What Running a Top PR Firm Taught Me | John Truscott | TDES

When John Truscott left politics to build his own PR firm, he didn’t realize how heavy the pressure would hit.

Lost clients. Bare-bones months. Thirty paychecks depending on him.

And he learned very quickly: if you won't show up, your business won't either. 

He remembers taking heat for voicing unpopular opinions as the governor of Michigan’s press secretary, and later navigating an unlikely merger with a competitor-turned-friend.

Because success doesn’t come from playing it safe.

Success comes from walking away at the right moment, having the uncomfortable but necessary conversations, grinding through calls, and remaining steady when cycles get brutal.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-dillon-england-show--6370921/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Clients who pay the least demand the most.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Would you encourage more young people to get involved in politics?
Early lightened with I would you mentioned that the landscape's changing.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
We still talk to the newspaper reporters, TV reporters. They're
still important, but they are only one component of the
entire story. But now it's just the start because fewer
and fewer people are reading the newspapers.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
When would I hire a PR firm? Like, what are
the different events they're trying to achieve?

Speaker 1 (00:30):
For example, if you were looking at a major expansion
or you had an acquisition, and we're trying to reach customers,
we can help do that. How can we do better
in telling our story so that people understand it, sympathize
with it, agree with it. We are representing people and
we're trying to get the message to people.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
What kept you going and not closing your doors?

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Working for a governor that was making very active decisions,
some of them that were not popular among the masses.
They ended up being the right decisions, but at the
time they were really tough decisions. I was dealing with
eight need ninety phone calls from reporters every single day,
and I did it when I was my twenties. Kind
of going through that at that age prepared me for
whatever may come.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
You are a PR company or we're a PR company.
At one point there was a merger and something. So
tell me, I'll let you start the history. I know
right now. So I took some notes. Okay, let's see
if these are right. Let's fact check these notes real quick.
I got them from you, so hopefully they're right.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Uh, but I bet it be otherwise, I guess I
really edit. What do you do?

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Well? Yeah, let's see. So, uh, you merged and then
it became after emerged the largest and most trusted Michigan
owned public relations agent. Say at one point, is that
still the case?

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Wow? So the Rossman Group or Trustcott became Trustcott Rossman. Yes, okay, gotcha.
And now you're the largest Michigan owned public relations agency
in the state. Yeah that's awesome. Yeah, So what got
you into PR?

Speaker 1 (01:53):
So?

Speaker 2 (01:53):
I love stories, So I love telling our listeners like,
who are you? How did you get into this field?
Did you start the Rossman Group? Is that like your company?
You found that?

Speaker 1 (02:02):
My company was the John Truscott Group. Gotcha before? And
Kelly Rossman was a fierce competitor and a dear friend
at the same time. Okay, but I'll kind of back
up a little bit. When I was in college, I
started pre med, didn't know what I wanted to do,
started taking all the science courses and things that just
it didn't feel right to me. It's like, I can

(02:22):
do it, it's not fun, it's not my passion. So
I changed to no preference. And at the time, I
was in a special program through the Department of Education
that dealt with student leadership. I've been involved in some
of their activities in high school. That exposed me to
the legislative process. We were meeting with legislators, we were
talking about state policy on behalf of students. So I

(02:45):
did that and then I started to get a little
deeper into the legislative public policy side of things. Did
a couple other internships that weren't in the field, and
then I was at my senior year of college and
I had no way to pay for school. I was
paying my way through the whole time, and so I
started knocking on doors. I born and raised in Lansing,
the capital is a natural place to do that, and

(03:08):
I just started meeting people and they'd refer me to
other people, and eventually I got a job in the
State Senate and was writing newsletters and press releases and things,
and it really I had decent writing skills, but I
honed them in that job, and I was taking a
bunch of communications classes at the time. Graduated well. Then

(03:30):
I went to the House Republican Press Office and I
hosted and produced our video TV programs with legislators and
was assigned to do all the writing for for state representatives.
Then I graduated with a degree in communication.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Also see in college.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
So after a year and a half, I was probably
a year out of school. It's like we're in the
minority in the House. There's our computers. Back then, computers
were old. They were really old all over equipment. It's like,
I'm ready to move on do something else. And that's
when I stumbled. I just started again knocking on doors, networking,
meeting people and found some people who were starting a

(04:08):
gubernatorial campaign and it was the John Angler for Governor campaign.
And I interviewed it like twenty one years old, and
I think nobody else wanted the job, so they hired me,
and I thought it'll be great experience, I'll meet some
great people, something for my resume. And then we won. Wow,
And so I became the governor's press secretary at that point. Wow.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
And I stayed, how old were you at this point?

Speaker 1 (04:31):
Twenty one, twenty two?

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (04:32):
At that time, I know on a campaign trail. I
celebrated my twenty first birthday while.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
And can you define goubernatorial for those that don't know
what that is, because it is it's.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Campaign for governor. That's what it is government Michigan. Yep. Well,
gubernatorial is the technical official term for governor. And then
after that, after eleven years, I started my own firm,
the John Truscott Group, focused on public affairs issue so
mainly lancing based capital public policy type issues. Did that

(05:06):
for ten years, and as I mentioned, Kelly was a
dear friend. We would get lunch, you know, every other
month and gossip and talk about things. And there was
one day she said, why don't you come work for me?
And I said, Kelly, I can't work for you. I've
had my own gig for ten years. I cannot work

(05:26):
for anybody else. And then like the next quarter we
were meeting for dinner and she said, well, have you
thought about it? Why don't you work for me? Or
why don't we consider merging something like that? So then
it was like it was a holiday weekend. I don't know,
it was fourth of July. I got out the yellow
legal pad and wrote all the pros and cons and
went through the whole thing. I said, the only con

(05:49):
is just a loss of a little bit of financial control,
but the impact that we could have statewide. Her firm,
she had more people than I did. She had been
doing it longer than I have. She broke the glass
ceiling for women in Michigan. In the field, everybody knew
we're love public public relations, and I said, there's something

(06:10):
here and so at the time and then we got
together our lawyers and accountants and everybody had started crunching
numbers and made it happen.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
So what was the pro for her, given that she
was a bigger.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
I think the pro for both of us was the
impact statewide. I had a really good base of clients
and Grand Rapids. She had a really good base in Detroit,
and our ability to kind of marry that. She's a Democrat,
I'm a Republican. So we're bipartisan doing a lot of
public affairs work. And a lot of people in that
process want to know what both sides are thinking or

(06:42):
how to reach both sides on an issue, and it
just kind of worked out and we had a lot
of fun together for ten years.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Wow. Is that normal for a PR company to represent
but like like a political PR company? Is that normal
for them to represent both sides?

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Or do that? Really?

Speaker 2 (06:58):
We were unique thing?

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Right? Yeah? I think we were the first bipartisan firm
of our kind out.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
There, and not just in Michigan, just probably at least
there were.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Probably someone in DC where people had partnered up from
different presidential administrations, but clearly the first in Michigan. And
then we branched way out beyond the public affairs issues
from there.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
What do you mean by branching out because a lot
of our listeners are probably like I don't think most
of them even know really what PR is like, so
maybe it's up there real quick. Sure PR did my knowledge.
You can let me know if I'm wrong or you
know how smart I am. But basically it's just you know,
when I think of public relations, I think of how
does the public view somebody? And you can try to
curate stories or if somebody needs help like, hey, this

(07:43):
story broke, we need to do damage control or something
like that.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
It's something that in a very very broad sense, you're
spot on, and the field has changed a lot in
recent years, which I'll touch on in a second, but
it's helping a client tell their story to the public.
How can we get across our client's viewpoint, their perspective
on an issue, how the public perceives them. So in

(08:08):
the old days, it was solely pretty much focused on
communicating to the public through traditional earned media, newspapers, TV.
That was our resource that we would work together to
get the word out.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
I think they've changed a little bit.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Changed a lot. So I served as spokesperson for a
lot of companies that were our clients. So when you
see somebody quoted on behalf of X, that was me.
And what I'm trying to do is portray the company's
position to the public. Now we can do it pretty
much through our own channels. I mean, podcasts, a lot
of digital assets that social media channels and things, so

(08:45):
we can craft our own stories put them out directly
to the audience. And we still do a lot of
work with traditional media, but we we kind of taken
all of the above approach and our mantra now is
all media is earned media because you have to earn it,
even through social media, you have to have the algorithm
that's going to make sure it delivers it to your

(09:05):
intended audience. Yes, so it's really communicating the story of
the client to the public. Huh, in very simple terms.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
And I want to go back to the merger because
that kind of that's not very popular in today's world,
because today's world, the political climate is so divisive that
you're like, we have a Republican and Democrat working together.
Is that even possible?

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Right?

Speaker 2 (09:26):
Was it just different back then where it was a
lot more amicable and just you could have those conversations.
Did it cause unseen division in the company or was
it just just something that you guys knew, Hey, I'm
a Democrat, I'm a Republican. We're going to service our clients.
And that's as simple as that.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
Part of it is Kelly's unique personality and my unique personality,
and we were friends more than anything else. She passed
away two years ago from cancer, very very I think
about her every day, but her personality and she was
friends with everybody, and everybody loved her. She was is irreverent, brash.
She dropped the F bomb all the time, and everybody

(10:05):
loved her for it. But she would go in and
tell people exactly what she thought. She didn't hold anything back,
and we would tease each other about our partisan positions
and things like that, and you know, she wanted to
spend money left and right on everything, typical Democrats and
other people's money, and you tight wanted. We had that

(10:26):
going back and forth, and we had staff across the
political spectrum, probably more Democrat than Republican, and they understood
and and sometimes they'd say, oh, mom and dad are
fighting again, and things like that. But it was just
she was just a pleasure to be around, and she
didn't take it too seriously.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
This is how it should need a lot more of
that today. So you guys merged it kind of and
that created it the biggest pr from Michigan. And then
you mentioned that the landscape's changing, and so so how so.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
I think in the in the tools that we use
and the way we put out information. So, as I mentioned,
we still talk to the newspaper reporters, TV reporters. They're
still important, but they are only one component of the
entire story. So, for example, we have a lot of
clients ask us, can you place this op ad an

(11:16):
opinion editorial that kind of lays out what their position
is on an issue, kind of sets the tone for
the discussion. Well, used to be that's all you had
to do. When people read it and saw it, policymakers
would see it. So that was the holy grail at
the time. But now it's just the start. You start
with that op ad. Now are you going to put

(11:38):
it on LinkedIn and create a discussion? Are you going
to put it on X and create a discussion? How
do you then target your audience to make sure they're
seeing it because fewer and fewer people are reading the
newspapers and now that we have digital most people get
it through I read it on my iPad or my
phone or whatever. Do people actually go to the editorial

(11:59):
page and see it. So we try to distribute that
use the credibility of appearing in the newspaper, but distribute
it digitally and then create the conversation around that. So
it's it's much more complicated. But from from our perspective,
the business perspective, we have so many more tools available
to us today to get to an audience than we

(12:20):
used to.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
When you were talking, I was just kind of thinking
through at the beginning when you define pr you said,
you want to get people's story out there, right who
they are to me, that comes with a lot of pressure, right, yeah,
because you're like, especially when it comes to political campaigns,
like your pr is, it might make a break it
for them. Like you, if you do a wrong story,

(12:42):
you missed word something, or you phrase something that comes
like your intention might be x. But if someone reads
something and it comes across as different, like how have
you been able to deal with that pressure?

Speaker 1 (12:53):
And I'll take it even further. It's so it's easier
for us to get the message out because we have
so many more tools and channels, But at the same time,
people have more tools and channels to respond and it
can be brutal, as anybody has seen. So you have
to stay on top of it. You have to be responding.

(13:13):
There are certain rules people, well, can we take that
comment down? It's like, no, you don't want to. You
don't want to generate more. You want to respond with
the facts and try to influence what people are responding
understanding going forward. Because if you take that down now, oh,
it's a conspiracy against your opposition, and you just you
don't want to go there because then you get the

(13:35):
negative attention that you didn't want. And we want, you know,
we can tell our story in our own way and
we can help people see it, interpret it, understand it,
hopefully support it. Maybe maybe not. But it's just that
world has changed. We always had to do things through
the filter of a reporter, and now that filter has gone.

(13:56):
So there are certain rules. You have to be honest,
the goal and things like that, because people can sniff
out somebody who's not honest faster than ever before. And
reporters used to be a little bit of that filter.
They would be the ones to ask the tough questions
and now they just don't have the same power that
they did.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
When do you struggle with egos with your clients, like
you give them coaching, You give them teaching and they
just ignore it, or for the most part of people are.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
Times, but most of the time people are paying us,
so they're willing to listen to the advice. We can
debate it back and forth and tell them why. In
the end, it's their call, but we try to convince
them why this is the best route to go. The
biggest issue is when you get the lawyers involved. I say,
the lawyers kill some of the best PR plans that
are out there, and it's understandable they have a different

(14:47):
goal than we do. But we always say we want
to be your partner. We want to have that conversation
with you so that we can bring you along to
understand what we're trying to get across.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
I just have so many questions because, like I've never
You're the first guest we've ever had in someone in
this field. And that's why really, Yeah, because I mean
we have a lot of entrepreneurs and I have questions
I want to ask you later of what it's like
to be a CEO.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
What do you think?

Speaker 2 (15:15):
I have those questions queued up later, but I wanted
to understand PR because it's just such a unique world
that I don't think a lot of people know what
it really is. And so this is just fascinating for me.
And then would you say, still a lot of your
guests are or your clients Excuse me, I'm used to
talking podcasts like guests your clients are mainly political? I also,

(15:37):
who's your average client right now?

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah? I was So when I started in the business,
almost everybody was public affairs, political, government relations, that sort
of thing. When I merged with Kelly, it was probably
sixty to seventy percent of our clients. But then as
we grew to Detroit and Lansing or excuse me and
Grand Rapids, less and less politics. Now they may have

(16:03):
something with state government to permit requests, something like that,
so we would get involved in those, but most of
it was communicating in their communities what was going on,
or it's a company that has a reputation issue, so
we're communicating too much broader audience. I would say the
government affairs public affairs side is probably twenty to twenty
five percent of what we do now, and the rest

(16:25):
is straight commercial general communications. We work with everybody from
large corporations all the way down to nonprofits, local government,
school districts.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
I just seem to get a message out there really
like they need to get is there is there anything
like when would I hire a PR firm? Like what
are the different events they're trying to achieve? When they'd
hire you.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
I would say, for example, if you were looking at
a major expansion, or you had an acquisition and we're
trying to reach customers. We can help do that now
we probably it's probably not a general earned media additional
earned media story, it's a digital story and we can
get we can target those customers and make sure that
they're seeing the announcement, the growth, you're open for business,

(17:11):
whatever it is. We're dealing with one, for example, an
auto supplier right now that's spinning off one of their divisions. Okay,
completely new, brand, new name. Their customers haven't heard of it,
but we're transitioning. Our goal is to transition their Facebook followers,
their digital followers to this new brand and not lose

(17:32):
any of them. And we've got a digital team that's
really really good at doing that, knowing how to target
the folks over here on Facebook and attract them over
because it has to be their decision to follow, so
we want to put as much information in front of
them as as possible to get them to follow over that.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
What do you enjoy so much about this career? Because
you're getting excited talking about I can see you I do.
Do you still enjoy this at the stage.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
I love the strategy of it and bounce ideas off
people for the best way to reach the audience. I
love the new tools that we have available to us,
where previously it's okay, we'll write a press release, we
want to hone that in and get it absolutely perfect.
We'll write a op D, We'll work with the reporters
here and there, and then we have to rely on

(18:18):
them for writing it in a fair way, placing it
in a way that people will see it. And now, yep,
we still do all of that, but now how do
we get it in front of the audience in a
way that they'll understand it, that they'll kind of buy
in and start following what we're doing. And I love
the strategy of when you're up against a tough issue

(18:40):
or an opponent, how can we do better in telling
our story so that people understand it, sympathize with it,
agree with it, whatever it may be. That strategy is
a lot of fun, and I think it really just
comes down to people. You know, we are representing people
and we're trying to get the message to people.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
And that's connector connected to these people.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
It's just a lot of fun, especially when you get
a win on an issue, and we really focus on
that winning for our clients. And when you get a win,
you kind of walk around it was a good day.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah we did this. Yeah, you mentioned reporters, So then
you said you hope they give you a fair shake.
Did you ever have situations where you would send something
to reporters and they just was by it? Like, how
did you deal with reporters being the middleman back in
the back before this? Was that a problem where you'd
have to befriend? Because I don't know anything about it,
So I almost like asking, like, do you have to

(19:33):
like befriend reporters take to like try to like get
them on your side or like we're most of them fair? Like,
I don't how does how does that work?

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah, here's where you go back to the relationships again
and people. So I knew everybody in the press corps.
They had known me for years. There was a credibility
that had been built up. They would always take my call,
but you know, then they have an editor above them determining, okay,
what what makes the news tonight? I feel overall I

(20:02):
was always treated extremely fairly. I was very fortunate in
that way because look, we rely on them, they rely
on us for information, and so it's a two way street.
And I've been even to this day treated extremely fairly
by the media.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
That's cool. That's cool. So you've been how long has
your company? You started your company? How many years ago?
Even before the merchant.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
That was two thousand and one when I left the
Governor's office. Wow, and then Kelly and I emerged in
twenty eleven.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
So you've been an entrepreneur for I mean almost your
whole life, pretty much north of what to twenty three years,
twenty two.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
Years, twenty four years, four years? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Oh, is twenty twenty five?

Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah, oh my.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
Goodness, knocking on the door twenty six What would you
say is a lesson that you've learned after twenty years
of owning a business that you wish you would have
known when you started.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
That's a really good question. I haven't thought about it
in those terms. I think, you know, you always go
through business cycles, up and down. Sometimes it's attached to
a recession. Sometimes that there's just other factors involved, I think,
and I've seen the results of this. When things start

(21:20):
to backslide on you and you're losing clients or losing business,
get out there right away and be visible. That's the
most important thing people have to People are not always
thinking about you until they see you, and then they oh,
I may have a project or I just talked to
a client the other day that may need a little
communications help. And I have found time and again that

(21:42):
generates business just being out where people are doing the lunches, dinners,
and just letting people know that you're available. I've gone
through a number of cycles twenty five years. Gives you
an opportunity to learn or experience them all where you know,
when I was on my own, I was carrying ten
to eleven clients, and you lose three of them, that's

(22:02):
almost a thirty year revenue, and it's like, oh no,
am I going to make it? And then you get
out and it's like within a month or two that
business starts coming in again. So I did a video
of log early on in COVID the first couple of weeks,
as everybody's panicking, are we going to lose our business?

(22:24):
Is the world going down? All of these things, and
I said, the most important thing you can do right
now is be visible, whether it's an email to your client,
a phone call to your client, whatever it is, let
people know you're still there for them and you're thinking
of them. And then we had some strategies to stay
in front in terms of the work that we were doing,
but I said, now's the time when everybody else is

(22:45):
hunger down and hiding, not knowing what to do. If
you're the one out there and visible and giving advice
to your clients, they're going to react to that because
you're that one bright light in a very goolom when you're.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Put yourself in a position to succeeding yourself the best chance.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Possible, and if you can carry it through a time
like COVID, when you come out of it, your positions
so much better.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
How do you deal with stress of people relying on you?
Because and I'll give you just feel like I have
a you know, I have an admin. So for five
years I've paid payroll and then I just hired an
integrator for my podcast company. And it's like there's another family.
And so I have barely a taste of what it's
like to actually have thirty forty, fifty sixty. But it's

(23:29):
still like for me, it's like the pressure's very real.
Like if I don't bring in clients, this family over
in Texas doesn't eat. Yeah, and like that's very so
I'm dealing with that Right now, I'm working through like
those emotions and trying to figure out, like, all right,
we got to land this, Like how do we do this?
Like how have you been able to now? I mean
you have a massive team so and I think it's
something people don't think about a lot, but as an owner,

(23:51):
how do you deal with the stress that so many
people rely on you one paid one?

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Kind of put yourself in their position, know their fears,
their excitement, their anticipation, what they're going through. But it
is stressful, you know, especially if you have a slow
quarter or two. It's like, Okay, what decisions are we
going to make? And I've been through the ups and
downs We've had to let people go. It's brutal. I
hate going through that. I am very fortunate to have

(24:15):
a good executive team and they pretty much handle all
the tough stuff like that I used to but now
they they handle a lot of the difficult things, the management,
the people uh stuff, the daily type of things, managing
workloads right down to the number of hours per day,
and some of the tough decisions that have to be made.

(24:36):
They'll come to me with a recommendation, but they've thought
through everything, and that really helps. And it's always you know,
we've we've we've got some principles that we follow and
we try to really take care of people really well.
We we provide some of the best insurance packages out there.
We you know, the time off, the flexibility and everything.

(24:57):
It's it's a pretty good place to work. But yeah,
sometimes times we just can't support you know, a certain
staff member. Three of their clients are gone. It's like
if we don't have any more work.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, it's nothing like caring them for so long.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
So it's it's really difficult. And I would say I'm
very fortunate to have a good team that manages the
day to day stuff.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Which is a blessing. But you got here though, and
how many other people would have quit five years in
six years in like what kept you going the early
stages when it was just you, Because like I'm an
entrepreneur and I'm like building multiple companies, Like I have
our insurance thing we're doing, and we have this and that,
and I'm just like, Okay, how do I manage this?
The stress of it? And so that's what I'm personally

(25:38):
walking through because I see friends that have started companies,
they're closing them. They're closing their doors. They can't handle
the stress, so they couldn't handle this. Like, what do
you think it was that made you successful in those
early years, even though you mentioned the cycles, like you
did have downtime. What kept you going and not closing
your doors?

Speaker 1 (25:54):
I think working for a governor that was making very
active decisions, some of them that were not popular among
the masses. They ended up being the right decisions, but
at the time they were really tough decisions. I think
that just desensitized me to some of the incoming pressure
and stress, because it was like you couldn't go hide

(26:16):
when you're the spokesperson for the governor. You had to
be out there every single day. And at the time,
I was dealing with many times eighty to ninety phone
calls from reporters every single day on various issues. So
I had to change up almost with every call and
be knowledgeable on so many issues. And I did it
when I was my twenties, and so that kind of
going through that at that age prepared me for whatever

(26:38):
may come. And so while I still feel the stress
and the pressure and sometimes it gets a little overwhelming,
I just I went through probably getting twenty to thirty
years of experience in two to three years, just because
of that pressure, that daily pressure and being quite I had,
you know, it's my name out there every day quoted,

(27:00):
and if something goes wrong or you know, it only
takes one one bad move to destroy a reputation and
I'm gone, and it's just well, I'm I had a
boss who supported me, that was phenomenal. He had my
back on everything, and I spent a lot of time
with him, so I knew how he thought and talked
and everything. So it made it easier. So I carried
that into the business side and that I think that

(27:23):
still carries me through today.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
Wow. So it's just the early exposure to risk and stress.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
Extreme amounts of stress early in.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Life, and you made it through. Would you encourage more
young people to get involved in politics early in life?

Speaker 1 (27:40):
I would. I would, at least from the standpoint, go
out and work a campaign, work of a local county
commission campaign, knock on the door for that candidate, go
in the neighborhoods. It's not easy to knock on a
stranger's door and say I'm for so and so, and
you don't know what party they are behind. That door. Correct,
you can kind of list, kind of help you figure
it out, but you don't know what that response is

(28:02):
going to be. You don't know if a dog's coming
through the door at you. All these things. Yeah, it's
a phenomenal experience. It's when you campaign for somebody that
you like and believe in. It's a lot of fun. Yeah,
but you just get you get experience that you don't
get anywhere else, and you learn to deal with people,
learn to deal with adversity. It's just a great training
ground for any kind of career you'd want to go into.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah, I think that's a great point. And I joke
people all the time, like because I've talked politics on
this podcast, and when you are willing to talk politics
online and you know people are gonna watch it, you
know people on the other side, it does desensitize you.
Just like if you're willing to talk about politics online,
you're gonna want anything. Like really like any subject any
guest wants to come on. It will not stress me

(28:44):
out because we talked about politics, sure like, And so
that is something that like it can develop thick skin
and it can do that like for me, like I
waited tables at Steak and Shake, and this even just
the stress of like managing eight tables at once and
had to make you know, like it just grew me.
How much more would doing what you did? I mean, yeah,
I don't know how you didn't break, Like how you
didn't snap through that.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
I I kind of joked that I was young enough.
I didn't know any better young and so that kind
of helped. It was just like, Oh, this is the job,
I'll just just go do it. Oh they're throwing a
camera a microphone in my face, Well, I know the issue.
I can just talk about it.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
I mean, how much stress would the press secretary of
the White House.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
After unbelieve I can't imagine.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Like, so your stress at the governor level was insane,
and then you look at the present.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
You have the whole country, in the whole world watching
every single word world.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
I mean, I don't know how they do it.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
I have a great admiration for anybody who has done it.
A lot of them do it. So I've seen a
couple of them speak afterwards. And one of the funniest
times I had that there's Michigan State has a Michigan
Political Leadership Program and they train people who want to
run for office and kind of give them the basic
skill sets and tools. It's very bipartisan. And they had

(30:00):
I've always had a dinner every year, well many years
ago before Kelly and I emerged our firm. She was
moderating one of them. It was in Lavonia and Marlon Fitzwater,
who was Ronald Reagan's press secretary, and Mike McCurry, who
was Bill Clinton's press secretary. They were speaking. They were friends.
They both had great sense as of humor, and Kelly

(30:21):
was talking about Marlon Fitzwater's book and it's like, I
read this every night when I go to bed. It's
on my nightstand. And she's doing this in an introduction
and we all know the Clinton story, with the Monica
Lewinski story. Marlon Fitzwater. His first thing, he says, is
I did not sleep with that woman. The place lost
it and they that was how it started. And so

(30:43):
you have these guys who have been there through Mike McCurry,
I mean, dealing with the Clinton stuff. Yeah, that was
as tough as it gets, yea. And he had a
great sense of humor, and he and Fittswater and it
was just they knew how to make politics and what
they did fun after they left, but they admitted when
they're in the middle of it, there is I mean
the stress level, the impact on your health, everything else.

(31:06):
There's no pressure in the world like being at that podium, do.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
You I almost I mean, I don't want to make
it unfair, but I almost wonder if a press secretary
deals with more stress in a way than the president.
It's just human like just because I'm like, it's not
their decisions, Like a president has tons of stress. But
I'm almost wondering, like if it was me, is it
more stressful to make the decisions or more stressful to

(31:32):
be forced to?

Speaker 1 (31:32):
Like, I think it's more stressful to make them think.
So as press secretary, And one thing that I had
the luxury of is I had access to the governor
at any point that I needed it. I could walk
into his office, I could call him if he's on
the road, whatever, if I need an answer to a question.
And I think the presidential press secretaries for the most part,
have had that kind of access. And so you may

(31:55):
not believe everything that they're doing, but your job is
to represent what they are doing.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
And that viewpoint best way you can.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
Yeah, and so they are, they're transmitting, they're communicating what
their boss is doing, what went into a decision. But
having having the access, it's a lot of information that
has to flow. And if you watch any of the
press secretaries at the point of the direction, I mean,
these these questions are coming left and right, and a

(32:22):
lot of them are very different. They don't follow then
they were path.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
To drill from the bounce over to here.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
I was just listening to one of them just before
I came in, and it's like, oh my gosh, the
and they're joking with the reporters, they're cutting them off.
There's an interplay there that's kind of fun to watch
if you really pay attention to it. But yeah, it's
extremely stressful, but not where it.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah, it was it was a thought. I was like maybe,
and then when I said it out loud, I was like, no,
I know, it's not. It was a bad thought. That's well,
that's cool. I Mean one of the things that people
enjoy or don't enjoy about my show, but people enjoy
is that it is very much like a fluid, like sure,
just kind of follow it. So that was that's so
you I guess I don't know how we got there.
We got there because you dealt with it. And I

(33:06):
asked you the question originally about stress, and you basically said, hey, listen,
put your Basically, the takeaway is, if you're young, put
yourself in some sort of position that's going to grow you.
Whether that's in politics, whether that's in fast food, whether
that's in some sort of job, that's going to get
you out of your comfort zone early, early, and that's

(33:26):
what prepared you to.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
Own a company. You don't have to be in politics,
you don't have to be in government. Volunteer for the
tough assignment. It could be raising money for a charity
in your office, it could be organizing a weekend event
of staff to do something. But get out of your
comfort zone and stretch a little bit, because that'll be
important as you work your way up through the company,

(33:50):
the business, whatever it is, or striking out on your own.
One thing you find when you start a small business,
you you are chief bottle washer, catcher, chef.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
You do every different thing, the in the accounting.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, and then as you grow you can shed some
of those responsibilities and put them on somebody else. But
I think that experience is so valuable because you learn
how things operate, you learn the decisions that go into it.
It's it's very, very helpful, and I think it's a
good grounding to have.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
What so you how many employees do you guys have?

Speaker 1 (34:25):
We have a right round between twenty eight and thirty
that's incredible. I think we're at twenty eight right now.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
And it seems like from what you know, I've emailed
one of your we're talking about one of your employees earlier,
and you guys have the podcast, Like what you makes
a good company culture? Like what's the most because you
can talk about benefits, you get to talk about time off.
But like, I think it goes deeper than that, because,
like you said, people can sniff bull crap a mile away, right,

(34:50):
So like a lot of times companies have the most
toxic work environment have sometimes the best perks. So, like,
what have you found as far as like interpersonal or
you know, deeper than just we offer good benefits. That's
just allowed you to create a culture that people enjoy
working for.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
You know, I think part of it we have some
very core principles of course we learned through the EOS process.
Talk about as well and one of those that do
the right thing. One of those is ignite individual genius,
so kind of both of them. I think people know
we're going to try to make the right decision, to
do it right, do it ethically and honestly. But we

(35:24):
also want to do things for our team that allows
them to excel. And I think just some of our
core principles living by them, giving people opportunity, putting a
good team together so they can you know, in any team,
it's difficult. Sometimes people can carry their weight, sometimes they can't.
I think for the most part, we've got a really

(35:44):
good team where everybody contributes and they can rely on
each other, trust each other. And we've got some unbelievable clients.
Now we've got some that not all measure up. That's business.
We've got some great clients, fun projects. We're making a
difference for people, and then I think gets people to
go to work every day.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
And it makes it fun because if people love what
they do.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yeah, it helps a lot. I'll tell you one example,
our Grand Rapids office. We had we had an office
there for a long long time through COVID. Okay, people
aren't coming in, so we downsized that office we cut
about half the square footage out and then we just
we hired a number of people and we were agnostic

(36:28):
in to where they lived. It didn't matter. It turns
out most of the people we ended up hiring just
happened to be in Grand Rapids, which just kind of happened. Well,
Now we didn't have an office big enough for them
to come into, and it turns out they all wanted
to see each other every day and work together, wanted
to be in person. So we were working out of
the Grand Rapis Chamber offices. We'd get a conference room,
we're working their outer areas. It's set up beautifully for that.

(36:50):
But everybody wanted to be together, so it'll say, oh, shoot,
we've got to get a new office. So we were
in a bigger space in the same building that we
were in. But now everybody comes in. It's flexible. Not
everybody's there by eight thirty or nine. Sometimes they'll they
have stuff with kids in the morning or their pets
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
Or as long as their work it's all from home.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
But then they wandering around ten o'clock, they go lunch together,
they just enjoy being together, talk about projects, and then
late afternoon people start wandering out and going home finishing up.
But it happened organically. We didn't force it, and I
think they appreciate it. I'm more old school. It's ay
be in the office all day every day, and that's
just not the way, not the way things are working

(37:34):
these days. But they're they're kind of doing it on
their own. It's kind of nice to see and it's working. Yeah,
it's definitely working.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
I had an internship with a marketing company and he
said it was my first kind of like job in
corporate America.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
You know.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
I worked at fast food and then I went to
college and I was counselor to camp and then I
had this internship and it was like the first taste
of like, you know, what it's like to work with everyone.
They goes to lunch and then clocking at this time.
And when he was doing my the owner met with me.
Is about a probably a twenty five man marketing company.
You said, Dylan, this is how I run my company.

(38:08):
He said, I don't care if I say I need
you by California to in California by Friday and it's Monday.
I don't care if you walk, if you swim, if
you fly, if you take a boat, if you vacation
along the way and you stop at seven hotels and
road trip. He's like, as long as you're there by Friday,
that's all I care about. And he's like, that's how

(38:29):
I want you to work here. So if we give
you deadlines, it might take you twelve hours in one day,
you know of overtime for us to get those deadlines.
Or if you work efficiently and you can get it
done in two hours and you're still meeting your deadlines, Like,
that's your freedom. Just you just get there to you know,
get to California by Friday. And it was so impactful
to me. So that's how I've ran my interest agency.

(38:50):
That's how I ran everything. It's like, hey, guys, this
is what we have to get done. As long as
it's done, there's freedom.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Yeah. And our teams tend to be very accountable to
each other. Yeah, they're very integrated. Where we most projects,
we have several people on a project, so everybody has
to pull together as a team. And from what I
can tell, they all like each other. They like working together.
Sometimes we have people from the Detroit office working with
the Grand Rapids office or pulling a lancing person whatever

(39:18):
it may be. But it works and our team's been
doing some pretty darn good work.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
I'm really proud of Its awesome. What do you think
the next step? So you start a company? Right, say
no more studios say more, no, say more studio editor?
Just cut that and its kidding and uh so tell
me about that idea? Where'd that go?

Speaker 1 (39:41):
It's a brand. The team brought it to me. They
had a number of different ideas and you know, part
of it you have to how do you monetize it?
It has to work if we're going to invest money
in it. They said, well, trust Scott Rossman is known
as a political firm. So we've got all these new
skills as far as digital and design, creative marketing, all

(40:03):
of these things. But people still think of you as
a it's your firm. You're identified as being political, and
I still have people ask me what campaign are you
working on? And I haven't done a campaign in fifteen years.
I've been out of it.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
And it shows you how impactful you were.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah, I've actually been working around town and Lansing just
letting people in that space know how much we've changed.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
So to try to catch our section up with reality
political campaigns.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
I volunteer for some friends. But yeah, as part of
the business, we don't do anything partisan. We'll do ballot
issues and things like that, but but not partisan political
campaigns anyway. Sorry, continue So Saymour kind of gets around that.
It's a completely different brand and it's focused on creative design,
digital those sorts of things which Trustcott Rossman had never

(40:52):
really done. We always farmed that out anyway, So we're
trying it out when they go in it it doesn't
have the baggage of Trustcott Rossman. It also doesn't have
the benefit because I from being in business a long time,
I know a lot of people around the state. We're
still able to open the doors. But Seymour just has
a different focus and we're trying out seeing it from works.

(41:12):
It seems to be working so far, and the team
is doing some really good creative work.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
What do you look for when so you know, obviously
it needs to bring revenue and someone gives you an idea.
So you've been in business so long, Let's say somebody
presents for you, like, like, I have a business idea, John,
would you just listen to me and what are some
things that you're looking for. Maybe a young entrepreneur like
right now is listening to this and they're just like,
I have idea of this company I want to start.
What are some things that you would make want to

(41:40):
give them advice for when they're creating that company.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
Do your market research and develop a business plan that
you can follow. It doesn't have to have every detail
in it. It doesn't have to be perfect, but you
have to have roadmap that you're going to follow. Who
is your target audience who? How much can you sell
your service or product for? How much do you have
to make before you break even? So, what are you

(42:04):
going to invest, what do you expect to make, how
long you're going to give it before you either invest
more or shut it down? Just some of those basic
things will help. You. Got to have something to measure
it against. You can't just going blindly yeah on this
and it's it's it's a difficult exercise, but it will
also make you better in terms of refining your sales

(42:28):
pitch or your marketing pitch, or your product or service.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Yeah yeah, I think, I mean, and that's something I've
been learning because you know, for seven years I just
sold insurance and with insurance, it's the price is the price,
So like you know, Affleck will say our price for
this is this, and it's like okay, some price. And
then like you know, nine months agohen we started a
video editing company. It's like okay, we can kind of
do whatever we want here. And then doing that market research,

(42:53):
learning what other people are charging. How can we be competitive?
How can we still make a profit. How do we
have a high quality product while also being able to
make a profit. And I was showing my wife last night.
I mean, I'll share that this just shows you kind
of how this game works. So there's a client that
wants me to it is interested in me editing their podcast,

(43:15):
posting for their podcast, and give them coaching. Okay, so
it's like perfect, that's exactly what I want to do.
And so let's just throw out the number like two
grand a month, because like two grand a month, we'll
get your stuff edited, we'll post for you x amount,
like two podcasts per month, ten clips a month, we'll
getting professionally edited, no AI like real people like and

(43:35):
then you get a sixty minute coaching call with me,
and you get some other stuff, right, And my wife's
like two grand a month, like that's awesome, and I
showed her. So I pulled out the Excel spreadsheet. I said,
my profit's three point fifty. Yeah, just because I'm paying
I just hired an integrator, so now like any profit
that would have been mine is going to him to

(43:56):
help pay a salary. And so it was so ie
opening to her. And then when I was breaking the
price and I'm like, I should probably make this three grand,
and then like learning through like but do I price
it three I don't want to lose the business. So
that's what I'm personally going through right now is like
how to price everything? And that's and.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
We've even looked at what are our competitors charging for
this or because we're new in this space in terms
of the whole video production and everything, what are people charging?
What are they offering for that how many hours? Like
you said two podcasts? We do something similar in terms
of these digital uts. Yeah, that you can put on

(44:33):
your LinkedIn account or whatever. And then when you get
to the point where you're offering your quality or your
viewership or whatever it is is a little better than
the next one, then you can bump up your price.
But you have to build a foundation correct to do it.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
First correct, and even if there is and when we're
just like business brainsworm right now. But even if there
is market research to say you can charge higher, a
lot of times those are the organizations that have been
around for twenty years, so they've earned the right to
charge more. But I do think it's also the unique
thing that if you charge two less, people don't take
you seriously.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
So I have it. This has borne out every single
time without fail. Clients who pay the least demand the most.
They are the most costly because it's like, well we can,
we can save a few dollars, but then they come
back and ask you for more and more. We've learned
to navigate that a little bit. It's like, well, that's
beyond the scope of the contract. We'll either have to

(45:29):
charge you hourly or do well, we'll make it up.
But we we didn't used to do that. We've gotten
a lot smarter over the years. But without fail, you know,
somebody's paying your lowest retainer wants the highest amount of
work out of.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
You, and it's tough, especially when you're just starting out,
like you know, even if it's like a lawn care
guy like you know, if a kid's listening to this,
and I know some kids at my church sometimes will
tune in. And if there I know one that's a
lawn care company. And if you have if you're just
starting out and every client matters, it's so easy to
be like, well, there, I should charge forty along, but
they want to pay me thirty. And now I get

(46:03):
it paid something. It's like, it's not always worth it,
you know.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
I go back to when I started my business. You know,
when you're starting out, you take everything. As long as
the check will cash, you'll take it. And I still
kind of almost put myself in that mentality that well,
I want every client. I don't care what they're going
to pay. I just want, you know, I want to
win that project. And we're we're a lot more sophisticated
now and a lot more selective on what we take

(46:29):
and it's a good thing, but still are it's still
in the back of my mind it's like, no, no,
we should take that.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
That's money. Definitely helps it out. And then in reality,
they're going to take up eighty percent of your time
and it not be worth well.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
And that's where my leadership team says, do you know
what that does to our staff if they're just grinding
it out on a client that doesn't really appreciate or
put a value on what we're doing for them, and
that's that's tough on staff. So yeah, that's part of
the decision as well.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
Good lessons. Good, those are great lessons, John. So same
We're thing is going on anything when it comes to
trust us. So you said you're not doing political anymore,
you're doing a lot more other types of pr Uh,
what's the vision for you moving forward? Like is it
just to keep are you wanting to get multi state?
Are you wanting to grow it to where it's national?

Speaker 1 (47:15):
Like, yeah, good question. We do a lot of projects
that for Washington, d C. Based you know, for example
public affairs project, they subcontract things out to us. Okay,
we are talking to one client right now that we've
really helped in the metro Detroit area and they're expanding
into other states, and we said, how about if you

(47:35):
let us manage the process for you so you're not
now dealing with multiple firms in multiple states. Will be
that funnel for you. I know the firms really well,
they're phenomenal, and I would bring them in and then
subcontract it out. So yeah, I do see a little
bit of expansion into that. That could be a model
that we could follow into other Midwestern states. And I

(47:57):
think we're on a good growth path with offering new services.
We have new talent, and I want to keep growing that.
West Michigan is phenomenally a great place to live and
work and there's a lot of growth potential still there.
We are building out our Detroit team, our Southeast Michigan team.

(48:19):
We've got a few really good people that are just
lighting it up right now and they're starting to get
attention and attract new clients in. So there's a lot
of things good things going on right now. We just
have to manage it and make sure we don't get
too overextended, but don't spend too much money hiring up
before the business is in and just what's that cycle

(48:39):
on the clients.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
Scaling is stuff knowing when do you pour money, when
do you hire extra people?

Speaker 1 (48:44):
Espescially in a personal services business, it's extremely difficult.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
What makes it tough for in a personal services.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
Business if you're selling a product and you know what
the production, what the sales cycle is, and you're on
a certain trajectory you can kind of ren Yeah, yeah, okay,
personal services. You've got all of these people and you
ramp up to take this number of clients. In the
next month, three clients leave. Now what do you do.
We've you've hired some really good people. You don't want

(49:12):
to let them go, but you can't carry that cost
indefinitely without backfilling. So it's a it's a tricky balancing act.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
How often what's the lead time that your client will
let you know that you're probably going to be done? Like,
how much time do you normally have? Does it defend?

Speaker 1 (49:27):
Sometimes it's a couple of months. Sometimes it's we we
have in most of our contracts a one month out clause. Okay,
so you know there's just basically one more cycle that
that we can build. But it's across the board, there's
no Sometimes they run into financial problems. Sometimes we the project,

(49:48):
we solve the problem for them. You just you just
never know.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Yeah, so there's always a bittersweet. You know, you grad
they graduate, right, you accomplished.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
Our way out of a client. Yeah, yeah, you.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Did so good. You've lost revenue. That's got to be
a fun dichotomy to go through.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
You know, but then they may have another project and
come back in the future.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Or they know somebody or whatever. It works.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
I mean, we're in the business of solving problems or
providing solutions, and you know, we have to recognize sometimes
a product project just runs its course.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
That's awesome, man. Well I give my guests always an
opportunity to do this before we wrap up. We've been
talking for an hour already. Really yeah, fifty three. Yeah,
it's fun. Like I did a two hour podcast once
and the guest was like, dude, that was like thirty minutes, right, Yeah, Like, dude,
we've been here since like three or whatever, like five o'clock.
But I always give guests an opportunity to promo something,
so like where can people find you? If it's a

(50:41):
creative digital marketing type thing, like they can they can
look at say more if it's more pr but like,
let people know where they can find you in any
specific client that you think would be like a really
good fit.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Yeah, Truscott Rossman dot com, t r U s c O,
t t r O, s s M a N dot
com and you can get to say more link and
there as well, you can see some of the work
we're doing there. Follow us on LinkedIn. We're work across
all the channels, putting out fun stuff.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Killer podcasts on LinkedIn. I've enjoyed watching it.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
They have fun doing that. I've appeared on one or two.
They tend to go and do these without me. For
some recent they're going, why are we doing that for you?
But no, we don't have anything really to promote except
we're just doing good work for our clients. And so
if you have an issue, a problem where you know
somebody who would like to communicate to a broader audience

(51:30):
to the public, let us go. We'd love to help.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
Awesome man. Well, John, I appreciate it. So, guys, John
drove three I mean he was in the Detroit office today, right,
But I like to say you drove three hours for
me today.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
I did, and I'm driving three hours back.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
So thank you very much. Thank you for making the drive.
I think you officially have taken the longest drive for
anyone who's been on the podcast. I had somebody come up.
I think they were from gr Though Grand Rapids, so
I think you're a little far.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
I'm above thirty five miles further.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
So you took it. Yeah, congratulations John. I guess you'ld
give you a plaque or something right now, but it
was GluN to do it. Yeah, thanks for coming on,
and I appreciate the wisdom. I think a lot of
people are gonna be blessed by just hearing a successful entrepreneur,
someone who's built a company, worked with a ton of
great clients. But a thirty man company is no joke. Like,
that's a lot of payroll, that's a lot of people

(52:20):
cutting on you. And I think what I always encourage
people is to talk more, don't talk less, learn from
people that have done it before, learn from people like you,
And so I appreciate you giving wisdess.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
Surround yourself with a good team too when you can. Yeah,
that's it's invaluable.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Just finding those people. Yeah, that's another conversation is how
do you find good people? But we'll get that the
next podcast before we keep going. Thank you guys for
coming to this episode of The Dyllan England Show. I
appreciate you guys a lot. Check out John and his company.
Whether you're looking for pr help, you're looking to get
a story out there or now with some creative elopments too,
they can help you with all of it. All the

(52:56):
links will be in the description, so I'll make sure
all the websites link. Check it out right now and
subscribe to this show. Share with a friend as always,
John Heys for coming on brother, glad to do it,
Appreciate it and see guys in the next one h