February 25, 2024 • 50 mins
Policy and Practice in Focus: an ECEC child safe podcast miniseries
Episode 1: The Child Safe Scheme in a ECEC context
Early Childhood Educators face unique challenges when applying the Child Safe Scheme. In this podcast Simon Luckhurst talks to two early childhood professionals and an Office of the Children’s Guardian compliance officer to answer some common questions.
About this episode:
This episode kicks off a short series produced by the Office of the Children's Guardian and funded by the NSW Department of Education, the NSW regulatory authority for early education and care as part of their Safety and Quality Practice program.
The NSW Child Safe Scheme means child-related organisations (including those involved in Early Childhood Education and Outside School Hours Care) must be able to demonstrate their commitment to child safety by employing the ten Child Safe Standards handed down by the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse.
If organisations and their staff and volunteers are applying the Child Safe Standards, children are safer from harm and abuse. While many organisations understand what it means to keep children safe – and are also meeting the requirements under their National Quality Framework obligations – the Child Safe Scheme is designed to ensure all aspects of child safety are maintained and improved.
In this podcast Simon Luckhurst talks to two early childhood professionals and an OCG compliance officer to find out more about the scheme in the Early Childhood Education context.
About our speakers:
Meg Mendham, previous CEO of Community Connections Solutions Australia and also a board member, advisor and executive with over thirty years’ experience in the Early Childhood sector, including as an educator.
Angela Gillespie, a Senior Manager the Blue Mountains-based Connect Children and Families organisation, and winner of the 2023 Early Childhood Australia Barbara Creaser Champion Award.
Brittany Taylor, a Child Safe Officer in the Compliance Team at the Office of the Children’s Guardian.
This episode was recorded and edited on Gadigal land. The NSW Department of Education and the NSW Office of the Children’s Guardian recognise that the land we work and live on always was and always will be Aboriginal land, and we pay our respects to Elders past and present.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Office of the Children’s Guardian resources page - https://ocg.nsw.gov.au/our-resources
OCG Child Safe Self-Assessment - https://cssa.ocg.nsw.gov.au
OCG Child Safe eLearning - https://ocg.nsw.gov.au/training-and-resources/elearning
Coffee Conversations - https://ccsa.org.au/learn-with-us/professional-dev/coffee-connecting-and-conversations/
If you are looking for support on how to improve your child safe practices, or to speak to a child safe officer, contact childsafe@ocg.nsw.gov.au
Have a concern or a complaint about a child-related organisation? You can contact us via this form - https://ocg.nsw.gov.au/contact-us or call us on (02) 8219 3600
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
1Hi and welcome to this podcast from the office of the Children's Guardian. Funded by the New South Wales Department of Education under its Safety and Quality Practice Program. Today we'll be looking at the New South Wales Child Safe Scheme in the context of early childhood education. For listeners who aren't aware of it. The New South Wales Government introduced the Child Safe Scheme in February 2022.
(00:25):
1The scheme means organizations must be able to demonstrate their commitment to child safety by employing the ten child safe standards handed down by the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse. If organizations and workers and volunteers are applying the child safe standards, children are safer from harm and abuse. While many organizations understand what it means to keep children safe and also meeting many requirements under the National Quality Framework obligations, the scheme is designed to ensure all aspects of child safety are maintained and improved.
(01:03):
1We've got a great panel today to explore what this means for early childhood education organizations and educators. Our guests today are Meg Mendham, the CEO of Community Connection Solutions Australia and also board member, advisor and executive. With over 30 years experience in the early childhood sector, including as an educator, Angela Gillespie, a senior manager of the Blue Mountain Space Connect Children and Families Organization, Angela was the winner of the 2023 Early Childhood Australia Barbara Chris, a Champion Award.
(01:40):
1Our third guest is Brittany Taylor, a child safe officer in the compliance team at the office of the Children's Guardian. So makes us question for you. What do you see as the benefits of the child safe scheme, and how do you think it helps to keep children safe?
2Simon. The child safe scheme really brings child safety to the forefront for everyone. In early childhood, we're very familiar with child safety standards, child protection processes and procedures. But the child safe scheme really actually broadens responsibility across community, across lots of organizations. It doesn't matter what environment you're working with children. We should be all ensuring that children are safe.
(02:20):
1Is that because it uses the standards as a as a basis?
2Applying the standards strongly aligns people's expectations around child safe behavior and also child safe interactions and working with children.
1Angela, what do you think at the child safety standards? How do you think they work to keep children in early education safer?
(02:40):
3Yeah, I think building off Meg has said it. It is around seeing child safety as a governance obligation. And and it's around building that culture within your organization that children's safety and wellbeing is at the forefront in a holistic, holistic sense. Rather when when we've previously looked at it as child protection, it's allowing that to be a much bigger piece where we're understanding all aspects of children's safety and they will being and how we actually develop that in our teams and build capacity so that we can have children, being as safe as possible.
(03:12):
1And so I'm sure everyone working in early childhood education is passionate about keeping children safe. Anyway, so beyond regulation and compliance, do you think the standards really dovetail in with that desire for educators to keep children safe?
3Yeah, I think it does. And I think it contextualizes that it's more than just around what educators may have previously seen as safety, but is around how do we empower children to understand their own rights, within a space and also around the competencies of children to manage and take safe risks? It gives educators those tools as well as a framework to reflect critically on those aspects.
(03:50):
1A dog we talk about, we talk about child protection, but we also talk about child safe. And sometimes we say that child safe is, you know, what happens to keep children safe. Child protection is often what happens after children aren't safe. Do you say the standards working within both those kind of frameworks?
3I do think obviously there's there's some overlap there. But for me the biggest change is around that proactivity for organizations. So rather than as critically responding to something that's happened, and it being about reporting and notifying it is around how do we introduce risk management strategies to reduce chances that children will be in an unsafe circumstance?
(04:27):
1So make how do you ensure the staff of your member organizations are familiar with the child safe standards?
2The way that we work with our member organizations is across all areas of governance and management, and our vision is really around best practice in governance and management. In early childhood. And the focus of, working with the child safety standards is ensuring that all staff or management committee and all educators and people in leadership roles actually understand what a child safe environment looks like.
(04:58):
2They also understand what their responsibility is as as an individual and also what they understand. The expectations of other people will be about providing a safe environment.
1You as as early childhood educators and organizations, you've got, obligations both under the Child Safe scheme and under the NQF. Do you see both things working together, or is this, you know, yet more work for time for educators.
(05:26):
2When the child safe principles with this introduced, you know, a few years ago early childhood really looked at this is something that, certainly provided opportunity for improvement, but built on practices that they already have under the national quality framework. We don't see that they compete with each other. We rather see that there's a complement there. And I think the child safe standards allow for a broader conversation where educators can talk more broadly around what child safe environments look like with families and community and with other, visitors to an early childhood center.
(06:02):
2So I don't think that there is a is a competition there or climate to do additional work. I think there's a really strong alignment.
1Maybe you're just able to speak a bit more to that. And in the way of acknowledging that a lot of educators are time poor and so that it's the system is designed to support them rather than to, make it harder for them.
(06:25):
2Some in the way that educators are able to engage with the tin standards, really align with their work under the National Quality Framework, we acknowledge that there is an additional responsibility and educators do need to take on, extra work around learning the standards in aligning them with national quality framework. And I guess the ICG and other resources that are available online really support their learning and in fact, accelerate and, extend the knowledge around what that looks like now.
(06:57):
2And if that wasn't there, I think there would be challenges in how they bring themselves up to speed on the tin standards, as well as being able to talk about them with other educators and families.
1Yeah. And I mean, I guess I'm hearing you say that there's an acknowledgment that a lot of educators are time poor, but the standards and the inquiry for really sort of hopefully we'll work together and make it easier for people rather than make it more difficult for them.
(07:22):
2Indeed. And that that has been our experience so far for all educators, in all services that have really embraced the child safe standards, that they do see these things working together, quite complementary.
1So speaking of people having conflicting priorities, how do you provide, training for your staff on that child safe scheme obligations and, and their understanding of the standards?
(07:44):
3Yeah. For us it it actually starts at recruitment. So, we will begin to kind of assess what a candidate's understanding is of the child size standards throughout that recruitment process and have targeted questions, within that process as well. And then it moves on to induction. So, we'll have staff complete mandatory modules in the child safe standards.
(08:05):
3We've got a digital system that helps us, monitor those acknowledgments as well as the standard mandatory reporting modules. Every staff member, has a organizational induction with, with me. And I talk about how the child safe standards fit into our direction as an organization and where that fits in within maybe aspects that that staff member doesn't see within their own particular program, so that they can see our overarching commitment to that.
(08:30):
3Also, in that first initial induction phase is where we'll go through the code of conduct that we've developed in relation to the child safe standards. Staff have the time to review that, ask any questions before they sign off on that, and that's another area where we may say there might be some extra capacity that we need to address.
3If we've got candidates that have come through without the right understandings. We do have a standing, agenda, items to discuss child safety, child protection and individual children. All our teams have monthly team meetings, and that's really important for us because it does open up that space where we might have informal opportunities of things that have been on staff members minds, where we can then dive into what does that mean when we're viewing things through that child safe standard lens.
(09:13):
3So when we and we will revisit them. So, a lot of those initial modules that people do during the induction will be renewed over a one year or two year process so that they keep going back to them and reflecting on them, but also within our other processes that we're doing things like identifying key practices for self-assessment, lots of our practices around child safety, and the child size standards are raised within those particular processes as well.
(09:38):
3So for us, the child safe standards, a very much woven into much of the work that we are already doing. And so we do have some targeted areas where we build professional learning on. But it is a thread that we see happen through all of our work in our programs.
1And that kind of answers. My next question, which was, it sounds like, you know, it's great you've got dove training in support, really embedded in services, by the sound of it. How do you manage sort of the conflict of interest between ongoing training requirements and duties of work on the floor?
(10:11):
3Yeah, I mean, we're very fortunate to be a not for profit organization. So we know that our teams are our biggest asset and their capacity and what they add to our programs, a far greater than any other resource that we can bring in, to a service. So we actually prioritized that. Staff have dedicated time off the floor to complete training.
3And and it is around looking for those opportunities of how do you do that and where does that fit into the scheme of where the direction that your program is moving into in terms of quality improvement and being able to prioritize it?
(10:43):
1Brittany, can you tell us a little bit about, what's a monitoring assessment?
4So a monitoring assessment is a process where we assess how an organization is complying with the ten child safe standards. And to do this we look at an organization's policies and procedures. So their documentation and we also conduct a monitoring assessment interview which is a conversation with the organization to understand how the implementing the ten child safe standards in their daily practices, and also any challenges that they might have with implementing the standards as well.
(11:15):
4At the end of the monitoring assessment process will be issuing a monitoring assessment report, and that will outline our findings of how the organization is implementing the standards. And it may also contain some guidelines or some recommendations for how an organization can improve. Now, if we do issue recommendations, it's a bit more of a formal process. So under the legislation, an organization will be required to respond to these recommendations.
(11:42):
4And we'll be giving a reasonable timeframe for this to occur as well. We do also have enforcement measures under the legislation that we can use, however, will only be using these if an organization is unwilling to engage in the process with us, or if we identify a significant risk of harm to children.
1Now, the ICJ does have the capacity to, undertake enforcement action that include fines and things like that. What's the preferred, way for the ICJ to proceed? You like going straight to. Fine. So what do you do instead?
(12:13):
4Well, absolutely not. We do not like going straight to fines. So we're definitely taking a more capability building approach to compliance. And that means that we're working with organizations to understand the challenges that they might have, and how they can overcome those to successfully implement the ten child safe standards.
1And in terms of capability support, do you you know, you say, do you want to, you know, you might need to develop this policy a bit further or do you want to access, say, Jane's e-learning or here's some other I mean, how do you go about capabilities, support in that, in that space?
(12:44):
4Absolutely. So it could include anything you've just mentioned, Simon. So we could suggest that they need to write a specific policy and implemented in their organization, make changes to policies. It could involve us recommending that they distribute policies to staff, or undertake specific practices. But we also provide, you know, monitoring, assessment, report links to resources from the ICJ website.
(13:08):
4So links to e-learning, links to the fantastic handbooks and resources. That the team have created. So organizations are very supportive throughout the process. And we also check in regularly with organizations throughout the process as well to ensure that they're comfortable with the monitoring assessment process and that they don't have any questions.
1And how do you like to, physically go out and physically knock on people's doors? You're ringing people up, you're organizing online meetings. How do how does that process happen?
(13:35):
4It really does depend. So at the start of the process, organizations can expect a phone call from us, or an email, scheduling that phone call. And then when we do conduct a monitoring assessment interview, we generally try to do that face to face at the organization's premises. And this gives us an opportunity to see how child safe practices are being implemented on a day to day basis.
(13:55):
4So we do like to do a walkthrough of the service and just see, how things are going, see how educators are interacting with children and see the physical environment of the space.
1And do you look out for any one particular standard, for example, in particular, is there something that you're you're really honing in on those? Are you looking at things in general?
4It really does depend. So the standards that we select for assessment will depend on our pre-assessment research of an organization. So it could depend on if we receive a specific complaint or if we identify something, through looking at an organization's website or through looking at information that we do hold it that Osagie, as to what standards will select for assessment, I will say we do view standard one as being very important, as we think that good governance and good leadership are really essential to embedding that child safe culture in an organization.
(14:43):
4So this is a standard we do regularly look at for organizations.
1Angela, are there any standards in particular that you think support the philosophy of your organization?
3Well, I would say all of them support our philosophy. What probably speaks to us, in a values perspective is, is standard to around empowering children. So we have a core value of celebrating every child, as well as tuning in and connecting, as values that are across our organization. And so that's really important for us that, as an organization, we, we celebrate individual children, no matter their background, their competencies, who they are.
(15:24):
3But that will so our teams know that to give the space to tune in and connect with children. And I think for us that's very important into how children are empowered to have their own agency, to speak up about matters that, are important to them.
1And, you know, standard too, is about empowerment. Obviously, the the age of the cohort that you work with, you know, that's pretty young to be giving them a whole lot of decision making. But you've telling us a nice story before about how one school that you work with supports children. And I guess it empowers them in the way that it does set you want to do you want to tell us what they do?
(15:55):
3Yeah. So, yeah, I was just kind of speaking about how one of our programs in particular, but it's not unique to to one program, really assesses the possibilities in their spaces. So for this particular site, they have one large classroom and one smaller classroom. So by being able to tune in and connect with children, the staff there are very attuned to when children may need to be in a smaller group and be able to kind of regulate with the smaller group of people, rather than being part of the main group, and children are able to request when they want to do this.
(16:25):
3Or it may be that educators, responding to cues that are provided by children and in particular, that approach was used, with a child that was showing anxiety at pick up time as, as he was watching other parents arrive to collect their children and, and the staff could notice that his anxiety was escalating as more and more children were collected.
(16:46):
3So they developed a strategy for that child to kind of move into that smaller space from around 2 p.m., where he selected his own group of peers that that came and played with him and then just listened, an area that was a significantly anxious period for him. So it is around staff being able to know that they can tune in and respond, in innovative ways, to children's needs.
(17:07):
3And I think that's really important. And it's a factor that I think is something we need to promote within child safe standards as well.
1And I guess if something, anything was troubling that child in a small environment like that, they'd be much more able to to talk about it, maybe feel more comfortable to talk about it than they would in a, in a, in a space with a lot of other children.
3Yeah, absolutely. It is around how do we hone those strategies that really build connection and safety and security for children, and that they are connecting with familiar adults who they've got those preexisting relationships with? We know that's where their true feedback from children, who are in a younger age group is going to come about programs. And it gives that opportunity for educators to really be able to address what makes children feel safe and comfortable and happy, in our programs.
(17:55):
1And if we were to look at standard one, which is the standard on leadership and governance beyond, as you've done winning awards, how do your organization's leaders and managers demonstrate, sort of compliance and following the values of standard one?
3Yeah, for us, it really comes back to the heart of, children being viewed as equal citizens with rights. And that's something that all our leaders, very consistently reflect on with teens and it's one of those areas that we do kind of parse and say, if this was an adult in this situation, would this be an appropriate response?
(18:26):
3And so that's a lens that is very much mandatory for one of our leaders is, is to view children as citizens with equal rights. And so they'll go through, professional learning that helps build their understandings of that. We also still go back to what our teams image of children is, and address any things that might be coming out of that around kind of constructs, prejudices and bias as well.
(18:50):
3We've got robust policies and procedures in place and can be quite systematic. Also around the governance. We've really focused on our recording of safeguarding concerns as well, being very transparent. So we now have an online system that allows for even the slightest concern to be recorded by any staff member through using QR codes that then pings up, to only certain managers.
(19:15):
3So that decision making on the next step is not left up to one person alone to think, is this something we need to pursue further? So we've got lots of things in place that are around the requirements of our leaders. To really demonstrate that commitment to, child safety standards.
1So hey, innovation. Fantastic. Can you just break down a little bit about how those QR codes work so educators get their phones out and they're instantly takes them somewhere.
(19:40):
3So they don't use their own phone? Because that's one of our child protection measures. Is that when I'm about to.
1Have note that Brittany. Yeah.
3So they so we don't allow personal phones, to be in classrooms. But we do have, organizational iPads that are used for various purposes. So we have QR codes on the wall that leads, our staff to a variety of forms that come through, a system that we use called Foley art, which for us, it works really well because we can actually, manipulate those forms for whatever purpose we need them, to be manipulated form.
(20:13):
3So it will open up a form for them. They will write down their concern about that particular child. It will then ask if they think that child is at risk of harm. If they say yes or unsure, directs them to the mandatory reporting tray to child story. And then they're asked to attach a PDF of that image. If they if that's what it's requested that they do, I then as a senior manager, get an alert that that report has been made by a team member.
(20:39):
3And if there were any conflicts that that staff member had with me, seeing that we've got other avenues where they could have that form put through a different way, but it just means then that all review it, and it might be that staff member only knows that piece of the puzzle about that particular child. I may be aware of other pieces that are going on for that child's life.
3And as well as there may be things that I've got the experience to know, that that may be a sign of something more significant that, less experienced, staff member, may not have that view yet. So, it works really well for us. We also use that to kind of review of are we underreporting on issues that might be happening?
(21:15):
3And we'll relay that with, statistics and kind of go, well, if we know this is the prevalence of things that are going on in our community, and this is the amount that we've got reporting on, is that now an area that we need to focus on talking with our teams about just to make sure that our reporting is matching.
3And and it was something when I first came into the sector, we were having, exercise books hidden in filing cabinets to make notes on children that maybe no one else ever saw, that those particular notes. So it is around, addressing the lack of transparency, I think, that we've had with things that may not be a clear indicator that something's happening for a child, but they are those little things that tell you as an adult that knows that child well, that something is off in this situation at the moment.
(22:00):
1And does that apply to other adults and other educators as well? Because I know that, you know, you might see someone do something very minor, but someone else is also seeing something very minor, and someone else is saying something also minor. But put them together and you can start to have a concerning pattern of behavior. Is that sort of, reporting encouraged or so?
3Yeah. So and it does allow for all kind of aspects of concern. So if they had a concern about the way someone was interacting within one of our spaces, they'd be able to use that form to report on that as well, so that we may have gotten a few reports of, of, even if it was a casual educated that is not as involved in some of our processes.
(22:37):
3And so, yeah, it does pull all of those pictures together. It's got a search function that I can search for that particular child's name and see any report that someone has lodged, and it will go across our system. So there's been any significant notifiable incidences in regards to accidents and injuries. It'll also pull that up. So we're able to pull together a much bigger view of some data that's been recorded on that particular child.
(23:02):
1How I mean, how has your system go about pulling together a picture of what may turn out to be an unsafe person? How how do those little bits of the jigsaw puzzle get fitted together?
3Yeah. So my role is to review those reports. And so it will be me kind of looking at going. There's a few concerns here about someone, and then we would undertake an internal investigation to see if there's more here to substantiate anything. And then we follow the various notification, processes and get advice for where we go to next.
(23:34):
3With that, once we've started to build a bigger picture of what might be happening.
1Now, Meg, we've we've, we've we got onto this topic by looking at sort of the standards in general and sort of how, people may have a particular resonance to one or the other. Is there a standard or standards that speak to your personal feelings about child safety, or would you support all of them as well?
(23:55):
2Simon, I think, are all ten a really important. And on the back of Angela's response, you know, certainly number two around empowering the child is really important. But to expand on the standards. So we're not covering the same information. I'm a community developer at heart. So standard number three with families in communities that are informed in and involved I think is really important because that expands that, engagement with the standards beyond the walls, what I call beyond the gaze of the early childhood service.
(24:27):
2We actually want child standards and best practice to be embedded in community in all environments with children. So number three is really, really important to my heart when we're talking about community. And number one, from an organizational point of view, is fundamentally what Ccé is about. And child safe, safety is embedded in organizational leadership, governance and culture.
(24:50):
2That is where we support the management committee, the leaders in management of the service, and also, the families to understand that this needs to be embedded in everyday practice, in conversations, in policies and procedures. But most importantly, it's something that builds in their culture every day.
1It's interesting that you both pick standards two and three because, traditionally the some of the ones that organization struggle with the most is, I mean, how do you support organizations to understand their commitments under, standard three? How do you how do you how do you get families and communities involved?
(25:26):
2I think what's most important for an early childhood service is to understand that families, have have their rights and responsibilities upheld in the environment. I think we should break down those barriers of they've entered our world into an early childhood service rather, this is part of the community. So we actually want to be engaged and committed to uplifting people's knowledge around child safe standards so that when families, engaging in sporting environments or church groups or other social activities, that they can actually be, more heightened and aware around what child safe principles should be wherever children are.
(26:08):
2It's not just within the early childhood service. So actually empowering educators to be able to talk to families about what child safe standards are about and not seeing it as a fear factor, rather that it's a social enterprise, that is actually delivered back to community.
1And is that the most effective way that you found to to, upskill, I guess, families and communities, just direct communication from educators or do you do other things? Do you do, videos, for example, or fliers or how do you communicate with those stakeholders?
(26:40):
2When we're working with the organizations, we want them to really think about the best way of how they engage with community. We want to make sure that it's culturally sensitive, culturally safe, and appropriate. It's also around getting, educators that might attend fairs or actually, you know, a fundraising event to be actually actually confident to talk about the child safety standards.
(27:05):
2And if that's happening within the service, where there's a strong commitment and there's a safe space to raise conversations and concerns, there are opportunities, then that confidence actually is going to come out in community when educators are actually out there working. And that really needs to start from, the governance and management responsibilities of the leaders in the organization.
(27:26):
2It should be embedded in the strategic plan right through to their policies and procedures. And as Angela has talked about today, the recruitment of staff, but also within the enrollment process of engaging with, with families through an enrollment interview at the end of the start of the.
1That seems like a good place to come to you. Brittany, were talking about, sort of what underpins an organization's understanding of the standards and child safety. A lot of organizations have something like a statement of commitment to child safety. How important is it for organization to have something like that?
(28:01):
4Brittany, I'd say it's very important. As you said, it's the document that underpins the organization's commitment to child safety and how they plan to enact the ten child safety standards. I'd say what's also important is how they distribute that information. So is the statement of commitment on the organization's website. Is it displayed in the service? Is it given to parents?
(28:21):
4Is that information communicated to children in child friendly ways? I think it's all well and good to have the document. It's very important document, but it's also about how you distribute that information as well.
1And make how do you support organizations to, have a statement of claim and more than that, to employ it, to use it to make sure it's not some bit of paper sitting on a shelf, but is actually something that that people are aware of and apply.
(28:47):
2I think that's a really fundamental, issue that we have in early childhood services coming back to our time pool. You know, exercise before where how do services develop something? How do they, or consult with families and management committees and educators and community? And I guess this is where the code of conduct that has been developed fundamentally drives part of that work for them already.
(29:15):
2But it still needs to be organic, and it's that engagement needs to come from within the service. So we really work with the management committee and the directors to understand the language behind the child safety standards, to understand what the commitment is, that they're actually making, but to review and monitor and assess that commitment regularly. We're very familiar with reflective practice in early childhood under the National Quality Framework in the early learning framework.
(29:42):
2But we really need to see this across all areas of responsibility, whether it be work, health and safety or a code of conduct for the child safety standards. I think language is really powerful. And then that actually, is responded to with behavior and processes that actually in organizations on a daily basis.
(30:02):
1And is that something also that you can engage with families and communities and get them involved as well?
2Indeed. And I guess, you know, as Brittany has alluded to, a true commitment to a code of conduct should include all stakeholders. It's not a document that should only sit with the management committee or the approved provider, or the leadership team. It really needs to be organically grown, from elders within the community and of the people that have that commitment to children being safe, whatever environment that they're in.
(30:32):
2So I think that that consultation process and that, I guess building of words and sentences and then to a whole code of conduct is really important and is a whole of organization, responsibility.
1And applying that, that, that kind of kind of make making sure it's lived. Angela, speaking of applying things, policies, everyone has policies for this and that. It's really important in the environments we're talking about that those policies applied. How does your organization or how do you support organizations to not just have policies, not just have good policies, but apply those policies and put them into everyday practice?
(31:09):
3Yeah, absolutely. So for us, we have a pretty robust process of making sure that all staff have read and acknowledge policies and procedures. And then we'll regularly revisit them. So, it is around kind of referring staff to what is the appropriate policy that they should be following. Also, if we're ever investigating any particular concerns or incidents, it is the testing of that policy.
(31:37):
3And was it clear enough, to give the staff the appropriate guidance? And I think as, an organization providing governance, to our programs, you know, we've got to be open to the accountability that maybe that policy wasn't strong enough. And take the feedback, on how we need to maybe tighten, some of the wording or the procedures within that, within that up.
(31:59):
3In regards to the child side scheme, we actually undertook the self-assessment process with, a group of staff who, were able to express interest, in being part of a working group. And that gave us a really diverse, slice, of our workforce, because we've quite diverse programs, where we're not only center based, but we've got community based programs as well.
(32:20):
1I'll just interrupt you. There was at the OCG chance at self-assessment just so much. Yes.
3Yes, yes, so many self-assessment start.
1If you're not aware, the ICG has a child sized self-assessment tool which is available for free from our website. I'll talk more about that towards the end of the part. But yeah, sorry to interrupt.
3That's okay. Yeah. So, we undertook that process, which was really great to highlight the work that we were already doing, which I think fits to to the question around time management because there is a lot of dovetailing, that that can happen with the obligations under child safe standards and work, I think, particularly in early childhood education, where we've had a pretty strong regulatory, and legal framework for quite, quite a long amount of time.
(33:02):
3So a lot of those strategies and practices are actually already there, and it can confirm for services, the work that's already being done. And then it gave us, also the insight into where improvements, needed to be made. And, and how we actually articulated different things because, I know with child centered reporting, the original wording of that, felt quite intimidating for some of our staff when you're talking about children from six weeks old, what does that mean?
(33:31):
3And then it was around being able to actually look at the strategies that we use, using preexisting, resources. So we've used the safe series, for quite a long time, the OCG safe series, to help children understand about their rights for, for child protection and how they can speak up for themselves. So it was that work, to kind of say, well, what if we already got in place?
(33:53):
3Where do we need to improve? And do we need to look at some of the work that we're already doing differently.
1Without revealing too many secrets? Is there something that you surprised? You were surprised to find that people thought they were doing really well at, or something that that you thought people would be doing well? In fact, they didn't think.
3I think what what became apparent to us, things that had been in policies for a long time, that we thought they had been accepted as standard practice. That process highlighted for people who felt that their works out a little bit outside of of the norm of our work, hadn't applied those particular practices, to what they were doing.
(34:30):
3So it did for us really highlight the need of how do we talk with our teams in face to face settings, to really dig into things that we may have taken for granted. And that often with policies, people will look at things and go, oh, that doesn't really apply to my work. So how do we make that really specific and have those policies, articulate in enough detail when people might be doing work that's a little bit outside of the norm, which often happens, within our sector as we innovate.
(34:58):
1Another thing that people want to, embed, I guess, in their day to day practices is risk management. And the standard that speaks to risk management, standard eight, it plays a huge part in keeping children and organizations safe. It has two parts, has physical and online. And so I'm going to ask you, how does your organization assess its, safety to children in physical spaces?
(35:24):
3Yeah. So we've put a lot of focus, into our staff building capacity to understand robust risk assessment, and how they can apply, a risk benefit lens to what we're doing with children. So we've got, also through our folio system, a risk assessment tool, where educators and teams can look at particular activities that they might be doing and apply, risk assessment to that, to be able to make a decision about what we need to do and also have clear mitigations in place.
(35:55):
3Because for us, it's really not that we won't allow a particular activity to go ahead, but that we've got the appropriate mitigations that will ensure that children are safe, during that activity. And then we have probably a lot of standard things that most, providers have where we've got daily checks of environments to ensure, to ensure that safety, is, is upheld.
(36:18):
3We think about the equipment that we select, that it's appropriate and fit for purpose. And, and how we can actually upskill our staff to assess that because, I think we can have lots of things seen on social media and things like that where, actually all of the context of that particular equipment or set up being used, educators don't realize, behind that.
(36:42):
3And then, really it is around, just understanding what is an appropriate risk, to have in place for children. We have a two person policy at connect, so no one is ever left, alone. With children. I think that's that's really vital to be, one it helps people be accountable for their decision making that's going on.
(37:03):
3But also it minimizes those risks to children and educators.
1How does that risk management tool that you're talking about interact with sort of spontaneous teachable moments? I guess.
3Yeah. So we have our teams actually do a full environment risk assessment. So they will risk assess the entire outdoor yard. So that may be looking at the, dry creek bed and water pump and really think about all of those mitigations that we need in if children are engaging in those activities. And being able to assess what's high risk, what's low risk, what's high supervision, what's low supervision, so that then actually the knowledge around specific activities as they unfold, is actually in place, rather than doing an individual risk assessment, for each separate activity, looking at the environment, and, and what should be happening every day so that children can,
(37:53):
3really explore their curiosities. And educators have that repertoire of strategies, to be able to ensure safety.
1Make online safety is still something emerging for many of the children and the age group that we're talking about. And, you know, many of them are still to be young, to be accessing devices. However, most services are now using online platforms to communicate with families and showcasing images of children on social media. So how can services go about, mitigating the risk to, to children in the online environment?
(38:24):
2So, I mean, this is an area in early childhood that continues to evolve and also highlight some of the unmanaged risks at the moment. And early childhood is is, continues to grow in the use of technology and actually looking at online, images and also how online, activity is embedded in the organization. And from, you know, looking at 12 sites, standard number one is organization, leadership and governance.
(38:53):
2I think having a really clear policy about the engagement of like, online activities is a priority when talking about online child safety standards. This is both a responsibility for the management committee and the staff and the families alike. We actually need to bring families into this conversation, and that's really important. Member organizations need to be really focused on identifying and managing the risks when issuing and using appropriate devices in the education program, not allowing the use of personal devices, as Angela's just talked about, knowing when a device should be used and for what purpose is a device being used.
(39:32):
2Establishing effective monitoring and reviewing processes are all elements in keeping and protecting children in these environments, and also staff we need to look at these is, you know, two sided how and when to use images of children seeking permission and monitoring these those permissions is fundamental in the usage of of children's images. And that's why we really need to consult very closely with families and seek their, advice.
(40:01):
2And I guess input into the, what the education program looks like and where their children may appear online or where they may not. I think creating a policy that identifies when and which uses advice is what activity looks like online and what it doesn't involve. And I don't think we talk about enough of what we shouldn't be doing.
(40:24):
2And I think we really need to be clear, because when we're looking in a risk management framework right now, we actually should be assessing the impact of some of these risks. We often look at the risk and then we look at the controls, but we're not looking at the impact. And if we start to really, unpack the impact of, online activity involving children, it is actually far greater than we can ever really comprehend right now.
(40:50):
2So I think from an education point of view, we really need to assess, the use of online activity and the devices in the, in the room, in the learning environment with children. And is it appropriate all the time? I know that we're moving. Well, we have done for many, many years, and this is really obvious in capturing every moment of a child's, development through the day and that learning environment.
(41:16):
2But is it actually necessary? Do we need to move back to actually, storytelling with the parent about experiences and things that have happened? And that, again, involves the family and the parents to understand what's going on in the day, but also to identify why those subtle child safe practices that are embedded in, the educators world every single day.
(41:40):
2You don't get to capture that in a photograph, but you get to tell that in the story there.
1There's a lot of people who think it's not real if it's not a photograph. So but in fact, you know, stories existed long before. But as a storyteller myself, it's great to hear you talk about story because stories existed, you know, predated photographs. And, you know, a, you know, physically drawn things by millennia. So, yeah, like, let's get people back to storytelling and, and, makes it more real for people to I think, you know, have you seen examples without going to specific details of where there's been something happening in the online space and that and what have you had to do to to rectify it?
(42:18):
2Well, certainly, we work with organizations to make sure that they're aware of what's going on in their space. And the most common activity that we see is, portfolios that are uploaded, through, you know, software packages that families can access. And that, in principle, is a really great way to capture and communicate what's going on in child development.
(42:41):
2But there's the cyber security risk, there's controls. There's a responsibility for the parent to also be aware whether there's other children in those images or in that footage that, they're seeing, and then they're sharing that with other family members. So and this is what I was I was talking about before, the impact is actually quite great. When we start to look at the risks involved in it.
(43:04):
2And I think organizations there's there's an element of fear at the moment. And I think this is where the child safety standards actually encourage them to build confidence, to have a conversation around online activity. It's not a yes or no that yes, we're doing it or no, we're not. But if we're involved in online activity, how are we going to make sure that the child safety standards are embedded in that and looking at, you know, child's safe standard three about how are families involved in that decision making, but also, more importantly, how are children involved in some of those decision making, activities.
(43:41):
2And we see children often saying to the educator, what are you doing? Can I have a look at that? And that's actually one of those moments of involving, involving the child and the use of their image and in the learning environment for the child to actually have a say about that.
1Well, Brittany is as if in your compliance with your compliance head on. How does it feel hearing these kinds of things and what, you know, the level of level of detail and, and, level of enthusiasm that people have for ensuring that children are kept safe like this.
(44:15):
4Oh, I think it's fantastic. It's what the child safety standards are all about in the end. And I think the great thing about the standards is the idea of continuous improvement, as you said, like improving on practices, not just letting things stagnate. And I think we're in an ever changing world, ever evolving world, especially when you factor in the online environment.
4So I think it's fantastic to hear that level of enthusiasm for keeping children safe, especially as practices continue to grow and evolve.
(44:41):
1Given that potentially not everyone has that level of enthusiasm, how do you go about, which organization are you initially going to target for assessment?
4So it's a great question. We do have a variety of ways we can receive reports of concern through our website from anyone, any member of the public can submit a report of concern about an organization. We can also receive internal referrals from within the OCG. Or we can look at emerging sector risks and trends to select organizations for an assessment.
(45:10):
4So it could be any one of those three, factors that could come into selection.
1When you sign in something internal from the okay, where where would you be getting reports from from within the OCG. How does that work?
4So it could be from our reportable conduct team or our working with children check team. Obviously different areas of the OCG work with organizations. So any area of the OCG that works within organization, they could refer that to the compliance team.
(45:37):
1Meg, are you hearing from any educators if if they had issues with the scheme or of the standards, what would you recommend to them that they do?
2Certainly we have engaged with the OCG in several platforms, obviously. You know, and coffee conversations, online learning and also a face to face at a rural and remote forum where there's learning and there's opportunity to engage. But certainly we, advocate for referral and directly engaging with the ICG. Obviously the, amazing, array of resources that the OCG have.
(46:12):
2We encourage educators, management committee directors and also families to visit that site to actually start to understand what the child child standards are actually about.
3Yeah. And similar, we're referring, staff to the resources, and, and helping them to build their capability. And that's actually across our whole organization. So that's everything from our finance team, and people and culture team to actual delivery staff as well, understanding what the organization's obligations are as well. And they've found, particularly the videos, very useful at explaining different aspects of the scheme.
(46:49):
1And. Yeah, I, I mean, obviously we're working with, ACA, the ACA, directorate at the moment to provide specific resources for, for your sector. So there's a, you know, in a, in a short amount of time, we're going to have things like e-learning, videos and animations, and other resources as well that people can access and all for free.
(47:10):
1Question for Meg and Angela, if there are educators listening and they have concerns about something happening in their practice, what what advice would you give them?
3Well, I would always advise that they should first try and talk to someone in the management, of their program. If they're feeling that they're not being heard, then, to use the referral pathways through the OCG and the New South Wales Department of Education. Who can follow up on, on any concern or inquiry that they have?
(47:40):
2And similarly, in our, information line, when we support management committee and directors, we encourage people to really have a look at what is it that what is their concern based on. Also, what is the context so that they're starting to unpack that, perspective themselves, looking at the internal policy and applying that often we find that there is a policy or procedure there, but people are unaware of it.
(48:06):
2So when they do find something that they're uncomfortable with or concerned about, they they do need to be encouraged and be confident to go to those policies and procedures. And that will may involve, you know, looking at external support to actually make a report or to unpack that information, but also looking at those environments where people feel safe to continue to talk about these.
(48:30):
1And Brittany's, can I contact the OCG if they've got problems?
4Absolutely, absolutely. So we do have a function through our website where anyone can submit a report of concern. We have a general inquiries line of that. You're welcome to call or if you do have a contact within the OCG, feel free to email them and they can refer your, your question to the right place. The OCG contact details will also be in the show notes.
(48:55):
1They will be. Thank you. This has been a fantastic conversation. I've really enjoyed it. I hope the listeners have a have as well. I hope you have two, momentum. Angela Gillespie and Brittany Taylor. Thank you very much for being on the podcast today.
1That brings us to the end of today's podcast. Listeners, you can go online any time to the office of the Children's Guardian website and access free tools and resources to help children be safe by clicking the Training and Resources tab. You can also learn more about the Reportable Conduct Scheme. The link is in the show notes for this episode.
(49:32):
1Do you want to know how well you're doing with applying the standards? Why not try the child safe self-assessment from the OCG managers and leaders as well as employees of volunteers, can spend just 30 minutes answering a few basic questions and then be sent a tailored response showing what they're doing well, any areas of improvement and how they can access resources to help them.
(49:56):
1Don't forget that the child sized self-assessment and all the training resources, including the Safe Series Protected Behaviors program for 2 to 6 year olds, are completely free. All the resources we've discussed in this episode are in the show. Notes. My name is Simon Luckhurst. Thanks for listening.
1Hi and welcome to this podcast from the office of the Children's Guardian. Funded by the New South Wales Department of Education under its Safety and Quality Practice Program. Today we'll be looking at the New South Wales Child Safe Scheme in the context of early childhood education. For listeners who aren't aware of it. The New South Wales Government introduced the Child Safe Scheme in February 2022.
(00:25):
1The scheme means organizations must be able to demonstrate their commitment to child safety by employing the ten child safe standards handed down by the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse. If organizations and workers and volunteers are applying the child safe standards, children are safer from harm and abuse. While many organizations understand what it means to keep children safe and also meeting many requirements under the National Quality Framework obligations, the scheme is designed to ensure all aspects of child safety are maintained and improved.
(01:03):
1We've got a great panel today to explore what this means for early childhood education organizations and educators. Our guests today are Meg Mendham, the CEO of Community Connection Solutions Australia and also board member, advisor and executive. With over 30 years experience in the early childhood sector, including as an educator, Angela Gillespie, a senior manager of the Blue Mountain Space Connect Children and Families Organization, Angela was the winner of the 2023 Early Childhood Australia Barbara Chris, a Champion Award.
(01:40):
1Our third guest is Brittany Taylor, a child safe officer in the compliance team at the office of the Children's Guardian. So makes us question for you. What do you see as the benefits of the child safe scheme, and how do you think it helps to keep children safe?
2Simon. The child safe scheme really brings child safety to the forefront for everyone. In early childhood, we're very familiar with child safety standards, child protection processes and procedures. But the child safe scheme really actually broadens responsibility across community, across lots of organizations. It doesn't matter what environment you're working with children. We should be all ensuring that children are safe.
(02:20):
1Is that because it uses the standards as a as a basis?
2Applying the standards strongly aligns people's expectations around child safe behavior and also child safe interactions and working with children.
1Angela, what do you think at the child safety standards? How do you think they work to keep children in early education safer?
(02:40):
3Yeah, I think building off Meg has said it. It is around seeing child safety as a governance obligation. And and it's around building that culture within your organization that children's safety and wellbeing is at the forefront in a holistic, holistic sense. Rather when when we've previously looked at it as child protection, it's allowing that to be a much bigger piece where we're understanding all aspects of children's safety and they will being and how we actually develop that in our teams and build capacity so that we can have children, being as safe as possible.
(03:12):
1And so I'm sure everyone working in early childhood education is passionate about keeping children safe. Anyway, so beyond regulation and compliance, do you think the standards really dovetail in with that desire for educators to keep children safe?
3Yeah, I think it does. And I think it contextualizes that it's more than just around what educators may have previously seen as safety, but is around how do we empower children to understand their own rights, within a space and also around the competencies of children to manage and take safe risks? It gives educators those tools as well as a framework to reflect critically on those aspects.
(03:50):
1A dog we talk about, we talk about child protection, but we also talk about child safe. And sometimes we say that child safe is, you know, what happens to keep children safe. Child protection is often what happens after children aren't safe. Do you say the standards working within both those kind of frameworks?
3I do think obviously there's there's some overlap there. But for me the biggest change is around that proactivity for organizations. So rather than as critically responding to something that's happened, and it being about reporting and notifying it is around how do we introduce risk management strategies to reduce chances that children will be in an unsafe circumstance?
(04:27):
1So make how do you ensure the staff of your member organizations are familiar with the child safe standards?
2The way that we work with our member organizations is across all areas of governance and management, and our vision is really around best practice in governance and management. In early childhood. And the focus of, working with the child safety standards is ensuring that all staff or management committee and all educators and people in leadership roles actually understand what a child safe environment looks like.
(04:58):
2They also understand what their responsibility is as as an individual and also what they understand. The expectations of other people will be about providing a safe environment.
1You as as early childhood educators and organizations, you've got, obligations both under the Child Safe scheme and under the NQF. Do you see both things working together, or is this, you know, yet more work for time for educators.
(05:26):
2When the child safe principles with this introduced, you know, a few years ago early childhood really looked at this is something that, certainly provided opportunity for improvement, but built on practices that they already have under the national quality framework. We don't see that they compete with each other. We rather see that there's a complement there. And I think the child safe standards allow for a broader conversation where educators can talk more broadly around what child safe environments look like with families and community and with other, visitors to an early childhood center.
(06:02):
2So I don't think that there is a is a competition there or climate to do additional work. I think there's a really strong alignment.
1Maybe you're just able to speak a bit more to that. And in the way of acknowledging that a lot of educators are time poor and so that it's the system is designed to support them rather than to, make it harder for them.
(06:25):
2Some in the way that educators are able to engage with the tin standards, really align with their work under the National Quality Framework, we acknowledge that there is an additional responsibility and educators do need to take on, extra work around learning the standards in aligning them with national quality framework. And I guess the ICG and other resources that are available online really support their learning and in fact, accelerate and, extend the knowledge around what that looks like now.
(06:57):
2And if that wasn't there, I think there would be challenges in how they bring themselves up to speed on the tin standards, as well as being able to talk about them with other educators and families.
1Yeah. And I mean, I guess I'm hearing you say that there's an acknowledgment that a lot of educators are time poor, but the standards and the inquiry for really sort of hopefully we'll work together and make it easier for people rather than make it more difficult for them.
(07:22):
2Indeed. And that that has been our experience so far for all educators, in all services that have really embraced the child safe standards, that they do see these things working together, quite complementary.
1So speaking of people having conflicting priorities, how do you provide, training for your staff on that child safe scheme obligations and, and their understanding of the standards?
(07:44):
3Yeah. For us it it actually starts at recruitment. So, we will begin to kind of assess what a candidate's understanding is of the child size standards throughout that recruitment process and have targeted questions, within that process as well. And then it moves on to induction. So, we'll have staff complete mandatory modules in the child safe standards.
(08:05):
3We've got a digital system that helps us, monitor those acknowledgments as well as the standard mandatory reporting modules. Every staff member, has a organizational induction with, with me. And I talk about how the child safe standards fit into our direction as an organization and where that fits in within maybe aspects that that staff member doesn't see within their own particular program, so that they can see our overarching commitment to that.
(08:30):
3Also, in that first initial induction phase is where we'll go through the code of conduct that we've developed in relation to the child safe standards. Staff have the time to review that, ask any questions before they sign off on that, and that's another area where we may say there might be some extra capacity that we need to address.
3If we've got candidates that have come through without the right understandings. We do have a standing, agenda, items to discuss child safety, child protection and individual children. All our teams have monthly team meetings, and that's really important for us because it does open up that space where we might have informal opportunities of things that have been on staff members minds, where we can then dive into what does that mean when we're viewing things through that child safe standard lens.
(09:13):
3So when we and we will revisit them. So, a lot of those initial modules that people do during the induction will be renewed over a one year or two year process so that they keep going back to them and reflecting on them, but also within our other processes that we're doing things like identifying key practices for self-assessment, lots of our practices around child safety, and the child size standards are raised within those particular processes as well.
(09:38):
3So for us, the child safe standards, a very much woven into much of the work that we are already doing. And so we do have some targeted areas where we build professional learning on. But it is a thread that we see happen through all of our work in our programs.
1And that kind of answers. My next question, which was, it sounds like, you know, it's great you've got dove training in support, really embedded in services, by the sound of it. How do you manage sort of the conflict of interest between ongoing training requirements and duties of work on the floor?
(10:11):
3Yeah, I mean, we're very fortunate to be a not for profit organization. So we know that our teams are our biggest asset and their capacity and what they add to our programs, a far greater than any other resource that we can bring in, to a service. So we actually prioritized that. Staff have dedicated time off the floor to complete training.
3And and it is around looking for those opportunities of how do you do that and where does that fit into the scheme of where the direction that your program is moving into in terms of quality improvement and being able to prioritize it?
(10:43):
1Brittany, can you tell us a little bit about, what's a monitoring assessment?
4So a monitoring assessment is a process where we assess how an organization is complying with the ten child safe standards. And to do this we look at an organization's policies and procedures. So their documentation and we also conduct a monitoring assessment interview which is a conversation with the organization to understand how the implementing the ten child safe standards in their daily practices, and also any challenges that they might have with implementing the standards as well.
(11:15):
4At the end of the monitoring assessment process will be issuing a monitoring assessment report, and that will outline our findings of how the organization is implementing the standards. And it may also contain some guidelines or some recommendations for how an organization can improve. Now, if we do issue recommendations, it's a bit more of a formal process. So under the legislation, an organization will be required to respond to these recommendations.
(11:42):
4And we'll be giving a reasonable timeframe for this to occur as well. We do also have enforcement measures under the legislation that we can use, however, will only be using these if an organization is unwilling to engage in the process with us, or if we identify a significant risk of harm to children.
1Now, the ICJ does have the capacity to, undertake enforcement action that include fines and things like that. What's the preferred, way for the ICJ to proceed? You like going straight to. Fine. So what do you do instead?
(12:13):
4Well, absolutely not. We do not like going straight to fines. So we're definitely taking a more capability building approach to compliance. And that means that we're working with organizations to understand the challenges that they might have, and how they can overcome those to successfully implement the ten child safe standards.
1And in terms of capability support, do you you know, you say, do you want to, you know, you might need to develop this policy a bit further or do you want to access, say, Jane's e-learning or here's some other I mean, how do you go about capabilities, support in that, in that space?
(12:44):
4Absolutely. So it could include anything you've just mentioned, Simon. So we could suggest that they need to write a specific policy and implemented in their organization, make changes to policies. It could involve us recommending that they distribute policies to staff, or undertake specific practices. But we also provide, you know, monitoring, assessment, report links to resources from the ICJ website.
(13:08):
4So links to e-learning, links to the fantastic handbooks and resources. That the team have created. So organizations are very supportive throughout the process. And we also check in regularly with organizations throughout the process as well to ensure that they're comfortable with the monitoring assessment process and that they don't have any questions.
1And how do you like to, physically go out and physically knock on people's doors? You're ringing people up, you're organizing online meetings. How do how does that process happen?
(13:35):
4It really does depend. So at the start of the process, organizations can expect a phone call from us, or an email, scheduling that phone call. And then when we do conduct a monitoring assessment interview, we generally try to do that face to face at the organization's premises. And this gives us an opportunity to see how child safe practices are being implemented on a day to day basis.
(13:55):
4So we do like to do a walkthrough of the service and just see, how things are going, see how educators are interacting with children and see the physical environment of the space.
1And do you look out for any one particular standard, for example, in particular, is there something that you're you're really honing in on those? Are you looking at things in general?
4It really does depend. So the standards that we select for assessment will depend on our pre-assessment research of an organization. So it could depend on if we receive a specific complaint or if we identify something, through looking at an organization's website or through looking at information that we do hold it that Osagie, as to what standards will select for assessment, I will say we do view standard one as being very important, as we think that good governance and good leadership are really essential to embedding that child safe culture in an organization.
(14:43):
4So this is a standard we do regularly look at for organizations.
1Angela, are there any standards in particular that you think support the philosophy of your organization?
3Well, I would say all of them support our philosophy. What probably speaks to us, in a values perspective is, is standard to around empowering children. So we have a core value of celebrating every child, as well as tuning in and connecting, as values that are across our organization. And so that's really important for us that, as an organization, we, we celebrate individual children, no matter their background, their competencies, who they are.
(15:24):
3But that will so our teams know that to give the space to tune in and connect with children. And I think for us that's very important into how children are empowered to have their own agency, to speak up about matters that, are important to them.
1And, you know, standard too, is about empowerment. Obviously, the the age of the cohort that you work with, you know, that's pretty young to be giving them a whole lot of decision making. But you've telling us a nice story before about how one school that you work with supports children. And I guess it empowers them in the way that it does set you want to do you want to tell us what they do?
(15:55):
3Yeah. So, yeah, I was just kind of speaking about how one of our programs in particular, but it's not unique to to one program, really assesses the possibilities in their spaces. So for this particular site, they have one large classroom and one smaller classroom. So by being able to tune in and connect with children, the staff there are very attuned to when children may need to be in a smaller group and be able to kind of regulate with the smaller group of people, rather than being part of the main group, and children are able to request when they want to do this.
(16:25):
3Or it may be that educators, responding to cues that are provided by children and in particular, that approach was used, with a child that was showing anxiety at pick up time as, as he was watching other parents arrive to collect their children and, and the staff could notice that his anxiety was escalating as more and more children were collected.
(16:46):
3So they developed a strategy for that child to kind of move into that smaller space from around 2 p.m., where he selected his own group of peers that that came and played with him and then just listened, an area that was a significantly anxious period for him. So it is around staff being able to know that they can tune in and respond, in innovative ways, to children's needs.
(17:07):
3And I think that's really important. And it's a factor that I think is something we need to promote within child safe standards as well.
1And I guess if something, anything was troubling that child in a small environment like that, they'd be much more able to to talk about it, maybe feel more comfortable to talk about it than they would in a, in a, in a space with a lot of other children.
3Yeah, absolutely. It is around how do we hone those strategies that really build connection and safety and security for children, and that they are connecting with familiar adults who they've got those preexisting relationships with? We know that's where their true feedback from children, who are in a younger age group is going to come about programs. And it gives that opportunity for educators to really be able to address what makes children feel safe and comfortable and happy, in our programs.
(17:55):
1And if we were to look at standard one, which is the standard on leadership and governance beyond, as you've done winning awards, how do your organization's leaders and managers demonstrate, sort of compliance and following the values of standard one?
3Yeah, for us, it really comes back to the heart of, children being viewed as equal citizens with rights. And that's something that all our leaders, very consistently reflect on with teens and it's one of those areas that we do kind of parse and say, if this was an adult in this situation, would this be an appropriate response?
(18:26):
3And so that's a lens that is very much mandatory for one of our leaders is, is to view children as citizens with equal rights. And so they'll go through, professional learning that helps build their understandings of that. We also still go back to what our teams image of children is, and address any things that might be coming out of that around kind of constructs, prejudices and bias as well.
(18:50):
3We've got robust policies and procedures in place and can be quite systematic. Also around the governance. We've really focused on our recording of safeguarding concerns as well, being very transparent. So we now have an online system that allows for even the slightest concern to be recorded by any staff member through using QR codes that then pings up, to only certain managers.
(19:15):
3So that decision making on the next step is not left up to one person alone to think, is this something we need to pursue further? So we've got lots of things in place that are around the requirements of our leaders. To really demonstrate that commitment to, child safety standards.
1So hey, innovation. Fantastic. Can you just break down a little bit about how those QR codes work so educators get their phones out and they're instantly takes them somewhere.
(19:40):
3So they don't use their own phone? Because that's one of our child protection measures. Is that when I'm about to.
1Have note that Brittany. Yeah.
3So they so we don't allow personal phones, to be in classrooms. But we do have, organizational iPads that are used for various purposes. So we have QR codes on the wall that leads, our staff to a variety of forms that come through, a system that we use called Foley art, which for us, it works really well because we can actually, manipulate those forms for whatever purpose we need them, to be manipulated form.
(20:13):
3So it will open up a form for them. They will write down their concern about that particular child. It will then ask if they think that child is at risk of harm. If they say yes or unsure, directs them to the mandatory reporting tray to child story. And then they're asked to attach a PDF of that image. If they if that's what it's requested that they do, I then as a senior manager, get an alert that that report has been made by a team member.
(20:39):
3And if there were any conflicts that that staff member had with me, seeing that we've got other avenues where they could have that form put through a different way, but it just means then that all review it, and it might be that staff member only knows that piece of the puzzle about that particular child. I may be aware of other pieces that are going on for that child's life.
3And as well as there may be things that I've got the experience to know, that that may be a sign of something more significant that, less experienced, staff member, may not have that view yet. So, it works really well for us. We also use that to kind of review of are we underreporting on issues that might be happening?
(21:15):
3And we'll relay that with, statistics and kind of go, well, if we know this is the prevalence of things that are going on in our community, and this is the amount that we've got reporting on, is that now an area that we need to focus on talking with our teams about just to make sure that our reporting is matching.
3And and it was something when I first came into the sector, we were having, exercise books hidden in filing cabinets to make notes on children that maybe no one else ever saw, that those particular notes. So it is around, addressing the lack of transparency, I think, that we've had with things that may not be a clear indicator that something's happening for a child, but they are those little things that tell you as an adult that knows that child well, that something is off in this situation at the moment.
(22:00):
1And does that apply to other adults and other educators as well? Because I know that, you know, you might see someone do something very minor, but someone else is also seeing something very minor, and someone else is saying something also minor. But put them together and you can start to have a concerning pattern of behavior. Is that sort of, reporting encouraged or so?
3Yeah. So and it does allow for all kind of aspects of concern. So if they had a concern about the way someone was interacting within one of our spaces, they'd be able to use that form to report on that as well, so that we may have gotten a few reports of, of, even if it was a casual educated that is not as involved in some of our processes.
(22:37):
3And so, yeah, it does pull all of those pictures together. It's got a search function that I can search for that particular child's name and see any report that someone has lodged, and it will go across our system. So there's been any significant notifiable incidences in regards to accidents and injuries. It'll also pull that up. So we're able to pull together a much bigger view of some data that's been recorded on that particular child.
(23:02):
1How I mean, how has your system go about pulling together a picture of what may turn out to be an unsafe person? How how do those little bits of the jigsaw puzzle get fitted together?
3Yeah. So my role is to review those reports. And so it will be me kind of looking at going. There's a few concerns here about someone, and then we would undertake an internal investigation to see if there's more here to substantiate anything. And then we follow the various notification, processes and get advice for where we go to next.
(23:34):
3With that, once we've started to build a bigger picture of what might be happening.
1Now, Meg, we've we've, we've we got onto this topic by looking at sort of the standards in general and sort of how, people may have a particular resonance to one or the other. Is there a standard or standards that speak to your personal feelings about child safety, or would you support all of them as well?
(23:55):
2Simon, I think, are all ten a really important. And on the back of Angela's response, you know, certainly number two around empowering the child is really important. But to expand on the standards. So we're not covering the same information. I'm a community developer at heart. So standard number three with families in communities that are informed in and involved I think is really important because that expands that, engagement with the standards beyond the walls, what I call beyond the gaze of the early childhood service.
(24:27):
2We actually want child standards and best practice to be embedded in community in all environments with children. So number three is really, really important to my heart when we're talking about community. And number one, from an organizational point of view, is fundamentally what Ccé is about. And child safe, safety is embedded in organizational leadership, governance and culture.
(24:50):
2That is where we support the management committee, the leaders in management of the service, and also, the families to understand that this needs to be embedded in everyday practice, in conversations, in policies and procedures. But most importantly, it's something that builds in their culture every day.
1It's interesting that you both pick standards two and three because, traditionally the some of the ones that organization struggle with the most is, I mean, how do you support organizations to understand their commitments under, standard three? How do you how do you how do you get families and communities involved?
(25:26):
2I think what's most important for an early childhood service is to understand that families, have have their rights and responsibilities upheld in the environment. I think we should break down those barriers of they've entered our world into an early childhood service rather, this is part of the community. So we actually want to be engaged and committed to uplifting people's knowledge around child safe standards so that when families, engaging in sporting environments or church groups or other social activities, that they can actually be, more heightened and aware around what child safe principles should be wherever children are.
(26:08):
2It's not just within the early childhood service. So actually empowering educators to be able to talk to families about what child safe standards are about and not seeing it as a fear factor, rather that it's a social enterprise, that is actually delivered back to community.
1And is that the most effective way that you found to to, upskill, I guess, families and communities, just direct communication from educators or do you do other things? Do you do, videos, for example, or fliers or how do you communicate with those stakeholders?
(26:40):
2When we're working with the organizations, we want them to really think about the best way of how they engage with community. We want to make sure that it's culturally sensitive, culturally safe, and appropriate. It's also around getting, educators that might attend fairs or actually, you know, a fundraising event to be actually actually confident to talk about the child safety standards.
(27:05):
2And if that's happening within the service, where there's a strong commitment and there's a safe space to raise conversations and concerns, there are opportunities, then that confidence actually is going to come out in community when educators are actually out there working. And that really needs to start from, the governance and management responsibilities of the leaders in the organization.
(27:26):
2It should be embedded in the strategic plan right through to their policies and procedures. And as Angela has talked about today, the recruitment of staff, but also within the enrollment process of engaging with, with families through an enrollment interview at the end of the start of the.
1That seems like a good place to come to you. Brittany, were talking about, sort of what underpins an organization's understanding of the standards and child safety. A lot of organizations have something like a statement of commitment to child safety. How important is it for organization to have something like that?
(28:01):
4Brittany, I'd say it's very important. As you said, it's the document that underpins the organization's commitment to child safety and how they plan to enact the ten child safety standards. I'd say what's also important is how they distribute that information. So is the statement of commitment on the organization's website. Is it displayed in the service? Is it given to parents?
(28:21):
4Is that information communicated to children in child friendly ways? I think it's all well and good to have the document. It's very important document, but it's also about how you distribute that information as well.
1And make how do you support organizations to, have a statement of claim and more than that, to employ it, to use it to make sure it's not some bit of paper sitting on a shelf, but is actually something that that people are aware of and apply.
(28:47):
2I think that's a really fundamental, issue that we have in early childhood services coming back to our time pool. You know, exercise before where how do services develop something? How do they, or consult with families and management committees and educators and community? And I guess this is where the code of conduct that has been developed fundamentally drives part of that work for them already.
(29:15):
2But it still needs to be organic, and it's that engagement needs to come from within the service. So we really work with the management committee and the directors to understand the language behind the child safety standards, to understand what the commitment is, that they're actually making, but to review and monitor and assess that commitment regularly. We're very familiar with reflective practice in early childhood under the National Quality Framework in the early learning framework.
(29:42):
2But we really need to see this across all areas of responsibility, whether it be work, health and safety or a code of conduct for the child safety standards. I think language is really powerful. And then that actually, is responded to with behavior and processes that actually in organizations on a daily basis.
(30:02):
1And is that something also that you can engage with families and communities and get them involved as well?
2Indeed. And I guess, you know, as Brittany has alluded to, a true commitment to a code of conduct should include all stakeholders. It's not a document that should only sit with the management committee or the approved provider, or the leadership team. It really needs to be organically grown, from elders within the community and of the people that have that commitment to children being safe, whatever environment that they're in.
(30:32):
2So I think that that consultation process and that, I guess building of words and sentences and then to a whole code of conduct is really important and is a whole of organization, responsibility.
1And applying that, that, that kind of kind of make making sure it's lived. Angela, speaking of applying things, policies, everyone has policies for this and that. It's really important in the environments we're talking about that those policies applied. How does your organization or how do you support organizations to not just have policies, not just have good policies, but apply those policies and put them into everyday practice?
(31:09):
3Yeah, absolutely. So for us, we have a pretty robust process of making sure that all staff have read and acknowledge policies and procedures. And then we'll regularly revisit them. So, it is around kind of referring staff to what is the appropriate policy that they should be following. Also, if we're ever investigating any particular concerns or incidents, it is the testing of that policy.
(31:37):
3And was it clear enough, to give the staff the appropriate guidance? And I think as, an organization providing governance, to our programs, you know, we've got to be open to the accountability that maybe that policy wasn't strong enough. And take the feedback, on how we need to maybe tighten, some of the wording or the procedures within that, within that up.
(31:59):
3In regards to the child side scheme, we actually undertook the self-assessment process with, a group of staff who, were able to express interest, in being part of a working group. And that gave us a really diverse, slice, of our workforce, because we've quite diverse programs, where we're not only center based, but we've got community based programs as well.
(32:20):
1I'll just interrupt you. There was at the OCG chance at self-assessment just so much. Yes.
3Yes, yes, so many self-assessment start.
1If you're not aware, the ICG has a child sized self-assessment tool which is available for free from our website. I'll talk more about that towards the end of the part. But yeah, sorry to interrupt.
3That's okay. Yeah. So, we undertook that process, which was really great to highlight the work that we were already doing, which I think fits to to the question around time management because there is a lot of dovetailing, that that can happen with the obligations under child safe standards and work, I think, particularly in early childhood education, where we've had a pretty strong regulatory, and legal framework for quite, quite a long amount of time.
(33:02):
3So a lot of those strategies and practices are actually already there, and it can confirm for services, the work that's already being done. And then it gave us, also the insight into where improvements, needed to be made. And, and how we actually articulated different things because, I know with child centered reporting, the original wording of that, felt quite intimidating for some of our staff when you're talking about children from six weeks old, what does that mean?
(33:31):
3And then it was around being able to actually look at the strategies that we use, using preexisting, resources. So we've used the safe series, for quite a long time, the OCG safe series, to help children understand about their rights for, for child protection and how they can speak up for themselves. So it was that work, to kind of say, well, what if we already got in place?
(33:53):
3Where do we need to improve? And do we need to look at some of the work that we're already doing differently.
1Without revealing too many secrets? Is there something that you surprised? You were surprised to find that people thought they were doing really well at, or something that that you thought people would be doing well? In fact, they didn't think.
3I think what what became apparent to us, things that had been in policies for a long time, that we thought they had been accepted as standard practice. That process highlighted for people who felt that their works out a little bit outside of of the norm of our work, hadn't applied those particular practices, to what they were doing.
(34:30):
3So it did for us really highlight the need of how do we talk with our teams in face to face settings, to really dig into things that we may have taken for granted. And that often with policies, people will look at things and go, oh, that doesn't really apply to my work. So how do we make that really specific and have those policies, articulate in enough detail when people might be doing work that's a little bit outside of the norm, which often happens, within our sector as we innovate.
(34:58):
1Another thing that people want to, embed, I guess, in their day to day practices is risk management. And the standard that speaks to risk management, standard eight, it plays a huge part in keeping children and organizations safe. It has two parts, has physical and online. And so I'm going to ask you, how does your organization assess its, safety to children in physical spaces?
(35:24):
3Yeah. So we've put a lot of focus, into our staff building capacity to understand robust risk assessment, and how they can apply, a risk benefit lens to what we're doing with children. So we've got, also through our folio system, a risk assessment tool, where educators and teams can look at particular activities that they might be doing and apply, risk assessment to that, to be able to make a decision about what we need to do and also have clear mitigations in place.
(35:55):
3Because for us, it's really not that we won't allow a particular activity to go ahead, but that we've got the appropriate mitigations that will ensure that children are safe, during that activity. And then we have probably a lot of standard things that most, providers have where we've got daily checks of environments to ensure, to ensure that safety, is, is upheld.
(36:18):
3We think about the equipment that we select, that it's appropriate and fit for purpose. And, and how we can actually upskill our staff to assess that because, I think we can have lots of things seen on social media and things like that where, actually all of the context of that particular equipment or set up being used, educators don't realize, behind that.
(36:42):
3And then, really it is around, just understanding what is an appropriate risk, to have in place for children. We have a two person policy at connect, so no one is ever left, alone. With children. I think that's that's really vital to be, one it helps people be accountable for their decision making that's going on.
(37:03):
3But also it minimizes those risks to children and educators.
1How does that risk management tool that you're talking about interact with sort of spontaneous teachable moments? I guess.
3Yeah. So we have our teams actually do a full environment risk assessment. So they will risk assess the entire outdoor yard. So that may be looking at the, dry creek bed and water pump and really think about all of those mitigations that we need in if children are engaging in those activities. And being able to assess what's high risk, what's low risk, what's high supervision, what's low supervision, so that then actually the knowledge around specific activities as they unfold, is actually in place, rather than doing an individual risk assessment, for each separate activity, looking at the environment, and, and what should be happening every day so that children can,
(37:53):
3really explore their curiosities. And educators have that repertoire of strategies, to be able to ensure safety.
1Make online safety is still something emerging for many of the children and the age group that we're talking about. And, you know, many of them are still to be young, to be accessing devices. However, most services are now using online platforms to communicate with families and showcasing images of children on social media. So how can services go about, mitigating the risk to, to children in the online environment?
(38:24):
2So, I mean, this is an area in early childhood that continues to evolve and also highlight some of the unmanaged risks at the moment. And early childhood is is, continues to grow in the use of technology and actually looking at online, images and also how online, activity is embedded in the organization. And from, you know, looking at 12 sites, standard number one is organization, leadership and governance.
(38:53):
2I think having a really clear policy about the engagement of like, online activities is a priority when talking about online child safety standards. This is both a responsibility for the management committee and the staff and the families alike. We actually need to bring families into this conversation, and that's really important. Member organizations need to be really focused on identifying and managing the risks when issuing and using appropriate devices in the education program, not allowing the use of personal devices, as Angela's just talked about, knowing when a device should be used and for what purpose is a device being used.
(39:32):
2Establishing effective monitoring and reviewing processes are all elements in keeping and protecting children in these environments, and also staff we need to look at these is, you know, two sided how and when to use images of children seeking permission and monitoring these those permissions is fundamental in the usage of of children's images. And that's why we really need to consult very closely with families and seek their, advice.
(40:01):
2And I guess input into the, what the education program looks like and where their children may appear online or where they may not. I think creating a policy that identifies when and which uses advice is what activity looks like online and what it doesn't involve. And I don't think we talk about enough of what we shouldn't be doing.
(40:24):
2And I think we really need to be clear, because when we're looking in a risk management framework right now, we actually should be assessing the impact of some of these risks. We often look at the risk and then we look at the controls, but we're not looking at the impact. And if we start to really, unpack the impact of, online activity involving children, it is actually far greater than we can ever really comprehend right now.
(40:50):
2So I think from an education point of view, we really need to assess, the use of online activity and the devices in the, in the room, in the learning environment with children. And is it appropriate all the time? I know that we're moving. Well, we have done for many, many years, and this is really obvious in capturing every moment of a child's, development through the day and that learning environment.
(41:16):
2But is it actually necessary? Do we need to move back to actually, storytelling with the parent about experiences and things that have happened? And that, again, involves the family and the parents to understand what's going on in the day, but also to identify why those subtle child safe practices that are embedded in, the educators world every single day.
(41:40):
2You don't get to capture that in a photograph, but you get to tell that in the story there.
1There's a lot of people who think it's not real if it's not a photograph. So but in fact, you know, stories existed long before. But as a storyteller myself, it's great to hear you talk about story because stories existed, you know, predated photographs. And, you know, a, you know, physically drawn things by millennia. So, yeah, like, let's get people back to storytelling and, and, makes it more real for people to I think, you know, have you seen examples without going to specific details of where there's been something happening in the online space and that and what have you had to do to to rectify it?
(42:18):
2Well, certainly, we work with organizations to make sure that they're aware of what's going on in their space. And the most common activity that we see is, portfolios that are uploaded, through, you know, software packages that families can access. And that, in principle, is a really great way to capture and communicate what's going on in child development.
(42:41):
2But there's the cyber security risk, there's controls. There's a responsibility for the parent to also be aware whether there's other children in those images or in that footage that, they're seeing, and then they're sharing that with other family members. So and this is what I was I was talking about before, the impact is actually quite great. When we start to look at the risks involved in it.
(43:04):
2And I think organizations there's there's an element of fear at the moment. And I think this is where the child safety standards actually encourage them to build confidence, to have a conversation around online activity. It's not a yes or no that yes, we're doing it or no, we're not. But if we're involved in online activity, how are we going to make sure that the child safety standards are embedded in that and looking at, you know, child's safe standard three about how are families involved in that decision making, but also, more importantly, how are children involved in some of those decision making, activities.
(43:41):
2And we see children often saying to the educator, what are you doing? Can I have a look at that? And that's actually one of those moments of involving, involving the child and the use of their image and in the learning environment for the child to actually have a say about that.
1Well, Brittany is as if in your compliance with your compliance head on. How does it feel hearing these kinds of things and what, you know, the level of level of detail and, and, level of enthusiasm that people have for ensuring that children are kept safe like this.
(44:15):
4Oh, I think it's fantastic. It's what the child safety standards are all about in the end. And I think the great thing about the standards is the idea of continuous improvement, as you said, like improving on practices, not just letting things stagnate. And I think we're in an ever changing world, ever evolving world, especially when you factor in the online environment.
4So I think it's fantastic to hear that level of enthusiasm for keeping children safe, especially as practices continue to grow and evolve.
(44:41):
1Given that potentially not everyone has that level of enthusiasm, how do you go about, which organization are you initially going to target for assessment?
4So it's a great question. We do have a variety of ways we can receive reports of concern through our website from anyone, any member of the public can submit a report of concern about an organization. We can also receive internal referrals from within the OCG. Or we can look at emerging sector risks and trends to select organizations for an assessment.
(45:10):
4So it could be any one of those three, factors that could come into selection.
1When you sign in something internal from the okay, where where would you be getting reports from from within the OCG. How does that work?
4So it could be from our reportable conduct team or our working with children check team. Obviously different areas of the OCG work with organizations. So any area of the OCG that works within organization, they could refer that to the compliance team.
(45:37):
1Meg, are you hearing from any educators if if they had issues with the scheme or of the standards, what would you recommend to them that they do?
2Certainly we have engaged with the OCG in several platforms, obviously. You know, and coffee conversations, online learning and also a face to face at a rural and remote forum where there's learning and there's opportunity to engage. But certainly we, advocate for referral and directly engaging with the ICG. Obviously the, amazing, array of resources that the OCG have.
(46:12):
2We encourage educators, management committee directors and also families to visit that site to actually start to understand what the child child standards are actually about.
3Yeah. And similar, we're referring, staff to the resources, and, and helping them to build their capability. And that's actually across our whole organization. So that's everything from our finance team, and people and culture team to actual delivery staff as well, understanding what the organization's obligations are as well. And they've found, particularly the videos, very useful at explaining different aspects of the scheme.
(46:49):
1And. Yeah, I, I mean, obviously we're working with, ACA, the ACA, directorate at the moment to provide specific resources for, for your sector. So there's a, you know, in a, in a short amount of time, we're going to have things like e-learning, videos and animations, and other resources as well that people can access and all for free.
(47:10):
1Question for Meg and Angela, if there are educators listening and they have concerns about something happening in their practice, what what advice would you give them?
3Well, I would always advise that they should first try and talk to someone in the management, of their program. If they're feeling that they're not being heard, then, to use the referral pathways through the OCG and the New South Wales Department of Education. Who can follow up on, on any concern or inquiry that they have?
(47:40):
2And similarly, in our, information line, when we support management committee and directors, we encourage people to really have a look at what is it that what is their concern based on. Also, what is the context so that they're starting to unpack that, perspective themselves, looking at the internal policy and applying that often we find that there is a policy or procedure there, but people are unaware of it.
(48:06):
2So when they do find something that they're uncomfortable with or concerned about, they they do need to be encouraged and be confident to go to those policies and procedures. And that will may involve, you know, looking at external support to actually make a report or to unpack that information, but also looking at those environments where people feel safe to continue to talk about these.
(48:30):
1And Brittany's, can I contact the OCG if they've got problems?
4Absolutely, absolutely. So we do have a function through our website where anyone can submit a report of concern. We have a general inquiries line of that. You're welcome to call or if you do have a contact within the OCG, feel free to email them and they can refer your, your question to the right place. The OCG contact details will also be in the show notes.
(48:55):
1They will be. Thank you. This has been a fantastic conversation. I've really enjoyed it. I hope the listeners have a have as well. I hope you have two, momentum. Angela Gillespie and Brittany Taylor. Thank you very much for being on the podcast today.
1That brings us to the end of today's podcast. Listeners, you can go online any time to the office of the Children's Guardian website and access free tools and resources to help children be safe by clicking the Training and Resources tab. You can also learn more about the Reportable Conduct Scheme. The link is in the show notes for this episode.
(49:32):
1Do you want to know how well you're doing with applying the standards? Why not try the child safe self-assessment from the OCG managers and leaders as well as employees of volunteers, can spend just 30 minutes answering a few basic questions and then be sent a tailored response showing what they're doing well, any areas of improvement and how they can access resources to help them.
(49:56):
1Don't forget that the child sized self-assessment and all the training resources, including the Safe Series Protected Behaviors program for 2 to 6 year olds, are completely free. All the resources we've discussed in this episode are in the show. Notes. My name is Simon Luckhurst. Thanks for listening.
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