Organisations that work with children have a responsibility to keep them safe from harm and abuse as described in their duty of care and in the NSW Child Safe Standards. This episode will explore this topic further with guest speakers from the ECEC sector.
About this episode
Staff in ECEC services are managing risks everyday as part of their daily work. Risks can be described as the likelihood and potential impact of harm resulting from exposure to a hazard. It is not always possible to completely eliminate every risk, and staff need to be attuned to how to best minimise or respond to risks of harm to children. This is particularly important when considering risks that may lead to the harm or abuse of children. The first part of this episode looks at the people involved in setting a child safe, risk aware contexts, and how organisations can lower risks involved in hiring people to work with children.
About our speakers
Pauline O’Kane is the CEO of Network of Community Activities, and brought extensive experience in play movement from the UK to advocate for children and educators in out of hours contexts in Australia. Network is the only training provider specifically dedicated to OOSH. Their professional development programs are meticulously crafted by experts in the field and include modules on risk, leadership courses, child protection, active supervision and behaviour management, as well as personalised professional learning for your organisation (link below).
Kerrie Maguire is a professional learning and development specialist at Community Early Learning Australia (CELA) with more than two decades of experience in children’s services and a passion for supporting educators. CELA is the voice for Australia’s early education and care sector and has successfully supported and advocated for ECEC services for nearly 50 years. CELA provides a wealth of training for educators and leaders available at the link below.
Louise Doolin worked at the NSW Early Childhood Education and Care Regulatory Authority as an Authorised Officer, specialising in the Family Day Care context. The Regulatory Authority’s primary goals are to raise quality and drive continuous improvement in the ECEC sector, ensure the safety, health and wellbeing of children attending ECEC services, and improve educational and developmental outcomes of children attending ECEC services.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Module 5 eLearning 'Hiring and Managing Child Safe Staff' - https://ocg.nsw.gov.au/training-and-resources/elearning
Be You Mental Health Support for Educators - https://beyou.edu.au/
CELA training - https://www.cela.org.au/training
Network of Community Activities professional learning - https://networkofcommunityactivities.org.au/what-we-do/professional-development/
Lundy participation model -
(00:29):
1My guest today, Louise Doolan from the regulatory authority who's covering family daycare context. Welcome.
2Good morning.
1I've also got Pauline O'Kane from the network of Community Activities who's covering out of school hours. Contacts. Welcome, Polly.
3Hello, Katie. I'm really excited to be here.
1Thank you. Thank you. And I've also got Karen McGuire from Community Early Learning Australia, who's representing Long Daycare and the preschool context. Welcome, Carrie.
(00:56):
4Thanks, Katie. Great to be here.
1So today we've come together to talk about managing risks in XY context, both physical meaning environmental and personal risk. So Louise, I'm going to come to you first from an ECAC perspective. What do we want organizations to be doing in general when it comes to managing risks?
2I think that's a really great question to start with. And I think fundamentally it comes back to, our services being able to define the word. What is a risk? I think it's really important that they collaborate together, understand. It's a small a little word with little letters, but it's got such a big meaning behind it and the importance of working collaboratively across the service to respond to risk and communicate that to one another.
(01:39):
2Looking at the importance of being a leader in establishing a child safe culture within your ECS service, and where staff feel confident in raising concerns and knowing their concerns. That will be addressed around risk. And I guess ultimately, risk management, is not just a conflict exercise anymore. It's really about ongoing reviewing regularly, risk assessments and introducing those new forms of legislation and policies and practices that support while we have, risk in place.
(02:14):
1Yeah. That's right. And I'm really excited that you said communicating there, because actually, information sharing is a huge part of risk management in early childhood context.
2Yeah, I agree with you. Without communicating between each other and the people that we work with, then there's really no benefit for the children or for the families that we have in the care every day. We know that there's lots of resources and information from the regulatory authority, in practice, but it really comes back to having those communication, conversations between each other and understanding where our places.
(02:47):
1Absolutely. So let's start at the top. Then when we're talking about risk, we often refer to risk aware cultures, cultures and leaders in context that are aware of risks and do their utmost to identify and mitigate them. So when we're talking about child safe cultures in reference to risk, what does that look like? How does a strong leadership and child safe culture contribute to risk management?
(03:11):
3Okay. I but first of all, I'd like to thank all our great leaders for the work that they do in this space. They I've met leaders are extraordinary leaders, and they're really great in this space. And I would say that this cannot be overstated how important good leadership is. And we often underestimate that because they, establish the culture that prioritizes children.
(03:42):
3So they make children the central points of their organization. And I believe that that's essential for effective leadership. Leaders in organization emphasize this importance of being knowledgeable about child safe so that they can educate their educators that this is our top priority. They must be able to affirm their commitment to creating a child safe culture. So when I come out to organizations, I can see it from the minute I walk into the environment.
(04:16):
3It's all over their environment. It's the way educators communicate with children. It's the way they respond to children. It's the way that leader listens to educators, makes them feel valued. I've been at the ends of sessions where leaders have actually really shown gratitudes and appreciated their educators, so that means they come back to work. The next day ensues, and passionate about the work that they do.
(04:46):
3So but a child safe culture is about all staff members and the way they think and act about children and having those robust conversations where every voice is heard and every voice matters, and also having that strong culture of respecting children's viewpoints. And if you set that up as a leader, you're on the right path for creating the child safe culture.
(05:18):
4I'm going to add further to that. Thanks, Pauline. And I think what's also really important in relation to leadership, specifically when we're work talking about our birth to five year olds, leaders need to have courage. There needs to be a certain amount of courage for leaders to be able to lead their teams. And that means calling things out, calling out behaviors that are unethical, calling out behaviors that are potentially, you know, illegal.
(05:42):
4Understanding reportable conduct. And I think when we start talking about a culture, I think one of the things that I'm always very interested in is that the way that we operate. So most of us think we make very cognitive decisions. But the majority of decisions we actually make are actually emotionally driven decisions, and they're based on our values, beliefs and attitudes.
(06:04):
4So that culture is a collective understanding. So I call it working with the rights framed approach. And as Pauline talked about, it's a child centered approach. And sometimes when we do have, situations which have very much triggered our own emotional, values, our beliefs and our attitudes, it becomes a very much an adult focus. And I think what's really important is to come back.
(06:31):
4All we have to do is ask the question of ourselves, but what is it like for that child? And I think when you come back to that child centered approach, I think it becomes clear you have clarity about what your actions should be. And one of the other things that I think is, and Pauline highlighted, this is competency, that people look to leaders to be competent.
(06:55):
4So leaders need to have a strong understanding of their legal frameworks. They also need to have a strong understanding of their service philosophy and the vision of the service. So really being able to guide their educators. The first thing I often talk to service leaders about is, well, let's first go to the legal framework, what we actually have to do.
4And then we go to in that child focused, child rights framed approach, what's the next thing? So if we don't have a legal framework that's going to guide us, then we actually have to consider the best interests of the child and the child's rights within that situation. And we can never lose sight of that. So effective leaders never lose sight of that.
(07:34):
4And I think what's really important to understand is that everybody's a leader when it comes to child safety.
1So when it comes to a child safety context, what do we really mean by risk?
3Yeah. So, I think risk has changed a lot in contemporary society. And, what I don't want people to go away and be is totally risk adverse. Okay? It's about being measured. When we look at risk and I haven't met an educator that doesn't work in that risk assessment way on a continuous basis. So there's no right or wrong way of doing that.
(08:15):
3We can do our risk assessments. And that's the documentation that help us all have a conversation about risk. But when we're actually at and we're supervising children and we're working with children, we're constantly risk assessing. And what we don't want to do is take away every risk from children so they can't navigate the world and make appropriate decisions.
(08:41):
3We also want to involve children in risk assessments so that they can take appropriate risks to their level. And I love the way, primary school aged children are able to do this. They're in a stage of development where they testing things out, and they want to be in that safe and secure environment where educators allow them to do that.
(09:05):
3And in this space, this is, I don't know whether people have heard about Doctor Laura Lindsay, but she's done a really great participation model, and it focuses on article 12. But her model suggests considering full steps. Space children must be given the opportunity to express their views, voice children work with adults who allows them to express their views, and they can facilitate those conversations.
(09:41):
3Then there's the audience part of it. If I'm a child telling you something, and it's particularly important in this space that therefore use all the conversation that I'm sharing with you is listen. So and then the fourth part of it is influence, that if a child shares something with me, that view, that conversation should be acted on as appropriate.
(10:09):
3And I think I really encourage services to use that Laura Lindsay model of participation, because I think it really helps us work in, as Kerry saying that rights based approach to underpinning our work with children. And that cannot be overstated, because if you work in that way, you're really creating the foundations of a child safe culture.
(10:38):
4I think it's interesting and I love the participation model. Thanks, Pauline. So I'm going to come back to the birth to five year olds. And this is a conversation I think is really important. And it leads back to risk. So we have built in mechanisms within the regulations. So we have you know sleep and rest risk assessments. We have emergency and evacuation risk assessments.
4We have excursion risk assessments. And I think we we get very focused on that. And that's not saying that that's not important. But then we actually have regulation 84 where we talk about awareness of child protection law. And I think we have to come into risk is risk that can be external. So educators from birth to 12 understanding their responsibility as mandatory reporters, but then also to the risk to children's, not only their physical safety but also their emotional and psychological safety.
(11:29):
4So when we start thinking about risk in that holistic perspective, the things that potentially can cause risk from the physical environment, we also need to think about the human element when we start talking about risk. And one of the lesser known, aspects of this is reportable conduct. And what actually constitutes reportable conduct. Now, the office of the Children Children's Guardian has really great fact sheets that can be used by leaders to start talking about what is reportable, what's an acceptable behavior, what's an unacceptable behavior.
(12:03):
4So if we look at child protection, it's also an external risk that's happening outside of the service. But increasingly we are coming across higher levels of inappropriate discipline of children where risk and harm is actually occurring within the service. And for me, I find that, distressing because this is a this all services I call it the the landing strip.
(12:30):
4So we might have children that have got really great lives. And they need, they have the right to be safe in those spaces. But what about children who aren't safe outside of that service? There needs to be one place where they walk into and they know that they are going to be safe, safe from psychological, emotional and physical harm because potentially that's already happening.
(12:53):
4So broadening the context of risk. And as I said, there's a built in, risk assessment mechanisms within the regulations that we're required to follow. And I think there's other conversations to start having around those child safety standards about what constitutes risk to children's, you know, psychological and emotional safety as well as the physical.
(13:14):
1I just want to go back to what you mentioned previously about a child centered approach to risk. And I'm wondering if you could give us a bit more insight into how that kind of approach, how those kind of strategies can really assist when it comes to lowering personnel risks, like inappropriate behavior from staff.
4Okay. So one of the interesting things that, we have come across that our organization, we do a lot of training, we do, we have child protection training. And we, we talk a lot to to educators and service leaders. And one of the things that we've found is that without that child centered approach. So it could be and we're going to talk about this a little bit later in the podcast, Conflicts of Interest, where educators are aware that potentially the service leader is causing harm to children, but are afraid or feel intimidated to be able to notify.
(14:04):
4And there's many different pathways that we can talk about that in relation to notifying. But the problem is that the conversation never comes back to. But what about the rights of that child? What is it like for that child who has experienced that harm from a leader that should be supporting child safety within the organization? So I think it's about supporting whistleblowers and actually building competency for them.
(14:33):
4So if my go to person is the service later, well, what are the other pathways that I can take to ensure that this child is protected within our service and organization? And that's where we step into being very strong advocates for children.
1Right. And then that comes back to having a child safe culture within your organization. Absolutely. Yeah.
(14:54):
2I think some really great points you've brought up this morning as well, from the family daycare, space in the sector, from a regulatory authority, we have authorized officers that go into these spaces, and we all know that, there's one educator with children in chaos. And so it is very isolating for our educators, but we've seen a real pattern and change of how, I guess, educators are identifying, risking their own homes.
(15:19):
2We've obviously got the ones that we are all aware of, making sure the kitchen's safe and making sure that the pool gates are closed. But I guess we're seeing more and more that risk is identified, and it's not being removed from children, so they can be able to have a voice within that program. And there is a bit of risky play, but the necessary for those children to have a space and be able to talk to that practice is what we're saying more about, educators are becoming more confident in understanding their obligations.
(15:48):
2We are seeing that across the sector, and then we go in as a regulatory authority, we're often giving scenarios about child protection series. Or if they were concerned about what they saw in a space, what would they do? Rather than having to go to a leader or in what you were saying, having to wait to talk to someone or have those conversations.
(16:08):
2So it's a really great space that we can see, is being proactive in the family daycare sector space. And we're seeing a lot of our service providers on board with a lot of these new, child protection safe standard policies that are coming out. And it's a really great place to see that happening because they are on their own.
2These educators.
3Sometimes I think Kerry has raised some really important points. I think physical risk everybody gets. But it's an emotional and psychological risk. And if you witness it, I don't think we talk about whistleblowers in our sector. I don't think that's necessarily a term that's used very easily. I think some people get it in other sectors. It is very used like in a health context.
(16:57):
3But I do think it's something that we do need to talk more about because you have to be a really brave educator that has the guts to speak up about your colleague, your leader, when you are concerns about their behavior. And it often is around that psychological. It is about the emotional trauma that they cause children. It is about the way they often speak to children.
(17:26):
3And, you know, it goes back to that. This is complex work, and we often underestimate and devalue it. And that's why we need strong leaders that can come in and really set that tone for this is a place that no come visitation is not a valued conversation, but it's the same as, I don't know, about 10 or 15 years ago, we got a lot of, conversations happening around grooming behavior, which wasn't such a known concept or a well understood concept.
(18:05):
3And I think, like speaking out and speaking up when you are witnessing concerning behavior takes a lot of bravery, and there needs to be a lot more conversations about how people can do that, and a lot more knowledge about where they can do who are their sounding boards. And I think network for our sector is that sounding board, because we get those calls as seal of words, because it's very different for an educator to speak to a government department when they've initially got these concerns that they want to offload.
(18:47):
3And we tend to be those sounding boards that then can navigate where you go next.
1Yeah, absolutely. Have you seen in your visits, in your experience, have you seen some really great strategies that have been put in place by leadership to, assist educators when it comes to reporting to make them feel that little bit more comfortable?
3Yeah. One of the things I, have seen a really increase is that they make it an everyday conversation. So in our sector, they tend to have the little huddles or the ten minute chats before we all start work. And it's the leaders say, okay, you've got any concerns. You can actually we might not be able to totally unpack it, but you might have noticed something about a child or a behavior or something that happened the previous day.
(19:37):
3And you can raise that. And I think, also team meetings now have really good, segments where they're actually talking about child safe. So they make it a whole of organization conversation. So it's not just little leads as huddles off in the corner talking about this. This is an everyday conversation. This is our bread and butter conversations.
(20:04):
2And we've also seen in the family daycare space is the, provider that has a morning WhatsApp message to her educators and the one of the very first little messages that we see regularly at her educators is around child protection. And just some tips and tricks to look for and the day and there's always give me a call if you want to have a chat if you're unsure.
(20:26):
2So it's about reaffirming that there is someone that may not be physically there for a family day care educators, but they can definitely respond to. So it's about those practices changing, which is what we want to see, out in the sector. And it's a really great opportunity for our educators to have a voice and understand their professional identity when it comes to their obligations.
1I love that you've got that practical application within that conversation as well. It's not just words, it's not just platitudes. It's actually here's some actions that you can take that's brilliant. I really like that.
(20:55):
4So one of the things, and I'm going to go back to what Louise said about scenario based with family daycare educators and back to Pauline, the incredible complexity of what educators are doing in their daily work. And one of what I'm really good strategy is the manager reporters guide tool, the emoji. And it's so unutilized and it's a really great tool.
(21:16):
4So educators go, oh, something has to be really significant for me to use that. So coming back into those team meetings and using scenarios and just getting comfortable with using the image, it's not a notification to the Department of Communities and Justice. It's a decision tree. So it can it enables you to be able to voice your concerns.
(21:38):
4It's a really good tool for discussion. But what it also does, it can identify where things might be changing for that child. So you can actually track that. But coming back to those scenarios, feeling comfortable with the feeling comfortable having the conversation and the discussion. So it's not sitting in isolation that there's something that's really got us concerned.
(21:59):
4It should just be part of that everyday discussion is what Pauline in the ways are saying.
1Yeah, absolutely. Louise, I want to come back to you very quickly just before we move on when we're talking about family daycare. You mentioned that often educators are on their own. It's, you know, one of the standard, identifiers of family daycare. Have you seen any strategies along your visits and experience? Where service providers are supporting, staff compliance with policies and procedures to make sure they're maintaining acceptable standards of behavior?
(22:33):
2That's a really great question. And in short, yes, we're seeing some really great practices and examples when we're out in the field, visiting our educators. And we're actually, now seeing educators showing us as the regulatory authority. And we go out into those spaces. So we've got the standard checklists that we see out and about in all our services types.
(22:53):
2But we're also seeing that, educators are grouping together from different organizations and sectors, not just from family daycares from their local daycares, community organizations. And they're really having conversations, across different types of, social media platforms and asking each other questions about, something that they may have seen in the space that they just want some help on rather than going straight to their providers, and then they might turn around after that and think it's important enough to go there.
(23:24):
2I guess we're also seeing that a lot of our educators, grouping together culturally, which is really great to see. We know that there's different cultural standards that we're seeing in our space, and that's something that we're working on as a regulator as well, because, the blanket rule for child safety doesn't change, when it comes to cultural awareness and cultural competency.
(23:47):
2And so what we're seeing is the collaboration is definitely there for our educators and that they are unpacking it. The conversations are happening, which is a great place to start.
1Okay, that's a really great segue to, I guess, dig into the type stuff that we're working in early is context here. So let's talk a little bit about recruitment. What are some of the key features of a robust and child safe recruitment process that you guys have seen, processes that services have in place, and how were they set up to identify risks?
(24:19):
3One is this fantastic things that I've seen services do in, in that size of schools context is that they involve children. So children start to talk about what makes a good educator, what skills they even have, the ability to talk about, oh, so-and-so's coulda been at doors. We may be needs someone that's a bit more artistic, or someone that can do the storytelling or the drama or whatever.
(24:49):
3And I think children have an innate, capability and competency assassin at all that they feel comfortable around. So I think if you start your recruitment process by listening to children, you start to build up, who is it that we want in this service and in that to school our services in New South Wales, we don't actually have any mandated qualifications and there's always pluses and minuses to that.
(25:22):
3But when I sit in my middle ground, what is rich about that is the people that we can involve in our sector that bring a diverse range of skills. So the astronomy is the artist, engineer set to all this great work with children. But then we need to make them competent in the understanding what a child safe culture looks like, and the mandatory reporting and knowing all the regulations and again, that goes back to your good leader.
(26:00):
3Interview process. Actually, I have sat on a lot of interview panels and there straight away there can be quite obvious red flags. And I think cut lights really point that out because we are in a critical workforce shortage. So it's actually easy to jump into the realm that we just need an educator on the ground. But what you've got to be mindful of is that once you take that person on board, they've got to be the right person to work with children, and there should be no compromises around that.
(26:40):
3Even in a workforce crisis. I have said to services, reduce numbers rather than take on someone that might not be suitable. Okay. And when I talk about red flags, it's people able and unable to easily articulate their career journey. And, you know, they're a bit patchy. You know, everyone's happy to hear that someone's gone off traveling around the world, but you should be able to talk about that.
(27:12):
3I took a year out and this is what I was doing. And following up on referees, actually having people that have actually witnessed and managed their work in a child context, and if they're not able to supply that, what is the rationale if they're a new educator and they might not have worked in this space, it might be someone in their school that can provide them with that reference.
(27:40):
3Because they've got to know them really well as an individual.
2I just an example that we've seen from our family daycare space is some of our providers have spoken to us about, how they've got a really clear upfront service, commitment to child safety when they've got a job. Advert, advertisement. And in the interview process, which is bring that conversation to the forefront, which is something that we're seeing, which is really great to see in the sector and to see in the space, because as we've all said, daycare educators are on their own a lot.
(28:10):
2And so we're trusting them to be the sole educators of these children on their own. So it's really great to see that commitment from that space.
4I'll just come back to what Pauline said. I love the, the whole idea of children having that voice and talking about, you know, what's what makes a really great educator. But if I come into the early childhood space of birth to five year olds where there are qualifications, one of the things which is really interesting that we're not checking qualifications.
(28:39):
4So you actually need to check the qualification that's really, really, really important. On our website we've actually got a mechanism. You can actually do that. And you can also do that through a secure. And the other one is Pauline alluded to. It is the reference checks or the reference checks. If someone's really hard to contact, don't move forward because they're really, really hard to contact.
4You need to be able to identify what's been that previous work experience and their performance. And then if you're providing a reference, you for your reference, be honest. Be honest about that particular candidate's skills, competencies and any red flags that you may have had. And sometimes when we provide the the reference or the way we sort of, you know, we sort of embellish people's skills or competencies, we really need to be honest when we're actually providing those in the other direction as well.
(29:32):
4So that becomes really, really important. And approve providers, those service providers remember they are the employer. So they absolutely need to have some very strong recruitment processes. And if they're unsure, they may need to seek external H.R support in relation to that. Yeah.
3And can I just pick on up on your point. Because when we're in a workforce crisis, Kerry we use H.R. Support a long. And when it comes to references and I've had to advise a number of services, they actually need to have the referee checks on file because they need to know who the H.R company. I'm not adverse to people using external resources if they need to, but it has concern me that a number of organizations haven't been exposed to that referee check.
(30:28):
3And the other thing that I really encourage services to do as we move into the online space, people are less likely to voice concerns when they do a written referee check. Whereas if you pick up the phone and say, I really just want to check, about this person that's applied for a position, you can talk through the position, you can talk about their suitability, and they are more likely to read like anything.
(30:58):
3And then it's up to the organization to say, do we follow that up with the can today and explore it and get their viewpoint on it? But at least you won't go in in wide eyed and knowing the candidate a bit better and their suitability to work with children.
1We've mentioned red flags a little bit, and we talked about a couple of red flags that you might see in an interview. Let's, dig into that a little bit more. What are some other red flags that might raise concerns, raise eyebrows and I guess ensure for that, candidate won't be selected.
(31:34):
4What do I find just really interesting is that as far as candidates go and this has been raised, a like a little while ago. So social media is, you know, so heavily utilized. And so sometimes people look at candidates and go, what is on their socials, you know, what do where do they align their visions and values?
4And, our no. One service, they recognize that an educator was very much on the far right. And it didn't align to vision and values. So those kinds of conversations, when we've actually got an employee. So starting to rethink about, you know, where does that what does that profile start looking like. So LinkedIn, you know, what's been the professional, you know, career pathway of that particular candidate.
(32:18):
4Where have they actually been. If there's been a lot of moving around, you know, six months, 12 months, six months, 12 months, moving interstate, moving around the state, I think they're definite red flags. And, there could be some very valid reasons why that's happened, but I think that needs to be raised in the in the interview process.
(32:39):
2And I think, lastly, as well, we all are aware that, you know, the our national or international regulations underpin the work that we do in our sector. And it's really important that our candidates know what those two documents are and are able to talk to some practices, some aware of that, without those fundamental awareness. And that's a little bit of a red flag that we see in this space as well, because that's a living, breathing document that we go out and regulate, daily in our sector.
(33:06):
2And we expect educators as well as service providers to be understanding of their requirements, as well. So that's another red flag.
3Yeah. The other thing is, I think if you are a really great employer, you don't set people up to fail when they're actually applying for jobs in this space. So you're really clear on what the role is. As we said earlier about in your advertisement, you're saying that this is a working with children check applicable job. You're saying that we are child safe organization.
(33:44):
3You are upfront about the level of responsibility. You talk about addressing the criteria that may be addressed, says the laws and regs. So even if they're not totally up to speed it, they can actually do their research. And I've interviewed some great people that have said, oh my God, I had to look on a C quiz website. I've looked at the regulator's website, I looked at your website, and you know that they're going to be the educators that are really going to take go that extra mile in finding that stuff.
(34:21):
3They're not just going to say, that's not my responsibility. They're actually going to take on that responsibility to really take the role seriously and act as a professional in that role, no matter what their journey is.
1So before we move on, just quickly, I want to approach the subject of casual staff and volunteers in early education context. This is quite a big conversation within the sector. There's a lot of casual staff, a lot of very valuable, very passionate casual staff. How do services and leaders monitor, you know, who's going to be a good fit for that service?
(34:59):
1How do you keep a tag on who's going to go where? How do you make sure they know what they're doing? Because obviously you're not interviewing those casual staff. So what's the process there? What are some of the things set up to support services?
3Well, the first point I would make about that is it doesn't matter whether you're a casual or a volunteer, you go through the same process, okay. So you've got to have the same, same. And I think what works really well in our sector because because of the workforce crisis, you have to throw people in at the tent.
(35:37):
3However, what I say in the context of outside of school services is your outdoor environment is way more risky than your indoor environment. The indoor environment can be a bit of a controlled environment. So if you've got someone that has limited skills and knowledge, mentoring, you know, and putting them along with an educator, but that educator that is the mentor also has to be capable, competent, and, you know, excelling in good practice because, you know, there's that old phrase that you learn what you're taught.
(36:20):
3And if you don't, you know, if you put one of your educators that actually has picked up, you know, a little bit like driving, my kids are always saints. Me on mum, you do blah blah blah, but you don't look in your mirror because you are an accomplished driver and you pick up some of those bad, things.
3You want educators to excel in practice so that they can share. This is what we do in this organization. And this is the why being able to articulate the why. But it doesn't matter whether you are a volunteer, a student that comes on, one of the programs that high school does, you actually do a proper let's meet with the person, you do an induction and onboarding.
(37:07):
3And then if you can allow for that person to be mentored into the role, that can really retain staff.
4So let's think about agency staff. So it's the immediacy of that person turning up on the day. So the first thing is that really good induction process. We come back to that, that culture of child safety. What's the most important thing that that educator or that agency staff member needs to know? Because they can't know everything. And it doesn't mean that you're going to get this highly competent agency staff member that has a strong understanding of your service philosophy, your vision, and the way that you work.
(37:47):
4So if I go back to what Pauline saying, where abouts are we going to place this educator? So that means the leader needs to be calm because often that can be. I've turned up to work at someone's called in sick way down ratios. I'm going to have to get somebody in so that can that can be in a very heightened way.
4So when we communicate to the agency staff member, we're in a very heightened, state ourselves and we're not communicating effectively. So have that induction checklist there to go these are the things, the most important things that I need you to know. These are the routines of the day. All right. So what we're going to do is that we don't want that agency staff member in adverts and creating risk because they haven't had that initial.
(38:31):
4And it's going to be a quick induction. It's I think it's a little bit different to what Pauline said. We've got casual staff members that might be working two days a week or one day a week. The other thing I would say to that, where possible, where possible, is to build a relationship with your, recruitment agency so they get an understanding of who you are.
4So wherever they can, they can align that, cut that agency staff member to your service. So instead of this constant changeover of educators and we've just got to be mindful of that, I think for children, sense of safety and a sense of belonging, if we're using a lot of agency staff and they're changing consistently and continuously through the week, we really need to stop and really reflect on that and the impact of that on children.
(39:19):
1Yes. Very important. Let's, let's dig in a little bit more to inductions and mentoring and setting our staff off on the right foot. So, Louise, I might start with you. What does, what does the onboarding process look like in families? Okay.
2So we've worked with quite a few providers around this topic, and it's really great to see how proactive they are. We all know that fundamentally, they have to abide by the national laws and regulations, but also their service policies and procedures are a huge part of this for the sector. We know that, onboarding is all about unpacking those policies with our educators and understanding that they have, an obligation to comply with those policies and practices.
(40:03):
2And if they feel that it's not the right fit for them to have those honest conversations and unpack that together, we know that, there's a lot involved in risk when it comes to family day care for the educators. Take on themselves. And so that's a big topic that's spoken about individually with our providers. And when they start to employ educators and then as a regulator, our role is to go out to ensure that the educators have been supported into that position and that we can see it in practice, we can see it in their environment.
(40:34):
2We can have those conversations, and see, I guess, the formality of what the induction has look like. So under that regulation 116, we know there's risk assessments for the home and for the environment, but also that there's risk assessments in place so that children are protected, under the one educator that they have in place.
(40:54):
4As we go back to before we get to the processes. And induction is something that is not something that happens quickly. If I go back to how human brains learn, because I love this sort of stuff, I'm always going to come back to it. You know, it takes three months to learn something new, and you've got to repeat that new thing, 90 to 100 times.
(41:15):
4So if your induction process is only about educators treading water, they're going to leave pretty quickly. You're going to have a high turnover. So we one of those induction processes to build competency and confidence. So part of that process is now I come back to what Louise is saying, like highlighting the importance of specific areas. But you know reading it, doing it and then being tested, I have seen some really great induction processes where I get the information, I do it, it's observed and then I'm tested.
(41:48):
4So neurologically little bits of testing really help reinforce that information. And it could be little quizzes. I know larger organizations do have online where they will have induction processes. Now you complete this aspect. It might be around a policy and procedure and child protection child safety standards. And then they give it a little quiz. And we know that that is actually effective for learning.
(42:08):
4But I think it's got to be in a variety of ways. So if we think about how adults learn. So let's go into the adult learning space. We have different types of learners. So I could pick something up and read it but not understand it. But if you explain it to me and get me to explain it back to you, and then I put that into practice and you observe me doing it, and then there's a little test bit of testing at the end.
4I'm going to learn that much, retain that information a lot easier than if it's just read it, sign it. Now go away and do it. Because if that happens again, we go back to our own beliefs, values and attitudes. This is how I did it at my last service at work like that. So I'm not. That's my go to because that's that.
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4That's what I've learned. That's what I'm going to do. So I think that's really important. And the induction into the philosophy and the vision and the value of the service, and that's where you're going to see a misalignment. Maybe we're not the right place for you.
3Yeah. The other thing that I was going to pick up on that you were just explaining carry, is when you start a new job, you're full of the nervousness of starting a new job, but we tend to overload people with induction at that phase, and they're not really ready to receive the information. So I think in contemporary society we all like small, relevant bits of information.
(43:34):
3So like Kerry's talking about giving us time to put that into practice. Why didn't it work? I set up a game with children, but I didn't feel that I had, any connection or any understanding. And it might be that someone else can say, oh yeah, I forgot to tell you that day they would just return from camp.
(43:55):
3They just wanted to chill. It's nothing to do with you, but let's work together. On being able to go through that area that you're feeling less confident in. So I mean, we talk about three months. That's usually what the probation period is. And over the 90 days, you can actually do small bites of coming back and meeting with that person and exploring areas that they don't feel competent in because it is a hands on job, and sometimes you don't know what you don't know until you actually do it.
(44:31):
3So I love, Kerry's way of explaining that and testing people. We have a little test around this area. If people are stepping into the responsible person role, they can do the responsible person quiz. And that just gives like a little certificate. They have to get 100% right. But it is an open book test. But it actually just helps people to build up their knowledge.
(44:56):
4And I want to go back to what Pauline said. And we used to call when I was actually working at my service, we just called it Professional Supervision. And I'm really going to encourage services to do this because we just don't have time to do that. So if you want a return on this investment, this amazing, an amazing staff member, then you've got to invest.
(45:16):
4So the ten minutes check in at the end of the end of the day. And that was only ten minutes. And I found it so invaluable because it's like being a professional friend. At the end of the day. What were your successes? Where did you feel good? But what questions do you have and enabling educators to have that human side of it?
4Instead of it just being this is the process. And as Pauline said, there's just so much information you're going to get so overwhelmed. How do you actually be with children when all that's going on inside your head?
(45:46):
3A great way of doing this is when educators leave. The center director just puts up today and tomorrow, and they just have to put a quick comments about how they felt about today and what they're looking forward to tomorrow. And I just thought that was such a simple strategy today, tomorrow. And I've always loved the today, tomorrow programs for children.
(46:12):
3This is what we're doing today. Because if I don't go on Friday, I don't care what you doing on Friday. On Friday night, you know, our weekly programs are for adults to actually charter and measure and plan and program that for children. They live in the presence. So knowing what's going on today and I'm sort of interested in tomorrow.
(46:33):
3So having that today, tomorrow. But they do an inner educator point of view and as well as I think educators to take a lot home. And if you've really had a very difficult and challenging day, actually been able to leave that at the door and you sense it's our right to leads and might not be able to follow up thought that they might be able to say, do you want to come in ten minutes early tomorrow so that we can impact that?
(47:04):
3I don't want you to continuously go off not having a great time. And sometimes in this sector we go away not having a great day and nobody checks in on this. Yeah, it's a.
2Good point for that. We've seen in the family daycare space providers take initiative, on our social media platform with their educators, where at the end of the day, the educators put up a face. So the face may, you know, the typical smile. I'm okay right through to different colored faces. Yeah. And it's just, I guess, an opportunity for the approved providers or for fellow educators to reach out to whoever they may have put up, a face that maybe got you thinking, do they need some help or has there been a conversation of difficulty that's happened with that educator today?
(47:51):
2So it's really great that we're seeing that is coming, that's coming to light. But it's also being unpacked, unpacked in a safe environment for our educators who are on their own. And I don't have to take it back to their own families when they close that door. And quite often we have children in their homes still, you know, seven, eight, 9:00 at night.
2So they can't avoid that space. And so it doesn't it's not like you close the front door or, sorry, the service door, and you lock up and go home. It's it's really in their environment the whole time. So it's really great that we're seeing these sorts of initiatives from our providers.
(48:25):
1Thank you so much for listening to part one of Policy and Practice in Focus Identifying and Managing Risks in Early Childhood education and Care context. You can find the rest of the episodes in the series by going to the office of the Children's Guardian website, but also wherever you get your podcasts. All the resources mentioned in this episode can be found at the links in our show notes.
(48:48):
1This mini series was produced by the office of the Children's Guardian and funded by the New South Wales Department of Education.