March 24, 2025 • 57 mins
This episode of the Bitcoin Infinity Academy covers Sovereignty Through Mathematics Chapter 1: Everything A Trade. Discover how every interaction is an exchange and how Bitcoin introduces absolute scarcity—redefining the nature of money and trade.
Read the chapter on Nostr: https://primal.net/infinity/Sovereignty-Through-Mathematics-Chater-1-Everything-A-Trade-pchmkr
Join the academy at our Geyser page: https://geyser.fund/project/infinity
The Bitcoin Infinity Academy is an educational project built around Knut Svanholm’s books about Bitcoin and Austrian Economics. Each week, a whole chapter from one of the books is released for free on Highlighter, accompanied by a video in which Knut and Luke de Wolf discuss that chapter’s ideas. You can join the discussions by signing up for one of the courses on our Geyser page!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome to theBitcoin Infinity Academy, brought to
you by Plan B Network and Bit Box.
I'm Kwan and I'm here today,as always with Luke De Wolf.
How are we doing today, Luke?
Doing great, knu.
Thanks.
This is really exciting.
This first chapter here of sovereigntythrough mathematics, everything a trade.
This is, uh, yeah.
(00:21):
Uh, I think we both weresaying we, we already.
Know it basically by heart.
It's, it's that memorable.
So I'm excited to dive into it.
Yes.
So shall we just get at it?
Uh, I think that's, uh,how we do this, right?
I, I, I think so.
So, so I think I'll just, I'll justremind if you want to follow along
the, the chapters available on Noster,uh, we've got a nice primal link.
(00:43):
I think that we'll drop in the descriptionhere and learn more about how to
join the academy at our Geyser page.
All the links are in the description,so I think with that, shall we dive in?
Absolutely.
Okay, let's do it.
So this is the firsttime we're doing this.
I'll just explain that, but I thinkthe, the format here is gonna make
a lot of sense once we get into it.
(01:03):
Uh, basically I'm going to be readingeach paragraph and then Knut and I
were, we're gonna discuss it and,uh, see what ideas come out of it.
So yeah, let's, uh, let's just do it.
Everything at Trade chapter one ofSovereignty through Mathematics.
All human interactioncan be defined as trade.
(01:25):
Yes.
All human interaction, everytime a human being interacts with
another, an exchange takes place.
In every conversation we have, weexchange information with each other.
Even the most trivial information isof some value to the other person.
If information didn't have any valueto us, we wouldn't talk to each other.
(01:46):
what the other person says isvaluable to us, or we find it
valuable to give information to them.
Oftentimes, both at the core of all humaninteraction that isn't violent, both
parties perceive that they gain somevalue from it, otherwise, the interaction
wouldn't have taken place at all.
Civilizations begin this way.
Two people finding it valuableto interact with each other.
(02:08):
That's all it takes.
Knut.
What did you mean by that?
I, I think this is, uh, the perfectway to start your, uh, Bitcoin journey.
Understanding the simple fact about humanbeings and how we interact that, uh,
we, we have two means of communicationo of interacting with one another.
(02:30):
One is communication, and theother is violence or aggression.
And, uh, as we are going to see over thecourse of all of these courses, Consensual
or like consensual, uh, interactions.
Voluntary interactions are alwayspreferable to violent ones.
Bitcoin is peace.
(02:50):
Bitcoin is piece.
Yeah, I mean, the, the, the funny thinghere is I, I, I. Really like what you
say about this is the perfect start.
Uh, completely agree withthat because, but, but it's,
it's counterintuitive, right?
Like the, the message that Bitcoinis like all this in, in the
mainstream that Bitcoin is all about.
Crypto and, and all of this like numbergo up, uh, everything related to that
(03:13):
and no, like, it, uh, it, it's a totalmind shift when we approach Bitcoin
from the philosophical perspective or,or that Bitcoin is actually the result
of coming to the understanding of theworld in a completely different way.
And I mean, this is what Ioriginally liked about your books
before we'd even met was, was thatj just an introduction to these.
(03:37):
Alternate approaches to thinking aboutthe world that ultimately is, is a
austral economics is, is at the, the base.
Right.
But, but I didn't know that.
And isn't Al isn't it basicallyalso true that you didn't know
that too at the time of writing?
no, when I, when I wrote thischapter, I hadn't really done a deep
dive into Austrian economics yet.
So in hindsight, I'm very proud thatI had come to, uh, these conclusions
(04:00):
without knowing, too much aboutMees and Roth Board and all of that.
But, uh, it, it is like w it isso simple and I think everyone who
just thinks about these things, uh,will inevitably, uh, end up with.
Drawing these conclusions becausethese are things that you cannot
argue with, uh, without runninginto a logical contradiction.
(04:24):
And that's the basisof Austrian economics.
And it's not really debatable.
If, if, if you could debate it,like, like I'd, I'd love to see
the ideas of Austrian economics,economics challenged somehow because.
To be honest, some ofthe axioms may be wrong.
It's just that they are built aroundbeing not being wrong because they're,
(04:49):
you can't really argue against them.
That's why they're axioms like, uh,so, so, uh, yeah, first paragraph.
First paragraph.
Uh, we'll, we'll continue, I think,uh, quite a bit of discussion on, on
Austrian economics as, as we go here.
So I'll, I'll.
Save, I'll save some of my additionalcomments on the matter for for
(05:10):
other times when we're gonna hit.
Things more directly.
And this is gonna be a theme herealso, that, that we're going to hit
some of the ideas multiple times.
You know, like, uh, it, it comesup over and over again in the
course of a course of your books,basically, but, but we're always
gonna hit it from a slightly differentangle and, and build on the ideas.
I think that's what we've been soexcited about as, as we go here.
(05:32):
So, I'll, I'll move on to the,uh, to the next paragraph here.
So what constitutes value?
What we find valuableis entirely subjective.
A comforting hug, for example, probablyhas a different value to a 2-year-old
than it has to a withered army general.
Even the most basic actionsuch as breathing encapsulates
(05:53):
the whole value spectrum.
We tend to forget that even a singlebreath of air can be of immense value
to us under the right circumstances.
A single breath is worth more thananything on the planet to a desperate,
free diver, trapped under ice while worthnothing to a person with a death wish.
In clean forest air on a sunny summer day,value is derived from supply and demand.
(06:15):
And demand is always subjective.
Supply is not.
So supply and demand.
Demand is always subjective.
Supply is not really good.
Encapsulation there.
I think this is anothernew thing for most people.
Wouldn't you say.
Yeah, absolutely.
Uh, and, and this is sort of howtrade is the bridge between, uh, the
(06:37):
subjective and the objective betweenthe, will and wants of people and
the, uh, the world around us really.
And why, why property likesowning something is, is what?
What bridges the two worlds andtrading, trading objects with one
another and trading goods and services.
That's, that's really it.
(06:58):
And there's another thing I thoughtof when, when hearing this again, and
it's the, um, the concept of breathing.
Breathing can be a human action,but doesn't necessarily have to be.
And this, uh, here we go into deep,uh, Austrian economics, I guess.
Because it's about the distinctionbetween action and just instinct.
Uh, so most of the time when youbreathe, you don't think about it.
(07:21):
You don't do it with purpose.
And this is how, uh, the, uh,Austrian School differentiates
between just basic instinct and likeanimalistic behaviors and action.
Because human action is, purposefulbehavior is the very first
axiom of, of Austrian economics.
So if you do something with intent.
(07:42):
then it's an action.
And you can also not do something,uh, with intent, which is, which
is why inaction is also an action.
But yeah.
Uh, points.
Main point of the paragraphI would say is that demand is
subjective and supply is not.
Yeah.
And well, an interesting thinghere, since we're kind of going
(08:04):
into some, some weeds here.
I, I think it's really tothe, to the disservice of.
A economics that, that's eventhe terminology used at all.
And I think that's thebiggest misconception about
Austrian economics in general.
Uh, that it's, it's really just describinghow the world I. And that's what makes
it entirely different from all mainstreameconomics, which is really this, this
(08:29):
predictive price modeling and, and, andtrying, trying to, um, trying to think
about how the world is going to work ifyou make all these manipulative changes.
But Austrian economics really just is adescription of how the world works and.
When that clicked to me that that, youknow, kind of more libertarian types and
the, the kind of political conclusionsI think of, of, of thinking in an
(08:54):
Austrian way is, is actually differentfrom the Austrian economics itself.
It's, it's not describing, uh, apolitical, economic, framework.
It's just describing human action, right.
it's about methodology and epistemology.
So all it does is say,is say that, uh, um.
(09:16):
All else given being equal if X theny like so, so, so that's, that's the
how, how you draw conclusions, uh,from, from this type of thinking.
And I think the reason it's not morepopular, uh, the main reason is, is all
of the confusion going on because wesay schools of economics when they're.
(09:40):
W there aren't really different schools.
There's how the world works and there'sa bunch of, uh, uh, a, a bunch of word
salads about different tasting wordsalads, about how it oughts to work or how
people think it works, but that's not it.
Uh, Aus economics is just as muchabout setting the boundaries for
(10:01):
what we can know as, as it isthe knowledge itself, like so.
Main point here is thatthis is not debatable.
Uh, value is absolutely subjective.
Uh, it's subjective betweenpeople and between situations.
Uh, um, uh, uh, a table for instance canbe a tool for a. The same person like who
(10:24):
wants to sit down and have a meal at thetable, but it can also be an obstacle.
If it's on the freeway and he is tryingto drive on the freeway, then the table
is not a useful tool, but a uh, uh, uh,an obstacle meaning I. It has a completely
different value, even a negative value.
So value is valuing stuff issomething we do all the time.
(10:46):
And these scales always change andwe always have a scale of preference
that can be ordered, like fromhighest priority to lowest priority.
But we can never measure how, how muchmore valuable one thing is to another,
just that it is more or less valuable.
This is so it can be arranged, uh,uh, ordinarily but never cardinally.
(11:11):
And this is, uh, anotherthing in Austrian economics.
Yeah.
And again, I think, I think it'sjust, just the point of that, that all
the other schools, schools are, arepeople trying to control the world.
Basically trying to impose their, theirwill and how the world ought to be.
But, but instead of just describinghow it works, and I, I, I
(11:34):
think there's a real value inunderstanding how the world works.
That that's, that's been the, the biggestthing that clicked with me when under when
understanding this stuff is that, if youcan see a little bit behind the meaning.
of why people do things isso much easier to understand.
well, yeah.
Really, really simply.
(11:55):
Why pe, why anyone does anything and,and get to the root of their motivations
and, and have a conversation withpeople and understand what's going on.
all coming back to incentives basically.
Uh, and, and, um, I think that's, Ithink that's really valuable and I
think some of the conclusions towardsthe end of this chapter, um, really
(12:16):
allude at Bitcoin's role in, trying tosmooth out some of the, the incentive
issues that we see in the system.
So, uh, I don't know, do you,do you have anything, anything
more here or should we just
I would just add that, uh, I, I don'tthink the other schools of economics
are like deliberately manipulativeand want to con control people.
(12:36):
I think they, they, they arewhat they are because, uh.
For the longest time, like peoplethought that, uh, empiricism was
the only way of doing science, like,uh, testing a, a hypothesis and, and
measuring the results in the realworld, and then adjusting the hypothesis
based on what those results were.
(12:57):
But economics is a completely different.
Science, uh, be because youcan't use empiricism to either
confirm or deny anything.
Since humans have free will, we haveno choice but to have it so humans
can decide to do something else.
The next time you measure.
Markets are always dynamic, whichforces you to use a completely different
(13:19):
method of thinking about these things.
Uh, so methodology here is,uh, is really the key to, to
understanding what's going on.
And without these thoughts,Bitcoin couldn't have existed.
Like, uh, uh, Satoshi definitely had atleast some understanding of osteo and
economics, probably a very deep one.
Otherwise, It wouldn'thave come up with Bitcoin.
(13:41):
Uh, that's my theory anyway.
Honestly, I think that's abit of a, maybe a hot take.
Just, just it, it's, I think it'simpossible to know if this was what was,
what was going on back at the, the time.
But, uh, I, I, you, you might beright, but, but, uh, maybe people can
stumble on things with Without havingthe, the knowledge and understanding.
(14:03):
Right.
Because, because you, you've saidyourself that you didn't, you
didn't, uh, you didn't ever readany meis before you wrote this book.
that's, that's true.
Like, uh, even a, a blindhen can find a golden pebble,
Bitcoin's definitely a golden pebble.
Or more than that.
Much more than
yet it's a golden goose, which youshouldn't sacrifice for kinder egg.
Yes, that's, uh, maybe an injoke, but, uh, good, good term.
(14:28):
Anyway, I think, I think let's,uh, let's tackle the next one here.
Since all of our lives are limitedby time, time is the ultimate example
of a scarce, tradable resource.
We all sell our time, we sell it toothers, and we sell it to ourselves.
Everyone sells their time either througha product that took them a certain amount
(14:49):
of time to produce or as a service.
And services are always take time.
If you are an employee on a steadypayroll, you typically sell eight hours
of your day every day to your employer.
If you're doing something you truly loveto do, that eight hour day still belongs
to you in a way since you're doingwhat you'd probably be doing anyway if
you had been forced to do it for free.
(15:12):
we sacrifice time in order toacquire something in the future.
An education, for instance, gives noimmediate reward, but can lead to a better
paying, more satisfying job in the future.
An investment is basically ourfuture self trading time with
our present self at a discount.
Once again, every humaninteraction viewed as a trade.
(15:36):
K.
Yeah, I, I love the, themiddle of this paragraph.
Uh, it is perfectly describing whatwe're doing right now and, uh, how we
own our, our time by doing, gettingpaid for, doing what we would be doing
anyway, because we love doing it.
So, so, uh, uh.
(15:58):
That's, that's my immediatethought about this.
And also there's, there's a hinthere at, uh, medium of exchange over
time and space, which is a conceptwe get into in clown world, uh, far
off in the future for this show.
But, uh, that.
Um, you're, you're trading with yourfuture self when you're storing value.
(16:20):
So I, I don't really likethe term store of value.
I prefer medium exchange over timebecause what you're actually doing is
you're trading with your future self.
And so all, all interactionstake place in time.
So without the time dimension,you can't have any trade.
I'm, I'm still a store of value guy.
(16:41):
I like the term as a, as a descriptionand you, you know, but it, it's,
it's good to to point out thatwe're not exactly the same person.
We, we, we bicker like amarried couple all the time.
I. But, but, uh, no, no.
Uh, the medium of exchange over timeidea that, that definitely is a, is an
interesting way of thinking about it.
I, I, I still value the, the otherterms to, because I think they're
(17:05):
a little more straightforwardfor, for people to, to grasp.
But, but yeah, mediumof exchange over time.
Um, and, and in this paragraph, I likethe allusion to, to sacrifice and I mean.
This is a concept that civilizationallybasically, uh, the, the, the concept of
being low time preference or in otherwords, sacrificing immediate gratification
(17:26):
for, uh, for gain in the future.
That's how civilization developedand societies that started to take up
ritual sacrifice in order to literally.
Practice sacrificing, uh, uh, to gettheir, but to get their mindset right.
Basically.
That's my understanding of the,the purpose of, of sacrifice.
(17:47):
Like, um, um, taking, I don'tknow, the, the, the last bushel
of wheat or whatever it is that I.
Uh, people farm, um, and, and burning it.
Um, uh, or, or actually many types, typesof sacrifice was even that you just had
it in a, a feast like you, you sort of,you, you richly sacrifice it, but then
(18:07):
everyone eats it or, or whatever it is.
But you, you give something up inorder to, to mimic the scarcity of,
of losing something so that you havethe mindset of that you need to get
better and you need to continually.
Do the thing that, that moves societyforward as soon as civilizations, as
soon as cultures started to realize that,then there's more and more archeological
(18:29):
evidence that they grow bigger and biggerand they're able to better withstand,
uh, difficult, difficult conditions,especially winters like none of the
societies that developed in in NorthernEurope, would've been able to, to
get through anything if they couldn'tmake it through the winter, basically.
So they, they learned low time preference.
Right.
And, uh, uh, so, so yeah, it's, it'sjust tying this all together to the
(18:52):
idea of that, you can get your headaround that, maybe doing something
now to better yourself and, anddelaying gratification is going to
get you better rewards in the future.
That, that's something forevery individual to learn.
That's something for everyfamily group of people to learn.
And, and honestly, I think the worldis gonna be much better off if we
can, if we can collectively, uh.
(19:14):
More people, more individuals canpick up on these ideas and, and, uh,
uh, help their local environmentsand groups to, to, uh, practice it.
Yeah.
And in Bitcoin we sacrifice goats.
You know, whenever a goat, agreatest of all time thinker, uh,
starts shit coining, for instance.
(19:34):
We have to slay ourheroes and sacrifice them.
Yeah, that's not foreshadowinganything about you.
Is it Knu?
I certainly hope not.
Uh, yeah.
And, uh.
The, the proper sacrifice here.
Like the point here is that, uh,delayed gratification sacrificing
your time now for, for, uh, uh,future gratification, that that is the
(19:59):
proper way of looking at sacrifice.
Uh, uh, that is the thing thatactually yields result when you,
when you sacrifice something.
Yeah.
Great.
Great point here.
Okay.
Uh, onto the next one.
Uh, and, uh, and I, I, I think, I thinkI'll just say here, 'cause this is gonna
be a, it's not like a, uh, sometimesparagraphs are going to be relating
(20:23):
to the one previously in a way thatsort of is, we'll, we'll just remember
that this came after the last one.
Yep.
So
it's rooted in physics.
For every action there isan equally large reaction.
Trade is at the very core of whatwe are and the tools we use to
conduct trade matter a lot tothe outcome of each transaction.
(20:48):
is our primary tool for expressingvalue to each other, and if the
creation of money is somewhat corruptor unethical, that wrought spreads down
throughout society from top to bottom.
Shit flows downhill asthe expression goes.
Can.
Uh, yeah.
Uh, if I was to write this book again,now I wouldn't use the word, uh, I
(21:09):
wouldn't have used the word physics,just, and the, the reason I would would
avoid it is not because I don't agreewith that, that every action has an
equally big, uh, reaction, but thatI think it's important to distinguish
between human action and all other.
All other branches of science.
Uh, physics is an empiricalscience, uh, ology is not.
(21:33):
which is also, by the way, whyBitcoin is not digital energy.
Uh, I, I, I don't like that phrasing.
I think it's, uh, waymore complex than that.
Uh, but we we're going to get into,uh, some other, examples like this,
uh, where I use like physics metaphorsthat I, I will try to explain as
(21:53):
best as I can, why they're flawed.
They might be good to just easesomeone into this new way of thinking,
but, uh, uh, at the end of the day,all, all physics metaphors, uh,
for Bitcoin are basically wrong.
Fair enough, but I mean, I mean, yeah.
Good to kind of point it out.
And, and again, like wrongnessis subjective, also sort of, uh,
(22:20):
the metaphors themselves, if theyhelp people understand things
better, they're not wrong in thesense of being empirically wrong.
In those cases, they, they helppeople the understand the concept,
and I don't think that's wrong.
Now there they might be, uh.
Like objectively wrong, butsub subjectively, right?
(22:40):
Uh, if, if that makes anysense, if they're, uh,
helpful.
subjectively helpful as a toolof understanding other stuff.
something on your, jo on your journey.
But this is, I, I think this paragraph,like it kind of explains itself.
It's not very complicated.
If money printing goes on, uh,everything else gets corrupt.
(23:01):
Um, and this is where I'd liketo recommend, uh, a guy that I
recently interviewed, uh, JoeRogers, uh, his, uh, movie.
What is the problem?
There's little animated movie.
Uh, if you, if you Google.
Uh, what is the problem?
You, you'll, uh, get a verygood basic e explanation of what
(23:21):
happens when, when, uh, the statesstart running the money printer.
Yeah.
Good.
And actually this is a good time to pointout that, that we're, we're actually
with the Bitcoin Infinity Academy.
We're we're being quite a bitmore, uh, uh, on time with,
with this, like this episode.
We're recording itright now on a Saturday.
This is gonna be out on Monday.
I. Uh, but our Bitcoin Infinity show,we, we have a big backlog and we, we
(23:46):
take a lot of time, um, to, to releasethe, the episodes and, and get them out
just for the, uh, I don't know the, thedifficulties of, of life and all this.
So, uh, we might reference thingsthat haven't actually come out yet,
but we're, we're gonna stay on timeand fairly topical with, with these,
uh, academy episodes, which is, whichis gonna be gonna be pretty fun.
(24:07):
But.
Uh, yeah, I agree.
And I mean, uh, uh, another thingtoo is that, is that we're going
to be, um, touching on topicsthat are better explored later.
And I think we know that sometimes, uh,that, that we go deeper into something.
So I think, uh, bear with us, if,if you want to hear a little bit
more about something specific thatwe're, we're talking about here,
(24:28):
maybe our answer is going to bea little bit of like, Hey, like.
Tune in to, to a, a, a later chapter here.
But we we're also happy to, to,I think, flesh some things out
independent of, uh, of being tiedto a book, uh, a chapter, right?
Yeah, or, or just join theacademy and pose a question in
the group and we will bring it up.
Uh, yeah, that, that's,that's what I was getting at.
(24:49):
Like, uh, uh, we're, we're happy to,to discuss things a little more kind
of outta band, but I, but I thinkwe'll go, we will hit them also in
depth, uh, as, as the ideas come up.
So, um, yeah.
Uh, the, the, uh, these earlierbooks are thought of idea embryos
for what was to come later, uh,and, and culminating in clown world.
We'll, we'll get to that.
(25:11):
Yeah.
When, when we get to, when we get toclown world, uh, we're going deep.
It's gonna
Yeah, this, this, uh, academy isall about delayed gratification.
There we go.
Good.
Good.
Okay.
Onto the next one.
So what is money, or rather, what oughtmoney to be in order for two persons to
(25:33):
interact when a mutual coincidence ofneeds is absent, a medium of exchange is
needed in order to execute a transaction?
A mutual coincidence of needsmight be, you need my three
goats and I need your cow.
Or even both of us need a hug.
In the absence of a physical goodor service suitable for a specific
transaction, money can fulfillthe role of a medium of exchange.
(25:56):
What most people fail to realize is thatthe value of money, just as the value of
everything else, is entirely subjective.
You don't have to spend it.
the problem with every incarnation ofmoney that mankind has ever tried is
that its value always gets diluted overtime due to inflation in various forms.
Inflation makes traditional money,a bad store of value and money needs
(26:18):
to be a good store of value, inorder to be a good investment, or in
other words, a good substitute foryour time and your effort over time.
Bitcoin tries to solve this problemby introducing absolute scarcity to
the world, a concept that mankindhas never encountered before.
To comprehend what such a discoverymeans for the future, one needs to
understand the fundamentals of whatvalue is and that we assign a certain
(26:41):
value to everything we encounter inlife, whether we admit it or not.
In short, we assign valueto everything we do.
Value is derived from supply anddemand and supply is objective
while demand is subjective.
Great summary.
Thank you.
Um, I mean, this is at thecore of what Bitcoin is, right?
(27:03):
You have a potential infinite, uh,demand and an absolutely finite supply.
And if you combine, those twonumber can only go up forever.
That's, that is the conclusion here.
So while that seems utopian.
You're living through it rightnow, whether you want to or not,
you can either be on this train ornot, and nothing stops this train.
(27:25):
So, uh, the, the here, uh, uh, a crucialpoint here is that no civilization ever
happens before money is discovered.
Uh, so there, there is no bartercivilization, civilizations don't.
Emerge from just border.
You need something, youneed a medium of exchange.
(27:47):
Uh, and, uh, my, my favorite de definitionof, uh, money is Hans harm Hopper's
definition, which is that it's, it'sthe best insurance against uncertainty,
uh, uh, available or the best defenseagainst uncertainty available because
that's all money is supposed to do.
It's supposed to give you easeof mind so that you can go into
(28:08):
the future knowing that you can.
Use the fruits of your labor later,and exchange it for something else
that you need more than the other guy.
Like, it's, it's very simple like that.
Uh, it's just that we have, uh,all of human history tainted by bad
money and by, uh, corrupted money,unethical money, whatever you may
(28:29):
call it, uh, inflationary money.
so in, in that sense, Bitcoinrewrites all of history.
Like, uh, we've never hada perfect representation of
history before, but now we do.
Yeah.
Damn.
I mean like, uh, the whole thing here.
When, when you say that, uh,I, I was going to that, yeah.
(28:49):
There are times in history when themoney is a little bit better, and of
course we never had the technologicalstack for Bitcoin to exist before.
We needed some kind of, some kind of.
Mechanism of the technology.
I mean, we're not gonna get into a historylesson of what had to come before Bitcoin,
but, but basically the, the proof ofwork mechanism and, and coordinating
(29:12):
different, uh, um, nodes in a network.
Like you couldn't have had Bitcoin if youcan't communicate with people, basically.
That I, I would say.
From my point of view, that istrue and untrue at the same time.
And the reason is, if everyonewas absolutely 100% honest all the
time, we could have had Bitcoin.
(29:34):
So the only reason we need all thetechnology and all the proof of work
and all, all of these things is toprevent people from being dishonest.
But if people just had beenhonest to begin with, we
wouldn't have needed Bitcoin.
Uh, that's the way I view that.
Oh, that's a, that's a clip right there.
I think maybe, let's see here.
(29:56):
Let's, um, let's, let's continue.
I think
free trade emerges out of humaninteraction naturally, and it is
not an idea that was forced uponus at any specific point in time.
The idea that markets should be regulatedand governed on the other hand was
breach rate, is just the absence offorceful interference in an interaction
(30:17):
between two humans by a third party.
There's nothing intrinsicallywrong or immoral about an
exchange of a good or service.
every objection to this is a byproductof the current global narrative, a
narrative that tells us that the world isdivided into different nations, and that
people in these nations operate undervarious sets of laws depending on what
jurisdiction they find themselves in.
(30:38):
All of these ideas are manmade, no speciesexcept humans does this to themselves.
Animals do trade, butthey don't do politics.
what did you mean by this paragraph?
Cano?
Yes, it's, it's to, uh, emphasize thepoint that, capitalism is not optional.
Like it's, it's not, it'snot a manmade concept.
(31:00):
It's, it's something that emergesnaturally from human behavior, uh, and
even animal behavior to some extent.
The, the, the term capital good refers tosomething that you can use at a later time
or use in the production of other goods,ultimately leading to a consumer good,
to the production of a consumer good.
(31:21):
And accumulating these thingsand trading them with one another
is what leads to civilization.
That is the process of civilization.
So saying that, uh, capitalism isevil, is, is a very, very strange,
is very, very strange to me.
And I think the reason the word has,been so skewed over the years is, uh,
(31:42):
is like the world, the word liberalism.
It ought to, it ought to mean likepeople are free to do whatever the
fuck they want, but it doesn't in themodern context of the world of the word.
So the same is true forcapitalism, I think.
I think the reason theword is so tainted is, uh.
It's because of money printing at theend of the day that, that some, some
(32:05):
asshole has been able to print moneyand then blame the failures of the free
market, so-called failures of the freemarket, which are really failures of
the boom and bust, boom, bust, boomcycle that follows from money printing
and political interventionism, likethis is always the root of the problem.
It's always marketed as the remedy or,or the antidote to the, the, or the,
(32:30):
the solution to the problem, uh, whenit's actually the underlying cause.
and I think most people get thiswrong because we're constantly
being bombarded by, uh, state fundedinformation channels that give us this
worldview, public schooling for is one.
And, uh, uh.
(32:50):
Government subsidizes media outlets.
It's another and everyone workingthere, they, they're doing their best.
And I think they try their best togive accurate information to people,
but they're also brainwashed by thenotion, of by, by politics and by the
money being, corrupt to begin with.
(33:10):
Uh, skews everything.
Yeah, and I mean, I, I think a, anuance here also that, that I think you
were getting at is, is that, is that.
we call capitalism, especiallythe most capitalistic places.
Uh, it's, it's all the, all theproblems really just come from the,
the, the government intervention.
And, and this is a, this is one of thosethings getting into the political realm
(33:34):
of, of this, the, the reason I think whypeople who get into Austrian economics
eventually start to lean, libertarian, or.
Right.
Or something an Arco capitalisteven is just that it becomes
clear that that interventionsin the market are the problem.
(33:56):
Uh, and, and it's really what makesthe, the capitalism I. Not work.
The free trade betweenindividuals not work.
The people who are closest to themoney printer are deciding to give
money to different people, companies,groups, picking winners essentially,
and they're also choosing to tax.
(34:18):
One group or another differently.
So it's picking winners and losersand, and we don't have any idea of
what it would really look like in,in a, in a real capitalist system.
I mean, I, I saw a breakdown of, I. allthe ways that, uh, that the US healthcare
system is, is interfered with all the waydown from, uh, in insurance being mandated
(34:43):
so that, so that, uh, hospitals can billbasically whatever they want because
insurance companies have to pay for it.
And then therefore insurancecompanies raise their premiums.
A whole ton, thereby making it moreexpensive for people to afford insurance.
And it just, all, it tricklesdown, uh, monopolies on patents,
uh, um, enforced regulations thatmean that smaller companies cannot
(35:07):
compete in the medical space.
Just, just a crazy number of interventionsthat, that distort everything.
And so the so-called.
Big capitalist healthcare system isn'ta capitalist at all, and theoretically
the cure is going to be more socialism.
That's really not going to work.
(35:27):
I think I.
No, and this is, there are so many layersto this, so it's sort of impossible to to
imagine a world without interventionism,except if you're a Bitcoin and do a lot
of hanging out with other Bitcoiners.
I mean, what we're doing right now,Luke, like you and I, are trading our
time and effort with one another andit's a mutually beneficial thing, and.
(35:49):
So, so is the audience here,everyone watching this does
so by their own volition.
They, they are, they are herebecause they want to be here.
And who, why couldn't theentire world work like that?
Why couldn't everything beconsensual and voluntary?
And thinking that some things haveto be enforced is a product of
(36:13):
that very same kind of enforcement.
We only think that becausewe have been forced to.
Live in systems where, where you drawthose conclusions, uh, from necessity
because there are assholes with gunsthreatening you to, to, to take you
away and put you in a cell if you don'tdo what they, they think is wrong or
(36:35):
right, because at the end of the day.
Who is to say what is aproblem with the market?
Like that is entirely subjective too.
Like, who gets to set the framing?
Like this is a, this company is too big.
I mean, says who, even, what, what, whatpeople view as the most capitalistic
institutions of the world, like,uh, multinational corporations.
(36:57):
They are the size, they aremostly because of interventionism,
quenching all the competition.
So, and, and, and the, theinterventionism helps these large
entities, it helps them, uh, formartificial monopolies in, in all of.
All areas of life, by, by justdisallowing every potential
(37:20):
competitor to challenge 'em.
That that's the main mechanismthat keeps, uh, that, that, that,
that makes monopolies happen atall on a completely free market.
Uh, theoretically a monopolysituation cannot happen.
uh, which is counterintuitive to mostpeople, and we'll get into the weeds of
this in, in later books, but, uh, thisis not a discussion for now, I guess.
(37:43):
No, I, I'm, uh, uh, my only remarkhere is that I'm, I'm enjoying
how spicy we're already getting.
It's not so spicy, but like,it's, it's getting a little bit
spicy at this point already.
So yeah, we're, uh, we're having fun.
This, this series is gonna bean absolute, absolute blast.
I'm already, I'm alreadyreally enjoying it.
Yeah.
Let's, uh, let's continue.
(38:03):
Bitcoin and the idea of truly soundabsolutely scarce money inevitably
makes you question human societalstructures in general and the
nature of money in particular.
Once you realize that thisPandora's box of an idea can't
be closed again by anyone,everything is put into perspective.
Once you realize that it is now possiblefor anyone with a decently sized brain to
(38:25):
store any amount of wealth in that brain,or to beam wealth anonymously to any other
brain in the world without anyone elseever knowing everything you are ever told
about human society is turned on its head.
Everything you thought youknew about taxes, social class,
capitalism, socialism, economics,or even democracy falls apart like
(38:47):
a house of cards in a hurricane.
It is in fact impossible to comprehendthe impact Bitcoin will have on the
planet without also understandingbasic Austrian economics and what
the Libertarian worldview stems from.
Okay.
This, uh, reminds me that Pandora'sbox sentence there reminds me
(39:09):
of something Michael Dunworth.
Uh, my friend Michael Dunworth saidon a panel we were on at Bitcoin
alive in Sydney, uh, just a couple ofweeks back, and that is that Bitcoin
is the first thing that humanity hasever built, that we can't, uh, break.
We, we cannot undo this.
Like we have built somethingthat we cannot stop.
(39:31):
And not wanting to, to own abit of that, or to be part of
that, uh, is just insanity.
Like, uh, I, I mean, time will tell,but everything points to Bitcoin
being completely unbreakable,which is, uh, which is just mind
blowing in itself, isn't it?
(39:52):
It, it completely is.
And I mean, this is another one ofthese things where I just get back
to, uh, when you get it, you get it.
When you take the orangepill, you can't untake it.
You know?
It, it, it, it's, it's, it's likeyou've seen behind the curtain and
just nothing, nothing else, uh, evermakes sense anymore except in, except
(40:13):
in the contents of context of Bitcoin.
And so, yeah.
Yeah, like, uh, comingto these realizations is
important and, and, you know.
Uh, I, I say it, I say it a lot becauseI think it's, it's important to say this,
like the reason we talk about this stuffas much as we do and we go deep into it.
I mean, there, there's, there's somany layers to this, this, this,
(40:34):
we're doing this for our own benefit.
We're doing this for thebenefit of everyone listening.
Right?
And, and I mean, the, I think my,my assumption is anyone who's.
Listening to this at, at this point is,is going to be already pretty, pretty
deep into the Bitcoin rabbit hole already.
But wouldn't it be awesome if, ifthis is like one of these things
that you know, hey, you, you, you'vejust got your first Bitcoin here.
(40:56):
Check out, check out this series on,on sovereignty through mathematics, uh,
and, and really dig deep into this stuff.
I mean, what's the impact that,that us doing this could have
in, in the future here, but.
Not, not specifically this, thisseries, but just all the talk about
Bitcoin and getting better at theideas and understanding them better.
(41:18):
yeah, like conviction deepening isimportant and, and being able to
explain these things to other peopleis important because even though it
can't break it, we don't know howlong it's gonna take before, before
the world is overtaken by Bitcoin
Before, before it breaks everything else.
or it breaks everything else.
Yeah.
So, no, I mean, I mean, I, I just keepgetting more, more, I. Not bullish.
(41:40):
Exactly.
It's the wrong word.
It's just, when we talk about this stuff,it gets me excited about where we, where
we're going to be, uh, in the future here.
when, when more and more people thinkabout these ideas and, and start to
change the way they live their lives.
Because may, maybe that's,maybe that's another thing here.
I definitely live life in adifferent way after discovering
(42:03):
Bitcoin and after seeing that, that.
Everything, all the ways of operatingbefore were just, were just a hamster's
wheel to get ahead in the rat race orwhatever other metaphor makes sense.
But you figure out Bitcoin and somany other things start to make
more sense and, and you just liveyour life a totally different way.
And I don't know, I'm, I'm justhopeful that, uh, through discussing
(42:26):
these ideas, more people cancome to the same realization.
I don't have much moreof a point than that.
It's just, it's just alwaysawesome to think about.
I, I, I view it as like the, the lifeI led before and, and like, like life.
How you view life ingeneral before Bitcoin.
Is that success always the, the, thisfalse notion that success necessarily
(42:46):
has to come at someone else's expense,which Bitcoin sort of points out
that that is completely 100% false.
Uh, eh.
One person's success can benefit everyoneelse on Earth simultaneously, if we just
start using the, the proper denominator,like it's, it's as simple as that.
(43:07):
That was a complicated, uh, uh,and, uh, outlandish statement.
We, we'll get into the weeds ofwhy in the upcoming chapters.
Exactly.
Let's, let's, yes, we'll get,we'll get into it more later.
Uh, last, uh, last paragraph here.
And, uh, interesting anecdote I thinkcoming up or interesting thought nugget.
(43:30):
I. Imagine growing up in an Amishcommunity until your 16th birthday,
you're purposely completelyshielded off from the outside world.
Information about how the worldreally works is very limited to you.
Since internet access and even TVs andradios are forbidden within the community.
Well, from a certainperspective, we're all Amish.
(43:51):
How money really works is neveremphasized enough through traditional
media or public educational institutions.
Most people believe that the monetarysystem is somehow sound and fair
when there's overwhelming evidenceto the contrary all over the globe.
yourself, do you remember being taughtabout the origins of money in school?
(44:11):
I, me neither.
I don't believe that there's somegreat global conspiracy behind the
fact that the ethics of money creationisn't a school subject, but rather that
plain old ignorance is to blame forthe lack of such a subject primarily.
As soon as their math skilllimit is reached, people seem
to stop caring about numbers.
The difference between a million anda billion seems lost on a depressingly
(44:34):
large part of the world's population.
In the chapters ahead, we'll explorethe pitfalls of central banking, how
money pops into existence, and howinflation keeps us all on a leash.
Okay.
Yeah, the difference between a millionand a billion is about a billion.
(44:54):
Uh, the, the Amish parthere is, is funny, uh, like.
Do you know why the Amish, uh,weren't affected by Covid at all?
Yeah, go ahead.
they didn't have a tv.
They didn't have TVs, so that's whylike the, so there's, if anything,
I've changed my views on theAmish, uh, since I wrote this book.
(45:17):
I think they're pretty based,uh, I, I mean they, they, they're
not worried about climate changebecause they don't have TVs.
Like, uh, they, they, they live life.
Uh, and you, you may say that it's,uh, ignorant and, and like, uh,
shielded from the rest of the worldand they, they're not getting all
the information, but they're alsonot getting any of the propaganda.
(45:39):
So, so, uh, uh, so it'sa double-sided coin.
Uh, I personally believe youshould like, uh, have access to
as much information as possible.
It's just that take care of your filters,uh, filter the information properly.
That can be hard to do.
One, one trick.
One simple trick is to alwaysfollow the money, to see what
(46:00):
people's real intentions are.
Watch their actions rather thanlistening to their words, especially
politicians and bureaucrats.
Uh, and uh, yeah, the Amish aregood at that, so good on them.
I.
Absolutely.
And well, you know, I think, Ithink the other point you have
here is that like the, none of thisbeing covered in school, I mean,
there's something real really there.
(46:23):
Like, uh, like honestly, it's,it's hard to, to not see some grand
conspiracy here to kind of just shuteveryone up and, and keep us all in
our little boxes because, because.
This stuff really should be fundamental.
The fundamentals of how to livelife are what should be taught
in school, not, not esotericthings that might be useful later.
(46:44):
I think much of mathematics in, in, inschool beyond real basics actually is
pretty darn useless to most people, liketrigonometry and things like that, but
they completely gloss over the, the, uh.
of money and how to, how to use moneyand, and all of these useful things.
(47:05):
Right?
It's, it's, it's so hard.
I don't know.
What do you think?
any, any inflation is theft.
I mean, read Rothberg, people like it.
It's always theft.
A violation has happened if prices go up.
Uh, and this is so hard forpeople to understand because
prices have always gone up.
Everyone living today, no oneliving today has ever experienced
(47:26):
falling prices in anything butsay like computers, uh, which are.
Have such a technological, fasttechnological deflation that,
uh, the, the prices actuallygo down even in fiat terms, but
everything else should go down too.
It's as simple as that.
And if you're denominatingBitcoin, it does so.
(47:50):
Yeah.
And this is what this is all about.
This is what this course isabout, to teach people, teach
people this, these things.
And, uh, another way of viewing the world,uh, I mean also with a conspiracy thing.
I would, uh, say never attribute to malicewhat can be explained by retardation.
(48:10):
Like I, I think, I thinkthat, uh, oftentimes it's
just that the whole system is.
Uh, incentives are set the way they are.
And like even the, even money printinglike is not someone, uh, conspiring to,
to, uh, uh, manipulate everyone else.
(48:32):
It's just that the temptation,the incentive to print money
if you can, is too strong.
So humans have never been able to resistthe temptation to take a little more
for yourself than, uh, than you areactually entitled to, which is why we
can't leave anyone in charge of themoney print because the psychopaths will.
(48:53):
Like flock to those positions in societywhere they, where they get to use others.
So, so a psychopath is bound toend up in controlling the money
printer at the end of the day.
And, and this is why it's, I. Theincentives were there before the
malice, if you know what I mean.
Before, before the bad guycame there, the incentive to,
to become a bad guy was there.
(49:15):
So, uh, it can be explained bythat, uh, what Bitcoin does, it is
it provides us with a system whereactually following the rules is more
profitable than trying to break them.
Uh, which, which completelychanges the incentive.
So, so.
If, if, if there's anything,any such thing as a positive
(49:37):
conspiracy, this would be it.
Like we're, we're, we're actually schemingto make people behave in different ways.
It's, uh, yeah.
No, it's great.
I mean, the, the finding is,is that good intentions, people
can have good intentions, right?
Like, uh, it, it can be completelyreasonable to think that it's, it
(49:58):
would be nice to order the worldin such a way that everyone gets
everything taken care of and.
Society runs all smoothly and, and, andall this, but the, the sinister nature
is that, is that people who can takeadvantage of such, such systems will,
and I think we'll explore those ideas.
More in the future.
(50:19):
But for now, I think I, I think thiswas a, an excellent chapter and,
uh, uh, to our, to our listeners.
Hey, we're, we're, we'redone the chapter now.
Um, go, leave us a comment.
Tell us what you think.
If you're watching on YouTube or Rumble,go, go, leave us a comment there.
Uh, if you've, if you've been listeningon Fountain or something, uh, uh, send
(50:39):
us a tweet or a post on nos about it.
Uh, let us know what you thinkand, uh, looking forward to
continuing the conversation.
But.
Yes, and, and aboutcontinuing the conversation.
The road to hell is paved.
With good intentions as we knowwhich, what, what is why I think
there's a, a highway to helland a just a stairway to heaven.
(51:00):
Uh, and speaking of, we'll get into oneof my most controversial chapters ever,
I think next week or, or not next week.
This is coming out like just acouple of days after this, which is
chapter two of Sovereignty throughmathematics called Financial Atheism.
And, uh, I'll explain how my viewshave changed on that since I wrote
(51:21):
it and what I still agree withand what I might disagree with.
So looking forward to that and to definingthe word, the words and all all the stuff.
So, yeah.
Welcome back next time.
Welcome back next time.
Perfect.
Uh, I, I think I'll, I'll, I was gonnaask you, did you have any last words,
but I think you just, just covered that.
Am I right?
(51:41):
Yeah.
These were my last words.
These were, these were.
All right.
Well, hey, so before, before we wrapup, I think we'll just, we'll just say,
uh, a big shout out to, first of all,everyone who's joined the academy so far.
If you wanna be involved in the, thediscussions and support what we're doing.
The easiest way, easiest way,is to, to join the academy.
(52:02):
Either join the specific courseor, or pick up the Metral Atium
membership so that you haveaccess to absolutely everything.
All the details are on our Geyser page.
Er Fund slash Project slash infinityand all the details are there.
Uh, also thank you to Plan B Networkfor, for supporting this, this endeavor.
(52:22):
It's how we can make it available forfree to everyone, both on noster and in
the the video audio segment we have here.
So check out plan B network.
For more fantastic educationalresources, and we're really happy
to be, be a part of this initiative.
Uh, a short, uh, a condensed version ora bridged version of, of these recordings
is also gonna be available on the,the Plan B network, YouTube channel.
(52:46):
Rumble channel.
and Rumble, it's, it's both.
it's both.
Yeah.
Yeah.
yeah.
Okay.
So that's Plan B Network.
Thanks again to them.
And, and the other oneof course is Bit Box.
They've been a, they've been a long timesupporter of both of our shows also now,
so, so big, A big shout out to them.
Go to Bit box.swiss/infinitifor a discount on the Bit
(53:08):
Box zero two Hardware wallet.
Our, our favorite hardwarewallet at Fantastic for newbies.
Super easy to use.
So yeah, it's, um, thanks.
Bit box.
Anything else on, on,uh, those topics there?
K.
Yes.
A final thing for this specificchapter that we just went through,
the sovereignty through mathematics,there's a little animation made by Yoni
Appleberg, uh, narrated by guy, guy one.
(53:31):
So if you search for Bitcoin, every,uh, everything, a trade on, uh,
YouTube, you'll find that video.
Uh, yeah, I highly recommend that.
And all of Yoni's, othervideos for that matter.
Uh, so.
Check out that, and, uh, as Lukesaid, leave a comment, like,
subscribe and brush your teeth.
See you next time.
(53:52):
Yeah, but we're nottotally done yet, are we?
No.
Well, we could be, Iguess, but, but, uh, no.
Uh, uh, just a reminder, everywhereyou can, uh, everywhere you can
see us this upcoming year, we'regonna be at a whole bunch of.
Your conferences, uh, I thinkyou've got a slightly more full
schedule, Cano, so you wanna tell us
Oh yes.
Uh, thanks for that reminder.
(54:15):
So, uh, now in May I'm going toIreland to a Bitcoin conference
there, Bitcoin, Ireland.
And then we're both goingto Prague, uh, for B2C.
Prague, uh, use.
This goes for every singleconference and everything else.
You can buy Bitcoinrelated on the internet.
Really use code infinity for adiscount, especially for Prague now.
(54:36):
Uh, and uh, then we're going to, uh.
Uh, Bitcoin Rodeo in, in Calgary, Canada.
And after that, uh, we're,I'm going to Budapest and you
are going to Riga after that.
We're organizing a conference inHelsinki, Finland, in the, at the end
of August, uh, or the middle of August.
(54:57):
So, uh, yeah, Baltic, KBA and Istanbul.
Uh, no, not Istanbul, Budapest.
Uh, I travel too much.
Uh, our, uh, on the eighth and 9th ofAugust and the B2C, hell in Helsinki
is on the 15th and 16th, I believe.
I think I got that right.
You did get it right.
Yeah, exactly.
No, no.
Uh, really great, really greatconference schedule coming up.
(55:19):
Uh, come say hello.
Uh, get a book signed if you want.
Uh, yeah, we'll, we'll be there.
Looking forward to it.
And uh,
And Bulgaria and Logano.
Don't forget, Logano, like thePlan B conference in Logano
is coming up in October.
If we're going throughthe entire schedule here,
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think the, we're, we're confirmingthe Bulgaria and, and, and ano
(55:42):
here, but I'm, I'm sure that, I'msure we'll, we'll wrap those up.
Looking forward to, to all of it.
So, uh, but come to, come toHelsinki though, if you can.
Seriously, we're, we'rereally excited about this one.
We're gonna, we're gonna havelots of fantastic side events.
There's a ton of greatspeakers lined up already.
So this is, this is anotherone of these ways that, uh, you
can get the, the most out of.
Uh, you know, your relationshipwith us and, and all this
(56:05):
come to come to Helsinki.
Um, yeah, we, we'd reallylove to see you there.
It's, it's my adopted hometown and I'mreally excited to, to show it off to
International Bitcoiners and we're reallytrying to raise awareness and adoption.
In Finland and the, theNordics more generally.
So that's, uh, another way you can havea big impact is to, to come to Helsinki
(56:28):
and, and, and show, show, uh, everyonehere, um, what Bitcoin is all about.
So that's the, the short pitch.
You'll be hearing it constantlyuntil the conference, but
we're really excited about it.
Right.
Knu.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
The really short pitchwould be go to hell people.
I don't have anything more to add.
(56:49):
So is is this it?
Are we, uh, gonna put aribbon on this one now?
I think we're gonna put aribbon on this one right now.
Alright.
Thank you Luke.
See you next time.
Thanks Knut, and thank you for listening.
See you next time.
Hello everyone and welcome to theBitcoin Infinity Academy, brought to
you by Plan B Network and Bit Box.
I'm Kwan and I'm here today,as always with Luke De Wolf.
How are we doing today, Luke?
Doing great, knu.
Thanks.
This is really exciting.
This first chapter here of sovereigntythrough mathematics, everything a trade.
This is, uh, yeah.
(00:21):
Uh, I think we both weresaying we, we already.
Know it basically by heart.
It's, it's that memorable.
So I'm excited to dive into it.
Yes.
So shall we just get at it?
Uh, I think that's, uh,how we do this, right?
I, I, I think so.
So, so I think I'll just, I'll justremind if you want to follow along
the, the chapters available on Noster,uh, we've got a nice primal link.
(00:43):
I think that we'll drop in the descriptionhere and learn more about how to
join the academy at our Geyser page.
All the links are in the description,so I think with that, shall we dive in?
Absolutely.
Okay, let's do it.
So this is the firsttime we're doing this.
I'll just explain that, but I thinkthe, the format here is gonna make
a lot of sense once we get into it.
(01:03):
Uh, basically I'm going to be readingeach paragraph and then Knut and I
were, we're gonna discuss it and,uh, see what ideas come out of it.
So yeah, let's, uh, let's just do it.
Everything at Trade chapter one ofSovereignty through Mathematics.
All human interactioncan be defined as trade.
(01:25):
Yes.
All human interaction, everytime a human being interacts with
another, an exchange takes place.
In every conversation we have, weexchange information with each other.
Even the most trivial information isof some value to the other person.
If information didn't have any valueto us, we wouldn't talk to each other.
(01:46):
what the other person says isvaluable to us, or we find it
valuable to give information to them.
Oftentimes, both at the core of all humaninteraction that isn't violent, both
parties perceive that they gain somevalue from it, otherwise, the interaction
wouldn't have taken place at all.
Civilizations begin this way.
Two people finding it valuableto interact with each other.
(02:08):
That's all it takes.
Knut.
What did you mean by that?
I, I think this is, uh, the perfectway to start your, uh, Bitcoin journey.
Understanding the simple fact about humanbeings and how we interact that, uh,
we, we have two means of communicationo of interacting with one another.
(02:30):
One is communication, and theother is violence or aggression.
And, uh, as we are going to see over thecourse of all of these courses, Consensual
or like consensual, uh, interactions.
Voluntary interactions are alwayspreferable to violent ones.
Bitcoin is peace.
(02:50):
Bitcoin is piece.
Yeah, I mean, the, the, the funny thinghere is I, I, I. Really like what you
say about this is the perfect start.
Uh, completely agree withthat because, but, but it's,
it's counterintuitive, right?
Like the, the message that Bitcoinis like all this in, in the
mainstream that Bitcoin is all about.
Crypto and, and all of this like numbergo up, uh, everything related to that
(03:13):
and no, like, it, uh, it, it's a totalmind shift when we approach Bitcoin
from the philosophical perspective or,or that Bitcoin is actually the result
of coming to the understanding of theworld in a completely different way.
And I mean, this is what Ioriginally liked about your books
before we'd even met was, was thatj just an introduction to these.
(03:37):
Alternate approaches to thinking aboutthe world that ultimately is, is a
austral economics is, is at the, the base.
Right.
But, but I didn't know that.
And isn't Al isn't it basicallyalso true that you didn't know
that too at the time of writing?
no, when I, when I wrote thischapter, I hadn't really done a deep
dive into Austrian economics yet.
So in hindsight, I'm very proud thatI had come to, uh, these conclusions
(04:00):
without knowing, too much aboutMees and Roth Board and all of that.
But, uh, it, it is like w it isso simple and I think everyone who
just thinks about these things, uh,will inevitably, uh, end up with.
Drawing these conclusions becausethese are things that you cannot
argue with, uh, without runninginto a logical contradiction.
(04:24):
And that's the basisof Austrian economics.
And it's not really debatable.
If, if, if you could debate it,like, like I'd, I'd love to see
the ideas of Austrian economics,economics challenged somehow because.
To be honest, some ofthe axioms may be wrong.
It's just that they are built aroundbeing not being wrong because they're,
(04:49):
you can't really argue against them.
That's why they're axioms like, uh,so, so, uh, yeah, first paragraph.
First paragraph.
Uh, we'll, we'll continue, I think,uh, quite a bit of discussion on, on
Austrian economics as, as we go here.
So I'll, I'll.
Save, I'll save some of my additionalcomments on the matter for for
(05:10):
other times when we're gonna hit.
Things more directly.
And this is gonna be a theme herealso, that, that we're going to hit
some of the ideas multiple times.
You know, like, uh, it, it comesup over and over again in the
course of a course of your books,basically, but, but we're always
gonna hit it from a slightly differentangle and, and build on the ideas.
I think that's what we've been soexcited about as, as we go here.
(05:32):
So, I'll, I'll move on to the,uh, to the next paragraph here.
So what constitutes value?
What we find valuableis entirely subjective.
A comforting hug, for example, probablyhas a different value to a 2-year-old
than it has to a withered army general.
Even the most basic actionsuch as breathing encapsulates
(05:53):
the whole value spectrum.
We tend to forget that even a singlebreath of air can be of immense value
to us under the right circumstances.
A single breath is worth more thananything on the planet to a desperate,
free diver, trapped under ice while worthnothing to a person with a death wish.
In clean forest air on a sunny summer day,value is derived from supply and demand.
(06:15):
And demand is always subjective.
Supply is not.
So supply and demand.
Demand is always subjective.
Supply is not really good.
Encapsulation there.
I think this is anothernew thing for most people.
Wouldn't you say.
Yeah, absolutely.
Uh, and, and this is sort of howtrade is the bridge between, uh, the
(06:37):
subjective and the objective betweenthe, will and wants of people and
the, uh, the world around us really.
And why, why property likesowning something is, is what?
What bridges the two worlds andtrading, trading objects with one
another and trading goods and services.
That's, that's really it.
(06:58):
And there's another thing I thoughtof when, when hearing this again, and
it's the, um, the concept of breathing.
Breathing can be a human action,but doesn't necessarily have to be.
And this, uh, here we go into deep,uh, Austrian economics, I guess.
Because it's about the distinctionbetween action and just instinct.
Uh, so most of the time when youbreathe, you don't think about it.
(07:21):
You don't do it with purpose.
And this is how, uh, the, uh,Austrian School differentiates
between just basic instinct and likeanimalistic behaviors and action.
Because human action is, purposefulbehavior is the very first
axiom of, of Austrian economics.
So if you do something with intent.
(07:42):
then it's an action.
And you can also not do something,uh, with intent, which is, which
is why inaction is also an action.
But yeah.
Uh, points.
Main point of the paragraphI would say is that demand is
subjective and supply is not.
Yeah.
And well, an interesting thinghere, since we're kind of going
(08:04):
into some, some weeds here.
I, I think it's really tothe, to the disservice of.
A economics that, that's eventhe terminology used at all.
And I think that's thebiggest misconception about
Austrian economics in general.
Uh, that it's, it's really just describinghow the world I. And that's what makes
it entirely different from all mainstreameconomics, which is really this, this
(08:29):
predictive price modeling and, and, andtrying, trying to, um, trying to think
about how the world is going to work ifyou make all these manipulative changes.
But Austrian economics really just is adescription of how the world works and.
When that clicked to me that that, youknow, kind of more libertarian types and
the, the kind of political conclusionsI think of, of, of thinking in an
(08:54):
Austrian way is, is actually differentfrom the Austrian economics itself.
It's, it's not describing, uh, apolitical, economic, framework.
It's just describing human action, right.
it's about methodology and epistemology.
So all it does is say,is say that, uh, um.
(09:16):
All else given being equal if X theny like so, so, so that's, that's the
how, how you draw conclusions, uh,from, from this type of thinking.
And I think the reason it's not morepopular, uh, the main reason is, is all
of the confusion going on because wesay schools of economics when they're.
(09:40):
W there aren't really different schools.
There's how the world works and there'sa bunch of, uh, uh, a, a bunch of word
salads about different tasting wordsalads, about how it oughts to work or how
people think it works, but that's not it.
Uh, Aus economics is just as muchabout setting the boundaries for
(10:01):
what we can know as, as it isthe knowledge itself, like so.
Main point here is thatthis is not debatable.
Uh, value is absolutely subjective.
Uh, it's subjective betweenpeople and between situations.
Uh, um, uh, uh, a table for instance canbe a tool for a. The same person like who
(10:24):
wants to sit down and have a meal at thetable, but it can also be an obstacle.
If it's on the freeway and he is tryingto drive on the freeway, then the table
is not a useful tool, but a uh, uh, uh,an obstacle meaning I. It has a completely
different value, even a negative value.
So value is valuing stuff issomething we do all the time.
(10:46):
And these scales always change andwe always have a scale of preference
that can be ordered, like fromhighest priority to lowest priority.
But we can never measure how, how muchmore valuable one thing is to another,
just that it is more or less valuable.
This is so it can be arranged, uh,uh, ordinarily but never cardinally.
(11:11):
And this is, uh, anotherthing in Austrian economics.
Yeah.
And again, I think, I think it'sjust, just the point of that, that all
the other schools, schools are, arepeople trying to control the world.
Basically trying to impose their, theirwill and how the world ought to be.
But, but instead of just describinghow it works, and I, I, I
(11:34):
think there's a real value inunderstanding how the world works.
That that's, that's been the, the biggestthing that clicked with me when under when
understanding this stuff is that, if youcan see a little bit behind the meaning.
of why people do things isso much easier to understand.
well, yeah.
Really, really simply.
(11:55):
Why pe, why anyone does anything and,and get to the root of their motivations
and, and have a conversation withpeople and understand what's going on.
all coming back to incentives basically.
Uh, and, and, um, I think that's, Ithink that's really valuable and I
think some of the conclusions towardsthe end of this chapter, um, really
(12:16):
allude at Bitcoin's role in, trying tosmooth out some of the, the incentive
issues that we see in the system.
So, uh, I don't know, do you,do you have anything, anything
more here or should we just
I would just add that, uh, I, I don'tthink the other schools of economics
are like deliberately manipulativeand want to con control people.
(12:36):
I think they, they, they arewhat they are because, uh.
For the longest time, like peoplethought that, uh, empiricism was
the only way of doing science, like,uh, testing a, a hypothesis and, and
measuring the results in the realworld, and then adjusting the hypothesis
based on what those results were.
(12:57):
But economics is a completely different.
Science, uh, be because youcan't use empiricism to either
confirm or deny anything.
Since humans have free will, we haveno choice but to have it so humans
can decide to do something else.
The next time you measure.
Markets are always dynamic, whichforces you to use a completely different
(13:19):
method of thinking about these things.
Uh, so methodology here is,uh, is really the key to, to
understanding what's going on.
And without these thoughts,Bitcoin couldn't have existed.
Like, uh, uh, Satoshi definitely had atleast some understanding of osteo and
economics, probably a very deep one.
Otherwise, It wouldn'thave come up with Bitcoin.
(13:41):
Uh, that's my theory anyway.
Honestly, I think that's abit of a, maybe a hot take.
Just, just it, it's, I think it'simpossible to know if this was what was,
what was going on back at the, the time.
But, uh, I, I, you, you might beright, but, but, uh, maybe people can
stumble on things with Without havingthe, the knowledge and understanding.
(14:03):
Right.
Because, because you, you've saidyourself that you didn't, you
didn't, uh, you didn't ever readany meis before you wrote this book.
that's, that's true.
Like, uh, even a, a blindhen can find a golden pebble,
Bitcoin's definitely a golden pebble.
Or more than that.
Much more than
yet it's a golden goose, which youshouldn't sacrifice for kinder egg.
Yes, that's, uh, maybe an injoke, but, uh, good, good term.
(14:28):
Anyway, I think, I think let's,uh, let's tackle the next one here.
Since all of our lives are limitedby time, time is the ultimate example
of a scarce, tradable resource.
We all sell our time, we sell it toothers, and we sell it to ourselves.
Everyone sells their time either througha product that took them a certain amount
(14:49):
of time to produce or as a service.
And services are always take time.
If you are an employee on a steadypayroll, you typically sell eight hours
of your day every day to your employer.
If you're doing something you truly loveto do, that eight hour day still belongs
to you in a way since you're doingwhat you'd probably be doing anyway if
you had been forced to do it for free.
(15:12):
we sacrifice time in order toacquire something in the future.
An education, for instance, gives noimmediate reward, but can lead to a better
paying, more satisfying job in the future.
An investment is basically ourfuture self trading time with
our present self at a discount.
Once again, every humaninteraction viewed as a trade.
(15:36):
K.
Yeah, I, I love the, themiddle of this paragraph.
Uh, it is perfectly describing whatwe're doing right now and, uh, how we
own our, our time by doing, gettingpaid for, doing what we would be doing
anyway, because we love doing it.
So, so, uh, uh.
(15:58):
That's, that's my immediatethought about this.
And also there's, there's a hinthere at, uh, medium of exchange over
time and space, which is a conceptwe get into in clown world, uh, far
off in the future for this show.
But, uh, that.
Um, you're, you're trading with yourfuture self when you're storing value.
(16:20):
So I, I don't really likethe term store of value.
I prefer medium exchange over timebecause what you're actually doing is
you're trading with your future self.
And so all, all interactionstake place in time.
So without the time dimension,you can't have any trade.
I'm, I'm still a store of value guy.
(16:41):
I like the term as a, as a descriptionand you, you know, but it, it's,
it's good to to point out thatwe're not exactly the same person.
We, we, we bicker like amarried couple all the time.
I. But, but, uh, no, no.
Uh, the medium of exchange over timeidea that, that definitely is a, is an
interesting way of thinking about it.
I, I, I still value the, the otherterms to, because I think they're
(17:05):
a little more straightforwardfor, for people to, to grasp.
But, but yeah, mediumof exchange over time.
Um, and, and in this paragraph, I likethe allusion to, to sacrifice and I mean.
This is a concept that civilizationallybasically, uh, the, the, the concept of
being low time preference or in otherwords, sacrificing immediate gratification
(17:26):
for, uh, for gain in the future.
That's how civilization developedand societies that started to take up
ritual sacrifice in order to literally.
Practice sacrificing, uh, uh, to gettheir, but to get their mindset right.
Basically.
That's my understanding of the,the purpose of, of sacrifice.
(17:47):
Like, um, um, taking, I don'tknow, the, the, the last bushel
of wheat or whatever it is that I.
Uh, people farm, um, and, and burning it.
Um, uh, or, or actually many types, typesof sacrifice was even that you just had
it in a, a feast like you, you sort of,you, you richly sacrifice it, but then
(18:07):
everyone eats it or, or whatever it is.
But you, you give something up inorder to, to mimic the scarcity of,
of losing something so that you havethe mindset of that you need to get
better and you need to continually.
Do the thing that, that moves societyforward as soon as civilizations, as
soon as cultures started to realize that,then there's more and more archeological
(18:29):
evidence that they grow bigger and biggerand they're able to better withstand,
uh, difficult, difficult conditions,especially winters like none of the
societies that developed in in NorthernEurope, would've been able to, to
get through anything if they couldn'tmake it through the winter, basically.
So they, they learned low time preference.
Right.
And, uh, uh, so, so yeah, it's, it'sjust tying this all together to the
(18:52):
idea of that, you can get your headaround that, maybe doing something
now to better yourself and, anddelaying gratification is going to
get you better rewards in the future.
That, that's something forevery individual to learn.
That's something for everyfamily group of people to learn.
And, and honestly, I think the worldis gonna be much better off if we
can, if we can collectively, uh.
(19:14):
More people, more individuals canpick up on these ideas and, and, uh,
uh, help their local environmentsand groups to, to, uh, practice it.
Yeah.
And in Bitcoin we sacrifice goats.
You know, whenever a goat, agreatest of all time thinker, uh,
starts shit coining, for instance.
(19:34):
We have to slay ourheroes and sacrifice them.
Yeah, that's not foreshadowinganything about you.
Is it Knu?
I certainly hope not.
Uh, yeah.
And, uh.
The, the proper sacrifice here.
Like the point here is that, uh,delayed gratification sacrificing
your time now for, for, uh, uh,future gratification, that that is the
(19:59):
proper way of looking at sacrifice.
Uh, uh, that is the thing thatactually yields result when you,
when you sacrifice something.
Yeah.
Great.
Great point here.
Okay.
Uh, onto the next one.
Uh, and, uh, and I, I, I think, I thinkI'll just say here, 'cause this is gonna
be a, it's not like a, uh, sometimesparagraphs are going to be relating
(20:23):
to the one previously in a way thatsort of is, we'll, we'll just remember
that this came after the last one.
Yep.
So
it's rooted in physics.
For every action there isan equally large reaction.
Trade is at the very core of whatwe are and the tools we use to
conduct trade matter a lot tothe outcome of each transaction.
(20:48):
is our primary tool for expressingvalue to each other, and if the
creation of money is somewhat corruptor unethical, that wrought spreads down
throughout society from top to bottom.
Shit flows downhill asthe expression goes.
Can.
Uh, yeah.
Uh, if I was to write this book again,now I wouldn't use the word, uh, I
(21:09):
wouldn't have used the word physics,just, and the, the reason I would would
avoid it is not because I don't agreewith that, that every action has an
equally big, uh, reaction, but thatI think it's important to distinguish
between human action and all other.
All other branches of science.
Uh, physics is an empiricalscience, uh, ology is not.
(21:33):
which is also, by the way, whyBitcoin is not digital energy.
Uh, I, I, I don't like that phrasing.
I think it's, uh, waymore complex than that.
Uh, but we we're going to get into,uh, some other, examples like this,
uh, where I use like physics metaphorsthat I, I will try to explain as
(21:53):
best as I can, why they're flawed.
They might be good to just easesomeone into this new way of thinking,
but, uh, uh, at the end of the day,all, all physics metaphors, uh,
for Bitcoin are basically wrong.
Fair enough, but I mean, I mean, yeah.
Good to kind of point it out.
And, and again, like wrongnessis subjective, also sort of, uh,
(22:20):
the metaphors themselves, if theyhelp people understand things
better, they're not wrong in thesense of being empirically wrong.
In those cases, they, they helppeople the understand the concept,
and I don't think that's wrong.
Now there they might be, uh.
Like objectively wrong, butsub subjectively, right?
(22:40):
Uh, if, if that makes anysense, if they're, uh,
helpful.
subjectively helpful as a toolof understanding other stuff.
something on your, jo on your journey.
But this is, I, I think this paragraph,like it kind of explains itself.
It's not very complicated.
If money printing goes on, uh,everything else gets corrupt.
(23:01):
Um, and this is where I'd liketo recommend, uh, a guy that I
recently interviewed, uh, JoeRogers, uh, his, uh, movie.
What is the problem?
There's little animated movie.
Uh, if you, if you Google.
Uh, what is the problem?
You, you'll, uh, get a verygood basic e explanation of what
(23:21):
happens when, when, uh, the statesstart running the money printer.
Yeah.
Good.
And actually this is a good time to pointout that, that we're, we're actually
with the Bitcoin Infinity Academy.
We're we're being quite a bitmore, uh, uh, on time with,
with this, like this episode.
We're recording itright now on a Saturday.
This is gonna be out on Monday.
I. Uh, but our Bitcoin Infinity show,we, we have a big backlog and we, we
(23:46):
take a lot of time, um, to, to releasethe, the episodes and, and get them out
just for the, uh, I don't know the, thedifficulties of, of life and all this.
So, uh, we might reference thingsthat haven't actually come out yet,
but we're, we're gonna stay on timeand fairly topical with, with these,
uh, academy episodes, which is, whichis gonna be gonna be pretty fun.
(24:07):
But.
Uh, yeah, I agree.
And I mean, uh, uh, another thingtoo is that, is that we're going
to be, um, touching on topicsthat are better explored later.
And I think we know that sometimes, uh,that, that we go deeper into something.
So I think, uh, bear with us, if,if you want to hear a little bit
more about something specific thatwe're, we're talking about here,
(24:28):
maybe our answer is going to bea little bit of like, Hey, like.
Tune in to, to a, a, a later chapter here.
But we we're also happy to, to,I think, flesh some things out
independent of, uh, of being tiedto a book, uh, a chapter, right?
Yeah, or, or just join theacademy and pose a question in
the group and we will bring it up.
Uh, yeah, that, that's,that's what I was getting at.
(24:49):
Like, uh, uh, we're, we're happy to,to discuss things a little more kind
of outta band, but I, but I thinkwe'll go, we will hit them also in
depth, uh, as, as the ideas come up.
So, um, yeah.
Uh, the, the, uh, these earlierbooks are thought of idea embryos
for what was to come later, uh,and, and culminating in clown world.
We'll, we'll get to that.
(25:11):
Yeah.
When, when we get to, when we get toclown world, uh, we're going deep.
It's gonna
Yeah, this, this, uh, academy isall about delayed gratification.
There we go.
Good.
Good.
Okay.
Onto the next one.
So what is money, or rather, what oughtmoney to be in order for two persons to
(25:33):
interact when a mutual coincidence ofneeds is absent, a medium of exchange is
needed in order to execute a transaction?
A mutual coincidence of needsmight be, you need my three
goats and I need your cow.
Or even both of us need a hug.
In the absence of a physical goodor service suitable for a specific
transaction, money can fulfillthe role of a medium of exchange.
(25:56):
What most people fail to realize is thatthe value of money, just as the value of
everything else, is entirely subjective.
You don't have to spend it.
the problem with every incarnation ofmoney that mankind has ever tried is
that its value always gets diluted overtime due to inflation in various forms.
Inflation makes traditional money,a bad store of value and money needs
(26:18):
to be a good store of value, inorder to be a good investment, or in
other words, a good substitute foryour time and your effort over time.
Bitcoin tries to solve this problemby introducing absolute scarcity to
the world, a concept that mankindhas never encountered before.
To comprehend what such a discoverymeans for the future, one needs to
understand the fundamentals of whatvalue is and that we assign a certain
(26:41):
value to everything we encounter inlife, whether we admit it or not.
In short, we assign valueto everything we do.
Value is derived from supply anddemand and supply is objective
while demand is subjective.
Great summary.
Thank you.
Um, I mean, this is at thecore of what Bitcoin is, right?
(27:03):
You have a potential infinite, uh,demand and an absolutely finite supply.
And if you combine, those twonumber can only go up forever.
That's, that is the conclusion here.
So while that seems utopian.
You're living through it rightnow, whether you want to or not,
you can either be on this train ornot, and nothing stops this train.
(27:25):
So, uh, the, the here, uh, uh, a crucialpoint here is that no civilization ever
happens before money is discovered.
Uh, so there, there is no bartercivilization, civilizations don't.
Emerge from just border.
You need something, youneed a medium of exchange.
(27:47):
Uh, and, uh, my, my favorite de definitionof, uh, money is Hans harm Hopper's
definition, which is that it's, it'sthe best insurance against uncertainty,
uh, uh, available or the best defenseagainst uncertainty available because
that's all money is supposed to do.
It's supposed to give you easeof mind so that you can go into
(28:08):
the future knowing that you can.
Use the fruits of your labor later,and exchange it for something else
that you need more than the other guy.
Like, it's, it's very simple like that.
Uh, it's just that we have, uh,all of human history tainted by bad
money and by, uh, corrupted money,unethical money, whatever you may
(28:29):
call it, uh, inflationary money.
so in, in that sense, Bitcoinrewrites all of history.
Like, uh, we've never hada perfect representation of
history before, but now we do.
Yeah.
Damn.
I mean like, uh, the whole thing here.
When, when you say that, uh,I, I was going to that, yeah.
(28:49):
There are times in history when themoney is a little bit better, and of
course we never had the technologicalstack for Bitcoin to exist before.
We needed some kind of, some kind of.
Mechanism of the technology.
I mean, we're not gonna get into a historylesson of what had to come before Bitcoin,
but, but basically the, the proof ofwork mechanism and, and coordinating
(29:12):
different, uh, um, nodes in a network.
Like you couldn't have had Bitcoin if youcan't communicate with people, basically.
That I, I would say.
From my point of view, that istrue and untrue at the same time.
And the reason is, if everyonewas absolutely 100% honest all the
time, we could have had Bitcoin.
(29:34):
So the only reason we need all thetechnology and all the proof of work
and all, all of these things is toprevent people from being dishonest.
But if people just had beenhonest to begin with, we
wouldn't have needed Bitcoin.
Uh, that's the way I view that.
Oh, that's a, that's a clip right there.
I think maybe, let's see here.
(29:56):
Let's, um, let's, let's continue.
I think
free trade emerges out of humaninteraction naturally, and it is
not an idea that was forced uponus at any specific point in time.
The idea that markets should be regulatedand governed on the other hand was
breach rate, is just the absence offorceful interference in an interaction
(30:17):
between two humans by a third party.
There's nothing intrinsicallywrong or immoral about an
exchange of a good or service.
every objection to this is a byproductof the current global narrative, a
narrative that tells us that the world isdivided into different nations, and that
people in these nations operate undervarious sets of laws depending on what
jurisdiction they find themselves in.
(30:38):
All of these ideas are manmade, no speciesexcept humans does this to themselves.
Animals do trade, butthey don't do politics.
what did you mean by this paragraph?
Cano?
Yes, it's, it's to, uh, emphasize thepoint that, capitalism is not optional.
Like it's, it's not, it'snot a manmade concept.
(31:00):
It's, it's something that emergesnaturally from human behavior, uh, and
even animal behavior to some extent.
The, the, the term capital good refers tosomething that you can use at a later time
or use in the production of other goods,ultimately leading to a consumer good,
to the production of a consumer good.
(31:21):
And accumulating these thingsand trading them with one another
is what leads to civilization.
That is the process of civilization.
So saying that, uh, capitalism isevil, is, is a very, very strange,
is very, very strange to me.
And I think the reason the word has,been so skewed over the years is, uh,
(31:42):
is like the world, the word liberalism.
It ought to, it ought to mean likepeople are free to do whatever the
fuck they want, but it doesn't in themodern context of the world of the word.
So the same is true forcapitalism, I think.
I think the reason theword is so tainted is, uh.
It's because of money printing at theend of the day that, that some, some
(32:05):
asshole has been able to print moneyand then blame the failures of the free
market, so-called failures of the freemarket, which are really failures of
the boom and bust, boom, bust, boomcycle that follows from money printing
and political interventionism, likethis is always the root of the problem.
It's always marketed as the remedy or,or the antidote to the, the, or the,
(32:30):
the solution to the problem, uh, whenit's actually the underlying cause.
and I think most people get thiswrong because we're constantly
being bombarded by, uh, state fundedinformation channels that give us this
worldview, public schooling for is one.
And, uh, uh.
(32:50):
Government subsidizes media outlets.
It's another and everyone workingthere, they, they're doing their best.
And I think they try their best togive accurate information to people,
but they're also brainwashed by thenotion, of by, by politics and by the
money being, corrupt to begin with.
(33:10):
Uh, skews everything.
Yeah, and I mean, I, I think a, anuance here also that, that I think you
were getting at is, is that, is that.
we call capitalism, especiallythe most capitalistic places.
Uh, it's, it's all the, all theproblems really just come from the,
the, the government intervention.
And, and this is a, this is one of thosethings getting into the political realm
(33:34):
of, of this, the, the reason I think whypeople who get into Austrian economics
eventually start to lean, libertarian, or.
Right.
Or something an Arco capitalisteven is just that it becomes
clear that that interventionsin the market are the problem.
(33:56):
Uh, and, and it's really what makesthe, the capitalism I. Not work.
The free trade betweenindividuals not work.
The people who are closest to themoney printer are deciding to give
money to different people, companies,groups, picking winners essentially,
and they're also choosing to tax.
(34:18):
One group or another differently.
So it's picking winners and losersand, and we don't have any idea of
what it would really look like in,in a, in a real capitalist system.
I mean, I, I saw a breakdown of, I. allthe ways that, uh, that the US healthcare
system is, is interfered with all the waydown from, uh, in insurance being mandated
(34:43):
so that, so that, uh, hospitals can billbasically whatever they want because
insurance companies have to pay for it.
And then therefore insurancecompanies raise their premiums.
A whole ton, thereby making it moreexpensive for people to afford insurance.
And it just, all, it tricklesdown, uh, monopolies on patents,
uh, um, enforced regulations thatmean that smaller companies cannot
(35:07):
compete in the medical space.
Just, just a crazy number of interventionsthat, that distort everything.
And so the so-called.
Big capitalist healthcare system isn'ta capitalist at all, and theoretically
the cure is going to be more socialism.
That's really not going to work.
(35:27):
I think I.
No, and this is, there are so many layersto this, so it's sort of impossible to to
imagine a world without interventionism,except if you're a Bitcoin and do a lot
of hanging out with other Bitcoiners.
I mean, what we're doing right now,Luke, like you and I, are trading our
time and effort with one another andit's a mutually beneficial thing, and.
(35:49):
So, so is the audience here,everyone watching this does
so by their own volition.
They, they are, they are herebecause they want to be here.
And who, why couldn't theentire world work like that?
Why couldn't everything beconsensual and voluntary?
And thinking that some things haveto be enforced is a product of
(36:13):
that very same kind of enforcement.
We only think that becausewe have been forced to.
Live in systems where, where you drawthose conclusions, uh, from necessity
because there are assholes with gunsthreatening you to, to, to take you
away and put you in a cell if you don'tdo what they, they think is wrong or
(36:35):
right, because at the end of the day.
Who is to say what is aproblem with the market?
Like that is entirely subjective too.
Like, who gets to set the framing?
Like this is a, this company is too big.
I mean, says who, even, what, what, whatpeople view as the most capitalistic
institutions of the world, like,uh, multinational corporations.
(36:57):
They are the size, they aremostly because of interventionism,
quenching all the competition.
So, and, and, and the, theinterventionism helps these large
entities, it helps them, uh, formartificial monopolies in, in all of.
All areas of life, by, by justdisallowing every potential
(37:20):
competitor to challenge 'em.
That that's the main mechanismthat keeps, uh, that, that, that,
that makes monopolies happen atall on a completely free market.
Uh, theoretically a monopolysituation cannot happen.
uh, which is counterintuitive to mostpeople, and we'll get into the weeds of
this in, in later books, but, uh, thisis not a discussion for now, I guess.
(37:43):
No, I, I'm, uh, uh, my only remarkhere is that I'm, I'm enjoying
how spicy we're already getting.
It's not so spicy, but like,it's, it's getting a little bit
spicy at this point already.
So yeah, we're, uh, we're having fun.
This, this series is gonna bean absolute, absolute blast.
I'm already, I'm alreadyreally enjoying it.
Yeah.
Let's, uh, let's continue.
(38:03):
Bitcoin and the idea of truly soundabsolutely scarce money inevitably
makes you question human societalstructures in general and the
nature of money in particular.
Once you realize that thisPandora's box of an idea can't
be closed again by anyone,everything is put into perspective.
Once you realize that it is now possiblefor anyone with a decently sized brain to
(38:25):
store any amount of wealth in that brain,or to beam wealth anonymously to any other
brain in the world without anyone elseever knowing everything you are ever told
about human society is turned on its head.
Everything you thought youknew about taxes, social class,
capitalism, socialism, economics,or even democracy falls apart like
(38:47):
a house of cards in a hurricane.
It is in fact impossible to comprehendthe impact Bitcoin will have on the
planet without also understandingbasic Austrian economics and what
the Libertarian worldview stems from.
Okay.
This, uh, reminds me that Pandora'sbox sentence there reminds me
(39:09):
of something Michael Dunworth.
Uh, my friend Michael Dunworth saidon a panel we were on at Bitcoin
alive in Sydney, uh, just a couple ofweeks back, and that is that Bitcoin
is the first thing that humanity hasever built, that we can't, uh, break.
We, we cannot undo this.
Like we have built somethingthat we cannot stop.
(39:31):
And not wanting to, to own abit of that, or to be part of
that, uh, is just insanity.
Like, uh, I, I mean, time will tell,but everything points to Bitcoin
being completely unbreakable,which is, uh, which is just mind
blowing in itself, isn't it?
(39:52):
It, it completely is.
And I mean, this is another one ofthese things where I just get back
to, uh, when you get it, you get it.
When you take the orangepill, you can't untake it.
You know?
It, it, it, it's, it's, it's likeyou've seen behind the curtain and
just nothing, nothing else, uh, evermakes sense anymore except in, except
(40:13):
in the contents of context of Bitcoin.
And so, yeah.
Yeah, like, uh, comingto these realizations is
important and, and, you know.
Uh, I, I say it, I say it a lot becauseI think it's, it's important to say this,
like the reason we talk about this stuffas much as we do and we go deep into it.
I mean, there, there's, there's somany layers to this, this, this,
(40:34):
we're doing this for our own benefit.
We're doing this for thebenefit of everyone listening.
Right?
And, and I mean, the, I think my,my assumption is anyone who's.
Listening to this at, at this point is,is going to be already pretty, pretty
deep into the Bitcoin rabbit hole already.
But wouldn't it be awesome if, ifthis is like one of these things
that you know, hey, you, you, you'vejust got your first Bitcoin here.
(40:56):
Check out, check out this series on,on sovereignty through mathematics, uh,
and, and really dig deep into this stuff.
I mean, what's the impact that,that us doing this could have
in, in the future here, but.
Not, not specifically this, thisseries, but just all the talk about
Bitcoin and getting better at theideas and understanding them better.
(41:18):
yeah, like conviction deepening isimportant and, and being able to
explain these things to other peopleis important because even though it
can't break it, we don't know howlong it's gonna take before, before
the world is overtaken by Bitcoin
Before, before it breaks everything else.
or it breaks everything else.
Yeah.
So, no, I mean, I mean, I, I just keepgetting more, more, I. Not bullish.
(41:40):
Exactly.
It's the wrong word.
It's just, when we talk about this stuff,it gets me excited about where we, where
we're going to be, uh, in the future here.
when, when more and more people thinkabout these ideas and, and start to
change the way they live their lives.
Because may, maybe that's,maybe that's another thing here.
I definitely live life in adifferent way after discovering
(42:03):
Bitcoin and after seeing that, that.
Everything, all the ways of operatingbefore were just, were just a hamster's
wheel to get ahead in the rat race orwhatever other metaphor makes sense.
But you figure out Bitcoin and somany other things start to make
more sense and, and you just liveyour life a totally different way.
And I don't know, I'm, I'm justhopeful that, uh, through discussing
(42:26):
these ideas, more people cancome to the same realization.
I don't have much moreof a point than that.
It's just, it's just alwaysawesome to think about.
I, I, I view it as like the, the lifeI led before and, and like, like life.
How you view life ingeneral before Bitcoin.
Is that success always the, the, thisfalse notion that success necessarily
(42:46):
has to come at someone else's expense,which Bitcoin sort of points out
that that is completely 100% false.
Uh, eh.
One person's success can benefit everyoneelse on Earth simultaneously, if we just
start using the, the proper denominator,like it's, it's as simple as that.
(43:07):
That was a complicated, uh, uh,and, uh, outlandish statement.
We, we'll get into the weeds ofwhy in the upcoming chapters.
Exactly.
Let's, let's, yes, we'll get,we'll get into it more later.
Uh, last, uh, last paragraph here.
And, uh, interesting anecdote I thinkcoming up or interesting thought nugget.
(43:30):
I. Imagine growing up in an Amishcommunity until your 16th birthday,
you're purposely completelyshielded off from the outside world.
Information about how the worldreally works is very limited to you.
Since internet access and even TVs andradios are forbidden within the community.
Well, from a certainperspective, we're all Amish.
(43:51):
How money really works is neveremphasized enough through traditional
media or public educational institutions.
Most people believe that the monetarysystem is somehow sound and fair
when there's overwhelming evidenceto the contrary all over the globe.
yourself, do you remember being taughtabout the origins of money in school?
(44:11):
I, me neither.
I don't believe that there's somegreat global conspiracy behind the
fact that the ethics of money creationisn't a school subject, but rather that
plain old ignorance is to blame forthe lack of such a subject primarily.
As soon as their math skilllimit is reached, people seem
to stop caring about numbers.
The difference between a million anda billion seems lost on a depressingly
(44:34):
large part of the world's population.
In the chapters ahead, we'll explorethe pitfalls of central banking, how
money pops into existence, and howinflation keeps us all on a leash.
Okay.
Yeah, the difference between a millionand a billion is about a billion.
(44:54):
Uh, the, the Amish parthere is, is funny, uh, like.
Do you know why the Amish, uh,weren't affected by Covid at all?
Yeah, go ahead.
they didn't have a tv.
They didn't have TVs, so that's whylike the, so there's, if anything,
I've changed my views on theAmish, uh, since I wrote this book.
(45:17):
I think they're pretty based,uh, I, I mean they, they, they're
not worried about climate changebecause they don't have TVs.
Like, uh, they, they, they live life.
Uh, and you, you may say that it's,uh, ignorant and, and like, uh,
shielded from the rest of the worldand they, they're not getting all
the information, but they're alsonot getting any of the propaganda.
(45:39):
So, so, uh, uh, so it'sa double-sided coin.
Uh, I personally believe youshould like, uh, have access to
as much information as possible.
It's just that take care of your filters,uh, filter the information properly.
That can be hard to do.
One, one trick.
One simple trick is to alwaysfollow the money, to see what
(46:00):
people's real intentions are.
Watch their actions rather thanlistening to their words, especially
politicians and bureaucrats.
Uh, and uh, yeah, the Amish aregood at that, so good on them.
I.
Absolutely.
And well, you know, I think, Ithink the other point you have
here is that like the, none of thisbeing covered in school, I mean,
there's something real really there.
(46:23):
Like, uh, like honestly, it's,it's hard to, to not see some grand
conspiracy here to kind of just shuteveryone up and, and keep us all in
our little boxes because, because.
This stuff really should be fundamental.
The fundamentals of how to livelife are what should be taught
in school, not, not esotericthings that might be useful later.
(46:44):
I think much of mathematics in, in, inschool beyond real basics actually is
pretty darn useless to most people, liketrigonometry and things like that, but
they completely gloss over the, the, uh.
of money and how to, how to use moneyand, and all of these useful things.
(47:05):
Right?
It's, it's, it's so hard.
I don't know.
What do you think?
any, any inflation is theft.
I mean, read Rothberg, people like it.
It's always theft.
A violation has happened if prices go up.
Uh, and this is so hard forpeople to understand because
prices have always gone up.
Everyone living today, no oneliving today has ever experienced
(47:26):
falling prices in anything butsay like computers, uh, which are.
Have such a technological, fasttechnological deflation that,
uh, the, the prices actuallygo down even in fiat terms, but
everything else should go down too.
It's as simple as that.
And if you're denominatingBitcoin, it does so.
(47:50):
Yeah.
And this is what this is all about.
This is what this course isabout, to teach people, teach
people this, these things.
And, uh, another way of viewing the world,uh, I mean also with a conspiracy thing.
I would, uh, say never attribute to malicewhat can be explained by retardation.
(48:10):
Like I, I think, I thinkthat, uh, oftentimes it's
just that the whole system is.
Uh, incentives are set the way they are.
And like even the, even money printinglike is not someone, uh, conspiring to,
to, uh, uh, manipulate everyone else.
(48:32):
It's just that the temptation,the incentive to print money
if you can, is too strong.
So humans have never been able to resistthe temptation to take a little more
for yourself than, uh, than you areactually entitled to, which is why we
can't leave anyone in charge of themoney print because the psychopaths will.
(48:53):
Like flock to those positions in societywhere they, where they get to use others.
So, so a psychopath is bound toend up in controlling the money
printer at the end of the day.
And, and this is why it's, I. Theincentives were there before the
malice, if you know what I mean.
Before, before the bad guycame there, the incentive to,
to become a bad guy was there.
(49:15):
So, uh, it can be explained bythat, uh, what Bitcoin does, it is
it provides us with a system whereactually following the rules is more
profitable than trying to break them.
Uh, which, which completelychanges the incentive.
So, so.
If, if, if there's anything,any such thing as a positive
(49:37):
conspiracy, this would be it.
Like we're, we're, we're actually schemingto make people behave in different ways.
It's, uh, yeah.
No, it's great.
I mean, the, the finding is,is that good intentions, people
can have good intentions, right?
Like, uh, it, it can be completelyreasonable to think that it's, it
(49:58):
would be nice to order the worldin such a way that everyone gets
everything taken care of and.
Society runs all smoothly and, and, andall this, but the, the sinister nature
is that, is that people who can takeadvantage of such, such systems will,
and I think we'll explore those ideas.
More in the future.
(50:19):
But for now, I think I, I think thiswas a, an excellent chapter and,
uh, uh, to our, to our listeners.
Hey, we're, we're, we'redone the chapter now.
Um, go, leave us a comment.
Tell us what you think.
If you're watching on YouTube or Rumble,go, go, leave us a comment there.
Uh, if you've, if you've been listeningon Fountain or something, uh, uh, send
(50:39):
us a tweet or a post on nos about it.
Uh, let us know what you thinkand, uh, looking forward to
continuing the conversation.
But.
Yes, and, and aboutcontinuing the conversation.
The road to hell is paved.
With good intentions as we knowwhich, what, what is why I think
there's a, a highway to helland a just a stairway to heaven.
(51:00):
Uh, and speaking of, we'll get into oneof my most controversial chapters ever,
I think next week or, or not next week.
This is coming out like just acouple of days after this, which is
chapter two of Sovereignty throughmathematics called Financial Atheism.
And, uh, I'll explain how my viewshave changed on that since I wrote
(51:21):
it and what I still agree withand what I might disagree with.
So looking forward to that and to definingthe word, the words and all all the stuff.
So, yeah.
Welcome back next time.
Welcome back next time.
Perfect.
Uh, I, I think I'll, I'll, I was gonnaask you, did you have any last words,
but I think you just, just covered that.
Am I right?
(51:41):
Yeah.
These were my last words.
These were, these were.
All right.
Well, hey, so before, before we wrapup, I think we'll just, we'll just say,
uh, a big shout out to, first of all,everyone who's joined the academy so far.
If you wanna be involved in the, thediscussions and support what we're doing.
The easiest way, easiest way,is to, to join the academy.
(52:02):
Either join the specific courseor, or pick up the Metral Atium
membership so that you haveaccess to absolutely everything.
All the details are on our Geyser page.
Er Fund slash Project slash infinityand all the details are there.
Uh, also thank you to Plan B Networkfor, for supporting this, this endeavor.
(52:22):
It's how we can make it available forfree to everyone, both on noster and in
the the video audio segment we have here.
So check out plan B network.
For more fantastic educationalresources, and we're really happy
to be, be a part of this initiative.
Uh, a short, uh, a condensed version ora bridged version of, of these recordings
is also gonna be available on the,the Plan B network, YouTube channel.
(52:46):
Rumble channel.
and Rumble, it's, it's both.
it's both.
Yeah.
Yeah.
yeah.
Okay.
So that's Plan B Network.
Thanks again to them.
And, and the other oneof course is Bit Box.
They've been a, they've been a long timesupporter of both of our shows also now,
so, so big, A big shout out to them.
Go to Bit box.swiss/infinitifor a discount on the Bit
(53:08):
Box zero two Hardware wallet.
Our, our favorite hardwarewallet at Fantastic for newbies.
Super easy to use.
So yeah, it's, um, thanks.
Bit box.
Anything else on, on,uh, those topics there?
K.
Yes.
A final thing for this specificchapter that we just went through,
the sovereignty through mathematics,there's a little animation made by Yoni
Appleberg, uh, narrated by guy, guy one.
(53:31):
So if you search for Bitcoin, every,uh, everything, a trade on, uh,
YouTube, you'll find that video.
Uh, yeah, I highly recommend that.
And all of Yoni's, othervideos for that matter.
Uh, so.
Check out that, and, uh, as Lukesaid, leave a comment, like,
subscribe and brush your teeth.
See you next time.
(53:52):
Yeah, but we're nottotally done yet, are we?
No.
Well, we could be, Iguess, but, but, uh, no.
Uh, uh, just a reminder, everywhereyou can, uh, everywhere you can
see us this upcoming year, we'regonna be at a whole bunch of.
Your conferences, uh, I thinkyou've got a slightly more full
schedule, Cano, so you wanna tell us
Oh yes.
Uh, thanks for that reminder.
(54:15):
So, uh, now in May I'm going toIreland to a Bitcoin conference
there, Bitcoin, Ireland.
And then we're both goingto Prague, uh, for B2C.
Prague, uh, use.
This goes for every singleconference and everything else.
You can buy Bitcoinrelated on the internet.
Really use code infinity for adiscount, especially for Prague now.
(54:36):
Uh, and uh, then we're going to, uh.
Uh, Bitcoin Rodeo in, in Calgary, Canada.
And after that, uh, we're,I'm going to Budapest and you
are going to Riga after that.
We're organizing a conference inHelsinki, Finland, in the, at the end
of August, uh, or the middle of August.
(54:57):
So, uh, yeah, Baltic, KBA and Istanbul.
Uh, no, not Istanbul, Budapest.
Uh, I travel too much.
Uh, our, uh, on the eighth and 9th ofAugust and the B2C, hell in Helsinki
is on the 15th and 16th, I believe.
I think I got that right.
You did get it right.
Yeah, exactly.
No, no.
Uh, really great, really greatconference schedule coming up.
(55:19):
Uh, come say hello.
Uh, get a book signed if you want.
Uh, yeah, we'll, we'll be there.
Looking forward to it.
And uh,
And Bulgaria and Logano.
Don't forget, Logano, like thePlan B conference in Logano
is coming up in October.
If we're going throughthe entire schedule here,
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think the, we're, we're confirmingthe Bulgaria and, and, and ano
(55:42):
here, but I'm, I'm sure that, I'msure we'll, we'll wrap those up.
Looking forward to, to all of it.
So, uh, but come to, come toHelsinki though, if you can.
Seriously, we're, we'rereally excited about this one.
We're gonna, we're gonna havelots of fantastic side events.
There's a ton of greatspeakers lined up already.
So this is, this is anotherone of these ways that, uh, you
can get the, the most out of.
Uh, you know, your relationshipwith us and, and all this
(56:05):
come to come to Helsinki.
Um, yeah, we, we'd reallylove to see you there.
It's, it's my adopted hometown and I'mreally excited to, to show it off to
International Bitcoiners and we're reallytrying to raise awareness and adoption.
In Finland and the, theNordics more generally.
So that's, uh, another way you can havea big impact is to, to come to Helsinki
(56:28):
and, and, and show, show, uh, everyonehere, um, what Bitcoin is all about.
So that's the, the short pitch.
You'll be hearing it constantlyuntil the conference, but
we're really excited about it.
Right.
Knu.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
The really short pitchwould be go to hell people.
I don't have anything more to add.
(56:49):
So is is this it?
Are we, uh, gonna put aribbon on this one now?
I think we're gonna put aribbon on this one right now.
Alright.
Thank you Luke.
See you next time.
Thanks Knut, and thank you for listening.
See you next time.
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