September 19, 2024 • 25 mins
Hosts:
Courtney Luecking, PhD, MPH, RDN Extension Specialist for Maternal and Child Health
Anna Cason, RDN, LD, Extension Associate for Food and Nutrition
Department of Dietetics and Human Nutrition, Martin-Gatton College of Agriculture, Food and Environment, University of Kentucky
Welcome to the fifth episode of SNACK Club where they dive into the art and science of creating pleasant and meaningful mealtime experiences for families. Drawing from their extensive expertise in family and child nutrition, Courtney and Anna explore the significance of mealtime rituals, the power of gratitude, and the role of sweets in a balanced diet. They also touch on how to make holidays less about food and more about meaningful connections and traditions.
Tune in to find out how to make mealtimes more enjoyable and mindful, setting the stage for a lifetime of healthy eating habits and cherished family moments.
So come for the SNACKS and stay for the SUPPORT!
To connect with Snack Club resources:
SNACK Club website
Big Blue Book Club Facebook Group
SNACK Club on YouTube
To Connect with FCS Extension:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music. 1 00:00:02,3800 --> 00:00:9,280 Big Blue Book Club presents SNACK Club with Courtney Luecking and Anna Cason
(00:09):
featuring Raising a Happy, Healthy Eater and
How to Raise a Mindful Eater. Now, here are our hosts.
Feeding children is an adventure. And at some point or another,
you might have had questions like, am I doing this right? Or is this normal?
(00:29):
Headlines, things we see online, things we hear from family and friends,
and even unpacking what we see in the store can have us questioning what to feed our children.
We want children to have what they need to lead happy, healthy lives.
And it seems like as soon as we figure something out, it changes.
That's where we come in. My name is Dr. Courtney Luecking. I'm a registered dietitian
(00:50):
and extension specialist for family and child nutrition.
This means I have lots of training and expertise about child nutrition.
I also have two littles of my own. This combination allows me to talk through
practical science-based strategies for creating a nourishing feeding environment for your family.
And my name is Anna Cason. I'm a registered dietitian and Extension Associate in Food and Nutrition.
(01:13):
I don't have kids of my own, but my interests and passion lie in supporting
healthy food-related behaviors which begin in childhood.
In partnership with the University of Kentucky Cooperative Extension Service,
we present SNACK Club, where we share bite-sized bits of information for Supporting
Nourished, Active Children in Kentucky.
So come for the snacks and stay for the support.
(01:34):
Hi, Courtney. How are you? I'm good. How are you? We switched it up. You got me.
This episode might feel a little different. I love it.
So we previously talked about successful meal times and a lot about structure
and boundaries, but I don't want us to get too far from the fact that we want food to be pleasant.
(02:00):
You and I talk about and think about food a lot. It's just part of our jobs.
And so we don't want people to think we're too like nuts and that's what all
we want them to talk or think about.
So we really are here to talk about like some fun aspects of mealtime and how
to make it what you want it to be.
So first I want to pose a question to you and those who are listening,
(02:21):
I want you to think about this as well. What is...
A fond or memorable mealtime that you can look back upon, whether as an adult or a child?
I would probably say not like a specific date that I have in mind,
(02:42):
but whenever we were younger, we used to go to my granddad's house every Sunday
for Sunday dinners and our cousins would be there.
And so it was a nice ritual that we did weekly.
So tell me more about what, so who all was there?
So it was my dad's side of the family.
So my granddad on my dad's side and his siblings and then their kids,
(03:05):
my cousins. And he had a huge backyard.
So we would get there early. We would eat at six o'clock on the dot every week.
Okay. It's very structured.
Okay. So we would get there early and the kids would play in the backyard with
the wagon and the ball and soccer ball and all the things.
We would have our playtime and then six o'clock on the dot, we would gather
(03:26):
around and serve ourselves.
Okay. And then we would sit at the kids' table. The kids would sit together
and then the adults were in the dining room.
I still feel like I should sit at the kids' table. It's much more fun.
I can't believe it. It's truly, it is, honestly.
Yeah. Yeah, I think we still do that, like, generationally. I'm like,
oh, there's, like, the little, little kids, and then there's,
like, the big kids table.
(03:47):
There's still kids, yeah. Yeah. I love that.
What else about that? So it sounded like the people were really memorable.
Is there anything else that you look back upon those meals and you're like,
that's what made it so special or so lovely?
So we didn't have the same thing every week, but there was definitely, like, a menu.
My granddad was very set in his ways, so he had the foods that he liked.
(04:10):
So it was always the same-ish foods, just in a different rotation.
And they're foods that I still make today for my husband and I. So sweet.
Okay. So really impactful. A Sunday evening.
And I'm hearing you talk about a lot of the elements that were brought up in
the books that we read about rituals and maybe feeling gratitude and family meals.
(04:36):
So people gathering together. So maybe let's talk about rituals and what that means.
Because I think in some of our minds, it sounds very strict or rigid or only with special occasion.
So based on what we read and your thoughts, what does rituals mean when it comes
to mealtime? So I think part of it was the rigid side of it, the structure.
(05:00):
Like I mentioned, it was the same time every week.
But also we had the ritual of saying grace at the beginning of the meal.
So we all got together for that.
And then at the end of it, the kids would help clean up the kitchen.
And then we would all share our gratitude before we left. We would thank Popo,
my granddad. So it was just a...
(05:20):
It was a very pleasant experience all around. Yeah. So these are small ways
that we can build ritual into every day.
So you talked about saying grace, and that can mean a lot of things or different
things to a lot of people, but that can also signify to children who maybe are
busy playing or easily distracted during meals.
That might help them. Or maybe it's a special song that you all like,
(05:43):
but letting children know it is time to eat. And actually, this is really evident
in preschool child care settings.
They oftentimes will have a song or something that they recite, whether it's grace.
And so it all just kind of like it's child care, preschool. They're amazing.
They're magical. They wrangle all the children. But that's one way to kind of
(06:04):
signify. And same thing. You could bookend it. Like you said, gratitude.
Those could be rituals. Or you talked about how you all contributed to it.
So you served yourselves, you helped clean up at the end.
So there are steps all throughout the process that we could include children
that would be kind of a routine or ritual, if you want to call it that.
(06:28):
Almost like a good habit to get into for now when they're younger and then also
to carry on into the lessons adulthood.
Yeah. So what are some of the other small ways that children could be in part
of that process of getting the meal either to the table or setting the table? Yeah.
Well, that's one way, depending on their age, of course, and the equipment that they should use.
(06:53):
They could help set the table. They could help in the kitchen.
They can help ahead of time at the grocery,
helping to pick out food or helping in that planning process and deciding what
part of the the meal they want to contribute to, and then getting them involved
in the kitchen, helping actually set the table and serve themselves.
And then also at the end, just having an understanding that when we are finished with our meal,
(07:20):
kids can bring the plates to the sink or to the dishwasher, or they can scrape
the food off into the compost or the trash and then help wipe down whatever. So having that...
Ritual or that habit kind of instilled. Yes.
And as you were talking, the words rhythm and routine were coming to my brain.
(07:41):
Yes. And I feel like we, our family has finally gotten to that,
at least for now, now that we have like a 19 month old, it's like,
okay, we've made it through the phase of like, she's always wanting to nurse
when in time for me to eat or things like that.
And so we do have this nice rhythm and flow.
And so figuring out how children can contribute.
(08:03):
And for the mealtime and moves on. I'm just thinking when you're talking about
the table, some kits are really artistic.
Some are really, and that could be like drawing or that might be music.
So maybe it is creating a, in fact, beautiful space for the table,
whether they color placemats or create some sort of centerpiece or the music,
(08:25):
maybe selecting music to have play in the background.
There's some scientific evidence that the book's kind of hinted on,
but that like the atmosphere within which
we surround ourselves when we eat can influence kind
of what we eat or how much creating that ambience ambience
yes yes music set your mood at home dim the lights no we're just kidding it
(08:49):
is odd though when you're in restaurants and all of a sudden like the light
dim and you're like what is happening are you cooking yourself i know i've never
been out that late no i'm just kidding all right the rituals let's also talk about gratitude?
What are, you know, if we're having a rough day, it can feel kind of challenging.
So what are some ways we can build gratitude into our.
(09:11):
I think one of the obvious ways is to show the appreciation for the food that
is on the plate or on the table because it can take a lot to get there.
So just being grateful that, one, you have food in front of you and for the
process that it's gone through and for the preparation that it's taken from
caregivers and kids if they've been involved too.
(09:33):
So like vocalizing it. I like that.
And it's such a small token of appreciation. appreciation but
again when we find gratitude
or participate in gratitude practices that can have
a lot of positive effects on our mental health then it can go a long way it
can and so maybe that is part of your grace that you say or just you said expressing
(09:55):
or like simple as last night i came home and my husband had he made quiche for
dinner our oldest had been requesting that and.
So i was like oh it smells so good and he opened the oven he was so proud there
were two there was one that was more veggie heavy, one that had a little bit more meat in it.
So he was like honoring our taste preferences, but just sitting there,
I said, thanks for dinner, dad.
(10:16):
This is really good. You know, simple as that. And like acknowledging,
I appreciate your, your work to pull this together for us. So, yeah.
So I think that's a great way to show gratitude for the food,
but then you can also show your gratitude for something that's not food related.
And maybe everyone shares something that they are thankful for that happened
during the day or Or something they're
(10:37):
proud of that they did or that they witnessed happen during the day.
So showing that gratitude and just really creating that uplifting environment
and that positive environment surrounding mealtime.
And I love that as an opportunity to try to get a window into what's going on in children's lives.
Because I feel like the older they get, they do more on their own.
(11:02):
So you don't have kind of the constant updates of like, your child ate this
and went to nap at this time. You know, it's like, how was your day?
Fine. I will say, I remember my mom picking us up from elementary school and
she would always ask how our day was.
And that's how we responded. It was fine. It was good. No details.
I don't know what happened during the day, but yeah, it was fine.
(11:24):
So, but if I told you, tell me something great that happened today.
You can't just say it was fine. It was fine. Or you couldn't say it. It was fine.
It was fun you would hopefully say although my oldest
right now she is in the phase she's like nothing yeah I'm like
okay nothing your your camp was horrible today
you got to jump on inflatables and eat ice cream it was awful and
(11:44):
then she just gives me this like smirk half smile side eye like I'm on to you
and I'm like oh no i love the idea of we do it now whenever i go to my parents
for mealtime with my siblings like doing peaks and valleys or roses and thorns
or highs and lows. So really thinking about.
The great thing that happened during your day. And then maybe something that
(12:07):
was like kind of a downer.
And at a mealtime a while ago with a friend and her nephew, who is like five,
he was like, you have the rose and then the thorn and then the stem.
And the stem is something that it was like, fine, but it's like,
you're kind of looking forward to it.
It happened. It was just like in the water.
(12:28):
And I was like, oh, a little five-year-old came up with this new concept.
I was like, he's a deep thinker. Wise.
We've got like a wise old troll there.
I love that. Kind of also like grounding, right? It's your stability.
Yeah. It's like you were talking, it's like, oh, thanks about stability.
And I think it's important, you know, again, we're not trying to paint it all
roses and rainbows or unicorns.
(12:50):
And so knowing that that creates a support system.
And notice that like a lot of these things that we're talking about are not
about food. We talk about food
a lot because that's our job and it doesn't always have to be about food.
So wanting to just really make that obvious that we can make mealtimes pleasant,
not only with the flavors of what we eat, but just, again, what's happening around that. Yeah.
(13:13):
Although, yeah, I'm kind of laughing, rolling my eyes in my head.
So like, this sounds great. And sometimes it will happen and sometimes it won't, right? Right.
But again, those rituals, those routines, getting people together.
So not everything works.
Needs to be about food. And I think that ties into holidays,
(13:34):
which was in one of the chapters that a lot of our holidays are about food,
but what could it look like if they were less about food?
Yeah. So kind of shifting the focus away from food, even though we're not saying
to take food off the table, but I always think about Thanksgiving because I
feel like that is the food holiday,
(13:54):
thinking about the big feast on the table.
So again, kind of just taking the focus off food and sharing what you were thankful
for that happened in your day or your week or something that you're looking forward to,
or getting kids involved with like making a centerpiece for the table,
getting their creative side or making placemats or something.
(14:17):
And again, it's incorporating something into the mealtime, but it's not,
we're not focusing on the food.
Right. And it could be beyond. I think one of my favorite memories was our flag
football games growing up on Thanksgiving.
But at a certain point, they got a little too aggressive. Like people were jamming fingers.
And so I think it ultimately faded away. We used to do kickball on Mother's Day.
(14:40):
But same thing, the adult, it was always adults versus kids.
And then the kids got old enough that they were starting to beat the adults.
And that's what okay fair enough
fair enough but see these are things like these rituals that we
associate with holidays so it could be totally random yeah
whether you like turkey trots we've always enjoyed those as well or lately we
(15:01):
and our holidays have looked different because we moved away from a lot of our
family and so the feelings that i had about holidays growing up it's been kind
of this tough transition but it's also been freeing like what do we want our holidays to look like.
And so the food is your own tradition.
Yes. The food is not at all the same. And it often is like, let's get this already
(15:22):
prepared from this other place.
Cause while that food was great, I don't want to be in the kitchen all day preparing it.
So knowing that there's other ways to tie in and it's still okay to like have
food be a central piece to the holidays too.
So we're not saying, oh my gosh, just forget about the candy at Halloween.
Forget about the pumpkin pie and Thanksgiving.
(15:43):
Yeah, that's not it at all. So, you know, let's talk about how holidays is a
great way to think about it, especially that season towards the end of the year.
But even just incorporating these foods that are just so delicious and how to
do it in a way that still meets within we're supporting the nourish nutritious
(16:06):
diet and we still get to have that pleasure and experience of foods.
Yeah. So really thinking about sweets, sweet treats, essentially.
Everyone loves sweets. We all, I mean, our bodies just like sugar.
So, incorporating that in, like the book suggests, including like dessert as part of the meal.
(16:28):
So, instead of separating dinner and dessert, having dessert on the side and
then just neutralizing that it is a sweet treat, but it's also just like a part of the meal.
It contributes something to that meal also. Yeah.
And I think where it can, there can be some struggle is like,
how much do we, I'm going to use air quotes, let children eat?
(16:52):
Because again, children, that their role is to determine whether and how much
to eat of something, how much or how often we offer these foods. those.
And so maybe we can talk through, there was a really nice chart in the how to raise a mindful eater.
And they called this, I think it was something about goodie management plan
(17:14):
or something, but, or flexible goodies, it's policy.
So yes, one approach is serving a small portion with dinner and just building it in there.
Another was this 90-10 rule. So maybe children get to choose a certain number
of goodies and it doesn't have to be sweets.
Like we, like you said, most Most of us have more of a sweet tooth and it could
(17:34):
be more of those salty, savory things exactly that we include and letting kids choose what they like.
Or maybe it's a once a day policy, or maybe it's a couple times a week policy.
The word policy sounds so formal, but like the boundaries, we're thinking about
boundaries about incorporating these foods.
And so there is no one right approach. And what might work for a while might
(17:59):
not at another time. And I can just speak to that with my oldest.
Like, sweets weren't really a thing growing up. We just didn't introduce them.
And therefore, they became less of a thing.
And then she got out into the world and became more of a frequently exposed
thing and really liked the taste and then kind of like hit a peak of success.
(18:19):
Just like really wanting to eat these foods. And so figuring out what that looks
like for us, we have tried incorporating it with dinner and that seems to go pretty well.
Or even earlier in the day, I know one of the books said those suggestions, but that has helped.
Like when she had a treat at her summer camp this week, it was an easy reminder
about like, oh, well, you already had a treat today, so we can have another one tomorrow.
(18:43):
I think they use the example of having cookies and milk as a snack so that it's
It's not like something that they are waiting their whole day for at the end
of the night after they finish all their other meals and snacks,
then they get to have the sweet treat.
But just, yeah, sweets can be a part of any balanced and nourishing diet.
Yeah. And non-contingent on, did you eat your vegetables?
(19:05):
Like I know for a while she was like, I ate my vegetables. And I just responded,
having dessert has nothing to do with eating all your vegetables.
Not using it as a reward. word or so just
kind of like being clear about why or
when we're incorporating it yeah and so again
there might be some pushback so it goes back to those boundaries and depending
(19:27):
on the age of your child it might be working together to decide what makes sense
right now and then just helping remind kids again how they feel like and if
if you want to eat it that's great let's really enjoy it.
But if you don't like it, let's figure out something else that would bring more joy or pleasure to eat.
(19:49):
And I know we've done that a couple of times where you take a bite.
I have had those things when you eat something from your childhood and you're
like, oh, I loved having this in my lunchbox.
And then I'm like, wait a second, this does not taste at all like I remember it. So disappointing.
Yeah, it is. I love in the How to Raise a Mindful Eater, principle three they
have a quote at the beginning and it's from evelyn tribulio and says if you
(20:11):
don't love it don't eat it and if you love it savor it so like really being
in the moment and enjoying,
whatever the food is yeah.
And I think that plays really well into the holidays. Again,
instead of being like, oh, it's so bad, or I'm moving off course,
or talking to children about food and that way, or even just around them in that way.
(20:32):
Kiddos can pick up on that, enjoying it.
Like, oh my gosh, you only make this once a year?
Yes, I'm going to eat it. And then I'm going to eat it for breakfast with coffee the next morning.
I'm going to have a leftover for three to five days. Exactly, exactly. Exactly.
So really just thinking about the pleasure of the taste, kind of looping back
(20:52):
in what we talked about earlier, the pleasure of the company,
the pleasure of the mood, or just trying to find small pockets of joy.
Because again, there still can be chaos.
Which that will feed forward into our next episode but
before we close out one of the things that really i
thought was such a nice reminder and how to raise
(21:12):
a mindful eater was the section on why children crave carbs
and i just laugh because we we i
even joke about it too but are you you know i'm like
oh adults will be like what are you carb loading for
and i'm just like for life but really they are
willing for the day exactly because they're
kind of demonized carbs are viewed to
(21:34):
be not so great and we've talked about this before but they are such
an important source of energy particularly for growing
brains and children's brain development is explosive in those early years and
so i think being less concerned about the craving for carbs and focusing Focusing
on the quality of the carbs that we are. Fruit has carbohydrates in it.
(21:58):
Most dairy products have carbohydrates in it.
Our grains, especially whole grains. So I think I don't want this,
you know, by saying carbohydrates are carbs that we automatically think of cake
or cookies or things of that nature. Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So just, it's okay. Like when you're like,
oh my gosh, you only ate the noodles.
(22:19):
Okay. That's good. You ate the noodles. Yeah. Not you only. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So I think just taking a breath, relaxing, and reminding ourselves that
part of that just seems to be a little bit of normal development and walking
through a little bit of the science where as children got older,
their preferences for the sweetness started to decrease a little bit.
And so we don't need to talk negatively about it or make people feel shame for
(22:44):
wanting to eat those types of foods.
It's just on us as the adults then to figure out what that quality looks like for nourishing.
All right. So to recap our pleasurable, more pleasant meal times,
what are our tips and strategies for that?
So finding a ritual or a habit that works for you, and maybe that's saying grace
(23:04):
or starting meal with a song so that everyone can kind of set their mind and
understand like, okay, mealtime is happening.
And then being in the moment and enjoying it and showing your gratitude for
the meal, or again, taking a step back and showing gratitude and taking the
focus off food for maybe the day and then enjoying the company.
(23:27):
Yeah. And then incorporating those tasty foods, whatever those look like for you.
Figuring out what that looks like for your family in terms of boundaries for
how often and whether you say, okay, we have this amount offered or occasionally
letting them eat as much as their heart's desires of those types of foods.
Those are ways that we can incorporate those.
(23:49):
The holiday season will be coming forward just push ourselves to
maybe reframe how we think about things and still
try to give these things a try yeah right i
don't know about you Anna but i actually feel a little bit more relaxed i do
too after this one maybe because we've been talking about such lovely yeah pleasant
mealtime topics but next time when those mealtimes are a little less pleasant
(24:11):
the reality maybe yeah so this is what our instagram like what meals we what
we We pretend they're like, and then, yes.
And then I'm envisioning my children running around the table while I'm just
sitting there trying to eat. That's what we'll tackle next. The dumpster fight.
The dumpster out. Yes. You're just walking out like.
My hair is disheveled. Yeah. So next time, join us. We'll be talking about that.
(24:31):
Yeah. All right. Thanks for joining. As always, if you have questions,
if you want to share the topics that are on your minds, you can email us at
snapclub, S-N-A-C-K-C-L-U-B@uky.edu.
And for resources or different ideas, check out the show notes and as always
visit your extension office.
(24:52):
All right. We hope you'll join us again. Thanks for joining us for another episode of SNACK Club.
Resources related to the topics discussed in this episode can be found on our
website linked in the show notes.
Your local cooperative extension office is also a wealth of information and
can provide links to local resources.
If you have other topics you would like to hear about, send us a note at snackclub@uky.edu.
(25:15):
That's S-N-A-C-K-C-L-U-B@uky.edu.
And as a reminder, the digestible bits of information we share are like navigation
signs for your feeding journey, but you may need to contact a healthcare provider
for more personal advice.
And last but not least, special thanks to our team behind the scenes.
(25:35):
Mindy McCulley for for bringing this audio and video file to life with her technology
skills and to the people through her marketing magic.
And to Kelli Thompson for her creative ability to turn one conversation into
our SNACK Club symbol. We hope to see you again soon.
Music. 1 00:00:02,3800 --> 00:00:9,280 Big Blue Book Club presents SNACK Club with Courtney Luecking and Anna Cason
(00:09):
featuring Raising a Happy, Healthy Eater and
How to Raise a Mindful Eater. Now, here are our hosts.
Feeding children is an adventure. And at some point or another,
you might have had questions like, am I doing this right? Or is this normal?
(00:29):
Headlines, things we see online, things we hear from family and friends,
and even unpacking what we see in the store can have us questioning what to feed our children.
We want children to have what they need to lead happy, healthy lives.
And it seems like as soon as we figure something out, it changes.
That's where we come in. My name is Dr. Courtney Luecking. I'm a registered dietitian
(00:50):
and extension specialist for family and child nutrition.
This means I have lots of training and expertise about child nutrition.
I also have two littles of my own. This combination allows me to talk through
practical science-based strategies for creating a nourishing feeding environment for your family.
And my name is Anna Cason. I'm a registered dietitian and Extension Associate in Food and Nutrition.
(01:13):
I don't have kids of my own, but my interests and passion lie in supporting
healthy food-related behaviors which begin in childhood.
In partnership with the University of Kentucky Cooperative Extension Service,
we present SNACK Club, where we share bite-sized bits of information for Supporting
Nourished, Active Children in Kentucky.
So come for the snacks and stay for the support.
(01:34):
Hi, Courtney. How are you? I'm good. How are you? We switched it up. You got me.
This episode might feel a little different. I love it.
So we previously talked about successful meal times and a lot about structure
and boundaries, but I don't want us to get too far from the fact that we want food to be pleasant.
(02:00):
You and I talk about and think about food a lot. It's just part of our jobs.
And so we don't want people to think we're too like nuts and that's what all
we want them to talk or think about.
So we really are here to talk about like some fun aspects of mealtime and how
to make it what you want it to be.
So first I want to pose a question to you and those who are listening,
(02:21):
I want you to think about this as well. What is...
A fond or memorable mealtime that you can look back upon, whether as an adult or a child?
I would probably say not like a specific date that I have in mind,
(02:42):
but whenever we were younger, we used to go to my granddad's house every Sunday
for Sunday dinners and our cousins would be there.
And so it was a nice ritual that we did weekly.
So tell me more about what, so who all was there?
So it was my dad's side of the family.
So my granddad on my dad's side and his siblings and then their kids,
(03:05):
my cousins. And he had a huge backyard.
So we would get there early. We would eat at six o'clock on the dot every week.
Okay. It's very structured.
Okay. So we would get there early and the kids would play in the backyard with
the wagon and the ball and soccer ball and all the things.
We would have our playtime and then six o'clock on the dot, we would gather
(03:26):
around and serve ourselves.
Okay. And then we would sit at the kids' table. The kids would sit together
and then the adults were in the dining room.
I still feel like I should sit at the kids' table. It's much more fun.
I can't believe it. It's truly, it is, honestly.
Yeah. Yeah, I think we still do that, like, generationally. I'm like,
oh, there's, like, the little, little kids, and then there's,
like, the big kids table.
(03:47):
There's still kids, yeah. Yeah. I love that.
What else about that? So it sounded like the people were really memorable.
Is there anything else that you look back upon those meals and you're like,
that's what made it so special or so lovely?
So we didn't have the same thing every week, but there was definitely, like, a menu.
My granddad was very set in his ways, so he had the foods that he liked.
(04:10):
So it was always the same-ish foods, just in a different rotation.
And they're foods that I still make today for my husband and I. So sweet.
Okay. So really impactful. A Sunday evening.
And I'm hearing you talk about a lot of the elements that were brought up in
the books that we read about rituals and maybe feeling gratitude and family meals.
(04:36):
So people gathering together. So maybe let's talk about rituals and what that means.
Because I think in some of our minds, it sounds very strict or rigid or only with special occasion.
So based on what we read and your thoughts, what does rituals mean when it comes
to mealtime? So I think part of it was the rigid side of it, the structure.
(05:00):
Like I mentioned, it was the same time every week.
But also we had the ritual of saying grace at the beginning of the meal.
So we all got together for that.
And then at the end of it, the kids would help clean up the kitchen.
And then we would all share our gratitude before we left. We would thank Popo,
my granddad. So it was just a...
(05:20):
It was a very pleasant experience all around. Yeah. So these are small ways
that we can build ritual into every day.
So you talked about saying grace, and that can mean a lot of things or different
things to a lot of people, but that can also signify to children who maybe are
busy playing or easily distracted during meals.
That might help them. Or maybe it's a special song that you all like,
(05:43):
but letting children know it is time to eat. And actually, this is really evident
in preschool child care settings.
They oftentimes will have a song or something that they recite, whether it's grace.
And so it all just kind of like it's child care, preschool. They're amazing.
They're magical. They wrangle all the children. But that's one way to kind of
(06:04):
signify. And same thing. You could bookend it. Like you said, gratitude.
Those could be rituals. Or you talked about how you all contributed to it.
So you served yourselves, you helped clean up at the end.
So there are steps all throughout the process that we could include children
that would be kind of a routine or ritual, if you want to call it that.
(06:28):
Almost like a good habit to get into for now when they're younger and then also
to carry on into the lessons adulthood.
Yeah. So what are some of the other small ways that children could be in part
of that process of getting the meal either to the table or setting the table? Yeah.
Well, that's one way, depending on their age, of course, and the equipment that they should use.
(06:53):
They could help set the table. They could help in the kitchen.
They can help ahead of time at the grocery,
helping to pick out food or helping in that planning process and deciding what
part of the the meal they want to contribute to, and then getting them involved
in the kitchen, helping actually set the table and serve themselves.
And then also at the end, just having an understanding that when we are finished with our meal,
(07:20):
kids can bring the plates to the sink or to the dishwasher, or they can scrape
the food off into the compost or the trash and then help wipe down whatever. So having that...
Ritual or that habit kind of instilled. Yes.
And as you were talking, the words rhythm and routine were coming to my brain.
(07:41):
Yes. And I feel like we, our family has finally gotten to that,
at least for now, now that we have like a 19 month old, it's like,
okay, we've made it through the phase of like, she's always wanting to nurse
when in time for me to eat or things like that.
And so we do have this nice rhythm and flow.
And so figuring out how children can contribute.
(08:03):
And for the mealtime and moves on. I'm just thinking when you're talking about
the table, some kits are really artistic.
Some are really, and that could be like drawing or that might be music.
So maybe it is creating a, in fact, beautiful space for the table,
whether they color placemats or create some sort of centerpiece or the music,
(08:25):
maybe selecting music to have play in the background.
There's some scientific evidence that the book's kind of hinted on,
but that like the atmosphere within which
we surround ourselves when we eat can influence kind
of what we eat or how much creating that ambience ambience
yes yes music set your mood at home dim the lights no we're just kidding it
(08:49):
is odd though when you're in restaurants and all of a sudden like the light
dim and you're like what is happening are you cooking yourself i know i've never
been out that late no i'm just kidding all right the rituals let's also talk about gratitude?
What are, you know, if we're having a rough day, it can feel kind of challenging.
So what are some ways we can build gratitude into our.
(09:11):
I think one of the obvious ways is to show the appreciation for the food that
is on the plate or on the table because it can take a lot to get there.
So just being grateful that, one, you have food in front of you and for the
process that it's gone through and for the preparation that it's taken from
caregivers and kids if they've been involved too.
(09:33):
So like vocalizing it. I like that.
And it's such a small token of appreciation. appreciation but
again when we find gratitude
or participate in gratitude practices that can have
a lot of positive effects on our mental health then it can go a long way it
can and so maybe that is part of your grace that you say or just you said expressing
(09:55):
or like simple as last night i came home and my husband had he made quiche for
dinner our oldest had been requesting that and.
So i was like oh it smells so good and he opened the oven he was so proud there
were two there was one that was more veggie heavy, one that had a little bit more meat in it.
So he was like honoring our taste preferences, but just sitting there,
I said, thanks for dinner, dad.
(10:16):
This is really good. You know, simple as that. And like acknowledging,
I appreciate your, your work to pull this together for us. So, yeah.
So I think that's a great way to show gratitude for the food,
but then you can also show your gratitude for something that's not food related.
And maybe everyone shares something that they are thankful for that happened
during the day or Or something they're
(10:37):
proud of that they did or that they witnessed happen during the day.
So showing that gratitude and just really creating that uplifting environment
and that positive environment surrounding mealtime.
And I love that as an opportunity to try to get a window into what's going on in children's lives.
Because I feel like the older they get, they do more on their own.
(11:02):
So you don't have kind of the constant updates of like, your child ate this
and went to nap at this time. You know, it's like, how was your day?
Fine. I will say, I remember my mom picking us up from elementary school and
she would always ask how our day was.
And that's how we responded. It was fine. It was good. No details.
I don't know what happened during the day, but yeah, it was fine.
(11:24):
So, but if I told you, tell me something great that happened today.
You can't just say it was fine. It was fine. Or you couldn't say it. It was fine.
It was fun you would hopefully say although my oldest
right now she is in the phase she's like nothing yeah I'm like
okay nothing your your camp was horrible today
you got to jump on inflatables and eat ice cream it was awful and
(11:44):
then she just gives me this like smirk half smile side eye like I'm on to you
and I'm like oh no i love the idea of we do it now whenever i go to my parents
for mealtime with my siblings like doing peaks and valleys or roses and thorns
or highs and lows. So really thinking about.
The great thing that happened during your day. And then maybe something that
(12:07):
was like kind of a downer.
And at a mealtime a while ago with a friend and her nephew, who is like five,
he was like, you have the rose and then the thorn and then the stem.
And the stem is something that it was like, fine, but it's like,
you're kind of looking forward to it.
It happened. It was just like in the water.
(12:28):
And I was like, oh, a little five-year-old came up with this new concept.
I was like, he's a deep thinker. Wise.
We've got like a wise old troll there.
I love that. Kind of also like grounding, right? It's your stability.
Yeah. It's like you were talking, it's like, oh, thanks about stability.
And I think it's important, you know, again, we're not trying to paint it all
roses and rainbows or unicorns.
(12:50):
And so knowing that that creates a support system.
And notice that like a lot of these things that we're talking about are not
about food. We talk about food
a lot because that's our job and it doesn't always have to be about food.
So wanting to just really make that obvious that we can make mealtimes pleasant,
not only with the flavors of what we eat, but just, again, what's happening around that. Yeah.
(13:13):
Although, yeah, I'm kind of laughing, rolling my eyes in my head.
So like, this sounds great. And sometimes it will happen and sometimes it won't, right? Right.
But again, those rituals, those routines, getting people together.
So not everything works.
Needs to be about food. And I think that ties into holidays,
(13:34):
which was in one of the chapters that a lot of our holidays are about food,
but what could it look like if they were less about food?
Yeah. So kind of shifting the focus away from food, even though we're not saying
to take food off the table, but I always think about Thanksgiving because I
feel like that is the food holiday,
(13:54):
thinking about the big feast on the table.
So again, kind of just taking the focus off food and sharing what you were thankful
for that happened in your day or your week or something that you're looking forward to,
or getting kids involved with like making a centerpiece for the table,
getting their creative side or making placemats or something.
(14:17):
And again, it's incorporating something into the mealtime, but it's not,
we're not focusing on the food.
Right. And it could be beyond. I think one of my favorite memories was our flag
football games growing up on Thanksgiving.
But at a certain point, they got a little too aggressive. Like people were jamming fingers.
And so I think it ultimately faded away. We used to do kickball on Mother's Day.
(14:40):
But same thing, the adult, it was always adults versus kids.
And then the kids got old enough that they were starting to beat the adults.
And that's what okay fair enough
fair enough but see these are things like these rituals that we
associate with holidays so it could be totally random yeah
whether you like turkey trots we've always enjoyed those as well or lately we
(15:01):
and our holidays have looked different because we moved away from a lot of our
family and so the feelings that i had about holidays growing up it's been kind
of this tough transition but it's also been freeing like what do we want our holidays to look like.
And so the food is your own tradition.
Yes. The food is not at all the same. And it often is like, let's get this already
(15:22):
prepared from this other place.
Cause while that food was great, I don't want to be in the kitchen all day preparing it.
So knowing that there's other ways to tie in and it's still okay to like have
food be a central piece to the holidays too.
So we're not saying, oh my gosh, just forget about the candy at Halloween.
Forget about the pumpkin pie and Thanksgiving.
(15:43):
Yeah, that's not it at all. So, you know, let's talk about how holidays is a
great way to think about it, especially that season towards the end of the year.
But even just incorporating these foods that are just so delicious and how to
do it in a way that still meets within we're supporting the nourish nutritious
(16:06):
diet and we still get to have that pleasure and experience of foods.
Yeah. So really thinking about sweets, sweet treats, essentially.
Everyone loves sweets. We all, I mean, our bodies just like sugar.
So, incorporating that in, like the book suggests, including like dessert as part of the meal.
(16:28):
So, instead of separating dinner and dessert, having dessert on the side and
then just neutralizing that it is a sweet treat, but it's also just like a part of the meal.
It contributes something to that meal also. Yeah.
And I think where it can, there can be some struggle is like,
how much do we, I'm going to use air quotes, let children eat?
(16:52):
Because again, children, that their role is to determine whether and how much
to eat of something, how much or how often we offer these foods. those.
And so maybe we can talk through, there was a really nice chart in the how to raise a mindful eater.
And they called this, I think it was something about goodie management plan
(17:14):
or something, but, or flexible goodies, it's policy.
So yes, one approach is serving a small portion with dinner and just building it in there.
Another was this 90-10 rule. So maybe children get to choose a certain number
of goodies and it doesn't have to be sweets.
Like we, like you said, most Most of us have more of a sweet tooth and it could
(17:34):
be more of those salty, savory things exactly that we include and letting kids choose what they like.
Or maybe it's a once a day policy, or maybe it's a couple times a week policy.
The word policy sounds so formal, but like the boundaries, we're thinking about
boundaries about incorporating these foods.
And so there is no one right approach. And what might work for a while might
(17:59):
not at another time. And I can just speak to that with my oldest.
Like, sweets weren't really a thing growing up. We just didn't introduce them.
And therefore, they became less of a thing.
And then she got out into the world and became more of a frequently exposed
thing and really liked the taste and then kind of like hit a peak of success.
(18:19):
Just like really wanting to eat these foods. And so figuring out what that looks
like for us, we have tried incorporating it with dinner and that seems to go pretty well.
Or even earlier in the day, I know one of the books said those suggestions, but that has helped.
Like when she had a treat at her summer camp this week, it was an easy reminder
about like, oh, well, you already had a treat today, so we can have another one tomorrow.
(18:43):
I think they use the example of having cookies and milk as a snack so that it's
It's not like something that they are waiting their whole day for at the end
of the night after they finish all their other meals and snacks,
then they get to have the sweet treat.
But just, yeah, sweets can be a part of any balanced and nourishing diet.
Yeah. And non-contingent on, did you eat your vegetables?
(19:05):
Like I know for a while she was like, I ate my vegetables. And I just responded,
having dessert has nothing to do with eating all your vegetables.
Not using it as a reward. word or so just
kind of like being clear about why or
when we're incorporating it yeah and so again
there might be some pushback so it goes back to those boundaries and depending
(19:27):
on the age of your child it might be working together to decide what makes sense
right now and then just helping remind kids again how they feel like and if
if you want to eat it that's great let's really enjoy it.
But if you don't like it, let's figure out something else that would bring more joy or pleasure to eat.
(19:49):
And I know we've done that a couple of times where you take a bite.
I have had those things when you eat something from your childhood and you're
like, oh, I loved having this in my lunchbox.
And then I'm like, wait a second, this does not taste at all like I remember it. So disappointing.
Yeah, it is. I love in the How to Raise a Mindful Eater, principle three they
have a quote at the beginning and it's from evelyn tribulio and says if you
(20:11):
don't love it don't eat it and if you love it savor it so like really being
in the moment and enjoying,
whatever the food is yeah.
And I think that plays really well into the holidays. Again,
instead of being like, oh, it's so bad, or I'm moving off course,
or talking to children about food and that way, or even just around them in that way.
(20:32):
Kiddos can pick up on that, enjoying it.
Like, oh my gosh, you only make this once a year?
Yes, I'm going to eat it. And then I'm going to eat it for breakfast with coffee the next morning.
I'm going to have a leftover for three to five days. Exactly, exactly. Exactly.
So really just thinking about the pleasure of the taste, kind of looping back
(20:52):
in what we talked about earlier, the pleasure of the company,
the pleasure of the mood, or just trying to find small pockets of joy.
Because again, there still can be chaos.
Which that will feed forward into our next episode but
before we close out one of the things that really i
thought was such a nice reminder and how to raise
(21:12):
a mindful eater was the section on why children crave carbs
and i just laugh because we we i
even joke about it too but are you you know i'm like
oh adults will be like what are you carb loading for
and i'm just like for life but really they are
willing for the day exactly because they're
kind of demonized carbs are viewed to
(21:34):
be not so great and we've talked about this before but they are such
an important source of energy particularly for growing
brains and children's brain development is explosive in those early years and
so i think being less concerned about the craving for carbs and focusing Focusing
on the quality of the carbs that we are. Fruit has carbohydrates in it.
(21:58):
Most dairy products have carbohydrates in it.
Our grains, especially whole grains. So I think I don't want this,
you know, by saying carbohydrates are carbs that we automatically think of cake
or cookies or things of that nature. Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So just, it's okay. Like when you're like,
oh my gosh, you only ate the noodles.
(22:19):
Okay. That's good. You ate the noodles. Yeah. Not you only. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So I think just taking a breath, relaxing, and reminding ourselves that
part of that just seems to be a little bit of normal development and walking
through a little bit of the science where as children got older,
their preferences for the sweetness started to decrease a little bit.
And so we don't need to talk negatively about it or make people feel shame for
(22:44):
wanting to eat those types of foods.
It's just on us as the adults then to figure out what that quality looks like for nourishing.
All right. So to recap our pleasurable, more pleasant meal times,
what are our tips and strategies for that?
So finding a ritual or a habit that works for you, and maybe that's saying grace
(23:04):
or starting meal with a song so that everyone can kind of set their mind and
understand like, okay, mealtime is happening.
And then being in the moment and enjoying it and showing your gratitude for
the meal, or again, taking a step back and showing gratitude and taking the
focus off food for maybe the day and then enjoying the company.
(23:27):
Yeah. And then incorporating those tasty foods, whatever those look like for you.
Figuring out what that looks like for your family in terms of boundaries for
how often and whether you say, okay, we have this amount offered or occasionally
letting them eat as much as their heart's desires of those types of foods.
Those are ways that we can incorporate those.
(23:49):
The holiday season will be coming forward just push ourselves to
maybe reframe how we think about things and still
try to give these things a try yeah right i
don't know about you Anna but i actually feel a little bit more relaxed i do
too after this one maybe because we've been talking about such lovely yeah pleasant
mealtime topics but next time when those mealtimes are a little less pleasant
(24:11):
the reality maybe yeah so this is what our instagram like what meals we what
we We pretend they're like, and then, yes.
And then I'm envisioning my children running around the table while I'm just
sitting there trying to eat. That's what we'll tackle next. The dumpster fight.
The dumpster out. Yes. You're just walking out like.
My hair is disheveled. Yeah. So next time, join us. We'll be talking about that.
(24:31):
Yeah. All right. Thanks for joining. As always, if you have questions,
if you want to share the topics that are on your minds, you can email us at
snapclub, S-N-A-C-K-C-L-U-B@uky.edu.
And for resources or different ideas, check out the show notes and as always
visit your extension office.
(24:52):
All right. We hope you'll join us again. Thanks for joining us for another episode of SNACK Club.
Resources related to the topics discussed in this episode can be found on our
website linked in the show notes.
Your local cooperative extension office is also a wealth of information and
can provide links to local resources.
If you have other topics you would like to hear about, send us a note at snackclub@uky.edu.
(25:15):
That's S-N-A-C-K-C-L-U-B@uky.edu.
And as a reminder, the digestible bits of information we share are like navigation
signs for your feeding journey, but you may need to contact a healthcare provider
for more personal advice.
And last but not least, special thanks to our team behind the scenes.
(25:35):
Mindy McCulley for for bringing this audio and video file to life with her technology
skills and to the people through her marketing magic.
And to Kelli Thompson for her creative ability to turn one conversation into
our SNACK Club symbol. We hope to see you again soon.
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