Ep 58 - How Barry Sutton Sold Out One Of A Kind AI & Photography NFT Collection - The Art of Photography

Episode Transcript
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Barry Sutton (00:00):
Yeah, I understand that a

(00:01):
lot of photographersare, are afraid of
what AI might do totheir career or TV
or to the genre ofphotography. And I
think some of thosefears are real

Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt (00:11):
Hey Wicked Hunters
Welcome back to TheArt of Photography
podcast, where weshare artists
journey and ourphotography, giving
them purpose andhappiness. And today

(00:31):
we have someonewho's very special.
And I know thattopic around AI has
been a lot ofConverse, there has
been a lot ofconversation around
AI and Barry hadmanaged to create
something that'struly unique with
his NFT projects, aswell as some of his
photographs theyhave taken, you
know, throughout theyears. So very

(00:53):
controversial, veryfun, but also very
educational. Forthose of you who
want to learn alittle bit more
about it. Barry,welcome back to the
podcast. Thank youvery much for
sparing your time.And, you know, to
join this and shareyour story and
inspire thelisteners out there.

Thanks for having me here.

Yeah, so you know, it's
been, I followedyou, I saw your
project and whatyou've done from a
friend, and it'svery inspiring to
see how you have puttogether, you know,
what you have puttogether and we'll
go, we'll go intothat a little bit
later. I know youhad massive success,

(01:37):
you know, build abig community
through this projectas well. But before
we get that, I'dlike to know, how
did you get started,you know, you were
showing me your veryfirst camera
earlier, right? Whatmakes you fall in
love withphotography and want
to do more of it?

Well, that's a thanks for
asking, it's a greatplace to start. You
know, I was, I wasstudying, I was
studying music,actually in college.
And after the firstsemester, I I didn't
know where that wasgoing to take me.
And after that firstsummer, my roommate

(02:18):
was an amazinggraphic designer.
And I had always, Iwas always drawn and
painted as a kid.And even from I
think my mom savedportraits that I
made when I was liketwo years old. And I
had a real sense oflike, capturing the
world and I was alittle kid. And and

(02:40):
that year, I sort ofchanged my focus
from, from music tothe visual arts. And
the next year, Ipacked up my car in
the middle of thenight and drove back
to Los Angeles, andfrom school and
decided I wanted toenrol in art school.
And I studiedgraphic design for a
couple of years and,and first picked up

(03:01):
a Polaroid camera,which was just a
revelation for me,because I was I was
just the magic ofthis sort of instant
gratification ormaking an exact
replication of whatyou saw so quickly.
Just really, it justreally took off. And
really, from thatmoment on, I think I

(03:23):
was destined to, topursue a path as
sharper, rather thana graphic designer.
And that took a fewyears to kind of
like make its wayfull time into my,
into myconsciousness. But
yeah, eventuallyended up with a
camera that wasreally never looked
back.

That's incredible. And I
know you, you know,you you spent the
last three decadesphotography, youth
culture, musicianscelebrate these,
celebrate thesepassion and all this
stuff and what, youknow what, what
drawn you to thatpart of the
geography becauseyou know, there are
we know, there's alot of different

(04:01):
photographyphotography in this
world. And, youknow, I myself, I
love into theadventure
astrophotographygoing out to, you
know, in the middleof the night to the
place that no onegoes to. And so I'm
interested in whatinterests you from
from this path ofthe photography.

Well, you know, when, when
I first got startedwith the camera I
was very influencedby some of the
partners who I wasstudying, like
Edward Weston, andhe made these
beautiful, stilllike photographs
that were beyondwhat the subjects

(04:42):
were, if that makessense, like his
famous photograph ofthe pepper. It
really looks it's sosculptural. It's
such a local print.It goes beyond the
picture. Youwouldn't look at it
and say, Oh, that'sa picture of a
pepper. It's almostlike Good, it's
almost like aspiritual experience
to look at thatphotograph. And that

(05:04):
was reallyinteresting to me.
But to get to thatsort of level of
technical skill, andunderstanding, like,
you just really haveto go out and take
pictures. And so Ithink like most
photographers, whenI started out, I've
just put a cameraaround my neck and
walk in and takingpictures of what I
saw, and, you know,elements of
architecture anddesign and things

(05:25):
like that, thatreally caught my eye
and we're like,we're in this
conversationtogether. But you
know, the cool thingabout photography is
that it can be apassport to whatever
you're reallyinterested in, in
the real world. And,and so, I was really
interesting intoseeing live

(05:47):
concerts. And so youknow, la being, you
know, such a greatcity, we're for live
music, on a, I wouldthrow my camera
around my shoulder,and just show up
and, you know,sponsored I wanted
to go to, and Iwould try to like,
figure out how toweasel myself back
the engine, peoplewould see me with

(06:07):
the camera, maybelike, okay, you can
go in here. And, andso I really started
photographing bands,when I when I first
started and that'sreally what got me
gotten started.

Wow, that's, that's
awesome, man. Yeah,that's, that's
always interesting.Interesting to hear
where the interestcome from now. You
know, um, have youever explore other
genres ofphotography? And,
um, you know, intotravel landscape,
very common ones? Oreven, you know, more
on the more like,macro side of

(06:43):
things? Or have thisalways been the type
of photography thatyou just find
fulfilment in andnever really
interested on other?And trying other
genre or one?

Yeah, that's a great
question. I think,you know, for young
photographers, Ithink it's really,
really important toexplore, and to
experiment, and toreally take the
camera or whatever,you know, wherever
you're inclined togo. And, and I think
it's also importantto try a lot of
different things. Imean, I think as a

(07:19):
photographer, youknow, this sounds
really rudimentary,but I mean, the
first question ofphotographer has to
answer is, what am Igoing to take a
picture of, becauseit's such a big
world, you know, wego outside and, and
are we going to takepictures of like,
insects on a leafare we going to take
pictures of, youknow, the moon, and

(07:40):
the stars are wegoing to take
pictures of peopleon the streets, you
know, there's justlike, the whole
world is out there.And it really just
depends on whatwe're really drawn
to. And so, youknow, when I started
photographingconcerts, it really
turned into a realobsession with
photographing youthculture. And at that

(08:01):
time, I wasphotographing a lot
of people my ownage. And as this,
you know, theconnection and
understanding ofyouth culture,
matured, as I gotolder, the subjects
in my photographsremained the same.
There's a verystrange kind of, you
know, as I getolder, like, the
subject matter isstill the same,

(08:23):
which I think isjust a really
interestingcommentary on like,
I don't know, myrelationship with,
you know, withageing, and, you
know, and, and, andthe sort of, you
know, you know,beautiful naivety of
youth culture, andso that really
became my focus, um,and it's been my
focus for the past,it's hard to imagine

(08:45):
30 plus years, butat the same time,
you know, I think,if you if you are a
photographer, youphotograph like,
many, many things,you know, I take my
camera on vacationwith me, I'm always
shooting landscapesand, you know,
pictures you know,local things,

(09:09):
people, objects,still rapes, all
kinds of stuff. So,I mean, you know, I
kind of I'mdefinitely one of
those, like, verypossessed
photographers tojust take the
picture ofeverything. But, and
that keeps me very,you know, interested
in the world and Iguess, you know,
well rounded as anartist, but the
focus of my work haslargely built on

(09:30):
youth culture.

Yeah, no, 100% and thanks
for sharing that.Now. It's, it's
really interesting.I want to hear this,
this mistake fromyou, you know, I'll
ask your perspectiveto youth culture. Or
shifted or has itever been shifted,
you know, throughoutyour lifetime
because like yousay, you looking at

(09:54):
it from a differentlens, right. You
started off as youknow, you have this
kind of like friendsThen all sudden
steer like, way, youknow, as you grow
older is like thegap is getting
bigger and you know,the things that
people do kind ofshifted as well with
the culture and thetechnology. Right?

(10:15):
So how has thatjourney been of
youth culture, fromyour perspective,
but also from theworld perspective,
in terms oftechnological
advance cultureshift and all that
stuff?

Yeah, well, what a great
question, I think,you know, when I was
when I was firsttaking pictures,
and, and unbeknownstto me, my focus was
on youth culture.Those were my peers.
And these are thepeople I was hanging
out with, and thebands that I was
doing, they wereall, like, my age,
or a couple yearsolder. And so I
didn't really thinkabout it. In that

(10:53):
way, I just wasphotographing my
world. And, youknow, the truth is,
I think, as I'vegotten older, that
world hasn't changedso much. I mean, it
hasn't, it has, its,you know, this, the
this pursuit of joy,or rapture, and this

(11:21):
sort of feelingthat, like, we'll
never get old, we'llnever, you know, we
can do anything,anything is
possible. This kindof naivety of like,
I don't know that Ican fail. Like, I
just don't, if youdon't know, that you
can build, really,you have an idea
that you can doanything. And I
think it's thisspirit of youth

(11:42):
culture, that's sointeresting, to me,
it's so exciting.Again, you know, I
didn't think aboutit so much when I
was photographing mypeers. But as I've
gotten older, itreally, there's some
perspective that youget that that's
really, you reallysee the beauty and
and you just see thebeauty of being

(12:07):
young and havingsort of, like, you
know, the whole yourwhole life
experience in frontof you is, you know,
it's really a uniqueperspective to have
when you're thatage. And so for me,
you know, there's alot of like,
excitement andaction are love and

(12:28):
angst and otheremotions that, you
know, we have, andwhere that is that,
for me, it's just soexciting to
photograph and tocapture. And, you
know, you see that alot of in 96 degrees
in the shade. Whichwas really
interesting. Becausewhen people looked

(12:50):
at that collectionof photography, one
of the overwhelmingreactions to that
was that it was verynostalgic. And so I
can speak a littlebit more about that,
but, but I don'twant to go on and
on. But so I'll justkind of leave it
there. But yeah, itwas, I think it was,

(13:11):
yeah, this is justsomething that my
perspective hasshifted. But I think
that's only given memore sort of, of a
broad view to, to,to gain an
understanding oflike, what that's
about, and it just,you know, helps me
every day in my, youknow, in my practice

(13:31):
on, and now and sortof extension of that
into AI.

Yeah, have that
perspective, youknow, as you as you
kind of age and gothrough more stages
of life, you, youstart seeing, like
you say, right, iffirstly was your
world, and then youstart kind of seeing
it from a thirdperson perspective,
have that reallyhave that helped you

(13:57):
to captured orinterpret the
messages or theculture better in
any ways? Or, youknow, if it has,
like, how has ithelped you to do
that?

That's a That's a tough
one, I think. Youknow, as artists
we're dealing with,we're creating
things that are twodimensional, you
know, they're reallyrecreating, you
know, flat art. Andso, in a way, you
know, what we'rereally constrained
with, as artists iswhat's in the frame

(14:35):
now. So I thinkthere's a, I think
there's aperspective about
the subject matterthat like allows me
as a photographer asan artist to connect
with the subjectwith more love and
empathy. But Ithink, you know, as

(14:55):
an artist, the a lotof that lot Have
that learningrelates to actually,
like, out of fit,how to tell the
story and how to fitwhat you eat, and
what you want tosay, within the
confines of this ofthese borders.
Right? So, you know,I suppose if I was a

(15:16):
writer, I might beeven more
introspective, and,you know, having
this sort ofmeditative
experience ofwriting. But as a
photographer, yeah,it's just, it's,
it's, it's reallygiven me, it's
really giving me theexperience to figure
out how to fit, youknow, the story

(15:38):
inside the bordersof France.

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's
such an interestingtake, you know, you
know, sometimes thisthought just come to
my head, veryinterested to hear
this sort ofperspective. Yeah.
And so you release,I think it was 100
collections ofphotos in the 90 on

(16:02):
your first project,right, and it was
called the 96 degreein the shade. And
then now you have afollow up from there
called the traces oftruth, which is, I
believe it was 500works. And you have
integrated AI intophotography and have

(16:23):
used the NFT, or theblockchain platform
to as the medium tobe able to sell your
artwork and yourcollection and your
perspective to theworld. Now, before
we get into allthat, I'd like to
hear a little bit.What. So you have
been in photographyfor a while, you

(16:44):
know, working as aphotographer, now,
what draw you intothe web three, or
the NFT space as aphotographer?

Well, I was, you know, I'm
very much atechnophile may
well, newtechnology, I'm like
the first one inline to get the
latest iPhone whenit comes out. You
know, I've alwayslike, really looked
at technology asjust something that
could help me dowhat I'm doing
better and moreefficiently. And I'm
excited to like theI'm always on the

(17:16):
bleeding edge ofwhat's coming next.
So when, when Iheard about this app
called clubhouse, Iwas, and this was
back in the springof 2021. I was
really upset that Ididn't get an
invitation. And mygirlfriend at the

(17:36):
time, who's not mywife, but she, she
got an invitation.And I was like, you
know, maybe I canuse her phone until
I can get onclubhouse and, you
know, make a profileand everything. And
eventually, I mean,within a few weeks,
somebody who Ididn't even know
invited me intoclubhouse, you know,
jumped on. And thefirst like, reason I
saw were NF T's. Iwas like, What is.

(18:00):
And so I justlistened, and every
day on my way to theoffice, I I put my
headphones on andlisten to clubhouse,
and listen to these,you know, people
talking about NF T'sand just started
investigating it.And that's how I
sort of found outabout what web three
was about and, youknow, desperately

(18:21):
wanted to be a partof, but I wasn't
seeing really anyphotography. So that
was, so there was alearning process
going on, while Iwas trying to figure
out whether therewas a place there
for me.

And so that was so
finding your brokeclub, cause I think,
you know, it wasvery nostalgic.
It's, it's all, it'swhere it all started
for many of us inthe web three and
the NFT space. Now,when you listen to
that, and then youkind of, you know,
hear about it, how,what's your

(18:55):
perspective of theweb three, and how
you feel you can fitin or make this
technology help youor work with to be
able to spread yourstory, you know, out
there in this world?

Well, you know, the nice
thing aboutclubhouse is that
the My first goalwas actually to like
get on stage andtalk. It was it was
a moment where therewere like just a few
people. Just a fewpeople talking about
art in the NFTspace. And it was
really hard to geton stage and but you

(19:30):
know, even if I gotunsaved I didn't
really know what Iwas talking about.
So so, you know,like funnelling
people indesperately like
trying to be a partof the conversation.
But I also thenstarted to jump on
open CDA, we'll lookat what kind of NF
T's were being sold.And it was a lot of
like, it was a lotof moving picture.

(19:52):
It was a lot of 3dautomation stuff and
it was like I don'tknow how to do this
and so but really myyou know, Oh, this
isn't really mygenre, I could
participate. And,um, I somehow found
my way onto apodcast with this
guy named GMO. And,and, and oh, sorry,

(20:17):
no, no, it was apodcast with Justin
ever. Sano. AndJustin, as you
probably know, is,you know, a very
well knownphotographer and web
three space, a youngguy, really
beautiful young guyand just like, has a
lot of heart and anddid this big project
on twin flames. Andit was just, you
know, years longproject that

(20:38):
photographing twinson the world. And
that was reallyinterested in that
project hadn'treally taken off. I
mean, it's sort ofhow but it was,
didn't sort of hitthe stratosphere, as
it did, you know,within six months
from that time, butJustin was talking

(20:59):
about his journey inthe NFT space and
talked about thisguy named GMO, and
who was his firstcollector and a real
supporter of his atthe time, so I'm
enjoying it, it tooknotes, I was like,
okay, gimana gonnafind this guy. Like,
right, right down,Justin, I reside on
the farm, and bothon Twitter. And
that's how itstarted, I reached

(21:19):
out to them both onTwitter, I must have
had, like, 20followers at the
time. So I didn'tthink that either of
them were gonna getback to me. And, and
Justin, who hadn'tstarted quantum yet.
got back to me, yousaid, hey, you know,
how can I help? AndI said, Hey, well,
you know, I'm, Iwant to put out this

(21:41):
series ofphotographs. And I
would just love toget your input. And
so I said, Yeah,send send me some.
So I went back, setup a web page with
like, 20 pictureswere what became 96
degrees in theshade. I don't even
think it was calledthat at that time.
And we'll give it atitle. And I sent
him this, this webpage with 20

(22:02):
pictures on he waslike, Oh, wow, he's
like, I want one.These are really
cool. So that wasthe start for me.
And I thought, okay,maybe I have
somethinginteresting here.
And literally, like,maybe a couple hours
later, or maybe thenext day, our G
minor went back in.And, and of course I
like I projectedthat no, not

(22:25):
projected I, I lethim know that Justin
was reallyinterested in my
work. And I probablywould wait it up a
little bit. And,and, and he got, he
must have gone backto just them to ask
him like, Who isthis guy? What is
this? What's hisstory? And the next
day, I was out oftown with my
girlfriend. And Iget this note on

(22:48):
Twitter that from Gman who was really
interested in thework and though, so
we got on the phoneright at that time.
And he said, youknow, how many
pieces are going tobe in this
collection? And Ijust remembered the
twin flames as 100pieces stuff. I
said, my feet 100pieces. And, and,
and he said, Ohamazing. He said, I

(23:10):
really love whatyou're doing. What
would you thinkabout me buying 20
of those. And well,at that time, I just
like, you know, Isaid to my
girlfriend, we gottaget home, I got
worked. And that'show it started. So
you know, I mean,this is this was a
real moment of whatthey say that like,

(23:36):
success equalspreparedness plus
opportunity. And soI was somewhat
prepared because Ihad some information
and I had some, somesome pictures that
were ready to kindof show somebody and
the opportunitycame. And you know,
it's sort of, it'ssort of just really

(23:57):
really rocketed fromthere.

Yeah, no, that's amazing.
I love hearing that.And, you know,
massive kudos foryou for making that
happen. So tell me,tell us a little bit
about you know, whatis the 9096 degree
in the shadeproject? You know,
what does it how didhow did it come

(24:23):
together as acollective and what
it is about?

Well, I was I was living
in Miami Beach atthe time I had I
left San Francisco,sort of as the.com
era was imploding.Everybody was
getting laid off. Iwas working as a
tech in the techindustry as a
marketing guy andand eventually led

(24:49):
me to this to thisphoto studio called
blue sky. And then Ihad an opportunity
to go to Miami andand I took it in So
I was in Miami. Andyou know, Miami is a
very hot place. Imean, you, you know,
I think I went forlike, eight or nine
months withoutputting on a pair of

(25:10):
socks, it was just,I spent most of the
day outside with mycamera, most of the
time on the beach,and they started
meeting a lot ofpeople, and we'd
hang out the beachand start
photographingpeople. And the more
people I got to knowand more time I
spent, it started toreally become. I

(25:33):
didn't think of itas a project at the
time, but it didbecome a project.
And I slowly startedto get some clients
in the fashionindustry. And so I
started, rather thanrenting a studio for
this shoot, Istarted bringing my
clients to thebeach, and we would
just use the beachas the backdrop, the

(25:55):
most beautifullight, really, you
can stand by thewater and have this
incredible, like,light and incredible
background thatdrains the subject
so beautifully. Andso that was so
that's sort of sortof how it started.
And so many of thepeople in the

(26:16):
collection of 96degrees in the
shade, were modelsor other people that
were on shootingwith me. And other
times, they werejust people who I
met at the beachand, you know, just
said hey, do youmind if I take a
photograph on you?So, so that's sort
of how it started.The kind of the

(26:40):
magical thing aboutthat is those
photographs weretaken between
2003 2007 and, youknow, we know NFS
didn't start untilyou know, you will
okay 20 2017 2018But photography in
the United Statesdidn't start till
2021 So So thosepictures were in

(27:00):
Buxton. It was allshot on the home,
most of his shot ona Pentax 6.7 camera,
with Kodak by x max,one 100 400
Sometimes, sometimesFuji colour film.
And so I wentthrough a process of
scanning that workas I began to

(27:25):
understand what'sgoing on in the in,
in a T space, butyou know, this stuff
set in boxes for youknow, good 15 years
before it came tolife as as NF. T So,
there's aninteresting story
there.

Yeah, wow, that's crazy.
It's crazy howthings kind of make
make around and youknow, come come back
to you, isn't it?So, so that was
incredible, youknow, to be able to
see you or you'reable to so you're
able to put out to100 of that photos

(28:01):
out there in theblockchain and you
know, got collected20 of the right away
by GE money which isa big collector in
the space and thenthe next project
after that is tracesof truth. Right? If
I if I Well, there's

a few there's there's a
couple in betweenthere's there's a
couple that I won'ttalk about a whole
lot but but just tojust to end in the
story about Greg andsister shared other
optional we'replanning to get back
to it. Is thatbecause the punks
discord was with thetwin flames Justin's

(28:38):
twin flames discordwas was just getting
started. And therewere a lot of a lot
of his collectorswere punks, and then
board eightcollectors. And they
were reallyinterested in
photography at thattime. And when g
money came in, andJustin came in, and
they were bothtalking about my
project, the projectessentially sold out
immediately. And Imean, not on the day

(29:03):
that it wasreleased. But what
happened was I hadreally put the cart
before the horsehere I had really
like started gettingthe collection.
Actually up on OpenCV for all 100
pieces were evenlike getting around
every touched. Soevery day stuff for
three days. I wasputting up as many

(29:25):
pictures as I could.On the first day I
put up 40 picturesand they all sold
out like within likewithin moments of
like them gettingposted in price on
open seat would getsold. And then I
think what happenedwas people were
basically they knewabout the
collection. Theywere excited about
it. They wereexcited about
clickingphotography, it was

(29:46):
really early days,and they were just
refreshing the page.And when a new item
was listed, boom,they would just buy
it. I don't eventhink they were
looking at it to seewhat was the subject
matter. So So Littleafter the first day,
or 40 pieces that Ihad put up sold next
day, I think 30pieces, and then the

(30:07):
following day 30pieces, and they all
sold outimmediately. And
there's just onestory about this
collection that Ireally want to put
in the podcastbecause because it's
just it was someaningful to me.
And it's just so wasjust so fantastic.
There was acollective, whose
handle on Twitterhas warned himself

(30:29):
and from Germany,and he's quite a
prominent guy in thespace now. I didn't
really know it atthe time, but he was
messaging me onDiscord begging me
to like tell himwhen the next
pictures were goingto be uploaded
because he wastrying to get as
many pieces as hecould from the
collection. Andthere was this

(30:50):
passage, and I sayfrom discord where
he said, Barry,listen, I take my
laptop to thiswedding is there I'm
at a wedding thisweekend. I have my
laptop open, and I'mstanding in the
parking lot. And I'mgetting eaten alive
by mosquitoes. Whenare you going to

(31:10):
post the nextpicture? And I
really, really feltthat because I
didn't know he hadalready picked up
like five bits andpieces at that time.
So I Yeah, so it's Ikind of told him
like, Okay, I'mabout to like, I'm
about to put likeanother five or 10
pieces. So heliterally stayed in
this parking lotwith his laptop. I

(31:31):
imagine like thewedding was going on
in the background.And he was lagging
after us. You know,it's just it was so
fantastic. It wasthe energy was
amazing. And, andthen Mike and I, his
name was Mike and heand I had become
really good friendsover the over the
years. And he's oneof my biggest
collectors long. ButI wanted to get that
story out therebecause it is so

(31:52):
indicative of like,the excitement and
passion thatcollectors are, you
know, we're havingfor photography. I
think that's stillhappening, but maybe
in a slightlydifferent moment.

Yeah, so that's Yeah, I
think that's, that'sprobably one of the
best feeling, youknow, any
photographers oreven artists, right
could have this assomebody out there
waiting for you andreally want to
collect their artfor what it is
right? Not becauseyou know, not

(32:26):
because this, thisart is made for
them. But it'ssomething that's
truly represent ofwho you are what you
believe in tocapture it. And then
there are somebodywho actually out
there wanting itappreciating I think
that as an artist, Idon't I don't know
if there is anybetter feeling than
that, to be honest.

Yeah, no, it's really
true. I mean, I'vetalked to people for
many years, I was asoccer player when I
was a kid, whenthere's no, I think
there's still nofeeling like scoring
a goal playingsoccer. That, to me
is like theultimate, but I
think selling likehaving somebody
appreciate you'reworking and spending
their hard earnedmoney to buy it and
being excited aboutit and tweeting

(33:07):
about it and tellingother people about
it just it really issomething and I have
to say that like fornew photographers
who are listening tothis. It took me a
good 40 years don'treally sell
photographs in thisway. Like I did not
maybe not for us.But it it was not
something that I wasnot part of, I've

(33:29):
not been part of thegallery system. I
don't have a galleryin Chelsea, selling
my work, wanting toput out the next
things. I didn'thave a cadre of
collectors who were,you know, waiting
for the gallery to,you know, put up a
new collection ofwork I did on my
work and a couple ofa couple of

(33:50):
prominent collectorslike Calvin Klein
and David Geffen,who had met over the
years have collectedmy work but not to
the extent that youknow that I had a
real big audiencefor it. So NF T's
were really thefirst time I had an
opportunity to growmy collector base
and to have thisexperience and

(34:11):
stunning work. Sobut to but to fast
forward. And just tomake a bridge to the
to the AI work. Idid put out a
collection, a smallcollection on
foundation calledParis in the summer.
And it's acollection of eight
photographs I madeof Paris Hilton on
the beach in Miamiat that time. And

(34:32):
and that was a mixof colour and black
and whitephotographs. And
there's a long storyI could get into
about if you getinto another part
but you can find uson foundation and
that was actually asmall collection
that I put out after96 degrees in the
shade. Yeah, sothere's a couple
other small projectsthat he did, but
essentially, youknow, I became

(34:57):
interested in AI andAI But you're also
an interesting,interesting place to
sort of segue into.

Yeah, 100%? You know, so
you had that assetphotographers, you
know, it's reallyinteresting how you
get interested in AIbecause, you know,
in a lot ofphotography, you
know, as aphotographer, AI is
being frowned upon,in most cases. So
what inspire you toget into AI? You

(35:29):
know, and, and totest it out, you
know, to create thiscollections?

Well, I think, like,
interest in AIreally was related
to what I've beenreferring to as the
death of truth. Andthere's a very,
there's a veryinteresting, very
interesting, sort ofextension of

(35:56):
photography intointo AI. And, and I
think a lot ofphotographers Yeah,
I understand that alot of photographers
are, are afraid ofwhat AI might do to
their career, or TV,or to the genre of
photography, and Ithink some of those
fears are real, orbased on real, real

(36:19):
things happening.And he, I think, a
stock photographyspace there, you
know, there may be,there probably will
be a very bigtakeover of the
production of AIwork is pretty easy
to represent some ofthe more sort of
banal like,scenarios that sort
of dominate, youknow, the stock

(36:41):
photography, worldand landscape might
be pretty easy toproduce a picture of
a young personeating ice cream
might, you know, besomething that you
maybe want to moveinto a different
area, if you'redoing that kind of
photography, some ofthe general sort of
advertising thingsthat, you know,

(37:03):
advertisers arebuying in stock
photography, mightswitch over to AI, I
think it's ographerswill either have to
become really,really great
programmers. I don'tmean computer
programmers, but,you know, sort of
prompters to keepthat, you know,
segments of themarket. And I think

(37:24):
photographers willhave a pretty easy,
easy way doing that,because, you know,
if you have aphotographic eye, or
a really good senseof composition, and,
and emotion, and,and this sort of
thing, so, I'm notso sure that it's
that all of thosefears are totally
founded, because,you know,
technology's alwaysinfluenced

(37:46):
photography over theyears don't, you
know, if you go backinto the history or
a photography, youknow, is photography
sort of, at onepoint supplanted
painting as the sortof the ownership of,
of representingtruth. And, you
know, at one timepainters were the

(38:08):
ones who could paintthe portrait or
landscape and makeit very realistic
and be arepresentative
representation oftruth. And
eventuallyphotography took
over, and notsuggesting that AI
is going to takeover the domain of
truth telling, youknow, maybe quite
the opposite but butI think with traces

(38:32):
of truth, I wantedto talk about those
things. And so So Ithink the idea for
traces that camebefore sort of a
visualrepresentation of
the twins but I hadthis idea that
showing these twotwins together, both
both therelationship between

(38:52):
like thesimilarities of
their faces and theinherent differences
and so it's like agood it just was a
really potent kindof place to start in
this conversationalyou know, what is
truth? And yeah, andthat just manifested
in its in traces oftruth is a very sort

(39:13):
of photographicproject. But you
know, you can veryeasily see that the
cameras around thethe next of these
claims are not real.And so there's kind
of an immediateconnection to the to
the word visuallybut then I think
people you know,very quickly look at
and say whoa, whatis

yeah wow, that's really
interesting and howyou incorporate the
two into you know,visual art and how I
suppose storytellingright and being able
to pass on your,your vision or your
message that youwant to spread to
the world and Ireally liked that. I

(39:54):
really like how, youknow how you say at
the end of the day,it's just a
modality, right?Whether you use is a
pain where they usephotography. It's
the intention behindit that makes it
powerful orimportant. So that
is a love hearingthat, you know, I
find that very, veryinteresting. One
thing that I'minterested on is so

(40:16):
we have othermodality apart from
NFT. To sell ourartwork, right, we
have we're able toprint you have, I
see that you have afew prints their
photo book. And nowit's the digital
collectibles erawhere we it is
possible to sell adigital version of
our art as acollection instead

(40:37):
of as a stock photo.All right. So share
with me a little bitfrom your
perspective, how arethese different,
right and what makesyou excited about
the NFT space? Orhaving your art in
the blockchaincompared to having

(40:58):
it printed or youknow, in a book or
even just sharing iton a social media?

While there's there's a
few really, reallyinteresting prizes
and go down withthis, because I
think there'sthere's something so
important about howphotographers, now
it was anopportunity to
realise somefinancial gain from

(41:25):
work that'spresented in the
digital space, youknow, there was
there, there werethese years where,
you know, asphotographers, we
were putting ourpictures up on, webs
on blog posts orwebsites. And there
was always this fearof like, Well,
somebody's stealingyour work. So, you
know, it's so easyto right click and

(41:46):
save something, thatwe started putting
watermarks on ourpictures, we even
started, like reallydefacing the work so
that somebodywouldn't want it. It
was just such astrange. It was such
a strange actionthat was happening
to him. And wedidn't really know,

(42:06):
like, how do wepresent our work in
this world, youknow, I know, you
know, that we're,there's code written
that doesn't allowyou to right click
and say, but canalways screenshot
those really no wayof mine, we realised
that there was noway of protecting
your worknecessarily. So, you
know, along comesthe blockchain and,

(42:30):
and suddenly, youknow, collectors are
really interested inbeing like the owner
of record of a pieceof digital art. And
I think that's, youknow, such an
amazing step in, youknow, in, in
photographersability to, to

(42:53):
really sell theirwork and to
suddenly, like,think when the
blockchain camearound. I think I
say we, so I'm kindof speaking for a
big group, but But Ishould just really
say, from my ownperspective, I'm not
so worried anymoreabout somebody right
clicking and savingmy piece. You know,

(43:13):
what I do worryabout is like,
somebody scraping alocal election up
open sea, and like,making a you know,
making a completecollection of like,
work with my IP, andit happens, it
happens on 96 in theshade, and not the
basis of trickleit's happening with
read. And writethank you to open
see if you'relistening for being

(43:35):
diligent and gettingthose collections
ticking down veryquickly. So there is
still kind of a, anissue there, you
know, peoplestealing your IP,
but now that we havean opportunity to
look at it in adifferent way and to
and really to, tohave collectors buy

(43:59):
you work and be theorder of record on
the blockchain,which is you know,
immutable. And inmaybe forever, I
don't know, maybe inquantum computing
comes around. Butbut this is a really
interesting thing, Ithink, for
photographers, andfor me, like adding
this work that, forexample, sat in a
box for 1518 yearsbefore it might add

(44:21):
a new life on theblockchain really
made me realise thatlike, even if I were
to lose thosenegatives and lose
those prints, thatit's still exist and
it who knows howlong it's gonna
exist on theblockchain, but I

(44:41):
guess in anotherlife, and it gives
them another placeto live. You know,
in the digitalworld, so I'm super
excited about that.I know there were a
few different thingsthat were built into
that question. Soyeah, so sorry, if
you want to kind ofrepeat where or what
that question was,I'm happy to take

(45:02):
the other parts inthere. But yeah,
that's.

And I think that is that
is a really goodanswer. You know, I
think when youmentioned, you know,
right clicking,we're scared that
people rightclicking, saving it
and sharing itsomewhere else. Well
as once we put itout there as a
record of NFT, we nolonger are afraid as
much. And I thinkthis is the first

(45:26):
time in historywhere an art became
more valuable whenthere are a lot more
people using itright in the
background. And agood example was
when cat smartreally says, you
know, that photo asan open public

(45:47):
licence where anyonecould, you know, she
just got tired ofthat photo being
stolen all the timesyou just go, you
know, what, this isopen for public. And
this is what, youknow, I love what
you say that becausethat is so very
true. I have neverin my photography
life, you know, beany happier than

(46:10):
people try to rightclick and save,
because it actuallyincreases the value
of that particular,you know, art in
that blockchain? So?Yeah, very, very
interesting. How ithas the web three or
the NFT change yourlife? If it has? Or
has it been just oneof those things, one

(46:32):
of those newtechnology like
iPhone that, youknow, just okay,
well, it's just notanother way of
communicating, orhas it as it given
create a new impactand a new way? You
go about pursuingstorytelling and,
you know, sharingyour art to do?

Well, I think, I think it
hasn't not answeredthis too quickly. I,
I'll say from the,from the
storytellingperspective, it
hasn't, hasn'tchanged my ideas of
storytelling, but Ithink you know, what
difference did isthat it opened my

(47:13):
work to a whole new,like World of
collectors. And, youknow, that's just a
miracle, I think ofthe space because,
you know, there werea small number of
people who knewabout the work that
I was doing. Myprimary, you know,
my primary job, Imean, I, I actually

(47:35):
have a job. I runthe fashion
photography,graduate department
at School of VisualArts in New York
City. And, and, youknow, this was still
the main focus of mywork life, I work
with 15 to 20students every year,
on building an artpractice, around the

(47:57):
context, in thecontext of a
fashion, and have awonderful staff and
a wonderful group ofteachers who are,
who all work in theindustry. And we're
all really focusedon helping young
photographers toadvance their
careers and tobecome better at the

(48:17):
craft. So this, youknow, the, this, my
participation in theunity space, has
really just given mean opportunity to
get new collectionsto look at my work.
And it has changedmy life. I mean, you
know, bothfinancially, and,

(48:41):
and sort of, fromthe standpoint of,
you know, when youwhen you well, I'll
back up a littlebit, you know, when
you put out acollection, either
in a gallery or in aT space, it gives
you time to, toreflect on sort of

(49:01):
where you're goingnext. And you know,
because he sort oflike projects has
like a beginning,middle and end sort
of for me, and wellthis is opening up a
whole newconversation. But
once a collection islodged, of course as
an artist thinkingabout what to do
next. The truth isthere's a whole life
to the work and tothe sort of process

(49:25):
that actually juststarts when your
work is launched onthe blockchain so
you know, I now havea discord I now have
you know, collectorsthat you know, I'm
buildingrelationships with.
Everybody wants toknow what's kind of
next. You know, in avery, you know, one
of the one of thenew experiences for

(49:46):
me as a creator isthat now there's a
bunch of collectorswho are also looking
at the value of whatthey bought in they
might be buying itbecause they love
the art they mightbe buying it to flip
and make a quick youKnow, a quick buck,
or they may bebuying it as a long
term investment, butthere's this
relationship that'shappened, a whole

(50:06):
new set ofexpectations. And
so, so while that isgoing on, of course,
as a creator andthinking about, you
know, what to donext. And so this
has led into, into,you know, sort of a

(50:27):
renaissance, I thinkof, of, of
creativity. And so,yeah, I just think
that, but, yeah, thetension that's been
put on photography,the speed at which
this stuff is goingout, is really,
yeah, I think as acreator, it's, I
never it's a time inmy life as a

(50:48):
creator, and it'snever been so
exciting or, andfruitful in terms
of, like production,if you guys probably
produce more work inthe last few years,
and I have, youknow, in the
previous like, 20

Yeah. Wow. You know, I
love hearing that,you know, I think
you're absolutelyright into resolved
Rennaissance I thinkthis is the new era
of art, you know,and it's, there's
just so manypossibilities that
we can that this canboth so very excited
about this, youknow, big

(51:24):
congratulations onthe work that you
have done and thesuccess that you
have gone through, Ithink your words are
absolutelyincredible. And I
love the conceptbehind them as well,
you know, thepurpose behind them,
I see that, youknow, not all
projects in theblockchain have a
purpose or a storybehind it. And I see
that when I gothrough, you know,

(51:45):
the stories and yourcollection, I can
see that, you know,coming through to
so. Yeah, bigcongratulations. But
now, what's next? Ifit's if it's
possible to rebuild?If it's not, it's
okay, as well, youknow, but is there
anything in thehorizon? You just
said that, you know,as soon as there is

(52:07):
a project, finishit, you're you're
this the next thenext exciting things
is thinking aboutthe next bit, but is
there any nextproject in the
horizon at themoment?

Well, I think, I think I
think before I getto what's next,
which I don't knowif there's, I don't
know if there'sgoing to be a, an
acceptable answer tothat. But but, you
know, what I'mfocused on right
now, is this projectrad. That was
launched on June 26.And this is a

(52:41):
collection of 600.Works of synthetic
biology. Some peoplecall it post
photography, somejust call it AI. It
is, you know,essentially AI
assisted imagesthat, that largely
come from training,training the AI on a
dataset on my ownphotography. And

(53:04):
it's actually thetrue sort of
extension of 96degrees on shape,
because the firstcollection in the
series starts outwith a sort of a
some this subcultureof beachgoers and so
there's a collectionwithin rad there's

(53:25):
there's fivedifferent sub
collections, thebeach, Easy Rider,
but wheels, raversand punks, and this
is essentiallyexploration of youth
culture, across anumber of different
sort of, you know,subsections. And
that's, and that'sbeen the focus of
my, you know, mywork really over I

(53:49):
would say the pastyear. But, but that
was just launched.So I'm, I'm pretty,
you know, I'm prettydeeply entrenched
in, you know, in, inshowing that work,
and in getting thatout there, because
it's very much anextension of my
exploration of youthculture. But now we

(54:10):
miss the newstorytelling. Genre
of AI.

Yeah, no, that's, that's
really exciting. Youknow, I love how you
connect the two andthen you know, you
create you youexperimented with a
different way toapproach it. I think
that's, that'sreally cool. That's
really interestingon how that is how
you take thatforward. Well,

(54:38):
Barry, I reallyappreciate having
you here. And youknow, it's been a
great conversation.I know you have a
meeting to run to.So I want to make
sure that we wrap itup before you you
had to rush out. Butbefore we go, I want
to have one lastquestion and this
question I alwaysask every guest in
my podcast, which iswhat would Be the

(55:00):
one advice that youwould either, you
know, give yourself,your younger self
give yourself todayor other people,
whether it's aboutphotography,
lifestyle, whateverit may be, have you
got this this oneadvice that, you
know, you livethrough by that you
is that even theright way of saying
that

(55:20):
you that you live byit right to into a
to add to thethroughout your life
and become yourNorth Star?

I you know, I think I
think what'shappening here, I'm
going to put thissort of in the
context of this newNFT space, I think,
you know, what'shappening in the
conversation for theNFT space and on
Twitter are veryfocused on a
transactional, thetransactional nature
of selling work.And, you know, I

(55:55):
think I wouldimplore young
photographers not tobe sort of
sidetracked by theseconversations in
this transactionalapproach. LFTs I
don't think aregoing away.
Blockchain, I don'tthink it's going
away. Certainlyanytime soon. I
don't think it'sgonna go away in our
lifetime. You haveplenty of time. I

(56:17):
think, you know,focus on your craft,
I think there's areal, when we were
talking about thisearlier, before we
started, it's reallyeasy to misinterpret
what's happening inon the transactional
side of, of NF T's.And, you know,
status, artists thatyou don't know, and

(56:40):
they just showed upon the scene, and
all of a sudden hadsold out their
collection. And, youknow, they bought a
Tesla, you know, orlike, going on
vacations. Andthinking like, oh,
yeah, man, I could,I want to do that,
too, you know, and,yes, if your work is
ready to show, byall means, go for

(57:01):
it, you know, but Ithink there's a lot
of really excitingthings happening in
the NFT space, andthis big third
community of artiststhat are coming
together in a waythat's supportive,
when that's, well,that's helping us
it's even help, it'shelping me grow my,
you know,understanding of my
work and myself.And, you know, my

(57:24):
advice is, takeadvantage of that,
don't worry, whetheryou're at peace, or
whether your piecesare selling as an
angel, not justlike, build your
community, hangingout with artists,
spend all day andall night with
artists, you know,be a part of a
community that willthat will help you
like focus on yourcraft more than

(57:44):
anything. And, youknow, If a time
comes that, like,you're able to sell
them work, and, youknow, buy a new
camera, or, youknow, a best case
scenario, make aliving, and, you
know, and all ofthat, that's
wonderful, but likethese things,
generally take time.So give yourself
time Don't you know,it doesn't have to
happen overnight.So, yeah, I think

(58:08):
that's, I thinkthat's the best
advice that I cangive you.

That is amazing. I love
that advice. Verygood. You know, I
feel like a lot ofthis conversation
around, you know, westarted photography
or in art inartists, in most
cases, want tobecome an artist,
because they lovewhat they do, right?
I don't know, ifthere is any artists
that have startedbecoming an artist,

(58:33):
because they feellike they can make a
lot of money fromit, I guess. It's
always because theyfell in love with
it. It's not like,you know, an
investment bankingor something like
that. But I feellike as we grow into
this path of, youknow, pursuing that
flow, doing more ofour being able to do

(58:56):
more of what we'dlove by having more
money, sometimes weget distracted and
even lost ourpurpose on why we
started our, youknow, photography or
becoming an artistin the first place.
So, I love what yousaid, there. I
totally resonatewith that, you know,
we know howimportant money is,

(59:17):
but if it means thatyou're gonna lose
your passion, yourlove for your art,
then is it reallyworth it? Right, so,
thanks for theadvice. I think
that's a really,really good advice
to have.

Yeah, definitely. You
know, when I was ayoung artist, there
was no like, sort ofinterconnected
community like thereis now on Twitter
and social andaround around art
practice. So, youknow, take advantage
of that. Yep. Be amember of that
community. Getbetter at your
craft, talk aboutyour craft night and

(59:51):
day. You know, getpeople to look at
your work and helpyou critique,
critique otherpeople's work where
the language and getto know yourself
Letter through thatwhole process, and
you know, that willhelp you work. And
if there's somefinancial gain at
the end of, youknow, at the end of
that road, that'sicing on the cake.
But I think, like,sometimes as

(01:00:14):
artists, we, wethink that we have
the right to somekind of financial
success. And, youknow, the truth is,
like, if you're areal artist, you're
doing that so youcan live, you know,
you're doing thatbecause you're
possessed by this,you know, need to
create, and I think,you know, I think

(01:00:36):
young artists arereally tapping into
that energy and thatbuyer and, you know,
that's, that's,that's the most
rewarding part I cango of being an
artist.

Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt (01:00:50):
100% Well, thanks for all
Barry. You know,it's been really,
really niceconversation, love
hearing yourjourney, your story,
you know, over pastthree decades, that
got you to where youare today. You know
that most people seeit as an overnight
success, probably,who have come across
you recently.

Barry Sutton (01:01:11):
But you know, this
doesn't happenovernight.

It's awesome. All right.
So, you know, forthose of you for the
audience who want toconnect with you
find more about yourwork, what is the
best way to connectwith you? I know I'm
gonna put it all inthe in the notes
anyway. But let usknow what is the
best way to connectand get to know you
better?

Oh, sure. Thanks for
asking them. Yeah,you can drink with
me on Twitter. BarrySutton is on my
Twitter handle. Ifyou get to Twitter,
there's also a linkto my Discord
popular with a lotof great artists are
in the discord. Youcan connect with and
collectors poppingin and out and done.

(01:01:54):
Yeah, yeah, we couldfind it. And you
know, I'm prettyresponsive on
Twitter right now. Idon't have enough
followers that, thatI'm ignoring my DM.
So, yeah, just jumpin and, and be a
part of thecommunity? Ritual?

antastic? Yeah, look, I'm one
of the things that Ilove about the web
three, or the NFTspace is that, you
know, we could be atotal stranger. And
then you know, like,just like this, we
sit on that podcast,get to know each
other. Well, let usin the old days, it
was a lot moredifficult. You know,
I find, even docollaborate, work
with each other, youknow, reach out each

(01:02:30):
other is ask foradvice, just like
you said, you know,like, Twitter is
just incredible,like people really
responsive reallyrespond. Doesn't
matter how manyfollowers they have,
you know, it's beena lot. It's been a
really refreshingplace to be. So I
really appreciateyou, you know, we're
checking your DMcoming back to me

(01:02:53):
after you know, intwo days, in a few
days, we'rerecording this
podcast. Veryexcited to get your
words. Your storiesout there and your
and as well as yourwork. Well, thanks a
lot, Barry for beingin this in this
podcast. It's been agreat conversation.

Thank you so much. Thank
you so much for theopportunity to talk
to you saga firstabout about to work.
I really appreciateyou reaching out and
jump. Yeah, greatconversation.

antastic. Well, we can do is,
thanks a lot fortuning in. And make
sure that you checkout what the project
was that Barry hasput together. It's
absolutelyincredible, bro,
both from hisphotography as well
as the AI part ofit. And that's just
goes to show howthey both can work

(01:03:46):
next to each otherif we decide to do
so. So I thinkthere's a lot of
excitement with thetechnology that's
happening in thisworld with AI with
the web three withthe blockchain. And
when we use it toour advantage, I
think that's wherewe can get the most
out of it. Well,thanks a lot for
tuning in. Make sureyou hit the

(01:04:07):
subscribe button ifyou haven't already
done so. Go toTwitter, follow
Barry if you haven'tdone so and I'll see
you guys next week.

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Ep 58 - How Barry Sutton Sold Out One Of A Kind AI & Photography NFT Collection

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep 58 - How Barry Sutton Sold Out One Of A Kind AI & Photography NFT Collection