May 5, 2023 • 19 mins
Each week, TechTarget's news team and industry experts provide candid insight and analysis of the biggest IT news headlines of the week. On today's show, Chanley T. Howell of Foley & Lardner discusses how AI makes easier for companies to review software and services contracts; TechTarget AI reporter Esther Ajao explains why "the godfather of AI" left Google; and TechTarget security reporter Arielle Waldman explains why passkeys might soon replace passwords.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
But as generative AI becomes better phishing scams
(00:02):
are getting more and morecomplex and it's easier and
easier to check people.
Antone Gonsalves (00:08):
Hi, and welcome to Tech News this week.
I'm your host techtarget,editorial news director and
Tonquin salvus. On today's show,we'll discuss how AI is making
it easier for companies toreview software and services
contracts. Why the godfather ofAI Geoffrey Hinton left Google
(00:29):
and how we might one day be freeof passwords. First off, AI will
change how people work in manyindustries, including the legal
profession. In fact, GoldmanSachs predicts AI will perform
more than 40% of the routinetasks within legal firms here to
explain how AI has alreadychanged the process reviewing
(00:52):
software contracts, is gentlyHowell, a partner of Foley and
Lardner, a top 50 Law Firm. Allright, so first question, you
know, fully has tried to stayahead of the AI tsunami with the
release of legal AI about legalAI SAS product called fully
equipped. How does it helpclients with software and IT
(01:15):
services contracts?
Unknown (01:17):
Thanks, Aunt Joan. And thanks for having me. What it
does is for agreements that comein from another party, so our
client, for example, would be acustomer in a relationship and a
technology agreement. Mypractice is in it, transaction
software agreements, cloudagreements. So very frequently,
(01:38):
our client will get an agreementfrom the software provider. And
our goal, our task is to reviewthe agreement to determine if
there's any problems with it.And there usually are some
things that need to benegotiated and changed. What the
fully equipped AI poweredtechnology does is it will
identify the problem language inthe agreement. So we have a list
(02:01):
of about 40 issues, things likewarranties, and indemnification
and limitation of liability, Idon't want to get too much in
the legal weeds. But issues thatare common in commercial
agreements, and in particulartechnology agreements. So IP
ownership and the AI, we run theagreement through the AI and we
get a version back, that can beviewed on a portal on a web
(02:23):
portal and also with the Wordplugin. So changes can be made
right in Word. And after it'srun through the API, we get the
version back, it takes a matterof minutes, the AI has
identified the problem areasthat we need to focus on. So you
know, these agreements aretypically anywhere from 15 to 50
(02:43):
pages give or take. So in a lotof our clients have a very high
volume of these agreements. Sothey're looking to a get them
done quicker, they get them donecheaper, see, make sure quality
control is where it should be.So the AI will identify the
problem issues. And so we can gostraight to where the problems
are without having to read everyword. Now the AI is a tool that
(03:07):
doesn't replace humans. At thispoint, what it does is
accelerates the process youtalked about and Tony mentioned
the Goldman Sachs statistic, andI think you mentioned routine
tasks. What this does is isautomate and use the AI to deal
with the more routine tasks. Butwhen I say routine, it's still
something that a trained lawyer,or paralegal but typically a
(03:30):
lawyer would need to do, butit's at the lower end of our
spectrum. So the language isidentified. And then also in the
system, it has our advice aboutthe issue. So let's say we're
talking about ownership ofintellectual property, we'll
have right there in the tool, adescription of why that's
important, and what'ssignificant about it. And then
(03:51):
the second thing the system hasalso built in, it's based on our
content. And our knowledge baseis our sample language. So if we
see if the AI takes us to aprovision about IP ownership
that we don't like, and ourclient doesn't like, we have the
advice in there for a either forthe client to see, or for a
(04:12):
business person with the clientto see for the engineers if the
engineer or contract person isworking on it. And then we have
the language right there. So anychanges that need to be made,
whether it's by us or theclient, can be made. So that's
the main way that the that thesystem helps accelerate the
process, make things quicker andmore efficient.
Antone Gonsalves (04:34):
Sure, and so they can take a look at the
provisions that that your lawfirm feels they need to to look
at and be aware of. But at theend, at the end of the day, most
of your clients will call in forthe attorney to come in and do a
final review before theyactually sign the contract. Yes,
Unknown (04:56):
we have different ways to provide the service one would
be we'd run it through, we sendthem a checklist, the issues
list, and they can run with it.Or they can come back to us and
say, Okay, well, you now revisethe agreement. We can do that.
Will you help us withnegotiations? And we can do
that.
Antone Gonsalves (05:14):
Okay, so that's, you know, as the as AI
improves and gets better? Whatare the changes? Do you see
coming? In terms of workingwith, with law clients working
with law firms? And it wouldalso seem like this would this
could reduce the overall cost oflegal work? Or it could shift it
(05:37):
from, you know, billable hoursto project based pricing? What
do you see what changes are youpreparing for as AI gets better?
Unknown (05:49):
Well, a few things. First of all, lawyers will need
to spend more time learning thetechnology. And we all in really
any profession need to learnwhat technology tools we have.
But this is this takes thetechnology tools to a newer,
higher level, which clientsexpect us to be able to use. So
lawyers will need to do moretraining on the technology is
(06:10):
one, it will also reduce theamount of time lawyers need to
spend on more of the lower levelroutine work. And it will shift
use the word shift, that's agood way to view it, it will
shift the time that we spend andit will shift the clients dollar
spend whether it's on an hourlybasis or a fixed fee, project
(06:31):
basis, it will shift that tomore value services. So rather
than having, I'm just going tomake numbers up, rather than
having to spend five hoursreading a contract word by word,
to identify the problems, the AIwill do it in a matter of
minutes, that amount of timewill either I mean it does a
number of things, it saves moneyfor the client. And it also
(06:53):
allows the client for theirparticular budget to be able to
spend more time with us if theyneed our help on the more
strategic issues. So when we'readvising a client about
business, you know, being abusiness partner with them, if
you will, things that really arehigher level, more strategic,
more tactical, as opposed to thelower level. So it will shift
(07:16):
the amount the way that ourhours are spent to the higher
value both for the client andfor the firm. So things will
will It will save time. We don'tsee it anytime soon, replacing
lawyers, but rather allowinglawyers to do handle more, let's
talk about in the world ofagreements, more agreements for
clients, with the same number oflawyers, and the amount of when
(07:40):
we're interacting with theclient. It's more higher value,
business, strategiccompensation, as opposed to
reading, you know, every word ofan agreement. Now, okay, so
Antone Gonsalves (07:51):
what about in terms of paralegals and legal
assistants, it would seem to methat as the law as AI makes the
law firms more efficient, as youjust mentioned, that would
reduce your need for supportstaff. Wouldn't it in time?
Unknown (08:09):
Yes, it does. Legal Tech has done that. I've been
practicing for more than 30years now. And ratios. One of
the one of the factors, andwe're, you know, quote, big law.
And one of the ratios that firmslook to is the ratio of
assistants and also paralegals,and that's continually gone down
over time. A lot of that isvarious legal tech, whether it's
(08:32):
word processing, or email, etc.And this will continue that
pace. Now. It's not so much thesecretaries or legal assistants,
because this the what thisparticular solution does, is not
secretaries and assistantsweren't doing that to begin
with. Paralegals do some. So itcould impact the amount needed
(08:53):
for paralegals. But again, thatwould free them up to do other
more higher value, things thatappear illegal would be properly
trained to do so it, it couldreduce headcount, but in a law
firm, you know, lawyers andparalegals are revenue
generating individuals. So theidea would be where we see it
(09:15):
impacting our firm and in firmsgenerally, we don't want to
reduce headcount of lawyers andparalegals, but we certainly
would like to get more have ourlawyers that we have, be able to
handle more work, and morehigher value work, which this
technology allows us to do.
Antone Gonsalves (09:34):
Okay, you can't talk about AI this week
without discussing GeoffreyHinton's departure from Google.
Hinton has made importantcontributions that about
development of AI, he left thesearch giant so he could you
could be free to talk about thedangers of AI. Here to explain
Hinton's concerns is techtargetand editorial AI reporter s3
(09:59):
Shot out. So what are the AIrisks that, that wherever you
enter?
Esther Ajao (10:04):
Yeah, I mean, it's like I don't know if we ever
talked about the AI pause a fewweeks ago, but it's basically
the idea that he's worried thatthis system is going to get more
intelligent. And it's not goingto be more intelligent that
humans and so if they're moreintelligent than humans, they're
going to be better atmanipulating humans. And this
(10:24):
will lead to in the politicalworld, in the hacking world,
this will lead people to misusethis technology, which means
that you can now I think, asquote yesterday, it was like,
you don't need to be atWashington in order to get an AI
system to invade Washington,something like that, basically,
to the effect that this will bemisused in a very bad political
(10:47):
way. And he's scared. That's histhing. He's scared.
Antone Gonsalves (10:52):
Alright, so he, what are what are is his
plans? Now, these are no longerwith Google, is he going to be
working to to help build sometype of regulatory environment
around AI? did? What
Esther Ajao (11:10):
question I mean, he didn't really talk about his
plans. I think he wants to befree or to be to discuss like
this other risk. And, and manypeople have said, well, this is
kind of hypocritical. I mean,you're 75. How, and you've been
in this for so long, right? Soyou have all people should know
what the risk are, or a longtime should have known what the
(11:31):
risk are. So he's, he's like, Idon't really have a solution.
But his solution is, now thatI'm talking about it, we can now
gather people together to kindof figure out some risk in
place. And Hinton is basicallykind of pointing out a lot of
things that people are pointedout is that the the AI systems
are moving at such a fast pace,where you have Google doing
(11:53):
this, you have Microsoft doingthis. And there is a lack of
regulation, I know that AIleaders were invited to the
White House. So maybe we'll havesome of that moving in. And then
you have different countriesjust trying to create their own
kind of regulations. But becausethe regulators don't understand
it, the people using it don'tunderstand it. We are at a point
where it seems like the AIsystem will quote unquote, take
(12:16):
over the world or will, quoteunquote, be smarter than humans.
But we now just have to figureout a solution and a way to use
it responsibly.
Antone Gonsalves (12:25):
Yeah, I mean, there's certainly there's
certainly enough indicators outthere that we should be
concerned. I mean, just a secondago, a minute ago, I had Chadli,
how old talking about how lawfirms are just going to be
reduced headcount? Because ofAI, IBM stopped hiring for back
office, like HR departments,right, because the jobs he
(12:49):
thinks AI can do. So so theconcerns, you see all the
concerns? Certainly real. I justdon't I just don't see much
happening yet. In the US on theregulatory side, I don't see any
focus by government on actuallytrying to regulate. Do you see
(13:09):
any any movement on that front?Are we just kind of at the
beginning?
Esther Ajao (13:13):
I think we're at the beginning stage. I think to
be fair, a lot of people aretrying to understand this
technology. I mean, chat TBTkind of brought it front and
center. People were using it,why whisper everyone is like
interested in chatty tea. But alot of people want to know,
like, what this How does thistechnology work? What does it
do? And I spoke to a professor,and he's like, it's the same
(13:35):
thing with cars. When cars cameout, everyone was like, Well, my
horses are better. It's the samething with any new technology
that comes out. And they're allcause for concerns, right? You
know, it's going to take oversome jobs. But the key is, like,
if you're really worried, it'sprobably better for you to find
a way that how can I use this AIsystem to enhance to upskill my
(13:57):
career not to like, oh, it'sgonna replace me because at the
end of the day, I always say,well, humans are the one that
created the AI system. Soobviously, humans are the ones
who is going to make it better.And so if I can use AI in my
job, if you can use it in yourjob, then it's probably going to
work out.
Antone Gonsalves (14:16):
Finally, no one loves passwords. They're
difficult to remember, you haveto manage dozens of them to
avoid using the same passwordover and over again, and they
are often stolen by a cyberthieves to break into corporate
computers. Well, the securityindustry has introduced its
(14:36):
latest form of passwordlessauthentication. Here to tell us
about it is techtarget editorialsecurity reporter, Arielle
Waldman. Alright, so what's thelatest password list
authentication, the securityindustry
Unknown (14:54):
I mean, there's a lot of different forms password
lists can take but pass keys arebecoming One that's increasingly
adopted. The technology isn'tsuper new, but the form that
they're currently in, wasannounced about a year ago. So
users can authenticate with pastkeys without having an enter
username or password, or anyadditional authentication
(15:15):
factor. They use biometrics, solike fingerprints face ID, you
can easily access it with yourphone, which is nice, especially
in a hybrid work environment.Everyone's devices are kind of
interconnected between work andhome. And I think it's becoming
more and more important to bepassword lists. Because
attackers are using those stolencredentials, like you said, to
(15:38):
conduct ransomware attacks thatlead to data breaches, phishing
campaigns, credential stuffingattacks, which are also on the
rise. The goal of the past keysis to eliminate credentials as a
target and not give attackersanything to fish. Currently,
training awareness is the wayenterprises try and protect
against phishing. And like yousaid, again, it's put on the
(16:01):
user more so to be aware ofmisspellings in the emails or
other signs of phishing email.But as generative AI becomes
better phishing scams aregetting more and more complex,
and it's easier and easier totrick people. So increased
security is critical, like usingpass keys and things like that,
that don't even have theusername and passwords for
attackers to target.
Antone Gonsalves (16:23):
Okay, so how does pass keys work? What are
what are they know that me as auser, what would this past key
look like? Well, what would itbe?
Unknown (16:33):
Oh, yeah. So they usually use biometrics, it could
be like a fingerprint, face ID,you can use it just through your
phone. So just eliminates theneed for you to remember any
passwords, or anything likethat. I think people have like
up to 200 passwords sometimes.
Antone Gonsalves (16:51):
Sure, I've got over 100 in my password. But
that's not unusual. I readyesterday, that average is like
100, passwords. Okay, so whatwe're talking about is other
forms of authentication, mybiometrics or whatever else,
yeah, that you mentioned, Iguess for this to all work if
we're gonna get rid ofpasswords, and we're gonna have
(17:14):
companies like Microsoft, Googlemeta, you know, IT companies or
billions of users, if they makethe move? And then then we're,
that would do a lot to push thewhole movement. So is there any
is there anything? Is there anysigns that that are? That that's
happening? I the big, big peopleinvolved, the big
Unknown (17:37):
Google actually unveiled passkey options
yesterday. And they build it aslike the beginning of the end of
the password. So for Google'spaths, keys, users can choose
between a pin facialrecognition, or a fingerprint
authentication. So yeah, soGoogle, Google coming into the
(17:57):
picture is definitely a bigthing. I think the passwordless
adoption is really on the usersbecause they're the ones that
need to implement it. And if theif big companies like that, you
know, are using it, then I thinkit will be widely adopted more
quickly. But the transition willtake some time. Still, even,
(18:20):
it'll probably be in a hybridversion for a few more years to
come with a mix of people usingpasswords and usernames, and
others adopting paths, keys orother password lists,
authentication options, but itdoes seem to be taking off
really quickly.
Antone Gonsalves (18:35):
It seems like two factor authentication was
kind of it was the first steptowards this, because I do that,
whenever I can on websites, Iput in the password, and then I
use my authenticator. So itseems like this is okay. So
we've, I guess, the securityindustry or companies have
(18:56):
gotten people used to the ideaof two factor authentication. So
that would be like a big steptowards to eventually just
removing the use of the passwordcompletely. Once people get used
to authenticators and, I don'tknow, biometric sensors, that
type of thing.
Unknown (19:12):
Yeah, definitely. vendors have said that password
this will eliminate the need formultifactor authentication.
Eventually. Some problems withmulti factor authentication is,
for example, you could choose toauthenticate through a text
message. But phishing has becomeso bad that attackers you may
not even notice the phishinglink or something like that, and
(19:34):
they can kind of trick you evenwhen you're trying to
authenticate. So attackers aredefinitely finding ways to
bypass MFA authentication, so wejust have to try to keep ahead
of them keep getting better withour passwords.
Antone Gonsalves (19:47):
Alright, that wraps up this week's show.
Thanks for watching and enjoythe weekend.
But as generative AI becomes better phishing scams
(00:02):
are getting more and morecomplex and it's easier and
easier to check people.
Antone Gonsalves (00:08):
Hi, and welcome to Tech News this week.
I'm your host techtarget,editorial news director and
Tonquin salvus. On today's show,we'll discuss how AI is making
it easier for companies toreview software and services
contracts. Why the godfather ofAI Geoffrey Hinton left Google
(00:29):
and how we might one day be freeof passwords. First off, AI will
change how people work in manyindustries, including the legal
profession. In fact, GoldmanSachs predicts AI will perform
more than 40% of the routinetasks within legal firms here to
explain how AI has alreadychanged the process reviewing
(00:52):
software contracts, is gentlyHowell, a partner of Foley and
Lardner, a top 50 Law Firm. Allright, so first question, you
know, fully has tried to stayahead of the AI tsunami with the
release of legal AI about legalAI SAS product called fully
equipped. How does it helpclients with software and IT
(01:15):
services contracts?
Unknown (01:17):
Thanks, Aunt Joan. And thanks for having me. What it
does is for agreements that comein from another party, so our
client, for example, would be acustomer in a relationship and a
technology agreement. Mypractice is in it, transaction
software agreements, cloudagreements. So very frequently,
(01:38):
our client will get an agreementfrom the software provider. And
our goal, our task is to reviewthe agreement to determine if
there's any problems with it.And there usually are some
things that need to benegotiated and changed. What the
fully equipped AI poweredtechnology does is it will
identify the problem language inthe agreement. So we have a list
(02:01):
of about 40 issues, things likewarranties, and indemnification
and limitation of liability, Idon't want to get too much in
the legal weeds. But issues thatare common in commercial
agreements, and in particulartechnology agreements. So IP
ownership and the AI, we run theagreement through the AI and we
get a version back, that can beviewed on a portal on a web
(02:23):
portal and also with the Wordplugin. So changes can be made
right in Word. And after it'srun through the API, we get the
version back, it takes a matterof minutes, the AI has
identified the problem areasthat we need to focus on. So you
know, these agreements aretypically anywhere from 15 to 50
(02:43):
pages give or take. So in a lotof our clients have a very high
volume of these agreements. Sothey're looking to a get them
done quicker, they get them donecheaper, see, make sure quality
control is where it should be.So the AI will identify the
problem issues. And so we can gostraight to where the problems
are without having to read everyword. Now the AI is a tool that
(03:07):
doesn't replace humans. At thispoint, what it does is
accelerates the process youtalked about and Tony mentioned
the Goldman Sachs statistic, andI think you mentioned routine
tasks. What this does is isautomate and use the AI to deal
with the more routine tasks. Butwhen I say routine, it's still
something that a trained lawyer,or paralegal but typically a
(03:30):
lawyer would need to do, butit's at the lower end of our
spectrum. So the language isidentified. And then also in the
system, it has our advice aboutthe issue. So let's say we're
talking about ownership ofintellectual property, we'll
have right there in the tool, adescription of why that's
important, and what'ssignificant about it. And then
(03:51):
the second thing the system hasalso built in, it's based on our
content. And our knowledge baseis our sample language. So if we
see if the AI takes us to aprovision about IP ownership
that we don't like, and ourclient doesn't like, we have the
advice in there for a either forthe client to see, or for a
(04:12):
business person with the clientto see for the engineers if the
engineer or contract person isworking on it. And then we have
the language right there. So anychanges that need to be made,
whether it's by us or theclient, can be made. So that's
the main way that the that thesystem helps accelerate the
process, make things quicker andmore efficient.
Antone Gonsalves (04:34):
Sure, and so they can take a look at the
provisions that that your lawfirm feels they need to to look
at and be aware of. But at theend, at the end of the day, most
of your clients will call in forthe attorney to come in and do a
final review before theyactually sign the contract. Yes,
Unknown (04:56):
we have different ways to provide the service one would
be we'd run it through, we sendthem a checklist, the issues
list, and they can run with it.Or they can come back to us and
say, Okay, well, you now revisethe agreement. We can do that.
Will you help us withnegotiations? And we can do
that.
Antone Gonsalves (05:14):
Okay, so that's, you know, as the as AI
improves and gets better? Whatare the changes? Do you see
coming? In terms of workingwith, with law clients working
with law firms? And it wouldalso seem like this would this
could reduce the overall cost oflegal work? Or it could shift it
(05:37):
from, you know, billable hoursto project based pricing? What
do you see what changes are youpreparing for as AI gets better?
Unknown (05:49):
Well, a few things. First of all, lawyers will need
to spend more time learning thetechnology. And we all in really
any profession need to learnwhat technology tools we have.
But this is this takes thetechnology tools to a newer,
higher level, which clientsexpect us to be able to use. So
lawyers will need to do moretraining on the technology is
(06:10):
one, it will also reduce theamount of time lawyers need to
spend on more of the lower levelroutine work. And it will shift
use the word shift, that's agood way to view it, it will
shift the time that we spend andit will shift the clients dollar
spend whether it's on an hourlybasis or a fixed fee, project
(06:31):
basis, it will shift that tomore value services. So rather
than having, I'm just going tomake numbers up, rather than
having to spend five hoursreading a contract word by word,
to identify the problems, the AIwill do it in a matter of
minutes, that amount of timewill either I mean it does a
number of things, it saves moneyfor the client. And it also
(06:53):
allows the client for theirparticular budget to be able to
spend more time with us if theyneed our help on the more
strategic issues. So when we'readvising a client about
business, you know, being abusiness partner with them, if
you will, things that really arehigher level, more strategic,
more tactical, as opposed to thelower level. So it will shift
(07:16):
the amount the way that ourhours are spent to the higher
value both for the client andfor the firm. So things will
will It will save time. We don'tsee it anytime soon, replacing
lawyers, but rather allowinglawyers to do handle more, let's
talk about in the world ofagreements, more agreements for
clients, with the same number oflawyers, and the amount of when
(07:40):
we're interacting with theclient. It's more higher value,
business, strategiccompensation, as opposed to
reading, you know, every word ofan agreement. Now, okay, so
Antone Gonsalves (07:51):
what about in terms of paralegals and legal
assistants, it would seem to methat as the law as AI makes the
law firms more efficient, as youjust mentioned, that would
reduce your need for supportstaff. Wouldn't it in time?
Unknown (08:09):
Yes, it does. Legal Tech has done that. I've been
practicing for more than 30years now. And ratios. One of
the one of the factors, andwe're, you know, quote, big law.
And one of the ratios that firmslook to is the ratio of
assistants and also paralegals,and that's continually gone down
over time. A lot of that isvarious legal tech, whether it's
(08:32):
word processing, or email, etc.And this will continue that
pace. Now. It's not so much thesecretaries or legal assistants,
because this the what thisparticular solution does, is not
secretaries and assistantsweren't doing that to begin
with. Paralegals do some. So itcould impact the amount needed
(08:53):
for paralegals. But again, thatwould free them up to do other
more higher value, things thatappear illegal would be properly
trained to do so it, it couldreduce headcount, but in a law
firm, you know, lawyers andparalegals are revenue
generating individuals. So theidea would be where we see it
(09:15):
impacting our firm and in firmsgenerally, we don't want to
reduce headcount of lawyers andparalegals, but we certainly
would like to get more have ourlawyers that we have, be able to
handle more work, and morehigher value work, which this
technology allows us to do.
Antone Gonsalves (09:34):
Okay, you can't talk about AI this week
without discussing GeoffreyHinton's departure from Google.
Hinton has made importantcontributions that about
development of AI, he left thesearch giant so he could you
could be free to talk about thedangers of AI. Here to explain
Hinton's concerns is techtargetand editorial AI reporter s3
(09:59):
Shot out. So what are the AIrisks that, that wherever you
enter?
Esther Ajao (10:04):
Yeah, I mean, it's like I don't know if we ever
talked about the AI pause a fewweeks ago, but it's basically
the idea that he's worried thatthis system is going to get more
intelligent. And it's not goingto be more intelligent that
humans and so if they're moreintelligent than humans, they're
going to be better atmanipulating humans. And this
(10:24):
will lead to in the politicalworld, in the hacking world,
this will lead people to misusethis technology, which means
that you can now I think, asquote yesterday, it was like,
you don't need to be atWashington in order to get an AI
system to invade Washington,something like that, basically,
to the effect that this will bemisused in a very bad political
(10:47):
way. And he's scared. That's histhing. He's scared.
Antone Gonsalves (10:52):
Alright, so he, what are what are is his
plans? Now, these are no longerwith Google, is he going to be
working to to help build sometype of regulatory environment
around AI? did? What
Esther Ajao (11:10):
question I mean, he didn't really talk about his
plans. I think he wants to befree or to be to discuss like
this other risk. And, and manypeople have said, well, this is
kind of hypocritical. I mean,you're 75. How, and you've been
in this for so long, right? Soyou have all people should know
what the risk are, or a longtime should have known what the
(11:31):
risk are. So he's, he's like, Idon't really have a solution.
But his solution is, now thatI'm talking about it, we can now
gather people together to kindof figure out some risk in
place. And Hinton is basicallykind of pointing out a lot of
things that people are pointedout is that the the AI systems
are moving at such a fast pace,where you have Google doing
(11:53):
this, you have Microsoft doingthis. And there is a lack of
regulation, I know that AIleaders were invited to the
White House. So maybe we'll havesome of that moving in. And then
you have different countriesjust trying to create their own
kind of regulations. But becausethe regulators don't understand
it, the people using it don'tunderstand it. We are at a point
where it seems like the AIsystem will quote unquote, take
(12:16):
over the world or will, quoteunquote, be smarter than humans.
But we now just have to figureout a solution and a way to use
it responsibly.
Antone Gonsalves (12:25):
Yeah, I mean, there's certainly there's
certainly enough indicators outthere that we should be
concerned. I mean, just a secondago, a minute ago, I had Chadli,
how old talking about how lawfirms are just going to be
reduced headcount? Because ofAI, IBM stopped hiring for back
office, like HR departments,right, because the jobs he
(12:49):
thinks AI can do. So so theconcerns, you see all the
concerns? Certainly real. I justdon't I just don't see much
happening yet. In the US on theregulatory side, I don't see any
focus by government on actuallytrying to regulate. Do you see
(13:09):
any any movement on that front?Are we just kind of at the
beginning?
Esther Ajao (13:13):
I think we're at the beginning stage. I think to
be fair, a lot of people aretrying to understand this
technology. I mean, chat TBTkind of brought it front and
center. People were using it,why whisper everyone is like
interested in chatty tea. But alot of people want to know,
like, what this How does thistechnology work? What does it
do? And I spoke to a professor,and he's like, it's the same
(13:35):
thing with cars. When cars cameout, everyone was like, Well, my
horses are better. It's the samething with any new technology
that comes out. And they're allcause for concerns, right? You
know, it's going to take oversome jobs. But the key is, like,
if you're really worried, it'sprobably better for you to find
a way that how can I use this AIsystem to enhance to upskill my
(13:57):
career not to like, oh, it'sgonna replace me because at the
end of the day, I always say,well, humans are the one that
created the AI system. Soobviously, humans are the ones
who is going to make it better.And so if I can use AI in my
job, if you can use it in yourjob, then it's probably going to
work out.
Antone Gonsalves (14:16):
Finally, no one loves passwords. They're
difficult to remember, you haveto manage dozens of them to
avoid using the same passwordover and over again, and they
are often stolen by a cyberthieves to break into corporate
computers. Well, the securityindustry has introduced its
(14:36):
latest form of passwordlessauthentication. Here to tell us
about it is techtarget editorialsecurity reporter, Arielle
Waldman. Alright, so what's thelatest password list
authentication, the securityindustry
Unknown (14:54):
I mean, there's a lot of different forms password
lists can take but pass keys arebecoming One that's increasingly
adopted. The technology isn'tsuper new, but the form that
they're currently in, wasannounced about a year ago. So
users can authenticate with pastkeys without having an enter
username or password, or anyadditional authentication
(15:15):
factor. They use biometrics, solike fingerprints face ID, you
can easily access it with yourphone, which is nice, especially
in a hybrid work environment.Everyone's devices are kind of
interconnected between work andhome. And I think it's becoming
more and more important to bepassword lists. Because
attackers are using those stolencredentials, like you said, to
(15:38):
conduct ransomware attacks thatlead to data breaches, phishing
campaigns, credential stuffingattacks, which are also on the
rise. The goal of the past keysis to eliminate credentials as a
target and not give attackersanything to fish. Currently,
training awareness is the wayenterprises try and protect
against phishing. And like yousaid, again, it's put on the
(16:01):
user more so to be aware ofmisspellings in the emails or
other signs of phishing email.But as generative AI becomes
better phishing scams aregetting more and more complex,
and it's easier and easier totrick people. So increased
security is critical, like usingpass keys and things like that,
that don't even have theusername and passwords for
attackers to target.
Antone Gonsalves (16:23):
Okay, so how does pass keys work? What are
what are they know that me as auser, what would this past key
look like? Well, what would itbe?
Unknown (16:33):
Oh, yeah. So they usually use biometrics, it could
be like a fingerprint, face ID,you can use it just through your
phone. So just eliminates theneed for you to remember any
passwords, or anything likethat. I think people have like
up to 200 passwords sometimes.
Antone Gonsalves (16:51):
Sure, I've got over 100 in my password. But
that's not unusual. I readyesterday, that average is like
100, passwords. Okay, so whatwe're talking about is other
forms of authentication, mybiometrics or whatever else,
yeah, that you mentioned, Iguess for this to all work if
we're gonna get rid ofpasswords, and we're gonna have
(17:14):
companies like Microsoft, Googlemeta, you know, IT companies or
billions of users, if they makethe move? And then then we're,
that would do a lot to push thewhole movement. So is there any
is there anything? Is there anysigns that that are? That that's
happening? I the big, big peopleinvolved, the big
Unknown (17:37):
Google actually unveiled passkey options
yesterday. And they build it aslike the beginning of the end of
the password. So for Google'spaths, keys, users can choose
between a pin facialrecognition, or a fingerprint
authentication. So yeah, soGoogle, Google coming into the
(17:57):
picture is definitely a bigthing. I think the passwordless
adoption is really on the usersbecause they're the ones that
need to implement it. And if theif big companies like that, you
know, are using it, then I thinkit will be widely adopted more
quickly. But the transition willtake some time. Still, even,
(18:20):
it'll probably be in a hybridversion for a few more years to
come with a mix of people usingpasswords and usernames, and
others adopting paths, keys orother password lists,
authentication options, but itdoes seem to be taking off
really quickly.
Antone Gonsalves (18:35):
It seems like two factor authentication was
kind of it was the first steptowards this, because I do that,
whenever I can on websites, Iput in the password, and then I
use my authenticator. So itseems like this is okay. So
we've, I guess, the securityindustry or companies have
(18:56):
gotten people used to the ideaof two factor authentication. So
that would be like a big steptowards to eventually just
removing the use of the passwordcompletely. Once people get used
to authenticators and, I don'tknow, biometric sensors, that
type of thing.
Unknown (19:12):
Yeah, definitely. vendors have said that password
this will eliminate the need formultifactor authentication.
Eventually. Some problems withmulti factor authentication is,
for example, you could choose toauthenticate through a text
message. But phishing has becomeso bad that attackers you may
not even notice the phishinglink or something like that, and
(19:34):
they can kind of trick you evenwhen you're trying to
authenticate. So attackers aredefinitely finding ways to
bypass MFA authentication, so wejust have to try to keep ahead
of them keep getting better withour passwords.
Antone Gonsalves (19:47):
Alright, that wraps up this week's show.
Thanks for watching and enjoythe weekend.
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