June 26, 2024 • 44 mins
Be prepared for our first on-air argument about spam thickness...Spoiler alert: We agree to disagree (but do we really?)
Louis DeWohl is a sham astrologer hired by the Brits to help stop Hilter. It's a weird one....but a fun one.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What's the deal with fucking Winston Churchill? What's the deal with Winston
Churchill? I don't know. Why does everyone want to be him?
I don't know. He's got the look. Just so many, though.
Music.
(00:27):
Here's me pretending like we didn't just
done this before well oh it's good for
me though because you know i just need repetition in my life
well no not that not that we
haven't we're not re-recording this but also that we
it's been a week since the last episode i was
gonna be like jess what'd you do last week wink still
(00:50):
okay i just gleaked all over the place you drink so much water well because
of those fucking spin dress i don't want it i know but that's so now i gotta
You gotta do like regular ass, boring, basic.
I know, but it's so good because that's the best shit.
Some high quality H2O. I mean. Your body's thinking you.
(01:14):
I mean, yeah, we'll see. You know how like, do you ever get swollen?
When you eat salt. When I eat dairy and salt, yeah.
I feel like my hands are acting as if I've had spam today. Oh,
I love spam. I had spam yesterday.
Oh. That's why. Okay, it's all making sense. I'm not dying.
(01:35):
You went straight to I have spam hands to I'm dead? Yes, typically. That's a problem.
I've had spam so long, I fucking love spam. Oh, my God. But it's so expensive
right now. We just Costco'd it.
How much is it at Costco? I don't fucking know. Too much. Is it too much? $23?
It's too much. The only reason that one should buy Spam is because it's cheap. Yeah, it's not.
(01:58):
And it's too expensive to buy. Rarely is it on sale, even. No. No, rarely is it on sale.
I saw some, where did I see some, that I was like, should I buy this?
I feel like mainstream's catching on, maybe. They know people are going to buy that shit.
They're like, these people want to make their musubis. Yeah.
And we're going to charge them. We had a soccer pop-up. $5 per can.
(02:21):
Literally. That's only six musubis if you are going to go with appropriate ratio.
Okay. Or, unpopular opinion.
I know. You're going to stab me from across the room. I don't think that the
spam needs to be that thick if the rice doesn't meet.
If the rice doesn't meet it that thick. If the rice. No. There needs to be a
(02:42):
proper ratio between the two.
Right. But if there's, like, no point if it's a thin little flimsy,
like. No, no bitch made spam.
Trouble. No bitch made spam.
No, no. But I'm thinking, like, I could go half inch of rice for a,
not a skinny spam. Nobody likes a skinny spam.
(03:05):
I do like them crunchy and a little burnt. But I like mine crunchy and burnt,
but I like, but for the mousse to be, it needs to be not crunchy and burnt. No. Yeah.
I like not equal, but close.
Yeah, exactly. Like, okay, the ratio for, like, the difference between half
an inch of rice, half inch.
(03:27):
That's an inch, by the way, what you're doing. So if you thought that was a
half inch, you were wrong. That is a whole inch.
An inch of rice with, like, I would say two-thirds of an inch of rice.
That's too much. I know, because the ratio is good.
You take a smaller bite, and then it's supposed to last you longer.
You're not supposed to just eat it in one sitting.
(03:48):
That's the thing. I feel like sometimes people be eating Spam Musubis that are just so disrespectful.
No, yeah. You don't eat it as a snack. No. It's a snack. Save it as shit.
But enjoy it. Some people be popping off on multiple Musubis in one sitting,
and that's too much Musubi.
I typically do pop off on multiple Musubis. That means that your rice to spam
(04:09):
ratio ain't it. Yeah, because you're not satiated.
That's probably. I can typically do two of them.
I like to not even get through one. What? I like to eat half and then save it for later.
Okay, no, no. Sometimes I make them and we take them to Disneyland.
Yeah, that's the right thing to do, okay? ABC store out of California.
(04:31):
It is like the best Disneyland snack. If anyone is wondering,
what is the best snack for Disneyland that's going to stay? Don't Google it.
Don't Google it. Just know now it's a Spam Musubi. Don't go any farther. We have the solution.
The only answer is. I don't know. There's got to be a place near there that,
like, makes it. But, I mean, if someone's traveling.
(04:55):
Okay. So, like, they can't make. Yeah. Okay. Privilege.
L&L. You know, yeah. There's got to be. Yeah. There's a place.
There's a Hawaiian spot. There's got to be a Musubi by there.
I think there is an L&L on Catella. But you're shaking the dice and rolling
them because not all, again, not all Musubis are made the same.
I don't know. There's a lot of Asians in Anaheim.
Oh, yeah. A lot of Pacific Islanders. Yeah. Enough people with the skills to make a good Musubi.
(05:23):
Right? I would say so. Yeah. I would say so. But I just like to, you know.
Again, rolling the dice. Yeah. I like to make my own. I also like to make my
own with the ratio that I like.
We did also buy a spam slicer. A spam slicer? Yeah, so that every...
(05:44):
No, but okay, but then you don't control your ratio. The slicer...
You know what you're controlling is the rice.
No, you want it to be... The rice is to meet... No. No.
The rice can meet it there. Like, I can adjust accordingly. I like to cut my
spam... This is going to be the hot topic of the year.
Yeah, okay. I like to cut the Spam in half and then into thirds from there.
(06:06):
So each one can gets me six.
And then I like to make it. Okay. Do you remember that one time?
You might be a serial killer. A what? Do you also pour your milk first?
I definitely don't. Okay. I don't even drink milk ever. Oh, yeah. Duh.
Do you like sock shoe, sock shoe? What?
No. Nobody cuts a Spam chunk, because that's the only way to describe it, in half first.
(06:33):
Not like directly in half. You take it out of the can.
No, I know. In half. And then, because then you know it's even because then
the two sides are going to be the same.
And then by the time you cut to your thirds, there are six equal slices.
Spam cutter. This is a spam. No, this is a spam can. I go, you don't go cut it.
(06:55):
I don't cut it this way, right?
Because I turn it on the side so it's easier. I cut it in half.
Uh-huh. And then you'd chop, chop, and then you'd go chop, chop.
I mean, there's probably, like, I get it. I mean, you've had my musubis.
Yeah, and they're bomb. I will never complain about your musubis. Never.
So who's the serial killer? I feel like you might. Who cuts it in the middle first?
(07:20):
You do. When you want to make six and you want it to be even,
because I don't want to get overzealous on my, like, thickness on one side and
be like, oh, no, I don't have any left on this side.
This one's gonna be really thin and this one's gonna be really thick yeah no
pulled a spam slicer but how many slices are there probably a lot and honestly it's,
(07:41):
I'm going to say probably eight, depending if you do it right,
because you got to line up the end properly or else you're going to have like that really skinny.
You don't want that. Yeah. I'm going to say eight.
And I think it's right. I think it's the right thing. They make musubi slicer
or spam slicers for the ratio.
I'm assuming. I think the ratio is wrong. Well, you know, there's something
(08:04):
to be said about having like literally just simplifying the process.
Different strokes. strokes different spam thicknesses for different folks i
am also speaking to a hawaiian.
Somebody who has hawaiian in their blood so
preference is preference i digress i digress i
digress who am i to tell you you know
(08:25):
what some lady told me said to me this weekend and i
thought about it way longer than i should have but she
was like i have this that like malam
the malama pono sticker on my yeah is it
the keep that i know keep that i know i know uh-huh
and she sees it and she's like where'd
(08:46):
you get your malama sticker and i was like i don't know like 808 dot something
dot com or whatever and then she was like man me white white white white girl
okay and she's like oh man i thought you would decide you got in the islands
and i was like no i didn't and she's like,
oh yeah, I just moved from there. I lived there for four years.
(09:06):
Do you even know what that means? It means... Oh my God. When somebody starts
it, do you even know what... Do you even?
She's like, it means the land is... I was like,
I like, did you engage? I went, I know.
And then overthought about how rude I said, I know.
You should have hit her with a little bit more of an I know.
(09:29):
And then she said, what's your lineage? You should have paused. Are you Portuguese?
I was like, what? What?
I was like, we'll go straight there, first of all. I was just like,
why are you guessing someone's ethnicity?
It was so random. Ma'am. I mean, obviously, Portuguese people are beautiful.
Beautiful i'll take the compliment all day yeah i'll take
(09:50):
it who goes straight there who is just like guessing on
people's ethnicity it's 2024 it's 2024
we don't need to be doing that shit and then i thought about it way too hard
i was like man i like gave that girl stank eyes so hard well deserved and she
was like she's like i lived there for like four years listen people don't know
when i'm like how is it what it even means i was like yes everybody fucking
(10:13):
know it's we're in In Southern California,
you were not like an anomaly.
I don't think that if you were in the Midwest and said, how is it?
People would be like, good. Good.
Fine. Yeah. Like, oh, you think like you've got street cred because you've lived
there for four years and you just say, how is it? Uh-huh. Because you've been to Zippy's.
You've been to Zippy's a couple times? Yeah.
(10:34):
It's a Denny's, okay? Yeah. I mean, it's pretty good. But I'm just saying it's fucking really good.
It is really good. I'm not going to lie. We go there every time.
We do go there every single time. One of the stops that we have to make is just
like an obligatory stop. Never regret.
Zero regrets. I like how we started to talk shit on Zippy's and then you're
like, you can't even talk shit on Zippy. Hold on, I can. It's too good.
(10:56):
It's so good. Okay. So.
Today, we are talking about Louis DeWall.
She's Jenna, by the way. I am Jenna. I am not Louis DeWall. I am Jess.
And yeah, that was a hard transition, but I realized that it was like not almost
9.30 and I was like, oh, fun.
(11:17):
Okay. So here we go, Louis DeWall. Thank you.
So I like to set the scene for this because this is the second time we've recorded it.
And the first time we recorded it, I didn't necessarily love it.
It worked out that the sound was trash, so we couldn't use it. I 100% agree.
But I've been like trying to think
(11:37):
about this a little bit more because I like to think of it as a very,
and I know you don't know Wes Anderson movies, but I like to think of it as
kind of like if Wes Anderson did kind of like an Indiana Jones type movie.
Movie because it has a lot to do with
nazi occultism and like because
(12:00):
you've seen please you've seen an indiana jones movie okay
okay harrison ford see that i can't
get you there okay yeah you might be there so nazi occultism
is like this whole kind of like weird thing
that happened that during world war ii there was so much
belief that the nazis were into the supernatural that they
(12:21):
started like hiring people
to like potentially fight against
their supernatural fucking crazy so that's that's kind of like where all those
indiana jones come from it's like this weird supernatural nazi occultism anyway
la lajos theodore gaspar adolf wool shit i know five times Time's fast.
(12:47):
I don't even know if that was correct the first time, but he was born January
23rd, 1903, in Berlin to a Hungarian father and Austrian mother who was of Jewish descent.
Oh, wow. His father died when he was young, which put him and his mother in
abject poverty, and this compelled Wohl to take a banking apprenticeship at the age of 17.
(13:10):
After a few years, he was fired. Does not say why. And I don't think he was
shady, but based on his career later as an astrologer and writer,
I don't think he, and like a filmmaker, he didn't really have the disposition to be a banker.
I think he was a little bit more freewheeling.
But also this is Germany in 1924, which is still in turmoil after the First World War.
(13:34):
Hitler has just unsuccessfully tried to overthrow the German government two
years prior and had just released the first volume of Mein Kampf, which is like his...
Like, shady-ass, weird-ass manifesto. Mm-hmm.
I don't remember much about this time. Like, when I learned it in school.
Yeah. I only know it through the lens of film history, which I'm sorry in advance.
(13:59):
Yeah. You will all get that now. Yeah. So after his stint at the bank,
he tried out a few more careers, including dress designing and film publicity work. Love.
But nothing quite stuck. And during this time, he was trying to make it as an
author but didn't find a ton of success.
Like he made – he wrote like a lot of novels.
(14:21):
And some of those were made into films. But he didn't like make a lot of money.
It wasn't like a really lucrative career. Okay.
So again, very beginning of Nazi rise to power and he's a poor artistic Jewish man.
So that's just like not shaping up well for him. No, no. No,
all of those things don't typically mean success. Yeah.
(14:44):
You don't have to be going for it. Late 20s in Germany as a Jew,
things are not looking good. Things are not great for you. No.
So he also worked as a screenwriter in silent films, which do still need a screenwriter.
Mm-hmm. Because they have like those little subtitle cards and they have to
know what they're doing and what they're saying, even though no one can hear them. Mm-hmm.
(15:08):
So that is a thing. That is a thing.
But it's not very, again, not very lucrative because back then it was all about
like the directors and their vision.
So like writers were like, might as well have been like overlooked.
A production assistant. Yeah.
But. That's so crazy, by the way. Their German films in the 20s, though, popped off.
So this was like the time to be in film in Germany. And some of the films are
(15:32):
still super referenced today, specifically Metropolis by Fritz Lang, which is...
I'm trying to even, I'm like, do I have, I used to have a bobblehead of this robot, Maria. Hold on.
Metropolis, I have to show you. I'm sure you've seen it. I know.
(15:55):
I'm going to, I'm going to Google it. You're Googling?
So the design of this like crazy robot, robot Maria, is the basis of the design
for C-3PO from Star Wars.
This is looking real fucking scary.
What? It's dope. I'm sure. Oh, my God. I love, I love the, she looks like Clara Bow.
(16:18):
Yes. So, what's that movie that just came out? Poor Things.
Have you ever seen the mashup? Yes. Have you ever seen the mashup between Metropolis and Poor Things? Oh.
Poor Things grabbed a lot of things from Metropolis. Okay.
So, it's the same vibe. Yes. David Bowie's Diamond Dogs tour ripped straight from the film.
There, I guess, was the Apple Plus series in the works. Until the writer's strike happened.
(16:40):
Mm-hmm. Whitney Houston's outfit in The Bodyguard.
When she sings, I am a queen of the night.
You know that song? Yep. I do know the song. And he pulls her off the stage
and he carries her like a princess and it's like the front of the cover.
I can't see. Anyways, that's her outfit. But I do know.
There's the cabinet of Dr. Caligari, which, have you seen The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent?
(17:05):
You should watch it. Would I like it? Yes. It's got Pedro Pascal and Nicolas
Cage. And Nicolas Cage is playing himself.
And yes, it's so good. The unbearable weight of massive talent.
And he keeps referencing Caligari, like Caligari. Just the title.
And yeah, so good. Honestly, so if anyone, you can watch this like movie,
(17:31):
like any, I think it's on probably YouTube.
But you can put like any like chill, like very like laid back beat to any of the movies.
And it's so dope to watch, especially a little bit stoned. oh
but even not stoned super fun
to watch yeah because it's just like kind of vibey you could put
like your own music over it and you could still like that's what i used to do
(17:52):
in college because i was so cool um nosferatu which is the first film adaptation
of dracula so like these are like the most famous films of this that time that
era period right and they're all coming from Germany.
Oh, also Nosferatu, the bad bunny just had, have you ever seen that? God, what is it?
(18:15):
Batacano, the music video for Batacano. No.
It's Bad Bunny, though? Yeah, Bad Bunny. And it's basically Nosferatu.
But Steve Buscemi is like the mad doctor. I don't know. So good.
Another thing you should watch. Uh-huh. Maybe not Nosferatu because that's not
like my favorite, but the Bad Bunny music video is very good. That is so funny.
(18:37):
Even though I don't speak Spanish. I don't know what he's saying.
No, I know, but you know what?
I don't listen. If your music makes my head do things.
Yeah, it's great. So 1935, back to Louis de Waal.
Back in 1935, he's like, fuck Germany, fuck Nazis, and he emigrates to England.
Changes his name to Louis de Waal because it's a lot easier than his like thousand names.
(19:01):
And he claimed that he fled because the Gestapo wanted him to do astrology work for them.
But Dr. Felix Jay, who's a friend of Wool's, said that he suspected that,
and this is in quotes, non-Aryan work for press and film industry had been eliminated.
Especially if he's a writer for silent films, that was probably like one of
(19:22):
the first things that stood out. Right, right, right.
And not really high on the totem pole. Yes. And like the beginning of the war,
no films come out of Germany other than propaganda.
Like they just like shut it down. and that friend
dr felix j was a great resource for how well
spent his time in his early years in england and he
(19:43):
wrote about his encounters with dual in a 1998 article for a magazine called
traditional astrologer which i don't know yeah i kind of love it so i read this
article and it reads kind of like a wes anderson screenplay and i know again
you don't know yeah other people but I bet you, listen,
I am among the few, I feel like. I feel like most, I know the name Wes Anderson.
(20:08):
I don't know anything else beyond that. I think most people do. Yeah.
It reads so quaint and like...
So overly descriptive in a way that like his films are.
And it kind of reads like the opening narration to the film,
The Grand Budapest Hotel.
(20:28):
And the way I imagine it, it's like Edward Norton is like narrating it.
And then DeWall is played by Bill Murray.
And then Jason Schwartzman is just like maybe there. And it's just like maybe
like a page boy or something. I don't know.
Anyway, that is my that is like my feel like where it's just like everything
(20:51):
about it is a little bit awkward and like a little just like,
I don't know. It's just a little bit weird.
It's like sweet, like a cute, like, I don't know. Anyway, don't move on.
Poor things. Poor things.
Poor things. No. Wait, I was relating. Poor things is weird and awkward.
Okay, in a completely different way. Sorry. I'm just trying to figure.
(21:13):
Okay, I'm trying to get there.
Okay. Oh, my God. Edit it out. Now I can't stop thinking of poor things,
but directed by Wes Anderson.
Oh, my God. Don't. That would be so weird. Help me, Lord. Where's Kendra?
Where's Kendra? Kendra! Help.
Anyway, so Dr. Felix Jay, may or may not be played by Edward Norton,
(21:39):
in my mind, wrote that DeWall lived in a hotel littered with books and papers in disarray.
And a lot of his everyday items had a coat of arms engraved on them.
And he was often dressed in a flowing robe or a silk dressing gown. He fancy.
He fancy. Jay says, quote, everything around him oozed Baroque or Rococo opulence.
(22:01):
Think Marie Antoinette. Yes. Yes.
This serving not only to impress the visitor, but most likely to generate in
his own mind an illusion of grandeur. Yeah, to make him feel himself.
He's like, yeah, it's like fake it till you make it. Yeah. He's like, I ain't.
I am these silk robes. You know that's right. I only belong in this dress and gown.
(22:22):
So DeWall apparently also loved to dress in drag, so much so that Dr.
J was once invited to play accordion in a charity concert by DeWall,
and then he danced along in drag and noted that he just looked so beautiful.
Ah, get it! I know. Love.
At the time of their meeting, DeWall was already writing books in English,
(22:44):
but he played cards for money which is how he supplemented his income and he
was like a poker the poker yes and he was already claiming to be an astrologer
however jay who was like an actual.
Astrologer kind of recognized like right off the bat that he was bullshitting
he was like he could sniff it out he was like he's like he's definitely a talker
(23:06):
and like he's read enough to like work
his way around it but he also has like no idea what
the fuck he's talking about so by 1940
which is only something that somebody who has
experience can identify yes so
by 1940 he'd been casting horoscopes for people of interest to the military
(23:26):
for 30 guineas per reading which translates in today's dollars to about 2400
which is a per reading per reading which is fucking nuts He's hustling.
Yeah, he's hustling. When I got my one reading, I did overpay her,
though, because – well, not overpay her, but it was the right thing to do because
she spent so much time with me.
(23:46):
It was $100. Yeah. Could you imagine paying $2,400? Stop that.
Absolutely not. So –.
He does all these readings, and
he catches the attention of the Special Operations Executive, or the SOE.
The SOE was the secret British organization set up by the one man that most
(24:08):
cult leaders claim to be reincarnated as, Winston Churchill.
Winston Churchill! I knew it!
Winston Churchill. The SOE was also known as Churchill's Secret Army,
and its purpose was to conduct espionage, sabotage, and reconnaissance in countries
that have been occupied in Europe during World War II.
(24:30):
The SOE is what you think of when you think of espionage and,
like, spies and, like, shit hidden in your shoe or, like, those cyanide pills,
like, as buttons and shit.
Because they were, like, all about making little gadgets, always about,
like, concealing things.
They were, like, super – like, James Bond. Switch army knives.
(24:52):
Yeah. Yeah, like, just, like – Like, yeah, like, knives in your shoes.
Uh-huh. Yeah. Like, things you don't even think that are, like, knives. knives
uh-huh yeah which i love yeah and
also they were a little unconventional for the time
women made up made up a lot of the higher ranks
and were like field agents and were
like put in a lot of unorthodox and risky situations strategy yeah yeah which
(25:17):
is get it when i appreciate yeah mi5 the british military intelligence service
hated de waal like hated him one officer described him as,
quote, an exceedingly vain man with all the Germans' love of uniform and rank.
Because he was like prancing around in a uniform and they were like,
(25:39):
bitch, you didn't earn that.
And you know, I mean, they obviously didn't say that. They were probably like.
He Bianche, you do not deserve such fine fine ropery.
Accused of being an imposter seeking notoriety and he was just generally not
(26:02):
trusted by the higher-ups mi5 but despite that the soe especially so2 which
was their sabotage sector made him a captain and gave him a uniform,
which, again, MI5 loathed because he would strut about town in it. That was a direct quote.
He would strut about town. That was my.
(26:25):
I wish I could see what we look like right now.
Strutting in place. Just strutting with his ropery. Dr.
Felix Jay said he met with DeWall in 1940, and he had greatly improved his station
in life, upgrading to a room at the Grosvenor House Hotel,
which is, I guess, a really famous place that I didn't know about,
(26:47):
and parading around in a full uniform with all the accessories and beautifully
tailored great coat and a leather-covered cane. He was...
Leather-covered. Leather-covered cane.
I mean he said quote lewis
was like a boy who had just received his christmas present he stood
(27:07):
up he sat down he stood up again he walked
around the room he looked in a large mirror in silent adoration he was just
feeling himself like he was like exactly what that feeling is but like he was
so proud of himself he's probably like dude i was like in a really And here
I am in these fancy duds. Enjoy this moment.
(27:31):
Yeah. Honestly, do you remember opening Christmas presents and strutting?
No, what? Like, you got clothes for Christmas that you loved? Like, as a little kid?
Okay, so my parents never bought things throughout the year much.
It was, you know, whatever.
They popped off on Christmas.
(27:53):
I remember one year, I got CK1. Mm-hmm. Husband got, or no.
Brother got CKB, and he was so mad because he wanted CK1. Uh-huh.
And, like, I had, like, all, like, the bell-bottom jeans. Like,
my mom, yeah, she popped off.
I thought, in my mind, I was thinking, like, five or six and getting clothes and being like, no.
(28:15):
No. And I was like, what kind of kid were you? No. You were like, yeah.
You get those Oshkosh baguettes. 11, 12. You got CK1 when you were, like, 11, my parents?
I'm telling you. That would be like me buying Faye CK1 for Christmas.
I know. That's crazy. I would literally write a list and my mom would just literally go off of it.
(28:38):
And she's always been that way.
That's why she pops off so crazy with the kids, the grandbabies. Yeah.
She's always been that way. Like she will literally get everything on the list. So crazy.
So I know what it's like to just feel like a million dollars and just shred
it and to feel good. Yeah. And be like, oh, look at all this.
Look at all these duds. Yeah. Look at all this new shit. All fresh. Yeah. Yeah.
(29:02):
Yeah. I know. It was a good time. Good time. Good time. It was a good time. It was a good time.
So Jay does note that for a Hungarian refugee from Berlin to a British army
captain is a huge jump in respectability and just higher treated.
And because he's like, you know, doing it up, he's probably treated a little extra well.
(29:24):
So Dr. Jay asked DeWall, like, how did this happen?
Did you have some sort of military experience no one knew about?
And de Waal was like oh it's because I know so much about Hitler's astrologers
and like all of their methods and the British really want wanted him to read
their minds and discover what advice they would give him and Dr.
(29:46):
J was like bullshit but okay you do you yeah yeah so but in so in In reality,
he was recruited by Sir Charles Hambo,
which is a really cool name, who was running the SOE and was starting a black
propaganda campaign to use against Germany.
(30:07):
Black propaganda is a form of propaganda that creates the impression that it
is created by those it's supposed to discredit.
Okay. So it's usually meant to embarrass or discredit a government through misrepresentation.
And so they wanted to use DeWall as an informant because he was already casting
horoscopes for people of interest in MI5.
(30:27):
And at the time, there was a rumor that Hitler was surrounded by fortune tellers
and astrologers, which was actually untrue.
Even though it persists, there was a new Indiana Jones movie,
which I think still was like, or maybe it was like Russians now instead of, I don't know.
Now, anyway, anyway, this is going to turn into an Indiana Jones podcast where
(30:51):
I just talk about the historical basis for every movie. All things.
Yeah. Anyway, so Hitler thought everything, all of it was bullshit.
De Waal was accused of starting rumors, like starting the rumors that he was
surrounded by fortune tellers.
But most likely he recognized that the
(31:13):
rumors of benefit to him and perpetuating it
right he probably was like oh i hear this rumor yeah
he just was like i'll get on that wave yeah ride that train no oh which one
wave i say wave okay anyway it's more appropriate but train does also it is
appropriate because world war ii yeah actually train we'll go train train i
(31:35):
don't know I don't know how big the waves are in England.
I don't know. I don't know if waves are waving. Yeah.
So supposedly, DeWall convinced the SOE that he could use horoscopes to influence
Hitler and his advisers. Yes.
Some supporters said, quote, an attack against Hitler at a time when he knows
(31:57):
that his aspects are bad will certainly find him prone to some amount of defeatism
to force his hand than would be to define an advantage for us.
So in May 20, that would be weird, 1941, DeWall was sent to the U.S.
To contribute to astrological magazines and newspapers, which at the time were
(32:17):
being used by astrologers favorable to Germany.
He published many articles, gave many lectures and interviews.
That summer, he spoke at the American Federation of Scientific Astrologers Convention
in Cleveland and said that Hitler was operating under the advice of the best
astrologers in Germany, and they were plotting to attack the U.S.
(32:38):
Sometime after the following spring when Saturn and Uranus had entered into Gemini.
He said America has always been subject to grave events when Uranus transits Gemini.
He then went on to say that the U.S. could defeat Germany if it ended the war before them.
(32:58):
This entire trip to the U.S. was to pressure Roosevelt into entering the war and to, like,
that information get to the Nazis
and the Nazis to then possibly start moving in a way to block the U.S.
That looks threatening enough for the U.S. to enter.
It's so crazy the way that propaganda was used.
(33:21):
Like, it's all mindfuck. It's like Inception. It's like, I'm going to get you
to think that I'm going to do this so that you think I'm doing this.
And honestly, once we're past I'm going to make you think this so that this
and then that, I'm lost. I'm like...
Not tracking much. Yes. And to be fair, the impression that the Brits had of
(33:42):
Americans at the time was that we were super gullible and we would just be like, yeah.
What the fuck is new? Let's go to war. Well, I mean, it didn't work, I guess.
Yeah. It didn't. But I'm just saying. I mean, we are a little gullible.
We are looking like a fool amongst the rest of the world.
(34:04):
You're not wrong. Yeah. So he returned in England, or returned in England.
He returned to England February of 1942.
Sefton Delmer, which is another really cool name. I love that name,
Sefton. I know. He was in charge of the Black Propaganda Campaign.
So he got him a fake document saying that DeWall was now a captain in the British Army.
(34:27):
DeWall, as usually, as like per usual, would wear the uniform and strut around
town. But Delmar wanted to – and Delmar was just like – everyone was like,
get rid of this guy. He's like useless. None of this is working.
And Delmar was like, no, I want to keep him happy because he's in contact with
Karl Ernst Kraft, who was a Swiss astrologer who was employed by Dr. Joseph Gables.
(34:52):
Gables was a propagandist working for Hitler who was trying to extract prophecies
from Nostradamus that were favorable to the Third Reich.
So remember that whole, like, Nostradamus thing? Like, in the 90s,
everyone got all up on it again? Yeah.
So back then, he was like, I think that we can use this to, like,
win, I don't know, the Second World War.
(35:15):
Nostradamus, for those who don't know, was a 16th century astrologer who was
known for predicting wild shit.
And his prophecies are super vague, meaning they're highly interpretive.
That's the thing.
Is that when something is highly interpretive, anybody can make it true.
Their own version of true. Yeah. And that's where I get all like.
(35:36):
Yeah. And then like, I feel like Nostradamus, whenever I think of that,
it's always like end of the world shit, right? It is. It's like impending doom.
I'm also thinking Nasty Nostradamus.
It's like a hip hop song. I forget. Nasty Nostradamus.
I don't know that song.
(36:02):
Please hold. Do you think that I would even know that song? No,
you're not hip and you don't hop.
You are hip. You just don't hop. I'll have to find it.
This is a side note. But Fritz Lang, the guy who directed Metropolis,
before the war started, he made a very defamatory film towards the Nazis.
(36:25):
He was like, fuck these Nazis.
I made a film that was like choosing. I'm choosing.
And so he makes it. So Joseph Gables, the black propaganda guy or the propaganda
guy was like, so we're not going to let you put this out there.
But we like you so much. Why don't you come work for us?
And supposedly Fritz Lang was like, yeah, OK. And then like fled in the middle of the night.
(36:50):
Fuck said I'm out of here. He like bounced out of there. I think.
Yeah. Yeah, I'm like, I think he went to France.
I don't know if that's necessarily true, but that's what legend says.
And that's the story he tells.
But yeah. So Croft was convinced that the prophecies were in Hitler's favor
and tens of thousands of pamphlets were circulated in different languages.
(37:13):
Like saying like, Nostradamus says Hitler's going to win, blah,
blah, blah. Trying to get everybody to bid for Hitler.
Yes. And be like, look, this is all on our side.
Croft came to the attention. This is the way it's supposed to be. Yes.
Like it's prophesied he's the chosen one terrifying
so croft came to the attention of hitler and gave
him even a private reading via one of his aides never actually met him but it's
(37:37):
his rise to prominence and proximity to hitler that made dewall so valuable
because they were like oh this guy's like pretty up there yeah so he's rubbing
elbows with the people that we We really need to. Yes.
So Duval helped Delmer forge copies of Kraft's pamphlets and change what was
(37:59):
said on the inside and help distribute them all over Europe.
So basically all those pamphlets where he was like, Nostradamus predicted Hitler is the chosen one.
They took all of those, made almost exact copies, but just changed the inside so it was like.
Not as great looking and that was
(38:19):
their that was their like black pop propaganda campaign that is so crazy delmar
continued to employ him throughout the end of the war during the war he became
increasingly religious in 1953 i know this is where things take a wild turn
because so far You're thinking,
here's this, like, very flamboyant, like, drag queen who loves to,
(38:45):
like, be. Unapologetically himself.
Yeah, who, like, likes to strut around in fine robes and is an astrologer.
So he becomes increasingly religious.
He does marry a woman in 1953 named Ruth Magdalene Lorch. Okay.
Who was a lady. I'm trying to name Magdalene as involved.
You know it's good. You know it's crazy. I love it so. She was a lady commander
(39:09):
of the Order of Sepulchre, which makes him a knight.
So he ends up becoming an actual fucking knight.
An actual knight. An actual fucking knight. Get it.
So then, in an even weirder turn, he goes back to writing, but only fictionalized
biographies of Roman Catholic saints.
(39:31):
Saints so he went from popping off
an astrology town to being like you know
what i wonder what saint john's life was like
oh god out in them fields i don't know what his deal was i don't know if there's
a saint john i'm assuming i don't know if there was a field or if there was
a field but neither did he and he was just about it though i mean i guess those
(39:55):
skills translated Just imagining lives for these people.
He's got an imagination that goes beyond.
And that's honestly what took him. He's living in imagination land.
That's what took him this far from being a broke-down banker.
He was a broke-down, busted, Jewish banker in Nazi Germany. Yeah.
(40:15):
And became a bull on night who was like, oh, I'm really religious and righteous now.
You know what? I bet you that gave him more like, I'm better than everyone else. Yes.
Because you know that he thrived on that shit. He loved it. He like breathed it.
Yeah. He's like, I, yeah, no, love it. So he died in Switzerland in 1961.
(40:36):
For many years, people doubted his role in the SOE. And a lot of people thought
it was just like a rumor or that he was just bullshitting.
But in 2008 his mi5 mi5
files were declassified and it showed that he had indeed been hired by the brits
as an astrologer to thwart hitler bam and that's it that was like kind of like
(40:59):
palate cleanser number two yeah i would say so because it's not like too much like there's no,
next we're gonna get to murder i'm joking we're not oh i was like red rum.
Everyone's probably like where's the murder right like what
is happening they're like we want that man are you
okay we want that sa we want the trigger
(41:22):
warning we don't want to hear about an astrologer who
thwarted hitler with his weird pamphlet about
nostradamus yeah and his robes yeah
his glorious beautiful i feel like we should call this
one why is everybody many Winston Churchill why is everyone Winston
Churchill why just why what's the
deal with fucking Winston Churchill I don't
(41:45):
know why does everyone want to be him I don't know he's got the look just so
many though like so many so many episodes we have referred to Winston Churchill
I know guy on the toilet Winston Churchill there's so many wait who else wait
didn't Oh, this guy, too.
What's his face? Goodney Goodnesson. Yeah, Goodnesson. Didn't he also have a
(42:09):
thing for Winston Churchill? I mean, at this point...
Everybody has had a thing for it. I mean, one way or another,
whether they say it out loud or not.
I mean, I think there will be a death next week if you guys really want to stick around.
But I feel like somebody needs to die.
What? Like, not like shitty.
I'm not like shitty. We've been being, like, so traumatized to,
(42:33):
like, to balance this out. Someone really needs to die. But I'm kind of ready
for a little bit of death.
I do have that. you guys needed you to see jenna's face the way the way her
eyes got big and she slowly did not even break eye contact with me i do have
(42:54):
that i do have it it's in my notes but i'm.
We'll see let's do it two palette cleansers that's really generous i know well
so originally this has been in my list my i've had i did these notes back when
When we started the podcast.
Stop. Yeah. But I couldn't figure out where to put it in. Like where it would
(43:15):
fit. But I think it's so fucking cool.
No, I think it is too. Because like, why would have someone been like, you know what?
Let's bring in this astrologer and see what we can do with him. And try to thwart.
As like, like as a military strategy. Uh-huh. Why would we do that?
Astrologer. Yeah. Why? And not even like a good one. Yeah.
(43:36):
Like mediocre, but like not even necessarily. He would be, he's like Ms.
Cleo level. He's the Miss Cleo astrologer. He's the Miss Cleo.
He's like, call me now. I don't know how he sounds. With his leather-covered cane and his rupes.
He's just strutting his stuff.
Being like, oh, I know all your drama. I'll tell you. I can tell you.
(43:57):
It's written in your stars with Uranus.
Thank you for honoring the right way to say that, by the way.
Uranus. It was really hard for you. You said it, and you made immediate eye
contact. I was like, oh, yeah.
Yep. Yep, yep. I remember from the last time. Someone's going to have to like,
there needs to be like a real astrologer who tells me how I need to say it.
(44:18):
I feel like, can't we just ask? We can ask Raquel. Raquel. Yeah.
Who I do love so much. I know. All right, guys.
Music.
What's the deal with fucking Winston Churchill? What's the deal with Winston
Churchill? I don't know. Why does everyone want to be him?
I don't know. He's got the look. Just so many, though.
Music.
(00:27):
Here's me pretending like we didn't just
done this before well oh it's good for
me though because you know i just need repetition in my life
well no not that not that we
haven't we're not re-recording this but also that we
it's been a week since the last episode i was
gonna be like jess what'd you do last week wink still
(00:50):
okay i just gleaked all over the place you drink so much water well because
of those fucking spin dress i don't want it i know but that's so now i gotta
You gotta do like regular ass, boring, basic.
I know, but it's so good because that's the best shit.
Some high quality H2O. I mean. Your body's thinking you.
(01:14):
I mean, yeah, we'll see. You know how like, do you ever get swollen?
When you eat salt. When I eat dairy and salt, yeah.
I feel like my hands are acting as if I've had spam today. Oh,
I love spam. I had spam yesterday.
Oh. That's why. Okay, it's all making sense. I'm not dying.
(01:35):
You went straight to I have spam hands to I'm dead? Yes, typically. That's a problem.
I've had spam so long, I fucking love spam. Oh, my God. But it's so expensive
right now. We just Costco'd it.
How much is it at Costco? I don't fucking know. Too much. Is it too much? $23?
It's too much. The only reason that one should buy Spam is because it's cheap. Yeah, it's not.
(01:58):
And it's too expensive to buy. Rarely is it on sale, even. No. No, rarely is it on sale.
I saw some, where did I see some, that I was like, should I buy this?
I feel like mainstream's catching on, maybe. They know people are going to buy that shit.
They're like, these people want to make their musubis. Yeah.
And we're going to charge them. We had a soccer pop-up. $5 per can.
(02:21):
Literally. That's only six musubis if you are going to go with appropriate ratio.
Okay. Or, unpopular opinion.
I know. You're going to stab me from across the room. I don't think that the
spam needs to be that thick if the rice doesn't meet.
If the rice doesn't meet it that thick. If the rice. No. There needs to be a
(02:42):
proper ratio between the two.
Right. But if there's, like, no point if it's a thin little flimsy,
like. No, no bitch made spam.
Trouble. No bitch made spam.
No, no. But I'm thinking, like, I could go half inch of rice for a,
not a skinny spam. Nobody likes a skinny spam.
(03:05):
I do like them crunchy and a little burnt. But I like mine crunchy and burnt,
but I like, but for the mousse to be, it needs to be not crunchy and burnt. No. Yeah.
I like not equal, but close.
Yeah, exactly. Like, okay, the ratio for, like, the difference between half
an inch of rice, half inch.
(03:27):
That's an inch, by the way, what you're doing. So if you thought that was a
half inch, you were wrong. That is a whole inch.
An inch of rice with, like, I would say two-thirds of an inch of rice.
That's too much. I know, because the ratio is good.
You take a smaller bite, and then it's supposed to last you longer.
You're not supposed to just eat it in one sitting.
(03:48):
That's the thing. I feel like sometimes people be eating Spam Musubis that are just so disrespectful.
No, yeah. You don't eat it as a snack. No. It's a snack. Save it as shit.
But enjoy it. Some people be popping off on multiple Musubis in one sitting,
and that's too much Musubi.
I typically do pop off on multiple Musubis. That means that your rice to spam
(04:09):
ratio ain't it. Yeah, because you're not satiated.
That's probably. I can typically do two of them.
I like to not even get through one. What? I like to eat half and then save it for later.
Okay, no, no. Sometimes I make them and we take them to Disneyland.
Yeah, that's the right thing to do, okay? ABC store out of California.
(04:31):
It is like the best Disneyland snack. If anyone is wondering,
what is the best snack for Disneyland that's going to stay? Don't Google it.
Don't Google it. Just know now it's a Spam Musubi. Don't go any farther. We have the solution.
The only answer is. I don't know. There's got to be a place near there that,
like, makes it. But, I mean, if someone's traveling.
(04:55):
Okay. So, like, they can't make. Yeah. Okay. Privilege.
L&L. You know, yeah. There's got to be. Yeah. There's a place.
There's a Hawaiian spot. There's got to be a Musubi by there.
I think there is an L&L on Catella. But you're shaking the dice and rolling
them because not all, again, not all Musubis are made the same.
I don't know. There's a lot of Asians in Anaheim.
Oh, yeah. A lot of Pacific Islanders. Yeah. Enough people with the skills to make a good Musubi.
(05:23):
Right? I would say so. Yeah. I would say so. But I just like to, you know.
Again, rolling the dice. Yeah. I like to make my own. I also like to make my
own with the ratio that I like.
We did also buy a spam slicer. A spam slicer? Yeah, so that every...
(05:44):
No, but okay, but then you don't control your ratio. The slicer...
You know what you're controlling is the rice.
No, you want it to be... The rice is to meet... No. No.
The rice can meet it there. Like, I can adjust accordingly. I like to cut my
spam... This is going to be the hot topic of the year.
Yeah, okay. I like to cut the Spam in half and then into thirds from there.
(06:06):
So each one can gets me six.
And then I like to make it. Okay. Do you remember that one time?
You might be a serial killer. A what? Do you also pour your milk first?
I definitely don't. Okay. I don't even drink milk ever. Oh, yeah. Duh.
Do you like sock shoe, sock shoe? What?
No. Nobody cuts a Spam chunk, because that's the only way to describe it, in half first.
(06:33):
Not like directly in half. You take it out of the can.
No, I know. In half. And then, because then you know it's even because then
the two sides are going to be the same.
And then by the time you cut to your thirds, there are six equal slices.
Spam cutter. This is a spam. No, this is a spam can. I go, you don't go cut it.
(06:55):
I don't cut it this way, right?
Because I turn it on the side so it's easier. I cut it in half.
Uh-huh. And then you'd chop, chop, and then you'd go chop, chop.
I mean, there's probably, like, I get it. I mean, you've had my musubis.
Yeah, and they're bomb. I will never complain about your musubis. Never.
So who's the serial killer? I feel like you might. Who cuts it in the middle first?
(07:20):
You do. When you want to make six and you want it to be even,
because I don't want to get overzealous on my, like, thickness on one side and
be like, oh, no, I don't have any left on this side.
This one's gonna be really thin and this one's gonna be really thick yeah no
pulled a spam slicer but how many slices are there probably a lot and honestly it's,
(07:41):
I'm going to say probably eight, depending if you do it right,
because you got to line up the end properly or else you're going to have like that really skinny.
You don't want that. Yeah. I'm going to say eight.
And I think it's right. I think it's the right thing. They make musubi slicer
or spam slicers for the ratio.
I'm assuming. I think the ratio is wrong. Well, you know, there's something
(08:04):
to be said about having like literally just simplifying the process.
Different strokes. strokes different spam thicknesses for different folks i
am also speaking to a hawaiian.
Somebody who has hawaiian in their blood so
preference is preference i digress i digress i
digress who am i to tell you you know
(08:25):
what some lady told me said to me this weekend and i
thought about it way longer than i should have but she
was like i have this that like malam
the malama pono sticker on my yeah is it
the keep that i know keep that i know i know uh-huh
and she sees it and she's like where'd
(08:46):
you get your malama sticker and i was like i don't know like 808 dot something
dot com or whatever and then she was like man me white white white white girl
okay and she's like oh man i thought you would decide you got in the islands
and i was like no i didn't and she's like,
oh yeah, I just moved from there. I lived there for four years.
(09:06):
Do you even know what that means? It means... Oh my God. When somebody starts
it, do you even know what... Do you even?
She's like, it means the land is... I was like,
I like, did you engage? I went, I know.
And then overthought about how rude I said, I know.
You should have hit her with a little bit more of an I know.
(09:29):
And then she said, what's your lineage? You should have paused. Are you Portuguese?
I was like, what? What?
I was like, we'll go straight there, first of all. I was just like,
why are you guessing someone's ethnicity?
It was so random. Ma'am. I mean, obviously, Portuguese people are beautiful.
Beautiful i'll take the compliment all day yeah i'll take
(09:50):
it who goes straight there who is just like guessing on
people's ethnicity it's 2024 it's 2024
we don't need to be doing that shit and then i thought about it way too hard
i was like man i like gave that girl stank eyes so hard well deserved and she
was like she's like i lived there for like four years listen people don't know
when i'm like how is it what it even means i was like yes everybody fucking
(10:13):
know it's we're in In Southern California,
you were not like an anomaly.
I don't think that if you were in the Midwest and said, how is it?
People would be like, good. Good.
Fine. Yeah. Like, oh, you think like you've got street cred because you've lived
there for four years and you just say, how is it? Uh-huh. Because you've been to Zippy's.
You've been to Zippy's a couple times? Yeah.
(10:34):
It's a Denny's, okay? Yeah. I mean, it's pretty good. But I'm just saying it's fucking really good.
It is really good. I'm not going to lie. We go there every time.
We do go there every single time. One of the stops that we have to make is just
like an obligatory stop. Never regret.
Zero regrets. I like how we started to talk shit on Zippy's and then you're
like, you can't even talk shit on Zippy. Hold on, I can. It's too good.
(10:56):
It's so good. Okay. So.
Today, we are talking about Louis DeWall.
She's Jenna, by the way. I am Jenna. I am not Louis DeWall. I am Jess.
And yeah, that was a hard transition, but I realized that it was like not almost
9.30 and I was like, oh, fun.
(11:17):
Okay. So here we go, Louis DeWall. Thank you.
So I like to set the scene for this because this is the second time we've recorded it.
And the first time we recorded it, I didn't necessarily love it.
It worked out that the sound was trash, so we couldn't use it. I 100% agree.
But I've been like trying to think
(11:37):
about this a little bit more because I like to think of it as a very,
and I know you don't know Wes Anderson movies, but I like to think of it as
kind of like if Wes Anderson did kind of like an Indiana Jones type movie.
Movie because it has a lot to do with
nazi occultism and like because
(12:00):
you've seen please you've seen an indiana jones movie okay
okay harrison ford see that i can't
get you there okay yeah you might be there so nazi occultism
is like this whole kind of like weird thing
that happened that during world war ii there was so much
belief that the nazis were into the supernatural that they
(12:21):
started like hiring people
to like potentially fight against
their supernatural fucking crazy so that's that's kind of like where all those
indiana jones come from it's like this weird supernatural nazi occultism anyway
la lajos theodore gaspar adolf wool shit i know five times Time's fast.
(12:47):
I don't even know if that was correct the first time, but he was born January
23rd, 1903, in Berlin to a Hungarian father and Austrian mother who was of Jewish descent.
Oh, wow. His father died when he was young, which put him and his mother in
abject poverty, and this compelled Wohl to take a banking apprenticeship at the age of 17.
(13:10):
After a few years, he was fired. Does not say why. And I don't think he was
shady, but based on his career later as an astrologer and writer,
I don't think he, and like a filmmaker, he didn't really have the disposition to be a banker.
I think he was a little bit more freewheeling.
But also this is Germany in 1924, which is still in turmoil after the First World War.
(13:34):
Hitler has just unsuccessfully tried to overthrow the German government two
years prior and had just released the first volume of Mein Kampf, which is like his...
Like, shady-ass, weird-ass manifesto. Mm-hmm.
I don't remember much about this time. Like, when I learned it in school.
Yeah. I only know it through the lens of film history, which I'm sorry in advance.
(13:59):
Yeah. You will all get that now. Yeah. So after his stint at the bank,
he tried out a few more careers, including dress designing and film publicity work. Love.
But nothing quite stuck. And during this time, he was trying to make it as an
author but didn't find a ton of success.
Like he made – he wrote like a lot of novels.
(14:21):
And some of those were made into films. But he didn't like make a lot of money.
It wasn't like a really lucrative career. Okay.
So again, very beginning of Nazi rise to power and he's a poor artistic Jewish man.
So that's just like not shaping up well for him. No, no. No,
all of those things don't typically mean success. Yeah.
(14:44):
You don't have to be going for it. Late 20s in Germany as a Jew,
things are not looking good. Things are not great for you. No.
So he also worked as a screenwriter in silent films, which do still need a screenwriter.
Mm-hmm. Because they have like those little subtitle cards and they have to
know what they're doing and what they're saying, even though no one can hear them. Mm-hmm.
(15:08):
So that is a thing. That is a thing.
But it's not very, again, not very lucrative because back then it was all about
like the directors and their vision.
So like writers were like, might as well have been like overlooked.
A production assistant. Yeah.
But. That's so crazy, by the way. Their German films in the 20s, though, popped off.
So this was like the time to be in film in Germany. And some of the films are
(15:32):
still super referenced today, specifically Metropolis by Fritz Lang, which is...
I'm trying to even, I'm like, do I have, I used to have a bobblehead of this robot, Maria. Hold on.
Metropolis, I have to show you. I'm sure you've seen it. I know.
(15:55):
I'm going to, I'm going to Google it. You're Googling?
So the design of this like crazy robot, robot Maria, is the basis of the design
for C-3PO from Star Wars.
This is looking real fucking scary.
What? It's dope. I'm sure. Oh, my God. I love, I love the, she looks like Clara Bow.
(16:18):
Yes. So, what's that movie that just came out? Poor Things.
Have you ever seen the mashup? Yes. Have you ever seen the mashup between Metropolis and Poor Things? Oh.
Poor Things grabbed a lot of things from Metropolis. Okay.
So, it's the same vibe. Yes. David Bowie's Diamond Dogs tour ripped straight from the film.
There, I guess, was the Apple Plus series in the works. Until the writer's strike happened.
(16:40):
Mm-hmm. Whitney Houston's outfit in The Bodyguard.
When she sings, I am a queen of the night.
You know that song? Yep. I do know the song. And he pulls her off the stage
and he carries her like a princess and it's like the front of the cover.
I can't see. Anyways, that's her outfit. But I do know.
There's the cabinet of Dr. Caligari, which, have you seen The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent?
(17:05):
You should watch it. Would I like it? Yes. It's got Pedro Pascal and Nicolas
Cage. And Nicolas Cage is playing himself.
And yes, it's so good. The unbearable weight of massive talent.
And he keeps referencing Caligari, like Caligari. Just the title.
And yeah, so good. Honestly, so if anyone, you can watch this like movie,
(17:31):
like any, I think it's on probably YouTube.
But you can put like any like chill, like very like laid back beat to any of the movies.
And it's so dope to watch, especially a little bit stoned. oh
but even not stoned super fun
to watch yeah because it's just like kind of vibey you could put
like your own music over it and you could still like that's what i used to do
(17:52):
in college because i was so cool um nosferatu which is the first film adaptation
of dracula so like these are like the most famous films of this that time that
era period right and they're all coming from Germany.
Oh, also Nosferatu, the bad bunny just had, have you ever seen that? God, what is it?
(18:15):
Batacano, the music video for Batacano. No.
It's Bad Bunny, though? Yeah, Bad Bunny. And it's basically Nosferatu.
But Steve Buscemi is like the mad doctor. I don't know. So good.
Another thing you should watch. Uh-huh. Maybe not Nosferatu because that's not
like my favorite, but the Bad Bunny music video is very good. That is so funny.
(18:37):
Even though I don't speak Spanish. I don't know what he's saying.
No, I know, but you know what?
I don't listen. If your music makes my head do things.
Yeah, it's great. So 1935, back to Louis de Waal.
Back in 1935, he's like, fuck Germany, fuck Nazis, and he emigrates to England.
Changes his name to Louis de Waal because it's a lot easier than his like thousand names.
(19:01):
And he claimed that he fled because the Gestapo wanted him to do astrology work for them.
But Dr. Felix Jay, who's a friend of Wool's, said that he suspected that,
and this is in quotes, non-Aryan work for press and film industry had been eliminated.
Especially if he's a writer for silent films, that was probably like one of
(19:22):
the first things that stood out. Right, right, right.
And not really high on the totem pole. Yes. And like the beginning of the war,
no films come out of Germany other than propaganda.
Like they just like shut it down. and that friend
dr felix j was a great resource for how well
spent his time in his early years in england and he
(19:43):
wrote about his encounters with dual in a 1998 article for a magazine called
traditional astrologer which i don't know yeah i kind of love it so i read this
article and it reads kind of like a wes anderson screenplay and i know again
you don't know yeah other people but I bet you, listen,
I am among the few, I feel like. I feel like most, I know the name Wes Anderson.
(20:08):
I don't know anything else beyond that. I think most people do. Yeah.
It reads so quaint and like...
So overly descriptive in a way that like his films are.
And it kind of reads like the opening narration to the film,
The Grand Budapest Hotel.
(20:28):
And the way I imagine it, it's like Edward Norton is like narrating it.
And then DeWall is played by Bill Murray.
And then Jason Schwartzman is just like maybe there. And it's just like maybe
like a page boy or something. I don't know.
Anyway, that is my that is like my feel like where it's just like everything
(20:51):
about it is a little bit awkward and like a little just like,
I don't know. It's just a little bit weird.
It's like sweet, like a cute, like, I don't know. Anyway, don't move on.
Poor things. Poor things.
Poor things. No. Wait, I was relating. Poor things is weird and awkward.
Okay, in a completely different way. Sorry. I'm just trying to figure.
(21:13):
Okay, I'm trying to get there.
Okay. Oh, my God. Edit it out. Now I can't stop thinking of poor things,
but directed by Wes Anderson.
Oh, my God. Don't. That would be so weird. Help me, Lord. Where's Kendra?
Where's Kendra? Kendra! Help.
Anyway, so Dr. Felix Jay, may or may not be played by Edward Norton,
(21:39):
in my mind, wrote that DeWall lived in a hotel littered with books and papers in disarray.
And a lot of his everyday items had a coat of arms engraved on them.
And he was often dressed in a flowing robe or a silk dressing gown. He fancy.
He fancy. Jay says, quote, everything around him oozed Baroque or Rococo opulence.
(22:01):
Think Marie Antoinette. Yes. Yes.
This serving not only to impress the visitor, but most likely to generate in
his own mind an illusion of grandeur. Yeah, to make him feel himself.
He's like, yeah, it's like fake it till you make it. Yeah. He's like, I ain't.
I am these silk robes. You know that's right. I only belong in this dress and gown.
(22:22):
So DeWall apparently also loved to dress in drag, so much so that Dr.
J was once invited to play accordion in a charity concert by DeWall,
and then he danced along in drag and noted that he just looked so beautiful.
Ah, get it! I know. Love.
At the time of their meeting, DeWall was already writing books in English,
(22:44):
but he played cards for money which is how he supplemented his income and he
was like a poker the poker yes and he was already claiming to be an astrologer
however jay who was like an actual.
Astrologer kind of recognized like right off the bat that he was bullshitting
he was like he could sniff it out he was like he's like he's definitely a talker
(23:06):
and like he's read enough to like work
his way around it but he also has like no idea what
the fuck he's talking about so by 1940
which is only something that somebody who has
experience can identify yes so
by 1940 he'd been casting horoscopes for people of interest to the military
(23:26):
for 30 guineas per reading which translates in today's dollars to about 2400
which is a per reading per reading which is fucking nuts He's hustling.
Yeah, he's hustling. When I got my one reading, I did overpay her,
though, because – well, not overpay her, but it was the right thing to do because
she spent so much time with me.
(23:46):
It was $100. Yeah. Could you imagine paying $2,400? Stop that.
Absolutely not. So –.
He does all these readings, and
he catches the attention of the Special Operations Executive, or the SOE.
The SOE was the secret British organization set up by the one man that most
(24:08):
cult leaders claim to be reincarnated as, Winston Churchill.
Winston Churchill! I knew it!
Winston Churchill. The SOE was also known as Churchill's Secret Army,
and its purpose was to conduct espionage, sabotage, and reconnaissance in countries
that have been occupied in Europe during World War II.
(24:30):
The SOE is what you think of when you think of espionage and,
like, spies and, like, shit hidden in your shoe or, like, those cyanide pills,
like, as buttons and shit.
Because they were, like, all about making little gadgets, always about,
like, concealing things.
They were, like, super – like, James Bond. Switch army knives.
(24:52):
Yeah. Yeah, like, just, like – Like, yeah, like, knives in your shoes.
Uh-huh. Yeah. Like, things you don't even think that are, like, knives. knives
uh-huh yeah which i love yeah and
also they were a little unconventional for the time
women made up made up a lot of the higher ranks
and were like field agents and were
like put in a lot of unorthodox and risky situations strategy yeah yeah which
(25:17):
is get it when i appreciate yeah mi5 the british military intelligence service
hated de waal like hated him one officer described him as,
quote, an exceedingly vain man with all the Germans' love of uniform and rank.
Because he was like prancing around in a uniform and they were like,
(25:39):
bitch, you didn't earn that.
And you know, I mean, they obviously didn't say that. They were probably like.
He Bianche, you do not deserve such fine fine ropery.
Accused of being an imposter seeking notoriety and he was just generally not
(26:02):
trusted by the higher-ups mi5 but despite that the soe especially so2 which
was their sabotage sector made him a captain and gave him a uniform,
which, again, MI5 loathed because he would strut about town in it. That was a direct quote.
He would strut about town. That was my.
(26:25):
I wish I could see what we look like right now.
Strutting in place. Just strutting with his ropery. Dr.
Felix Jay said he met with DeWall in 1940, and he had greatly improved his station
in life, upgrading to a room at the Grosvenor House Hotel,
which is, I guess, a really famous place that I didn't know about,
(26:47):
and parading around in a full uniform with all the accessories and beautifully
tailored great coat and a leather-covered cane. He was...
Leather-covered. Leather-covered cane.
I mean he said quote lewis
was like a boy who had just received his christmas present he stood
(27:07):
up he sat down he stood up again he walked
around the room he looked in a large mirror in silent adoration he was just
feeling himself like he was like exactly what that feeling is but like he was
so proud of himself he's probably like dude i was like in a really And here
I am in these fancy duds. Enjoy this moment.
(27:31):
Yeah. Honestly, do you remember opening Christmas presents and strutting?
No, what? Like, you got clothes for Christmas that you loved? Like, as a little kid?
Okay, so my parents never bought things throughout the year much.
It was, you know, whatever.
They popped off on Christmas.
(27:53):
I remember one year, I got CK1. Mm-hmm. Husband got, or no.
Brother got CKB, and he was so mad because he wanted CK1. Uh-huh.
And, like, I had, like, all, like, the bell-bottom jeans. Like,
my mom, yeah, she popped off.
I thought, in my mind, I was thinking, like, five or six and getting clothes and being like, no.
(28:15):
No. And I was like, what kind of kid were you? No. You were like, yeah.
You get those Oshkosh baguettes. 11, 12. You got CK1 when you were, like, 11, my parents?
I'm telling you. That would be like me buying Faye CK1 for Christmas.
I know. That's crazy. I would literally write a list and my mom would just literally go off of it.
(28:38):
And she's always been that way.
That's why she pops off so crazy with the kids, the grandbabies. Yeah.
She's always been that way. Like she will literally get everything on the list. So crazy.
So I know what it's like to just feel like a million dollars and just shred
it and to feel good. Yeah. And be like, oh, look at all this.
Look at all these duds. Yeah. Look at all this new shit. All fresh. Yeah. Yeah.
(29:02):
Yeah. I know. It was a good time. Good time. Good time. It was a good time. It was a good time.
So Jay does note that for a Hungarian refugee from Berlin to a British army
captain is a huge jump in respectability and just higher treated.
And because he's like, you know, doing it up, he's probably treated a little extra well.
(29:24):
So Dr. Jay asked DeWall, like, how did this happen?
Did you have some sort of military experience no one knew about?
And de Waal was like oh it's because I know so much about Hitler's astrologers
and like all of their methods and the British really want wanted him to read
their minds and discover what advice they would give him and Dr.
(29:46):
J was like bullshit but okay you do you yeah yeah so but in so in In reality,
he was recruited by Sir Charles Hambo,
which is a really cool name, who was running the SOE and was starting a black
propaganda campaign to use against Germany.
(30:07):
Black propaganda is a form of propaganda that creates the impression that it
is created by those it's supposed to discredit.
Okay. So it's usually meant to embarrass or discredit a government through misrepresentation.
And so they wanted to use DeWall as an informant because he was already casting
horoscopes for people of interest in MI5.
(30:27):
And at the time, there was a rumor that Hitler was surrounded by fortune tellers
and astrologers, which was actually untrue.
Even though it persists, there was a new Indiana Jones movie,
which I think still was like, or maybe it was like Russians now instead of, I don't know.
Now, anyway, anyway, this is going to turn into an Indiana Jones podcast where
(30:51):
I just talk about the historical basis for every movie. All things.
Yeah. Anyway, so Hitler thought everything, all of it was bullshit.
De Waal was accused of starting rumors, like starting the rumors that he was
surrounded by fortune tellers.
But most likely he recognized that the
(31:13):
rumors of benefit to him and perpetuating it
right he probably was like oh i hear this rumor yeah
he just was like i'll get on that wave yeah ride that train no oh which one
wave i say wave okay anyway it's more appropriate but train does also it is
appropriate because world war ii yeah actually train we'll go train train i
(31:35):
don't know I don't know how big the waves are in England.
I don't know. I don't know if waves are waving. Yeah.
So supposedly, DeWall convinced the SOE that he could use horoscopes to influence
Hitler and his advisers. Yes.
Some supporters said, quote, an attack against Hitler at a time when he knows
(31:57):
that his aspects are bad will certainly find him prone to some amount of defeatism
to force his hand than would be to define an advantage for us.
So in May 20, that would be weird, 1941, DeWall was sent to the U.S.
To contribute to astrological magazines and newspapers, which at the time were
(32:17):
being used by astrologers favorable to Germany.
He published many articles, gave many lectures and interviews.
That summer, he spoke at the American Federation of Scientific Astrologers Convention
in Cleveland and said that Hitler was operating under the advice of the best
astrologers in Germany, and they were plotting to attack the U.S.
(32:38):
Sometime after the following spring when Saturn and Uranus had entered into Gemini.
He said America has always been subject to grave events when Uranus transits Gemini.
He then went on to say that the U.S. could defeat Germany if it ended the war before them.
(32:58):
This entire trip to the U.S. was to pressure Roosevelt into entering the war and to, like,
that information get to the Nazis
and the Nazis to then possibly start moving in a way to block the U.S.
That looks threatening enough for the U.S. to enter.
It's so crazy the way that propaganda was used.
(33:21):
Like, it's all mindfuck. It's like Inception. It's like, I'm going to get you
to think that I'm going to do this so that you think I'm doing this.
And honestly, once we're past I'm going to make you think this so that this
and then that, I'm lost. I'm like...
Not tracking much. Yes. And to be fair, the impression that the Brits had of
(33:42):
Americans at the time was that we were super gullible and we would just be like, yeah.
What the fuck is new? Let's go to war. Well, I mean, it didn't work, I guess.
Yeah. It didn't. But I'm just saying. I mean, we are a little gullible.
We are looking like a fool amongst the rest of the world.
(34:04):
You're not wrong. Yeah. So he returned in England, or returned in England.
He returned to England February of 1942.
Sefton Delmer, which is another really cool name. I love that name,
Sefton. I know. He was in charge of the Black Propaganda Campaign.
So he got him a fake document saying that DeWall was now a captain in the British Army.
(34:27):
DeWall, as usually, as like per usual, would wear the uniform and strut around
town. But Delmar wanted to – and Delmar was just like – everyone was like,
get rid of this guy. He's like useless. None of this is working.
And Delmar was like, no, I want to keep him happy because he's in contact with
Karl Ernst Kraft, who was a Swiss astrologer who was employed by Dr. Joseph Gables.
(34:52):
Gables was a propagandist working for Hitler who was trying to extract prophecies
from Nostradamus that were favorable to the Third Reich.
So remember that whole, like, Nostradamus thing? Like, in the 90s,
everyone got all up on it again? Yeah.
So back then, he was like, I think that we can use this to, like,
win, I don't know, the Second World War.
(35:15):
Nostradamus, for those who don't know, was a 16th century astrologer who was
known for predicting wild shit.
And his prophecies are super vague, meaning they're highly interpretive.
That's the thing.
Is that when something is highly interpretive, anybody can make it true.
Their own version of true. Yeah. And that's where I get all like.
(35:36):
Yeah. And then like, I feel like Nostradamus, whenever I think of that,
it's always like end of the world shit, right? It is. It's like impending doom.
I'm also thinking Nasty Nostradamus.
It's like a hip hop song. I forget. Nasty Nostradamus.
I don't know that song.
(36:02):
Please hold. Do you think that I would even know that song? No,
you're not hip and you don't hop.
You are hip. You just don't hop. I'll have to find it.
This is a side note. But Fritz Lang, the guy who directed Metropolis,
before the war started, he made a very defamatory film towards the Nazis.
(36:25):
He was like, fuck these Nazis.
I made a film that was like choosing. I'm choosing.
And so he makes it. So Joseph Gables, the black propaganda guy or the propaganda
guy was like, so we're not going to let you put this out there.
But we like you so much. Why don't you come work for us?
And supposedly Fritz Lang was like, yeah, OK. And then like fled in the middle of the night.
(36:50):
Fuck said I'm out of here. He like bounced out of there. I think.
Yeah. Yeah, I'm like, I think he went to France.
I don't know if that's necessarily true, but that's what legend says.
And that's the story he tells.
But yeah. So Croft was convinced that the prophecies were in Hitler's favor
and tens of thousands of pamphlets were circulated in different languages.
(37:13):
Like saying like, Nostradamus says Hitler's going to win, blah,
blah, blah. Trying to get everybody to bid for Hitler.
Yes. And be like, look, this is all on our side.
Croft came to the attention. This is the way it's supposed to be. Yes.
Like it's prophesied he's the chosen one terrifying
so croft came to the attention of hitler and gave
him even a private reading via one of his aides never actually met him but it's
(37:37):
his rise to prominence and proximity to hitler that made dewall so valuable
because they were like oh this guy's like pretty up there yeah so he's rubbing
elbows with the people that we We really need to. Yes.
So Duval helped Delmer forge copies of Kraft's pamphlets and change what was
(37:59):
said on the inside and help distribute them all over Europe.
So basically all those pamphlets where he was like, Nostradamus predicted Hitler is the chosen one.
They took all of those, made almost exact copies, but just changed the inside so it was like.
Not as great looking and that was
(38:19):
their that was their like black pop propaganda campaign that is so crazy delmar
continued to employ him throughout the end of the war during the war he became
increasingly religious in 1953 i know this is where things take a wild turn
because so far You're thinking,
here's this, like, very flamboyant, like, drag queen who loves to,
(38:45):
like, be. Unapologetically himself.
Yeah, who, like, likes to strut around in fine robes and is an astrologer.
So he becomes increasingly religious.
He does marry a woman in 1953 named Ruth Magdalene Lorch. Okay.
Who was a lady. I'm trying to name Magdalene as involved.
You know it's good. You know it's crazy. I love it so. She was a lady commander
(39:09):
of the Order of Sepulchre, which makes him a knight.
So he ends up becoming an actual fucking knight.
An actual knight. An actual fucking knight. Get it.
So then, in an even weirder turn, he goes back to writing, but only fictionalized
biographies of Roman Catholic saints.
(39:31):
Saints so he went from popping off
an astrology town to being like you know
what i wonder what saint john's life was like
oh god out in them fields i don't know what his deal was i don't know if there's
a saint john i'm assuming i don't know if there was a field or if there was
a field but neither did he and he was just about it though i mean i guess those
(39:55):
skills translated Just imagining lives for these people.
He's got an imagination that goes beyond.
And that's honestly what took him. He's living in imagination land.
That's what took him this far from being a broke-down banker.
He was a broke-down, busted, Jewish banker in Nazi Germany. Yeah.
(40:15):
And became a bull on night who was like, oh, I'm really religious and righteous now.
You know what? I bet you that gave him more like, I'm better than everyone else. Yes.
Because you know that he thrived on that shit. He loved it. He like breathed it.
Yeah. He's like, I, yeah, no, love it. So he died in Switzerland in 1961.
(40:36):
For many years, people doubted his role in the SOE. And a lot of people thought
it was just like a rumor or that he was just bullshitting.
But in 2008 his mi5 mi5
files were declassified and it showed that he had indeed been hired by the brits
as an astrologer to thwart hitler bam and that's it that was like kind of like
(40:59):
palate cleanser number two yeah i would say so because it's not like too much like there's no,
next we're gonna get to murder i'm joking we're not oh i was like red rum.
Everyone's probably like where's the murder right like what
is happening they're like we want that man are you
okay we want that sa we want the trigger
(41:22):
warning we don't want to hear about an astrologer who
thwarted hitler with his weird pamphlet about
nostradamus yeah and his robes yeah
his glorious beautiful i feel like we should call this
one why is everybody many Winston Churchill why is everyone Winston
Churchill why just why what's the
deal with fucking Winston Churchill I don't
(41:45):
know why does everyone want to be him I don't know he's got the look just so
many though like so many so many episodes we have referred to Winston Churchill
I know guy on the toilet Winston Churchill there's so many wait who else wait
didn't Oh, this guy, too.
What's his face? Goodney Goodnesson. Yeah, Goodnesson. Didn't he also have a
(42:09):
thing for Winston Churchill? I mean, at this point...
Everybody has had a thing for it. I mean, one way or another,
whether they say it out loud or not.
I mean, I think there will be a death next week if you guys really want to stick around.
But I feel like somebody needs to die.
What? Like, not like shitty.
I'm not like shitty. We've been being, like, so traumatized to,
(42:33):
like, to balance this out. Someone really needs to die. But I'm kind of ready
for a little bit of death.
I do have that. you guys needed you to see jenna's face the way the way her
eyes got big and she slowly did not even break eye contact with me i do have
(42:54):
that i do have it it's in my notes but i'm.
We'll see let's do it two palette cleansers that's really generous i know well
so originally this has been in my list my i've had i did these notes back when
When we started the podcast.
Stop. Yeah. But I couldn't figure out where to put it in. Like where it would
(43:15):
fit. But I think it's so fucking cool.
No, I think it is too. Because like, why would have someone been like, you know what?
Let's bring in this astrologer and see what we can do with him. And try to thwart.
As like, like as a military strategy. Uh-huh. Why would we do that?
Astrologer. Yeah. Why? And not even like a good one. Yeah.
(43:36):
Like mediocre, but like not even necessarily. He would be, he's like Ms.
Cleo level. He's the Miss Cleo astrologer. He's the Miss Cleo.
He's like, call me now. I don't know how he sounds. With his leather-covered cane and his rupes.
He's just strutting his stuff.
Being like, oh, I know all your drama. I'll tell you. I can tell you.
(43:57):
It's written in your stars with Uranus.
Thank you for honoring the right way to say that, by the way.
Uranus. It was really hard for you. You said it, and you made immediate eye
contact. I was like, oh, yeah.
Yep. Yep, yep. I remember from the last time. Someone's going to have to like,
there needs to be like a real astrologer who tells me how I need to say it.
(44:18):
I feel like, can't we just ask? We can ask Raquel. Raquel. Yeah.
Who I do love so much. I know. All right, guys.
Music.
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