The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (1920)

Today’s film is “The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari,” released in 1920. Starring Werner Krauss as Dr. Caligari and Conrad Veidt as Cesare. The movie is directed by Robert Wiene.

Episode Transcript

[raj] (00:01):
all right the cabinet of dr collicaligary did i pronounce that right

[Ben] (00:06):
as far as you know

[raj] (00:08):
awesome

[Ben] (00:08):
you never

[raj] (00:08):
released

[Ben] (00:08):
hear him say

[raj] (00:09):
in

[Ben] (00:09):
his

[raj] (00:09):
nineteen

[Ben] (00:09):
name you

[raj] (00:09):
twenty

[Ben] (00:10):
never hear him say his name in the entire movie

[raj] (00:13):
well that's that's what that's that's a sign of movie for you so

[Ben] (00:17):
yeah

[raj] (00:18):
all right let me tell you why i love this movie and i did love
this movie the production and set design

[Ben] (00:24):
yeah

[raj] (00:25):
it is off the charts now i know i use that word often when describing
movies but i really do mean at this time every scene looks like a painting
done by some avon guard artists the rooms have walls that are slanted or curved
the buildings have sharp edges and windows are shaped like ramp uh the set

[Ben] (00:48):
oh

[raj] (00:48):
yeah the whole production designed lets the viewers know that this film

[Ben] (00:53):
yes

[raj] (00:54):
is bizarre even mad

[Ben] (00:58):
yeah

[raj] (00:58):
and unpredictable a world where anything goes and right from the start the movie has
a creepy field you see francis sitting on the park bench with another man a
francis fiance jane walks by with almost with an almost expressionless face

[Ben] (01:16):
oh

[raj] (01:17):
she doesn't even look at francis

[Ben] (01:18):
yeah

[raj] (01:19):
and then francis tells the other guy i was like oh she's my fiance a

[Ben] (01:23):
you get the you get the sense that she is very disturbed something

[raj] (01:28):
she is very

[Ben] (01:28):
has happened

[raj] (01:29):
disturbed and i i'm glad you said that i love when movies start out with
this kind of weirdness or disturb where you have this like wow this is just
irby

[Ben] (01:40):
yeah

[raj] (01:40):
and then the rest of the movie is there to explain why yeah

[Ben] (01:45):
yeah there's

[raj] (01:46):
so

[Ben] (01:46):
tremendous foreshadowing and fact

[raj] (01:49):
oh

[Ben] (01:49):
everything seems disturbing one of the facts that the scenery

[raj] (01:52):
yeah

[Ben] (01:52):
has the odd angles the fact that nothing seems to have a right angle any
in the movie

[raj] (01:57):
yeah

[Ben] (01:57):
nothing that's completely vertical nor completely horizontal

[raj] (02:00):
ah

[Ben] (02:01):
it's really kind of throwing you into this is

[raj] (02:05):
yeah

[Ben] (02:05):
the world where madness reigns supreme where the

[raj] (02:09):
m

[Ben] (02:09):
madman is king and where

[raj] (02:12):
oh

[Ben] (02:12):
saying people are the playthings of mad people and

[raj] (02:18):
yeh

[Ben] (02:19):
it is very now some of this is just brilliant artistic design

[raj] (02:22):
oh

[Ben] (02:23):
that you can see there's definitely very

[raj] (02:24):
oh

[Ben] (02:24):
strong cubist influence s this is this movie was made directly after were one the
cubist movement is

[raj] (02:30):
yeah

[Ben] (02:30):
in full swing this point

[raj] (02:31):
oh

[Ben] (02:32):
although it's not peaked and but it's also

[raj] (02:35):
yeah

[Ben] (02:36):
a lot of it was simply the you know the poverty post war

[raj] (02:43):
oh

[Ben] (02:43):
germany they couldn't get

[raj] (02:46):
oh

[Ben] (02:46):
bigger sets they couldn't build bigger sets there was the

[raj] (02:50):
oh

[Ben] (02:50):
studios were bankrupt the actors were making good money for germany at the time but
you

[raj] (02:57):
oh

[Ben] (02:57):
know tiny tiny tiny salaries compared to what american or british or italian actors

[raj] (03:04):
no

[Ben] (03:04):
would be making um

[raj] (03:06):
ah

[Ben] (03:07):
it is and

[raj] (03:08):
oh

[Ben] (03:08):
a lot of these bizarre camera angles it's simply because they couldn't put the camera
anywhere else it's a combination of artistic genius but also necessity pushing the genius even
further

[raj] (03:22):
well said well said

[Ben] (03:24):
oh

[raj] (03:25):
sometimes like

[Ben] (03:26):
oh

[raj] (03:27):
the accidental

[Ben] (03:28):
oh

[raj] (03:30):
genius even more genius

[Ben] (03:32):
yeah

[raj] (03:33):
the plan genius

[Ben] (03:34):
yeah i mean it is like there

[raj] (03:39):
oh

[Ben] (03:39):
were situations where they in order to illustrate light they couldn't actually have lights

[raj] (03:44):
oh

[Ben] (03:44):
so they had to paint lights like okay we only get the lights we

[raj] (03:47):
yeah

[Ben] (03:47):
have in the front and we can't

[raj] (03:49):
oh

[Ben] (03:49):
actually do anything else

[raj] (03:51):
a

[Ben] (03:51):
but it is now

[raj] (03:53):
yeah

[Ben] (03:54):
i mean go on ahead going and enough with the sets enough with the sets

[raj] (03:59):
so yeah let's get into the movie actually so

[Ben] (04:01):
yeah

[raj] (04:02):
so this movie is like part flash back or mostly most of it's a flash
back

[Ben] (04:06):
oh

[raj] (04:08):
and the flash back is

[Ben] (04:10):
yeah

[raj] (04:11):
we'll just give away the ending

[Ben] (04:13):
well

[raj] (04:14):
we find out

[Ben] (04:14):
yes

[raj] (04:15):
well go ahead

[Ben] (04:16):
you're goin t give away the ending

[raj] (04:18):
yeah

[Ben] (04:18):
oh

[raj] (04:19):
well i was going to say like so the movie is a flash back but

[Ben] (04:23):
ye

[raj] (04:23):
flash backs made up it's all the guy's head

[Ben] (04:26):
this is kind of

[raj] (04:27):
so

[Ben] (04:28):
you know when you think about like stories like the occurrence at owl creek bridge
where

[raj] (04:33):
yeah

[Ben] (04:34):
the only part that really is happening real time was the beginning in the end
and everything is in the guy's head the

[raj] (04:39):
yeah

[Ben] (04:39):
same thing is going on here

[raj] (04:40):
oh

[Ben] (04:41):
um dr caligari who all though the movie is portrayed as this crazy man is
not

[raj] (04:48):
oh and by the way the guy that plays or word or cross

[Ben] (04:51):
oh

[raj] (04:53):
you could disagree with you if you want but he was fantastic

[Ben] (04:56):
yes

[raj] (04:57):
as dr caligari i mean just his acting was incredible and a lot of it
is just his look and his weight and when he was dressed asked

[Ben] (05:06):
well the other thing is also

[raj] (05:06):
but that's part of acting

[Ben] (05:08):
when you actually do

[raj] (05:09):
yeah

[Ben] (05:09):
see that in fact calgary this mad

[raj] (05:11):
ah

[Ben] (05:11):
scientist is nothing of the kind he's just the

[raj] (05:13):
yah

[Ben] (05:13):
doctor running the same

[raj] (05:15):
yah

[Ben] (05:15):
asie

[raj] (05:15):
the

[Ben] (05:16):
and

[raj] (05:16):
director

[Ben] (05:16):
he starts acting completely or

[raj] (05:18):
oh

[Ben] (05:18):
is almost unrecognizable until he puts his glasses on to read something and they're like
oh it really is

[raj] (05:26):
yeah

[Ben] (05:26):
calegory

[raj] (05:28):
we'll get to that final part well we'll get to that part a little bit
a little bit later i wanted i do want to talk about that because that's
like one of my favorite scenes in the movie but but go on yeah like

[Ben] (05:38):
yeah

[raj] (05:38):
uh

[Ben] (05:39):
oh

[raj] (05:41):
it's like we get this twist ending where like francis the whole flash back scene
in the middle is just part of his imagination but then it got me thinking
like

[Ben] (05:51):
oh

[raj] (05:53):
is it could it possibly be that maybe the whole thing was real and then
they put him in the asylum to cover it up and then when he was
in the asylum he was getting memories of this where it's like wait a minute
something i feel like i should be here something happened

[Ben] (06:14):
i actually kind of got the sense that

[raj] (06:16):
oh

[Ben] (06:16):
in fact

[raj] (06:17):
oh

[Ben] (06:18):
something was not right when

[raj] (06:20):
oh

[Ben] (06:21):
you know he follows caligory

[raj] (06:24):
oh

[Ben] (06:25):
to the insane asylum and he walks and he

[raj] (06:26):
kay

[Ben] (06:27):
said is there patient

[raj] (06:28):
oh

[Ben] (06:28):
cacaligory and s like no they find out that the cagaryis running the asylum and
all the doctors

[raj] (06:33):
yeah

[Ben] (06:33):
immediately side with him

[raj] (06:35):
yeah

[Ben] (06:36):
not with calgary and

[raj] (06:38):
so

[Ben] (06:38):
next thing you know calgary s under observation and like well that doesn't seem rational
or real

[raj] (06:44):
so i wrote that as part of my favorite scene and we'll get right i'll
just by as well jump around to it

[Ben] (06:50):
hey this movie

[raj] (06:51):
and

[Ben] (06:51):
is

[raj] (06:51):
actually

[Ben] (06:51):
insane

[raj] (06:51):
thought that was funny i thought out it was like hey wait a minute the
doctors sure are taking the side of some outsider they don't even know they're like
oh we believe him will wait till caligari is sleeping into his office look through
his private notes in his desk

[Ben] (07:12):
oh

[raj] (07:13):
to find out if he's a madman and

[Ben] (07:16):
ah

[raj] (07:17):
doctors are like okay let's do it

[Ben] (07:21):
yeah i mean

[raj] (07:22):
and i wonder if that's to give a hint for like people that are like

[Ben] (07:26):
yah

[raj] (07:27):
one step ahead when they're watching this movie like anyway something is not right here
oh

[Ben] (07:31):
yeah well yeah i mean well something is never quite right i mean the fact
is you always it is at no point are they ever

[raj] (07:42):
oh

[Ben] (07:42):
to giving you a sense that anything is okay that is the theme of the
movie

[raj] (07:49):
yeah

[Ben] (07:49):
everything is to tell

[raj] (07:51):
i

[Ben] (07:51):
you that things are not all right

[raj] (07:54):
yes

[Ben] (07:54):
down from like the sets to

[raj] (07:56):
okay

[Ben] (07:56):
the characters the actual appearance of category himself

[raj] (08:01):
oh

[Ben] (08:02):
the fact that you this bizarre

[raj] (08:03):
ah

[Ben] (08:04):
side show act it's just nothing

[raj] (08:11):
oh

[Ben] (08:12):
nothing at all at any

[raj] (08:14):
oh

[Ben] (08:14):
point tries to give

[raj] (08:15):
yeah

[Ben] (08:15):
you a sense

[raj] (08:16):
ah

[Ben] (08:16):
of normality

[raj] (08:16):
oh

[Ben] (08:17):
or a lack of danger you know and like you know one of the first
thing that introduces a sonambulists and i am like somnambulist

[raj] (08:28):
yeah

[Ben] (08:28):
what's the

[raj] (08:29):
do

[Ben] (08:29):
sonambulist and you know i never looked it up

[raj] (08:34):
you

[Ben] (08:34):
to

[raj] (08:34):
looked

[Ben] (08:34):
try

[raj] (08:34):
it

[Ben] (08:34):
to

[raj] (08:34):
up

[Ben] (08:34):
find out

[raj] (08:35):
you didn't look it up

[Ben] (08:36):
eh

[raj] (08:36):
i looked it up

[Ben] (08:37):
oh well you got to tell me what is the senambalist

[raj] (08:40):
a sleep walker

[Ben] (08:44):
except well he does do some he does do

[raj] (08:46):
yeah

[Ben] (08:46):
some sleep walking yeah but

[raj] (08:49):
but you know let's you know i'll get to some of the favorite scenes actually
because i said then we could go go on to what you were saying but
like jumping back a bet or like the part where you were like so he
goes to the town clerk

[Ben] (09:02):
yeah

[raj] (09:03):
and like i'm just amazed by the whole set aside of like this little hall
is like he's sitting on the chair that's really high up he's got to bend
way over on to his desk like i'm thinking

[Ben] (09:15):
oh

[raj] (09:17):
this town clerk is not related to urganomics

[Ben] (09:20):
ah i thought of him as a symbol of just kind of bureaucratic authority he's
not a king

[raj] (09:26):
yes

[Ben] (09:27):
he's not

[raj] (09:27):
ye

[Ben] (09:27):
an elected official he is simply a bureaucrat but he might as well be got
as far as like what you can do and where you can be i mean

[raj] (09:38):
yeah

[Ben] (09:38):
i'm sure a lot of people look at him that way and he really is

[raj] (09:41):
yah

[Ben] (09:42):
justice

[raj] (09:44):
that is like actually a common theme and movie sometimes where like the hero

[Ben] (09:49):
oh

[raj] (09:50):
is on his journey and runs into like some sort of like bureaucrat that has
this

[Ben] (09:57):
oh

[raj] (09:57):
unbelievable power but this

[Ben] (09:59):
yeah

[raj] (09:59):
buracrat or this person is not the bad i

[Ben] (10:03):
yeah

[raj] (10:04):
sure as well by as well be

[Ben] (10:07):
well i mean if you ever seen

[raj] (10:08):
at

[Ben] (10:08):
the twelve tasks of astrics it's animated

[raj] (10:11):
yes

[Ben] (10:11):
it's a cartoon but one of

[raj] (10:12):
oh

[Ben] (10:12):
them is one of the twelve herculean tasks as he has to you know get
a copy of a certain form from burocratic

[raj] (10:18):
yeah

[Ben] (10:18):
building and they almost don't succeed it becomes

[raj] (10:23):
yeah

[Ben] (10:24):
a mind maddening

[raj] (10:25):
oh

[Ben] (10:25):
it's like you know the ancient greek version

[raj] (10:27):
yeah

[Ben] (10:28):
of like being you know of ulysses being torn you tied to the mass and
being driven crazy the sirens

[raj] (10:34):
oh

[Ben] (10:34):
except for in this case it's just simple bureaucracy which just brings the heroes to
a state of madness of course that's a different movie

[raj] (10:41):
a

[Ben] (10:42):
but you know i mean i can imagine like if calgary

[raj] (10:44):
oh

[Ben] (10:45):
calgary was clearly crazy

[raj] (10:47):
yeah

[Ben] (10:47):
going in there and this did not help

[raj] (10:49):
m

[Ben] (10:49):
now

[raj] (10:50):
well

[Ben] (10:50):
your first impression of calgary is the bizarre combed hair the mickey mouse loves these
are literally micky mouse gloves

[raj] (11:00):
ah

[Ben] (11:00):
and the way his eyes

[raj] (11:01):
yeah

[Ben] (11:01):
he seems to be able

[raj] (11:02):
yeah

[Ben] (11:02):
to get his eyes to move in two different directions at the same time

[raj] (11:05):
yeah yeah

[Ben] (11:07):
and you're just like holy cow this is not one of them good doctors

[raj] (11:12):
no no i

[Ben] (11:13):
this

[raj] (11:13):
mean right

[Ben] (11:13):
is not dor

[raj] (11:13):
and that's

[Ben] (11:14):
who

[raj] (11:15):
i think with the casting and the costumes that's like you know like this guy
is not a good doctor probably the bad guy in the movie

[Ben] (11:25):
yeah

[raj] (11:26):
and

[Ben] (11:26):
he's not a good doctor and now he's not misunderstood either

[raj] (11:30):
but what's funny

[Ben] (11:31):
except

[raj] (11:31):
he

[Ben] (11:31):
he

[raj] (11:31):
gets

[Ben] (11:32):
is

[raj] (11:32):
he goes he goes to visit the town clerk and immediately he's like dis respected
he's like no no no wait he's been told to wait a couple of times
told of sitting in a chair so he's waiting and then when he fought italy

[Ben] (11:51):
ah

[raj] (11:52):
gets the town clerk it's like the town clerk

[Ben] (11:53):
yeah

[raj] (11:54):
is on his way leaving like clock it out go and help and the last
person that he asked to see is dr caligari dr call caleras like hail ent
permit for the carnival the town fair

[Ben] (12:07):
oh

[raj] (12:08):
and to be a somnambulist and the laugh and the dismissiveness of the town clerk
is so funny and then the reaction

[Ben] (12:19):
m

[raj] (12:20):
of dr caligari it's like he is pissed off

[Ben] (12:26):
but he got his pere he was there at the town

[raj] (12:28):
he got

[Ben] (12:28):
fair

[raj] (12:28):
his perfect the town clerk does signal to

[Ben] (12:32):
oh

[raj] (12:32):
one of the staff guys to come over and help him out and he gets
his permit and then the town fair is like the next scene and what i
love about the scene is before dr caligari uh enters the frame he kind of
show the cardival and we got t be thinking like they don't show a whole
lot like the camera doesn't move i don't think it moves at all it just

(12:55):
shows it that one scene you see a background of ple walking back and forth
then you see a cart with a monkey and a guy and people coming across
and pay in money and i was thinking it was like you know that's pretty
economical you know they didn't build a huge carnival town fair set just one frame

(13:15):
middle but you know it's a town frame and people are paid to pay the
guy i with the monkey and i kept thinking man that monkey is not doing
much and it seems like the people that are paying for the monkey aren't very
impressed

[Ben] (13:31):
my

[raj] (13:31):
like they pay and then they leave like two seconds afterwards

[Ben] (13:34):
i mean

[raj] (13:34):
uh

[Ben] (13:34):
you know after you see a sanambalist

[raj] (13:36):
yeah

[Ben] (13:37):
how impressed can you be with a monkey

[raj] (13:39):
well it was before we see this sanambulist but yes
well you know when i see a

[Ben] (13:46):
oh

[raj] (13:46):
monkey i kep my i can't take my eyes off of it so including in
this v

[Ben] (13:54):
well okay

[raj] (13:57):
so hey shall we go to the scene when we first see the when we
first see caesar the sundambalist

[Ben] (14:04):
sure

[raj] (14:06):
so that's a great scene he's got a crowded house

[Ben] (14:09):
m yeah

[raj] (14:11):
like it's a packed house like everybody's there

[Ben] (14:14):
well it's kind of one interesting you know one you

[raj] (14:17):
yeah

[Ben] (14:17):
know looking back on it if this guy is

[raj] (14:19):
yes

[Ben] (14:19):
running in a sane asylum why did i need the money the side show carnival
apt isn't

[raj] (14:27):
but we don't know that yet

[Ben] (14:28):
we

[raj] (14:28):
though

[Ben] (14:28):
don't know that yet yeah he just seems to be kind of this mad doctor

[raj] (14:31):
yeah

[Ben] (14:31):
you know we don't really realize that especially the way he's treated by the town
cork that he's actually somebody somewhat respected man in the community which is why it
is such a surprise when you do find

[raj] (14:41):
yeah

[Ben] (14:42):
out that he is obviously not too respected because his own doctors basically decided

[raj] (14:49):
my

[Ben] (14:49):
to trust the guy coming off the street like hey i think this guy is
a crazy killer

[raj] (14:55):
oh

[Ben] (14:56):
yeah well okay which it we'll believe you yeah

[raj] (15:01):
so h and then when he finally brings out cesar the sleep walker

[Ben] (15:08):
m

[raj] (15:08):
and i think he like she's like caesar will tell you your faith or answer
any question

[Ben] (15:12):
yeah any question at all

[raj] (15:13):
and yeah and and when allen francis s friend raises his hand i think francis
is already having bad vives he's like tugging on his on his shoulder his r
he's like closed telling him like no no no you don't want to do this
it's like he already knows he's got bad vibes on it uh but ale goes

(15:37):
through with it and actually as one of my favorite sees with

[Ben] (15:41):
okay

[raj] (15:41):
when caesar tells alive that you're gonna be dying soon like

[Ben] (15:44):
yeah

[raj] (15:45):
next morning uh

[Ben] (15:48):
at the break you will live till the break of dawn

[raj] (15:51):
and the look on alan's face was absolute horror

[Ben] (15:57):
well he was taken

[raj] (15:57):
a

[Ben] (15:58):
in by this act

[raj] (15:59):
yeah so yeah exactly like it wasn't like for him like a joke

[Ben] (16:03):
yeah

[raj] (16:03):
in a good time it was like holy smoke

[Ben] (16:06):
m

[raj] (16:07):
that's dark

[Ben] (16:08):
that is dark

[raj] (16:10):
like i came here to have a good time and all of a sudden now
this guy is telling

[Ben] (16:12):
oh

[raj] (16:12):
me i'm going to die i mean it's one thing you

[Ben] (16:16):
oh

[raj] (16:16):
go to those things and the guy would tell you like you're going to meet
the love of your life and get married tomorrow

[Ben] (16:22):
ah

[raj] (16:23):
but no

[Ben] (16:23):
well but this might actually

[raj] (16:25):
yeah

[Ben] (16:25):
be a good strategy for a carnival act you're not going to survive the night
spend your money now spend it here you ain't going to be

[raj] (16:37):
m

[Ben] (16:37):
around

[raj] (16:37):
oh

[Ben] (16:38):
the morning and can't take it with you come on come on we got caught
candy there's so

[raj] (16:43):
oh

[Ben] (16:43):
many more shows and rides

[raj] (16:46):
oh

[Ben] (16:46):
bull it now

[raj] (16:51):
yeah but you know it's funny though so then after the carnival you see both
allen and francis walk you can tell allen still a little bit shaken and then
they do meet

[Ben] (17:01):
oh

[raj] (17:01):
chain and we get the idea that jane both allen and francis love jane

[Ben] (17:08):
oh

[raj] (17:09):
and it looks like jane loves both of them

[Ben] (17:11):
m

[raj] (17:12):
and so it's like okay things are on the up and up but did you
see dr caligari come out of nowhere

[Ben] (17:22):
oh

[raj] (17:23):
i don't if you remember that scene where he comes out and he turns off
like one of the one of the lamps outside

[Ben] (17:29):
oh

[raj] (17:31):
it's like he's setting something up and then that's when they see that like that
the poster for reward of like

[Ben] (17:37):
yeah

[raj] (17:38):
murder that's on the loose am i getting that

[Ben] (17:40):
yeah

[raj] (17:40):
right and then shortly after that and that's what kind of got me that's why
i wrote down like the town clerk because i was like when the town clerk
was laughing at dr caligari and dr cower gives a peturbablook and i was like
oh something is going to happen to the to the clerk the how because you

(18:00):
don't you don't disrespect a evil doctor like that and he's the first to get
killed

[Ben] (18:07):
yeah i mean well i mean the thing

[raj] (18:09):
yeah

[Ben] (18:09):
is though you don't really know that necessarily there's going to end up murder you
know something bad is going to happen but you also kind of think that oh
you must be kind of a minor character m you know

[raj] (18:21):
yeah

[Ben] (18:23):
would think that it would just be this huge thing but i mean yeah you
never expected the court well the court isn't a major character but

[raj] (18:31):
and it kind of gets me thinking though so if this movie is a flash
back

[Ben] (18:35):
ah

[raj] (18:35):
and a dream something that's just in francis's head would you even have with would
you even have the town clerk and would you even would you even see that
point of view

[Ben] (18:48):
you never know

[raj] (18:48):
yeah

[Ben] (18:49):
it's i mean it's something where it is i think that in many ways

[raj] (18:53):
oh

[Ben] (18:53):
logic is

[raj] (18:54):
h

[Ben] (18:54):
deliberately you know they try to exercise it from the script they try to make
the script not crazy enough where the audience is going to walk out

[raj] (19:04):
h yep

[Ben] (19:05):
crazy enough where you're always kind of disturbed there's an uneasiness

[raj] (19:09):
yep

[Ben] (19:10):
you know when you think about things that were oftentimes done i don't believe this
was done in this case but when

[raj] (19:15):
oh

[Ben] (19:15):
like for example directors will happen actor

[raj] (19:18):
yeah

[Ben] (19:18):
walk backwards and then filment and reverse

[raj] (19:21):
yeah

[Ben] (19:22):
make an uneasy walking forward it's

[raj] (19:24):
oh

[Ben] (19:25):
you get that kind of unsettling

[raj] (19:26):
yeah oh

[Ben] (19:27):
feel about every

[raj] (19:28):
yeah

[Ben] (19:28):
aspect the way people behave the way people move

[raj] (19:32):
yeah

[Ben] (19:32):
the way everything

[raj] (19:34):
oh

[Ben] (19:34):
is you know and again like the lack of any kind of normal structure anywhere
none of it

[raj] (19:43):
yeah

[Ben] (19:44):
yeah you know none of it is there

[raj] (19:46):
ye

[Ben] (19:46):
is absolutely nothing there to be reassuring

[raj] (19:50):
oh

[Ben] (19:50):
it's you know the enormous use of darkness you i mean the fact is you're
in the vision of a madman

[raj] (20:01):
yep

[Ben] (20:02):
wonderfully

[raj] (20:02):
yeah

[Ben] (20:02):
acted out by some amazing actors

[raj] (20:06):
yeah

[Ben] (20:06):
but

[raj] (20:07):
agree i mentioned that earlier i thought dr caligari was the the actor that played
werner cross was amazing

[Ben] (20:14):
well

[raj] (20:14):
in this

[Ben] (20:14):
and

[raj] (20:14):
movie

[Ben] (20:14):
also for example comrade vi who plays caesar

[raj] (20:18):
oh caesar

[Ben] (20:19):
because

[raj] (20:19):
the sleep walker

[Ben] (20:20):
you know this is a guy his

[raj] (20:22):
yeah

[Ben] (20:22):
career you know starts in grey born in germany

[raj] (20:26):
oh

[Ben] (20:27):
you know here he is in in berlin he ends up in britain he becomes
a british is and he ends up in america

[raj] (20:32):
yeah

[Ben] (20:34):
where

[raj] (20:34):
oh

[Ben] (20:34):
he's probably

[raj] (20:35):
yeah

[Ben] (20:35):
most

[raj] (20:35):
oh

[Ben] (20:36):
famous for his rule in casablanca

[raj] (20:40):
oh

[Ben] (20:41):
as

[raj] (20:41):
yah

[Ben] (20:41):
the evil

[raj] (20:42):
yeah

[Ben] (20:42):
s s captain but we

[raj] (20:43):
yeah

[Ben] (20:44):
we got a new cast a blank that's one of my favorite here's also another
movies in

[raj] (20:47):
yeah

[Ben] (20:48):
where it's the man who laughed we talked about actors who were the motivation

[raj] (20:52):
m

[Ben] (20:52):
or comic book characters the guy who plays the plays caesar

[raj] (20:58):
yeah

[Ben] (20:59):
another rule becomes a motivation

[raj] (21:00):
oh

[Ben] (21:00):
for the joker in the batman

[raj] (21:02):
oh

[Ben] (21:02):
series he is this iconic

[raj] (21:04):
oh

[Ben] (21:04):
person who also

[raj] (21:06):
yeah

[Ben] (21:07):
plays more than one igoniciconic character even boris carloff or bella gos very iconic

[raj] (21:15):
oh

[Ben] (21:15):
but

[raj] (21:17):
ah

[Ben] (21:17):
and boris karlov ever played another ionic character he played the ranch and how the
green stole christmas but

[raj] (21:26):
m

[Ben] (21:26):
other than that you know you

[raj] (21:27):
oh

[Ben] (21:27):
know boris girl off in two really iconiccharacters

[raj] (21:31):
oh

[Ben] (21:31):
bello go see well

[raj] (21:33):
oh

[Ben] (21:33):
i suppose the but i mean well even i mean you know he kind of
plays a mad guy

[raj] (21:37):
we

[Ben] (21:38):
in the ed wood movies but you know but in that really

[raj] (21:41):
oh

[Ben] (21:41):
only one iconic character

[raj] (21:45):
oh

[Ben] (21:45):
so they have more than one that's really saying something

[raj] (21:49):
yeah no no he's great as

[Ben] (21:51):
yeah

[raj] (21:51):
caesar he really is and

[Ben] (21:55):
oh

[raj] (21:57):
i mean he really is kind of terrified

[Ben] (21:58):
oh

[raj] (21:58):
even when you first see him at that at the like the review at the
town fair when he when he i think he's like in a coffin

[Ben] (22:07):
well one thing you

[raj] (22:08):
oh

[Ben] (22:08):
know i kind of wondered

[raj] (22:09):
yes

[Ben] (22:10):
when i

[raj] (22:10):
yeah

[Ben] (22:10):
first saw him because when i first saw him my first impression was tim curry
and rocky horror picture show

[raj] (22:19):
yeah

[Ben] (22:20):
and i had to ask i've checked up checked up checked up checked

[raj] (22:24):
yah

[Ben] (22:25):
i haven't found any evidence for this but you got to wonder

[raj] (22:29):
oh

[Ben] (22:30):
if this could have been

[raj] (22:31):
oh

[Ben] (22:31):
motivated tim curry's character in the rocky or picture because there's nobody else who really
dresses quite like tim curry in the rocky

[raj] (22:39):
yeah

[Ben] (22:39):
horror picture show so i don't know if that is just a sheer coincidence but
i have a hard time

[raj] (22:46):
oh

[Ben] (22:46):
believing it's not

[raj] (22:50):
it wouldn't surprise me

[Ben] (22:51):
similarity

[raj] (22:51):
i mean

[Ben] (22:51):
is just

[raj] (22:51):
it was

[Ben] (22:52):
so great and then

[raj] (22:54):
yes

[Ben] (22:54):
again

[raj] (22:54):
yeah

[Ben] (22:54):
there is no other character in the rocky horo picture show who looks like that

[raj] (22:59):
ye

[Ben] (23:00):
m i mean they're all like you know they're all you know flamboyantly you know
dressed you flamboyant make

[raj] (23:07):
oh

[Ben] (23:07):
up but nobody looks like that but you never know you never know

[raj] (23:11):
oh

[Ben] (23:12):
i mean even though if necessarily the actors would know oh

[raj] (23:18):
you know speaking of caesar um so even though dr caligari is a madman evil
doctor you he does take care of cesar you know he houses

[Ben] (23:33):
no

[raj] (23:33):
him he feeds him by the spoon i think like a father would do for
his son

[Ben] (23:38):
yeah

[raj] (23:40):
when the cops come

[Ben] (23:42):
a

[raj] (23:42):
or the authorities com his first instinct is to not let them inside the house
protect him and

[Ben] (23:51):
oh yeah oh

[raj] (23:53):
i okay

[Ben] (23:55):
yes

[raj] (23:56):
it's like

[Ben] (23:57):
m

[raj] (23:58):
he loves him

[Ben] (24:02):
oh we

[raj] (24:05):
so i thought i thought that was just a great scene like you know like
in the house when you when you

[Ben] (24:09):
yeah

[raj] (24:09):
get to see and that's why

[Ben] (24:10):
it's

[raj] (24:10):
go

[Ben] (24:10):
one

[raj] (24:10):
ahead

[Ben] (24:11):
of those scenes where you want you're like oh no the villain is going to
get caught and the way that they create that tends like oh

[raj] (24:21):
so

[Ben] (24:21):
no the

[raj] (24:21):
true

[Ben] (24:22):
villain is going to get caught he's trying to do everything and then

[raj] (24:25):
oh

[Ben] (24:25):
of course now you have a situation where

[raj] (24:28):
oh

[Ben] (24:31):
the cops come in they have their warrant

[raj] (24:32):
oh

[Ben] (24:33):
and they're going to interview this guy the problems that can't

[raj] (24:36):
yeah

[Ben] (24:36):
wake him up and

[raj] (24:38):
oh

[Ben] (24:39):
you know

[raj] (24:41):
yeah

[Ben] (24:42):
it is this very bizarre situation because you wonder if they did open him up
wake him up what would he what would you say
what would he say because again this

[raj] (24:54):
yeah

[Ben] (24:54):
is a guy you can ask

[raj] (24:56):
yeah

[Ben] (24:56):
any questions

[raj] (24:57):
oh

[Ben] (25:00):
yep

[raj] (25:00):
you know when you bring up a good point actually

[Ben] (25:03):
m

[raj] (25:04):
just to just backing up a little bit i'll be honest with you i was
actually when the cops came over to dr calegari'shous i was on the side of
dr caligari i didn't want him to get caught

[Ben] (25:16):
no

[raj] (25:17):
no

[Ben] (25:18):
oh

[raj] (25:19):
you know and we don't know for sure obviously he's the evil guy but we
don't know

[Ben] (25:23):
what

[raj] (25:23):
for sure that he

[Ben] (25:24):
i actually kind of wonder because it seems so convolutent if maybe there would be

[raj] (25:27):
m

[Ben] (25:27):
a twist maybe there was some other killer and you do get that especially when
they start chasing

[raj] (25:33):
yeah

[Ben] (25:33):
another killer and that guy and that guy is clearly

[raj] (25:38):
yeah

[Ben] (25:38):
evil that guy

[raj] (25:40):
oh

[Ben] (25:40):
you're like oh what

[raj] (25:43):
yeah

[Ben] (25:43):
i

[raj] (25:44):
no

[Ben] (25:44):
now

[raj] (25:44):
no he is truly evil and even he even admits he's like okay yeah i
did try to kill the old woman

[Ben] (25:51):
yeah

[raj] (25:51):
but i didn't kill the other two people i just

[Ben] (25:54):
so i can go now

[raj] (25:54):
use the same murder weapon

[Ben] (25:55):
yeah

[raj] (25:56):
just so you guys wouldn't find me

[Ben] (25:58):
yeah

[raj] (26:03):
i forgot about that scene that was just let the people know that we were
supposed

[Ben] (26:08):
oh

[raj] (26:08):
to do this pod last week but we both of our schedules got a little
bit busy so yeah

[Ben] (26:13):
it was

[raj] (26:13):
you're

[Ben] (26:13):
all

[raj] (26:13):
just

[Ben] (26:13):
supposed

[raj] (26:14):
bringing

[Ben] (26:14):
to be

[raj] (26:14):
up

[Ben] (26:14):
before

[raj] (26:14):
some scenes

[Ben] (26:14):
hall lean we had two movies lined up and none of them got done but

[raj] (26:18):
yeah well helloeiza it's a tough holiday to it's a

[Ben] (26:23):
oh

[raj] (26:24):
isy weekend but

[Ben] (26:26):
yeah

[raj] (26:27):
yeah that was i forgot about that and i'm glad you brought that up and
you're right

[Ben] (26:31):
oh

[raj] (26:32):
it's like even as the audience we don't know dr caligari but there's got to
be something said like i actually felt for dr caligari seeing him get laughed at
by the town clerk no it was just like i already had the sympathy for
him

[Ben] (26:45):
oh

[raj] (26:47):
and now they have the cops and francis after him

[Ben] (26:51):
the

[raj] (26:51):
and

[Ben] (26:51):
other

[raj] (26:51):
i'm

[Ben] (26:52):
thing

[raj] (26:52):
just

[Ben] (26:52):
is also

[raj] (26:52):
like

[Ben] (26:52):
when francis sits up all night with calgary watching you know what he believes is
caesar lying

[raj] (26:59):
a

[Ben] (26:59):
in the coffin and the cabinet is technically the cabinet and you said and

[raj] (27:04):
yeah

[Ben] (27:04):
he's like no it couldn't have been here i i

[raj] (27:06):
oh

[Ben] (27:06):
watched them they didn't go anywhere all night they stayed

[raj] (27:09):
yeah

[Ben] (27:09):
there all night he's got the he's got he is the alibi he is the
alibi for his friend's

[raj] (27:16):
yeah

[Ben] (27:16):
killer

[raj] (27:16):
yeah yeah i mean francis does

[Ben] (27:20):
yeah

[raj] (27:21):
an old fashioned stake out

[Ben] (27:22):
yeah nothing wrong with that

[raj] (27:25):
nothing wrong

[Ben] (27:25):
nothing

[raj] (27:25):
with that

[Ben] (27:26):
creepy

[raj] (27:26):
end

[Ben] (27:26):
like nothing creepy about sitting outside somebody's window

[raj] (27:29):
oh

[Ben] (27:29):
watching him all night long

[raj] (27:32):
no very creepy but he's not a cop we actually don't even know what francis
does

[Ben] (27:35):
yeah

[raj] (27:36):
but hey if that's good old like detective work though or investigated work you know
you do it take out and but

[Ben] (27:48):
yeah

[raj] (27:49):
what's great like during the stake out

[Ben] (27:51):
yes

[raj] (27:51):
it flashes to the scene where you see caesar

[Ben] (27:55):
yeah

[raj] (27:57):
uh

[Ben] (27:58):
oh

[raj] (27:59):
and the cesar's going out and enters jane's home and tries to kill her then
he instead of killing her he decides to abduct her and then he's getting chased
by the the angry mob and i love how the angry mob like uh just
like in the movie that we saw a fan of the opera

[Ben] (28:20):
oh

[raj] (28:20):
they're there they're out there seeking justice

[Ben] (28:23):
oh

[raj] (28:24):
oh

[Ben] (28:26):
i mean he face the hook you know you live in a small town not
a lot happens you don't want to let an angry mob go because who knows
when you're going to get that chance again

[raj] (28:38):
yeah and not only that like if you lived in that small town it's a
small town you may have arguments

[Ben] (28:44):
okay

[raj] (28:45):
and enemies within that town but any outsider that comes in and s is with
what of your

[Ben] (28:51):
oh

[raj] (28:52):
community

[Ben] (28:53):
oh

[raj] (28:54):
you're going to gang up and get him

[Ben] (28:55):
yeah oh yeah

[raj] (29:00):
i like the use of the fake doll the manikin of cesar to fake out
the cops because when when

[Ben] (29:06):
yeah

[raj] (29:07):
when francis goes back and finds out that jane was abducted and now she's recovering
was like oh no it couldn't have been caesar dr caligari

[Ben] (29:18):
or could

[raj] (29:18):
i watched

[Ben] (29:19):
it

[raj] (29:19):
them all night

[Ben] (29:21):
oh

[raj] (29:22):
and so they went when he went to the house and then they had a
warrant

[Ben] (29:27):
yep

[raj] (29:28):
yeah and when

[Ben] (29:29):
yeah

[raj] (29:30):
they opened up the the crate and they find out the doll um i like
how dr caligory just kind of like

[Ben] (29:38):
oh

[raj] (29:39):
ran right out of there

[Ben] (29:40):
yeah

[raj] (29:41):
yeah

[Ben] (29:41):
yeah

[raj] (29:43):
and straight to the asylum

[Ben] (29:45):
well yeah they jason well he's only being chased by one portion at that point
and

[raj] (29:50):
is it francis

[Ben] (29:51):
yeah and so france is the only one who season go in there

[raj] (29:54):
yeah

[Ben] (29:54):
francis runs in there convinced the doctor is

[raj] (29:56):
yeah

[Ben] (29:57):
that in fact the the respected

[raj] (29:59):
oh

[Ben] (29:59):
head of the institution is insane

[raj] (30:02):
oh

[Ben] (30:02):
with almost no effort at all

[raj] (30:05):
uh

[Ben] (30:07):
oh

[raj] (30:07):
uh oh yeah yeah like the the doctors at the at the sad totally take
francis for his word at it

[Ben] (30:16):
yeah what's

[raj] (30:17):
oh

[Ben] (30:17):
not to trust

[raj] (30:19):
h yeah

[Ben] (30:22):
m

[raj] (30:23):
hey so can we talk about the n c unless there's any other seeds you
wanted to

[Ben] (30:26):
um

[raj] (30:26):
talk about

[Ben] (30:27):
let's see

[raj] (30:28):
yeah

[Ben] (30:28):
the unseen yeah well we can talk about the unseen

[raj] (30:31):
so so then we find out then we see france

[Ben] (30:35):
what

[raj] (30:35):
it flashes back to the present you know

[Ben] (30:38):
yeah

[raj] (30:40):
and you see francis talking to the old band and then all of a sudden
francis seize caesar

[Ben] (30:46):
yeah awake

[raj] (30:48):
and he's awake he's not sleep walking

[Ben] (30:50):
and

[raj] (30:51):
oh

[Ben] (30:51):
and smiling

[raj] (30:53):
smiling

[Ben] (30:54):
and strikes him he

[raj] (30:55):
oh

[Ben] (30:55):
is this kind of gentle character and he seems almost to be in love which
you now show him displaying emotions you never seen him display before and then you're
starting now i couldn't tell who else was there

[raj] (31:11):
jane is there

[Ben] (31:11):
jane yeah i'm in jane's there obviously but i mean for example i didn't see
whether allen was there or

[raj] (31:17):
yeah

[Ben] (31:18):
anybody else who would because i was kind of wondering you know how what what
is the character of allen because he is his friend he's obviously important and so
i was looking but i couldn't be sure you know one of the problems of
film quality is an one of the characters cs because

[raj] (31:38):
i don't recall seeing alan there and obviously they never brought it up so if
he was there

[Ben] (31:43):
yeah

[raj] (31:44):
yeah

[Ben] (31:44):
yeah

[raj] (31:45):
we would have to go back and find it but it can also leave open
to maybe that francis's story

[Ben] (31:52):
oh

[raj] (31:53):
it's real

[Ben] (31:54):
oh

[raj] (31:56):
allen really is dad

[Ben] (31:58):
uh maybe well maybe

[raj] (32:02):
and

[Ben] (32:02):
or maybe francis killed allan

[raj] (32:05):
yeah

[Ben] (32:05):
maybe

[raj] (32:06):
well

[Ben] (32:06):
that's why he's in the asylum

[raj] (32:09):
well that's what i was kind of thinking was

[Ben] (32:11):
yeah

[raj] (32:11):
what if there are no good guys even the director who really is ecretly dr
caligari because when he sees the director

[Ben] (32:21):
oh

[raj] (32:22):
the asylum could walk out and francis like oh that's dr caligari i think he
attacks him right

[Ben] (32:27):
yeah

[raj] (32:29):
and then the security and other people commonly separate the two and then they restrain
francis and then you see the director

[Ben] (32:40):
oh

[raj] (32:41):
and he's dressed differently and kind of like you were mention he's like is that
dr caligari

[Ben] (32:45):
you can't

[raj] (32:45):
i think

[Ben] (32:46):
tell

[raj] (32:46):
it

[Ben] (32:46):
until

[raj] (32:46):
is

[Ben] (32:46):
he put

[raj] (32:46):
but

[Ben] (32:46):
his glasses on

[raj] (32:48):
yeah you really and so he puts all his glasses on and then he says

[Ben] (32:51):
oh

[raj] (32:52):
oh i understand

[Ben] (32:54):
oh

[raj] (32:54):
this francis's delusion

[Ben] (32:56):
oh

[raj] (32:57):
and i think i could cure up

[Ben] (32:59):
oh

[raj] (32:59):
and i think he puts his glasses off as he says that and then the
film turns into a circle narrowing his face and the look on his face was
like oh

[Ben] (33:10):
oh

[raj] (33:13):
maybe this director is not a good guy he kind of gave the dr caligari
look

[Ben] (33:18):
well

[raj] (33:19):
and does

[Ben] (33:19):
he is

[raj] (33:19):
he mean by curing them oh i'm sorry go ahead

[Ben] (33:22):
well i got the sense that actually

[raj] (33:24):
oh

[Ben] (33:24):
you know maybe he can

[raj] (33:28):
oh you're more optimistic than i can't i am so you're thinking he could cure
of and i'm thinking he's going to go back to his old eighteenth century books

[Ben] (33:38):
oh

[raj] (33:39):
make france is his

[Ben] (33:40):
oh

[raj] (33:40):
new caesar

[Ben] (33:41):
oh

[raj] (33:44):
and they came into a sleep walker and then start committing murders around town

[Ben] (33:48):
m
m

[raj] (33:52):
he has found his caesar and it's francis

[Ben] (33:54):
well could it be that maybe allan is not dead could it be that allen
was in the asylum is now cured and outside living a normal life ye

[raj] (34:05):
and now francis would be like that would be just like allen

[Ben] (34:09):
well francis all francis knows is that his friend

[raj] (34:12):
oh

[Ben] (34:12):
is no more
who knows i mean that's the thing about it is like

[raj] (34:19):
yeah i who knows

[Ben] (34:20):
who knows

[raj] (34:20):
well i guess just from i guess from the creepy look that dr caligari gives
at the end i'm just thinking like oh

[Ben] (34:28):
oh

[raj] (34:29):
he is down going to make francis

[Ben] (34:31):
ah

[raj] (34:31):
a sleep walker

[Ben] (34:32):
yeah

[raj] (34:33):
burger sleep walker ah ye

[Ben] (34:37):
or

[raj] (34:38):
but you know what i do like your optimism and see it good in people

[Ben] (34:42):
oh i got to say i do i do i do i want to see
the best in people oh

[raj] (34:50):
even in this mad bizarre world that the d the cabinet

[Ben] (34:54):
yeah

[raj] (34:54):
of dr caligari takes place

[Ben] (34:56):
i mean i mean and the other thing i do look at is like i
couldn't find allen

[raj] (35:00):
oh

[Ben] (35:00):
you never really see the cork well enough to see if he among the patients
you just never do

[raj] (35:08):
you know the other thing

[Ben] (35:09):
oh

[raj] (35:09):
is that a little outdoor or the

[Ben] (35:13):
oh

[raj] (35:13):
area in the asylum when it flashes back to the present

[Ben] (35:17):
yeah

[raj] (35:19):
that's kind of like a normal looking set

[Ben] (35:21):
yeah

[raj] (35:22):
so it's not like we're not in this like bizarre weirld world that

[Ben] (35:28):
yeah

[raj] (35:29):
we thought was reality but really was just all francis as had

[Ben] (35:32):
i mean it's it's it's the sanest scene in the whole

[raj] (35:35):
yeah

[Ben] (35:36):
man that's the irony the insane asylum scene is the sanest scene it is the
least distorted est insane

[raj] (35:45):
even from the outside the building is

[Ben] (35:47):
oh

[raj] (35:47):
normal it's not all slanted or crooked the windows are i think the normal the
the director's office

[Ben] (35:54):
yeah

[raj] (35:55):
is well proportioned like

[Ben] (35:57):
o

[raj] (35:57):
everything is just like it would be in real life but everything

[Ben] (36:00):
yeah

[raj] (36:01):
that was in francis's head

[Ben] (36:02):
oh

[raj] (36:03):
look like some sort of like

[Ben] (36:04):
yeah

[raj] (36:05):
bizarre world of a guard

[Ben] (36:07):
ah

[raj] (36:07):
type of pity yeah

[Ben] (36:09):
yeah i mean

[raj] (36:13):
all right

[Ben] (36:13):
i can't argue

[raj] (36:13):
you

[Ben] (36:13):
with

[raj] (36:13):
have

[Ben] (36:14):
any

[raj] (36:14):
convince

[Ben] (36:14):
of that

[raj] (36:14):
fi

[Ben] (36:15):
and but that's

[raj] (36:16):
that

[Ben] (36:16):
also

[raj] (36:16):
is kind

[Ben] (36:16):
when

[raj] (36:16):
of

[Ben] (36:17):
you

[raj] (36:17):
brilliant

[Ben] (36:17):
get to see okay

[raj] (36:18):
yeah

[Ben] (36:19):
maybe um oh god i'm banking on her name is

[raj] (36:24):
j

[Ben] (36:24):
jane you know you your first impression you sorrily dramatized but then

[raj] (36:31):
yes

[Ben] (36:31):
the first time you really get to see her speak and you realize that she
is freaking out of her mind she is in a delusional

[raj] (36:41):
oh

[Ben] (36:42):
world and her delusional world is completely different from his she is in her own
completely delusional world and it has nothing to do there's nobody getting killed that looks
like there's no abduction

[raj] (36:56):
m

[Ben] (36:56):
there's no carnivals she is a princess

[raj] (36:58):
yeah

[Ben] (36:59):
and she is fulfilling her

[raj] (37:00):
a

[Ben] (37:00):
regal

[raj] (37:00):
queen

[Ben] (37:01):
duties

[raj] (37:02):
yeah

[Ben] (37:03):
you know and she she's her complete own delusion which he can't see because he's
in his own delusion he somehow things

[raj] (37:12):
yeah

[Ben] (37:12):
that you know she's in his world

[raj] (37:14):
yeah

[Ben] (37:15):
and he's not

[raj] (37:16):
oh

[Ben] (37:16):
i don't know i mean to a certain extent it seems like she thinks and

[raj] (37:20):
yeah

[Ben] (37:21):
he is in her world like some suitor may be a prince from a far
away land who's

[raj] (37:25):
yeah

[Ben] (37:26):
you know you never know how she

[raj] (37:27):
oh

[Ben] (37:27):
sees him simply that she says that they can't be together

[raj] (37:33):
oh

[Ben] (37:36):
but i mean you know i really do think that you know my impression is
that you know this has all been the crazy delusion

[raj] (37:45):
yeah

[Ben] (37:45):
in his mind and that is it's all

[raj] (37:49):
yeah

[Ben] (37:49):
that's all there is to it

[raj] (37:50):
yeah

[Ben] (37:53):
you see

[raj] (37:55):
yeah

[Ben] (37:55):
you see and like it's one

[raj] (37:56):
yeah

[Ben] (37:56):
of the tins where when you re watch it having watched it and knowing what's
going on you start to see francis's

[raj] (38:01):
yeah

[Ben] (38:02):
insanity his anerisms even when you're thinking he's sane

[raj] (38:09):
i'm going to have to re watch this movie again i might i might let
it sit for a while before we watch it

[Ben] (38:15):
oh

[raj] (38:15):
but

[Ben] (38:15):
yeah i mean this would

[raj] (38:16):
i think

[Ben] (38:16):
be a good

[raj] (38:16):
but

[Ben] (38:16):
halloween

[raj] (38:17):
i think

[Ben] (38:17):
movie

[raj] (38:18):
i think i would probably pick up some things

[Ben] (38:20):
eh

[raj] (38:20):
that i didn't notice the first time i only watched this when we did this
when you suggested this movie i haven't seen it before so this this was the
first time i saw uh

[Ben] (38:29):
yeah

[raj] (38:30):
uh it was a great choice at the movie did not disappoint ye

[Ben] (38:34):
well i'm glad always glad when things don't disappoint

[raj] (38:39):
you have a you

[Ben] (38:40):
yeah

[raj] (38:40):
have a good taste in films

[Ben] (38:41):
well actually i actually had recommended this

[raj] (38:44):
oh

[Ben] (38:44):
i think i may have watched maybe the first scene

[raj] (38:47):
oh

[Ben] (38:47):
and that's when i said oh we should do this

[raj] (38:51):
yeah

[Ben] (38:52):
but

[raj] (38:52):
yeah

[Ben] (38:53):
yeah it is an amazing movie it can't

[raj] (38:56):
ye

[Ben] (38:56):
beat the sets i guess you could there was a there was a hitchcock movie
where salvador dolly

[raj] (39:05):
i've seen that

[Ben] (39:06):
design

[raj] (39:06):
movie

[Ben] (39:06):
the

[raj] (39:07):
it is

[Ben] (39:07):
try no

[raj] (39:07):
one

[Ben] (39:07):
remember

[raj] (39:07):
of the

[Ben] (39:07):
what it was but other than that

[raj] (39:09):
it is i'll look it up right now it is one of the

[Ben] (39:11):
oh

[raj] (39:13):
most different h hitchcock movies i've ve ever seen

[Ben] (39:18):
because that's not really

[raj] (39:18):
spell

[Ben] (39:18):
a style

[raj] (39:19):
bound

[Ben] (39:19):
the dream sequence isn't really a

[raj] (39:20):
oh

[Ben] (39:20):
hitchcock thing

[raj] (39:22):
the spell bound

[Ben] (39:23):
spell bound

[raj] (39:25):
yeah very good movie very tricky movie

[Ben] (39:29):
yeah

[raj] (39:30):
unlike any other hitchcock movie i've ever seen ye

[Ben] (39:35):
yeah i've

[raj] (39:36):
uh

[Ben] (39:36):
actually never seen it i've actually never seen it i actually on know about it
from reading about

[raj] (39:40):
oh

[Ben] (39:40):
sounder dolly

[raj] (39:41):
well worth the watch and if you're a hitchcock fan which i think you are
you would enjoy the movie ah

[Ben] (39:49):
so yeah let's

[raj] (39:51):
ye

[Ben] (39:51):
see is there anything else to this you think

[raj] (39:54):
i have nothing else to say you you were doing some research on on i
m d b if you wanted to bring up some stuff the one thing i
wanted to tell you was just for reading the wikopedia page

[Ben] (40:05):
yeah

[raj] (40:05):
fritz lang the great director

[Ben] (40:08):
okay

[raj] (40:08):
who directed a metropole metropolis

[Ben] (40:12):
metropolis

[raj] (40:13):
sorry petropolis thank you

[Ben] (40:15):
fromnfrnmond

[raj] (40:16):
he was actually and he was actually

[Ben] (40:22):
m

[raj] (40:22):
slated to direct this but because of schedule conflict he had to drop

[Ben] (40:25):
well

[raj] (40:25):
out

[Ben] (40:26):
one thing you will

[raj] (40:26):
and

[Ben] (40:26):
notice is that there's a number of people some minor actors not

[raj] (40:30):
oh

[Ben] (40:30):
the major ones but the minor

[raj] (40:31):
yeah

[Ben] (40:31):
ones also did movies with fritz lang you could tell

[raj] (40:35):
oh

[Ben] (40:36):
that this was very much the same acting circuits i don't know how the studio
system worked in you know in germany compared to hollywood but you know for example
in holywood you had one brother actors n

[raj] (40:47):
yeah

[Ben] (40:47):
had united artists actors and you had universal actors and m g m actors and
they

[raj] (40:54):
oh

[Ben] (40:54):
tended to be very long term contracts and so you didn't see them move

[raj] (40:59):
oh

[Ben] (40:59):
apart a lot but

[raj] (41:03):
yes

[Ben] (41:03):
i don't know if that was the same way it worked in germany but

[raj] (41:06):
oh

[Ben] (41:06):
there are it's

[raj] (41:07):
yeah

[Ben] (41:07):
not just the actors who are connected here

[raj] (41:11):
yeah

[Ben] (41:12):
actually i will say a few things a lot of this is based on the
writer's um you know care mayer's ideas current layers he himself pleaded insanity try to
feign insanity to avoid service in over one the scene where caesar predicts the future
of allen is actually somewhat based on a fortune or who in this case predicted

(41:37):
that he would survive the war which he did like but could you know it's
probably thinking well what would they have done if the fortune teller predicted i was
going to die before the next day and but a lot of this is actually
based on his own experiences and his own thoughts his own feelings about authority is
not just the clerk who sits on these high chairs but also the police ficers

(42:00):
sit on these really high chairs and where so that they looked down on anybody
who comes in um you know there's a

[raj] (42:08):
ye

[Ben] (42:08):
distinct kind of not liking authority

[raj] (42:11):
yeah

[Ben] (42:12):
not

[raj] (42:12):
oh

[Ben] (42:12):
liking crowds

[raj] (42:14):
ye

[Ben] (42:16):
you know whether the

[raj] (42:17):
yep

[Ben] (42:17):
authority is the doctor or the authorities the police or that crazy town

[raj] (42:20):
yah

[Ben] (42:20):
clerk

[raj] (42:23):
h yeah

[Ben] (42:25):
but a good movie really good movie

[raj] (42:29):
yeah no it is definitely is

[Ben] (42:32):
yeah

[raj] (42:32):
yeah so i don't have much else to add on the movie do you have
anything else you wanted to say

[Ben] (42:37):
well one of the things that really dustrike me was

[raj] (42:39):
kay

[Ben] (42:39):
you know postware germany an a lot of money to work with these sets

[raj] (42:42):
yeah

[Ben] (42:43):
in these sets are incredibly

[raj] (42:45):
oh

[Ben] (42:45):
frugal they were really working now

[raj] (42:49):
yeah

[Ben] (42:49):
dirt

[raj] (42:49):
oh

[Ben] (42:49):
cheap but at the same time fritz lang is also making movies at the same
time

[raj] (42:55):
h yeah

[Ben] (42:56):
and his sets are amazing

[raj] (42:58):
oh

[Ben] (43:00):
oh

[raj] (43:01):
yep

[Ben] (43:02):
now a lot of those were also

[raj] (43:03):
oh

[Ben] (43:04):
you know made with wooden stuff like that but there is such a difference and
it really kind of strikes

[raj] (43:09):
yeah

[Ben] (43:09):
me as why is that

[raj] (43:13):
oh

[Ben] (43:14):
and

[raj] (43:14):
yeah

[Ben] (43:14):
again you know i do not know i mean there's so

[raj] (43:17):
yeah

[Ben] (43:17):
often you know so much of this has been lost men this is berlin after

[raj] (43:21):
yeah yeah

[Ben] (43:21):
we were one they didn't have a huge amount of money they weren't making

[raj] (43:24):
yeah

[Ben] (43:24):
huge numbers of copies of their scripts and stuff like that and then also

[raj] (43:27):
yeah

[Ben] (43:27):
a huge amount of stuff was just simply lost well were to this is berlin

[raj] (43:32):
oh

[Ben] (43:32):
it fell under the soviet side the soviet probably weren't were not all that interested
in you know trying to maintain this

[raj] (43:38):
yeah

[Ben] (43:38):
so a lot of

[raj] (43:39):
oh

[Ben] (43:39):
people would have probably who had worked on this who could have told the list
of what happened behind the scene were probably

[raj] (43:44):
uh

[Ben] (43:44):
behind the red curtain or behind the iron curtain

[raj] (43:47):
yeah

[Ben] (43:47):
and stayed there until they died so there's a lot of stuff where it's just
we don't know we don't know as far as what's going on beyond the scenes
some of the actors did escape you know westward so they could tell their story
but you know probably large numbers of people who could have answered

[raj] (44:04):
oh

[Ben] (44:04):
these questions simply weren't in positions to answer any questions
oh

[raj] (44:15):
well you

[Ben] (44:16):
yeah

[raj] (44:16):
were mentioning about like the lack of money and stuff like that and so

[Ben] (44:20):
oh

[raj] (44:20):
they had to take some cut some corners on the design but i think it
works for its benefit though

[Ben] (44:25):
i think it did

[raj] (44:25):
so oh

[Ben] (44:27):
you know but i mean is one of the things where you're reading that a
lot of it was just because of the budget but on the other hand you
know fritz lane

[raj] (44:34):
yeah

[Ben] (44:36):
his budget you know his movies the budgets now he now fritz lang was a
master of creating tiny models

[raj] (44:42):
oh

[Ben] (44:43):
create enormous

[raj] (44:44):
oh

[Ben] (44:44):
scenes i mean he does metropolis he does it in fralamond and

[raj] (44:49):
yeah

[Ben] (44:50):
you know he was a master of that ability to miniturize things

[raj] (44:53):
yes

[Ben] (44:53):
and make it completely convincing but

[raj] (44:57):
yep

[Ben] (44:57):
even still

[raj] (45:00):
yeah

[Ben] (45:00):
the difference

[raj] (45:01):
yeah oh

[Ben] (45:04):
between fritz lang set and the fritz laying is just amazing

[raj] (45:10):
i think

[Ben] (45:11):
oh

[raj] (45:12):
if fritz lang direct this movie would

[Ben] (45:13):
oh

[raj] (45:13):
have been a different movie i think the camera would have moved more

[Ben] (45:17):
yeah

[raj] (45:18):
uh

[Ben] (45:19):
yeah

[raj] (45:19):
i mean obviously like

[Ben] (45:21):
yeah

[raj] (45:22):
fritz lang is a master craftsman you know just

[Ben] (45:25):
yes

[raj] (45:26):
way ahead of his time

[Ben] (45:28):
a

[raj] (45:28):
uh

[Ben] (45:29):
yeah

[raj] (45:29):
kind of like hitchcock before hitchcock and so i think the movie would have been
a more suspenseful and maybe even like

[Ben] (45:37):
yeah

[raj] (45:37):
have a ittle bit more realism

[Ben] (45:39):
yeah i mean now the thing is and now at no point in a ritzlaying
movie do you ever get the sense like it's it's fictional i'm trying to remember

[raj] (45:48):
yes

[Ben] (45:48):
there was a fritzlang movie

[raj] (45:49):
yeah

[Ben] (45:49):
after you left germany went to

[raj] (45:50):
yeah

[Ben] (45:51):
free it's

[raj] (45:51):
oh

[Ben] (45:52):
this the one where the guy

[raj] (45:54):
yeah

[Ben] (45:55):
spends this period of time in hell hoping for forgiveness but even even in that
the visions of heaven and hell is their buracricies and so on no it's it's
like you know heaven is still a work place there are forms

[raj] (46:09):
yeah

[Ben] (46:09):
that need to be filled out and there's all this other stuff i mean fritz
line even in a fantasy

[raj] (46:16):
okay

[Ben] (46:17):
you know how fit realism gets in everywhere yeah i mean it just gets in
everywhere with it like where is this realism has really been shoved out it's been
purged from every last corner of every last frame except at the very end where

(46:38):
you the reveal is you're in an asinus

[raj] (46:40):
oh

[Ben] (46:41):
and finally for the first time you

[raj] (46:43):
a

[Ben] (46:43):
see clearly

[raj] (46:45):
oh
you know i wonder if like a guy like charlie coffman the writer and director
i wonder if he was been influenced by this movie

[Ben] (46:56):
a lot of people have

[raj] (46:57):
of

[Ben] (46:58):
this

[raj] (46:58):
oh

[Ben] (46:58):
is apparently one of the big influences

[raj] (47:00):
yeah

[Ben] (47:00):
on curacorsala was

[raj] (47:04):
oh

[Ben] (47:04):
i mean i hope that's

[raj] (47:05):
the

[Ben] (47:05):
it

[raj] (47:05):
great

[Ben] (47:06):
i've

[raj] (47:06):
japanese

[Ben] (47:06):
actually been

[raj] (47:06):
director

[Ben] (47:06):
researching two movies at the same time

[raj] (47:08):
oh

[Ben] (47:08):
so but memory serves

[raj] (47:10):
oh

[Ben] (47:10):
it was a big influence on

[raj] (47:11):
yeah

[Ben] (47:11):
a career saga this is

[raj] (47:14):
oh

[Ben] (47:15):
also robert ever really thought it was an amazing movie

[raj] (47:20):
oh yeah i did see robert he called it the first true horror movie

[Ben] (47:24):
well i would actually say

[raj] (47:26):
oh

[Ben] (47:26):
i mean it's still after edison's frankenstein edison's frankenstein beats it by

[raj] (47:31):
ye

[Ben] (47:32):
ten years

[raj] (47:33):
got it

[Ben] (47:34):
so and that is still very much a horror movie with one amazing

[raj] (47:38):
yeah

[Ben] (47:39):
scene right in the middle

[raj] (47:40):
oh

[Ben] (47:42):
which by the way we can do it at some point but you know that's
it's going to be a very short podcast is only a twenty minute movie but

[raj] (47:50):
uh you know what i wouldn't i wouldn't put that prediction out we have done
a couple of podcasts where we've lapped

[Ben] (47:58):
oh

[raj] (48:00):
ruddy type of the movie

[Ben] (48:02):
well

[raj] (48:05):
we

[Ben] (48:05):
it's

[raj] (48:05):
have done

[Ben] (48:05):
like

[raj] (48:05):
it before especially especially if there's a lot of stuff to talk about

[Ben] (48:08):
look if you don't have the time to sit through the podcast just go watch
the movie

[raj] (48:15):
well we don't have a big podcast but we do have our fans and

[Ben] (48:20):
ah

[raj] (48:20):
so i'm sure they'll enjoy it

[Ben] (48:22):
oh there's actually one other thing apparently

[raj] (48:26):
is

[Ben] (48:27):
the appearance

[raj] (48:28):
oh

[Ben] (48:28):
of dr cowgariis

[raj] (48:29):
yeah

[Ben] (48:29):
actually based on the german philosopher shopenhawer now by the way schopenhower is one of
these guys who talks about the triumph you know of mind over matter and so
clearly there's the

[raj] (48:43):
yeah

[Ben] (48:44):
influence there where

[raj] (48:44):
yeah

[Ben] (48:44):
you got this guy who's thinking about mind over matter

[raj] (48:47):
yeah oh

[Ben] (48:47):
it's also interesting because i'm sure probably unknown to the director

[raj] (48:50):
oh

[Ben] (48:50):
at the time shopenhouris also this huge influence on hitler and so for example later

[raj] (48:57):
yeah

[Ben] (48:57):
on there's a very famous propaganda film triumph of the will by wennyrefinstall

[raj] (49:03):
oh

[Ben] (49:05):
um

[raj] (49:06):
my oh

[Ben] (49:07):
so i mean

[raj] (49:09):
oh

[Ben] (49:10):
you you know

[raj] (49:11):
oh

[Ben] (49:11):
both both actors or both

[raj] (49:14):
ah

[Ben] (49:14):
directors are definitely

[raj] (49:15):
oh

[Ben] (49:15):
kind of drinking from the same philosophical

[raj] (49:20):
oh yeah

[Ben] (49:24):
inspiration as it were

[raj] (49:26):
yeah

[Ben] (49:27):
although frankly i think the best jopenhour reference in a movie is still roberta

[raj] (49:30):
yeah

[Ben] (49:30):
banim and life is beautiful

[raj] (49:35):
see the reference

[Ben] (49:36):
well it's like you know him and his friend you know they've traveled to rome
they're sharing a hotel room so they have to share a bed and um and
his friend is saying show up and our stuff and re basically using shopenhower's mind
over matter thing

[raj] (49:49):
yeah

[Ben] (49:49):
to put himself to sleep he's just like saying you know shopenhower says you just
guys say sleep sleep sleep sleep and it will become reality and your sleep will
become reality and our ridiobrtbe is let me try that and he turns to his
friend

[raj] (50:02):
oh

[Ben] (50:02):
away away away away at the like what

[raj] (50:05):
right

[Ben] (50:06):
is like ain't worked it works chopenhower it worked

[raj] (50:09):
oh

[Ben] (50:09):
and he will use schopenhower again shopenhowr shopenhower shopenhower

[raj] (50:13):
yeah

[Ben] (50:13):
but this time it's always he's trying to do something

[raj] (50:17):
yeah

[Ben] (50:17):
wonderful it's almost like he wheels that magic again and again to get the woman
who will some day be his wife nicotabrosi to look at him chopenhow or shopenhow
r turning

[raj] (50:28):
oh

[Ben] (50:28):
around turning around or when he tries to get remember when his son is hiding
in the box in the german century with the guard dog you know the dog
is going right towards where

[raj] (50:38):
yeah

[Ben] (50:38):
this on is and he's like chopenhower chopenhourshopen or wheeling the dog

[raj] (50:43):
h

[Ben] (50:43):
away from his son and saving

[raj] (50:44):
h

[Ben] (50:45):
his life you know and it's you

[raj] (50:47):
oh

[Ben] (50:47):
know there's there's the other shopenhour reference which isn't over long pause if one

[raj] (50:51):
oh

[Ben] (50:52):
but i mean even you know but beniti also would have known

[raj] (50:55):
oh

[Ben] (50:55):
that shopenhower was this kind of influence n

[raj] (50:59):
oh

[Ben] (51:00):
the hilarian movement both

[raj] (51:02):
yeah

[Ben] (51:02):
in reality and also on film there's no white vanini doesn't know that

[raj] (51:08):
no i'm sure he does and i don't want to get too much into it
but there's a great youtubeayoutube video out there where

[Ben] (51:15):
yeah

[raj] (51:16):
vanini

[Ben] (51:16):
yeah

[raj] (51:16):
and his wife are being interviewed and they talk about how much research

[Ben] (51:21):
yeah

[raj] (51:22):
they do when they

[Ben] (51:23):
yeah

[raj] (51:23):
write and make a movie so

[Ben] (51:27):
well they get great results

[raj] (51:30):
yeah definitely so i don't really have much more else to add we're kind of
getting almost to the hour mark fifty one minutes is there anything else you wanted
to bring up

[Ben] (51:39):
how do you think rebertobanini and his wife interview or did research to make johnny
stakin

[raj] (51:45):
well that was the video i don't want to get too far

[Ben] (51:47):
okay

[raj] (51:47):
into

[Ben] (51:47):
okay

[raj] (51:47):
it

[Ben] (51:47):
never mind never mind

[raj] (51:49):
no but i will mention i sent you the video the video is one hour
long so it's a you know you got to have the time to watch it
but actually that video

[Ben] (51:58):
m

[raj] (51:58):
is actually about

[Ben] (52:00):
oh

[raj] (52:00):
johnny casita and how much they like went over every joke in that movie to
make sure that it wasn't a wasted joke did it contribute to the plot of
the movie i contribute to the character s of the movie

[Ben] (52:13):
by the way we

[raj] (52:14):
and

[Ben] (52:14):
get a podcast

[raj] (52:14):
it was

[Ben] (52:15):
on this if

[raj] (52:15):
yeah

[Ben] (52:15):
if you are interested you're getting

[raj] (52:17):
yeah

[Ben] (52:17):
close to the end of this podcast and if you're looking for another podcast

[raj] (52:21):
yeah

[Ben] (52:21):
that you would like to listen to i would recommend johnny ticking o

[raj] (52:26):
i totally agree and you can watch that movie on youtubesactually a very hard movie
to find um and the only version of it you can find is on youtube
it's not in the best resolution quality but

[Ben] (52:42):
it's better than

[raj] (52:43):
it's

[Ben] (52:43):
the b

[raj] (52:43):
just where this movie

[Ben] (52:44):
s tape

[raj] (52:44):
is hard to

[Ben] (52:44):
i

[raj] (52:44):
find

[Ben] (52:44):
got you know

[raj] (52:45):
oh yeah for the folks that are listening the v h s tape was something
that old guys used to watch movies from a long

[Ben] (52:55):
they're

[raj] (52:55):
time

[Ben] (52:55):
great

[raj] (52:55):
ago

[Ben] (52:55):
paper weights too if you are

[raj] (52:58):
so

[Ben] (52:59):
watching the zombi movie and attacked by zombies at the same time you could press
eject and use it as a weapon to defend yourself you could bash him over
his head or you could pull the tape out and strangle him with it

[raj] (53:17):
that you could that

[Ben] (53:18):
yeah

[raj] (53:18):
you could so i think this is probably a good time to end the pod
could you just stay on to a wild uploadsawesome

[Ben] (53:23):
okay okay you think i'm grasping for straws

[raj] (53:26):
yes oh