September 10, 2025 • 31 mins
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What does it really take to scale from a spare bedroom startup to managing over a billion in transactions—without burning out or babysitting “tenants and toilets”? In this episode, Ivan Barratt (Founder/CEO, BAM Companies) breaks down the mindset, culture, and fund strategy behind institutional-grade multifamily. You’ll hear why he launched in the Great Financial Crisis, how core values drive hiring and retention, the real fork in the road (operator vs. passive investor), and why diversified fund structures can improve risk-adjusted outcomes for busy professionals. If you’re weighing single deals vs. funds—or wondering how top operators source $40–$80M assets through broker pipelines—this conversation will sharpen your playbook.
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Chapter Stamps:
01:37 Starting BAM Companies
02:12 Overcoming Challenges
05:12 Building Company Culture
11:41 Scaling and Fund Management
12:55 Investment Strategies
21:51 Creative Financing Insights
26:45 The Importance of Mentorship
Pullout Quotes:
- “I came to this realization that it was gonna be painful and there was gonna be some suffering early on.”
- “If I want a big business, I've gotta learn the people game.”
- “What if we had a management company where people like their job?”
- “We're a loyal, loving family.”
- “The grass may be greener on the other side, but the water bill is probably higher.”
Social:
Website: https://pm.thebamcompanies.com/about/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivanbarratt/
Instagram: www.instagram.com/ivanbarratt/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ivan.barratt/
Disclaimer:
Please be aware that the opinions and perspectives conveyed in this podcast are solely those of our guests and do not necessarily represent the views, ideologies, or principles of Super Entrepreneurs Podcast, its associated entities, or any organizations they represent or are affiliated with. We provide a platform for discussion and exploration, and the content of each episode is understood to be independent expressions from our guests, rather than a reflection of the beliefs held by the podcast or its hosts.
The only limits in our life are those we impose on ourselves.
— Bob Proctor
Affiliate Disclaimer: If you buy through one of the links provided, I may receive a commission (without any additional charge to you).
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
if I can lower your, your risk and Ican give you a higher probability of a
(00:04):
higher return, that is the definitionof finding Alpha in the investment.
(00:29):
Welcome back to SuperEntrepreneurs Podcast.
I'm your host, Shahid Durrani,today we have with us Ivan Barratt.
Ivan is the founderand CEO of the BAM BAM.
journey from mowing lawns for his father'srental properties to managing over
(00:51):
1.73 billion in transactions is quiteinspiring, welcome to our show, Ivan.
Thanks, Shahi.
It's good to be here, man.
I've been looking forward to this one.
Oh, awesome man.
I was too, you know, I know we, wetalked about Neil Bawa a little bit.
He was on the show.
(01:12):
You guys are friends and, and that'sgreat to know because you guys are
doing some amazing things in this, inthis field, you know, impressive stuff.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah, he's a, he's a, he's a great guy.
And always full of newinformation and ideas.
I like, like when we get thechance to play off each other
(01:33):
when we when we get to speak.
Yeah, no, definitely, definitely.
So the BAM companies, you basicallylaunched and scaled that, and on
your own in the beginning, obviously,and you apparently started it with
your spare bedroom, when you firststarted getting the business going.
(01:53):
Was there any kind of moment thatyou felt any kind of resistance,
internal resistance, or if you werefeeling really enthusiastic about that
venture and you were just go, go, go.
Could you share anything from that timewhen you were launching this business?
Yeah.
You know, I was thinking about thatthis morning, Shahied, because I,
(02:15):
I had a feeling you'd go there and,yeah, so, you know, it's, it's 2010.
We, we are still in the greatfinancial crisis, right, the GFC
Yeah.
and I'd been in real estatefor a little over 10 years.
And I'd always wantedto start my own thing.
And I figured, you know,it's, it's now or never.
I've gotta figure this out.
(02:37):
And there was a lot ofconsternation and stress about that.
I, I wanted a big company,I wanted to do big things.
But I finally came to the conclusionthat I needed to sort of check my ego
at the door and really just focus onputting one foot in front of the other.
And I came to this realization thatit was gonna be painful and there
(02:57):
was gonna be some suffering early on.
And and, and really because.
Before we got to be a, you know,world class investment manager,
1,000,000,007 in transactions.
I first had to figure out just how tomanage property for other people and, and
serve those investors in their assets.
(03:17):
And I knew that was gonna bereally difficult dealing with
the proverbial tenants andtoilets and also growing a team.
If, if you if I want a bigbusiness, I've gotta learn the
people game, and I knew that.
Gonna be harder in, in many ways than,than the real estate side of the business.
And I just made this decision that nomatter how hard it was or how much I
(03:41):
suffered, I was just gonna keep getting I.
Up off the mat every time I gotknocked down and refused to quit.
And I started, you know,really early learning every
little part of the business.
Basically one man band.
And then from there startedfiguring out how to, how to
build a team and how to grow it.
And that foundation and managementallowed us to start doing our
(04:03):
own bigger apartment deals.
And then we moved intothe fund management game.
And started doing our own funds.
So instead of buying one deal at a time,we'd buy several portfolios or several
assets inside a portfolio, and then gotbig enough to where we were only managing
our, our own projects where we had avested interest in the upside on behalf
of our, ourselves and our investors.
(04:25):
So yeah, there was someexcitement there, but.
You know, I was just listening tolike a Joe Rogan reel just the other
day that I like to listen to, and I'mlifting weights and it's Joe Rogan
talking about, you know, most daysI get up, I'm not motivated, right?
But I've got to do these things anyway.
I've gotta suck, suck it up,and do what needs to be done,
(04:47):
whether I feel like it or not.
Yeah, you just gotta get it done.
But if you have the feeling with itthat just add, just makes it easier.
You just, you know, it'sjust a different type.
Of jazz in your step, but definitely,if you're trying to grow a business,
you can't let anything stop you.
And that resilience ispaying off right now.
(05:09):
So that's great.
Congratulations on that.
So you mentioned company culture.
The importance of havingculture in driving success.
Yeah.
Can you share how you cultivateculture in your company and how do
you get everyone to buy into it?
Yeah, very proud of theculture we've built here.
(05:31):
That really started in 2015.
I'd been in this for a few years andbanging my head against the wall.
Employment, especially on themaintenance side, was a, a continual
just turns style of people cominginto the business, coming out, hiring,
firing, hiring, firing, very difficult.
And around that time I founda great business partner who
(05:54):
was a much better operator.
Still today.
My partner in this, in this wholething, as we say, keeping the trains
running on time, and a few early keyhires that I, I basically posed this
question, what if we had a managementcompany where people like their job?
What if we could figure out a waywhere property management, as hard
as it is, was, was somehow fun and wewere able to attract people banging
(06:19):
on our door to work here at Bam.
And a lot of the credit for thatgoes to some of my, my leadership
team who, who have helped carrythat proverbial baton with us.
'Cause at the end of the day,it is a, it is a people game.
Some of the details there reallyshape around our core values.
(06:39):
And that's, that's not aspirational.
It's, it's who we are.
Shahid, we we're kind of fun spirit.
If you're too tight laced, you're notreally gonna work out here at bam.
We, we can't take ourselves too seriously.
We work hard, we play hard, we win.
We're a, we're a loyal, loving family.
We still do have family in our core value.
We try to as much as we can, treat peoplelike family and we're loyal to them.
(07:04):
Mm-hmm.
favorite story there is a maintenanceguy that had been working with us
for only a, a few months, maybe sixmonths tops, gets in a motorcycle
accident, and he had not checkedthe disability box on his benefits.
Now, at the time, he was kickingbutt for us and doing an amazing job.
(07:25):
So regardless of the fact that he didn'tcheck that on his benefits, we said,
Hey man, we're gonna take care of you.
We're gonna find a way to keep youpaid while you recover and your job's
still here when you get better and.
The favorite part about that job forme is that my team made that decision
without asking me, because all theyhad to do was look at our core values
(07:47):
and know from our loyalty position thatthat's what we're gonna do for this guy.
And so any chance we can tobe loyal to our, our BAM fam.
Good.
We're gonna do it right.
And then my, my favorite corevalue when people grow bam.
Gross.
And so wherever we can, we're focusedon, we're focused on career growth for
(08:08):
our people before hiring somebody fromthe outside to, to take that position.
And then we do a lot of things to bring.
Together quarterly events.
Next Saturday, we do an old schoolstyle corporate family cookout.
We bring everybody in from sevenstates, their family, their
children, if they wanna bring 'em,
I'm
do
too, I guess.
(08:29):
come.
What's that?
Yeah.
Come coming, coming to Indy doing an oldschool style, you know, corporate family.
What's that?
I'll come out and do an I.
Yeah, you, you, you candefinitely come too, man.
Come.
We we're, we'll be playing games andcornhole and dunk the CEO and all, all.
(08:50):
All kinds of fun stuff we've done there.
We do a big blowout Christmasparty at the end of the year.
It's like a it's like a wedding.
Everybody's dressed to the nines,played at dinner after party, big award
ceremony to, to, to get the accoladesof the people that, that have really
outshine this, the over the pastyear and just all these little things
(09:10):
and these big things that add up to,to culture, and it, it shows up in.
Employee surveys and the culturescores we get internally and so
many things sort of smooth out.
So many rough edges bumps in the roadare smoothed out when you can achieve
great culture inside the organization.
Mm. And you do have that naturalenergy about you as well, from what I'm
(09:36):
sensing is that people gravitate to you.
Right?
And, and you have the ability tocreate that family oriented environment
because of that energy, I feel.
Oh, tell me more.
Yeah.
But is
No, I, I.
had?
Like did you, were you,throughout your life, did you
(09:57):
have that ability with people?
Well, I figured out earlyon that my, my best skill is
sales and influencing others.
And so as I've, as I've grownthe business, I've used that
ability to sell, to help usraise capital for our investments
Yeah.
and that ability to influenceothers to get buy-in from the team
(10:17):
on the vision I have for where wewant to take the, the company as a
whole, and then what I have to do.
As a leader is, once I've got that personbought in to that vision is I get out
of their way even when they screw up.
I have to let somelittle bad things happen,
them.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
otherwise I can't scale.
Right?
I, I passed my ability to work harderyears ago, and now I've got three,
(10:41):
three little kids and a, a marriageto protect and try to stay fit.
So a lot going on.
Yeah,
I can't scale without great people.
No, you can't do it alone.
And you gotta do it with the rightpeople and the right attitude, and
definitely, you must have that inyour environment to be able to scale
this big, because it's, for me, whatyou, how you vibe is everything.
(11:05):
Thing is, is more than what you sayto me or what people say is what I
sense is what means a lot, you know?
And, that's why I'm gratefulfor this show, right?
I get to have that ability to be ableto be in that environment to kind of
see, you know, who, who to do businesswith, who can I, you know, grow with,
(11:27):
because if you're not alignedenergetically, it's very hard to
even start with a relationship,
for sure, for sure.
Yeah.
So how do you get your deals, brother?
Yeah, so at, at our levelnow, a typical deal's gonna be
anywhere from 40 to 80 million.
(11:48):
yeah.
And so like, like a rentalproperty or an $80 million deal.
The a lot of it runs through brokers.
Brokers.
Yeah.
So at, at this level, we've gotgreat brokers across the country
that bring us deal flow, some ofthat off market, some of that not.
But they're the ones that are out therechasing the owners, looking for assets
(12:12):
that may be coming up for and bringingus a, a, a big pipeline of of, of.
Deals to potentially look at and typicallywe're looking at 80 to a hundred of 'em
to find one that has all the aspectswe need to make sure that we can hit
the returns that our investors expectto to continue to invest with us.
(12:38):
Okay.
And
Yeah.
invest with you guys, is it accredited?
Only Right.
Correct.
So because we solicit online or onYouTube, Google search, all kinds
of different advertising platforms,
to
Those investors have to beaccredited to come on board.
Yep.
Okay.
So, when it comes to multifamilyinvesting, is there anything they
(13:00):
can share with the audience that theyshould be aware of in today's market?
It, it, you know, it's been a greatmarket to buy and I think there's a lot
of successful people out there that wantto have real estate in their portfolio.
They, they just naturally knowthat, that having some real estate
(13:21):
in the portfolio is a good idea.
Stocks and bonds.
I'm not one of these crazy guys.
It says, Hey, all youshould buy is real estate.
You wanna diversifyportfolio as an investor.
What most people need to decide is wherethey're going on this fork in the road.
Is it left or right?
Left is being me, being a full-timeowner, operator, manager of
(13:41):
assets, which is a heavy lift.
And then the otherdirection is why I exist.
It's for the successfulinvestors out there.
They've already got a career.
Or a business.
They've got families, they've gothobbies, they've got all these things
in their, their pie chart of life.
And if they would stop and get educatedfirst and understand what it takes
(14:04):
to be successful in real estate,they'll come to the conclusion that
they should be a passive investorin this asset class and partner
with operators like me or, or Neil.
Or dozens of others out there whoare doing it full time, who offer
great returns without the timecommitment that real estate takes.
It is a very management intensive in.
(14:31):
Yeah, but why do people try to go and,you know, find their own deals and do
their own deals when there's companieslike yourself that simplify everything?
There's some obvious reasons,but are there any other
pointers that you could share?
Why people, lean more towardstrying to find their own assets?
(14:56):
Yeah.
I mean, I think part of it isit's ego, part of it is control.
When you, when you partner with me, you,you're, you're not in control anymore.
You're, you're giving over the managementreins to, to me, you, you may own the
restaurant, but I'm deaf in the kitchen.
And I, so I think, I think a lotof people want to control it.
I, I think there's some miseducationout there that you can make
(15:17):
a bigger return on your own.
And while you may be able to do thatonce or twice consistently over the
long haul, I'm gonna outperform you.
So we get a, we get a lot of investorsthat have two rental properties, 12
rental properties, commercial properties.
It's, and so they've been investingand they are sick and tired of
(15:38):
dealing with the the tenants andthe maintenance and the upkeep.
And the basically the second job thatthey have managing their own portfolio.
So they're looking totransition out of that.
Now, let's go back to that accreditedinvestor point you made earlier,
Shahid, if you're not an accreditedinvestor yet and you're young.
(16:00):
And you've got more time on your handsand maybe you don't have kids yet,
or a job that takes up a ton of time.
You know, owning a rental property orhouse hacking a two unit or a four unit
is probably a great idea and a goodway to start building some wealth in
your portfolio with your own two hands.
(16:22):
Hmm.
Yeah.
Just to get the ball rolling,
yeah, the, the other fun story, if,if, if I could go on for a, a minute
here, I'll give you one anecdote.
I'll give you one anecdote.
A guy calls me, Hey man, I, youknow, I sold my software business.
I've got, you know, 40 million in the bankand my, my next adventure is real estate.
(16:43):
And it's kind of, and he is kind of gotthis attitude, how hard could it be?
I've bought a house or I boughta rental property, I'm gonna
go full-time real estate.
And so my response to that guywas, Hey, that, that's so funny.
You called, I'm thinking ofselling my real estate business
and starting a software company.
How hard could it be
(17:04):
That usually gets left
Yeah.
What was his
the gr.
Oh, he, he, he laughed.
He, he's, he's become an investor of mineand he's doing a little bit on his own.
'cause he's got kids that are,that are trying to learn the game.
But it, it reminds me ofanother saying I heard recently.
That's a new favorite of mine,which is the the grass may be
(17:25):
greener on the other side, butthe water bill is probably higher.
Ah, that's a good one.
It is different
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah, I like that.
Do you have the rights?
Are you gonna use that more often or isit the first time you used it on a show?
I.
Oh, you know, it's, it's, it's allopen source, free for the taking.
(17:49):
So if you ever hear me on the show, say itagain, then you know where I got it from,
My heart will cut.
My heart will go outta my shirt if Ihear you say it on another episode.
Well, I'm not gonna do that toyou, Ivan, so, but it might happen.
So I'm just putting it out there.
But that is incredible.
What you're doing forother people and investors.
Can you share why you were in the singleasset, dealing with the single asset
(18:13):
deals and managing it in the beginning,and you moved into the fund model.
Can you share any, any, you know,
or issues going andcreating a fund instead?
It's, it is incredibly difficult.
I had to do I think a little over adozen single deals and return capital to
(18:37):
investors selling some of those assetsand going what we call full cycle, where,
where they see the proof in the pudding.
Going to a fund was, was markedly harder.
But the advantages to me, shahi, arethat I don't have to drop everything I'm
doing, cancel a vacation with the family.
When a deal falls in my lap with a fund,I can increase my, my capital raise
(19:00):
runway, and I can build up dry powder.
Two deals land in my lap.
At the same time, I've got more drypowder to to pounce on those deals.
And then for the investor,it adds more diversification.
So instead of you and me going out andbuying a 250 unit deal together, and maybe
you put in a hundred grand or a millionbucks instead of me spreading your million
across 250 apartments in one location,I'm spreading it across 2000 apartments.
(19:27):
Across several markets.
And so you've gotta let a lot lessdownside there and then use the
individual investor no longer.
Also, no longer have to determine iflike, this is Ivan's home run, or is,
is my next deal gonna be my home run?
Or maybe the deal after that,you're gonna participate in all
(19:48):
the acquisitions in that investmentperiod, which were usually.
Doing a fund every two years.
And so you're gonna participate inthe ones that do okay, and the ones
that, that hit it outta the park.
And that does maybe reduce the overallreturn of the fund a little bit.
But you didn't accidentally justinvest in my, my normal average
(20:11):
return, which is still great.
And you didn't miss out on the homerun, so, so your, your odds of a
higher overall return are higher.
So they end up being higher.
The odds are right, I can't guarantee it.
We're still in, we're stillin the investment game, so
there are no guarantees.
But if I can, if I can lower your,your risk and I can give you a
(20:33):
higher probability of a higherreturn, that is the definition of
finding Alpha in the investment.
So do you have fund of funds as well?
All, all the deals we do, we areeither the the only general partner,
meaning, meaning the fund is investingdirectly into a deal, or in some
(20:54):
cases we're co general partners
Got
another
Okay.
or developer, but we are, we're notwhat you would call a fund of funds.
We have funds of fundsthat invest into our fund
That's
then.
actually.
Like do you
Yeah, so we have, we have what we,what we might call a, a feeder fund or
another fund that invests into our fund.
(21:16):
And then our fund specifically ismandated to invest directly into
real estate assets, specificallywhat we call investment grade
or institutional multifamily.
So you're not buying a littlerental property or some old.
Old ass apartments.
You're buying, you know, infinityPool clubhouse, you know, yoga studio,
(21:38):
pickle Mall, nice units, right, right.
In a great school district withlots of different kinds of jobs
within, within commute times.
Hmm.
what are your thoughtson creative financing
I love it, man.
I started my career in creative financing.
Yeah.
My second and third dealwere owner financed.
(22:01):
And when I was still cutting my teethdoing little deals, I was buying small.
All distressed multifamily.
I, I found the worst deal in thebest neighborhood I could find
distressed properties with distressedsellers that just wanted to get out.
And I used what was called back thenhard money or private money to buy.
Deal, renovate the deal, rentit, refinance, and repeat.
(22:25):
And so creative financing.
If, if you want to be a real estateoperator, it's very important to get
educated in, in creative finance and someof those early ideas we're still using.
Today, we, we raise what'scalled common equity.
We raise our own preferred equity andwe're also giving our investors access
to debt products so that that accreditedinvestor who's maybe retired now or they
(22:50):
sold their business and they've, they'vegenerated the wealth and now they just
want to get good income off that wealth.
Instead of risking it further,they maybe wanna live off
that, that income distribution.
They can now come along, invest with meand be the bank on, on investment grade
institutional real estate for that deal.
(23:13):
5 million net worth is theminimum that qualification to
invest in that, that strategy.
Hmm.
So, being this position with the showand meeting wonderful people like
yourself, Ivan you know, I, I. Andaudience, obviously, I, I do get a flow
(23:35):
of, of deals from brokers and, and,and other sources that come my way.
You, you obviously wouldn't look atanything like that because your minimum is
a specific criteria because it's a fund.
Correct.
If I shared some deals with you, I meant.
Oh gosh.
(23:56):
I mean, we, we get dealsfrom all kinds of sources.
If it's a deal, you know,we're, we're pretty tight
with what we call our buy box.
So we're,
Mm-hmm.
looking in Midwest because ofthe, the steady nature of that
market versus some of the boombust markets around the country.
So we're Pittsburgh to Kansas City.
Indianapolis, Michigan south toRogers, Arkansas, the fastest growing
(24:19):
small city in the country right now.
And so we're, we're looking atthose middle landlord friendly
or what we call the red states.
And a, a typical deal for us.
A typical deal for us needsto be at least 30 million, but
preferably it's 40, 50, 60 million.
So if you're in the buybox, man, let us know.
Okay.
(24:39):
something, buy box for sure.
Yeah.
My criteria usually that I put out thereis off market open to creative financing.
Good NOI a minimum, I would say 50 doors.
I have different buy boxesthat I can, funnel it through.
(24:59):
But I just wanted to ask you as well,
yeah, sounds like you knowthe game a little bit.
Yeah.
I'm meeting different opportunitiesor sources of income, if you may say,
learning from you guys, you know,that you, you, you put so much energy
and effort and passion into whatyou do and not just real estate and
(25:20):
different I products and services.
You know, I get enthusiastic about it, Iwanna learn, I wanna see how I can help,
because of the exposure, I'm able to putanything under this umbrella as long as
it's helping others, if that makes sense.
No, I love it.
I love the approach, I love the approach.
(25:40):
Yeah, our, our minimum door count.
It's typically gonna be 250 ifwe're not in the market already.
'cause we manage everything.
So I've gotta, I've gotta get a, abig beachhead to enter a new market.
And if it's a market we're already in, wemay, we may look at a hundred and thirty,
a hundred forty, a hundred fifty units.
That's a, you know, a straightdown the fairway add-on if
(26:02):
we're in that market already.
And then from a venture standpoint, webuy class a newer than 2015 apartments.
And our basic strategy is we look formismanaged or undermanaged assets.
Outta state Fund owns it.
Private equity group owns it.
(26:23):
They're outta state and we targetmediocre third party managers
that aren't necessarily doing a,a terrible job, but they're not
optimizing it like owner would.
Yeah, definitely.
Well, thank you for sharing that.
It's really important for me to know whensomething clicks, I know where to go.
So this is great.
(26:43):
Thank you so much for sharing.
And you also mentioned, and I love this.
It's so important.
But you mentioned the importance ofmentorship, can you share how your
experience with having a mentor hadreally huge impact on your career?
Absolutely.
(27:04):
Gosh, we could do a whole two hour podcaston mentorship, peer groups and coaching.
I would say those have been three of, ofmy greatest sources of personal growth.
Very lucky or fortunate early onto have a great real estate mentor.
Still take 'em out to lunchor get him on the phone.
Any chance I get and that, thatdrives me to pay it forward when when
(27:28):
young up and comers reach out to me.
And then I think even more so than thatfrom sort of a, a day to day or, or normal
routine cadence would be being in, in peergroups trying to find ones that have some
like-minded people, but also some folksthat are a little higher up the mountain.
And also typically those networks likeI'm in YPO and Tiger 21, give me amazing
(27:53):
access to wisdom via other CEOs thatI can now get on the phone that are,
that are way up, that mountaintop, thatare willing to talk to me because of
where I'm at in the networks I'm in.
And then of course the, the finalicing on the cake would be in any area
of my life where I want improvement.
I've got a coach, so got atrainer that comes to the house.
(28:16):
It kicks my butt five days a week.
Awesome.
my wife and my wife and I are, youknow, proud to say we, we, we get a
third party in the room anytime we'rea little off the rails, you know
'cause it's a, a big busy life we lead.
So having some some marriagecoaching, we've got a parent, a parent
Very
come alongside us.
(28:36):
'cause we got three world changing crazykids that are that are, that are, you
know, gonna be great humans one day.
But it can be tough to raise.
And personal coaching as well in,in business and, and all those
other categories of spirit and faithand fun and course making money.
But I find if all these other things onmy report card in business and in life
(29:00):
are, are getting good grades, the money'sjust the byproduct rather than the focus.
Mm-hmm.
That's great.
Because the level of importance whereyou want to get somewhere, you know
what you need to do to get there.
It's very, you, you, the way you'respeaking about it is, is simplifying it.
(29:20):
For everybody because any area youwant to improve, you get someone that
has already been there and ask fortheir help, and you're doing that in
various areas of your personal andprofessional life, which is great.
Yeah, it's not, it's not rocket science.
Is it Shahid?
It's, it is.
Maybe not.
It's maybe not easy, and sometimespeople get hung up or find it difficult.
(29:45):
It's pretty simple at its core.
It's just not always easy to execute.
Mm.
But if you can, if you can just movethese little steps, you know, one, one
foot in front of the other, one dayat a time, they'll start compounding.
yeah.
No.
Wonderful.
So for our people in the audience,if you're on the audio or if you're
(30:05):
on video or if your audio, just hopover to video and leave us a comment,
you know, and share with us if amentor has impacted your life in any
way, and what lessons you learned.
From it.
We would love to hear from you.
Been such a wonderfulconversation and especially.
(30:25):
Grateful for the opportunity to be inyour presence to, read that energy and
what you're doing with your life andothers because you're creating a platform
can impact people that are out there.
Looking for this kind of help, youknow, because it's really, really noisy.
(30:46):
There's a lot of opportunities, especially with ai.
Everybody is on that race trying tofind out what's that product that we
can launch and ai, and real estateis such a thing that doesn't matter
what phase the world goes through.
You can always come back to realestate because it's part of the earth.
It's, it's is.
Yeah,
with, you're doing business on somethingthat's on the earth, that's so special.
(31:12):
well, I like rooftops.
No matter what happens,people need a place to live.
Yeah.
that was great, Ivan.
Appreciate your time.
Thank you so much.
And audience, thank youfor joining us today.
Honored to be here
if I can lower your, your risk and Ican give you a higher probability of a
(00:04):
higher return, that is the definitionof finding Alpha in the investment.
(00:29):
Welcome back to SuperEntrepreneurs Podcast.
I'm your host, Shahid Durrani,today we have with us Ivan Barratt.
Ivan is the founderand CEO of the BAM BAM.
journey from mowing lawns for his father'srental properties to managing over
(00:51):
1.73 billion in transactions is quiteinspiring, welcome to our show, Ivan.
Thanks, Shahi.
It's good to be here, man.
I've been looking forward to this one.
Oh, awesome man.
I was too, you know, I know we, wetalked about Neil Bawa a little bit.
He was on the show.
(01:12):
You guys are friends and, and that'sgreat to know because you guys are
doing some amazing things in this, inthis field, you know, impressive stuff.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah, he's a, he's a, he's a great guy.
And always full of newinformation and ideas.
I like, like when we get thechance to play off each other
(01:33):
when we when we get to speak.
Yeah, no, definitely, definitely.
So the BAM companies, you basicallylaunched and scaled that, and on
your own in the beginning, obviously,and you apparently started it with
your spare bedroom, when you firststarted getting the business going.
(01:53):
Was there any kind of moment thatyou felt any kind of resistance,
internal resistance, or if you werefeeling really enthusiastic about that
venture and you were just go, go, go.
Could you share anything from that timewhen you were launching this business?
Yeah.
You know, I was thinking about thatthis morning, Shahied, because I,
(02:15):
I had a feeling you'd go there and,yeah, so, you know, it's, it's 2010.
We, we are still in the greatfinancial crisis, right, the GFC
Yeah.
and I'd been in real estatefor a little over 10 years.
And I'd always wantedto start my own thing.
And I figured, you know,it's, it's now or never.
I've gotta figure this out.
(02:37):
And there was a lot ofconsternation and stress about that.
I, I wanted a big company,I wanted to do big things.
But I finally came to the conclusionthat I needed to sort of check my ego
at the door and really just focus onputting one foot in front of the other.
And I came to this realization thatit was gonna be painful and there
(02:57):
was gonna be some suffering early on.
And and, and really because.
Before we got to be a, you know,world class investment manager,
1,000,000,007 in transactions.
I first had to figure out just how tomanage property for other people and, and
serve those investors in their assets.
(03:17):
And I knew that was gonna bereally difficult dealing with
the proverbial tenants andtoilets and also growing a team.
If, if you if I want a bigbusiness, I've gotta learn the
people game, and I knew that.
Gonna be harder in, in many ways than,than the real estate side of the business.
And I just made this decision that nomatter how hard it was or how much I
(03:41):
suffered, I was just gonna keep getting I.
Up off the mat every time I gotknocked down and refused to quit.
And I started, you know,really early learning every
little part of the business.
Basically one man band.
And then from there startedfiguring out how to, how to
build a team and how to grow it.
And that foundation and managementallowed us to start doing our
(04:03):
own bigger apartment deals.
And then we moved intothe fund management game.
And started doing our own funds.
So instead of buying one deal at a time,we'd buy several portfolios or several
assets inside a portfolio, and then gotbig enough to where we were only managing
our, our own projects where we had avested interest in the upside on behalf
of our, ourselves and our investors.
(04:25):
So yeah, there was someexcitement there, but.
You know, I was just listening tolike a Joe Rogan reel just the other
day that I like to listen to, and I'mlifting weights and it's Joe Rogan
talking about, you know, most daysI get up, I'm not motivated, right?
But I've got to do these things anyway.
I've gotta suck, suck it up,and do what needs to be done,
(04:47):
whether I feel like it or not.
Yeah, you just gotta get it done.
But if you have the feeling with itthat just add, just makes it easier.
You just, you know, it'sjust a different type.
Of jazz in your step, but definitely,if you're trying to grow a business,
you can't let anything stop you.
And that resilience ispaying off right now.
(05:09):
So that's great.
Congratulations on that.
So you mentioned company culture.
The importance of havingculture in driving success.
Yeah.
Can you share how you cultivateculture in your company and how do
you get everyone to buy into it?
Yeah, very proud of theculture we've built here.
(05:31):
That really started in 2015.
I'd been in this for a few years andbanging my head against the wall.
Employment, especially on themaintenance side, was a, a continual
just turns style of people cominginto the business, coming out, hiring,
firing, hiring, firing, very difficult.
And around that time I founda great business partner who
(05:54):
was a much better operator.
Still today.
My partner in this, in this wholething, as we say, keeping the trains
running on time, and a few early keyhires that I, I basically posed this
question, what if we had a managementcompany where people like their job?
What if we could figure out a waywhere property management, as hard
as it is, was, was somehow fun and wewere able to attract people banging
(06:19):
on our door to work here at Bam.
And a lot of the credit for thatgoes to some of my, my leadership
team who, who have helped carrythat proverbial baton with us.
'Cause at the end of the day,it is a, it is a people game.
Some of the details there reallyshape around our core values.
(06:39):
And that's, that's not aspirational.
It's, it's who we are.
Shahid, we we're kind of fun spirit.
If you're too tight laced, you're notreally gonna work out here at bam.
We, we can't take ourselves too seriously.
We work hard, we play hard, we win.
We're a, we're a loyal, loving family.
We still do have family in our core value.
We try to as much as we can, treat peoplelike family and we're loyal to them.
(07:04):
Mm-hmm.
favorite story there is a maintenanceguy that had been working with us
for only a, a few months, maybe sixmonths tops, gets in a motorcycle
accident, and he had not checkedthe disability box on his benefits.
Now, at the time, he was kickingbutt for us and doing an amazing job.
(07:25):
So regardless of the fact that he didn'tcheck that on his benefits, we said,
Hey man, we're gonna take care of you.
We're gonna find a way to keep youpaid while you recover and your job's
still here when you get better and.
The favorite part about that job forme is that my team made that decision
without asking me, because all theyhad to do was look at our core values
(07:47):
and know from our loyalty position thatthat's what we're gonna do for this guy.
And so any chance we can tobe loyal to our, our BAM fam.
Good.
We're gonna do it right.
And then my, my favorite corevalue when people grow bam.
Gross.
And so wherever we can, we're focusedon, we're focused on career growth for
(08:08):
our people before hiring somebody fromthe outside to, to take that position.
And then we do a lot of things to bring.
Together quarterly events.
Next Saturday, we do an old schoolstyle corporate family cookout.
We bring everybody in from sevenstates, their family, their
children, if they wanna bring 'em,
I'm
do
too, I guess.
(08:29):
come.
What's that?
Yeah.
Come coming, coming to Indy doing an oldschool style, you know, corporate family.
What's that?
I'll come out and do an I.
Yeah, you, you, you candefinitely come too, man.
Come.
We we're, we'll be playing games andcornhole and dunk the CEO and all, all.
(08:50):
All kinds of fun stuff we've done there.
We do a big blowout Christmasparty at the end of the year.
It's like a it's like a wedding.
Everybody's dressed to the nines,played at dinner after party, big award
ceremony to, to, to get the accoladesof the people that, that have really
outshine this, the over the pastyear and just all these little things
(09:10):
and these big things that add up to,to culture, and it, it shows up in.
Employee surveys and the culturescores we get internally and so
many things sort of smooth out.
So many rough edges bumps in the roadare smoothed out when you can achieve
great culture inside the organization.
Mm. And you do have that naturalenergy about you as well, from what I'm
(09:36):
sensing is that people gravitate to you.
Right?
And, and you have the ability tocreate that family oriented environment
because of that energy, I feel.
Oh, tell me more.
Yeah.
But is
No, I, I.
had?
Like did you, were you,throughout your life, did you
(09:57):
have that ability with people?
Well, I figured out earlyon that my, my best skill is
sales and influencing others.
And so as I've, as I've grownthe business, I've used that
ability to sell, to help usraise capital for our investments
Yeah.
and that ability to influenceothers to get buy-in from the team
(10:17):
on the vision I have for where wewant to take the, the company as a
whole, and then what I have to do.
As a leader is, once I've got that personbought in to that vision is I get out
of their way even when they screw up.
I have to let somelittle bad things happen,
them.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
otherwise I can't scale.
Right?
I, I passed my ability to work harderyears ago, and now I've got three,
(10:41):
three little kids and a, a marriageto protect and try to stay fit.
So a lot going on.
Yeah,
I can't scale without great people.
No, you can't do it alone.
And you gotta do it with the rightpeople and the right attitude, and
definitely, you must have that inyour environment to be able to scale
this big, because it's, for me, whatyou, how you vibe is everything.
(11:05):
Thing is, is more than what you sayto me or what people say is what I
sense is what means a lot, you know?
And, that's why I'm gratefulfor this show, right?
I get to have that ability to be ableto be in that environment to kind of
see, you know, who, who to do businesswith, who can I, you know, grow with,
(11:27):
because if you're not alignedenergetically, it's very hard to
even start with a relationship,
for sure, for sure.
Yeah.
So how do you get your deals, brother?
Yeah, so at, at our levelnow, a typical deal's gonna be
anywhere from 40 to 80 million.
(11:48):
yeah.
And so like, like a rentalproperty or an $80 million deal.
The a lot of it runs through brokers.
Brokers.
Yeah.
So at, at this level, we've gotgreat brokers across the country
that bring us deal flow, some ofthat off market, some of that not.
But they're the ones that are out therechasing the owners, looking for assets
(12:12):
that may be coming up for and bringingus a, a, a big pipeline of of, of.
Deals to potentially look at and typicallywe're looking at 80 to a hundred of 'em
to find one that has all the aspectswe need to make sure that we can hit
the returns that our investors expectto to continue to invest with us.
(12:38):
Okay.
And
Yeah.
invest with you guys, is it accredited?
Only Right.
Correct.
So because we solicit online or onYouTube, Google search, all kinds
of different advertising platforms,
to
Those investors have to beaccredited to come on board.
Yep.
Okay.
So, when it comes to multifamilyinvesting, is there anything they
(13:00):
can share with the audience that theyshould be aware of in today's market?
It, it, you know, it's been a greatmarket to buy and I think there's a lot
of successful people out there that wantto have real estate in their portfolio.
They, they just naturally knowthat, that having some real estate
(13:21):
in the portfolio is a good idea.
Stocks and bonds.
I'm not one of these crazy guys.
It says, Hey, all youshould buy is real estate.
You wanna diversifyportfolio as an investor.
What most people need to decide is wherethey're going on this fork in the road.
Is it left or right?
Left is being me, being a full-timeowner, operator, manager of
(13:41):
assets, which is a heavy lift.
And then the otherdirection is why I exist.
It's for the successfulinvestors out there.
They've already got a career.
Or a business.
They've got families, they've gothobbies, they've got all these things
in their, their pie chart of life.
And if they would stop and get educatedfirst and understand what it takes
(14:04):
to be successful in real estate,they'll come to the conclusion that
they should be a passive investorin this asset class and partner
with operators like me or, or Neil.
Or dozens of others out there whoare doing it full time, who offer
great returns without the timecommitment that real estate takes.
It is a very management intensive in.
(14:31):
Yeah, but why do people try to go and,you know, find their own deals and do
their own deals when there's companieslike yourself that simplify everything?
There's some obvious reasons,but are there any other
pointers that you could share?
Why people, lean more towardstrying to find their own assets?
(14:56):
Yeah.
I mean, I think part of it isit's ego, part of it is control.
When you, when you partner with me, you,you're, you're not in control anymore.
You're, you're giving over the managementreins to, to me, you, you may own the
restaurant, but I'm deaf in the kitchen.
And I, so I think, I think a lotof people want to control it.
I, I think there's some miseducationout there that you can make
(15:17):
a bigger return on your own.
And while you may be able to do thatonce or twice consistently over the
long haul, I'm gonna outperform you.
So we get a, we get a lot of investorsthat have two rental properties, 12
rental properties, commercial properties.
It's, and so they've been investingand they are sick and tired of
(15:38):
dealing with the the tenants andthe maintenance and the upkeep.
And the basically the second job thatthey have managing their own portfolio.
So they're looking totransition out of that.
Now, let's go back to that accreditedinvestor point you made earlier,
Shahid, if you're not an accreditedinvestor yet and you're young.
(16:00):
And you've got more time on your handsand maybe you don't have kids yet,
or a job that takes up a ton of time.
You know, owning a rental property orhouse hacking a two unit or a four unit
is probably a great idea and a goodway to start building some wealth in
your portfolio with your own two hands.
(16:22):
Hmm.
Yeah.
Just to get the ball rolling,
yeah, the, the other fun story, if,if, if I could go on for a, a minute
here, I'll give you one anecdote.
I'll give you one anecdote.
A guy calls me, Hey man, I, youknow, I sold my software business.
I've got, you know, 40 million in the bankand my, my next adventure is real estate.
(16:43):
And it's kind of, and he is kind of gotthis attitude, how hard could it be?
I've bought a house or I boughta rental property, I'm gonna
go full-time real estate.
And so my response to that guywas, Hey, that, that's so funny.
You called, I'm thinking ofselling my real estate business
and starting a software company.
How hard could it be
(17:04):
That usually gets left
Yeah.
What was his
the gr.
Oh, he, he, he laughed.
He, he's, he's become an investor of mineand he's doing a little bit on his own.
'cause he's got kids that are,that are trying to learn the game.
But it, it reminds me ofanother saying I heard recently.
That's a new favorite of mine,which is the the grass may be
(17:25):
greener on the other side, butthe water bill is probably higher.
Ah, that's a good one.
It is different
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah, I like that.
Do you have the rights?
Are you gonna use that more often or isit the first time you used it on a show?
I.
Oh, you know, it's, it's, it's allopen source, free for the taking.
(17:49):
So if you ever hear me on the show, say itagain, then you know where I got it from,
My heart will cut.
My heart will go outta my shirt if Ihear you say it on another episode.
Well, I'm not gonna do that toyou, Ivan, so, but it might happen.
So I'm just putting it out there.
But that is incredible.
What you're doing forother people and investors.
Can you share why you were in the singleasset, dealing with the single asset
(18:13):
deals and managing it in the beginning,and you moved into the fund model.
Can you share any, any, you know,
or issues going andcreating a fund instead?
It's, it is incredibly difficult.
I had to do I think a little over adozen single deals and return capital to
(18:37):
investors selling some of those assetsand going what we call full cycle, where,
where they see the proof in the pudding.
Going to a fund was, was markedly harder.
But the advantages to me, shahi, arethat I don't have to drop everything I'm
doing, cancel a vacation with the family.
When a deal falls in my lap with a fund,I can increase my, my capital raise
(19:00):
runway, and I can build up dry powder.
Two deals land in my lap.
At the same time, I've got more drypowder to to pounce on those deals.
And then for the investor,it adds more diversification.
So instead of you and me going out andbuying a 250 unit deal together, and maybe
you put in a hundred grand or a millionbucks instead of me spreading your million
across 250 apartments in one location,I'm spreading it across 2000 apartments.
(19:27):
Across several markets.
And so you've gotta let a lot lessdownside there and then use the
individual investor no longer.
Also, no longer have to determine iflike, this is Ivan's home run, or is,
is my next deal gonna be my home run?
Or maybe the deal after that,you're gonna participate in all
(19:48):
the acquisitions in that investmentperiod, which were usually.
Doing a fund every two years.
And so you're gonna participate inthe ones that do okay, and the ones
that, that hit it outta the park.
And that does maybe reduce the overallreturn of the fund a little bit.
But you didn't accidentally justinvest in my, my normal average
(20:11):
return, which is still great.
And you didn't miss out on the homerun, so, so your, your odds of a
higher overall return are higher.
So they end up being higher.
The odds are right, I can't guarantee it.
We're still in, we're stillin the investment game, so
there are no guarantees.
But if I can, if I can lower your,your risk and I can give you a
(20:33):
higher probability of a higherreturn, that is the definition of
finding Alpha in the investment.
So do you have fund of funds as well?
All, all the deals we do, we areeither the the only general partner,
meaning, meaning the fund is investingdirectly into a deal, or in some
(20:54):
cases we're co general partners
Got
another
Okay.
or developer, but we are, we're notwhat you would call a fund of funds.
We have funds of fundsthat invest into our fund
That's
then.
actually.
Like do you
Yeah, so we have, we have what we,what we might call a, a feeder fund or
another fund that invests into our fund.
(21:16):
And then our fund specifically ismandated to invest directly into
real estate assets, specificallywhat we call investment grade
or institutional multifamily.
So you're not buying a littlerental property or some old.
Old ass apartments.
You're buying, you know, infinityPool clubhouse, you know, yoga studio,
(21:38):
pickle Mall, nice units, right, right.
In a great school district withlots of different kinds of jobs
within, within commute times.
Hmm.
what are your thoughtson creative financing
I love it, man.
I started my career in creative financing.
Yeah.
My second and third dealwere owner financed.
(22:01):
And when I was still cutting my teethdoing little deals, I was buying small.
All distressed multifamily.
I, I found the worst deal in thebest neighborhood I could find
distressed properties with distressedsellers that just wanted to get out.
And I used what was called back thenhard money or private money to buy.
Deal, renovate the deal, rentit, refinance, and repeat.
(22:25):
And so creative financing.
If, if you want to be a real estateoperator, it's very important to get
educated in, in creative finance and someof those early ideas we're still using.
Today, we, we raise what'scalled common equity.
We raise our own preferred equity andwe're also giving our investors access
to debt products so that that accreditedinvestor who's maybe retired now or they
(22:50):
sold their business and they've, they'vegenerated the wealth and now they just
want to get good income off that wealth.
Instead of risking it further,they maybe wanna live off
that, that income distribution.
They can now come along, invest with meand be the bank on, on investment grade
institutional real estate for that deal.
(23:13):
5 million net worth is theminimum that qualification to
invest in that, that strategy.
Hmm.
So, being this position with the showand meeting wonderful people like
yourself, Ivan you know, I, I. Andaudience, obviously, I, I do get a flow
(23:35):
of, of deals from brokers and, and,and other sources that come my way.
You, you obviously wouldn't look atanything like that because your minimum is
a specific criteria because it's a fund.
Correct.
If I shared some deals with you, I meant.
Oh gosh.
(23:56):
I mean, we, we get dealsfrom all kinds of sources.
If it's a deal, you know,we're, we're pretty tight
with what we call our buy box.
So we're,
Mm-hmm.
looking in Midwest because ofthe, the steady nature of that
market versus some of the boombust markets around the country.
So we're Pittsburgh to Kansas City.
Indianapolis, Michigan south toRogers, Arkansas, the fastest growing
(24:19):
small city in the country right now.
And so we're, we're looking atthose middle landlord friendly
or what we call the red states.
And a, a typical deal for us.
A typical deal for us needsto be at least 30 million, but
preferably it's 40, 50, 60 million.
So if you're in the buybox, man, let us know.
Okay.
(24:39):
something, buy box for sure.
Yeah.
My criteria usually that I put out thereis off market open to creative financing.
Good NOI a minimum, I would say 50 doors.
I have different buy boxesthat I can, funnel it through.
(24:59):
But I just wanted to ask you as well,
yeah, sounds like you knowthe game a little bit.
Yeah.
I'm meeting different opportunitiesor sources of income, if you may say,
learning from you guys, you know,that you, you, you put so much energy
and effort and passion into whatyou do and not just real estate and
(25:20):
different I products and services.
You know, I get enthusiastic about it, Iwanna learn, I wanna see how I can help,
because of the exposure, I'm able to putanything under this umbrella as long as
it's helping others, if that makes sense.
No, I love it.
I love the approach, I love the approach.
(25:40):
Yeah, our, our minimum door count.
It's typically gonna be 250 ifwe're not in the market already.
'cause we manage everything.
So I've gotta, I've gotta get a, abig beachhead to enter a new market.
And if it's a market we're already in, wemay, we may look at a hundred and thirty,
a hundred forty, a hundred fifty units.
That's a, you know, a straightdown the fairway add-on if
(26:02):
we're in that market already.
And then from a venture standpoint, webuy class a newer than 2015 apartments.
And our basic strategy is we look formismanaged or undermanaged assets.
Outta state Fund owns it.
Private equity group owns it.
(26:23):
They're outta state and we targetmediocre third party managers
that aren't necessarily doing a,a terrible job, but they're not
optimizing it like owner would.
Yeah, definitely.
Well, thank you for sharing that.
It's really important for me to know whensomething clicks, I know where to go.
So this is great.
(26:43):
Thank you so much for sharing.
And you also mentioned, and I love this.
It's so important.
But you mentioned the importance ofmentorship, can you share how your
experience with having a mentor hadreally huge impact on your career?
Absolutely.
(27:04):
Gosh, we could do a whole two hour podcaston mentorship, peer groups and coaching.
I would say those have been three of, ofmy greatest sources of personal growth.
Very lucky or fortunate early onto have a great real estate mentor.
Still take 'em out to lunchor get him on the phone.
Any chance I get and that, thatdrives me to pay it forward when when
(27:28):
young up and comers reach out to me.
And then I think even more so than thatfrom sort of a, a day to day or, or normal
routine cadence would be being in, in peergroups trying to find ones that have some
like-minded people, but also some folksthat are a little higher up the mountain.
And also typically those networks likeI'm in YPO and Tiger 21, give me amazing
(27:53):
access to wisdom via other CEOs thatI can now get on the phone that are,
that are way up, that mountaintop, thatare willing to talk to me because of
where I'm at in the networks I'm in.
And then of course the, the finalicing on the cake would be in any area
of my life where I want improvement.
I've got a coach, so got atrainer that comes to the house.
(28:16):
It kicks my butt five days a week.
Awesome.
my wife and my wife and I are, youknow, proud to say we, we, we get a
third party in the room anytime we'rea little off the rails, you know
'cause it's a, a big busy life we lead.
So having some some marriagecoaching, we've got a parent, a parent
Very
come alongside us.
(28:36):
'cause we got three world changing crazykids that are that are, that are, you
know, gonna be great humans one day.
But it can be tough to raise.
And personal coaching as well in,in business and, and all those
other categories of spirit and faithand fun and course making money.
But I find if all these other things onmy report card in business and in life
(29:00):
are, are getting good grades, the money'sjust the byproduct rather than the focus.
Mm-hmm.
That's great.
Because the level of importance whereyou want to get somewhere, you know
what you need to do to get there.
It's very, you, you, the way you'respeaking about it is, is simplifying it.
(29:20):
For everybody because any area youwant to improve, you get someone that
has already been there and ask fortheir help, and you're doing that in
various areas of your personal andprofessional life, which is great.
Yeah, it's not, it's not rocket science.
Is it Shahid?
It's, it is.
Maybe not.
It's maybe not easy, and sometimespeople get hung up or find it difficult.
(29:45):
It's pretty simple at its core.
It's just not always easy to execute.
Mm.
But if you can, if you can just movethese little steps, you know, one, one
foot in front of the other, one dayat a time, they'll start compounding.
yeah.
No.
Wonderful.
So for our people in the audience,if you're on the audio or if you're
(30:05):
on video or if your audio, just hopover to video and leave us a comment,
you know, and share with us if amentor has impacted your life in any
way, and what lessons you learned.
From it.
We would love to hear from you.
Been such a wonderfulconversation and especially.
(30:25):
Grateful for the opportunity to be inyour presence to, read that energy and
what you're doing with your life andothers because you're creating a platform
can impact people that are out there.
Looking for this kind of help, youknow, because it's really, really noisy.
(30:46):
There's a lot of opportunities, especially with ai.
Everybody is on that race trying tofind out what's that product that we
can launch and ai, and real estateis such a thing that doesn't matter
what phase the world goes through.
You can always come back to realestate because it's part of the earth.
It's, it's is.
Yeah,
with, you're doing business on somethingthat's on the earth, that's so special.
(31:12):
well, I like rooftops.
No matter what happens,people need a place to live.
Yeah.
that was great, Ivan.
Appreciate your time.
Thank you so much.
And audience, thank youfor joining us today.
Honored to be here
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