December 13, 2023 • 29 mins
Fear of failing stops many of us from tackling curiosities or opening doors on new adventures, but what if we could live without that anxiety of falling from heights? For today's guest, Rachel Suter, mitigating that fear comes down to confidence in her plans, counting from three and leaping from the (in this case literal) precipice. Suter, an undergraduate at the University of Colorado Boulder, is majoring in neuroscience and art practices, dives at Casa Bonita and for CU Boulder's club diving team, works in the College of Arts and Sciences' student government, professionally models and more. On today's episode, she discusses her desire to dabble and try interests, her "why not?" attitude and her strategies for staying calm before stepping out into the unknown.
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Check out Suter's artwork on Instagram, @rachelsuterart.
Music by Nelson Walker.
Episodes recorded at Interplay Recording in Boulder, CO.
Written and produced by Erika Randall and Tim Grassley.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[CRANKING]
(00:02):
ERIKA RANDALL (00:03):
A and S.
[REGISTER CHIMING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
I imagine Rachel Suterstanding on a cliff edge
beside a small waterfall,preparing for her first dive
into a glowingpool 30 feet below.
(00:24):
The pool literally glows becauseRachel performs her dives
at the freshly renovated CasaBonita restaurant in Denver.
The way the water blendsin and out of sapphire blue
reminds her of hernewest painting,
exploring neurologicaldegeneration, which reminds her
in turn to finish herneuroscience homework
before she can get to hernext student body government
meeting.
I imagine she takes one secondto recognize the wafting
(00:45):
smell of tacos, the shoutsat Black Bart's Cave,
and her fellow performerin a gorilla costume,
milling among the hundredsof patrons who have
turned their attention to her.
She takes a breath, countsback from three, and soars.
[SPLASH]
(01:11):
I can't imagine a moresurprising person than Rachel.
She crafts gorgeous visual artbased on scientific systems
and principles she explores inher neuroscience coursework.
She guides the Collegeof Arts and Sciences
student body as vice president.
She's a model, she dives, and Iget the feeling these are just
the obvious interests.
As you will discoverin today's episode,
Rachel lives out thealchemy of anding with ease,
(01:34):
but it's her unassuming,low-key, might I say quiet,
fearlessness that'sso disarming.
Rachel seems like someone whocan take on anything once she
walks to the cliffedge, takes a breath,
and counts back from three.
On The Ampersand, we callthis "bringing together
of the impossible,""the alchemy of anding."
(01:55):
Together, we'll hear stories ofhumans who imagine and create
by colliding their interests.
Rather than thinking of"and" as a simple conjunction
in that conjunctionjunction kind of way,
we will hear stories of peoplewho see "and" as a verb, a way
to speak the beautifulwhen you intentionally
let the soft animal of yourbody love what it loves.
As St. Mary Oliverasks, what is it you
(02:17):
plan to do with your onewild and precious life?
Oh, I love this question.
When I'm mothering,creating, and collaborating,
it reminds me toreplace a singular
idea of what I think I shouldbecome with a full sensory verb
about experiencing.
I'm Erika Randall.
This is Rachel Suteron The Ampersand.
(02:38):
[MUSIC PLAYING]
RACHEL SUTER (02:47):
When I was younger,
I always wanted to dive,but I couldn't because I
have pretty bad eczema.
So I couldn't younger, butI was a competitive gymnast,
and then following that,I did competitive dance.
So, you know, justparallel sports, almost.
And then senioryear of high school,
I just kind of decided likeend of COVID, I'm really bored.
(03:09):
I'm just going to give it atry, you know, just for fun?
ERIKA RANDALL (03:12):
Screw the eczema.
There's oatmeal baths for that.
RACHEL SUTER (03:14):
So true.
ERIKA RANDALL (03:15):
Yeah.
[LAUGHS] My kiddo has eczema.
OK, so you're going to try it.
RACHEL SUTER (03:19):
Yes.
ERIKA RANDALL (03:20):
You're going to go in.
RACHEL SUTER (03:21):
Mm-hmm, and like, in the past,
I had gone cliff divingwith friends just at lakes
and vacations and--
ERIKA RANDALL: See, again, you say (03:27):
undefined
that so casually-- in thepast, I'd gone cliff diving.
There isn't a worldwhere I walk up
to the edge of somethingactual and jump off of it.
There was no fear for you there.
RACHEL SUTER (03:38):
Yeah, I have two brothers,
and they're the typethat they see a cliff,
and they will jump off of it.
And I just don't want to beleft out of that, you know?
So and then, yeah, just havingthe gymnastics background,
having that.
And the worst that couldhappen in gymnastics
is you fall on areally hard surface,
and that's really scary.
(03:58):
But with diving, it's likeyou're falling on water,
so there's only so muchbad that could happen.
And the hurt, it'sgoing to hurt,
but it won't last that long.
And cliff diving, Idon't go from too high,
so the risk is minimal.
But I think themost important thing
is when I do like theone, two, three count,
(04:20):
I have to trust myself that I'mgoing to go for it, you know?
And it's like--
ERIKA RANDALL (04:24):
Is that what you say literally every time--
RACHEL SUTER (04:26):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (04:26):
--you get to the edge?
RACHEL SUTER (04:27):
Yep.
Yeah--
ERIKA RANDALL (04:29):
OK, well, I want to hear it.
Walk me through.
RACHEL SUTER (04:30):
Oh.
ERIKA RANDALL (04:31):
Put me in your body.
RACHEL SUTER (04:33):
Oh, man.
Yeah, I think it's just a quickvisualization of the dive.
I mean, if it's a forward diveor a backflip, not too much.
It's pretty simple.
But if it's more oflike a twisty dive,
just stepping throughwhat my arms are going
to do and whatnot, andthen standing on the edge,
marking my place in the water.
And if it's a smallerpool, just making
(04:54):
a plan for what I'm goingto do underwater because you
can flip out of it either way.
And so choosing spaceand also choosing
if I'm going to flipout of it right away
or if it's safe enough to go andbounce off the bottom almost,
which I can do it,pools like Casa Bonita,
but I can't at cliff divingspots like Paradise Cove.
So, yeah, just making aplan, going through it,
(05:16):
and then just counting off,like one, two, three, go,
and just trusting thaton three, I would go.
ERIKA RANDALL (05:24):
Life lessons with Rachel Suter,
making a plan, trusting it.
One, two, three, go.
OK, so is that what took youto interview at Casa Bonita,
that just one, two,three, go, let's do this?
RACHEL SUTER (05:41):
Yeah.
I mean, I didn'texpect to get the job.
So it was more of a,"I might as well."
That would just be so cool.
I have a dancebackground, so I have
the performance aspect and--
ERIKA RANDALL (05:55):
And had you been there
as a kiddo if you'refrom the Springs?
RACHEL SUTER (05:58):
No, I'd heard all about it,
but I had never actually been.
ERIKA RANDALL (06:01):
OK, so you heard the lore.
RACHEL SUTER (06:03):
Yes.
ERIKA RANDALL (06:03):
But you had never been and had the terrible taco
salad with thepepto-bismol chaser.
RACHEL SUTER (06:07):
Never had it.
ERIKA RANDALL (06:09):
Never had it.
And did you hearabout how there used
to be the electrical room atthe bottom of the dive pool?
RACHEL SUTER (06:14):
They fixed that.
ERIKA RANDALL (06:15):
OK.
[LAUGHS]
RACHEL SUTER (06:17):
It's all safe, yes, but--
ERIKA RANDALL (06:19):
And we know that you're
sworn to secrecybecause we're recording
this in the land of June,and you're not-- right?
And we will disclose nothing.
Even though we will bespeaking to the past
because this willair later, we're
still going to honor ourcontractual agreements
because you'rethat kind of human.
But you went to the interview.
RACHEL SUTER (06:38):
Yeah, so I ended up going because just so many
of my friends and familyhad just been like,
oh, you have to.
You dive.
You just have to do it.
I was like, OK.
ERIKA RANDALL (06:47):
And I know that this has already
been leaked that there canbe multiple divers at a time
through math, or isthat just internet lore?
Maybe Rachel can't say--
RACHEL SUTER (06:56):
I don't know if I'm allowed to tell you that.
ERIKA RANDALL (06:57):
OK, I'm gonna wait.
RACHEL SUTER (06:58):
You're going to have to find out.
ERIKA RANDALL (07:00):
I can't wait.
I'm so going to CasaBonita to watch you dive.
RACHEL SUTER (07:03):
I can't wait.
ERIKA RANDALL (07:04):
I will wait in line.
I will eat thehopefully better food.
I will drink the gobletsjust to watch you,
and then I will be anoverly proud cheer mom.
RACHEL SUTER (07:11):
Aw.
ERIKA RANDALL (07:12):
It's going to be so great.
So when we think aboutthis pattern of success,
this way that you set upthe visualization, all
of the things, doesthis show up for you
in other ways in your life?
Because on top of being now thisenigmatic Casa Bonita diver,
you are also aneuroscience student.
You're also a visual artist.
(07:32):
You are on student government.
You are a leaderin your community.
You are one of thekindest humans I know.
And, and, and, and thenyou tell me you model,
and I just couldn't even putthat part into the Rachel egg.
Talk to me about if thatmethod for getting to the edge
and looking over, does thatserve you in other spaces?
RACHEL SUTER (07:55):
Yeah, it's more of like, I'm young
and I know that thisis the time in my life
where I will most beable to try new things
and pursue different thingsand have no consequences if it
doesn't work out.
And so--
ERIKA RANDALL: OK, wait a second. (08:10):
undefined
You really just have thatfreedom in your mind,
like this is thetime when I'm young.
How good were yourparents, or did they just
never know if you were home?
RACHEL SUTER (08:23):
[LAUGHS] No, my parents are amazing.
They-- very adventurous.
Pushed us, my brothers andI, all to try new things
and just be confidentin what we're doing.
ERIKA RANDALL (08:33):
Did they throw you into the pool
when you were a little kidwith all your clothes on
and see if you would drown?
RACHEL SUTER (08:38):
I don't know, but they might have.
ERIKA RANDALL (08:39):
They might.
They were that parenting book.
RACHEL SUTER (08:42):
Yes.
And just if we had a littleinterest in something,
they would help us and supportus and provide the materials
to do those, which Ireally appreciate and I
know not everybody has.
And so I thinkthat definitely has
allowed me to becomea better artist
and interested insciences because they
allowed me to have those,yeah, resources as a kid.
(09:05):
And so now that I have thefreedom of my own time,
I'm able to explore those.
ERIKA RANDALL (09:11):
Were science and art always married for you?
Because when I look atyour art first of all,
it's astounding to me.
RACHEL SUTER (09:16):
Thank you.
ERIKA RANDALL (09:17):
I had seen the original piece that you shared
with me with the viscous--
this gesture of hands underthe sternum and the heart
dripping out of your cage.
And then there were otherthings that showed up
in your art, this perspective,detail, that kind of pencil
sketch fury.
Like, there's a quicknessthat also maybe is not
(09:37):
showing how much time it takes.
I mean, it's a lot of time.
RACHEL SUTER (09:42):
Yes, quite.
And a project will takeprobably 15 more hours.
It really depends.
But the more time consuming partis the research and development
portion.
ERIKA RANDALL (09:55):
Yes, and you can see that the science is in it.
And the researchis in the science.
Yes, OK.
RACHEL SUTER (10:00):
Yeah, because a lot of my art
does deal withscientific topics.
A lot of times, I just don'teven know what I want to do,
and it starts withthe research and just
taking notes anddeciding on a topic
that I like and I'mpassionate about.
And so I'll continuedoing research
and start with little 1 inchby 1 inch thumbnail sketches
(10:20):
of little ideas I could do.
ERIKA RANDALL (10:22):
Kind of storyboarding?
RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, a little bit. (10:23):
undefined
ERIKA RANDALL (10:24):
I felt that in the timeline,
there were these little--
is it like that, those kind ofrough sketches that show, oh,
here's a spark thatconnects me to this idea?
RACHEL SUTER (10:32):
Yeah, my rough draft pages
are quite a bit morechaotic than that.
I can show you a few more.
ERIKA RANDALL (10:40):
OK, I do want you to show me.
Show me a sketchbecause I want--
RACHEL SUTER (10:43):
OK, yes, so it starts
with just a lot of researchand then thumbnail sketches.
And then it almostbecomes a conversation
on the page of, oh, I likethis idea, but not this.
I'll show you the--
so here's for theproject I showed you.
And it startedwith the research.
So it's a way to have aconversation with myself
(11:03):
because I never know what it'sgoing to be when I first start.
And it goes throughso many stages.
And sometimes what Iend up with is not even
on the same topic aswhat I began with.
ERIKA RANDALL (11:13):
And are you starting-- so you're
starting from the science.
Is it the science that's beensparked to you in a class
or just that you'rereading about
and that you're curious about?
RACHEL SUTER (11:20):
Ooh, it depends.
In high school,junior year, I did
an investigationof medical history,
and so just research of themost prominent and influential
moments throughoutmedical history.
And then senioryear, it was just
a history of STEM and justimportant moments there.
But so that was more justme researching on my own,
(11:42):
but now a lot ofmy pieces, I try
to correlate to neuroscience.
And sometimes that relatesreally strongly to my classes.
I mean, I haven'tbeen to medical school
or really pursued any of thesescientific topics in depth,
so I'm not trying to createa just completely realistic
and to the science image.
It's more of a interpretation.
(12:04):
And yeah, so I've beenleaning into that a lot more.
ERIKA RANDALL (12:08):
And it also feels educational.
Like, when I lookedat this, I thought,
this is how you get youngerfolks stoked on science, right?
Did that happen foryou as a young person?
Did you see something that wasrepresentative in that kind
of internal, emotional, notnecessarily technical, way,
or is this just howyour brain works?
RACHEL SUTER (12:27):
I don't know.
I think it's just how it works.
And I didn't start it offcombining science and art.
It was always, when Iwas younger, separate.
And art was justmy-- in my free time,
I loved to do it, and not forany purpose, not for my career,
but just because I love it.
And I always plannedon going to med school.
So they sat in veryseparate boxes.
(12:49):
And so it was in high schoolthat I started combining them,
and I was like,oh, this is cool,
but they're still sittingin separate boxes.
I'm still going to go to medschool and keep art as just
a for fun sort of thing.
And then lastsemester, I discovered
that medicalillustration is a career.
And--
ERIKA RANDALL (13:04):
And the anding happened.
RACHEL SUTER (13:05):
Yeah, and so suddenly these two things
that I never thought thatI could professionally
combine for a career, I can.
And I'm quiteexcited because I've
been doing both mywhole life, but not
expecting to be able to.
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (13:19):
In separate glasses.
And now this is what I'mtalking about with this kind
of unified egg,is it spills open,
and then there'sall of it inside.
That's a moment of discovery.
And did it happenlike lightning bolt?
Was it in a class?
Was it with a professor?
Was it a mentor whoshowed you this career?
RACHEL SUTER (13:36):
It was kind of all at once a little bit.
My art professor, atthe time, was like,
you could make yourcareer out of this.
I had done a pieceon neuroanatomy,
and then my molecular biologyprofessor was like, oh,
did you know there'sscientific art?
And then I had also seen avideo online of somebody getting
their masters andjust the illustrations
(13:58):
that they haddone, that they had
gotten to sit in on surgeriesand draw the steps and whatnot.
ERIKA RANDALL (14:04):
This is so 1800s.
RACHEL SUTER (14:06):
[LAUGHS] I know.
It's so fun.
ERIKA RANDALL (14:09):
It's so fun, and it still is happening.
Do you draw on thiscomputer thing all the time?
RACHEL SUTER (14:14):
Not all the time.
I usually more usemy iPad for planning,
but I do have somedigital pieces in there.
ERIKA RANDALL (14:21):
But because it seems like you're
working a lot with ink,pencil, like texture.
Yeah, and so that'sactually physical material
in the luddite world,not technology.
Oh, I love that thereis a career that
has been waiting for you.
RACHEL SUTER (14:33):
I do, too.
ERIKA RANDALL (14:34):
OK, so how does student government work
in all this?
How does thisadvocacy work happen?
[LAUGHTER]
RACHEL SUTER (14:42):
That's like one of the separate things
where I do all the otherthings, and I forget.
I'm like, oh, yeah, I dothat sometimes, you know?
Yeah, I also joinedstudent government
my senior year of high school.
Just why not?
And I really enjoyed that.
So then when I came here,I joined Arts and Sciences
student government.
At the time, it was less thanit is now substantially, but--
ERIKA RANDALL (15:05):
Proud of that.
RACHEL SUTER (15:06):
Yeah.
But yeah--
ERIKA RANDALL (15:08):
But building student voice and advocacy,
that's a big thing for you andthis notion of really building
your voice.
What does future Rachel--
does future Rachel haveexpectations of now
Rachel, or is she pretty happy?
She kind of likes the way--
the mystery?
RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, I don't know. (15:25):
undefined
ERIKA RANDALL (15:27):
When you're looking to her,
what do you see?
RACHEL SUTER (15:32):
I'm not really sure.
I think it's like my outlookon my future has changed a lot
recently, given drastic careerchoice doesn't-- you know,
but so I don't really know.
I think the mostimportant thing I
feel like when I think aboutlooking back in the future is,
I don't want to regret nothaving done something or not
(15:54):
having done it well enough.
Or yeah, I want to have trieda little bit of everything
and just--
ERIKA RANDALL (16:00):
How do you know what's well enough?
I look at your work, andI mean, truly, I love it.
I think about you on the cliffedge, and I'm stunned by it.
Diving scores, are they in 10s?
Does it go to 10?
RACHEL SUTER (16:14):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (16:14):
Yeah.
What's well enough for-- isit like you got to be a nine?
Like, what's a goodscore on the diveometer?
RACHEL SUTER (16:21):
Well, for diving in particular?
ERIKA RANDALL (16:23):
No, as a metaphor for Rachel looking at her life
and thinking, ah, I'vecombined this, I've tried this,
I've done this well enough.
RACHEL SUTER (16:32):
That's a good question.
I think I like to do itto the best of my ability.
And sometimes there'scircumstances where I can't.
And that is incrediblyfrustrating for me.
ERIKA RANDALL (16:42):
Belly-flop.
Smack.
RACHEL SUTER (16:43):
Right.
So it's more of just like makingthe most of it to my capacity
and trying to accept ifI can't, that's OK, too.
And--
ERIKA RANDALL (16:53):
You had really good parents.
RACHEL SUTER (16:55):
Yeah, I know.
[LAUGHS] Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (17:00):
Yeah, and the fearless spirit
that started as this tagalongthird kid, two brothers,
but you've cultivated it.
I mean, you could lookinto like over a cliff
or over the cliff of abody into the bloody parts
and be totally fine, unlikeGrassley, who told me
a story that I won't air.
(17:23):
I'll let him shareit in an interview,
but doesn't do sowell with the blood.
Yeah, and it came up evenlooking at one of your works
because it's so viscous.
For you, that, no fear?
RACHEL SUTER (17:35):
Mm-mm.
Yeah, I've watchedsurgeries and whatnot.
ERIKA RANDALL: Live in real-time? (17:39):
undefined
RACHEL SUTER (17:40):
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (17:42):
Like, what?
RACHEL SUTER (17:43):
When I was a freshman in high school,
I shadowed ananesthesiologist for a day
and saw a lot ofsurgeries there.
And then last summer, Idid an internship in Greece
and just got to watchsurgeries for a month.
ERIKA RANDALL (17:58):
What's the coolest surgery you saw?
RACHEL SUTER (18:00):
Ooh.
I would say probablyjust craziest
is like the hip replacementsand the crazy orthopedic--
ERIKA RANDALL (18:09):
Do you know about my hip situation?
RACHEL SUTER (18:11):
No.
ERIKA RANDALL (18:12):
I had a total hip reconstruction with four screws
like Wolverine-style.
I want to show you.
RACHEL SUTER (18:19):
Yes, please.
ERIKA RANDALL: OK, I have x-rays. (18:19):
undefined
RACHEL SUTER (18:20):
Yay.
ERIKA RANDALL (18:21):
I love that you're excited.
Most people, I'm like,can I text you this?
They're like, no.
[LAUGHS] So yousaw a replacement
or a reconstruction of a hip?
RACHEL SUTER (18:29):
Replacement.
I saw lots.
ERIKA RANDALL (18:31):
You saw lots?
RACHEL SUTER (18:32):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (18:33):
I want a drawing of that.
RACHEL SUTER (18:35):
I did sketch one of the surgeries.
I have it somewhere.
I actually-- yes, I do, I do.
And in Greece, their rulesare a little bit different.
And so one of the doctors--
ERIKA RANDALL (18:49):
Is that why you went there?
RACHEL SUTER (18:51):
No, I had no idea.
I just wanted to go to Greece.
ERIKA RANDALL (18:53):
Smart.
Why not?
Cliff diving, and youfound that so fast.
Whoa, this is totally court--
I don't know what you callthe court stenographer.
It's not--
RACHEL SUTER (19:00):
I don't either.
ERIKA RANDALL (19:02):
Wow.
I love even how thesurgeon looking on
is holding their hands.
Can you talk to me about hands?
Because they come up a lot, bothin your work and just the way
you use them to make it.
Are they an importantfocus for you?
RACHEL SUTER (19:16):
I don't mean them to be,
but they do just appearin a lot of my work.
And I think it'slike almost a way
to describe human nature orjust emotion without having
to do a portrait.
It feels less on thenose for me a little bit.
ERIKA RANDALL (19:33):
Yeah, the way the hands operate in the moment.
RACHEL SUTER (19:35):
Yeah, and I love drawing them and painting them.
It's just fun, but yeah, just,I think it, a lot of times,
fits into the storythat I'm trying to tell.
So it ends up ina lot of my work,
even though I don't meanto have a series of hands.
ERIKA RANDALL: No, and it doesn't (19:49):
undefined
feel like a series of hands.
It just feels important.
Are you a natural reflector?
It seems so in your art.
And so in thatnatural reflection,
is that part of the planning?
Is that part of the visualizing,that backwards to go forward?
RACHEL SUTER (20:02):
Yeah, especially in the pieces and art pieces
that are a little bit more likeself portrait or reflective
of my own feelings and thoughtsand desires and whatnot.
Those that are morescientific, a little bit less
and it's a little bitmore factually driven.
And so it's really fun gettingto do a little bit of each.
ERIKA RANDALL (20:23):
Do you ever feel like you're doing too much?
RACHEL SUTER (20:25):
Yeah, sometimes.
But I wouldn'twant to stop doing
any of the thingsI'm doing, and it's
been hard to learn to takea step back sometimes.
But--
ERIKA RANDALL (20:37):
What are your signs that say, step back?
Is it like when--
what is does too muchlook like for you?
So we talked about kind of likewhat does success look like,
but what is too much, toomany, all the things at once?
How do you know?
What does yourbrain tell you when
it blows out the back of yourhead in that beautiful drawing?
RACHEL SUTER (20:54):
It's kind of when I
start enjoying the timewithout those things
more than the time I'mspending with them.
And yeah, like whenI'm sitting and looking
at a task or responsibility Ihave and dreading it, you know?
And I could be dreading thatbecause of something else
(21:15):
that's pressing onme, or it's just
like that task is no longerthat fulfilling to me.
And so, the fact thatI have that freedom
to then step away fromthose things is really nice.
ERIKA RANDALL (21:25):
But it is.
It's kind of thatdread that is your cue.
Like, ooh, Rachel,get back in the game.
RACHEL SUTER (21:30):
Yep.
ERIKA RANDALL (21:31):
Yep, and then one, two, three, go.
RACHEL SUTER (21:33):
Yep, yeah.
Yeah, I originally majoredin art, just as a way--
because I knowI'm a busy person.
I need to fill mytime, or I just
don't feel like as,I guess, fulfilled.
And so I knew thatgoing into college
and originally wantingto go to med school,
I was like, only goingto major in neuroscience.
(21:54):
And then I decided.
I was like, I'm goingto need to structure
in some time in myday intentionally
for the things I love.
And so that's prettymuch the only reason
I majored in art as well, wasso that I could be forced to--
ERIKA RANDALL (22:07):
Hold that space.
RACHEL SUTER (22:09):
Yes, hold that space.
ERIKA RANDALL (22:10):
For the thing you loved
while you did this other thingthat you were going to do.
RACHEL SUTER (22:14):
Right.
ERIKA RANDALL (22:14):
Yeah.
RACHEL SUTER (22:15):
Which I also adore neuroscience, but yeah,
it was just like,I think sometimes I
have to also schedule inspace for the things that
are important to me.
And so it's exciting thatthat worked out really
well with art.
And yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (22:29):
And do you feel a loss
in letting go ofthe Dr. Rachel part,
or do you feel just fullgain as they come together?
RACHEL SUTER (22:37):
A little bit of loss,
but the more I sit with it, themore I realize is that like,
I'm more fascinated bythe learning aspect of it
and just my fascinationof the human body,
but actually being apractitioner and doctor, that
is less appealing.
It's more that I justwant to know, you know?
And so this new career, it'slike I can make a career out
(23:01):
of always doing artand always learning.
I will always be learningsomething new, which
is quite exciting for me, andmy days won't be redundant.
And the other exciting thing isthat I can have a career where
I get to listen to audiobooks.
And that is a big thing for me.
ERIKA RANDALL (23:18):
So while you're drawing,
you're listening toa different story?
RACHEL SUTER (23:22):
Yes.
ERIKA RANDALL (23:23):
[LAUGHS]
RACHEL SUTER (23:24):
Yeah, I can't do art if there's not like a--
ERIKA RANDALL (23:28):
So you're not in the research of the heart.
You're listening toMichelle Obama's memoir?
RACHEL SUTER (23:36):
Well, the research part, that's--
ERIKA RANDALL (23:38):
It's already happened.
It's done.
RACHEL SUTER (23:39):
The research part, I'm accompanied
by classical music, you know?
I love classical, sothat's where I get that.
But once I'm into theprocess and it's just
painting for 15hours, it's like, I
don't want to sit with mythoughts for quite that long,
you know?
ERIKA RANDALL (23:54):
So what's the last thing
you painted, and what audiobookwere you listening to?
RACHEL SUTER (23:57):
Oh, I just finished
a painting of the Flatironas like a grad gift,
and I was listening to a bookcalled The Name of the Wind.
I just finished it yesterday,and it was really, really good.
But it's so funbecause sometimes I
can look back at apainting or a drawing
and see and think of exactlywhere I was in the book
when I was doingthat detail or--
(24:17):
you know?
So it's kind of fun.
ERIKA RANDALL (24:20):
I can't believe those things converge
in your world.
I want to hear anotherdrawing and another book
that you listen to.
RACHEL SUTER (24:27):
Oh, uh--
ERIKA RANDALL (24:28):
Because it seems like you catalog them in a way.
RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, a little bit. (24:30):
undefined
I'm trying to think.
I think this one, Iwas watching a TV show.
Unusual for me.
ERIKA RANDALL (24:35):
But not Gray's Anatomy.
RACHEL SUTER (24:37):
No, it was Peaky Blinders.
ERIKA RANDALL (24:40):
The hip surgery and Peaky Blinders.
RACHEL SUTER (24:42):
Yes.
[LAUGHTER]
ERIKA RANDALL (24:44):
This is some excellent anding.
Give me another one.
I could do this all day.
RACHEL SUTER (24:47):
Oh, man, the one with the rib cage
and the visceralheart, I was listening
to just an epic fantasycalled The Way of Kings.
ERIKA RANDALL (24:55):
Love.
RACHEL SUTER (24:56):
Yeah, it was--
ERIKA RANDALL: This triangulation (24:58):
undefined
is so up my alley.
OK, more.
RACHEL SUTER (25:01):
Oh, goodness.
I'm trying to thinkof pieces right now.
ERIKA RANDALL (25:04):
OK, what about the Morse code?
Because I love theMorse code one.
What were you listening to?
RACHEL SUTER (25:10):
Ooh.
I did that like 3and 1/2 years ago.
I don't know if I can remember.
But a fun factabout that painting,
like the Morse code in it, it'slike the history of Morse code,
but in Morse code.
ERIKA RANDALL (25:23):
Shut the front door.
RACHEL SUTER (25:24):
Isn't that so fun?
ERIKA RANDALL (25:25):
That's why I'm talking about the egg.
You are one fabergeegg inside of another,
all these little nesting eggs.
So the Morse code in thepainting is saying something.
RACHEL SUTER (25:35):
Yeah, so I've forgotten it by now,
but at the time, Ilearned Morse code
so then I could put myresearch into the painting.
It was a good time.
ERIKA RANDALL (25:44):
Snaps to that, Rachel.
That's amazing.
OK, it's time.
It's time.
It's time.
It's time for theQuick and Dirty.
I look to producerTim Grassley to see
if my internal clock is right.
This is a game showwhere you cannot lose,
and it is you against yourself.
RACHEL SUTER (25:59):
Oh, man.
ERIKA RANDALL (26:00):
One, two, three, go.
RACHEL SUTER (26:02):
All right.
ERIKA RANDALL (26:03):
OK, your next and art piece.
What are you workingon that you're anding?
RACHEL SUTER (26:10):
I want to do a little bit more figure drawing,
but integrating anatomyinto it, and so just, I
guess, learning aboutboth in the same vein.
I'm taking both figure drawingand anatomy lab next semester,
so I look forwardto combining those.
ERIKA RANDALL (26:25):
Fantastic.
Two or three art materialsthat you would have
to have on a desert island?
RACHEL SUTER (26:30):
The really cheap $0.50 BIC pens.
I love those.
Oh, my gosh, one of my favoriteart materials, and some paper
and watercolors.
ERIKA RANDALL (26:39):
OK, your diving theme song with and in it.
Are you ever diving witha song in your head,
or are you just onthe one, two, three?
RACHEL SUTER (26:47):
It's really the last song I listened to,
and it plays onrepeat for two hours
until I can listen to a new one.
ERIKA RANDALL (26:52):
So what was that?
Any of them that have and in it?
RACHEL SUTER (26:54):
Oh, man.
I don't know.
ERIKA RANDALL (26:58):
You can even say like, in an island in the sun,
that Weezer song thathas and in island.
RACHEL SUTER (27:05):
Well, the problem is, I listen
to a lot of classical music.
ERIKA RANDALL (27:07):
Classical, OK, so like Beethoven and Bach?
RACHEL SUTER (27:10):
Yes, I'll say--
ERIKA RANDALL (27:12):
That's also not a problem.
I do, too.
RACHEL SUTER (27:14):
Yeah, I love it.
Oh, my gosh.
I'm forgetting all ofthe composers I love.
ERIKA RANDALL: Chopin and Schubert? (27:18):
undefined
RACHEL SUTER (27:20):
Yeah, I like a little bit more modern.
I don't know how topronounce his name too well.
It's like LudovicoEinaudi, Einaudi,
something like that-- excellent.
And who does the--
oh, I like Vivaldi.
ERIKA RANDALL (27:33):
OK, we can't be mad about Vivaldi.
OK, the best way tospend a Boulder afternoon
with your roomies.
RACHEL SUTER (27:40):
By the creek, I think.
And yeah, by the creekand just with them
and present, I suppose.
ERIKA RANDALL (27:49):
By the creek with them and present.
I love that.
An and-er you admire?
RACHEL SUTER (27:55):
Ooh, there's a neuroscientist.
His name is Oliver Sacks, and hekind of integrates both this--
he has this ability to putall these intense scientific
and neuroscientificconcepts and combine it
with psychology andlinguistics, and then
is able to perfectly portrayit to an audience that
(28:15):
has no idea what he wouldbe talking about otherwise.
ERIKA RANDALL (28:18):
So no jargon, just sharing it forward.
I love that.
All right, speakingof sharing forward,
you're giving agraduation speech.
You're sending folksoff into their next.
How would you begin?
And may you alwayshave warm pockets.
So start with your--what would your--
RACHEL SUTER (28:38):
Oh, my goodness.
I don't know.
ERIKA RANDALL (28:41):
No wrong answers.
RACHEL SUTER (28:42):
See, I gave my high school graduation speech,
and I sat on thisquestion for probably--
ERIKA RANDALL (28:47):
Of course you did.
RACHEL SUTER (28:48):
--days.
ERIKA RANDALL (28:51):
Yeah, but now, now you know so much more.
Now you're a diverat Casa Bonita.
RACHEL SUTER (28:55):
I think I would say, why not?
You know?
You're like, you'relooking at something.
You're wondering if you should.
Why not?
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ERIKA RANDALL (29:07):
That was Rachel Suter on The Ampersand.
To witness some ofRachel's incredible art,
see our show notes.
The Ampersand is aproduction of the College
of Arts and Sciences atthe University of Colorado,
Boulder.
It is written and producedby me, Erika Randall,
and Tim Grassley.
If there are people you'dlike us to interview
(29:29):
on The Ampersand,do please email us
at asinfo@colorado.eduOur theme music
was composed and performedby Nelson Walker.
And the episodes are recordedat Interplay Recording
in Boulder, Colorado.
I'm Erika Randall, andthis is The Ampersand.
[CRANKING]
(00:02):
ERIKA RANDALL (00:03):
A and S.
[REGISTER CHIMING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
I imagine Rachel Suterstanding on a cliff edge
beside a small waterfall,preparing for her first dive
into a glowingpool 30 feet below.
(00:24):
The pool literally glows becauseRachel performs her dives
at the freshly renovated CasaBonita restaurant in Denver.
The way the water blendsin and out of sapphire blue
reminds her of hernewest painting,
exploring neurologicaldegeneration, which reminds her
in turn to finish herneuroscience homework
before she can get to hernext student body government
meeting.
I imagine she takes one secondto recognize the wafting
(00:45):
smell of tacos, the shoutsat Black Bart's Cave,
and her fellow performerin a gorilla costume,
milling among the hundredsof patrons who have
turned their attention to her.
She takes a breath, countsback from three, and soars.
[SPLASH]
(01:11):
I can't imagine a moresurprising person than Rachel.
She crafts gorgeous visual artbased on scientific systems
and principles she explores inher neuroscience coursework.
She guides the Collegeof Arts and Sciences
student body as vice president.
She's a model, she dives, and Iget the feeling these are just
the obvious interests.
As you will discoverin today's episode,
Rachel lives out thealchemy of anding with ease,
(01:34):
but it's her unassuming,low-key, might I say quiet,
fearlessness that'sso disarming.
Rachel seems like someone whocan take on anything once she
walks to the cliffedge, takes a breath,
and counts back from three.
On The Ampersand, we callthis "bringing together
of the impossible,""the alchemy of anding."
(01:55):
Together, we'll hear stories ofhumans who imagine and create
by colliding their interests.
Rather than thinking of"and" as a simple conjunction
in that conjunctionjunction kind of way,
we will hear stories of peoplewho see "and" as a verb, a way
to speak the beautifulwhen you intentionally
let the soft animal of yourbody love what it loves.
As St. Mary Oliverasks, what is it you
(02:17):
plan to do with your onewild and precious life?
Oh, I love this question.
When I'm mothering,creating, and collaborating,
it reminds me toreplace a singular
idea of what I think I shouldbecome with a full sensory verb
about experiencing.
I'm Erika Randall.
This is Rachel Suteron The Ampersand.
(02:38):
[MUSIC PLAYING]
RACHEL SUTER (02:47):
When I was younger,
I always wanted to dive,but I couldn't because I
have pretty bad eczema.
So I couldn't younger, butI was a competitive gymnast,
and then following that,I did competitive dance.
So, you know, justparallel sports, almost.
And then senioryear of high school,
I just kind of decided likeend of COVID, I'm really bored.
(03:09):
I'm just going to give it atry, you know, just for fun?
ERIKA RANDALL (03:12):
Screw the eczema.
There's oatmeal baths for that.
RACHEL SUTER (03:14):
So true.
ERIKA RANDALL (03:15):
Yeah.
[LAUGHS] My kiddo has eczema.
OK, so you're going to try it.
RACHEL SUTER (03:19):
Yes.
ERIKA RANDALL (03:20):
You're going to go in.
RACHEL SUTER (03:21):
Mm-hmm, and like, in the past,
I had gone cliff divingwith friends just at lakes
and vacations and--
ERIKA RANDALL: See, again, you say (03:27):
undefined
that so casually-- in thepast, I'd gone cliff diving.
There isn't a worldwhere I walk up
to the edge of somethingactual and jump off of it.
There was no fear for you there.
RACHEL SUTER (03:38):
Yeah, I have two brothers,
and they're the typethat they see a cliff,
and they will jump off of it.
And I just don't want to beleft out of that, you know?
So and then, yeah, just havingthe gymnastics background,
having that.
And the worst that couldhappen in gymnastics
is you fall on areally hard surface,
and that's really scary.
(03:58):
But with diving, it's likeyou're falling on water,
so there's only so muchbad that could happen.
And the hurt, it'sgoing to hurt,
but it won't last that long.
And cliff diving, Idon't go from too high,
so the risk is minimal.
But I think themost important thing
is when I do like theone, two, three count,
(04:20):
I have to trust myself that I'mgoing to go for it, you know?
And it's like--
ERIKA RANDALL (04:24):
Is that what you say literally every time--
RACHEL SUTER (04:26):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (04:26):
--you get to the edge?
RACHEL SUTER (04:27):
Yep.
Yeah--
ERIKA RANDALL (04:29):
OK, well, I want to hear it.
Walk me through.
RACHEL SUTER (04:30):
Oh.
ERIKA RANDALL (04:31):
Put me in your body.
RACHEL SUTER (04:33):
Oh, man.
Yeah, I think it's just a quickvisualization of the dive.
I mean, if it's a forward diveor a backflip, not too much.
It's pretty simple.
But if it's more oflike a twisty dive,
just stepping throughwhat my arms are going
to do and whatnot, andthen standing on the edge,
marking my place in the water.
And if it's a smallerpool, just making
(04:54):
a plan for what I'm goingto do underwater because you
can flip out of it either way.
And so choosing spaceand also choosing
if I'm going to flipout of it right away
or if it's safe enough to go andbounce off the bottom almost,
which I can do it,pools like Casa Bonita,
but I can't at cliff divingspots like Paradise Cove.
So, yeah, just making aplan, going through it,
(05:16):
and then just counting off,like one, two, three, go,
and just trusting thaton three, I would go.
ERIKA RANDALL (05:24):
Life lessons with Rachel Suter,
making a plan, trusting it.
One, two, three, go.
OK, so is that what took youto interview at Casa Bonita,
that just one, two,three, go, let's do this?
RACHEL SUTER (05:41):
Yeah.
I mean, I didn'texpect to get the job.
So it was more of a,"I might as well."
That would just be so cool.
I have a dancebackground, so I have
the performance aspect and--
ERIKA RANDALL (05:55):
And had you been there
as a kiddo if you'refrom the Springs?
RACHEL SUTER (05:58):
No, I'd heard all about it,
but I had never actually been.
ERIKA RANDALL (06:01):
OK, so you heard the lore.
RACHEL SUTER (06:03):
Yes.
ERIKA RANDALL (06:03):
But you had never been and had the terrible taco
salad with thepepto-bismol chaser.
RACHEL SUTER (06:07):
Never had it.
ERIKA RANDALL (06:09):
Never had it.
And did you hearabout how there used
to be the electrical room atthe bottom of the dive pool?
RACHEL SUTER (06:14):
They fixed that.
ERIKA RANDALL (06:15):
OK.
[LAUGHS]
RACHEL SUTER (06:17):
It's all safe, yes, but--
ERIKA RANDALL (06:19):
And we know that you're
sworn to secrecybecause we're recording
this in the land of June,and you're not-- right?
And we will disclose nothing.
Even though we will bespeaking to the past
because this willair later, we're
still going to honor ourcontractual agreements
because you'rethat kind of human.
But you went to the interview.
RACHEL SUTER (06:38):
Yeah, so I ended up going because just so many
of my friends and familyhad just been like,
oh, you have to.
You dive.
You just have to do it.
I was like, OK.
ERIKA RANDALL (06:47):
And I know that this has already
been leaked that there canbe multiple divers at a time
through math, or isthat just internet lore?
Maybe Rachel can't say--
RACHEL SUTER (06:56):
I don't know if I'm allowed to tell you that.
ERIKA RANDALL (06:57):
OK, I'm gonna wait.
RACHEL SUTER (06:58):
You're going to have to find out.
ERIKA RANDALL (07:00):
I can't wait.
I'm so going to CasaBonita to watch you dive.
RACHEL SUTER (07:03):
I can't wait.
ERIKA RANDALL (07:04):
I will wait in line.
I will eat thehopefully better food.
I will drink the gobletsjust to watch you,
and then I will be anoverly proud cheer mom.
RACHEL SUTER (07:11):
Aw.
ERIKA RANDALL (07:12):
It's going to be so great.
So when we think aboutthis pattern of success,
this way that you set upthe visualization, all
of the things, doesthis show up for you
in other ways in your life?
Because on top of being now thisenigmatic Casa Bonita diver,
you are also aneuroscience student.
You're also a visual artist.
(07:32):
You are on student government.
You are a leaderin your community.
You are one of thekindest humans I know.
And, and, and, and thenyou tell me you model,
and I just couldn't even putthat part into the Rachel egg.
Talk to me about if thatmethod for getting to the edge
and looking over, does thatserve you in other spaces?
RACHEL SUTER (07:55):
Yeah, it's more of like, I'm young
and I know that thisis the time in my life
where I will most beable to try new things
and pursue different thingsand have no consequences if it
doesn't work out.
And so--
ERIKA RANDALL: OK, wait a second. (08:10):
undefined
You really just have thatfreedom in your mind,
like this is thetime when I'm young.
How good were yourparents, or did they just
never know if you were home?
RACHEL SUTER (08:23):
[LAUGHS] No, my parents are amazing.
They-- very adventurous.
Pushed us, my brothers andI, all to try new things
and just be confidentin what we're doing.
ERIKA RANDALL (08:33):
Did they throw you into the pool
when you were a little kidwith all your clothes on
and see if you would drown?
RACHEL SUTER (08:38):
I don't know, but they might have.
ERIKA RANDALL (08:39):
They might.
They were that parenting book.
RACHEL SUTER (08:42):
Yes.
And just if we had a littleinterest in something,
they would help us and supportus and provide the materials
to do those, which Ireally appreciate and I
know not everybody has.
And so I thinkthat definitely has
allowed me to becomea better artist
and interested insciences because they
allowed me to have those,yeah, resources as a kid.
(09:05):
And so now that I have thefreedom of my own time,
I'm able to explore those.
ERIKA RANDALL (09:11):
Were science and art always married for you?
Because when I look atyour art first of all,
it's astounding to me.
RACHEL SUTER (09:16):
Thank you.
ERIKA RANDALL (09:17):
I had seen the original piece that you shared
with me with the viscous--
this gesture of hands underthe sternum and the heart
dripping out of your cage.
And then there were otherthings that showed up
in your art, this perspective,detail, that kind of pencil
sketch fury.
Like, there's a quicknessthat also maybe is not
(09:37):
showing how much time it takes.
I mean, it's a lot of time.
RACHEL SUTER (09:42):
Yes, quite.
And a project will takeprobably 15 more hours.
It really depends.
But the more time consuming partis the research and development
portion.
ERIKA RANDALL (09:55):
Yes, and you can see that the science is in it.
And the researchis in the science.
Yes, OK.
RACHEL SUTER (10:00):
Yeah, because a lot of my art
does deal withscientific topics.
A lot of times, I just don'teven know what I want to do,
and it starts withthe research and just
taking notes anddeciding on a topic
that I like and I'mpassionate about.
And so I'll continuedoing research
and start with little 1 inchby 1 inch thumbnail sketches
(10:20):
of little ideas I could do.
ERIKA RANDALL (10:22):
Kind of storyboarding?
RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, a little bit. (10:23):
undefined
ERIKA RANDALL (10:24):
I felt that in the timeline,
there were these little--
is it like that, those kind ofrough sketches that show, oh,
here's a spark thatconnects me to this idea?
RACHEL SUTER (10:32):
Yeah, my rough draft pages
are quite a bit morechaotic than that.
I can show you a few more.
ERIKA RANDALL (10:40):
OK, I do want you to show me.
Show me a sketchbecause I want--
RACHEL SUTER (10:43):
OK, yes, so it starts
with just a lot of researchand then thumbnail sketches.
And then it almostbecomes a conversation
on the page of, oh, I likethis idea, but not this.
I'll show you the--
so here's for theproject I showed you.
And it startedwith the research.
So it's a way to have aconversation with myself
(11:03):
because I never know what it'sgoing to be when I first start.
And it goes throughso many stages.
And sometimes what Iend up with is not even
on the same topic aswhat I began with.
ERIKA RANDALL (11:13):
And are you starting-- so you're
starting from the science.
Is it the science that's beensparked to you in a class
or just that you'rereading about
and that you're curious about?
RACHEL SUTER (11:20):
Ooh, it depends.
In high school,junior year, I did
an investigationof medical history,
and so just research of themost prominent and influential
moments throughoutmedical history.
And then senioryear, it was just
a history of STEM and justimportant moments there.
But so that was more justme researching on my own,
(11:42):
but now a lot ofmy pieces, I try
to correlate to neuroscience.
And sometimes that relatesreally strongly to my classes.
I mean, I haven'tbeen to medical school
or really pursued any of thesescientific topics in depth,
so I'm not trying to createa just completely realistic
and to the science image.
It's more of a interpretation.
(12:04):
And yeah, so I've beenleaning into that a lot more.
ERIKA RANDALL (12:08):
And it also feels educational.
Like, when I lookedat this, I thought,
this is how you get youngerfolks stoked on science, right?
Did that happen foryou as a young person?
Did you see something that wasrepresentative in that kind
of internal, emotional, notnecessarily technical, way,
or is this just howyour brain works?
RACHEL SUTER (12:27):
I don't know.
I think it's just how it works.
And I didn't start it offcombining science and art.
It was always, when Iwas younger, separate.
And art was justmy-- in my free time,
I loved to do it, and not forany purpose, not for my career,
but just because I love it.
And I always plannedon going to med school.
So they sat in veryseparate boxes.
(12:49):
And so it was in high schoolthat I started combining them,
and I was like,oh, this is cool,
but they're still sittingin separate boxes.
I'm still going to go to medschool and keep art as just
a for fun sort of thing.
And then lastsemester, I discovered
that medicalillustration is a career.
And--
ERIKA RANDALL (13:04):
And the anding happened.
RACHEL SUTER (13:05):
Yeah, and so suddenly these two things
that I never thought thatI could professionally
combine for a career, I can.
And I'm quiteexcited because I've
been doing both mywhole life, but not
expecting to be able to.
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (13:19):
In separate glasses.
And now this is what I'mtalking about with this kind
of unified egg,is it spills open,
and then there'sall of it inside.
That's a moment of discovery.
And did it happenlike lightning bolt?
Was it in a class?
Was it with a professor?
Was it a mentor whoshowed you this career?
RACHEL SUTER (13:36):
It was kind of all at once a little bit.
My art professor, atthe time, was like,
you could make yourcareer out of this.
I had done a pieceon neuroanatomy,
and then my molecular biologyprofessor was like, oh,
did you know there'sscientific art?
And then I had also seen avideo online of somebody getting
their masters andjust the illustrations
(13:58):
that they haddone, that they had
gotten to sit in on surgeriesand draw the steps and whatnot.
ERIKA RANDALL (14:04):
This is so 1800s.
RACHEL SUTER (14:06):
[LAUGHS] I know.
It's so fun.
ERIKA RANDALL (14:09):
It's so fun, and it still is happening.
Do you draw on thiscomputer thing all the time?
RACHEL SUTER (14:14):
Not all the time.
I usually more usemy iPad for planning,
but I do have somedigital pieces in there.
ERIKA RANDALL (14:21):
But because it seems like you're
working a lot with ink,pencil, like texture.
Yeah, and so that'sactually physical material
in the luddite world,not technology.
Oh, I love that thereis a career that
has been waiting for you.
RACHEL SUTER (14:33):
I do, too.
ERIKA RANDALL (14:34):
OK, so how does student government work
in all this?
How does thisadvocacy work happen?
[LAUGHTER]
RACHEL SUTER (14:42):
That's like one of the separate things
where I do all the otherthings, and I forget.
I'm like, oh, yeah, I dothat sometimes, you know?
Yeah, I also joinedstudent government
my senior year of high school.
Just why not?
And I really enjoyed that.
So then when I came here,I joined Arts and Sciences
student government.
At the time, it was less thanit is now substantially, but--
ERIKA RANDALL (15:05):
Proud of that.
RACHEL SUTER (15:06):
Yeah.
But yeah--
ERIKA RANDALL (15:08):
But building student voice and advocacy,
that's a big thing for you andthis notion of really building
your voice.
What does future Rachel--
does future Rachel haveexpectations of now
Rachel, or is she pretty happy?
She kind of likes the way--
the mystery?
RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, I don't know. (15:25):
undefined
ERIKA RANDALL (15:27):
When you're looking to her,
what do you see?
RACHEL SUTER (15:32):
I'm not really sure.
I think it's like my outlookon my future has changed a lot
recently, given drastic careerchoice doesn't-- you know,
but so I don't really know.
I think the mostimportant thing I
feel like when I think aboutlooking back in the future is,
I don't want to regret nothaving done something or not
(15:54):
having done it well enough.
Or yeah, I want to have trieda little bit of everything
and just--
ERIKA RANDALL (16:00):
How do you know what's well enough?
I look at your work, andI mean, truly, I love it.
I think about you on the cliffedge, and I'm stunned by it.
Diving scores, are they in 10s?
Does it go to 10?
RACHEL SUTER (16:14):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (16:14):
Yeah.
What's well enough for-- isit like you got to be a nine?
Like, what's a goodscore on the diveometer?
RACHEL SUTER (16:21):
Well, for diving in particular?
ERIKA RANDALL (16:23):
No, as a metaphor for Rachel looking at her life
and thinking, ah, I'vecombined this, I've tried this,
I've done this well enough.
RACHEL SUTER (16:32):
That's a good question.
I think I like to do itto the best of my ability.
And sometimes there'scircumstances where I can't.
And that is incrediblyfrustrating for me.
ERIKA RANDALL (16:42):
Belly-flop.
Smack.
RACHEL SUTER (16:43):
Right.
So it's more of just like makingthe most of it to my capacity
and trying to accept ifI can't, that's OK, too.
And--
ERIKA RANDALL (16:53):
You had really good parents.
RACHEL SUTER (16:55):
Yeah, I know.
[LAUGHS] Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (17:00):
Yeah, and the fearless spirit
that started as this tagalongthird kid, two brothers,
but you've cultivated it.
I mean, you could lookinto like over a cliff
or over the cliff of abody into the bloody parts
and be totally fine, unlikeGrassley, who told me
a story that I won't air.
(17:23):
I'll let him shareit in an interview,
but doesn't do sowell with the blood.
Yeah, and it came up evenlooking at one of your works
because it's so viscous.
For you, that, no fear?
RACHEL SUTER (17:35):
Mm-mm.
Yeah, I've watchedsurgeries and whatnot.
ERIKA RANDALL: Live in real-time? (17:39):
undefined
RACHEL SUTER (17:40):
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (17:42):
Like, what?
RACHEL SUTER (17:43):
When I was a freshman in high school,
I shadowed ananesthesiologist for a day
and saw a lot ofsurgeries there.
And then last summer, Idid an internship in Greece
and just got to watchsurgeries for a month.
ERIKA RANDALL (17:58):
What's the coolest surgery you saw?
RACHEL SUTER (18:00):
Ooh.
I would say probablyjust craziest
is like the hip replacementsand the crazy orthopedic--
ERIKA RANDALL (18:09):
Do you know about my hip situation?
RACHEL SUTER (18:11):
No.
ERIKA RANDALL (18:12):
I had a total hip reconstruction with four screws
like Wolverine-style.
I want to show you.
RACHEL SUTER (18:19):
Yes, please.
ERIKA RANDALL: OK, I have x-rays. (18:19):
undefined
RACHEL SUTER (18:20):
Yay.
ERIKA RANDALL (18:21):
I love that you're excited.
Most people, I'm like,can I text you this?
They're like, no.
[LAUGHS] So yousaw a replacement
or a reconstruction of a hip?
RACHEL SUTER (18:29):
Replacement.
I saw lots.
ERIKA RANDALL (18:31):
You saw lots?
RACHEL SUTER (18:32):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (18:33):
I want a drawing of that.
RACHEL SUTER (18:35):
I did sketch one of the surgeries.
I have it somewhere.
I actually-- yes, I do, I do.
And in Greece, their rulesare a little bit different.
And so one of the doctors--
ERIKA RANDALL (18:49):
Is that why you went there?
RACHEL SUTER (18:51):
No, I had no idea.
I just wanted to go to Greece.
ERIKA RANDALL (18:53):
Smart.
Why not?
Cliff diving, and youfound that so fast.
Whoa, this is totally court--
I don't know what you callthe court stenographer.
It's not--
RACHEL SUTER (19:00):
I don't either.
ERIKA RANDALL (19:02):
Wow.
I love even how thesurgeon looking on
is holding their hands.
Can you talk to me about hands?
Because they come up a lot, bothin your work and just the way
you use them to make it.
Are they an importantfocus for you?
RACHEL SUTER (19:16):
I don't mean them to be,
but they do just appearin a lot of my work.
And I think it'slike almost a way
to describe human nature orjust emotion without having
to do a portrait.
It feels less on thenose for me a little bit.
ERIKA RANDALL (19:33):
Yeah, the way the hands operate in the moment.
RACHEL SUTER (19:35):
Yeah, and I love drawing them and painting them.
It's just fun, but yeah, just,I think it, a lot of times,
fits into the storythat I'm trying to tell.
So it ends up ina lot of my work,
even though I don't meanto have a series of hands.
ERIKA RANDALL: No, and it doesn't (19:49):
undefined
feel like a series of hands.
It just feels important.
Are you a natural reflector?
It seems so in your art.
And so in thatnatural reflection,
is that part of the planning?
Is that part of the visualizing,that backwards to go forward?
RACHEL SUTER (20:02):
Yeah, especially in the pieces and art pieces
that are a little bit more likeself portrait or reflective
of my own feelings and thoughtsand desires and whatnot.
Those that are morescientific, a little bit less
and it's a little bitmore factually driven.
And so it's really fun gettingto do a little bit of each.
ERIKA RANDALL (20:23):
Do you ever feel like you're doing too much?
RACHEL SUTER (20:25):
Yeah, sometimes.
But I wouldn'twant to stop doing
any of the thingsI'm doing, and it's
been hard to learn to takea step back sometimes.
But--
ERIKA RANDALL (20:37):
What are your signs that say, step back?
Is it like when--
what is does too muchlook like for you?
So we talked about kind of likewhat does success look like,
but what is too much, toomany, all the things at once?
How do you know?
What does yourbrain tell you when
it blows out the back of yourhead in that beautiful drawing?
RACHEL SUTER (20:54):
It's kind of when I
start enjoying the timewithout those things
more than the time I'mspending with them.
And yeah, like whenI'm sitting and looking
at a task or responsibility Ihave and dreading it, you know?
And I could be dreading thatbecause of something else
(21:15):
that's pressing onme, or it's just
like that task is no longerthat fulfilling to me.
And so, the fact thatI have that freedom
to then step away fromthose things is really nice.
ERIKA RANDALL (21:25):
But it is.
It's kind of thatdread that is your cue.
Like, ooh, Rachel,get back in the game.
RACHEL SUTER (21:30):
Yep.
ERIKA RANDALL (21:31):
Yep, and then one, two, three, go.
RACHEL SUTER (21:33):
Yep, yeah.
Yeah, I originally majoredin art, just as a way--
because I knowI'm a busy person.
I need to fill mytime, or I just
don't feel like as,I guess, fulfilled.
And so I knew thatgoing into college
and originally wantingto go to med school,
I was like, only goingto major in neuroscience.
(21:54):
And then I decided.
I was like, I'm goingto need to structure
in some time in myday intentionally
for the things I love.
And so that's prettymuch the only reason
I majored in art as well, wasso that I could be forced to--
ERIKA RANDALL (22:07):
Hold that space.
RACHEL SUTER (22:09):
Yes, hold that space.
ERIKA RANDALL (22:10):
For the thing you loved
while you did this other thingthat you were going to do.
RACHEL SUTER (22:14):
Right.
ERIKA RANDALL (22:14):
Yeah.
RACHEL SUTER (22:15):
Which I also adore neuroscience, but yeah,
it was just like,I think sometimes I
have to also schedule inspace for the things that
are important to me.
And so it's exciting thatthat worked out really
well with art.
And yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (22:29):
And do you feel a loss
in letting go ofthe Dr. Rachel part,
or do you feel just fullgain as they come together?
RACHEL SUTER (22:37):
A little bit of loss,
but the more I sit with it, themore I realize is that like,
I'm more fascinated bythe learning aspect of it
and just my fascinationof the human body,
but actually being apractitioner and doctor, that
is less appealing.
It's more that I justwant to know, you know?
And so this new career, it'slike I can make a career out
(23:01):
of always doing artand always learning.
I will always be learningsomething new, which
is quite exciting for me, andmy days won't be redundant.
And the other exciting thing isthat I can have a career where
I get to listen to audiobooks.
And that is a big thing for me.
ERIKA RANDALL (23:18):
So while you're drawing,
you're listening toa different story?
RACHEL SUTER (23:22):
Yes.
ERIKA RANDALL (23:23):
[LAUGHS]
RACHEL SUTER (23:24):
Yeah, I can't do art if there's not like a--
ERIKA RANDALL (23:28):
So you're not in the research of the heart.
You're listening toMichelle Obama's memoir?
RACHEL SUTER (23:36):
Well, the research part, that's--
ERIKA RANDALL (23:38):
It's already happened.
It's done.
RACHEL SUTER (23:39):
The research part, I'm accompanied
by classical music, you know?
I love classical, sothat's where I get that.
But once I'm into theprocess and it's just
painting for 15hours, it's like, I
don't want to sit with mythoughts for quite that long,
you know?
ERIKA RANDALL (23:54):
So what's the last thing
you painted, and what audiobookwere you listening to?
RACHEL SUTER (23:57):
Oh, I just finished
a painting of the Flatironas like a grad gift,
and I was listening to a bookcalled The Name of the Wind.
I just finished it yesterday,and it was really, really good.
But it's so funbecause sometimes I
can look back at apainting or a drawing
and see and think of exactlywhere I was in the book
when I was doingthat detail or--
(24:17):
you know?
So it's kind of fun.
ERIKA RANDALL (24:20):
I can't believe those things converge
in your world.
I want to hear anotherdrawing and another book
that you listen to.
RACHEL SUTER (24:27):
Oh, uh--
ERIKA RANDALL (24:28):
Because it seems like you catalog them in a way.
RACHEL SUTER: Yeah, a little bit. (24:30):
undefined
I'm trying to think.
I think this one, Iwas watching a TV show.
Unusual for me.
ERIKA RANDALL (24:35):
But not Gray's Anatomy.
RACHEL SUTER (24:37):
No, it was Peaky Blinders.
ERIKA RANDALL (24:40):
The hip surgery and Peaky Blinders.
RACHEL SUTER (24:42):
Yes.
[LAUGHTER]
ERIKA RANDALL (24:44):
This is some excellent anding.
Give me another one.
I could do this all day.
RACHEL SUTER (24:47):
Oh, man, the one with the rib cage
and the visceralheart, I was listening
to just an epic fantasycalled The Way of Kings.
ERIKA RANDALL (24:55):
Love.
RACHEL SUTER (24:56):
Yeah, it was--
ERIKA RANDALL: This triangulation (24:58):
undefined
is so up my alley.
OK, more.
RACHEL SUTER (25:01):
Oh, goodness.
I'm trying to thinkof pieces right now.
ERIKA RANDALL (25:04):
OK, what about the Morse code?
Because I love theMorse code one.
What were you listening to?
RACHEL SUTER (25:10):
Ooh.
I did that like 3and 1/2 years ago.
I don't know if I can remember.
But a fun factabout that painting,
like the Morse code in it, it'slike the history of Morse code,
but in Morse code.
ERIKA RANDALL (25:23):
Shut the front door.
RACHEL SUTER (25:24):
Isn't that so fun?
ERIKA RANDALL (25:25):
That's why I'm talking about the egg.
You are one fabergeegg inside of another,
all these little nesting eggs.
So the Morse code in thepainting is saying something.
RACHEL SUTER (25:35):
Yeah, so I've forgotten it by now,
but at the time, Ilearned Morse code
so then I could put myresearch into the painting.
It was a good time.
ERIKA RANDALL (25:44):
Snaps to that, Rachel.
That's amazing.
OK, it's time.
It's time.
It's time.
It's time for theQuick and Dirty.
I look to producerTim Grassley to see
if my internal clock is right.
This is a game showwhere you cannot lose,
and it is you against yourself.
RACHEL SUTER (25:59):
Oh, man.
ERIKA RANDALL (26:00):
One, two, three, go.
RACHEL SUTER (26:02):
All right.
ERIKA RANDALL (26:03):
OK, your next and art piece.
What are you workingon that you're anding?
RACHEL SUTER (26:10):
I want to do a little bit more figure drawing,
but integrating anatomyinto it, and so just, I
guess, learning aboutboth in the same vein.
I'm taking both figure drawingand anatomy lab next semester,
so I look forwardto combining those.
ERIKA RANDALL (26:25):
Fantastic.
Two or three art materialsthat you would have
to have on a desert island?
RACHEL SUTER (26:30):
The really cheap $0.50 BIC pens.
I love those.
Oh, my gosh, one of my favoriteart materials, and some paper
and watercolors.
ERIKA RANDALL (26:39):
OK, your diving theme song with and in it.
Are you ever diving witha song in your head,
or are you just onthe one, two, three?
RACHEL SUTER (26:47):
It's really the last song I listened to,
and it plays onrepeat for two hours
until I can listen to a new one.
ERIKA RANDALL (26:52):
So what was that?
Any of them that have and in it?
RACHEL SUTER (26:54):
Oh, man.
I don't know.
ERIKA RANDALL (26:58):
You can even say like, in an island in the sun,
that Weezer song thathas and in island.
RACHEL SUTER (27:05):
Well, the problem is, I listen
to a lot of classical music.
ERIKA RANDALL (27:07):
Classical, OK, so like Beethoven and Bach?
RACHEL SUTER (27:10):
Yes, I'll say--
ERIKA RANDALL (27:12):
That's also not a problem.
I do, too.
RACHEL SUTER (27:14):
Yeah, I love it.
Oh, my gosh.
I'm forgetting all ofthe composers I love.
ERIKA RANDALL: Chopin and Schubert? (27:18):
undefined
RACHEL SUTER (27:20):
Yeah, I like a little bit more modern.
I don't know how topronounce his name too well.
It's like LudovicoEinaudi, Einaudi,
something like that-- excellent.
And who does the--
oh, I like Vivaldi.
ERIKA RANDALL (27:33):
OK, we can't be mad about Vivaldi.
OK, the best way tospend a Boulder afternoon
with your roomies.
RACHEL SUTER (27:40):
By the creek, I think.
And yeah, by the creekand just with them
and present, I suppose.
ERIKA RANDALL (27:49):
By the creek with them and present.
I love that.
An and-er you admire?
RACHEL SUTER (27:55):
Ooh, there's a neuroscientist.
His name is Oliver Sacks, and hekind of integrates both this--
he has this ability to putall these intense scientific
and neuroscientificconcepts and combine it
with psychology andlinguistics, and then
is able to perfectly portrayit to an audience that
(28:15):
has no idea what he wouldbe talking about otherwise.
ERIKA RANDALL (28:18):
So no jargon, just sharing it forward.
I love that.
All right, speakingof sharing forward,
you're giving agraduation speech.
You're sending folksoff into their next.
How would you begin?
And may you alwayshave warm pockets.
So start with your--what would your--
RACHEL SUTER (28:38):
Oh, my goodness.
I don't know.
ERIKA RANDALL (28:41):
No wrong answers.
RACHEL SUTER (28:42):
See, I gave my high school graduation speech,
and I sat on thisquestion for probably--
ERIKA RANDALL (28:47):
Of course you did.
RACHEL SUTER (28:48):
--days.
ERIKA RANDALL (28:51):
Yeah, but now, now you know so much more.
Now you're a diverat Casa Bonita.
RACHEL SUTER (28:55):
I think I would say, why not?
You know?
You're like, you'relooking at something.
You're wondering if you should.
Why not?
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ERIKA RANDALL (29:07):
That was Rachel Suter on The Ampersand.
To witness some ofRachel's incredible art,
see our show notes.
The Ampersand is aproduction of the College
of Arts and Sciences atthe University of Colorado,
Boulder.
It is written and producedby me, Erika Randall,
and Tim Grassley.
If there are people you'dlike us to interview
(29:29):
on The Ampersand,do please email us
at asinfo@colorado.eduOur theme music
was composed and performedby Nelson Walker.
And the episodes are recordedat Interplay Recording
in Boulder, Colorado.
I'm Erika Randall, andthis is The Ampersand.
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