Bitcoin, Art, and Freedom with Madex | Bitcoin Infinity Show #148 - The Bitcoin Infinity Show

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Happy that
Bitcoin is at this point
where like
this is an inevitable future.
It is coming no matter what.
No one can get
in the way of it.
And I think
the next couple of years
are going to be
really exciting
because we're going to see
that really large actors
start to use Bitcoin
for the purposes
it was designed for,
and the same reason
that all of us use

(00:20):
it as individuals
corruption will
never get rid of.
But at least we can level
the playing field
and make it a fair game.
And you know,
all the horrible things about
mankind will always exist.
But with Bitcoin
at least
the ledger is fair
and trustworthy,
so no one can
cheat from that,
which is kind of
the core of obviously
everything we have.

(00:41):
We fix things by making them
less profitable, basically,
which you make violence
and treating people
less, less profitable
because it's harder
to take their stuff
when it's in the
head of the victim.
Madex.
Welcome to the
Bitcoin Infinity Show.
Thank you for joining us.

(01:02):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
It's great
to have you here, man.
It's not not very often
we have artists, here.
But you're
not only an artist,
you're also like,
you were,
a founder of Bull Bitcoin
back in the day,
if I'm not mistaken.
Or at least in the very
first wave of that company.
Is that right?

(01:25):
Yeah, yeah.
Bull Bitcoin was Dave
Bradley and, Francis Poole
at bringing
together their resources
and doing
kind of a brand relaunch.
And so I
was responsible for,
helping
launch the brand and create
the bull
created the bull
Bitcoin brand over the last,

(01:46):
years.
And, I say that like Francis
and,
the whole team at bull,
they've built, like,
a Ferrari engine.
And, my role is that,
I say
the top of the engine
has to be red,
say,
Ferrari across it,
and there has to
be glass over it
so you can look in
and see the engine.
So I just do do design work.

(02:09):
And, fortunately,
I'm very good at design.
Unfortunately bull
Bitcoin is extremely,
that engineering
and an extremely good
bitcoin company.
So,
the two,
skills just went together
really well.
And
yeah, I mean, it's it's
one of the most based bitcoin
companies on earth
in my opinion.

(02:30):
Like it has always been
always say to them
I mean yeah.
Can you name a more based
Bitcoin company.
Yeah that would be
Lemon Escape
Media wouldn't it.
To look like that. Yeah.
Other than that like
but I know I shouldn't
say even say that.
I mean we're
you're way ahead.
The the logo is the,

(02:52):
the coolest logo
in Bitcoin, too.
I think it's,
so you had done
fantastic work there.
And, yeah, I think we
we met back in 2019, in Riga
for the first time,
when the whole bitcoin bull
bitcoin team
was, was over in Riga.
This is like the second
both economy
bad year ever, right?
I think so.

(03:13):
And, yeah,
I just had to go that year
because I was so envious of,
after the 2018 thing and I.
Yeah, I saw people online,
so it just had to be there.
Turns out bull
Bitcoin sent
the whole team from Canada.
Yeah.
So how did you
find that conference?
What do you remember
most from it?
That was

(03:34):
I mean, it was awesome.
What was really cool
about that was,
I guess
around that time, like,
maximalism was super early
and,
for Baltic Honey
Badger to be Bitcoin
only at that time.
And,
really pushing back
against keeping
all the kind of scammy
crypto crap out,
was pretty great.

(03:54):
And,
I mean, pretty much
the entire attendance
at in Riga,
it's just really awesome
to see everyone's journey
since that point and how,
everything has grown
and, and expanded
and the world
that we're kind of
in now and,
I think that
that's like that,

(04:15):
that was the coolest
part of it for me.
Bull Bitcoin hosted,
a dinner and a party,
in the downtown.
That was in this
sort of medieval, basement.
And it was, really
pretty amazing dinner.
Pretty much
the, the top,

(04:36):
top minds of Bitcoin.
We're all there
at that time.
And, yeah, it was
it was just
it was
I think the beginning
of maximalism.
Shortly after,
Satan's book was out and,
we were all kind
of united and,
with, with the same idea as,

(04:56):
you know,
Bitcoin is money
and everything else is crap.
So now I remember in,
first time
I met Saifuddin
there to,
like so many is
so many people that,
I have exactly the same,
same memory of it
because, like,
it's been so great to watch
everyone's journey.
I mean, everyone
in both bitcoin,
Ben Sessions journey, Gigi,

(05:19):
Giacomo, Max Hildebrand,
there's a safety in himself.
Like, just seeing
how how things have
developed sense for
for all of these characters
that were mostly known
only by the in-group
on Twitter at the time
and has
since then, like, had
these wonderful journeys
in different directions.
And it's, yeah, it brings

(05:41):
brings back
a lot of memories,
that thing.
And I remember
also, like you say,
it was the birth
of maximalism.
And a specific thing
I remember about that
conference is
that people were calling out
chip corners,
as you say,
except for,
Andreas Antonopoulos.
Just written the
that Ethereum book
or was about to write
that Ethereum book,

(06:02):
but every single attendee
at the conference were orange
pilled by Andreas
Antonopoulos,
so no one dared
to call him out for
the Ethereum bullshit.
That happened a
little later, but.
But I found that interesting.
Yeah. So.
So
what has your journey
been since then?
Like, can you give us a Tldr?

(06:23):
Or maybe we should start
from the beginning here,
and give us the Tldr
on Madex Like what?
I know you and Luke
are from
similar, similar
region of Camp Canada.
I won't say
too much more than that, but
what's your journey?
Just just
a short version of it.
Yeah, I guess short version.

(06:45):
I was in school looking to,
looking at building,
like, banking
apps for automated
sort of savings platforms.
And,
that kind of brought me
to looking at Bitcoin.
And then over the years,
found myself
I like
was focusing on

(07:06):
what would be my best skill,
which was art.
And,
I was eventually able
to find sort of a merger
between the two.
And Bitcoin really gave
a message to the art
and the creative design work
I was doing,
and really sort
of made it matter.
I think before is just

(07:27):
kind of like
I was in pursuit of sort
of design excellence,
but it didn't have,
a political backing
or a philosophical
backing, really.
And so,
along that journey,
Bitcoin and art
emerged,
and then that kind of
put me
in the perfect position
when Bitcoin

(07:47):
was being created to
come on and, really be able
to exercise my skills
and, and, and develop
something new.
And I kind of always knew
I could create something,
visually iconic and having
meaningful philosophy

(08:08):
to, to back that,
just made it
that much better.
So, and since,
since Riga,
I've just been working on
that same sort of goal,
building out the art project,
sending Bitcoin signal,
doing installations,
showing up and events and,

(08:29):
also pushing bull bitcoin
and ensuring that
bull bitcoin is well known
and well recognized
and that the
the talent
that we have
in the bitcoin space
and the industry
sort of standard
setting technology
that we're developing
at bull gets,
shown and promoted
and in a way

(08:50):
that
is as cool as the tech is.
And yeah,
I've been busy working away
on that since, since,
since Riga.
And I think it's
going, really well.
Well, bulls
expanding internationally.
We're live in Europe now,
so we can onboard Europeans

(09:10):
to the bull
bitcoin experience,
which is extremely exciting.
And we've been running
in Costa Rica
for quite a while now and,
have a really good
sort of grassroots
Bitcoin economy
growing up there.
And I think all of that
was just made possible
by the,
combination
of just an excellent

(09:31):
an excellent product,
extremely good engineering,
really understanding
Bitcoin,
the needs of bitcoiners,
and,
yeah, it's it's
just going extremely well.
And then at the same time,
I'm pushing
mate X in order
to just bring more
talent into the space
and bring

(09:51):
more creatives
into the space.
And I think that the,
after the, technology being
being as good
as it
possibly can be
and the resources available
to us, as good as it can be,
the next thing we need
is like very big signal
into the world.
And,

(10:12):
to make Bitcoin
as attractive as possible
to all the
talent that's out there.
Yeah, it's super cool.
And,
you know,
back to a conference
that you, you designed,
like, had
at least half of,
BTC Prague this year, right?
Or the bar there and, like,

(10:32):
you were some,
some type of lead designer.
How did that
whole thing happen?
Yeah, that
that was
the coolest thing
I've ever done.
I think in terms of
being able to build a space.
And,
I was just, approached by,
the brothers running,
running the event, and,

(10:55):
they had this space
and they didn't really quite
know what to do with it.
And,
they wanted to have art
play a role in the event.
And so
I got some pretty kind of
free, free rein to just
do some create creation. And,

(11:15):
I was able to pull
together like a really,
I think, an
extremely awesome space.
The only mistake I made was
I didn't have my own film
crew there
to really be
able to capture it.
I knew that BTC
Prague had like a huge film
team there,
so I didn't silly,
I didn't think to
bring kind of my own guy
and then,

(11:35):
obviously
I didn't realize,
like the scale of the event
and how giant it was.
So I'm planning
to be
doing it again, in June
this year for 2025,
and it should be
on the same level.
And, I'm, I'm
definitely going to be
bringing a film crew in

(11:56):
for anyone who can't make it,
but I strongly advise
getting a ticket
to BTC Prague
to see what I'm up to,
because I think
it'll be pretty cool.
And already last year
it was awesome.
Specifically the neons.
I was really happy with.
I got, giant
eight eight by four foot
neon sign

(12:17):
that just had,
the Ayn Rand, quote on it
that I swear by my life
and my love of it, quote.
And, a couple other
light installations
that were really cool.
And, yeah,
it was really great
to get that kind
of support from BTC
Prague because,
many

(12:38):
they are just
the biggest bitcoin
only kind
of maximalist conference.
And they have the resources
to be able
to make like
really cool ideas
come into existence.
Versus
I guess,
the next closest thing
to them is,
Bitcoin magazine,
which kind of cares about

(13:00):
shilling crap
and that
they don't really have
the same sort
of ethical standards
that that
BTC Prague
does for the event.
And also just the quality
standards like BTC
Prague was
the highest quality event
that I've ever been to.
Even
just seeing as like for,
for the VIP ticket
holders, there was like
Michelin star food.

(13:20):
It was excellent.
Like everything
that was available
was excellent.
And I think like
the quality of the content
and the signal there was it
extremely good.
So I was really happy
to be a part of it
and kind of get their vote
of confidence to
go in and design some stuff.
And I think
it turned out really, really
beautifully, really awesome.

(13:41):
Now I, I totally agree.
I mean, the,
the way we usually rate
Bitcoin conferences is by the
that the most
important metric
is the signal to noise ratio.
And the BTC Prague
is almost 100% signal.
And that goes for,
I would say that
the European conferences
are ahead
of the American ones
and the Asian ones
here for sure,

(14:01):
like with Atlantis,
was of course
high signal to noise.
The BTC held will be too.
And you know,
we use code infinity
for whatever
percent off on all of them.
And come to BTC Prague
and see us three
and the bunch of other dorks.
Anyway.
Yeah.
Where are we?
Luke, help me out here.
I thought of the joke

(14:21):
and not the
anything else reading,
that happens.
You know, I mean,
I think Prague actually was.
It was our
first time meeting, but but,
the first time
I consciously came across
your work
was when we were on Madeira.
I'd seen the
the logo before
a bunch, and I and
I, I'd never
actually heard the story of,
like, the, the logo

(14:42):
and the branding
and everything.
So, you know,
getting into the space,
you don't know
everyone immediately
kind of thing.
But I saw the,
the, the logo and, and,
what struck me about
that was that this is the
this is the manas rune for,
for those into Old Norse
and runes
and stuff like that.
Surprisingly,
out of the two of us,

(15:02):
me and Canada,
I'm more into that
than he is.
And, and and it was Eric
who was wearing the,
wearing the, the hoodie
and I said,
hey, nice, nice settings.
Like, yeah, man
made X made x. Okay, cool.
So so that was,
that was the first thing.
And you were supposed
to be on Madeira. Right?
But it just didn't,
it didn't work for reasons.

(15:23):
Something like that.
Yeah.
I, I broke
I broke my foot
skiing like two days
before
I was supposed to leave
and had to have,
like, a major surgery on it,
so I wasn't able to make it.
Yeah,
those Himalayas are really,
really dangerous.
You shouldn't do that.
Devastating. Yeah.
That's, That was a bad joke.

(15:44):
No, no.
So, so, like
like then
and then I got the story
that, that you put this
all together, but,
I think one of the,
one of the first things
I was interested in is like,
what, what what was this?
The inspiration for this
being your logo.
This, this rune
kind of thing here.
And how does that tie
into kind

(16:04):
of your identity
as an artist?
Well, I think it's the
the main,
the main thing
that our whole civilization
has gotten away
from is like,
the power
and the importance
of the individual,
and the man, as is
a symbol of the individual.

(16:26):
The self.
And so it was the
perfect thing to use
to kind of anchor
all the sort
of objectivist ideologies
and the capitalist ideologies
and everything
that I kind of stand for to,
where in contrast to,
you know,
every everyone else who's,

(16:47):
who's,
parading around the
hammer and sickle and,
is focused
on all that sort
of collectivist crap,
especially in the art world.
So I wanted a symbol
that just really
that already
had historic meeting
and was
instantly recognizable,
and that already aligned

(17:07):
with everything
that I was
in pursuit of broadcasting.
And the man as symbol
just eat organically
from the universe.
Just happened
to kind of line up
perfectly
with the brand made X,
which had existed
kind of long before
I decided to use the man as,
so I discovered

(17:27):
it just even in
playing around,
because I was trying
to figure out,
like a seagull.
And then right away
I drew it out and knew
it was the Viking ruined.
And then I had sort of
this profound
realization of the kind
of overlaying ideas.
So it was perfect.
And,
I think
wherever the man is,

(17:48):
is naturally,
for the most part,
you know,
lots of people
try and corrupt
and co-opt symbols,
but, there, there
is that sort of
it does still kind of carry
its ancient meaning.
And so my goal is, mate
X is just to kind of add
and contribute to that
and then also
apply a lot of the,

(18:09):
make, make
the symbol synonymous
with all the ideas
that we really push forward
in Bitcoin,
and that are
well explained and,
and well described
and well thought through
in a lot of, Rand's texts.
Oh, I absolutely love it.
And, well, my,

(18:29):
my exposure to kind of this,
this cultural side of things,
maybe this
is more of a story
for another time, but but,
but let's like,
let's just say that
that I've also been kind of
into this, this, exploring,
these older symbols
and older traditions
and things like that.
And.
Yeah, I mean,

(18:50):
I just loved seeing its usage
and then hearing you explain
it, it's just right on, man.
Like like, it's exactly the,
it's such a good symbol
for what it is.
And thankfully, it's it's
not one of these, more badly
co-opted symbols
in the sort of Viking Norse

(19:12):
sphere, like the S symbol
is, is,
much more associated
with fascism, for example.
But, no.
So, so basically
it's it's like this, this,
synchronicity, this, this
free symbol.
It doesn't have any usage yet
in the community,
but it means exactly
what you're saying

(19:32):
it means already.
And, now
I just love,
seeing it out there and,
the the
the way
you you
put your work together
as well,
these compositions,
they, they,
they draw a lot of
different kinds of symbolism.
And, and I can always tell
when something is a made ex.

(19:53):
But but it's not like,
it's not like,
you only make the same
kind of thing.
Like, it's, it's
not so much like fractal
who makes these amazing
pieces, obviously,
that every single
one of them is amazing.
But he's he said himself
that he makes
a lot of circles.
And you can kind of tell
that it's that it's,
that it is.
It's his work.
So, like,
what's your creative process

(20:15):
in, in,
putting your art together?
Yeah.
Well, the,
the whole
concept that I have behind
the project
is that it's sort of,
emergent art.
It was originally inspired
by seeing kind
of all these, billboards
as I was traveling

(20:35):
when I was younger that had,
how they operate
is what we pay.
So the different ad posters
will go up on them
with wheat paste.
And so
they're glued to the wall
and then the billboard area
and then they're ripped down,
and then a new ad goes up
and kind of over time

(20:56):
when these billboards
get like quite old,
there's sort of
like a history
of everything
that's ever been on them.
That just kind of
naturally emerges
out of, out of,
like the constant cycling
of the wheat paste.
Ad so I kind of that became
sort of the basis
and I'm, I was trying to

(21:16):
sort of recreate
that process,
but kind of more controlled.
And so everything has tons
and it's all extremely
layered work.
And there's kind of
I try to keep
everything kind of in line
in some way,
but then also have like,
just random noise,

(21:39):
in them as well.
And I like
for the background,
a lot of the text
and stuff
is all like in texts
that I think are important.
And that should be read.
And it's sort of kind of it's
like, crumb trail of, bit

(21:59):
bits and pieces
that need to be assembled
to kind of become,
someone who
can, can really start
to understand
why hard money is important
and why an incorruptible
money system is is important.
And why, you know, trade
and the effort,
the effort and work is the,

(22:21):
the most important thing
that you can kind of focus
on, to derive meaning.
And so,
all the elements are just.
I want to make it so that,
every single piece
that's out
there is kind of
an investigation,
and sort of a reflection on

(22:44):
the past,
the kind of what's available,
what's going on.
And then also kind of a
look into the future and,
I guess I
hope and I hope for,
for what's coming and,
and what can be changed
in this world
to stop the sort of mass
corruption and mass
mass theft.

(23:05):
I mean, corruption
will never get rid of,
but at least we can
level the playing field
and make it a fair game.
And, you know,
all the horrible things about
mankind will always exist.
But, with Bitcoin, at least
the ledger is fair
and trustworthy.
So no one can cheat from
from that,
which is kind of the core

(23:26):
of obviously
everything we have.
So, yeah.
The answer is that
no, the way
we we fix things
by making them
less profitable,
basically,
which you make violence and
and voting people
less, less profitable
because it's harder
to take their stuff

(23:46):
when it's in their heads.
The in the victims, in
the head of the victim.
Mr..
Hello there.
And here's
how to use code infinity
like everywhere
on the internet.
For instance
for the MicroStrategy Bitcoin
for corporations, conference
for BTC, frog for BTC.

(24:06):
Hell,
we come to Helsinki in August
and make sure T goes
stamp seed
with your three fantastic
little C plates.
You can get the infinite,
the over 21 million, this,
special plates.
But we collaborated
with them and, making,
use code Infinity
for a discount.

(24:27):
Same thing goes for
our favorite
hardware, Walmart B big box.
So to the spirit
box, dot Swiss.
So get that,
the Bitcoin advisor
for bitcoin inheritance
planning and so on
and so forth.
And the general advice
Bitcoin advisor.com.
And make sure
to like subscribe
and brush your feet

(24:48):
and all that
for the Bitcoin infinity.com
and get some stuff
and some books.
Great to have you here.
I love this
Objectivism angle.
And,
as you probably know,
I'm a deep
into Austrian economics and,
mazes.
Many people don't like mazes
because they think it's
too tedious

(25:08):
to read human action.
I read it three times,
and I love the writing in it.
I love these long,
complicated German
sounding sentences.
And,
one thing about him
and Objectivism and I
in Rand that I didn't know
before,
before deep diving into it,
is that they were friends.
They have
a similar background.
They both came from fled.

(25:30):
Fled the Russian invasion
or the Soviet invasion,
basically,
and fled to America
and got to know each other
over there.
And
of course,
Objectivism is
very much the philosophical,
branch of, of,

(25:51):
praxis,
logical thought and,
and Austrian economics,
basically every,
every man for himself
leads to more ethical results
in the end.
As long as you don't, like,
intrude on other people's,
property and,
it's, it's,

(26:12):
severely underappreciated,
I think.
And people should,
should look more into old,
Ayn Rand interviews and,
the into Objectivism
in general
because it's somewhat
forgotten
and it's such a great,
a great framework.
And so,
so what's, what's your
what's your take
on objectivism and like,
what's

(26:32):
how would you explain it
to people?
Yeah,
I think it's
just so important for people
to get into into the texts.
And like
I've had a lot of comments
because every
single piece of art
has like the John Galt quote
on the back of it,
and I broadcast
that quite heavily.
And so I've had some kind of
like, hardcore Rand people,

(26:54):
be upset with me
about, like, using it.
And I'm
what I've been trying to
communicate is like,
this is about broadcasting
the signal and about making,
the work that she made
and the work of these other,
Austrian economics and,
all these people
who have
contributed literature

(27:15):
that is extremely useful
in sort of deriving,
happiness from, from,
the sort of
their pure essence of life,
and making all that stuff
really fucking cool
and really interesting
and really
like bringing people into to
read it
and then sort of

(27:36):
make their own conclusions,
which I think unless
you're like, completely,
totally washed by,
you know,
some of the
institutions out there
or some of the
totally radical, let's,
let's take everyone
else's stuff
sort of idea ideologies.

(27:56):
I think it all it's
just, like, very natural.
And in line
with human nature.
And if you don't
have that, like,
parasitic programing
slammed into you
from from some school
somewhere,
that you'll,
you'll take to it
very, very easily.

(28:16):
So I,
I want to get as much of the,
the lines and the messages
and the pieces
out as possible.
And I think that
what is an amazing way to do
that is to have it
like in the art
and then have
the art be cool,
and then kind of the whole
the companies and the
and and the works around it

(28:38):
be cool
and just make the whole thing
like very attractive
to get into.
And then, you know, my, I
shortest form
take on Objectivism
is that like,
I don't think
there's any argument
on like,
like what's beautiful or not.
I think that no matter
who or who you are

(28:59):
or where you come from,
you can
you'll admire
a cathedral over a
just solid,
soulless,
soul crushing
sort of concrete
monoliths building.
I think that that's just
it doesn't matter
what your background
is, you'll you'll appreciate,
you know, that that the

(29:21):
that the beauty is objective
and it's not,
I think that if,
if something requires
a long
write up explaining, like,
why it's good
art, that it's
probably not good art,
or even worse, existing.
Really?
You mean so.
So that paper
telling you how to.

(29:41):
How you can.
How you are allowed
to replace the banana
with new duct tape when
when it goes moldy?
Doesn't explain why the
banana duct taped to a wall
is is beautiful.
Yeah.
That's not what
I mean.
No, it's.
You made a little video about

(30:02):
being uncompromising in
in doing your art
that I saw that
I really liked
about about
these moral virtues.
Like, according to Ayn Rand,
like the
her Tldr on Objectivism is,
the concept of man as, heroic
being with his own
happiness,
as the moral purpose
of his life

(30:22):
with productive achievement
as his noblest activity
and reason
as his only absolute,
which which I like.
I, or I even love.
I think it's
it's a natural evolution of,
you know,
stoicism
and Marcus Aurelius.
It's very much,
very much in the same vein,

(30:43):
as so many of these,
philosophers have,
thought before,
before, Rand.
But but that little video
is really,
like, encapsulate the whole
the whole ethics of the thing
and the whole,
like, never compromise
where they are. Integrity.
Never compromise

(31:03):
with your excellence.
If you can be excellent,
be excellent. Like.
Except if you can be Batman
and be Batman.
But, you know,
I liked it a lot.
Yeah, I think that it's.
The whole fiat
system is set up in this way
that doesn't,
reward
the contributors properly.

(31:26):
And so
it, like, even just something
simple like,
How money is supposed to
work is the people
who are the most productive
and contributing
the most to civilization
become the wealthiest.
And that's pretty like
that's pretty hardwired
into us. I think that's just

(31:48):
it's almost,
you know, in our instinct,
to understand that.
And right now
that system is broken.
And,
people
who are
the least productive,
have found a way to
take the wealth from,
from producers
and from,

(32:08):
from the actual
kind of minds
that drive the world.
And so now we have
this sort of backwards,
that, this backwards thing
where we have, like, respect
for the investment banker,
but we don't have
respect for like,
the guy who runs
a plumbing company,
you know,
or a framing company
or something like that.

(32:29):
Even though,
like the,
the actual
contribution on one side
is much greater.
And
like
all of that stuff being,
being reset and, and,
brought,
brought back
to where it should be will
then like put

(32:50):
all these extremely talented
people and talented creators
and talented designers
and builders
and engineers
kind of into
a much better place
for earnings. Right?
But currently, like it's
just not well respected.
And so really,
if you look at the world
right now, the fastest,

(33:10):
the fastest way to get ahead
and really like
in, in some in
some industries,
in some cases,
the only way to get ahead
is to, use treachery
and to be unethical
and to use deceit
and to
really kind of
do things in a wrong way.

(33:30):
And, that is
that is very tempting,
I think, to people who
especially when
on top of that, you have like
the currencies are failing
and just the way of everyday
life and surviving
becoming heavier and heavier
and it being harder
and harder to
to get ahead by being
honest and being true.

(33:51):
So
many people are driven
into doing
like just stuff that I don't,
I don't think is right.
And, you know, thankfully
Bitcoin exists for,
you know,
some of us to kind of
help us along
and keep things strong.

(34:12):
Like, I mean, like if I,
if I,
if I wanted to be
a thousand times wealthier,
I could have easily
gone into,
you know, doing NFT crap
or doing
any kind of crypto
project crap
or working on this
or working on.
But like,
all of that stuff is just,
okay.
Yeah, you get the money,
but you lose something
that I think is

(34:32):
far more important,
which is your kind of ability
to really
look at yourself and,
you know, you,
you lose, like,
I guess we would say,
like your soul.
You definitely. I think
you can have a, a front
on to everyone in the world.
And you can lie
to everyone in the world,

(34:53):
but you can't
lie to yourself.
And I think
as soon as you cross
some of those kind
of ethical
lines that your entire life
just becomes, a lie.
And I don't really think
that there's
a way to turn back
after that because,
you know, you'll kind of
you'll have
always kind
of broken in that moment.

(35:15):
But on the other side,
being being just patient
and really
respecting the skills
that you have.
And like,
you know,
we have to be more creative
and more cunning
as people with talent
to be able to find a way
to earn a living
and find a way to like,
you know,
to find people
who appreciate our work.
It's much more difficult.

(35:37):
But I think in the end,
it has longevity.
It'll last,
like, your whole lifetime,
to do to do the hard work.
And you'll kind of
you'll always
be able to know that,
you know,
you acted,
in, in the
spirit of goodness,
first verse,

(35:57):
I think
the overwhelming
evil out there,
you know, I love that
it resonates so
hard, like, with, the way
we do things as well.
But it also leads me into
as sort of a devil's
advocate thing here that,
something I'd love
to pick your brain on.
And this is,
we wrote
a couple of paragraphs,
at least,
if not a whole chapter
about this in the

(36:17):
in the book about,
proof of work
being a little bit
being a bit too close,
like labor theory or value.
Like if,
if you're just doing work
for work's sake
and the market
didn't ask you to do that
work, then you're
basically just
just doing whatever the
Soviet Union were doing.
I mean, I think,

(36:41):
proof of work
should be rebranded
into proof
of results because,
because that's really
what counts.
I mean,
not even in Bitcoin
mining is proof of work.
Actual proof of work.
It's just proof
that you
found the correct touch.
So it's it's the result
that matters.
The work is implied
by the result.
But like, proof.

(37:01):
I don't
I don't think it is proof.
I think it is a hint of work.
Maybe,
but it's proof of results.
And I think that's
the way to approach,
approach,
creative projects as well.
Like,
I respect a lot of artists
that,
both musicians and actors
and, and the other author,

(37:23):
artists as well,
that don't necessarily seem
to do a lot of,
to put in a lot of effort,
but their output
is excellent.
Like, I,
I can love an actor
like Bill Murray,
for instance,
who made a career out of
just looking like
he doesn't give a
fuck all the time. And, or
some bands

(37:43):
and, songwriters
that seem to be the same.
Let's just have this, like,
talent for
for finding interesting
melodies and stuff.
And they don't seem
to really do that much work.
It's just comes to them
naturally.
I think it's it's
hard to know, though,
how much work
that actually went into it.
You could

(38:04):
you could argue that a whole
that your whole life is work.
If you
if you have the
correct mindset
and if you learn from
all of your experiences
to really take
things to heart.
But there's there is,
there's something there
between proof of work
and proof for results.
Would you agree?
Yeah.
I mean, it's
it

(38:25):
the market is is the truth
and the price is the truth.
So and we just
unfortunately have
like a very distorted,
market signal right now.
So you can't be it
the pursuit of excellence
still has to be in line

(38:46):
with, with,
with what you said,
like a result, of some kind.
And but I think that,
you know, there's
probably a place
for a lot of things that,
it it's.
Yeah, it's, interesting site.

(39:06):
I mean.
Yeah.
Just because
you put a lot of time
and energy into something
and just because something.
It's one of the questions
that frustrates me
a lot is with my,
being doing
art stuff,
is that I'll
present something
and then someone
will ask like,

(39:26):
oh my gosh, like,
how long did this
take to make?
As if that's relevant to
to what it is?
You know, or
like what was the
technical step by step
process to create this?
And it's kind of,
like I
get the questions,
but to me it's
just like
completely irrelevant.

(39:47):
And like,
what really matters is like
how good the work is.
And I'm willing to use
any means necessary
to make the work as good
a, as good as possible.
Any, any technique,
you know, any,
artisans, any, you know,
experts, any,

(40:08):
any bits of text,
like any bit of,
information, any.
I'm, I'm well,
like Maddox
in the unfortunately
in the way
that it's come together,
it's like
kind of all
very around me right now
because that's
how it's like bootstrapped.
But really
what I'm trying to create
is just a,
like, art production house

(40:29):
that just creates
like insanely high quality,
really amazing stuff,
with the basis being art
and then also
kind of getting into,
other like products
and things,
things I care about and,
you know, doing that takes
insane amounts of time
and insane amounts of people
and sometimes no time

(40:49):
and no people.
And,
you know,
the results on either end
can sometimes be really good.
And, you know,
I can spend
no time on something,
and it only be me,
and it can come out shit,
or it can come out amazing.
Or I can spend, you know,
three months
doing something
with a team of,
like, six
other people,
and it can come out amazing

(41:10):
or it can come out shit.
So you I, I,
I think it's just
having taste and having,
I yeah, I guess, I guess
that's just like,
who will
who will succeed
and kind of who will,
you know,
not like the market
will really
ultimately decide.

(41:31):
But I guess
what I, I guess
the point is not
to take shortcuts,
more than to,
like, work on something
that doesn't matter
or is crap.
It's just like.
It's like I've had success
from kind of the beginning
of what I'm doing
because I think I'm
a great designer
and it resonates quite well.
And then as a result

(41:52):
of that success and doing
well in the first place,
a lot of like
extreme shortcut
opportunities
were offered to me,
you know,
to be a part of
like scam projects
or crypto this or crypto
that or whatever
other bullshit.
And, you know,
those would have been
like shortcuts
in, in financial realm,
but it would have

(42:14):
totally fucked up
the work because
it would have
just gutted that kind of soul
and meaning.
And really what I think
is the value, it's like the
the real value,
like the reason matrix art
is going
to really fucking matter
in 50 years versus
all the other artists
that are out there.

(42:34):
Is that it's
it's tied to
one of the most
important times
in all of history
where we're going
through this transition
and this shift,
and where
the wealth is moving
for, for the first time ever.
And
I'm sort of
coloring over that,

(42:55):
that change in history.
And that's what gives it
I think really, it's
ultimate like
meaning
and make makes it really,
that much better versus
kind of,
stuff that maybe
like technically
extremely good,
but just kind of exists
and doesn't really have like

(43:16):
an anchor behind it.
You know,
there's like a huge element
in, of humanity and,
and what I'm trying
to push into the world
with made X,
that I think
is timeless and
will continue to resonate.
Yeah.
And but
you're absolutely right.

(43:37):
No, I just find creativity
a very interesting concept.
And,
for me and for others,
I know it's a
it's a very strange beast
to try to tame
because it's it's,
you never know
when stuff
is going to hit you.
And,
I know
Lucas in this first time
I went around,
like, talking about.

(43:58):
I wanted to
write the book for,
like, two years before.
Before I started writing one.
And then I write one.
It takes a month, like,
or two.
I have the basis of it.
Just pours out of me
when it comes.
But before that, it's
totally fucking
writer's block.
And I spend time, like,
daydreaming
and walking around
and trying to come
up with stuff.
And I used to think of
that as me being lazy,

(44:19):
but but now.
But I've realized
that it's not being lazy.
It's it's
like part of the process.
It has to be part of
the process.
And sometimes
it just hits you.
And that's
the strange thing
about creativity.
And,
a lot of things
have been said
and written about it

(44:39):
like,
the best,
the best way to be creative
is to,
I think this
the John Cleese's
take on it, that you
you cannot be interrupted.
But you also need to know
that you are not
going to be interrupted.
And I like that a lot.
And I guess that's why
I mostly work
in the mornings,
because I know
my family won't be up,
so I won't be interrupted.

(45:01):
Like the risk of
being interrupted
is just not there.
Because if you know
that you have,
you're going to
get a notification soon
or you're going to someone's
going to
try to grab your attention,
then it's
much harder to focus.
Like you need that much space
to to actually
do something creative
if you're working
alone, especially and I mean

(45:21):
other, other thoughts
around it like,
like you said,
some of the works
take a short amount of time
and some take a long
amount of time,
and that doesn't
really matter
for the end product.
It's, a way to look at that.
It's like
it's the fish
that's beautiful,
not the fisherman.
So you,
But what you're doing
is by by being productive

(45:43):
as a creative.
Is that you're going fishing,
and occasionally
you'll stumble
on a beautiful fish,
and you never know when,
you could
you can increase your odds,
but you can't really control
what kind of fish you're
you're going to get.
Does that make any sense
to you?
Yeah.
No, it definitely does.
Like, I think that by
I mean,

(46:07):
I think that
all the best work
that I've done
has been some sort of,
like, divine alignment.

And it's like the whole
there's all there's
so much information
out there.
And then to kind of find
the things that go together

(46:27):
in the way,
in a way
that is really powerful
and really works.
Well, it it's
it comes,
it comes to you
in waves and in moments.
And it it's
you can't just, something
that has been difficult
to explain to

(46:49):
people around me
is that you can't
just, like,
sit down and then just, like,
make the stuff.
It's pretty, like you said,
like walking around
and thinking about this,
thinking about that,
looking at this,
looking at that.
It's like,
can feel
like you're wasting time.
But really it's important.
And sort of
figuring out where

(47:09):
all those kind of
puzzle pieces go and it all
what to do will
kind of hit you at the most
bizarre times.
And then I think, what
what really is
the secret
is just having
the having
structured your environment

(47:30):
and set up your life
so that when that inspiration
hits you,
you're able to capture it
and, with,
with, with very little,
friction.
And also,
like you said, without,
distraction
and.
Yeah, every I mean, we're
just kind of reflecting out

(47:51):
everything that come
that comes in and you can
I'm always looking for like,
little signs.
I think what I meant
with that kind of divine side
is that I, I,
I am coming at life
with this sort of attitude
that, like the whole universe
wants me to succeed

(48:11):
and is constantly offering up
gifts and is offering
up, kind of little
tokens of knowledge
and little
like little puzzle
pieces everywhere.
And I'm
just looking for them.
And I think every failure
I've ever had in my life,
or kind of everything
that I look back on
and feel bad about myself
for, is just

(48:32):
a sort of ignoring the nudges
or not taking
kind of seriously
the nudges from the universe.
There's a really great,
story from, Rick Rubin
about one of the system
of a down songs that
he was,
helping the band work on,
and they were looking
for the lyrics to, like,
fit in a certain
segment of the song.

(48:54):
And,
Rick was just in his office
with, the lead singer,
I think is named Serge
and just told him,
just go
pick a random
book off the bookshelf
and open it.
And,
so he went
and pulled
this book off the shelf
and opened it
and read sort
of the first line
out of the book.
And then that ended up

(49:14):
being like the perfect
lyric to fit into the song.
So with,
with finding like,
I think really the, the,
the major skill is like
identifying those gifts
and really recognizing them
and taking them seriously
and like
when the opportunities

(49:35):
come, like just
really rolling with it
and really, you know, getting
getting it converted into,
into like
physical reality
from that sort of idea
that's in your mind.
Yeah,
that would be
my take on that.
I know the lyric gets the
the father to into your hands

(49:57):
I commend my spirit.
Section of Chop Suey.
I heard that interview, too.
I think it's fascinating.
I mean, I'm
I'm not religious at all, but
but I do identify with, like,
I do recognize
that, creativity
feels like you're
channeling something.
It doesn't feel like you.
Like you feel like you're

(50:18):
you're the
the thing
is, coming
from somewhere else.
And I don't know, like,
I, I think we
what I do think
is that we all,
underestimate
to which extent our mind
creates our own realities.
Like,
how much of the universe
is actually, like,
how you are the universe
to, to a certain degree.

(50:39):
I mean, you're
you're not only in it,
you are it,
and it's it's,
it's sort of like letting,
letting not not
letting the egos stand
in the way of the self
for a while or
something like that.
There's there's
something to it.
Yeah.
I, I just find it
fascinating to
to talk to,

(50:59):
to creative people
about their processes
because everyone
is different,
but everyone seems
to have this,
recurring theme
of of feeling
like they're they're doing
something else's work
and like, it's it's
not an ego thing.
When you
when you let go of that,
I think
what's Benny Andersson
from about that said,

(51:20):
you just have to be
at the piano
when the song is in the room.
Which which I think
is a very,
very good way of putting it.
Anyway, let's
let's get back
to reality and all your,
your encounters with,
you know,
skiing accident and,
running scooters into moose.
What's the

(51:40):
what's the plural of a moose
into Alex?
Is it Alex in Canada?
I mean, me, yeah, yeah.
Let's get back to Canada
for a while.
Skip the accident part.
Let's get back to Canada
for a while. Luke.
Yeah. Yeah, sure.
So, Yeah.
Canada.
It's it's it's
no secret, really.

(52:00):
The two of us are from
the same region.
You been
you've been open about that.
You're from Alberta as well.
And, I spent.
Yeah, 20 years there.
I, I still consider myself
more Albert
and then Canadian.
I don't really
consider myself
Canadian at all,
to be honest.
It's it's
a really hard identity to

(52:22):
to feel
when much of the country
really doesn't like
the place that I'm
from in that country.
And, and.
Yeah, it's it's
been a tough decade
because of a certain
Justin Trudeau
and lots of things
that have been implemented

(52:43):
around that.
And yeah,
it's just been hard
and, and what's it,
what's it been like
being on the ground
in Alberta in the midst of
just this crazy
political climate
where it seems like the
the entire
rest of the country
is out to get us.
Yeah.
Well, it, I mean.

(53:08):
When you grow up in Canada,
you're bombarded
with bombarded by propaganda,
about
how much better
it is
to be Canadian than American
and how much
how fortunate we all are
to be Canadian
instead of American,
and how Canada is exactly
the same place as America,

(53:30):
except with all the horrible,
you know,
all the horrible stuff.
And I mean, like,
some things are certainly
true in that regard.
Like,
but probably 30 years ago,
I don't think they're true
any anymore.
In, in terms of, like,
just the levels,

(53:51):
they're a big, like,
propaganda talking
point in Canada.
It's like all the crime
in the United States
and, 30 years ago,
like,
that was definitely accurate.
There's extreme
like way, way, way
more and more horrific crime
and in Canada.
But due to certain policies
which are illegal
to talk about,

(54:11):
that crime is just here now
and it's just equally as bad
as in the United States
and in some places,
you know,
you could call it worse.
And that's,
that's horrible.
I think, like,
the most devastating
if I was to restart
my entire life over again,
the, the
within 30 minutes

(54:32):
of turning 18,
I would have been across
the border
in pursuit of becoming a U.S.
citizen.
And at that time, it,
you know,
some an entity
like the IRS
would just not
really be concerning
or scary.
And,
you would just kind of fall.
And I say to you,
a lot of my American
friends are born there.
Like,
you guys are just so lucky

(54:52):
that you're
you're already hooked on
onto the IRS because, like,
you can just rock and roll
and crush it
in the United States,
where it's like anybody else
in the world.
Like,
I think that the main deter
from moving
to the United States
and becoming a citizen
is just like taking on
that kind of obligation.

(55:12):
That and
but I can tell you
that, like, Canada
is full blown,
a second world country.
It is
you you notice the transition
into a first world country.
The second
you cross the border
into the United States.
It's just
we're really

(55:33):
in big trouble up here.
And that sucks
because we don't.
We shouldn't be,
it seems like
the whole country
has just been kind of
sold out down the river,
and that
the greatness that we,
the great potential
that we have here
is just being a crushed
and stamped out
because,

(55:54):
where we're being seized
from and it's kind of
if we develop
our own power here,
then we can't be
kind of looted
and pillaged
by other forces in the world.
And, yeah,
I think the biggest thing
over the last, like
five, ten years
has just been,
fighting,

(56:15):
not leaving,
like, for a long time.
Family kind of kept me here.
But, recently
that sort of changed.
And I like,
think about leaving
ever, every day.
But what gives me hope
is that in Alberta,

(56:36):
a lot of people
are really kind of
feeling the same way.
And this
sort of separation,
from Canada
is really starting
to gain a lot of legs
and a lot of speed.
And,
you know,
25 years ago,
if you talked
about separation
from Canada,
like very even at that time,
because 25 years ago

(56:57):
we still had like
the National Energy Program
and all kinds of
really communist crap
that totally abuses
the wealth
generated in Alberta
and then takes the money
generated in Alberta
and redistributed
to the rest of Canada.
But then so, so
lots of people wouldn't
really before the separatism.
But today it's it's

(57:18):
the conversation
has totally changed.
It's gone from
why would we do that
to we'd never be able
to do that
to that
would be really awesome
if we could do that to now
finally, like,
how do we do this?
And that gives me,
that makes me really excited
to be in Alberta
and kind of
be early on this shift,

(57:39):
because if you strip away
the federal government
of Canada, Alberta is
one of the greatest places,
in the world.
And every, everywhere
I've ever been
and ever visited, I'm
always really, really happy
to come home to Alberta.
Like,
one of the main
things I talk about
is that there, there's
just nobody here.

(57:59):
We have, like,
a very low population.
And that's also changed
aggressively
over the last
couple of years.
But as soon as you're out of,
like, the sludge core cities,
there really
isn't a lot of people.
So it feels
like, very spacious
and very comfortable
in that way.
And so it's my hope,
looking into the future,
that Alberta can separate

(58:20):
from Canada
and we can develop our
oil and gas industries,
and we can take
other parts
of, Saskatchewan,
British Columbia
on either side
with us,
and build
like a super power country.
And having it
having it's small enough
that, you know,
we don't have
the sort of negative
effects of a nation state,
but big enough

(58:41):
that we have the ability
to kind of really develop
out our resources
and really
become a prosperous society.
So
for that,
I really hope
to always be here.
But at the same time, like,
I'm kind of
keeping an eye out
because it just
can keep getting worse
and worse and worse.
And like the taxes
just keep getting
higher and higher
and like a huge motivator

(59:01):
right now for me,
that's been poking
at me lately
for leaving Canada.
It's just that
the health care system
is so fucking bad
it's fucking impossible
to get a doctor.
You'll wait like four years
for a fucking surgery,
and then you'll come in
to do your surgery
and they'll just decide
that, actually,
we're not going to do it.

(59:22):
There's all kinds of, like,
horrible horror
stories
around the health care
system here
that are just drowned out
by our entirely state
controlled media.
And that,
like, was not a problem
for me when I was younger.
But now that I'm starting
to get old and break myself
a whole lot, I'm really,
I, I really care

(59:43):
about being able to access
good health care
and, like, something
a lot of people don't know
is that, like,
private health care in
Canada is illegal.
So it's very difficult,
to get to get taken care of.
And there are tons of clinics
that, like,
find loopholes and ways
that they can provide
some level of private
care service.

(01:00:04):
But they're
all very limited,
very closed,
very difficult to get into.
And even
when you're involved
with them, mostly
what they are
is kind of onboarding you
to clinics
or doctors or hospitals
in the United States.
And then
you're having to
leave the country
to get sort of
procedures done
and pay for that
on top of being tax,

(01:00:26):
you know, 50% of your income,
and then all the other
layers of taxes
that add up to roughly
75 to 80% of of the dollars
that you earn in
Canada are
taken by the state.
So, yeah, it's difficult,
but I'm hopeful
it will change.
And like,
Alberta is a ranching place.

(01:00:46):
It's an oil and gas place.
It's an innovative place.
It really does
have a lot of potential.
And if we can kind of
stop the brain drain
that's happening,
which, is happening
across Canada,
but very specifically
in Alberta, that, like,
all the super intelligent
and highly capable people,
just fucking leave.
Because I

(01:01:06):
can even just,
like, right now
by, like,
moving into
the United States,
I can just five my wealth
and my net worth,
even with paying the even
with paying,
like the cost of living
and all that,
it's not everywhere,
depending on where you choose
and just having access
to like a proper real market
and being able to

(01:01:27):
be surrounded by people
who are able to produce
like wealth at scale,
and that have like less
of the limitations
that exists in Canada
is so powerful.
So it's very tempting
to like to, to, to leave.
And I think that anyone
who really,
you know,
has it together,

(01:01:47):
that's exactly
what they do, is like,
get the hell out of here.
Which is really sad
because we just
lose a lot of the.
And then we're just.
I think that's why
we've become, like,
such a fucking
commie shithole place
is because
so many brilliant minds
have fucking left,
and we're kind of just left
with all the
incompetent noobs
that, you know,
are more concerned

(01:02:08):
about taking
and stealing the wealth
that has been produced
by others
than finding a way
to generate their,
their own prosperity.
And it yeah, it sucks.
So
long rant, but
and you know, I agree
with so much of it.
I mean, I'm going to pretend
you haven't
been talking about me
giving me compliments
this whole time.

(01:02:28):
Because because I did,
I did leave, and, and,
you know, the circumstances
for that weren't like,
I wasn't desperate to leave.
But the thing was,
as soon as I got
the opportunity, I took it.
And one of the reasons for
that was just because there
there was no job
security here.
None like any of the oil

(01:02:49):
and gas companies here
could go on a layoff spree
at any time,
and everyone would understand
and know why, right?
Because because just
the economic
conditions sucked.
And and so taking
that way out
that that lifeline
I mean
I've got a lot of FOMO for,
for not
being in the
Alberta community
because it seems like there's

(01:03:10):
a lot of awesome stuff
going on there.
At the same time,
I really think
it would be hard
to to live in the conditions
you're you're talking about.
I mean,
I mean,
where, where I've,
where I've gone to is,
is definitely not this,
this like,
libertarian Paradise
by any means.
But but Finland
is culturally
a lot like Alberta,

(01:03:31):
and certainly
I would say
Alberta compared
to other parts of, of Canada
in that
it is very individualistic,
despite having
a pretty big state there.
But but the thing is,
there isn't this,
this constant stress
that everything
is going to
going to just crumble.
And I mean, that was
that was the biggest thing.
And I,

(01:03:51):
I think if Alberta were able
to actually achieve
some measure
of independence and,
and not constantly
having the rest
of the country
take, take,
take this,
this is
this is just
the ridiculous thing.
Every year
when,
when the new
equalization payments
come out, the, the,
the for for those
who don't know, like the,
the the system of payments

(01:04:13):
from the so-called
have provinces in Canada
to the so-called have nots
and it's really, Quebec,
the French speaking region is
is mostly the is
most of the,
the have nots
and Alberta and Saskatchewan
and the producing provinces
are the big haves.
It's just it's
just ridiculous to me.
Like that's it's
such a blunt instrument.
That's not the way

(01:04:34):
to, to do it.
And
and it just creates
this, this resentment
and it creates
a dependance as well.
Of course.
I mean,
we can cycle
back to something else
you said about,
really just the the
culture of
being
dependent and of, of
thinking it's normal

(01:04:54):
to, to have society
be based on
taking from other people.
Like,
the thing about Rand's
work, Atlas Shrugged,
and I think the thing
that really gets me
there is it's just that
when people have had enough,
they're just going to
opt out.
Like,
I, I care about my family.

(01:05:15):
I care about my
my friends, my community.
I'm I'm going to help them,
but not if I'm forced to
write like, I'm not going.
If I'm forced to help
the entire rest
of my country, whatever.
Like.
And I have no control over
what's going on.

(01:05:36):
It's just
there's a breaking
point, right?
No matter how good
conditions are.
And I think that's the thing
that that,
none of the people who are
left leaning or even even
all the way
call me basically in Canada,
really get across the world.
But I'm familiar with Canada.

(01:05:56):
Like I see people online
talking about how Trudeau
is actually awesome
and the Conservative Party
is only just going to,
you know,
cut all these services
and make everything worse.
And, I mean, maybe they are
maybe they are going
to make everything worse.
I, I'm not pretending that,
the politics is the
is the cure
all here,
but it's it's just crazy how,

(01:06:19):
there's always talk
about about
putting in your fair
share into society and,
and that
millionaires and billionaires
and the most successful
have to pay more, pay more,
pay more like
like it's
all about the
percentage of tax
that you pay.
And it's really just,

(01:06:39):
it's it's so infuriating
because because that money
can be so much better spent.
Just
if I could just funnel money
into into my business,
if I could just help out
where I want to help out.
You know,
my buddy needs a boost,
because
he's in trouble temporarily.
Whatever.
Or there's some charity

(01:06:59):
that I.
I actually like. Right.
I'm going to do that.
But if it's all taken away,
that incentive
just goes away.
And so,
yeah, I'm, I'm
just I'm just honestly,
I really hope that
that Alberta can actually
achieve independence.
I really want that.
I, I think that's,

(01:07:20):
that's going to be good for,
for Canada.
To, to get its lifeline
taken away.
And that's going to be good
for Alberta and, well,
I think a trend
anyway, worldwide
is going to be
some of this fragmenting,
you know,
that some of these bigger
countries and bigger,
associations

(01:07:40):
are going to start
to decentralize more.
There's even talk about that
in the States, right.
So, yeah, what do you
what do you think about that?
Like the,
the way things are going.
Well, I mean,
I think often about
how in a free society,
if you want to help the poor
or the less fortunate
or you want to make

(01:08:01):
a, a contribution,
nobody will stop
you from doing that.
And the the state
of the world,
like the governments of the
world, have really
put a lot of money and a
lot of time
and a lot of effort
into convincing us that
if it wasn't
for their benevolent grace,

(01:08:23):
that all the less fortunate
would just die
in the streets.
And it's just not
a true reality at all.
I think that for the,
for the most part
in, in Canada
and in America,
that people are
inherently good.
And I think that they are

(01:08:43):
pushed by the theft, to act
in, in ways
that they wouldn't normally
if they were,
if they were more free.
For example,
like if you're earning
crazy amounts of money
in the taxes, low you,
you, you have,
you're more likely
to have an attitude
to want to give back

(01:09:04):
and want to do
something meaningful
and want to make
a contribution
like a donation
or do something charitable
with the
with the money
that you're earning.
Then
if you're working
equally as hard
and having
half of what you earn
stole in from you,
and you're being berated
and told that you're
a terrible person
for being able

(01:09:24):
to produce
that kind of wealth,
and that you don't deserve
to have it
in the first place,
and that there
are other people
who need it more than you.
And it's being taken.
I think that just turns you
into the type of person who
does want to
just let people die
in the streets,
and, and makes you angry,
and it makes you resent

(01:09:44):
the people
who are less fortunate
because you are being robbed.
In, in, in their name,
which really creates
sort of a negative,
a really
negative sphere to be in.
Versus like I said, if you're
just crushing it,
making extremely good money,
you're left alone.
You're celebrated
for your production

(01:10:05):
and your contribution.
And, you know, you're you're
at that point,
I, I, you know, yeah.
Some there will be some like
bad apples here
and there that are like,
no, fuck everybody.
I'm just taking all of it.
But I don't believe it.
It's true at all
that that would be
the only case
I think we would find.

(01:10:26):
I think we would find
the state of all the things
that the fucking commies
cry about,
which is just shields
their own lust for power
would be solved, very,
very quickly by private,
participants.
Every, every sort of,
every program

(01:10:47):
that the government
has come up with,
the private
sector could do it
way, way better.
And I think certainly would,
especially
if they were not
being stolen from
so I hope to see that
kind of change.
In, in Alberta,
I think people in Alberta
feel that way a lot.

(01:11:07):
And like,
the cities are bad
samples in Canada
because they're just totally.
That's where
like when you're
living in a city, you are
you are fully dependent,
on the city.
So you're much more prone
to, like, the collectivist
thinking, versus
when you're rural,
you know,
you have to
plow your own driveway.

(01:11:27):
You have to, you know, shit,
go and seek out your own.
So you got to
figure things out
for yourself.
And so, you know,
I hope
that more people
can kind of understand that,
because right now,
how how it is,
is that all the wealth
just leaves.
So, like,
everyone kind of
cries and screams about it.

(01:11:48):
And then they put
in these, like,
completely insane rules,
which I think we saw
in one of those,
like northern European
countries recently.
Where they up the wealth
tax and crazy amount
and all the fucking
idiot
bureaucrats were excited
about how much more money
they'd be able to invest,
and they were all designing
their new lake houses.
And then all of a sudden,
they had far less than they

(01:12:10):
did the year before
because so much capital fled.
And I think that the harder
that the state pushes
to increase their theft,
the more we're going to
see that sort of escape.
And, I think that
there are jurisdictions
and there are places
in the world

(01:12:31):
that will realize
the opportunity
of saying like, hey, all,
all we have to do
is make this country
tax fucking free.
Or like just the lowest
possible tax
and you'll will
just brain drain like
look at fucking Dubai
and like

(01:12:52):
and you know all the
all those little islands
in the Caribbean
and these places
around the world,
it's like
one somewhere
along the line,
one of these
first world countries
that is really,
really amazing
that people want to live
in is going to be like,
you know what?
Let's just fucking do
the whole
no tax thing and create
a haven for for businesses
and then
the entire world,

(01:13:13):
especially if it's a
really fucking good place.
We'll flood there
and we'll set up
their operations there
and we'll begin to,
you know, build lives there.
And that's what I see
forward in Alberta.
That would be
the most amazing
thing, is that, okay,
we have this
section of Alberta
where our own country
and we're going
to structure ourselves
in the same way

(01:13:33):
as Monaco is structured,
or Luxembourg or Andorra
or any of these like
European countries
where we're just like, okay,
like this is the
the sovereign republic
of the Crow's Nest Pass.
And here
the tax rate is zero,
and here
the corporate tax
rate is zero.

(01:13:54):
And here
and you know,
and just like provide provide
and like obviously, you know,
there is some level,
of contribution
that has to be made
to make a place
awesome and livable.
And I think that'll
just be naturally done
by the individuals
who join that society.
It does not.
It'll just be emergent.
It will not be from decree.

(01:14:14):
So that's what
I would really love to see
in Alberta.
We just have a,
a section of it.
I don't know how big
or how or whatever it'll be.
And we just say like,
okay, like let,
let let's look
at the success of Panama.
Let's like
the success of Monaco.
Let's look at the
the success of these places
that have really
put good deals on the table

(01:14:36):
to, to business and banking
on all the industries.
And, you know,
you are welcome to
participate in
free markets here.
And we will not steal from
you would be a great
that would just be a great
like country motto.
Like we will
not steal your shit.
Will not

(01:14:56):
we will not take
what you've
built with your effort
and labor and claim
it as our own.
No, I absolutely agree
that like
the reason
people don't understand
that zero is
the ultimate tax rate
is that they
got the whole thing.
There's so
many misconceptions.
First of all,
like you have the left for
curve, right?
So if if,

(01:15:16):
a country has a 100% tax
as nobody works
because there's no
point in working
because they take everything,
so then
you can't take
their stuff anymore
because no one does anything.
And if you have a 0% tax,
then everyone works
because they have to
to survive.
And the theory
is that somewhere
in between that
that this is a curve.
So there's an optimal point

(01:15:37):
for Texas
where you can extract
as much as possible.
But what they don't
understand
is that that point
is actually zero.
Because what
what Texas
do always
is, miss allocate
resource and says
and hinder
hinder companies
from having
exponential growth.
And my, my go to example
is the apple tree farmer

(01:15:58):
who has one tree
the first year.
And he makes so much profit
that he can have two
the next year, for the year
after that eighth,
the year after that.
And thereby
his company
can have an
exponential growth
and he can feed
an exponential
amount of mouths
over the years.
And if it's just taxed 50%,
he never gets to
the second tree.
So all of these
exponential effects

(01:16:19):
that could have
been going on,
you don't see any of them
because and it's
all because of the taxes.
It's not because people,
the brain drain
or anything that the
the taxes themselves
fuck everything up
and people don't work
and and we
I come from Sweden.
You live in, in Canada
you would live in Finland.

(01:16:39):
These are all taxes
that are way
beyond the Laffer curve.
We're way above 50% taxes,
especially if you
include everything which is,
you end up with
a number like 80%
if all VAT or import tariffs
or all the all the bullshit.
And still we haven't
even begun
talking about inflation,

(01:17:00):
which is like
the worst Sneakiest
meanest fucking
tax of them all
that punishes the the,
the poorest and,
and richest,
the richest,
those with assets
gain from it
and those without,
pay for pay
for everything else. So
but the beauty of this
is that this country

(01:17:21):
we're talking about
already exists.
It's bitcoin like,
you can a company
just it's
nothing but a telegram group
or something.
You can do everything
without permission
and just do the shit,
and nobody
can do anything about it.
As long as you don't
touch the fucking banks,
because they suck
and they're in cahoots
with the government.

(01:17:41):
So be in Bitcoin,
you know,
get paid for your goods
and services in Bitcoin.
Don't tell anyone about it.
Just fucking do the things.
And we can give the
middle finger to the state
and enjoy the ride
at the same time.
And the purchasing
power of Bitcoin
the number go up thing
that is Bitcoin telling you
how much better

(01:18:02):
a libertarian, anarcho
capitalist, centralist,
objectivist society
is than all of this
fucking comic book
bullshit that
that all other politics are.
So fuck you and do bitcoin
opt out and a rant.
Yeah.
No, definitely. I
zero is the perfect tax rate

(01:18:25):
and allows every everything
everybody to thrive
and at all levels.
You know it
even incentivizes
like the low
the lowest because well your
you own your time
so you can convert
your time into capital,
then you can use that capital

(01:18:45):
however you like.
And it isn't complicated.
It isn't hard.
I mean,
like a lot of a lot
of the things in business
that, are make
production so difficult
is just entirely bureaucracy
and entirely
the government
getting in the way.
Of productive operation.

(01:19:09):
And if we can just have
a place
where that doesn't happen
and, like,
you know,
if, as the state body,
if there is one, just
leaves you alone,
that that's the ideal,
you know, that
that's the real utopia,
that all these
fucking collectivist
retards are in pursuit
of is just like a place

(01:19:30):
where the market signal
is clear and perfect
so that resources
are not mis allocated
and are not wasted,
and a place
where you own your time
and the effort and the value
you produce with your time,
is able
to be transported
into the future
and able to be saved

(01:19:51):
for when you need it.
And that's why
in a lot of my work,
I have the message that,
death to times thieves.
And what I say
to a lot of my friends
who are kind of
have been on the edge
of Bitcoin for so long,
it's like,
what you don't
understand is like,
these people
have been fucking
stealing from us
all this time.

(01:20:12):
Like,
they're out of the game.
It's over.
It's done for them.
And like we're going
to go through this
rough transition period.
But at the end of it,
like their ability
to steal from us
is completely destroyed.
And I'm happy
that Bitcoin is at this point
where like
this is an inevitable future.
It is coming no matter what.

(01:20:32):
No one can get
in the way of it.
And I think
the next couple of years
are going to be
really exciting
because we're going to see
that as, really large
actors start to use
Bitcoin for,
the fucking same,
like the purposes
it was designed for.
And the same reason that all
of us use it as individuals.

(01:20:53):
You know, giant companies are
going to be
playing, playing out exactly
as us individuals act.
And that just creates
exactly what you're
talking about with this,
this world
that that is a free,
free marketplace.
And so I just
I'm so excited for it
to be to
for it to accelerate.

(01:21:13):
And I'm so excited
for the fucking people
who have profited
off of the theft
to just come to, to
have to fucking
go and work for.
Yeah, this time
they'll have to get a haircut
and a job like this.
That's just it.
Maybe not a haircut,
but I mean,

(01:21:33):
now I couldn't agree more.
I think the transition
will be more peaceful
than we than we think.
Like, I like having that
thought in my head
because I think that's
how we make that happen.
It will be
because the brutes
and enforces
are being onboarded
to the coin.
So like Bitcoin
and it's just like,
no, when you look

(01:21:54):
at every example
of everything
that's ever played out,
it's like, okay.
Like the wars ended
when the money ran out.
And you know what?
The individual
is going to make a decision,
which is,
you know, pay me with what?
Yeah, exactly.
You want me to go and enforce
all this fucking bitcoin shit

(01:22:14):
and, like, squash
bitcoin, man? Fuck you.
I have bitcoin,
I have a lot of bitcoin.
I've been saving it
since I listened to
that podcast way back.
Yeah.
Like I'm like made it
and enforce that.
So like
that that that's it's really
there's a really good
kind of visualization of it
which is in Fight Club.

(01:22:35):
Yeah.
And how you know that
the Fight Club
members
are just fucking everywhere,
and they're,
they're like
the brick and mortar
of the whole world.
And we we have that
now, and, it's really great.
I have a story
that I was going
through,
like a security check
in the world,
and I got,

(01:22:56):
sent to, like, the,
like,
secondary check
where they rip your whole
bags apart
and they really
give you a hard time.
And,
I went through
the whole process
and just kind of, like,
answered everything honestly.
And it was fine.
But then at the very end,
like the,
the guy who was the officer
inspecting my stuff
just kind of leaned in and

(01:23:16):
was like, do you own Bitcoin?
And it's like one
of those questions
that's like kind of awkward
when you're crossing borders.
But like,
everything in my bag
was bitcoin related
and I was going to a
bitcoin conference.
I was like, yeah.
So I just like yes.
And then he just leaned
in a little closer so do I.

(01:23:37):
Oh fucking amazing.
And then like pulled back
and then like
I packed all my shit together
like stamped my papers
and sent me off on my way.
And it was like only
one of those sort of fight
club moments.
Oh, I think
we're going to see that,
because the people
who are
most comfortable
with the fed and,
you know,
and the fiat currency
are going to be the last ones
to onboard

(01:23:58):
the coin,
and that's
just going to work perfectly.
The people who are
going to be buying.
And I've been pushing this
a lot lately,
which is that like,
I don't give a fuck about
any of these fucking suits.
I don't give
a fuck about this
economic stuff.
I don't give a fuck about,
you know, MicroStrategy
and all that crap.
Like,
what I care about is,
like, do the people

(01:24:18):
whose efforts
enable my quality of life,
do they have Bitcoin
and how do I get
those people bitcoin.
So all the
maintenance requirements
for property
all like my farm
and food supply,
every like component
of my quality of life,
I want to make sure
that the people
who directly support
that, have bitcoin

(01:24:41):
and that bitcoin is
sort of an investment
in their business.
It's like, yeah,
when you
when you're
when you start paying
people around you
in Bitcoin, it's
almost like you're going
to making
little like venture
capital investments
and like all these businesses
because
the bitcoin that you
pay them with
and you know
if they keep it right.
So you have to do a good job
of them.

(01:25:02):
Understanding
and respecting the coins
just guarantees
that that business
is still going to be here
in ten years.
Yeah.
And those are the people
that fucking matter
to to get the coins,
not the suits,
not anybody
that's in the banks
end of that crap.
Because, you know, the guy,
the like the cop that pulls
you over,
you know, for
speaking aggressively.

(01:25:22):
Just pitch that guy
some fucking bitcoin
because he,
he's got to get on it
because he's not making
fucking shit.
And he's dealing
with the exact same.
All the enforcers are dealing
with the exact same fucked up
stresses of inflation
that we are.
And onboarding them
to Bitcoin just makes it
one step easier
that when you know,
true Dao or these other

(01:25:43):
sort of leaders
that are out there
cast their orders to go
and stamp out
the fucking Bitcoin,
it's just not possible
to do because,
you know,
and I think this is
already happening.
Like guaranteed
there's like
CIA analysts
that have been stacking
for fucking eight years.
And our heavily incentivized
to like
fuck up some

(01:26:04):
weird orders to go and attack
something with bitcoin
and you know,
and it's not
going to be all of them.
But definitely
it's a large percentage
more and more
every day onboarding.
Now and we're
heading towards
the final scene
in Fight Club.
Not only this interview
but that that is like
where hyper
mechanization starts,
where all the skyscrapers

(01:26:25):
with a credit card companies
just fall apart.
And I'm going to play
that Pixies
song on the loudest volume
and enjoy this show
when it happens. Yeah.
My next.
It's been fantastic
having you on the show.
Yeah.
Super conversation.
Great to have you here.
Good luck with everything
in the future,
and I hope to see you soon.
In real life.
If not in Prague,

(01:26:47):
then somewhere else.
Yeah.
Good luck
with everything, guys.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for having me on.
And, you know,
just keep stay,
stay sovereign, I guess.
Just keep,
keep making up
your own minds.
Thanks, actually.
Awesome.
Well, with that,
is there any way
you'd like
to direct our listeners?

(01:27:08):
Where can they find out
more about
your project?
Oh, Bitcoin. All that.
Yeah.
It's just
if you're in Europe,
you can sign up to Bull
Bitcoin now
and start
using our services there.
You know where
we're just recently launched.
So still figuring things out.
But it's seems to be working
very smoothly.

(01:27:29):
And if you're Costa Rica
you can figure out how to pay
with Bitcoin
for absolutely everything
because we're integrated
with SymPy. There.
And then obviously
in Canada,
long running,
extremely good
Bitcoin services
for any of your needs
to kind of interact
with the fiat system.

(01:27:51):
And then I have artwork
listed at Madex Art,
and it's kind of always
changing and cycling
and, yeah, I would say just,
whoever is most important
to the actual function
of your life, like,
get those people on Bitcoin
and don't worry about any
anybody else.
And yeah.

(01:28:13):
Absolutely fantastic.
I think
that's the perfect way
to end the show.
So mate X
thank you again
for coming on.
And this is being the Bitcoin
Infinity Show.
Thank you for listening.

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Bitcoin, Art, and Freedom with Madex | Bitcoin Infinity Show #148

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Bitcoin, Art, and Freedom with Madex | Bitcoin Infinity Show #148