Building Real Empires and Imaginary Worlds with Nick Leja | Season 2 EP 3 | TDES - The Dillon England Show

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We just bought the brand a year ago was a Discreplay.
The founder was my first business ment, so it was crazy,
like sixteen years ago. He taught me everything that I
know and then he chose me to kind of continue
his oleviacy, which was wow. It was a surreal moment
for sure. Like why fantasy write? What do you enjoy
so much about that genre? I read science fiction, thrillers,
fantasy and whatnot, But I think when it comes to fantasy,
there's just so much creation with that right, you create worlds.

(00:22):
Especially when writing it, my imagination can just go wherever
it wants to go, and I think I just like
that freedom and just being able to completely just take
the reader into a foreign place for a couple hours
and letting them get lost in that experience, you know
what I mean?

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, how is Discreplay still alive? So we're a very
adaptable company. So we have just been continuously evolving over
the past I mean really thirty years.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
Let's talk about this new book. Yeah, so this one
is my newest book.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
It's the space between us and the concept here is
navigating difficult conversations.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
So you but you didn't go to school for entrepreneurship
or business. Went to school for engineering, yes, so why entrepreneurship?

Speaker 3 (01:01):
So I grab this.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
I don't normally do this, but you have so many
things going on that I had to write them down.
So I'm gonna write. I'm gonna say these plays closet
with them right, yep? Okay, disc replay European wax center,
my salon's sweet, and then superior fence and rail yep?
Did it miss anything? And then your in your book

(01:24):
writing the books and it's Leisia, Lejia, Ledja and Ledja stories.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Yep. Where did Like?

Speaker 2 (01:32):
First of all, it's funny because it goes okay, I
can see play his closet, I can see wax center,
I can see slot.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
In fence and rail. Right, Where did that come from?

Speaker 2 (01:40):
So?

Speaker 1 (01:40):
I read a lot of from Warren Buffett, So a
lot of my investing philosophy comes from him. I read
all of our shareholder letters and things like that, and
here focuses his investing on kind of what he calls
like simple boring businesses, that's like off the radar, not
cutting edge. So like right now, like I don't want
to do anything involving in cryptocurrency or like bitcoin in
any of that kind of stuff. AI, It's just it's

(02:02):
too vold. There's definitely a lot of money be made there,
but it's just a lot of a lot of smart
people competing there, right, So I'm looking for businesses that
are just.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
Simple, easy to understand, not really changing a whole lot.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
And I've been in brick and mortar retail for a
long time. I did want to branch out of that
because I didn't just want to be a brick and
mortar entrepreneur. So superior fence in rail a wooden fence
thirty years ago, it was pretty similar to a wooden
fence today, and probably pretty similar would in fence thirty
years in the future. Fences aren't really changing as far
as you know. It's not like one thing's hot this
year and gone the next. I mean, it's defense, you know,

(02:33):
it's you know, it's boring, but I love it. There's
not a you know, a lot of competition in the market,
and it's really cool because I've learned so much.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
Let me tell you, driving go ahead. I was gonna say,
when did you get involved with that business?

Speaker 1 (02:45):
That was about three years ago. It's just my newest one, Okay,
and we'll.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Brought that on like just randomly, like I want to diversify,
Like why fences?

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Uh, it just be cause it kind of fit the criteria.
So really, like what's what started it? As, Okay, we've
got a collection of businesses, I like to get into
another business just to diversify a little bit. And I
genuinely just love learning about just the world and how
it works. And as you get into a business, you
learn a lot about how things work behind the scenes.
So that kind of prompted the search, and then we
land on spear, Fence and Rail. And I'm a serial

(03:13):
franchise guy, so I look for franchises to invest in.
The franchise or the founder was a really really great
guy actually cares about his franchises and their success, which
is actually hard to find these days. And the business
models made sense. Territories available and just kind of checked
all the boxes. Is Plato's Closet franchise?

Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yes? Really?

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, I had no idea. I always assumed they record
are most stores like that franchise. I feel like I
just assumed they would be a corporate store. That kind
of shocks me more than you think.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Our franchise definitely not all locations, but more businesses than
you think if there's a bunch of them, like McDonald's
is a franchise Taco Ball, like none of that's well,
I don't want to say none of as corporately owned.
I'm sure maybe some, but the vast vast majority are
all franchise owned.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
I mean, like I worked with Stak and Shape growing up,
and ours was a corporate location, but most were franchised. Yea,
and so is thistting how they have that hybrid model
where it's do you think they do that to like
have some test stores so corporate can at least remain
have their pulse on what's actually happening instead of giving
it all the franchisees. Or I wonder why there's like
that hybrid model of some stors or franchise some sorts

(04:13):
of corporate.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
Most franchise ors.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Would probably want to go one way or another, either
they're all corporate or they're all franchised locations, right, because
if you're owning a unit, that's like one business model,
but being a franchise is a completely different business model.
So like disc Replay last year, I bought the brand Discreplay.
Some a franchise or and a franchise, so I kind
of have experience on both sides, and being a franchise

(04:38):
or is like just a completely different type of business
than actually owning a discreplay store. It's just like it's
not even comparable.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Well, welcome.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
I have a lot of entrepreneurs that listen to show,
because you asked me earlier, so that that's my answer.
There was a lot of entreprens listening to the show.
What's what would be the difference that you found so
far between being a franchise ing and a franchise or.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Well, I'm very new to the franchise or we just
bought the brand a year or ago, and there's a
lot of things to fact.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, it came full circles because the founder was my
first business mentor my very first business was a disc
replay so.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
It was crazy, like sixteen years ago.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
He taught me everything that I know and then he
retired a year ago and he chose me to kind
of continue his legacy, which was well, it was a
surreal moment for sure.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
Good for you, Dud's awesome. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, So as a franchise or though it's all about
helping the franchisees be successful. And we haven't actually started
taking on franchisees because we've been laser focused on really
making sure our business plan is airtight for them. Our
software is ROCKSATWA have proprietary software, a website, we're getting
that redone now, branding, so when we bring franchises on,
they can just be rocking and rolling. But like with
owning a discreplay store, the focus is how to serve

(05:43):
the customers and how to staff a store and serve
that community as a franchise or a good franchise or
in my opinion, it's how do I help these franchisees
achieve their financial goals by being being a business owner,
which is very different from selling video games too.

Speaker 3 (05:57):
Right, the actual exactly. So it's a lot more business.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
What kind of systems and processes do we put in
place stuff our franchises be successful to make sure that
they can live their dreams by by joining us.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
Wow, And so discreep play is where this all started
for you? Yeah, my first business?

Speaker 2 (06:13):
When was that in your life? When did you start
your own first business? So?

Speaker 3 (06:17):
How old were you? So I graduated from Kettering University.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Up in Flint with anlegriical engineering degree in the fall
of two thousand and eight, and then I opened discreeplay
in July of two thousand and nine. Wow, and I
was I just turned twenty two.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
So you but you didn't go to school for entrepreneurship
or business. You went to school for engineering. Yes, So
why entrepreneurship? Where did that come from?

Speaker 3 (06:38):
Great question?

Speaker 1 (06:39):
So my big passion has always been writing. I was
an avid reader around as a kid. I wrote a
couple of fantasy books in high school and college, and
my ultimate dream was slash is to be a writer.
But the I'm a numbers guy and statistics guy, and
the number of authors who are able to, like you know,
pay pay the bills by being a creative fictional author
is very, very small. So I read Rich Dad Pordad

(07:01):
when I was a kid, and my dad gave me
that book, and I became obsessed with the idea of
basically creating a handful of businesses to create some passive
revenue that would then solve the financial burden. So then
I could just be an author and have the pressure
of paying bills with the writing, which would allow me
to be a lot more in tune with my creative side.
So writing has always been the end game, and being
an engineer, that was just something I knew, like, wasn't

(07:22):
probably going to get me that way.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
Or get me to that place? Gotcha?

Speaker 2 (07:26):
And so discreenplay was the first opportunity that came across
ye your lab. And then so from the beginning though
the beat with Robert kar Kawasaki does his.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Name was Robert Kiyosaki Yasaki? I think anyways, I'm pretty sure, yeah,
we'll go with Kiyosaki. But you were right, But you
were planning to expand. This is always the goal is
did try to expand? What was the next business after discreplay?

Speaker 3 (07:46):
Playoffs closet? Okay, how did that come about?

Speaker 1 (07:49):
I really liked the resale aspect of discreplay because we
buy and sell stuff, so it's kind of recession resistant,
right and at hard time. So we opened Discreenplay in
the summer of two and I was going to ask
you about that. During that session, a lot of businesses
were start and we were doing great because people needed
a way to get money to pay their bills so
they could sell to disc replay, and then people also
need to entertainment at at a lower price and buying
a new so like we kind of says by both

(08:09):
ends of that.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
So I love the resale industry.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
It was also kind of a little bit more Amazon resistant,
just it's harder to buy and sell use things on Amazon,
you know, versus like just being able to bring a
bin full of games.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
To a store and drop it off and get cash
that day. I got deal shipping.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
So I really love the resale aspect, but I do
want to diversify because we're slinging dis right, this is
like fifteen years ago, and people like, dude, you're crazy,
but you know, Blockbush is going out of business and
stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
So I wanted to do something in resale, but not
with this.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
And so then I came across clothing with Platal's closet
and they were the number one brand and that that sector.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
So yeah, how is disc replay still alive? Like honestly,
like it survived and that's amazing and that's a testament
to the company. Yeah, but yeah, like, how have you
guys figured out a way to stay relevant in an
age that this kind of stuff really isn't popular anymore.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah, it's.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
It's crazy. I mean a lot of it is just
the people we have. So we're a very adaptable company.
We're not like this is the way and follow don't
ask questions. We've always encouraged all the franchise elocations, Like
some franchises are very strict, like here's the playbook, and
do the playbook and don't debate from the playbook.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
And this is that.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
Being curious and adaptive is one of our core vales
as a company, and we encourage people to shake things
up and try something different and make mistakes and do that.
So we have just been continuously evolving over the past
I mean really thirty years. It used to just be
a CD store.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
Back in the day.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
Then like when Napstrack came out that people were telling
the original founder we went out of business. And then
we got into two movies, right instead of just the
music CDs, and then like well Netflix is coming out
out of business. Then we got into video games, and
then we got into electronics, and now we're buying some
like trading cards and pop vinyls and collectibles and there's
always stuff to buy and sell.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah, so it's more of a you're just evolving the
business models there, which is you know what to buy,
you know how to sell, you know how to price
that margin, and now you're just kind of like following
the trends that makes it.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah it's genius. Yeah it makes sense.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
And then you've already put the brand discreen Play, So
then there's a brand that people recognize and they come into
the store that oh, I didn't know you sold this, and.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
Yeah it is and there you go. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
And one of our kind of three uniques is we
have a mega selection. Every visits a treasure hunt. So
like when you come to Discreenplay, it's not just a
place to transact and buy and sell things. It's an experience, right,
you can come in there with with your I mean
there's stuff for all age groups. So kids have like
Disney games or pop pintals, they can buy collectibles, action figures,
things like that. So really kind of double down in
that experience in that treasure hunt aspect.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
Does that helped us a lot?

Speaker 2 (10:31):
So discreen Play, Plato's closet, What was next European wax Center. Okay,
so this one of my business partners out of Chicago's
name is Chad.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
We're really close friends. We've been in business for a
long time together. He actually was involved in the European
Wax Center when I met him, so I just got involved.

Speaker 3 (10:47):
He was already in that one. It was working.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
My role in that one is more passive. I was
kind of overseeing the operations with the discreenplays and the
Plato's he did the European Wax Center.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
We talked about high.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
Level strategy on like what markets to open, stuff like that,
but he was really the one who oversee the operation.
So that's probably the one I'm the least involved in.
But it was a it is a brand that I'm
still involved in.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
And then I'm assuming it went my salon Sight next
and then for fince Rail And the whole time you've
been writing though, right have you been Have you been
able to stay consistent writing as because I own only
two businesses, well three few concient of the podcast business.
I don't know if as a real business only three businesses,
only three business.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
Yeah, well it's a good start for us.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
And I feel like I can barely even keep my
head above water, and.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
You have six and you're writing a book.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
So how have you been able to manage your time,
managing these different things and keeping your dream alive, which
your dream alive is writing.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, yeah, so I answer your first question, No, I
have not been writing the entire time. I definitely got
obsessed with the game, a little bit of businesses and
just like creating more. I mean there's a loop, right,
I mean you've read about this, I'm sure a lot,
whereas people you set a financial goal, you hit it,
then the next goal and the next goal, and you're
just like spinning the wheel until you pass away, and
that's like that's a it's.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
Your hamster wheel.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yes, so I definitely got caught in that, and unfortunately
I didn't write for probably the first ten ten years
or so of it, and I kind of got a
little too obsessed and too caught in the game. I
had a major business setback, well what I call major
business setback like five years ago, and that was a
major paradigm shift. So I kind of had like a yeah,
it was a it was a major paradigm shift. And
then I remembered my why that I I had lost

(12:19):
through the game, and then I decided, Okay, like I've
from a financial perspective, I don't need to do anything
else I can and I still do enjoy the game.
I'm still playing the game, but I'm not obsessed by it.
But I definitely got blinded by the game. I lost
track of my why so I found that about five
years ago, and so about four years ago was when
I actually started get actively writing again.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
So tell me about your tell me about you books.
He was some books here. I want to know about
what you're writing. You can talk about what we what
you started writing again? But you said you were before.

Speaker 3 (12:46):
We go there.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
I went pause before because I'm curious about this. It
looks beautiful. So I look at this beautiful, beautiful artwork.
I was a big fantasy reader growing up. Okay, so
this is this is exciting for me. Awesome, it's dust.
It's been years since I've read a fantasy book. I
mean probably since high school. But I was probably one
of the only people that I know that invited their

(13:07):
librarians to his wedding.

Speaker 3 (13:08):
Wow, that's how much I was at the library. Wow.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
They came okay and mad. Respect Yeah, so big. Because
I grew up in a small town in macom Ohio,
I rode my bike. Literally the only thing we had
was a cookie factory. But you couldn't even buy cookies there.
It was just a cookie factory. You could smell the
cookies and that was it. And we had the library
that was our town. And so every day during the
summer just rode my bike to the library, got a new

(13:31):
book reading. And you know, I don't know if you
I mean obviously like the Aragon series, I don't know
if you read those. I saw the move and actually
read Christopher, but he was like eighteen, Yeah when he
started those great books. I really recommend they ever readed
like Artemis foul or any of those books. That's kind
of the fantasy I was in. It's always like weird
fun fairies, other languages, dragons like that was.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
The fantasy I love. Yeah, I didn't made that one specifically.
I read Lord of the Rings. I read all the
Goosebumps books when I was in the middle school course.
I read every single one of those.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
And man, it's been so long.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
I think I read like the Wheels, a couple of
Wheels of Time books. I read the Red Roll books.
I don't know if you read those.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yes with the mouse, yeah, Brian j Brian Josh, oh, yeah,
I have. We just turned on one of our family
in our church to those books.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
I love. I was such a Red Wall fan.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Well, my second book, not to jump it is Joina,
and yeah, it's heavily inspired by the Red Wall Bucks
character is a mouse really so.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
And there's one of the things.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
That I love that did in the books was ever
he was describing the feast that they had, like it
sounded amazing.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
It was literally like Charles Dickens for children. It was
incredibly good.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
I used to be arguing with people on like back
when they like wiki forums, on like which order of
the books you should read them, because you had the
order on the backs and started with Red Wall and
then it was like Mark Martin The Warrior or something
like that, and I was like, no, it needs to
start with like Legend of Luke you to walk through
your croj Dude.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
I loved those books were so good.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
Who knew? I didn't know there were that many Red
Wall books. Reader is this is incredible?

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah, yeah, we love red Wall and so I'm excited
to hear about that book and is bration behind that?
So I was a big fancy reader. What about fantasy
to you? Like do you enjoy the genre so much?

Speaker 3 (15:12):
Why?

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Like why fantasy writing? Like what make do you enjoy that?
And that's still kind of what you write today, right,
So what do you enjoy so much about that genre?

Speaker 3 (15:20):
It's a good question. I think I read science fiction, thrillers,
fantasy and whatnot.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
But I think when it comes to fantasy, there's just
so much creation with that, right, You create worlds with
and it's so different from reality, Whereas if you're a thriller. Again,
I love a good thriller and everything like that, but
it's still grounded in reality, which has pros and cons
or whatever. Well, fantasy, I can just especially when writing it,
my imagination can just go wherever it wants to go,

(15:49):
And I think I just like that freedom and just
being able to completely just take the reader into a
foreign place for a couple hours and letting them get
lost in that experience, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
Yeah, so this is already get fun.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
This is this is going to be exciting for me
because when you were on I was like, well, we
can talk about business, But now I'm like hooked on
this because this is incredible. I've always wanted to know
how a fantasy writer can create a world and then
not only create the world, but keep track of the
world and the rules of the world, and the languages

(16:23):
of the world, and the relationships and the names, and
to me, I just start thinking about.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
It, I'm like, man, I can't I'm lost even starting.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
So how did you develop this skill to be able
to because it is a skill to be able to
take a world and just have a reader track what
you're creating. So how did you develop this ability to
do that?

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Well, probably the first thing was the writing process that
I had to get down. And Stephen King published a
book called On Writing, and I read that book as
a phenomenal book. So if anyone's out there looking to
become a writer, the book's amazing. The first half of
it is like an autobiography of his life. In the
second half of it is specific writing advice and slash
tips and tricks. So when he writes, he writes two

(17:06):
thousand words a day, every single day, seven days a week,
even through holidays, whatever, when he's actively writing. And he
said that no matter how hard it is, no matter
if he wakes up and he has no idea he's
in writer block, he will force himself through, even if
it's two thousand words of absolute garbage that he thinks
is going to delete. It's always two thousand words every
single day because when you when you write that much,
you keep the momentum going to get past the writer's block,

(17:28):
and even if you have to go back in and
edit it and revise that, it keeps you going. Whereas
if you get stuck in a scene and then you
don't write for one day, then seven days, then two weeks,
and then it starts to get to the point where like, okay,
how am I going to get back.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
And what was they even doing? And what were all
the characters doing? Right? The whole vision's hazy at that point, right.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
So to answer your question, to circle back to your
question of how do I keep track of stuff? A
big part of it is you don't lose momentum because
when you're writing every day and you're making that progress,
whatever the characters were doing yesterday or the day before, like,
you're moving at such a velocity that it's top of mind.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
Just moving with exactly right as they go.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Whereas if you don't write for like three months and
then you go back to it, that's when it's tough
to remember what was everyone doing or how is everybody feeling,
or all that kind of stuff that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
Do you like storyboard or is there like other ways
or do you just normally just write and then it
just slowly works its way out.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
So I do a rough outline. So all of my books,
they are heavily fantasy, but they're short stories that teach
soft skills. So teaching the soft skills is a primary thing.
So I kind of have an idea of like what
I want to share, what type of like skill sets
I want to kind of like teach throughout the books.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
I give us an example of that real quick, just
so people know what you mean by soft skill.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Oh yeah, So, like the first one is about how
to listen to others and it's sure they feel understood.
The second one is about how to manage teams. The
third one is about how to deal with uncertainty and
randomness in life and how to avoid become becoming fragile.
So those are examples of soft skills. So first I
make a list of all the things that I want
to I want the book to go over, and then
I do, and then I make a list of characters,

(18:52):
and then I go through and I just do a
very rough outline of like what's going to happen, not
necessarily chapter by chapter, but I've got these characters. I've
got these skills, and a big part of it comes
from listening to music. So when I'm driving around and
music listening to music, and I listen to like cinematic
music and instrumentals and video game music, and usually what
will happen is there will be like one to four

(19:13):
very key important plot scenes that as I'm listening to music,
just come and I hear the music, and I just
I see it. I've identified the characters so I know
who's playing in it, and then just listen to the
music and just let the music kind of take me
wherever it's going.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
To take me.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
And then I will get laser focused and like super
zoomed in on specific key pivotal scenes of the story,
and then I build the story around those scenes. So
if there's like going to be the scene here halfway
through the book that's going to have a major emotional impact,
then I kind of work backwards and figure out what,
how do I lead up to that? How did we
get here?

Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yes? Exactly, that's that's interesting.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
And then at this point you've already had those characters
created though, right, Yeah, what goes into character creation, like
how is it based on people?

Speaker 3 (19:58):
You know? Sometimes?

Speaker 2 (19:59):
Is it like, man, I met this dude, he was
a jerk, I'm going to definitely write his you know,
write a character or is it just kind of like
I need a character that fits this bio.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
So usually I start with the so, like I said,
I have an idea about what I want to go
over in general, and they usually get that really pivotal
scene or two in my mind, and then I kind
of build the main character from That's like my second book,
Journey Dannya, the main character is of Mouse, and that's
about managing teams. So it's about him gathering a crew
of people to like the metaphors if if you get

(20:30):
a bunch of team members in your company who are
all rowing in the same direction, that's how you get
to the destination. So he literally is the captain of
a ship that is hiring uh well critters to like
physically row the boat forwards. Like I really can't pus
a metaphor. So then answer your question about how do
I come with the characters. The characters are basically kind
of personas that through my managing companies, I've I've come across, right,

(20:53):
and like, how do you There's there's the go geter, right,
there's the person has a bunch of ideas in the company,
he's always sharing ideas. And then there're sometimes the people
who are just complaining and not doing anything, and there's
like a kind of and I don't want to stereotype people,
but like if you're trying to simplify, like, hey, out
of the hundreds of employees you have a lot of
them do kind of gravitate towards certain various stereotypes and
then or as you say, elements of it. So then

(21:15):
I create characters out of that and then show versus
telling when it comes to managing or leading them what
tactics work and what technics don't work.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
That's smart?

Speaker 2 (21:23):
Is that? Do you think a lot of fantasy authors
do it this way where there are a lot of
their characters are built off of experiences as they probably Yeah,
it makes sense, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I
feel you kind of have to, like if you're writing, you.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Like writing is ultimately especially as sharing our perspective of
the world right with others, which kind of has to
be grounded in our own experience to some extent, even
if that is an experience of reading about other characters
and other books, like, that's still our experience of that
kind of personality type.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
But then we want to infuse one of our own characters. Yeah,
that makes sense. And I mean even with speriences in worldviews.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
I mean this with C. S.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Lewis said, it is Christian worldview plastered all over those
books because he can't get away from it, and that's
what shapes his writings, you know, his whole algory of
the story before we get into the details of these books,
because I want to learn about kind of the journey
of each of these characters. What do you think the
elements are that makes a good fantasy book? Because there

(22:21):
are millions of fantasy books out there and in your
studies and you're trying to be a better and better author.
Have you found that there's certain characteristic traits of a
book of fantasy book in particular that makes it just
stand out from the rest, And if so, what are those?

Speaker 1 (22:35):
I have not done a lot of studying on fantasy
writing specifically, so I don't know that I can give
like a great answer for it. I think part of
it is just catching the reader's attention. Keeping the reader's
attention not getting too caught up in descriptions. I know
sometimes authors myself included, like my first drafts, I write
some of the most beautiful poetry and how to describe
a tree and all the different things like that, and

(22:56):
some of my testers are like nickeds a tree to
say it's a tree and.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
Move on, Like I don't.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
I don't want to read half a page description of
how awesome this tree is, Like I got it, you know.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
So I think you know, overdescribing is a big fault that.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
Some writers do, and you want to let the readers
let their own mind work and our imagination work. It's
a very healthy skill to build our own imagination. But
again that being said, I I wouldn't say I'm like
a fit. Primarily these books are their purpose is to
teach soft skills, not to educate via fantasy. I use

(23:27):
fantasy as the vehicle because I think that's more engaging,
and we remember stories better than fact. So I think
by showing versus telling and getting the reader immersed in
an emotional journey, to kind of show how to manage
teams rather than saying, here's a textbook of eight thing points.
Keep in mind you know what I mean. I think
it's a better way of teaching. But my primary aim
here is teaching, not entertaining with fantasy. And then with

(23:48):
that being said, do you have like an age bracket
of readers that you write towards of kind of like
because you are trying to teach a lesson? But then
there are different levels of writing, right, because like I
could read my two year old book, and then I
could read pull you know her like a little you
know whatever simple kids book, you know, like the blue,
Little Blue Truck or whatever, right, and then if I

(24:09):
pull her out, you know, like a Charles Dickens, she'd.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Be like Daddy would have you know what I mean?
So do you write with a certain age group in mind?
To try to make sure that your writing is clear
and it can be understood.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
So I write in very simple language because I want
to make it just very simple and easy without a
lot of work on the reader trying to say what
I'm saying. My target age group is probably college age
slash young professional, So someone who's really starting to think
now about what am I doing with my life? What
are the career that I want a lot of these
are soft skills that I feel like are not really
taught in universities very well, and so it's someone who

(24:43):
really But I do think it's the it's the soft
skills that have really helped propel me. For right, it's
my ability to learn to be able to have a
difficult conversation with somebody without damaging their relationship is what
has allowed me to succeed, not what I learned in
school about business.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (24:57):
Right, Nothing, This is nothing against universities. I'm not saying
there's a anything wrong with that, but I feel it.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah, I mean we could have that. Yeah, yeah, we
can't dive into that.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
But I guess I'm just saying I feel like this
education is lacking in the universities. So I feel like
for college kids, slight young professionals who are ready to
start their life, build a career, find success, whatever that
means to them.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
But maybe I want to feel a bit more equipped
with the tools. That's what I'm.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Targeting and in a way that will hopefully resonate deeper
with it. Yes, because it's not just here's another textbook. Yes,
this is what you do if someone does something in
your company you don't like, Right, No, that's not going
to be helpful. But if you tell a story, which
is what your whole premise is, yes, they're going to
feel it, not just read it. Yes, and then it'll
resonate deeper with them on how to move forward. And
that's really what you're trying to accomplish, Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
And so when I write these I do try to
these emotionally impactfault Like, I mean, characters die. This is
not like a sunshine and rainbow and everything's great. I
mean there are moments I've had readers tell me that
they cried during some of the scenes, tears of joy,
tears of sadness. So I'm really trying to create an
experience that will hit hard and land.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
So then when they're out.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
In real world and they're in the heat of the
moment and they're in the middle of a difficult conversation
or they're trying to manage a team and they got
to make a quick judgment decision, they can kind of
think of the characters and what they went through and
kind of what they learned to then make the decision,
rather than trying to remember again ten bill points of
what to do not to do.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
That makes sense, So tell me about some of these books.
So I have the Journey to in a Dark Fairy
again Embracing the Wild.

Speaker 3 (26:22):
So yeah, Like.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
These titles are first of all, very intriguing because if
I read The Dark Fairy, I'm not thinking there's gonna
be a soft skill.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
Taught to me, right, Like it's a very engaging title.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
But then it says a story about listening and ensuring
that others feel understood. Yep, And so we could talk
about this one first. So where did this idea for
this book come from?

Speaker 1 (26:44):
So this was the first book that I wrote, and.

Speaker 3 (26:47):
This is on the skill of listening.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
I feel, I feel it all starts here, and I
feel a lot of a lot of people don't know
how to listen, and they're not taught how to listen,
and it's a lot harder than I think people here,
Like we're taught in school, you have two ears of
one month for a reason, but we're not taught how
to listen, or just as importantly, how to make the
other person feel like we understand them. Like it's one

(27:09):
thing to think you're listening, but it's nothing to make
the other person feel like they're actually understood. I think
if people can master that skill, almost nothing else matters.
Like the second book is on managing teams, but if
you don't know how to listen to the team, you
can't manage them, right. But when we can listen to
others and help them feel understood though a conpts called
psychological air, I'm talked about by Stephen Kovid Believe hyty

(27:31):
Pouns's Last Time, Covey and Seven Types.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
I think it's k someone else said Covey in the podcast.
I think it is. I always say coved.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
Okay, Actually it gets credit for this, but they talked
about the concept of psychological air, and like, if we're
in a difficult conversation, if I feel like you're not
listening to me or you don't understand my perspective, there's
like this darkness. It's it's like the air is sucked
out of this room. And if the air is set
out of this room, you wouldn't care at all what
I have to say. All you'd be thinking about is
how to breathe the same thing with me. And when

(27:57):
we help others feel understood, it's like, really see the
oxygen back into the room. It's giving them psychological errors.
How he phrased it, and to me, that metaphor is
just so powerful and it's crazy. And now I can
see it. If I'm talking to someone and they're just
seeing red and their red face, I can Okay, this
person can't breathe. I'm not going to try to defend myself.
I'm not going to logically talk to them about anything.
I'm literally and now's at the time I'm just going

(28:17):
to say, hey, I hear you. I can tell you
incredibly frustrated. Help me understand your perspective. I want to
make sure you feel heard and understood. And as soon
as you say that, just it's just you can just
you can almost physically see the oxygen going back into
their lungs, like Okay, finally he's the one that listens,
you know. So anyways, bit long winded, but that's the
topic of this and that's why I wrote this one first,
because I feel like listening is just the absolute most

(28:38):
important soft skill the name they can learn.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
And so then you create some sort of character with
a story and follow her through I'm sure some sort
of journey and get to the point, and I'm sure
you talk about the consequences of what happens when people
don't listen, and what can happen, you know, versus when
you do? And I think that's a it's a is
just a when the shout out of Dave Finder, Yeah,

(29:04):
so's he is who connected us that would know you existed.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
And when I when he told me about you, his
eyes like lit up. We're having lunch.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
He's like, dude, this guy Nick, he's writing these awesome
books and they're like he used to return like alig Oracle, right,
He's like alig Oracle for real life skills with fake characters.
And I'm like, dude, this sounds awesome. I know that
I have these books. I mean they're they're beautifully done,
the artwork is beautifully done, and this sounds intriguing. So
this is your first book and then what was next
on the journey? Journey didn't even do that.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
Yeah, let's go journeyed in and this is going to
be one.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
I'm probably gonna be interested to check this out because
I love Woodland creatures.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
Brian Jake or Brian Jack.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Someone told me when I was really young, they actually
pronounced it Jake and doesn't make any sense because it
would be jock.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
I was.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
I always said it was Jock with me too, but
then and then I recently brought it back up. I
said it was he's Brian Jakes and they're like, no,
it's definitely Pride Jocks, and I'm like, someone just lied
to me when I was and I believed them. So
we already briefly talked about this one. This is the
idea of managing teams, and there's a what's the mouse's
name in this one.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
So actually has a shout out to Brian Jakes or Jocks.
His name is Martin. Amazing, I had to give him
a nod.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
That's an inspiration, and so Martin the mouse is trying
to fill a shit pretty much with yeah. So the
promise of this is at the very beginning of it,
his daughter is diagnosed with a fatal illness and she
needs a very rare herb to heal the ear in
us heal the illness, and that herb is found on
the island of Enya.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
But to get to that, it's a very perilous.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
Journey, and it's over the sea and through a lot
of different obstacles. So he has to in order to
save his daughter, he has to staff his ship with
a bunch of team crew members and he has to
learn how to manage them to get to the destination
and back safely.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
Wow, and I'm going to read yeah like this, this
is just yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
I mean, I don't know when you when you say
this just is such a smart idea because I think,
you know, when we talk about fiction or fantasy or whatever,
like cool, you read a book that was interesting to you,
right now?

Speaker 3 (31:01):
What right?

Speaker 2 (31:03):
But then what you're doing is you have some sort
of like real life lesson that you know. I think
even you know, younger than college, even high school kids
could really you know, learn in a way that's interesting.
And I think this is just great man like And
first of all, just sounds like a very interesting premise.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
So I thank you. I pretty sure to chalk that
one up for later. And what's next next is Embracing
the Wild.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
So it's a book that goes over the concept of
anti fragility, which was a really and this was a
coin phrase in the spirit of consistently in messing up
last names, we'll take a stab of this, but I
think it's the same. Tala He wrote a book called
I think it was literally called anti Fragile. It was
an amazing book. It's like a six hundred page book,
very small font. I enjoyed it, but it's a definitely
a dense read. But I love the concept of it

(31:47):
and basically kind of what it talks about are I
feel like a lot of people as we go through
this is definitely speaking to myself, you know, in the
first person. So yeah, I'll just use all with myself. So,
like five years ago, I tried to control everything, so
try to wake up the day with an expectation of
hot the day was going to go. I tried to

(32:07):
plan for all the things that could happen, have an
action plan for all those But the problem is life
is uncertain. Nature's uncertain. There was so much randomness that
you can't predict, and there are setbacks that are going
to happen. There's no amount of planning you can do
to avoid all setbacks. And I feel how I used
to deal with uncertainty. When those things would come up,
you would ruin my day. I would get upset, those
stressors would wear me down. I'd feel like it was

(32:29):
a failure of mine. If I made a bad hiring
decision or firing decision, or some strategic decision, and it
used to get really down about it. But the concept
anti fragility is we are anti fragile, which means we
actually we get stronger when dealt with uncertainty and random
stressor so think about going to the gym, right, So
our muscles, If our muscles just every day everything was fine,
there was no stress or no pressure, eventually they're gonna

(32:51):
turn into a blob and they're going to wither away.
Say a thing with us as humans, like if we
I mean, there's a lot of stories abou people getting
depressed off a bunch of money or just sitting around
doing nothing because they no longer deal with the stress
the uncertainty. Then they just the happiness is not the
result of that. Right, But like with our muscles, when
you go into a gym, it's the random stressors, right,
it's the lifting, the way, it's the running or whatever.
And if you use the same movement over and over,

(33:12):
so you get If you try to get rid of
the randomness by doing the same thing, that's not as good.
Like the best way for maximum muscle growth is random stressors.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
It's changing it up.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
It's not going for a walk on smooth pavement. It's
going for a walk on like a bumpy trail. So
then all those small little muscles in your stabilizer or
whatever the proper terminologies for your feet, they get worked
out properly, Whereas if you're just doing the same movement
over and over and over, you get rid of that randomness.
So it's the combination of randomness and stressors is what
makes us grow stronger, and it's the absence of them

(33:41):
that makes us go weaker. So now as I deal
with uncertainty, and as I deal with randomnes and stresses,
I no longer try to eliminate it. I've accepted it.
And don't get me wrong when I get bad news
and like that. I mean, it's not sunshine and rainbows,
but I know that this is how I grow, Like
uncomfortableness is growth. So it's a very different mindset way
of approaching the random nature of the world, I should say,

(34:02):
not just business of the world. And I feel like
that mindset shift is extraordinarily powerful. So I feel like
I'm not doing the topic justice as an articulat No,
you are, and I think it made sense to me.
So at least you have one person one hundred cent
tracking with you. So you did a really good job.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
I mean, I think, like, dude, like podcasters need to
read this if you put and make any content, because
you cannot be fragile and put yourself online like you
can't right, Like I could show you the comments that
I have gotten and and you just won't survive. And
then with business, like whether it's just bad news, whether
it's you hire someone that you think they're going to

(34:37):
be the great employee and they turn it to be
a terrible employee. And there's just so many things that
I struggle with this a lot, just the up and downs.
Like I my natural tendency is to ride my highs
really high and to ride my lows really low. And
as you know, as a business, and that's a terrible
way to live life. Yes, if you are an entrepreneur,
it is miserable enough. Yes, And you know how you
doing today, and then your happiness is always dependent on

(34:58):
your circumstances, which is not how it's it be. And
so I think the premise of this is another really
strong premise.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
And you're right, like adversity.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
Is what creates you know, what would say pressure creates diamonds, Right,
it's the same kind of concept. And I think so
many times we try to build our lives away from
all pressure. Yes, and that's what you're saying, Like, and
so what you're going to turn to a blob? You
know if you try to keep protecting yourself in every way,
Like if I protected myself, I would have never created

(35:27):
a podcasts. I would have never had certain guests that
I've had on the podcast. We can talk about those
later that you know put me in a spotlight er
given my opinions on certain things on a podcast, because
I would just be too afraid. And at the end
of the day, like, so you know why live right exactly?
Like you know, you need to take reasonable precautions so
you don't blow up, right, Like if I just watch

(35:48):
across the street blind without looking anywhere and I get
hit by a card, like that's not doing it by
any favors. But if everything else though, we always go stronger.
We always grow stronger with that uncertainty. One of my
favorite vacations a close body from from high school. We
went to Costa Rica.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
And usually it's like, Okay, I have everything booked and
everything plans, so I make sure there's not gonna be
any boredom or we have everything thing to account for.
We just had our first night bookd and our last
night book. We had no idea what we're doing in between.
Like I don't want to plan anything. I literally want
to get there. I want to talk to the locals.
I want to find out where the places to go are.
I am sure we will find a roof somewhere that
we can stay.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
It might not be the.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Most pleasant accommodations in the world, but we're not going
to just be sleeping on the streets, you know what
I mean. Like there's something and that trip was an
absolute blast. Like every day it's like, hey, do you
want to stay here another day or not? Versus other vacations,
it's like, well, you know, we said we were going
to leave up for two days, and even though we
wish we could stay here, that was not part of
the planet book.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
So we're out of here you now.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
So are you familiar with YouTube channel called Yes Theory? No,
you need to watch them, Okay, Like you love Yes
Theory they do. They basically it's the theory of saying yes,
that's what it is. And they basically give each other
challenges that they fulfill that are literally that that'll it'll
be like uncomfortable, but they've been to the most remote
places in the world. It's like a travel channel. But

(36:55):
they kind of started it off like the when I
first found them, they would literally do like to throw
the dart thing and just travel there. But they since
have done like I don't know if you've heard of
a guy named wim Hoff.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
He's known as the Iceman.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
So they they traveled the wim Hoff and they did
a whole thing with wim Hoff just saying yes to
adversity and putting their bodies through that.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
So it's a group of guys. It's a really good channel.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
I haven't watched it much recently, but like probably like
twenty twenty one, my wife and I were like heavily invested,
like every release. But that's what they're saying, like the
whole premise of and what they've found is when you
don't make those parameters at your trip, you're gonna meet
amazing people, right, You're gonna beat the You're gonna have
the most fun, the coolest like you know, and not
to get you know again, I get myself in trouble

(37:34):
out on the show because that's what I do. But
I just feel like we're living in like an ultimate
fragile time, Like everyone gets offended about everything, everyone on
both sides on anything. And I'm not singling anyone out.
I am a little bit no skinning, but like, you know, anything,
like I feel like if if anyone's feelings get hurt,
it's like they need everyone to acknowledge their feeling got hurt.

(37:55):
And it's just this uh. I mean that's why I
think a lot of people that have opinions are even
afraid to put them online because they're like, oh, I
don't want to I don't want to put my opinions
online because I don't want to offend anybody. It's like, well,
that's not a great way to live, you know. Jordan
Peterson said something that I really appreciate. He was on

(38:15):
this interview with this British lady and she was kind
of like, you've said a lot of things that have
offended a lot of people to him, and he responded
with She's like, do you feel bad about that? And
he said, you know, He's sat there and Jordan Peterson
way just sits there and just stares off, you know,
for like a second, and he basically said, to be
able just to have the freedom to think your risk

(38:37):
offending somebody like you have to be able to be
willing to offend just to explore ideas, because in the
expiration of ideas there might be someone out there that
will be offended. And that's not the goal. That's not what
we're trying to do. But if you don't live in
ever fragile world, then you have the ability to like
the things you can accomplish is so much more because

(38:59):
you're not just always down and depressed and sad because
someone looked at you mean the other day, and like
all that kind of stuff. There's just so much more
you can accomplish in life, and even even non entrepreneurs, right,
like you're just an employee working your way through a company,
if you can figure out a way to ride life,
you know, even not be like me, which is up
and down, knup and down. I just think you accomplished

(39:20):
so much more in life. And that's really kind of
what you're going for here, right, Yeah, Yeah, that's basic
how to avoid becoming fragile. Yeah, that wasn't really a question.
I kind of just got myself boxes. No, No, I
appreciate it. I mean a lot of we said resonated
with me, and I agree with that. Yeah, and I
think I think this is just yeah, And the working
out analogy that you used to is so good because,

(39:40):
like I said, if we're not challenging ourselves or putting
ourselves in uncomfortable situations, like we're not going to grow right,
And that's really what you're doing here.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
And actually thats a you're I don't say you're dying,
but like if it's, I mean you are withering away
to some extent. And if you go through three years
and you never deal with any stressors of adversity, your
mental ability to your mental emotional pass every want to
call it, to deal with stressors actually weakends. So then
if you do deal with some adversity after like three
years of everything's been great, you might not know how

(40:08):
to deal with that. And then that's when you could
get mortally wounded in business or personal life. You might
have a major setback if you're not to deal with it.
But if you're just if it's part of your life
and you do stuff and you put stuff out there
and you get burned every so often and bumped and bruised,
but nothing, you're not losing a limb or whatever, then
it's like when it's showtime. Right, when you have a
maker at life or die decision in your business or
your personal life or whatever, you have the ability to

(40:29):
then see through it and make a good decision. YEA,
where you've been working that you've been ready, No, exactly,
you've been training that, just like with meditating and focus.
Like when you meditate, you're physically growing a muscle in
your brain responsible up and your focus. So by being
able to meditate and focusing on the breath every day
and repeating that when you get into a very chaotic
situation where you're in a meeting and you're negotiating, you

(40:49):
got to respond immediately that ability to focus and kind
of get rid of the noise and stay centered on
your breath and be able to think clearly. I mean
I've made a scene amount of success business by being
able to do that in a heated room. I think
clearly when everyone else is not exactly and I and
I like meditating for example for that. So just like yeah, anyways, no,

(41:11):
this is we don't have a digenda.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
So I love these little rabbit trails.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
So but it's all those things, so kind of back
to like why I'm reading It's like that, like knowing
how to think clearly when everybody else is not knowing
how to focus. Like, those are the life skills that
are going to help you achieve whatever goal it is
you're after. It's not you know how to do derivatives
or integrals or you know, any kind of that kind
of stuff. Again, not knocking the universities or whatever, but
like a little bit, those are Those are the skills

(41:38):
I'm trying to supplement. That's what I'm trying to provide
the readers. It's a different perspective and those types of
things that I don't think a lot of people really
think about when they're just coming out of college and
they're ready to start, and I.

Speaker 3 (41:47):
Think they just get thrown a deep end.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
And in a way, you're trying to give them a
little bit of a life boat before they need it,
you know, and build that out. I think it's great, man.
I think it makes a lot of sense, and I
think people need this. I think everything every soft skill
that we've talked about so far before we getting this
is the new one. I'm assuming, Okay, we'll get there
in a second. I don't want to spoil the excitement,
but like everything, listening and understood, managing teams, and avoiding

(42:11):
fertility like this fragility, this is great. Do you have
how many of these soft skills do you have like
a list of them that you're like, I want to
eventually get all of these.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
How big is your list? Oh? Man?

Speaker 1 (42:23):
I have like a full course outline. I'm like loosely
calling it the self Mastery Academy. Maybe it'll stick. Maybe
it Well, I have like three books that I'm ready
to write right now.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
I've got it. The plot is done, the characters are done.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
It's clawing at me every day that I'm not able
to write on it. So I have like three books
that I'm ready to run now, probably another four that
I've got the I know the concept I kind of
got up, but it's not fully fleshed out just yet.
So yeah, I have no shorter of ideas. It's like,
I absolutely love it. I could talk about it all day.
I love everything about it.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Before we get to this last book, I want to
ask you a question. Have you delved into any type
of like language creation in your writings yet, Like when
you create a language like from like Tolkien created Elvish
and created a full you know, alphabet whatever fake language?

Speaker 3 (43:08):
Have you delved into that world? Have not doven into
that world?

Speaker 2 (43:11):
Out? Is it something you've ever thought about doing? Because
I think that would be such a hard but yet
really cool. Like Christopher Paaloni, he had a full Elvish
language in Aragon, you know, and it's just like, has
that Have you ever studied those things in your writings
or like languages or that kind of thing? Is I
was kind of been curious to you an author like
that has to be an unbelievable challenge.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Right, So I kudo said every author that's done that that,
that's crazy. I haven't thought about language creation specifically, but
I've been getting really into musicals lately, and like The
Greatest Showman, I love that great. I don't know if
you're here to Epic the musical. It's about the story
of the Odyssey that just came out like the old

(43:52):
like Iliod. Really it's so it's a story of Odysseus
after the war when he's going home to Penelope.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
Isn't isn't it when he meets Medusa on the way home.
Isn't that the book? I don't remember I read it once.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
Medusa is not in the musical. I don't remember if
it was in the original story or not it was.
It is a phenomenal anyway, another side track, but I
love the side I'm so used to running like my
L ten meetings, and it's like, literally, this is amazing.
I just got other three hours of L ten meetings
of sporting, so I switch they find those very very

(44:26):
effective meetings.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
Likes to you.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
But okay, anyways, so I'm not exploring language creation yet,
but I really I'm appreciating the power and like good
musicals and the stories that are being able to be
told in song form. So I'm trying to figure out
to incorporate that into my book somehow. And I don't
know whether that's like through poetry. I know Tolien had
some songs in there, but I'm trying to I'm trying

(44:49):
to find a way to capture that experience that I
feel when I hear like a really powerful song, like
pretty much everything in the Greatest Gentleman, I think it
is phenomenal, and I'm trying to figure out how do
I bring that experience into a book. I don't quite
have the answer, but that's kind of what I'm in
next book that I'm writing, I'm I'm going to try
to figure that out a little bit. Yeah, so it's
more songs versus a different language, and then how to
This is.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Really stupid and you're not asking for advice, but I'm
going to give it because appreciate it. Like, is it
as simple as describing the music that the characters are
hearing to try to convey what they're feeling while listening
to that music? Is it?

Speaker 3 (45:23):
Is it that simple or is that just dumb?

Speaker 1 (45:25):
Actually that's good perspective. I didn't really think about it.
I was I've been thinking about how do I present
the song, if you will, in a way that the
reader feels that. But I guess if I presented the
song and then I explain the character's perspective of that,
then the reason of what they feeling, you could explain
like the swelling of the orchestra, the drop in the whatever,

(45:46):
and you could if the song's making the character feel sad,
why is that what's happening?

Speaker 3 (45:52):
What is the feeling?

Speaker 2 (45:53):
You know?

Speaker 3 (45:53):
I don't know, Like that could be that's a really
good idea. So it wasn't to give your credit. No,
it wasn't. Actually no, it was, yes, it wasn't time.
It's like if I think about how.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Do I how do I feel when you listen to
that music, like when we listen to the Greatest Show,
like this is the greatest show, right, Like like you
know in describing that feeling in the music, and you
could almost work through like when these instruments or these
style is played, this is the feeling that ensues, right,

(46:23):
so like minor key, sadness, major keys and I don't.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Know that's a good idea. Okay, that's mulled over, Thank you.
I appreciate the This is why we do rabbit trails.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
This is why we're we're doing rabbit trails for this reason.
Right here, let's go, I can say I help someone.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
This is good. Yeah, well, I mean so no language
is though not yet anyway, you're not saying I'll never
do it, finnestly, the thought never crossed my mind. Yes.
The only reason why I think it's just really cool.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
Like I just think ads with Tolkien for example, or Paloni,
like when you have a world that also has its
own language, it's just like a depth, like there's like
another layer of like wow, like they had like reality, right,
and then you know, I'm sure you've been. I was
a nerd in high school. So then there'd be like
people be on forums and they would only write in

(47:09):
that language. And I remember I created my own like
dumb little language when I was in junior high, like you.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
Know, A equals this symbol, be equals this symbol. Start
writing in code so that way if the teacher catches,
you know, they can't.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
I wrote like I got to the point where whatever
stupid language I created, I would write like whole page
journal entries with it, and I loved it. I feel
like with A I would be pretty easy to be
like you write it once and then say like A
equals this character, and now I'm just going to write
type this out normally and then just insert it into
the book pages.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
But anyway, I'll think about that, Yeah, you know how
to do that. We'll give me some good ideasm all around.
So I appreciate that, Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
I just think like when you add that like layer
of it's just I almost feel like people when I
read Aragon, for example, because I already read Lord of
Rings at that point, I was just like, oh, this
guy wasn't playing.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
Around with this, you know.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
It was almost just like this like extra like, oh
he's serious, you know, like I think it's like on
paid like the first chapter.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
There was Elvish and I was like, and you know,
I was like, oh cool.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
And then even when they would it'd be like the
elves would sing, then he would write it in Elvish.
And just so there's just so many different, unique things
that you could do. And so maybe in the next
future books, you know, I just want like a little
give you a nod for sure, you can name a
character like I don't know, I don't know, think about

(48:29):
think about your character a.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
Little bit, let me know. Then I'll incorporate them into
a future book. What I maybe like an obese diabetic mouse.
Good I was kidding. I was kidding. I've lost weight.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Okay, that'd be fun anyway, Okay, so new book though,
I'd love to talk about this. So we have three
books you've already made, which how does that feel, man?
To just sit here with four hard copy real stories
that you've written, after, like you said, ten years of
almost losing your why not even writing?

Speaker 3 (49:00):
Now we're here? How does it feel?

Speaker 2 (49:01):
It is?

Speaker 1 (49:01):
It is crazy because I, like, four years ago, I
had nothing and I was just starting to think about
the Dark Ferry. And now it's I got four published books,
can write to write the next one. It's it's a
crazy feeling. It's tough to to to explain. It feels
really really good.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
Though, And the next step is we need to get
this in hands as many people as we can, because
I think that's writing the book is half.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
The battle, and then now marketing it, getting it out
that's the next battle. And I'm not good at that
next battle.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
But now I want to get a handful of books
out there just so I add something which I feel
like I'm at now. So now I'm trying to figure
out the marketing angle of it. Yeah, it's definitely not
I'm a very good writer. I feel I feel very
confident writing abilities, but I am not a good marketer.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
So it's true of it like business right like generally speaking,
like I'm a very good people person, for example, but
I suck at details. This is why Tom people like, yeah,
see he's in the room over there because he is
good at like all the details and playing my calendar
and all this stuff. Because I just suck at that.
But if you ask me to do this, or hang
out with someone, or do like, that's what I'm good at.
So you're good at the writing, and you a partner

(50:00):
that can just exactly yeah, boost out the market and stuff.
But hopefully this podcast helps the marketing a little bit.
And with that being said, let's talk about this new book.
Would you do you want to tell us about it?

Speaker 3 (50:09):
Yeah, so this one is my newest book.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
It's the Space between Us and the concept here is
navigating difficult conversations. So this covers diffent conversations that we
have personally, professionally. It could be a negotiation, like a
business negotiation. It could just be you know, a kid
in their parent having a disagreement on something, or friends
or anything like that. But it's life is filled with

(50:32):
difficult conversations and I feel a lot of people try
to avoid those. We kind of talked about the concept
of fragility and how people are I'm sorry, we talked
about the concept of fragility and how people's avoid saying
things because they don't want to hurt somebody else's feeling.
And you act made a really good comment, and that
actually takes away from the content of our dialogue. Right, So,

(50:52):
if you're if you're at a business meeting and you're
dealing with the new competitor that open up in town,
and you feel like a certain department needs to change something.
I was dropping the ball, but you don't want to
say anything because ahead of the department's on the meeting,
and you don't want to damage that relationship thing, you
just don't say anything.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
Now, we're not acknowledging the root issue here that will
actually help us survive.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
So I feel a lot of people myself included back
in the day and I still strug with us today
is you know, we avoid difficult conversations because we don't
want to damage the relationship. I don't want to tell
you a truth that might hurt your feelings or make
you think less of me or demotivate you or something
like that. So I'm just going to avoid the conversation
entirely until you know, weeks turned into months turned into years,

(51:31):
and the problems thing is bigger and bigger and bigger
than the volcano explodes, and then it's just at all
laundry lists.

Speaker 3 (51:36):
It's way worse to everybody. Everyone in the team get
damaged in it.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
So I feel and I'm not saying I'm perfect at it,
And now I'm not afraid of dificult conversations anymore. And
I'll go into them and I will still stub my
toe or say the wrong thing and whatever, but I
have enough clarity that I can see through it and
get through it with somebody where where you get to
the answer. We can be transparent and asked with one another,
and no matter how difficult the conversations, when we walk away,
we have not sacrificed our respect for one I might

(52:00):
have told you something that you don't like, but you
know by by the end of the conversation, you know
that it's coming from my heart. And I am trying
to I love you, and I'm trying to help you
and help us as a team. And I'm doing that
by being transparent with you, not by sugarcoating the truth,
because that's a disservice to you.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
I'm being selfish to make us for myself. Right. So
that's kind of a that's a big motivation pad right
in this book.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
And to talk about a skill that no one has,
because like I feel like in this world, I mean
it is there's a unique few that I've mastered this
and I think it's for two reasons. I think if
two very stark ends to this ability on one end
and like negative ends. On one side, you have people

(52:41):
that are so afraid of offending, so afraid of the repercussions,
that they never are honest because they don't want to
be the problem, right, They don't want to cause a problem,
even if they know something needs to improve, something needs
to change, they just don't want to cause conflict. And
on the flip side, I think I have people that
just thrive in conflict and they actually don't even want

(53:02):
to do it to help anyone. They just want to
just they might even be the right. Yeah, they might
even be right, but they just like love the just
the always be the brash, nasty kind of person. So
I feel like there's like two types of people. And
to be able to be good at like organically bringing
up maybe someone else's fault while doing it in a

(53:23):
way that still conveys love and care is a skill
set and it's not easy to do. And I think
for me, what I struggle with mainly is what if
I'm the one that's wrong. That's what I have in
my brain. So like I might be in our agency
or with my podcast producer, I might be like I'm
telling you this is the way we need to go.
But then I have this thing in the back of moment,

(53:45):
what if Dylan, what if you're the wrong one? You know?
And then sometimes like then I won't say anything. It's like, well,
you know what you do your thing, I'm not even
gonna I don't.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
And it's in that fear.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
It's what we're talking about with the other. It's a fragility.
It's but then if I said, hey, man, I might
be wrong here, but let me tell you exactly what
I'm thinking.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
Yes, yes, like what a breath of fresh air.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
Yes, Like even in this conversation, we're both like, oh,
that's the way to do that, you know. And so
like when I'm working with my producer, it's the same way,
like he thinks our clips need to be a certain way.
And then there might be times where I'm just like, okay, man,
that's fine, just doing your way. Yeah, it's like no, no, no,
what do you really think cash, Yeah, it's like just
tell me. And you know, especially with relations to me

(54:28):
and my wife, Like it was really funny. This happened
two nights ago. We don't get in a fight.

Speaker 3 (54:33):
I'm not going.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
But it was something to where she asked me something
and before she finished asking she said, you know what,
it's fine, actually I'll just do it right.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
And it wasn't. She wasn't mad at all, she wasn't frustrated.
I was like, no, no, like, what would you like?
Would you like me to do this? I'm more than
happy to just tell me what you want in this situation.
She's like, no, no, you have to work.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
Just it's okay, I got it. I'm like, Hannah, tell
me what you want. She say, okay, can I I'd
love to just have a moment to myself. Could I
just go and take Curtis, which is the youngest cand
We just go to the store real quick. You hang
with Madeline And I was like, is that what you
really want? She's like yes, Like then yes, just tell me,
you know. And it was a moment for her because
she felt bad because currently as you know, like I

(55:15):
ran home. It was kind of a stressful day. I
was behind because of a couple of other things, and
we had a couple of fires that was putting out,
and then I had a call that was about ready
to happen always Yeah, this was the last night I
had a call that I had to happen, and it
was with one of my former podcast guests. He's the
he was the ex NFL athlete and he also owns
the insurance business. It's kind of a big call, and
so all this was happening, you know, and she's like,
you know what, it's okay, And I'm like, well, let's

(55:37):
know what you want though, like communicate And there might
have been a situation where she communicates what she wants
and then I say.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
Can we do that tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
It doesn't mean she gets it yes, or it doesn't
mean I get it, but at least communicate so that
way I can then clearly make a decision. I think
the worst thing team members can do, marriage can do
is you don't give you, your partner, your significant other
all the information they need to make an informed decision. Yes,
and that's really you're damaging them as a result of
not being honest.

Speaker 3 (56:05):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
And one of the things that you said is so key.
It doesn't mean that the person's gonna get what they want.
Like if I share with you what I want you
to do, it doesn't mean you have to say yes.
Like understanding and acknowledging someone's perspective and point of view
does not mean that you agree with that. It just
means you understand and acknowledge it. And that alone, regardless
of what happens after, that is such a huge, huge,
huge victory because even if you do something different, if

(56:28):
at least the person's like, hey, at least I I
know you understand me.

Speaker 3 (56:31):
I know you heard me.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
And now if you're going to do something differently, you're
still going to you can do anyways. You're probably gonna
explain why and help me understand why you're not able
to do that. And if we can understand each other,
even if I don't agree with the decision, even if
I wish you were just thing differently, it's.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
Tough to be that mad at you, you know what
I mean?

Speaker 1 (56:45):
If we're both you know, we're given to each other's
psychological error. We know you know, we know what we're
trying to say and communicate. We're closing the space between us.
That's why I call it the space between us. We're
closing that gap, so we're speaking more heart to heart.
It's just it completely changes the dynamic. A lot of
times people would just still agree to avoid the conflict,
and then they kind of sacrifice some self worth a
little bit when you do that.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Yeah, and you sacrifice just the best case scenario right
at the end of the day. And I find myself,
I don't love conflict. And my wife grew up in
a very high conflict home and so now she does
everything to not get in conflict too.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
And so you have two people that don't thrive for conflict. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Yeah. And you know, we've been married for eight seven years.
Eight years seven years, yeah, a long time, and it's
getting like seven years. Is that we've learned that about
each other. And I'm very I'm quicker than she is
to being willing to nip the conflict in the butt
in the butt, And I think that's the other thing
of listening and understanding how people function. Like I've learned
there's times like if we have a disagreement, I want

(57:45):
to be like, hey, let's fix this right now, let's
talk about this right now. And because I want to
fix it, you know, I'm like, let's get this done.
And I've learned from her that it's the best case
scenario for us to pick it up in an hour,
because that's actually when she's communicated to me, She's like, hey,
sometimes just let me just be alone. I'm gonna pray,
I'm gonna just take a moment with the Lord, and

(58:06):
then I'll come back, because otherwise she's like, then, I like,
if you force me to deal with this right now,
I might say things I regret later, but if you
give me that moment of clarity. And then it took
me a while to understand that, because I was like, no,
let's it'll be fine, Like, let's just talk about it now.
It's not gonna be a big deal. And I learned, like,
that's just how she functions. And you know, I have
another business partner that it took me a while to

(58:27):
understand this too. But when we have a disagreement on
something business or something, I'm very much I could think
on my feet very well. So if you come to
me with a problem, one of my skill sets is
I can just let's get it done right. I don't
need time to think about it. My gun, I've really like,
is generally right, Like I generally make good decisions on
the fly. He needs to process things, things things through.

(58:49):
And so we just recently had a big kind of
issue we were kind of working through, and I learned
that I was like, let me just type him out
an email.

Speaker 3 (58:58):
So I typed him out.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
I'm like, hey, man, I would like to talk to
you about all of this. When you're ready to talk
about this, let's talk about it. It was the best
conversation we've ever had because that's exactly what he needed.
But if I would have come in there and just
been like this, insane, bro, why are we making these decisions?
Blah blah blah, like, it wouldn't have been a productive conversation.

(59:20):
But because I've really been trying to practice what you're
teaching here is listening to what he needs. And what
he needed was time to process. And I'm like, hey,
just so you know, I'm not going to come in
here and just throw this. This is what we talk
about now for someone else, like I would hate for
you do that with me because then I'd be like,
oh my goodness, we're talking about all this stuff like y.

(59:41):
He just he could sleep on it. He could think
about it and come prepared and so that's exactly what
you know. So we're working on it. And Ken Bogart,
I was, you know, talking to you about him. He
has a book called No Honesty, but it's Ken a
O W. No honesty, and that's kind of his premise
with not beutiful characters, just this sense of, hey, you

(01:00:02):
need to be open and honest with people. Yea, And
I think I need to introduce you to him because
I think that'd be a good connection for you. Awesome,
because he does a lot of book stuff. But b
now that you're this is a problem that is in marriages,
between parents and kids, between business partners, between employees and employers.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
I mean, this is just such a great topic. So
I think you kneeled it on the topic.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
Can you divulge a little bit about the characters, like
what kind of goes on in this book, or you
don't want to spoil it?

Speaker 3 (01:00:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Yeah, And I can be a small little spoiler, but
obviously I'm not going to ruin anything big. This is
my far my most ambitious work. This was kind of
my most complex idea. So the basic premise, there's there's
three main characters. So the first two is a squirrel
in a chipmunk, and the chipmunk is a prisoner of war,
and the squirrel is the as a captain in the

(01:00:54):
military who's charged with interrogating the chipmunk to get information
out of him.

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
This is not a book about torture or anything like so.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
It was good, right, right, right, So this is not
like a bloody anything like that, but because I was
trying to think about what's difficult conversation and interrogation is
a pretty difficult conversation, right, And a lot of the
inspiration of this came from Never Split the Difference by Thanks.
Chris Voss is a name, and he talks about more
like hostage negotiations. But I really like that book, so
I grabbed a lot of some inspiration of that. So anyways,

(01:01:21):
that's kind of the premise of it. A difficult conversations
I feel like happened in two worlds. There's the interpersonal
world between us, but then there's the internal world. So
the third character, there's like a separate world that is
inside the consciousness of the chipmunk is being interrogated, and
so the third character is an elemental water elemental that
lives inside that world that's in this consciousness. So while

(01:01:43):
the difficult conversation is playing out, the readers go through
the journey of both what's happening in the external world,
Like between the mouse I'm sorry, the squirrel and the
chipmunk but then also while that's happening real time, what's
happening inside the chipmunk's mind, So we can kind of
see that during our conversation when we when we when
we do a tactic that's that great, how that impacts
people's consciousness and it makes them hard to be open minded?

(01:02:05):
And then how but when you do it the proper technique,
what happens inside the mind of the other person, and
why it makes it easier for them to then have
that conversation. So I'm trying to show both our inside
our consciousness as well as external.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Almost like forgive me, this does not meant to be offensive.
This to help inside Out kind of like the movie
Inside Out, where there's like you can the outside factors
of let's say, her missing a golden hockey influences the
characters that we're living inside of her brain, right, the
different feelings of emotions. And it's a similar concept of that,
which is outside the way you talk to someone can
affect the inside of who they are, and you chose

(01:02:40):
to do this in a way to explain it with
different worlds and that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
But that's kind of the concept of it, right. So
I've never seen the movie Inside Out.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
I've heard about it, and based on what you just said,
it sounds very similar.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
So I've not seen that movie. You watch it added
to the list.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
But I'm also like a dad of a two year old,
so we also just thrive on watching animated movies. Fun fact,
I only crying movies unless they're animated. Really, I don't
know what it is, but animated movies get me. Bro.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
Have you seen Wild Robot? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Bro, so I watched that when I had one hundred
and one fever on medication, and I kid you not,
my wife came down. She I was like quarantined in
the basement when I was sick. This is like in January.
I hadn't seen anyone like my kids in two days
because I was like dying right, quarantine was thrown up.
It was just a mess, okay, And I watched Wild

(01:03:27):
Robot with like no sleep miserable, and I was like,
she came down. I was mide, just like ugly cry,
like you know, and she's like, what are you watching.
I tried to tell her about the movie and I
couldn't get through it without just sobbing. So yeah, that
was probably I think Wild rowe was probably the hardest

(01:03:49):
I've ever cried in a movie, just because I was
also really sick.

Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
But it's great, great film, great film.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
Oh man, I'm goodding man something about like and also
this is gonna be really dumb, so but like I'm
adopted and so that movie in that moment, that's what
like hit me was because they're not blood related, but
she is taking care of moment. You know, that's the owner,
Like she's the parrot.

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
It doesn't you know. And I was just like, oh,
you know, dying. That's a cheer jerker.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Oh yeah, So anybody anyway, like that's that's that's a premise.
And I think it's a beautiful story. And so ideally
this podcast is going to be out the day this
drops yep, August twelfth is August twelfth, So it really
seemed to this today ode Amazon in the description pick
up a copy. It's gonna be on Amazon, right, So

(01:04:40):
any other instructions you want to give our listeners to
how they get a copy, is anything you want to do?
Leave a comment like this is your opportunity promom with
the book in full. Okay, So I'm definitely good at
the promoing aspect of life. But yeah, so if this
is on August twelfth, the book comes out, it's incredibly important.
Every sale on August twelfth is huge because then that'll
give me a chance of reaching the number one bestseller
status on Amazon, which of I do that, then I

(01:05:00):
can say this is a number one Amazon best seller,
which we're really ultimately what that does, like, I'm not
doing this for the money, like the royalties. I'm pressing
it really low, so it's minimal. I'm really looking for impact.

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
So if it hits number one status, there's just a
lot of other synergistic benefits of it, so more people
become aware that the book exists. And I do genuinely
feel from the botto of my heart this book can
help people navigate diffue conversations what can help them in life.
So every purchase on August twelve specifically is huge as
exponentially beneficial. But if you look watching this after August twelfth,

(01:05:31):
obviously just to read the book, I would love an
Amazon review. Amazon reviews are the other big thing. So
if you do get the review, I'm sorry. If you
do get the book, and if you read it and
if you genuinely like it, I absolutely love an Amazon review,
Amazon review, and any kind of feedback you have, positive
or negative, very big on transparent feedback so I can
improve my future books.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
Yeah, well, listen, guys. I heavily recommend you, guys to
called The Space Between Us. It's available on Amazon right now.
Please go ahead pick up a copy Amazon Review. But
if you were listening to this episode two day on
August twelve, stop what you're doing in the description of
this video will be the link. So go get the book.
Support Nick everything that he's doing. And if you enjoyed
this conversation, obviously like you're going to enjoy the books,

(01:06:12):
you're right, Like, that's if you made it this part
on the podcast, you got to buy the bus.

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
That pretty good?

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
Yeah, what are we doing? And so please check out
that book. Rate it as high of a star rating
as you possibly can as you enjoyed that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
And uh, but thank you, Nick.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
This has been fun. I've enjoyed this conversation. Can you
believe we talked for an or an hour already?

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
Has it really been? I've completely lost check it time
hour and six minutes already. It's wild. This podcasting goes
fast when you're having fun. You know, when you have
a good conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
Like it's been like an hour and twenty before I've
been like, we've been talking for fifteen minutes, right, and
you know, my alarm is going off, like you have
a meeting, right, you know? And so but I do
I appreciate your insight and all this stuff, and I
think what you're doing is great. Man. I think this
is the world needs those skills. But I love the
creative angle your take. You're not just saying, hey, here's

(01:07:01):
another webinar. It's you're putting in hours more work because
you could probably do a presentation on those soft skills today.
But then the reality is doing it in a way
that makes the most impact.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
And that's what Yeah, to stick with the reader. It's like, yeah,
I could right now, in five minutes give you all
the pointers, but two days from now it's going to
be you're going to forget about it. So yeah, just
to actually make it last, that's a lot of work.

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
But I mean, I love it. It's a true passion
for MI, and so I enjoy it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
Have you ever considered, as we wrap up a couple,
you know, fun level final questions, have you ever considered
doing it any other type of like non allegorical writing,
like just you know, maybe like maybe one that's not
trying to pursue soft skill Like have you ever tried
to do just like a historical writing or like a
I don't know, just any other style of writing. Or
is this kind of just where your lane is you
just love it? Like would you do a horror book

(01:07:49):
with this type of thing? You know, like, yeah, I
had to thrive during scary times or something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
You know, So I wrote I wrote two fantasy books
for young adults when I was in high school and
college that would just just pure fantasy. And yeah, at
some point I think I would want to do that.
I mean, I do have some ideas of just pure
entertainment that I want to create that probably we'll always
have some kind of soft schools and FUSONICU that's just
like who I am. But that's not the primary focus,

(01:08:16):
and the primary focus is more the entertainment aspect of it.
I do have some ideas that I would like to
write about, but I have just I have a handful
of concepts that I need to get done with this
first before I would just have the desire to really
spend a lot of time in it. Because I just
a lot of this that I'm writing about is just
for like my team members. I have several hundred employees,
and I want, you know, live like it's happening, right yeah, yeah,

(01:08:37):
And it's like it's just driving me nuts because I
just have so many things that I could just give
certain people that I feel would really really help them,
and I want to get that done first before. So
but maybe I have to, like the tenth book of this,
then maybe I'll splur it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
I'll just have some fun in retirement around and just
write a book just that's just for fun really, so
that point you'll be like a bajillionaire and with millions
of readers, and I will say it'll be great.

Speaker 3 (01:09:00):
We'll see.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
But like I said, even not, man, I think you're
of the mindset like if you could just impact one person,
two people, three people, like that's the beautiful thing, right,
Like with my podcast, I'm never going to be the
biggest podcast in the world most likely, No, it's getting
never gonna happen. But if I've already been able to
impact hundreds and hundreds of people, and I'm like, dude.

Speaker 3 (01:09:19):
That's well.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
And I'm guessing when you get that feedback from a
viewer says, hey, I just watch your podcast and it
really like, I mean, there's nothing like it, Like that
is just the absolute peak of fulfillment. Like I mean,
like heire just thinking about it, something about like readers
and the red that, like it's just that's what it's
all about, you know, Like we're all just trying to
figure out this thing called life and if we can
just reach out and touch a couple of people and
help them, especially through our passions, Yes, I think that's like, yeah,

(01:09:43):
has your business impacted a bunch of people? Yeah, absolutely,
You're employing people, you're giving them a job, and that
is fulfilling, right, But then to be able to do
that with a passion, I think.

Speaker 3 (01:09:52):
It's it's different. It's absolutely different. There's absolutely nothing like that. No, yeah, yeah,
it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
Like when someone yeah, I mean with someone when I
get text being like hey man, listen to your full
three hour podcast, I'm like, first of all, why you
must be really boring, but thank you, you know, and
it means a lot and yeah, you're all right. For
people that haven't experienced that yet, it is a surreal feeling.

(01:10:18):
Like for me when I like my asims for me,
Like when I interviewed NASCAR driver dani Ka Patrick, like
I was sitting across Rod like this, and I watched
her growing up in nask being a NASCAR driver and
then do go Daddy commercials and this, and all of
a sudden, I'm sitting next to her. It was like,
you know, this is insane, like just like like I

(01:10:40):
can't even fathom I'm an insurance sales guy.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
What am I doing here?

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
And then like last week when I was in my
sponsor shoutout parlor sponsoring this episode by the way, when
we were in their studios in Dallas, and I was
sitting across from an ex NFL athlete. There's a Super
Bowl winning champion played for the Steelers, and this is
like the nerdy but like these are the in Roethlisberger,
Troy and Palamal like all the people that I grew
up watching. I'm not even a Steelers fan. By'm a

(01:11:05):
football fan. And he was just talking about yeah, man,
Like this guy told me in the locker room he
was my mentor. All this stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:11:11):
I'm like, how am I talking?

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
You know, it is just a surreal thing to be
able to like your passion like when your passion actually
like turns out into something more it is, it's an
incredible thing for you. Like, are you doing any type
of like in person book signing or are you doing
anything like that that people locally Michigan could me.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
I've never known it before. I am trying to actually
put a lot of effort to the marketing. So for
this one, I will be doing something. I'm getting ready
to reach out some local bookstores to try to set
that up. I have a few kind of things I've
been thinking about, but I.

Speaker 2 (01:11:39):
Do want to do a book signing perfect multiple ones. Yeah, Okay,
so you need to be you need be confident in.

Speaker 3 (01:11:46):
This, dude, Like this is good stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
Take me on advice. I know marketing, I'm definitely I
don't really have the confidence. But I'm working on it though,
And I think, honestly, like I do really appreciate you
and I spoke with together a little bit before this
podcast and even during this podcast, I genuinely appreciate everything
you've been saying for that. Like it does it does
help give me the motivation of the compass that I
need to just put myself out there.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
So I will say, marketing yourself is so different than
marketing a business people like for for my own podcast,
consult in business, you to say, like we live the
same life, by the way, because I'm like, dude, like
I don't want to right exactly my podcast, like I'm
helping other podcasts right now and get sponsorships, and I'm like,
I don't want to promote my so, you know, like

(01:12:27):
it's been tough, and like my show is called the
Dylan England Show, talk about the most narcissistic name possible,
and I have to like, hey, what's your so called it's.

Speaker 3 (01:12:36):
My name, you know, and I have to like my
companies right now leach of Stories, and I hate it.
I'm just like why, like I need something better, Like
I just can't.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
It's not that it can't be better because that like
the branding, like it is so good. It's called leader
stores because like if people meet you, they know your name,
they can find your brand. People that meet me, they
know Dylan, They're going to find a podcast. There's intentional.
The reason why it's called the Dylan England Show is
not because I think I'm special. Because a branding expert
said you could call it, you know, coffee and business,

(01:13:06):
and it will never be found because because then it's like, hey,
what was that podcast called? Oh, his guy named Dylan?
Do you remember the name of his podcast? No?

Speaker 3 (01:13:15):
Like coffee and beer. I don't know you, Like, they
can't find it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
But if now I know anyone that meets me that
types me into Google, they'll say they'll see all of it.
And so that's why having some sort of brand consistency,
like I s so if it's your last name, for example, yeah, dude,
we know Nick, Yeah, Nick Lejo. Oh what's the right
LEGI stories, it just flows, and so I would encourage
you to keep it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:38):
This is the second bed advice should give me that.
I appreciate that. Okay, I appreciate that you can ignore
all the bad advice two good parts. It's probably more
than two.

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
I just thought that I would encourage you to keep
it because like I've thought about changing, Like I have
a sub podcast show called Here's the Dell, which is
just me talking, you know, here's the deal, but play
on here's my name, And people have already been like, hey,
what was.

Speaker 3 (01:13:58):
The name of that was? What's the deal was?

Speaker 2 (01:13:59):
Like they can't remember, right, but like they know they
did't In England, show because it just sticks so as
much as I hate saying it, Like, I went to
this event. There was like literally thirty thousand people this event,
and I had I'll show you the banner. It's here
the off somewhere, and I had to make a big banner,
like super like eight feet tall, with me printed on
the banner with the deal in England show. And I

(01:14:22):
was like standing by the banner and people would be like,
look at me, look at the banner. They're like, are
you dealing England?

Speaker 3 (01:14:29):
The one and only? That's awesome? And it was so uncomfortable,
but it was just the right, you know, it just
probably the right thing to do. I appreciate that. I
think it's good to be uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 (01:14:39):
Yes, I think it's probably a problem if you're not
uncomfortable with it, because then you probably do have an
ARC six.

Speaker 3 (01:14:47):
But oh anyway, well, man, hey, I wish you the
best with all the stuff, and my listeners do as well.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
And then shout out, guys, listen if you like reading,
if you want to try something new, and you want
to support a local Michigan business owner with that owns
a lot of businesses, anyone you know, and just help
a new writer out, not new not new writer this,
I guess in the perspective, you're still growing, you're writing,
still on emphasy stage. Yeah, but the space between us.

Speaker 3 (01:15:10):
Is now out.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
Go pick up your copy today and Bro, thanks for
coming on this episode of the podcast. Man appreciate so much.

Speaker 3 (01:15:15):
This is fun. Did you enjoy fun that?

Speaker 2 (01:15:18):
Thank you guys for coming to this episode of Dylan
England Show as always liked, comment and subscribe. Thank you
Nick for coming on and we'll see you guys on
the next episode. Peace, I appreciate you

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Building Real Empires and Imaginary Worlds with Nick Leja | Season 2 EP 3 | TDES

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Building Real Empires and Imaginary Worlds with Nick Leja | Season 2 EP 3 | TDES