incredible leapsin a shorter time now that we
(25:51):
start tapping into the intuitivepower of the human being.
So my next question is, how do yousee the human intuition and technology
product development going forth?
I've never been asked thatquestion and I absolutely love it.
I like the premise that you put out, whichis that by leveraging AI, leveraging these
(26:16):
essentially more intelligent tools, we canmove the part of our brain that used to
be needed for that over to these tools.
While keeping an eye on makingsure that we're doing things, of
course,
but that gives us, it just givesus more minutes, more hours in
the day to leverage other parts ofour brain for becoming creative,
(26:36):
mindfulness.
Yeah,
I love it.
And as I reflect, even on my day yesterdayI was able to use AI to do a lot of.
Tedious things faster and what wouldhave taken me hours took me minutes
and that did free up a lot of my timeto do more of that creative thinking.
And so to your question, I seeintuition playing a role in how we do
(26:57):
technology development going forward.
I think there are a couple of ways.
With AI, we're going tostart to see technologies.
Available to people that may ormay not be tech savvy in ways that
it's never been available before.
How are people goingto use that technology?
We see the commercials on TV.
(27:19):
Now, someone holds up their phone andsays, give me recipes for what I can cook.
What's in here.
That's pretty cool.
So how we, as we start to seepeople's behaviors change.
Those of us behind the scenesthat are building these features,
building these technologiesto put out there into society.
We're going to have to observewhat people are doing with them,
(27:39):
and that's where that's 1 place.
I see intuition being important isobserving and watching how patterns change
and user behavior because of the newtech products we're putting out there and
being able to about where is this going?
Are we again?
Ethically?
Are we building the right thingsin the right ways that are
encouraging healthy behavior?
In society, or are we building somethingthat's going to get people staring at
(28:03):
their phone for even more hours a daywith the head down disconnected from
the world around them being able to lookahead like that look around like that
because these technology tools like AI aredoing a lot of that tedious work for us.
Therefore.
Giving our brains the room to createmore is going to be really important.
(28:24):
We don't want to go down any morepaths that we've gone down building
tech products that are actuallyhurting society in various ways
that weren't foreseen definitelyweren't foreseen from the beginning.
And by the time they were.
The dollars were too ingrained in thatfor people to want to do much about it.
And so I think that, that intuition thatmindfulness, the self awareness on the
(28:46):
part of the people that are developingthese new products is going to be critical
because we are behavior, look at somethingas simple as, and I say simple Uber is,
an idea that we all, I'll come back toyou for various examples and use cases.
Uber changed the way we think about,I'm at home and I need to get from
here, let's say, to the airport.
(29:08):
How am I going to get there?
I'm not going to drive myself, right?
So the angst that used to happen whenyou, I'm going to age myself here, I
would pick up my home phone, I'd lookup the number for the taxi company.
I'd call the taxi company.
I'd tell them where I lived, whereI was going, and then I would wait.
I would have no insight.
I have missed
my
(29:29):
taxi
on
time.
And so in that case somethingas simple as a ride app, you can
open the app and change the wholeexperience is like inside all of
someone who's about to take fixing a
problem.
Yeah, if it's the problem thatremoves some anxiety and it removed
time that people spend waiting.
(29:50):
I don't know if you've ever called a taxi.
We would call them back over and over.
Are they close?
How far away are they?
And then they'd have to call
that
is a significant.
Yeah,
That's a huge shift,
that was a very good example, Heather.
And speaking of fixing a problem, an ideajust came to mind when you were speaking
(30:10):
an app where what do we do for an app?
When we use an app, we'relooking to Get more information.
We're looking to socialize, right?
We're looking to get a laugh.
But what if there's an app where youget point systems and the selected
information come to you at a specificgiven times in the day instead of having
(30:34):
access to it all the time, meaning thatnot using your phone will be will be
promoted and gifted Some sort of a systemwhere they can grow income or something.
I'm just thinking out loud where itallows users not to use their phone, but
also add some excitement to their life.
(30:56):
Yeah, gamifying.
Yeah,
gamifying, putting thephone down and not using it.
I just discovered, and many otherpeople may be aware of this, I just
discovered yesterday and have nowactivated this setting on my iPhone.
The notifications that I get, I onlynow have a two or three tools on my
(31:19):
phone that are allowed to notify me when
same here, they're all off.
My notifications are still on forall of these other apps, but I
group them up now and I can choosethe time of day they all come in.
So Once at a certain point in themorning, and I've chosen one more
time in the evening, my notificationscan all come through, but my phone
(31:40):
isn't dinging throughout the day.
Constantly distracting.
Yeah.
Good idea.
So it's not gamified necessarily.
And that's a really neat, yeah.
Yeah.
But at least I was able to turn a lotof that off and I mean there's, yeah,
it's great idea.
Yeah.
There was a time a few yearsago, I wouldn't have turned that
off if I could have, because Iwas so addicted to the dopamine
(32:01):
consumed.
Yes.
Yeah.
Consumed by it, but that's a great idea.
I, what I did a couple of years ago or soI completely shut off my notifications,
I left all WhatsApp groups and I onlygo to the phone when I want to, when I
need something, not the other way around.
(32:22):
So that was a major shift thatI made and I couldn't be any
more grateful for that decision.
Heather, it's a.
It's great to talk to you.
We could talk forever.
We usually like to keep the episodeup to 30 minutes, 20 to 30 minutes.
It was great chatting with you.
It was very energetic.
Your information is quiteintriguing, what you're sharing.
(32:44):
And I can see some wonderfulproducts coming out in the market.
Definitely keep in touch andthank you for coming on the show.
Thank you for having me.
It's been fun.
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