May 12, 2024 • 53 mins
Please note, this episode covers content regarding disclosures of abuse that may be upsetting for some listeners. Please take care when listening to this episode and seek support if needed. Free confidential support services are listed below.
Reporting in an ECEC context can take many forms from noting breaches of a Code of Conduct to far more serious incidents. This episode looks at reporting considerations in early childhood settings, including obligations to the Reportable Conduct Scheme.
About this episode:
This episode is part of a short series produced by the Office of the Children's Guardian and funded by the NSW Department of Education, the NSW regulatory authority for early education and care as part of their Safety and Quality Practice program.
Simon chats to two education professionals and a representative from the OCG’s Reportable Conduct Directorate to discuss setting up a reporting culture within the early education and care sector, information on how and what to report and how organisations can ensure their reporting processes are child friendly.
About our speakers:
Vanessa Hextall, the National Child Safe Officer from a large outside school hours care service provider with services across Australia. Vanessa has 18 years experience in the early childhood education sector specialising in quality and compliance, and risk. Her experience with reportable conduct is to educate and support the organisations with the process and determine best practice within the service delivery.
Stephanie Menear, from the Office of the Children’s Guardian, is a Manager in the Investigations unit within the Reportable Conduct Directorate, with responsibility for its work with the early childhood education and care sector. She has a decade of experience working in child protection, with seven years’ experience providing guidance and support to the early childhood sector on reportable conduct matters.
Preeti Khural is the Director of Education at a long day care service in Sydney’s Hills District and has a bachelor of teaching degree. She has 20 years experience in early childhood education. Preeti strongly believes in continuous education and training for educators so that they are well-informed and have the skills and knowledge to keep children safe in early childhood settings.
This episode was recorded and edited on Gadigal land. The NSW Department of Education and the NSW Office of the Children’s Guardian recognise that the land we work and live on always was and always will be Aboriginal land, and we pay our respects to Elders past and present.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
About the Reportable Conduct Scheme - https://ocg.nsw.gov.au/organisations/reportable-conduct-scheme/how-scheme-works
Reportable Conduct Factsheet - Identifying Reportable Allegations - https://ocg.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2022-02/FS_RC_Identifying_reportable_allegations.pdf
Reportable Conduct forms - https://ocg.nsw.gov.au/organisations/reportable-conduct-scheme/reportable-conduct-notification-forms
Reportable Conduct Factsheet - Planning and Conducting an Investigation - https://ocg.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2022-02/fs_rc_planning_conducting_investigation.pdf
OCG (Reportable Conduct) eLearning - https://ocg.nsw.gov.au/training-and-resources/elearning
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
1Hello and welcome to this podcast from the office of the Children's Guardian. Funded by the New South Wales Department of Education under its Safety and Quality Practice program. Today we're going to be talking about reporting in an early education and care context. Reporting can take many forms, from minor breaches of policies and codes of conduct, through to things that are far more serious.
(00:26):
1We'll discuss when reports need to be made and who to, including mandatory reporting obligations. New South Wales Police and the Reportable Conduct Scheme. I'm particularly interested in what a child friendly reporting culture looks like in early education and out of school hours care services.
(00:48):
1My guests today are Vanessa Hextall, the national child safety officer and an Australia wide out of school hours care provider. Preeti Kiran, an experienced director of education at a long day care service in Sydney's Hills district. And Stephanie Minear, the manager of investigations within the Reportable Conduct Directorate at the office of the Children's Guardian. Reporting is incredibly complex and challenging.
(01:14):
1How do you instill that culture of the importance of reporting.
2In our organization? Something that we have come up with is our six R's. And what that means to us is that, it's it's the six hours around disclosure in response. And so what we look at is recognizing, reassuring and responding. And that's the first part of it. But then the second part of that is looking at, how we report, record and then reflect and take taking those opportunities to learn from past incidents to better our practices when it comes to the next one.
(01:53):
2And we do make mistakes, but if we can't understand the learnings from those we won't improve our practices for the next incidents that come in, particularly, making sure that our teams understand that it's okay to make mistakes. But the opportunity is in the learning from that, instilling that culture of, talking, talking about it, reflecting on what's happened and if we can, it is sometimes uncomfortable for our team, for the team to get together and talk about the incident that's occurred, because they know that somewhere along the line, they may have made a mistake or done something in the wrong step, but making sure that if we don't talk about it, we won't know
(02:30):
2what we need to improve for the next time.
1And Preeti, do you have the six hours or do you have a different system in your organization?
3For us it is very similar as well. But I think the induction process is very thorough for us. So it can take 2 to 3 days sometimes, when educators comes, we go through in detail and it's about like child focus, like, we talk about the child safety standards in detail with them, and then we that's the opportunity for educators to, ask any questions, clarify any doubts they have, what to do in certain certain circumstances so that they gain more confidence, if anything, to happen.
(03:10):
3But I think we really instill is if you see something or witness something, it is your duty of care towards their child, to say something about it and how to go, around, any, any allegations have been made or any concerns a child has raised. But it's also about, having a clear expectations from the educators, let's say, if they know what are their roles and responsibilities within our organization, knowing a set of policies, that they know they are in place, it is for them, to create a better environment for the children.
(03:46):
3They are more confident in, asking for help or raising the concerns. We constantly share, any relevant information with our educators. Any updates happen? If you put up something, it's been shared with the educators, so they are on top of it. They know that, the knowledge is current trainings. And as we Vanessa mentioned, for as well, refresher courses, constantly making sure that every year and a half they are updating their child protection as well because it's a refresher.
(04:18):
3You need to know, what, what is, your responsibilities and duty of care towards the children? We do, our lead educator meetings is is when we discuss our children as well and what kind of support we can give them, because there's a variety of things happening, with children could be, emotionally, psychologically, something in personal life.
(04:40):
3There's so much. So, having those skills, upskilling our leaders so they can support their assistant educators, a team, within our, organization.
1You can train educators, and they can know why to report. They can know how to report. There's still barriers to reporting. What are some of the barriers that you've experienced to reporting.
(05:03):
3This view towards? There are some barriers to educate like educators might have and the families might have a for educators could be not knowing what to do. There's a one thing I think, when first time they come, they don't know. What are we going to do with this? It's a big thing for us. So they might question themselves whether it is a reportable conduct or not.
(05:25):
3So they might not say something about it. What I have seen is, they know the family really well. They have known this family for a couple of years now. They're not that kind of people. That's the one thing I've heard a couple of times. They might want to protect. Educator and educator or a family member.
(05:46):
3But the main thing I think we just keep on talking about, the regulations that it is our responsibility. It's a legal requirement, to ensure that child or child is our priority.
1It's putting the children first.
3It is putting the children first. They come first. It's a key role. I think that's a constant thing, is talking about regulation and Chelsea's standards with the children or with the, educators that that is, key role in making sure that children are safe and they come first in our environment.
(06:18):
1Vanessa, at school, it was ingrained in us not to dob.
2Yes.
1Don't dob. Don't be a doba. Reporting is the direct opposite of that. How do you get around that kind of mindset?
2I think for us, the key message when it comes to that as well is making sure that they understand that if you feel something and something's not right and we need to investigate and it goes nowhere, that's okay. But if it goes some way, we've possibly changed the life of a child. And that's something that we instill throughout our training, particularly with our service leaders, is that it doesn't matter.
(06:57):
2It's not a waste of time if this can, you know, lead into an investigation that particularly comes up with some findings and we can change the life of a child or stop a child from experiencing harm, that's a win for us and you coming forward to provide that is not daubing you've made an impact to the to the life of that child.
(07:21):
2But if you say nothing, it's absolutely going to go nowhere.
1So and I guess another potential barrier is not having faith in the system that if you make a report that it's going to be followed through appropriately. How do you ensure that your workers have faith in your investigation and reporting systems?
(07:41):
2Yeah, I think for us, again, it's encouraging them when we do have a positive outcome to say thank you. Thank you for raising your voice. Thank you for bringing that to our attention, because it actually led somewhere, without having to give them the details, which might be confidential. It's making sure that they understand that they've done the right thing and empowering them to then talk to their peers as well about, you know, their experiences, because now it's become their experience that they can share with somebody and say, well, actually, I've experienced that situation.
(08:11):
2I came forward, I said something, and it led to something else.
1Now, I'd like to talk a little bit about child friendly reporting. Pretty much. First question is to you, how do people in your organization understand how to identify and report unacceptable behaviors, including who to report it to?
3So, our process starts with the induction, when the new employees start a, a service that includes we go through a, in detail induction about a center, our policies and procedures. We go through their job descriptions, and child safety standards. It's part of them. So we go through the employment code of conduct. There's a child protection policy we have in a center that covers everything in detail.
(08:57):
3That's, part of a process. What we do is we keep on reviewing these as well as we go. So we take feedback from the educators. Anything during the process they raise. And then we reflect with our executive team and then we will come up with, either changing some things or updating it, obviously going with the website.
3So, we definitely, use that as a reference. If something has been updated that comes into reference as well. So that is in detail, these things are done, in one on one meeting with educators. So, currently we just, went through our, of, child safety and wellbeing employee code of conduct. So it was one on one with all of us, every single educated.
(09:39):
3So, yeah, it is a very thorough process for us.
1What are some of the things in particular that you, that you look out for in terms of what should be reported?
3There's a lot of, things. So obviously, first they need to know that the children's come first children. It's it's about children. Whatever they say, they need to be heard. Looking for the signs and, any triggers or any things they're displaying. So making them aware of that, how to report it, who to approach.
(10:12):
3And I do it normalizing it. It is very important for us regular conversations with every educator so they know it's a safe place, a safe space. They can always come to the educators or to the center director to come and speak about if they have any concerns. So having creating those, safe spaces and, safe environment for educators to come and discuss these, it's just I think this very, vital, for our organization and Vanessa's.
(10:40):
1Is it similar for you in your organization?
2Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's crucial for us when we have new starters to make sure that right from the onboarding process, right through to their induction, that we're consistently talking about the expectations and their roles and responsibilities around safeguarding children and young people within our service delivery.
(11:01):
1And how do you go about reinforcing that, like when when they start they get that information. But how do you then make sure that it keeps getting embedded as a, you know, if they've been there for five years, ten years?
2Yeah, absolutely. Look, we do have refresher training as well. And we've got a series, a suite, you could say, of, safeguarding training that we provide our team members. We're consistently looking at how we continuously improve those and regularly update them to make sure that we're staying consistent with what's happening in the sector and that our team always know that information.
(11:32):
2And as well as that, we also make sure that, our support team that's on the ground visiting the services, consistently talking to the team about that. So, one of the things that we've got in place is, a playbook that we it's almost like a newsletter that gets put throughout, throughout the organization. And our compliance team members make sure that they're consistently putting key messages in there, to support the team in having those discussions with the children on the ground as well.
(11:57):
2And so that the team have tools and resources available to them to, to support them in the delivery of that.
1Wow. So that actually leads really well into my next question. Are pretty mentioned how, putting the children first, how do you make sure your reporting process is as child friendly or, or child centered at least, but but also child friendly aspects too?
(12:18):
2Absolutely. I think for us it's making sure that they're simple and clear and that they're visible not only to the team members but the children. So one of the things that we have is we've got a, a child safety poster that's available to all the children and all staff, three very simple messages around, feel safe, be safe.
(12:40):
2And if you've got if you he see or feel something that's not right, tell someone. And so, those are key messages for us. We've got photos of the people that are available to them with phone numbers readily available to them as well. So accessible to, again, not only the children, but the team members, and even families walking through, so that if they're not comfortable with somebody that's there or it may be some somebody that's there that they need to speak about, that there are people that are accessible to them that they can raise these concerns with.
(13:14):
1That sounds like it's really well embedded. They're pretty. Is that the same in your organization how to how children are supported to to be able to feel comfortable to report in your organization?
3I think, our philosophy is attachment attachment theory. So building those positive relation with the children, children, them knowing that we and they this is a safe place, they can come all any time to talk to us. Creating the those environment is a key for us. Knowing the convention on the rights of the child. So everybody's aware that, how do we respect children?
(13:46):
3Children needs to be heard. And, the dignity needs to be maintained. So, if everybody is if anybody's coming forward and talking about, their, fear or their concerns, they know we are approachable and that will be heard. So obviously respecting how how they're saying things, when they want to talk about it. So those things come into factor for us, not forcing them for conversations.
(14:16):
3So if someone is raising concerns, I think it's very important for us to, sometimes, for example, we have new educators who might raise or someone mentioned something, so and they're not comfortable talking to it to, to them. So those educators have the confidence in approaching a lead educator or a director to, find a space to go and talk to the child, whoever they feel comfortable.
(14:39):
3That's why knowing the children really helps, because they know what they're like. So those people can approach them. They know it will be a safe space if, a certain educator will go and talk to them. Those things are really important. And knowing that it's their choice, what they would like to disclose as well, that were a note to him that that's very important for us.
(14:59):
1To without going into details, can you give any examples of how children have disclosed to you? Have they come up and spoken to you? Have they responded to questions of the has there been sort of any physical evidence? How have you sort of been able to prompt those those discussions?
3I guess there are different ways I have, done in the past, and I educators have done that to, not always it has been reportable, but it's always been addressed, 100%. And, for example, there have been times when, something the children have said made comments about a family member, that we not sure about.
(15:37):
3So we will ask the educators, okay, build that relationship. Don't prompt any questions. It should be not closed in question questions. So we guide them through the process, make notes, document everything they say. That's very important because that actually helps us to identify. Is it? This is a continuous behavior is there's a pattern and then is it reportable or not?
(16:00):
3That's one way to go. Then they are visible signs. Then you can see, and educators have raised concerns to ask that. Yeah I'm concerned. And you know, when you have this gut feeling something is wrong, sometimes you can explain to educators, look, certain behaviors, you talk about behaviors. It is what is normal and not normal.
3But then we always say to educators, you have this gut feeling that you are not confident that something is wrong there. Let's do them. So, follow the, story. You follow the steps. We are with them throughout the process so they know that we are guiding them because it is quite daunting. As educators always like someone to support them.
(16:39):
3And that's telling them it's okay, let's do the whole process together, and then we will, see what, report come. Sometimes we had to call the child protection helpline. That's been said or sometimes just asked to document. And that's what we keep doing the documentation till we are satisfied that it's not an ongoing thing.
1I think that's something that doesn't get discussed very often, is the fact it's actually a team thing. It's not. You're not on your own. If you feel that something's wrong, then there are people that you can approach to support you in that.
(17:06):
3Yes. Yeah. Always educators feel this way. But I think that's what is important from the beginning of the educators. No, it is no more nothing. We really need to normalize this thing. It is the fact it can happen any time in center and when you are out there. So we're just talking about it as you can just feel more confident.
3Okay. I can do with someone, I can someone will guide me through the process and they will gain the confidence. Especially they know that it is about the child, but we need to make sure that they are safe in our care environment.
(17:36):
1And Vanessa, have you had sort of real world examples of children disclosing or coming to believe that children are being exposed to harm?
2Absolutely. I think it's, you know, a very confrontational, you know, experience sometimes for our educators particularly, you know, we've got a very young workforce. So, you know, the workforce coming in that hasn't been exposed to, you know, these kind of interactions with children and then having a child, you know, whether that's verbally or physically show signs of abuse is is quite confrontational to the team.
(18:10):
2So making sure that they understand that. Yes. Like you said, it's not a one person show. There is a team of us that will support you through this and making sure that our team members understand that they're safe in bringing these things to our attention. We've had examples of where children, are not verbally telling us or making a disclosure, but they do that through drawings.
(18:35):
2And, you know, it's training our teams to understand that disclosures won't always come in certain ways. There are gems out there that that we can start to understand those signs of, and, and by looking, you know, at a drawing and without prompting, but asking the questions, talk to me about what's happening in this picture. Can you tell me, can you tell me who that is or what's happening in that drawing or even when they're in, you know, social play and, you know, building, you know, there's a monster under the bed.
(19:07):
2Is a good example. We always talk to our teams about, you know, that monster for some children is a reality. So, you know, understanding what those signs look like. And we have unfortunately had children in nonverbal ways or in non direct ways, disguise things that have been happening to them. So making sure our teams understand that there's a team of people there to to walk you through this process.
(19:30):
1And are there other ways you can be attuned beyond drawings like like if a child is not verbal, there are other signs that you can look for.
2Absolutely. I think with our teams, it's very much letting them know that it's anticipating behavior. And key, as pretty said, is, you know, the relationships that you have with your children is going to be crucial as well, because you can start to understand and anticipate the behaviors. You know, you've got children that are coming in, they bright, they're happy, they coming into the session and they're excited.
(20:00):
2And when you start to see those behaviors change, that's a that's a, you know, an indicator that start asking some questions. Oh what's happening today? You look a little bit sad, you know, and again open ended questions but asking and it's okay to do that because if we're asking those questions, we're continuing to build relationships with children, but we're also providing them an opportunity in a safe space to start sharing something that might be happening to them.
(20:28):
1And creating if their children with other vulnerabilities and disability, for example, are there ways to support them?
3Absolutely. We do that. Children does, from different cultural backgrounds or with, different abilities. They have the what is we teach children about. Inclusive environment. So, peer to peer interactions. How they doing? Teaching children about we use social stories with the children that that is especially with children, nonverbal children or children with any additional needs, they are not able to, identify the patterns.
(21:09):
3So social stories are used to, teach children basic skills, including talking about fair and unfair as well. When to say no. This is something we do, across the center from our nursery room to our preschool program. Because children involved in decision making, something simple as, if it's starting with, would you like to sit on a pink chair or a blue chair?
(21:37):
3Do you want a red ball or a blue ball to which you would like to play outside or inside, giving that choice to children and being part of decision making? It is quite basic, but that really boosts the confidence in their educator, educators, then building relationships with other children. And we use, a lot of books, books about, we are both of our own body talking about, diversity because everybody's different.
(22:11):
3There's so many ways of being so those discussions are important. Through a conversation, small group experiences and children are exposed to them constantly.
1I think that's that's a really important point that you raise because it's there's two sides to the coin is the supporting children to report, but there's also empowering them so that they can, either feel more confident to report or in fact, potentially prevent anything happening to them in the first place. Do you have other protective behaviors, that you, that you use in your center?
(22:42):
3We do use in the center. What happens is, it is not something that you do in a large group experience, talking to everyone. It is quite in small group focused, based on what's going on, dynamics of the room as well. The children as well. It is important for educators to be trained, to do the same series with, with the children.
(23:04):
3So we really keep in mind, how we plan it, how we, how the educators are going to approach this situation. And so we've had situations before when privacy of our bodies or it could be, stranger danger. How we approach so it is has been sometimes it has to be child focused. So they have to be, we plan experiences based using the safe series with the children.
(23:28):
3So it is key factor, for us. Yep.
1That's great. And so how do you go about empowering children or providing protective behaviors in your environments?
2So we have a few things that we introduce to the children, when they arrive at session. And one of those things is a children's meeting. So part of the session each day is to have, a children's meeting and talk about what they're wanting to do for the day, that supports us in planning our program. But a particular part of that children's meeting is also having a child safety section.
(24:00):
2And in that section, again, is where our compliance team might prompt some reflective questions to talk to the children about. But something as key as asking them what makes you feel safe. And that might be that the gates are locked, or that the door is closed, or that the lights are on, and by the children being able to provide us with those key, insights, it allows us to create a safer environment.
(24:23):
2And our team doing that allows the children to then feel that there is safety there where they can start to raise those concerns.
1We had one child and they drew a picture of a of a, you can call it Hammer Barn Store. Yeah. And that was where they felt safe.
2Absolutely.
1And that was they're safe.
2And you'd be surprised that for us, one of the key things is that you know, uniforms when when I know my I'm not I'm safe when my teachers are in uniforms. Right. Because if you're not in a uniform, they don't know who that person is, and they don't know that that person belongs to to the group that that they're in.
(24:57):
2So, our children's meetings is a really key part of us understanding how we can continue to allow the children to feel safe and empower them to speak up. And one of the other things that, we do introduce is, again, I mentioned the child safe posters, that we have, but I think the most important one about that is that when we're talking about protective behaviors with the children, it's making sure that they're participating in those experiences with the educators.
(25:30):
2It's not about educators going off and doing training. And then coming back to implement something. It's the children are learning with the team. And when we are looking at sending them tools and resources, that it's a collaborative piece of work with the children. If they can feel safe that I'm learning something with my educators, then we're empowering them that it's okay to speak up.
(25:52):
2And it's that feeling. It's that safety feeling that it's okay to speak up because I'm not going to get in trouble for it. Somebody, he's going to help.
1That's great. So taking it forward, they need to we've got a situation where educators are all they're aware of. They're responsive to cues and things like that. But then they see a child and they notice something in a drawing. The behaviors change. This normally happy child is suddenly not happy. And then they come and tell you something. How do you respond appropriately from that point?
(26:22):
1But what are the steps that you take?
2Yeah. So look, we I think from then onwards we asked them firstly, will Assamese do we believe you for that child's at immediate risk of harm? I think that's really important step to that. We don't want to kind of float over, because if there is, we believe that anything that the child has spoken to us about is going to put that child at further risk of harm, then that's when we need to start looking at, you know, calling the police and the next steps from there.
(26:51):
2If we don't believe the child's at risk of harm, we just ask them to make sure that go back, give the child the time that they need. Nothing says more to a child. Then I'm going to stop everything I'm doing to listen to you. And nothing's going to mean more to them in that moment. That you that this person is here to listen.
(27:12):
2We have other team members, you know, that we we can arrange what's happening around us. But if you can stop and give that child the time that they need to talk about what's happening in their life, nothing will mean more to them once we've gathered that information. It's about making sure that we reassure the child that, you know, thank you for sharing that with us.
2And we're going and and making sure that they understand what steps are going to be taken next and letting them know I'm going to tell somebody about it so that we can look at how we can help. Once that's done, I think it's really important then to speak with the surrounding team and also start involving some of the other stakeholders.
(27:53):
2It's, in that child's life. And for example, for us, the benefit is we operate out of the school. So looking at how we connect with the school and understand is there anything that they're noticing as well, once we can understand all the information we have, then we take the next steps around reporting, you know, making sure that we've reported following the steps that's been provided to us, whether that be reports, child protection, report to the police, reportable conduct as well, and making sure that we then following the steps around what we need to do to support the team in place.
(28:29):
1Preeti, another question. We've just been talking about open and closed questions, but what if children are too young for questions? Babies and toddlers and you've observed a concern, how do you support them?
3So there are different kinds of, cues that children can give us. They are verbal, non-verbal communications. A verbal communication could be, talking about their saw somewhere or could be, they are hurt. Or you, you might say they are asking for more food than often. So they are visible. You can see them as well. Could be their, skin tone.
(29:08):
3It's changed. Their behaviors have changed. Now they are more clingy too. So don't educators then the others, or they don't want to go home with certain adults, during pickup times. So those are the cues educators pick on. And it does happen. It doesn't have to be about, safety of the child, but it could be some changes in general happening at the, at the home.
(29:30):
3So, so being aware of that a really helps. As well. There are some times when, what we do, we teach children to say no. So. And it's okay to say no. So if I'm saying, would you like to have water or milk for the babies? And if they say choose something, we respect that. If they say they don't want something, we want to respect that too.
(29:53):
3Do you want to go outside? No, I don't want to go outside. Okay, we play inside. What do you want to do that. So children see those things? And the secure relationship that is the key with the younger one. So books as well. The books come in handy with us, with young children. We talk about, bucket filling books where how I, when I feel happy, when I feel sad.
(30:15):
3I think those are the starting points with young children as well.
1I think what you said earlier, too, is really important, isn't it? It's about forming those relationships with those children and really getting to know them. Because I remember with my younger daughter, when I drop her off at daycare, she would cry like anything. She didn't want me to go. And I thought, that looks bad. But then I go and pick her up and she would cry like anything because she didn't want to leave.
(30:37):
1But once the educators understood that pattern, they knew that there was nothing concerned about. But I imagine if in a different context that either those things could be concerning.
3Yes, it can always happen. I think, if you have the relationships, that's what it is. And you have such a positive relationship, they don't want to let go of you in the morning. And the educators at night, in the afternoon because it has so much fun with them. Yeah. Yeah.
(31:01):
1Yeah, yeah. Vanessa, do you have, specific, mechanisms, I guess, where my children can report. I mean, I guess it's hard with children. Like, if, you know, an older cohort, you can provide an email address or something like that. But, how do you work with younger children in a supportive way to, give them a direct way to, to be able to raise concerns?
(31:22):
2Absolutely. I think this is probably one of the most challenging parts for us as well, because if there is a child that is at risk of harm, how do they communicate if they're going into an environment outside of our care that is dangerous for them? They it's highly likely they're not going to have access to internet or an email or a mobile, to make those calls.
(31:44):
2So for us, it's really important to make sure that our team members consistently talk to them about the child safe officers. We have national child safe offices, and we also have state based ones, as we operate outside of New South Wales as well. And it's crucial that they have a photo of that person and the phone number and that it's easily accessible to them during the time they're in our care, and that if something is disclosed to them that our team members are giving them access to the phone so that they can call us, once they have the opportunity to call us, then they have access to somebody that is outside the service.
(32:21):
2Somebody with a different face, somebody who they don't know, who they can openly share what's happening to them. And again, those child safe officers can then act accordingly.
1And we've talked a little bit about that sort of, I guess, triage process. How serious is it. Do you call the police? Do you call DCG. Then there's the Reportable Conduct Directorate as the office of the Children's Guardian. How do you know what to report to them?
(32:45):
2I think for us it's looking at we've got, I guess, a list of things that we believe is unacceptable behavior. And then what is reportable conduct? Then there's the other side of it of what could be criminal. And I think when we escalate that right through even to myself and we're still unsure of where these may see it, I think it's really important to understand that you can call and you can speak to somebody and talk through that process and get direction around what they believe needs to happen next.
(33:17):
2And where, you know, as you said earlier, we're all human. Sometimes it is very hard to understand where a situation may set in. So making sure that everybody out there understands that you can call, the reportable conduct team and, you know, get guidance around where you think this needs to sit. And I think that's really important to have those people out there supporting us as well, because we support people who work with children.
(33:45):
2But then there needs to be the tools and resources for us as well.
1Well, this brings us to Stephanie, a representative of the Osages Reportable Conduct Directorate. Hi, Steph. We know sometimes there's a bit of confusion about what to report and who to report to. How do you go about supporting people to understand their reporting obligations?
(34:09):
2Sure. Well, let me say, first of all, that we acknowledge the range of reporting responsibilities, that exist for early childhood providers, in particular, as Vanessa's just mentioned, in any given situation, you may need to report things to police and to the child protection helpline. You might also have to report to the New South Wales ICAC Regulatory Authority and the OCG, though not everything that needs to be reported to the regulatory authority needs to be reported to us, so we know it can get confusing, especially when reportable conduct isn't your day to day work because it is a challenging area, and we're working with the New South Wales Regulatory Authority at the moment, actually to
(34:48):
2try to just streamline some of that, some of those reporting obligations. But to answer your question, in terms of when a reportable allegation needs to be notified twice, a notification needs to be made to the IG when a reportable allegation has been made against an employee of an early childhood service. Now, when I say employee, it includes not just staff, but certain volunteers and contractors as well.
(35:15):
2So it could be a parent, volunteer or agency staff who you've brought in when someone sick. So if an allegations made against an employee and the alleged victim of the conduct is a child, it'll be reportable to us if it falls into one of the categories of reportable conduct. And they are if I just run through them really quickly, assault, ill treatment, sexual offenses, sexual misconduct, neglect, behavior that causes significant emotional or psychological harm to a child.
(35:44):
2And there are also two offenses under the Crimes Act that have to do with a failure to protect or failure to report. Now, we don't have time today for me to, you know, talk through each of those definitions. But we do have a fact sheet on our website that's called identifying reportable allegations. And it does give you that detail that you need.
2I suppose one of the critical things to know about the reportable conduct scheme is that it's allegations based.
(36:09):
1Can I can I just interrupt you there for just in terms of the wording, just, for the listeners, I just want to, I guess, make it clear. So something is an allegation when it's first raised and then when it's found probably to be true, it becomes a reportable conduct matter. Is that how you phrase it?
2Yeah. So we would say at the start it's an allegation. And then once there's been an investigation and if the entity finds that that conduct actually did occur, a reportable conduct finding would be made. So it would be sustained as reportable conduct.
(36:39):
1Great. Thanks. Sorry.
2Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So one of the critical things to know about report, the reportable conduct scheme is that it's allegations based. So when someone makes a reportable allegation, you don't have to have any information in to suggest that the alleged conduct actually occurred. In fact, you might have very good reasons for thinking it probably didn't occur. It doesn't matter.
(37:02):
2It still needs to be notified to the IG, because the test is not whether you think the person may have engaged in reportable conduct, the test is whether it's been alleged by someone that they have.
1That's a really important definition, isn't it? So yeah, it's not whether you think it's true. It's when you have that allegation raised, when you get, an allegation, how do you assess the reports when you first receive them?
(37:29):
3Sure.
2Well, we read through all of the information that an entity sends through to us, and when we do that, we're looking at it to assess whether it amounts to a reportable allegation that's within our scope. But we're also looking at the entity's initial response to the allegations, because we know how critical it is to get things right at the start, and how that can set a course of the way that something unfolds from there.
(37:52):
2So we look at things like whether reports have been made, if needed, to police and to the child protection helpline, and whether police or DCI are responding to those reports. If the matter is still with one of those agencies, the reportable conduct investigation will be suspended until the entity gets clearance to go ahead with it. We look at, any risks that might exist to children or any other individuals and the adequacy of the risk management action that's been taken.
(38:20):
2We look at any potential systems issues that there might be in the material way, looking at whether there's any information sharing that needs to be happening between entities. So at that point, we might contact the entity to just to ask some further questions and get a bit more information to help us understand what's going on.
1And I guess the other side of that, like it's an allegations based scheme, but it's also the Reportable Conduct Directorate. You don't do the investigations, do you? Only oversight the investigations, the entities do the investigations themselves. How do you go about how has that oversight process work?
(38:55):
2Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate you making that point, Simon, because I think this is a real point of confusion. So understandably, particularly in the early childhood sector, because the New South Wales Regulatory Authority, when entities report to them, they do carry out investigations. Whereas our role is actually to oversight the reportable conduct investigation that the service itself carries out.
(39:22):
2So basically, at that initial stage, when we first get the notification, we'll decide whether to take a more active role in monitoring their investigation. And that means that will work more closely with that service to provide guidance and support to help them to meet their obligations, particularly if they're a first time notifier and a new to the scheme, assuming that the reportable conduct investigation isn't suspended because police or DCI are involved, the next step will be for the report.
(39:51):
2Sorry. The next step will be for the entity to start their investigation. And in terms of our oversight, the entity has to provide us with what we call an interim report. At the 30 day mark. And there's an interim report form on our website that prompts them for all the information that we need. And that's an opportunity for us basically to find out what's happened so far in the investigation, to assess whether it's on track and see whether there's an opportunity for us to jump in and provide some guidance, at any stage in the process, we might ask the entity for a bit more information.
(40:23):
2We might ask for an update on the risk management. We might ask who they're intending to interview, for example. And then once the entity has finished their investigation and made findings, they'll feeling the entity report form on our website, and they'll give us all of the documentation and will assess the investigation as a whole. So if we have any questions or concerns at that point, we might go back and ask some questions.
(40:48):
2If not, we'll provide the entity with some feedback on the investigation that we hope will help them in future matters.
1Is there anything that entities should know before commencing an investigation?
2Yeah. Look, receiving a reportable allegation and having to investigate it can be pretty stressful. There's a lot to think about, and there can be a lot of pressure to get things resolved quickly, particularly if you've got an employee that's been stood down or parents who are agitating for an outcome. So what I would encourage entities to do is to not let that pressure propel them into action before they've had the chance to stop and plan out the process that they're going to take.
(41:23):
2So before you start investigating, you're going to want to make a really clear plan. What information do you need to get? Who is going to get that information? When will you speak to the employee about the allegations and things like that? So, for example, when it comes to gathering evidence, identify where you're going to get the information from, you know, is the child of an age that you could actually ask them some questions?
(41:46):
2Were there witnesses that you could speak to? Is there CCTV footage to police or have information that you could request from them to help your investigation? You need to think through how to ensure procedural fairness for the employee, and how and when to communicate with the parents of the alleged victim. So there are a lot of things to think through.
(42:09):
2We have a fact sheet on planning investigations.
1I was going to ask because I'm not good. I run a good childcare center. I'm a good educator. Something's happened. Now I have to investigate something. How do I find out how to investigate?
2Yeah, yeah, well, you need guidance, don't you? Because it's not. It's not your bread and butter in that situation. And reportable conduct can be complex. And so we have, we have fact sheets available on our website that step you through a number of these things. And as Vanessa has already alluded to, you can always call us and get specific advice on a case.
(42:42):
1And I think you have a learning as well.
2We do. We have, e-learning available on our website. So there's a series of seven e-learning modules on responding to reportable allegations. Module one gives detailed guidance about child protection reporting obligations. So that's particularly relevant to what we're talking about today. But I do want to underline that perhaps the most key resource is our reportable conduct inquiries line.
(43:07):
2So that's a dedicated inquiries line. It's staffed by members of the reportable conduct team. It's open every day between 9 and 4. And we're always happy to receive those calls and give advice. We know the difference it can make in being able to talk through a matter with someone sooner rather than later. Particularly if you're dealing with an allegation that could be a criminal offense or an allegation that has any kind of complexity to it.
(43:34):
2Calling us in those early stages can help you start on the right track and then have confidence in the direction you're going in. So if you only take one message away from me today, that's the one I'd want it to be. Call us. You know, if you're unsure about whether something needs to be reported, call the inquiry line.
2We can give you advice.
1That does seem to be the key, doesn't it? Because there has been some talk about over reporting. But I think if they can pick the phone up and talk to you and then I can find out instantly whether that's something that should be reported or something that needs to be handled internally. But is not it not likely to be a reportable conduct allegation?
(44:09):
2Yeah, that's right. And look, it's true that the early childhood sector does have a higher a much higher rate of notifying matters that don't need to be notified to our office and other sectors. And there's probably a few things behind that, one of which is a very low tolerance in the sector for any kind of mistreatment of children, which is a very positive thing.
2But it does point to the need for ongoing education and, you know, highlights the need for us to be available to provide that support, and to give that guidance.
(44:37):
1So, Steph, what should, people in the sector be mindful of before reporting to report, conduct.
2Sure. So before reporting to us, I'd suggest two things. First, get all the details you can about what's been alleged. So sometimes and allegations made and there's just not enough information to know whether it's reportable. Let's say an educator, tells their nominated supervisor that they saw another educator dragging a child across the room. The first thing the nominated supervisor is going to need to do is clarify that information.
(45:10):
2What do they mean by dragging? Ask them to spell out exactly what they saw, you know, with a child's feet on the ground, or was their body literally being dragged across the floor by one? What was the level of force that was used? Was the child injured? All those kinds of details are going to help inform whether it needs to be reported to us.
2And one of the things I do want to say is, although there is a seven business day time frame for notifying reportable allegations, that time frame doesn't kick in until it's clear that the allegation is reportable. So if a vague allegation is made, we don't want centers to panic and just rush to notify us if they can. Feel free to take the time they need to actually ask some questions, clarify the information, and then make the decision about whether to notify.
(45:54):
2And the second thing I would say is, once you have that extra detail that you need, have a look at the fact sheet on our website on identifying reportable allegations. If you're confident that the allegation doesn't meet the definition for any of the categories, just document that decision. And the reason for it. And as I said, if you're not sure, just call us.
(46:15):
2And we can give you that advice.
1Say something's happened in the center and a child has been harmed in some way, and it's a reportable allegation. At what point do you let, that child's parents know? How do you manage the openness of the investigation, not just at the allegation stage, but, when a finding is made? And what's the process of informing people?
(46:40):
2Well, our expectation would be that, parents would be informed, as soon as an incident occurs that involves their child. I suppose there could be some exceptions to that. If the allegation involves a serious criminal offense or something. So in a situation like that, the first call would be to the police. And, you and you would also take advice from police then about, the issue of what to say to the parents and how much to say.
(47:10):
2Beyond that, though, in a reportable conduct investigation, the legislation does make clear what information entities must provide to the alleged victim or the parents of the alleged victim. Unless it's not in the public interest to provide that information. So essentially, in the ordinary course, and when you're dealing with very young children, the center must let the parents know about the progress of the investigation and the findings that are made in that investigation.
(47:41):
2And the outcome. So they are actually aware of what's happened to the report. And what the outcome of that investigation was.
1Pretty have you been involved in an investigation and if so, how did you manage that, that, sharing of information where it was necessary, but also protecting, the confidentiality of people as well, is that it's a tricky, thing to navigate. But how do you go about that?
(48:08):
3Thankfully, I have not seen that lost handedly, but we do have that in, policies and procedures. If that to happen. Let's take the example of an educator being involved in this. We have a process of, obviously we have to let the families know, but that there's an investig ongoing investigation. Parents are informed about the incident.
(48:33):
3We don't make a decision there. And then because we need to investigate exactly how, and what happened. So you need to have the facts before obviously talking to, the right people, to make sure that we are not, any steps, not being missed, in this process, whether, that would be, immediate stepping down of an educator while the investigation is on or, any other, any other, procedures would be followed.
(49:03):
3So based on the circumstance, this will be the this will occur. If it is reportable, obviously, then we will follow the, the procedures.
1Vanessa, have you had to handle that information sharing?
2Unfortunately, yes. And I think that, one of the key things that we always are mindful of is that it is always sensitive information, particularly to a parent, when it's something that's happened to their child. So being open and transparent, I think for us, what's worked in the past is making sure that we've told them, they're not always the first point of call.
(49:39):
2As mentioned, we you know, sometimes the police may need to be involved, but as soon as we are able to tell them, making sure that we've let them know what's happened, we may not always have the facts at the time as well. So making sure that we've let them know that an incident has occurred where we believe they may have been in, in an appropriate interaction involving their child, making sure that we've let them know what our next steps are and when we're going to get back to them with further information.
(50:05):
2I think that's always key to a family, to let them know what's happening next, and that we will come back to them as soon as we have more information. That's allowed us to take the time to get all the facts, investigate what we need to, and appropriately share the information with the family.
1And I guess that means sticking with those commitments as well. And if you can't meet them, being proactive in letting people know why you haven't been able to meet.
(50:29):
2Absolutely. Yeah. And then that's going to be really unsettling for a parent. If we're not getting back to them until we have the facts. So if we don't have them in the time that we've promised, we'll call to let them know. Look, this is where we're up to. We still don't have this. So if you can give me a few more days, I'll come back to you and keep giving you an update as they come.
(50:49):
2Yeah.
1Steph, last question for you. You've heard these two educators speak passionately and with an amazing amount of insight into the nature of reporting as from a regulator point of view, how do you feel listening to them speak?
2Well, it's so encouraging, isn't it, to hear about the sorts of systems that are in place, at the coalface, because I'm sitting in an office every day, I'm very far away from that and often hearing about the things that go wrong. It's so it's so encouraging to hear about the kind, the, the very careful ways that these issues have been thought through, the ways that, you know, cultures of reporting are being supported.
(51:33):
2We want to do everything we can in the Reportable Conduct Directorate to be, support centers in working in that way, as has been said many times today, we're all human. People make mistakes. Things happen. But what's important is how we respond and the systems that are in place for responding. And so we very much want to work with, the sector to be supporting them in meeting their obligations, to be supporting them in, you know, making changes to systems if, if an allegation comes up and it highlights a gap or a problem or something that's not previously been addressed, you know, reportable allegations coming up can actually often be
(52:15):
2a wonderful opportunity to reflect on things and strengthen the systems that are in place, for keeping children safe.
1Yeah. And I think the key message that I've heard here today is if you see something, say something, and put children first. Thanks, Vanessa. Pretty and Stephanie, it's been a great session today. I've really enjoyed listening to you all, and I hope the listeners have as well. Listeners, you can go online any time to the office of the Children's Guardian website, and access free tools and resources to help children be safe by clicking the training and resources tab.
(52:50):
1You can also learn more about the Reportable Conduct Scheme. The link is in the show notes for this episode. Do you want to know how well you're doing with applying the standards? Why not try the chart safe self-assessment from the OCG managers and leaders, as well as employees of volunteers, can spend just 30 minutes answering a few basic questions and then be sent a tailored response showing what they're doing well.
(53:15):
1Any areas of improvement, and how they can access resources to help them. Don't forget that the child safe self-assessment and all the OCG training resources, including the Safe Series Protected Behaviors program for 2 to 6 year olds, are completely free. All the resources we've discussed in this episode are in the show. Notes. My name is Simon Luckhurst. Thanks for listening.
1Hello and welcome to this podcast from the office of the Children's Guardian. Funded by the New South Wales Department of Education under its Safety and Quality Practice program. Today we're going to be talking about reporting in an early education and care context. Reporting can take many forms, from minor breaches of policies and codes of conduct, through to things that are far more serious.
(00:26):
1We'll discuss when reports need to be made and who to, including mandatory reporting obligations. New South Wales Police and the Reportable Conduct Scheme. I'm particularly interested in what a child friendly reporting culture looks like in early education and out of school hours care services.
(00:48):
1My guests today are Vanessa Hextall, the national child safety officer and an Australia wide out of school hours care provider. Preeti Kiran, an experienced director of education at a long day care service in Sydney's Hills district. And Stephanie Minear, the manager of investigations within the Reportable Conduct Directorate at the office of the Children's Guardian. Reporting is incredibly complex and challenging.
(01:14):
1How do you instill that culture of the importance of reporting.
2In our organization? Something that we have come up with is our six R's. And what that means to us is that, it's it's the six hours around disclosure in response. And so what we look at is recognizing, reassuring and responding. And that's the first part of it. But then the second part of that is looking at, how we report, record and then reflect and take taking those opportunities to learn from past incidents to better our practices when it comes to the next one.
(01:53):
2And we do make mistakes, but if we can't understand the learnings from those we won't improve our practices for the next incidents that come in, particularly, making sure that our teams understand that it's okay to make mistakes. But the opportunity is in the learning from that, instilling that culture of, talking, talking about it, reflecting on what's happened and if we can, it is sometimes uncomfortable for our team, for the team to get together and talk about the incident that's occurred, because they know that somewhere along the line, they may have made a mistake or done something in the wrong step, but making sure that if we don't talk about it, we won't know
(02:30):
2what we need to improve for the next time.
1And Preeti, do you have the six hours or do you have a different system in your organization?
3For us it is very similar as well. But I think the induction process is very thorough for us. So it can take 2 to 3 days sometimes, when educators comes, we go through in detail and it's about like child focus, like, we talk about the child safety standards in detail with them, and then we that's the opportunity for educators to, ask any questions, clarify any doubts they have, what to do in certain certain circumstances so that they gain more confidence, if anything, to happen.
(03:10):
3But I think we really instill is if you see something or witness something, it is your duty of care towards their child, to say something about it and how to go, around, any, any allegations have been made or any concerns a child has raised. But it's also about, having a clear expectations from the educators, let's say, if they know what are their roles and responsibilities within our organization, knowing a set of policies, that they know they are in place, it is for them, to create a better environment for the children.
(03:46):
3They are more confident in, asking for help or raising the concerns. We constantly share, any relevant information with our educators. Any updates happen? If you put up something, it's been shared with the educators, so they are on top of it. They know that, the knowledge is current trainings. And as we Vanessa mentioned, for as well, refresher courses, constantly making sure that every year and a half they are updating their child protection as well because it's a refresher.
(04:18):
3You need to know, what, what is, your responsibilities and duty of care towards the children? We do, our lead educator meetings is is when we discuss our children as well and what kind of support we can give them, because there's a variety of things happening, with children could be, emotionally, psychologically, something in personal life.
(04:40):
3There's so much. So, having those skills, upskilling our leaders so they can support their assistant educators, a team, within our, organization.
1You can train educators, and they can know why to report. They can know how to report. There's still barriers to reporting. What are some of the barriers that you've experienced to reporting.
(05:03):
3This view towards? There are some barriers to educate like educators might have and the families might have a for educators could be not knowing what to do. There's a one thing I think, when first time they come, they don't know. What are we going to do with this? It's a big thing for us. So they might question themselves whether it is a reportable conduct or not.
(05:25):
3So they might not say something about it. What I have seen is, they know the family really well. They have known this family for a couple of years now. They're not that kind of people. That's the one thing I've heard a couple of times. They might want to protect. Educator and educator or a family member.
(05:46):
3But the main thing I think we just keep on talking about, the regulations that it is our responsibility. It's a legal requirement, to ensure that child or child is our priority.
1It's putting the children first.
3It is putting the children first. They come first. It's a key role. I think that's a constant thing, is talking about regulation and Chelsea's standards with the children or with the, educators that that is, key role in making sure that children are safe and they come first in our environment.
(06:18):
1Vanessa, at school, it was ingrained in us not to dob.
2Yes.
1Don't dob. Don't be a doba. Reporting is the direct opposite of that. How do you get around that kind of mindset?
2I think for us, the key message when it comes to that as well is making sure that they understand that if you feel something and something's not right and we need to investigate and it goes nowhere, that's okay. But if it goes some way, we've possibly changed the life of a child. And that's something that we instill throughout our training, particularly with our service leaders, is that it doesn't matter.
(06:57):
2It's not a waste of time if this can, you know, lead into an investigation that particularly comes up with some findings and we can change the life of a child or stop a child from experiencing harm, that's a win for us and you coming forward to provide that is not daubing you've made an impact to the to the life of that child.
(07:21):
2But if you say nothing, it's absolutely going to go nowhere.
1So and I guess another potential barrier is not having faith in the system that if you make a report that it's going to be followed through appropriately. How do you ensure that your workers have faith in your investigation and reporting systems?
(07:41):
2Yeah, I think for us, again, it's encouraging them when we do have a positive outcome to say thank you. Thank you for raising your voice. Thank you for bringing that to our attention, because it actually led somewhere, without having to give them the details, which might be confidential. It's making sure that they understand that they've done the right thing and empowering them to then talk to their peers as well about, you know, their experiences, because now it's become their experience that they can share with somebody and say, well, actually, I've experienced that situation.
(08:11):
2I came forward, I said something, and it led to something else.
1Now, I'd like to talk a little bit about child friendly reporting. Pretty much. First question is to you, how do people in your organization understand how to identify and report unacceptable behaviors, including who to report it to?
3So, our process starts with the induction, when the new employees start a, a service that includes we go through a, in detail induction about a center, our policies and procedures. We go through their job descriptions, and child safety standards. It's part of them. So we go through the employment code of conduct. There's a child protection policy we have in a center that covers everything in detail.
(08:57):
3That's, part of a process. What we do is we keep on reviewing these as well as we go. So we take feedback from the educators. Anything during the process they raise. And then we reflect with our executive team and then we will come up with, either changing some things or updating it, obviously going with the website.
3So, we definitely, use that as a reference. If something has been updated that comes into reference as well. So that is in detail, these things are done, in one on one meeting with educators. So, currently we just, went through our, of, child safety and wellbeing employee code of conduct. So it was one on one with all of us, every single educated.
(09:39):
3So, yeah, it is a very thorough process for us.
1What are some of the things in particular that you, that you look out for in terms of what should be reported?
3There's a lot of, things. So obviously, first they need to know that the children's come first children. It's it's about children. Whatever they say, they need to be heard. Looking for the signs and, any triggers or any things they're displaying. So making them aware of that, how to report it, who to approach.
(10:12):
3And I do it normalizing it. It is very important for us regular conversations with every educator so they know it's a safe place, a safe space. They can always come to the educators or to the center director to come and speak about if they have any concerns. So having creating those, safe spaces and, safe environment for educators to come and discuss these, it's just I think this very, vital, for our organization and Vanessa's.
(10:40):
1Is it similar for you in your organization?
2Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's crucial for us when we have new starters to make sure that right from the onboarding process, right through to their induction, that we're consistently talking about the expectations and their roles and responsibilities around safeguarding children and young people within our service delivery.
(11:01):
1And how do you go about reinforcing that, like when when they start they get that information. But how do you then make sure that it keeps getting embedded as a, you know, if they've been there for five years, ten years?
2Yeah, absolutely. Look, we do have refresher training as well. And we've got a series, a suite, you could say, of, safeguarding training that we provide our team members. We're consistently looking at how we continuously improve those and regularly update them to make sure that we're staying consistent with what's happening in the sector and that our team always know that information.
(11:32):
2And as well as that, we also make sure that, our support team that's on the ground visiting the services, consistently talking to the team about that. So, one of the things that we've got in place is, a playbook that we it's almost like a newsletter that gets put throughout, throughout the organization. And our compliance team members make sure that they're consistently putting key messages in there, to support the team in having those discussions with the children on the ground as well.
(11:57):
2And so that the team have tools and resources available to them to, to support them in the delivery of that.
1Wow. So that actually leads really well into my next question. Are pretty mentioned how, putting the children first, how do you make sure your reporting process is as child friendly or, or child centered at least, but but also child friendly aspects too?
(12:18):
2Absolutely. I think for us it's making sure that they're simple and clear and that they're visible not only to the team members but the children. So one of the things that we have is we've got a, a child safety poster that's available to all the children and all staff, three very simple messages around, feel safe, be safe.
(12:40):
2And if you've got if you he see or feel something that's not right, tell someone. And so, those are key messages for us. We've got photos of the people that are available to them with phone numbers readily available to them as well. So accessible to, again, not only the children, but the team members, and even families walking through, so that if they're not comfortable with somebody that's there or it may be some somebody that's there that they need to speak about, that there are people that are accessible to them that they can raise these concerns with.
(13:14):
1That sounds like it's really well embedded. They're pretty. Is that the same in your organization how to how children are supported to to be able to feel comfortable to report in your organization?
3I think, our philosophy is attachment attachment theory. So building those positive relation with the children, children, them knowing that we and they this is a safe place, they can come all any time to talk to us. Creating the those environment is a key for us. Knowing the convention on the rights of the child. So everybody's aware that, how do we respect children?
(13:46):
3Children needs to be heard. And, the dignity needs to be maintained. So, if everybody is if anybody's coming forward and talking about, their, fear or their concerns, they know we are approachable and that will be heard. So obviously respecting how how they're saying things, when they want to talk about it. So those things come into factor for us, not forcing them for conversations.
(14:16):
3So if someone is raising concerns, I think it's very important for us to, sometimes, for example, we have new educators who might raise or someone mentioned something, so and they're not comfortable talking to it to, to them. So those educators have the confidence in approaching a lead educator or a director to, find a space to go and talk to the child, whoever they feel comfortable.
(14:39):
3That's why knowing the children really helps, because they know what they're like. So those people can approach them. They know it will be a safe space if, a certain educator will go and talk to them. Those things are really important. And knowing that it's their choice, what they would like to disclose as well, that were a note to him that that's very important for us.
(14:59):
1To without going into details, can you give any examples of how children have disclosed to you? Have they come up and spoken to you? Have they responded to questions of the has there been sort of any physical evidence? How have you sort of been able to prompt those those discussions?
3I guess there are different ways I have, done in the past, and I educators have done that to, not always it has been reportable, but it's always been addressed, 100%. And, for example, there have been times when, something the children have said made comments about a family member, that we not sure about.
(15:37):
3So we will ask the educators, okay, build that relationship. Don't prompt any questions. It should be not closed in question questions. So we guide them through the process, make notes, document everything they say. That's very important because that actually helps us to identify. Is it? This is a continuous behavior is there's a pattern and then is it reportable or not?
(16:00):
3That's one way to go. Then they are visible signs. Then you can see, and educators have raised concerns to ask that. Yeah I'm concerned. And you know, when you have this gut feeling something is wrong, sometimes you can explain to educators, look, certain behaviors, you talk about behaviors. It is what is normal and not normal.
3But then we always say to educators, you have this gut feeling that you are not confident that something is wrong there. Let's do them. So, follow the, story. You follow the steps. We are with them throughout the process so they know that we are guiding them because it is quite daunting. As educators always like someone to support them.
(16:39):
3And that's telling them it's okay, let's do the whole process together, and then we will, see what, report come. Sometimes we had to call the child protection helpline. That's been said or sometimes just asked to document. And that's what we keep doing the documentation till we are satisfied that it's not an ongoing thing.
1I think that's something that doesn't get discussed very often, is the fact it's actually a team thing. It's not. You're not on your own. If you feel that something's wrong, then there are people that you can approach to support you in that.
(17:06):
3Yes. Yeah. Always educators feel this way. But I think that's what is important from the beginning of the educators. No, it is no more nothing. We really need to normalize this thing. It is the fact it can happen any time in center and when you are out there. So we're just talking about it as you can just feel more confident.
3Okay. I can do with someone, I can someone will guide me through the process and they will gain the confidence. Especially they know that it is about the child, but we need to make sure that they are safe in our care environment.
(17:36):
1And Vanessa, have you had sort of real world examples of children disclosing or coming to believe that children are being exposed to harm?
2Absolutely. I think it's, you know, a very confrontational, you know, experience sometimes for our educators particularly, you know, we've got a very young workforce. So, you know, the workforce coming in that hasn't been exposed to, you know, these kind of interactions with children and then having a child, you know, whether that's verbally or physically show signs of abuse is is quite confrontational to the team.
(18:10):
2So making sure that they understand that. Yes. Like you said, it's not a one person show. There is a team of us that will support you through this and making sure that our team members understand that they're safe in bringing these things to our attention. We've had examples of where children, are not verbally telling us or making a disclosure, but they do that through drawings.
(18:35):
2And, you know, it's training our teams to understand that disclosures won't always come in certain ways. There are gems out there that that we can start to understand those signs of, and, and by looking, you know, at a drawing and without prompting, but asking the questions, talk to me about what's happening in this picture. Can you tell me, can you tell me who that is or what's happening in that drawing or even when they're in, you know, social play and, you know, building, you know, there's a monster under the bed.
(19:07):
2Is a good example. We always talk to our teams about, you know, that monster for some children is a reality. So, you know, understanding what those signs look like. And we have unfortunately had children in nonverbal ways or in non direct ways, disguise things that have been happening to them. So making sure our teams understand that there's a team of people there to to walk you through this process.
(19:30):
1And are there other ways you can be attuned beyond drawings like like if a child is not verbal, there are other signs that you can look for.
2Absolutely. I think with our teams, it's very much letting them know that it's anticipating behavior. And key, as pretty said, is, you know, the relationships that you have with your children is going to be crucial as well, because you can start to understand and anticipate the behaviors. You know, you've got children that are coming in, they bright, they're happy, they coming into the session and they're excited.
(20:00):
2And when you start to see those behaviors change, that's a that's a, you know, an indicator that start asking some questions. Oh what's happening today? You look a little bit sad, you know, and again open ended questions but asking and it's okay to do that because if we're asking those questions, we're continuing to build relationships with children, but we're also providing them an opportunity in a safe space to start sharing something that might be happening to them.
(20:28):
1And creating if their children with other vulnerabilities and disability, for example, are there ways to support them?
3Absolutely. We do that. Children does, from different cultural backgrounds or with, different abilities. They have the what is we teach children about. Inclusive environment. So, peer to peer interactions. How they doing? Teaching children about we use social stories with the children that that is especially with children, nonverbal children or children with any additional needs, they are not able to, identify the patterns.
(21:09):
3So social stories are used to, teach children basic skills, including talking about fair and unfair as well. When to say no. This is something we do, across the center from our nursery room to our preschool program. Because children involved in decision making, something simple as, if it's starting with, would you like to sit on a pink chair or a blue chair?
(21:37):
3Do you want a red ball or a blue ball to which you would like to play outside or inside, giving that choice to children and being part of decision making? It is quite basic, but that really boosts the confidence in their educator, educators, then building relationships with other children. And we use, a lot of books, books about, we are both of our own body talking about, diversity because everybody's different.
(22:11):
3There's so many ways of being so those discussions are important. Through a conversation, small group experiences and children are exposed to them constantly.
1I think that's that's a really important point that you raise because it's there's two sides to the coin is the supporting children to report, but there's also empowering them so that they can, either feel more confident to report or in fact, potentially prevent anything happening to them in the first place. Do you have other protective behaviors, that you, that you use in your center?
(22:42):
3We do use in the center. What happens is, it is not something that you do in a large group experience, talking to everyone. It is quite in small group focused, based on what's going on, dynamics of the room as well. The children as well. It is important for educators to be trained, to do the same series with, with the children.
(23:04):
3So we really keep in mind, how we plan it, how we, how the educators are going to approach this situation. And so we've had situations before when privacy of our bodies or it could be, stranger danger. How we approach so it is has been sometimes it has to be child focused. So they have to be, we plan experiences based using the safe series with the children.
(23:28):
3So it is key factor, for us. Yep.
1That's great. And so how do you go about empowering children or providing protective behaviors in your environments?
2So we have a few things that we introduce to the children, when they arrive at session. And one of those things is a children's meeting. So part of the session each day is to have, a children's meeting and talk about what they're wanting to do for the day, that supports us in planning our program. But a particular part of that children's meeting is also having a child safety section.
(24:00):
2And in that section, again, is where our compliance team might prompt some reflective questions to talk to the children about. But something as key as asking them what makes you feel safe. And that might be that the gates are locked, or that the door is closed, or that the lights are on, and by the children being able to provide us with those key, insights, it allows us to create a safer environment.
(24:23):
2And our team doing that allows the children to then feel that there is safety there where they can start to raise those concerns.
1We had one child and they drew a picture of a of a, you can call it Hammer Barn Store. Yeah. And that was where they felt safe.
2Absolutely.
1And that was they're safe.
2And you'd be surprised that for us, one of the key things is that you know, uniforms when when I know my I'm not I'm safe when my teachers are in uniforms. Right. Because if you're not in a uniform, they don't know who that person is, and they don't know that that person belongs to to the group that that they're in.
(24:57):
2So, our children's meetings is a really key part of us understanding how we can continue to allow the children to feel safe and empower them to speak up. And one of the other things that, we do introduce is, again, I mentioned the child safe posters, that we have, but I think the most important one about that is that when we're talking about protective behaviors with the children, it's making sure that they're participating in those experiences with the educators.
(25:30):
2It's not about educators going off and doing training. And then coming back to implement something. It's the children are learning with the team. And when we are looking at sending them tools and resources, that it's a collaborative piece of work with the children. If they can feel safe that I'm learning something with my educators, then we're empowering them that it's okay to speak up.
(25:52):
2And it's that feeling. It's that safety feeling that it's okay to speak up because I'm not going to get in trouble for it. Somebody, he's going to help.
1That's great. So taking it forward, they need to we've got a situation where educators are all they're aware of. They're responsive to cues and things like that. But then they see a child and they notice something in a drawing. The behaviors change. This normally happy child is suddenly not happy. And then they come and tell you something. How do you respond appropriately from that point?
(26:22):
1But what are the steps that you take?
2Yeah. So look, we I think from then onwards we asked them firstly, will Assamese do we believe you for that child's at immediate risk of harm? I think that's really important step to that. We don't want to kind of float over, because if there is, we believe that anything that the child has spoken to us about is going to put that child at further risk of harm, then that's when we need to start looking at, you know, calling the police and the next steps from there.
(26:51):
2If we don't believe the child's at risk of harm, we just ask them to make sure that go back, give the child the time that they need. Nothing says more to a child. Then I'm going to stop everything I'm doing to listen to you. And nothing's going to mean more to them in that moment. That you that this person is here to listen.
(27:12):
2We have other team members, you know, that we we can arrange what's happening around us. But if you can stop and give that child the time that they need to talk about what's happening in their life, nothing will mean more to them once we've gathered that information. It's about making sure that we reassure the child that, you know, thank you for sharing that with us.
2And we're going and and making sure that they understand what steps are going to be taken next and letting them know I'm going to tell somebody about it so that we can look at how we can help. Once that's done, I think it's really important then to speak with the surrounding team and also start involving some of the other stakeholders.
(27:53):
2It's, in that child's life. And for example, for us, the benefit is we operate out of the school. So looking at how we connect with the school and understand is there anything that they're noticing as well, once we can understand all the information we have, then we take the next steps around reporting, you know, making sure that we've reported following the steps that's been provided to us, whether that be reports, child protection, report to the police, reportable conduct as well, and making sure that we then following the steps around what we need to do to support the team in place.
(28:29):
1Preeti, another question. We've just been talking about open and closed questions, but what if children are too young for questions? Babies and toddlers and you've observed a concern, how do you support them?
3So there are different kinds of, cues that children can give us. They are verbal, non-verbal communications. A verbal communication could be, talking about their saw somewhere or could be, they are hurt. Or you, you might say they are asking for more food than often. So they are visible. You can see them as well. Could be their, skin tone.
(29:08):
3It's changed. Their behaviors have changed. Now they are more clingy too. So don't educators then the others, or they don't want to go home with certain adults, during pickup times. So those are the cues educators pick on. And it does happen. It doesn't have to be about, safety of the child, but it could be some changes in general happening at the, at the home.
(29:30):
3So, so being aware of that a really helps. As well. There are some times when, what we do, we teach children to say no. So. And it's okay to say no. So if I'm saying, would you like to have water or milk for the babies? And if they say choose something, we respect that. If they say they don't want something, we want to respect that too.
(29:53):
3Do you want to go outside? No, I don't want to go outside. Okay, we play inside. What do you want to do that. So children see those things? And the secure relationship that is the key with the younger one. So books as well. The books come in handy with us, with young children. We talk about, bucket filling books where how I, when I feel happy, when I feel sad.
(30:15):
3I think those are the starting points with young children as well.
1I think what you said earlier, too, is really important, isn't it? It's about forming those relationships with those children and really getting to know them. Because I remember with my younger daughter, when I drop her off at daycare, she would cry like anything. She didn't want me to go. And I thought, that looks bad. But then I go and pick her up and she would cry like anything because she didn't want to leave.
(30:37):
1But once the educators understood that pattern, they knew that there was nothing concerned about. But I imagine if in a different context that either those things could be concerning.
3Yes, it can always happen. I think, if you have the relationships, that's what it is. And you have such a positive relationship, they don't want to let go of you in the morning. And the educators at night, in the afternoon because it has so much fun with them. Yeah. Yeah.
(31:01):
1Yeah, yeah. Vanessa, do you have, specific, mechanisms, I guess, where my children can report. I mean, I guess it's hard with children. Like, if, you know, an older cohort, you can provide an email address or something like that. But, how do you work with younger children in a supportive way to, give them a direct way to, to be able to raise concerns?
(31:22):
2Absolutely. I think this is probably one of the most challenging parts for us as well, because if there is a child that is at risk of harm, how do they communicate if they're going into an environment outside of our care that is dangerous for them? They it's highly likely they're not going to have access to internet or an email or a mobile, to make those calls.
(31:44):
2So for us, it's really important to make sure that our team members consistently talk to them about the child safe officers. We have national child safe offices, and we also have state based ones, as we operate outside of New South Wales as well. And it's crucial that they have a photo of that person and the phone number and that it's easily accessible to them during the time they're in our care, and that if something is disclosed to them that our team members are giving them access to the phone so that they can call us, once they have the opportunity to call us, then they have access to somebody that is outside the service.
(32:21):
2Somebody with a different face, somebody who they don't know, who they can openly share what's happening to them. And again, those child safe officers can then act accordingly.
1And we've talked a little bit about that sort of, I guess, triage process. How serious is it. Do you call the police? Do you call DCG. Then there's the Reportable Conduct Directorate as the office of the Children's Guardian. How do you know what to report to them?
(32:45):
2I think for us it's looking at we've got, I guess, a list of things that we believe is unacceptable behavior. And then what is reportable conduct? Then there's the other side of it of what could be criminal. And I think when we escalate that right through even to myself and we're still unsure of where these may see it, I think it's really important to understand that you can call and you can speak to somebody and talk through that process and get direction around what they believe needs to happen next.
(33:17):
2And where, you know, as you said earlier, we're all human. Sometimes it is very hard to understand where a situation may set in. So making sure that everybody out there understands that you can call, the reportable conduct team and, you know, get guidance around where you think this needs to sit. And I think that's really important to have those people out there supporting us as well, because we support people who work with children.
(33:45):
2But then there needs to be the tools and resources for us as well.
1Well, this brings us to Stephanie, a representative of the Osages Reportable Conduct Directorate. Hi, Steph. We know sometimes there's a bit of confusion about what to report and who to report to. How do you go about supporting people to understand their reporting obligations?
(34:09):
2Sure. Well, let me say, first of all, that we acknowledge the range of reporting responsibilities, that exist for early childhood providers, in particular, as Vanessa's just mentioned, in any given situation, you may need to report things to police and to the child protection helpline. You might also have to report to the New South Wales ICAC Regulatory Authority and the OCG, though not everything that needs to be reported to the regulatory authority needs to be reported to us, so we know it can get confusing, especially when reportable conduct isn't your day to day work because it is a challenging area, and we're working with the New South Wales Regulatory Authority at the moment, actually to
(34:48):
2try to just streamline some of that, some of those reporting obligations. But to answer your question, in terms of when a reportable allegation needs to be notified twice, a notification needs to be made to the IG when a reportable allegation has been made against an employee of an early childhood service. Now, when I say employee, it includes not just staff, but certain volunteers and contractors as well.
(35:15):
2So it could be a parent, volunteer or agency staff who you've brought in when someone sick. So if an allegations made against an employee and the alleged victim of the conduct is a child, it'll be reportable to us if it falls into one of the categories of reportable conduct. And they are if I just run through them really quickly, assault, ill treatment, sexual offenses, sexual misconduct, neglect, behavior that causes significant emotional or psychological harm to a child.
(35:44):
2And there are also two offenses under the Crimes Act that have to do with a failure to protect or failure to report. Now, we don't have time today for me to, you know, talk through each of those definitions. But we do have a fact sheet on our website that's called identifying reportable allegations. And it does give you that detail that you need.
2I suppose one of the critical things to know about the reportable conduct scheme is that it's allegations based.
(36:09):
1Can I can I just interrupt you there for just in terms of the wording, just, for the listeners, I just want to, I guess, make it clear. So something is an allegation when it's first raised and then when it's found probably to be true, it becomes a reportable conduct matter. Is that how you phrase it?
2Yeah. So we would say at the start it's an allegation. And then once there's been an investigation and if the entity finds that that conduct actually did occur, a reportable conduct finding would be made. So it would be sustained as reportable conduct.
(36:39):
1Great. Thanks. Sorry.
2Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So one of the critical things to know about report, the reportable conduct scheme is that it's allegations based. So when someone makes a reportable allegation, you don't have to have any information in to suggest that the alleged conduct actually occurred. In fact, you might have very good reasons for thinking it probably didn't occur. It doesn't matter.
(37:02):
2It still needs to be notified to the IG, because the test is not whether you think the person may have engaged in reportable conduct, the test is whether it's been alleged by someone that they have.
1That's a really important definition, isn't it? So yeah, it's not whether you think it's true. It's when you have that allegation raised, when you get, an allegation, how do you assess the reports when you first receive them?
(37:29):
3Sure.
2Well, we read through all of the information that an entity sends through to us, and when we do that, we're looking at it to assess whether it amounts to a reportable allegation that's within our scope. But we're also looking at the entity's initial response to the allegations, because we know how critical it is to get things right at the start, and how that can set a course of the way that something unfolds from there.
(37:52):
2So we look at things like whether reports have been made, if needed, to police and to the child protection helpline, and whether police or DCI are responding to those reports. If the matter is still with one of those agencies, the reportable conduct investigation will be suspended until the entity gets clearance to go ahead with it. We look at, any risks that might exist to children or any other individuals and the adequacy of the risk management action that's been taken.
(38:20):
2We look at any potential systems issues that there might be in the material way, looking at whether there's any information sharing that needs to be happening between entities. So at that point, we might contact the entity to just to ask some further questions and get a bit more information to help us understand what's going on.
1And I guess the other side of that, like it's an allegations based scheme, but it's also the Reportable Conduct Directorate. You don't do the investigations, do you? Only oversight the investigations, the entities do the investigations themselves. How do you go about how has that oversight process work?
(38:55):
2Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate you making that point, Simon, because I think this is a real point of confusion. So understandably, particularly in the early childhood sector, because the New South Wales Regulatory Authority, when entities report to them, they do carry out investigations. Whereas our role is actually to oversight the reportable conduct investigation that the service itself carries out.
(39:22):
2So basically, at that initial stage, when we first get the notification, we'll decide whether to take a more active role in monitoring their investigation. And that means that will work more closely with that service to provide guidance and support to help them to meet their obligations, particularly if they're a first time notifier and a new to the scheme, assuming that the reportable conduct investigation isn't suspended because police or DCI are involved, the next step will be for the report.
(39:51):
2Sorry. The next step will be for the entity to start their investigation. And in terms of our oversight, the entity has to provide us with what we call an interim report. At the 30 day mark. And there's an interim report form on our website that prompts them for all the information that we need. And that's an opportunity for us basically to find out what's happened so far in the investigation, to assess whether it's on track and see whether there's an opportunity for us to jump in and provide some guidance, at any stage in the process, we might ask the entity for a bit more information.
(40:23):
2We might ask for an update on the risk management. We might ask who they're intending to interview, for example. And then once the entity has finished their investigation and made findings, they'll feeling the entity report form on our website, and they'll give us all of the documentation and will assess the investigation as a whole. So if we have any questions or concerns at that point, we might go back and ask some questions.
(40:48):
2If not, we'll provide the entity with some feedback on the investigation that we hope will help them in future matters.
1Is there anything that entities should know before commencing an investigation?
2Yeah. Look, receiving a reportable allegation and having to investigate it can be pretty stressful. There's a lot to think about, and there can be a lot of pressure to get things resolved quickly, particularly if you've got an employee that's been stood down or parents who are agitating for an outcome. So what I would encourage entities to do is to not let that pressure propel them into action before they've had the chance to stop and plan out the process that they're going to take.
(41:23):
2So before you start investigating, you're going to want to make a really clear plan. What information do you need to get? Who is going to get that information? When will you speak to the employee about the allegations and things like that? So, for example, when it comes to gathering evidence, identify where you're going to get the information from, you know, is the child of an age that you could actually ask them some questions?
(41:46):
2Were there witnesses that you could speak to? Is there CCTV footage to police or have information that you could request from them to help your investigation? You need to think through how to ensure procedural fairness for the employee, and how and when to communicate with the parents of the alleged victim. So there are a lot of things to think through.
(42:09):
2We have a fact sheet on planning investigations.
1I was going to ask because I'm not good. I run a good childcare center. I'm a good educator. Something's happened. Now I have to investigate something. How do I find out how to investigate?
2Yeah, yeah, well, you need guidance, don't you? Because it's not. It's not your bread and butter in that situation. And reportable conduct can be complex. And so we have, we have fact sheets available on our website that step you through a number of these things. And as Vanessa has already alluded to, you can always call us and get specific advice on a case.
(42:42):
1And I think you have a learning as well.
2We do. We have, e-learning available on our website. So there's a series of seven e-learning modules on responding to reportable allegations. Module one gives detailed guidance about child protection reporting obligations. So that's particularly relevant to what we're talking about today. But I do want to underline that perhaps the most key resource is our reportable conduct inquiries line.
(43:07):
2So that's a dedicated inquiries line. It's staffed by members of the reportable conduct team. It's open every day between 9 and 4. And we're always happy to receive those calls and give advice. We know the difference it can make in being able to talk through a matter with someone sooner rather than later. Particularly if you're dealing with an allegation that could be a criminal offense or an allegation that has any kind of complexity to it.
(43:34):
2Calling us in those early stages can help you start on the right track and then have confidence in the direction you're going in. So if you only take one message away from me today, that's the one I'd want it to be. Call us. You know, if you're unsure about whether something needs to be reported, call the inquiry line.
2We can give you advice.
1That does seem to be the key, doesn't it? Because there has been some talk about over reporting. But I think if they can pick the phone up and talk to you and then I can find out instantly whether that's something that should be reported or something that needs to be handled internally. But is not it not likely to be a reportable conduct allegation?
(44:09):
2Yeah, that's right. And look, it's true that the early childhood sector does have a higher a much higher rate of notifying matters that don't need to be notified to our office and other sectors. And there's probably a few things behind that, one of which is a very low tolerance in the sector for any kind of mistreatment of children, which is a very positive thing.
2But it does point to the need for ongoing education and, you know, highlights the need for us to be available to provide that support, and to give that guidance.
(44:37):
1So, Steph, what should, people in the sector be mindful of before reporting to report, conduct.
2Sure. So before reporting to us, I'd suggest two things. First, get all the details you can about what's been alleged. So sometimes and allegations made and there's just not enough information to know whether it's reportable. Let's say an educator, tells their nominated supervisor that they saw another educator dragging a child across the room. The first thing the nominated supervisor is going to need to do is clarify that information.
(45:10):
2What do they mean by dragging? Ask them to spell out exactly what they saw, you know, with a child's feet on the ground, or was their body literally being dragged across the floor by one? What was the level of force that was used? Was the child injured? All those kinds of details are going to help inform whether it needs to be reported to us.
2And one of the things I do want to say is, although there is a seven business day time frame for notifying reportable allegations, that time frame doesn't kick in until it's clear that the allegation is reportable. So if a vague allegation is made, we don't want centers to panic and just rush to notify us if they can. Feel free to take the time they need to actually ask some questions, clarify the information, and then make the decision about whether to notify.
(45:54):
2And the second thing I would say is, once you have that extra detail that you need, have a look at the fact sheet on our website on identifying reportable allegations. If you're confident that the allegation doesn't meet the definition for any of the categories, just document that decision. And the reason for it. And as I said, if you're not sure, just call us.
(46:15):
2And we can give you that advice.
1Say something's happened in the center and a child has been harmed in some way, and it's a reportable allegation. At what point do you let, that child's parents know? How do you manage the openness of the investigation, not just at the allegation stage, but, when a finding is made? And what's the process of informing people?
(46:40):
2Well, our expectation would be that, parents would be informed, as soon as an incident occurs that involves their child. I suppose there could be some exceptions to that. If the allegation involves a serious criminal offense or something. So in a situation like that, the first call would be to the police. And, you and you would also take advice from police then about, the issue of what to say to the parents and how much to say.
(47:10):
2Beyond that, though, in a reportable conduct investigation, the legislation does make clear what information entities must provide to the alleged victim or the parents of the alleged victim. Unless it's not in the public interest to provide that information. So essentially, in the ordinary course, and when you're dealing with very young children, the center must let the parents know about the progress of the investigation and the findings that are made in that investigation.
(47:41):
2And the outcome. So they are actually aware of what's happened to the report. And what the outcome of that investigation was.
1Pretty have you been involved in an investigation and if so, how did you manage that, that, sharing of information where it was necessary, but also protecting, the confidentiality of people as well, is that it's a tricky, thing to navigate. But how do you go about that?
(48:08):
3Thankfully, I have not seen that lost handedly, but we do have that in, policies and procedures. If that to happen. Let's take the example of an educator being involved in this. We have a process of, obviously we have to let the families know, but that there's an investig ongoing investigation. Parents are informed about the incident.
(48:33):
3We don't make a decision there. And then because we need to investigate exactly how, and what happened. So you need to have the facts before obviously talking to, the right people, to make sure that we are not, any steps, not being missed, in this process, whether, that would be, immediate stepping down of an educator while the investigation is on or, any other, any other, procedures would be followed.
(49:03):
3So based on the circumstance, this will be the this will occur. If it is reportable, obviously, then we will follow the, the procedures.
1Vanessa, have you had to handle that information sharing?
2Unfortunately, yes. And I think that, one of the key things that we always are mindful of is that it is always sensitive information, particularly to a parent, when it's something that's happened to their child. So being open and transparent, I think for us, what's worked in the past is making sure that we've told them, they're not always the first point of call.
(49:39):
2As mentioned, we you know, sometimes the police may need to be involved, but as soon as we are able to tell them, making sure that we've let them know what's happened, we may not always have the facts at the time as well. So making sure that we've let them know that an incident has occurred where we believe they may have been in, in an appropriate interaction involving their child, making sure that we've let them know what our next steps are and when we're going to get back to them with further information.
(50:05):
2I think that's always key to a family, to let them know what's happening next, and that we will come back to them as soon as we have more information. That's allowed us to take the time to get all the facts, investigate what we need to, and appropriately share the information with the family.
1And I guess that means sticking with those commitments as well. And if you can't meet them, being proactive in letting people know why you haven't been able to meet.
(50:29):
2Absolutely. Yeah. And then that's going to be really unsettling for a parent. If we're not getting back to them until we have the facts. So if we don't have them in the time that we've promised, we'll call to let them know. Look, this is where we're up to. We still don't have this. So if you can give me a few more days, I'll come back to you and keep giving you an update as they come.
(50:49):
2Yeah.
1Steph, last question for you. You've heard these two educators speak passionately and with an amazing amount of insight into the nature of reporting as from a regulator point of view, how do you feel listening to them speak?
2Well, it's so encouraging, isn't it, to hear about the sorts of systems that are in place, at the coalface, because I'm sitting in an office every day, I'm very far away from that and often hearing about the things that go wrong. It's so it's so encouraging to hear about the kind, the, the very careful ways that these issues have been thought through, the ways that, you know, cultures of reporting are being supported.
(51:33):
2We want to do everything we can in the Reportable Conduct Directorate to be, support centers in working in that way, as has been said many times today, we're all human. People make mistakes. Things happen. But what's important is how we respond and the systems that are in place for responding. And so we very much want to work with, the sector to be supporting them in meeting their obligations, to be supporting them in, you know, making changes to systems if, if an allegation comes up and it highlights a gap or a problem or something that's not previously been addressed, you know, reportable allegations coming up can actually often be
(52:15):
2a wonderful opportunity to reflect on things and strengthen the systems that are in place, for keeping children safe.
1Yeah. And I think the key message that I've heard here today is if you see something, say something, and put children first. Thanks, Vanessa. Pretty and Stephanie, it's been a great session today. I've really enjoyed listening to you all, and I hope the listeners have as well. Listeners, you can go online any time to the office of the Children's Guardian website, and access free tools and resources to help children be safe by clicking the training and resources tab.
(52:50):
1You can also learn more about the Reportable Conduct Scheme. The link is in the show notes for this episode. Do you want to know how well you're doing with applying the standards? Why not try the chart safe self-assessment from the OCG managers and leaders, as well as employees of volunteers, can spend just 30 minutes answering a few basic questions and then be sent a tailored response showing what they're doing well.
(53:15):
1Any areas of improvement, and how they can access resources to help them. Don't forget that the child safe self-assessment and all the OCG training resources, including the Safe Series Protected Behaviors program for 2 to 6 year olds, are completely free. All the resources we've discussed in this episode are in the show. Notes. My name is Simon Luckhurst. Thanks for listening.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com