Episode 130 - Ratcatcher (1999) - The Culture Swally

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Culture Swally, a podcast dedicated to Scottish News and Pop

(00:21):
Culture.
My name is Nicky and I'm joined as always by the man who was one of the best jivers at
the Lindella.
It's Greg!
How are you today, buddy?
Yeah, not bad.
A little public holiday here today, which is nice, so.
Nice!
What you up to apart from spending a couple hours talking about rat catcher with me?
I think my oldest daughter and I are going to go and see 25 years later later on.

(00:45):
I think hearing lots of good things about it, so I think we're going to go and see it.
Is that prequel to 28 years later?
Oh, 28 years later, the LK.
Just a wee joke.
This is the webisode that tees up 28 years later.
Yeah, so I think we're going to go and see if there's a small window of opportunity when

(01:09):
the boy friend is not here, so I thought I would jump through it and spend about a
time with her since we'll get the chance very often these days.
Did you not invite the boy friend as well?
No, he's been here off-fuck.
He's been here off-fuckin' week.
So he has, so there's school holidays here, so just started.
So yeah, it's been three nights and I really was here.
Well, some nice father and daughter bonding time watching Zombie The Poc, so on.

(01:33):
Yeah, there are zombies, aren't they?
Ah, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I remember I watched 28 days later when it came out.
I remember enjoying it.
I do think I ever watched 28 weeks later.
And 20 years later, I think because I fucking watched the walking dead through to the
bit around, I'm kinda done.
Zombie, though.
Zombie, so yeah, I think I'll give this a miss.

(01:54):
I'll probably watch it when it comes on streaming or something of, you know, nine else to watch
one night, but yeah, I'm not rushing to go and see it.
But I'm sure it, yeah, I've heard it, it's very good and obviously you can't really go
wrong with Danny Boyle, can you?
Well, I mean, that's an amazing, I'd like to see it because that, and also it's getting
a lot of good press because normally I'd be like, you have it, I'll just wait and so it

(02:15):
comes on the TV, they can usually take, I have to really, really want to see something
at the cinema to go and see it at the cinema.
Recently so, but yeah, I just thought, you know, it's getting a lot of good press, or a mutual
friend was, uh, infusing about it the other day.
I actually watched 28 years later recently.
So I remember watching it when it came out and not really enjoying it all that much, but

(02:40):
I watched it again a couple of weeks ago, it says, son, the son Disney Plus.
It's actually not, all right.
You know what I mean?
It's got like, Jeremy Renner in Roseburn, an image in Puttsinit, then Bobby's obviously
a Bobby Carlyle, uh, Carlyle and, um, so name of the girl that plays, uh, Catherine McCormick
who plays, uh, what, what, what this is, ill-fated, bright and, but they've heard.

(03:04):
So yeah, it was just okay, so I'm quite enjoyed, can I go back to it?
Um, so yeah, we'll see what, we'll see what this, free poll has got to offer.
Very good.
I know what you mean about the cinema.
I was, I mean, I don't go that often as you know, like, usually once a year is going
to my tradition, but I was free last weekend, girl from the way and I thought, you know what,

(03:24):
I might go and watch the new Mission Impossible film before it comes out cinema, it's because,
you know, I do, I do love Mission Impossible films.
And then I went on to look at the times and stuff and of course, it's about for a few weeks,
yeah.
There was only like three showings a day and they were in like 10 o'clock in the morning
and two o'clock in the afternoon or something.
And it was like a heat wave last weekend.

(03:45):
So I thought, well, I'm gonna miss all the sun and then I'll leave.
And I was like, it's fucking two hours, 50 odd minutes.
Yeah, really?
Well, fuck that.
I am not sitting in a cinema for three hours.
I'll wait for that to come on streaming so I can get up and make a cup of tea and go for
a pee at my leisure.
Yeah, I went to see it a few weeks ago.
There's a few guys here who I'm, I want to say, I'm friends with, but kind of acquainted

(04:07):
with, and they have this sort of men's cinema club and I've been invited a few times.
And I've always made an excuse not to go because it's really my cup of tea, no harm to them,
but it's not my cup of tea anyway.
Because my wife is friends with the wife of one of these guys.
She kind of twisted my arm so I had to go and see it.

(04:29):
And it is long, it's, you know, it's mission impossible.
I think I preferred, I think I preferred the last one to this one if I'm being honest
like that, was it dead reckoning part one.
But I think I like that one more.
But you know, it's fine, it's too long.
I mean, it's too long.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's too long.

(04:49):
Yeah, it's, it's 40 long for a film.
Yeah, it's three hours.
Just, no.
Yeah, it's like, just puts me off.
Yeah.
But you know, you want a quick in and out.
So what I did was I instead, I watched the latest, almost so far, what was the latest final
destination.
Just like, and I were in 36 minutes long or something, bang bang, loads of dead kids out, magic.

(05:10):
Any use?
That's what you want.
Yeah, it was good.
Yeah, it was.
It was really good.
I really enjoyed it.
Look at that watch.
Yeah, but I love the final destination films, but yeah, this was, this one was good.
Yeah, I really enjoyed it.
I think I've only seen the first one.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
This is, this would be six, I think.
But yeah, oh no, one's good.

(05:31):
Two's bro, you must have seen two.
Two's the one with the, the logging truck.
Maybe.
I know.
I remember taking a girl to see Final Destination one on a date at the, it would have
still have been the Virgin Cinema at Queensland, Stanford Dean, something like 2000.
And enjoying it.
I thought it was really clever.
It would be a good concert and everything, but yeah, I don't know.

(05:52):
I've never really, I saw a bit of one that Scott Hayden, what's her name that was on
heroes, like Shari Shia.
Panity, yeah.
Panity Air.
And there's a car wash moment or something like that.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
But somebody gets drowned in a car wash or the Capitated in a car wash or something like

(06:14):
that.
Yeah, there is like an attempt to, yeah, she gets stuck in the car with a car wash.
Yeah.
Can't remember if she actually dies and that, but then she gets killed like the next second
or something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, they're very good.
I would highly recommend them.
Yeah, the third one's particularly good.
So, I roll our coaster with the lovely Mary Elizabeth Winsden.

(06:34):
Ah.
So, yeah.
They're like, all right, good.
Fair enough.
So do I.
Um, okay.
Right.
Enough about air.
And films and whatnot.
Shall we have a look at what's been happening in Scotland over the last couple of weeks?
Let's do it.
Cue the jingle.
Hello.
This is the Outdoor Heavard East Broadcasting Corporation.

(07:00):
And here is what's been going on in the news.
Okay, Greg.
What have you seen?
It's been happening in Scotland over the last couple of weeks.
You'd like to share with me and our lovely listeners.
So this one comes from Edinburgh Live.
It's about a week old now.
The headlight needs Edinburgh's most notorious landlord who barred pretty much everybody

(07:22):
from his pub.
Scots are known the world over for their hospitality, but the old maxim, the customer is always
right certainly didn't apply this famous Edinburgh Watering Hole.
With a brass plaque at his entrance for bidding mobile phones, backpackers, cameras and
credit cards, the cany-man's pub in Mordenside said exceptionally strict rules before you'd

(07:46):
even had the dubious pleasure of stepping inside.
And for those bold and undeterred enough to order a drink at the bar, your chances of
being served could diminish very quickly depending on your look or choice of attire.
The owner, Watson Care, was known for his extremely stringent policy of only allowing the right
kind of people to drink in his bar.

(08:08):
And this invariably meant that those who had dressed differently were spoken a certain
way were swiftly ejected.
While it sounds a rather baffling marketing strategy, Mr Care would go to great lengths
to maintain standards in the pub that had been in his family since the 19th century,
unable to prove that you're a local or a regular, not getting served.

(08:29):
Care to wear a suede jacket or letters or even jeans, no getting served.
And Mr Care's obituary in the Scotsman newspaper in September 2011, he was described as an
"extra ordinary Edinburgh publican whose unique approach to hospitality brought his cany-man's
pub, legendary status, and no statement could be true.

(08:51):
The late Care famously refused to serve whoever they deemed unworthy or not fit in the right
profile.
On Thursday, the cany-man's interior is crammed with an electric collection of brick-a-brack
curiosities in memorabilia.
Susan Gawnt recalls how, in the late 1970s, a mannicking hanging from the ceiling fell
on top of a drinker and knocked them out.

(09:14):
She says Watson Care's policies and clients' health had been quite relaxed at that time,
but soon changed.
She said it was a great pub then, for the shouldn't bikers, nurses and always heaving.
There was a brilliant drug box and about 101 clocks in the walls, none at the same time.
I remember one night a mannicking fell from the ceiling and knocked some guy out.

(09:34):
Three hours later he was back at the bar, of course he was.
It's sad when it became.
I could not believe you were refused entry for wearing leather.
In the 1960s, the cany-man became one of the first pubs in Edinburgh to have scantily
clad female dancers, known as "Go-Go" dancers, which for wow!
Which for many drinkers were procured considering Mr Care's otherwise stayed in authoritarian

(09:57):
policies.
Sandy Wilson, is there a more Scottish name than Sandy Wilson?
Sandy Wilson, they are definitely.
Sandy Wilson recalls, "The first time I ever went in, my friend and I were seated at the
bar, having a bowl of soup at lunchtime.
When suddenly the music was turned up full blast and a go-go dancer climbed onto the bar,
walked along it, stepping over the pints in her two bowls of soup.

(10:20):
I could never understand the place where half-naked dancers were acceptable, but swayed leather
jackets weren't.
And it wasn't just swayed or leather jackets that were barred at the canys.
Even the colour of your socks could be vetted as Ricky Grave calls.
He said, "I once went in with a crowd and he went in at two of his own because he didn't

(10:43):
like the colour of the socks they had on.
Total asshole!"
I've never been back to this day.
Donald Weeks said he'd been a regular at the Cani Man Journalist's Shun years and to
one day Mr Care, inexplicably refused him and the American girl he was with, with admission.

(11:03):
He said, "I'd been drinking in there as a student at Napier when I was 19 for about two years.
I took an American girl to try and impress her with her quaint Scottish friendliness, only
to be refused that admission.
No reason given, he just didn't like the look of me after serving me for two years."
Penn the head of Christmas 2003, Mr Care's "festive season" roles are a sight to behold.

(11:28):
Blunt their punters are bluntly told they won't, just like in previous years, be any festive
decorations.
Anyone caught with so much as a pixie hat or tinsel on their person will be shown the door.
Mr Care writes that customers certainly won't be getting free nips.
But can look forward to a special Christmas surcharge added to all alcoholic drinks.

(11:52):
As for food, lunch will be served cold, as normal, absolutely no Christmas fare at the Cani
Man's.
While the pub is still owned by the Care family, following Watson Care's passing, and
the pub's notorious, they strict policies of yesterday have relaxed somewhat, the brass
plaque with the rules of the entry and still remains.

(12:14):
So most consider a pint at the infamous Morningside Road establishment, perhaps consider
switching your mobile phone to flight mode.
So I mean, I can't really think of any pubs and Aberdeen that we went to that had landlords
who were characters, but I've certainly worked on a couple of pubs where the landlords
mean that they're characters.
Yeah, we never really went to anything like that.

(12:36):
I mean the one that obviously stands out is Chris Fippipi's Aberdeen, but I was never
worried that I'd be a regular at Pete Pits.
Yeah, to go into some of those pubs that they had at that time.
Yeah, definitely.
The way we were dressed and stuff, yeah, definitely not.
Yeah, I can't think of anyone that springs to mind by landlords.

(12:57):
I mean, yeah, most of it was just managers that we went into, didn't really get to know
the landlords as such.
I think it was like, I mean, that was all the pubs that you went to, there'd be no one's
by big companies like Puncher, Scottish and Newcastle or whoever, whether spoons and stuff.
So, that, I don't think we never went to fucking weather spoons.

(13:20):
I mean, I definitely had a pint in the Archie-Bold Simpsons now and again, because it was
-mitting us true.
Maybe not like a whole night in there.
It was sort of, you really go and have a couple of reasonably priced jars before heading
off somewhere a bit more hip, you know?
I do remember, yeah, I was in the Justice Mila couple of times, I suppose, but...
Justice, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

(13:41):
And the...
I mean, I've been in the schooner in the morning.
Oh, yeah.
After a heavy night of just being on the piss like all night and then a quick breakfast
in BHS, massive job being in the toilets and then down to the schooner to get back on it.
The scariest times that I was in the schooner was if I was going on a way game, like if you're

(14:04):
going to Ibrox or Parkhead, then the bus would pick you up at the hotel that was on Market
Street where they used to have Star Trek conventions.
The station, the Wartel Hotel, right?
I think I can't remember.
I know, the station hotel wasn't at the market street, it was on Gilles Street, the station.
I know it was the famous fucking Scottish Italian hotelier, Stakas.

(14:29):
The Stakas Hotel on Market Street.
Yeah, I think it might have been, yeah, it was.
Stakas.
So, yeah, the bus used to pick us up outside there.
So, I think about ATM, so you would get there early and then go for a quick pint in the
schooner.
And yeah, it was very different when you were first thing in the morning and completely sober
as opposed to going in there after a heavy night out in a house party.

(14:50):
So it was very interesting.
Yeah.
I mean, this land already just sounds like a character.
He just likes the, it's his pub.
You can do it with the fucking ones.
Yeah.
Run it how we want and people don't agree to it then.
It's so beautiful.
I think it would be, it would be a sort of challenge to get in and get served.
You would be like, oh my god, put on that.
I'm going to appreciate myself for this guy if it's the last thing I do.

(15:14):
I'm going to wear a leather waistcoat and chaff.
That's not going to appreciate yourself with it, is it?
You have to go out and make an appear in a fucking flannel trousers and I'm, you know,
butted down short, beige jacket.
I was going to say, this morning, my wife asked me to go with her to meet a couple
for a coffee that she's friends with a wife, the American couple, they're staying at the

(15:36):
W hotel here near the Marina in Dubai.
And neither horror either are being in that hotel.
It's very, to get fancy hotel, right?
Pretty fancy.
So we had a coffee in the bar and we're having a chat.
We're the only ones in there and then this guy comes in, like, sort of, a youngish guy.
He's got, you know, he's, obviously, on his holidays, he's got a little backpack.

(15:56):
And it's, we were in there at like 9.30 and he ordered a bottle of peroni.
And a chaser, probably vodka or something, like a clear liquid.
And I was looking over at him and I was thinking, "Fuck him lucky bastard."
You're my hero.
I'm sitting here drinking a fucking black coffee and trying to make conversation with people

(16:18):
that are meeting for the first time and this guy is just fucking living his life there,
having a beer and a chaser at 9.30 in the morning and this, to get his day started.
I remember I was playing golf at Jebel Ali and I was in the, I must have had like a 10 o'clock
tea time or something and I was in and signing in and I was in the shop looking at stuff

(16:39):
and I could just hear this voice, somebody fucking moaning and swearing that it was 9.30
am and they couldn't get a pint because the bar didn't open to the 10 am, like, raging.
I turned around and it was Ron Atkinson.
It was not happy that you couldn't get a pint at that time and the guys are trying to say
it's fine, like, after hole three you'll get a pint on the course, you can get a beer,

(17:03):
they are a cans of eye-nicking and stuff but no, he wanted a pint now, so it was not happy.
Come see, come see, come see, come see my specific generation of British sportsmen, doesn't
they like it?
He certainly does, he certainly does.
Have you ever been banned from a pub or...
No, no, I've checked.
You know, generally quite well behaved, never needed to be the centre of attention.

(17:29):
I mean, I was, I was telling my wife this morning, I was on a panel this week and industry
panel and I was really uncomfortable because I'm sitting on this stage with like four other
guys and would be asked questions but everybody's looking and I know I wasn't like the centre
of that attention but I was still part of it and I just may be uncomfortable, very self-conscious.

(17:50):
So yeah, I've never been, I think you need to be somebody who can be quite, either somebody
who can be quite violent or somebody who is quite, hey, look at me, you know, I don't
think I've ever really been somebody like that.
What category do I fall into?
Because I've been banned from an establishment.
I was banned from Charlottes.

(18:11):
Where did it?
Did we not get banned from SB&AGE, both of us?
No, we didn't.
We just got chucked at it.
I technically, I got banned because, well, we got thrown out, I got thrown out, you got
company meeting and I was working in rev at the time and one of the barmen was also a

(18:32):
bouncer at SB&AGE, right?
And I said to him the next day, I was like, "Ed, I got thrown out of SB&AGE last night."
What were you doing?
And I told him and he was like, "Okay, do you know who's through you?"
And I described the guy and he went, "I'll find out."
So a couple days later, I saw him and he goes, "Yeah, you're banned."
I was like, "Fuck sake."
And then a couple days later, he said to me, "The bouncer through you out has left."

(18:58):
So he's like, "You can come back if you want."
I was like, "Great."
Yeah, I was banned from Charlottes.
I can't remember why.
No, I remember why, but to start the story, I was in there one night.
I think it was with Palava and a couple others and we got asked to leave.
I think we were being a bit rowdy.

(19:19):
And I called the guy, turned out it was the manager.
I called him, I jumped up a little prick.
And we left, yeah.
Fast forward about six months later and was on a daytona night out and we were in Charlottes.
I met everyone in Charlottes and there was about 20 of us.
And I was just sitting at an applying and Dove came over because he used to work in Charlottes.

(19:43):
Right.
And he said, "Nikki, I'm really sorry, but you've been asked to leave."
And I was like, "Hi, funny."
And I just know the manager.
So I went over and I was like, "Hi."
And he goes, "Yeah, you called me a jumped up little prick."
So I'm asking you to leave.
So I was like, "I'm really sorry."
I was drunk that night and you know, something like, "I'm really sorry."

(20:03):
No, it doesn't matter.
You're bored.
I'm throwing you out.
I was okay.
I was like, "I'm back."
And on mass.
That's when I was like, "Oh, I'm well liked."
On mass, everyone just stood up.
And as we were walking past, I said to you, but I was leaving that drunk at that time.
I was like, "I'm really sorry."
You know, again, but you know something.
I was right.
You are a jumped up little prick.

(20:25):
And walked out, never went to Charlie's again.
So yeah.
So was I violent or was I showing off?
I don't know.
I was showing off, I'd say.
Yeah, well, I don't know movie.
Well, world different back then.
I mean, I might have been a wee bit cheeky just like in a band today, we...
But if I got the feeling that I was sailing close to either a punch in the mouth or being

(20:50):
banned and dragged out, I'd probably have stepped back from the edge and being like, "Oh,
I'm really sorry.
I was just, "Oh, I don't even know if I found anybody."
Well, there was a bar between us, so it was fine.
I got away with calling him that and running away.
And being banned from Charlie's.
It's not the worst place, you know, at that time had I been like banned from the hell is it

(21:11):
still or something?
And that would have been heartbreaking.
But it was fucking Charlie, so I didn't get a fuck.
It was the wrong end of time.
I just had that time.
They were just lucky the bounce had been through you down the stairs because they had formed
for that, don't they?
Oh, yeah, they did, you're right.
Yeah, they certainly did.
I think I picked my nights well.
It was like week nights, there was no bindsters on.
Yeah, they had bindsters.
I suppose so.

(21:31):
Not at that time.
I think there was no bindsters, you remember it like week nights at pubs.
Because Charlie's was a pub.
Yeah, it was just never a bouncer's.
It was only weekends.
True.
Because even revolution, we only had bouncer's on a Friday and Saturday night and they only
started it like 7pm.
I think the only place I went to regularly during the week that it bounces would probably
have been like pooed in aah probably, you know, that was a club, you know?

(21:54):
Yeah, all clubs had bouncer's, yeah, but pubs, no, they didn't.
Anyway, that sold Watson Care and his stringent door policy for the Kani man, which
your first story this week?
My first story is from the Scottish Sun this week Greg and the headline is The Cup a Kahn
Man.
A tea scammer dubbed Tetley Tam was jailed for three and a half years as he apologized in

(22:19):
court for bringing shame on the Kappa industry.
Fraudster Thomas Robinson 55 tricked luxury hotels and stores into buying Scottish grown tea
that was actually from abroad.
Like I can't believe he's been jailed for three and a half years for this.
I believe that there could be people believed that it was tea grown in Scotland.
Yeah, that's the other thing that pubies is me too.

(22:40):
The Kahn Man who appeared on BBC Podcasts about his bogus venture fleeced customers for
more than half a million pounds as part of his tea leaf scam.
He said he is racked with guilt over his five year scam of buying cheap foreign tea and
selling it at premium as Scottish.
Robinson 55 who asked clients to call him Mr. T.

(23:01):
Told us.
Come on.
Told us in security, but he is plagued with remorse about the reputational damage he calls
to genuine tea growers in Scotland.
He said, I've had to time to wrestle with less sober, sleepless nights.
Comment and realize how wrong and stupid I've been.

(23:22):
The stigma of misleading others.
I should have been much more transparent and owned up to the situation.
Robinson told customers his couple of leaves have been grown on his perthshire estate, but
he was actually importing them at a fraction of the cost that he charged.
Speaking at Starling Shire of Court, via a video link from HMP Lomas, where he was remanded
last month, Robinson pleaded to be spared a jail term.

(23:45):
He said, I'll go to church.
I'm perfectly aware that it's a sin.
It's not only to do something, but also not to do the right thing.
The shame of that hangs over me every morning.
Every time I wake up in my cell.
I saw only hope my actions have not detracted from the success which can be achieved for
people who want to grow tea in Scotland.

(24:07):
I could only offer my sincere apologies if my actions have besmurged that capability.
So Robinson's victims between 2014 and 2019 included Edinburgh's Balmorrow Hotel, the
Dorchester in London, and Top End Store fortenham in Mason.
Jesus.
That's why he's got a jail term.

(24:29):
Trading as the Wee Tea Plantation, the crook also flowed £22,000 from Italy to Scots Home
Cruurs for £12.50 each.
His scam echoes that of Del Boy and only fills the horses who fill bottles with tap water and
sold them as a premium product called Beckham Sprint.

(24:50):
Robinson, also known as Tamobran, was rumbled by food standard Scotland investigators and
Perth and Kinross Council checked if he had a food processing license.
Lead investigators, Stuart Wilson, said he created such a story that people were taken along.
Once we started digging into it, it was quite clear that not only could the quantity of tea

(25:10):
not be grown, but the plant's he sold couldn't have been grown either in the quantities
he claimed.
Balmorrow General Manager Andrew McPherson said, "To have been deceived in such a calculated
better, left us all profoundly disappointed and embarrassed."
A phantasy's Robinson, who said he got the Scottish government support for his scheme,
even claimed one of the brands was the Queen's favour.

(25:33):
Jailing him for three and a half years, Sheriff Keith O'Malley, said, "By any measure,
these convictions must be regarded as significant.
People were convinced on false pretenses to hand over significant sums of money."
Rob Notton of the Scottish Food Crime and Instance Unit said, "The custodial sentence reflects
the scale and impact of Mr. Robinson's deception."

(25:53):
So he was buying tea from it, and passing it off his Scottish and selling it to punters
and saying it was a Scottish tea.
Crazy, absolutely crazy, but hey, this scam lasted, and it's one of those things, I guess,
you're thinking if it's worked once, then it's going to work all time.
And if you've got the dorkchester, the ballmorrow hotel, and for them is mason as your

(26:15):
customers, you're going to go along with it, you're thinking, "Fuck, who do I think them?"
But exactly, the first thing you said was, growing tea in Scotland.
Yeah, it's like Scottish wine.
Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I don't think it has to go to jail.
You know, maybe some sort of compensatory sentence, where he's got to pay back the money

(26:39):
that he'd call in out of these hotels over time, but selling them at jail is a bit strong.
You know what, I mean, certainly when he'd be the first religious hypocrite.
I agree with you to a certain extent.
He has scanned half a million, you know, it's fraud.
Yeah.
Please commit it, and fraud basically does come with a jail sentence.

(27:01):
However, three and a half years is a bit extreme.
Like, I would have thought maybe six months, because, studio, you have to pay back the half a
million and community service or something, but three and a half years is a long time, you
know?
I think, "Fuck, do you imagine?"
I know.
Fucking on the beast wing or something, and you're like, "What are you in for?"
"So tea that said was Scottish."

(27:24):
I mean, I tend to think that, I know that people might think, "Well, is she go to jail to
teach you my lesson?"
I tend to think jail was for keeping dangerous people off the street, you know, not for, you know,
you can take, I'm sure these liem, these lessen anyway, having gone to court, it's been humiliated.
He's having to pay the money back, you know, they, I would really keep in the streets safe

(27:48):
by sending this, that after the prison, whatever things are.
I'm with you on that instance, because I do agree that he's not a danger and you're right,
he's learning his lesson, and punishment, I'm not sure the in terms of his face and names
all over the newspapers, his businesses and ruins now.
You know, what's he going to do now?
He's 55, he's, can't really be called Mr. T.

(28:10):
He's supposed to be, he's good at hands.
Like, he'll always be now known as Tetley Tam as the newspapers have dubbed him.
So he's kind of, you know, he's screwed anyway, so is that not punishment enough?
Or maybe, you never know, maybe he might spring up with a Scottish coffee business next
few months.

(28:30):
Yeah, you have to pet you the fool, you know, don't you?
I guess nobody's going to trust him in prison, I'd like to buy drugs off, am I?
Yes, they'll wonder when it's come from.
Or, or tea for them.
Of course.
Scotland's finest coke for you, and see how you got home with that.
Yeah.
Oh well.
Anyway, we'll see what happens with Tetley Tam if there's any further updates, but probably

(28:55):
not for the next three and a half years.
What else have you seen this week, Greg?
So occasionally we have a wee sort of misdeedious story on the swallow, sometimes Loch Ness monster,
sometimes UFOs.
This one's, hmm, this is maybe a new, I can't, a different one though.
So this comes from the daily record on the 25th of June, and the headline reads, "Scott's

(29:18):
mum convinced toddler son had passed life in the 1800s after an eerie encounter.
The amygdalaucl and son made a chilling claim at nursery."
So an attention starved mum from Irvin has shared the eerie moment her three year olds
could go.
But, is that what it actually says?

(29:39):
No, I might have added that a little bit, but it'd be a little bit interesting.
Oh, for fuck's sake.
Has shared the eerie moment her three year old son convinced her he'd had a past life
in the 1800s.
The amygdalaucl was taken aback when she went to collect her child from nursery and was
pulled aside by his key worker for a private word.
Taking the tiktok, she recounted how the nursery staff member quisster about a John Wilson,

(30:03):
and named her son had repeated they mentioned that day.
I was confused, and she, the key worker told me he was playing outside with flags, and
he started speaking about John Wilson.
I looked at her puzzled and I said, "I don't know anybody of that name."
Yet the tale was about to take an even stranger turn.
The key worker then informed the am that her son, Craym John Wilson, was himself, the

(30:26):
flagman in America on a mountain, and also his friend, myself and his key worker, were
completely stumped.
She fetched the iPad and suggested we Google it to see if anything came up.
My son was only three, and he hadn't been good using iPads.
Let alone write, let alone be able to read properly.

(30:47):
The anodmitter, they were utterly unprepared for what they found next.
The buzz were in this belief at what we saw, and it left us feeling flabbergasted, she
said.
She then shared an old black and white photo, adding, "This is Captain John Wilson of Company
CE8 Kentucky Infantry Regiment Union."

(31:09):
In another photo, Wilson was seen with fellow soldiers which led the anter reveal.
He was the first union soldier to plant his regiment's battle flag on the summit of
Lookout Mountain, during the Battle of Lookout Mountain, during the American Civil War on
a 24th of November 1863.
Be well-dored for over a decade, the am from North Airshire confessed her son's insights

(31:33):
still leave her puzzled.
No three-year-old could have that information, was mass-on actually there?
There's no explanation, I can think of why he would say new him and he was his friend.
She concluded her tale with an enigmatic detail that only fuels the theory of reincarnation
further.
He sent me her strange as John Wilson, the four-mile-sweet Irvin in Kentucky.

(31:53):
And we live in Irvin in Scotland.
And a bit, an obituary from Irvin at the time called Death of a Hero reported that Wilson
died at 74 due to cancer, and his station camp Kentucky home.
Others in Tik Tok reacted to the story by recounting their related experiences.

(32:14):
One person recalled, "I lost my 25 year old brother when I was eight months pregnant with
my first daughter.
When she was just three, she pointed at an old-school photo of my late brother and said,
'That's me when I was your brother.'
She wouldn't have even known who he was in the photo.
She used to say similar things that he did, and she has one dimple, just like him.
Another shared, 'My son, when he was four, said his name was Peter.

(32:37):
It's not.'
And he died in a hot air balloon when he was 57.
Amazed, a third individual declared, 'This is amazing, it makes me wonder.
My three year old keeps telling me about in 1965, he had a brown dog called Jack, and he
talks about him all the time and said he miss him.'
Whilst a fourth recounted their experience, 'My son talked about his life in France,

(32:58):
would have never been nor has anyone we know.'
He said his dad died in a drowning accident near their house, named a place, and a nearby castle
too.
So, here we go then.
The Advocate Irvin thinks that our son is the reincarnation of an American civil war soldier
from Irvin Kentucky.
Now, you've got two kids, Greg.

(33:18):
I'm not saying this, just your kids, I'm saying it, for kids in general, kids talk a lot,
but it certainly do.
Do talk a lot of shite.
So, yeah, I remember saying to my mum something about being on the moon with the Ghostbusters,
and yeah, just come up, it's surely it's a, and you can tell probably by the fact that we're

(33:43):
laughing about this, that we don't leave it at all.
Yeah, there must be some explanation, I'm sure he's seen it somewhere or read something
or has just come up with a, it's just a pure coincidence that he's come up with this
name and it actually links to somebody from Kentucky.
Yeah, you could say anything probably nowadays and you'll find somebody linked to something.

(34:08):
Like, I thought you were going to say it was actually a jockey, but you'd be saying he was,
yes, addicted to phanta and Kenseth's clubs.
Yeah, I mean, my theory is less about coincidence and more about his mum being a lion bastard.

(34:31):
Because I could go and tick talk and say, oh, you'll believe this, but I just woke up and my
cat was telling me all about the day that it had and asked me to go and get it some whiskers
and nobody else in the house could understand it apart from me.
You know, just put this on tick talk, doesn't mean it's true.
You'd probably get a few million views on that, right?

(34:51):
Maybe I could monetize my eyes.
Maybe that's what she's hoping.
Make sure you give the podcast a shite.
I think you do it though, certainly will.
And then your cat went and listened to the latest episode of The Culture Swally because we're
doing rat catchers.
We're doing rat catchers.
Exactly, yeah.
Serendipity.
Peek to his interest.
Yeah, it's a lovely story.
As you say, attention seeking mum.

(35:12):
Yeah, I don't believe this for a second.
What was the other one?
There's some woman claimed her son goes on about a brown dog he had in the 60s.
Yeah, 1965.
He's a brown dog.
Another one, Wreckens.
Our daughter pointed to a picture of her late brother and said, that was me when I was your
brother.
I mean, that could just be utter shit housery on the part of the little girl, you know what I mean?

(35:39):
Just, you know, have a laugh.
Just put the willies up our mouth.
Yeah.
If you can't play cruel, practical jokes on your nearest and dearest, who can you play them
on?
Yeah, I think this is just a case of just kids saying stupid random stuff and you can
more months interpret anything you want to believe into this.

(36:03):
Yeah, I mean, I chose not to believe it.
So, yeah, that's why I've been quite a serabric about it.
Yeah, it sounds like a lot of shite to me.
But hey, if it's making her happy and she's getting her views on TikTok and obviously,
you know, maybe she should get her son some flags and see how he does with him.
Yeah, maybe.
I was thinking of if I've ever had any sort of the weird experiences in my life, like,

(36:28):
like, really mad coincidences or stuff like that.
And all I can think of is like, once in a while and it's complete coincidence.
I might be thinking of it somebody and then a second day, they get a message from them,
right?
That's just coincidence.
I've not been, I've not been, oh, I wonder what Nicky's up to, I wonder how he's getting
on in Japan.
And then, ping, a message comes through from Nicky.

(36:50):
That's just coincident.
I haven't, like, I haven't said, like, I haven't, like, summoned you across the ocean.
You know, no, of course not.
Of course not.
They're not at times that I'll message someone if I get a message.
And I'll be like, oh, yeah, I was thinking about you, don't they?
Like, yeah, I thought I'd have to give you a shout.
Yeah, just a coincidence.
Yeah, you're right.
Yeah, but I just be like, maybe like, say, I might be thinking about you at that moment

(37:12):
and like a second later, you happen to send me a message or something, you know?
Yeah.
No, anybody, right?
It's pish.
Yeah, it doesn't mean that in a past life I was messaging you.
No.
Small signals.
Yeah.
Telegram.
Carry our dues.
Anyway, yeah.
That's not, that's not a gift of the Ag anymore attention.

(37:32):
She's so, I don't know.
What's your next story this week?
My next story is from the daily record this week, Greg.
And it's a nice little bit of fun.
It's new Scottish words that have been added to the Oxford English Dictionary.
Yay!
Yay! So, more than ten new Scottish entries have been recorded in the newest version of
the Dictionary.

(37:53):
On Wednesday June the 25th, it was revealed that Dictionary now includes various terms
originating from Scotland in total, 13 Scottish words and phrases have been added.
So among the new additions to Oxford English Dictionary is a word I love, "Shugly".
Shugly.
Ah.
Shugly.
So, Shugly, the word means "unsteady, wobbly or unstable".

(38:14):
I love Shugly.
Shuggy?
Shugly again.
Why is it taking so long for that word to make it to the Dictionary?
I don't know, because it's always, whenever a Scottish manager or something is, you know,
the term is, it's on a "shugly" pick.
Of course.
And I just always think that's such a, well, I don't understand.
Some others, that I'm really surprised it's taken this long to get into.

(38:37):
So according to the Oxford University Press, "shugly" has been used in Scotland.
It leases far back as 1822.
So yeah, it has taken a long time, fucking over 200 years.
Originates from adding the suffix "y" to the word "shuggle", which means to wobble.
Another word, "new the added".
And again, I can't believe it's taken so long to add this word.

(38:59):
And it's a Scottish word, of course, it's a Scottish word.
"Skushy".
"Skushy".
Yeah.
So like Shugly, the word comes to the addition of a "y".
To describe something as "skushy" is to call it "squarty".
So the most common example is "skushy cream", which refers to whip cream.
I can.
I always, when I think, you know, immediately made me think of the "chewing the fat" sketch

(39:22):
with the two Canadian guys come back to Scotland and talking about the first pipe and the fat.
There was "watter" "skushy" in order, the flair.
Additionally, a number of breakfast foods have been added to the dictionary, including
one that gets two inclusions, lawn sausage, square sausage, morning roll and tattie scone

(39:45):
are among the new entries.
Lourn sausage and square sausage refer to the same food, which is known as flat sausage,
of course.
A morning roll refers to a bread roll that is popular in Scotland, traditionally eaten
in the morning.
That's what it says in a tent, doesn't it?
Morning rolls are usually light and airy on the inside and crispy on the outside.

(40:05):
And finally, a tattie scone is made with potatoes, flour and butter and is usually eaten
as part of a full Scottish breakfast.
Another food I related item added to the dictionary, why has this never been the dictionary?
Playpiece.
Playpiece.
Playpiece, which refers to a snack, often a sandwich, given to a child to eat it, break
it down.

(40:25):
Playpiece, always in a playpiece.
Always.
Playpiece, it was like a bag of crisps, sort of, she's like a bag of crisps and a cat
all the way for herself.
Yeah, that's something like that.
I would have my playpiece.
Remember when I, because I finished primary school in England, and my mother was always pretty
good at sending me off to school well provisioned.
So we would have like a break in the morning, a break, mid afternoon and then lunchtime in

(40:47):
the middle.
So I'd always have something for my morning, then my playpiece, my morning break, then
my pack lunch and then my, I'd have something, if I hung on anything, if I didn't eat it
all, I would have something for mid afternoon.
And then when I moved to England, my mother decided that because I was a fussy bastard, I should
have school dinners instead.

(41:08):
So I didn't have a pack lunch, but she gave me a playpiece on my first day, which was
a bag of watsits.
So I come out into the playground, I yoke my bag of watsits, and it dawns on me that nobody
else has got a playpiece.
And then the teacher appears and he's like, what are you doing?
I was like, just having my playpiece.
He's like, obviously, it's not an English expression.
It was like, you're not allowed to bring snacks to school.

(41:30):
And then you should bring an pack of lunch and then you have to eat it and then can't
team to what?
So for the rest of primary school, you're just like, you know, that is, you're just fucking
hungry all the time, right?
You're just starving, you just think hungry, hungry, hungry, you're growing.
Like, nothing between my cereal and the morning and then fucking lunchtime for like two

(41:51):
years, nothing.
Shocking.
That's a disgrace.
That's child cruelty.
That's abuse.
You should soothe.
I know it's probably too late though, but it's a statue.
It's never too late.
It's never too late.
Statue of limitations has probably passed.
Other Scottish words that have been added include, "Hoching."
Brilliant.
"Beamer."
Brilliant.
And well-fired.

(42:11):
Ah.
"Hoching" means full of or swarming with something.
"Beamer" refers to a flushed or blushing face and well-fired is used to refer to roles
that are dark brown and black and crusty on top.
The final new Scottish inclusions, there's final three are "I" right.
High right.

(42:33):
Which is a sarcastic phrase used to express disbelief or contempt.
"Bummer" which don't laugh.
No.
"Bummer" is a person in a position of authority which is like normally the "bummer"
at the top of the chain and is used with a suggestion of pomposity.
Right.
And "chum" is used to join them as a companion.

(43:01):
So yeah.
Wow.
That's basically the article in terms of all the new edition words.
I love the word "beamer."
It's brilliant.
Yeah, "beamer" is great.
Taking a pure "beamer" is a great idea.
And it's lovely that a lot of these words, I'm like really hidden, we'd like that, particularly
just Scottish.
Yeah.
Well, because "chum" I don't think "chums" is like...
I think in that context you might say, "You know, where you going, oh I'm going down to

(43:25):
the shop, I'll chum you down there."
But I think it's great in English word to say, I mean, that I was in the pub with my chums.
It sounds like "posh" in that context, you know.
It is.
And I mean, that was the, when SMTV did that friends rip off of "chum"s?
Yeah, actually, yeah.
So, but I think it's included with the Scottish meaning to mean, "I'll chum me down in

(43:48):
the shops."
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And the one word that always gets me, that I always am used, and I used to use it all the
time in emails and stuff until I realised this out with...
Oh yeah.
I've sure mentioned this in the podcast before, but I never realised out with is purely a
Scottish word.
Is that an existing language?
Yeah.

(44:09):
Out with, doesn't exist in English, yeah.
It doesn't exist out with Scotland, you might say.
Exactly.
Yes.
I'd be honest with the first, she ain't just that.
Yeah, well.
I'm just double checking.
Yeah, out with the Scottish word.
Oh well.
Yeah, it means outside or beyond.
It's not common in England, but it is a recognised word in Scotland, yeah.
But yeah, I used to always wonder when I used this and people were like, "What?
Out with?"

(44:29):
And I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, it's a word."
There you go.
Well, Scotland, educating the rest of the world.
Again, exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
And one of my favourite other Scottish phrases or words we will be talking about.
Oh, look.
- Or words, we will be talking about.
- Oh, below, so.
- Oh, talk about something later.

(44:50):
- Oh, yes.
- Yes, we certainly will.
- Yeah, wonderful.
Have you seen anything else this week, Greg?
- No, that's all I'm gonna use.
- All right, perfect, right.
Well, before we go on to what were gonna be talking about
today, let's have a little word from our sponsors.
- Have you been to Sea Sterling recently?
Britain's biggest furniture salooner is getting bigger
and better every month, come and sea figure yourself

(45:11):
at Sterling till the cure train near Sterling.
- Okay, so it was your choice for this week's film or TV show.
So why don't you introduce what we're talking about today?
- Thank you very much, Greg.
Well, yes, today we are talking about the 1999
directorial debut from Lynn Ramsey Ratcatcher.

(45:32):
12-year-old James Gillespie lives on a Glasgow housing estate
during the 1973 Refuse Collector Strike.
After James' friend falls into a canal and drowns,
James becomes increasingly withdrawn and racked with guilt.
As bags of rubbish pile up and rats move in,
James starts spend time away from his family
and with his pal Kenny, his new friend in fellow outcast,

(45:53):
Margaret Anne, and taking buses into the countryside.
Starting William Edie, Toei Flanagan,
Mandy Matthews, and a whole host of Unknown
and some known Scottish actors, Ratcatcher is widely regarded
as a classic Scottish film and a must see.
But Greg, what was your first exposure of Ratcatcher?
And did you survive watching the passage
that you said you were dreading watching again?

(46:14):
- I watched it on the TV one night
when I was still living in Glasgow.
I think it must have been on BBC Two or Channel Four.
I can't remember if I just sort of stumbled across it.
I feel like I missed maybe the very beginning.
Well, wow, I wouldn't, then we go back.
When I sat down and watched it,
I thought that I had missed the beginning.

(46:36):
So when the wee boy Liam Quinn drowns,
for some reason in my mind that happened further into the film.
So I must have missed the very start of it when I saw it.
And I didn't, I did enjoy it
because I do like this type of film.
You know, it's got sort of shades of,

(46:56):
there's kind of shades of red road about it.
And I thought that.
Yeah, one or two other ones that were done over the years.
But I don't know, they can remember thinking to myself,
but I watched it,
I probably wouldn't rush to watch it again
because there's one or two moments in it that are,
for whatever reason, like quite,
I find quite affecting.

(47:17):
I don't know why,
but this is sort of my sort of,
in-air sentimentality.
But it's an astonishing film, really.
They were watching it back again this time.
I really thought to myself.
I mean, it's like a, it's a fucking, it's an achievement this film,
I think, you know, it's very, very, very,

(47:40):
it's very Scottish.
And it's almost like, particularly Glad's region
and it's history and the family dynamic and everything else.
And the fact that it's not just being a successful film.
And so I mean, obviously,
it's not made millions and millions of fucking daughters
because, you know, it's not a big cinema film,
but it was incredibly successful

(48:01):
when it's got multiple awards.
And the director, Lynne Ramsey,
has gone on to be an internationally successful director.
And this was a first film.
So, yeah, I mean, it's not a laugh,
although even the light moments,
you still feel a sense of dread
that something fucking horrible is gonna happen.

(48:21):
And it generally does.
(laughs)
But, yeah, it's, I mean, it's a hell of a film.
How about you, when was the first time you watched it?
- I'd probably the same.
I wonder if it was the same time,
it would have been when it was on TV,
late one night on the BBC,
and I remember being kind of sucked in to it
and kind of horrified what I'd seen.

(48:44):
And really, it's a film that stays with you.
And I, similar to you,
it was kind of like, well, I'm not gonna rush towards that again,
but was obviously hugely impressed by it.
And thought, you know, as you say, it is a work of art.
And it's, I hadn't watched it again
until last week, and this week,
I watched it twice for the broadcast.

(49:05):
And I did kind of get up and potter
about one certain scene, the second time,
'cause I was like, oh, yeah, I know what's coming.
So I'm not gonna watch this.
I'll just listen to it.
It's a film that really kind of draws you in.
And it's a film that,
I don't know, way I can describe it,
it's really kind of, you're not meant to know
how you feel when you're watching it in a way.

(49:26):
It's, as you say, there's kind of a sense of dread,
all over, it starts off with a fucking bang with Brian dying.
And immediately, you're like, oh, okay.
And I think it's quite clever in terms of like,
a lot of films would probably have kept that.
You would have James having had like this secret

(49:46):
or this guilt and not knowing what it is.
And until maybe the end is a big reveal.
Yeah.
Or three quarters of the way through
and you're like, oh, that's why he's behaving the way he is.
That's where he is.
But no, it's so brave to just like,
nah, let's just do this.
And the fact that, you know,
Brian's the first character you see
and you kind of think, okay, so it's gonna be about him.

(50:08):
He's the main character, you know, runs off from his mom.
But no, it's James's film.
Brian's dead within the first few minutes.
And I mean, death's a huge theme of this film
and also like the loss of an instance and stuff.
And you're right.
I mean, I think it's a highly personal film as well.
But Ramsey said like a lot of it was based on her childhood.
In terms of she grew up in flats like that.

(50:31):
She grew up like close to that canal.
And it was, that was the way of life, you know, in terms of that.
And yeah, she was 29 when she made this.
Which is just an incredible achievement.
As you say, it's, you know, she's gone on
to have huge international success and it's great.
It's wonderful to see.
And she still speaks so passionately like this.

(50:52):
And this film is a work of art.
It really is in terms of some of the, the, the, the shots
and the way it's filmed and the, the, the, the kind of the heart that has.
It's, you know, it's such a strange film like it's, it's, it's, it's not a pleasant watch.
You know, say, but you kind of cap like a way and take your eyes off screen.
But like, it has like a, I know certain parts do have like a dream like quality.

(51:13):
But the whole film has like a bit of a dream kind of like state.
And it's funny that you said that about Red Road.
That was one of the films that I kind of thought I could compare it to.
When I was, when I was watching it and thinking about it,
I think probably the director of Red Road had like a bit of influence from that catcher.
As I think probably a lot of, um, Scottish filmmakers do.

(51:34):
Yeah, I think so.
I mean, there's, you know, there's this, most of the time we're with the character of James,
most of the time.
So they were, you know, and they, they shoot in the scenes with the kids,
when there's kids and adults, they, we don't, we only see the adults
and sort of like the, the hips down or the, or the waist down and stuff,
you know, or so it's very much, you know, she, she, she wants us to see the world

(51:58):
like Glasgow, 1973, the Ben Streit, the sort of domestic turmoil,
the, the hopefulness that, um, they're going to get this new council house
with an indoor toilet and running water, et cetera.
Um, and also the kind of hopelessness of it as well from the kids perspective,
you know what I mean?

(52:18):
Um, which is, it's, it's quite a powerful,
uh, approach because it's sort of almost impossible to take an adult view on what's going on.
When you're watching the film, perhaps easier when you're, when you're thinking about the film
and talking about it, like we are now, but when you're watching the film,
it's very, very difficult to put an ad to put this, to see it through the prison of being an adult

(52:41):
because you spend so much time with these kids.
It's particularly with James and, you know, his encounters and his dealings with other kids
and the adults, they're all very authentic, you know?
Um, yeah, I don't know if this is a film where she has, where then,
man, he's sort of encouraged, you know, sort of taking the Peter Mullin approach

(53:01):
of encouraging more improvisation, unless script.
Yeah.
It feels like that, you know, I can't imagine that these kids,
you're going to want to give them tons and tons of dialogue to learn
because they're not quite young, especially William E.D. who plays James.
So it does feel like a lot of it is reactive and improvised and the scenes are kind of guided.

(53:21):
Do you know what I mean?
I would say so, and because it feels natural as well, you've said.
And that's one thing about this film, there's not a lot of dialogue.
No, at all.
It really is.
There's a lot of scenes where it's just facial expressions or, you know, a lot of the time James is off
in his own, there's a whole patch of, you know, when he goes to the new houses and stuff,

(53:42):
there's, you know, minutes and minutes of just nothing said at all.
You just left with him and there's a lot that goes kind of unsaid, even, you know,
the scenes when he's with Margaret Ann as well, they feel like a natural way that they're talking.
And that, you know, I do think they maybe have been given kind of certain marks to hit,

(54:02):
but improvise and say what's natural or there has been a script and do one on script
and one improvising and see what happens.
But yeah, it's very powerful in terms of the interactions that a lot of them have.
Especially as you say, the older kids as well, I think you can act that way at that age
and have it come across as so natural.

(54:23):
It's particularly like the scene where they pick up James and they're thinking about swinging
them in the canal and the one guy's kind of like, "I'll leave them the way they are.
The way they are boys are talking, it's very natural."
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's just, like, bath boys, you know, testing their limits and even, you know, when they're
swearing and all that, it kind of feels like, probably, how we all swore when we were at that age.

(54:48):
And it says, you know, as you pronounce these swear words there, you know, there's a sort of
affectation the way you see it, you're way the way you say them. It's not natural.
Here in the kids, tell us, get, call on somebody, I can't tell them it, fuck off.
You know, like, if you see that in the street, it doesn't feel, it's different from seeing
like a grown man in the pub using a language like that.
And that's, it's the same here with these boys, you know, they're all trying to be grown up.

(55:12):
You know, when, yeah, then when they're cannabullian, median, that is, you know, that is them
truck like being a version of what they think men are. But the reality is, they're all the same age
as hard. I mean, she's supposed to be 14, right? Or 15?
Yeah, I think about 15, yeah, I think, I'm sorry, because Margaret and yet, Margaret and
James is 12. Yeah, I think, I think Margaret and James are about, yeah, maybe 15.

(55:37):
Yeah, and the scenes with her and James, you know, this is, this is where we see that, I mean,
I don't know how old the Ann Mullin was when she played her. I mean, I think the first thing I would
say, particularly about the back scene is, you know, I mean, it's, it's a real art house film,
seen this, I think it's best made it describe it. You wouldn't, you wouldn't find, you wouldn't get

(56:01):
a scene like that in a film down at your local multiplex. I don't think so it's, you know, it,
you feel, and I think this is the, I think this is what she watch it feel, then man's they,
you can feel incredibly uncomfortable because even though there's a, there is a degree of innocence
what they're both doing, you know, they don't know any better. This is their idea of what

(56:23):
sexuality is. You know, James is the only one who seems to be nice to Margaret Ann of all the other
boys that are around and she, you know, she feels a certain way toward him and it's not really
sexual, although they are naked when they're in the back together and there's a scene where they're
in bed together and stuff but it's not really, it's not really a sexual energy. It's more like what

(56:50):
like perceived adult behavior from Margaret Ann and James, you know, the, the first time when James
is egg dawn to get off with her by the other boys, he, he just lies on top of her, you know,
because he thinks that's what you're supposed to do and then it kind of cuts and it turns out
that the other boys have gone and he's just, they're lying on top of her and she's kind of,

(57:11):
she's just sort of holding them. Do you know what I mean? I think that's the, the relationship is
beautifully done and I agree with you in terms of the bath scene, you know, which I'll come on to but
you're right. I mean, the, the first meeting that they have, the boys have thrown Morgan's glasses into
the, the canal and she's asking James if he can get them, he can see them but he says no. Yeah.
And then sits on the wall with her and she's a scab in her knee and says, do you want to touch it

(57:37):
and grabs his hand and puts it like kind of further up on her thigh. Now Margaret Ann's just being
sexually abused by these boys. Yeah. So that's what she knows. Yeah. That's what she's used to.
Then as you say in the, in the later scene where they're back at the flat and the boys are basically
taking turns on her and when James is turning, he just lies there and then you're right. It's, it's

(58:00):
so well done that he's just lying on top of her and then you see almost the passage of time has passed
just still their line, they're cuddling. It's almost like they found each other in terms of she knows
James isn't going to hurt her and James has found kind of a comfort and solace because all the stuff
that he's going through in his head at the moment, he can't tell anyone at home. He's got nothing at

(58:21):
home in terms of comfort in that way. So he's kind of found peace and like solace and I think it is
beautifully well done in the bath scene when he's kind of taken care of her saying she's got nets and
yeah, making sure she's she's okay in the in the bath together and that's the only time the entire
film James laughs is when they're in the bath. They're completely relaxed and yeah, I completely

(58:44):
agree you do feel kind of uncomfortable watching it because it is very voyeuristic and you're,
you know, you're watching a 15 year old girl on a 12 year old boy naked in the bath and but they're
they're having fun. They're letting go. They're being themselves and it's the only time in the film
really both of them can and it's kind of broken with a humorous way where Margaret and St. I

(59:05):
need to pee. Yeah. And you think she's just going to pee in the bath but no, she gets on here and
goes to the toilet and then just cuts them sitting in the sandwiches watching TV. Yeah. And again,
in silence and it's a it's a lovely scene that they're just so comfortable with each other.
The as you said, there's nothing sexual there, nothing at all and yeah, she's all fine. And then of

(59:26):
course, unfortunately, the next time he sees there, the boys are taking turns on her and the outside
lavy. Yeah. And you know, but he does go and tries to get her glasses but you can't do it.
Can't reach unfortunately. Yeah, it's which is that I'm I met for really in terms of they can't
reach the glasses in that he's trying to help her but you can't reach her. Yeah, I guess so,
little bit of yeah, yeah, we a little bit a little flourish later perhaps. Yes. And there's

(59:52):
something about because with everything now, things like me too and the stuff that's come from that,
I think the I mean, because this film's 25 years old, it puts more than 25 years old at this stage.
And obviously they for people early age, 19 and eight is cliched it sounds, doesn't sound like that
long ago, doesn't think it's caught of essentially ago. Do you know what I mean, but obviously it was.

(01:00:13):
And the way that she like in one of the reviews, Margaret Anne is described as the local sexual
punching bag, which is quite a good when apt description of her character. And I think without
you know, with everything that's happened since in the with regard to like I said already me to

(01:00:35):
how women are and girls are treated and exploited and everything else. It sort of makes those scenes
even more powerful than they probably were at the time. You know what I mean, and this probably,
if we think back to our own sort of childhoods grown up in the in the 1980s and early 90s, although

(01:00:56):
Margaret Anne is I guess quite an extreme example, we probably knew some girls who were treated in
sort of similar ways, you know what I mean, I could think of a couple of girls who I mean,
I don't know if they were treated as horrendously as Margaret Anne's treated in that catcher,
but there was definitely girls who who acted a bit like Margaret Anne and who were treated by

(01:01:19):
like her by the kind of peers at school, the boys in particular. I know exactly what you mean, yeah.
And I would say yes, so I can think of a couple of top my head probably. Yeah, I can see that.
Because I did think about that when I was watching it the second time in terms of, you know,
setting 1973. So I was thinking, yeah, 20 years later, would have been 1993, I'd have been 12. So I

(01:01:43):
was James's age, I was trying to think about 20 years later as a 12-year-old, you know, how did I,
particularly like him, you know, running around in the field and stuff and just being out of all our
hours and someone else like, well, yeah, I did that as well, like in terms of, you know, that I didn't do a
lot of the other stuff that he does, but yeah, like in those 20 years, things hadn't changed that much

(01:02:05):
really in Scotland, whereas now another 20 years on, things have changed drastically, yeah, actually.
Yeah, I mean, I think about this quite a while because I've got to mention a few times in the
podcast over the years, I've got my teenage girls and it's, you know, when they're there, they've got
their friend, the friends groups and their social life and this stuff they get up to and I always

(01:02:27):
think, you know, they compared to when I was 16, 17, you know, I feel that things have changed a lot
for kids to your point. I mean, when I was James's age, I was doing a lot of the same things, you know,
they, you know, you get in your bike, you were just fucking disappear for the day, you would get your
mum and dad had no idea where you were or what you were getting up to unless you got in trouble

(01:02:51):
and then somebody brought you home, but, you know, you were just, you know, I don't know if my parents
ever sort of lung their hands wondering where I was and what I was doing when I was out and about.
I suspect probably not because they had no reason to think that I wasn't a hundred percent safe
and being sensible, whereas, you know, I don't think that, you know, my oldest daughter's 17,

(01:03:14):
fairly sensible girl, but when she's out and about in her own, she's never far from
my thoughts, you know, what she's doing, who she with, is she being, is she being sensible, is she
being an asshole, you know, all that kind of thing. And, where I just think it, I think, and maybe
it's the, they were mass media, maybe we hear a lot more about what can happen to teenagers and how

(01:03:38):
social media has changed, what it is to be a teenager or a minor or whatever, I don't know what it is.
I guess it's just the, the rolling on of time, but to your point, apart from the clothes, and there'd
been, there'd been one or two more channels on the TV, I don't think there's a massive difference
between 1973 and 1993, you know. Main difference being, there was no last days on the tins in 1993.

(01:04:02):
Faced out by then, I think. I don't know, I'm not sure, I need to double check, then.
So, the, what sets off the chain of events, really, as I've said, young Ryan, he's, you know,
and it's a beautiful start to the film, he's twirling around in his mum's neck, and then he just gets
a clip over the year fucking brilliant, which takes you out of the, you know, the beautiful twirling

(01:04:26):
music and stuff. That's immediately, you're like, I'm in, I'm in. This is so Scottish, and
often go and get new shoes, but he wants to go and play with James and it can also, he runs off.
And exactly to say, the mum's just like, oh, fuck it, then I'll just go and not worry about what he's
up to. It's like, I don't have time to go and get him. It's fine. James and Ryan have a, like, they're

(01:04:49):
playing in the canal, having a little play fight, we're modding stuff, things get a little about
at hand. James Chuck's Ryan in and runs off. And he does take a look back and sees that Ryan's not
emerging. Yeah. Is James to blame for killing Ryan? Is the, the very first question to ask?
I don't think he's, you know, because he doesn't, he hasn't pushed him over with the intention of

(01:05:12):
drowning him. It's, you know, it's horseplay that's got a bit out of hand. What he is guilty of is not
going back or trying to raise the alarm or something like that. That's what he's guilty for. I mean,
obviously the character, well, I don't know if it's obvious, but it seems that he belames himself
for pushing him in as well as not going back. But, um, be certainly, I think that's what he's guilty of.

(01:05:35):
Yeah, I think, and obviously the whole film is, you know, he's racked with guilt and he kind of
can't comprehend the scenes where Ryan's body is found and then the funeral and then getting the
various shoes that his mum went to buy for Ryan, those lovely little sandals that are too wee for him.
He could tell that he's completely, yeah, absolutely racked with guilt at this. And is it guilt

(01:06:00):
of what he's done or guilt being found out or guilt of just, it's a tricky one. It never can
add else into that, but I wondered because he does seem as the film progresses, he does seem to,
you know, have less guilt as time goes on until the end when Kenny tells him that he saw him.
And then it's almost like, oh, fuck, I thought I'd got to weigh with it. So it is a case of does,

(01:06:26):
does James, the guilt way off and he thinks I've gotten away with this and we're soon going to be
getting a new house off to a new life and I can leave this behind me. But when his friend Kenny
says that he saw him and then he's like, oh, I'm fucked. And we'll come on to the ending later
in terms of that. But I just wondered if he did actually feel guilty or he was feeling guilty about

(01:06:46):
getting caught. I don't know. I think he does feel guilty because he's old enough to understand
the implications of sort of letting Ryan drown, which is what he's essentially done, you know?
But then from the viewer's perspective, I think you know, you kind of want to let him off the hook

(01:07:06):
because you're like, well, he's only 12 years old. Look at where he lives, look at how he lives,
his family dynamic, the communities in, you know, they're a big part he wants to let him off the
hook for it. You don't really want them to get found out. No. And as you say, his kind of home life,
he lives with his ma, dad and two sisters and it's, it's not an unhappy home life, really. And that's the,

(01:07:33):
you know, the conflict I have, I don't know if I have a conflict with dad. And we'll come on to
to dad play by Tommy Feinig in the same bit like his ma played by Mandy Matthews. And it's a good
mum. She's taking care of the kids. She's giving them rewards, checking the furniture nets. You know,
she obviously loves her, her family. And Mandy Matthews is great. And she's such a, a strange actress

(01:07:57):
in terms of like, you look at IMDb, I, I'm convinced, like, I'd already written her down for the Cosmo
War. Yeah. And then you look at her filmography and you're like, oh, she's hardly been in anything,
but she just has that familiar face. Yeah. That I just think she's been in everything. And I'm
thinking, well, you know, she was in looking after JoJo, she's good part in that, you know,
Tinsel Towne. And I don't know, is it because she looks slightly like a knockoff Florene Macintosh

(01:08:20):
that you're kind of thinking she's been in so much, but, you know, she's, she's a brilliant actress.
Now, I wondered why she hadn't been in more things. The thing, the first thing that I saw her in,
and she does have quite, she's, she's quite striking, you know what I mean? I don't want to say that
she's unusual, she looks unusual or whatever, because that's a very horrible thing to say, but she's

(01:08:42):
certainly striking. The first thing I saw her in was an episode of was a series of Taggart, where, of
course, where all these old age pensioners are getting murdered. It was a good one, actually. That was
the first thing I saw her in, and I was quite, I must have been quite young when I saw that, because
I think it came out maybe either very late 1980s or very early 1990s that one, but I remember watch,

(01:09:06):
it must have been early 1990s, because I don't think I would have been, I'd have got to watch Taggart
in the, well, I don't know maybe I would have done, but anyway, regardless, that was the first thing I
liked to watch Grange Hill, but you were right towards Taggart. Well, my, my mother was always very much,
well, he'll, you know, he might copy what he sees in Grange Hill, because they're all kids like him,
whereas he's unlikely to copy what he sees for the degree Scott doing on Taggart, because he's

(01:09:31):
scared of snakes, you know, I don't know, whatever. He's a big Jesse, but it's not going to make
spaghetti ball an aith. I don't know, I think there was something, because I, again, I was living in
England when that Taggart series was on, and I think, I think, you know, because it was Scottish,
it was kind of our thing, Taggart, you know, like my stepdad was English, and he,

(01:09:52):
I suppose, is English, and he likes Taggart, you know what I mean, but it was sort of, there wasn't a
lot of Scottish things that made it onto the TV in England's back then, even, I don't think, I don't
think even take the high road was on ITV, it was Grenada, Channel 3 in the area of England that we
lived back then, and I don't think any, but Taggart definitely did, because we used to watch it,

(01:10:14):
and that was the first thing that I saw Mandy Matthews in, and I remember seeing her in Tensseltown,
so I was, I was, I was aware over when I saw this, for sure, and the thing is, with the, the, the
thing that I like about how then Ramsay kind of depicts the family dynamic is that they used to touch
on it already, it's not all fucking hardship and poverty, you know, they, they are a family that

(01:10:40):
don't have a lot of money in the house, you know, they're late with the rent, they're hoping to get
this nice house out in the country, the dads are labourer, a don't, it's not clear whether
mum goes to work or whether to just wants the house, and I think she just wants the house, because
there's a scene where it gives her their wages before it goes out for a night out, so they, yeah,
the, it feels cramped and overcrowded, you know, they're all sort of sleeping on top of each other

(01:11:05):
and everything else, but there is a lot, there's a lot of light moments as well, like this scene when
she's teaching James how to jive, and then this scene's where the recess there, and she's in the bath,
and she's got, she's taken the knit comb to her head and all that sort of stuff, and you know,
and there's just moments when Tommy Flannigan's like a sleep bin, James is a sleep, James is just sprinkling

(01:11:27):
comb, a vice-crispies in his face, like for no reason, what's with that, you know, or he's,
or he's, he's, he's kind of fixing the hole in his mums, the toe hole in his mums tights, and,
you know, like, it's not like, the kids as much as the dad is depicted as being, I guess, sort of
fairly typical working-class dad of the time, likes a drink, goes to his work, is softer in his daughters,

(01:11:52):
than he is in his son, you know, I think that's all fairly authentic, you know, and I, I think that's
beautifully depicted as well in a very subtle way in terms of, it's almost like he does, he seems James
a disappointment, he's trying with James, but not getting through because I read a couple of views,

(01:12:14):
you know, they were like, oh, the alcoholic father, I don't think he's an alcoholic, he just,
he likes a drink, and, you know, and I know that's a very Scottish thing, I'm not an alcoholic,
I just like a drink, but he does, and he's, you know, it's, he works hard and comes home with me that
he likes a drink, but he's still taking care of the house, you know, the opening scene where you see

(01:12:35):
him, he comes in and fixes a trap to catch, you know, the mice, and I think that he's going out to work,
he's, you know, obviously, loves his wife, and, you know, I know she says, like, you only tell me,
you're, I'm gorgeous when you're half cut, but he obviously does, apart from, you know, one scene,
which I think is a reactionary thing to something, and he obviously, as you say, I think it's really

(01:12:59):
well done that he obviously loves the daughters because when he's watching the old firm game,
and tells James to get my beer, and I love that part where James takes a scoop of it, and
we've all done that, 12-year-old, having your, your first scoop of, yeah, and especially I can with
that lacy on it, it's just perfect, and the daughter sits, and you know, he's trying to get James to

(01:13:21):
watch the football with him, and James is not interested, and when the daughter is, can I watch it,
and he's, of course, you can't, and, you know, you tell him, and later on where the daughter comes in
with something, I think it's a suit jacket, and he's got a 50p, and he says, you keep it, and then the
other daughter is, can I have 50p, of course you can, it gives it to her. But then he comes home with football

(01:13:41):
boots, for James, and he's, he's trying to, and James, like, I don't like football, he's, he's trying to
make James into something he's not, and you can read into that, all you want in terms of, you know,
uh, my son doesn't like football, so therefore he must be, you know, homosexual, I think, is
probably the implication that they're, maybe he's thinking, you know, back in 73, and I wonder if he

(01:14:05):
does view James as not a disappointment, but just he's, he's, he's trying to kind of find a common ground.
It's probably easier with the girls, because they're daddy's girls, but he's trying with James,
but he's struggling, and that's why it kind of feels like he's not paying him enough attention. I guess.
The scene, the, the scene that's quite painful between the dad and James is after the dad has saved

(01:14:27):
Kenny from the canal, and he's, you know, he's gone back to sleep, and the people from the council come
around to like a pre-Asler living conditions, obviously, to see whether it's time to move them to the
new house or not, and James lets them in, he's excited, he lets them in, because, you know, he's desperate,
to, he's desperate to change his environment, right? And, you know, like it, it, it sort of feels like

(01:14:50):
it's gone okay to some extent, but then the, the dad, Bollocks James, were letting them in, because
he's obviously, he's just falling asleep after being in a canal, he's feet are black with the, and all that,
he's, he's all dirty, he's been asleep, he's not dressed, you know, he's got a shirt off when he's
showing these two people around, and he says, well, if we don't get the house, it'll be your fault, you know,

(01:15:13):
which is, they can, a big thing to put on that 12-year-olds shoulders, you know, I guess, yeah, people
maybe weren't as sensitive to how they spoke to kids back, well, they definitely weren't as sensitive
about how they spoke to kids back then, and, you know, what, the impact that words and things could
have on the kids imagination back then, I think maybe people were a bit more thoughtful about it in these

(01:15:34):
days, but, eh, but it's a shame because it's like that, you think, well, maybe that's a moment where
there'll be a little moment of closeness there because maybe this is it, maybe this is the time,
we're going to get a new house, should be excited, and everything, but because the place is a mess,
when James let them in, he ends up getting a balladkin.
Can you no fucking dance, right?

(01:15:56):
Eh, who's letting my gear for? Eh?
- Can I afford that? - Can you, you can't.
We'll be stuck in the house.
Well, if we thought it's your fucking fault, you can go and say,
I think it's because Dad is embarrassed.

(01:16:20):
Yeah, boy, that's exactly what I'm doing.
And he takes out and on James and then, of course, later when masks and the neighbours had the council
round, did anyone come round? He's like, no, because I guess he doesn't want to admit
what had happened or anything like that. Again, later on, once he gets his bravery award and he goes

(01:16:41):
to the pub and then he gets into the fight with those guys, he comes home and my first thing,
she's caving, she wants to check, and he slaps her.
Yeah. And it's because he has been, one, he's probably embarrassed, but two, he's almost like,
well, I got set up on by these guys, so now I need to get some sort of payback, but retrobue

(01:17:01):
stuff, or something like, I need to feel, I need to do something to someone.
Well, the thing is to get that out.
The guys that set about him are all younger than him.
Yeah. And they've set about him because he's drunk and he said something to them.
And, you know, there's that sort of impotence and frustration that maybe he's thinking, you know,
for having me being for the fact I was holding out the girls cat or that I was a few sheets of the

(01:17:24):
window, whatever, I'd have held a better account of myself from front of these young, this young team.
And it's just, I think, I can, I took it as he's just, he's just taken that, he's, he's frustration out
on her because they, they, they, they, because they do reconcile the next time we see them,
he's apologised and toured and, you know, but the, the way that she reacts to him slapping her,

(01:17:45):
it doesn't feel like that's a first time, right?
Yeah, I thought that. She, she just sort of turns away and then, you know, and even when he's
apologised and toured and hugging her, she's just sort of let some off the hook and again,
you get that feeling that she sort of conveys this until the next time, you know?
Yeah. And that's why Dye is a very conflicting character because it's, it's not a bad man really.

(01:18:07):
Okay, yes, he does have a couple of moments, but he's a good guy at heart, but it's, it's difficult
to root for him when he does things like that. And you're kind of, he's an odd, yeah, one,
but of course we're, I guess, seeing that through James's eyes, yeah, in terms of it.
I think it was, I think it was taught, I think it was taught me flying again that, so I can

(01:18:28):
have pulled me into this the first time I saw it because I recognised him from, um,
but they've heard obviously and also a gladiator, I'd seen gladiator before I saw Ratt catcher
because I saw this a baby two or three, maybe even four or five years after it was me that was
big, big before I saw it. And he, he, he, he wasn't quite the household name, well he's not,

(01:18:50):
I wouldn't say he's a household name now, by any stretch, but he's certainly quite a famous actor
now where it is. And see is a household face? Yeah, well that's a thing, yes, that's because, you know,
but I think we've mentioned about him before when he was before he became an actor, he was, uh,
Adi J and Adorman in Glasgow and unfortunately was, uh, attacked one night in the city centre,

(01:19:12):
and that's where he got, uh, the scars on each side of his face. And arguably those scars have
worked for him in terms of some of the roles that he's gone on to have. But, yeah, you know, this role,
you know, it's a, it's a, for all the reasons that you've mentioned, it's quite a complex role,
and he's quite subtle about it, you know, in, in, in, in Harry Potter's, that he's not, you know,

(01:19:35):
when he's drunk, he's not, it's just most of the time when he's still a drunk, he's just sort of nodding off,
you know, in the sofa, and he's, you know, he's, he's attacked out with, uh, with his wife and, you know,
I mean, we miss, you know, there's a, there's a great scene between the merrier they are,
and when he comes home with the tin of paint, and he's, he's like, oh, that's a sort of pastel colour,
and she said, it's grey, you know, and that's a grey, that moment that between the two of them,

(01:19:58):
and they say, are they on in the film? You know, before, obviously after, uh, Ryan's drowning everything,
it's, it's, it's when you're still not quite sure what the tone of the film is going to be, because you
just said this, horrible tragedy of a little boy drowning in the canal, and then this is quite
light moment between these two characters, sort of having a bit of a friendly, a little friendly,

(01:20:19):
and a disagreement over whether to attend a paint's light blue, uh, light blue or grey, you know, it's, uh,
it's as you say, it's very subtle, the, the, the hints of their relationship, the one that's
summed up for me that I thought, and it's a strange thing to say, like, oh, okay, he's a good guy,
it's nice, is, he's getting ready to go out and, um, to work, I think, and he, he says he can't find

(01:20:41):
his fags, yeah, obviously find James has pinched them, yeah, and he does say to mad, like, okay,
oh, do you need any fags? Yeah, she says no, I've got, yeah, he's okay, and it shows, I know it sounds
a stupid thing, but it shows the good guy that he's asking her, do you know, do you need any, because I'm,
I'm going to get it, so do you need any? But yeah, I thought that was a, a very subtle thing, but just

(01:21:03):
stood out for me in kind of a, he said, he said, he's a decent guy, just, don't know, you can just,
just, it was different back then. Yeah, feel, maybe, you feel that he's very aware of his
responsibilities as the man of the house, at the time that this film was set, you know,
very traditional values, maybe, you know, maybe old-fashioned, been comparison to the 21st century,

(01:21:26):
but he's very, he's very aware of the fact, my job is to go to work and bring home the money, and,
you know, he sets out the housekeeping money for his wife, whilst, you know, he's being girls getting
issues, already for him, and these older daughters going to get his jacket from the dry cleaners, and
all this, you know, he's like, well, this is, you know, I, I fill by obligations, now I'm going out for a

(01:21:51):
pint, and then there's a, there's a brief scene before the scene where he gets set, where he gets set
a point, when he's, there's some women he's got in tour with, when he's a bit pissed, he's trying to
get him to stay out, and he's like, no, no, no, no, I've got to get a gog back for the wanes,
gog back for the wanes, and he gives it a few coins here, he's going to get a drink,
look after yourself, Darlin, nothing goes, so there's not, there's not even a suggestion that he's

(01:22:13):
like a Philanderer, or anything, he's just a bit of a, a bit of a piss artist, like probably 75% of
the men and working in Glasgow at that time, in that community, probably where.
And I have to laugh at the, because, you know, he is, he saves Kenny's life, and, you know, from drowning in
the canal, he's, and there's no hesitation, he gets up and goes, and he's, he can't swim, and saves his

(01:22:36):
life, and I think that shows that he's a good guy, and there's another, the great seeding that follows
is James is walking back from his trip that he's been on, which will come into a second,
and a kid on a bike saying, "You're a dazahiro", like it's a slagging, and, did you, did you, did you do it?
Is the, did you recognise the kid on the bike? No, I think, it's Steven Perdon,

(01:22:58):
and it's a kid, "Shell Soup Bob", yes, no, I don't know, I can recognise him.
"You're a dazahiro".
No, I was, I think I was, I was, I was still reeling from the, you know, what is, they, they, they say what he said,

(01:23:18):
and it's supposed to be, it's supposed to be like a, like a, derisery thing,
"Ah, hi, hi, you're dazahiro", like it's some sort of term of abuse,
Oh, really? Well, yeah, the complex character, but we're fans of him, I think, at the end of the day.
I like Tommy Fan again, you know, it's always good, it's always good when we see a Scottish actor,

(01:23:43):
be they can make in their wee internationally, because he's obviously going on to
his, then, I just saw him in "Mobland", he's got a, it's almost like a bit of a cameo in that mobland,
but he's in it, obviously, probably in the part that he's probably the best known for is Chibs
and "Sons of Anarchy" and "Main" if, if, if, MC, you know, he's, he's popped up in that a couple of times,

(01:24:04):
I think, just as a, kind of, guest role, you know? Although I've not watched it, I just happened to
see it on his IMDB when I was doing my notes for the podcast, but he, it was Robert Carlyleil,
who persuaded him to give act in a try, because he was, he was involved, he was involved with a
rain dog theater that Robert Carlyleil set up in Glasgow in the 90s, and he's, he's, he's,

(01:24:28):
he's, like, the friends when I was reading about him and apparently Robert Carlyleil said to him,
"Why don't you?" I said, this was after he'd been attacked, I think, and he said that, "Well,
why don't you give act?" And he's done incredibly well. Yeah, yeah, it really has, I just love
a, I like to hear stories like that, that's really nice. Yeah, I think two, kind of stand out scenes or

(01:24:49):
parts that we need to talk about. Let's just get to Kenny and Snowball. Um, they're, they're
cool, they're cool. I take it, I take it this was a scene that you weren't scared to watch. And I,
this is the scene that I had to get up and walk away, um, from when I watched it the second time.
Kenny, who is neurodiversion? I don't know. Yeah, he said, he said, "Ord's character,

(01:25:13):
boy, like he would be in 73, I guess he would have been special is the, or, or a poor we soul,
a personal is, personal is, Frankie Boyle, we described that. Yeah, yeah. Um, he's, he's a big animal
lover and he's, he's joined the RSPCA and he's got the badge for it and everything, gets a pet mouse
for his birthday. Yeah. And takes it downstairs to show James in, in this cage and then the, the big boys

(01:25:40):
as I kept writing them down. That's the big boys. Um, they get a hold of Snowball and are chucking him
around and see if he can fly. And I, I genuinely had to watch that behind my fingers the first time I
watched him and then I couldn't watch it the second time because I was terrified, you know,
what was going to happen to Snowball. As it turns out, nothing happens in that instance. He's,

(01:26:03):
gets put back in his cage, Kenny runs upstairs with them, but then Kenny ties him to a balloon and
sends him to the moon. Yeah, sends him to the moon. And a bizarre little sequence then that, you know,
Snowball's fine. Snowball goes to the moon and lives on the moon with all these other mice that
are there. Yeah. Because of course the moon's, moon's made a cheese. So yeah, of course. Yeah. And yeah,

(01:26:24):
a bizarre but amazing sequence and you can a glad things work out well for Snowball. Oh, it's,
even though you know that that is either James or Kenny's fantasy, you know, you sort of, you sort of
give yourself permission to go along with it because it takes the edge of what you've just watched,

(01:26:45):
you know, because obviously at some point Snowball came plummeting back to earth, but you know,
you sort of, you have to kind of let yourself go along with it because the minute that he appears
at the entrance to the close with the cage with the mouse and you're just like, oh, fuck,
see it. You know, get back up the stairs. And then weirdly, him tying Snowball to the balloon,

(01:27:09):
it's not as bad as what you think's going to happen in the scene before because obviously these
these big boys are bad bastards and they're trying to encourage each other to stamp on this mouse and
kill it and everything. And even James and James is the whole Kenny thing. James is really good to Kenny
for most of the film, you know, I tell you, he does lose his patience, so we bet right at the very end,

(01:27:33):
but that's not Kenny's fault, but he takes out and Kenny. But he's, he's the only one who's sort of
good to Kenny and he indulges him, he tells him about the perch in the canal and you know, he talks to
him about his, about the RSPC, about his RSPCA and all his talk about having a zoo and everything else.

(01:27:53):
He's really, he's really good to Kenny. And for what it's worth, I don't, I don't know if the
wee boy you play as Kenny is playing neurodivergent or if he is neurodivergent, but he might be my favourite
character. Yeah, you know, he's just, he's just, you know, if I think about when I was wee boy
living in Glasgow at the time, some of the things he says, he says, and some of the things that he claims.

(01:28:18):
Yeah, that's what Ken's, I know that he takes it a bit far, but that's what Ken's done,
so I remember Ken's saying, oh, I'm, you know, I'm going to get my mat back are you?
My name's James Wilson, I was a flagdainer. Yeah, I think he had made a few some of what.
He is a, yeah, he's a wonderful character. He probably is my favourite as well, I think, because,

(01:28:43):
yeah, he just comes out with his, it just comes out with whatever is in his head. And comes out,
as you see, James tells him over at the perch and he's like, I'll catch it, I'll catch it on my neck.
Next time you see Kenny, he's there with his net trying to catch the perch. And he's determined,
and it's, it's the innocence of him, I think. And I would say it's definitely Kenny's dream sequence

(01:29:05):
about Snowball going to the moon because later, at the end when James gets pissed off and he says,
you know, you know, Snowball is off to the moon and that's when James snaps, he's like,
Snowball's dead, you killed him. Yeah, yeah. Is it a name? Hi, I'm Snowball.
Snowballs did Kenny. You're a couton. I would argue, is that a better ending for a snowball, because if

(01:29:31):
the big boys had just stamped in his head, it's instant death. That poor mouse has been
tied to a balloon. How long he floats away for? We don't know before he comes crashing down to air.
Yeah. So that poor mouse, hopefully, had a heart attack before then. You would hope. Yeah. Yeah.
I don't like scenes with croakless animals. And if I have, and if I had to be critical of Irvin Welsh,

(01:29:55):
particularly his earlier books, he does, there's a, there's a scene in glue in particular that,
and now glue is one of my favourite books, but when I guess to that point, with the two guard dogs,
I flick past the P.G.s past it. Yeah. It just, it seems, it just seems too gratuitous,
you know, the description and everything else and what these kids do to these dogs and stuff.

(01:30:17):
And I just, I don't like that kind of thing. I just, I don't know why. Yeah, no, I'm the same.
I'm, I'm currently reading Dead Men's trousers and my main concern, I can't really remember what
happens. I remember the big outline, but um, total. Yeah. I'm kind of like, I can't remember what happens
to total. And I know at the moment I'll wait him up to, he's currently, um, with Victor Syms,

(01:30:40):
and massage ladies and he's getting taken care of very well, but I don't know if that's actually true.
I can't remember. So I'm very worried about what's going to happen to total. I think, I mean,
I think, I think, I think, if I remember right, he's fine. Okay. That's fine. I'm okay with that.
The other sequence that I think we need to discuss is obviously when James gets the bus and a wonderful

(01:31:04):
sequence. So warm and again, hardly any, well, no dialogue, do you know? A little bit of dialogue
from the bus driver. But it gets in the bus, drives the end of the line and gets out and he's there
with all these new build houses. And the, it's a wonderful part where he's just roaming around,
playing in the scaffolding and doing what a boy would do and then goes into a house, gets in the bath

(01:31:29):
and has a piss and a toilet that's not flummed in and, and, and jumps through a window and into this
fucking field. And he's free. And that's the first time in the film he smiles. Yeah. And it's such a,
a wonderful and beautiful moment to see him happy. And you think this is, this is what his new life
could be like. Yeah. They move. And it's, it gives him that, that little moment of happiness.

(01:31:55):
That shot of, you know, the, the, the kind of wheat field framed in the window. And James, it's,
it's almost like a shot from a film. They can hold like sort of a John Steinbeck film based like a
Steinbeck book, like grapes of wrath or, or, or, or maybe they can wester like, um, the searchers or
something like that, you know, it's that is that, that must have been great to see on a cinema screen.

(01:32:21):
That shot, you know, of just him, yeah. Sort of losing himself in the, in the wheat field. And it's
all framed by the window with no glass in it. Yeah. Yeah. It's, um, yeah, it's really, it's really good.
They sort of come back to it at the end where that sort of ambiguous ending with a sort of family
walking across the wheat field to the new house, you know? Well, that's the thing because obviously

(01:32:44):
you have the, the lovely scene with him in the wheat field. And, you know, it's like he's
be able to be a kid again and always worries of going. Yeah. And then towards the end when things
are kind of going to shit, forum again, he, he goes back there gets on the bus. He goes back to where
he was and gets there and it's, it's bookmarks of well because this time it's pissing with rain

(01:33:06):
and all the doors are locked. Yeah. And he can't get in anywhere and it's almost like a, no, sorry,
pal, dreams over. Yeah. Yeah. That's your dream shattered. And it's a heartbreaking scene, but
so beautifully done. Yeah. In terms of just showing the juxtaposition of that. Yeah. The other thing
that I wanted to mention earlier when we're talking about the kids in the film. So they, the community

(01:33:30):
when they're, well, you know, when we can see the sort of back green, we're all the rubbish and
everything. It's always loads it. It's always kids. It's all, it's almost like the kids are the
majority. And we don't see that in the adults, apart from, apart from when the army come to start
the cleanup and the kids are all running about in, you know, annoying the soldiers and things. And

(01:33:53):
then the other scene is near the beginning when it's Ryan's funeral. And there's the, there's the
hairs, like the big old Mac hairs and the wee kids can jump up to the, look at the coffin and
sort of climbing on the car and it's almost like, you know, the kids rule the community. You know what,
I mean, there is, there's always loads of them out and about, like, out in the street. We do

(01:34:16):
end as a, when the big sister is going, we assume that she's going to catch the bus to go and see
her boyfriend and she drops the resistor up. She just says, now can I leave her here with the other
kids playing outside, says to the mum, can I just leave her here and make my mum, mum would be back soon?
Yeah. And I think that's probably what these communities were probably like, you know, I think

(01:34:38):
probably where my mum grew up and, um, Hamilton Hill and then the Milton in Glasgow, it was probably
quite similar. I mean, she didn't have, you know, they had indoor climbing and all that sort of
stuff. It wasn't like the sort of hardship that you see in rat catcher, but they feel they typical
Glasgow tenement life and not a lot of cars on the road because not many people could afford a car,

(01:34:59):
that lack time and stuff and just sort of kids outplayed. And I guess it's supposed to be the summer
holidays right because they don't go to school at all in the film. Yeah, I think so. That's what I'd
gathered. Well, but then does what's an old firm game? So, yeah, maybe that's the board. We've
had poetic license. Apparently there's a, there's a bit of a goof where football scores

(01:35:21):
red, though, was there the now being? And apparently that was from 1984, that, that result, not
lately, a little bit just later. Well, I think one of the biggest goofs is that the bin strike was in
1975, not 1973. That's probably one of the biggest things, because yeah, there was a 13-week
bin collider strike in Glasgow in '75 where it's true, bags of rubbish piled up everywhere and rats

(01:35:46):
were in the estates and then, yeah, it was the army that had to come in there coming up. And that's
one thing that again, I really like about the film. That's never hugely mentioned. It's, it's, you get
a couple of news reports of it. You see the rubbish piling up, but it's never like, you don't have
man, dog, well, dad does say at one point all this rubbish fucking state, but it's not like a huge

(01:36:09):
story like if that makes sense. It's kind of just always always going on in the background. Yeah,
it's just a flaming device, doesn't it? Really? Yeah, I think it's just, it's supposed to be sort of
part of the three-day week and all that. They had in the 70s when the country couldn't afford to have
the national bin switched on. So it, they, they, they, as mentioned, then, tweet through a party people,

(01:36:30):
you know, they, the day down getting buried and all this kind of thing, because everyone's on strike
and there's no money. So the end of the film, yeah. We have Kenny, effectively telling Ryan,
Ep James, that, so he saw him with Ryan and he says you killed Ryan and James is racked

(01:36:50):
with guilt and realizes that he's fucked basically. And then we see the scene of him jumping into the
canal. Mm-hmm. Then it's cut with a scene of the family walking through the wheat field, as you
say, with all their furniture moving into their new house. But then the final shot is James in the canal.
Yeah. Now, open to interpretation, you could say. The ending, I think it's pretty case closed,

(01:37:17):
but how do you interpret the ending of this film? I think, I saw, you know, I think, probably,
I mean, Wikipedia in the plot outline says that we cut back to James Droneing in the canal as the
trailer's rule. So, you know, and when I watched it, I kind of, I kind of thought, well, I get, I
guess I'm left to have the ending that I choose, you know, it's almost like, well, here's two endings,

(01:37:42):
here's the happy ending where the fam, where things work out for the family and for James in particular,
or here's the sad ending where James effectively commit suicide, you know? So, you know, I, I don't know,
I mean, I don't, I don't know if that sequence of the moving into new houses is sort of James'
fantasy as he's drowning in the canal, or if then Ramsay is saying, you know, choose which one,

(01:38:08):
whichever one you want. If it's the latter, then I would definitely choose the happy ending,
because the film's such a challenging film that you, you can, well, personally, I can
and needy that resolution makes sort of positive resolution. But, you know, I don't know. Okay, fair enough.

(01:38:29):
Yeah, I choose to believe he dies. No, I think it's too, you can't take the guilt of what he's done,
you see him jump in the canal, then the scene and of them kind of moving into the new houses is very
much his kind of last thought in terms of a fantasy of what could be. It's kind of the, the escape,

(01:38:51):
the better life, but he's chosen a different escape. Yeah. And I think that the fact that the very last
shot is him in the canal leads me to believe that he has done it. And who knows, maybe, maybe that
comes and saves him or someone saves him. Yeah. Maybe the Margaret Anne's glasses somehow catch on a

(01:39:13):
read and pull him up, but I don't know. Can he catches some of these net and he pulls me. Yeah, yeah,
could be, but yeah, I think I believe that he does pass in the end. And I think, yeah, the ending
can be taken both realistically or symbolically, I think, but, you know, the scene revolves around
James's guilt, whatever way you choose to take it, I think. The scene in the field of wheat that

(01:39:39):
you kind of see James when he's running in it, he's rubbing his hands through the wheat. Do you think
Tommy Flanagan told Ridley Scott about that and he stole it for Gladier? Well, it's the very, it's
remember the same time as Gladier and I think this was not it. Gladier is a year after. So, yeah,
I thought it came out, I don't know, I thought that. Yeah, I suppose you're right, it's between a thousand
months ago, you know. Yeah. I know he didn't, but I just wondered it. It just seemed funny that, you know,

(01:40:03):
those two films back to back to the time I Flanagan and this scene's about a wheat field. And that's
what it like, well, there was famous shots of Gladier, of course, but yeah, I just wondered if that was it,
but kind of obviously tongue in cheek thing. Obviously, then Man's even on to direct more really
cheery films like we need to talk about Kevin, Foxake, you're never really here. The one that I've been

(01:40:29):
trying to get for the podcast is more of in color with Jamie Bell and I don't know, that's not, no,
I'll get mixed, that's not, that's not the one with Jamie Bell. There's one set in Edinburgh,
it's not even, then Man's see, I'm talking absolute shite. There's a movie with Jamie Bell in it where

(01:40:51):
he's working at the Bell model and he's spying on, he's spying on eave males and they have a relationship
and she's older than him. So, Billy McElliot. No, I kind of never, it's called, I may have to satisfy my
eh. More of in color for ages it was on STV player, but I don't know if it's still on there because I've
thought about it a couple of times, but I wanted to reread the book first before I, um,

(01:41:15):
I've never read the book, I don't think so, maybe I'll do that before I, uh, before, uh,
we do it on the podcast, I'm sure it'll come up eventually, we've got a hold of it. But yeah,
we need to talk about Kevin's, uh, a rough them. How much? Have them full. That's the one. Oh yeah.
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Sorry. I'm aware of that title. Yeah, sorry. You were saying.

(01:41:36):
Yeah, we need to talk about Kevin obviously, he's a very tough watch and yeah, we've never really
hear, I watched it once. I, I wasn't really a fan of it, I don't think, and again, it's a tough watch.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, she obviously, she likes challenging subject matters and things,

(01:41:57):
you know, fair play to, um, she started stuck to, she said she started stuck to what, to, I don't
say stuck to her guns, but she's, you know, she's, she's not done with some people who have made
a big name, an independent cinema, have done it to go on to make like a Marvel film or
something like that, you know, or some, you know, like, uh, what's her name, who
directed Wonder Woman, um, and the set in 1984 and the girl that directed, uh,

(01:42:22):
a Ternels, I think she had done, uh, the, the billboards outside Evan and Zuri in Meshford up with
the Ternels and that, that, that Mizzouli film is fucking brilliant Francis McDormand and, uh, no,
that's, um, that's Martin McDonough, who, oh yeah, yeah, in Bruce and seven psychopaths. Yeah,
it's not that one. It's the nomad one with Francis McDonough. Oh yeah, nomads. Yeah, that's, oh,

(01:42:45):
that's a great film as well. Yeah, maybe the good film. Yeah. And then she followed up with the
Ternels, which is, uh, not so good. Yeah, you know, you're right. Um, there is, uh, there has a
spate of that over the last like 10 years or so of a director doing something and then getting
like a big budget. Yeah. Marvel film usually or DC. But yeah, you're right. Ramsay has stuck to
her guns and yeah, we'd love to see her take on something maybe a bit more mainstream, but, you

(01:43:09):
know, but I think she's, she's got her, her focus and she's stuck to it and I think that's very,
very commendable. I don't, I don't think I'd like to see her take on something more mainstream. I
think she's, you know, I mean, like, I mean, like I said at the start of this, I mean, this film is,
you know, I mean, it's considering how, how challenging it is and some really difficult scenes and

(01:43:32):
really, definitely, and really, really difficult themes. Like I said before, I mean, it's, it's, it's,
it's an astonishing achievement. You know what I mean? Oh, huge. And it's, and it's an absolutely
brilliant film, but it's definitely not one that I would be sticking on one night and then nothing
else to watch, you know, probably a long time before I come back to it because I'll probably be

(01:43:54):
thinking about it a lot for the next couple of weeks until we, uh, do our next episode.
You know, for our father's sleep at night, I'll be thinking about Snowball and, uh,
Margaret Anne. It's okay. Snowballs living on the moon. It's fine. It's all okay. So is it time then to put,

(01:44:15):
I mean, the thing is the Christmas, the awards are usually quite like hard. Maybe that's what we need,
maybe that's what we need to end the pod. It's time to put, uh, rat catcher through the smile they
award. Let's do it. I've tried to keep my picks quite lighthearted. So yes, let's do it. Yeah, I
need to, um, so the first award would usually be the Bobby the Barman award for the best pub, but
the little pub scenes in rat catcher because it's up because it's all seen from the child's perspective.

(01:44:39):
Yeah, you see Dad coming out the pub, but you know, actually seeing the pub, so yeah. Next
then is the James Cosmo award for being an everything Scottish. Who did you go for for this?
I picked Flanagan, but I thought, well, Mandy Matthews, uh, that you mentioned earlier on,
and the, there was a time when she was in quite a lot of things that seemed to have felt like a time,

(01:45:00):
but she always says she's not, I think, I think if you look at her, she seems to have maybe
retired from acting because she's not done anything since the end of 2000s, I think, so they can
have to do a jojo or, oh, so I, uh, Tensseltown was one of her last last ones that she did, I think, so.
Um, I went with Molly Innis who plays the woman from the council. Um, I know she hasn't

(01:45:22):
had a big part, but she is in taking over the asylum, Rapsine Esba, Stellar does tricks, uh,
Taggart, she's in Rebus, uh, River City and, uh, the Nest, which was a Martin Compton, um, show from
about five years ago. Um, so she seemed to have kind of the most, Scottish, you could pick Steven

(01:45:42):
Perdin as well, I suppose, Shellsuit Bob. Um, but, uh, yeah, I went with Molly Innis for my pick.
Okay, um, next award then, the Jake McQuilland teaser award, for this one, I, I kind of,
although we don't really see it, um, I went with Taggart and Slashed, but there's also a wee mention
for Ryan getting a clip from the year at the start of the film as well. And that's what I picked,

(01:46:04):
this Ryan getting a clip round it year for his mart start. Um, so the, the next award, I kind of
struggled with is just, it's a big, big award, um, for the Scottish swearing. There's a lot of
f-bombs in this. Yeah. There's even a sea bomb from one of the big boys at one point. I couldn't
really pin, because it's so part of just the dialogue of the film. I think it's easier to sort of identify

(01:46:28):
something for less when it, there's an outburst, but it's not really any outbursts with any bad
language in it, really. No, there's not. It's, it's very natural the way it's kind of permeated
through the film. So I went with the one that made me laugh the most is what I, it's what I usually do
for this Wearing Award and it goes to Ryan's, Ryan, um, James the sister, um, when she says, "Tom

(01:46:51):
Jones is shite, your shite, you're a big shite." Yeah. So I think it's James that says Tom Jones is
shite, and then she applies with, yeah, your shite, you're a big shite. Yeah, um, yeah. Because as that's
seen on her watching Tom Jones on a TV doing what's new, because he's got, in their, yeah, talking in
the background, we shut up and watch him this. You know, she loves Tom Jones. Um, next award then is the

(01:47:17):
Ume Gregor award for good Swedish nudity. There's only really one scene. Yes, the baths. Yeah,
obviously. I think we've spoken about that. Yeah. So yeah. Next, uh, next is another work we get,
I'd get a couple of things for less, but it's the archetypal Scottish moment, but the film feels so
intrinsically Scottish that it was sort of hard. I've gone for, there's your Wagey's hen, because it

(01:47:40):
feels like a really glad vision thing, and also the tenets cans with the, with the assies and the
tins. I, um, I kind of feel like I always pick Lugger Lovely whenever they're on. So, but my first
one was it was more of the whole scene, taking a swig from a can of nectar for that Lugger,
lovely one. Yeah. As a 12 year old boy. Yeah. Um, but my favorite one, and I lead it to this one

(01:48:03):
when we were doing the news, I'd say it's one of my favorite Scottish phrases,
appears in this film, and it's when Ma is speaking to Ryan's mum, and she shouts, "Get my messages."
Yeah. Yeah. Love the word messages for grocery shopping. Yeah. Fucking love it. Get my messages.
They're lying in the middle of the road. Let's move to the room. James! James! Get my messages!

(01:48:33):
Leaving them lying in the middle of the street? Hurry up! Um, then the last award then is the
Sean Conway award, who wins, Ratcatcher for you. Well, Sling Ramsey, isn't it? Yeah. It's
then Ramsey. I've got them Ramsey written down. I mean, I think Bandy Matthews is really good, but I also
think that, um, Cray Medi, who plays James, considering the fact that he's the lead actor. Again,

(01:48:56):
he doesn't seem, like a lot of the kids, they, a lot of the young actors that are in this, they both
seem to have done much more after Ratcatcher, but you know, he's, like, for a, okay, a young, young actor,
child actor, really, carry in a film, like a really heavy film, with like, just mentioned, very, very,
serious themes and everything. I think he's, I think he's really, really good. Oh, he's brilliant. So

(01:49:20):
great performance and absolutely fantastic performance, but yeah, um, I had to give it to Lynn Ramsey.
Yeah. Of course, sure. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, well, if you want to watch Ratcatcher, it's, uh,
sign YouTube. Oh, so by all means. Yeah, good. You know, uh, although, you know, maybe you should watch
it before you listen to this. Yeah, and, uh, yeah, we have warned you about certain scenes. Yeah.

(01:49:42):
You're going to watch it. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, that was the wonderful Ratcatcher. And that was my
choice, Greg, to bring us back down to Earth after a couple of episodes of hilarity. Um, but means,
it spins back round to your choice. So what have you picked for the next episode of the
culture, Swally? So I've, so you're, you picked this film as you just mentioned in response to

(01:50:06):
the fact that we've had money, uh, in the last couple of episodes, we've had obviously still game
in the last episodes that you wanted just a little bit of crushing reality. Um, I've, I've,
I think I'm kind of walking the beam between, uh, serious drama and gala's Glasgow banter. So in

(01:50:26):
the five years that we've been doing a podcast, we have done a couple of episodes of this program.
And there's one episode in particular that when you gave me my birthday present last year,
which was, I love the, I love the cameo message from an unofficial podcast patron saint James Cosmo,
he mentioned it because it happens to be one of my favorite episodes of this drama. So I've taken

(01:50:48):
us back to 1988 where we joined James Cosmo in Mac Estell in series four episodes, serial one of
brilliant Glasgow detective program, Taggart and dead giveaway. I've been waiting for you.
Quite some time and it's funny Greg. I, I almost had a feeling when, earlier in this episode,

(01:51:12):
when you were speaking about Taggart, I was going to say we need to pick a Taggart again. And I was,
I thought, you know what? I won't mention it. Maybe I'll pick one in the next coming weeks, but I am
so glad you've picked that. Um, oh great. Oh, we'll get Cosmo, we'll get Castello. Oh,
make one more madness, make fair madness. Yeah. I know that some other well-keid faces that,

(01:51:35):
uh, I forgot and show up in this one. Oh, yeah, there'll definitely be at least two or three that
were forgotten about that all pop up. Fantastic. Um, that's, yeah, that'll be available on STV
player on the, daily motion. Uh, it's definitely on STV player. I've not checked daily motion, but I
checked it was on STV player, and I also checked that I could watch it before, before I walked it in.

(01:52:00):
So if you want, if you want to watch it before you hear us talking about it on the next episode,
you can definitely get it on the STV player. If you're not in the UK and you've got a VPN, you can
definitely get it on the STV player, but we'll find out it was on daily motion as well. Just to
love to watch Susan Coleman. Uh, I didn't watch enough of it to get to an advert, so I don't know.
Okay. Okay. Surely not. Just wondered. That's been, yeah. That's been years.

(01:52:22):
You never know. You never know. Now we can discuss that on the next episode of the Swally.
Right. There we go. Wonderful. Taggart coming on the next episode. All right. Thank you very,
much listening. Everyone. Hope you enjoyed the show and it wasn't too bleak for you.
Um, if you would like to give us a little rating, review, subscribe on iTunes, Spotify,
wherever you get your podcast, please feel free to do so. And if you'd like to get in touch with

(01:52:45):
us, you can you can email us cultureswally@gmail.com with anything you'd like us to review any new stories
you've seen or if you just want to get in touch and say hello, you can find us on Insta at Culture Swally
Pod, or we're also on X, formerly known as Twitter at Swally Pod. And we have a wonderful website as
well, don't we Greg? We do. You can find us at cultureswally.com with links to other episodes and some

(01:53:08):
blog posts and features about Scottish media. Come and give us some traffic. Fantastic. Well, I hope
you enjoy the rest of your day off Greg and have fun at the cinema with your door. Yep. And get some,
some lovely popcorn. Do you have popcorn when you go to the cinema? The popcorn that I like the best
is probably the worst one for you in that's butterkest. David Houghey, sticky butterkest. Like, I

(01:53:32):
love that one. But you can only have a wee bit of it. And obviously, they sort of trend at the
cinema now is to give you a fucking dustbin-sized thing at popcorn. So, no, I don't. What my cinema
snack, and I was watching Mission Impossible, what did the whole fucking family bag is Maltesers?
Okay. Yeah. Smash the whole family bag of Maltesers during the fucking three hour Mission Impossible

(01:53:55):
film. And, you know, that felt better. Did you share any with the boys club? No, I was sitting
in my own, like, I'd purposefully, I'd purposefully booked this sit by myself, because I didn't know
them all well enough. I was like, "Oh, that was the last seat of that." Because we booked the fancy,
reclining blanket, feet or seats. So, I like to sit at the back, I like to sit on the aisle. So,

(01:54:15):
I waited until they had all booked their seats, and they said, "Oh, we're sitting here sitting
here nice, and I'm a bit minding, I said, "Doc, I couldn't get a seat near you guys, but I'm just a few
of those behind." Wonderful insight, they agreed. I know. What insight into a fucking curmudgeon?
You sit in separate way from your daughter? No, no, I don't mind sitting next to my daughter.
But, you know, that's fine. Because, I don't know, I might share some altizers or some other, but,

(01:54:41):
yeah, I can go to the cinema with a couple of the grown men. Come on, yeah, break.
Right, I'll leave it there. Enjoy your altizers. Right? Okay, till next time.
Till next time.
Hey Tom Johnson! Tom Johnson!
Oh, you lot, I mean, we're good to tune if it can happen about you.
Hey Tom Johnson! Stop screaming in my ear.

(01:55:02):
Oh, I'm sorry! I'm just shaking my ear.
I'm just shaking my ear, I think, shake.
Hey, you too. That's enough, you don't mind me jumping away to hear that.
I'm sorry, that's fine.
[music]

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Episode 130 - Ratcatcher (1999)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 130 - Ratcatcher (1999)