How Good Companies Become GREAT: Lessons from EOS' Dave Feidner

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are going to have to change. Your identity is
going to have to change. You're not going to be
the same person, You're a different person. You have to
act your way to thinking differently. You can't think your
way to acting differently. Really, in the end of the day,
you got an enterprise, you've got a group of people,
You've got something that you're trying to achieve. There is

(00:22):
always a lot of ego. The question becomes to what
extent are they going to focus that time and energy
and effort. Are they going to have their ego for
the achievement of the thing that they're trying to do,
or is their ego all about themselves? Make the use
of the time that you have available to you. There

(00:42):
is time and effort and energy that is lost in
every organization with normalizing behavior. They have to be able
to step into that change. That's the beauty of us
because with EOS, we can do a ninety minute meeting
and it costs them absolutely nothing because the ninety minute
of their time. This is the situation that I face

(01:03):
with every single leadership team that I meet.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Is that why you do what you do For those
that just don't know really quick, what's EOS just quick,
just overview, just so people know what that is and
we can just go wherever we want to go.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah. So there's fewer people these days that who don't
know this because it's out there and it's become a standard.
But in essence, it's just an operating system for running
a company. It is the framework by which that company
is going to accomplish whatever it is that you're trying

(01:39):
to accomplish. A set of tools that create a set
of habits that can then be adopted by the entire
organization and as a result, get that organization all energy
moving in the same direction. What a wonderful concept day.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, I mean everyone's like, that sounds good, we probably
need that. And what was your first exposure to EOS?
Where'd you first? Where did it first come across your doorstep?

Speaker 1 (02:07):
The first time I was that I came into my consciousness.
EOS had to do with a small company that was
in need of assistance that I got introduced to. And
they're the ones who introduced me to EOS and said
that they were reading this book called Traction, and so
I decided to read it as well, and it brought

(02:32):
forth to me memories of similar things that I had done.
I got introduced to the Rockefeller habits Burne Harness's book,
primarily because I had hired entrepreneurs, several individuals who were
YPO members, for example, and they had introduced me to
that concept, and I used it in my companies, not

(02:56):
in quite the same homogeneous way that EOUS came together,
so conceptionally, it was very familiar with the concepts and
it was a revelation to see that they had all
been packaged together into something that closed the loop on
some of the execution issues that I had trying to
do this stuff for myself.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
And you were an entrepreneur before you become an implementer, right,
Oh yeah, so tell me about that. I don't know.
This is what's fun for me because I don't know
really about your story at all. So for those that
don't know, really quick, an EOS implementer goes in and
you help educate companies on these processes, teach them, and
you just become a full on mentor support coach, whatever
you want to say, for companies. And it's it's a

(03:40):
it's a nationwide success right now us, it's globally, it's globally,
I mean it's Gino Wickman and created it. And since
it's just blown up, and my audience knows Mike Cruy,
Mike's been on and so they have a little bit
familiar So that's what you do now. You go into
companies that and you help them out with a mix
of your experience and eos. But I want to talk

(04:00):
about your story. So you've owned companies, you've done things.
What was the first company, like, what was your first
entrepreneurial adventure story?

Speaker 1 (04:09):
Well, the very first one was my newspaper route over.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, he's done it earlier.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
That was age eleven. That was buying newspapers for I
think ten cents or fifteen cents and selling them for
a quarter. That's age eleven, So call that nineteen seventy
one ish when I was doing that. That's that was
just I don't know, that seemed very natural to me

(04:37):
and I did similar things. But really I to get
into entrepreneurism at a level of scale that didn't come
until much later. That didn't come until I was almost
forty years old. But primarily I got myself into a

(04:58):
relationship with a family business and got to know them
so well and got to help them build their business
so well that I convinced them to let me take
them global, which I did and ended up launching and
building a dozen companies in Europe and Latin America. Wow.
And that's when it started to get serious. But that was,

(05:22):
you know, just like thirty years ago probably when that started,
and it was scaling an organization and learning how to
deal with different cultures and different levels of experience and
just the complexity of building something. In my case, it
meant in some cases going into a country and starting

(05:44):
from scratch, in some cases going in and buying an
existing build business and then integrating it with the other businesses.
So it was a wonderful lesson in learning how to
organize and scale an organization that today has thousands of
employees and is the largest provider of its kind. It's

(06:05):
a company that provides inventory accounting services to retailers and
it's the biggest in the world. Wow. Well, armies of
people going out in the stores and enabled with technology
to do this efficiently. That's what the business was sold
it to The Blackstone Group, did a private equity transaction

(06:27):
and coming out of that ended up continuously running into
people who needed help. And that's where I found these
guys and got introduced to the concept of traction and
then fell in love with it and said, you know,
I know a lot of people who need this, and
it started to be, you know, my path.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
When did you start? You was how old were you
when you became an implementer?

Speaker 1 (06:52):
So this would have been in nine in twenty eighteen,
so I was fifty eight.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Well okay, and when did you And you said you
started like your entrepreneur entrepreneur journey later in life, right.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, Wow, that's when the ones in the money. That's
when they were serious money at stake. Earlier there was not,
but yeah, that then the money.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
Started to be And were you working with the same
company pretty much your whole career or what did you do?

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (07:15):
So your whole career.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
Brokoff created a separate entity and then did a transaction
then ultimately split the companies up later on. So the
original company, the US business, no longer exists its original format,
and the international business is essentially the one that remained.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
So you did you go to college?

Speaker 1 (07:41):
I did?

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, And so is this what you did right out
out of college?

Speaker 1 (07:45):
It started doing it when I was still in college.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Wow, yeah, Okay, that's incredible, And you said it wasn't
until you were in your forties that things actually started, like.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Late thirties, early forties when things started to During that
period of time, I was just traveling the world, and
so I was on a plane pretty much every Sunday
night or Monday morning, sometimes Monday night, and I would
be coming back, you know, a week later, weeks later.

(08:15):
And I had a wife and three young kids.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
So how was that?

Speaker 1 (08:20):
It was challenging. I was a road warrior, for sure,
and eventually it just made sense for all of us
to move to Europe, and so moved the family to
London and ended up spending a lot of years there
with the kids growing up in universities.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, how was that?

Speaker 1 (08:40):
That was great? Yeah, best city in the world. Yeah.
I lived there when I was a kid for a
while and then got to live there again and work
there for the better part of ten years.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
And it was just very convenient. It's a great place,
it's a good lie launching ad to the rest of
the world. And so it was it was it was always.
It was also taxing because one of the challenges with
living in London, particularly if you're associated with American company,

(09:15):
which I was and had private equity backers who are
primarily based in New York Is your day would sort
of start towards the Asian you know time frame, because
they were already up and running, and so now it's
you know, I'm hitting the ground running at seven o'clock
in the morning British time. Well, the Americans would then

(09:38):
wake up around you know, and start kicking off around noon,
and so then they would have generally not a lot
of respect for the fact that you've already been working
for eight hours, and then you'll get pulled into meetings
that go, you know, till nine or ten o'clock night.
So it is it can be very taxing from an
energy management standpoint, being in London and having operations spread

(10:03):
around the world. So managing my energy was a big
challenge for me. But what about But I was younger,
and so.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Were you traveling less when you were in London?

Speaker 1 (10:17):
I know, I was still traveling. It was I thought
I would cure this, And what it ended up being
was pretty much then me leaving from there and jumping
on the Eurostar and heading to Paris and then going
to Cologne and Milan or some other place and then
I would circle back there. At least I had some

(10:38):
agreements with my wife. I would always be home Thursday night,
so I would usually work from home on Friday, and
then there was lots of kid activities on the weekends.
That usually meant soccer tournaments in Europe and things like that.
So we were traveling a lot as a family as well.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
And you said you said a phrase that was interesting.
You said London was the best city of the world.
I haven't heard too many people say London's the best
city in the world.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah, well, for me it is.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
So what makes you love London so much? Like the city, like,
why do you enjoyed so much?

Speaker 1 (11:10):
I think I was nine years old when I lived
there as a kid, and I fell in love with it.
It was the first city outside of my hometown that
I really spent much time in, and so some of
it was just born from that. Some of it was
perhaps that era when I was a kid, So it was,
you know, sixty nine seventy, That's when I was living there,

(11:33):
and so there was a lot going on. It was
an interesting time to be there, and so when I
went as an adult, the city had evolved considerably. It
had become you know, a major one of the major
back to what it really always had been, the major
global market for finance, and a gateway to Europe as well,

(12:02):
not and obviously no longer part of the European Union,
but there on the doorstep, and you know, it's a
gateway to the rest of the world. So that was
one of the things what I remembered so much when
I was growing up and living there, was going by
the travel agent shops and the airline shops and you

(12:23):
would see, you know, flights to Singapore and you would say,
you you felt more like from here, you can go
to any place in the world, which I grew up
in Burlington, Vermont, and you did not feel that way
in that right, So that that was that was a
lot of it really just stems from that.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah, I know, stereotype for the British is their food sucks.
That's what weed America always joke like they boil everything, right,
that's a common There's.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
A lot of bad food, but there's a lot of
good food.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
So there is some bad food that is a true stereotype.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yes, I don't I you would probably, I mean you
can find it. Certainly, there's some there's some pubs that
I've eaten and that I did not things did not
go for so well. But for the most part, you
have really good cuisine because it's from all over the world.
I mean, you've got Indian food that is basically British

(13:21):
Indian food that is incredible, and you have a curry
shop and almost every town in that country, so there's
there's good food. Certainly you will never have to worry
about not getting good food in that country.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, I've been in London once. So I've been in
London once. Yeah, and it was only for a twelve
hour layover when we were on our way to Africa.
So you said as connectors like, you know, yes, so
we're on our way to Tanzania, Africa, and we ate McDonald's.
So that's the only because we had a twelve hour
as if I was young, I was like, you know,
my parents were. We were just trying to survive, you know,
just got a little bit of a So we saw
Big Bin, we saw a couple of the other sites,

(14:00):
you know, and then we found McDonald's and we ate that,
you know, true American, you know, classic and the other tie.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
I understand McDonald's was good in the UK as well,
is it it's probably better I have not had McDonald's
or probably any fast food in this decade. It's been
five thirty here or since. Probably why you look so
good anything that would be.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
While you still have hair.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
Honestly, there is a benefit.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah, I mean it could be the other connection that
I have to London. And enough was from Mexico. So
we were into Loom and we met this wonderful lady
that was just vacationing and we just became friend. Me
and my wife became friends with her. And she was young,
she was like but she was a black girl with
a strong British accent, and so you know, you just
weren't expecting that. You know, that's unique. And we're like,

(14:52):
where are you from. She's like, you know, I'm from London.
You know it's probably terrible, but you know, for the
story's sake, if I have a terrible accent, forgive me.
And she's like, I'll have a And she has a
bakery in London and she owns it and she just
travels the world when she's not running, you know, she
has people that run her bakery or whatever. And yeah,
I think she followed my wife on Instagram and I'll
see if I'll see if I can send it to
you see if you know, if you've been there before.

(15:13):
But yeah, we just randomly met someone into loom that
owns a bakery in London. Yeah, so she's like, if
you ever come to London, please come say hi.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
You know. Well, it's also there's another good reason it's
a great entrepreneurial city. When I look at where EO
chapters are around the world, that is a very thriving
EO chapter. That's a pretty good indication that you get
a pretty thriving entrepreneurial environment in London.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
Is different in the city in the States. How is
it different or is it do you think better city
than a lot of the ones in the States to
be an entrepreneur.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
If I were to do city by city comparisons, I
don't know. It's hard to beat being in a place
that has that much access to talent and people from
all over the world. So those are advantages London absolutely has.

(16:13):
There is the time zone element. If you're trying to
build an organization on a global basis and you need
to be connected to Asia and North America, it's a
great place to do that.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
From Yeah, I never thought about that before.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yes, it's it's a lot of it. You know, you
could probably list a whole bunch of things that would
that would make it a top place for entrepreneurism and
then get into the comparison game. I don't know. We're
here here, we are in Detroit. You know what another
great mecca for entrepreneurism is right here in Detroit for

(16:47):
a whole whole host of other reasons.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah, I mean also talk about a cultural melting pot,
and Detroit's Detroit has to be up there, I would
think with other major cities. I mean, I just feel
like we have an insane melting pot here.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah. You feel it, you see it. You say you
feel it, you see it. It's you know, the there
was there still is an industry here called the automotive
industry that was a big attraction and is still central
to that entire industry. So you're you're in a place
that at least one industry or more has a foundation.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
In m It's true.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
I always think it's interesting going through ham Trammick and
you see the double decker houses at the Polish Yeah,
And I'm like, I always wondered, like, do you where
did they go? Because they're like there were all the
Polish people built all those houses in hand Trammick. And
I've never no one's ever told me like what happened to.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
What happened to the Polish?

Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, because there's aren't there thousands of houses.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
I assume that there's still there. Many of them are there,
but many people are not. In Detroit.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, it's moved out.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Generations have moved on to uh, to other stuff. Yeah,
and it's just part of the melting pot of America.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah, it's just interesting that those style of homes just stop,
like if it's like justin ham Trammick, like they didn't
build like even if they left, those homes are just
kind of just they all got built in one time
and then that's it, Like those weird double decker houses. Yes,
it's weird.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, well it happens, right, and then gentrification occurs. Somebody
discovers the neighborhood and they start changing it and recreating
it for something else.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
And that's part of life, I guess, right, mm hmm. Yeah,
that's interesting. Yeah, I never we're just in ham Trammick
for Detroit.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
F C game.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Have you been to Detroit f C? The song I
have not? Yeah, yeah, it's wild, it's wild. Yes, yes,
smoke bombs. Oh so where did they play in ham Trammick?

Speaker 1 (18:44):
Okay, but what's the field?

Speaker 2 (18:46):
I don't remember. Uh, it's a it's this little field
behind let's see, uh Detroit. You see Detroit f C.
The arena it is called Keyworth Stadium, Okay, And it's

(19:10):
a small little stadium. It kind of rids you of
like a glorified like high school football, like a nice
high school football whatever. Nice, but it's it's uh, it is.
It's interesting for two reasons. And I mean there's some
smoke bombs, like so whenever we score like they were crazy.
They're The two things that struck me were number one,

(19:31):
all the cheers had swear words in them, which was
very unique because normally in sports, you know arenas, they don't.
But in here it was like every cheer had like
an F bomb in it, and you had like three
thousand people just cheering it. So that was a different experience, okay,
you know, because I wasn't used to that. And the
second thing that was very interesting about De Trinifice. It

(19:54):
is very politically left visually really like very clear, like
they had signs all over the stadium. That's like it's
okay to punch Nazis like like I mean like unbelievably
left leaning, but like in your face, like and normally
in those types of places, you're like like you know

(20:15):
they might have like, hey, we believe this, but like
it is like like the banners across were like the
most like insane.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
You know, So how many times have you gotten to
see this?

Speaker 2 (20:26):
Once? Well twice twice. Yeah, I went. I went like
ten years ago and none of this stuff existed. I
just went two weeks ago, and it was like I
was walking into San Francisco or something like. Its just
some it was, And it's weird because it's in the
middle of ham Tramick, which is a very highly densitied
Arabic community. Yeah, so it's just really weird. Man, It's

(20:47):
really weird. But I'm like, I'm like, it's it was
just so unique that a sports team has like taken
up a political cause, and that was just what was
unique about that situation. I'll probably I'll flash up some
big I'll show some picture later, but it was like, yeah,
like I'm like you can believe whatever you want to leave.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
You don't see sports and politics, not tons, not tons
politics and sports.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
Here you do. It was but it was wild, man.
I mean, like I've never seen because it was all
in the cheering section, but I've just never seen that
many like signs towards one. I got it, Like, you know,
I was just in Texas. You don't see a bunch
of like crazy conservative signs on sports, you know, you
just don't see it like I see you do. So
that I just thought that was unique. Like I just

(21:31):
wasn't expecting to go to a sports game to just
get politicized everywhere. It's just a unique it's a unique choice.
But apparently it's just who the owner. I guess maybe
who the owners are. I don't really know, Like I
don't know. It's just wild.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
It sounds like it sounds like something that would be
fun to experience.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
You should go. Yeah, one hundred percent, I should go.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
I'm doing it.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, come with me, I'll take you.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Sometime, right.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
That sounds fun.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
Let's make a date of it.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
It's very fun. Yeah. But the thing I love about
it too is they have all these foods, a bunch
of it's just fun. It's it's fun. And people that
have never experienced ham Trammick before you could experience ham Trammick.
Which is it really is like walking through a Middle
East country. Yeah, it really is. And so that's just
so unique.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
I did.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
I had a lot of work in ham Trammick actually
at a church there a couple of summers ago and
I was there every single weekend doing works in the parks.
And yeah, we actually visited a couple of mosques talk
to them and all that kind of stuff. So ham
tram I was there for a long time. So ham
Trammick is a very unique My buddy was he was
because he's from Georgia, you know, so he's not used

(22:34):
to the melting pot that we have here. You know,
you go through Dearborn and Dearborn, there's multiple city streets
that it's just Arabic. You know, they're not used to
that in Georgia, right, and here we're just like, dude,
they have amazing Mediterranean food, Like this is awesome, you
know what I mean. But like in ham Trammick, it's
even more dense. And he's like, I've never seen so
many women in Burgers in my life. He's just he couldn't.

(22:56):
It was just such a unique experience for him.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Dell, you're from here originally, right, and I'm from Ohio.
You're from Ohio, yes, yeah, the other side of the border.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, but I but my dad grew up in Michigan
and all my family grew up Michigan. So I grew
up a Michigan fan in Ohio. Okay.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
So well when I moved, I did an internship in
like twenty sixteen called Spread the Word. It's a it's
a church planning internship and basically part of the internship
was learning different cultures, going and experiencing them. And so
one of those was ham Trammick. Yeah, so we spend
a whole summer in ham Trammick just learning the culture,
learning who the people are, meeting the locals.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Did you eat well, yeah, yeah, it's very good.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yeah. Ham Trammick was great. And there's a church guy
named Jay Searcy pastors a church called Grace in ham Trammick,
and he lives in ham Trammick. Nice and he's just
a great guy. And so they just do like they
just do like a church in the park thing every Saturday,
or they play volleyball or whatever and hang out with
everyone and then surprisingly like just very amicable. Everyone plays
like it's fun. The locals play like it's great.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Sam Trammick. As an entry point into cultural thesity in
your life, how about that?

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yes, very And when you when you when you drive
on is it Caniff? Is that how you say? I
think it's Kaniff. It's the main road there, but it's
it's like it does feel it's unique because there's just
no English. It is just a unique thing. But anyway,
oh no, god, that's subject but Detrot you should go,

(24:23):
but don't be surprised. I will not be taking my
three year old.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
That is. I thought it was going to be the
subject of living in an environment where people do not
speak English.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, I mean that's the thing with this podcast. We
go there's not really a set place that we go. Yeah,
I mean you you and you live with that, right
because you traveled the world and you had to deal
with multiple languages and dialects in that Because how did
you do that before Google Translate? Like how did you
make that?

Speaker 1 (24:50):
What was the so there was I'm trying to remember
what the tool was that I used. Now, it wasn't Advocate.
I forget the name.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Oh yes, it's like a learning thing.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, so it was before Google really had it. I
mean today everything is AI enabled anyway, But back then
I can't remember what the tool that I used other
But beyond that, I was just I try. I worked
on French mastery because that was my second language, and
I grew up with it because when I grew where

(25:25):
I grew up was just south of the border with Quebec.
So for me, we started learning French when I was
in kindergarten and I tried very much to make that
my second language when I lived in Europe, so I
got tutored in French. I attempted to do my business

(25:47):
meetings in French. I did the best I could.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
How is your French now very rusty? But when you travel,
do you still try to?

Speaker 1 (25:59):
It's amazing because all of a sudden, like nouns, verbs,
various phrases start to come back into your into your consciousness.
And I found that I was in Paris for a
week in November, and I had friends who had never
been there before, so kind of going around to places

(26:21):
that I were very familiar to me and then just
starting to pick the language back up. I figured, okay,
I would another week or two would probably be good.
Unfortunately wasn't enough time to really get the habit back.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
And you find that you can't understand more than you
can speak.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
Like, yes, definitely, because there's the I still process, so
I still have to try. I can't think really in French,
so I still have to go through the okay, what
did they say? Okay, that means this.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
In England and then translate gotcha when you if you
were in Because I've never been to France, and I've
heard that they can be rude it to Americans sometimes.
I don't know if that's true. If I don't know
if you found that to be true or not, like
just French people in general, like don't love Americans.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yeah, I have found that not to be the case. Actually,
what I find is a cultural misconception creates that perception
more than anything else, and it just literally has to
do with how we communicate. And the language is part
of the culture. So what you speak you bring into

(27:40):
an exist into existence, So the subtleties of language are
meaningful in daily interactions, so particularly in France. Yeah, so
you start by saying bonjour, and you there's always an
opening to a conversation that in America sometimes we have

(28:05):
a we're very informal about these things, right, and we'll
just dive in and start talking. But there's there's like
a there's a sort of a recognition of the existence
of the other person that comes with the language. So
boujeour was always important, and mercy uh and ci ple.

(28:27):
So just a couple of words that are just used
so often that we don't realize our lack of using
them comes to pass as arrogant or not an arrogant,
but just you know, not courteous, and then you get

(28:48):
a natural reaction to that, which you then take is rude.
So that I have learned that it's mainly if you
just bend a little bit and understand what the environment
is that you're in, and that the language has an
important aspect of creating the environment that you're in, a

(29:09):
couple of words will go a long way to.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Just show respect. It's interesting. Africa is the same way too,
So but Africa there's another I don't know if there's
it's like this in France, but so jambo is in Swahili,
jombo means high. It's it's the greeting, right, But I
would never say, well maybe now that I'm older, but
like if my two year old, I mean she's very young,
let's say that seven year old whatever, she would never

(29:33):
say jombo to you because that you're an elder or
to me at this point, so she would say something
called hickamo and then you would reply with malahaba. So
when I was in Africa, I was like twelve, so
I wasn't allowed to say jombo unless an elder said
jombo to me first. Right, then they broke the barrier.

(29:54):
They said it. Now I can say it back to them.
But if it was anyone older than eighteen, I would
have to say say chickamo. Then they would respond with malahaba.
And that was That was just me saying hi. But
it was like high with respect, you know. But so
that was But in America are just like what's up,
you know. So it's a difference. It's just completely difference.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
It's literally built into the language. The language is a
reflection of the culture, and then the language and the
culture then reinforces the language, and so it's interwoven into
that and you have to be able to sort of
reframe your reference point when you're to really to understand

(30:39):
what it means to be in a different culture. And
when I think about culture, I think about belonging. You know,
if there is a feeling of belonging that your energy
matches the energy of the people around you, right, that
that's essentially what it feels like to be to be
an integral part of a culture, which could get me

(31:02):
onto the EOS subject very quickly.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Let's do it. Let's jump in because this.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Is the battle that is going on in every single
company that I work with. It is understanding that there
is this collection of people and we can think of
them from a matter standpoint, but really what we're talking
about is their energy. So go to the other side

(31:28):
of the Einstein equation and just get your head wrapped
around that. You're talking about harnessing human energy, and so
when that energy is misaligned, you have what I would
call a normal situation, something that is very easily normalized
because you see it all the time. Okay, you may

(31:50):
be a frustrated entrepreneur that people are being a certain
way within your company, and you'll hear when you complain
and talk to other people people about that, Oh yeah,
me too, or yeah, that's just the way life is
or whatever. Right, so we normalize the hell out of
this stuff. But really, in the end of the day,

(32:11):
you got an enterprise, you've got a group of people,
you've got something that you're trying to achieve. How do
you get those energies aligned and moving in the same direction? Right, So,
in the end of the day, EOS tools are just
a set of tools to reinforce what is there that
is truly good and wholesome about that organization and getting

(32:35):
it amplified and getting with a set of tools a
methodology to continuously keep the energy moving in the right direction.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
Why do you think this is such a struggle for people?

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Just because we live on stories. You know, our life
is made up of stories. We have a we put
on a character every single day, and it becomes so
normalized that we think that that thing, that set of

(33:09):
behaviors is just the way things are, and we don't
even you know, we don't sometimes just a lack of
awareness of how we're showing up and what you really
are forced to do when you were using the tools
of EOS in an organization is to deal with the

(33:30):
reality of how you are showing up every day. It
brings you, It brings you back towards living in virtue.
I guess is the best way to describe it. Because
you can talk about human individual human behavior. Everything is
always on one end of the spectrum mode or the other.

(33:50):
There's an excess of this, there's a deficiency of that.
Where is the you know, where is good human behavior? Right?
It's that optimum mean? And then when you put a
bunch of them together in an organization, Now, how do
you accomplish that same thing towards a greater good? Which
is the good that is being accomplished by these people

(34:12):
working together?

Speaker 2 (34:14):
Has with that being said, has there been like characteristic
traits that you founded CEOs that generally have good company cultures,
like the company cultures that are like solid good. What
character traits have you found to be common among CEOs
that have good company cultures?

Speaker 1 (34:31):
So let's take great company cultures? Okay, So I'll use
that example. Because the research was done and it was
Jim Collins and his team, and they did the research
in the book Good Together Great, So thousands of organizations
that they looked at. They got it down to this
group of eleven that met the criteria, and every single
one of them had this leadership trait that they referred

(34:55):
to as level five leadership. The individual at the top
of the organization had that combination of determined focus towards
the greater good for the organization and personal humility. So
that combination of just driving the organization towards focus, achieving

(35:22):
whatever that objective is that the organization had for itself
that greater good, while at the same time paradoxically having
this level of personal humility. It's not about me. For example,
that characteristic existed in every one of those companies, and
when they compared them, they did this matched par analysis.

(35:44):
So they would take, Okay, here's a company this industry,
this scale. Here's another company that industry that scale, going
through essentially the same macroeconomic conditions. This one's got these characteristics,
this one's got this characteristic, and they smoked out from
that many examples of CEOs with big egos, and they

(36:09):
were in many cases able to sustain some kind of
great performance for a period of time. The more it
was dependent upon them, the more it fell apart immediately
after they were out. So not a lot of great
succession planning in those cases, frankly, and some wonderful stories

(36:31):
about that. So personal humilities, level five leadership that was
That's the characteristic and that's the one that I do
my best to teach my leadership teams to embrace.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
Is it easy when you go into a leadership team
to be like, all right, like you can just see
exactly if a CEO is acting that way? Because you
know how everyone puts on a farce, like everyone acts
a certain way. And how easy is it for you
to determine if a CEO has those all five qualities?
Or does it take some time to get to know them?

(37:04):
And like how when does that become apparent.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
That every single one of them? So I've one of
the things that I've discovered about myself is the ones
that I am uniquely designed to serve and they tend
to be very purpose driven and very hampitious people. So
there is always a lot of ego. The question becomes

(37:30):
to what extent are they going to you know, focus
that time and energy and effort. Are they going to
have their ego for the for the achievement of the
thing that they're trying to do, or is their ego
all about themselves, and there's always a bit of a

(37:51):
battle going on between those two things, because when it's
about yourself, really it's taking care of your psyche, and
you have to realize your psyche exists, is a thing,
and it's mainly about creating an awareness around how that
makes you show up. Because to take a company from

(38:11):
good to great, you are going to have to change.
Your identity is going to have to change. So for me,
I'm looking for can the person's identity change? Are they
willing to transform themselves through the process of transforming an organization,
because it happens, and you have to be ready for it.

(38:35):
You're not going to be the same person that you
were as CEO of a five million dollar organization, you know,
revenue wise, relatively small company versus a fifty or five
hundred million. You'll be a different person. You'll be there'll

(38:56):
be an element of view that is always the same
and it's a truer, deeper level of yourself and you'll
let go of a lot of the superfluous stuff. And
that's the hard part because with that comes an identity
that exists today that you have to be comfortable with

(39:16):
letting go of.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
I'm trying to think of Oh, it's called self sabotaging. Yes,
and that's I think something I struggle with a lot.
I think if I had it, if I had to, like,
what's one thing I do a lot? And I think
it's my self sabotage a lot. And I'm learning that
and I think it's what's like, like, so, and you've

(39:40):
heard of self sabotage before, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Yeah, can you define guilty of it?

Speaker 2 (39:44):
Define? Like, what is self sabotage?

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Self sabotage is literally I mean my definition of it
is some habit or behavior that is very Sometimes it
could be even nostalgic. I don't know. It's a part
of me that has existed for a long time and

(40:08):
it may not be serving me anymore, but there's a
comfort level to it.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
Yeah, And.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
So I'll use an example, and this one's a real
simple one. For me, I will read a shitload of books,
and sometimes that obsession with reading books can be to excess,
and then I'm not doing the things that I need

(40:43):
to be doing or should be doing. And so there
is a there's an identity element that comes with me
being more balanced, for example, in that habit, and you
can apply to any number of It's like I have,
there's some habit that you're holding onto that feels very
comforting because you've done it for a very long time,

(41:06):
but also is because of the excess of it getting
in the way of you doing something else. So you
might get yourself into a zone where you're just crushing it.
You know, you get your habits dialed in, you get
your behaviors dialed in, and then you'll slip a little
bit and then before you know it, you've gotten like
thirty degrees off and you've got to then pull the

(41:32):
energy back and get yourself back on track. So the
self sabotage is the willingness to let that thing happen.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
And I think it takes a lot of different forms too,
because some mindset, Yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Some people will it will be along the lines of
who am I kidding myself? For example, in the extreme case,
which means, you know, I am just this. I am
my identity is tied to every single stinking thing that
happened to me to this point in my life and

(42:07):
whatever story I've got going in my head about that.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Ye.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
So that is a habit of behavior that stops a
person from going over the line into discussion.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Because they almost they almost. Then I speak from experience
because I live this, I live this with and you
can also call this it's a plane. No I thought
I heard the plane. You could also heard this, like
when I when I started the podcast, right, and all
of a sudden, I'm like interviewing really cool people and

(42:43):
it's growing, Like I have this thought of like, dude,
who am I kidding? Like I'm just an insurance guy, right,
And then when it comes to businesses, like I've done
a lot of things that I've re less self, sabotage
myself to protect myself. So like the insurance business was
really good then COVID destroyed it. Then since then, it's

(43:03):
just been just a grind and I find myself living
in the mindset of like, you know what, if I'm
poor the rest of my life and at least I
have my family, I'm okay, which is a good mindset
to be, Like I'm glad. I just want my family
that God's given me and money doesn't affect my happiness, right,

(43:24):
so I'm grateful for that. But then on the flip side,
I think I use it as a protection of like
a suit, like like assuming that I'm probably not going
to be successful financially. And that's changed because if you
would have met me when I first got married, I
would have told you I'd been a millionaire by thirty year.
You know, I was hungry, ambitious, And now just because
we've gone through I think it feels like a seven

(43:45):
year valley that it's like hard to believe again that
like you know, in every cause, you know, when you
live in the hamster wheel, you know, I'm getting raw
at least of my wife and I talk about when
you live in the hamster wheel, you always feel you're
running but never actually getting anything. Eventually, you just self
sabotage yourself to just never believe you're actually gonna get
out of the hamster wheel. Yeah, and you kind of

(44:06):
protect yourself in a way to like not hope. And
so I realized I was doing that probably about six
months ago, where I was just kind of like, you know,
I'm probably just gonna do interest to rest of my
life is probably gonna be a struggle. We're probably not
gonna have much. It is what it is. And I'm like,
this is very unhealthy mindset because if I want to

(44:28):
grow and want to be an entrepreneur. I can't just
be like, oh it was me blah blah blah. Like
and so now that we're building a media company, like
I have to fight every day in my mindset of
like I still faced out of like who am I kidding?
Building a podcast coaching company, you know? So I fight
that daily like that is a big struggle for me,
that mindset shift.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
So there's this saying that you have to act your
way to thinking differently. You can't think your way to
acting differently. And I guess the best way to describe
this is just recognizing that your mind is always going
and it is rationalizing things right and left, and it's

(45:15):
creating all kinds of logical reasons for you doing things
a certain way, and generally it's doing the job that
your psyche has designed it to do, which is to
prevent you from doing things that are comfortable. Right. So
have I described this to one of my clients recently,

(45:35):
And it's an individual who's incredibly purpose driven and incredibly
over the top ambitious who self destructs on a regular basis.
And we had a conversation about that and I said,
it's kind of like recognizing that that self destructive thing.

(45:55):
That behavior or set of behaviors is not really you.
That's the construction of you. And then you've been complicit
in the creation of it. But it exists. And so
when you're inspired, it's like, I have this World War
One in the trench's analogy in my head. It's the

(46:19):
troops going over the top, right, going over the top
and going almost into certain glory or death. Right, that
kind of thing. Well, your psyche's the guy who is
in the fox hole pulling you back from doing that,
all right, And it makes perfect logical sense that they
would do that because the chances are you're going to die.

(46:42):
But the reality is it's trying. Not just the chances
are that you're going to die. There's certainty that you're
going to die. Every human being who has ever lived
died eventually, right, So it is recognizing that that thing
is there, and you're that reality exists for every one
of us. So make the use of the time that

(47:04):
you have available to you. Yeah, and thank you very much,
Psyche for protecting me. But every now and then I
have to go over the top. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Some Nick Nick and I talked a lot about is
being uncomfortable and living in the uncomfortable, Yeah, and really
striving for that uncomfortable, you know. And if you're not uncomfortable,
then you're, like he used the analogy of working out.
If you're not putting stress in your muscles and you're
not whatever, then you're probably just getting fat. Yeah, you know,
and it's a good It's like if things are very comfortable,

(47:36):
then that should be a red flag of like, I'm
not growing, you know, because a lot of times growth
equals uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Yeah. I was doing some work this morning with the
change equation. Are you familiar with that? What it takes
to get a human being to change a behavior, And
the formula is really simple. It is the change is
equal to excuse me, change needs to be greater than resistance,

(48:08):
or the elements have changed need to be greater than resistance.
So on one side of the equation is resistance with a
big R, and on the other side of the equation
are the elements. So number one is dissatisfaction, so that
has to exist to some extent for you to change
your behavior. There also has to be vision, and this

(48:31):
is an important part that's often missing, a perspective of
what it actually looks like on the other side. And
then the third thing is a first step, an action
as simple as possible that can actually be taken. So
the way the equation works, it's, you know, a greater
sign on one side of the equation. When you've got

(48:51):
those things to an extent that you can overcome whatever
the resistance is, you have change, you have forward motion.
The vision piece is often missing for individuals because they
are become so so habituated, the habits are so well

(49:12):
laid down, they have the inability to imagine what it
looks like differently and as a result, okay, you just
status quo. Seems to make sense to me. Yes, right,
no vision, no change. The other thing is you could
have a vision, it could be articulated for you, and

(49:32):
you could have gone through an exercise where okay, I
do want that, right, that is clear, that's better than
this thing that I'm dissatisfied with, but I have no
idea how to do it, and it just seems hard
or complex. You don't have that first step, and therefore
you can overcome the resistance. All right. This is the

(49:52):
situation that I face with every single leadership team that
I meet. They have to be able to step into
that change, and it means they have to get real
about what they are saying that they want of this organization.
They have to bring agreement and commitment at the leadership

(50:15):
level around that thing, because without it, that's a big
zero in the vision box. And if the equation is
this times this times this, it has to be greater
than that. Zero times anything is zero.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Yes, yes, So.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
You have to help bring forth what that vision is
and really get them to see it. That part is critical.
It's usually there, they just are not talking about it.
And Frank's got a perspective on it, and An's got
a different perspective, and you know it has not been debated,

(50:52):
discussed and resolved. You also have to give them that
first step. And that's the thing that's the beauty of
us because with EOA, we can do a ninety minute
meeting and it costs them absolutely nothing. It costs them
ninety minutes of their time, which they can easily easily
eat up on a given day, just with the amount
of time that they are complaining about the existing situation.

(51:16):
Right there is time and effort and energy that is
lost in every organization with normalizing behavior that you see
around you and saying that's just the way people are
and this is the way things are. And yes, you know,
Tony's not great at doing his job, but he's been

(51:36):
loyal to us, and it's just energy and effort that
gets lost on that stuff and therefore is not being
utilized to overcome the obstacles that are in front of us.
So really it's getting them prepared to be their virtuous

(51:56):
best as leaders, which is always a good thing, and
it generally has the benefit of improving their personal lives
as well. So they have to be ready for that
kind of change.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
Yeah, And I mean, first of all, that change equation
is incredible. You know if have you looked in any
on anything that like so you have you're dissatisfied, you
have a vision, and then you take the first step.
What keeps you discipline and consistent to not just make
this a cycle.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
Usually because you have achieved, you've seen something some level
of improvement. There's something that you've seen that has given
you hope. And that's an important aspect of it. Because
the one thing about change and new habit formation is
there's this period and I don't James clear has got

(52:52):
a term for it. I can't remember what it is,
but it is that point where you've been going for
a while and you're putting in the energy and effort
of the change without yet seeing really the benefit. You
have to have some type of you have to have
some discipline and some self replicating or self reinforcing elements

(53:13):
to keep you on that path. And this, probably more
than anything else, when working with leadership teams, is what
I do as an EUS implementer, because ninety days is
the slipping point when you have a team working and
focused and they set off, they start to fray. You

(53:34):
get around day seventy eighty eighty five. I've experienced it
in my own life. I mean I just literally came
off a quarter myself where I was starting to feel
in the last week or two like I was losing
my focus. I sent a note to a friend this
morning saying, I'm just coming out of the little globe
snow globe experience, right. So it is occurring, and you've

(53:56):
got to then get them back into a room, get
aligned and agreed and clear around the past. What did
we just experience? What happened? Because people naturally create their
own stories around things, and if it was a difficult quarter,
people are gonna have different feelings about what happened, what

(54:17):
didn't happen. They might have trust issues that they need
to resolve amongst each other, and so you get them
together and get them refocused on them and you send
it back out. It's like it's like a quest. So
I bring to my work as an eos implementer philosophy, Yeah,
because that's what I love to do. Like my friends

(54:38):
call me philosopher Dave. One of the narratives that really
works for me is the hero's journey. So the work
that Joseph Campbell did and the recognition that that underlying story,
the mythologies around heroes is one hundred percent the exis

(55:00):
distant potential for every single human being on the planet.
But it is our tendency to fall into habitual patterns
of comfort that we don't go on those quests. Well,
you have an entrepreneurial company, you are by default on
that quest because that's what entrepreneurs do. And so it's

(55:23):
just a question of how how great is that thing
that you want to create? What is the impact that
you're trying to create with this with this organization, and
recognize that it's a journey to create that thing, and
some of you, including you as the founder, may not

(55:44):
be there on some day in the future when the
ultimate is achieved, but you have, You've brought this thing
into existence. So what is the cycle that keeps it
moving in that direction? Well, the cycle I like to
refer to it is the ninety day world. Wherever, single
quarter you're coming together, you are getting clearer about the story,

(56:10):
what the story is, because the story is ultimately what
you've put into your vto and is everybody agreed a
line committed to it. If not, let's do the work
to get us agreed a line committed to it, and
then what next needs to be done. Let's get singularly
focused on what the story is for the rest of

(56:30):
the organization and what those activities are going to look
like and what our commitments are. And off they go again.
So it's I get help them to go on a
new quest every quarter. It's the best way to describe it.
Until they get to the point that they they've got
it down, the habits are in place and they don't

(56:52):
need me to continue to be their guide in doing this,
and usually it takes about two years and then they're
there and they you know, they're they're on their journey
and they've they've got a new set of habits and
the organization is flowing.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
For you at that point, right when you see somebody.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Graduating them Sometimes, yes, it is in I will you know.
I I teared up with a team the other day
and it was it was in their case. It was
an interesting transition because literally the owner of the business

(57:29):
was wrapping up. We were graduating one business and we
were starting another business. I was starting an implementation with
another business business that she owned as well. So it
had been a transformative experience with the first company and
to see who they had become was incredible. So yeah,

(57:51):
sometimes it can be a bit It could be emotional.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
Is that why you do what you do?

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Yeah, I mean it's like this is the this is
literally me being me. This is I can't I don't
know of a better way to express myself other than
through doing this work.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
Last question, So Mike always talks about finding your unique ability,
like everyone has a unique ability. Yeah. He when I
was in Dallas at part like really, yeah, I was
getting ready interview. I did eight podcasts in two days
and He's like, hey man, you are in your unique
ability like lean into that and it found sounds like

(58:31):
you found your unique ability, like this ability to mentor
and coach and help. Right, what advice would you give
to people that are trying to find their unique ability?
Like how does someone find that?

Speaker 1 (58:45):
It's a different path for different individuals. I am a
strategic Coach client. I went through their program and there
is a specific set of tools called unique ability, So
you can go through through that exercise and I did
it and I have continued to refine it because that

(59:11):
I understood their approach and once I understood their approach
was it was easier to bring other elements into it. So,
for example, in the AI world, if you want to
work on your unique ability, one of the things that
you can do is get to know yourself very very well.
So I used an AI app called atbacus chat LLM,

(59:35):
and what I've put into it is my whole Strategic
Coach unique Ability framework. All the findings that came from
that work and every assessment that I've taken, so disk assessments,
cold the assessments you know, strength finders, assessments, Myers Briggs,

(59:57):
everything I threw it in there and so where I'm
at with that now, is I have. I've did a
lot of refinement of my unique ability because ultimately I'm
a philosopher, which means I tend to curate and distribute
wisdom to help people. That's ultimately what I do and

(01:00:18):
the how I do it and how best to do it.
I can simply ask the the chat LM, the bot,
and I can have it ask me questions. So right
like right now we're going through I'm doing an exercise
where I've said, Okay, what more do you need to

(01:00:40):
know about me? What kinds of questions would help you
help me? For example? And so going through that exercise,
and I don't know, this is a reality that I
think we all might end up having in the future.
So if you can imagine yourself always being in a
state of conflict between your demon and your damon, you know,

(01:01:01):
you've got an angel on one shoulder, you've got a
devil on the other shoulder. That reality exists for all
human beings. But if you had created like a digital
version of yourself, right, because sometimes it's unclear, it's not always,
but sometimes it's unclear really what the what the right
thing to do is. But you've got this literally, you've

(01:01:24):
you've built a digital version of yourself that is always
the angel. You can have that conversation with that, with
that digital version of yourself to to you know, steer
your more towards your you know, better or more virtuous side.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
I mean it's yeah, it's wild.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
I mean I use in terms of your unique ability specifically.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Searching and finding and even just having it's almost just
like having an outside person giving their thoughts on it,
you know, and it is weird, Like I use CHATGBT
in a lot of crazy ways, like in similar fashion
or like hey, like what what's missing here? If if
if you were me, what would you do in this situation?
And just to get it, it's an AI coded by

(01:02:07):
a random human somewhere right, But like just seeing a
different point of view or seeing a suggestion, I might
be like that's terrible. I don't mind, but like it's
still just it's it's storyboard. It's the opportunity to like
throw things to the wall, watch it and then workshop stuff,
and I it is it is a good tool, and
I think it's a good tool. I think you also
mentioned just chaking a lot of an like you know, uh,

(01:02:28):
test try to figure out who you are. And the
other thing I would say is just try a lot
of things, Like, just try a lot of things. You know,
earlier we were talking about being comfortable, yes, like if
you're not experiencing new things, trying things Like if I
would have never started a podcast, I would have never
had known that I had an ability to carry on
a conversation like this with a mic and camera and

(01:02:49):
all that kind of stuff like, I would have just
never know. No amount of disk assessments would have taught
me that I could do this.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Yeah, so I think, and again this is more or
of I don't know that I've ever seen your Colby assessment. Yeah,
I don't even know if Yeah, so you strike me
you feel like or at least from the conversations, we've
had to be more of a high quick start. So
someone who's reasonably comfortable with risk and uncertainty and more

(01:03:19):
likely to experiment and try different things.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Yeah, whereas my wife would agree.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
Yeah, some people like me are going to probably investigate
things a little bit more before taking action. I probably
should do more your recommendation for example of people should
try different things there are Yeah, And in fact, for

(01:03:51):
an individual who is a high quick start, that is
literally how you're going to do it. You're going to
do it that way because that's your natural, instinctive way
of doing things. And from that, you know you will
drive whatever wisdom that you drive. Other people will have
to do things differently, and I'm one of those. So

(01:04:15):
I'll dive into the books first and do some research
on that subject before I try something.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
Have you always loved reading this much? Have you always
been a reader?

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
I have always been a reader, except for when I
didn't know how to read.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
You remember, you loved books. I grew up a big reader,
and then college kind of ruined me, you know, when
you just forced to read textbooks. It kind of like
just took the joy of reading away. And so, but
my librarians came to my wedding. Oh that's how many
books I read in junior high high school. Nice because
I lived in a small town in macom, Ohio, where

(01:04:53):
I'd ride my bike or the only thing we had
to do was go to library like cornfields everywhere, you know,
so every day and it just rode my boo my
bike over to the library, got some books, you know,
read them next day. And I was a massive fiction reader.
He's a kid massive fiction reader. And that's when Nick
and I were like just nerding out over, you know,

(01:05:13):
we were we wrote what was the Red Wall?

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
Red Wall?

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
It's guy in Brian Jocks and he is he's literally
like the Dickens or the Tolkiens for for children. He's
incredible and it's it's all in this world of like.
And in fact, one of Nick's books is paying homage
to one of Brian. Which one it's the one about
the Mouse. I can't remember which one. There's a one
about the mouse that's over. I have it at my

(01:05:39):
house and I was trying to get it reading, but
I can't remember the name of it. It's about team building.
I think it's one of his ones about team building. Anyway, Uh,
we were like, I was like a kid, like I
love Red Wall as a whole series. It's basically mice
and woodland creatures. And but like the in the book,
the the author Brian would describe it's like a whole

(01:06:01):
chapter to describe a feast in a kid's book, very
detail oriented. You could taste and imagine everything, and it
was just so well written. It was like a higher
level reading for children, and it was just so well done.
And I was like one of those nerds that I'd
be back on Wikipedia as a child, like arguing in
forums on like which order you should read all of them?

(01:06:22):
But yeah, like I was a big reader, and then
I'm trying to get back into it. I'm trying to read.
I'm a big theology guy, so I love theology, and
so I enjoy reading those books.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
Have had a whole different conversation today.

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
Oh we had this listen, there's no there's we can
go wherever you want. Yeah, I'm a big theology guy.
I love theology and i love business. I've struggled to
get like I've struggled to like heavily enjoy business books
though for some reason. Yeah, like Good to Great was

(01:07:02):
a great book, but I still was like laboring through
that read. So that's been a you know, but like, yeah,
I need to get back. So I'm going to read
Nick's books and I'm excited for that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
Yeah, but it Nick's a good storyteller. The thing that
is fascinating about his books is dealing with human relations
issues and no humans in the books, not a single
human in the book. It is all done in the

(01:07:35):
natural world, and uh, just very clever. How he does
and obviously a great storyteller.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
Yeah, we had a great podcast that was fun. Well,
next time we can come and talk theology and debate
or whatever you want to do that sounds fun. I
have a buddy who is a lawyer. He's a Catholic, right,
and I would lean more you know, Protestant in my beliefs, right,
And we always just whenever you get together, have the
most fun conversations. He just sent me a picture of

(01:08:04):
a book and it's a fake book. As a joke.
He sent me a picture. He didn't even send me
anything else with this screenshot, and the screen shot was
a book titled how to Let your Friend Know He's
a Heretic. It just just send that to me, you know,
I said, die laughing. And so I love relationships like that,
and I do think I talk about this on the
podcast when I might get more politically charged guests or

(01:08:25):
more what I've had a lot of crazy guests on
from you know, way different spectrums. Like the goal of
this podcast is to let people know you can talk
about anything and it's going to be okay. Because we
live in the world where you politics and religion, don't
talk about those in the workplace, you know, like, stay

(01:08:46):
away from those A is gonna get mad at you.
And I'm like, no, we should probably talk about that
stuff way more like that's my belief. They are triggering
the subjects for people because they because they never talk
about them. I think personally, I think if everyone, if
you just as a norm, as a as a society norm,

(01:09:07):
made it normal to talk about those two topics, you
wouldn't be as triggering because you're used to it. I
think it's triggering because you have your little podcast, you
listen to you then you build up this whole thing
in your mind and then someone challenges it. And right,
because you're not used to it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
But if we know sec threatened, right, my.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
Ystem is who I am, you.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
Know, and I can't accept that. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
And but if you're if it becomes a norm to
be okay with uncomfortable conversations, I think we're going to
be a better society. So I've lost clients, by the way,
because my podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
Because of the my political views of your political views.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
Because I don't think it's right for me just to
interview people and have them be vulnerable about what they think.
If I'm not willing to do with myself. So that's
why I have the word authentic across my shoulder and
so like, I've been clear on what I believe, and
I've also been clear I'm probably gonna be wrong. Like
that's that's part of putting yourself out there. You're like,
this is where I'm at today. A month from now,

(01:10:13):
I'm might not be thinking the same thing, but this
is where I'm at today. Let's have a discussion and
so like. But overall, like it's been really good. Like
I've had people when I back through an election season,
I interviewed some more politically political people and it was great, man,
Like I'm ninety five percent positive, even on people that
don't believe the same political as I do. Like they

(01:10:34):
were very appreciative on how I did it, you know,
how I conveyed my thoughts. And so people ask if
I get nervous, you know, public speaking, or if I
get nervous going on podcasts, and I'm like, dude, when
you talk about politics in public, no other topic makes
you nervous anymore. You know, I could talk about any

(01:10:56):
topic anymore, like when you meet any topic, Honestly, I
don't think i'd be uncomfortable talking about pretty much anything,
because when you're willing to talk about politics in today's
climate and put yourself out there politically, there's not much
scarier than that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
I could think of some other subjects.

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
Let's do it, do it. It was like, all right, Dylan,
let's test this out.

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
Well, Look, beliefs have a our Beliefs are useful, Yeah,
but they're malleable. I think it's the best way to
describe it. There are values, for example, that are also

(01:11:50):
quite useful. Beliefs are always tied to a story, so
like beliefs around religion and politics are tied to stories,
and the stories are repeated continuously. You know. There, you
can't be more blatant about it than in political discourse

(01:12:16):
because for you to have a perspective means you have
to have a story. You have to have something that
is the foundation for you believing the way that you
believe right, And the challenge is always an identity one,
because when the identity and the belief get all wrapped

(01:12:38):
up together, that's where you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
Start to get you're not attacking attacking you, yes exactly, and.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
So then it becomes very things become quite fragile. So
when you when you can accept adopt a belief that
beliefs are malleable, and it really doesn't take much of
logical thought to get you there, because frankly, every belief

(01:13:04):
that you have right now is a newer version of
an older belief. You threw something out along the way.
Everyone here in a story that I use with my
leadership a ready, right, so that I tell them at
the beginning of every session that my expectations are openness
and honesty. That's it. Those are the two openness. Let's

(01:13:28):
get grounded on what openness means, because everybody, it's very
easy to say I'm open minded, right, It doesn't cost
you a darn thing to say that. To actually exhibit
that behavior is very expensive because you do have to
let go of identity to truly be open. And so

(01:13:49):
I'm going to use an example involving my wife. All right,
okay with me telling this story because I've told it
to like half a dozen leadership teams. When I'm using
the example of food, Okay, food meaning people put barriers
around their food experience. And it starts very early on

(01:14:12):
in life when the kid doesn't want to eat broccoli.
You know, Joey doesn't want to eat his broccoli. Okay,
this will pass, hopefully, and you'll get into adulthood and
go through your various iterations of trying different things. But generally,
I find once people get into adulthood and they're in

(01:14:32):
their thirties and forties, those food lines start to become
rock solid walls. Yes, you know, I know people who
won't eat seafood. The entire category of seafood is off
limits to them. Don't like it, you know when they
do it, don't like the smell, you know whatever, and

(01:14:55):
that you know, there's any number of these, all right.
So my wife with her it was sushi and sushi.
I love sushi, so she would not do it. And
I mean we've been married for thirty four years and

(01:15:16):
no sushi. Yeah, and the kids are all grown up
in their adults and they love sushi. And that was
the catalyst. She went out less than a year ago
for dinner with my daughter and son in law and
she tried a bite of sushi, and holy sha, she

(01:15:38):
wants sushi like three nights a week now. All right, yeah,
now think about it. Yeah, Okay, here is a belief
system that was solidly in place, and I was pretty
convinced that this one was never that that wall's not
coming down. And man, for whatever reason, in one inspirational

(01:15:59):
mind homent, she decided to try something that she was
unwilling to try before. And yeah, the entire food category
is now available to you. So that's openness. Is That's
why I use that now with the leadership teams, because literally,
it is a decision that you've already made or a
belief that you already have. And on the other side

(01:16:23):
of that is a whole different experience, a whole mind
expansion that can occur if you're willing to do it.
But that's true openness.

Speaker 2 (01:16:32):
Yeah, and it's one that it's hard to do. It's
you know, you said it as easy to say, but
I don't think it's hard to do. But I and
I think a lot of people think they're open, but
they're not, I would say for me, And this gets
us to another debate. So we want to say this
to another podcast. There are certain things I'm unwilling to

(01:16:57):
be open about.

Speaker 1 (01:16:59):
Because those beliefs are central to your beingness.

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
No, because I think there are certain things that are
just objective, like if we're talking like morality, like I
think murder's wrong for example, I don't think just shooting
a four year old in the face, you can't there's
no amount of openness in this situation is going to
change my mind to say this is okay. Right, And

(01:17:26):
so there are certain things that based on my worldview,
based on what I believe the Bible would teaches, that
I'm unwilling to be open on. And so then there
are other things where I believe I am given leash
for interpretation. Those things I'm willing to be open on. Yeah,
So that that's that's like when it comes to moral issues,

(01:17:49):
when it comes to certain issues where I believe has
spoken very clear on like I don't have a leash
to be open there, like I don't have the ability
to be and that that that's a full I'm sure
we could have a whole conversation on that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
Well, were you hoping that you were somehow abnormal? No,
because it's what you just described as very normal.

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
Which should be yeah, good. But I do think there
is there.

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
Is an error, There is a there is a school
of thought, there was a there is a perspective that
one could take that actually throws all that away completely right,
And that perspective is one that I have been studying lately,

(01:18:37):
and actually Nick was probably the catalyst for me looking
into it more than any other. And it is this
concept of the one or oneness, that there is no
separation that would probably, you know, we could do a
whole series of podcasts on this particular subject. But there
is both philosophical and scientific grounding for this, and it

(01:19:03):
really doesn't take too much of a zooming out to
start to get a perspective where a whole bunch of
things related to human behavior just are no longer even relevant,
because then you are just part of this total thing
and you're you know, there is no separation. In fact,

(01:19:28):
if like right now, one of the things I've been
doing a lot of is I've been doing an eighty
day series on the data chain, and central to the
Tao is this concept of non separation. And so I
think I'm like day sixty of this thing now, and

(01:19:48):
you start to realize that once separation, once you start
looking at things from the perspective of separation, then there
are opposites. There's opposition in everything, right, there's a dichotomy
in everything, and without separation, no dichotomies exist. For example,

(01:20:12):
there's no good versus evil at all. There's literally one
of the concepts that was covered in my session this
very morning was that eliminating evil is literally not giving
it a place to exist, essentially. Yeah, and this concept
of the dower of oneness with it, there is no

(01:20:36):
need for evil because there's nothing to oppose. There's no
dichotomy whatsoever. Sure are just what they are.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
Yeah, I mean, and I've studied that to degree, and
I think there's equal holes. And this is like another podcasting.
I'd love to dive into this because this is it's
a it's a utopic thought, I think in some capacity,
but I also thinks.

Speaker 1 (01:21:01):
There's practical implications though. So for example, if because it's
a utopian you are one n correct, it is utopian.
And in fact, what can be spoken about the Tao,
for example in Daoism is not actually the Tao. So
what what what is what is great and good about

(01:21:26):
it is it's usefulness, right, It's usefulness. So adopting certain
practices or certain beliefs and the understanding the intellectual grounding
that it comes from. Then it sometimes is very helpful

(01:21:46):
for human behavior. Right. It can make help a person
be more open, it can help reduce the things that
they're likely to be triggered by. You know it can
an individual be more consistently their virtuous best self for example?

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
Yeah, yeah, I think and I think for my mind,
it like just goes back to again my worldview, where
I'd be like and I would argue there are probably
equal biblical principles that would do the same thing. And
so I love this. This is fun. This is fun.
I mean, this is this is uh yeah, Brandon, So
Brandon is his name is the law firm guy of mine.
And we literally will go and we'll talk business for

(01:22:30):
five minutes and then we'll just talk theology for an
hour because I think it's great, man, And I think
I think the more, like I said, the more conversations
that could be had, it's everyone's winning. You know, everyone's
losing when you don't talk, you know what I mean.
And I think the more you can talk.

Speaker 1 (01:22:49):
Better shine. Yeah, the more you shine there you go
shine your light. Agree.

Speaker 2 (01:22:55):
That's the other thing too.

Speaker 1 (01:22:57):
Be you be your best authentic.

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
Yeah. But the one thing with this word authentic, that
doesn't mean you shouldn't change. So the beef I have
with this word is sometimes people say be authentic, just
be authentically you, And I agree with that at surface
of yeah, like speak what you believe, speak clearly. But
authentic also doesn't mean that you shouldn't change. You know

(01:23:22):
that you're just be you and no one could be
you but you and you are perfect the way you are.
You don't need not like you need to improve, like
you're not like you need to keep growing, you know.
In a Christian worldview, i'd say, no, you're a sinner
and you need to be saved but grace. So like,
authentic doesn't mean that you should just be stationary. But
to me, authentic is just another word for honest, you know.

(01:23:44):
But I think some people take it too far and
then they just say, like, you know, be authentically yourself,
you don't need to change, And I'm like, that's too far.
Well does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (01:23:55):
Yes, it does. So you're a human, therefore change is inevitable. Yeah, right,
you do not You're not. Yeah, you you are a
being who is going to pass from this earth. Literally
you will be dust at some point in the future. Okay,
So the point is the change will happen, right, right.

(01:24:22):
Do you want to be a co creator in that
change or not be proactive? Because It's like literally the
human body is designed to recognize a growth phase and
a decay phase, and once it hits a certain point,
there's like a natural point. It's not one hundred percent precise,

(01:24:42):
but then it just grows decay, it assumes decay, and
it just you know, it just goes through what you
what the body has been involved to do. So you
have to become You have to you know, literally take
the conductors wand and say, Okay, I get this, but

(01:25:04):
I'm going to be I participant in this thing. Yeah,
I want to be a co creator in my life.
The thing that people often struggle with is thinking that
there's this thing that they need to do, or this
thing that they need to be, or there's that you know,
I have to be more of this or In reality,

(01:25:27):
it's more about what you let go of than anything else,
because you're simply recognizing that you are a construction of
a whole dumb bunch of things, which includes that stuff
that you were brought into this world with your authentic,
truest self, which remains with you forever, your soul, and

(01:25:48):
those things that you've accumulated along the way, habits and behaviors,
some of which are serving you and some of which
are not maybe not, and so you let go of
the ones that might not be serving you anymore. And
that's the work to be done. Literally, it's doing that.
It's not so much I have to all of a
sudden become superman, because there is no going from nothing

(01:26:12):
to something. There's no overnight thing like this. It's literally,
what am I going to be more intentional about? That's it?

Speaker 2 (01:26:21):
Well, I'll tell you. I think that's a perfect place
for us. I mean the amount of I mean you do, Dave.
You found your nique, ability to drop nuggets of wisdom,
to give advice, and I think and you're a great teacher,
you're a great speaker, and I can tell why you've
been successful with EOS and with so many businesses. I
always give my guests an opportunity to shout out whatever
they're working on. So this is your opportunity to do.

(01:26:41):
Where can people find you? If there is an entrepreneur
listening to this, they want to reach out to you
learn more about your EOS implementation. You know, where can
they go? How can they get a hold of you?

Speaker 1 (01:26:51):
Yeah, So one thing is the EOS website, and that
is a platform where not only you can meet me
find me there, you'll find all of my colleagues there
and tons of free content, you know, I mean just

(01:27:11):
like change your life type content. So that is one
place the other places on LinkedIn, I am actively distributing wisdom.
That's probably the place where I do it more than
any other place. Facebook as well, and other than that.
For people who want to at least start down the

(01:27:38):
path of imagining a better future for them and their business,
then you know they can always call me as well.
Pick up the phone and call Dave, call day or
email day or email me, and my phone number and
my email address are easily accessible.

Speaker 2 (01:27:55):
So perfect. And I'll make sure your LinkedIn is in
the description as well so that people can you. So
go right now. Everyone followed Dave Feidner on LinkedIn. He
does post a lot of great content there, a lot
of great videos and whiteboard sessions and everything like that.
So well, man, I got to tell you, this was fun,
Like I never know where conversations are going to really go.
And that's what makes this so fun because there are

(01:28:16):
interviews and there's conversations, and I built a podcast off
of conversations, and so I knew I wanted to tackle
EOS a little bit. I knew this, but I'm like,
I know so much more about you that you lived
in London and who you are and what you think
and how you think. And I think my audience is
going to appreciate this podcast a lot. So I appreciate
you taking the time. Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (01:28:35):
It was wonderful being on this podcast. It was great
connecting you with some of the folks.

Speaker 2 (01:28:40):
Say yes and thank you. Thank you for Nick, and
for Joscelyn and for so many other people. You've been
a blessing to me, and I know you've been a
blessing to my listeners today. So thank you, brother, and
thank you for listening to this episode of The Dylan
England Show. As always, please like comments, subscribe, share this
with a friend that you think is gonna be helpful.
And I'm telling you, guys, if you own a business,
EOS is a must. I mean, there's just no way

(01:29:01):
to do it. We had Mike Grewley on the show twice.
Mike has done EOS for my company and it needs
to happen. So if you have a company, you have
a leadership team and you're kind of all over the place,
and you're looking for just an opportunity to get on
the same page, to have a vision and move towards
the same goal, collectively as a unit called Dave. All Right,
Dave's the guy. Thank you guys, really listening to this episode.

(01:29:23):
We'll see you guys on the next one. Peace cool Ranks.
You welcome in. Nice dude,

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