Reigniting Human Connection: A Game Changer for Today's Mental Health Challenges
In this insightful episode of Beach Money Podcast, host Jim Klauck brings in a special guest, Grey, a visionary creator, who revolutionizes interpersonal interaction through his card game, Purpose. In a fast-paced digital world where mental health issues are escalating among the younger generations, this session explores the groundbreaking idea of rebooting traditional board games to foster deeper human connection and mitigate mental health problems.
Grey, a seasoned tech company leader, and an ardent advocate for meaningful conversations and authenticity, harnesses his game purpose to help people gain clarity about their life goals. He firmly believes that genuine face-to-face interplay is vital for mental wellbeing, which is increasingly compromised by instant gratifying but shallow digital interaction, resulting in loneliness and other psychological issues.
Delving into the evolution and impact of communication styles on mental health, this episode uncovers how Purpose aims to counter this problem by promoting honest conversations, nurturing substantial relationships, and bringing much-needed clarity in people's lives. It's not just about playing a game, but about rejuvenating lost human bonds and confronting the mental health crisis.
Discover the Transformative Power of Authentic Connection Through Game Play
In this fascinating episode, Grey introduces a game of revelation, Purpose, designed to ignite insightful and in-depth discussions, providing fresh perspectives and encouraging introspection. Purpose consists of profound questions that stimulate deep thought and self-revelation.
Grey elucidates with an example, showcasing how Purpose works. A question about relinquishing inhibiting factors can lead to a soul-stirring dialog about eradicating toxic elements from one’s life, marking the path to personal evolution. With fear of change, awareness, and the transformative nature of adversity as recurrent themes, the episode explores how Purpose has the potential to revolutionize conversations globally, build substantial relationships, and ultimately, cultivate a web of enriched and conscious discussions.
Stories about the game's impact on diverse platforms, from care homes to coffee shops, testify to its success. Purpose seems to have a magical knack to pull people back into the present, away from the alluring clutches of technology. Tune in to explore the transformative power of Purpose, possibly a panacea for rejuvenating human interaction and reconnecting our increasingly fragmented world.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hi, everybody. Jim Klauck here on the Beach Money Podcast.
It is so great to have you here. Another good friend of Jordan Adler's is joining me today.
It's going to be a great conversation about purpose in your life and other people's
lives. Grey, welcome to the program.
Thank you so much for having me, Jim. Yeah, it is great to have you here.
(00:23):
I can't wait to dive in to talk about your game called Purpose and what that
means to you and the people around you.
And I also want to dive into, in this podcast today, in this discussion,
(00:43):
what has changed over the decades with purpose and how we interact and how COVID
affected the way we were able to interact with people.
And of course, also, our good friend, Mr.
Zuckerberg, what has he done to change our connections as well?
(01:06):
So welcome to the program.
Yeah, thanks again for having me, man. You mentioned a lot of interesting things there, right?
Where do you want to get started? All right, well, let's start with purpose, your card game.
Explain what it is, how you came about the idea and the problem you're trying to solve.
(01:32):
Because whenever we come up with a product or service, it's generally to solve a problem.
And I have a feeling that you had this aha moment where you're like, you know what?
This product is going to be able to help people with their purpose and with
(01:52):
their social connections.
Absolutely. Yeah. So as you know, as an entrepreneur, you always are aware of
problems and that's how I've been for a very long time.
But what I have to say about purpose, it wasn't what I saw as an opportunity and a problem.
(02:12):
It felt it was really a calling. And that's the one unique difference of every
business that I've ever had since I'm very young, since I'm 13 years old,
doing importing and exporting back in elementary and doing things like that.
I always saw that there was some kind of problem. Either I wanted to solve it
for myself or I wanted to solve it for people and do something positive in a way.
(02:35):
And you get rewarded for what you bring to the marketplace and how you can transform lives.
Now, when it comes to this, it felt completely different. So I was actually
driving in Montreal, right, which we both lived there.
And I was driving there on the 40, which is the highway that connects all of Canada.
(02:59):
And in that moment, I was personally going through a very difficult time.
One of the hardest moments in my life where we had a lot of shifts happening
in business at a tech company at that time with almost 20, so between 20 and 30 team members there.
(03:19):
And I was figuring out how I was going to make things happen as a CEO and the
youngest person in the entire company.
And I started asking myself a lot of questions.
Now, when you start asking yourself a lot of questions, at some point,
you're hoping to get some kind of answers, right?
And there's one answer that came through as I desperately felt like I needed some clarity.
(03:46):
And it was a voice. And a voice just peers through and says, hey, calm down.
Everything's going to be okay, but what you need to do right now is you need to create a card game.
And I said, what? A card game?
And it said, right now, the world is going to be more disconnected than it ever has been before.
(04:14):
People are lacking connection, they're lacking clarity, and they're lacking
direction in who they truly are. And you need to basically gamify the process
of discovering your truth.
And I basically had this vision of this entire experience,
(04:39):
how people around the world were playing this game and connecting and actually looking at each other.
And since then, I mean, fast forward, actually having to make the game.
And that was an entire process, which we were actually doing a documentary of
the project and how it kind of started with pieces of paper.
(05:00):
After that, I had to start with some pieces of paper and starting to get people
together and playing what felt like, to me, something that can really make a difference,
all the way to having people message us and telling us that they got married,
meeting through the game and all these different experiences,
people who have built multimillion dollar companies that all started with a
(05:20):
card game and the questions,
because I believe that you can change your life through the questions that you
ask yourself and how you ask it and where and with who and in different times.
I've played this game at this point, thousands of times with so many different people.
And it's so interesting how it gives you different perspective of different people and clarity.
(05:42):
Is really what people are seeking. We talk a lot about mental health.
We talk a lot about depression.
But I want you to tell me if someone who has a high level of purpose,
has high level of clarity, and they're moving in the direction that their heart
desires, that has oppression, you'll find nobody.
So really what we're having here is a lack of purpose.
(06:05):
And that comes down to clarity. And clarity only comes down when you start getting
answers in life. Life and answers in life only come from questions.
And it's rare that we take the time to ask ourselves those questions.
Why do you think people today need so much clarity?
Um, I don't believe 50 years ago,
(06:25):
maybe even 30 years ago, there was the mental health crisis that we hear about
today in North America and maybe over in the UK and, you know,
um, other, other countries that are more advanced.
You go back to countries that haven't advanced much in the past 50 years or 100 years.
(06:50):
Their lives haven't changed. They don't have the stresses we have.
They don't have the communication issues. issues um
is it because of social media
we hear that blame all the time even the u.s government wants
to blame social media on suicides and uh young 14 year old girls having image
(07:10):
issues and so forth um do you think that that i mean put covet aside um that
was you know an issue but But, you know,
social media is prevalent,
especially with younger people today.
And I feel that that the younger generations, people who are teens into their
(07:33):
30s are having more mental health issues than people in their 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s.
So why do you think that is?
Yeah. It's interesting to blame something you control. And there's a lot of
things there, but the first thing is that people are not living their life.
(07:57):
When you actually go back 50 years, maybe people didn't have the level of clarity
that we are now seeking, but guess what? People were having real conversations.
People were looking at each other in the eyes. People actually experienced touch.
(08:17):
The levels of oxytocin, which is extremely important for human beings because
that's what really makes you human, really connection, is,
so low compared to what it was, and it's been replaced by dopamine and other
different hits that are there to control.
When I'm on social media, guess what? Every single time you get this notification,
(08:37):
you get some kind of like a message.
It's been designed, and this is programmed by design to hit dopamine center.
And now what that's doing is it's actually creating addiction.
That's why so many people are so addicted to these platforms, right?
Now, we don't have to get into all the reasoning of advertising and why people
(09:00):
want to keep you on the platform and all that.
But what you do need to realize is that.
If all you're getting during your day in terms of what you want is connection
and you're getting dopamine hits and you're getting what's really surface level interactions,
because there's a big difference, Jim, between digital connectivity and real
(09:24):
in-depth human connection.
And that's a term that's starting to be thrown out a lot, but there's a big
difference and say, oh, we're more connected than ever before.
We are, yes, we are so interconnected digitally than ever before,
but we are more disconnected on a true human essence than ever before.
(09:47):
And that's something that if you actually look at the data, and I always like
to look at the data just because it's something that gives you a really strong
understanding, and it's like the stock market, You can see the trends.
Well, there's a trend. And as technology and now AI is skyrocketing,
(10:07):
guess what is happening to actual connection?
And through that connection is where we find ourselves.
We find ourselves through connection. We find ourselves through conversation.
And that is the reason why people were having a different level of clarity because
they were actually having compassion, they were having experiences,
(10:27):
they were having moments of life.
The moments of life that most people are having nowadays, guess what?
It's happening through a screen.
So how do you think that's going to, how is that going to have a ripple effect
on your experience of life?
And people want deep inside to live their life, to live it to the fullest,
(10:47):
to experience life, you know, and to be the person that they're meant here to be.
So we're destroying ourselves. That's what it sounds like.
So, you know, what's really, really interesting is if I wanted to today,
I could have the hottest, best virtual girlfriend online.
(11:12):
You're telling me that's not going to be satisfying. You're telling me I need
flesh and bone, someone I can talk to, someone I can touch, someone I can kiss, right?
Yeah, I think that you would have a short-term, if first of all,
it's something that you would consider, because for example,
someone like me, I'm not saying you in particular, right?
(11:33):
But let's just say that's something that someone would consider.
I think what they would find out at some point is that it's short-term satisfaction.
And on a longer-term horizon, they would feel more lonely than ever before.
And we're having an epidemic of loneliness that's happening.
Actually, the founder of Airbnb was talking about that.
(11:55):
And he was actually explaining how that's one of the main things that he personally wants to touch.
And it's not just loneliness is actually inside because there's a lot of people
walking the street together, but alone.
There's a lot of people at a nightclub moving bottles around,
(12:17):
drinking and pretending they're having fun, but alone.
And so real connection happens not at that surface.
It happens deeper. It happens usually when there's a mix of high stake,
high connection experience and when there is authenticity.
(12:40):
And authenticity is seen through action and through conversation.
And so that's where it happens. And that's where you see real relationships be built.
People want to feel, want to have real relationships.
Anything surface, guess what? It just doesn't last. And so I will say the same
thing about this virtual girlfriend, that it won't last.
(13:03):
It can last on a contract, on a subscription, and you'll get billed every month
for having this person here to be with, but she's not actually there.
Yeah at some point you could be cheaper than a real
girlfriend though right so that's true that's true
i won't argue that might not age and maybe she'll say some nice things about
me um and i'm i'm kind of joking but this is a thing today i mean you can have
(13:26):
a virtual girlfriend um i think the world's kind of screwy and i say that because of the fact that.
I've been around a long time. When I was young, our telephones were screwed to the wall.
We didn't call people. We called places and asked if that person was there.
(13:50):
So everything's different. I was a well-grown adult when smartphones became
available and apps were coming into play.
I mean, I was married and I was a father of children.
There are young people, a younger generation, who knows nothing else but that.
(14:12):
They didn't sit around the campfire and tell stories.
They didn't sit at the kitchen table and play board games or card games.
They never had that. tell me about
how your game purpose i'm
assuming brings back some of that connection that i'm
(14:34):
familiar with when i was young that i still get today because i haven't that
hasn't left me i think i'm blessed that i'm older i i really do because i'm
in a new world now that i'm like it's like going to a different country i'm
still an american and i'm like this culture is different Well,
I'm still the guy who grew up in the 70s and 80s where there wasn't technology like this.
(14:59):
And I'm living in this saying, I'm kind of glad I had the experience before
because I can still use it. So talk about how your game purpose helps people.
Yeah, that's, that's, that's, you made a lot of good points there.
And just to connect it back to the game for me it was important to really I
(15:19):
started engineering connection and looking at it from a perspective of okay what is connection and.
How do you have also, not only that, but how do you create breakthroughs in relationships?
And this can be personal breakthroughs. This can be breakthroughs with people
(15:40):
around you, where you actually find a way to be authentic, to grow.
A lot of people have had financial breakthroughs, believe it or not.
Like I was mentioning to you, how people have built very successful businesses.
And we actually keep track on these stories because one of my exciting projects
this year is to document that.
(16:02):
And since I've been in the film industry for a long time as a producer,
director, actor in the past, I have a lot of passion for documenting stories
and sharing them to the world.
So that's going to be exciting. And when it comes to that, when it comes to
any financial breakthrough, for example, it's all interconnected to internal.
Everything comes back to that. And all that comes back to getting the right
(16:26):
perspectives, getting the right prompts, getting the right questions in different
moments, and adding a gameplay element to it that makes it fun.
One, there's people out there that have told me to play the game for over five hours.
Like, tell me another game that, tell me the last time someone played Uno for five hours.
There's people out there who literally played the game over 500 times.
(16:47):
And I have this all in writing. And it said, they take it every place that they go.
And again, there's always super fans right now. I'm not saying everybody, this is the case.
But even at that case, the reason why is because it is able to supercharge a conversation.
It's able to give different perspectives on things. And so I'll give you one example here.
(17:13):
Let me grab a card for you, Jim. Okay. Okay.
So if we open the game here, all right, Jim, top or bottom?
I'll take the bottom. You'll take the bottom. So there's a question at the top
and a question at the bottom. Okay. Okay.
(17:33):
This sounds kind of racy at the top or bottom, but I'll go for the bottom today.
What do we got? Go for the bottom. Okay.
So what's one thing that you've been holding on to that it's time to let go
of? What would you say to that?
I, I really don't have a response. And, and the reason why is I've,
(17:59):
I've gone through a lot of things and I, I I've shed so much.
I have no regrets anymore.
I live a different life than many people. And there's, I'm not working on,
on anything that's holding me back.
And I know that sounds unbelievable, but that's my mindset.
Repeat the question again, and I'll see if I come up with something.
And that could be an answer, right? And that's actually the first time that
(18:21):
someone has answered in that way, believe it or not.
So the question is, what's one thing that you've been holding on to that it's
time to let go of or that you can let go of?
Either it's emotional, it's physical, anything.
I can tell you so many things I have let go of.
Tell me one thing that you have let go of that was really transformational.
Oh, close relationships that just had to be severed.
(18:45):
Family relationships, for instance. A lot of people say that they can't stop
talking to a parent or a sibling or an aunt and an uncle because they're family.
I got over that a while ago saying, you know what?
If they're not good for me and it's holding me back where I can't be good for
(19:05):
others, that's just a bad relationship.
And I'm not like most people. A lot of people are kind of hung up,
I believe, with, oh my gosh, what would happen if I got a divorce?
Worse what would people think um you know
my father i you know i have to still see him um because
he's my father right even though he he stresses
(19:26):
me out and and he says horrible things about me
i still need to go to those family functions my question is really
do you and i think a lot of
people aren't strong enough to
do what they need to do which is cut the cancer out of their lives and and and
you know what i'm talking about this happens all the time um i i've done a lot
(19:49):
of things in my life that other people wouldn't have done and the more i do that.
The easier it is and so i
find that especially with the younger generations
i keep going back to this i find that that there
seems to be a lot of excuses and a lot of well it's not that easy or or you
(20:17):
know my parents generation they didn't have to deal with this and there's you
know so many problems today in society there's always been problems my father was born in 1930,
he lived in a depression and a world war he's 93 still going strong no problems and.
(20:39):
So anyway, don't have a specific answer,
but I totally understand because at my age today,
I've, I've gotten to a point where I made a decision to just start carving crap out and I'm free. Yeah.
Yeah. And I mean, so you can see that you've been, you went through,
(21:03):
you call it the work, you know, the work you've been, you've gone through that.
And you can just imagine how many people need to do that work, need to let go of things.
A lot of people are looking to get something new or looking to change their
life by what can they gain, what can they do so that they can become,
not realizing first that you need to start letting go.
(21:25):
And that's the first stage of transcending anything. And most people won't.
They won't. They're afraid. They really are. They're afraid to let go of that
relationship or the job or anything.
And I think that's always been the case. I think most people,
(21:47):
well, I know this for a fact, studies say people are more afraid of a loss than the potential win.
In other words, someone rather not lose something than win something.
Yeah, definitely. They rather not lose a hundred dollars than win a lot. Yeah.
And people are afraid of loss and, and, and they're afraid of change.
People say all the time, I don't like change. You see, I love change.
(22:10):
Throw change at me, brother. I love change. I thrive on change.
And that's probably a big difference between me and most people where they're like,
oh i lost my job oh my
girlfriend broke up with me congratulations they're like
what do you mean i told people when they're going through a divorce
i say congratulations they're like what do you mean i
(22:32):
said this is a new beginning this is a blessing trust
me what doesn't kill you makes you stronger they're like this is rough i said
you know what i've been through a divorce and it wasn't my idea and it was rough
and it was the single biggest thing that happened to me in changed my life.
It wasn't the birth of my children.
(22:53):
It wasn't anything else. It was that event.
And honestly, Gray, I think that that's when it really changed for me. And I was 30 years old.
That's when it really changed for me where I'm like, if I can live through this, because it was brutal.
When I look back, it was pivotal. And I think everyone should have major hardship that doesn't kill them.
(23:21):
100% agree. And I love what you said there. It was brutal, but it was pivotal.
And that's what people need to realize.
And actually, I mean, that was one question, but you can imagine actually how
one question can actually have a powerful change in someone's people's lives.
Because yes, you see, most people don't want to change, but it's been incredible to watch.
A question, even just like that one that just came up, the amount of people
(23:43):
that have let go of things. Why?
Because of the power of awareness and collective support.
And so when you're playing Purpose, part of it is we're making a safe space here, guys.
You know if you're going to play this game it's it's fun you've had people playing it
you know right before a party everyone connects you
have it all kinds of different things right on a date but
then you also have people that play this game like on retreats and
(24:06):
ceremonies you know where it gets really deep and i was hearing a story of someone
who was playing it like a shaman was playing in ibiza in ibiza uh in spain right
and then they were doing it and there was a drum and people were saying top
or bottom you know get they got really deep and how transformational it was. It was cool to hear.
But the thing is that when you have that awareness of what is I actually have
(24:30):
to let go of, people think about it. They identify.
And through that identifying, it's I have to let go of this excuse.
It's time. I have to let go of this relationship that no longer serves me. It's time.
And when you have people around you that are like, it's time.
You can do this. Guess what?
You just get this newfound power
and energy in you. And there's There's a purpose to let it go, right?
(24:53):
And that's why through hundreds of questions and now, for me, this is one game.
We have 10 plus games that are launching this year before 2025.
We have four games that are launching in the next quarter, right?
And they're all different editions for different purposes.
We just partnered up with one of the biggest coffee houses here in British Columbia,
which they're going to be having the purpose game edition of that coffee house
(25:17):
at all 27 locations starting in three weeks.
And so there's a lot of expansion for us in terms of really connecting,
having these conversations and bringing into daily life a lot more.
And I believe that if you change the conversations around the world,
you can change the world.
And the reason for that is because all there is, Jim, it's a network of conversations,
(25:39):
all the way from politics to entertainment to tech. Everything is a network of conversations.
If you can elevate the conversations, you're elevating consciousness.
What people are speaking about.
Now, we're not just speaking about what happened here, and this drama here,
and what's the weather like here, or other surface level things.
We're actually stepping into different truths of each other.
(26:00):
And through those truths of each other, we start discovering our own truth.
And that's why it's powerful.
It sounds like in some instances, it could be a therapy session.
I can see people crying, you know, breaking down because, you know,
they, they have this inside themselves, whatever this is.
(26:21):
And the question is asked and they start down the path and I can see like 60,
90 seconds into it, then just like, but it could be very good for them to get it off their chest.
Yeah. Actually, the first time I played this game with a group of people,
and it was important for me to bring people that didn't all know each other.
(26:45):
And I'll tell you this off screen because it's a long story,
but it was a very powerful first time.
And at what period of time there
was, you know, it was really interesting how it all kind of happened.
And once people started playing for a while, someone at the table said,
Gray, this game can normalize therapy between friends.
(27:10):
And that happened as there was tears, there was laughs, there was hugs,
and all of this in the time where people were the most disconnected ever,
because there was lockdowns in Montreal and many different other places, right?
And so it just happened to be really powerful for me to see.
And when I started seeing kind of like the impact that that had there,
that's when I knew I had to, and they said, you have to make this, right?
(27:33):
And so it's interesting to see what is it, that was a moment for me,
you know, especially in the beginning.
And so it is, and then since then we've had hundreds of therapists that have
actually used the cards, you know, in different moments.
My own aunt in Mexico is a therapist and she was telling me the other day how
she uses it before every client.
She just picks up a card and asks top or bottom. them. And then from there,
(27:54):
it gets the conversation going.
And she says how it opens up compared to when she's just going straight into it. It allows them to be.
And the thing about that too, Jim, is that we're bringing it back to play.
And once we are playing, that's bringing us back to our highest level of authenticity and of presence.
A lot of people are not present, especially in this day and age.
(28:16):
You know that, right? And how important it is to be present.
So I see purpose, And especially our future games to be an opportunity to really
anchor people back to the present because I've seen it happen.
People are not on their phones with a plain purpose. Nobody is,
which is so rare, right? Well, yeah, you can't. You have to unplug.
Otherwise, it doesn't work. You have to unplug. Yeah. Yeah. I hope so.
(28:37):
Yeah. I mean, you know, I find myself on my electronic devices all the time.
But in all fairness, I really use the technology predominantly for business.
But there's some...
(28:58):
Educational things. Like I get news and so forth from my device,
but I think a difference between someone from my generation and my children's
generation is I'm not doing a lot of connecting with people my age.
Like my daughter, she'll spend all day, you know, selfies and Tik TOK and talking
(29:24):
to people, you know, communicating that way where,
I, I won't, if it's my friend's birthday, I'll probably send them a text and call them.
But then again, I'm from a different generation. And so I don't,
I can't totally understand what some people are going through.
(29:47):
Um, I've been happily married for 26 years. My wife and I spent a lot of time together.
Um, I don't have a lot of friends. I know a lot of people, but most men,
Men my age don't have like, you know, 50 or 100 friends anymore like we did in high school.
We have, you know, five or six people who we know would show up to our funeral.
And so you always know it's a good friend that show up to your funeral.
(30:11):
And I just I just find it fascinating today how disconnected people are in an ultra connected world.
World um i wish we could talk about this for hours but we can't but here's what
i want to promise the people who are listening and watching this i'm going to
put your contact information in the show notes and also i want to put a link
(30:36):
in there so people can order the game.
Yeah, I would love to, you know,
for me, when it comes to it, what gets me the most excited is to hear any stories
and see how we can be of further service because the game is the starting point for the Purpose brand.
(30:59):
And we can talk about that in the future more, but we have a lot of exciting
projects that are really transformational, but they wouldn't have been possible
if it wasn't for the game. And
so anyone who's listening, who wants to experience that, give it a try.
I can guarantee you that you will have a profound experience.
And my challenge to you is to play it 10 times and tell me how you have transformed,
(31:23):
how you have seen things in a different way, how you have listened to somebody
that was maybe around you, but you haven't actually looked at them or appreciated them fully.
Holy, I have a friend, 25 plus years, I played this game with.
The first time we looked at each other and we said, wow, I've known this person
for 25 years since I'm super young.
And it's crazy. I played this game with my own mother, right?
(31:43):
And I realized all these different things that I had no idea.
And so how powerful is that, right? And so, yeah, I would love to hear your
stories and see how else me or my team can be of service.
Yeah. Have a purpose party and give feedback to Gray. Ray.
Grey, thank you so much for joining me today here on the podcast. Much appreciated.
(32:04):
Thank you, Jim. Really appreciate it, man.
Hi, everybody. Jim Klauck here on the Beach Money Podcast.
It is so great to have you here. Another good friend of Jordan Adler's is joining me today.
It's going to be a great conversation about purpose in your life and other people's
lives. Grey, welcome to the program.
Thank you so much for having me, Jim. Yeah, it is great to have you here.
(00:23):
I can't wait to dive in to talk about your game called Purpose and what that
means to you and the people around you.
And I also want to dive into, in this podcast today, in this discussion,
(00:43):
what has changed over the decades with purpose and how we interact and how COVID
affected the way we were able to interact with people.
And of course, also, our good friend, Mr.
Zuckerberg, what has he done to change our connections as well?
(01:06):
So welcome to the program.
Yeah, thanks again for having me, man. You mentioned a lot of interesting things there, right?
Where do you want to get started? All right, well, let's start with purpose, your card game.
Explain what it is, how you came about the idea and the problem you're trying to solve.
(01:32):
Because whenever we come up with a product or service, it's generally to solve a problem.
And I have a feeling that you had this aha moment where you're like, you know what?
This product is going to be able to help people with their purpose and with
(01:52):
their social connections.
Absolutely. Yeah. So as you know, as an entrepreneur, you always are aware of
problems and that's how I've been for a very long time.
But what I have to say about purpose, it wasn't what I saw as an opportunity and a problem.
(02:12):
It felt it was really a calling. And that's the one unique difference of every
business that I've ever had since I'm very young, since I'm 13 years old,
doing importing and exporting back in elementary and doing things like that.
I always saw that there was some kind of problem. Either I wanted to solve it
for myself or I wanted to solve it for people and do something positive in a way.
(02:35):
And you get rewarded for what you bring to the marketplace and how you can transform lives.
Now, when it comes to this, it felt completely different. So I was actually
driving in Montreal, right, which we both lived there.
And I was driving there on the 40, which is the highway that connects all of Canada.
(02:59):
And in that moment, I was personally going through a very difficult time.
One of the hardest moments in my life where we had a lot of shifts happening
in business at a tech company at that time with almost 20, so between 20 and 30 team members there.
(03:19):
And I was figuring out how I was going to make things happen as a CEO and the
youngest person in the entire company.
And I started asking myself a lot of questions.
Now, when you start asking yourself a lot of questions, at some point,
you're hoping to get some kind of answers, right?
And there's one answer that came through as I desperately felt like I needed some clarity.
(03:46):
And it was a voice. And a voice just peers through and says, hey, calm down.
Everything's going to be okay, but what you need to do right now is you need to create a card game.
And I said, what? A card game?
And it said, right now, the world is going to be more disconnected than it ever has been before.
(04:14):
People are lacking connection, they're lacking clarity, and they're lacking
direction in who they truly are. And you need to basically gamify the process
of discovering your truth.
And I basically had this vision of this entire experience,
(04:39):
how people around the world were playing this game and connecting and actually looking at each other.
And since then, I mean, fast forward, actually having to make the game.
And that was an entire process, which we were actually doing a documentary of
the project and how it kind of started with pieces of paper.
(05:00):
After that, I had to start with some pieces of paper and starting to get people
together and playing what felt like, to me, something that can really make a difference,
all the way to having people message us and telling us that they got married,
meeting through the game and all these different experiences,
people who have built multimillion dollar companies that all started with a
(05:20):
card game and the questions,
because I believe that you can change your life through the questions that you
ask yourself and how you ask it and where and with who and in different times.
I've played this game at this point, thousands of times with so many different people.
And it's so interesting how it gives you different perspective of different people and clarity.
(05:42):
Is really what people are seeking. We talk a lot about mental health.
We talk a lot about depression.
But I want you to tell me if someone who has a high level of purpose,
has high level of clarity, and they're moving in the direction that their heart
desires, that has oppression, you'll find nobody.
So really what we're having here is a lack of purpose.
(06:05):
And that comes down to clarity. And clarity only comes down when you start getting
answers in life. Life and answers in life only come from questions.
And it's rare that we take the time to ask ourselves those questions.
Why do you think people today need so much clarity?
Um, I don't believe 50 years ago,
(06:25):
maybe even 30 years ago, there was the mental health crisis that we hear about
today in North America and maybe over in the UK and, you know,
um, other, other countries that are more advanced.
You go back to countries that haven't advanced much in the past 50 years or 100 years.
(06:50):
Their lives haven't changed. They don't have the stresses we have.
They don't have the communication issues. issues um
is it because of social media
we hear that blame all the time even the u.s government wants
to blame social media on suicides and uh young 14 year old girls having image
(07:10):
issues and so forth um do you think that that i mean put covet aside um that
was you know an issue but But, you know,
social media is prevalent,
especially with younger people today.
And I feel that that the younger generations, people who are teens into their
(07:33):
30s are having more mental health issues than people in their 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s.
So why do you think that is?
Yeah. It's interesting to blame something you control. And there's a lot of
things there, but the first thing is that people are not living their life.
(07:57):
When you actually go back 50 years, maybe people didn't have the level of clarity
that we are now seeking, but guess what? People were having real conversations.
People were looking at each other in the eyes. People actually experienced touch.
(08:17):
The levels of oxytocin, which is extremely important for human beings because
that's what really makes you human, really connection, is,
so low compared to what it was, and it's been replaced by dopamine and other
different hits that are there to control.
When I'm on social media, guess what? Every single time you get this notification,
(08:37):
you get some kind of like a message.
It's been designed, and this is programmed by design to hit dopamine center.
And now what that's doing is it's actually creating addiction.
That's why so many people are so addicted to these platforms, right?
Now, we don't have to get into all the reasoning of advertising and why people
(09:00):
want to keep you on the platform and all that.
But what you do need to realize is that.
If all you're getting during your day in terms of what you want is connection
and you're getting dopamine hits and you're getting what's really surface level interactions,
because there's a big difference, Jim, between digital connectivity and real
(09:24):
in-depth human connection.
And that's a term that's starting to be thrown out a lot, but there's a big
difference and say, oh, we're more connected than ever before.
We are, yes, we are so interconnected digitally than ever before,
but we are more disconnected on a true human essence than ever before.
(09:47):
And that's something that if you actually look at the data, and I always like
to look at the data just because it's something that gives you a really strong
understanding, and it's like the stock market, You can see the trends.
Well, there's a trend. And as technology and now AI is skyrocketing,
(10:07):
guess what is happening to actual connection?
And through that connection is where we find ourselves.
We find ourselves through connection. We find ourselves through conversation.
And that is the reason why people were having a different level of clarity because
they were actually having compassion, they were having experiences,
(10:27):
they were having moments of life.
The moments of life that most people are having nowadays, guess what?
It's happening through a screen.
So how do you think that's going to, how is that going to have a ripple effect
on your experience of life?
And people want deep inside to live their life, to live it to the fullest,
(10:47):
to experience life, you know, and to be the person that they're meant here to be.
So we're destroying ourselves. That's what it sounds like.
So, you know, what's really, really interesting is if I wanted to today,
I could have the hottest, best virtual girlfriend online.
(11:12):
You're telling me that's not going to be satisfying. You're telling me I need
flesh and bone, someone I can talk to, someone I can touch, someone I can kiss, right?
Yeah, I think that you would have a short-term, if first of all,
it's something that you would consider, because for example,
someone like me, I'm not saying you in particular, right?
(11:33):
But let's just say that's something that someone would consider.
I think what they would find out at some point is that it's short-term satisfaction.
And on a longer-term horizon, they would feel more lonely than ever before.
And we're having an epidemic of loneliness that's happening.
Actually, the founder of Airbnb was talking about that.
(11:55):
And he was actually explaining how that's one of the main things that he personally wants to touch.
And it's not just loneliness is actually inside because there's a lot of people
walking the street together, but alone.
There's a lot of people at a nightclub moving bottles around,
(12:17):
drinking and pretending they're having fun, but alone.
And so real connection happens not at that surface.
It happens deeper. It happens usually when there's a mix of high stake,
high connection experience and when there is authenticity.
(12:40):
And authenticity is seen through action and through conversation.
And so that's where it happens. And that's where you see real relationships be built.
People want to feel, want to have real relationships.
Anything surface, guess what? It just doesn't last. And so I will say the same
thing about this virtual girlfriend, that it won't last.
(13:03):
It can last on a contract, on a subscription, and you'll get billed every month
for having this person here to be with, but she's not actually there.
Yeah at some point you could be cheaper than a real
girlfriend though right so that's true that's true
i won't argue that might not age and maybe she'll say some nice things about
me um and i'm i'm kind of joking but this is a thing today i mean you can have
(13:26):
a virtual girlfriend um i think the world's kind of screwy and i say that because of the fact that.
I've been around a long time. When I was young, our telephones were screwed to the wall.
We didn't call people. We called places and asked if that person was there.
(13:50):
So everything's different. I was a well-grown adult when smartphones became
available and apps were coming into play.
I mean, I was married and I was a father of children.
There are young people, a younger generation, who knows nothing else but that.
(14:12):
They didn't sit around the campfire and tell stories.
They didn't sit at the kitchen table and play board games or card games.
They never had that. tell me about
how your game purpose i'm
assuming brings back some of that connection that i'm
(14:34):
familiar with when i was young that i still get today because i haven't that
hasn't left me i think i'm blessed that i'm older i i really do because i'm
in a new world now that i'm like it's like going to a different country i'm
still an american and i'm like this culture is different Well,
I'm still the guy who grew up in the 70s and 80s where there wasn't technology like this.
(14:59):
And I'm living in this saying, I'm kind of glad I had the experience before
because I can still use it. So talk about how your game purpose helps people.
Yeah, that's, that's, that's, you made a lot of good points there.
And just to connect it back to the game for me it was important to really I
(15:19):
started engineering connection and looking at it from a perspective of okay what is connection and.
How do you have also, not only that, but how do you create breakthroughs in relationships?
And this can be personal breakthroughs. This can be breakthroughs with people
(15:40):
around you, where you actually find a way to be authentic, to grow.
A lot of people have had financial breakthroughs, believe it or not.
Like I was mentioning to you, how people have built very successful businesses.
And we actually keep track on these stories because one of my exciting projects
this year is to document that.
(16:02):
And since I've been in the film industry for a long time as a producer,
director, actor in the past, I have a lot of passion for documenting stories
and sharing them to the world.
So that's going to be exciting. And when it comes to that, when it comes to
any financial breakthrough, for example, it's all interconnected to internal.
Everything comes back to that. And all that comes back to getting the right
(16:26):
perspectives, getting the right prompts, getting the right questions in different
moments, and adding a gameplay element to it that makes it fun.
One, there's people out there that have told me to play the game for over five hours.
Like, tell me another game that, tell me the last time someone played Uno for five hours.
There's people out there who literally played the game over 500 times.
(16:47):
And I have this all in writing. And it said, they take it every place that they go.
And again, there's always super fans right now. I'm not saying everybody, this is the case.
But even at that case, the reason why is because it is able to supercharge a conversation.
It's able to give different perspectives on things. And so I'll give you one example here.
(17:13):
Let me grab a card for you, Jim. Okay. Okay.
So if we open the game here, all right, Jim, top or bottom?
I'll take the bottom. You'll take the bottom. So there's a question at the top
and a question at the bottom. Okay. Okay.
(17:33):
This sounds kind of racy at the top or bottom, but I'll go for the bottom today.
What do we got? Go for the bottom. Okay.
So what's one thing that you've been holding on to that it's time to let go
of? What would you say to that?
I, I really don't have a response. And, and the reason why is I've,
(17:59):
I've gone through a lot of things and I, I I've shed so much.
I have no regrets anymore.
I live a different life than many people. And there's, I'm not working on,
on anything that's holding me back.
And I know that sounds unbelievable, but that's my mindset.
Repeat the question again, and I'll see if I come up with something.
And that could be an answer, right? And that's actually the first time that
(18:21):
someone has answered in that way, believe it or not.
So the question is, what's one thing that you've been holding on to that it's
time to let go of or that you can let go of?
Either it's emotional, it's physical, anything.
I can tell you so many things I have let go of.
Tell me one thing that you have let go of that was really transformational.
Oh, close relationships that just had to be severed.
(18:45):
Family relationships, for instance. A lot of people say that they can't stop
talking to a parent or a sibling or an aunt and an uncle because they're family.
I got over that a while ago saying, you know what?
If they're not good for me and it's holding me back where I can't be good for
(19:05):
others, that's just a bad relationship.
And I'm not like most people. A lot of people are kind of hung up,
I believe, with, oh my gosh, what would happen if I got a divorce?
Worse what would people think um you know
my father i you know i have to still see him um because
he's my father right even though he he stresses
(19:26):
me out and and he says horrible things about me
i still need to go to those family functions my question is really
do you and i think a lot of
people aren't strong enough to
do what they need to do which is cut the cancer out of their lives and and and
you know what i'm talking about this happens all the time um i i've done a lot
(19:49):
of things in my life that other people wouldn't have done and the more i do that.
The easier it is and so i
find that especially with the younger generations
i keep going back to this i find that that there
seems to be a lot of excuses and a lot of well it's not that easy or or you
(20:17):
know my parents generation they didn't have to deal with this and there's you
know so many problems today in society there's always been problems my father was born in 1930,
he lived in a depression and a world war he's 93 still going strong no problems and.
(20:39):
So anyway, don't have a specific answer,
but I totally understand because at my age today,
I've, I've gotten to a point where I made a decision to just start carving crap out and I'm free. Yeah.
Yeah. And I mean, so you can see that you've been, you went through,
(21:03):
you call it the work, you know, the work you've been, you've gone through that.
And you can just imagine how many people need to do that work, need to let go of things.
A lot of people are looking to get something new or looking to change their
life by what can they gain, what can they do so that they can become,
not realizing first that you need to start letting go.
(21:25):
And that's the first stage of transcending anything. And most people won't.
They won't. They're afraid. They really are. They're afraid to let go of that
relationship or the job or anything.
And I think that's always been the case. I think most people,
(21:47):
well, I know this for a fact, studies say people are more afraid of a loss than the potential win.
In other words, someone rather not lose something than win something.
Yeah, definitely. They rather not lose a hundred dollars than win a lot. Yeah.
And people are afraid of loss and, and, and they're afraid of change.
People say all the time, I don't like change. You see, I love change.
(22:10):
Throw change at me, brother. I love change. I thrive on change.
And that's probably a big difference between me and most people where they're like,
oh i lost my job oh my
girlfriend broke up with me congratulations they're like
what do you mean i told people when they're going through a divorce
i say congratulations they're like what do you mean i
(22:32):
said this is a new beginning this is a blessing trust
me what doesn't kill you makes you stronger they're like this is rough i said
you know what i've been through a divorce and it wasn't my idea and it was rough
and it was the single biggest thing that happened to me in changed my life.
It wasn't the birth of my children.
(22:53):
It wasn't anything else. It was that event.
And honestly, Gray, I think that that's when it really changed for me. And I was 30 years old.
That's when it really changed for me where I'm like, if I can live through this, because it was brutal.
When I look back, it was pivotal. And I think everyone should have major hardship that doesn't kill them.
(23:21):
100% agree. And I love what you said there. It was brutal, but it was pivotal.
And that's what people need to realize.
And actually, I mean, that was one question, but you can imagine actually how
one question can actually have a powerful change in someone's people's lives.
Because yes, you see, most people don't want to change, but it's been incredible to watch.
A question, even just like that one that just came up, the amount of people
(23:43):
that have let go of things. Why?
Because of the power of awareness and collective support.
And so when you're playing Purpose, part of it is we're making a safe space here, guys.
You know if you're going to play this game it's it's fun you've had people playing it
you know right before a party everyone connects you
have it all kinds of different things right on a date but
then you also have people that play this game like on retreats and
(24:06):
ceremonies you know where it gets really deep and i was hearing a story of someone
who was playing it like a shaman was playing in ibiza in ibiza uh in spain right
and then they were doing it and there was a drum and people were saying top
or bottom you know get they got really deep and how transformational it was. It was cool to hear.
But the thing is that when you have that awareness of what is I actually have
(24:30):
to let go of, people think about it. They identify.
And through that identifying, it's I have to let go of this excuse.
It's time. I have to let go of this relationship that no longer serves me. It's time.
And when you have people around you that are like, it's time.
You can do this. Guess what?
You just get this newfound power
and energy in you. And there's There's a purpose to let it go, right?
(24:53):
And that's why through hundreds of questions and now, for me, this is one game.
We have 10 plus games that are launching this year before 2025.
We have four games that are launching in the next quarter, right?
And they're all different editions for different purposes.
We just partnered up with one of the biggest coffee houses here in British Columbia,
which they're going to be having the purpose game edition of that coffee house
(25:17):
at all 27 locations starting in three weeks.
And so there's a lot of expansion for us in terms of really connecting,
having these conversations and bringing into daily life a lot more.
And I believe that if you change the conversations around the world,
you can change the world.
And the reason for that is because all there is, Jim, it's a network of conversations,
(25:39):
all the way from politics to entertainment to tech. Everything is a network of conversations.
If you can elevate the conversations, you're elevating consciousness.
What people are speaking about.
Now, we're not just speaking about what happened here, and this drama here,
and what's the weather like here, or other surface level things.
We're actually stepping into different truths of each other.
(26:00):
And through those truths of each other, we start discovering our own truth.
And that's why it's powerful.
It sounds like in some instances, it could be a therapy session.
I can see people crying, you know, breaking down because, you know,
they, they have this inside themselves, whatever this is.
(26:21):
And the question is asked and they start down the path and I can see like 60,
90 seconds into it, then just like, but it could be very good for them to get it off their chest.
Yeah. Actually, the first time I played this game with a group of people,
and it was important for me to bring people that didn't all know each other.
(26:45):
And I'll tell you this off screen because it's a long story,
but it was a very powerful first time.
And at what period of time there
was, you know, it was really interesting how it all kind of happened.
And once people started playing for a while, someone at the table said,
Gray, this game can normalize therapy between friends.
(27:10):
And that happened as there was tears, there was laughs, there was hugs,
and all of this in the time where people were the most disconnected ever,
because there was lockdowns in Montreal and many different other places, right?
And so it just happened to be really powerful for me to see.
And when I started seeing kind of like the impact that that had there,
that's when I knew I had to, and they said, you have to make this, right?
(27:33):
And so it's interesting to see what is it, that was a moment for me,
you know, especially in the beginning.
And so it is, and then since then we've had hundreds of therapists that have
actually used the cards, you know, in different moments.
My own aunt in Mexico is a therapist and she was telling me the other day how
she uses it before every client.
She just picks up a card and asks top or bottom. them. And then from there,
(27:54):
it gets the conversation going.
And she says how it opens up compared to when she's just going straight into it. It allows them to be.
And the thing about that too, Jim, is that we're bringing it back to play.
And once we are playing, that's bringing us back to our highest level of authenticity and of presence.
A lot of people are not present, especially in this day and age.
(28:16):
You know that, right? And how important it is to be present.
So I see purpose, And especially our future games to be an opportunity to really
anchor people back to the present because I've seen it happen.
People are not on their phones with a plain purpose. Nobody is,
which is so rare, right? Well, yeah, you can't. You have to unplug.
Otherwise, it doesn't work. You have to unplug. Yeah. Yeah. I hope so.
(28:37):
Yeah. I mean, you know, I find myself on my electronic devices all the time.
But in all fairness, I really use the technology predominantly for business.
But there's some...
(28:58):
Educational things. Like I get news and so forth from my device,
but I think a difference between someone from my generation and my children's
generation is I'm not doing a lot of connecting with people my age.
Like my daughter, she'll spend all day, you know, selfies and Tik TOK and talking
(29:24):
to people, you know, communicating that way where,
I, I won't, if it's my friend's birthday, I'll probably send them a text and call them.
But then again, I'm from a different generation. And so I don't,
I can't totally understand what some people are going through.
(29:47):
Um, I've been happily married for 26 years. My wife and I spent a lot of time together.
Um, I don't have a lot of friends. I know a lot of people, but most men,
Men my age don't have like, you know, 50 or 100 friends anymore like we did in high school.
We have, you know, five or six people who we know would show up to our funeral.
And so you always know it's a good friend that show up to your funeral.
(30:11):
And I just I just find it fascinating today how disconnected people are in an ultra connected world.
World um i wish we could talk about this for hours but we can't but here's what
i want to promise the people who are listening and watching this i'm going to
put your contact information in the show notes and also i want to put a link
(30:36):
in there so people can order the game.
Yeah, I would love to, you know,
for me, when it comes to it, what gets me the most excited is to hear any stories
and see how we can be of further service because the game is the starting point for the Purpose brand.
(30:59):
And we can talk about that in the future more, but we have a lot of exciting
projects that are really transformational, but they wouldn't have been possible
if it wasn't for the game. And
so anyone who's listening, who wants to experience that, give it a try.
I can guarantee you that you will have a profound experience.
And my challenge to you is to play it 10 times and tell me how you have transformed,
(31:23):
how you have seen things in a different way, how you have listened to somebody
that was maybe around you, but you haven't actually looked at them or appreciated them fully.
Holy, I have a friend, 25 plus years, I played this game with.
The first time we looked at each other and we said, wow, I've known this person
for 25 years since I'm super young.
And it's crazy. I played this game with my own mother, right?
(31:43):
And I realized all these different things that I had no idea.
And so how powerful is that, right? And so, yeah, I would love to hear your
stories and see how else me or my team can be of service.
Yeah. Have a purpose party and give feedback to Gray. Ray.
Grey, thank you so much for joining me today here on the podcast. Much appreciated.
(32:04):
Thank you, Jim. Really appreciate it, man.
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