8mm (1999)

8mm - 3.5 / 4 Stars

Why I love this movie

I remember watching it on rental, not sure why I missed it in the theaters, and I watched just about every movie that came out in the 90s. And I still remember this movie even though I had only seen it once before we decided to do a pod on this movie.

I love the supporting cast - a young Joaquin Phoenix, the late and always great James Gandolfini, and probably one of the best villainous/creepy actor Peter Stormare.

Episode Transcript

[raj] (00:00):
All right, eight millimeters.

[Shishir] (00:03):
I don't

[raj] (00:03):
Is that

[Shishir] (00:03):
think

[raj] (00:03):
how you

[Shishir] (00:03):
so.

[raj] (00:03):
would say it? Like full name? Not,

[Shishir] (00:05):
Exactly.

[raj] (00:06):
you wouldn't

[Shishir] (00:06):
Yeah.

[raj] (00:06):
say

[Shishir] (00:06):
Right.

[raj] (00:06):
it eight mm? Probably not.
So this movie came out in 1999. And so I actually remember watching this movie on
rental. And I'm not

[Shishir] (00:17):
So.

[raj] (00:17):
sure why I missed it in the theaters. I, in the 90s, I watched just about every movie
that came out. Like actually every major movie that came out. And then if it was any

[Shishir] (00:29):
Yes.

[raj] (00:29):
like I also watched those and But somehow I missed this in the theater. So I saw this
on rental and I love this movie and

[Shishir] (00:34):
Yeah.

[raj] (00:34):
I still remember this movie Even though I've only seen it once when it came out and
when we decided to do it for the pod I was actually really excited And back when
I was younger and I still do so now but when I was younger I used to like I used to
love dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark
and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and
dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark
and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and
dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark

(00:56):
and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and
dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and dark and movies and

[Shishir] (01:02):
Yeah.

[raj] (01:03):
I love movies about criminals and this

[Shishir] (01:05):
Yeah.

[raj] (01:05):
movie is as dark as you can get for being like a studio

[Shishir] (01:09):
No.

[raj] (01:09):
movie with like a big star like Nicholas Cage

[Shishir] (01:13):
Thank you. Thank you.

[raj] (01:14):
and it kind of reminds me of like another movie that I liked a lot when it came out to
you remember ransom Ron Howard's ransom with Mel Gibson

[Shishir] (01:22):
Yes,

[raj] (01:23):
and Renee

[Shishir] (01:23):
not

[raj] (01:23):
Rousseau

[Shishir] (01:23):
the absolute, yes, yes.

[raj] (01:25):
another studio movie and I don't think they actually like any violence or torture,
but it was lurking. And

[Shishir] (01:36):
Yeah.

[raj] (01:37):
another kind of dark movie, and I like that movie. So it's not exactly a movie that
cheers you up or you bring your family to, but I just love these

[Shishir] (01:45):
Thank you.

[raj] (01:45):
movies.
And so that's why I was excited when you brought it up. So is there

[Shishir] (01:51):
Thank

[raj] (01:51):
a reason

[Shishir] (01:52):
you.

[raj] (01:52):
why you, because I remember you brought this up many months ago, and then we just met
at a party just recently, this movie.

[Shishir] (02:02):
Yeah, yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's, yeah, it was one of those things where
I remember this was, um, yeah, 1999. And the reason I, the reason I didn't see it
in theater myself was I think, um, I was like, I think I was just starting out
college. And, uh, you know, it's, it's, uh, I don't think it got that much, um,

(02:26):
much promotion of marketing, uh, in terms of advertisements on
pretty large star in terms of Nicholas Cage.

[raj] (02:37):
Just to have you know, it came out in February.

[Shishir] (02:41):
Yeah.

[raj] (02:41):
I actually think February, it's kind of a dead time for movies. ["The Star-Spangled
Banner"]

[Shishir] (02:47):
Gotcha. Yeah, I think it's not like one of those,

[raj] (02:49):
You got the

[Shishir] (02:49):
yeah

[raj] (02:49):
Super Bowl coming out.

[Shishir] (02:51):
right

[raj] (02:52):
Yeah. You know, like all, a lot of the award movies or the big movies came out on
Christmas or Thanksgiving.

[Shishir] (02:58):
Correct. That's good.

[raj] (03:00):
And

[Shishir] (03:00):
Yeah.

[raj] (03:00):
then the action movies come out in the summer. I think

[Shishir] (03:03):
Thank you.

[raj] (03:03):
like
a movie like this, this thriller,

[Shishir] (03:08):
Yeah.

[raj] (03:08):
but it did do so though, bad. Like I don't want to take the mic away from you. But
it made close to a hundred million if you include it's international. But I think

[Shishir] (03:19):
Yeah.

[raj] (03:19):
You know, back then this was before streaming, and I'm almost positive.

[Shishir] (03:22):
Yes.

[raj] (03:22):
Like, dark movies like this did well on rentals. ..

[Shishir] (03:25):
Yes, yes, definitely. That's the other thing. I mean, back then, I think we,

[raj] (03:29):
Rentals

[Shishir] (03:29):
I think

[raj] (03:29):
were

[Shishir] (03:29):
there

[raj] (03:29):
huge.

[Shishir] (03:29):
was still exactly you had blockbuster. I think it was still pretty popular. I mean,
like it was pretty much at the, at sing at the peak around that time

[raj] (03:40):
And not only that, I wouldn't discount movies bought at Target

[Shishir] (03:40):
where

[raj] (03:45):
and Best Buy, so also buy movies. So, yeah, I think that's it. I'm gonna go ahead and get some more of these.

[Shishir] (03:48):
Yes, exactly. You could just purchase it directly. You know, it's one of those things.
So like, I guess the reason why I brought it up to you, and I saw you last time
was like, you know, a lot of, there's been a lot of like publicity coming out on
Netflix and some other streaming channels where they talk about these docu,

(04:10):
docu series on like some, I think there's like a Jeffrey Dahmer one that came
out. And I got a lot of publicity a lot of notoriety because people are complaining
about like how is glorifying some of these really terrible people and awful events
that happen. And I thought back to when topics like this were talked about in

(04:35):
terms of movies, and I remember 8mm, it's weird because I also saw it not in theater,
I saw it on rental. first time I saw it I was like pretty blown away because
the topic the subject matter so it's it's a very dark tone like tonally it's dark

(04:56):
but the way that is presented in this movie is not like hopeless or bleak like
it is an awful horrible thing but but the way they go about kind of shedding
light on that subject and then

[raj] (05:11):
It's also

[Shishir] (05:11):
how

[raj] (05:11):
a murder mystery. So,

[Shishir] (05:13):
exactly

[raj] (05:13):
you know,

[Shishir] (05:14):
yeah

[raj] (05:15):
you want to actually find out.

[Shishir] (05:17):
Exactly. You want to find out? And at some level, you know, there's some kind
of justice, right? That's brought

[raj] (05:24):
Yes,

[Shishir] (05:24):
to the...

[raj] (05:25):
yes, I'm gonna, when we get a little bit further on the pot, I do wanna talk about
the justice part. Ha ha ha ha. I'm gonna go ahead and get the back to the

[Shishir] (05:32):
Yeah, yeah. But it's, so I was just thinking about it. I was thinking about all
the stuff that's come out, you know, talked about in current times for pretty, pretty
awful things that have been going on in society. And I just feel, and then also
not even just like documentaries, but this is one thing I've noticed the trend

(05:52):
like a lot of shows, for example, Ozark on Netflix. It's a show about money laundering,
but it's a very dark, really great dark show. There's you like you know when I
first watched that show this is a little bit off track but kind of relates to
why I like eight millimeters so much. But Ozark is to me like a prime example of

(06:13):
like I guess what the audience really craze but I feel like it's not a good thing
to always cater to that because it's it's
light at the end of the two. Right?

[raj] (06:34):
are the good guys, really now good guys now.

[Shishir] (06:39):
Exactly.

[raj] (06:39):
And just because they don't show them maybe doing the murders, but they

[Shishir] (06:45):
Yeah.

[raj] (06:46):
okayed it, you know? And

[Shishir] (06:47):
Exactly.

[raj] (06:47):
so like they keep kind of closing that gap. I feel like the showrunners and the writers
kind

[Shishir] (06:53):
So,

[raj] (06:53):
of do that on purpose.

[Shishir] (06:55):
they do it on purpose

[raj] (06:56):
And

[Shishir] (06:56):
too.

[raj] (06:56):
don't give away the ending of Ozark. I haven't seen the second half yet, but

[Shishir] (07:02):
Okay, gotcha. Okay,

[raj] (07:02):
you

[Shishir] (07:02):
okay.

[raj] (07:02):
know, it is, you know, like let's talk about like like Breaking Bad, which is probably
a show.

[Shishir] (07:06):
Yeah, yeah,

[raj] (07:07):
Have you seen? You

[Shishir] (07:09):
I've

[raj] (07:09):
know,

[Shishir] (07:09):
seen breaking

[raj] (07:09):
and

[Shishir] (07:09):
back.

[raj] (07:09):
it's one of those things where... If you're the show runner, if you have a conscious,
and when I was younger,

[Shishir] (07:17):
Yeah.

[raj] (07:17):
I did not have a

[Shishir] (07:18):
Yeah.

[raj] (07:18):
conscious. I wanted the villain or the pseudo villain to get away with it. But I feel

[Shishir] (07:23):
Exactly.

[raj] (07:23):
like you gotta end the show with some justice. You can't let them

[Shishir] (07:27):
Yes.

[raj] (07:27):
get away with it. But I know what you mean though. First three or four seasons. Walter

[Shishir] (07:34):
So

[raj] (07:34):
White

[Shishir] (07:34):
you

[raj] (07:34):
is like Tom Cruise, you know? I mean,

[Shishir] (07:37):
It's

[raj] (07:37):
he's like the hero. Ha ha ha ha ha.

[Shishir] (07:38):
right. Right. Right. Well, so what I looked about that character breaking that
is they actually show a reason why he's doing what he's doing. And then they show
that, you know, this initial kind of development is that he wants to do it for
a certain limit, like certain time limits, certain amount. And that's just to
like help his family out, right? But then it just like goes way beyond that.

(08:03):
And I mean, like, it's, it's, it was kind of fun. first, but then I was like,
okay, I'm like, it's kind of getting a little bit, in my mind, I was like, he's,
he's like becoming like, you know, invincible. And he's just doing whatever he
wants to do. And so he slowly transitioned from the hero or anti hero to villain. Basically,

(08:25):
I mean, like, it just, you know, as an, kind of an experimental way, I liked
that they did that, also in that particular series. But, but I think what happened
is, People saw that, oh, that was such a popular, like such a huge groundbreaking
series. And then like kind of further adding on to like these other prime type of

(08:49):
shows like The Sopranos and The Wires

[raj] (08:51):
I'm so

[Shishir] (08:51):
and stuff like

[raj] (08:52):
glad

[Shishir] (08:52):
that.

[raj] (08:52):
you brought the Sopranos. This is not something that I came up with. I heard this
from someone else, and

[Shishir] (09:00):
Thank

[raj] (09:00):
I

[Shishir] (09:00):
you.

[raj] (09:00):
forget who said this, but he even went back as far as the godfather, kind

[Shishir] (09:05):
Thank you.

[raj] (09:05):
of like romanticizing criminals,

[Shishir] (09:09):
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

[raj] (09:10):
and the dark underworld. And

[Shishir] (09:14):
Yeah, yeah.

[raj] (09:14):
just kind of segwaying back to this movie, This goes back to the dark underworld, but
it shows

[Shishir] (09:22):
Yeah.

[raj] (09:22):
the darkness of like how sick it is. And these

[Shishir] (09:24):
Exactly.

[raj] (09:25):
villains, you couldn't even romanticize these villains even if you wanted to.

[Shishir] (09:31):
Yes, yes, exactly. And the thing is, the amount that they show for an R-rated
movie was just enough that you got the understanding of it. You got the full understanding
of how bad that situation is, like how bad that whole area is, that part of the

(09:52):
world,

[raj] (09:53):
And

[Shishir] (09:53):
CD part

[raj] (09:53):
I

[Shishir] (09:53):
of the

[raj] (09:53):
also

[Shishir] (09:53):
world.

[raj] (09:53):
don't think we should underestimate that in 1999, this type of movie was a lot. I feel
like,

[Shishir] (10:01):
Thanks.

[raj] (10:01):
you know, you were talking about Netflix, I feel like in some of these docuseries and
just these other movies that have been on and TV

[Shishir] (10:08):
Yeah.

[raj] (10:08):
shows that, I feel like the audience has seen this darkness, or been more exposed
to it more,

[Shishir] (10:15):
Yeah, yeah,

[raj] (10:15):
back then,

[Shishir] (10:16):
exactly.

[raj] (10:16):
back through movies and TV, back then, then 1999.

[Shishir] (10:21):
Yeah, exactly. You know, one series that I thought did a good job also hinting
at and like, I think probably took hints or probably took clues or like, you know,
tips from from movie like eight millimeter was true detective season one. And because
they had like a lot of dark sinister type of tones of things going on, but they

(10:45):
never really showed it. They implied it. And then you you knew. Okay, there's like
a a pretty awful underground type of thing, a society that does those things
that, you know, you get the full picture of it, right?

[raj] (11:00):
Где?

[Shishir] (11:00):
But this is like eight millimeter, I, you know, this is also before the internet
really.

[raj] (11:07):
Yep.

[Shishir] (11:07):
So like the amount that you could really research until like this at the time
was was very hard for just an average consumer. So when I when I first saw
I first I was like, no, this can't be real. This must be like, like there must
be a tiny thread that's true. And then, you know, and then I try and remember

(11:30):
when I first saw it, it's a very cerebral movie, right? You start thinking about
things, you're like, how prevalent is this? Where does this kind of terrible,
where does this terrible like type of filming happen? Does it exist? And like,
is it, how do they combat it? Like, is there like people that fight this type of
crime?

[raj] (11:49):
And I don't know if you noticed in like one scene, they even show who the consumers
are. So when

[Shishir] (11:56):
Thank you.

[raj] (11:58):
Tom Wells, Nicholas Cage, and Max California, Joaquin Phoenix's

[Shishir] (12:03):
Yeah.

[raj] (12:03):
character, goes to this like underground market, I don't

[Shishir] (12:08):
Yeah.

[raj] (12:08):
know if you noticed, but if you notice not the people that are selling, they look
like scum bags. And that was not on purpose.

[Shishir] (12:14):
Yes.

[raj] (12:15):
But

[Shishir] (12:15):
Yes.

[raj] (12:15):
there was like

[Shishir] (12:15):
Yes.

[raj] (12:15):
a guy like in a jacket that a normal person would wear. that

[Shishir] (12:20):
So, yeah.

[raj] (12:20):
works at the office that you might be working at, you know? And there he

[Shishir] (12:26):
Yep,

[raj] (12:26):
is,

[Shishir] (12:26):
yep.

[raj] (12:26):
just like browsing through the videos.

[Shishir] (12:28):
Exactly, yeah. No, it's...

[raj] (12:31):
And you know what? I should also mention, and I think the audience knows, I know this
is before the internet. I'm glad you mentioned the internet because early days,
and this is also before broadband, so it was slow. It was slow.

[Shishir] (12:46):
Yes, yes.

[raj] (12:47):
And they didn't have a very good job on how to, you know, play videos and stuff.
So, you

[Shishir] (12:55):
Yeah.

[raj] (12:55):
know, you would go to shops.

[Shishir] (12:57):
Yes, exactly.

[raj] (12:58):
And these shops were legal. They existed. But

[Shishir] (13:01):
Exactly.

[raj] (13:01):
like the market that they showed, that was a different market.

[Shishir] (13:07):
Yes, it's not something that like any, I would think the average consumer would
not really know about unless they seek it out, right? It's a very small group
of people, well not small, but it is definitely like a very subselect group of
people.

[raj] (13:23):
And there's like this trust it feels like

[Shishir] (13:25):
Yes,

[raj] (13:26):
between

[Shishir] (13:26):
yeah, yeah.

[raj] (13:28):
the vendors and the customers, they're not friends, but the cops are not being involved.
And we're both

[Shishir] (13:31):
Exactly.

[raj] (13:31):
here for a reason. And we're both here for a reason.

[Shishir] (13:33):
Yes.

[raj] (13:33):
And we're both here for a reason. And we're both

[Shishir] (13:34):
Yes.

[raj] (13:34):
here for a reason. And we're both here for a reason. And we're both

[Shishir] (13:35):
Exactly.

[raj] (13:35):
here for a reason. And we're

[Shishir] (13:36):
Exactly.

[raj] (13:36):
both here for a reason.

[Shishir] (13:38):
Yeah. Yep. And it's a transactional thing. They know that like it's like a, you
know, the whole Silk Road with the

[raj] (13:47):
Yes,

[Shishir] (13:48):
dark underworld.

[raj] (13:48):
yes.

[Shishir] (13:49):
Yeah, kind of analogous to that back, but in real life, like before, without digital
transactions being made for legal

[raj] (13:57):
Yep.

[Shishir] (13:57):
types of goods. So this is this is exactly like, what people would do. And I just
it triggered so many things in me because I always like, you know, I always like
stuff about private detectives. Like always like my whole like,

[raj] (14:12):
Me too.

[Shishir] (14:14):
yeah, it's like my dream job is being a private detective and being able to like
help in some capacity with various like on a case by case basis like helping find
missing people and stuff like that's always been like a dream thing. But it's very,
very hard to do that. Like, you know, so it's, that kind of work right or even like

(14:34):
you know semi-fictional like type of movies that have that you know protagonist
as a character that does that because it's just it's like very fascinating right
so yeah this this one this one really like hit a lot of buttons on that on that front
but the way they presented this this particular subject matter with the snuff films

(14:55):
I I was shocked I didn't know that right and then actually yeah this kind of related
to another movie that came out many years later called Hostel with Eli Roth right
so he and they asked I remember there's an interview but with him about about like

(15:16):
you know where he's you know part of that movie Hostel is where they're filming
captured people and torturing them for money essentially rich people are paying
for that with this idea where, you know, did you just kind of make it up out of
thin air? And he said he actually read some stories about this happening, this

(15:40):
kind of incident happening in Thailand, I think, and he said that they tried to research
this and found that there's some truth to a lot of these kinds of incidents
where poor people off the streets would get basically taken and

(16:03):
And a lot of the times I think it was like If I remember correctly, they would
like pay the poor people like their family a certain amount of money Something
like that. It was very sickening to hear and I was I mean it just like goes
to show like But there's like this dark part of humanity probably a minority,

(16:23):
but Kind of rooting it out. It's so important like you won't know about this
stuff unless you kind of shed light on it, right? So But yeah, 8mm to me was very
novel in that sense, right? Presenting that type of terrible crime and really trying

(16:45):
to make it, I think, more noticeable for the mass audience. Because, you know, the
movie is like, a lot of movies nowadays try to have a shock value, and 8mm didn't do
that. They're really respectful in some ways of like not making it so graphic

(17:06):
per se, right?

[raj] (17:07):
And when they would

[Shishir] (17:08):
And

[raj] (17:08):
show

[Shishir] (17:08):
really...

[raj] (17:09):
the eight millimeter film of

[Shishir] (17:13):
Yeah.

[raj] (17:13):
Mary Ann Matthews, the girl that Tom Wells was hired or the define like is this
true or not, they would just show clips and then cut to Nicholas Cage or cut to something
else. And then they would show clips and then cut to Nicholas Cage

[Shishir] (17:29):
Yeah, yep.

[raj] (17:31):
So we would,

[Shishir] (17:31):
Exactly.

[raj] (17:32):
we know what was happening, but we won't see the brutal parts of it.

[Shishir] (17:38):
Exactly.

[raj] (17:38):
And not enough in a coherent one scene. And I think that was well done.

[Shishir] (17:46):
Yeah, yeah,

[raj] (17:47):
Cause

[Shishir] (17:47):
exactly. It

[raj] (17:47):
I don't

[Shishir] (17:48):
was

[raj] (17:48):
think anybody

[Shishir] (17:48):
great.

[raj] (17:48):
wants to see it.

[Shishir] (17:50):
I, yeah, it just, I mean, like, it's, it's kind of, I think a kin to, or analogous
to, what was it, like, yeah, a couple, like, after 9-11, yeah, when Iraq got essentially
taken down, people were posting like YouTube videos of like Saddam Hussein's execution.

(18:12):
I remember that got out, leaked out, and, and then there's like, all these other
like, like ridiculous, like, executions that were being posted that people mentioning.
I never saw any of that stuff.

[raj] (18:22):
Yep.

[Shishir] (18:23):
But I remember some of my colleagues that worked with sometimes they would see it
and I was like, how can you like see that? Like you can't like unsee it once
you see it. It's pretty like traumatic in a way, right?

[raj] (18:34):
Yep.

[Shishir] (18:35):
And I yeah, so I'm glad that that like you can make the same impact without showing,
you know, such a graphic graph thing. And I think that's, you know, that at least
also treats the audience like they're intelligent people versus like, oh, they have
to be spelled out every single thing and, you know, to understand which is not not

(18:59):
the case. So I, yeah, I mean, I, I, I love that movie. I love this movie a lot.
I'm actually shocked that the IMDB rating was like, I think six or something like
that, six and a half out of 10.

[raj] (19:13):
I think that some, just the subject matter could probably just turn a lot of people off.

[Shishir] (19:20):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's totally understandable, but it's I feel like maybe
if you don't like the subject matter, at least that my opinion shouldn't affect the
rating. Like

[raj] (19:35):
It's art,

[Shishir] (19:35):
if it's

[raj] (19:35):
if

[Shishir] (19:35):
something

[raj] (19:35):
it's

[Shishir] (19:36):
that you

[raj] (19:36):
art,

[Shishir] (19:36):
Yeah, it's

[raj] (19:36):
it's art.

[Shishir] (19:37):
yeah.

[raj] (19:37):
Yeah, I agree. I agree. I agree.

[Shishir] (19:39):
And it's in a way I feel like it's it was a movie that was contributed more good
than like, um, than bad because I'm like, my mind, if it's if it's something that
raises awareness and then it makes people want to, you know, be in the mode of
like trying to fight this kind of crime and like be more, more active in stopping

(20:02):
stuff like this from happening, right? I think that, that to me is like a great, great
outcome

[raj] (20:08):
I agree.

[Shishir] (20:09):
for...

[raj] (20:09):
And you know what? It did... I think we kind of mentioned it, but it didn't glamorize
the villains here. It really showed

[Shishir] (20:15):
Yeah.

[raj] (20:15):
them as sick as you can be.

[Shishir] (20:18):
Yeah. Yes, that's the other thing. So you have the villains who are like the actual
like people like that criminal ring that make these kind of movies. And then the
other thing I like was that you have kind of in between intermediary was played
by walking Phoenix.

[raj] (20:32):
Yep.

[Shishir] (20:34):
The California guy was the video rental store store person. But he's, you know,
for all intents and purposes, like he's a little bit of a like a quirky character.
And I mean he's just a phenomenal actor, but he plays that role like I you actually

(20:54):
kind of like him in a way Like he's not a bad guy, right?

[raj] (20:58):
No,

[Shishir] (20:58):
Just

[raj] (20:58):
I actually forgot that he was in the movie and

[Shishir] (21:03):
Yes.

[raj] (21:03):
it's a young Joaquin Phoenix. And even though his character has got tattoos and he's
got like spiked

[Shishir] (21:10):
Yeah.

[raj] (21:11):
hair and he's cashier at a porno store or you know, at a video store, this was like
a normal role for him.

[Shishir] (21:21):
Exactly.

[raj] (21:22):
And I kind of miss, I kind of miss, I'm not sure if Joaquin Phoenix will ever, kind
of reminds me of Johnny Depp it in Donnie Barasco. Like I don't

[Shishir] (21:32):
Yeah.

[raj] (21:32):
know if Joaquin Phoenix will ever play a straight man. But yeah, he kind of plays

[Shishir] (21:36):
Thank you. Thank you.

[raj] (21:37):
like the straight man and the comic kind of character. And he does a great job.

[Shishir] (21:45):
Thanks for watching. Bye.

[raj] (21:48):
And it was just weird seeing him roll that he plays. But like he said though, he's
pointing the likable guy. And Tom likes him. Nicholas Cage character likes him.

[Shishir] (21:57):
Yeah, they end up like it was it was I didn't expect them to team up like when
I was watching this for the first time because you know you have this single
detective Nicholas Cage's guy character who's like pretty much like you know doing
the doing the fact finding and searching for clues to figure out what happened you know
and and then then he starts like when he's you know meeting with different people

(22:21):
different characters and then meets with the video store. employee with Max California.
It was like, it just, it was such a, such a cool dynamic, right? And, and, you
know, you actually kind of, you start rooting for, for him to like, you know, do

(22:42):
well.

[raj] (22:43):
or even just

[Shishir] (22:43):
That

[raj] (22:43):
like, you

[Shishir] (22:43):
was,

[raj] (22:43):
know, when

[Shishir] (22:43):
that

[raj] (22:43):
I'm watching

[Shishir] (22:43):
was.

[raj] (22:44):
the movie, it's just like, oh, you kind of like, I want him to be in more scenes or
in all the scenes when Tom's there, I want Max there. And so, I'm going to be back.
I'm going to be back. I'm going to be back. I'm going to be back. I'm going to be
back. I'm going to be back. I'm going to be back. I'm going to be back. I'm going
to be back. I'm going to be back. I'm going to be back. I'm going to be back. I'm

[Shishir] (22:53):
Exactly.

[raj] (22:53):
going to be back. I'm going to be back. I'm going to be back. I'm going to be back.

[Shishir] (22:56):
Yep, yep, exactly. And yeah, it was a, I considered, it was for me, I remember
that role really well, like walking Phoenix's role, because I liked him as an actor
when I first saw him in that movie. So I always kind of kept an eye out to see
what other things he would show, because you never know, like sometimes, you
know, some of the actors that are like great character type oriented actors,

(23:19):
they'll maybe not get as many roles, or they won't break out for whatever reason.

[raj] (23:24):
Yep.

[Shishir] (23:25):
But I think he came from a pretty solid acting family.

[raj] (23:28):
Yep.

[Shishir] (23:30):
His brother was a really big deal for a while. But yeah, so I always like Joaquin
Phoenix, the stuff that he does. He puts on another level in terms of acting.
He actually very much reminds me of Daniel de Vues.

[raj] (23:47):
He reminds, I don't, you know, he's kind of like, kind of has that technician and kind
of like can escape into a role like Daniel Day-Lewis. But he's also

[Shishir] (24:01):
Go.

[raj] (24:02):
a little like Nicholas Cage where he has that eccentric city, eccentric,

[Shishir] (24:07):
Yeah.

[raj] (24:07):
you don't know what he's gonna do next

[Shishir] (24:10):
Yes,

[raj] (24:10):
type of

[Shishir] (24:11):
yes.

[raj] (24:12):
character. And you mentioned

[Shishir] (24:14):
Yeah.

[raj] (24:14):
the dynamic between, you know, walking Phoenix, and Nicholas Cage. I thought it was
great because you have like a walking Phoenix that I think he wants to be a private
eye, right? Or like he

[Shishir] (24:28):
Yes,

[raj] (24:28):
wants to do this stuff.

[Shishir] (24:31):
yeah. He has an element of goodness to him. Like he's not, like some people are
kind of like, you know, they don't care. Like they don't have like a, you know,
they might like feel bad, but they don't have like any kind of desire to do good,
per se, like, you know, extra effort to do kind of good, right? And that's what

(24:53):
I think, I really like when I see that kind of, you know, that. To me, it shows
that, okay, this is somebody that they're trying to do something. I think naturally,
you care about that character too, right? Which is, in a movie, like a two-hour

(25:14):
format, sometimes it's hard to do. You're invested in the character, the good
directors and writers pull it off, but you have to be very
good with the amount of room you're given with that limited time and kind of quickly
establish, the actor has to quickly establish the characters meaning to like an

(25:38):
audience that's watching, right? So Nicholas Cage, I feel like is a master at
this. I don't know how he's like done it across like almost all these different
movies. I've seen him in, I honestly like I've seen him in Disney movies like National
Treasure and I actually was like. movie it's like fun and he carries that then

(26:01):
I saw him in Lord of War and he carries that too and I'm like how's he how does he
do to all these different problems? An 8 millimeter I remember the you know the
first time one of the first scenes was when he's watching that snuff film video
and you see his reaction you actually like the way he does it you I at least for

(26:21):
me I felt the same way of watching him do it I actually started feeling like I

[raj] (26:25):
Yep.

[Shishir] (26:27):
wanted to puke and throw Not many actors can do that. That's why I think he's
just like people look up to him for decades now because he's just just that versatile

[raj] (26:37):
I'm glad you brought that up because... I think that maybe people our age look at Nick
Cage as a great actor, he's done a lot of great films. And what he's doing now, it's
still great acting. He's just, you know, doing.

(26:59):
off the beaten path movies, which is his choice

[Shishir] (27:02):
Yeah, so.

[raj] (27:02):
to do. But I do hear like online and some other podcasts that people think that
Nik Nikos Cage legit is not a good actor. And He did an interview, I think it was an
NPR, and he talked about like, he's not a natural actor, he's like a performance artist.

(27:29):
And so,

[Shishir] (27:30):
Yeah, yeah, okay,

[raj] (27:31):
He

[Shishir] (27:31):
that

[raj] (27:31):
doesn't

[Shishir] (27:32):
changes.

[raj] (27:32):
really try to go for naturalized, he tries to go for something like more stylized.

[Shishir] (27:37):
Okay, interesting.

[raj] (27:39):
And like if you watch the movie Face Off, like,

[Shishir] (27:43):
Yes,

[raj] (27:43):
you know,

[Shishir] (27:44):
yes.

[raj] (27:45):
he is, he's insane in that movie.

[Shishir] (27:51):
Yes, yes, yes.

[raj] (27:51):
And I

[Shishir] (27:51):
It's

[raj] (27:52):
feel

[Shishir] (27:52):
a good thing.

[raj] (27:52):
like, like, he just, like if he was playing the drums with the band, he's on a different
beat, you know?

[Shishir] (28:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah,

[raj] (28:03):
And I think

[Shishir] (28:03):
exactly.

[raj] (28:03):
he does it on purpose. And that's

[Shishir] (28:05):
Yeah,

[raj] (28:05):
why I kind

[Shishir] (28:05):
yeah.

[raj] (28:06):
of enjoy watching, you know, movies. And

[Shishir] (28:10):
Yeah,

[raj] (28:11):
uh...

[Shishir] (28:11):
yeah. Snake Eye is also another one,

[raj] (28:13):
Sneak

[Shishir] (28:14):
right?

[raj] (28:14):
eyes is so underrated and

[Shishir] (28:16):
It is.

[raj] (28:17):
the opening, like where you see Nick Cage talking to Gary Sinise's character, and
then Gary Sinise has to leave for some reason, and Nick's Cage

[Shishir] (28:27):
Yeah.

[raj] (28:27):
knows that he's talking to himself, and all of a sudden he's like, I am the king and
he stands up. It's just like, there's not a lot of actors that do that, that kind
of had that persona or that.

[Shishir] (28:37):
Yes.

[raj] (28:37):
And then, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like,

[Shishir] (28:39):
Yeah, yeah. I know. It's unique in my part. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

[raj] (28:44):
It

[Shishir] (28:44):
Okay.

[raj] (28:44):
is

[Shishir] (28:44):
Okay. Okay.

[raj] (28:44):
very

[Shishir] (28:44):
Okay. Okay. Okay.

[raj] (28:44):
unique.

[Shishir] (28:44):
Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

[raj] (28:45):
There's

[Shishir] (28:45):
Okay. Okay. Okay.

[raj] (28:45):
no

[Shishir] (28:45):
Okay. Okay.

[raj] (28:45):
one

[Shishir] (28:45):
Okay.

[raj] (28:46):
that

[Shishir] (28:46):
Okay. Okay.

[raj] (28:46):
does,

[Shishir] (28:46):
Okay. Okay.

[raj] (28:46):
I think, what he does. And if really,

[Shishir] (28:49):
He did it.

[raj] (28:50):
maybe what key Phoenix? That's probably the closest. It's probably

[Shishir] (28:53):
Yeah,

[raj] (28:53):
the

[Shishir] (28:53):
yeah,

[raj] (28:53):
closest.

[Shishir] (28:53):
yeah. Well, if you think about that movie alone, you have Nicholas Cage, who was
already pretty well-established and famous. You have Joaquin Phoenix, who was fairly
new and just like kind of starting out in a sense, like getting more exposure.
I think it's a good thing that he's not here. I think it's a good thing that he's
not here. I think it's a good thing that he's not here. I think it's a good thing
that he's not

[raj] (29:05):
It

[Shishir] (29:05):
here.

[raj] (29:05):
was

[Shishir] (29:05):
I think

[raj] (29:05):
before

[Shishir] (29:05):
it's a good thing

[raj] (29:06):
Gladiator.

[Shishir] (29:06):
that he's not here.

[raj] (29:07):
I think, you know, what's gladiator came on. It

[Shishir] (29:08):
Yeah.

[raj] (29:08):
was like,

[Shishir] (29:10):
Yes,

[raj] (29:10):
this

[Shishir] (29:11):
yes.

[raj] (29:11):
guy

[Shishir] (29:11):
Black

[raj] (29:11):
is

[Shishir] (29:11):
Haters.

[raj] (29:12):
stepped out of his brother's shadow.

[Shishir] (29:14):
Yes, like he has Major Versilli and actually James Gandolfini in that same movie
too, in 8mm. I remember James Gandolfini's character, right? And I was like, oh, this
is like a, this is a good actor, but like you don't really, you know, you, you,
you don't remember him as much, I think, until Sopranos. And then I was like,
oh my God,

[raj] (29:35):
Well?

[Shishir] (29:35):
like this guy can act. It might, you know.

[raj] (29:38):
I do remember him from True Romance.

[Shishir] (29:41):
Ah, okay, yes, yes, yes, yeah, that's true. That was a good role, yeah. It

[raj] (29:45):
And

[Shishir] (29:46):
was

[raj] (29:46):
so,

[Shishir] (29:46):
a great role.

[raj] (29:48):
and that was a movie that I watched like over and over again. So I like I was actually

[Shishir] (29:53):
Yeah.

[raj] (29:53):
like, oh, that guy, but you're right. Like and when I was watching his performance
in this movie, eight millimeter, there are some

[Shishir] (30:00):
Yeah.

[raj] (30:01):
like scenes in there are facial reactions. And I was just like, that's Tony Soprano.

[Shishir] (30:07):
Yes, yes, yes.

[raj] (30:08):
And you

[Shishir] (30:08):
Let's

[raj] (30:08):
know what?

[Shishir] (30:09):
let the go.

[raj] (30:09):
I don't know if Tony Soprano is any pool. I think that Tony Soprano had He was a killer.

[Shishir] (30:19):
Yeah.

[raj] (30:19):
But he had it strangely enough for being a killer. He had a higher moral compass than
Eddie Poole. I don't think Tony Soprano would ever go after little girls or little
boys

[Shishir] (30:30):
Yeah,

[raj] (30:31):
or teenage

[Shishir] (30:31):
yeah.

[raj] (30:31):
girls

[Shishir] (30:31):
Well,

[raj] (30:32):
or teenage boys. So. So.

[Shishir] (30:33):
if you think about it, yeah, I mean, people would, would used to, at least, you
know, I would hear a lot of complimentary talk about Michael Corleone from the Godfather,
right? And you see what he does in the Godfather part two, he essentially kills
a girl just to serve like, you know, to hold a kind of a ransom or, you know, control

(30:59):
a senator. But but you know and people

[raj] (31:03):
Wait,

[Shishir] (31:03):
you

[raj] (31:03):
wait,

[Shishir] (31:03):
know

[raj] (31:04):
Eddie kills his brother.

[Shishir] (31:06):
And that too yeah, yeah, I mean like yeah exactly like he's he's he's like compared
to compared to You know Vita Corleone in that sense like I thought

[raj] (31:17):
Fransford Coppola said that he did that on, well, I mean, I guess that was part of
the story,

[Shishir] (31:21):
Cool.

[raj] (31:21):
but he wanted a darker edge

[Shishir] (31:25):
Thank you. Thank you.

[raj] (31:25):
because he was like upset on how much people romanticized Godfather One.

[Shishir] (31:31):
That makes sense. Okay, that's good. I'm glad that he did that then because I I
hated Michael like you know in general I mean like meaning like I like I love the
movie

[raj] (31:41):
But I

[Shishir] (31:41):
but

[raj] (31:41):
hear

[Shishir] (31:41):
that

[raj] (31:41):
what

[Shishir] (31:41):
character

[raj] (31:41):
you mean though, the character, yeah.

[Shishir] (31:43):
Yeah,

[raj] (31:43):
Yeah. Yeah.

[Shishir] (31:43):
yeah, but Tony Tony actually Tony Sopranos character Initially started out as
like a like a bull like funny like kind of root for him But then this is what
I liked about David Chase is that over this years? He got really tired of the
people like just loving Tony Sopranos and losing sight of the fact that he's a criminal.

(32:04):
And so he started making him more and more unlikable towards the end of the series.
And he started doing some pretty dark stuff at the end of the last season. But
James Guilfini just took that, like, you know, just very gifted actor from the film.

[raj] (32:22):
very

[Shishir] (32:22):
Yeah.

[raj] (32:22):
special actor, died too early. And you know, if you look at his filmography, he was
a working actor. He did a lot of movies

[Shishir] (32:32):
Thank you. Thank you.

[raj] (32:33):
and obviously he was a sopranos. One of the greatest TV shows ever.

[Shishir] (32:40):
Thank you. Thank you.

[raj] (32:41):
Kind of like the show that people kind of like start point to start to that.

[Shishir] (32:46):
So.

[raj] (32:46):
And the wire is kind of like prestige TV.

[Shishir] (32:50):
Oh, a kind of funny factoid on the wire season two was one of the main characters
was machine from eight millimeter. That was a great character too by the way Frank
Sabatka. I love that character. Yeah.

[raj] (33:08):
Oh my gosh! Oh my gosh.

[Shishir] (33:09):
Yes. That was machine and eight millimeter. And I just remember when I first see him unmasked
at eight millimeter and I'm like, oh my God. normal looking guy but he's a really
good actor

[raj] (33:20):
He's

[Shishir] (33:20):
right?

[raj] (33:20):
a great actor and you

[Shishir] (33:22):
Yes,

[raj] (33:22):
know,

[Shishir] (33:22):
he is.

[raj] (33:23):
I think the director or the cast, that was done on purpose. Like, find

[Shishir] (33:28):
Yes.

[raj] (33:29):
me. the guy that you at least suspect.

[Shishir] (33:34):
Yeah.

[raj] (33:35):
But. But. After about 45 seconds of seeing it, you can see, okay, okay, I can see it.

[Shishir] (33:44):
Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Exactly. Yep.

[raj] (33:46):
And you know,

[Shishir] (33:46):
Yep.

[raj] (33:47):
you know, going back to them, you know, actually I want to get back to that part of
the movie and then we can get back to James Gantafini because I also want to talk
about him, but before I forget, you know. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm
sorry. When he has, in a very tense scene, when he goes to the film set where Tom Wells

(34:12):
and Cajun's character to meet the director, who's another great villain in this movie,

[Shishir] (34:19):
Yes, Peter Storbaird, right?

[raj] (34:20):
yeah,

[Shishir] (34:21):
Yeah.

[raj] (34:21):
and then James Caden DeFini's character, and the machine, that's a very tense scene,
because he gets

[Shishir] (34:28):
Yes.

[raj] (34:28):
set up right from the get-go.

[Shishir] (34:30):
Yeah.

[raj] (34:30):
And then Longdale, who's like the assistant or, you know, lawyer to the Christian family,
who

[Shishir] (34:39):
Thank you. Thank you.

[raj] (34:40):
the widow, the wife hired Tom Wells. So you

[Shishir] (34:46):
Thank

[raj] (34:46):
find

[Shishir] (34:46):
you.

[raj] (34:46):
out, okay, these are the villains, right? And

[Shishir] (34:49):
Yeah.

[raj] (34:49):
there's a scene when they want Tom Wells to go get that tape filmed so they can burn
it. The

[Shishir] (34:55):
Yeah.

[raj] (34:56):
only film existed. And Longdale gets the gun and takes him out there. And he goes,
why would Mr. Krish to do this?

[Shishir] (35:03):
Yeah, yeah.

[raj] (35:04):
And then we find out that it was even sicker than really it was. It wasn't that she,
they couldn't find, they found this smut film. They couldn't find a smut film. So they
decided to make a smut film

[Shishir] (35:18):
Yes.

[raj] (35:19):
and they decided, you know, instead of to act it, they really did kill the girl. She's
toy.

[Shishir] (35:23):
Yeah.

[raj] (35:24):
But when he asked why and he goes because he could.

[Shishir] (35:31):
Yes, yes.

[raj] (35:32):
And then when he. the machine

[Shishir] (35:37):
Yeah.

[raj] (35:37):
and he I think I don't know if he asked why but the machine goes I wasn't it I was
grown up well good family nothing wrong

[Shishir] (35:46):
Yep.

[raj] (35:46):
does

[Shishir] (35:46):
Yep.

[raj] (35:46):
he does he say anything else the reason why are you just or because I it's like it
was the same reason it's guys like

[Shishir] (35:51):
Vamos ser, vamos ser.

[raj] (35:51):
he could and that's frightening

[Shishir] (35:56):
It's very frightening, I know, right? I mean, like, that's what I loved about the
movie. It wasn't like these people that do evil things had like a, you know, just
assumed awful like upbringing or anything like that, right? And then you start,
like, that's what I think. I loved like a lot of movies around the 90s because

(36:20):
they make you think about things. You just like, you start like wondering, okay,
if this is how like maybe like one, two percent of society turns to like doing
really awful evil things. Like how do you, what can be done to further minimize
that and you know, have that not happen or at least protect people from getting,

(36:43):
because Sengoku's coming to such things. But yeah, I remember the machine's
character, he said something when he said it, because I was used to like evil
people, like evil characters having like, you know, something bad happen to them.
But this was like where Joel Schumacher like the way he showed this Shed shed you know

(37:03):
some kind of a light on these kind of people. I was like, oh my god I was like,
I didn't I didn't expect that it was like a it was a twist in some sense Very
different from from what you you normally don't see but it just it works so
well Like it wasn't surprising for say it was surprising but not like oh my gosh

(37:24):
like I can't believe that it was like Oh wow I can believe that, you know?

[raj] (37:30):
Yep.

[Shishir] (37:32):
And so, yeah, I remember that. And then to me, the, when at the beginning of the
movie, when they're, when they have the, the, you know, the Christian family, Mrs.
Christian, wanting to investigate and find out like what happened to this girl
and all this other stuff. I literally didn't think that the rich, like, you know,

(37:57):
Mr. Christian was the person that commissioned it. I was shocked at that. And
I was like, then you just start, I think it's like you start kind of, your brain
starts opening up to things and you're like, wow, these kind of, there are messed
up individuals that do this because they can or they're bored. And this is what

(38:21):
they turn to. So it was such a, just a, IQ or whatever the term is where you just
start thinking about about things in general I Love that about this movie.

[raj] (38:34):
Yeah.

[Shishir] (38:34):
It was It's it's like you like it was a it's like when I think they call it like
what water cooler movies or water cooler like type of topics where you just like
think about it And then you like can just randomly talk to someone and you just
like have like hour-long conversations It's like stuff that you know before You know
before for podcasts like you meet with like different friends and have to talk

(38:59):
with them about it.

[raj] (39:00):
Yeah, or you go watch a movie and then you'd have dinner.

[Shishir] (39:05):
Yeah.

[raj] (39:06):
Or if you had, you know, or after the movie, you would hang out and talk about the
movie.

[Shishir] (39:11):
Yeah,

[raj] (39:11):
And yeah.

[Shishir] (39:11):
yeah, I,

[raj] (39:12):
Yeah. Yeah.

[Shishir] (39:12):
exactly. I tried to do so much research on this topic when I was in college because,
but, but Google wasn't really good at the time. I don't think it even really existed
to the extent it does now. It was, I think it was Alta Vista was like the search
engine.

[raj] (39:27):
Yes.

[Shishir] (39:28):
Remember that?

[raj] (39:29):
I do remember

[Shishir] (39:30):
It

[raj] (39:30):
that.

[Shishir] (39:31):
was, yeah, it was, it was not a very good search engine.

[raj] (39:34):
D'oh.

[Shishir] (39:34):
And so, I mean, it was all dependent on how much public access was to, to like these,
these kinds of crimes and how people, like, whether solved it or what happened. So
I was really... You could tell that this specific production, they put a lot of

(39:54):
thought into real events, or like, you know, stuff that's happened in actual reality
and how to make a good story out of it.

[raj] (40:07):
Yeah, definitely, definitely. So yeah, I wanted to talk about, you know, actually,
you know, going back to James Gandolfini before

[Shishir] (40:13):
Thank you.

[raj] (40:13):
we
get back to the movie, I just want to wrap up, but, you know, I was looking at his
filmography and even during his long run with the Sopranos, he would make movies
and

[Shishir] (40:24):
Yeah.

[raj] (40:25):
mostly supporting roles. But what I

[Shishir] (40:27):
Yeah.

[raj] (40:27):
love about it is like, even if it was a role where he'd show up on screen for like
five minutes, he would hit it out of the park or he would just make you smile when
you would see him. And I think there's

[Shishir] (40:37):
Yeah.

[raj] (40:37):
something to be said about

[Shishir] (40:40):
Thank you. Thank you.

[raj] (40:41):
being on a TV show or maybe on a movie, like a franchise where everybody's seen it.
Or

[Shishir] (40:49):
Yeah.

[raj] (40:49):
if you haven't seen it, they know of it. And so what happens is when they see the
movie, it's like, oh, that's Tony Soprano.

[Shishir] (40:56):
Yes,

[raj] (40:56):
You know?

[Shishir] (40:57):
yeah. You know, that reminds me, around the time of Eight Millimeter, there
was another movie that came out pretty close to it called The Mexican. It had Julia
Roberts and Brad Pitt

[raj] (41:12):
Yep.

[Shishir] (41:12):
as like the top stars, James Gagniflin, he was in that too. And this is like one thing
that I'll say that maybe a lot of people wouldn't agree with, but I don't really
consider Brad Pitt I think he's really well coached and he is like a very like he
has a Very very like narrow range that like he's been like just coached and coached

(41:39):
and coached to do well but like his Branding and stuff has taken him to a high
high level. So like, you know as far as like You know the box office numbers
and all that stuff goes like he you know pretty much performs, but I Don't consider
him like I don't think he's like Naturally like a good actor, right? Like you
just don't think he has that talent so but to the reason I'm mentioning that is

(42:03):
because in the movie the Mexican It's actually kind of an interesting story,
but it's not it did I think it flopped I don't think did that well, but James Gandolfini's
character in that movie was Amazing like I watched it and I that's the one character.
I remember really well to this day for the movie and that came out I think in
early but he was just awesome. And I was like, actually remember, I was like,

(42:29):
okay, he's been an eight millimeter, just 99. Now he did this. It was, you know,
relatively small role compared to the main people. But I was like, Oh, you know,
I hope he gets like, you know, more stuff, I just never expected it to be the sopranos.

[raj] (42:44):
You know what?

[Shishir] (42:44):
And then I was like,

[raj] (42:45):
I'm gonna have to watch it. Actually, so it came out a little bit after The Sopranos.
It came out in 2001. And

[Shishir] (42:57):
Okay.

[raj] (42:57):
I'm not gonna have to watch this movie. The story was that Julia Roberts loved The
Sopranos and she

[Shishir] (43:04):
Ah, okay.

[raj] (43:04):
loved James Candifini as the actor. And

[Shishir] (43:08):
Yeah.

[raj] (43:09):
so, and I think she was probably the producer, probably one of the producers of
the film. She

[Shishir] (43:14):
down.

[raj] (43:14):
was the one that said, hey, we need to cast this guy.

[Shishir] (43:19):
Yeah, no.

[raj] (43:20):
But yeah, you see him. I mean, there's some movies, there's a great movie called In
the Loop. I don't know if you've seen, it's made by the same guys that made the great
TV show, Veep. It's kind of like a political,

[Shishir] (43:32):
Thank you.

[raj] (43:33):
In the
Loop came out in 2009. It's about the George W. Bush WMD era.

[Shishir] (43:40):
Yeah.

[raj] (43:42):
And I think he plays the mayor taking a film, one, two, three.

[Shishir] (43:47):
Ah, okay,

[raj] (43:47):
And

[Shishir] (43:47):
okay.

[raj] (43:48):
it's actually a great role. He kind of plays the half-clueless mayor, but he also

[Shishir] (43:53):
Yeah.

[raj] (43:53):
plays the mayor that kind of gives it, that figures stuff out.

[Shishir] (43:58):
Yeah.

[raj] (43:59):
And that's the game to feed he's good at. Like, you know, he's like, he kind of play
that politician that's a

[Shishir] (44:07):
Yeah.

[raj] (44:07):
little bit dirty, but it's got more good morals too.

[Shishir] (44:10):
Yeah.

[raj] (44:11):
And he can play. A hit man.

[Shishir] (44:16):
Yes. Yes.

[raj] (44:17):
That's got a personality.

[Shishir] (44:19):
Yep. Yep.

[raj] (44:20):
And, uh, and you can play a total sicko.

[Shishir] (44:26):
Yeah,

[raj] (44:26):
Like in this movie, 8mm.

[Shishir] (44:29):
his versatility was phenomenal. That's why I think this movie, Eight Millimeter is
kind of a great example where you have more than one person. It's not even like
two, let's say the top, like you had two top stars, like two top building, way
beyond that actually, multiple characters, even the lawyer who was like kind of a scumbag

(44:50):
character. I remember and I was like, man, They all hit it out of the park. They
were all really good character actors and just did a great job. Afterwards, their
body of work

[raj] (45:05):
They

[Shishir] (45:05):
was phenomenal.

[raj] (45:05):
all, they've all had like great careers.

[Shishir] (45:09):
Exactly. Yeah. The main, I think the most villainous one, or the machine is
probably one of the more villainous ones, but the other guy

[raj] (45:17):
Brains

[Shishir] (45:17):
who was like

[raj] (45:17):
though,

[Shishir] (45:17):
those two.

[raj] (45:18):
the guy at the point Dino.

[Shishir] (45:20):
Exactly.

[raj] (45:20):
Yeah.

[Shishir] (45:20):
Yeah. Yeah. He, yes, Peter Stormair. That's that, that actor is another phenomenal
character actor. He played the devil in Constantine, that Keon Reeves movie. And
I remember when, you know, because in the I'm wondering who's gonna play it and
I actually thought this would be you when he came and appeared as Like this

(45:45):
is he's a phenomenal actor because he can play a variety different roles as you
know, so so

[raj] (45:54):
Yeah, he's also,

[Shishir] (45:54):
it was just

[raj] (45:54):
he's also, I just saw this movie recently, Minority Report, but he's in that movie

[Shishir] (46:00):
Yep.

[raj] (46:00):
too.

[Shishir] (46:01):
I remember that. Yeah, he played the convicted felon that

[raj] (46:04):
He,

[Shishir] (46:04):
does the black market

[raj] (46:05):
yeah, the underground,

[Shishir] (46:06):
stuff.

[raj] (46:08):
he sells eyeballs

[Shishir] (46:10):
Exactly.

[raj] (46:10):
and performs

[Shishir] (46:10):
Yep. Yep.

[raj] (46:10):
surgery.

[Shishir] (46:12):
This used to be a former doctor. Yep. That was another character I remember
from Minority Report. And I was like, wow, like, who is this guy? Right. And I was
like, oh, I remember seeing him in eight millimeter. He was the bad guy at eight
millimeter. And the the so so I felt like they had a in that that film, they just

(46:33):
had such a great cast. The writer also
He did seven he wrote seven and he did another movie and Seven I thought was like
it was a dark film But but pretty well it was I mean as well well received that

(46:54):
a lot of I think a lot of recognition a lot of awards And you know, but it was more
was very fictional right so like You know, I Kind of I liked it But I I don't
know at the same time I thought the ending was a little too... Like I know what
they were trying to go for. They were trying to have something that wasn't like

(47:15):
a typical, what they call Hollywood ending. But,

[raj] (47:19):
Well, but

[Shishir] (47:20):
you know, it wasn't...

[raj] (47:20):
you know, I actually love Seven, but it's like this kind of like the same darkness,

[Shishir] (47:27):
Yeah.

[raj] (47:27):
you know, a little bit similar universe.

[Shishir] (47:31):
Thank you.

[raj] (47:31):
I was just looking up the writer. I mean, he's, he also directed Sleepy Hollow, which
Tim Burton did, which I like.

[Shishir] (47:39):
Yeah.

[raj] (47:39):
And there's

[Shishir] (47:40):
Sure.

[raj] (47:40):
a new movie called The Killer, directed by David

[Shishir] (47:44):
Yeah.

[raj] (47:44):
Fincher that's coming out later this year. So,

[Shishir] (47:47):
So.

[raj] (47:47):
and then, you know, looks like
He's also a script doctor for a lot of Dave and Fincher movies too. So yeah.

[Shishir] (48:00):
Yeah.

[raj] (48:00):
So this

[Shishir] (48:01):
Yeah.

[raj] (48:01):
guy

[Shishir] (48:01):
Very,

[raj] (48:01):
does dark movies.

[Shishir] (48:03):
exactly. Yeah. He, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he,
he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he,

[raj] (48:11):
I agree, yep.

[Shishir] (48:13):
he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he,
he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he,
he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he,
he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he I feel came
out this like in this modern age like well actually that was modern too but

(48:34):
I'd say like you know 2020s I think it would be like a runaway hit. I mean Just
just seeing how much how well received a lot of the overly dark stuff that um,

[raj] (48:46):
I totally

[Shishir] (48:46):
you know

[raj] (48:46):
agree.

[Shishir] (48:47):
gets

[raj] (48:47):
Yeah, I mean, I think this movie would do very well if it was like a Netflix original
or even an HBO original.

[Shishir] (48:55):
Yeah.

[raj] (48:58):
Yeah, and I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing that people like. I mean,

[Shishir] (49:03):
Welcome.

[raj] (49:03):
I'm one of them, but yeah. I mean, I

[Shishir] (49:07):
I

[raj] (49:07):
feel

[Shishir] (49:07):
would,

[raj] (49:08):
like,

[Shishir] (49:08):
I see,

[raj] (49:08):
yeah, go ahead, I'm sorry. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

[Shishir] (49:10):
yeah. No, no, it's okay. I was gonna say, I feel like if it was done nowadays, what
I would probably dislike is that it'd be too graphic.

[raj] (49:18):
Yes.

[Shishir] (49:18):
I think the way they did it in the 90s was perfect in terms of getting that subject
matter across, but also in really enjoyable film. Like you're like, I don't know,
I was gripping my seat, like wanting to see what happens. Like it's like you have
like this phenomenal mystery But you also feel like, okay, how does a victim

(49:41):
get justice?

[raj] (49:41):
Yep. So you had this like murder mystery,

[Shishir] (49:45):
Yeah,

[raj] (49:45):
which

[Shishir] (49:46):
you never meet the victim, right? And I've seen other movies where they've tried
to do the same thing, not the same subject, but where they have a victim that's
already something bad has happened to them. And then there's like a mystery about
it. But you never really like, at least for me, there's not many movies that
I feel do a good job where you care about like the victim as much. Like you just
kind of, you see that something has happened where like let's say they're murdered

(50:09):
or something offscreen. And then the movie starts and then like there's an investigation
or whatnot. But

[raj] (50:15):
Well,

[Shishir] (50:15):
Thank you.

[raj] (50:15):
we

[Shishir] (50:15):
Bye.

[raj] (50:15):
do do it. I mean, you know, so Tom, Nicholas Cage's character does travel to go visit the
mom.

[Shishir] (50:24):
Yes, yes, yep.

[raj] (50:28):
And, you know, that wasn't just a useless kind of, no, I should say useless, a scene
to try to like, you know, make the audience get, know a little bit more about the daughter
feel for, but it also moved the plot because that's where he found the diary. And
so, that's where he found the diary. And so, that's

[Shishir] (50:39):
Yeah.

[raj] (50:39):
where he found the diary. And so, that's where he found the diary. And so, that's where
he found

[Shishir] (50:42):
Yeah.

[raj] (50:42):
the diary. And so, that's where he found the diary.

[Shishir] (50:44):
Yes, yes, it actually contributes to the investigation, like collection of data,
and then like kind of putting, you know, clues and stuff, putting it together,
like how, you know, we're retracing the steps of where she went,

[raj] (50:57):
Yep.

[Shishir] (50:57):
where the girl went and stuff.

[raj] (50:58):
And then

[Shishir] (50:59):
I actually, yeah, you know.

[raj] (51:00):
the one thing I didn't notice when I first watched the movie, because when I first
watched the movie, it was the darkness I was so consumed, that anything in the movie
that was a little flawed or didn't make sense, it didn't matter to me because I was
so engrossed

[Shishir] (51:16):
Yeah.

[raj] (51:16):
on the who done it aspect and who's this criminal world that I've never seen before.
I'm fascinated by it, but also

[Shishir] (51:23):
Yeah.

[raj] (51:23):
disgusted by it at the same time.

[Shishir] (51:25):
Yeah, right.

[raj] (51:27):
But Tom Wells' wife, like, and I

[Shishir] (51:30):
Yeah.

[raj] (51:30):
know why they did it, and it makes sense towards the end. So he has these pirotic phone
calls with his wife Amy, played by Catherine Keener, who

[Shishir] (51:40):
Yes.

[raj] (51:40):
I love. She's a great actress,

[Shishir] (51:41):
Yes.

[raj] (51:42):
but it was

[Shishir] (51:42):
Great

[raj] (51:42):
like

[Shishir] (51:42):
actor.

[raj] (51:42):
a throwaway role though.

[Shishir] (51:44):
Yeah.

[raj] (51:46):
And you know, she's like, when are you coming home? Or is I'm coming home? But something
that Max California told Tom Wells, he was like, be careful. Once you get in, I've
seen people

[Shishir] (51:55):
Yeah.

[raj] (51:56):
get sucked in. and they never

[Shishir] (51:57):
Yes.

[raj] (51:57):
come out.

[Shishir] (51:59):
Yep, yep.

[raj] (51:59):
And you kind of see that with the phone calls in the beginning, Tom's updating her
on what happened that day. And I love you. Be home soon. To where he's not now not
paying attention on the phone call, to then

[Shishir] (52:17):
Thank you. Thank you.

[raj] (52:17):
to a point where he's not even answering the phone anymore.

[Shishir] (52:20):
Yep, yep,

[raj] (52:20):
He's all

[Shishir] (52:21):
that's right.

[raj] (52:21):
in on this investigation. And I don't know if we really have a good time frame. It
doesn't really show. But like, he's like all in. Like he's just,

[Shishir] (52:29):
Yeah.

[raj] (52:30):
it's, this case is going a little bit longer than he thought it was.

[Shishir] (52:34):
Yeah,

[raj] (52:34):
And

[Shishir] (52:34):
yeah.

[raj] (52:35):
he spent all his time watching these type of movies. And... And... And... And...
And... And... And...

[Shishir] (52:39):
I

[raj] (52:39):
And...

[Shishir] (52:40):
know,

[raj] (52:40):
And...

[Shishir] (52:40):
yeah,

[raj] (52:40):
And... And... And...

[Shishir] (52:40):
yeah.

[raj] (52:40):
And... And... And... And... And... And... And...

[Shishir] (52:41):
I mean, it's, you know, you can see how, yeah, you're right. It shows the effect
that it's having on

[raj] (52:47):
So

[Shishir] (52:47):
this.

[raj] (52:48):
I get why they did that. I did think there was a little, kind of a throwaway flaw,
but I think he kind of had to do that. He had to have a family. You can't have him
be a single, uh,

[Shishir] (52:58):
Yeah. It's inconvenient, right?

[raj] (53:00):
yeah.

[Shishir] (53:00):
If he doesn't have like other responsibilities in his own personal life, it's just like, then
if he doesn't, it's almost like he becomes his fictional superhero type person
with like, where he can spend all of his time and has no consequences on anything
that it affects in his own personal

[raj] (53:17):
You

[Shishir] (53:17):
life.

[raj] (53:17):
know what you brought up like private eyes and it kind of made me think

[Shishir] (53:21):
Yeah.

[raj] (53:21):
I'm a huge fan of Raymond Chandler and I've been reading some of his books and

[Shishir] (53:25):
Yeah.

[raj] (53:26):
Phillip Marlowe. He's like a single dude and I love

[Shishir] (53:30):
Yes.

[raj] (53:30):
that character is a great character, but it's

[Shishir] (53:33):
Yeah.

[raj] (53:33):
like.
He's got no one to care for.

[Shishir] (53:39):
Yeah.

[raj] (53:40):
But in a way that allows him to take the toughest cases, that

[Shishir] (53:44):
great

[raj] (53:44):
where he can get himself killed for somebody that he doesn't even know. So,

[Shishir] (53:49):
Exactly. Yeah.

[raj] (53:50):
and in this movie, he's almost doing the same thing, but he's got

[Shishir] (53:55):
Yeah.

[raj] (53:55):
a wife and a kid.

[Shishir] (53:57):
Yeah.

[raj] (53:57):
And you're kind of like, wow, he's really pushing it. And just

[Shishir] (54:00):
Thank

[raj] (54:01):
when

[Shishir] (54:01):
you. Thank you.

[raj] (54:01):
he gets home safe, or he tells his wife to go to a safe place, And then when he meets

[Shishir] (54:07):
to.

[raj] (54:07):
him there, just when you, because he turns, he, they handcuffed them, you know,
when they ambush him at the shoot.

[Shishir] (54:17):
Yeah. Yeah.

[raj] (54:18):
And he was so smart to mention about the payoff. So he gets the two,

[Shishir] (54:24):
Thank you. Thank you.

[raj] (54:24):
the villains to turn on each other. Just two of them killed him, kill each other.

[Shishir] (54:28):
Yes,

[raj] (54:28):
And then

[Shishir] (54:28):
yes.

[raj] (54:28):
he escapes in a very like intense, intense moment, well-directed. And

[Shishir] (54:33):
Yep. Yep. Thank you.

[raj] (54:35):
the movie could have ended.

[Shishir] (54:37):
Yep. Yep.

[raj] (54:38):
But he changes his mind the next day and all of a sudden it becomes a revenge movie.

[Shishir] (54:46):
Yep, exactly. How do you get justice?

[raj] (54:48):
And then he all of a sudden is the torturer and murderer.

[Shishir] (54:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah,

[raj] (54:55):
And

[Shishir] (54:55):
you're

[raj] (54:55):
I

[Shishir] (54:55):
right.

[raj] (54:55):
felt the movie does it in a dark way. I don't know if the audience is asking for
it. Or I mean, it's like, I feel like I'm conflicted. Like. I don't know. I don't
know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know. I don't

[Shishir] (55:02):
So.

[raj] (55:02):
know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
I don't know. He's getting into that darkness, you know?

[Shishir] (55:10):
Yeah, I think the way they presented it was that it would be very hard to get these
people in jail for what they deserve, life sentences or something of that sort, and
they'd probably just get off within a very short period of time.

[raj] (55:29):
It's this criminal underworld, you know,

[Shishir] (55:32):
Yeah.

[raj] (55:32):
another dead body.

[Shishir] (55:34):
How do you prove that, you know, that they're getting all

[raj] (55:37):
Let's

[Shishir] (55:37):
that?

[raj] (55:37):
tie this to a murder that happened many, I mean, it's horrific that I'm,

[Shishir] (55:43):
Yeah.

[raj] (55:43):
you know, but in the movie, it's like, it's real life though, if a murder happened
many, many, many years ago to somebody

[Shishir] (55:49):
Thank you.

[raj] (55:49):
that's not important, you know, like a non-celebrity or a non-politician, it's like.
It's like, We're not

[Shishir] (55:57):
Exactly.

[raj] (55:57):
gonna deal with it. You know,

[Shishir] (55:58):
Exactly.

[raj] (55:58):
it's,

[Shishir] (55:59):
It's

[raj] (56:00):
and

[Shishir] (56:00):
a... Yeah. Yeah.

[raj] (56:01):
he

[Shishir] (56:01):
Yeah.

[raj] (56:01):
knows

[Shishir] (56:01):
Yeah. Yeah.

[raj] (56:01):
that. Tom Wells knows that. And I think when he visited the mom, read the diary, saw
that fit. I mean, he... I mean, he... I mean, he... I mean, he... I mean, he... I
mean, he... I mean, he... I mean, he... I mean, he... I mean, he... I mean, he... I
mean, he... I mean, he... I mean, he... I mean, he... I mean, he... I mean, he... I
mean, he... I mean, he... I mean, he... I mean, he...
Ed has a kid on the way, or has a kid,

[Shishir] (56:15):
Yeah.

[raj] (56:15):
I mean, already, a little baby. He's just like, he had to get justice.

[Shishir] (56:24):
Exactly. Yeah. Like how do you do something to like reduce the dark like dark
elements that are in the world, right? Because it's it's

[raj] (56:32):
I also think he was

[Shishir] (56:32):
these

[raj] (56:32):
pissed, you know?

[Shishir] (56:34):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[raj] (56:35):
And, uh...

[Shishir] (56:36):
I mean like he was basically he almost like lost his life, right?

[raj] (56:39):
Yep.

[Shishir] (56:40):
Yeah,

[raj] (56:41):
For someone that he doesn't know.

[Shishir] (56:43):
yeah,

[raj] (56:44):
Yeah.

[Shishir] (56:44):
they're like, you know, it's it's That those guys like they don't operate by
the same rules, you know Like they don't they don't they're not a lot abiding
citizens. And like, you know, you try to, you try to follow the rules in that
situation, but they're very, very intelligent. Like, where's the evidence to
really like, you know, they've admitted that they're guilty, but there's nothing on

(57:07):
like tape. There's no hard evidence that can really keep them in jail.

[raj] (57:13):
Yep.

[Shishir] (57:14):
It was, yeah, it's a situation where I, you know, you know, you kind of root for
you root for him, even though he, he basically tortures and kills the bad guys,
it's kind of like he loses a part of himself too

[raj] (57:31):
Yep.

[Shishir] (57:32):
in a sense, right? But it's not such a terrible cost because a pretty awful thing
happened to an innocent girl in that universe. So that's kind of the least, that's
the most that you could get for justice in a sense. I feel like in real life, they

(57:52):
went to jail. parole for like good behavior in like a year or two or something.
Like it's just at the time like there was you know not much resources in this, not
much information about these kind of underground crime type of things that were
happening.

[raj] (58:09):
Yep.

[Shishir] (58:12):
Yeah.

[raj] (58:12):
Yep. Alright, we're kind of reaching the hour mark. Is there anything else you had
like you wanted to bring up on this movie?

[Shishir] (58:19):
Um, not really. I mean, I think we covered all the, yeah, all the different aspects
I loved about it. I mean, uh, the, the, you really get the feeling, um, it's just
so visceral across the entire, the entire time. Like,

[raj] (58:35):
Yep.

[Shishir] (58:35):
I don't think there was ever a dull moment. It wasn't like, um, but, but I love
the, you know, I love the aspect of the, the detective work and then, um, kind
of like the You see the
kind of the battle that he had, conscious battle that you have, you know, trying to be

(58:59):
a good person, but not like also like murdered either, right? So like you see
that constant kind of battle going on and you know, just masterfully done. I honestly
think this movie should, I'm not that I believe in rating systems, but I feel
like it's a disservice on IMDB because I think that's, you know, a lot of people use

(59:22):
that in the CEO. Should I watch something or not? And it's, yeah, it's something that
I'm like, okay, this should get like much higher rating.

[raj] (59:31):
No, no, I totally

[Shishir] (59:32):
But

[raj] (59:32):
agree. And it was, you know, it's, I saw just about every movie in the 90s and I
still remember this movie. And so I'm glad

[Shishir] (59:40):
Yeah.

[raj] (59:40):
you brought it up. So, so, all right. I

[Shishir] (59:41):
Yeah.

[raj] (59:41):
think this is a good time to end it. If you

[Shishir] (59:43):
Nice.

[raj] (59:43):
don't mind staying along to finish the upload. So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so,
so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so,
so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so,
so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so,

[Shishir] (59:48):
Sure, sure.