June 22, 2024 • 24 mins
Can controversial officiating truly alter the course of a game? Join us on this week's episode of the Backseat Critics as we reexamine the dramatic fourth quarter of the 2002 Western Conference Finals Game Six. We break down every contentious call, from the illegal screen to the series of questionable fouls, and debate their impact on the outcome. Our discussion also delves into the monumental influence of Shaquille O'Neal, comparing his legacy to contemporary legends like Steph Curry and Steve Nash, and exploring Nash's remarkable career, especially his synergy with Dirk Nowitzki.
Shifting gears, we scrutinize the unique challenges of refereeing in playoff basketball. The increased physicality and altered standards of officiating come under the microscope as we analyze incidents like Scott Pollard's controversial block attempt against Shaq and Kobe Bryant's infamous flying elbow. We question the fairness and intent of these moments, offering balanced perspectives on how such decisions shape the game. Tune in for heated debates, insightful analysis, and a deep dive into the intricacies of playoff basketball that every fan will appreciate!
Hosted by Andrew and RJ, this Portland-based movie review podcast blends sharp takes, nostalgic dives, and unfiltered banter. Whether you're a cinephile or just here for the chaos, we've got movies covered — one awkward laugh at a time. Follow and subscribe for weekly episodes on cult classics, overlooked gems, and everything in between.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
today we're talking about 2002's western conference
finals.
Oh game six.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
We're not just diving in for where we left off with
rock, or is this a two-parter?
This is a two-part oh butreleases one, one whole,
cohesive, okay episode so thisis part two of the two-parter
this is oh okay, sorry, r RJ'swith the program now.
Well, welcome back to theBackseat Critics.
(00:34):
My name is RJ, my name isAndrew.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
This is a podcast where we review things that you
should or should not steer clearof, and, today, that you should
or should not steer clear ofand today you know what I got a
feeling in the air Reaching intothe back.
I got the feeling in the air.
My hair on the back of my neck,my like six foot neck, is like
standing on end and I'm like theNBA finals are coming up and
(00:59):
they're coming up hot.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Oh, they're already happening by the time that this
is released, and I know.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I know.
I know deep down in my heartthat the Chicago Hornets are
going to take this win.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
No, it's Mavericks and Celtics right now.
So the question is do you wantto root for Tay?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
God bless you.
Seattle Dolphins, the SeattleDolphins, huh.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Okay, we're really getting into it now.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
For those who don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Andrew doesn't know basketball.
This is actually one of hisfirst basketball, not his first
not his very first.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
No, definitely not my first viewing of a basketball
game Absolutely not A goodunderstanding or a good attempt
at understanding it.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I think One of your first good attempts Not your
very first attempt, but yourvery good first attempt at it
this was an eye-opener.
This is an eye-opener to howthe game should not be called
sometimes.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah, sorry, I got a little Tim Donaghy in my.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
A little Tim Donaghy Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Anyways, where would you like to jump off on this?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Let's just go right into it.
So we're going to pick offspecifically in the fourth
quarter.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
That's where we're going to kick off.
Okay, that's where we watch,where most of the calls were
controversial that they like tosay during that time period, and
the first call, the first thingthat we see, I'm going to be
completely honest here.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, uh, let's discuss more of the actions.
Let's drop the names.
I'm not going to know the namesokay, first call.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Uh, you see a call of a guy who gets called for an
illegal scream yeah, yeah.
Thoughts on that.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Out of the other calls that we saw that didn't
feel like the worst.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
No, I don't feel like that was the worst either it
was.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So tame it was, you can kind of make the argument.
You can make the argumenteither way and that's why I'm
saying it's tame.
There's ones later on thatdefinitely, as someone who
doesn't watch basketball likeyou know, you you know, so
that's bad the next call is uh,you said no names, but I mean
(03:16):
you can, you can drop names.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Shack, okay, shack, um.
Who's shack?
Probably one of the greatestbasketball players of all time.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
What.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, and he is.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Because of him.
Okay, let's back up here.
Let's beep beep, beep.
Back up that truck.
What do you mean?
Shaq is the best basketballplayer of all time.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
No, no, no, no, no.
Do not gaslight me here, sir.
I said he is one of the best ofall time.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Beep, beep, beep.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
You said best.
I said one of the best Review.
The footage Review, the audioAll right.
One of the best of all time allright.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So why do you think Steph Curry is the best
basketball player of all time?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I have never said that either.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
That's a back-ass light too why was he the best
point guard of all time?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
of all time.
I might agree with thatstatement, actually, and he's
got good takes but.
But I have a hotter take forthat one but anyways, uh shack,
go for it I think he a hottertake for that.
Yeah, steve nash.
Oh, not a lot of people wouldsay that.
It's like 10 years earlier,mm-hmm Okay, when Steve Nash was
(04:51):
in his prime.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
I just think he was.
Are you saying that because hekind of like paved the way, kind
of thing?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
No, not at all.
I just think he there was apoint where he accounted for
like 80 to 90 points for histeam, Dang.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
That's insane.
Every night he accounted for, Ithink, about 50 points for his
team almost Okay.
So I just think he was just agreat team player In his prime.
Nash was great.
It's sad that him and Dirkcouldn't have a longer run
(05:29):
together.
Jerk jeter, uh, dirk, dirknowinski so close, so close.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Not the yankee clipper here all right, uh,
second call shack check.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yes, uh, scott pollard goes straight up and
down trying to block a shot orwhat people think was straight
up and down.
At the time he put both hishands up and just kind of jumped
up right.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
But if you look closely, Shaq throws that right
at his face right.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
No, he does a little pelvic, a little bump bump.
You know bump bump, his pelvicregion does go forward compared
to his hands.
So in reality it is a foul.
But we're playing playoffbasketball and it's ticky, tacky
foul and usually we don't getthose types of calls in playoff
basketball so really so is.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Uh, is playoff basketball a little bit looser?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
than like just normal .
A little bit more physical,gotcha, more physical
interesting yep, so we saw a lotof that.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
We saw a lot of that.
What so was was the next call,the one where he makes contact
with the guy's face, not not thepunch, oh, you're talking about
the kobe bryant flying elbowyeah, no, we're saving that one.
No, where he like threw theball and like hit the guy I
don't remember this one.
He was like he's going I forgetif he was going up or
(06:48):
rebounding the ball and there'ssomebody right there and he
threw it and like it juststraight on hit them when
there's like a clear shot aroundthem.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
I mean I can.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
I remember that being maybe I'm conflating that like.
Correct me fact checkers.
He did the off the heezy I just.
I remember that being Maybe.
I'm conflating that, correct mefact checkers.
You did the off the heezy.
I just remember that I rememberthat being called and being
like.
That's weird.
I could see that being a oops.
I made a bad throw.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
You know, what I kind of wonder too in these games is
I mean, I used to refbasketball, right Brag.
Sometimes I'd run and I'd get alittle winded and I would sound
my whistle from having thewhistle in my mouth and
accidentally blow.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
You got to pretend like you saw something.
Got to pretend like you sawsomething at that point.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I kind of wonder if that happens in this game maybe.
Yeah, how much happens in theNBA?
That's a good question.
I mean, you know, in my careera couple of times I was honest
and say oh sorry, breathed alittle hard ball on the side,
get the game going again.
Other times I was just likethat guy fouled him.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
No, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
What's the ratio?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
here.
What's the ratio from beinghonest to yeah, I'd say honesty
was probably about 70% of thetime, 30% of the time making a
weird call.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
All right audience.
Flip those numbers.
He's lying.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
I'm not lying, but I'll tell you what.
Usually, when that 30% came in,is because some kid pissed me
off in that game.
We're just going to use aroundsomebody the funny thing is
you're talking aboutpreschoolers.
Oh no, I'm talking about atleast junior high.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Man way to kill that joke you just killed that
Sometime high school.
You just walk that joke up tothe curb and just poof, no, so,
actually killed.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
You just killed that sometime high school.
You just walk that joke up tothe curb and just no so actually
I I reffed.
I think it was second and thirdgraders one time, or no.
First and second graders okay,they don't call anything.
I was told not to call anythingexcept like out of bounds,
maybe a vicious foul.
I was like okay.
So so I refed with at the timethe person that was in charge of
reffing Do first, secondgraders?
Speaker 1 (09:09):
do they play dirty?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
They started to.
So I refed with the guy who wasin charge of reffing one game.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I love this.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Everything went okay.
The next game, though, theyrealized we're not calling
anything, and they startedplaying dirty, so much so that
the guy that was in charge ofanother league came onto the
court and started yelling at me,and I was just like, hey, man,
(09:39):
this is what I was told.
Let's just say, technicals flewin.
First and second graders Wow,third.
First and second.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Okay, okay, I thought you said first, second, third
graders.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
No, I don't think it was third graders.
I think it was first and secondgraders.
I think it's third, fourth, soit was first, second graders.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, so technicals flew.
Wow, yeah, good, good historythere what came after this?
Speaker 1 (10:05):
uh, the shack.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Um, I think there was some cheesy fouls on vladdy
devos, if I remember and Idisagree with this one where he
dove for the ball and theycalled it on him because he
grabbed the ball.
There's a foul before that playthat made um.
I believe it was robert orithat fell to the ground and he
had the ball and v a foul beforethat play that made um.
I believe it was robert thatfell to the ground and he had
the ball in vade diva's doughfor the ball too, and they
called it on vade and I was justlike that.
(10:30):
That one was was bad.
That was a bad call.
I don't think there was anycall for vade.
I think it was the foul beforethat that should have been
called.
If we're going to call anything, okay, but in reality they were
paving the way for Shaq in thisgame basically To kind of
become the next kind of MVP typeguy.
(10:50):
No, I mean Shaq was already anMVP type player in this game or
in this series.
I think that they were pavingthe way for Shaq to not have any
competition, so he could justdominate the rest of the game
gotcha even, even with Kobe outthere even with Kobe out there,
because I in reality you had Ibelieve it's his name was Tony
(11:12):
Massenburg or something like Ibelieve that was the name um,
one of those bench players thatjust sit there that maybe
doesn't play, maybe gets likefive minutes, 10 minutes a game,
maybe, maybe, and they had toput him on shack to try to stop
shack because all their big menwere getting fouled out in this
(11:33):
game that's insane or getting infoul trouble, and they try to
put chris weber on him for alittle bit.
Chris weber won the bigger bigman, but he started getting foul
trouble and so they're like weactually need chris weber on the
court, so we can't necessarilyallow him to continue.
At what point?
Speaker 1 (11:47):
does your?
Are you not able to playbecause all your players are
being fouled out?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
oh, um, you can actually play with one player on
the court.
That has happened.
You can play with Just one.
Yeah, you can play with one.
You can play with two.
You can play with three.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
That's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
You take a technical and you play After a player
fouls out six fouls and youdon't have another player to
come in off the bench.
You take a technical and thencontinue to play.
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
What's the next foul?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I think we're just going to go into the Kobe Bryant
one.
Oh, the punch, the punch.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
The punch.
This dude went super sand.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, I think that would be probably.
There's other little fouls inhere, but that was definitely
the one that's gonna be mostmemorable in all of this, like I
saw rocky and was like, yeah,I'm gonna do that straight up.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Just texas dude right , mike bibby mike bibby right
across the face.
Mike was obviously mad, bloodynose.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah yeah, Mike Bibby .
He's a great player, too Goodplayer, but it was kind of
shocking to see that as a ref.
And then just you don't callthat.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Yeah, it was right, in front of the ref too.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
There's no way as a ref, there's two refs.
I think it was clear as day.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah too, there's no way you as refs, like there's
two refs.
It was clear as day, yeah, thathe just and and my mike bibby's
on the side, dabbing his facelike an old white jersey.
You can see from the cameraslike there's blood coming away.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I I kind of wonder there's there's certain points
in basketball where you kind ofknow like, okay, these refs
aren't calling this, let's getdirty you know, yeah, so why
didn't Bibby's team?
Get dirty, yeah, becausethey're getting the calls out
against them, and so that kindof makes you wonder, okay, what
the heck If I'm Bibby I wouldhave.
(13:56):
I don't know, I don't know, Idon't know.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
In today's NBA.
I don't know, in today's nba.
I don't know how that would fly, but we're gonna go to a little
classic backseat criticssegment here.
Oh, what are we gonna go?
Speaker 2 (14:11):
with if you could replace any player with another
player in this game.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, all right am I, you can go, you can go, you can
go fictional if you want.
You can say like Bugs Bunny forall I care.
Okay, we're just opening thisup because I don't know my
basketball players.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
I'm going to pull this back just a little bit.
I'm going to pull this backjust a little bit.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I could throw out, like Jordan or LeBron, but
obviously everyone knowsLeBron's better, so why wouldn't
I pick him?
Of course, we'd always pick thelebron always pick lebron I.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I really want to go back, though, really quick, I'm
gonna pull it back a hot secondhere.
Instead of who to replace, whowould we replace on the kings so
that they would win the game?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
oh, you know what I had?
I had such a great answer formine and then you just like, nix
that, nix that.
Okay, because I'll be honest.
I was going to say let'sreplace tim donaghy with my man
stevie, because he would seethese vows coming and call them.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Have you heard?
People think that Stevie Wonderis actually not blind.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
No.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
There's theories out there about things about it.
People are wild, even with Shaq.
Shaq's like this guy's notblind, because Shaq got into an
elevator one time, didn't say aword or anything.
Stevie Wonder just knew it wasShaq and he was just like how
does he know?
It's me?
So, um, so you're saying steviewonder for?
(15:49):
tim, I'm saying stevie wonderbecause he can make, he can see
those calls and he can makethose calls a lot better okay, I
hmm, if I'm gonna try toreplace it with a, just a
basketball movie character,that's what I'm gonna try to do,
I'm gonna go with.
(16:10):
You know, my brain, my brain,keeps going back to jesus
shuttleworth, okay, uh, from hegot game, okay, and so I'm I'll
just go with that.
That's fair.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Played by ray allen but you said for just the kings,
just the kings, what?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
I'll replace doug christie with who with jesus
shuttleworth.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I guess the same position oh man, I wish I knew
with some basketball players ormovies um okay, wait, wait,
here's a good question for you.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Actually, let's go with this.
Ready for this one who will bewith foghorn leghorn if you had
to choose coaches for each team.
Who's coaching?
Who's coaching?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
who's?
Speaker 2 (16:57):
coaching doesn't even be in.
You know what can't be a realcoach?
It's got to be an actor a movieactor.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
It's gotta be like a movie actor, wait, wait.
So if I say bill murray, or amI saying, like what is his name?
Peter vinkman from fromghostbusters?
Which one is it, the characteror the actor?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
let's go with the characters.
Okay, let's go with thecharacters.
It can't be from a sports movieokay, we're taking out all the
sports movie characters.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Whoo yep, cool.
I got slap shots, the hustlerand space jam out of my head,
taking all that out.
What you got, oh man, um, forthe coaches, for the coaches,
you know what?
Why don't you go first?
You're going to put it back onme.
I am.
(17:46):
I want some time to think aboutthis, okay.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I want.
I want Vince Vaughn fromRunning Crashers, no, from the
internship.
Okay, I want him in there.
Owen Wilson will be hisassistant coach and he can be a
Lakers coach.
I'm just going to say thatright now.
He'll be the Lakers coach, okay.
On the other side, who I wantis Shrek.
(18:13):
Shout out to our next episodeand Donkey Shout out to our next
episode, don't get shout out toour next episode and let's see,
let's see who comes out I'mgonna be honest, shrek, he's
fighting dirty, he's fightingdirty, all right, who do you?
Speaker 1 (18:32):
let's go, uh, let's go um man, you know what I'm
going?
I'm going Chunk.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
From the.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Goonies no, no, no, I'm going a little bit darker
than that.
Okay.
Anthony Hopkins as HannibalLecter Okay.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
I'm going to really kill the opponent.
Yeah, more and.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
And that is going to be the Lakers.
Okay, bloodsuckers, so kind offits.
Who am I going to pick as?
What's the other team?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Sacramento.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Kings, sacramento, sacramento.
Okay, my man Bo Rat.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Pee-wee Herman, pee-wee Herman for Sacramento
Kings.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Rest in peace.
Yeah.
Oh wow, that's a pair up.
You're never not going to beentertained, and I don't think
either one of them would knowhow to play basketball.
That is the best pick.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
You know what I think ?
Fight me on that.
Pee-wee Herman would luck hisway into it.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Based off I think, fight me on that Pee.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Wee Herman would luck his way into it Based off his
movies he'd luck his way into it.
Go har har whatever his voice is, yeah, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra,
ra, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra,ra, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra,
ra, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra ra.
That'd be kind of a fun matchup, I guess.
Final thoughts Going back onthis game, I don't think it was
(20:12):
as poorly reffed as I rememberback in the day, because growing
up I was rooting for the Lakers, but I do think that it was
definitely still a poorly reffedgame.
I don't think it is as goingback.
It's not as atrocious.
I did like seeing the oldbasketball game itself.
It feels different.
It's got a different vibe.
It does, it does.
(20:33):
It felt more energetic.
It was a better atmosphere inmy opinion, compared to what you
get nowadays, and morecompetitive.
You can see there's a lot morecompetitiveness in the game.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
It felt like more drive, like just just in the way
they played yeah, there wasdefinitely more.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
You got more out of it as a viewer, for sure.
Yeah, even the commentary, Ifelt like you got more out of it
and because of that, the musicdude we didn't even touch the
music the music.
Have you ever seen that guylike that?
Sorry, I had some listeners.
Have you seen that guy like in,like he was at a concert one
(21:14):
time and he just goes like this,like with his fingers.
You can't see, I know, but I'mjust like flicking my wrist back
forth, right now, right andhe's doing that and he goes over
to the piano and, like people,start playing it and he goes no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,no no no, yeah, it's a guy he
does.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Oh, it's awesome um music, best of all there's music
is whoever wrote that went toohard.
There's talks about bringingthat back.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Good, there's talks about bringing it back, but, um,
good, I mean, I I'd give itbased off a basketball.
Watching a nine a nine, justbecause it's it gets your blood
pumping, um, just, but not froma movie standpoint, from
basketball standpoint yeah, uh,so my final thoughts, uh, I, I
(21:58):
think this is okay for reallyany age to watch you should.
You should definitely show kidsto teach in basketball actually
this is what you don't do kids.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Um yeah, like I, I don't think there's really any
age restrictions that we can puton this.
Um, yeah, uh, you can show achild this.
You could show a 99.
Oh, granted, if a 99 year oldbasketball fan saw this, they
might die.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Um just your they might die.
It's just your face they mightdie.
Or if you're even more sincere,like you're smiling, they might
die.
Went away from the sincerity ofyour face, but it's okay that
they're going to die.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
No, your sincerity about it.
So, as a non-basketball watcher, someone who's trying to get
into just kind of following thispart, I'm going to give it.
I'm going to give it an A.
I'm going to give it an A.
That's a solid score.
It was not nearly as egregiousas I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah, going back and looking at it not as much,
nearly as egregious as I thoughtit was going to be.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, Going back and looking at it not as much, the
punch, the screen and maybe oneother thing were kind of what I
could see.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
The dive on the floor .
Yeah, the dive on the floor wasbad.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
There was a lot of questionable calls that I could
see argued.
Either way, if this is aworst-called game, they're doing
a pretty good job at callinggames.
Yeah, um, granted, what theymissed here was was bad.
It just wasn't as bad as Ithought.
Totally entertaining, yeah,totally entertaining.
(23:36):
Uh, the players, fantastic fun.
Uh, it's from an era from whenI was growing up, from when you
were growing up, from when youwere growing up.
Oh, yeah, I watched it live.
I remember, yeah, it's supernostalgic, rooting.
I don't know it scratched thatitch.
I don't have a lot of otherbasketball games to kind of base
this off of.
I'm going to Nate.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Solid score.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah, would watch again.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Two solid teams.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Alright, if you want to find us, if you want to
listen to more of our stuff weusually review movies you can
listen to our stuff wherever youget podcasts, whether that's
Spotify, whether that's nolonger Google Music, but it's
YouTube Music or Apple Podcastsor Pocket Casts or Pandora.
(24:27):
For you, five listeners.
We appreciate you.
We appreciate you.
You can just look us up at theBackseat Critics.
We're also on YouTube.
No videos there yet, but we'reworking on it and you know until
next time.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
We out.
today we're talking about 2002's western conference
finals.
Oh game six.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
We're not just diving in for where we left off with
rock, or is this a two-parter?
This is a two-part oh butreleases one, one whole,
cohesive, okay episode so thisis part two of the two-parter
this is oh okay, sorry, r RJ'swith the program now.
Well, welcome back to theBackseat Critics.
(00:34):
My name is RJ, my name isAndrew.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
This is a podcast where we review things that you
should or should not steer clearof, and, today, that you should
or should not steer clear ofand today you know what I got a
feeling in the air Reaching intothe back.
I got the feeling in the air.
My hair on the back of my neck,my like six foot neck, is like
standing on end and I'm like theNBA finals are coming up and
(00:59):
they're coming up hot.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Oh, they're already happening by the time that this
is released, and I know.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I know.
I know deep down in my heartthat the Chicago Hornets are
going to take this win.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
No, it's Mavericks and Celtics right now.
So the question is do you wantto root for Tay?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
God bless you.
Seattle Dolphins, the SeattleDolphins, huh.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Okay, we're really getting into it now.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
For those who don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Andrew doesn't know basketball.
This is actually one of hisfirst basketball, not his first
not his very first.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
No, definitely not my first viewing of a basketball
game Absolutely not A goodunderstanding or a good attempt
at understanding it.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I think One of your first good attempts Not your
very first attempt, but yourvery good first attempt at it
this was an eye-opener.
This is an eye-opener to howthe game should not be called
sometimes.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah, sorry, I got a little Tim Donaghy in my.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
A little Tim Donaghy Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Anyways, where would you like to jump off on this?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Let's just go right into it.
So we're going to pick offspecifically in the fourth
quarter.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
That's where we're going to kick off.
Okay, that's where we watch,where most of the calls were
controversial that they like tosay during that time period, and
the first call, the first thingthat we see, I'm going to be
completely honest here.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, uh, let's discuss more of the actions.
Let's drop the names.
I'm not going to know the namesokay, first call.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Uh, you see a call of a guy who gets called for an
illegal scream yeah, yeah.
Thoughts on that.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Out of the other calls that we saw that didn't
feel like the worst.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
No, I don't feel like that was the worst either it
was.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So tame it was, you can kind of make the argument.
You can make the argumenteither way and that's why I'm
saying it's tame.
There's ones later on thatdefinitely, as someone who
doesn't watch basketball likeyou know, you you know, so
that's bad the next call is uh,you said no names, but I mean
(03:16):
you can, you can drop names.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Shack, okay, shack, um.
Who's shack?
Probably one of the greatestbasketball players of all time.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
What.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, and he is.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Because of him.
Okay, let's back up here.
Let's beep beep, beep.
Back up that truck.
What do you mean?
Shaq is the best basketballplayer of all time.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
No, no, no, no, no.
Do not gaslight me here, sir.
I said he is one of the best ofall time.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Beep, beep, beep.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
You said best.
I said one of the best Review.
The footage Review, the audioAll right.
One of the best of all time allright.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So why do you think Steph Curry is the best
basketball player of all time?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I have never said that either.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
That's a back-ass light too why was he the best
point guard of all time?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
of all time.
I might agree with thatstatement, actually, and he's
got good takes but.
But I have a hotter take forthat one but anyways, uh shack,
go for it I think he a hottertake for that.
Yeah, steve nash.
Oh, not a lot of people wouldsay that.
It's like 10 years earlier,mm-hmm Okay, when Steve Nash was
(04:51):
in his prime.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
I just think he was.
Are you saying that because hekind of like paved the way, kind
of thing?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
No, not at all.
I just think he there was apoint where he accounted for
like 80 to 90 points for histeam, Dang.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
That's insane.
Every night he accounted for, Ithink, about 50 points for his
team almost Okay.
So I just think he was just agreat team player In his prime.
Nash was great.
It's sad that him and Dirkcouldn't have a longer run
(05:29):
together.
Jerk jeter, uh, dirk, dirknowinski so close, so close.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Not the yankee clipper here all right, uh,
second call shack check.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yes, uh, scott pollard goes straight up and
down trying to block a shot orwhat people think was straight
up and down.
At the time he put both hishands up and just kind of jumped
up right.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
But if you look closely, Shaq throws that right
at his face right.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
No, he does a little pelvic, a little bump bump.
You know bump bump, his pelvicregion does go forward compared
to his hands.
So in reality it is a foul.
But we're playing playoffbasketball and it's ticky, tacky
foul and usually we don't getthose types of calls in playoff
basketball so really so is.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Uh, is playoff basketball a little bit looser?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
than like just normal .
A little bit more physical,gotcha, more physical
interesting yep, so we saw a lotof that.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
We saw a lot of that.
What so was was the next call,the one where he makes contact
with the guy's face, not not thepunch, oh, you're talking about
the kobe bryant flying elbowyeah, no, we're saving that one.
No, where he like threw theball and like hit the guy I
don't remember this one.
He was like he's going I forgetif he was going up or
(06:48):
rebounding the ball and there'ssomebody right there and he
threw it and like it juststraight on hit them when
there's like a clear shot aroundthem.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
I mean I can.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
I remember that being maybe I'm conflating that like.
Correct me fact checkers.
He did the off the heezy I just.
I remember that being Maybe.
I'm conflating that, correct mefact checkers.
You did the off the heezy.
I just remember that I rememberthat being called and being
like.
That's weird.
I could see that being a oops.
I made a bad throw.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
You know, what I kind of wonder too in these games is
I mean, I used to refbasketball, right Brag.
Sometimes I'd run and I'd get alittle winded and I would sound
my whistle from having thewhistle in my mouth and
accidentally blow.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
You got to pretend like you saw something.
Got to pretend like you sawsomething at that point.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I kind of wonder if that happens in this game maybe.
Yeah, how much happens in theNBA?
That's a good question.
I mean, you know, in my careera couple of times I was honest
and say oh sorry, breathed alittle hard ball on the side,
get the game going again.
Other times I was just likethat guy fouled him.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
No, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
What's the ratio?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
here.
What's the ratio from beinghonest to yeah, I'd say honesty
was probably about 70% of thetime, 30% of the time making a
weird call.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
All right audience.
Flip those numbers.
He's lying.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
I'm not lying, but I'll tell you what.
Usually, when that 30% came in,is because some kid pissed me
off in that game.
We're just going to use aroundsomebody the funny thing is
you're talking aboutpreschoolers.
Oh no, I'm talking about atleast junior high.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Man way to kill that joke you just killed that
Sometime high school.
You just walk that joke up tothe curb and just poof, no, so,
actually killed.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
You just killed that sometime high school.
You just walk that joke up tothe curb and just no so actually
I I reffed.
I think it was second and thirdgraders one time, or no.
First and second graders okay,they don't call anything.
I was told not to call anythingexcept like out of bounds,
maybe a vicious foul.
I was like okay.
So so I refed with at the timethe person that was in charge of
reffing Do first, secondgraders?
Speaker 1 (09:09):
do they play dirty?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
They started to.
So I refed with the guy who wasin charge of reffing one game.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I love this.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Everything went okay.
The next game, though, theyrealized we're not calling
anything, and they startedplaying dirty, so much so that
the guy that was in charge ofanother league came onto the
court and started yelling at me,and I was just like, hey, man,
(09:39):
this is what I was told.
Let's just say, technicals flewin.
First and second graders Wow,third.
First and second.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Okay, okay, I thought you said first, second, third
graders.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
No, I don't think it was third graders.
I think it was first and secondgraders.
I think it's third, fourth, soit was first, second graders.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, so technicals flew.
Wow, yeah, good, good historythere what came after this?
Speaker 1 (10:05):
uh, the shack.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Um, I think there was some cheesy fouls on vladdy
devos, if I remember and Idisagree with this one where he
dove for the ball and theycalled it on him because he
grabbed the ball.
There's a foul before that playthat made um.
I believe it was robert orithat fell to the ground and he
had the ball and v a foul beforethat play that made um.
I believe it was robert thatfell to the ground and he had
the ball in vade diva's doughfor the ball too, and they
called it on vade and I was justlike that.
(10:30):
That one was was bad.
That was a bad call.
I don't think there was anycall for vade.
I think it was the foul beforethat that should have been
called.
If we're going to call anything, okay, but in reality they were
paving the way for Shaq in thisgame basically To kind of
become the next kind of MVP typeguy.
(10:50):
No, I mean Shaq was already anMVP type player in this game or
in this series.
I think that they were pavingthe way for Shaq to not have any
competition, so he could justdominate the rest of the game
gotcha even, even with Kobe outthere even with Kobe out there,
because I in reality you had Ibelieve it's his name was Tony
(11:12):
Massenburg or something like Ibelieve that was the name um,
one of those bench players thatjust sit there that maybe
doesn't play, maybe gets likefive minutes, 10 minutes a game,
maybe, maybe, and they had toput him on shack to try to stop
shack because all their big menwere getting fouled out in this
(11:33):
game that's insane or getting infoul trouble, and they try to
put chris weber on him for alittle bit.
Chris weber won the bigger bigman, but he started getting foul
trouble and so they're like weactually need chris weber on the
court, so we can't necessarilyallow him to continue.
At what point?
Speaker 1 (11:47):
does your?
Are you not able to playbecause all your players are
being fouled out?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
oh, um, you can actually play with one player on
the court.
That has happened.
You can play with Just one.
Yeah, you can play with one.
You can play with two.
You can play with three.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
That's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
You take a technical and you play After a player
fouls out six fouls and youdon't have another player to
come in off the bench.
You take a technical and thencontinue to play.
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
What's the next foul?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I think we're just going to go into the Kobe Bryant
one.
Oh, the punch, the punch.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
The punch.
This dude went super sand.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, I think that would be probably.
There's other little fouls inhere, but that was definitely
the one that's gonna be mostmemorable in all of this, like I
saw rocky and was like, yeah,I'm gonna do that straight up.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Just texas dude right , mike bibby mike bibby right
across the face.
Mike was obviously mad, bloodynose.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah yeah, Mike Bibby .
He's a great player, too Goodplayer, but it was kind of
shocking to see that as a ref.
And then just you don't callthat.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Yeah, it was right, in front of the ref too.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
There's no way as a ref, there's two refs.
I think it was clear as day.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah too, there's no way you as refs, like there's
two refs.
It was clear as day, yeah, thathe just and and my mike bibby's
on the side, dabbing his facelike an old white jersey.
You can see from the cameraslike there's blood coming away.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I I kind of wonder there's there's certain points
in basketball where you kind ofknow like, okay, these refs
aren't calling this, let's getdirty you know, yeah, so why
didn't Bibby's team?
Get dirty, yeah, becausethey're getting the calls out
against them, and so that kindof makes you wonder, okay, what
the heck If I'm Bibby I wouldhave.
(13:56):
I don't know, I don't know, Idon't know.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
In today's NBA.
I don't know, in today's nba.
I don't know how that would fly, but we're gonna go to a little
classic backseat criticssegment here.
Oh, what are we gonna go?
Speaker 2 (14:11):
with if you could replace any player with another
player in this game.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, all right am I, you can go, you can go, you can
go fictional if you want.
You can say like Bugs Bunny forall I care.
Okay, we're just opening thisup because I don't know my
basketball players.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
I'm going to pull this back just a little bit.
I'm going to pull this backjust a little bit.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I could throw out, like Jordan or LeBron, but
obviously everyone knowsLeBron's better, so why wouldn't
I pick him?
Of course, we'd always pick thelebron always pick lebron I.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I really want to go back, though, really quick, I'm
gonna pull it back a hot secondhere.
Instead of who to replace, whowould we replace on the kings so
that they would win the game?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
oh, you know what I had?
I had such a great answer formine and then you just like, nix
that, nix that.
Okay, because I'll be honest.
I was going to say let'sreplace tim donaghy with my man
stevie, because he would seethese vows coming and call them.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Have you heard?
People think that Stevie Wonderis actually not blind.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
No.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
There's theories out there about things about it.
People are wild, even with Shaq.
Shaq's like this guy's notblind, because Shaq got into an
elevator one time, didn't say aword or anything.
Stevie Wonder just knew it wasShaq and he was just like how
does he know?
It's me?
So, um, so you're saying steviewonder for?
(15:49):
tim, I'm saying stevie wonderbecause he can make, he can see
those calls and he can makethose calls a lot better okay, I
hmm, if I'm gonna try toreplace it with a, just a
basketball movie character,that's what I'm gonna try to do,
I'm gonna go with.
(16:10):
You know, my brain, my brain,keeps going back to jesus
shuttleworth, okay, uh, from hegot game, okay, and so I'm I'll
just go with that.
That's fair.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Played by ray allen but you said for just the kings,
just the kings, what?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
I'll replace doug christie with who with jesus
shuttleworth.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I guess the same position oh man, I wish I knew
with some basketball players ormovies um okay, wait, wait,
here's a good question for you.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Actually, let's go with this.
Ready for this one who will bewith foghorn leghorn if you had
to choose coaches for each team.
Who's coaching?
Who's coaching?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
who's?
Speaker 2 (16:57):
coaching doesn't even be in.
You know what can't be a realcoach?
It's got to be an actor a movieactor.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
It's gotta be like a movie actor, wait, wait.
So if I say bill murray, or amI saying, like what is his name?
Peter vinkman from fromghostbusters?
Which one is it, the characteror the actor?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
let's go with the characters.
Okay, let's go with thecharacters.
It can't be from a sports movieokay, we're taking out all the
sports movie characters.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Whoo yep, cool.
I got slap shots, the hustlerand space jam out of my head,
taking all that out.
What you got, oh man, um, forthe coaches, for the coaches,
you know what?
Why don't you go first?
You're going to put it back onme.
I am.
(17:46):
I want some time to think aboutthis, okay.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I want.
I want Vince Vaughn fromRunning Crashers, no, from the
internship.
Okay, I want him in there.
Owen Wilson will be hisassistant coach and he can be a
Lakers coach.
I'm just going to say thatright now.
He'll be the Lakers coach, okay.
On the other side, who I wantis Shrek.
(18:13):
Shout out to our next episodeand Donkey Shout out to our next
episode, don't get shout out toour next episode and let's see,
let's see who comes out I'mgonna be honest, shrek, he's
fighting dirty, he's fightingdirty, all right, who do you?
Speaker 1 (18:32):
let's go, uh, let's go um man, you know what I'm
going?
I'm going Chunk.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
From the.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Goonies no, no, no, I'm going a little bit darker
than that.
Okay.
Anthony Hopkins as HannibalLecter Okay.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
I'm going to really kill the opponent.
Yeah, more and.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
And that is going to be the Lakers.
Okay, bloodsuckers, so kind offits.
Who am I going to pick as?
What's the other team?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Sacramento.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Kings, sacramento, sacramento.
Okay, my man Bo Rat.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Pee-wee Herman, pee-wee Herman for Sacramento
Kings.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Rest in peace.
Yeah.
Oh wow, that's a pair up.
You're never not going to beentertained, and I don't think
either one of them would knowhow to play basketball.
That is the best pick.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
You know what I think ?
Fight me on that.
Pee-wee Herman would luck hisway into it.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Based off I think, fight me on that Pee.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Wee Herman would luck his way into it Based off his
movies he'd luck his way into it.
Go har har whatever his voice is, yeah, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra,
ra, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra,ra, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra,
ra, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra ra.
That'd be kind of a fun matchup, I guess.
Final thoughts Going back onthis game, I don't think it was
(20:12):
as poorly reffed as I rememberback in the day, because growing
up I was rooting for the Lakers, but I do think that it was
definitely still a poorly reffedgame.
I don't think it is as goingback.
It's not as atrocious.
I did like seeing the oldbasketball game itself.
It feels different.
It's got a different vibe.
It does, it does.
(20:33):
It felt more energetic.
It was a better atmosphere inmy opinion, compared to what you
get nowadays, and morecompetitive.
You can see there's a lot morecompetitiveness in the game.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
It felt like more drive, like just just in the way
they played yeah, there wasdefinitely more.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
You got more out of it as a viewer, for sure.
Yeah, even the commentary, Ifelt like you got more out of it
and because of that, the musicdude we didn't even touch the
music the music.
Have you ever seen that guylike that?
Sorry, I had some listeners.
Have you seen that guy like in,like he was at a concert one
(21:14):
time and he just goes like this,like with his fingers.
You can't see, I know, but I'mjust like flicking my wrist back
forth, right now, right andhe's doing that and he goes over
to the piano and, like people,start playing it and he goes no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,no no no, yeah, it's a guy he
does.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Oh, it's awesome um music, best of all there's music
is whoever wrote that went toohard.
There's talks about bringingthat back.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Good, there's talks about bringing it back, but, um,
good, I mean, I I'd give itbased off a basketball.
Watching a nine a nine, justbecause it's it gets your blood
pumping, um, just, but not froma movie standpoint, from
basketball standpoint yeah, uh,so my final thoughts, uh, I, I
(21:58):
think this is okay for reallyany age to watch you should.
You should definitely show kidsto teach in basketball actually
this is what you don't do kids.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Um yeah, like I, I don't think there's really any
age restrictions that we can puton this.
Um, yeah, uh, you can show achild this.
You could show a 99.
Oh, granted, if a 99 year oldbasketball fan saw this, they
might die.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Um just your they might die.
It's just your face they mightdie.
Or if you're even more sincere,like you're smiling, they might
die.
Went away from the sincerity ofyour face, but it's okay that
they're going to die.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
No, your sincerity about it.
So, as a non-basketball watcher, someone who's trying to get
into just kind of following thispart, I'm going to give it.
I'm going to give it an A.
I'm going to give it an A.
That's a solid score.
It was not nearly as egregiousas I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah, going back and looking at it not as much,
nearly as egregious as I thoughtit was going to be.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, Going back and looking at it not as much, the
punch, the screen and maybe oneother thing were kind of what I
could see.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
The dive on the floor .
Yeah, the dive on the floor wasbad.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
There was a lot of questionable calls that I could
see argued.
Either way, if this is aworst-called game, they're doing
a pretty good job at callinggames.
Yeah, um, granted, what theymissed here was was bad.
It just wasn't as bad as Ithought.
Totally entertaining, yeah,totally entertaining.
(23:36):
Uh, the players, fantastic fun.
Uh, it's from an era from whenI was growing up, from when you
were growing up, from when youwere growing up.
Oh, yeah, I watched it live.
I remember, yeah, it's supernostalgic, rooting.
I don't know it scratched thatitch.
I don't have a lot of otherbasketball games to kind of base
this off of.
I'm going to Nate.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Solid score.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah, would watch again.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Two solid teams.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Alright, if you want to find us, if you want to
listen to more of our stuff weusually review movies you can
listen to our stuff wherever youget podcasts, whether that's
Spotify, whether that's nolonger Google Music, but it's
YouTube Music or Apple Podcastsor Pocket Casts or Pandora.
(24:27):
For you, five listeners.
We appreciate you.
We appreciate you.
You can just look us up at theBackseat Critics.
We're also on YouTube.
No videos there yet, but we'reworking on it and you know until
next time.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
We out.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.