March 3, 2025 • 19 mins
What if I told you that China has a secret billion-dollar organ trafficking industry—using political prisoners as unwilling donors?
In this episode, we sit down with Jan Jekielek, senior editor at The Epoch Times, to uncover the horrific reality of forced organ harvesting in China, how American newspapers advertised organ transplants within WEEKS, the CCP’s brutal persecution of Falun Gong practitioners, how The Epoch Times went from a small newspaper to a global truth-seeking media powerhouse and the shocking control the CCP has over Western media.
If you care about free speech, human rights, and real journalism, you NEED to watch this.
LIKE, COMMENT & SUBSCRIBE for more uncensored interviews!
#China #OrganHarvesting #ccp
Follow The Epoch Times here:
EpochTimes.com
X: https://twitter.com/EpochTimes
YouTube: @TheEpochTimesNews
Follow Jan Jekielek here:
X: https://twitter.com/janjekielek
IG: https://www.instagram.com/jan.jekielek
Order our LOW ACID COFFEE "THE BROADCAST BREW": Link to coffee: https://www.coolbeanscoffeemi.com/product-page/broadcast-brew-low-acid-blend
Thank you to Cool Beans Coffee Brewery for your partnership!
#thedillonenglandshow
____________________________________________________
Connect with Dillon:
https://twitter.com/dillonmengland
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dillonmengland/
https://www.facebook.com/dillon.england.5
ABOUT THE DILLON ENGLAND SHOW:
Our mission is to provide our listeners with authentic conversation with interesting people, covering a wide range of topics from personal growth, entrepreneurship and lifestyle improvement, all while keeping it entertaining and informative.
China’s Organ Harvesting Industry: The Horrifying Truth | TDES
https://youtu.be/dWycWOOJf_g
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-dillon-england-show--6370921/support.
In this episode, we sit down with Jan Jekielek, senior editor at The Epoch Times, to uncover the horrific reality of forced organ harvesting in China, how American newspapers advertised organ transplants within WEEKS, the CCP’s brutal persecution of Falun Gong practitioners, how The Epoch Times went from a small newspaper to a global truth-seeking media powerhouse and the shocking control the CCP has over Western media.
If you care about free speech, human rights, and real journalism, you NEED to watch this.
LIKE, COMMENT & SUBSCRIBE for more uncensored interviews!
#China #OrganHarvesting #ccp
Follow The Epoch Times here:
EpochTimes.com
X: https://twitter.com/EpochTimes
YouTube: @TheEpochTimesNews
Follow Jan Jekielek here:
X: https://twitter.com/janjekielek
IG: https://www.instagram.com/jan.jekielek
Order our LOW ACID COFFEE "THE BROADCAST BREW": Link to coffee: https://www.coolbeanscoffeemi.com/product-page/broadcast-brew-low-acid-blend
Thank you to Cool Beans Coffee Brewery for your partnership!
#thedillonenglandshow
____________________________________________________
Connect with Dillon:
https://twitter.com/dillonmengland
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dillonmengland/
https://www.facebook.com/dillon.england.5
ABOUT THE DILLON ENGLAND SHOW:
Our mission is to provide our listeners with authentic conversation with interesting people, covering a wide range of topics from personal growth, entrepreneurship and lifestyle improvement, all while keeping it entertaining and informative.
China’s Organ Harvesting Industry: The Horrifying Truth | TDES
https://youtu.be/dWycWOOJf_g
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-dillon-england-show--6370921/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We were founded by Chinese Americans back in two thousand
to tell the truth about communist China. That was the
origin of Epoch Times.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
In the first place. Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
As of two thousand and six, we understood this. There's
this organ industry in China where they're using the prisoners
of conscience. They're using the Fall and Gong for basically
as unwilling organ donors. One of the pieces of evidence
that they found in two thousand and six was that
there are actually newspapers in America that are advertising I can.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Get you a new heart in two weeks.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
There's a living guy who's missing part of his liver
and part of his lung as a fourteen inch gashionist side.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Well, I appreciate you coming on so last minute.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Oh I love being here. Thank you for having me.
Very welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
So do you one't I just kind of give me
the overview of how did you get involved with Epoch
and your story.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I'll tell you I have a funny line about that.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Now, Okay, we're for freedom of speech, right, and we're
for freedom of conscience and belief. We're also for freedom
of pronunciation.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Yeah, So I'm welcome even I'm welcome. I'm going to
butcher everything.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I do, I do epok.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah, So my name is pronounced yan yeah, kellk. That's
the best time English way to say it. In Poland
it's a little bit different, but even Pole's misspell it,
so it's very unusual name. I'm senior editor at the
Epoch Times. I've been with them nineteen years. I've seen
a lot of change over those years. And of course
we were founded by Chinese Americans back in two thousand
(01:25):
to tell the truth about communist China. That was the
origin of Epoch Times in the first place.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Y Wow, And so where has it been getting to now?
So you have to forgive me because I don't know
really the history of Epoch Oh. Sure, where you guys started,
and then where you guys are at now, and then
where you're trying to get to. So okay, is there
anything throughout the journey that has been pivotal moments and
Epoch Times that has gotten you guys to where you're
at today.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Well, there's many pivotal moments. Let me include one that's
just jumping to my mind. Well, first of all, okay,
we were actually founded in Atlanta. Wow, that's where some
of our founders had been through this student movement in
eighty nine they survived the Tanman Square massacre, or they
were in other cities where that movement was alive. They
(02:07):
got out during the nineties and ended up in America,
and some of them ended up at Georgia Tech. And
that's actually when in nineteen ninety nine when the Chinese
Communist Party turned against the fellon Gong.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
You know, you know the background of that.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
So Fello Gong is fits broadly into what you would
call chigong, and chigong are ancient Chinese practices that you know,
some people might see tai chi being practiced, you know
what that looks like. So for someone looking from the outside,
it would be these slow motion exercises. There's more to it.
It's always kind of mind, body spirit together. So in
Fello Goong, you're living by truth, compassion, and forbearance, and
(02:43):
you kind of believe that there's a health benefit from
that too, right, But there's also like a personal equanimity,
mind and spiritual benefit from that, and then there's these
exercises which help doing that. In the nineties, they kind
of the regime opened up the opportunity for people to
do these ancient practices, but they called them chigong, which
was kind of a you know, traditionally they had kind
(03:04):
of more religious sounding names and so forth. Now it's
sort of became this kind of secular thing. Felongong was
by far the most popular, and by the end of
the nineties, the regime it's self estimated seventy to one
hundred million Pelongong.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Practitioners across China. Wow. Bigger than the Communist Party of China. Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
And the thing you have to understand is that cut
Chinese Communist Party, like any communist party, is very jealous
and very hierarchical, like extremely like the guy at the top,
and that those years it was Jong Zhimin was his name.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Now it's chi Jinping.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Essentially, everything goes down and through society from them, and
everyone's trying to implement those dictates at every level. Tellongong
didn't fit into this at all. There's no you know, basically,
there's no exact leadership. There's there's teachings. People that want
to practice it will follow them, but there isn't a hierarchy. Okay,
there isn't money collection. I can't even you know, if
(03:54):
I think you're a great Phalongong practitioner. I'm not allowed,
at least the way I understand. I'm not allowed to
copy you and how you're doing doing things. I have
to find my own way to do it. It's very personal, right.
The regime could not understand this. This was sort of
a completely.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Different way of looking at themselves who they were.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I think so, and I think that was part of
the problem, right, And so partially we have this jealous
dictator that wanted to have the sort of I don't know,
I guess cultural strength that le Hongju was the founder
of Fellow and Gong had could never get because he
was a dictator. And on the other hand, yeah, they
just they sort of imagined, okay, well, eradicate it. That
was that's in the words of the dictator. But they
(04:29):
imagine they could do it in a few weeks, you know.
And but they didn't understand that people were very self
directed in doing this, and so this massive persecution began.
They set this unwritten policy all Fellongong deaths. There are
millions of people that were put into the labor camps
and prisons.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
All Fellon Goong deaths are going to be considered suicide.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
In other words, you can work on these people to
re educate them by whatever means, and if they die
along the way, well.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
We're going to market.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
That's fine, righteties this is nineteen ninety nine. That's when
this persecution is launched. And you know, our founder is
actually in America. They're like, hey, first Amendment here, we
can actually tell the truth.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Now. We were behind those lines in nineteen eighty nine, but.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
In America today, I mean, this was geneside turned and
turned into genocide exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I actually I believe that.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
So Bob Destro, who was the Trump forty five, he
was the Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Rights and labor.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Okay, he agrees.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I had him on the show, my show American Thought
Leaders a few years ago, and he talked about that.
He said, you know, we all agree that what's happening
in Shinjong to the Wigers is genocide.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
What is genocide.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
It's the wholesale destruction of a group of a whole
and wholer in part in an attempt to basically get
rid of these people. You can do that culturally. You
can do that just by killing a ton of people.
There's all sorts of ways so by my estimation, and
Bob agreed with me on this when I suggested it
to him. The Wigers are being genocided, the Tibetans are
being genocided, and you don't hear about them a lot.
(05:54):
And I'll mention why I think that is in a
moment and the fellon Goonger being genocide, I believe that.
I believe it would fit into that room. We could
just but the point is it's really bad. It's yeah humanity,
it's like it's like excreme persecution, which continues to this day.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
And that's and then Epoch was founded like in the
late nineties really two thousands at that point tell to.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Tell that story in Chinese language for Chinese Americans. But
it became really clear very quickly that Americans needed this
why because it was Kissinger doctrine time. Basically, what you
were supposed to believe that was that if you eat,
pump enough money into China and everybody goes there, and
all industry goes there and we never make them, you know,
sort of lose face or something like that, it'll become
a democracy. That was the kind of weird idea, right
(06:38):
two thousand and nine, Tom Friedman New York Times. He's
writing op eds that say we should adopt governance practices
from China.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Meanwhile, for me, as of two thousand and six, we
understood this. There's this organ industry in China where they're
using the prisoners of conscience. They're using the fall and
Gong for basically as unwilling organ donors as part of
you know, like you said, kind of genocidal or quasi
genocidal behavior.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Why is he all the researcher like just part oh?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Because so one of the pieces of evidence that they
found in two thousand and six was that there are
actually newspapers in America that are advertising I can get
you a new heart in two weeks.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
How can that?
Speaker 1 (07:17):
So you wanted the first legislation that was the that
was created against this. This was an israel head of
the Israeli Transplant Association, Yaka Bili, the amazing man. He
has a patient that says, hey, listen, i can't wait
two years for my heart transplant, but they're offering me
one in two weeks in China, and I've got the
dates scheduled, And Yakub says, that's impossible, Like if you
were if it's scheduled. He's thinking he didn't say this,
(07:38):
I think, but he's thinking himself, it's it's scheduled. It
means someone's being killed for it. How could I know
when someone's going to die to do the operation right,
because someone has to be brain dead and body alive.
But the guy goes and gets it done and comes
back and says, here I am with my heart heart transplant.
And then Yakov spends a number of years enacting the
first legislation to basically say we're not going to pay
money for these Israel's not going to pay money for
(07:59):
these transplants. But to this day, there's a ton of
people who still don't believe or don't want to believe
in the reality of this. And there's been a whole
China tribunal back in twenty twenty that was convened on
to look at all the information and they say, absolutely
this is happening. And now there's even a survivor. Okay,
there's a survivor, and this is against all odds. My
father in law was a Holocaust survivor. Okay, this survivor,
(08:20):
he's kind of like a Holocaust survivor in some ways
in that every step there are these multiple points in
their lives where it was almost certain death. If you
had taken a slightly different decision at that moment, you
would have been on the train that everybody was eliminated
or something. Right, Well, this guy has a life a
bit like that. And in the end there's a living
guy who's missing part of his liver and part of
(08:42):
his lung, has a fourteen inch gash in his side,
and he's around to tell the tale. And that guy
Bob destro that I mentioned earlier actually rescued him to America.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And here's the rub.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
They absolutely never want anyone to believe this or accept it, right,
And there's been all sorts of organizations, unfortunately, I hate
to say this, essentially been running cover for them, wittingly
or an unwittingly, Okay, And now they have this huge push, right,
they've decided Epoch Times of has become an incredibly influential
media you know, number four in terms of paid subscribers
(09:12):
in America. We have this organ harvesting survivor that's really
exposing them in crazy ways. There's been more media on
it in the last six months than the last eighteen
years by my measure, that's that was one of the
issue I've been following.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
But then there's also the shen Yun show, right, and
you're familiar with shan Yun. Yeah, yeah, incredible. So you
know what Shenyun is a million audience a year. They
hate that it shows how beautiful and wondrous traditional Chinese
culture was and that all.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Goodness in China doesn't come from communism. In fact, yes,
communism was the destroyer part.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Of that show. When I was watching it, you just
had this beautiful show. Then all of a sudden it
turned political and it was just this stark like whoa
like this is this is telling a very stark story.
And I saw like three or four years ago with
my wife it was it was beautiful.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
What was the what was the scene that you saw that?
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Oh? Man, it was an Detroit when we saw it,
and it's just a lot of red. I remember a
lot of red and some sort of like well so
stompin' down of people.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
In shen Yun.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
There's typically one or two of the twenty or twenty
five different elements that go into the show. I guess,
kind of vignettes you could call them, that will talk
about the cruelty of the Chinese regime to traditional culture,
and it's sort of anti being antithetical traditional culture, and
it's manifested in different forms over the years.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yeah, yeah, I just remember that show just being gorgeous,
like the colors and the dancing, just absolutely gorgeous. But anyway,
so back to Epoch because this news organization was formed
as a direct result of the Communist government killing people
because they weren't lining up with their versions of belief right.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
And the second part was pushing the narrative that this
was good and just to do you see like this,
and a lot of American media were just like, I
guess what we're hearing from these you know, government representatives.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I guess it must be true, right, I Mean, we had.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Such a naive view the Chinese communists they call us
in their own literature barbarians like and you just kind
of a weird.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
You know, it's just propaganda. It's just propaganda. So where
is the Epoch Times in twenty twenty four? Are you
guys more of an overall news organization? So if people
can confind you you're going to try to give your
unbiased stories of just all current events or is it
still mainly China focused.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
No, so this is this is actually so you asked
me actually early on, tell me about your development, right, so, yes,
So it started out for Chinese in Chinese. Very quickly
it was English about China, and then a few years
after that it was already something much broader like And
because there was this thirst we realized I didn't we
didn't fully grasp this I think at the beginning, but
(11:46):
there was this first for truth seeking media. Yes, media
has kind of has been in this process, and you know,
legacy what I call legacy media of moving away from
what I call truth seeking to narrative enforcement. There is
the correct narrative and we will enforce that, and if
you don't agree, we're going to slander you and attack.
You know, We've been hit multiple times legacy media. Yes,
but I find my ad most of those media also
(12:09):
have financial interests with China. So you know, I think
I believe that there's this huge incentive because the regime
is so committed now we know, at the state minister
security level to destroying us and anything connected with hoongong
in any way, right that I think a number of
these media have become they think they're doing it, you know,
their narrative enforcement for the benefit of Americans or something.
(12:31):
Maybe we're really unwitting tools of the Chinese regime against
American interests. That's how I view it.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Wow, last question, and then I know we have a
You have a million things to do today, so I
don't want to take them because we could talk.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
For an hour. I'm enjoying myself immensely here. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
You ask good questions. By the way, thank you very much.
We're going to click that to send it to my wife. Okay, okay,
So how can people support you guys with your mission?
And before we actually I want to ask one fall
before that, So me survives on clicks and sometimes just
the plain truth isn't as catchy as a spun story
(13:09):
that twists the media to get more clicks and whatever.
So how have you guys, as a free speech news organization,
been able to balance we need to get viewers when
you catchy titles, when you catchy this, but also still
trying to stay true to the truth.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
It's it's incredibly difficult, I think.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Okay, I think staying true to the truth is not
that hard if you're deeply committed to it, which we are,
and I think as I said that first felon Gong principle,
I think that's influence substantially from the beginning. So we're
very mission oriented. We're actually so here's here's a fact
for you.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
We are ninety five percent funded by individual paid subscribers. Okay, wow,
So there's a lot of media get funding in different ways,
maybe larger donors. We do have maybe three percent larger donors,
another two percent advertising. But I think that speaks to
our independence.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
And our advertisers not sorry to our advertisers not wanting
to advertise because of the content and talking against China
and things like that. Have you guys found that to
be a struggle.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
You've asked me a bunch of different questions that I
could spend an hour on each of. Yea, I know
I'm not trying to think. I'm trying to think what
I should answer first.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
So in answer to your first question, the nature of
media today, with social media being so dominant, pushes people
into silos and it's become more of a thing where
people pay by what validates their pre existing views as
opposed to just being informed about something new. Right, Yes,
and that makes it, and I could again explain this
(14:38):
is an amazing scholar at Manhattan Institute, Andrei Meir, who
talks about this, explains this really well. I've come to
believe his view, but he kind of believes it that
it's inevitable and that we have no hope to.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Not do it that way.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
But I actually have to disagree, because our whole purpose
is to be able to tell the truth, not just
to one group of people who already understand, for example,
the terrible things the Communist Party is about of China
or or anything else, right, we actually have to be
able to reach those let's say, the ten million people
that voted for Trump that are Democrats, for example, and
beyond that.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
So you know, because the reason I say this is
that we've often been called like a pro Trump media
or something like that.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Those are a lot of the hit pieces, of course.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
But why because we covered Russia Gate honestly, because it
was ridiculous from the beginning. We called it spygate back
in the day, right, but now it's called Russigate.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It's ridiculous. It's a ridiculous story. On its face, it
was a fake, I mean, the entire day.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Against them.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
But so actually this is our and what happens is
your marketing team. Marketing tells you what do they do.
They promote what works, and what works tends to be
the stuff which is like I said, you said it,
well right, a little bit more, uh, you know, sort
of an emotion exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
So you it's it's a tough gig and that's but
that's our purpose.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Our purpose is to find that path to be able
to actually inform, not just not validate, right, because about
we wanted we need to do the validating too at
some level, I think that just happens, right, But if
you're not informing about the new things that people don't
already believe and they don't trust you to do that, how.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Can you really be a media? Right?
Speaker 1 (16:14):
So, and I think we've done it better than most,
to be fair, but that's a it's a big challenge
in this day and age.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
That's that's the answer to one of the questions.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, I know I had to give you had you
had another you had another great question that now I'm
I'm space honestly, how can.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
People support us?
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Oh yeah, so we're I I don't know how it
is now when because Allegedly, The Washington Post lost two
hundred thousand paid subscribers after not endorsing Kamala Harris in
the race. If you recall that, I don't know where
that number came from. I don't know if it's real.
That might actually push us into third place among among
these media, but we're to be sure, we're we're number
(16:50):
four among the mad these major news media in effect. Right, Wow,
in these paid subscribers, you want to support us, subscribe
And it's honestly not a lot of.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
People say, Oh, it's like ostu a cup of coffee
above or a week or yeah, it's it's really not
a lot.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
And I think you'll find an incredible what people The
most common thing people.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Tell me, right is I found all sorts of stuff
that I haven't.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Found anywhere else, right, which, as I'm glad and people
it means that people are looking for discovery. I mean,
our health section is second to none. We've been very
good again on the facts around that through the whole pandemic,
and and.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
And well, you guys are just doing a real journal
You're doing what journalism should be, and it's it's honest truth.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
You can put that on your website.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
But I was just honest truth. You're not spinning narratives
and you're just saying what you guys believe, and that's important.
I mean, like.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Based on evidence, right, based on evidence, not like oh
this is what I think.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Yeah, yeah, Are you guys connected with the people that
Parlor at all? Because when you're talking, so they're the
free speech platform that's coming back.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
They're the original.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
I actually want to connect with them because we were
actually very big on Parlor when it was destroyed. I mean,
you know what happened, right, and we just sort of
after we tried for a while, but eventually there just was, know,
there seemed to be no activity.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
There was because there either were shut down. And then
they're just now and I'm actually already go on their
show in twenty five minutes. I'm friends with all of them.
All introduced you please, that'd be great. And and but
their mission is the same. I love companies like yours
and Parlor and what ELA's trying to do on X
of just this decentralization of propaganda media and allowing people
(18:22):
to do real journalism without being afraid that their senior
editor is gonna be like, oh, you can't write that
article because it doesn't fit in line. And what you
guys are doing is just finding facts and speaking truth.
And because I appreciate this interview because I legitimately had
no clue who you guys were. I didn't have time.
We have about forty interviews in three days that I'm
prepping for. Yeah, and like I'm gonna I'm pumped. I'm like, Okay,
(18:45):
we're checking you guys out now.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
And I'd love to hear. And we actually love to
get constructive criticism. You know, I thought as such a
huge fan of the slag, the random landom slander, but
I'm a huge fan of real constructive criticism because that's
the only way we're ever going to get better.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Perfect.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
So well, yeahn thank you for coming the show.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Guys.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Check out the Epoch Times. Go subscribe if you would
like to support.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
The Epoch Times dot Epoch Times Times dot com.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Yeah, perfect, Thank you brother, Thank you for coming the show. Guys,
support the lot of Times.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Subscribe.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
We'll see you guys in the next one.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Thanksgiving
We were founded by Chinese Americans back in two thousand
to tell the truth about communist China. That was the
origin of Epoch Times.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
In the first place. Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
As of two thousand and six, we understood this. There's
this organ industry in China where they're using the prisoners
of conscience. They're using the Fall and Gong for basically
as unwilling organ donors. One of the pieces of evidence
that they found in two thousand and six was that
there are actually newspapers in America that are advertising I can.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Get you a new heart in two weeks.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
There's a living guy who's missing part of his liver
and part of his lung as a fourteen inch gashionist side.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Well, I appreciate you coming on so last minute.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Oh I love being here. Thank you for having me.
Very welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
So do you one't I just kind of give me
the overview of how did you get involved with Epoch
and your story.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I'll tell you I have a funny line about that.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Now, Okay, we're for freedom of speech, right, and we're
for freedom of conscience and belief. We're also for freedom
of pronunciation.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Yeah, So I'm welcome even I'm welcome. I'm going to
butcher everything.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I do, I do epok.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah, So my name is pronounced yan yeah, kellk. That's
the best time English way to say it. In Poland
it's a little bit different, but even Pole's misspell it,
so it's very unusual name. I'm senior editor at the
Epoch Times. I've been with them nineteen years. I've seen
a lot of change over those years. And of course
we were founded by Chinese Americans back in two thousand
(01:25):
to tell the truth about communist China. That was the
origin of Epoch Times in the first place.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Y Wow, And so where has it been getting to now?
So you have to forgive me because I don't know
really the history of Epoch Oh. Sure, where you guys started,
and then where you guys are at now, and then
where you're trying to get to. So okay, is there
anything throughout the journey that has been pivotal moments and
Epoch Times that has gotten you guys to where you're
at today.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Well, there's many pivotal moments. Let me include one that's
just jumping to my mind. Well, first of all, okay,
we were actually founded in Atlanta. Wow, that's where some
of our founders had been through this student movement in
eighty nine they survived the Tanman Square massacre, or they
were in other cities where that movement was alive. They
(02:07):
got out during the nineties and ended up in America,
and some of them ended up at Georgia Tech. And
that's actually when in nineteen ninety nine when the Chinese
Communist Party turned against the fellon Gong.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
You know, you know the background of that.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
So Fello Gong is fits broadly into what you would
call chigong, and chigong are ancient Chinese practices that you know,
some people might see tai chi being practiced, you know
what that looks like. So for someone looking from the outside,
it would be these slow motion exercises. There's more to it.
It's always kind of mind, body spirit together. So in
Fello Goong, you're living by truth, compassion, and forbearance, and
(02:43):
you kind of believe that there's a health benefit from
that too, right, But there's also like a personal equanimity,
mind and spiritual benefit from that, and then there's these
exercises which help doing that. In the nineties, they kind
of the regime opened up the opportunity for people to
do these ancient practices, but they called them chigong, which
was kind of a you know, traditionally they had kind
(03:04):
of more religious sounding names and so forth. Now it's
sort of became this kind of secular thing. Felongong was
by far the most popular, and by the end of
the nineties, the regime it's self estimated seventy to one
hundred million Pelongong.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Practitioners across China. Wow. Bigger than the Communist Party of China. Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
And the thing you have to understand is that cut
Chinese Communist Party, like any communist party, is very jealous
and very hierarchical, like extremely like the guy at the top,
and that those years it was Jong Zhimin was his name.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Now it's chi Jinping.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Essentially, everything goes down and through society from them, and
everyone's trying to implement those dictates at every level. Tellongong
didn't fit into this at all. There's no you know, basically,
there's no exact leadership. There's there's teachings. People that want
to practice it will follow them, but there isn't a hierarchy. Okay,
there isn't money collection. I can't even you know, if
(03:54):
I think you're a great Phalongong practitioner. I'm not allowed,
at least the way I understand. I'm not allowed to
copy you and how you're doing doing things. I have
to find my own way to do it. It's very personal, right.
The regime could not understand this. This was sort of
a completely.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Different way of looking at themselves who they were.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I think so, and I think that was part of
the problem, right, And so partially we have this jealous
dictator that wanted to have the sort of I don't know,
I guess cultural strength that le Hongju was the founder
of Fellow and Gong had could never get because he
was a dictator. And on the other hand, yeah, they
just they sort of imagined, okay, well, eradicate it. That
was that's in the words of the dictator. But they
(04:29):
imagine they could do it in a few weeks, you know.
And but they didn't understand that people were very self
directed in doing this, and so this massive persecution began.
They set this unwritten policy all Fellongong deaths. There are
millions of people that were put into the labor camps
and prisons.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
All Fellon Goong deaths are going to be considered suicide.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
In other words, you can work on these people to
re educate them by whatever means, and if they die
along the way, well.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
We're going to market.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
That's fine, righteties this is nineteen ninety nine. That's when
this persecution is launched. And you know, our founder is
actually in America. They're like, hey, first Amendment here, we
can actually tell the truth.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Now. We were behind those lines in nineteen eighty nine, but.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
In America today, I mean, this was geneside turned and
turned into genocide exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I actually I believe that.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
So Bob Destro, who was the Trump forty five, he
was the Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Rights and labor.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Okay, he agrees.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I had him on the show, my show American Thought
Leaders a few years ago, and he talked about that.
He said, you know, we all agree that what's happening
in Shinjong to the Wigers is genocide.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
What is genocide.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
It's the wholesale destruction of a group of a whole
and wholer in part in an attempt to basically get
rid of these people. You can do that culturally. You
can do that just by killing a ton of people.
There's all sorts of ways so by my estimation, and
Bob agreed with me on this when I suggested it
to him. The Wigers are being genocided, the Tibetans are
being genocided, and you don't hear about them a lot.
(05:54):
And I'll mention why I think that is in a
moment and the fellon Goonger being genocide, I believe that.
I believe it would fit into that room. We could
just but the point is it's really bad. It's yeah humanity,
it's like it's like excreme persecution, which continues to this day.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
And that's and then Epoch was founded like in the
late nineties really two thousands at that point tell to.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Tell that story in Chinese language for Chinese Americans. But
it became really clear very quickly that Americans needed this
why because it was Kissinger doctrine time. Basically, what you
were supposed to believe that was that if you eat,
pump enough money into China and everybody goes there, and
all industry goes there and we never make them, you know,
sort of lose face or something like that, it'll become
a democracy. That was the kind of weird idea, right
(06:38):
two thousand and nine, Tom Friedman New York Times. He's
writing op eds that say we should adopt governance practices
from China.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Meanwhile, for me, as of two thousand and six, we
understood this. There's this organ industry in China where they're
using the prisoners of conscience. They're using the fall and
Gong for basically as unwilling organ donors as part of
you know, like you said, kind of genocidal or quasi
genocidal behavior.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Why is he all the researcher like just part oh?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Because so one of the pieces of evidence that they
found in two thousand and six was that there are
actually newspapers in America that are advertising I can get
you a new heart in two weeks.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
How can that?
Speaker 1 (07:17):
So you wanted the first legislation that was the that
was created against this. This was an israel head of
the Israeli Transplant Association, Yaka Bili, the amazing man. He
has a patient that says, hey, listen, i can't wait
two years for my heart transplant, but they're offering me
one in two weeks in China, and I've got the
dates scheduled, And Yakub says, that's impossible, Like if you
were if it's scheduled. He's thinking he didn't say this,
(07:38):
I think, but he's thinking himself, it's it's scheduled. It
means someone's being killed for it. How could I know
when someone's going to die to do the operation right,
because someone has to be brain dead and body alive.
But the guy goes and gets it done and comes
back and says, here I am with my heart heart transplant.
And then Yakov spends a number of years enacting the
first legislation to basically say we're not going to pay
money for these Israel's not going to pay money for
(07:59):
these transplants. But to this day, there's a ton of
people who still don't believe or don't want to believe
in the reality of this. And there's been a whole
China tribunal back in twenty twenty that was convened on
to look at all the information and they say, absolutely
this is happening. And now there's even a survivor. Okay,
there's a survivor, and this is against all odds. My
father in law was a Holocaust survivor. Okay, this survivor,
(08:20):
he's kind of like a Holocaust survivor in some ways
in that every step there are these multiple points in
their lives where it was almost certain death. If you
had taken a slightly different decision at that moment, you
would have been on the train that everybody was eliminated
or something. Right, Well, this guy has a life a
bit like that. And in the end there's a living
guy who's missing part of his liver and part of
(08:42):
his lung, has a fourteen inch gash in his side,
and he's around to tell the tale. And that guy
Bob destro that I mentioned earlier actually rescued him to America.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And here's the rub.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
They absolutely never want anyone to believe this or accept it, right,
And there's been all sorts of organizations, unfortunately, I hate
to say this, essentially been running cover for them, wittingly
or an unwittingly, Okay, And now they have this huge push, right,
they've decided Epoch Times of has become an incredibly influential
media you know, number four in terms of paid subscribers
(09:12):
in America. We have this organ harvesting survivor that's really
exposing them in crazy ways. There's been more media on
it in the last six months than the last eighteen
years by my measure, that's that was one of the
issue I've been following.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
But then there's also the shen Yun show, right, and
you're familiar with shan Yun. Yeah, yeah, incredible. So you
know what Shenyun is a million audience a year. They
hate that it shows how beautiful and wondrous traditional Chinese
culture was and that all.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Goodness in China doesn't come from communism. In fact, yes,
communism was the destroyer part.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Of that show. When I was watching it, you just
had this beautiful show. Then all of a sudden it
turned political and it was just this stark like whoa
like this is this is telling a very stark story.
And I saw like three or four years ago with
my wife it was it was beautiful.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
What was the what was the scene that you saw that?
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Oh? Man, it was an Detroit when we saw it,
and it's just a lot of red. I remember a
lot of red and some sort of like well so
stompin' down of people.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
In shen Yun.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
There's typically one or two of the twenty or twenty
five different elements that go into the show. I guess,
kind of vignettes you could call them, that will talk
about the cruelty of the Chinese regime to traditional culture,
and it's sort of anti being antithetical traditional culture, and
it's manifested in different forms over the years.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yeah, yeah, I just remember that show just being gorgeous,
like the colors and the dancing, just absolutely gorgeous. But anyway,
so back to Epoch because this news organization was formed
as a direct result of the Communist government killing people
because they weren't lining up with their versions of belief right.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
And the second part was pushing the narrative that this
was good and just to do you see like this,
and a lot of American media were just like, I
guess what we're hearing from these you know, government representatives.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I guess it must be true, right, I Mean, we had.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Such a naive view the Chinese communists they call us
in their own literature barbarians like and you just kind
of a weird.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
You know, it's just propaganda. It's just propaganda. So where
is the Epoch Times in twenty twenty four? Are you
guys more of an overall news organization? So if people
can confind you you're going to try to give your
unbiased stories of just all current events or is it
still mainly China focused.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
No, so this is this is actually so you asked
me actually early on, tell me about your development, right, so, yes,
So it started out for Chinese in Chinese. Very quickly
it was English about China, and then a few years
after that it was already something much broader like And
because there was this thirst we realized I didn't we
didn't fully grasp this I think at the beginning, but
(11:46):
there was this first for truth seeking media. Yes, media
has kind of has been in this process, and you know,
legacy what I call legacy media of moving away from
what I call truth seeking to narrative enforcement. There is
the correct narrative and we will enforce that, and if
you don't agree, we're going to slander you and attack.
You know, We've been hit multiple times legacy media. Yes,
but I find my ad most of those media also
(12:09):
have financial interests with China. So you know, I think
I believe that there's this huge incentive because the regime
is so committed now we know, at the state minister
security level to destroying us and anything connected with hoongong
in any way, right that I think a number of
these media have become they think they're doing it, you know,
their narrative enforcement for the benefit of Americans or something.
(12:31):
Maybe we're really unwitting tools of the Chinese regime against
American interests. That's how I view it.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Wow, last question, and then I know we have a
You have a million things to do today, so I
don't want to take them because we could talk.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
For an hour. I'm enjoying myself immensely here. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
You ask good questions. By the way, thank you very much.
We're going to click that to send it to my wife. Okay, okay,
So how can people support you guys with your mission?
And before we actually I want to ask one fall
before that, So me survives on clicks and sometimes just
the plain truth isn't as catchy as a spun story
(13:09):
that twists the media to get more clicks and whatever.
So how have you guys, as a free speech news organization,
been able to balance we need to get viewers when
you catchy titles, when you catchy this, but also still
trying to stay true to the truth.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
It's it's incredibly difficult, I think.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Okay, I think staying true to the truth is not
that hard if you're deeply committed to it, which we are,
and I think as I said that first felon Gong principle,
I think that's influence substantially from the beginning. So we're
very mission oriented. We're actually so here's here's a fact
for you.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
We are ninety five percent funded by individual paid subscribers. Okay, wow,
So there's a lot of media get funding in different ways,
maybe larger donors. We do have maybe three percent larger donors,
another two percent advertising. But I think that speaks to
our independence.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
And our advertisers not sorry to our advertisers not wanting
to advertise because of the content and talking against China
and things like that. Have you guys found that to
be a struggle.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
You've asked me a bunch of different questions that I
could spend an hour on each of. Yea, I know
I'm not trying to think. I'm trying to think what
I should answer first.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
So in answer to your first question, the nature of
media today, with social media being so dominant, pushes people
into silos and it's become more of a thing where
people pay by what validates their pre existing views as
opposed to just being informed about something new. Right, Yes,
and that makes it, and I could again explain this
(14:38):
is an amazing scholar at Manhattan Institute, Andrei Meir, who
talks about this, explains this really well. I've come to
believe his view, but he kind of believes it that
it's inevitable and that we have no hope to.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Not do it that way.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
But I actually have to disagree, because our whole purpose
is to be able to tell the truth, not just
to one group of people who already understand, for example,
the terrible things the Communist Party is about of China
or or anything else, right, we actually have to be
able to reach those let's say, the ten million people
that voted for Trump that are Democrats, for example, and
beyond that.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
So you know, because the reason I say this is
that we've often been called like a pro Trump media
or something like that.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Those are a lot of the hit pieces, of course.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
But why because we covered Russia Gate honestly, because it
was ridiculous from the beginning. We called it spygate back
in the day, right, but now it's called Russigate.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It's ridiculous. It's a ridiculous story. On its face, it
was a fake, I mean, the entire day.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Against them.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
But so actually this is our and what happens is
your marketing team. Marketing tells you what do they do.
They promote what works, and what works tends to be
the stuff which is like I said, you said it,
well right, a little bit more, uh, you know, sort
of an emotion exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
So you it's it's a tough gig and that's but
that's our purpose.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Our purpose is to find that path to be able
to actually inform, not just not validate, right, because about
we wanted we need to do the validating too at
some level, I think that just happens, right, But if
you're not informing about the new things that people don't
already believe and they don't trust you to do that, how.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Can you really be a media? Right?
Speaker 1 (16:14):
So, and I think we've done it better than most,
to be fair, but that's a it's a big challenge
in this day and age.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
That's that's the answer to one of the questions.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, I know I had to give you had you
had another you had another great question that now I'm
I'm space honestly, how can.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
People support us?
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Oh yeah, so we're I I don't know how it
is now when because Allegedly, The Washington Post lost two
hundred thousand paid subscribers after not endorsing Kamala Harris in
the race. If you recall that, I don't know where
that number came from. I don't know if it's real.
That might actually push us into third place among among
these media, but we're to be sure, we're we're number
(16:50):
four among the mad these major news media in effect. Right, Wow,
in these paid subscribers, you want to support us, subscribe
And it's honestly not a lot of.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
People say, Oh, it's like ostu a cup of coffee
above or a week or yeah, it's it's really not
a lot.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
And I think you'll find an incredible what people The
most common thing people.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Tell me, right is I found all sorts of stuff
that I haven't.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Found anywhere else, right, which, as I'm glad and people
it means that people are looking for discovery. I mean,
our health section is second to none. We've been very
good again on the facts around that through the whole pandemic,
and and.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
And well, you guys are just doing a real journal
You're doing what journalism should be, and it's it's honest truth.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
You can put that on your website.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
But I was just honest truth. You're not spinning narratives
and you're just saying what you guys believe, and that's important.
I mean, like.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Based on evidence, right, based on evidence, not like oh
this is what I think.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Yeah, yeah, Are you guys connected with the people that
Parlor at all? Because when you're talking, so they're the
free speech platform that's coming back.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
They're the original.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
I actually want to connect with them because we were
actually very big on Parlor when it was destroyed. I mean,
you know what happened, right, and we just sort of
after we tried for a while, but eventually there just was, know,
there seemed to be no activity.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
There was because there either were shut down. And then
they're just now and I'm actually already go on their
show in twenty five minutes. I'm friends with all of them.
All introduced you please, that'd be great. And and but
their mission is the same. I love companies like yours
and Parlor and what ELA's trying to do on X
of just this decentralization of propaganda media and allowing people
(18:22):
to do real journalism without being afraid that their senior
editor is gonna be like, oh, you can't write that
article because it doesn't fit in line. And what you
guys are doing is just finding facts and speaking truth.
And because I appreciate this interview because I legitimately had
no clue who you guys were. I didn't have time.
We have about forty interviews in three days that I'm
prepping for. Yeah, and like I'm gonna I'm pumped. I'm like, Okay,
(18:45):
we're checking you guys out now.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
And I'd love to hear. And we actually love to
get constructive criticism. You know, I thought as such a
huge fan of the slag, the random landom slander, but
I'm a huge fan of real constructive criticism because that's
the only way we're ever going to get better.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Perfect.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
So well, yeahn thank you for coming the show.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Guys.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Check out the Epoch Times. Go subscribe if you would
like to support.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
The Epoch Times dot Epoch Times Times dot com.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Yeah, perfect, Thank you brother, Thank you for coming the show. Guys,
support the lot of Times.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Subscribe.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
We'll see you guys in the next one.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Thanksgiving
Popular Podcasts
Fudd Around And Find Out
UConn basketball star Azzi Fudd brings her championship swag to iHeart Women’s Sports with Fudd Around and Find Out, a weekly podcast that takes fans along for the ride as Azzi spends her final year of college trying to reclaim the National Championship and prepare to be a first round WNBA draft pick. Ever wonder what it’s like to be a world-class athlete in the public spotlight while still managing schoolwork, friendships and family time? It’s time to Fudd Around and Find Out!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!