February 17, 2025 • 47 mins
Inside Conflict Transformation with MBBI's Prabha Sankaranarayan
Host Laura May speaks with Prabha Sankaranarayan, president and CEO of Mediators Beyond Borders International, on her journey spanning child advocacy to conflict mediation. Recorded in June 2024 and including discussion of societal conflict in the United States, this episode has become even more relevant today.
The episode starts with an exploration of Prabha's transition from therapy to mediation, her commitment to creating spaces for transformation, and the formation of the Trust Network to build a peace infrastructure in the U.S. Prabha emphasizes the importance of community, ongoing self-awareness, and the global shift towards pluralistic cultures. The conversation concludes with an invitations for listeners to get involved in transformative conflict work.
Useful links:
Time stamps:
00:00 Introduction 01:15 Prabha's Career Journey 10:45 Personal Influences and Family Background 14:16 Activism and Early Influences 19:03 The Importance of Community and Collective Efforts 26:00 Self-Awareness and Continuous Practice 33:18 Building a National Peace Infrastructure 42:02 How to Get Involved
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Laura May (00:11):
Hello, and welcome to the Conflict Tipping Podcast from Mediate.
com.
The podcast that explores socialconflict and what we can do about it.
I'm your host, Laura May.
And today I have with me theincredible Prabha Sankaranarayan.
The president and CEO of MediatorsBeyond Borders International.
She's trained herself to be a reallygood listener and storyteller,
(00:33):
which we can look forward to, and isdedicated to listening and conflict
transformation as a constant practice.
Prabha is an adrenaline junkie who enjoyshiking rafting, climbing, and yoga.
So welcome Prabha.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (00:49):
Thank you, Laura.
What a pleasure and a treat tobe back in conversation with you.
Laura May (00:55):
Absolutely.
Because we got to know each othera little bit when I was leading the
International Mediation Institute.
And we were sort of sneakilytrying to find ways to bring
the mediation world together.
So we made some steps in that direction.
So it's great to reunite a few yearsdown the track and be talking all things
conflict and all things Prabha as well.
What was the start of your journey?
(01:16):
How did you get to where you are today?
Prabha Sankaranarayan (01:18):
Let me see.
You know, I knew at 15what I wanted to be.
I didn't know that I would want to beseveral different professions, and so I
spent the first 20 years as a therapistworking primarily with children and
families, because I always knew that Iwanted to work with children and that
I wanted to work with children who werehurt from a variety of things, for a
(01:41):
variety of reasons, by all kinds ofthings, children hurt by their families,
by accidents, by physiological, geneticchallenges, all of those things.
And so I was going along doing thatand really finding it very meaningful.
And there was a moment I wasseeing a couple and they had
come because they just wanted tofigure out how to be good parents.
(02:05):
They were going through a divorce ina country they had immigrated to, in
which they didn't feel particularlysupported, had all kinds of cultural
expectations of themselves and eachother and were really challenged.
And I used to get a lot of referrals fromthe court system because the judges knew
me from my child advocacy work over thedecades and they would just say, go sort
(02:27):
it out, Prabha, figure out what kind of acustody arrangement we can come up with.
Anyway, so I started seeing themand, you know, at a certain point,
Laura, I just realized, you know, Idon't have the skills to help them.
I really need to figure out how Ican be helpful to people who are at a
(02:48):
different phase, have a different kindof need than the skills I had trained
myself for the previous 20 years.
And I reached out to a friendwho suggested a custody mediation
training, and I will say that wasthe beginning for me of a complete
switch in what I started to focus on.
(03:08):
It wasn't a complete switch ineverything I did, but I started down
that path, and it was also aroundthis time that I had just come back
from Sri Lanka after the tsunami.
Um, And I had been working with a group ofpeople, providing psychological first aid,
and trauma has always been my specialty,and had these amazing conversations with
(03:33):
these young women who were returned byUNHCR, by the Tamil Tigers, and were
staying in the same orphanage that wewere staying in, and all of these things
happened at the same time, and what Ithink it did was made me realize that I
didn't just want to work with familieswho had been impacted by violence, but
(03:54):
wanted to work upstream, really do theprevention generationally, recognizing
that so many of the children who are hurtwhen they don't get the help they need,
end up perpetrating acts of violence.
And that's a responsibility we have,we all have, and so I really wanted
to move in the direction of preventingrather than intervening after the fact.
(04:21):
And that just began my journeyof exploring everything
I could about mediation.
I did custody mediation, I did eldermediation, and I did community mediation.
And then I gradually realized myinterest was really in intercultural
work, and bringing together mybackground as a trauma specialist,
along with peace building.
And here we are, 20 years later.
Laura May (04:44):
I find it really interesting that you started
with this almost micro thing.
I mean, it's obviously a big problem,severe problem, hurt children.
And it's like you zoomed out and out,both in terms of the people involved, also
the time spans involved, until you wentto, no, let's bring cultures together.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (05:00):
That's, I go back to that experience because It
was one of inadequacy in some ways,of feeling frustrated that I wasn't
doing what I had trained myself to do,which is to be a person who can create
space in which transformation happens.
And so it was the beginning of therecognition of all the different ways
(05:25):
in which you can create those spaces.
Containers have always been sacred forme, whether it's a therapeutic container
or a conflict transformation container,a facilitation container, that what
goes into the kinds of containersyou create is incredibly important.
It's something, you know, people likeyou, you're a facilitator you give a
(05:50):
lot of thought to what you do beforeyou walk into a room with people.
You've thought so much aboutwhat goes into all of that.
And so it was that moment, butI think it was a collection
of those kinds of moments.
It was also those moments oflooking into the deep, dark pools
(06:13):
of those girls who had been childsoldiers, they had carried weapons.
They had done incredibly painful things.
They had incredibly painfulthings happen to them.
So I think for me, it's a collection ofthose moments of interactions with people.
And ultimately, changefor me comes back to that.
It's that kind ofrelational transformation.
(06:35):
Yes, it was as you said aninteraction that was personal
that grew into something more.
But I had also been doinglarge community work by then.
I had done some of the work with FEMA inthe United States and Homeland Security
after 9 11, where I had been workingwith families impacted by horrendous
(06:57):
tragedy, as well as with communitiesof professionals who had responded.
And we used to have these large groupsessions with people who were impacted
in order to help them cope with thoseexperiences and connect them with
others who had these shared experiences.
(07:17):
And so community wideexperiences and community wide
transformation as a clinician wassomething I was familiar with.
Now I felt like I was addinga whole set of skills.
You know how you have those momentswhen you've taken an amazing
training by an amazing facilitator?
And windows just open up and yousee the world so differently.
(07:40):
It's never the same again.
Laura May (07:43):
Absolutely.
That's how mediationtraining was for me as well.
So I completely knowwhere you're coming from.
Like, oh, my world just changed.
I wasn't expecting this.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (07:53):
Yes, exactly.
And then you know, I took anothertraining, I will say, I'm looking
at this image of my friend andcolleague, Dave Joseph, who's
an amazing dialogue facilitator.
And that was another one ofthose incredible moments.
You know, Dave was at EssentialPartners at that time.
And he's just, he was sadly,we lost him a few years ago.
(08:14):
Dave was just one of those absolutelyincredible people who you can't but
have your life be touched when youhave experienced his friendship.
You know, there are integrative minds,there are people who specialize, and then
there are people who integrate poetryand drama and history and philosophy and
art and bring it all together in theirwork, and Dave was one of those, and
(08:39):
he was funny as all get out too, but itwas his dialogue training that also made
me look at all of this transformativework as really needing a solid base,
but also needing to be somethingthat we have to be flexible with.
You can't, it's when peoplesay, is mediation what you do?
I say, no, you know, at MediatorsBeyond Borders, we are all
(09:00):
multimodal practitioners.
There isn't just one thing we do.
So it's mediation, it's dialogue, it'srestorative circles, it's facilitation,
it's consensus building, it's joint factfinding, it's group decision making, it's
all of those processes that ultimatelyrequire us to work collaboratively.
Laura May (09:20):
Absolutely.
I definitely want to come back to that,but first I actually want to circle
back to your own origin story, likea superhero origin story in a way.
I can see you in a cape, Prabha,like I need to maybe a cape and a
crown, to be honest, like I feel likeyou deserve both, but I was really
struck by the language you used whenyou were talking about this journey.
(09:45):
Cause you said that on the one hand,there was this dedication to saving hurt
children in whichever way they were hurt.
And then you described yourself assomeone who's always been committed
to creating spaces for transformation.
And if it's not too personal, for you toshare, where does that drive come from?
Cause this is the kind of thingthat's come up quite a few times
(10:06):
in this podcast, people's stories.
It's like something that they want toresolve for themselves and that's what
drives them and continues to drivethem and their passion in the work.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (10:17):
You know, at various stages in my life, that's the
kind of question therapists and mediatorsask themselves as they're in their
own self examination processes, right?
Because it all begins within.
All of this.
From belief that when you enter aroom, what you bring in, that's why
the acknowledgement of the past.
(10:39):
And the shoulders of the people youknow, stand on, the work that has
been done before is also critical.
It goes back to family for me.
I think it goes back to the influence of,extraordinary people that I was really
extremely fortunate to have in my life.
And the time I grew up in, I thinkalso, and the place I grew up in, these
(11:02):
are all parts of our history, right?
So I grew up in post independenceIndia, and my grandfather was
one of five journalists who waswitness to the Declaration of
Independence, to the signing of it,
Laura May (11:14):
Wow.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (11:15):
and
Laura May (11:16):
That's epic.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (11:16):
it, It is, and I happen to have the
good fortune to have been thefavorite grandchild, so I have this
Laura May (11:24):
Of course, course.
I wouldn't expect anything less.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (11:27):
Wonderful cousins.
They're amazing people.
But I, have what he wrote, hisoriginal words after that event
that he wrote to his family, to hiswife and children and grandchildren.
And, I've always thought aboutthat, you know, that the kinds
of things they did mattered.
(11:48):
And so the kind of person hewas mattered tremendously.
He was a great influence in my life.
Teaching me to question things in aculture where girls were not encouraged
to question to challenge authority.
So I grew up in that culture,India in the sixties and seventies.
And again, it's not one India,as you know, there are so many
(12:09):
different influences, but so hisinfluence, my family influence.
I have you know, had a father whohad his own tragic story and we
grew up knowing about him beingorphaned by the time he was 11.
And he rose to become the head of oneof the largest banks in the country.
He was a finance ministry appointee,traveled around the world, in my house
(12:34):
there were people from all over theworld all the time, and so he was another
one who, when I said I'm going away tocollege, the first person in my family
to go away, first girl to go away.
He was the one who said yes before Iwent to my mother, who said, 'Well, who
said you could do that?' And I said, Appa
Laura May (12:53):
Nice.
You chose the right parent to ask.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (12:57):
Um, So those influences mattered.
And and I think personalexperiences that we have.
I also, uh, had my ownexperience of sexual violence.
Grew up in a family thatwas impacted by alcoholism.
(13:19):
You know, people can carryall these different aspects.
So here is this amazing man who carriesthe honor of his family very deeply.
At the same time, his own historycontributes to the ways in which he copes.
And one of them was notparticularly healthy.
And we felt the brunt of that sometimes.
And my mother, you know, she wasa child development expert at
(13:42):
a time when that didn't exist.
She was extraordinarily protective.
Just knew the right things to do to makesure that no matter what happened, we were
kept safe to the extent that she could.
So when I crashed my car, becauseI drove without permission,
I didn't go to my father.
I went to my mother at that time,
Laura May (14:02):
Nice.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (14:02):
who said
Laura May (14:03):
Well, you really knew which parent to go to.
You're like, this isthe column for my dad.
This is the column for my mom.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (14:10):
exactly.
Oh, so I think those earlyinfluences and the times.
When I was in college Indira Gandhideclared emergency rule, and we protested.
I was 16 at that time and we were marchingbecause of the suspension of civil rights.
(14:30):
By the time I was in grad school,we were marching for women's rights.
So being an activist, I thinkpartly comes from that generation of
influence of people who fought forindependence, that you have to do
something about what you want to change.
So creating that kind of transformation,whether it's in the spaces you create or
(14:52):
in the activism that you choose to engagein, that we can be agents of change was,
I think, a lesson I learned very early.
Laura May (15:01):
You know, I love and somehow also a little surprised
by the way you framed this . Thisis not a criticism, by the way.
It's just a reflection on someof the other stories I've heard.
It's that I'm hearing that theseexperiences have been really,
almost empowering, inspirational,as opposed to necessarily leading
you to be driven by fear or anxietyor anger, or like a burning need to
(15:25):
fix things or externalize things.
Maybe it's because you have that historyas a psychologist as well, because this
is something that a number of my guestson this podcast have reflected upon.
It's well, what do I need to fixin the world to complete myself?
And yet that's not really something I'mhearing in what you're sharing, which
I think is, and I mean, hopefully I'mhearing correctly, but it's exceptional
(15:47):
in a way, because that's not thestory you often hear from mediators.
It's that, yes, I've had these adverseexperiences, but it's the empowerment
and inspiration and the knowledgethat I can do something to change
things that keeps driving you forward.
So it's fascinating to me.
That's why I'm like, yeah, I'm alittle surprised, but I love this.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (16:08):
You are such a good listener, Laura.
This is, you know, partof this is exploration.
Yes, listen to you.
And I'm listening to yourreflection and thinking that's true.
That's true.
It is the ongoing quest to both understandoneself, the influences in our lives, and
(16:29):
engage in a way that is transformative.
That's, it's got to be that, I think.
And that feels like a responsibility insome ways, because I had a wonderful
family, I have a wonderful family,it's a huge extended family that has
all kinds of amazing people in it.
And one of my role models is this auntof mine who died at 95, lived in D.
(16:53):
C., tiny little woman.
If you think I'm short, small,she was smaller than me.
And she just had this influence on people.
She came through a lot also in herlife as she grew up in India, moved
to this country, raised two children,and then spent the second half of
her life teaching and volunteeringand doing all kinds of amazing things
(17:18):
that we were fortunate to have thoseinfluences in our lives, right?
So I feel like there's a responsibility.
I had incredible teachers.
I'm in a WhatsApp group with my highschool classmates from Bangalore.
And Oh,
Laura May (17:33):
how many people are in it?
Cause I don't know what the standardhigh school class size is in Bangalore.
But also I'm amazed cause I mean,that was a little while ago, it
was at least two or three years,
Prabha Sankaranarayan: You can say that, Laura. (17:45):
undefined
Yes,
Laura May (17:47):
okay,
Prabha Sankaranarayan: it was 40 years ago. (17:48):
undefined
I can say that.
No, there are about 15 20 of usand they're all over the world.
Some of them are in India.
Some are in Canada.
Some are in the U.
S.
And what's incredible about thisgroup of classmates is they're doctors
and accountants and I T specialistsand therapists and mediators and
(18:10):
just it's an incredible group ofpeople and we've stayed connected.
Thank you, Facebook, which is how wefirst got connected and then shifted
to a private conversation, right?
But we talk about our teachersand their influence and remember
them and how they influenced us.
And it's a good fortune to haveinspiring people, so that it's not any
(18:36):
one experience that either pounds youinto pulp so you can't recover from it,
but it's holding all of that together.
And so that it feels like if youhave the good fortune to have these
supports that you have to give backin some way, contribute to leaving
the world a little different, a littlebetter than the one you walked into.
(18:58):
It's a little hard to say that thesedays, Laura, given what we're seeing.
But.
Laura May (19:03):
Yeah, it's, I find it fascinating though,
for a couple of reasons.
One is the framing as a responsibility.
So there's an idea of justicethere, but the second one is the
sort of communal fabric you've justmentioned . Because it made me reflect
upon different ways of doing culture.
(19:24):
Because I mean, the U S where youobviously live nowadays is really
upheld as an example of highlyindividualistic culture where it's
well, I achieved this, I did this.
And then of course, you have theother side of things no, we're all a
community, but I mean, you're goingalmost beyond that in a way to say,
well, we're all achieving this together.
We're all part of each other'sstories in creating this space and
(19:46):
in changing this world, which I findvery thoughtful and thought provoking.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (19:53):
Thank you.
Absolutely.
So my thesis was about person perception.
And what I was doing was a crosscultural study of who you are in the
world and what contributes to it.
So I interviewed hundreds of childrenin India and in the United States.
And looked at the influences thatcontribute to person perception.
(20:14):
And my advisor will say, after youleft, it just grew exponentially.
But in India, who you are in relationto the other, as in collectivist
cultures, is more important thanwhat you accomplish as an individual.
And I think sometimes ofthe fact that, yes, the U.
S.
is a very individualistic culture.
(20:35):
I think it may be my optimism,but I think it's shifting, as
you look at what's happening now.
What is growing is a recognition ofthe value of pluralistic cultures
in which all people thrive.
And if you think historically, whatled to the creation of this republic
(20:57):
as we know it today was that spirit ofadventure by people who left Europe.
Again, not saying anything about theindigenous people who existed here for
centuries before that, but what createdwhat we know as the republic today is
that spirit of exploration, adventure,individualism, creativity, all of that.
And that lasted a few hundred years.
(21:19):
And in some ways it almost feels likethere's a growing recognition that that
may not be what we need for the future.
What we truly need is the sense ofwho we are in relation to each other
that matters for me, that's whatdrives a lot of the work that I do.
Ubuntu, that spirit of Ubuntu, whichwe're now beginning to recognize
(21:41):
the values that cultures aroundthe world bring and integrating it.
And I might sound extremelyoptimistic, but that's the way I
survive what is happening in the U.
S.
And I'm watching this as we set upthe first early warning platform
in this country four years ago.
What I'm watching is this growingthing, ecosystem of networks,
(22:03):
organizations and networks who aretalking about building a pluralistic
culture in which all people thrive.
Very different from the individualisticdemocracy or republic that was
established, there's a real difference.
And it's, coming fromdifferent parts of the world.
It's coming from amazing mediators andpeace builders who have worked around the
(22:24):
world, as well as those who have workeddeeply with indigenous practitioners in
this country who recognize the value ofwho we are in relation to each other.
And that's my hope for this field,that we really step forward.
I mean, I keep tellingpeople, this is our time.
There is a global shift that needs tohappen, that's happening, that we need to
(22:45):
accelerate to recognize that who we are inrelation to each other matters enormously,
and it matters for our survival.
That's the only way this planet andour people and the people will survive.
We cannot do it withindividualistic mindsets.
So there might have been a stage in theevolution of the people on this continent
where certain values might have mattered.
(23:07):
It certainly feels like how werelate to each other matters
tremendously now for our survival.
If we can't pay attention tothat, we're in deep trouble.
And fortunately, we havehundreds of people, thousands of
people who are doing just that.
That is what I findexciting at this moment.
Laura May (23:25):
And you know, I think every single guest I've had in this
podcast would agree with you aswell from practitioner perspectives,
from academic perspectives and fromjust prescriptive desires as well,
they're all very much in line.
Like we need to build people together,like whichever the frame is, whether
it's Ubuntu - had a great guest whoresearched Ubuntu- you know, whether
(23:45):
it's the idea of In Lak'ech for themore Maya languages, like whatever
the origin, I mean, there is, I thinkyou're totally right, this awareness
of we need to do things differently.
And I heard this phrase atan event yesterday, actually.
And I haven't read into it, sodon't judge me if the author
turns out to be problematic or theresearch problematic, but it was,
you can judge me, but that's fine.
(24:08):
And it's this idea of modern liquidity.
Where it's this momentwhere everything is in flux.
the way we work is in flux.
The place we live is in flux.
The world around us is in fluxbecause of climate change and
migrations and extinctions.
And then we have thissocial flux as well.
Everything is moving.
And that's, I think really scaryfor people, or it can be so scary
(24:30):
when everything is changing and like,how do you make your way forward?
Cause this does not match up with thebeliefs and the stories that we've
used in the past to, to navigate lives.
And so I think for me, at least part ofthe answer, is people such as yourself
who are doing this transformativework to create that safe space, the
(24:51):
transformative space as you put it, toallow people to just sit with it and go,
all right, well, this is how I see mypath forward now, and yes, it's different
to the past, it's a rupture, but thisis how I will feel safe moving forward.
This is what I will do.
I really hope the author ofthat work is not problematic.
(25:12):
Oh
Prabha Sankaranarayan (25:15):
find out.
I like it though.
You know, it, it feels different.
Remember that what was it?
VUCA, volatile, uncertain, complex.
V U C A.
There's something more positiveor transformative about liquidity
(25:35):
not in the financial sense, but
Laura May (25:38):
Yeah, well, that's a whole other
Prabha Sankaranarayan (25:40):
story.
It has more of the potential fortransformation to something else is
more embedded in it than, you know,we're in this, complex, complicated,
ambiguous, unpredictable, volatile stage.
We are in all of those and
Laura May (25:56):
Yeah, totally.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (25:57):
anyway.
Laura May (25:59):
Okay.
Well, we've talked a littlebit about internal work and
being an ongoing journey.
And I was wondering if there's anytips you could share for listeners
about some of the practices you useor have found helpful to facilitate
doing that ongoing internal work sothat you can keep moving forward as a
whole and present person, no pressure,
Prabha Sankaranarayan (26:20):
I think it's practice self awareness and practice.
I go back to yoga.
My grandfather was my firstyoga teacher, and he used to do
sirsasanas until he was 90 years old.
And the idea that it is a practice, Ithink, is an important one for all of us.
That it's it's aboutbecoming a craftsman, right?
It's a craft, when you think aboutwhat you do as a craft, and you realize
(26:43):
that it takes constant practice.
And I think the responsibility,practice, self awareness, to practice
being humble about what you'reencountering and what you're bringing
in is tremendously important.
And then holding on to our sense ofcuriosity, Laura, I think there is,
as you said, there's so much that'sshifting and changing and remaining
(27:07):
curious, to me is a practice.
It's so easy to say, Oh,I have the answer to that.
I've seen that.
I've read this.
Here's what the research tells us.
And how do you hold on then to thenotion of people having the capacity
to change from one moment to thenext, from one interaction to the
next, and therein lies the possibilityfor transformation when you bring
(27:31):
people together, but being curiousabout it constantly, I think matters.
It matters because when we losethat curiosity, complacency sets in.
Laura May (27:44):
And that need to complexify things is so, can be
so exhausting and so draining.
And so you need motivation, to go,well, actually, let me just quickly
re examine these deeply held beliefsof mine to check they're still okay.
And that takes a lot.
That takes a lot of work.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (28:01):
It does.
It's constant, it's ongoing, andI would say, being in conversation
with others who are committed tothat kind of engagement is important.
And that's a practicethat can also be fun.
It means I can say, Laura, hey, will,would you be willing to be a part
of a peer support group that committo hold each other accountable?
Laura May (28:23):
Totally.
As long as you don't feelthreatened by potential puns you
can sign me up for anything.
I'm always there.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (28:31):
And that's something we do, Laura, at MBBI.
I mean, all of our interactions beginwith the notion of it begins with us.
And so there's very little of any kindof facilitation or training that we
do does not begin with self awareness.
(28:53):
From all of the influences to ourown conflict styles, to the life
experiences that we carry, intothe spaces we are creating and the
people with whom we are interacting.
So whether it's our Trauma InformedPeacebuilding Program or our Community
Mediation Program or our Global PeaceTraining Institutes, many different
(29:15):
services, that's where we begin andwith connection, connecting with the
people with whom we are in practice.
At this moment of time in theUnited States, as the threats to
the underpinnings of this democraticrepublic are being shaken in so
many ways I would say there arepeople who have stepped forward who
(29:37):
come with just great experiencesand stories and every one of them.
There's a group that has left whatthey were doing internationally to
turn their attention to the UnitedStates, recognizing that the way U.
S.
democracy goes influencesdemocracies around the world.
Whether you like it ornot, that's a reality.
(29:58):
As the largest economy in theworld, as the oldest democracy,
it is extraordinarily powerful.
And I know it's not palatablefor many people to accept that,
Laura May (30:07):
but you can see my face as you're saying this no, the listeners
won't be able to see my face, butyeah, I think not being palatable
is, it's about the right word.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (30:16):
but there's a deep recognition of that, because
many of us are also in conversationwith our colleagues around the
world who are saying, hey, you guysbetter do something about this.
And so lots of really capable peoplehave left their international positions
to focus on the deep work that needs tohappen, recognizing it's not going to
(30:37):
change, in the next 2 years, 3 years, 4years that this is generational change
that we are initiating or enhancing.
Not that it didn't happen before.
So people have shifted fromorganizations in which they were
working globally to focusing on the U.
S.
and I had this opportunity tohear somebody who had worked in U.
S.
government, who had worked as Chief ofStaff for a governor, who had worked as
(31:00):
Chief of Staff in the Clinton and Goreadministration, who had done amazing
work all over this country and all overthe world, who is now deeply involved in
bringing all of those resources to whatis transforming in the United States.
And it may not happen by November.
(31:20):
But the fact that there are hundreds ofpeople bringing their great experiences
to creating the very practicalkinds of things that need to happen.
And so I say that because comingback to awareness and connecting
as people, is critically important.
And the question that alwayscomes up is how do you scale that?
(31:42):
How do you replicate that, right?
Laura May (31:44):
Yeah.
How do you just turn a switch andmake everyone do it in this way?
Is that not a thing?
Like where's the magic button?
Prabha Sankaranarayan (31:50):
Well, you have to ask Colin, because you
know, I think Colin is brilliant andthe ODR work that he's initiated.
He's always talking aboutmillions of cases, right?
Millions all the time.
And I want to make the connectionbetween that container in which that
kind of connected transformationhappens and those millions of cases.
(32:13):
And so I've always, we'vecalled ourselves at Mediators
Beyond Borders multilingual.
And we don't just mean Spanish,French, and German, and English.
We're also talking about speaking thelanguage of psychology, of history,
of anthropology, of sociology, oftalking the languages of mediation,
of peace of, commercial, family,community, all of those, right?
(32:36):
So how do you span the breadth of thechange that happens, or that's possible
when two people come together and whatneeds to happen for a country to shift?
And that's the work that people in the U.
S.
are involved in.
And that's one of our biggest projectsright now is the Trust Network.
Laura May (32:58):
And so I'm going to ask you about that, but just before I do, I'm just
gonna add a little context to listenersin that the Colin that Prabha is talking
about is Colin Rule, the CEO of mediate.
com and ODR.
com.
So just in case you'regoing, who's this Colin guy?
Like did Laura cut outsomething essential?
No, no, no.
We're talking about that Colin.
So we're here to compliment Colin today.
But now let's turn to your trust platform.
(33:19):
So how does that actually work?
Like, what is the trust platform?
Prabha Sankaranarayan (33:24):
So you know, the story is that I have a good
friend and colleague, his name is D.
G.
Monn, he's the head of the NationalAssociation for Community Mediation.
He and I, about eight years ago,started talking to a lot of other
people saying, we really need to beconcerned about what's happening as,
we're all watching as analysts, right?
This is what, we as conflictanalysts do, look at the signs
(33:45):
and say, this is escalating.
It's getting dangerous.
This is not something we can sit by andsay, Oh yes, this democracy will survive
because the signs are much deeper.
And so we started looking at what wasgoing on and tried to get more and
more people to pay attention to it.
And it wasn't until 2020 that as welooked at the escalation of some of those
(34:08):
critical factors in the United Statessaid we really need to do something
to set up an early warning platform.
And what we wanted to do was builda national peace infrastructure.
Because the U.
S., while we have the U.
S.
Institute for Peace in the UnitedStates, guess where it's focused?
Everywhere else in the world.
Laura May (34:23):
Elsewhere.
Yes.
Well, I mean, Juan Diaz, theirsenior mediation advisor has been
a guest and he was my professor, soI do have a soft spot for the U S
Institute of Peace, but I definitelyunderstand where their focus is.
Yeah.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (34:39):
Yes, it's a wonderful institute, but we
don't have, I mean, Nigeria haslegislation that creates it.
Kenya does.
The U.
S.
does not have a peace infrastructure.
We have a war machine, huge one,takes up most of our budget.
Laura May (34:55):
Yes,
Prabha Sankaranarayan: And we don't have one. (34:59):
undefined
And so our goal was to really create apeace infrastructure, an architecture
that brings together the social, racial,environmental justice activists, brings
together all of the legal actors, peoplewho use the law to make change, all
of the structural reform actors, therank choice voting, money in politics,
(35:21):
redistricting, all of those structuraldemocracy and governance actors.
And then the peace and bridge buildingcommunity, that infrastructure that we
created really needs to encompass all ofthese sectors and there might be others.
There are lots of ways of designingthese systems and processes.
And we looked at VeroniqueDoudouez, the original conflict
(35:44):
transformation, which was basicallyactivists and peace builders.
And what we found in the U.
S.
is a very robust structural reformnetwork of actors, which is growing,
hundreds of them, and because ofthe legal history of this country,
there are robust institutions,notwithstanding all the criticism of
it falling apart, this country hasincredible legal institutions that have
(36:09):
really held their own in so many ways.
So I want to be careful that aswe are talking about all of this
transformation that we're not throwingthe baby out with the bathwater.
It's like there are deep, deeplyrespected institutions that are working.
In fact, the last two cases thatthe world was watching might
be testaments to that, right?
Laura May (36:31):
it's good to have that independence of the judiciary.
Right is that, that's quite cool.
We can keep that.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (36:37):
If we can hold on to it, right?
And so we need to build that peaceinfrastructure and begin to build that
network of people coming together andconnecting and sharing information
and amplifying each other's voices.
And at the same time, that theidea of violence escalation is
something we have learned what todo with both from the work in the U.
S.
and the work globally.
(36:58):
And so we started the first earlywarning early response platform.
And at that time, Laura, when we said E.
W.
E.
R.
People went, You are what is that?
Laura May (37:08):
Is that sewer?
Did you forget the S like, okay.
It slipped in there.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (37:15):
So we came together, I mean, we literally put
out a call and amazingly about 25,30 CEOs and executive directors,
the Alliance for Peacebuilding, allthese people came together and said,
yes, this is what we need to do.
And we had these two amazing volunteerswho said, tell us how we can help.
And so the Trust Network was formed as anearly warning, early response platform.
(37:38):
And then at the same time, Dr.
Joe Bach and his team showed upand said, we heard you're setting
up an early warning platform.
We are digital nomads looking for a home.
And I mean, it was just amazing.
It was one of those moments, Laura,where all of these forces came together.
And Sunita and Marcella, the twoamazing women who volunteered at that
(37:59):
time said, tell us what we need to do.
Didn't have a penny of fundingfor any of this at that time.
And Alice Nderitu, who is the theMass Atrocities and Genocide
Prevention Deputy at the UN.
She was the one who said,that's what you need.
This is what we did in Kenya, Ushahidi,Ubiano platform, all of these things that
we know from other parts of the world.
(38:21):
That the U.
S.
needs one.
And we said, Alice, the electionsare barely three months away.
She said, Oh, you can do it.
I will help you.
Laura May (38:30):
Love that.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (38:32):
And so we started it with that idea.
I mean, everyone just volunteered.
I wIll tell you the spirit ofvolunteerism in this country, people
literally worked around the clock,did the social media monitoring,
set up the platform, startedlooking at what was going on in the
communities, started relaying that,we started sharing that information.
(38:56):
And then a couple of foundations cameforward, interestingly, all led by women.
Laura May (39:01):
Yep.
Never heard that before.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (39:05):
So Melanie Greenberg at Humanity
and Nancy Lindborg at Packard.
You know, Nancy came from USIP, soshe's very deeply steeped in this work.
Stepped forward, supported us initially.
And so the Trust Network started withthis idea that we need to both be
able to observe and monitor what'shappening locally at the community
(39:28):
level, and connect at the national policylevel, and then be able to make the
responses at the community level also.
And that's what started theTrust Network 4 years ago.
And, we just had a meeting yesterday.
There are now 35 plus centers.
They're called Trust PlusCenters around the country.
And we just got a Departmentof Justice grant for 3 years
(39:51):
that we are now implementing to
Laura May (39:53):
Wow.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (39:54):
generate the dashboard, so it's, so
things are cooking in the US.
I remember four years ago, our friends,because of the work MBBI has done around
the world, people saying, hey, you werethere for us when we needed your help.
Looks like you folks could use some help.
I remember so many ofour partners saying that.
Laura May (40:15):
my goodness.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (40:16):
And now so Carolyn Lukensmeyer is this person
I was referring to who's workedin government for a long time.
She founded America Speaks, whichis an incredible organization.
And she's doing the mapping ofthese networks in the United States.
And I can't wait to start sharingthis because I think and that's the
part people outside don't hear Laura.
(40:37):
I mean, I talk to my colleagues aroundthe world all the time and all they
see headlines that sound like doomsday
Laura May (40:45):
Um,
Prabha Sankaranarayan (40:46):
What we have not yet managed to
do, we're working really hard.
There's a whole bridging movement.
There's a listen first coalition.
There's a bridge alliance.
There are all kinds of Nanner, allkinds of alliances and networks, right?
And what we are trying todo is break through to the
surface of public awareness.
Because when I talk to neighborsaround, like everything is going to be
(41:08):
all right, there's a part of me that'sreally worried, going folks do you really
understand what's going to happen verysoon, if the elections go a certain
way, there are challenges we are facingtoday with the Supreme Court, with
state governments, with all of this.
We cannot afford to be sanguine.
So I could be panicked aboutit or say we're doing the best
(41:29):
we can and this will take time.
And our job is to make sure as manypeople as possible know about it.
So all of that is happening.
And I want people who are listening toknow that we are doing everything we can
to bring our skills to this republic.
(41:49):
And it's happening from the groundup, from the inside out, from
the top down, every way possible
Laura May (41:55):
every direction, just like it's coming in.
All right.
It's coming into the box ofthe transformative space.
Okay.
And so I'm wondering, I mean, people whoare listening, is there some way they
can get involved or they can supportyou in creating this Trust Network
or in the work of MBBI generally?
Prabha Sankaranarayan (42:12):
Absolutely.
Oh my gosh.
I would say just go tomediatorsbeyondborders.
org.
And join us.
The simplest thing is to join us.
Begin right on top.
If you go to MediatorsBeyondBorders.
org, MediatorsBeyondBorders, one word,dot org, on top of the page is a join
(42:33):
us page that will tell you how you canbecome a part of this global community.
And do the work, no matterwhere in the world you are.
And if you're particularlyinterested in the U.
S.
context, the work that we are doingin the United States, I would say go
to the Trust Network, you know, MBBIis the organizational host for this.
(42:57):
But our work, it's completelyin collaboration with NAFCOM and
the University of Massachusetts.
And so I would say go to the trustnetwork.
net.
and sign up to be somebody in yourcommunity who can be a trusted observer,
interventionist, any of those things.
(43:18):
There's also at the trustnetwork.
net website, there's a join us page,which will tell you about all the
ways in which you can participate.
There are resources there about howyou can work with your local media,
because the media is a big part ofthis, it's don't think we wanna go down
the road of mis- and disinformation.
(43:40):
You probably have other guestswho can talk about that a lot
more eloquently than I can.
But there is somethingthat all of us can do.
And if these are peace practitioners,mediators, facilitators, who are
listening to this podcast to say thereis something that every one of you, every
one of us can do in our own communities.
And that's what those pages arefilled with, resources for you.
Laura May (44:04):
And if you're not yet a facilitator or a mediator, then
give Prabha all of your moneyand she will solve the problems.
Yeah, awesome.
I love that.
Seriously, though, I mean, if you are JoBlogs, beyond giving the money, if you're
there and you're like, look, I want tobe part of helping to identify warning
signals for conflict in my community.
Is that the kind of thing theycan also help you out with?
Prabha Sankaranarayan (44:25):
Absolutely.
Yes, they can.
And so they will go through a registrationand login, because we're looking at
authenticating observers and monitors.
And then, if they are connected tolocal service organizations, they can
do public speaking on our behalf.
They could just speak totheir local book clubs.
They could speak at the libraries.
(44:45):
They could speak whereverpeople need to be alerted to the
importance of voting this year, too.
That's a big deal.
Laura May (44:54):
Absolutely.
Okay.
Now I know that we're at the end of time,so I wanted to ask you, is there anything
I should have asked you, but haven't?
Cause I feel like we couldtalk for three years.
We can always do more episodes.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (45:05):
People are not going to stick around for that long.
Let's see.
Just given this moment if theycan just come and join us, there
are so many ways, Laura, and peopledon't have to be mediators, which
is what I keep telling everyone.
A teacher, nurse, doctors, people inany profession, people finding, looking
for opportunities to get involved inwhat they see as a critical moment,
(45:28):
and this is anywhere in the world.
So one thing I will say is I'mvery excited, we are really not
exactly expanding, but reorganizingthrough collaboration regions.
So it's not chapters.
It's collaboration regions.
We had to stick collaborationinto a reorganization.
And it's all about workingin the local community.
So our Europe group is gatheringin order to do the work in
(45:52):
communities and is focused onnetworks of community mediation.
And so I would say if you're interestedin social cohesion, if you're interested
in just preventing violence in any waythat you can, in all of the contexts in
which you work, check us out, just go tothe website and check us out, and I just
wanted to emphasize that, and Laura,we'll have to come back another time,
(46:13):
you're just so much fun to hang out with.
Laura May (46:15):
Yeah, man.
Like I said, rock and roll.
Okay.
Well, look, Prabha, thank youso much for joining me today.
It's been so nice to see you andto hang out with you after our few
years, a sad few years of break.
But yeah, so thank you somuch for sharing so openly and
wholeheartedly with our listeners.
And yeah, everyone go to MediatorsBeyond Borders and sign up.
(46:37):
Like I said, give Prabha all your money.
So thanks again, Prabha and foreveryone else, until next time,
this is Laura May with the ConflictTipping podcast from Mediate.
com.
Hello, and welcome to the Conflict Tipping Podcast from Mediate.
com.
The podcast that explores socialconflict and what we can do about it.
I'm your host, Laura May.
And today I have with me theincredible Prabha Sankaranarayan.
The president and CEO of MediatorsBeyond Borders International.
She's trained herself to be a reallygood listener and storyteller,
(00:33):
which we can look forward to, and isdedicated to listening and conflict
transformation as a constant practice.
Prabha is an adrenaline junkie who enjoyshiking rafting, climbing, and yoga.
So welcome Prabha.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (00:49):
Thank you, Laura.
What a pleasure and a treat tobe back in conversation with you.
Laura May (00:55):
Absolutely.
Because we got to know each othera little bit when I was leading the
International Mediation Institute.
And we were sort of sneakilytrying to find ways to bring
the mediation world together.
So we made some steps in that direction.
So it's great to reunite a few yearsdown the track and be talking all things
conflict and all things Prabha as well.
What was the start of your journey?
(01:16):
How did you get to where you are today?
Prabha Sankaranarayan (01:18):
Let me see.
You know, I knew at 15what I wanted to be.
I didn't know that I would want to beseveral different professions, and so I
spent the first 20 years as a therapistworking primarily with children and
families, because I always knew that Iwanted to work with children and that
I wanted to work with children who werehurt from a variety of things, for a
(01:41):
variety of reasons, by all kinds ofthings, children hurt by their families,
by accidents, by physiological, geneticchallenges, all of those things.
And so I was going along doing thatand really finding it very meaningful.
And there was a moment I wasseeing a couple and they had
come because they just wanted tofigure out how to be good parents.
(02:05):
They were going through a divorce ina country they had immigrated to, in
which they didn't feel particularlysupported, had all kinds of cultural
expectations of themselves and eachother and were really challenged.
And I used to get a lot of referrals fromthe court system because the judges knew
me from my child advocacy work over thedecades and they would just say, go sort
(02:27):
it out, Prabha, figure out what kind of acustody arrangement we can come up with.
Anyway, so I started seeing themand, you know, at a certain point,
Laura, I just realized, you know, Idon't have the skills to help them.
I really need to figure out how Ican be helpful to people who are at a
(02:48):
different phase, have a different kindof need than the skills I had trained
myself for the previous 20 years.
And I reached out to a friendwho suggested a custody mediation
training, and I will say that wasthe beginning for me of a complete
switch in what I started to focus on.
(03:08):
It wasn't a complete switch ineverything I did, but I started down
that path, and it was also aroundthis time that I had just come back
from Sri Lanka after the tsunami.
Um, And I had been working with a group ofpeople, providing psychological first aid,
and trauma has always been my specialty,and had these amazing conversations with
(03:33):
these young women who were returned byUNHCR, by the Tamil Tigers, and were
staying in the same orphanage that wewere staying in, and all of these things
happened at the same time, and what Ithink it did was made me realize that I
didn't just want to work with familieswho had been impacted by violence, but
(03:54):
wanted to work upstream, really do theprevention generationally, recognizing
that so many of the children who are hurtwhen they don't get the help they need,
end up perpetrating acts of violence.
And that's a responsibility we have,we all have, and so I really wanted
to move in the direction of preventingrather than intervening after the fact.
(04:21):
And that just began my journeyof exploring everything
I could about mediation.
I did custody mediation, I did eldermediation, and I did community mediation.
And then I gradually realized myinterest was really in intercultural
work, and bringing together mybackground as a trauma specialist,
along with peace building.
And here we are, 20 years later.
Laura May (04:44):
I find it really interesting that you started
with this almost micro thing.
I mean, it's obviously a big problem,severe problem, hurt children.
And it's like you zoomed out and out,both in terms of the people involved, also
the time spans involved, until you wentto, no, let's bring cultures together.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (05:00):
That's, I go back to that experience because It
was one of inadequacy in some ways,of feeling frustrated that I wasn't
doing what I had trained myself to do,which is to be a person who can create
space in which transformation happens.
And so it was the beginning of therecognition of all the different ways
(05:25):
in which you can create those spaces.
Containers have always been sacred forme, whether it's a therapeutic container
or a conflict transformation container,a facilitation container, that what
goes into the kinds of containersyou create is incredibly important.
It's something, you know, people likeyou, you're a facilitator you give a
(05:50):
lot of thought to what you do beforeyou walk into a room with people.
You've thought so much aboutwhat goes into all of that.
And so it was that moment, butI think it was a collection
of those kinds of moments.
It was also those moments oflooking into the deep, dark pools
(06:13):
of those girls who had been childsoldiers, they had carried weapons.
They had done incredibly painful things.
They had incredibly painfulthings happen to them.
So I think for me, it's a collection ofthose moments of interactions with people.
And ultimately, changefor me comes back to that.
It's that kind ofrelational transformation.
(06:35):
Yes, it was as you said aninteraction that was personal
that grew into something more.
But I had also been doinglarge community work by then.
I had done some of the work with FEMA inthe United States and Homeland Security
after 9 11, where I had been workingwith families impacted by horrendous
(06:57):
tragedy, as well as with communitiesof professionals who had responded.
And we used to have these large groupsessions with people who were impacted
in order to help them cope with thoseexperiences and connect them with
others who had these shared experiences.
(07:17):
And so community wideexperiences and community wide
transformation as a clinician wassomething I was familiar with.
Now I felt like I was addinga whole set of skills.
You know how you have those momentswhen you've taken an amazing
training by an amazing facilitator?
And windows just open up and yousee the world so differently.
(07:40):
It's never the same again.
Laura May (07:43):
Absolutely.
That's how mediationtraining was for me as well.
So I completely knowwhere you're coming from.
Like, oh, my world just changed.
I wasn't expecting this.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (07:53):
Yes, exactly.
And then you know, I took anothertraining, I will say, I'm looking
at this image of my friend andcolleague, Dave Joseph, who's
an amazing dialogue facilitator.
And that was another one ofthose incredible moments.
You know, Dave was at EssentialPartners at that time.
And he's just, he was sadly,we lost him a few years ago.
(08:14):
Dave was just one of those absolutelyincredible people who you can't but
have your life be touched when youhave experienced his friendship.
You know, there are integrative minds,there are people who specialize, and then
there are people who integrate poetryand drama and history and philosophy and
art and bring it all together in theirwork, and Dave was one of those, and
(08:39):
he was funny as all get out too, but itwas his dialogue training that also made
me look at all of this transformativework as really needing a solid base,
but also needing to be somethingthat we have to be flexible with.
You can't, it's when peoplesay, is mediation what you do?
I say, no, you know, at MediatorsBeyond Borders, we are all
(09:00):
multimodal practitioners.
There isn't just one thing we do.
So it's mediation, it's dialogue, it'srestorative circles, it's facilitation,
it's consensus building, it's joint factfinding, it's group decision making, it's
all of those processes that ultimatelyrequire us to work collaboratively.
Laura May (09:20):
Absolutely.
I definitely want to come back to that,but first I actually want to circle
back to your own origin story, likea superhero origin story in a way.
I can see you in a cape, Prabha,like I need to maybe a cape and a
crown, to be honest, like I feel likeyou deserve both, but I was really
struck by the language you used whenyou were talking about this journey.
(09:45):
Cause you said that on the one hand,there was this dedication to saving hurt
children in whichever way they were hurt.
And then you described yourself assomeone who's always been committed
to creating spaces for transformation.
And if it's not too personal, for you toshare, where does that drive come from?
Cause this is the kind of thingthat's come up quite a few times
(10:06):
in this podcast, people's stories.
It's like something that they want toresolve for themselves and that's what
drives them and continues to drivethem and their passion in the work.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (10:17):
You know, at various stages in my life, that's the
kind of question therapists and mediatorsask themselves as they're in their
own self examination processes, right?
Because it all begins within.
All of this.
From belief that when you enter aroom, what you bring in, that's why
the acknowledgement of the past.
(10:39):
And the shoulders of the people youknow, stand on, the work that has
been done before is also critical.
It goes back to family for me.
I think it goes back to the influence of,extraordinary people that I was really
extremely fortunate to have in my life.
And the time I grew up in, I thinkalso, and the place I grew up in, these
(11:02):
are all parts of our history, right?
So I grew up in post independenceIndia, and my grandfather was
one of five journalists who waswitness to the Declaration of
Independence, to the signing of it,
Laura May (11:14):
Wow.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (11:15):
and
Laura May (11:16):
That's epic.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (11:16):
it, It is, and I happen to have the
good fortune to have been thefavorite grandchild, so I have this
Laura May (11:24):
Of course, course.
I wouldn't expect anything less.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (11:27):
Wonderful cousins.
They're amazing people.
But I, have what he wrote, hisoriginal words after that event
that he wrote to his family, to hiswife and children and grandchildren.
And, I've always thought aboutthat, you know, that the kinds
of things they did mattered.
(11:48):
And so the kind of person hewas mattered tremendously.
He was a great influence in my life.
Teaching me to question things in aculture where girls were not encouraged
to question to challenge authority.
So I grew up in that culture,India in the sixties and seventies.
And again, it's not one India,as you know, there are so many
(12:09):
different influences, but so hisinfluence, my family influence.
I have you know, had a father whohad his own tragic story and we
grew up knowing about him beingorphaned by the time he was 11.
And he rose to become the head of oneof the largest banks in the country.
He was a finance ministry appointee,traveled around the world, in my house
(12:34):
there were people from all over theworld all the time, and so he was another
one who, when I said I'm going away tocollege, the first person in my family
to go away, first girl to go away.
He was the one who said yes before Iwent to my mother, who said, 'Well, who
said you could do that?' And I said, Appa
Laura May (12:53):
Nice.
You chose the right parent to ask.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (12:57):
Um, So those influences mattered.
And and I think personalexperiences that we have.
I also, uh, had my ownexperience of sexual violence.
Grew up in a family thatwas impacted by alcoholism.
(13:19):
You know, people can carryall these different aspects.
So here is this amazing man who carriesthe honor of his family very deeply.
At the same time, his own historycontributes to the ways in which he copes.
And one of them was notparticularly healthy.
And we felt the brunt of that sometimes.
And my mother, you know, she wasa child development expert at
(13:42):
a time when that didn't exist.
She was extraordinarily protective.
Just knew the right things to do to makesure that no matter what happened, we were
kept safe to the extent that she could.
So when I crashed my car, becauseI drove without permission,
I didn't go to my father.
I went to my mother at that time,
Laura May (14:02):
Nice.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (14:02):
who said
Laura May (14:03):
Well, you really knew which parent to go to.
You're like, this isthe column for my dad.
This is the column for my mom.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (14:10):
exactly.
Oh, so I think those earlyinfluences and the times.
When I was in college Indira Gandhideclared emergency rule, and we protested.
I was 16 at that time and we were marchingbecause of the suspension of civil rights.
(14:30):
By the time I was in grad school,we were marching for women's rights.
So being an activist, I thinkpartly comes from that generation of
influence of people who fought forindependence, that you have to do
something about what you want to change.
So creating that kind of transformation,whether it's in the spaces you create or
(14:52):
in the activism that you choose to engagein, that we can be agents of change was,
I think, a lesson I learned very early.
Laura May (15:01):
You know, I love and somehow also a little surprised
by the way you framed this . Thisis not a criticism, by the way.
It's just a reflection on someof the other stories I've heard.
It's that I'm hearing that theseexperiences have been really,
almost empowering, inspirational,as opposed to necessarily leading
you to be driven by fear or anxietyor anger, or like a burning need to
(15:25):
fix things or externalize things.
Maybe it's because you have that historyas a psychologist as well, because this
is something that a number of my guestson this podcast have reflected upon.
It's well, what do I need to fixin the world to complete myself?
And yet that's not really something I'mhearing in what you're sharing, which
I think is, and I mean, hopefully I'mhearing correctly, but it's exceptional
(15:47):
in a way, because that's not thestory you often hear from mediators.
It's that, yes, I've had these adverseexperiences, but it's the empowerment
and inspiration and the knowledgethat I can do something to change
things that keeps driving you forward.
So it's fascinating to me.
That's why I'm like, yeah, I'm alittle surprised, but I love this.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (16:08):
You are such a good listener, Laura.
This is, you know, partof this is exploration.
Yes, listen to you.
And I'm listening to yourreflection and thinking that's true.
That's true.
It is the ongoing quest to both understandoneself, the influences in our lives, and
(16:29):
engage in a way that is transformative.
That's, it's got to be that, I think.
And that feels like a responsibility insome ways, because I had a wonderful
family, I have a wonderful family,it's a huge extended family that has
all kinds of amazing people in it.
And one of my role models is this auntof mine who died at 95, lived in D.
(16:53):
C., tiny little woman.
If you think I'm short, small,she was smaller than me.
And she just had this influence on people.
She came through a lot also in herlife as she grew up in India, moved
to this country, raised two children,and then spent the second half of
her life teaching and volunteeringand doing all kinds of amazing things
(17:18):
that we were fortunate to have thoseinfluences in our lives, right?
So I feel like there's a responsibility.
I had incredible teachers.
I'm in a WhatsApp group with my highschool classmates from Bangalore.
And Oh,
Laura May (17:33):
how many people are in it?
Cause I don't know what the standardhigh school class size is in Bangalore.
But also I'm amazed cause I mean,that was a little while ago, it
was at least two or three years,
Prabha Sankaranarayan: You can say that, Laura. (17:45):
undefined
Yes,
Laura May (17:47):
okay,
Prabha Sankaranarayan: it was 40 years ago. (17:48):
undefined
I can say that.
No, there are about 15 20 of usand they're all over the world.
Some of them are in India.
Some are in Canada.
Some are in the U.
S.
And what's incredible about thisgroup of classmates is they're doctors
and accountants and I T specialistsand therapists and mediators and
(18:10):
just it's an incredible group ofpeople and we've stayed connected.
Thank you, Facebook, which is how wefirst got connected and then shifted
to a private conversation, right?
But we talk about our teachersand their influence and remember
them and how they influenced us.
And it's a good fortune to haveinspiring people, so that it's not any
(18:36):
one experience that either pounds youinto pulp so you can't recover from it,
but it's holding all of that together.
And so that it feels like if youhave the good fortune to have these
supports that you have to give backin some way, contribute to leaving
the world a little different, a littlebetter than the one you walked into.
(18:58):
It's a little hard to say that thesedays, Laura, given what we're seeing.
But.
Laura May (19:03):
Yeah, it's, I find it fascinating though,
for a couple of reasons.
One is the framing as a responsibility.
So there's an idea of justicethere, but the second one is the
sort of communal fabric you've justmentioned . Because it made me reflect
upon different ways of doing culture.
(19:24):
Because I mean, the U S where youobviously live nowadays is really
upheld as an example of highlyindividualistic culture where it's
well, I achieved this, I did this.
And then of course, you have theother side of things no, we're all a
community, but I mean, you're goingalmost beyond that in a way to say,
well, we're all achieving this together.
We're all part of each other'sstories in creating this space and
(19:46):
in changing this world, which I findvery thoughtful and thought provoking.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (19:53):
Thank you.
Absolutely.
So my thesis was about person perception.
And what I was doing was a crosscultural study of who you are in the
world and what contributes to it.
So I interviewed hundreds of childrenin India and in the United States.
And looked at the influences thatcontribute to person perception.
(20:14):
And my advisor will say, after youleft, it just grew exponentially.
But in India, who you are in relationto the other, as in collectivist
cultures, is more important thanwhat you accomplish as an individual.
And I think sometimes ofthe fact that, yes, the U.
S.
is a very individualistic culture.
(20:35):
I think it may be my optimism,but I think it's shifting, as
you look at what's happening now.
What is growing is a recognition ofthe value of pluralistic cultures
in which all people thrive.
And if you think historically, whatled to the creation of this republic
(20:57):
as we know it today was that spirit ofadventure by people who left Europe.
Again, not saying anything about theindigenous people who existed here for
centuries before that, but what createdwhat we know as the republic today is
that spirit of exploration, adventure,individualism, creativity, all of that.
And that lasted a few hundred years.
(21:19):
And in some ways it almost feels likethere's a growing recognition that that
may not be what we need for the future.
What we truly need is the sense ofwho we are in relation to each other
that matters for me, that's whatdrives a lot of the work that I do.
Ubuntu, that spirit of Ubuntu, whichwe're now beginning to recognize
(21:41):
the values that cultures aroundthe world bring and integrating it.
And I might sound extremelyoptimistic, but that's the way I
survive what is happening in the U.
S.
And I'm watching this as we set upthe first early warning platform
in this country four years ago.
What I'm watching is this growingthing, ecosystem of networks,
(22:03):
organizations and networks who aretalking about building a pluralistic
culture in which all people thrive.
Very different from the individualisticdemocracy or republic that was
established, there's a real difference.
And it's, coming fromdifferent parts of the world.
It's coming from amazing mediators andpeace builders who have worked around the
(22:24):
world, as well as those who have workeddeeply with indigenous practitioners in
this country who recognize the value ofwho we are in relation to each other.
And that's my hope for this field,that we really step forward.
I mean, I keep tellingpeople, this is our time.
There is a global shift that needs tohappen, that's happening, that we need to
(22:45):
accelerate to recognize that who we are inrelation to each other matters enormously,
and it matters for our survival.
That's the only way this planet andour people and the people will survive.
We cannot do it withindividualistic mindsets.
So there might have been a stage in theevolution of the people on this continent
where certain values might have mattered.
(23:07):
It certainly feels like how werelate to each other matters
tremendously now for our survival.
If we can't pay attention tothat, we're in deep trouble.
And fortunately, we havehundreds of people, thousands of
people who are doing just that.
That is what I findexciting at this moment.
Laura May (23:25):
And you know, I think every single guest I've had in this
podcast would agree with you aswell from practitioner perspectives,
from academic perspectives and fromjust prescriptive desires as well,
they're all very much in line.
Like we need to build people together,like whichever the frame is, whether
it's Ubuntu - had a great guest whoresearched Ubuntu- you know, whether
(23:45):
it's the idea of In Lak'ech for themore Maya languages, like whatever
the origin, I mean, there is, I thinkyou're totally right, this awareness
of we need to do things differently.
And I heard this phrase atan event yesterday, actually.
And I haven't read into it, sodon't judge me if the author
turns out to be problematic or theresearch problematic, but it was,
you can judge me, but that's fine.
(24:08):
And it's this idea of modern liquidity.
Where it's this momentwhere everything is in flux.
the way we work is in flux.
The place we live is in flux.
The world around us is in fluxbecause of climate change and
migrations and extinctions.
And then we have thissocial flux as well.
Everything is moving.
And that's, I think really scaryfor people, or it can be so scary
(24:30):
when everything is changing and like,how do you make your way forward?
Cause this does not match up with thebeliefs and the stories that we've
used in the past to, to navigate lives.
And so I think for me, at least part ofthe answer, is people such as yourself
who are doing this transformativework to create that safe space, the
(24:51):
transformative space as you put it, toallow people to just sit with it and go,
all right, well, this is how I see mypath forward now, and yes, it's different
to the past, it's a rupture, but thisis how I will feel safe moving forward.
This is what I will do.
I really hope the author ofthat work is not problematic.
(25:12):
Oh
Prabha Sankaranarayan (25:15):
find out.
I like it though.
You know, it, it feels different.
Remember that what was it?
VUCA, volatile, uncertain, complex.
V U C A.
There's something more positiveor transformative about liquidity
(25:35):
not in the financial sense, but
Laura May (25:38):
Yeah, well, that's a whole other
Prabha Sankaranarayan (25:40):
story.
It has more of the potential fortransformation to something else is
more embedded in it than, you know,we're in this, complex, complicated,
ambiguous, unpredictable, volatile stage.
We are in all of those and
Laura May (25:56):
Yeah, totally.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (25:57):
anyway.
Laura May (25:59):
Okay.
Well, we've talked a littlebit about internal work and
being an ongoing journey.
And I was wondering if there's anytips you could share for listeners
about some of the practices you useor have found helpful to facilitate
doing that ongoing internal work sothat you can keep moving forward as a
whole and present person, no pressure,
Prabha Sankaranarayan (26:20):
I think it's practice self awareness and practice.
I go back to yoga.
My grandfather was my firstyoga teacher, and he used to do
sirsasanas until he was 90 years old.
And the idea that it is a practice, Ithink, is an important one for all of us.
That it's it's aboutbecoming a craftsman, right?
It's a craft, when you think aboutwhat you do as a craft, and you realize
(26:43):
that it takes constant practice.
And I think the responsibility,practice, self awareness, to practice
being humble about what you'reencountering and what you're bringing
in is tremendously important.
And then holding on to our sense ofcuriosity, Laura, I think there is,
as you said, there's so much that'sshifting and changing and remaining
(27:07):
curious, to me is a practice.
It's so easy to say, Oh,I have the answer to that.
I've seen that.
I've read this.
Here's what the research tells us.
And how do you hold on then to thenotion of people having the capacity
to change from one moment to thenext, from one interaction to the
next, and therein lies the possibilityfor transformation when you bring
(27:31):
people together, but being curiousabout it constantly, I think matters.
It matters because when we losethat curiosity, complacency sets in.
Laura May (27:44):
And that need to complexify things is so, can be
so exhausting and so draining.
And so you need motivation, to go,well, actually, let me just quickly
re examine these deeply held beliefsof mine to check they're still okay.
And that takes a lot.
That takes a lot of work.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (28:01):
It does.
It's constant, it's ongoing, andI would say, being in conversation
with others who are committed tothat kind of engagement is important.
And that's a practicethat can also be fun.
It means I can say, Laura, hey, will,would you be willing to be a part
of a peer support group that committo hold each other accountable?
Laura May (28:23):
Totally.
As long as you don't feelthreatened by potential puns you
can sign me up for anything.
I'm always there.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (28:31):
And that's something we do, Laura, at MBBI.
I mean, all of our interactions beginwith the notion of it begins with us.
And so there's very little of any kindof facilitation or training that we
do does not begin with self awareness.
(28:53):
From all of the influences to ourown conflict styles, to the life
experiences that we carry, intothe spaces we are creating and the
people with whom we are interacting.
So whether it's our Trauma InformedPeacebuilding Program or our Community
Mediation Program or our Global PeaceTraining Institutes, many different
(29:15):
services, that's where we begin andwith connection, connecting with the
people with whom we are in practice.
At this moment of time in theUnited States, as the threats to
the underpinnings of this democraticrepublic are being shaken in so
many ways I would say there arepeople who have stepped forward who
(29:37):
come with just great experiencesand stories and every one of them.
There's a group that has left whatthey were doing internationally to
turn their attention to the UnitedStates, recognizing that the way U.
S.
democracy goes influencesdemocracies around the world.
Whether you like it ornot, that's a reality.
(29:58):
As the largest economy in theworld, as the oldest democracy,
it is extraordinarily powerful.
And I know it's not palatablefor many people to accept that,
Laura May (30:07):
but you can see my face as you're saying this no, the listeners
won't be able to see my face, butyeah, I think not being palatable
is, it's about the right word.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (30:16):
but there's a deep recognition of that, because
many of us are also in conversationwith our colleagues around the
world who are saying, hey, you guysbetter do something about this.
And so lots of really capable peoplehave left their international positions
to focus on the deep work that needs tohappen, recognizing it's not going to
(30:37):
change, in the next 2 years, 3 years, 4years that this is generational change
that we are initiating or enhancing.
Not that it didn't happen before.
So people have shifted fromorganizations in which they were
working globally to focusing on the U.
S.
and I had this opportunity tohear somebody who had worked in U.
S.
government, who had worked as Chief ofStaff for a governor, who had worked as
(31:00):
Chief of Staff in the Clinton and Goreadministration, who had done amazing
work all over this country and all overthe world, who is now deeply involved in
bringing all of those resources to whatis transforming in the United States.
And it may not happen by November.
(31:20):
But the fact that there are hundreds ofpeople bringing their great experiences
to creating the very practicalkinds of things that need to happen.
And so I say that because comingback to awareness and connecting
as people, is critically important.
And the question that alwayscomes up is how do you scale that?
(31:42):
How do you replicate that, right?
Laura May (31:44):
Yeah.
How do you just turn a switch andmake everyone do it in this way?
Is that not a thing?
Like where's the magic button?
Prabha Sankaranarayan (31:50):
Well, you have to ask Colin, because you
know, I think Colin is brilliant andthe ODR work that he's initiated.
He's always talking aboutmillions of cases, right?
Millions all the time.
And I want to make the connectionbetween that container in which that
kind of connected transformationhappens and those millions of cases.
(32:13):
And so I've always, we'vecalled ourselves at Mediators
Beyond Borders multilingual.
And we don't just mean Spanish,French, and German, and English.
We're also talking about speaking thelanguage of psychology, of history,
of anthropology, of sociology, oftalking the languages of mediation,
of peace of, commercial, family,community, all of those, right?
(32:36):
So how do you span the breadth of thechange that happens, or that's possible
when two people come together and whatneeds to happen for a country to shift?
And that's the work that people in the U.
S.
are involved in.
And that's one of our biggest projectsright now is the Trust Network.
Laura May (32:58):
And so I'm going to ask you about that, but just before I do, I'm just
gonna add a little context to listenersin that the Colin that Prabha is talking
about is Colin Rule, the CEO of mediate.
com and ODR.
com.
So just in case you'regoing, who's this Colin guy?
Like did Laura cut outsomething essential?
No, no, no.
We're talking about that Colin.
So we're here to compliment Colin today.
But now let's turn to your trust platform.
(33:19):
So how does that actually work?
Like, what is the trust platform?
Prabha Sankaranarayan (33:24):
So you know, the story is that I have a good
friend and colleague, his name is D.
G.
Monn, he's the head of the NationalAssociation for Community Mediation.
He and I, about eight years ago,started talking to a lot of other
people saying, we really need to beconcerned about what's happening as,
we're all watching as analysts, right?
This is what, we as conflictanalysts do, look at the signs
(33:45):
and say, this is escalating.
It's getting dangerous.
This is not something we can sit by andsay, Oh yes, this democracy will survive
because the signs are much deeper.
And so we started looking at what wasgoing on and tried to get more and
more people to pay attention to it.
And it wasn't until 2020 that as welooked at the escalation of some of those
(34:08):
critical factors in the United Statessaid we really need to do something
to set up an early warning platform.
And what we wanted to do was builda national peace infrastructure.
Because the U.
S., while we have the U.
S.
Institute for Peace in the UnitedStates, guess where it's focused?
Everywhere else in the world.
Laura May (34:23):
Elsewhere.
Yes.
Well, I mean, Juan Diaz, theirsenior mediation advisor has been
a guest and he was my professor, soI do have a soft spot for the U S
Institute of Peace, but I definitelyunderstand where their focus is.
Yeah.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (34:39):
Yes, it's a wonderful institute, but we
don't have, I mean, Nigeria haslegislation that creates it.
Kenya does.
The U.
S.
does not have a peace infrastructure.
We have a war machine, huge one,takes up most of our budget.
Laura May (34:55):
Yes,
Prabha Sankaranarayan: And we don't have one. (34:59):
undefined
And so our goal was to really create apeace infrastructure, an architecture
that brings together the social, racial,environmental justice activists, brings
together all of the legal actors, peoplewho use the law to make change, all
of the structural reform actors, therank choice voting, money in politics,
(35:21):
redistricting, all of those structuraldemocracy and governance actors.
And then the peace and bridge buildingcommunity, that infrastructure that we
created really needs to encompass all ofthese sectors and there might be others.
There are lots of ways of designingthese systems and processes.
And we looked at VeroniqueDoudouez, the original conflict
(35:44):
transformation, which was basicallyactivists and peace builders.
And what we found in the U.
S.
is a very robust structural reformnetwork of actors, which is growing,
hundreds of them, and because ofthe legal history of this country,
there are robust institutions,notwithstanding all the criticism of
it falling apart, this country hasincredible legal institutions that have
(36:09):
really held their own in so many ways.
So I want to be careful that aswe are talking about all of this
transformation that we're not throwingthe baby out with the bathwater.
It's like there are deep, deeplyrespected institutions that are working.
In fact, the last two cases thatthe world was watching might
be testaments to that, right?
Laura May (36:31):
it's good to have that independence of the judiciary.
Right is that, that's quite cool.
We can keep that.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (36:37):
If we can hold on to it, right?
And so we need to build that peaceinfrastructure and begin to build that
network of people coming together andconnecting and sharing information
and amplifying each other's voices.
And at the same time, that theidea of violence escalation is
something we have learned what todo with both from the work in the U.
S.
and the work globally.
(36:58):
And so we started the first earlywarning early response platform.
And at that time, Laura, when we said E.
W.
E.
R.
People went, You are what is that?
Laura May (37:08):
Is that sewer?
Did you forget the S like, okay.
It slipped in there.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (37:15):
So we came together, I mean, we literally put
out a call and amazingly about 25,30 CEOs and executive directors,
the Alliance for Peacebuilding, allthese people came together and said,
yes, this is what we need to do.
And we had these two amazing volunteerswho said, tell us how we can help.
And so the Trust Network was formed as anearly warning, early response platform.
(37:38):
And then at the same time, Dr.
Joe Bach and his team showed upand said, we heard you're setting
up an early warning platform.
We are digital nomads looking for a home.
And I mean, it was just amazing.
It was one of those moments, Laura,where all of these forces came together.
And Sunita and Marcella, the twoamazing women who volunteered at that
(37:59):
time said, tell us what we need to do.
Didn't have a penny of fundingfor any of this at that time.
And Alice Nderitu, who is the theMass Atrocities and Genocide
Prevention Deputy at the UN.
She was the one who said,that's what you need.
This is what we did in Kenya, Ushahidi,Ubiano platform, all of these things that
we know from other parts of the world.
(38:21):
That the U.
S.
needs one.
And we said, Alice, the electionsare barely three months away.
She said, Oh, you can do it.
I will help you.
Laura May (38:30):
Love that.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (38:32):
And so we started it with that idea.
I mean, everyone just volunteered.
I wIll tell you the spirit ofvolunteerism in this country, people
literally worked around the clock,did the social media monitoring,
set up the platform, startedlooking at what was going on in the
communities, started relaying that,we started sharing that information.
(38:56):
And then a couple of foundations cameforward, interestingly, all led by women.
Laura May (39:01):
Yep.
Never heard that before.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (39:05):
So Melanie Greenberg at Humanity
and Nancy Lindborg at Packard.
You know, Nancy came from USIP, soshe's very deeply steeped in this work.
Stepped forward, supported us initially.
And so the Trust Network started withthis idea that we need to both be
able to observe and monitor what'shappening locally at the community
(39:28):
level, and connect at the national policylevel, and then be able to make the
responses at the community level also.
And that's what started theTrust Network 4 years ago.
And, we just had a meeting yesterday.
There are now 35 plus centers.
They're called Trust PlusCenters around the country.
And we just got a Departmentof Justice grant for 3 years
(39:51):
that we are now implementing to
Laura May (39:53):
Wow.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (39:54):
generate the dashboard, so it's, so
things are cooking in the US.
I remember four years ago, our friends,because of the work MBBI has done around
the world, people saying, hey, you werethere for us when we needed your help.
Looks like you folks could use some help.
I remember so many ofour partners saying that.
Laura May (40:15):
my goodness.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (40:16):
And now so Carolyn Lukensmeyer is this person
I was referring to who's workedin government for a long time.
She founded America Speaks, whichis an incredible organization.
And she's doing the mapping ofthese networks in the United States.
And I can't wait to start sharingthis because I think and that's the
part people outside don't hear Laura.
(40:37):
I mean, I talk to my colleagues aroundthe world all the time and all they
see headlines that sound like doomsday
Laura May (40:45):
Um,
Prabha Sankaranarayan (40:46):
What we have not yet managed to
do, we're working really hard.
There's a whole bridging movement.
There's a listen first coalition.
There's a bridge alliance.
There are all kinds of Nanner, allkinds of alliances and networks, right?
And what we are trying todo is break through to the
surface of public awareness.
Because when I talk to neighborsaround, like everything is going to be
(41:08):
all right, there's a part of me that'sreally worried, going folks do you really
understand what's going to happen verysoon, if the elections go a certain
way, there are challenges we are facingtoday with the Supreme Court, with
state governments, with all of this.
We cannot afford to be sanguine.
So I could be panicked aboutit or say we're doing the best
(41:29):
we can and this will take time.
And our job is to make sure as manypeople as possible know about it.
So all of that is happening.
And I want people who are listening toknow that we are doing everything we can
to bring our skills to this republic.
(41:49):
And it's happening from the groundup, from the inside out, from
the top down, every way possible
Laura May (41:55):
every direction, just like it's coming in.
All right.
It's coming into the box ofthe transformative space.
Okay.
And so I'm wondering, I mean, people whoare listening, is there some way they
can get involved or they can supportyou in creating this Trust Network
or in the work of MBBI generally?
Prabha Sankaranarayan (42:12):
Absolutely.
Oh my gosh.
I would say just go tomediatorsbeyondborders.
org.
And join us.
The simplest thing is to join us.
Begin right on top.
If you go to MediatorsBeyondBorders.
org, MediatorsBeyondBorders, one word,dot org, on top of the page is a join
(42:33):
us page that will tell you how you canbecome a part of this global community.
And do the work, no matterwhere in the world you are.
And if you're particularlyinterested in the U.
S.
context, the work that we are doingin the United States, I would say go
to the Trust Network, you know, MBBIis the organizational host for this.
(42:57):
But our work, it's completelyin collaboration with NAFCOM and
the University of Massachusetts.
And so I would say go to the trustnetwork.
net.
and sign up to be somebody in yourcommunity who can be a trusted observer,
interventionist, any of those things.
(43:18):
There's also at the trustnetwork.
net website, there's a join us page,which will tell you about all the
ways in which you can participate.
There are resources there about howyou can work with your local media,
because the media is a big part ofthis, it's don't think we wanna go down
the road of mis- and disinformation.
(43:40):
You probably have other guestswho can talk about that a lot
more eloquently than I can.
But there is somethingthat all of us can do.
And if these are peace practitioners,mediators, facilitators, who are
listening to this podcast to say thereis something that every one of you, every
one of us can do in our own communities.
And that's what those pages arefilled with, resources for you.
Laura May (44:04):
And if you're not yet a facilitator or a mediator, then
give Prabha all of your moneyand she will solve the problems.
Yeah, awesome.
I love that.
Seriously, though, I mean, if you are JoBlogs, beyond giving the money, if you're
there and you're like, look, I want tobe part of helping to identify warning
signals for conflict in my community.
Is that the kind of thing theycan also help you out with?
Prabha Sankaranarayan (44:25):
Absolutely.
Yes, they can.
And so they will go through a registrationand login, because we're looking at
authenticating observers and monitors.
And then, if they are connected tolocal service organizations, they can
do public speaking on our behalf.
They could just speak totheir local book clubs.
They could speak at the libraries.
(44:45):
They could speak whereverpeople need to be alerted to the
importance of voting this year, too.
That's a big deal.
Laura May (44:54):
Absolutely.
Okay.
Now I know that we're at the end of time,so I wanted to ask you, is there anything
I should have asked you, but haven't?
Cause I feel like we couldtalk for three years.
We can always do more episodes.
Prabha Sankaranarayan (45:05):
People are not going to stick around for that long.
Let's see.
Just given this moment if theycan just come and join us, there
are so many ways, Laura, and peopledon't have to be mediators, which
is what I keep telling everyone.
A teacher, nurse, doctors, people inany profession, people finding, looking
for opportunities to get involved inwhat they see as a critical moment,
(45:28):
and this is anywhere in the world.
So one thing I will say is I'mvery excited, we are really not
exactly expanding, but reorganizingthrough collaboration regions.
So it's not chapters.
It's collaboration regions.
We had to stick collaborationinto a reorganization.
And it's all about workingin the local community.
So our Europe group is gatheringin order to do the work in
(45:52):
communities and is focused onnetworks of community mediation.
And so I would say if you're interestedin social cohesion, if you're interested
in just preventing violence in any waythat you can, in all of the contexts in
which you work, check us out, just go tothe website and check us out, and I just
wanted to emphasize that, and Laura,we'll have to come back another time,
(46:13):
you're just so much fun to hang out with.
Laura May (46:15):
Yeah, man.
Like I said, rock and roll.
Okay.
Well, look, Prabha, thank youso much for joining me today.
It's been so nice to see you andto hang out with you after our few
years, a sad few years of break.
But yeah, so thank you somuch for sharing so openly and
wholeheartedly with our listeners.
And yeah, everyone go to MediatorsBeyond Borders and sign up.
(46:37):
Like I said, give Prabha all your money.
So thanks again, Prabha and foreveryone else, until next time,
this is Laura May with the ConflictTipping podcast from Mediate.
com.
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