TAC Talks Ep 20 – Amplifying Excellence in WA VET Through Award Winner Stories –Anthony Nelson-Burns

This is the third episode of the TAC Talk series on Amplifying Excellence in WA VET Through Award Winner Stories where we spotlight people making significant strides in vocational education and training (VET).

This episode features Anthony Nelson-Burns, a remarkable individual who triumphed as the WA Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Student of the Year and reached the finals of the National Training Awards in 2023. Anthony's journey is a testament to resilience. He overcame challenges and personal setbacks to achieve success in the engineering field and finishing his apprenticeship early.

Now, Anthony champions vocational training for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities, advocating for culturally sensitive approaches that reduce barriers and create a welcoming learning environment for all.

This episode may serve as a valuable resource for RTOs seeking further information on learning environments which promote and support the diversity of learners.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to TAC Talks Shorts. My name is Mel Hartley from the Training Accreditation Council, or TAC.
And before we start, I wish to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the
land we are recording on, the Whadjuk people.
We wish to acknowledge and respect their continuing culture and the contribution
they make to the life of this city and this region.

(00:22):
Today, I'm thrilled to be in conversation with someone who's making waves in
the engineering world and inspiring others along the way. Welcome, Anthony Nelson-Burns.
Now, Anthony, you're not just any engineer. You're a winner of the WA Aboriginal
and Torres Strait Islander Student of the Year Award and a finalist for the
National Award. Congratulations.

(00:44):
So let's rewind a little bit. Before this incredible journey,
what was life like for you and what sparked your interest in engineering?
So I've been with Fortescue
for what have been about four years and
then they offered a apprenticeship program like they
call it trade-up so I applied for it and then

(01:07):
I didn't get I didn't even get an interview or
an email so one of my bosses sent an
email off and said how come we
didn't get looked into and then I got a phone call the next day that I didn't
fill it out properly so they offered me an interview and then yeah I'm just

(01:28):
kept going forward and I was pretty much like the highest student out of all
the applicants for the aptitude test.
Yeah it was quite a funny story to get my apprenticeship and then but to finish
it earlier and a lot of hurdles along the way but can't believe it.
No that's amazing and so were you thinking about doing an apprenticeship before they approached you?

(01:52):
Yeah, I did one before, but I did three years of it. I didn't quite finish it.
So that took me another 12 years to get another one.
Hey, better late than never, hey? Always tell my kids, never give up.
Yeah, that's really inspiring. And what were your initial hopes and your worries

(02:13):
when you embarked on your apprenticeship journey?
I wanted to have a trade, so I just kept pushing and just trying to show myself
at work and I was looking at doing studies while I was working,
but then just knew the right people in the business to talk to and go in the right direction.
To help you through the apprenticeship? Yeah, I had the right support behind

(02:34):
me and a lot of people, they just helped me out.
They knew that I was pretty smart with what I do because I'm always been in
mining and the processes of breaking down the rocks and that.
So they knew that I was pretty cluey onto that.
So I just kept pushing and pushing and then eventually, yeah, got my apprenticeship.

(02:54):
It was pretty much the worst stage of life because it was COVID.
It was a bit of a challenge because they changed our roster on us from 14 days,
seven days off to 26 days on, 14 off.
My goodness. So were you doing that apprenticeship online?
Did it change to online or was it still face-to-face?
So they pushed our TAFE back until we were allowed to have contact in the classroom.

(03:19):
So I think we were delayed by a year in our training.
Yeah, I just kept pushing. and plus like all the people in my class,
they never experienced like TAFE side of stuff as apprenticeship where I've
done a little bit and, yeah, I was pretty much helping them along the way of the journey.

(03:40):
Did you get much support from the TAFE at all through your apprenticeship,
particularly in that COVID phase?
Yeah, we had it because FMG or Fortescue got their own training and then they
had their own lecturers on site.
Like, we had an app we could just talk to, see what we needed to do,
and, yeah, they just relay it back to us so we could just correspond with what

(04:02):
they were saying and what we needed to do.
It's good that they did have some sort of support for you guys, particularly being...
You know, so far away and during COVID. It sounds like there was quite a lot
of ups and downs for you and a bit of challenges.
Is there anything specific that you faced during your apprenticeship that was

(04:22):
a bit of a challenge that you overcame?
With FMG, we've got, I think, five mine sites.
So I did a year each one. The first year, I was at Christmas Creek. That was really good.
So I wanted to ask for a change to a different site just to see what I'm going to be exposed to.
I went there, had a run-in with quite a few people there, but I stood up and

(04:47):
spoke, and they pretty much didn't want me to be in that work area,
so I said, I'm happy to do that.
I'll move along, and I went to another place.
That department had open arms, and that inspired me a little bit,
and I didn't want to leave, but I had to go on break. I had knee surgery booked
in, so I had six months off.

(05:09):
And then I went to another place called Eliwana.
Everyone was telling me they want me back and stuff like that.
Oh, that's so good because I imagine it would have been quite easy for you to
just go, I'm not going to go any further.
I can't take it anymore and just finish your apprenticeship.
So it's so good that you kept on going and decided to finish it.

(05:29):
Yeah, it was pretty hard. I think it was about 10 months while I was at Eliwana.
Then my son had a motorbike accident I
was at work and then he got put into
an induced coma for a week so I had three months off work just to be home with
the kids while the missus was at the hospital doing all that so he's come out

(05:51):
of that so he does have brain injuries but he's he's on the mend because he's so young.
I'm so sorry to hear that still despite it all you decided started to keep going
and push through to the end.
Did you get any support from the organisation that was doing your training during
when you had to take time off for your knee surgery and for your son?

(06:13):
Yeah, I had support there from work because I finished all my TAFE earlier,
finished a year before everyone else.
So in the class, you can either, they'll let you fast track.
And then people behind you, they would just go along on their pace.
So it was self-paced, which was good.
And, yeah, so I finished a little bit earlier than everyone else.
So I had that time where I could have that time off.

(06:35):
If I can just ask you a little bit more about the fast track,
was that something that you asked about or did they approach you and say,
hey, look, we think you're doing well,
Have you thought about going faster or finishing earlier?
I asked them. I know that I've got prior experience.
I said, was it possible for me to go ahead on my own pace instead of sitting

(07:00):
around waiting for everyone else?
And I know it's good to help everyone, but at the same time,
if I'm going way too fast for everyone else, I should just get done quicker.
And you didn't have any problems with going faster? They supported you through that?
Yeah, no, they supported me all the way through. Even the superintendent of

(07:20):
the training, he was happy, the supervisor and the lecturers,
so they were so keen for me to do it.
They knew that I would finish the way before.
It was good because it meant a lot to me because I had a lot of things in the
background outside of my work, which I just can't believe I still finished with

(07:42):
all them challenges behind me.
Oh it says a lot about your character that
you persevered and you not only finished you
finished to such a high standard. I just want to
ask a little bit about community so I understand you're a strong advocate for
vocational education particularly with First Nations people what advice would

(08:05):
you give to training organisations on making sure that they have a culturally safe
and inclusive environment for everybody?
Just have a yarn with people because if you don't get to know them properly,
then you don't know what their learning backgrounds because everyone learns differently.
And I think that's the most important thing at the moment is learning backgrounds.

(08:27):
Because I come across a few apprentices coming up to me now telling me they're having struggles.
And I said, you know, you can get extra help now because you're at the TAFE.
So I've got them to do it because they wanted to quit. And I said,
don't quit. I said, you're halfway.
So why would you stop now? So there is a lot of support there to help you. So just ask for it.

(08:47):
That's really good. You're obviously inspiring a lot of other people to go ahead
and do apprenticeships as well.
Well, just following on from the last question, what are the biggest,
in your opinion, biggest systemic barriers preventing First Nations people from
pursuing and completing these training programs?
Like what could RTOs do to help them?

(09:10):
I think a lot of for us Blackfellas and stuff like that is talking, like speaking up.
We don't, you know, we get shy, and then you know if you've got someone
in the class that will talk up then you'll get confidence to talk up it's just
yeah it's just get to know them first and you know once they get comfortable
with you then they will start talking and be more open yeah that's what I

(09:34):
found with my my group but I
was a more vocal person and then
everyone just followed along long. Okay so it's
about having that personal relationship with the lecturers
and the students so that everyone feels comfortable enough to
go through the program? Yeah so I reckon at the start of it they should just
sit down not like not get straight into it just just sit down and have a yarn

(09:57):
and you know just get to know their backgrounds and where they come from and
what their goals are and stuff like that because then they'll start getting
more comfortable and then they'll talk and
have a joke and that, and that's, you know, you get that connection.
It's such invaluable advice.
And looking ahead, what's the next move for you? Are you doing more training?

(10:19):
Are you doing different challenges?
What's happening? More awards? What are you going to do?
Well, I got an email the other day through the company that it's a nine-month program to be a leader.
So you can become, do all this training and that, and you can become a leader.
So you can be a supervisor after this training and all that.
But also I want to do my Cert IV in engineering later on.

(10:42):
So, yeah, I just want to do my time on the ground first and then once I get
my Cert IV, I'm looking to sit in an office.
Well, sky's the limit really. It sounds like you've got everything lined up for your future.
Yeah, and like me, I've got a disability as well.
So I did lose my eye. So it just shows that there's no boundaries anymore.

(11:06):
Where there was back in the day, now there is no boundaries.
No matter what it is, but you can do it.
Yeah, we can all get to the goal because we are all on different paths.
It might not look exactly the same as the next person, but we can all still get there.
And I just want to say that, Anthony, your story is truly inspiring.
And you've not only excelled in your field, you have actively made a difference

(11:29):
in the lives of others, as you were talking about with these younger apprentices
that you were influencing.
So I just want to say thank you so much for sharing your journey with us today. Thank you.
You have been listening to TAC Talks with your host, Mel Hartley,
and award winner, Anthony Nelson-Burns.

(11:49):
Music.