Ep 48 - How to value yourself, your photography & find dream customers who are willing to pay for your photography with Celebrity Photographer Walid Azami - The Art of Photography

Episode Transcript
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Walid Azami (00:00):
value yourself. Because without your work, you
can't launch pretty much anyindustry without the work of a
photographer. Without aphotographer capturing those,
the community will never knowwho you are what the food looks
like, that's photography, thatis the value of what we do. Now,
we, you need to charge for that,because what you're doing is

(00:24):
they're not doing you a favourby calling you you're doing them
a favour by lending your talent.

Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt (01:37):
So while it Welcome to the Art of
Photography podcast, how areyou?

I'm good. Thank you so much for having me that I
have really appreciate it.

Yeah, no, it's, you know, I love you
get in touch and I look at yourprom, your profile your
portfolio, and I was justintrigued. So it's a lot of my
audience, or a lot of my guestsare, you know, from the travel
landscape, and I have a fewpeople from portrait, but you
know, never from the celebrityniche. So this is really

(02:09):
exciting for me, I never, youknow, know what's going on in
there. So I have a whole lot ofquestions for you.

Awesome, awesome. Well, hopefully they accept it.
And I know that they will. Butlike, you know, it's something
new for the photographers thatare accustomed to hearing your
podcast. So, you know, maybemaybe we'll all learn a little
bit

100% 100% I mean, you know, me myself, I
do a whole lot of genre ofphotography. And I know there
are a lot of landscapephotographers out there who also
love doing portraits, fashionand so forth, right. But we just
have like the main thing, whichwas, you know, landscape or
astral photography. So, thisdefinitely will apply to
everyone. But before we getstarted, give us a little bit

(02:52):
introduction about who you are,what's your background, and you
know, just a little bit abouthow the audience can get to know
you better.

Sure, I'd be happy to thank you. I'm number one, my
name is Walid Asami. So I'm inLos Angeles. And, as you
mentioned, yeah, I do a lot ofcelebrity, but I also do a lot
of commercials and big brands,domestic and international. And
I've also started to branch outto directing music videos and

(03:24):
commercials, and now creativedirecting, too, and then also
mentoring photographers in theircareers. And I'm very interested
in landscape photography forwhat that's worth too. But I've
been shooting for maybe about 12years. And it's been a very
rough road. I think, like mostphotographers listening to this
podcast, but I just, you know,my goal has been for the past

(03:48):
six years, still continuing myphotography career, but then
really designating a big chunkof that, I would say, almost
like a third of my energy intomaking sure my peers do well,
too. And whether it's from mymistakes, or my big
accomplishments, I think there'ssomething that I can teach
people and make sure that nobodyever takes advantage of
photographers, and that they dowell, and that they get the

(04:11):
compensation that they deserveto. So that's pretty much a
little bit of a lowdown on me.

That's incredible. Yeah, that's love to
hear that, you know, I think,you know, as a photographer,
it's really important to, or asan artist, I shouldn't say
photographer, because this applykind of on the board is that we
are we are stamped with thisnotion that you know, it's we
can't make money fromphotography and you know, it

(04:39):
doesn't produce it doesn't makea living basically, you know,
like the starving artistmentality. And we know that it's
not true. Because you know,like, there are so many
different photographers alreadyhave made it and there is a lot
of mentality I think behindthat. So I was curious, are you
were you I'm born in grew up inLA itself, or what's a little

(05:05):
bit of your personal background?

Um, no, definitely not raised? Well, I guess
somewhat raised in LA. But I wasborn in Kabul, Afghanistan. So
I'm a total war baby. And thatsense, refugee, and America
never took a photo class in mylife. Never ever, like not even
one class. One time, actually. Idid at the junior college, take,

(05:34):
like, try to take an intro tophoto class, but I'm on week
number two, I quit. Because theway that they were moving at
that speed, and I just thoughtwas like, Oh, my God, you want
to tell me about the history ofthis. I just want to know how to
do it. And so I just didn't showup anymore. Terrible student in
that way. But yeah, that's mybackground. So I didn't come
from a family that hadphotography and its blood, I

(05:57):
didn't have any specialconnections. Just a lot of hard
work some luck, and lots of hardwork again.

That's incredible. And so what did you
you What did you study in, in,in college or university? Where
did you get into or you ever gointo college and university or
you just throw yourself throughinto photography right away?

No, I was going to actually become a teacher. And
not because I really, reallywanted to be a teacher, I
actually think it's the mostimportant job in the world I
really do. Besides being a goodparent, is that but my mom was a
teacher, my aunts were ateacher, my grandfather was a
teacher. So really, that doesrun in my blood. And I think
that was the most, at least onpaper, like the most free job

(06:48):
like the freeing, liberated,independent job, it's really not
these poor teachers, they haveto work, especially in America,
it's really hard for teachers.But my, my, I was a history
major. And then my specialty wasthe Israeli Palestinian
conflict. So I just becameobsessed with that story, and

(07:08):
really dug deep into that one.And then after that, I ended up
working with Madonna rightafterwards, completely different
180 degrees. But I will say,though, that my history was what
really helped me excel in thatoffice, because Madonna would
be, hey, we need we need toresearch this one thing for the

(07:29):
World Tour. And people could notresearch. I don't know why
people couldn't research and Iwas like, just wait, just wait,
I'm about to kill you guys withlike, the 17 books I pull
because of this, you know, so ithelped me in that sense. But no,
I never study photo, that isincredible kind of fall in my

(07:50):
lap.

What is story? You know, I think this
is what, actually, you know,just the other weekend, we went
for a catch up with a fewfriends. And he mentioned this
notion that, you know,everything we do in life is an
admin at administration to getto what we want to achieve. And

(08:11):
this is exactly it, right? A lotof people nowadays, especially
with the instant gratification,we we don't want to put into
work, we don't want to do thisadmin and we just wanting to get
the result. But without thisadministration work, you're
never gonna get there becauseyou won't have enough
information knowledge. And thisis a really good, great

(08:35):
demonstration of the day justshow that you know, you the the
study that you did have nothingto do with photography, but yet,
it is what opened you to theworld of photography. Now. I'm
quite interested. How did youcome across Madonna though,
like, you know, like theteachers? Were you working for
her? Or you know that becausethat's a pretty different niche.

(08:58):
Right. So that's interesting tohear.

Yeah, I know. And I know that when I say that a lot
of people are like, Well, great.Somebody, somebody just opened
the door for him and and luckykid at the time, and you know,
and life was just easy. Itactually wasn't easy. And here's
the thing is that now I had, andI still do a small list of

(09:22):
people that I really wanted towork with. One was like
director, documentary director,Michael Moore. Another was Bill
Clinton. Not not not anymore,though. But just like at the
time, it was important that waslike, I really want to work with
this guy, because I thought hewas going to make a lot of
positive change and everything.And there was some other people

(09:43):
too on that list. But on thatlist was Madonna. And why I
really, really liked her asbecause visually, I was a fan of
every single person that sheever brought on her team. And I
watched because if you thinkabout you know her age Now watch
the world likes to make a reallybig deal out of her age. But the

(10:05):
last I don't know, like 40Somethings, 30 Somethings, 20
Somethings, 50 something, even60 something, they all have a
significant part of thoseyounger years, with her being
the soundtrack, Michael Jackson,you know what I mean? Like you
to some of these people. So Ihad a chance to really watch

(10:28):
her, break the mould andeverything. But all that to say
that she was always on my listof people that I wanted to work
with. And I am I will say thatof course, I worked really,
really hard. My parents taughtme a lot of hard work and honest
hard work. But I also very, verymuch subscribe to manifestation

(10:52):
and law of attraction. And so I,you know, I Okay, I'll say this,
socially, I'm supposed to say,Oh, my God, it was such a
surprise. But it wasn't. Andneither was like, some of the
other people that I work withbecause I, I am such a good
manifester that, I don't know,I've always just knew is going

(11:14):
to happen. Is that crazy, butit's just how that happened. And
it's not just Madonna, it waslike, Bernie Sanders was like
that, like, Jennifer Lopez wasanother one. Like, it doesn't
have to be like a long timebeing it's like I really, really
focused on it. I mean, where ismy, it's not here at my desk
right now. But I I journal,like, several times a week, like

(11:37):
a script. And I kind of writelike a make believe of things
that in this world that hasn'thappened yet, but I believe that
they've happened like in aparallel universe. And I, so I
always played withmanifestation. So so she was on
that list. That's a very longanswer, but I'm sticking with
it.

No, that's incredible. I love that.
And it's, it's a couple ofthings that I have a question
with, based on what you're toldme is the first, you know, you
have a list of people that youwant to work with. And I was,
I'd love to know, what makes youwhat makes them to be on your

(12:18):
list, what make you want to workwith, you know, work with them,
basically.

No one's ever asked me that question before. So
thank you. And I never eventhought about that, really,
until you just asked thatquestion. I really admire people
that want to change the world,even if they've negatively
accidentally made like a really,but people that impact like,
that's one thing to be on stageand to go, Oh, look at me with
beautiful lights and beautifulcostumes and all that. But it's

(12:45):
another but how many artists dothat now. I mean, there's a lot
of artists that have incredibleshows. But how many of them
change culture. And I don'tthink any of them really have
changed culture in thatcapacity. Michael Jackson will
be another one. You know, ElvisPresley, The Beatles, these

(13:06):
people change culture globally.And so that I admire that like
some of the people that I'veworked with, like Bob Proctor is
an author, he's become like thefather of like law of
attraction, he changed the wayand entire culture, he
introduced law of attraction toso many people, now, the world
is catching on to it, at leastthe Western world finally is

(13:30):
catching up to so to me, anyonethat wants to change, make an
impact, I'm always going to be ahuge fan.

That is incredible. You know, I think
I'm a big, big believer onpurpose in life and finding that
you know, the purpose and notjust, I mean, it's also
important to do stuff that, youknow, just doesn't have purpose.
But at the end of the day, youknow, we want to look back at
our life and see what we'vedone, you know, how far we make

(14:00):
a change, whether it's true, thesmallest thing, you know, in our
life, or the bigger thing, butyou know, that what you've done
is very important, right? Beingable to push that positivity to
the world. And basically, youknow, expose them to your
photography and the way youstory child to that. So that's

(14:21):
incredible. Thanks for sharingthat.

Thank you for asking that. I think even you
know, like, if I can just evenadd to that. It's like, yeah, it
doesn't have to be celebritydoesn't have to be like a big,
big author. It could be like,for example, you have large part
of your audiences, like they'relandscape photographers, but if
you are exposing that landscapeto the world, and you're able to
show the beauty of a place thatpeople normally may not have

(14:46):
thought about, that's like ahuge service, they think you've
added to mankind

100% And you know, like it's, one of
the things that I do in thispodcast is not having people
that have big followers or Youknow, like they are famous, but
also people who just have reallyget great inspiring stories. And
like you say, that's reallyimportant to like, just
spotlight them right. Now, thesecond question that I have

(15:13):
based on your previous answerwas like, it's really
interesting how you brought upmanifesting and journaling and
all this stuff, right? And Iknow there's a lot of people out
there that literally it's like,you know, this is this is, you
know, a bullshit basically islike, Oh, I've been doing this
forever. I say, it's like, Iwant to get rich, I want to get

(15:34):
rich, I want to get rich. Butyeah, here, I am still not
selling a single print. Right?So, right, give us a little bit
insight of how you manifest andhow you manifests in a way that
you can actually make whatyou've think about or what

(15:54):
you've manifested, come through.

Give me Give me an example of that. Or, like, oh,
do I do it?

A little bit of both, as I suppose
you can give a little bitexample, or actually give us?
Yeah, just like how, like, howdo you do it? What's the
difference between those peoplewhose who have manifested, but
haven't made things come throughfrom their manifestation?

Sure, um, well, I think that what it is, is that
I'll start off by by sayingthis, there is something bigger
than us. And it doesn't matterwhat you believe in what
religion or if you don't have areligion, there just has to be
something bigger than you. Andthat's where I really, I just

(16:41):
hope that everyone that islistening to this podcast, is
like, they believe there'snothing whether you call it God
or energy, or Buddha or Allah orMother Nature, whatever it might
be. So there's something runningthis whole show. But the other
thing too, is I don't have acourse I don't have a book, I

(17:01):
don't have an ebook. I don'thave a workshop and
manifestation. So when I seethis, there is no gain for me.
But just to see our hopefully,one day see how it benefited
someone's life, if they've, youknow, heard it. So much of my
success has come from Law ofAttraction manifestation, they

(17:23):
kind of overlap, a way that it'sabout feeling. That's the
biggest thing. So I used to beone of the worst students you
will ever meet. But I was one ofthe best daydreamers in class, I
would sit there, and justdaydream. But what I didn't know
is that as a student in thepublic school system of America,

(17:44):
I was failing, I wasn't failing,because I knew how to play the
game and turn in every homework,and every extra credit and
everything. I wasn't the beststudent, okay, but I had
personality. And I would, liketry to charm the teachers and
everybody and just try to befunny when I could, and all
that. But what I would do isspend an immense amount of time,

(18:07):
an immense amount of timedaydreaming to the point that I
don't even remember sitting inthe classroom. And I just was
like, Oh, my God, oh, my God, Ihave to like now be friend a
nerd. Because I didn't I havelike two blank pages. And they
have two full pages, front andback. Right? So and I'm like,
hey, everybody come to my housethis weekend. I'll get pizza,
let's compare notes, you know,and try to figure this out. But

(18:32):
in that process, I didn't knowwhat I was doing was
manifesting, I was truly feelingwhat it would feel like to do
this. To the point to the pointthat one of my one of my fears,
I remember consistently in highschool was, okay, so if I get an
award, if I get invited to anaward show for a music video,

(18:57):
and they only give me twotickets, like who am I going to
invite like, I used to sit thereand worry about it. And it was a
really real, real fear. But Idid get nominated for for Soul
Train Music Video of the Year, Idid only give, you know, I only
had one ticket. My horribleagent at the time used it and

(19:17):
didn't tell me about it. Butthat's a separate story. But
it's like it comes. So true. Iguess. Okay, so your listeners
are like, Yeah, okay, great,great work for you. How do you
do it? One thing that I do iscalled scripting. And scripting
is like, Oh man, where's myactual journal somewhere in a

(19:39):
bag or something? But I sit downfor maybe 15 minutes, and I'll
sit at a desk I'll go in acoffee shop just somewhere
comfortable and I will writefive things. So this is like
truly Okay. Five things that Ialready have in my mind. I may
not physically have At themoment, but it is coming for me

(20:02):
it is coming to me. And so I'llwrite five things. And I will
write, I'm so grateful thatblank, I'm so grateful that five
times, then I will take thosefive things. And then write
almost like a like a journallike a diary, journal, one, two

(20:23):
pages, something like that. Andthen I will use those five
bullet points in a story as ifit already happened. So for
example, I might say, I'm so I'mso grateful now that I finally
have the beach house that Iwanted three levels on the side

(20:45):
of a hill, not across thestreet, but the side with the
ocean, right. And then I'll justsay I have that. But for me to
really believe it to really feelit. What I will do, then as all
after I list those five bulletpoints, and I'll write like a
journal. And I'll say, I'm sothankful now that I finally have
my beach house that I wanted.And it's amazing. It has like

(21:06):
the Spanish tiles that I reallylike, which makes it very
uncomfortable in the winter,because you have to wear socks
all the time inside the house.But but in the summer, it's
amazing. And the only part Idon't like is when my friends
come over, my family comes over,and then all the footprints are
there. And I have to mop it upafterwards. But I'm so thankful
I've that many people in my lifebecause we get to go downstairs

(21:29):
down the grace steps made ofwood to the ocean, and we get to
swim and come back up to myhouse and barbecue. Like I write
exact things, right. But thenI'll actually I'll write those
five things as if it happenedthat day. So I'm so thankful my
parents could do it. And I'mthankful my sister brought my
nieces too. And they got to, andI'll just sit there. And it's

(21:53):
actually kind of sounds dorky,but it's actually fun for a
minute, and you're justpretending you have it. And the
idea is that you write it untilyou feel it. And then you just
leave it alone. I will say I'llgive you one quick example.
Because I know you have otherquestions too, is here's an
example of scripting, just oneof many that have worked out for

(22:14):
me. And the past three years, Ihad a job where I was
photographing for a new startupclothing line. And the owner
decided to decided to go toBali, and go on vacation. And,
and that's amazing, right?Amazing for you. But if you have
a brand new company, why wouldyou leave all of us alone for

(22:34):
your first ever photoshoot? Verybad decision as a CEO, it was a
disaster. The lady at hiscompany had designer awful the
the agent for the modelscomplained and said, We never
want to work with her again, themodels complained, I complained
the assistants all separatelycomplaint and I told the CEO of

(22:57):
this company, you know, I, Ireally like you. And if I didn't
tell you everything thathappened, I would never be a
good person, a friend to you.And I kind of missed the
beginning of the story. But thebeginning of the story was
basically that I wanted to stilldo photography, I still want to
direct but I wanted to startcreative directing. I wanted to

(23:20):
work from home and I wanted towork maybe 15 or 20 hours a
week. That's it. I didn't wantto go to anyone's office. But I
wanted people to start trustingme as a creative director, the
shoot now the shooting happenedin real life. It was a disaster.
So I told the CEO how bad itwas. And then he's like, I
appreciate you telling meeveryone else kind of complained

(23:40):
and said she was awful. And thenI sent him the pictures. And he
called me like the next day orso. And he said, you know Walid,
considering everything you said,considering everything everybody
else said. These pictures arephenomenal. And you guys were up
against a lot. And it'sphenomenal. And I'm really

(24:02):
curious, I have this weird idea.Just think about it. You can
come back to me a different dayand think about it. Would you be
open to being the CreativeDirector for the the startup
company no more than 15 or 20hours a week and you can work
from home? That right there isan example that happened within

(24:22):
two weeks of me writing it in myjournal. Now I know all your
listeners at this point arelike, Who is this guy? This is?
This is crazy. That's like oneexample. That's how I do it.
It's about feeling and that'slike one example of it actually
working.

That's really cool. And I mean, I just
remember I just got into Lenaand this manifestation and
meditation and I think thedifference I mean if we take
away you know, all of thisspiritual aspect is it's all
about making you believe inyourself. And you know, when you
feel it, then you can believethat it already happened and

(24:59):
therefore it's more likely thatyou will work towards, you know,
I mean, a good example that Ialways use is like, let's say
you need to get something fromthe grocer, and it's about to
close in five minutes, andyou're an hour away. You're
never gonna make an attempt.Right. But if it's like five
minutes away, and it's almostclose, you know, in five

(25:20):
minutes, I was like, Oh, maybe Icould go really quick. Maybe I
could not tell them. You know,it's that is the difference.
It's the signal that tellingyourself and that is, I love how
you share, you know, thejournaling, the scripting that
is so powerful. Now, yeah, tosegue back to, you know,
photography. Yeah, yeah. This isreally cool, right? Because most

(25:46):
people in photography, you know,I know, like, most people gonna
be like, What does manifestinghave to do with photography?
Most people in photography, theyhave some sort of goal, whether
they want to make money of theirphotography, they want to
capture, you know, a certainimage. And I believe the only

(26:06):
way to make that come true is tobelieve in the journey to
believe in their in their self,right to believe that there is
one day they will be able to getthere so that they keep going.
Now, that's it. I want to, Iwant to ask you a little bit
from your experience and yourjourney. What are some of the
hardest struggle that you havecome across that almost make you

(26:31):
give up this journey? Thatalmost give it all away? And you
know, take the easy route? Andhow did it all unfold for you?
Hmm.

Well, your podcast is asking questions that
generally other podcasts don'task, which I mean that in the
most complimentary way. So Iappreciate that. What made me
almost give up? Well, let mejust be really honest. Not this
past year. But there are goodyears and bad years. I think
that a lot of times people arelike, oh, did you almost give

(27:05):
up? I almost give up three timesa month. Not gonna lie to you.
So if anyone's like, Oh, my godslike, so I'm not crazy. I'm not
alone. Well, you were crazy,because this is what we want to
do for an occupation. So thereis a little bit of crazy, but
it's like a fun, crazy, youknow, I wanted to give it many,

(27:26):
many times, because I think tomyself, we need health care. And
we need long term retirement andwe need stable income. But then
I also think to myself, likeafter you have like a mass, like
you have a big win, that couldbe a massive job. That could be
a beautiful photograph thatyou're just like, staring at it
for a long time. The high ofthat. I don't do drugs. But I

(27:49):
would imagine it's like the highthat you would feel if you have
a powerful drug. And then thatright there pulls me right back
into it. But the things thathave bothered me, that have made
me put the camera down, I've nowdecided to try to be an answer
to that problem. So how peopletreat artists and photographers,

(28:10):
well, no, we are photographers,artists. How people treat
artists has really angered mehow people treat marginalised
populations. I'm sure it's likethis around the world, but I
just have experienced inAmerica, they they make if
you're a woman, if you're Brown,if you're black, if you're

(28:30):
Asian, they make you feel thatjust having the opportunity is
the paycheck don't ask formoney. And so they add in their
attitude and the what they saythe microaggressions and
everything. So for me, it waslike okay, well, instead of
giving up what a giant waste ofmy experience, what a slap in
the face to all of the hard workthat I've done. So why don't I

(28:52):
try to be the anti everythingthat made me put my camera down,
you know, because I did foreight months. I did stop
photography. I did open a studioand I was like, Well, I guess
this is it, you know, like, bethankful for what you've done.
But you guys, it's not easy. Ifit was easy, every single person

(29:13):
will be doing it. Who doesn'twant to take photos and have
people say oh my god, I love theway you see. It's incredibly
special. Or, you know, or whoyou happen to be stumbling on
this podcast or this particularepisode and you're a filmmaker
or you're a writer or what haveyou. Like it's an immense
privilege to have people youknow love the way you think.

(29:38):
What was the exact question washow do I give up or did I ever
think about giving up or none ofthose

so what you know like what what was
the moment and how you get outof it?

Hmm. anger anger pulled me out. So for me, the
anger was after eight months ofputting my camera down and and
manifesting nation. Okay, sohere's, this is gonna take a
little bit, but I promiselisteners, it's worth it. Okay,
so anger got me really upsetwhen I said, Okay, enough is

(30:09):
enough. And I'm going to makesure that I use my experience to
help other people. So I started,what at the time, it was called
How to photograph. Now it'scalled Walid Asami, on
Instagram. And I wasanonymously, helping
photographers with tips andsuggestions and pricing and
marketing and copyrights, andlighting and editing, and all

(30:32):
those different things. And Ijust was like, you know, what's
going to happen, no one's goingto take advantage of any of
these other people. And I'mgoing to use that experience of
the bad in the good. And thenthat account grew. Now we're
like a 50, something 1000. Andit grew and grew and grew,
because people are like, what isthis because it's like,
legitimate information that'sreally helping people do better.

(30:54):
And now my name is attached toit, just because it's easier,
you know, and I want people toknow, who I am and, and
reference my work, you know, toweigh it against the advice. So
it was one way that I beat itwas just saying, you know, what,
I'll show you, I'll show theserecord labels that no one can
take advantage of photographersanymore. Also, these big

(31:15):
corporate companies that youcan't just bulldoze over people.
And I'm going to make sure thatI give my community the tools
that they need so that they knowhow to get out of your name and
get out of the way the punchback basically. So I've I have
tonnes and tonnes and tonnes ofscreen captures that people are
like thank you so much. Becauseof you have gone full time

(31:35):
because of you, I was able tostop a situation. But the
manifestation one, here's a, isit. Okay? If I go into one more
example of that, because I wantto give this gentleman Yeah,
radish, who's no longer with us.But if you've ever seen the DVD,
the movie, The Secret or readthe book, The Secret by Rhonda

(31:58):
burns, the movie is opened by agentleman by the name of Bob
Proctor. Bob Proctor is like thethey consider like the father of
law of attraction. And I was inmy studio when I told you I was
in my studios, it was ratherlarge. And I I I had given up

(32:21):
photography and the studio wasthe attic of an old grocery
store. So me, I'm watchingYouTube, and I'm like how to
apply drywall. Okay, and I wouldjust do it, how to fix
electrical and I would do it howto fix plumbing and I learned
everything off of YouTube. Andthen nobody really helped me and
I was like, I stopped in themiddle of all this. And I had to

(32:41):
move into the studio because Iput all my money into helping my
family and I also got rid of myapartment so I can move in and
invest in this business. Andthere were like boxes and boxes
and boxes in there. And let metell you real fast. When it was
cold, it was colder in thatstudio. When it was hot. It was
hotter in that studio. Okay,there was no installation,

(33:01):
nothing. I don't know what I wasthinking, but I did it. And so I
was looking. I was looking atthese boxes, all my personal
belongings and I was like, Ineed to find the DVD for the
secret. I just know there's amessage in there for me. I know
there's a message in there. AndI don't know don't ask me why

(33:23):
didn't decide to YouTube thevideo, it didn't cross my mind.
I needed to find the DVD, okay,and then find my DVD player in
one of those boxes. And Icouldn't find it. And for three
days I searched. I really reallysearched through everything that
Mike who was here, you know whensomething is right there and
you're like I saw it just like aweek ago now I can't find it.

(33:45):
And I gave up and I was likeforget it. Just continue
building the studio. So you canopen this up and start making
money. But that's what happenswith manifestation you have to
want something so bad. And thenyou have to let it go and
release it. You know, and I didbut I wasn't trying to manifest
it. I was like frantically likeit was literally a man at his
wit's end. And, and, and Ifinally found it, or excuse me,

(34:09):
I didn't find that I finallygave up when I couldn't find it.
That day that I gave up. It waseither later that day, or
immediately the next day myphone rang. And it was a girl.
Her name is Lisa. And Lisa saidhi is Waleed there. First of
all, I'm very private about mynumber. And and I was like yes,

(34:32):
and she's like Hi, my name isLisa. I got your number from
another mutual friend of ours,and I've been looking for your
information. I just found thatwe have a mutual friend. My boss
needs new photos for new booknew projects new everything. my
boss's name is Bob Proctor. Ididn't even know Bob Proctor

(34:55):
knew I existed in this planet.Okay, or on this planet. I
didn't Not No. Like, I had noconnection to this man. And so,
in the midst of all this, mystudents almost getting done. I
was like, what I was justlooking for his footage. And now
his office calls me. And they'rebased in Arizona. And when he

(35:18):
came, I told my producer, Matt,I was like, go all out all out,
like make him feel like a king,take out of my money, take out
of any department money, makesure there's beautiful flowers
and like desserts and like justa beautiful thing, because I
just, I was so nervous aboutthis. And Bob came, so we shot

(35:39):
some stuff. And the pictures arestill being used. And they're
widely used still. And I was bythe window of the, and maybe
Isabelle, my assistant can sendthese photos, I'll give her
these photos to you. But I wasby the window. And Bob and his
partner, Sandy Gallagher, werein the hair makeup studio. And I

(36:01):
was just by myself setting upthe next shot. And Bob is a very
airy, light, little walk, youknow, like a much older man. And
he walked up behind me, and hejust put his hand lightly on my
shoulder. And he said, You knowwhat, lead I photographed with a
lot of photographers in my life.And one of the other reasons why

(36:25):
gave up too is because I thoughtI was no longer an artist, and
my agent made me really feellike I hit it was gone, you
know, that was just a machine.And so he put his hand on my
shoulder, and he said, I've shotwith a lot of photographers, and
I gotta let you know, shootingwith you is different. He's
like, I, he's like, I've justthe way you shoot, the way you

(36:48):
see things, the way you directthings like I've never shot with
anyone like you. And then andthis was like in a YouTube
video. So if anyone'squestioning it, this has been
timestamp many times over andblogged and everything. And he
said, I just feel you need tohear this. But you're truly an
artist. And so I had like thisweird, perfect storm of like

(37:11):
anger, I was like, I'm going tohelp these photographers, I'm
gonna make sure that theindustry never abuses
photographers. But at this othertime. At the same time, I was
also manifesting literally, aone particular human being on
this planet. And he called myoffice, and he came to my
studio. And then he put his handon my shoulder and said, You're

(37:31):
an artist when I thought Iwasn't anymore, so please, you
guys, please don't dismiss lawof attraction and manifestation.
That was really the main pointof that example.

Wow, that was a really great story.
Thanks for sharing a long story.I get better at these nuggets.
That's great. And you know,like, sometimes when you shorten
it, you kind of miss the, thewhole sense of it. So I think
it's it was great. I lovehearing, you know, a lot of
photographers out there or?Yeah, I would say a lot of

(38:03):
photographers stopped beingartists, when they started
trying to earn from theirphotography, right? I mean,
yeah. I really don't know anyphotographers who got into
photography, because they wantto make money because there are
hundreds other photography, jobsor other profession that is much

(38:26):
simpler if that's what you'reafter. Most of the photographers
who want to earn money isbecause they love photography.
They love how that makes otherfield through the storytelling
and photography. And they wantto do more of that. Right? Yeah.
So I feel like an AI. Don't getme wrong, I got there as well,

(38:47):
you know, I actually hit aburnout. And that's exactly it's
very similar to what you say isthat I stopped being an artist
instead, I was like about, youknow, how do I make money, what
people like, you know, what sortof photo photo that will give me
the most likes on Instagram andso forth. So your message right

(39:08):
there, I think it's just veryimportant that you should never
forget why you started, why youget into this business, that you
are an artist and that is thething that you know, make. What
you do is beautiful, right? Sothanks for sharing that while he
that is, you know, a lot ofmessage behind that story and a

(39:30):
lot of advice behind that story.That is incredible. Now. So, you
know you have turned into youknow, from being an artist to
making being able to make moneyfrom it and doing basically a
job that you love. And now youtake that a step further to

(39:54):
contributing to otherphotographers and empower them
how Help them to, to be outthere in the industry without
being stepped on. Now, one thingthat I'd love to hear from you
is how do people valuethemselves and their work,

(40:15):
because I feel like as an artistwho cannot get into whoo hoo,
trying to transition or evenwho's been in the industry for a
long time, as an artist, we loveto get our story shared, we love
to have our photography, youknow, in this publication, and

(40:36):
so forth and show our messageand our vision to the rest of
the world, right. And for thatreason, I feel like a lot of us
don't take don't value,monetary, monetary incentive as
much compared to being exposeduntil we really meet the man and

(40:58):
says, like, Well, man, I can'treally make money from this, you
know, this is not working out.Photography is not a good
profession and so forth. And Ifeel like that's when a lot of
people kind of give up. So goingback to the question is, you
know, despite all the feeling ofwanting to share our work, share

(41:19):
our story to more people outthere, how do we value ourselves
and say, Well, I do want toshare this, but I also need to
eat or also need a roof to livein? And how do you connect that
to so that photographers wholistening right now, whether

(41:39):
they want to do it full time asa hobby or part time know
exactly how to value their work?And, and sell as well as you
know, offer their work to?Basically, you know, anyone like
the audience out there?

Yeah. Great question. Well, I went on, I
lately have been going on a hugetangent about this. value
yourself, because without yourwork, and it doesn't matter if
you do landscape or orcommercial or portraits or
babies or weddings, what haveyou. You can't launch pretty

(42:19):
much any industry without thework of a photographer. Okay? So
it's just not going to work. Youcan't launch a world tour.
Without the photos. I just likedid something for Tiziano.
Ferro, he's about to go huge inEurope, about to go on a major
world tour. That's my photo. Hereleased an album this last
Friday, two days ago. That's myimage. He's on Italian TV shows
right now, with my images behindhim. Amazon has massive

(42:44):
billboards all over Italy, likebuilding size ones that we can
send you, you know, copies ofthose. That's my image. You
can't do that without my work.Right. Now, let's talk about
what about the personalphotography, because not
everyone wants to do commercial,you can't tell family history,
you can't tell futuregenerations that haven't even

(43:05):
been born. If the photographerdidn't push the button and
perfectly frame people. That'syour value. You can't sell your
grandma's favourite recipes inyour restaurant that you've been
working over. And like, you putthe kids to bed and you pay them
and put them to bed and you feedthem. And then you go and you
work on this little by littleperfecting the recipes. Without

(43:27):
a photographer capturing those,the community will never know
who you are, what the food lookslike. That's photography, that
is the value of what we do. Now.We, you need to charge for that.
Because what you're doing isthey're not doing you a favour
by calling you you're doing thema favour by lending your talent.

(43:48):
Now let's look at okay, if yousaid a large percentage of your
audience is landscapephotographers. Imagine just the
way you can represent ageographic area, the way you can
represent places that peoplewill go to like the amount of
landscape photographers I getjobs with, let's just say unique

(44:09):
situations, tours, like wildlifetours, like boutique hotels that
just like you can't dresssomething you can't sell an
expensive home anymore. Withoutbeautiful portraits on the wall.
The image behind you is asbeautiful nightscape with the
Milky Way galaxy and all thatthat you want it to pay money

(44:30):
for that and hang that up onyour wall. I don't know if
that's a wallpaper that's trulyyour living room. So I just
realised that could be awallpaper but that regardless,
it's someone's living room. Andit's like we do so much. And
even if you do landscape likeyou're literally selling
serenity, your selling piecesomebody wants to pay for your

(44:51):
art put it up on their wall intheir living room. They want to
stare at it. They want it to bein the background of home videos
and photos and everything. likethat they want that art to be a
part of their Christmas dinnersand Ramadan dinners and Hanukkah
dinners and everything else, youhave a tremendous amount of
value. The problem is thatsomebody told you a long time

(45:14):
ago, that you can't love whatyou do, and make money for it.
And that is one of the mostcriminal things ever. And then
to make it worse, you believethat to further make it worse,
you choose to pass it on littleby little by little by little
complete bullshit. And if youthink about it, you should be

(45:35):
able to put food on your table,have money for retirement, a
vacation, love what you do, andmake an impact and enjoy a full
time income from it. Because Iwould say this to any
photographer. What if you hatedyour job? Like, what if you
hated your job? And I don't wantto disparage any occupations? I
won't name anything. But we allwould hate to do something,

(45:57):
would you charge for it? Andthey always will say, Oh, yeah,
for every minute that I'm there,I will charge for it. So why do
you want to get paid? If youhate something? What? Why can't
you love something and get paidfor it too. But people like me,
that are yourself, you know,like with this amazing podcast,

(46:18):
we can share our stories withyou, we could tell you that
we're able to do it, we can tellyou that we want to help you do
it, like knowledge on us, butexecution on you, you have to
believe that you have value. And

that is incredible. I love a few
things that you say but the onething that really hits me is the
fact that we do the things thatwe hate and we want to get paid
for it. But when it's doing thethings that we love, we don't
seek as much and that why not?Yeah, interesting. Yeah. I love

(46:59):
that. I love that. That isgreat. So, all right, so Okay,
now, you gotta look at you, Isuppose, you know, coming
through what you just said that,you know, we have to kind of
step back and realise, what isthis false belief that we tell
ourselves, you know what it was?Who told you a long time ago

(47:20):
that you can make money fromwhat you love? Which which what
you said earlier right? Now,okay, let's say we find that
right? Okay, I know, there wasthis time and then okay, it's
not true. Based on you know, thestory that you tell that it's
very true, you know, withoutphotography, without artistry,
life is boring, right?Everything is just black and

(47:42):
white. It's just a plain wallwith nothing in it. Right? So
yeah. So you value yourself youvalue or your art, your art.
Now, the problem that I see alot of photographers come across
is that, okay? Well, you knowwhat, I valued this an X amount
of money, and then you go toother, you go to your customer

(48:04):
and say, Well, this is an Xamount of price, if you want to
have this beautiful piece onyour home, and they will go
like, no, that's too expensive.I was like, I could get an X
amount of dollar, which is, youknow, probably like 10% of the I
could only pay 10% of that fromsomewhere else and you know, get
the same amount of a feel, forexample, and I feel like that is

(48:28):
one of the problem that we comeacross in this industry is that
we're continuously beingcompared with something cheaper,
and we that really take away ourconfidence, right before it's
like, man, like, I feel likethis worth $1,000. But this guy
told me that, you know, he onlywilling to pay like maximum

(48:50):
$200. And you know, you saw itsomewhere else for $200. How do
you overcome that? And yeah,like, how do you go from there?

Yeah, that's a solid question. So how you
overcome that there's two thingsthat's going on here. And number
one, you have not fullyexpressed your value to your
client. Now you never want tosay I am valuable. No. They're
they are saying to a particularperson, I only want to pay $200

(49:23):
for this because in their mind,no, you say your 1000 but I
think you're only worth 20% ofthat you are acting like a
heavily discounted item. Okay?So a lot of this is psychology.
And I'll talk about in I talkedabout this in my step Pricing
course secret to easyphotography, pricing, and it

(49:44):
doesn't matter what kind ofphotography you do, we break
down what kind of like how youpresent your prices, what to ask
the clients. How to analyse asituation. If they say this, you
say that you know all kinds ofscripting and everything your
market value and all that. Sowhat I would say number one is

(50:06):
determine your value, it shouldbe high, and then portray that
to the client. So one examplewould be, okay, here's an
example. I will have aphotoshoot on Tuesday. And the
client was referred to me. Sheemailed me through my website, I
got the email. And I said,amazing, I kind of vetted who

(50:27):
this person was. And then Isaid, Would you be open to
having a phone conversation?Because I don't really just give
my numbers out to anybody. Andshe said, Sure. And we had a
zoom call. And I, I asked thequestions that I teach in my
course. But I also asked thesequestions. Tell me about you
tell me how you want people tofeel. Tell me about the goal of

(50:50):
these images? Why are you doingit? Why did you not like the
other one? What did you likeabout the past? Shoot? And what
did you not like about it? And Ibuilt this entire thing, because
I can't price something for you,if I don't know what you want.
I'm not I'm not a vendingmachine where I'm just like,
here you go two bucks. Andthat's it. No, what we do is the

(51:11):
photographers, you are luxuryitems, but sometimes you behave
like a discount item. So pause alittle bit slow down and really
get to know them in the process.She said to me, while either
I've never had a photographer,inquire this deep about what was
important to me why I was doingthe shoot. And it really, really

(51:34):
made me think thank you so much.That right there. I didn't have
to say, hey, hey, I have value.Nope, I just displayed that in
the kind of work that I do. Now,for example, if let's just say
there's a big Airbnb, let's justsay it's a mansion. And they
have a lot of property and theywant to bring a landscape
photographer to photograph forthem. You can just say, Oh, I

(51:57):
mean $1,200 For that, well, whata disservice. Or you can say,
what kind of clients would bethere? Okay, what kind of decor
Do you have? Like, what's yourcolour theme? So we're doing
more of an evening light? Are wedoing morning? What would the
mood be is like hard sun? Is itlike foggy? Do we want it to be
songbird? We want it to becheery, like all these extra

(52:18):
questions, right? That raises upyour value because they're like,
Oh, she or he is not like anyother person that I've
interviewed for this job. That'sthe first part. The second part
is that poor people hang outwith poor people, rich people
hang out with rich people. Bothare wonderful humans. However,

(52:40):
if you keep serving the audiencethat says I know you're 1000 But
only have $200. They havecousins who believe the same
thing. They have neighbours whobelieve the same thing. They
have friends and co workers whobelieve the same thing. You are
going to get stuck in this. Whatis that thing of the ocean that
goes in a circle? If you're weakswimmer, it's like a whatever.

(53:03):
It's like it's not a title. It'sa it pulls you out. And

I know what you are correct? Yeah,
that's right. Yeah,

yeah. So it's like this ripcord that keeps pulling
you out. Or even like ahurricane, it just keeps
spinning around throws you rightback into the cheap people, the
cheap people, the cheap people.Now, they deserve great photos
too. But let that be someoneelse's problem. That's not your
problem, dear listeners, okay.But if you decide to serve an
audience that really values, thetime, the expertise, your

(53:36):
artistry, they hang out withpeople, they refer people to
you, that have the same belief.So if you have clients being now
I know, you're 1000, but I onlyhave $200 $300, you are very
much in the wrong circle. Atthat point, do everything you
can to leave that little ripcurrent that keeps pulling you

(53:58):
in and go somewhere else. That'seasier said than done. But oh,
you know, like a really shortcut way of saying it is okay.
Where would your client hangout? Where would your perfect
ideal client hang out? If you'redoing let's say landscape
photography, and you want tosell $1,000 for a massive print,

(54:20):
I would really want to be at thewineries you know, and taking
pictures out there and lettingthese people that can enjoy
these these little weekendgetaway vacations. See you with
a camera and ask questions andsee the work. Put yourself where
they hang out. You don't want togo photograph outside of a
Walmart parking lot.

That is a great advice. And I love
how you give a lot of examplefor people at different niche
and I think that's really cool.speaks a lot about what you
probably you know, teach in yourcourse because I haven't taken
it myself so I can't really sayto it, but yeah, that's

kind of what And over these landscape
photographers?

No, it's really good. Because yeah,
like, you know, you really bringit back, you know, your
celebrate photographer, fashionportrait, but you really bring
it back to like, you know that.At the end of the day, it
doesn't really matter what sortof artists, you are the
fundamentals the way you thinkis the same, right? And I feel

(55:24):
like a lot of people get reallycaught up on that. It's like,
well, yeah, like, you know, Idon't know if that works for me,
because I'm a landscapephotographer. And like, well, I
don't know, landscapephotographers, are miniature
photographers. And I feel likewe we label ourselves. And
instead of using that as astring, we actually use that as

(55:44):
a weakness as an excuse. So Ireally love how you can merge
all this together and say, Look,guys, it doesn't matter who you
are, it doesn't matter what sortof artists you are, this still
works. Right. So that isincredible. I love hearing that.
And I'm sure the audience willget a lot of value for that.
Now, one more question aroundaround the pricing. Right. So

(56:08):
excuse me, this is somethingthat I also come across a lot.
Is that okay? Well, while he,you know, it's really good
advice. I agree with you, I needto get out of this, you know,
current and retired and I needto go to where my customer.
Right, right. But the problemthat I have is that I need that

(56:29):
money, I need that money to putmy next meal on my table. Right?
I need that money to, to pay forthe rent for the electricity. I,
I don't know, how long will ittake to build, you know, all of
this, right. And I know thatthat is one struggle that a lot
of artists come through, theydecide to bring their price

(56:52):
down, they price down the price,the in hope to get that little
money, just enough to paywhatever they need to pay. And I
believe that is the origin ofthe belief that we are in that,
you know, the broke artistmentality, basically. So what

(57:14):
would you what would youradvice? What would you what
advice would you give to peoplewho are thinking that way? And
who are in that situation?

Sure, I think that that's important to say that is
like the gateway to like, whenit just starts spinning out of
control faster and faster, andjust keeps slipping out of your
hand. And that's how you buyreally cheap cameras, everybody
from photographers who havegiven up and you buy it used,
okay. But I will say this, Idon't I wish I you know, that
wouldn't be the case. But that'sliterally Hey, it becomes like a

(57:50):
gravestone, or a graveyard oflike people who gave up. Um, the
one thing is, I will say this,if you're a photographer, I
don't care what you photograph.Do not ever, ever charge hourly,
ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. Infact, when like in my step
Pricing course, you also getlike a year's worth, inside this

(58:12):
private Facebook group. I havetold them that if I find out
because I will Snoop because Ido care about my students, that
if I see you guys charginghourly, you're out of the
programme out? I don't like it.Absolutely not. So that first of
all, please don't charge hourly,everybody. But what do you do?
Well, I'll say this. Sometimesyou just have to put food on the

(58:34):
table. And that's your onlychoice. So you have to do what
you have to do and take care ofyourself and your family first.
Assuming you have a tiny bit ofa cushion, okay, you have a
little bit of freedom to be ableto try something new. I don't, I
would much rather you go deliverfood for people and get tips.
Rather than take cheap clients.Because it's a very, very small

(58:58):
industry. If you work infashion, everyone knows each
other. If you work indocumentary, everyone knows each
other. And all that once wordgets out that you are the cheap
photographer. Good luck tryingto find your way back to the
top. It's kind of like in highschool. We knew the people who
were a boy, okay, we knew thepeople who were easy. And you

(59:23):
can hook up with them if youneeded to. And you know, the
people who were like, Nah,they're not that type of a
person. It's doesn't mean it'sright. But it happens. And word
gets out so fast. Everyoneknows, like, you might as well
get like this, like this tag onyour forehead that says easy,
cheap, free photographer,whatever. So don't do. I'm just

(59:47):
going to use just for roundnumbers. Let's just say you want
to charge 1000 And please,everyone charged more than that.
But let's just say you want tocharge 1000 And you're like I'm
just gonna grab these $200 jobsand pay the bill. I wouldn't
much rather you go deliver food,go drive an Uber, because at
least what you're, what you'redoing is preserving your name

(01:00:09):
and your brand in the market.Because once you're the cheap
one, good luck coming up, it'snearly impossible. I would
almost rather say rebrandyourself, get a whole different
business name, or go to adifferent market, you can start
high, and you can find reasonsto come down. Maybe it's a
Christmas special, maybe it'slike, favourite clients type of

(01:00:31):
special Valentine's Day. Okay,and I'll give you an example of
how you can charge cheaper andstill win. If that scares you
don't care what you do. Now,this might be a little harder
for landscape photographers. Butportrait, family, babies,

(01:00:51):
engagement, modelling,restaurants food, do something
called mini sessions. And minisessions are such a stealth way
of so many benefits. Okay, solet's just say you have a goal
of $1,000 per photoshoot,please, again, everyone aim
higher, especially if you're inthe United States. But your goal

(01:01:12):
is $1,000 Who's going to trustyou as a snoo photographer with
their $1,000 as we're going intoa recession, so but you still
need to grow your portfolio, youstill need to grow your network,
you still need to make somemoney. So what I would do is do
mini sessions, Hey, you want todo family portraits, great book

(01:01:34):
out at a time in a day and go toa local park and make it special
for them. Bring bottles ofwater, bring your little boombox
speaker play music have likelittle kits of like hair and
makeup and hairspray and likethe things that people do for
their shiny skin that dab thatpaper, whatever it might be,
have it fun, have some snacks,everything, make it an

(01:01:57):
experience, people love to pay alot of money for experiences.
But instead of booking oneclient in one day and saying
okay, I barely got one for$1,000. And that's your whole
day. Why don't you do a bunch ofmini sessions $400 each $350
each. And instead of one client,you try to fit like five or six.

(01:02:20):
And you actually end up makingway more money. You ended up
getting more practice as a newerphotographer, because you don't
have to manage somebody for likefive hours, you haven't for 45
minutes, you have way moreimages in your portfolio,
because you have all thesedifferent faces. And you get to
benefit from these people who soif if you were to take my family

(01:02:43):
photo for $1,000 you hope that Iput you on Instagram and I tag
you. But if you were to put likeeight 910 families there, at
least half of them are going totag you, you're going to enjoy
the benefits of their networkand it starts growing. So invest
in mini sessions. That alsomeans that if they can't yet

(01:03:07):
afford your full rate, and theycan only pay the mini session
rate, then what happens is theyget a little sample. It's like
an appetiser at a restaurant youget a little sample, and they
will save up. They're like oh mygod was such a fun experience.
We should do like a half daywith a photographer next time,
or maybe a full day. And that'show you grow your business. So

(01:03:29):
like a tactical thing that Iwould do that never charge
hourly, ever, ever, and make itan experience too. But if
someone doesn't want to pay,you're in the wrong audience, go
get another job and treat thatother non photography job as an
investor. So I don't care if youdon't want to drive people

(01:03:51):
around in an Uber. You just saycool today I made $125 That's
the Think of Uber as an investorin your company. And now you can
start saying, Okay, I'm going tonow go sit at the expensive
coffee shops and edit mypictures there so I can run into
rich people. You can also findyourself a rich husband or wife

(01:04:14):
that way to podcast.

Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt (01:04:18):
That is great. I love that. I

Walid Azami (01:04:20):
love that how do people do it? How do people find
their you know, their? Theirsugar mama sugar daddy, they go
to rich bars.

That is funny. And yeah, that's
that's what a great advice andyou know, that's that's just I
think that will open up a lot ofobjections, a lot of doubts that
people have, and it just goes toshow how much value keep on your
course. Right. But one thingthat I do, I'd like to kind of

(01:04:51):
follow up on that. Is that,okay? You talk about this notion
of okay, go to where yourcustomer is. hang up your ideal
customer, I should say, yeah,just your customer, you go to
where your customer, your idealcustomer hang out and appeal to
them in a way that they want tobe appealed to, right? Because

(01:05:13):
that's, that's what like youcan't I think one way that you
were, you put it earlier, it'slike you can't, you know, dress
all hippie and go to a high endplace and try to sell people at
the high end place for example,correct, right, you harassed to
kind of walk the talk andbasically be become one of them

(01:05:35):
or you know, relate to them.Now, one thing that I like to
get your, your response on is,once you do that, there is still
this one thing that is difficultto break, right? To be able to
put your work out there istrust, right? Well, yeah, they

(01:05:57):
may come to you. And then youmight you may be the dress and
you know, walk the talk and talkto talk or whatever it is. And
you go like, well, you know, I'mhere and this is, you know, I'm
looking fancy. And, you know,I'm this sort of photographer,
but they look at us like, Okay,well, you know, have you ever
sell, you know, for example, anart with the high end price? Or,

(01:06:20):
you know, what's, what's thevalue and so forth? Right? How
do they trust you? If you justgot out of this riktigt you
know, and you move into this?The people who just want to
bring you down and you know, askfor everything for nothing to
this place where people actuallyvalue your work. Right? How do

(01:06:45):
you get that trust? And how doyou get them to invest on you,
and your art? For the amount orthe value that you value your
art?

So, so that I fully I want to make sure I understand
how do you get people to trustyou with their money and their
project and all that, right?

Correct. Oh, even if you if you just got
out of this, like, you know,like, let's because you say
earlier, like, leave this thingthat like, keep asking for more
but doesn't pay anything, youknow, go find a different place.
Exactly. Cheap town. Okay, we'regoing into a new city. So but
you're nobody there. Right?You're nobody there. So how do

(01:07:29):
you build that trust? How do youget that trust so that people
invest on it? Because you know,that first person who believe in
you really going to open up thedoors, right? That yeah, gonna
become your portfolio, they'regonna become your success story.
But how do you get that firstperson to invest and belief in
you?

Of course. Well, here's the thing, what I touched
on a minute ago, which was manysessions, so you're new in a
market and you're like, hey,normally I would charge let's
say, $1,000 or $500. For thisquick family Christmas card
photoshoot? It's $150. Right?That's a fast way. And like a

(01:08:10):
small investment for people tobe able to give you a chance.
That's the first one. And thesecond one. How do you get
people to trust you as let themsee your work? So walk with a
camera? What like, like, peoplewalk their dog, walk your
camera, go to a coffee shop, putyour camera right next to your
laptop. Okay? Invite people forthat. You know, they say like,

(01:08:33):
Okay, if someone dresses verysexy, they're inviting. Eyes to
like, look at them. If someonedresses very intimidating.
They're inviting a judgement. Sowhen you walk in, I'm not saying
it's right or wrong. I'm justsaying like, it happens right?
When you like, it's kind of likethe people that fly with their

(01:08:53):
Louis Vuitton bags and like youare inviting theft for people to
open your bags at the airportand start going through stuff.
So when you go with a camera,you are inviting conversation.
And people will ask, Oh, are youa photographer? No, I really
have this giant thing for fun,you know, but and so. But people

(01:09:15):
will talk and then they'll see.Get out of the house. Get out of
as artists we hide in theselittle caves. Like as artists if
you disappeared sometimes yourfriends and family may not know
for three days that you havebeen kidnapped. Because we don't
see the sun as much we sit inthis corner and we stare at the
monitor and we work and we workand we work get out and sit at a

(01:09:38):
coffee shop. Go to a cafe andeat a little slower and do some
work. Go somewhere. Go to abookstore go like just be
outside let people see you. Ifyour ideal client let's say
you're in a new year like okay,suddenly I'm the higher price
photographer but what kind ofphotographer Are you? Are you As

(01:10:01):
a family photographer, where dothe families go? They you can be
there too, and not be creepyabout it, you know. So for
example, let's say there'sbeautiful hiking trails by your
house. And that's where peoplelike to take their kids and
their dog and they go, you gothere too, and you take some
beautiful photos, just enjoynature be just be present.

(01:10:22):
People will walk by, and youwill start having conversations
with people. Okay? So putyourself again, in the space
that they want to be. The secondthing is Wait, the exact
question was, how do you getthem to trust you is? Yeah,
yeah, is word of mouth really,really is important. You know,

(01:10:46):
nowadays, we can have theworld's biggest stars say, Do
you must buy this computermonitor? I don't care. I want to
know what the photographer with700 followers says about this
monitor. That's what I reallycare about. So ask people in
your life to help you. Mostpeople. 1% are really terrible

(01:11:06):
people, I will say this 99% ofpeople are really good. They
want to help you. They don'tknow how to help you. So they
don't help you. Okay, so I'llsay that one more time. 99% of
people are really good. Theywant to help you. They don't
know how to help you. So theydon't. If you were to actually
ask for people to help you andsay, Hey, I am new to the

(01:11:32):
market. And I really want to getinto photographing for
restaurants in the area. Do youknow anybody like that could
really benefit from a menurevamp or reinvention of their
menu? You'd be surprised howmany people know somebody who
knows somebody. Okay? Talk aboutit. Ask people how they can help

(01:11:52):
you tell them, hey, you canreally help me by connecting me
with the HR lady at your office.If she's doing all the LinkedIn
portraits, you can really helpme by connecting me to your mom
group you can really help me byI don't know like connecting me
to three people in an email, askpeople for help, people will

(01:12:15):
help you and I know that thismakes people like really freak
out. Like I have that on mycourse we have a whole script of
how you do it and what step andwhen, but it does help. I'll
give one more tip just to likemake sure maybe you know
different things help differentpeople so a put yourself in
their position walk your cameraand be asked people for help.

(01:12:36):
See, I guess is the minisessions that really boosts your
portfolio fast. A lot ofexamples, but maybe I can do a
quick fourth one because I kindof promised something off the
top my head I think you knowwhat? You help people you know,
I said, have people help you.You go help them? If you see so

(01:12:57):
back on the example of Okay, sohere's an example. My friend
used to have the world's ugliestcoffee shop. Not because she
wanted that. I was like, Yo, theart here is so ugly on the
walls. It is so ugly. It'scriminal. Like it's like you
almost want to call the policeit is that ugly? Okay. But

(01:13:18):
people would hang out there. AndI would say hey, Camry your
space is so cool. This beautifullittle cottage people come here
you're near the university. Whathave you put like different
kinds of art that does showcasethat upscale the furniture, the
the walls, the flooring,everything and it just looks
more like a gallery versus likegrandma's old cottage. And

(01:13:42):
grandma died five years ago, butyou haven't remodelled the
cottage yet. Okay, and helppeople. And maybe like in that
case, offer them some porch andsay, Can we put this up on your
wall, you can have my businesscards on the side of your
counter. If anyone wants to buyit, give them my card. Or, hey,
I really really love yourrestaurant. Your food is so

(01:14:04):
delicious. I've been driving byyour store for four years. I've
never wanted to come in becauseit didn't like your
advertisement isn't there. I seethat you're a mom and pop
business. I know that you guysare doing everything would you
be open if I helped you one daymaybe like photograph four of
your main dishes and just giveyou something beautiful that you

(01:14:25):
can put on Instagram and Yelpand things like that help that
once the conversation startsgood is infectious and it just
keeps getting bigger and biggerand bigger. I know that's like
kind of woowoo stuff but that'struly helped people and then the
world will help you back

that's that's I think you know like
that is so important. I love howyou share that last bit and
because help people is you knowwhen you it just takes me back
to the Bill Gates story righthow when he used to be broke,
you know, he, he helped out andand he always say that, you know

(01:15:04):
it does if you don't offer ahand when you're struggling,
you're not going to help peoplewhen you reach when you make it,
right, because that's the natureof it. So, and you know, karma
always came back. And you knowthe other story about always I
think Tony Robbins use thisstory of how he gave like, money

(01:15:29):
to this, to help out thisperson. And during the hardest
time he he was he needed thatmoney, but that person can go
and compete back. But in theend, Something opened up, you
know, at that exact moment thathe needed the money he actually
get more than what he gave up.And, you know, there's a lot of
other story that you know, Imean, whether you believe it or

(01:15:51):
not in karma, you know, if youdo good, it's, it's natural,
that good will follow your way.Right. Exactly. So I really love
that that. That advice? Well,um, well, it's been incredible.
Thank you for being here.Usually, I would ask my audience

(01:16:17):
or sorry, my guess, you know,what is the one advice that they
would give to the audience, butI feel like what you just gave
right, there is such a goodadvice, unless you have any
other advice that you want togive.

Number one will thank you for having me on, and
your podcast, thank you forhaving this podcast. Because I,
you know, it, this is all partof that positive wave of helping
our peers and all of us becauselike, when you do better, I will
do better. And when I do better,the next photographer does
better and we rise up together,right, or we think together,
too. So I appreciate that. Iguess you know what I will just

(01:16:55):
say one quick thing is it'scliche, but edit your circle,
more than you edit your photos.So I'm sorry, if if your friends
are talking about other people,you're not going to go very far.
Like, truly watch your circle,you're not going to go far, if

(01:17:20):
you hang out with people whodon't dream big, who don't scare
you, because they're like doingsomething amazing. And then it
makes you step up. And if youhang out with crappy people,
that is your future, like it is100%. So it's cliche, it's
nothing new. But I swear by it.If somebody in your family,

(01:17:42):
somebody that is blood, somebodythat has a coworker, or
neighbour, if anybody diminishesyour goals and your dreams, you
don't owe them an explanationever, ever, ever. You can step
away silently, you don't have toannounce it. You Your only job
is to save that child inside ofyou that still wants to create

(01:18:05):
and treat that situation likeyou're helping a child, get
yourself get that child out ofimmediate path of danger. Anyone
that would like what would youdo if someone is telling a kid,
you're dumb, you'll never makeit. This is stupid. Like it'll,
it's just unrealistic, you wouldmove that child out of that
situation and tell that personto stop, you kind of have to

(01:18:28):
read now you're not kinda youabsolutely have to do that for
yourself. And just watchpeople's energy, like people say
a lot of things. And then at thesame time, if people are really,
really supportive of you, thenkeep them near and, and match
that energy to so you got tolike feed them and they'll feed

(01:18:50):
you back and forth, back andforth. But cut out the haters
let them let them go into likehater Ville, by themselves and
disappear. Don't care, family,friends, neighbours anyone?

I'm so glad that you give that last
advice because that is soimportant. You know, like, it's
been proven that we are ourenvironment. You know, the way
we grew up the way who we becomeis because the environment that
we've been put through. So it's100% True. So, you know, it's

(01:19:22):
all love. I love how you saythat because I feel like I used
to be there as well. And I knowthe feeling of like attachment
to your family and friends. Andyou know, I think he just had a
little bit to that you don'thave to get rid of them
completely, but just manage theexposure to them. Right. So that

(01:19:45):
is such a great advice. Wallet.I'm so happy to have you here.
You know, it's been a greatconversation. I really enjoyed
this. And prior to this, Ireally don't know you kind of
reach out and I was like, Idon't know who this is. But you
know, this always this is why Iput down the podcast it's I just
love getting to know people andgetting to understand their

(01:20:07):
story and their wisdom and theiradvice that they can give out to
the world. So you've done a lotof work, you've done a beautiful
photography, you know, forartists and also projects for
different famous peoplecelebrate these as well as you
know, your personal project.Now, for those of for those

(01:20:30):
people who want to get to knowyou better, or want to get in
touch with you or want to findout more about you know, this
course, what is the best way tofind you?

Um, you can always, you know what, Instagram, you
can find me on Instagram, whilehe does me, you can always send
DMS, I do get to all my DMs. Ijust think it's rude when you
ignore the DMS. So I do getthrough all of them. I do
respond to all. And then fromthere, I can guide you to like,
oh, you know, that would be onmy YouTube channel, or that's
like a paid course or that'sthis blog post. Yeah, them and,

(01:21:06):
and it could be any kind ofphotography. And it could be any
stage of your career. Sodefinitely open to all kinds.

That is incredible. Yeah, we'll put
all the links on thedescription. If you want to get
in touch and find out a littlebit more about what Waleed is
doing, as well as how well ithelps other photographer and
artists, you know, to get out ofthis starving artists mentality,
which I believe is veryimportant. So thank you very

(01:21:37):
much. Well, it for today, it hasbeen a really good conversation.
You know, I always tried to capit on one hour. And I know we go
over a little bit. But there isso many more questions. Yeah,
no, of course, there's so manymore questions that I'd love to
that I want to ask you. So youknow, perhaps, you know,
sometime in the future, we'llget you back. But I really

(01:21:59):
appreciate your time. Appreciateall the wisdom that you give me
as well as the audience, aswell, as I appreciate, you know,
your positivity and you know,the positive vibe that you bring
to this conversation.

Thank you very much. Thank you. I actually had
a really well, why don't I sayactually, I had a really good
time. I'm very conscious not tosay that I said, I had a great
time. Thank you. And and myassistant is about found I said,
let's find the best podcasts sowe can go visit. And you know,
and yours definitely was rightthere on that list. So I'm very

(01:22:34):
thankful to have had thisopportunity to

do that meant a lot. Thank you very
much. Wiki hunters. Thank youfor being here. Thank you for
tuning in for another podcast.Hopefully you listen and apply
what you have to learn today.And you know, even though this
was a conversation, Wally, Ihave given a lot of wisdom, a
lot of advice on what you can doif you do want to make your

(01:23:00):
money, when you want to makemoney out of your art. Whether
you're doing a hobby part, youknow, part time or full time and
you know, it's it's onlyknowledge is only a potential
power. And only it only becomeyour power when you apply. So
make sure you you do what what Ihave told you, right. If you

(01:23:23):
want to learn more about what hedoes to help more of you out
there, then please do check outthe link on the description. But
with that being said, you know,we do this every month, every
week to get other artists intothe podcast. So if you do enjoy
this conversation, please doleave a review so that other

(01:23:45):
people who are looking forwisdom, inspirations and who are
hitting the brick wall andburnout can get out of it
through some of these inspiringstories and advices from
photographers all around theworld. Well, with that being
said, thank you very much forbeing here. Keep creating, keep

(01:24:05):
being creative and go out thereand shoot. I'll see you later.

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Ep 48 - How to value yourself, your photography & find dream customers who are willing to pay for your photography with Celebrity Photographer Walid Azami

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