Dave Kalama Foil interview- Blue Planet Show #36- lifetime of innovation

Robert Stehlik introduces Dave Kalama as a pioneer in various water sports, including windsurfing, surfing, towing, and foiling. Dave’s innovations have significantly influenced these sports, making them more accessible to the masses. He is currently at the forefront of designing advanced foiling boards widely used by athletes worldwide.

 

The Essence of Design and Innovation

 

Dave shares his perspective on designing foiling boards. For him, the goal has always been to create the best boards possible, focusing on the challenge of innovation rather than mass adoption. He reflects on the joy of seeing people use his designs but emphasizes that his primary motivation has been to refine and improve the boards in the shaping room.

 

Evolution of Stand-Up Foiling

 

Dave discusses the rapid growth of stand-up foiling, particularly in downwind racing, and his role in designing the long, narrow boards that have become standard. He recounts the initial challenges and iterative process of developing these boards, initially aimed at prone foilers but eventually proving successful for stand-up paddling. This evolution has made the sport more accessible and enjoyable for a broader audience.

 

Challenges and Learning Curves

 

The development of these boards wasn’t straightforward. Dave describes the numerous iterations and frustrations along the way. It took years to perfect the design, with moments of doubt and pauses in the project. However, the persistence paid off as he eventually found the right combination of length and width to make the boards efficient and stable.

 

Importance of Paddle Technique

 

Dave highlights the importance of paddle technique in stand-up foiling. He explains that as boards became narrower, the paddle became the primary source of stability. This shift in mindset allowed paddlers to handle narrower boards effectively. He advises those new to the sport to focus on learning proper paddle techniques, possibly by taking classes like those offered by Jeremy Riggs.

 

The Future of Foiling and Equipment Evolution

 

Dave reflects on how the foiling sport has evolved, particularly with the introduction of high-aspect wings that prioritize speed over ease of use. He notes that while these wings have made the sport more competitive, they have also reduced the number of prone foilers due to the physical demands required to use them effectively.

 

Personal Connection to Traditional Stand-Up Paddling

 

Despite his focus on foiling, Dave still enjoys traditional stand-up paddling and longboarding. He talks about the simplicity and fun of these activities, which provide a contrast to the intensity of foiling. He also reminisces about the early days of stand-up paddling, appreciating how much easier and more fun foiling has made these activities.

 

Competition and the Changing Landscape

 

Dave acknowledges the competitive nature of foiling races today, noting how the level of competition has increased dramatically. While he still enjoys racing, his work commitments have made it difficult to train adequately. He discusses the challenges of competing against younger, fitter athletes who are using increasingly advanced equipment.

 

Balancing Work and Passion

 

Dave’s current focus is on his work, which often requires travel and limits his ability to compete. He mentions how he still finds ways to support others in the sport, sharing his knowledge and experience. While he would like to race again, he recognizes the importance of balancing work and personal passions.

 

Legacy and Family Influence

 

Dave shares his family background, explaining how his Hawaiian heritage and his father’s surfing accomplishments influenced his path. Growing up in Southern California, he developed a love

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Aloha friends, it's Robert Stehlik.
Welcome to another episode of the Blue Planet Show, where I interview foiling thought leaders, designers, and athletes. 3 00:00:09,929.999 --> 00:00:18,279.999 You can watch the Blue Planet Show right here on YouTube, or listen to it as a podcast, just search in your favorite podcast app for the Blue Planet Show. 4 00:00:19,159.999 --> 00:00:29,879.999 Today's show is with Dave Kalama, who's been an innovator, not just in foiling, but before that in windsurfing, towing, surfing, towing foiling.

(00:30):
stand up paddle boarding.
He's brought all those things to the masses, made us aware of all these cool new ways to enjoy the ocean. 7 00:00:38,669.999 --> 00:00:47,939.999 Now he's creating leading edge designs for foiling widely used and copied by many other designers and brands.
So he's always been a thought leader and design leader.

(00:52):
And it's my pleasure to get him on the blue planet show and have a great conversation with him.
Thanks so much, Dave, for making the time.
And without further ado, here is Dave Kalama.
Hey, Robert.
How you doing? I'm good.
I'm doing great.
.0005It's early in the morning here in Hawaii you've been busy, I'm sure. 16 00:01:11,105.0005 --> 00:01:15,64.9995 And we just had the Molokai to Oahu Boiling Race. 17 00:01:15,484.9995 --> 00:01:17,604.9995 And there's a lot of people using your boards. 18 00:01:18,355.0005 --> 00:01:21,995.0005 How does that make you feel? It feels great. 19 00:01:22,115.0005 --> 00:01:31,785.0005 It's weird for me, the goal never was or never has been to see how many people I can get writing the boards. 20 00:01:31,785.0005 --> 00:01:37,54.9995 It's always been how good can I make the boards like the challenge of it. 21 00:01:37,755.0015 --> 00:01:44,45.0005 And I've always focused on that and yes, selling them is necessary. 22 00:01:44,725.0005 --> 00:01:46,65.0005 I want to keep doing that. 23 00:01:47,915.0005 --> 00:01:49,245.0005 The vision for me. 24 00:01:50,240.0005 --> 00:01:55,560.0005 Never entailed looking out and seeing a bunch of boards. 25 00:01:55,560.0005 --> 00:02:02,480.0005 It was just always more in the shaping room and envisioning design characteristics and concepts. 26 00:02:02,480.0005 --> 00:02:05,949.9995 And, always trying to make the wheel just a little bit rounder. 27 00:02:06,799.9995 --> 00:02:15,29.9985 It's crazy how much stand up foiling has people have been blown up, like just in the last few years, like from being a super elite sport. 28 00:02:15,59.9985 --> 00:02:34,779.9965 Now there's in the end Maui to Molokai race, there was like, I think 120 people on stand up foil boards doing it and and almost everybody was able to cross, when just a few years ago, it was just like a handful of people could do it and I think a big part of that has to do with the boards you designed, that like basically everybody's using. 29 00:02:35,379.9975 --> 00:02:37,869.9975 Long, narrow foil boards now. 30 00:02:37,879.9975 --> 00:02:44,49.9975 So talk a little bit about how that came about, like how that you got into those, making those boards. 31 00:02:44,829.9975 --> 00:02:51,989.9975 Yeah, I guess the original impetus for the whole thing was several years ago. 32 00:02:52,559.9965 --> 00:03:00,699.9965 I saw that prone foiling seemed to be growing at a much higher rate than stand up foiling was. 33 00:03:01,554.9965 --> 00:03:09,144.9965 And I was already downwinding at that point, and I was already blowing my mind how amazing it was. 34 00:03:09,794.9965 --> 00:03:25,764.9965 And I just felt like all these prone foilers that think riding waves is the beginning and end, and there's nothing beyond that, have no idea how much they're missing out in the ocean. 35 00:03:26,989.9965 --> 00:03:43,129.9965 But I knew it would never happen if they had to switch over to stand up or to paddling, at least in my original concept, I didn't feel like most prone paddlers would be willing to accept using a paddle. 36 00:03:43,899.9955 --> 00:03:54,629.9965 So I felt like I've got to figure out how to make these boards so efficient that prone paddlers can access open ocean swells. 37 00:03:55,369.9965 --> 00:03:58,689.9965 And it took a while to get there, I went through. 38 00:03:59,44.9965 --> 00:04:04,4.9965 A lot of iterations where I really thought, okay, this is going to be it. 39 00:04:04,44.9965 --> 00:04:09,44.9955 I'd go out and try it and just be horribly disappointed and frustrated. 40 00:04:09,74.9965 --> 00:04:14,604.9975 And there were a couple of times where I took two or three months off and just thought it's not going to happen. 41 00:04:15,84.9965 --> 00:04:21,294.9975 And then something would come to mind and I'd go try again, and that went on for a while. 42 00:04:21,514.9975 --> 00:04:31,224.9975 You might even remember one of my first production prone downwind board was I don't know, somewhere in the neighborhood of four years ago, maybe even more. 43 00:04:31,844.9975 --> 00:04:36,434.9975 It was six Oh, or six, two, and at the time I thought, boy, that's long. 44 00:04:36,444.9975 --> 00:04:38,874.9975 Cause we were riding closer to five. 45 00:04:39,534.9975 --> 00:04:44,774.9965 So I figured a foot more and drastically narrower had to be the answer. 46 00:04:45,994.9975 --> 00:04:49,124.9975 And I was on the right path, but I hadn't gotten all the way there yet. 47 00:04:49,124.9975 --> 00:04:51,784.9975 It took, more evolution and more trial and error. 48 00:04:51,784.9975 --> 00:04:56,314.9965 But eventually I figured out that the length needed to be a part of it. 49 00:04:56,315.0965 --> 00:04:56,389.8975 Yeah. 50 00:04:57,89.9975 --> 00:05:11,789.9965 Along with design components that help the efficiency, but for sure, the length, the width are the main ingredients to making these boards really efficient. 51 00:05:12,359.9965 --> 00:05:15,229.9955 And allowing us to get up much, much easier. 52 00:05:16,209.9965 --> 00:05:19,799.9965 And there were a lot of surprises along the way to, like, how stable. 53 00:05:20,664.9965 --> 00:05:25,284.9965 And 18 inch wide all the way down to 16 is what I use now. 54 00:05:25,574.9965 --> 00:05:28,214.9965 And figuring out that. 55 00:05:29,154.9965 --> 00:05:32,794.9965 You don't look towards the board as your stability anymore. 56 00:05:32,794.9965 --> 00:05:34,194.9965 You just look at it as your flotation. 57 00:05:35,614.9955 --> 00:05:40,924.9955 And the paddle is now the main source of stability and when you just change that mindset. 58 00:05:41,544.9965 --> 00:05:46,614.9965 And develop that skill of using your paddle to stabilize yourself, it changes everything. 59 00:05:47,94.9965 --> 00:06:16,64.998 And now makes it more accessible to as we saw a few days ago, a lot of people, like you said you thought that would never pick up a paddle, but now everybody's I think, actually, the Maui Samoa carriers had a prone boiling division, but only one person entered, so every all the prone surfers are now stand up paddlers, and they have to figure out how to use the paddle and yeah, like you said, use the paddle for stability, but obviously also a lot of stability comes from the foil as well. 60 00:06:16,114.998 --> 00:06:19,94.997 You couldn't paddle on one of those boards without a foil underneath it. 61 00:06:19,144.997 --> 00:06:20,104.998 Oh, absolutely. 62 00:06:20,414.998 --> 00:06:21,494.998 Absolutely. 63 00:06:21,495.098 --> 00:06:21,824.898 Absolutely. 64 00:06:22,54.998 --> 00:06:39,584.997 But at that time, we thought, I thought 24, 25 inches was really narrow and it is for a five foot board, but when you increase that length a lot more stability came along with it than I had ever thought there would be. 65 00:06:40,24.997 --> 00:06:47,754.997 So yeah, a lot of surprises and learning curves and really a massive education. 66 00:06:47,970.098 --> 00:06:53,240.098 That's what I thought I knew versus what I actually ended up learning. 67 00:06:54,100.098 --> 00:07:10,665.098 Yeah, it sounds like you made it for prone paddling, but then you figured out that you could actually stand up on it as well, right? Yeah, and credit to Jeremy Riggs, Cause I still didn't believe you could stand up on a 18, 17, 16 inch wide board. 68 00:07:10,665.098 --> 00:07:21,685.0995 And it wasn't until I saw him do it and he made it look easy that I went maybe you can stand up on these things, yeah, it was a very fun process and learned a tremendous amount along the way. 69 00:07:22,65.0995 --> 00:07:30,185.0995 And ultimately I didn't satisfy the original goal, which was making it this prone thing. 70 00:07:30,840.0995 --> 00:07:35,350.0995 It did ultimately become accessible with a paddle to everybody. 71 00:07:35,370.0995 --> 00:07:59,800.0995 But, on the other side of the coin at that time, the foils were so much bigger and had such a good low end that if we were still using those types of foils, I think a lot more people would be proning, but now that speed and racing has become such a focal point of downwinding, you literally can't ride these super fast, tiny high aspect foils. 72 00:08:00,260.0995 --> 00:08:04,190.0995 And think you're going to prone up on them, but you certainly can with a paddle. 73 00:08:04,690.0995 --> 00:08:09,350.0995 And so it's almost as if racing or the high aspect wings have killed. 74 00:08:09,760.1005 --> 00:08:12,320.1005 The momentum that was going for a 2nd. 75 00:08:12,750.1005 --> 00:08:19,630.1005 With prone downwinding, yeah, it's amazing how small the foils are that they're using now in the race races. 76 00:08:19,630.1005 --> 00:08:20,840.1005 I guess they're just trying to go. 77 00:08:21,320.1005 --> 00:08:23,620.1005 For speed, obviously, not so much for easy. 78 00:08:24,20.1005 --> 00:08:25,270.1005 Easy pop ups, but. 79 00:08:25,830.1005 --> 00:08:30,520.1005 When you're starting out, obviously you want to use something that you can easily get up on foil with. 80 00:08:30,570.1005 --> 00:08:34,760.1005 So you can actually write, get the feel and get going. 81 00:08:35,130.1005 --> 00:08:38,360.1005 That's definitely a challenging thing in the beginning. 82 00:08:39,840.1005 --> 00:08:43,510.0995 Yes, you have any tips for people getting into it. 83 00:08:44,580.0995 --> 00:08:45,983.4665 Stand up foiling. 84 00:08:45,983.4665 --> 00:08:52,480.1005 Yeah, I would highly recommend that you attend Jeremy Riggs flat water pop up class. 85 00:08:52,820.1005 --> 00:08:53,680.1005 Because. 86 00:08:54,125.1005 --> 00:09:12,785.1005 If you can even get close to popping up on flat water, you don't have to ultimately be successful, but the skills you learn in that process of trying to attain that goal are the same skills you need to get up when you catch a little bump outside in a downwind situation. 87 00:09:12,855.1005 --> 00:09:18,385.1005 And the more develop those skills are and the more familiar you are with what needs to happen. 88 00:09:19,515.1005 --> 00:09:34,665.1005 To generate speed, acceleration, pop up, pumping, all those components that are necessary in flat water pop up are the same ingredients that you need to be successful in getting up out in the open ocean and catching a small bump. 89 00:09:34,775.1005 --> 00:09:38,365.0005 I would start there for anybody that's offering that information. 90 00:09:38,365.1005 --> 00:09:41,165.1005 Jeremy's got a bunch of videos if you want to check them out. 91 00:09:41,715.1005 --> 00:09:41,895.1005 Yeah. 92 00:09:41,945.1005 --> 00:09:45,275.0995 But it's when you pull the trigger to catch a bump. 93 00:09:46,70.1005 --> 00:09:49,720.1005 It's more work than you think it is. 94 00:09:50,100.1005 --> 00:09:55,70.1005 It's not a relaxed sort of endeavor where you mosey your way into a bump. 95 00:09:55,540.1005 --> 00:09:59,40.1005 You've got to go from zero to 100 and basically one stroke. 96 00:09:59,620.0995 --> 00:10:02,970.0995 If you're going to catch one of those bumps, because they're not very steep. 97 00:10:03,480.0985 --> 00:10:06,200.0995 They're moving relatively quickly. 98 00:10:06,850.0995 --> 00:10:09,420.0995 And so you've got to get up to speed quite abruptly. 99 00:10:10,650.0995 --> 00:10:12,980.0995 Which means you got to put out a lot of effort. 100 00:10:14,405.0995 --> 00:10:21,255.0995 And if you do, a lot of times you do catch that bump and it allows you to get up on foil and voila, you're on your way. 101 00:10:22,590.0995 --> 00:10:27,980.0995 Yeah, and then you have to start pumping and connecting and keep it keeping on foil. 102 00:10:27,980.0995 --> 00:10:53,755.1015 So yeah Beginning it was super hard because I was so exhausted from pumping up on foil that then I didn't have the energy to keep going but anyway Yeah, it's so cool to see how that Sport has been evolving so quickly and basically it seems like regular stand up paddle downwind paddling is like almost dead now or it's it's become almost irrelevant. 103 00:10:53,765.1005 --> 00:10:56,745.1005 It seems compared to stand up foiling, downwind foiling. 104 00:10:57,195.1015 --> 00:11:02,825.102 But I saw on Instagram that you recently you're still doing downwinders on a traditional stand up paddle board. 105 00:11:04,645.102 --> 00:11:05,135.102 No. 106 00:11:06,640.102 --> 00:11:07,460.102 Not much. 107 00:11:07,530.102 --> 00:11:16,970.102 I did one last year, I'm getting my son into one man paddling. 108 00:11:17,830.102 --> 00:11:27,110.102 And so as a means to be more equal speed wise and make it easier to go with him, I jumped back on the standup you're talking old school standup, right? Yeah. 109 00:11:27,110.202 --> 00:11:30,290.002 And so I jumped back on it and it'd been a while. 110 00:11:31,40.102 --> 00:11:44,820.102 It had been years, and your initial thing after coming off a foil board and that teetering back and forth and going, God, have I ever done this before? But within a few minutes, it comes back and you relax and you find your groove again. 111 00:11:45,420.102 --> 00:11:51,385.003 But yeah, I still have my old unlimited downwind stand up boards. 112 00:11:51,935.103 --> 00:12:00,915.103 And every once in a while, it's fun to jump on one just to remember how lucky we have with the foils now, how much more fun they are. 113 00:12:01,285.103 --> 00:12:01,745.103 Yeah. 114 00:12:02,135.102 --> 00:12:07,755.103 What about regular standup surfing? Do you still surf on a regular standup board? Oh, absolutely. 115 00:12:08,245.103 --> 00:12:08,695.103 Absolutely. 116 00:12:09,55.102 --> 00:12:15,625.103 I would say foiling represents probably 60 to 70 percent of my wave riding. 117 00:12:16,785.103 --> 00:12:18,735.103 But the other 30 to 40%. 118 00:12:19,870.103 --> 00:12:25,70.103 I'm either that's probably divided up equally between stand up and long boarding. 119 00:12:25,110.103 --> 00:12:27,970.103 So I still really enjoy getting on my stand up. 120 00:12:28,620.103 --> 00:12:33,320.102 And back on my long boards to when the quality of the surface is better. 121 00:12:34,0.102 --> 00:12:39,680.102 I usually have at least a stand up or a long board on the car as well and switch over into that mode. 122 00:12:40,190.102 --> 00:12:46,20.102 And go out and get a few waves and then when you stand up surfing, you use more of a long board type shape or. 123 00:12:46,360.102 --> 00:12:47,100.102 Yeah, absolutely. 124 00:12:48,120.102 --> 00:12:57,520.102 I've been riding my 11 foot longboard and 11 foot stand up a lot the last couple of years, and oh my god, just having so much fun. 125 00:12:58,130.102 --> 00:13:12,960.102 Moving from break to break and maybe covering a mile or two at different peaks and, riding all the way in and just just, I love the versatility and how you can wander around and adventure. 126 00:13:12,960.102 --> 00:13:13,40.102 Yeah. 127 00:13:13,420.102 --> 00:13:16,540.102 On the longer standups and even longer long boards too. 128 00:13:17,760.102 --> 00:13:18,370.102 Very cool. 129 00:13:19,0.102 --> 00:13:33,460.101 What about competing? Just a few years ago, you were like competing with the top I remember not too long ago, you were like doing the Maui to Moloka'i and being like head to head with Connor Baxter, who's probably was half your age at the time or less than half your age. 130 00:13:33,925.101 --> 00:13:50,615.001 And and now, are you still thinking about competing at all, or are you done with that, or what's your deal with that? I would still very much like to compete, but my schedule has me usually working pretty intensely right now. 131 00:13:50,995.101 --> 00:14:08,625.1 For the whole month prior to the races, and I've prioritized working and generating that income to support my family and myself over racing. 132 00:14:09,255.101 --> 00:14:13,915.1 I did the races last year, but basically with zero training. 133 00:14:14,495.101 --> 00:14:15,825.101 I just figured I'd send it. 134 00:14:16,45.101 --> 00:14:20,795.101 But this year it's, it was really fun last year to do it. 135 00:14:20,835.101 --> 00:14:26,115.101 And I had more success than I thought I would, but it was also at the same time, really frustrating. 136 00:14:26,115.101 --> 00:14:31,945.101 Cause I know if I prepared like I normally do, I could probably do better. 137 00:14:32,525.101 --> 00:14:35,5.1 And that's really frustrating. 138 00:14:35,35.101 --> 00:14:41,855.101 And so this year I had the same work schedule, which required traveling quite a bit right before the races. 139 00:14:41,955.101 --> 00:14:58,25.201 I just decided to take The year off and not put any pressure on myself and just focus on work for the time being and try and support some of the guys that ride my boards with information and tactics and lines and sort of stuff like that. 140 00:14:58,245.201 --> 00:15:01,25.2 But I do very much in a perfect world. 141 00:15:01,455.2 --> 00:15:08,165.2 Want to race again, but really only if I can put at least the minimum amount of preparation into it. 142 00:15:09,355.201 --> 00:15:10,615.201 Sure, that's understandable. 143 00:15:10,665.201 --> 00:15:37,285.2 Yeah, especially yeah, like you were always at the top level, so it's hard to be coming in like in the middle somewhere, right? I have a feeling that even if I did prepare how I'd want to, I might still be in the middle of the pack after seeing this racing season and how competitive the top 20, even the top 30 are, while last year, I think I was 10th or 11th or something like that in the M2M. 144 00:15:37,825.201 --> 00:15:52,385.199 I would imagine a similar showing would only net you maybe 25 to 30 now, because there's so many more guys that are so much faster it really is amazing to see how competitive it's got. 145 00:15:53,375.199 --> 00:15:53,645.199 Yeah. 146 00:15:53,645.2 --> 00:16:00,195.199 And it's, it seems to be a young man's game to or the level of fitness that you need for the, the pumping all the way through and all that kind of stuff. 147 00:16:00,835.199 --> 00:16:06,45.199 Definitely easier for the teenagers, it seems to do that, or the younger. 148 00:16:06,55.199 --> 00:16:06,965.199 Absolutely. 149 00:16:08,545.199 --> 00:16:23,155.199 Yeah, it's It's so much you can't compete with them because they're using foils that are so small and so fast that if I used one of those by halfway through the race, I'd probably already have a heart attack from trying to keep that up on foil. 150 00:16:23,725.199 --> 00:16:37,405.199 Because it requires a lot of work, like there's big payoff and there's times where you can go really fast, but when you make a mistake or a bad call and you slow down and now you've got a pump for your life to stay up, I can't do it anymore. 151 00:16:38,20.199 --> 00:16:38,320.199 Yeah. 152 00:16:38,330.199 --> 00:16:39,420.199 A hundred percent agreed. 153 00:16:39,420.199 --> 00:16:39,760.199 Yeah. 154 00:16:40,230.199 --> 00:16:46,690.199 It seems like the way that's where wing foiling is it seems to be a little bit easier for the old guys to compete with the young guys. 155 00:16:46,740.199 --> 00:16:50,200.1985 Alan Cadiz and Ken Winner both did really well. 156 00:16:50,200.1985 --> 00:17:07,800.1985 With the right equipment and the experience and the strategy and all that kind of stuff, and, you don't need as the same level of fitness, I think to be fast on a wing foiling board, that's what I like, like about that, yeah, that aspect is such a skill and sort of tactics. 157 00:17:08,350.1985 --> 00:17:15,480.198 Take the lead on that sort of oiling, trimming your wing lines, utilizing the swells. 158 00:17:15,850.198 --> 00:17:20,570.197 Take some of the fitness out of it, which, is good for the more mature competitors. 159 00:17:20,950.197 --> 00:17:39,580.197 Yeah, but that's a tough pill to swallow too Having to acknowledge you're now racing age group as opposed to just racing whoever shows up everyone overall Yeah, for sure I always like to start with the background but I got sidetracked with this conversation But let's start from the beginning. 160 00:17:39,600.197 --> 00:17:48,980.197 How did you grow up? I think you grew up in california And you're a Hawaiian and I have a long heritage of water men. 161 00:17:48,990.197 --> 00:17:53,490.197 So talk a little bit about your background and growing up and what you did as a kid. 162 00:17:54,230.197 --> 00:17:54,580.197 Yeah. 163 00:17:54,580.197 --> 00:18:02,490.196 So on the Hawaiian side, my grandfather was originally from kind of Hana Kaupo area. 164 00:18:03,80.197 --> 00:18:11,40.197 My dad grew up in Kaimuki, just in the shadows of Diamond Head and learned to serve there. 165 00:18:11,40.197 --> 00:18:13,210.198 And then his family moved to California. 166 00:18:14,25.198 --> 00:18:19,375.198 When he was still in high school and that's where I met my mom and I came along a few years later. 167 00:18:20,575.198 --> 00:18:36,545.198 So I grew up in Southern Cal when I was very young, just your average Southern California, middle class neighborhood kid riding his twin stingray and clay wheels on the first skateboards I got and climbing trees and just having fun. 168 00:18:36,775.198 --> 00:18:39,405.198 I ended up going to high school in Mammoth. 169 00:18:39,405.198 --> 00:18:41,745.197 So I got really into ski racing for a while. 170 00:18:41,745.198 --> 00:18:43,215.198 And a couple of years after. 171 00:18:43,905.198 --> 00:18:57,85.198 Didn't have the success I was hoping for and took a reprieve to Maui thinking I, okay, I'll regroup, figure out which, which direction my future is going to go. 172 00:18:57,625.198 --> 00:19:00,505.197 And I had just been getting into windsurfing at that time. 173 00:19:01,35.198 --> 00:19:04,785.198 And Maui was the Mecca of windsurfing. 174 00:19:04,805.198 --> 00:19:10,125.198 And what age was that when you went to Maui, like how old were you? I was 20 when I moved to Maui. 175 00:19:10,445.198 --> 00:19:10,965.198 Okay. 176 00:19:11,685.198 --> 00:19:20,905.297 So it was nearly 40 years ago at this point, and got really into it and had some success with it and really didn't put much pressure on myself and just enjoyed it. 177 00:19:21,175.297 --> 00:19:31,30.297 I had very low expectations which I think allowed me the freedom to Excel in my learning curve and my competitiveness. 178 00:19:31,570.297 --> 00:19:35,10.297 So I had good success in wind surfing for, let's say, a decade. 179 00:19:35,520.297 --> 00:19:54,125.297 And at this, at the end of my wind surfing, co surfing, Sorry, like just going back to what, so when you first came, went to Maui, you didn't really have any water sports experience before that, like living in California, you were like, I guess playing football skiing and things like that. 180 00:19:54,125.297 --> 00:20:00,825.297 But what about any, did you surf or did you have any Yeah I learned to surf when I was pretty young. 181 00:20:00,855.297 --> 00:20:00,885.297 Okay. 182 00:20:00,985.297 --> 00:20:02,215.297 My dad was a. 183 00:20:03,855.297 --> 00:20:06,505.297 Very accomplished surfer for way back in the day. 184 00:20:06,505.297 --> 00:20:08,565.297 He won the 1962 U. 185 00:20:08,565.297 --> 00:20:09,125.297 S. 186 00:20:09,245.297 --> 00:20:11,575.297 surfing championships in Huntington Beach. 187 00:20:12,245.297 --> 00:20:17,215.296 So I, I have that foundation of water sports in the family, that legacy. 188 00:20:17,215.297 --> 00:20:25,275.297 My grandfather started the first outrigger canoe club in California early, early sixties, maybe even the late fifties. 189 00:20:25,810.297 --> 00:20:30,760.297 So there was quite the heritage of Waterman already established in the family. 190 00:20:31,400.297 --> 00:20:33,330.297 But I didn't know that much about it. 191 00:20:33,370.297 --> 00:20:37,550.297 I didn't really aspire to be the next one at a young age. 192 00:20:38,85.297 --> 00:20:45,765.297 Until I learned to surf and after a couple years of surfing I learned to surf when I was seven, I think it was, in Newport Beach. 193 00:20:46,325.296 --> 00:20:54,305.296 Got really into the culture and the whole sport, and then I started, like any young surfer, dreaming of surfing. 194 00:20:55,830.296 --> 00:21:05,180.295 being a pro and riding giant waves in Hawaii and all that, but never really expecting it to manifest or become anything. 195 00:21:05,300.296 --> 00:21:06,850.296 Just having fun with it when I was young. 196 00:21:07,330.297 --> 00:21:07,690.297 Yeah. 197 00:21:07,720.297 --> 00:21:11,470.297 So that dream really got backburnered. 198 00:21:12,330.298 --> 00:21:12,830.298 Okay. 199 00:21:13,300.298 --> 00:21:28,415.298 So when you arrived in Maui and then got into windsurfing, what was that like? Like how did you get into it? And like I, My parents bought me a windsurfer for graduation from high school. 200 00:21:29,25.298 --> 00:21:32,585.298 And so I, I learned up in Mammoth in the summertime. 201 00:21:32,605.298 --> 00:22:02,455.397 So it was a lake just down the hill and into it, when I was, I would have been 15 or 16, something like that, and just flat water cruising, nothing high performance at all, just playing around down at the lake, sailing Hobies and learning how to windsurf, And then when I got the windsurfing for my graduation, I got a little more into it because I had my own equipment and I got planing for the first time and that was like a life altering moment. 202 00:22:02,935.396 --> 00:22:19,595.3965 Planing across the water on a windsurfer just blew my mind and that changed the trajectory of my life significantly and got very into windsurfing, which is what ultimately led me to Maui. 203 00:22:20,195.3975 --> 00:22:23,685.3975 I didn't really have any particularly developed skills. 204 00:22:23,685.3975 --> 00:22:28,445.3975 I was below average at best when I first got to Maui. 205 00:22:28,495.3975 --> 00:22:29,175.3965 But I could do it. 206 00:22:29,175.3975 --> 00:22:30,145.3965 I could water start. 207 00:22:30,145.3975 --> 00:22:31,45.3975 I could jive. 208 00:22:31,575.3965 --> 00:22:42,25.3965 But doing it every day with the caliber of riders around me enabled me to accelerate my learning curve significantly. 209 00:22:42,635.3975 --> 00:22:45,895.3975 And then you started competing and you got sponsored. 210 00:22:45,895.3975 --> 00:22:53,405.3975 Is that how you supported yourself with sponsorships or and probably a little bit old Maui cruiser and exactly. 211 00:22:53,565.3975 --> 00:22:54,915.3975 And it's safe back in those days. 212 00:22:55,445.3975 --> 00:23:00,715.3975 Think I, I made a, like a thousand dollars a month and I was living large. 213 00:23:01,915.3975 --> 00:23:03,365.3975 I had enough for gas. 214 00:23:03,365.3975 --> 00:23:05,325.3975 I could buy food and pay my rent. 215 00:23:06,35.3975 --> 00:23:23,40.3985 And times have changed obviously, but Yeah, life was very simple, I didn't need much, and I could not have dreamed of a more, paradise type existence than the first few years I got here to Maui. 216 00:23:24,230.3985 --> 00:23:24,740.3985 Awesome. 217 00:23:25,650.3975 --> 00:23:34,190.3975 Yeah, so and then talk a little bit about how you got into the whole, strap surfing, toe in surfing, toe in foiling, and all that kind of stuff. 218 00:23:34,190.3975 --> 00:23:48,790.3975 You were one of the pioneers who started doing all that stuff, right? Yeah So a classic case of hanging out with the wrong people was the first kind of point Of embarking on all that stuff. 219 00:23:49,320.3975 --> 00:24:15,0.3985 So be careful who you hang out with I say that lovingly and jokingly but there's some truth to it because we all came from windsurfing It almost inherently means that you have an open mind Because at that time surfing was king and it still is, but surfers, while they have this reputation of being free and open minded. 220 00:24:15,545.3985 --> 00:24:22,185.3985 You don't really get to stray far from the established path especially in the 80s. 221 00:24:23,85.3985 --> 00:24:34,100.2985 And so the fact that we were all windsurfers, you had to have an open mind about taking a step away from surfing and trying these alternative versions of surfing. 222 00:24:34,930.3985 --> 00:24:57,880.396 And so with that as a starting point, you're open to other versions and toe surfing, strap surfing, all those things were not a far leap for us in a mindset way to go try, and all the people I was hanging with at that time and windsurfing with had that same mindset. 223 00:24:58,360.396 --> 00:25:10,690.397 And so we were all very much into experimenting with footstraps on surfboards and then incorporating Zodiacs to tow ourselves and then ultimately wave runners and stuff like that. 224 00:25:11,460.396 --> 00:25:22,360.397 And at the time, while it was very kind of innocent and authentic, because we didn't really know. 225 00:25:23,635.397 --> 00:25:37,895.396 What laid ahead, we were just having fun, but when we started experimenting with really large surf, it became very apparent, wow, there's a lot more here than we ever thought. 226 00:25:38,495.397 --> 00:25:51,925.3975 And that's when it started to get more serious because after a few poundings, you realize what you're embarking on and the seriousness and how much power you're interacting with. 227 00:25:52,135.3975 --> 00:25:52,635.3975 And. 228 00:25:53,405.3975 --> 00:26:02,225.3975 That survival is now part of the math that you need to do on a daily basis. 229 00:26:02,835.3975 --> 00:26:04,675.3975 Because at that point we didn't have flotation. 230 00:26:05,265.3975 --> 00:26:10,625.3965 If you wanted to get back to the surface, it was your hands and legs and lungs that were going to get you there. 231 00:26:11,215.3985 --> 00:26:12,415.3975 No flotation. 232 00:26:13,45.3975 --> 00:26:18,755.3975 And fortunately, flotation came along and, has probably saved hundreds of lives. 233 00:26:19,170.3975 --> 00:26:32,140.3985 But we'll never know because you don't have the statistics of those people that would have died had they not been wearing flotation, right? So yeah it started out all fun and games and then it got serious as we really got into the big surf. 234 00:26:33,710.3985 --> 00:26:35,160.3985 Yeah, I can imagine. 235 00:26:35,160.4985 --> 00:26:45,250.4975 At the time too, like most surfers were like, oh, I don't, I wouldn't wear flotation because then I can't dive under the waves, when a big wave comes towards you, you don't want to be floating on the surface. 236 00:26:45,280.4975 --> 00:26:58,960.3985 But yeah, I guess we, I wouldn't get held down if you want to be able to get back up, right? On the waves that we were riding, there basically was no diving under them anymore because they penetrate so deep you. 237 00:26:59,700.4985 --> 00:27:06,920.4985 You just needed to get under the surface so that your head didn't get sheared off as that initial water was coming across the surface. 238 00:27:07,440.4985 --> 00:27:15,960.4985 Once you do that, I don't care if you're 5 feet down or 10 feet, or maybe even 15 feet, you're still going to get caught up in that turbulence. 239 00:27:16,90.4975 --> 00:27:21,50.4965 And so you're better off with flotation on that will help get you back up to the surface much quicker. 240 00:27:21,620.4965 --> 00:27:40,290.4975 So yeah, fortunately we did open our minds, get over our egos enough to allow ourselves to wear the flotation, but it didn't, it took a near death experience for me to get over that hurdle, actually Laird started wearing the flotation before I did. 241 00:27:40,480.4975 --> 00:27:45,750.4975 And Paul Miller was the first one in our group that was wearing flotation. 242 00:27:46,290.4975 --> 00:27:53,320.4975 And then Laird incorporated it, and I used to give him a hard time Ah, come on, what are you doing? Puss, and all this. 243 00:27:53,600.4975 --> 00:27:58,980.4975 And then I had a near death experience, and it was like, Oh, okay, I get it now. 244 00:27:59,560.4975 --> 00:28:00,600.4975 This is for real. 245 00:28:01,330.4975 --> 00:28:02,950.4965 You can die out here. 246 00:28:03,655.4975 --> 00:28:17,265.4975 The next day and for the next several years, I put a lot more emphasis on incorporating flotation, preparing myself, holding my breath, getting stronger and all those things that you need to survive. 247 00:28:18,455.4975 --> 00:28:18,825.4975 Okay. 248 00:28:18,885.4965 --> 00:28:23,215.4965 And then talk a little bit about how, how you got into foiling. 249 00:28:23,245.4965 --> 00:28:32,285.4965 I know, I guess somehow you got an air chair and you put the foil on that surfboard and some stuff, I guess bindings and snowboard boots or whatever it is. 250 00:28:32,285.4965 --> 00:28:35,475.4965 So talk a little bit about that whole, like how that came about. 251 00:28:36,75.4965 --> 00:28:39,655.4965 Yeah, so I want to say it was mid 90s ish. 252 00:28:39,985.4965 --> 00:28:51,85.4965 I don't remember exactly the year, but to my recollection, Brett Lickle got an air chair brought it down to the group and we all decided to give it a go. 253 00:28:51,695.4965 --> 00:28:56,975.4965 And at that point, it was the closest I had ever come to drowning. 254 00:28:57,825.4965 --> 00:29:15,55.496 And we were out in flat water on the Ma'alaya side, and you're sitting on this thing, which feels so foreign right from the start, then it's this bucking bronco effect where you're up, you're down, you're up, you're down, next thing you're down underwater. 255 00:29:15,855.496 --> 00:29:26,45.496 But I was laughing so hard at the experience I was having and I couldn't stop laughing even when I went underwater and I started to inhale a bunch of water. 256 00:29:27,175.496 --> 00:29:42,45.496 I'm a foot and a half from the surface tied into this apparatus that doesn't allow you to swim up very quickly, laughing my head off, almost drowning and I'm trying to get to the surface which is only a foot away. 257 00:29:43,175.496 --> 00:29:48,900.496 Anyway, when I finally broke the surface I was coughing and choking and Still laughing at the same time. 258 00:29:48,950.496 --> 00:29:50,190.496 It was quite the experience. 259 00:29:50,190.496 --> 00:29:53,540.496 And a lot of the other guys had a similar experience. 260 00:29:53,540.496 --> 00:29:54,670.496 We were all laughing at each other. 261 00:29:54,670.496 --> 00:29:55,760.496 It just looks so goofy. 262 00:29:57,120.496 --> 00:30:06,330.496 But in those, I say it looked goofy because we hadn't seen what Mike Murphy and those guys could do on the air chair at that point, when I started to see the videos. 263 00:30:06,810.496 --> 00:30:11,140.496 of them doing these giant airs and flips and twists. 264 00:30:11,140.496 --> 00:30:15,890.496 It was like, whoa, I had no idea these things could do that. 265 00:30:16,460.496 --> 00:30:22,300.497 So being surfers, we were like, okay, sitting down was fun, but we write stuff standing up. 266 00:30:22,780.497 --> 00:30:34,825.497 So it was a natural progression to figure out how do we stand on these things and write them? And it took a few tries because of the foiling And the leverage it had, just standing on it, didn't seem possible. 267 00:30:34,825.497 --> 00:30:37,385.497 Then we tried the foot straps, and that was inadequate. 268 00:30:37,775.497 --> 00:30:41,555.497 And finally it was, I think Laird had snowboard boots and bindings. 269 00:30:42,5.497 --> 00:30:43,655.497 And so we mounted those on him. 270 00:30:44,435.497 --> 00:30:51,25.497 And all of a sudden, voila, we had the ankle support we needed to manipulate the foil and feel like we could actually control it. 271 00:30:51,405.497 --> 00:30:52,275.497 And then, boom. 272 00:30:53,35.497 --> 00:31:02,285.497 We were off and running and it only took us a matter of time to bring waves into the equation and discover. 273 00:31:02,865.497 --> 00:31:04,575.497 Ooh, wow. 274 00:31:06,285.497 --> 00:31:11,295.497 Yeah, this is cool Yeah, we can let go of rope and surf these foils on a wave. 275 00:31:12,385.497 --> 00:31:25,35.499 Yeah, and so that was like, I guess almost 30 years ago, right? So it's crazy how long it took to go from that to actually people like, Kai Lenny surfing doing a downwinder on a foil, so Yeah. 276 00:31:25,35.499 --> 00:31:31,65.499 Why did it take so long to, to evolve? Do you think, or, or is it a long time? I don't know. 277 00:31:31,795.499 --> 00:31:32,955.4985 Yeah, I know it wasn't long. 278 00:31:33,5.4985 --> 00:31:45,595.4985 We were foiling a lot at that time, but I understood you needed the jet ski, the boots, the bindings, which weren't really accessible on a commercial level as a package. 279 00:31:46,125.4985 --> 00:31:50,315.4985 So you had to put some effort into it to combine all the components and get what you needed. 280 00:31:52,115.4975 --> 00:31:54,185.4985 So I understood why it didn't take off. 281 00:31:54,585.4985 --> 00:32:02,465.4985 But it was so fun right from the beginning that we weren't into it for commercial reasons. 282 00:32:02,745.4985 --> 00:32:07,65.4985 We were into it for fun, and we were having so much fun. 283 00:32:07,95.4985 --> 00:32:09,965.4985 We could care less about it if anybody else did it or not. 284 00:32:10,805.4985 --> 00:32:13,295.4985 We were doing it, and that's all that mattered at that point. 285 00:32:13,815.4975 --> 00:32:23,485.4975 And even early on at that point the foils were pretty crude because you were always getting towed behind a boat, so efficiency wasn't that valued. 286 00:32:24,260.4975 --> 00:32:30,500.4975 For the foils that they needed for the air chair, but once we started riding waves, and it was just a pure glide. 287 00:32:32,120.4975 --> 00:32:44,370.4975 I started working on more efficient foils and so got really into that, but looking back at it now, and not really understanding it at the time, we were very restricted on what we could create because all we had access to was. 288 00:32:44,845.4975 --> 00:32:48,655.4975 slalom foil panels of fiberglass. 289 00:32:49,175.4975 --> 00:32:52,495.4975 So that meant you could only make the foil so thick. 290 00:32:53,45.4975 --> 00:32:58,945.4975 And my understanding of how foils work was pretty crude at that time, but they were much more efficient than what was available. 291 00:32:59,265.4975 --> 00:33:04,95.4975 It allowed us to start chasing bigger waves, making smaller foils and things that were custom. 292 00:33:04,585.4975 --> 00:33:08,445.4975 And so I felt like we came a decent way, but we obviously didn't get all the way. 293 00:33:08,925.4975 --> 00:33:10,535.4965 It's funny, when I stopped. 294 00:33:11,395.4975 --> 00:33:12,345.4975 Toe foiling. 295 00:33:13,145.4975 --> 00:33:23,85.4975 I was just starting to experiment with foils that were much higher aspect and more like a glider plane to start trying to downwind. 296 00:33:24,555.4965 --> 00:33:27,705.4975 But stand up paddling at that time was taking off. 297 00:33:28,275.4975 --> 00:33:32,205.498 And so I got off the foil train and onto the train. 298 00:33:32,535.498 --> 00:33:35,285.498 And went all in on that and dropped the ball for a while. 299 00:33:36,955.498 --> 00:33:46,475.498 And then, right before Kai's video, which changed everything, you were seeing these stand up paddle foil wave riders. 300 00:33:46,475.498 --> 00:33:51,415.496 I think I saw one from France a California guy was doing one. 301 00:33:52,355.497 --> 00:34:02,635.4965 And it actually inspired me to even try and, Make a stand up foil board, incorporating all our old toe stuff. 302 00:34:03,405.4965 --> 00:34:07,5.4955 And I went out and tried it in small ways and it was a huge failure. 303 00:34:07,285.4965 --> 00:34:24,655.4965 So I gave up on the concept and that was probably only six months to a year before Kai's video came out and then the, what he had developed with Alex Aguera and when I saw that, it was like, just like everybody else, it was like, wow. 304 00:34:25,530.4965 --> 00:34:26,980.4965 That's, wow. 305 00:34:28,350.4965 --> 00:34:29,170.4965 I want to try that. 306 00:34:29,980.4965 --> 00:34:34,490.4965 And it was really the kiters that really pushed foiling ahead for a while. 307 00:34:34,490.4965 --> 00:34:36,220.4975 Basically, they took up foiling. 308 00:34:36,630.4975 --> 00:34:42,980.497 But yeah, I guess at the time, all the foils were made for high speeds and low drag, and like you said, very thin. 309 00:34:42,980.497 --> 00:34:49,480.498 And then, yeah, I guess what revolutionized it was making foils for slower speeds that could fly at, thicker foils. 310 00:34:49,480.498 --> 00:35:04,760.498 I guess I could figure foils that could fly at lower speeds, that's yeah, but it's interesting that it took so long to get to that point I guess but like you said Maybe it could have happened earlier if you hadn't gotten into stand up paddling But let's talk about that the stand up paddling. 311 00:35:04,840.497 --> 00:35:15,70.4985 And you and laird hamilton are credited for Bringing it like bringing it to the masses, you know So maybe talk about how you guys got into stand up paddling and stand up surfing. 312 00:35:15,600.4985 --> 00:35:25,380.4985 Again, I think that was Late 90s, early 2000s, maybe early 2000s. 313 00:35:25,380.4985 --> 00:35:29,40.4985 I can't remember for sure, but we were both sponsored by Oxbow. 314 00:35:29,50.4985 --> 00:35:31,310.4985 We were doing an Oxbow shoot. 315 00:35:31,920.4985 --> 00:35:35,150.4985 We were at Molly on a very small wave day. 316 00:35:36,420.4985 --> 00:35:42,520.4985 And at that time, we both rode 12 foot long boards consistently in the summertime. 317 00:35:42,990.4985 --> 00:35:49,700.4985 Because we both felt like they were a good training device for big wave surfing in tiny waves. 318 00:35:49,980.4985 --> 00:35:57,210.4985 Because you had to plan your line out so far ahead to fit a 12 foot board and a waist high wave. 319 00:35:57,855.4985 --> 00:36:01,525.4985 And so there was, or at least we created this similarity between the two. 320 00:36:02,65.4985 --> 00:36:10,335.4985 So the boards were big enough that you could stand on them after you kicked out of a wave and the winds, as everybody knows at Ma Lai are off shore. 321 00:36:10,335.4985 --> 00:36:14,435.4975 And so we'd blow back out to the peak and then lay down and catch a wave again. 322 00:36:15,115.4975 --> 00:36:19,125.4985 And after a couple of times, rather than just standing there and letting the wind blow us out. 323 00:36:19,195.4985 --> 00:36:24,635.4985 I was like I had just done a canoe run on the North shore and I had a couple of canoe blades with me. 324 00:36:24,635.4985 --> 00:36:26,520.4985 So I was like, Yeah, I'll be right back. 325 00:36:26,570.4985 --> 00:36:37,630.4985 And I went and grabbed the canoe paddles and I gave one to Laird and we were bent way over to reach the water, but we could paddle back out and be more active to get ourselves back out to the lineup. 326 00:36:38,490.4985 --> 00:36:39,500.4975 And we were having fun. 327 00:36:39,510.4975 --> 00:36:45,490.4975 We were laughing, and it was a cool experience, but I didn't really take it that seriously. 328 00:36:45,800.4975 --> 00:36:47,40.4975 I just thought it was something fun. 329 00:36:47,490.4975 --> 00:36:55,620.4975 Laird took it very seriously and he went out and had some taller paddles made for us the next day from Malama local paddle builder here at Maui. 330 00:36:56,885.4975 --> 00:37:01,395.4975 And all of a sudden we could stand up as we were going back out rather than hunched way over. 331 00:37:01,405.4975 --> 00:37:03,915.4975 It was like that's a lot more functional. 332 00:37:04,605.4975 --> 00:37:10,195.4955 And while I'd like to make it very clear, we, neither of us has ever claimed to invent standup. 333 00:37:10,655.4955 --> 00:37:13,135.496 The Waikiki guys were doing it way before us. 334 00:37:13,135.496 --> 00:37:15,555.4965 The Makaha guys were doing it before us. 335 00:37:16,35.4965 --> 00:37:21,155.4965 I just think that we had the infrastructure around us to share it with a lot more people. 336 00:37:21,225.5965 --> 00:37:26,225.4965 And it caught fire and spread quite a bit. 337 00:37:26,645.4965 --> 00:37:33,705.496 Laird was going back to California in the summer times and sharing it with all those guys and they enjoyed it. 338 00:37:33,705.496 --> 00:37:38,785.4975 And I was doing it with all our friends here on Maui and they got into it. 339 00:37:38,915.4975 --> 00:37:51,930.4975 And almost immediately in the summertime, it's downwind season, right? So downwinders on these big longboards and was going almost as fast as The prone guys that had really efficient boards. 340 00:37:52,560.4975 --> 00:37:57,240.4975 And so I was like okay, look, maybe we need to start developing boards for downwinding and standup. 341 00:37:57,240.4975 --> 00:38:03,360.4965 And yeah, just like everything, always trying to develop, progress, develop, and evolve. 342 00:38:04,420.4965 --> 00:38:04,910.4965 Yeah. 343 00:38:05,160.4975 --> 00:38:05,400.4975 Yeah. 344 00:38:05,400.4975 --> 00:38:24,150.5975 And it's amazing how quickly that became a big sport, and drawing people from a lot of other disciplines, like when a lot of wood surfers got into standup paddling when there's no wind and, And so on I lost my train of thought, but yeah it's just super cool how you're early on and all the development. 345 00:38:24,420.5975 --> 00:38:35,460.5965 So now for Senefeling, I guess you make your own Kalama performance boards, but you also shape boards for what's the brand, I'm sorry Oh, imagine. 346 00:38:35,840.5965 --> 00:38:36,590.5965 Imagine, yeah. 347 00:38:36,590.5965 --> 00:38:39,770.5965 So you're the shaper for Imagine, right? Yeah. 348 00:38:40,300.5965 --> 00:38:47,10.5965 So I've been associated with Imagine stand up for quite some time now. 349 00:38:47,540.5965 --> 00:39:04,210.594 And while stand up as a sport has lost a lot of momentum I feel like it's coming back in a sense, but in a sort of healthier version where it's more about utilizing the versatility of a bigger board. 350 00:39:04,525.595 --> 00:39:07,965.595 And not trying to be a big shortboard anymore. 351 00:39:08,555.595 --> 00:39:11,645.595 It's, you can cruise from peak to peak. 352 00:39:11,645.595 --> 00:39:14,235.595 It's about the exercise, the downwind. 353 00:39:14,775.594 --> 00:39:17,375.595 Now, when I say it's coming back a little bit, a little bit. 354 00:39:18,15.595 --> 00:39:27,285.595 Foiling obviously has all the momentum right now, but it almost seemed like standup was in this fairly steep decline. 355 00:39:27,905.595 --> 00:39:31,85.594 And it's leveled off and maybe creeping back up a little bit. 356 00:39:31,685.595 --> 00:39:44,375.594 Which I'm quite excited about because I still really enjoy it and think it's an awesome sport and has so much to offer anyone of all different ability levels. 357 00:39:44,535.594 --> 00:39:46,315.594 I'm totally seeing the same thing. 358 00:39:46,335.595 --> 00:39:47,45.594 It's not and it's. 359 00:39:47,535.595 --> 00:39:54,765.595 It's not as much of a high performance sport, but there's a big base of stand up paddlers that just enjoy cruising or going out there and paddling. 360 00:39:54,815.595 --> 00:39:59,675.595 It's crazy how many people have inflatable boards, like it's worldwide. 361 00:39:59,675.595 --> 00:40:09,125.596 It's become a huge sport, but yeah, I think the kind of the performance end of it is just especially in Hawaii, it's almost like nobody's participating anymore. 362 00:40:09,125.596 --> 00:40:11,255.596 So everyone's gotten into foiling or whatever. 363 00:40:11,735.596 --> 00:40:20,205.597 But there's still a big a lot of millions of people in the world doing it and wanting more information, wanting equipment and so on. 364 00:40:20,235.597 --> 00:40:23,475.598 Yeah, it seems to still be a healthy sport for sure. 365 00:40:23,475.598 --> 00:40:24,475.598 I totally agree. 366 00:40:24,475.598 --> 00:40:32,85.598 I think it's adopted more of this long board mindset where it's about just the simplicity of it. 367 00:40:32,545.598 --> 00:41:01,975.598 Riding a wave, sliding across the water, the enjoyment of the act in a more large sense and not specific maneuvers and how vertical you get or throwing your fins out which is fine too, but that, that simplicity and pureness of just riding a wave or being able to cruise to the next peak where nobody is there's There's a real simplistic joy that comes along with that. 368 00:41:02,15.598 --> 00:41:08,875.598 And, ultimately you come in, I think a better person cause you're happier, nothing wrong with that. 369 00:41:09,635.598 --> 00:41:12,795.598 And it's also much more accessible for the average person, foiling. 370 00:41:12,795.598 --> 00:41:23,785.599 It does take a lot of effort and skill and equipment to get good at it versus stand up paddling is like almost anybody can try it and get into it and then have fun right away. 371 00:41:23,795.599 --> 00:41:33,945.498 That aspect that you mentioned right there is really an interesting aspect of foiling. 372 00:41:34,15.499 --> 00:41:41,715.499 It is so difficult that I really had trouble envisioning this becoming a big sport like it has. 373 00:41:42,285.499 --> 00:41:45,545.5 Like when kiting first started, it was so damn dangerous. 374 00:41:45,935.5 --> 00:41:49,315.5 I thought there's no way this sport is ever going to become anything. 375 00:41:49,745.5 --> 00:41:57,315.5 Because it's too dangerous and I have the same sort of vision of what foiling might be like. 376 00:41:57,315.5 --> 00:42:00,545.499 It's so difficult and there's this danger aspect. 377 00:42:00,545.5 --> 00:42:02,805.5 I don't see it getting that large. 378 00:42:04,315.5 --> 00:42:16,665.5 Like kiting, the technique develops, the equipment develops, and I actually think that difficulty and that challenge is what is so attractive about it. 379 00:42:17,835.5 --> 00:42:39,405.501 You have to earn it! And when you struggle as long as you do, like everyone does, almost everyone, some of the kids don't struggle, but for the average person, there is a struggle and you have to work and earn it, and when you do get that payoff and that glide, it is such a wonderful sensation and it's so gratifying. 380 00:42:39,915.5 --> 00:42:42,875.5 You're like, this sport is really cool. 381 00:42:43,355.5 --> 00:42:46,955.5 And I think that's what's attracted everyone to it. 382 00:42:48,125.5 --> 00:42:48,905.5 Yeah, for sure. 383 00:42:48,905.5 --> 00:42:54,165.5 If it's something that's hard to do it's much more rewarding when you're actually successful at it, right? Yeah, definitely. 384 00:42:55,105.5 --> 00:42:56,675.5 That's definitely an aspect of it. 385 00:42:56,695.5 --> 00:42:57,895.5 Interesting 100%. 386 00:42:58,215.5 --> 00:42:59,985.5 You're wearing that Nomotu shirt. 387 00:43:00,95.5 --> 00:43:04,495.4995 Talk a little bit about your Kalama camps and what, what happens in those camps. 388 00:43:04,495.4995 --> 00:43:08,115.5 I've seen pictures and videos and it always looks amazing. 389 00:43:08,125.5 --> 00:43:27,580.499 But what is that all about? That's the tagline for it is sharing the waterman's lifestyle, and that really is the theme and the motive is such a so epitomizes that mindset and that lifestyle where you're completely immersed. 390 00:43:28,270.499 --> 00:43:35,930.499 In a water lifestyle, you're on a five acre island, surrounded by water, surrounded by some of the best surf breaks in the world. 391 00:43:36,890.499 --> 00:43:41,0.499 And there's all different level waves you can ride. 392 00:43:41,800.499 --> 00:43:45,360.499 And some of them are perfect for stand up and longboarding. 393 00:43:45,770.498 --> 00:43:47,360.499 For foiling too. 394 00:43:47,610.498 --> 00:43:50,630.499 When the wind comes up, winging, kiting. 395 00:43:51,250.499 --> 00:43:53,10.499 It's just a water sports. 396 00:43:53,685.499 --> 00:43:54,235.499 Mecca. 397 00:43:55,405.499 --> 00:44:12,245.5 And so while the basis of the camp and the foundation was about stand up and longboarding, we can accommodate and encourage you to try all these other water sports, oiling, winging kiting to some degree. 398 00:44:12,465.499 --> 00:44:16,305.499 It's not a focal point for us, but we have guys that can teach kiting. 399 00:44:16,865.499 --> 00:44:20,475.499 Snorkeling, just cruising flat water. 400 00:44:21,195.499 --> 00:44:30,365.498 Whatever it is we've got a four man surf canoe down there that Leon puts a sail on and can go canoe sailing or wave riding on the canoe. 401 00:44:31,85.499 --> 00:44:44,365.499 And so just to share that lifestyle is like an enjoyment it can bring and help, keep all your priorities in order and your philosophy healthy. 402 00:44:45,455.499 --> 00:44:54,705.499 In a very general life sense, while at the same time laughing, smiling, learning everything that the ocean has to offer. 403 00:44:55,245.5 --> 00:44:56,235.4995 Yeah, it sounds amazing. 404 00:44:56,235.4995 --> 00:45:04,525.5005 So how many people are in the camps usually and how long is it for? So it runs for a week from Sunday to Sunday. 405 00:45:04,695.5005 --> 00:45:07,825.5005 They happen in the first and third week of November. 406 00:45:08,395.5005 --> 00:45:10,885.5005 I've got Tom Carroll's one of my coaches. 407 00:45:11,290.5005 --> 00:45:16,500.5005 And a dear friend, he is such a pleasure to spend time with, whether there were campers there or not. 408 00:45:16,510.5005 --> 00:45:19,630.5005 I enjoy his company as much as any of the campers do. 409 00:45:20,90.4995 --> 00:45:26,20.5005 I've got Colin McPhillips 2, 3 time longboard champion from California. 410 00:45:26,130.4995 --> 00:45:30,60.4995 He's a pleasure to surf with and I love being in the water with him. 411 00:45:30,770.4995 --> 00:45:47,40.4995 Because we have a similar philosophy about how to ride waves and so every time I can, I want to be in the water with him because I'll watch him ride a wave and it'll inspire me to try and, okay if you can do that, watch this, we try and one up each other and in a really fun way. 412 00:45:47,40.4995 --> 00:45:48,910.4995 So it's so fun. 413 00:45:49,60.5005 --> 00:45:53,150.4995 And then to give that kind of knowledge and experience. 414 00:45:53,900.4995 --> 00:45:58,430.4995 And information and share that with people and help them grow and evolve in their surfing. 415 00:45:58,950.4995 --> 00:46:00,650.4995 Evolutions is really fun. 416 00:46:01,310.4995 --> 00:46:06,210.5005 I've got Rory from as from Australia, both from Australia. 417 00:46:06,330.4995 --> 00:46:08,870.4985 We bring Pip in as our celebrity cook. 418 00:46:09,440.4995 --> 00:46:11,180.4995 And so the food is amazing. 419 00:46:11,470.4995 --> 00:46:16,490.4995 And just the pigeons themselves are really what, for me, it's all about. 420 00:46:16,500.4995 --> 00:46:22,840.4995 I've traveled so many places in the world, and I've never come across a culture where. 421 00:46:23,695.4995 --> 00:46:35,875.4985 They don't have much, but they are the happiest group of people I've ever spent time with, and they give each other shit just like good friends do. 422 00:46:35,945.4995 --> 00:46:41,275.4995 And they laugh and they take enjoyment from the simple things in life. 423 00:46:41,525.4985 --> 00:46:43,785.4995 And they share that with everyone that comes there. 424 00:46:44,525.4995 --> 00:46:49,705.4995 And it's just such a wonderful experience to be around that type of energy and. 425 00:46:50,440.4995 --> 00:46:55,300.4995 And level of life, so that happens every November, two weeks in November. 426 00:46:56,540.4995 --> 00:46:56,860.4995 Yeah. 427 00:46:56,930.4995 --> 00:47:06,20.501 And we typically don't have a lot of openings, but if you're slightly interested, reach out to us through Kalama camp with a K dot com. 428 00:47:06,600.501 --> 00:47:07,960.501 And get yourself on the list. 429 00:47:07,960.501 --> 00:47:12,530.501 And when an open opening becomes available, we'll reach out to you and see if you can attend. 430 00:47:13,265.501 --> 00:47:13,775.501 Awesome. 431 00:47:13,865.501 --> 00:47:14,315.501 Awesome. 432 00:47:15,745.501 --> 00:47:18,315.501 So let's talk a little bit about wing foiling. 433 00:47:18,395.501 --> 00:47:24,985.501 This is supposed to be a show about wing foiling, but I know you make wingfoil boards and you're, you are really into windsurfing. 434 00:47:25,300.501 --> 00:47:29,240.501 So I'm actually surprised that you're not more into wing foiling. 435 00:47:29,250.501 --> 00:47:38,560.501 So have have you done it a bunch or like, how come you're not like out there doing flips and stuff like that? Let's start with the easy one first. 436 00:47:38,720.5 --> 00:47:42,380.501 Why am I not doing flips in that? Because I can't. 437 00:47:43,100.5 --> 00:47:45,250.501 And if I tried, I'd hurt myself. 438 00:47:45,770.501 --> 00:47:47,160.501 I'm not 20 anymore. 439 00:47:47,620.501 --> 00:47:50,380.5 And while I can do a lot of stuff, that's not one of them. 440 00:47:51,50.5 --> 00:47:59,210.5 I did get into the winging initially when it was very young and I figured it out and I can do jibes and I can cruise back and forth. 441 00:48:00,150.5 --> 00:48:15,550.5 But quite honestly, what dawned on me was, hey, I'm mowing the lawn again, meaning I'm going back and forth, which at the end of windsurfing was the same sensation I had going back and forth. 442 00:48:17,245.5 --> 00:48:20,95.5 Now when you throw a wave into the mix, that's a whole different thing. 443 00:48:20,385.5 --> 00:48:29,995.499 I quite enjoy that and on rare occasions will still go do it, but the flat water cruising back and forth has never really been where I draw a lot of enjoyment. 444 00:48:30,675.5 --> 00:48:34,395.5 And so I didn't get hooked, I can do it. 445 00:48:34,795.5 --> 00:48:42,635.5 I think it's, A absolute fantastic entry point for most people to get into foiling. 446 00:48:43,135.5 --> 00:48:56,335.5 It gives you an opportunity to spend so much time on foil and figure out all the little nuances and trimming and the controls and the board skills that you need and if you stay there, fine it's an epic version of foiling. 447 00:48:57,85.5 --> 00:49:02,665.5 But I think for a lot of people, it's a gateway to go to downwinding, the way of writing. 448 00:49:03,135.5 --> 00:49:06,225.5 Whatever it might be but it's fine all within itself. 449 00:49:06,895.5 --> 00:49:11,505.5 And I just put my focus on the downwinding, the wave riding. 450 00:49:11,935.5 --> 00:49:23,585.4995 And because of how much I work these days, I do very much have a limited amount of time to, to dedicate to foiling or stand up or whatever it is in the water. 451 00:49:24,105.4995 --> 00:49:29,715.4995 So I've got to be selective on on what versions I do or the limited time I have to do it. 452 00:49:30,165.5005 --> 00:49:30,525.5005 Sorry. 453 00:49:30,980.5005 --> 00:49:40,620.5005 Downwinding and wave riding usually take priority, but when I go to Japan, I usually jump on a wing again and cruise around because that's what's available. 454 00:49:40,800.4995 --> 00:49:43,420.5005 And like I say I think it's a great sport. 455 00:49:43,690.5005 --> 00:49:48,850.5005 I have fun when I do it, but, it's not a huge focal point for me in my own personal. 456 00:49:49,740.5005 --> 00:49:51,560.5005 Utilization, but. 457 00:49:52,50.5015 --> 00:50:17,140.501 In terms of providing boards for it I think a lot of what has made the Barracuda so successful, the efficiency and making it easier to get up on the foil also expands how much you can go winging, because if you only need, say, five or six, seven knots, most places throughout the country and the world, for that matter, have that kind of wind. 458 00:50:17,790.501 --> 00:50:29,150.501 And so with the efficiency of these boards and how efficient the foils are and the selection you have to pick from now, that means you can go out and have a ball in hardly any wind at all. 459 00:50:29,860.501 --> 00:50:36,217.8705652 Yeah, it's interesting how many people have picked up those boards for light wind winging too. 460 00:50:36,217.8705652 --> 00:50:37,71.7662174 It's interesting. 461 00:50:37,71.7662174 --> 00:50:39,633.4531739 Yeah, it's lowered the entry level. 462 00:50:41,93.5531739 --> 00:50:44,553.5531739 To go out and do it and have a ball doing it for sure. 463 00:50:45,83.5531739 --> 00:50:49,893.5531739 Yeah, so I guess for you when it's windy, you go downwind foiling. 464 00:50:50,103.5531739 --> 00:50:53,383.5531739 And then when the wind's light, you go stand up foiling, mostly. 465 00:50:53,423.5531739 --> 00:50:57,353.5521739 And then I guess you throw in some standup surfing and other sports. 466 00:50:57,383.5521739 --> 00:51:00,243.5521739 Like what I guess I'm mostly working these days. 467 00:51:00,243.5521739 --> 00:51:05,933.5521739 You say, yeah, I'm, that's a good summation of what I'm doing on the water. 468 00:51:05,998.6521739 --> 00:51:22,718.5521739 What's your typical day what time do you get up and then do you have some kind of morning routine? Do you exercise and then talk about your average work day or what do you do during the day? So I usually get up between four and five some mornings, but not every morning. 469 00:51:22,788.5521739 --> 00:51:27,108.5531739 I'll go through a little stretching and I hate to call what I do yoga. 470 00:51:27,168.5531739 --> 00:51:40,78.5531739 It's an insult to yoga, but I do try and dabble with the breathing, the stretching and the calmness that it can bring. 471 00:51:40,178.5531739 --> 00:51:59,598.5531739 I don't do it enough, but I do it, usually have a little coffee and toast and then out into the workshop, which I have here at my house and slinging resin, shaping boards, prepping boards that need to get shipped, boxing them. 472 00:52:00,228.5521739 --> 00:52:02,98.5511739 I've moved up to head box boy. 473 00:52:02,723.5521739 --> 00:52:05,883.5521739 The company and delivery person. 474 00:52:05,883.5521739 --> 00:52:08,593.5521739 So I'm really making a headway in the company. 475 00:52:09,753.5521739 --> 00:52:12,83.5516739 So you're a little bit like Jimmy Lewis. 476 00:52:12,83.5516739 --> 00:52:23,873.5511739 He does basically everything from start to finish on his boards, right? Is that kind of how you, or do you have anybody helping you at all? On the custom orders, I do everything up to painting. 477 00:52:24,393.5511739 --> 00:52:25,683.5511739 And I'm in on my boards. 478 00:52:25,683.5511739 --> 00:52:29,343.5511739 That's fairly early on in the process because we hand laminate. 479 00:52:29,353.5511739 --> 00:52:30,573.5511739 It's more old school. 480 00:52:31,133.5511739 --> 00:52:32,403.5511739 But there's a lot of carbon. 481 00:52:32,403.5511739 --> 00:52:38,633.5501739 There's a lot of high density foam incorporated in the areas that need that type of reinforcement. 482 00:52:39,233.5501739 --> 00:52:46,913.5501739 But like I say, I get the boards painted and then I hand them off to Dave Peterson who builds them out for me from there. 483 00:52:47,473.5501739 --> 00:52:48,313.5501739 On the custom orders. 484 00:52:48,313.5501739 --> 00:52:50,433.5501739 On all the prototypes and my own boards. 485 00:52:51,33.5501739 --> 00:52:58,333.5501739 I do everything myself, but speaking of Jimmy Lewis, very much like him I gotta say thank you to Jimmy. 486 00:52:58,333.5501739 --> 00:53:11,473.5501739 He's been so supportive in my whole evolution of becoming a shaper from giving me boxes to ship stand up boards before foiling ever came along supporting my dad with surfboards. 487 00:53:12,888.5501739 --> 00:53:18,388.5501739 Yeah, I got a lot of love for Jimmy and I really appreciate the support he's offered me along the way. 488 00:53:18,388.5501739 --> 00:53:19,368.5511739 Yeah, I really appreciate it. 489 00:53:19,378.5511739 --> 00:53:28,208.551174 He's He is funny when I, before I learned to shape myself, I'd look at Jimmy boards and I'd go, Oh, I do this different than I do that different. 490 00:53:28,448.551174 --> 00:53:35,498.550174 But always knowing that his board were really well made and really clean after I learned how to shape and I actually knew what I was looking at. 491 00:53:36,168.551174 --> 00:53:41,918.551174 I had so much more appreciation for how clean everything he did. 492 00:53:42,478.551174 --> 00:53:45,443.451174 All the lines in his board are so clean and perfect. 493 00:53:46,93.551174 --> 00:53:48,293.551174 Boy, I have a much deeper appreciation. 494 00:53:48,293.551174 --> 00:53:51,393.551174 Now I still have my own opinions on how a board should be. 495 00:53:51,883.551174 --> 00:53:54,743.551174 And they don't all align with anybody, which is a good thing. 496 00:53:55,353.551174 --> 00:53:59,903.551174 But yeah a lot of admiration and respect for Jimmy. 497 00:54:00,658.552174 --> 00:54:17,708.551174 Yeah, he's amazing too about how he basically keeps no secrets, he just shares all his knowledge and happy to share it with everybody, doesn't hold back, which is pretty rare these days, it seems and then, you also make your production boards in the same factory as Jimmy, right? Yes. 498 00:54:18,38.552174 --> 00:54:24,653.552174 I know he goes over there, he goes to Vietnam and handshapes the boards and The plugs and stuff like that. 499 00:54:24,663.552174 --> 00:54:30,303.552174 Do you do that, too? Or do you have computer shaping? You go over there and shape them by hand? Yep. 500 00:54:30,383.552174 --> 00:54:37,473.552174 Obviously through COVID, we had to change the process a little bit, but prior to yeah, very much the same thing. 501 00:54:37,473.552174 --> 00:54:48,393.552174 In fact, most of the time, I had to check and make sure Jimmy wasn't going to be there so that I could go and do the same thing and have the attention and the infrastructure and support that I would need to create what I wanted to create over there. 502 00:54:48,868.552174 --> 00:55:00,218.552174 But yeah, that fact, the kinetic factory is really top notch and super helpful in helping you create the designs and manufacture and their qualities just unmatched. 503 00:55:00,668.552174 --> 00:55:00,948.552174 Yeah. 504 00:55:00,948.552174 --> 00:55:01,698.552174 It's phenomenal. 505 00:55:01,698.552174 --> 00:55:04,908.553174 That's the how light and strong the boards are. 506 00:55:04,908.653174 --> 00:55:06,248.653174 It's pretty amazing. 507 00:55:06,278.653174 --> 00:55:14,238.654174 So really happy with our boards too, that we started using them recently and loving the, the whole process. 508 00:55:14,238.654174 --> 00:55:14,748.654174 They're great. 509 00:55:14,798.654174 --> 00:55:15,68.654174 Yeah. 510 00:55:15,68.654174 --> 00:55:18,598.654174 But yeah, most of my shaping is basic computer shaping. 511 00:55:18,598.654174 --> 00:55:28,148.653174 I don't do a lot of hand shaping, but I have a lot of respect for that because it's definitely a different different animal to, cut off a blank and do all that. 512 00:55:28,718.652174 --> 00:55:34,118.652174 I do both technologies, usually I start out with full hand shape of a concept. 513 00:55:34,638.652174 --> 00:55:35,658.652174 When I have an idea. 514 00:55:36,418.652174 --> 00:55:45,858.652174 Or with my long boards or my stand up boards see if I can get it right from my idea into something tangible. 515 00:55:46,338.652174 --> 00:55:55,498.652174 And then if I do like it and it works well after I've tested it, then I might try and go through the process of creating a digital file so that I can replicate it. 516 00:55:56,178.652174 --> 00:56:00,413.452174 And you were one of the first to actually make boards specifically for foiling yeah. 517 00:56:00,963.552174 --> 00:56:11,703.551674 Thinking of, instead of just using a surfboard shape and putting a foil on it, you started making boards that are designed with foiling in mind and making them ideal for foiling. 518 00:56:11,773.551674 --> 00:56:40,33.552674 Talk a little bit about that, like where and how it evolved and like what your thoughts are now, has anything changed and how you think of a foil board, other than, narrow and long for the stand up foiling, just what's your philosophy? Early on in the process, like most shapers that got into making foil boards, I was just making a modified surfboard for foiling. 519 00:56:41,613.552674 --> 00:57:00,583.451674 And it wasn't until I went through a process in my own development where I had to learn to let go of fear and judgment of other shapers, people in general and that whole fear of being judged. 520 00:57:01,503.551674 --> 00:57:07,363.551674 And it was a process and I put a lot of conscious effort into it to get myself over that hump. 521 00:57:08,113.551674 --> 00:57:13,453.550674 And when I did that's when I start thinking outside the box. 522 00:57:13,833.550674 --> 00:57:19,813.549674 And when I really started making foil boards, as opposed to modified surfboards. 523 00:57:20,223.550674 --> 00:57:26,733.550674 And that was the first big breakthrough for me when I went to that basically surfable shoe box. 524 00:57:27,343.550674 --> 00:57:32,723.550674 Ultimately, perhaps one of the ugliest things ever created to ride a wave. 525 00:57:34,83.550674 --> 00:57:38,363.550674 But for foiling, it was amazing. 526 00:57:39,383.550674 --> 00:57:43,853.550674 And then the beauty came from how well it worked. 527 00:57:44,773.550674 --> 00:57:58,933.550674 And usually when you find things that work well, They become good looking to you while it initially prior to having any experience with them your, I just see something different and usually different is interpreted as ugly. 528 00:57:59,763.549674 --> 00:58:05,873.550674 And I went through the same process as everybody else, but I wasn't afraid of being judged anymore. 529 00:58:05,873.551674 --> 00:58:08,523.550674 And that's what allowed me to create those early boards. 530 00:58:09,33.550674 --> 00:58:12,913.550674 And discover and learn a lot about what was going on. 531 00:58:13,543.550674 --> 00:58:14,633.550674 And so from that. 532 00:58:15,68.550674 --> 00:58:32,878.549674 That steep learning curve and not letting my ego get in the way of that process, it allowed me to go through the process of learning and developing and ultimately getting to the Barracuda, a lot quicker than I might have had, I stuck with making versions of surfboards. 533 00:58:34,128.549674 --> 00:58:40,178.549674 And so it was really an interesting process for me and helped me grow as a shaper significantly, but. 534 00:58:40,803.549674 --> 00:58:50,403.548674 Like most people, I was very afraid, especially not being an established shaper of what, my mentors would think, Jerry Lopez. 535 00:58:50,968.549674 --> 00:58:54,818.549674 Jeff Timponi Jimmy Lewis, guys like that. 536 00:58:55,328.549674 --> 00:59:03,188.549674 I was terrified early on, but once I got over that fear and went, screw it, I don't care what they think I'm going to make what I want to make. 537 00:59:03,188.549674 --> 00:59:06,358.549674 And it might work and might not, but let's find out. 538 00:59:07,698.549674 --> 00:59:07,968.549174 Yeah. 539 00:59:07,968.549174 --> 00:59:10,718.548174 And obviously very successful with your designs. 540 00:59:10,718.548174 --> 00:59:13,558.548174 It seems like everybody's always copying what you're doing. 541 00:59:13,578.548174 --> 00:59:22,188.548174 Yeah, how do you feel about that? Are you do you feel like that's it's a cool thing that everyone's copying you or are you hey I that's that was my idea. 542 00:59:22,208.548174 --> 00:59:39,108.547174 How come you're using this? Like how do you feel? I don't think it's cool But I would much rather have them copy me than me copy them and like shaping and fear. 543 00:59:39,108.547174 --> 00:59:40,908.547174 I it was another process. 544 00:59:40,908.547174 --> 00:59:47,653.548174 I had to go through and learn and find some peace within it You And understand that ultimately that's a good thing. 545 00:59:48,23.548174 --> 00:59:52,733.548174 I wouldn't want it any other way because that would mean I'd be copying somebody else. 546 00:59:56,33.547174 --> 01:00:00,383.547174 And Hey, look, it's not a new phenomenon and let's face it. 547 01:00:00,513.548174 --> 01:00:06,593.548174 I copied the guys that created standup boards and long boards before me. 548 01:00:06,603.548174 --> 01:00:08,813.548174 We're all copying somebody ahead of us. 549 01:00:09,33.548174 --> 01:00:12,803.548174 Just happened to be that guy in the foil genre. 550 01:00:13,343.548174 --> 01:00:28,633.548174 That's a little bit out ahead of most other people when it comes to new concepts, because the sport's so new, I don't claim to be smarter, more talented or anything of that nature than any other shaper out there. 551 01:00:29,213.547174 --> 01:00:43,483.548174 I just was in the right place at the right time and managed to get the right mindset to allow myself to learn a lot quickly and experiment with designs that never existed. 552 01:00:45,48.548174 --> 01:01:13,848.548174 And so a lot of it was just luck, but it's still as a competitor, as someone competing within this industry, you like to create a, an advantage for yourself in this competition, right? And to see someone take that advantage that I created and utilize it to their advantage, took a second to learn how to be okay with that. 553 01:01:13,848.548174 --> 01:01:17,158.548174 But I am now, and I don't want to be an angry person. 554 01:01:17,563.548174 --> 01:01:21,603.548174 Because if I didn't get over it, I would be angry and that's not who I want to be. 555 01:01:21,603.548174 --> 01:01:22,893.548174 And that's not how I want to live. 556 01:01:23,633.548174 --> 01:01:25,703.548174 And so I accept it. 557 01:01:25,753.548174 --> 01:01:26,993.548174 It's part of the process. 558 01:01:27,143.547174 --> 01:01:33,683.547174 There's been many guys that have been copied so much more than me in so many different industries. 559 01:01:34,883.547174 --> 01:01:41,843.547674 And, I listened to one of the really big music producers and his name slipping my mind right now. 560 01:01:41,853.547674 --> 01:01:43,273.547674 It'll come to me anyway. 561 01:01:44,223.548674 --> 01:02:02,443.547674 One of his messages as a creative person was you can't focus on what other people are doing, you have to focus on what you're doing and stay pure in that and let your creativity be untethered or undiluted by distractions of other people. 562 01:02:03,33.548674 --> 01:02:09,823.548674 Just stay focused on what you do and that's what's going to allow you to be your best version of yourself. 563 01:02:10,543.548674 --> 01:02:11,53.548674 And. 564 01:02:12,353.548674 --> 01:02:13,673.548674 It made a lot of sense to me. 565 01:02:13,673.548674 --> 01:02:20,613.548674 And so I've really tried to adopt that philosophy and pull on and just not worry about what anybody's doing. 566 01:02:21,393.548674 --> 01:02:22,293.548674 They're having fun. 567 01:02:23,23.548674 --> 01:02:24,183.548674 They're doing what they do. 568 01:02:24,743.548674 --> 01:02:26,843.548674 And it's not really like you can do anything about it. 569 01:02:26,843.548674 --> 01:02:38,388.549174 Shaping is one of those things I think with music, you can get a copyright with inventions, you can get a patent or whatever, but With the shape, it's so hard because, even just changing it slightly, then it's not the same anymore. 570 01:02:38,388.549174 --> 01:02:41,948.549174 It's there's no way to protect your intellectual property, really. 571 01:02:41,998.549174 --> 01:02:49,638.548174 I guess the best thing is just to always innovate and have the next generation when everyone else is copying your last generation. 572 01:02:49,708.548174 --> 01:02:50,8.548174 Yeah. 573 01:02:50,308.548174 --> 01:02:51,48.548174 Exactly. 574 01:02:51,98.548174 --> 01:03:00,208.549174 It's, I compare it to, I used to, When we'd ride Piahi, a lot of people would want to come and ride Piahi, and not everybody was necessarily qualified. 575 01:03:00,758.549174 --> 01:03:04,958.549174 But I understood the drive and the attraction of wanting to do it. 576 01:03:06,668.549174 --> 01:03:18,488.548174 It's so amazing to ride one of those waves, that why wouldn't anybody want to do it, and if you're a shaper, or a designer, or a creator you want to create. 577 01:03:19,68.548174 --> 01:03:22,998.548174 And if you draw inspiration from people that have come before. 578 01:03:23,338.548174 --> 01:03:24,888.548174 That's the normal process. 579 01:03:25,68.548174 --> 01:03:38,78.548174 That's what everyone does, right? And you look at someone like Simon Anderson who created thruster within a few weeks Everyone had a version of a thruster and he didn't protect it. 580 01:03:38,78.548174 --> 01:04:04,968.548174 And so he's never really made any money off of it But that's how it is and you just keep designing you keep moving forward and learn how to not be angry because Would you rather have not created the thruster? That was a huge development in surf design, and everyone knows it, or at least that's the information I know, and that's a great problem. 581 01:04:06,268.548174 --> 01:04:15,958.548174 You're very lucky if you have an experience like that, yeah, you're definitely you'll be always be known as the pioneer of a lot of the foil shapes, I'm sure, yeah. 582 01:04:16,928.548174 --> 01:04:18,378.548174 Sure, people will remember that. 583 01:04:18,548.548174 --> 01:04:23,78.548174 And, just along the way, you've always been on the forefront, standard paddling, foiling. 584 01:04:24,358.548174 --> 01:04:25,508.548174 Yeah, new sport. 585 01:04:25,508.548174 --> 01:04:48,358.547174 So I'm just curious what do you see you see anything coming or what's next? What's going to be the next big thing that you think there's another thing coming after boiling or developing, or do you have any insights into anything like that, like what's coming in the future, the answer to your basic question of. 586 01:04:49,323.547174 --> 01:04:51,823.547174 What's coming next? The answer is yes. 587 01:04:52,483.547174 --> 01:04:53,813.547174 There is something coming. 588 01:04:54,803.547174 --> 01:05:01,213.547174 If I knew exactly what it was then maybe I could actually make some money at this, but I don't. 589 01:05:01,353.547174 --> 01:05:02,233.547174 I have no clue. 590 01:05:02,693.547174 --> 01:05:15,743.548174 I think as long as I just keep an open mind and keep experimenting and paying attention to all the little details, the failures, probably more of the failures than the success, because that's where you ultimately learn more in my opinion. 591 01:05:16,123.548174 --> 01:05:22,703.548174 I leave myself open to the potential of creating something that's new. 592 01:05:23,643.548174 --> 01:05:27,303.548174 There's no guarantee it might be somebody else. 593 01:05:27,303.548174 --> 01:05:31,133.547174 And now the tables are turned and I'm playing catch up to follow somebody else. 594 01:05:31,133.548174 --> 01:05:32,613.547174 That's very much a possibility. 595 01:05:33,873.547174 --> 01:05:34,543.548174 So I don't know. 596 01:05:34,573.548174 --> 01:05:35,33.548174 We'll see. 597 01:05:35,283.547174 --> 01:05:38,993.548174 But I have, I've got ideas just like everybody else does. 598 01:05:39,473.548174 --> 01:05:41,448.448174 You experiment, you try them. 599 01:05:41,998.548174 --> 01:05:48,528.548174 Usually there's some failure involved along the way and how you respond to that failure is what ultimately might make you successful. 600 01:05:49,178.548174 --> 01:05:52,98.549174 Whether it be a small thing or something significant, you never know. 601 01:05:52,628.549174 --> 01:05:57,488.548174 But just going through that process, I get a lot of joy from whether there is a big payoff or not. 602 01:05:57,878.549174 --> 01:05:59,488.549174 It's fun to do it. 603 01:06:00,358.549174 --> 01:06:06,628.549174 Yeah, and then just be being in Maui to having that environment and all the people like that are. 604 01:06:07,193.549174 --> 01:06:10,593.549174 Innovators and open to new ideas and trying things. 605 01:06:10,593.549174 --> 01:06:16,683.549174 It's such a hotbed for innovation, too, for, for water sports anyway, water and wind sports. 606 01:06:16,703.549174 --> 01:06:19,243.548174 And yeah, you're definitely part of it. 607 01:06:19,643.550174 --> 01:06:22,413.550174 I wouldn't doubt if something really cool comes out of Maui. 608 01:06:22,413.550174 --> 01:06:25,143.550174 There's a lot of really smart people here. 609 01:06:25,543.550174 --> 01:06:27,583.550174 Really love what they do in the water. 610 01:06:27,723.550174 --> 01:06:39,323.551174 And I'm sure just like me, their brains always ticking on what I can tweak, what I can do next, what if I did this, what if I did that and that's fun, no matter who you are. 611 01:06:40,443.550174 --> 01:06:40,913.550174 Awesome. 612 01:06:41,543.551174 --> 01:06:49,113.552174 I'm doing the Molokai race in a few days, the Maui to Molokai stand up paddle race on a 14 foot stock board. 613 01:06:49,513.552174 --> 01:06:51,63.552174 So you've done it many times. 614 01:06:51,73.552174 --> 01:07:06,313.551174 Do you have any pointers or? Strategies, any coaching tips you can give for that race? Yeah, without taking too much time or getting too in the weeds. 615 01:07:06,953.552174 --> 01:07:26,283.551174 I like one of the biggest struggles in that race is maintaining a good attitude, because if you can maintain that, you give yourself the best chance of success or reaching whatever your potential is, right? That race more than anyone else. 616 01:07:26,313.552174 --> 01:07:28,13.552174 And especially in the paddling. 617 01:07:29,193.552174 --> 01:07:40,33.552174 Aspects or genres, be it standup, canoe, prone paddleboarding, you are going to go through highs and lows. 618 01:07:41,623.551174 --> 01:08:03,943.552174 And if you don't get too happy during the highs, or especially more so too low during the lows, and you just keep an even keel and just keep grinding, keep breathing, keep hydrated, even when you don't need to, if you hydrate when you need to, It's already too late. 619 01:08:05,283.552174 --> 01:08:12,373.552174 So figure out a good hydration, calorie intake program before you even get to the starting line. 620 01:08:13,23.552174 --> 01:08:20,733.551174 And mine was usually like every 10 to 15 minutes, just take a little hit to try and fend off actually getting thirsty. 621 01:08:21,963.552174 --> 01:08:24,883.552174 And so your body has a chance to work at a more efficient level. 622 01:08:24,883.552174 --> 01:08:28,313.552174 Your muscles have a chance to work at a more efficient level. 623 01:08:29,348.552174 --> 01:08:47,38.552174 Breathing can help keep your mind calm, but it also feeds your muscles with oxygen, which is what you can do in the moment to give yourself more energy and more efficiency in the requirements that your muscles need to expend all that energy. 624 01:08:47,718.551174 --> 01:09:03,68.552174 So I just like to tell people, breathe, stay calm, especially when things seem to be going wrong, because it will turn your, the rest of your race won't be horrible. 625 01:09:04,33.552174 --> 01:09:11,853.552174 It might be horrible for a few minutes, but it will change and you'll get a couple of bumps and you'll be like, hey, I'm on a roll here. 626 01:09:12,433.552174 --> 01:09:14,153.552174 I might do pretty damn good. 627 01:09:15,173.552174 --> 01:09:21,153.551174 And as soon as you start believing that, here comes another valley to even it all out. 628 01:09:21,153.552174 --> 01:09:24,233.551174 So you're constantly going through these mental peaks and valleys. 629 01:09:24,633.551174 --> 01:09:32,543.552174 Try and stay as even and calm as you can because it just makes it easier to get out of those valleys and make them last as short as possible. 630 01:09:33,463.552174 --> 01:09:35,683.552174 Hydration, breathing. 631 01:09:36,443.552174 --> 01:09:49,193.552174 All those things will help you reach your potential and then in terms of strategy in a very general sense, my, my approach was always keep the course. 632 01:09:49,663.552174 --> 01:09:53,533.552174 As short as possible, it's already long enough. 633 01:09:53,783.552174 --> 01:09:55,153.551174 Don't make it any longer. 634 01:09:56,383.552174 --> 01:10:02,213.552174 Meaning don't go 2 miles north so that you can have a more direct. 635 01:10:03,143.552174 --> 01:10:13,188.552174 Downwind and hopefully accelerate in the last few miles, right? Some people buy into that and there's some legitimate reasoning to it. 636 01:10:13,888.552174 --> 01:10:16,998.552174 Just for me personally, the course is long enough. 637 01:10:16,998.552174 --> 01:10:19,138.552174 I always like to keep it as short as possible. 638 01:10:19,648.552174 --> 01:10:23,358.551174 So in broad strokes, that's, would be my advice. 639 01:10:24,268.550174 --> 01:10:25,408.550174 That's excellent advice. 640 01:10:26,488.551174 --> 01:10:27,128.551174 Appreciate that. 641 01:10:27,458.551174 --> 01:10:34,668.550174 For breathing I tried to time my breathing with my strokes, trying to inhale on the recovery and so on. 642 01:10:34,938.551174 --> 01:10:45,138.551174 Can you give a little bit of pointers? Like, how do you breathe? Do you use mouth breathing, nose breathing? How, like, how, what's your breathing rhythm and so on? Yeah, I'm just curious on that. 643 01:10:45,768.551174 --> 01:10:48,98.551174 Yes exactly what you just said. 644 01:10:48,608.551174 --> 01:11:10,338.551174 Breathe with your stroke because that will create rhythm, if you, if, and I know in a downwind situation, it's so unrhythmical because you're constantly spiking or declining in terms of effort output, but there's an internal timing and rhythm that you can create, even with that variability. 645 01:11:11,248.551174 --> 01:11:14,88.551174 And breathing is the key to finding that. 646 01:11:15,38.551174 --> 01:11:24,798.550174 So breathing with your stroke, ideally your heart rate's low enough that you can breathe through your nose and utilize that technique. 647 01:11:25,8.551174 --> 01:11:28,508.551174 But there's times where you might spike a bit. 648 01:11:28,648.550174 --> 01:11:32,608.552174 You just chased a big one, but it paid off. 649 01:11:32,628.550174 --> 01:11:36,708.550174 But now cardiovascular, you're deprived. 650 01:11:36,728.551174 --> 01:11:39,508.551174 So you need to get as much oxygen in as you can. 651 01:11:39,848.551174 --> 01:11:43,58.550174 And I would go to the mouth breathing to try and accommodate. 652 01:11:43,773.551174 --> 01:12:05,233.551174 A quicker turnover in oxygen flow, but as soon as I could get back to that calm nose breathing or as much as I could, but yeah, very much breathing to your stroke when you're on a glide and it's a good one and it doesn't have to be a fast one, but if you're gliding faster than you can paddle. 653 01:12:05,668.551174 --> 01:12:21,428.550174 And there's, you're not going to be able to get over the next bump, relax, take a couple of deep breaths, big nose breathe, start low, fill up your lungs, exhale, all that tension, let it go. 654 01:12:21,458.551174 --> 01:12:37,798.549674 And if you can get two or three of those in, and maybe pull your shoulders back and a couple of shoulder rolls where you really open up your chest, oh boy, that can really help reset you to go into attack mode or efficiency mode on the spot real quick. 655 01:12:38,548.550674 --> 01:12:41,228.550674 Yeah, that's a great, that's great advice. 656 01:12:41,228.550674 --> 01:12:54,728.550674 Yeah, just, it's such a, it's such a start and stop to it when you're catching bumps, it's like sometimes you have to put out a lot of energy and then you do need to have that time to recover and rest a little bit in between to have energy for the next time. 657 01:12:55,358.549674 --> 01:12:58,328.449674 So what about nutrition? Like what do you use to Nutrition. 658 01:12:59,118.549674 --> 01:13:09,668.549674 How do you take in your calories? Do you try to mix it in with your hydration? Or do you eat? Or what do you use for or what did you use in the past? I just had those little gel packs. 659 01:13:09,928.549674 --> 01:13:13,658.549674 And as my career went along, I utilized them less and less. 660 01:13:14,928.549674 --> 01:13:15,658.549674 It was strange. 661 01:13:15,658.549674 --> 01:13:17,548.549674 Early on, I'd use the gels. 662 01:13:17,558.549674 --> 01:13:20,638.549674 I had all the fancy mixes for my drinks. 663 01:13:21,208.549674 --> 01:13:40,738.548674 And I just got more simple and more simple as time went on and at the last few races, including the one I won in 11 or 12 or whatever it was I would always have a set of bottles that contain 50 50 Gatorade and water and a set of bottles that contain just water. 664 01:13:42,58.548674 --> 01:13:45,908.548674 And I never knew exactly which one I would want. 665 01:13:45,958.548674 --> 01:13:48,328.548674 I'd carry one of both with me. 666 01:13:49,393.548674 --> 01:13:56,943.548674 And I would let what my body was telling me dictate if I needed a bit of sugar in my drink or pure water was it. 667 01:13:57,693.548674 --> 01:14:02,553.548674 And it was very seldom was the same from race to race. 668 01:14:03,903.548674 --> 01:14:07,253.548674 But there were times where all I wanted was water. 669 01:14:07,333.547674 --> 01:14:08,883.548674 I didn't want that sugar. 670 01:14:08,883.548674 --> 01:14:10,423.548674 I didn't want anything in it. 671 01:14:10,753.548674 --> 01:14:13,143.548674 And just pure water was boom, perfect. 672 01:14:13,763.548674 --> 01:14:15,83.548674 And it would keep me good. 673 01:14:15,123.548674 --> 01:14:17,423.548674 And then there were other times where it was like, no, I. 674 01:14:17,903.548674 --> 01:14:23,293.548674 I need that little hit of sugar or, the straight Gatorade was too sugary. 675 01:14:23,703.548674 --> 01:14:26,143.548674 I, it would do more harm than good. 676 01:14:26,613.548674 --> 01:14:32,613.448674 But I found that 50 50 Gatorade water mix was adequate for me when I felt like I needed it. 677 01:14:33,33.447674 --> 01:14:38,843.449174 So I would let the moment dictate what I wanted. 678 01:14:39,563.449174 --> 01:14:41,613.449174 And just go with what my body was telling me. 679 01:14:42,483.449174 --> 01:14:42,833.449174 Awesome. 680 01:14:43,213.449174 --> 01:14:43,913.449174 Those are good tips. 681 01:14:43,953.449174 --> 01:14:44,733.449174 Really appreciate that. 682 01:14:45,293.449174 --> 01:14:45,633.449174 Okay. 683 01:14:45,833.449174 --> 01:14:49,353.449174 I think you were very generous with your time. 684 01:14:49,413.449174 --> 01:15:08,568.349174 Do you have any any last words you want to share with the foiling community? Like any tips or suggestions or anything you want to share? Yeah, I want to share a quick experience of where I'm currently at with my foiling. 685 01:15:09,798.449174 --> 01:15:15,528.449174 With the advent of high aspect foils, they're so much faster. 686 01:15:15,528.449174 --> 01:15:16,818.449174 They're so much more efficient. 687 01:15:16,828.449174 --> 01:15:27,638.449174 They do so many things better, but they're not as much fun in my experience. 688 01:15:28,358.449174 --> 01:15:39,228.449174 I love the surfing aspect of downwinding and going with the flow and carving turns and literally finding the rhythm of the ocean. 689 01:15:39,888.449174 --> 01:15:45,948.449174 Turning your mind off and finding that, that true flow where it becomes natural. 690 01:15:47,58.449174 --> 01:15:53,328.449174 And I'm having a real tough time with the high aspects, learning how to turn them properly. 691 01:15:53,838.449174 --> 01:16:02,238.449174 They just, like I said, there's so many things that do well but turning and smoothness doesn't seem to be one of them. 692 01:16:02,988.449174 --> 01:16:41,478.449674 And so I'm in this place right now trying to figure out, do I want to, except a slower foil that surfs and allows me to have more fun and a bigger smile and find that flow where I can get out of my own way and almost reach a a state of Zen and just bliss? Or do I want to be more consciously active and involved and go much faster? And push my times and run with people that are faster, but not enjoy it as much. 693 01:16:43,38.449674 --> 01:16:51,738.449674 And I don't, I've heard a few other people say they're having the same experience, which makes me feel better, because it's really. 694 01:16:55,63.450674 --> 01:17:03,293.450674 Last year, everything seemed so perfect in terms of equipment, and now all these investments have come along, and I know they're better. 695 01:17:03,413.450674 --> 01:17:15,333.450674 On paper, 100%, undeniably, the foils are insane, but they're not equating to more fun, at least that's my experience. 696 01:17:16,743.449674 --> 01:17:20,903.450674 And so I'm in this really strange place right now, which I actually like. 697 01:17:21,13.450674 --> 01:17:24,873.450674 I like being uncomfortable and having to figure something out. 698 01:17:24,873.450674 --> 01:17:36,438.450674 And Because that's part of where I get a lot of joy from is decoding things and figuring out what my priorities are and what I want out of this and where I get my enjoyment. 699 01:17:37,218.450674 --> 01:17:40,638.450674 And so it's a fun process to go through on a very different level. 700 01:17:40,698.450674 --> 01:17:42,518.450674 It's not a design thing for me. 701 01:17:42,958.449674 --> 01:17:52,328.449674 It's just purely personal and skill and philosophy and all these components that equate to am I having fun or not. 702 01:17:53,358.450674 --> 01:17:54,88.449674 And so it's. 703 01:17:54,623.450674 --> 01:17:55,373.450674 Yeah, I love that. 704 01:17:55,803.450674 --> 01:18:01,663.450674 Do you have a similar experience, or have you heard anybody else going through that? I totally go through that. 705 01:18:01,663.450674 --> 01:18:11,593.451174 Like, when you're training for racing, it's all about speed, right? And especially when you're wing foiling, you're like, basically trying to pass over the bumps. 706 01:18:11,603.450174 --> 01:18:23,893.451674 You're not, you're trying to go faster than the bumps if you can, right? We're, it's not as much fun as being on a bump and riding a bump and just surfing it and having no pressure in your wing or whatever, so to me it's yeah is it. 707 01:18:24,363.451674 --> 01:18:42,953.451674 Am I doing this to have fun or am I doing it to go as fast as I possibly can, so Yeah, what it's like so racing I think does take away some of that the fun of it, right? So and is it you know, but basically isn't that why we're doing it? It's you know It's supposed to be fun, right? That's the whole point of it. 708 01:18:42,983.451674 --> 01:18:47,703.551674 So I agree and there's times where You know i'll time myself. 709 01:18:47,703.551674 --> 01:19:00,438.551674 I don't time my I time myself one every 20 runs Maybe I just don't like the pressure of the watch But when I try a new foil that I know is faster and it's really good conditions, it's like, all right, let's see if I can get a personal best today. 710 01:19:00,438.551674 --> 01:19:14,488.552174 So I'll start the watch, I'll do the run, pumping, grinding, yes, I feel fast, I get to the end, I push my watch, and maybe it's 30 seconds slower, maybe it's 10 seconds faster. 711 01:19:16,33.552174 --> 01:19:20,663.552174 I have to wait to see what the numbers say to determine if I had fun or not. 712 01:19:23,273.552174 --> 01:19:24,763.552174 Yeah, 100%. 713 01:19:24,763.552174 --> 01:19:25,513.552174 I hear you on that. 714 01:19:25,563.552174 --> 01:19:33,633.550674 And a lot of times it's just the conditions too, right? If you had a fast run it might be just that the tide wasn't or, the currents were going in your favor or whatever. 715 01:19:34,193.550674 --> 01:19:39,473.650674 But Yeah, and I think competing is fun, obviously, and challenging yourself and beating your own time. 716 01:19:39,683.650674 --> 01:19:41,243.650674 It's fun, and it's exciting. 717 01:19:41,823.650674 --> 01:19:46,603.650174 But yeah, it's not necessarily doesn't maximize the fun of the moment. 718 01:19:46,603.650174 --> 01:20:03,708.651174 And like you said, the flow being, just enjoying the Good the cold nature experience and being immersed in everything and being mindless or losing your not thinking about anything like that empty mind feeling where just in the moment that, that's what it's all about really. 719 01:20:03,758.651174 --> 01:20:08,478.650674 And sometimes, yeah, if you're too into competing and racing it's hard to find that place right now. 720 01:20:09,298.650674 --> 01:20:09,628.650674 Yeah. 721 01:20:10,258.651674 --> 01:20:14,518.651674 So I just wanted to share that with people, and maybe it's my age. 722 01:20:14,978.651674 --> 01:20:17,448.651674 I'm a lot further along in the whole process. 723 01:20:17,938.651674 --> 01:20:22,908.652674 Younger guys where you're trying to prove something and make a mark and build a reputation. 724 01:20:23,438.652674 --> 01:20:24,238.652174 I went through all that. 725 01:20:24,238.652174 --> 01:20:25,38.651674 I understand it. 726 01:20:25,638.715174 --> 01:20:30,928.715174 And it's justifiable and no problem with it, but yeah, I'm in a different stage now. 727 01:20:31,628.715174 --> 01:20:40,388.714174 Yeah, and it sounds like you used to have, basically you used to have all the time in the world to train and get in the water and have fun and you were sponsored and so on. 728 01:20:40,678.714174 --> 01:21:04,693.715174 Now you're on the other side of the coin where you're creating the gear for other people to have fun on basically, but like how do you manage your time and, you do you make time still to have fun and, or is it just like when you get in the water, are you just testing the equipment or do you feel like you still have time to actually really enjoy the water sports? So I did. 729 01:21:04,783.715174 --> 01:21:14,603.714174 I took yesterday off, but the day before I did a run and to give you an idea of where my current situation is, that was my second run in six weeks. 730 01:21:15,63.714174 --> 01:21:15,703.714174 Oh, wow. 731 01:21:16,233.714174 --> 01:21:20,613.714174 Just because I've been traveling and busy and when I got back trying to catch up with everything. 732 01:21:21,203.715174 --> 01:21:36,593.715174 And like everybody else, in reality you have responsibilities, you have jobs, you need things that you have to do so that you have time down the road to do runs, maybe five days out of a week. 733 01:21:36,813.715174 --> 01:21:40,173.716174 And I see that period coming up before too long. 734 01:21:41,603.716174 --> 01:21:42,643.716174 At least I hope it does. 735 01:21:43,463.716174 --> 01:21:43,893.716174 Because. 736 01:21:44,493.716174 --> 01:21:51,293.716174 Another aspect of this is, in being in the stage I'm in, is the mental health aspect. 737 01:21:52,313.716174 --> 01:21:59,683.716174 And just a few years ago, maybe before COVID, mental, shmental, whatever, I don't know what you're talking about. 738 01:22:00,853.715174 --> 01:22:02,673.716174 But now it's very much a real thing. 739 01:22:03,73.716174 --> 01:22:14,453.716174 And if I'm going to go through those periods where I go twice in six weeks, now I need to work on my mental aspect, keeping myself motivated. 740 01:22:15,93.716174 --> 01:22:15,763.716174 positive. 741 01:22:16,433.716174 --> 01:22:32,693.715174 And the best way to do that is to get in the water, right? And so sometimes you just have to carve out that time and prioritize it for mental health reasons, never mind the physical aspect or the fun of it, just to keep yourself right. 742 01:22:33,788.716174 --> 01:22:34,978.716174 You better go do a run. 743 01:22:35,578.716174 --> 01:22:47,108.715174 So I, there are times where I'll sacrifice getting boards done where if you got a board coming from me and it's taking a little longer I might be focused more on my mental health that week than getting your board done. 744 01:22:47,648.716174 --> 01:22:49,578.715174 But yeah, it's a real, it's a real thing now. 745 01:22:49,798.715174 --> 01:23:05,968.716174 And when I get very busy it's all, this whole lifestyle, if I was making millions of dollars and there was more pressure or whatever it was Maybe I'd have to set down the water sports activity, but I do all of this to live this lifestyle. 746 01:23:06,388.716174 --> 01:23:10,578.716174 And that lifestyle is heavily dependent upon getting in the water. 747 01:23:11,158.716174 --> 01:23:12,758.715174 That's what makes it all worthwhile. 748 01:23:12,928.716174 --> 01:23:23,948.716174 I highly recommend, when it's possible, because it's not always possible, but when you can, if you sacrifice just a little bit, go get that day, or that hour, or even half hour sometimes, is enough. 749 01:23:23,948.716174 --> 01:23:26,968.716174 And it's okay, the world's okay, it's not gonna end. 750 01:23:27,648.716174 --> 01:23:34,418.716174 I'll make it, just because you got in the water, where if you don't, you keep piling on, it's I got to do this and I got to do that. 751 01:23:36,618.716174 --> 01:23:41,628.716174 And it's a downward spiral, but if you can get in the water and just get a session, it's yeah, everything will be okay. 752 01:23:43,88.716174 --> 01:23:43,338.716174 Yeah. 753 01:23:43,348.716174 --> 01:23:44,48.716174 A hundred percent. 754 01:23:44,48.716174 --> 01:23:49,23.716174 And it's, I think important to Sometimes you remind ourselves why we're in this business too. 755 01:23:49,313.716174 --> 01:23:51,593.716174 Like the reason we got into the business, cause we love it. 756 01:23:51,613.716174 --> 01:23:57,463.716174 And, but if all you're doing is working then and you're not enjoying it, like what's the whole point in that, yeah. 757 01:23:57,593.716174 --> 01:24:04,343.716174 If you're just going to work, there's a lot of things you can do that will probably make you more money than at least, the board business at my level. 758 01:24:05,3.716174 --> 01:24:05,293.716174 Yeah. 759 01:24:06,813.716174 --> 01:24:07,203.716174 Awesome. 760 01:24:07,513.716174 --> 01:24:08,473.716174 Thanks so much, Dave. 761 01:24:08,523.716174 --> 01:24:10,453.716174 And then I guess now Austin. 762 01:24:11,118.717174 --> 01:24:15,638.717174 Your son is carrying on the torch, the next generation of watermen. 763 01:24:16,68.717174 --> 01:24:31,643.717174 Do you spend a lot of time doing stuff together, or is he just doing his own thing? He's doing his own thing, really, and that's okay, because I don't, I want him To come out from underneath my shadow, and I think he's doing that he's doing a good job of that. 764 01:24:32,313.717174 --> 01:24:41,133.717174 Every, every big wave situation, the foiling, that's not a derivative of me. 765 01:24:41,333.717174 --> 01:24:50,393.717174 That's him, chasing it himself, having the desire in his own right which I think will make him feel better about it. 766 01:24:50,933.717174 --> 01:24:57,683.717174 And ultimately probably achieve more success because it's coming from within him and his enjoyment of it. 767 01:24:58,343.717174 --> 01:25:10,273.717674 So I've stood down a little bit and not been there as much as you might think I am, but I love seeing it and I'm so proud of him and my, my, all my kids. 768 01:25:10,833.717674 --> 01:25:16,773.717674 My daughter has become a local entertainer and really carved out a nice little niche for herself. 769 01:25:17,383.717674 --> 01:25:21,923.717674 And she's killing it in the local entertainment scene as a singer and musician. 770 01:25:22,493.717674 --> 01:25:35,358.719674 I've got two younger sons that are heavily involved in sports and school and surfing and stand up and learning to foil and all the other things that I can share with them. 771 01:25:35,438.719674 --> 01:25:37,118.718674 I'm very fortunate in that sense. 772 01:25:38,38.719674 --> 01:25:38,578.719674 Awesome. 773 01:25:39,168.719674 --> 01:25:40,368.719674 Thank you so much, Dave. 774 01:25:40,458.719674 --> 01:25:45,778.719174 I wish you continued success and yeah, don't work too much and enjoy the ocean. 775 01:25:47,188.719174 --> 01:25:47,918.719174 Thanks, Robert. 776 01:25:47,938.719174 --> 01:25:49,165.919174 Great talking with you. 777 01:25:49,165.919174 --> 01:25:52,638.619174 so much for watching this Blue Planet show with Dave Kalama. 778 01:25:53,248.719174 --> 01:25:55,948.719174 Some of the tips he gave me were really helpful. 779 01:25:55,978.719174 --> 01:25:59,368.719174 This is actually now a week later after the Molokai to Oahu race. 780 01:25:59,648.719174 --> 01:26:08,918.717174 So I can say his tips really helped me when I was struggling in the channel last Sunday, about 10 miles off Oahu. 781 01:26:08,948.717174 --> 01:26:11,778.717174 I remember some of his words, the deep breathing. 782 01:26:11,808.718174 --> 01:26:15,358.718174 I just made sure I got a lot of good deep breaths. 783 01:26:15,868.718174 --> 01:26:20,248.718174 And just, that kept me going the nutrition tips, drinking, eating. 784 01:26:20,678.718174 --> 01:26:34,768.718174 And then also just relaxing and bringing back my shoulders getting a little bit of rest in between All those things really helped me out and i'm happy to report that I won the first place overall in the men's stock division So i'm super stoked about that. 785 01:26:34,768.718174 --> 01:26:45,358.718174 I've never won a division overall in the mohawk race and it's my 13th channel crossing so after 13 times I finally won there wasn't a lot of pros in the race. 786 01:26:45,368.718174 --> 01:26:59,278.718174 So I wasn't super competitive, but I finished third standard paddleboard overall And first place in the men's stock division, which was my best result ever in the overall standings Not my best time, but it was a super tough channel. 787 01:26:59,638.718174 --> 01:27:14,118.720174 It was really rough off, to end off port lock so it was a struggle It was hard work, but I made it and I have to say thanks dave for your great tips So I hope you enjoyed this show Please make sure to give it a thumbs up. 788 01:27:14,148.720174 --> 01:27:21,673.720174 Make sure to subscribe to the blue planet surf youtube channel Keep coming out with more interviews thanks again, and we'll see you on the water. 789 01:27:21,823.720174 --> 01:27:22,323.720174 Aloha.