October 27, 2023 • 38 mins
This week's episode is truly an outlet where we can learn to "see clearly, and act wisely". Michael Messer is sitting down Karen Bogans, the Communications Manager of International Paper's Savannah, Georgia Containerboard Mill. Karen is also in charge of International Paper's philanthropic activities in Savannah and the surrounding communities.
Karen gives us insight into strategies around corporate and foundation giving, as well as useful tips for nonprofit leaders in growing and maintaining relationships with companies in their community.
Proudly produced by Dee Daniels Media
Learn more about the voices in this episode:
International Paper Savannah, GA
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
What does growth look like in your business in your life as a business owner,
executive or individual,
you can live and lead with intention to create the change you want to see in your community and the world.
Welcome to the Discerning Strategies Podcast,
a place where we can see clearly and act wisely.
(00:31):
Hi,
everybody.
This is Michael Messer.
You're a host of the Discerning Strategies podcast.
And today I'm really happy to be joined by Karen Bogans.
She is the Communications Manager of International Paper,
Savannah,
Georgia Container Board Mill and among the many things that she does,
she is also in charge of international papers,
philanthropic activities in Savannah and the surrounding communities.
(00:55):
And today we're gonna have a really cool conversation about corporate philanthropy and like what that all looks like.
Hey,
Karen,
how's it going?
Hi,
Michael.
It's going great.
And thank you so much for having me.
I'm always excited to talk about international paper and our giving.
Absolutely.
And uh it's really interesting,
we just had um a conversation on this podcast around how businesses can be more intentional in the community and what that means for us and people who listen to this podcast is like,
(01:24):
you know,
how can they make a better choice and do some good and kind of lead with their values and,
and move the needle for better in communities and this conversation like international Paper,
it's a big company help us understand like what's important about philanthropy for you.
Oh,
gosh.
Well,
you know,
international paper worldwide,
(01:44):
we have,
um we have the International Paper Foundation and that's at many of our facilities um worldwide.
So depending on where you are in the world,
that kind of drives your focus in a way,
right?
Um But we do have the signature causes that we support.
And those are,
those have pretty much been standard since I've been here.
(02:05):
I've been in this role actually for 13 years.
So our signature causes are education,
hunger,
health and wellness.
And then we do have a um a section for critical community needs signature environmental causes and employee involvement as well.
And I can drill down on each of those um as we talk,
(02:27):
but it's just important and when I talk to uh new hires that uh are,
are hired here in at the facility,
I always tell them um to whom much is given much is expected because we are such a large company as you've stated.
And it's important that we give back,
you know,
many of our mills like container board mills where I am,
(02:50):
many of them are in the boondocks.
Basically,
I mean,
they're way out,
um,
in the sticks.
But like our facility,
we are five miles from downtown Savannah.
So,
and people are surprised and we sit in the middle of three communities,
West Savannah,
um,
Hudson Hill and,
um,
Woodville.
So it's very important for us to be good neighbors at all times.
(03:12):
Not just with our giving,
our monetary giving,
but also with our in kind giving as well.
So,
it's,
it's just very important for a large company with,
with this larger footprint as we have to make sure we're good stewards and good community neighbors.
Yeah,
it's interesting.
You talk about incoming employees,
right?
And so you're catching these folks,
right,
when they're coming in the door.
(03:33):
Um,
I'm curious when you've got,
you know,
new folks,
what does it mean for them to be working for a company that's actually trying to give back to the community?
Honestly,
I don't think a lot of them really get the scope of it.
Um,
because,
you know,
they come to our facility,
(03:54):
they don't realize the magnitude,
um,
of how large this company really is.
So many of them when I'm talking to them,
they,
you know,
and they've come from other places,
you know,
other companies who,
who've had giving programs as well.
Um,
they may not have been as familiar with them with what that company does,
but I make sure they know these are the things that we do,
(04:14):
as a matter of fact,
I'm gonna be talking to our new hires tomorrow.
We have a group about,
I think it's about 25 new people and I'm going to be talking to them tomorrow about all the ways that we give through United Way,
giving,
through our in kind,
giving,
through our foundation,
giving and through our sponsorship,
giving.
And,
and it's changed over the years since I've been here,
(04:35):
honestly,
because there was a time when we didn't have a lot of turnover,
but now because we are having more turnover and more people who are kind of starting in a career or in a different career.
I'll be honest,
they're not as committed to giving as some of our,
you know,
our veterans,
so to speak.
(04:56):
Um,
so makes it a little bit more difficult,
um,
for them to understand the importance of what we do here and why we do and why do we have,
you know,
clothing drives,
why do we have canned food drives?
Why do we have school supply drives,
you know,
um,
and ask for folks to participate,
but it's important and,
but I just hope over time they will understand how important it is.
(05:19):
You know,
it's interesting because I ha I have a,
um,
a view on it and you're saying something a little bit different.
So I just,
I kind of wanna look at it a little bit like so many people I talk to get frustrated about how their role in an organization can be filled with purpose.
And so many people,
(05:39):
I think generationally,
we're seeing younger folks coming into the workforce who pretty consistently when you look at research and studies say,
I feel like I wanna work with an employer that has a purpose beyond profit.
And so now you're telling the story about people coming into the the floor,
you know,
that might not have had a long experience with international paper.
And that's kind of a question mark for them.
(06:01):
How do you see that change over time as they stick in this culture that has puts philanthropy as an important cultural pillar?
Does that change?
Do you see people get more engaged?
What does that look like?
Do you see people get more engaged because we don't stop,
right.
We're going to have our United Way campaign every year.
We're going to do our Canned Food drive every year and as they see their peers contributing,
(06:26):
um they begin to kind of get the message and get the understanding that,
oh,
this is important,
this is what we do and I try to impress upon them all the time.
This is what we do here,
you know,
and,
and,
and I do understand there are so many competing priorities people are giving at their church,
you know,
people are giving,
you know,
their,
their,
their kids,
(06:46):
girl scouts,
boy scouts,
you know,
all those things that you know,
they're doing outside of the job.
But if we have about almost 700 people here.
So if you think if everybody brought one can good,
that would be a lot.
You know,
everybody brought,
you know,
one pack of pencils that we donate to a school.
That would be a lot.
So,
(07:06):
you know,
it,
it just takes time,
it just takes time.
Yeah,
that's kind of one of the running themes I think of this conversation that we have on this podcast,
which is impact can be really small.
And,
you know,
when you're aggregating people and you're able to start seeing this idea about the importance of giving back to the community.
You're not just in my mind,
it,
it's not just that you're creating a good culture of giving within international paper,
(07:33):
but when they do leave,
they're taking that ethos and that philosophy back out into the,
the community and they were able to give and,
and feel impactful even by just giving a can of soup or exactly a backpack,
you know,
or whatever the,
the,
the school drive need is.
Right.
Exactly.
And then with our,
(07:54):
um,
one of our categories for our IP foundation is employee involvement.
So if you are an employee and you're involved in an organization,
and I tell people that means you're involved,
that's not something that you just know about or you kind of loosely,
you know,
drop by,
you're either on the board,
you volunteer with them if that nonprofit submits an application to us and they list your name as an employee that gets a little harder look for funding because we want to support your efforts out in the community.
(08:28):
Part of our 2030 vision is that we impact 100 million lives.
Yeah.
So you're talking about all of our facilities,
all the work that we do impacting 100 million people worldwide.
And the way we keep up with that,
we have a,
a system called my impact.
So every community project we do,
(08:51):
we enter it into my impact.
We enter in the volunteers and we start collecting those hours.
So everything counts,
everything counts,
everything matters.
Uh I,
I do a little bit of strategy work with,
with organizations in,
in my coaching business.
And uh we talk about big hairy audacious goals and,
(09:12):
uh you know,
uh you know,
that's a kind of a common strategic planning thing to think about,
but what a beautiful one to have,
which is to have a positive impact on 100 million lives.
That's big carry and audacious to think about a million.
And whenever I talk to people,
I say 100 million lives and it takes a lot of people to impact a lot of people.
(09:36):
But again,
we're,
you know,
nearly 700 here,
we've got another mill in Louisiana,
Manville,
Louisiana.
They have um close to 800 people.
You know,
we've got another mill down the road here,
Port Wentworth.
They've got about 300 people.
So when you start adding all those people together and if you can do one thing,
(09:57):
two things,
three things in a year,
company wide,
we'll get that goal.
We'll pro we'll have it before 2030 we'll have it way before 2030.
0,
yeah.
I mean,
and again,
it's,
it's not asking for the moon from any one person.
It's really just asking them like,
you know what I'm hearing you say is like,
you kind of want to hear from them,
(10:17):
right?
You're talking to your employees,
what's important to you,
how do you want to give?
So like there's a flexibility there and there's like uh an awareness of like maybe a little bit of agility to think about.
Well,
how can we help in these places?
Right.
Absolutely.
And you know,
everybody,
everything doesn't move everybody,
right?
So we have different things,
some people and there was a time when um when I was an executive director of a nonprofit prior to coming here and I would talk to my board and say,
(10:44):
you know,
understanding that some people are moved by babies,
some people wanna give to young people,
some people wanna give to older people,
some people,
you know,
are moved by pets or,
you know,
just different things,
all things aren't for all people.
But once you find your niche,
your sweet spot of what you are passionate about.
And we have so many things that our folks can get involved with that.
(11:08):
Um You know,
there's something for everybody,
there's literally something for everybody.
Yeah,
you're touching on something that's really interesting,
which is,
you know,
how do you,
we,
we talk about this sometimes,
like how do you select an organization or how do you select a cause that's gonna be really resonant?
And I think you're 100% right?
But it makes it hard because everybody brings something different to the table,
(11:29):
right?
Oh my goodness.
You know,
when we get our uh foundation applications,
um I have a group of people,
group of employees,
their hourly and salary employees and we review them and we have um I'll say spirited conversations about,
you know,
who should get and who,
who we should give to and the amounts that we should give to.
(11:52):
And um again,
some people are passionate about one thing,
some people are passionate about another thing but we can always come to,
you know,
some understanding but,
and I tell them everybody's doing a good work,
right?
Everybody's doing something but of course we,
we're,
you know,
we're limited by our budget,
you know what we can give and then there are other parameters that we have to look at.
(12:14):
Again,
you know,
is this within our signature cause you know,
do,
does this fit,
are there any restrictions here that we can't find?
You know,
it,
there's a,
there's a method to the madness but um you know,
we try to do.
I used to say we try to do a little bit for a lot of people but as time has gone on we really do a lot for many people.
(12:36):
Mhm.
Yeah,
this method to your madness.
I think one of the things that I worry about is that smaller businesses,
you know,
business is much smaller than international paper.
Certainly wanna do good in your community.
And then they look at an international paper and they see all of the stuff you're doing and it feels completely overwhelming because they,
(12:57):
they,
they,
they say to themselves,
oh,
gosh,
like I can't have that impact.
So maybe I shouldn't try or it just seems remote.
What would you say to that?
I would say,
find your interest,
find what it is that your people are passionate about and go for it.
I mean,
(13:17):
there's companies larger than ours.
You know,
whenever you go to these events around town,
you see,
you know,
you're presenting sponsors,
you see Georgia Ports Authority,
you see Gulf Stream,
you see JCB.
I mean,
you see different people,
you know,
sometimes we're up at the top,
sometimes we're not up at the top.
But that doesn't mean we don't do it.
That doesn't mean we don't participate.
That doesn't mean we don't,
(13:37):
you know,
contribute,
just do what you can,
I would just say do what you can do what you can.
I love that.
So help me think about like when you started in this role in 13 years.
You said you've been in this role and you've got your signature causes that you mentioned.
How did you even go about identifying the things that were going to move the needle?
(14:01):
Now,
some of this might have come from like,
you know,
up,
up top,
like,
you know,
corporate,
but this idea of there's so much work that needs to be done in our communities.
How do you go about selecting it?
Like,
what would you say to maybe a smaller business that might wanna select a cause on how to figure out what's the thing that's gonna work for them again,
(14:22):
because we do have these signature causes.
So with the foundation giving,
we're,
you know,
that we've got a color within those lines.
First of all,
um now I do a lot of reading and talking to people in the community.
So if I see an organization that's had a lot of upsets,
like within a year,
they've had maybe three executive directors or,
(14:45):
you know,
different things of that nature,
that may be an organization that maybe we don't fund right now because they're having some challenges.
But I would say for,
you know,
for any company just,
just kind of keep your ear to the ground,
know what's going on in the community,
what know what the top needs are.
You know,
(15:05):
again,
everybody does good work.
But there are certain times when there are certain things that are greater need than others.
Right.
I mean,
like now housing is a hot topic.
Homelessness is a hot topic,
although it's always that way.
But now,
especially so because COVID,
um,
revealed so many things about lack of housing and homelessness and,
(15:27):
you know,
security and things of that nature.
Those are things that I look at,
uh,
now a little bit harder than some of the other areas as well as food insecurity.
Yeah,
those basic needs,
you know,
it's really hard to think about,
you know,
workforce development and all of these other things that we,
we want to work on.
(15:47):
If people don't have a roof over their head or have enough food to support their Children or child care is another enormous one.
Right?
Uh You know,
thing though,
Michael because I'm,
I'm the board chair for economic opportunity,
uh of Savannah and we have a workforce development piece.
Uh,
they have a very large head start program.
(16:09):
But what I keep telling my board members and my executive director as well,
I said,
look,
if we can't get a person,
a job,
you know,
getting a person employed that helps a lot of those things.
Right.
Absolutely.
It's like where on the circle do you start?
Right.
Where on the circle do you start?
(16:29):
I can give you a house.
But are you gonna be able to pay your mortgage,
your rent,
your taxes,
your upkeep?
But if I get you a job,
you're gonna be able to do those things.
If you get a job,
you're gonna have some kind of health care.
If I get you a job you're gonna be able to pay for some of these basic needs.
You know.
So it's not just always,
I don't,
(16:50):
I personally don't think it's not always about just giving the basic,
just giving it.
It's about what's gonna make the greatest impact.
What's gonna,
if you give them that one thing and kind of hit that domino,
is it gonna make the other dominoes fall or not?
Yeah,
you're touching on again.
One of my favorite things to talk about here is about being intentional.
(17:11):
Like how do you create the intentional impact that you wanna see?
So when you're sitting there and you've got,
you know,
by virtue of where you say you,
you see a lot of things come to you and then you're also out in the community talking to people.
How do you think about where you can actually move the needle and create the greatest impact given all of this opportunity to do?
(17:33):
So I think again,
just,
just looking at some of the root causes.
OK.
Looking at some of the root causes some of,
of some of these issues that we have.
And can we make a little dent in a root?
Cause I,
I had a conversation yesterday with some folks out in San Francisco and they were talking about businesses acting almost as coalition partners around root causes.
(17:58):
It's so interesting that you say that and it's funny because one of the things I think that holds businesses back,
right is that they feel like they have to do it alone when in fact,
you can partner with other organizations,
both,
both your community partners and nonprofits,
your city,
your state,
your local government,
as well as other businesses.
Where do you see based on your work business is really needing to step in and kind of come together to start working on root causes like where,
(18:25):
what are the hot buttons for you where more work needs to be done and you need more foot shoulders to do the good thing.
That's a little tough because as much as you wanna do,
sometimes there's just some lines that you can't step over,
right,
you just can't step over them.
Um We,
(18:45):
we go through a process here.
It's interesting.
It's called RC FA root cause failure analysis.
And that's anytime like there's an upset or a big upset in the process or anything like that,
we sit down and we really dissect,
you know what happened,
why it happened and how not to let it happen again.
Maybe that's a process that,
(19:06):
you know,
people can,
we can all get together and sit down and figure out these root cause failure analysis.
Maybe everybody can take maybe a little piece,
a little piece of it,
you know,
because one person can't obviously do it all.
I don't care how big international paper is,
we can't do it all and,
and there's no reason why anybody should try to do it all right.
(19:26):
But again,
I think we have to be very careful on how we approach things,
approach people,
approach these situations because,
you know,
there are a lot of moving parts.
No,
they're,
they're really tricky complicated issues that have been with us for,
you know,
generations really.
Uh or in some cases since the beginning of time it feels like.
Um but you're,
(19:47):
you're touching on something that's important,
which is this idea of limits.
One of the reasons I feel like some businesses tend not to go as far as they could in the community is they feel like it needs to be,
it's like a black hole.
Like it's never gonna stop taking,
taking resources,
time,
money and effort.
And my take on that is,
(20:07):
yeah,
you just need to understand where your limits are.
How do you think?
How would you,
what would you suggest to companies that are looking to do philanthropic work?
But understand the need for limits?
Like how do you set those limits?
What do those look like?
Well,
11 limit is gonna be your budget,
your money.
Um Another limit is gonna be your manpower.
Um Another limit is going to be,
(20:30):
am I doing something that there's somebody out,
somebody out there already doing?
I can't tell you how many organizations will submit an application here and I read them and I'm thinking,
are they partnering with this person with this group?
Are they partnering with that group?
And sometimes,
and I,
I have the ability to go in my system and send their application back and say,
(20:51):
hey,
maybe you should give so and so a call because you're duplicating.
So we can kind of combine some of these folks together.
Um So they can work together.
So you're not giving,
I don't know,
10 agencies,
$1000 you're giving one group,
$10,000 right?
(21:12):
And they're able to make a greater impact.
So,
and that's the same thing I would say for companies just,
you know,
take,
take a small piece,
just take a piece and then maybe partner,
like you said,
with some of these non,
you know,
some of these nonprofits who,
you know,
we wanna work in the area or are working in the area that we want to work in.
But again,
we just have to be,
(21:33):
you know,
we have to be careful,
we do have government,
we have local governments,
you know,
who are doing some of these things as well.
So you're looking at nonprofit,
you're looking at governments and you're looking at industry all combined.
Yeah,
absolutely.
I,
I'm curious,
you know,
based on your experience,
um,
what I guess sort of a warning,
like,
(21:54):
what caution would you give to businesses in terms of when you've seen?
Well,
meaning businesses go into partner effectively in the community and then it just didn't quite go according to plan.
Is there,
is there something that you would,
you would kind of propose?
Hey,
you really need to keep your eye on these things or be cognizant of it as you start developing these partnerships.
(22:18):
What would those be?
You need to look at the age of the organization?
You need to look again at the stability.
How long has this executive director been there?
Another thing that I look at is where are the majority of your board members from?
Are they local?
Are these people who are,
you know,
I mean,
I've seen applications where the board members are in Boston or,
(22:41):
um,
Idaho or New York or California and those types of things,
I think.
Hmm.
Are those folks really that connected with what's going on right here in Savannah,
Georgia?
So those are the types of things they need to look at,
they need to look at tenure,
they need to look at,
uh,
and,
and even the organization's finances as well.
(23:02):
A absolutely.
I think that what you're talking about is here's leadership matters,
right.
Oh,
it absolutely matters.
It absolutely matters.
It's,
um,
it's a little disheartening sometimes when you have three people calling from one organization about the same thing because they're not co-ordinated,
(23:22):
you know,
and,
and they're asking you the exact same thing and I'm like,
well,
I just got a call from.
So and so,
you know,
have you talked to such and such about this?
And they're like,
oh,
you know,
they're surprised and I'm thinking you shouldn't be surprised.
Well,
and also,
I mean,
your background,
you said that you used to be an executive director before you took on this role,
right?
Tell me a little bit about that.
(23:42):
Like,
what was the cause?
Like,
what were you doing out in the community?
I was an executive director for the first t of Savannah.
It's a golf skills,
life skills program for young people.
Um based on core values,
the headquarters was in uh Saint Augustine,
Florida at the World Golf Village.
And it's a very,
it was a,
it's a great character building program for young people.
(24:03):
You're shaking your head,
you're familiar,
I'm not familiar with it,
but I've seen a lot of programs that try to tap into an innate interest,
particularly in youth to try to provide character building skills and you don't have to look far these days to see how lack of character is hurting us as a community.
Right?
Yeah.
And,
and part of the golf piece was to um introduce the game of golf to those communities who are not historically involved in the game of golf,
(24:30):
right?
So usually those are minority communities.
So we would outreach to um you know,
many of the public schools,
we had a um we had a program in the schools,
we had a,
a girls golf program,
um,
that took off really well and it was just a great experience.
I learned so much in my time with the first t,
(24:51):
um,
just a lot of different lessons about giving about who gives about when people give j,
just a lot of different lessons about,
um,
about being on that nonprofit side.
And it's a hustle.
If anybody tells you working in a nonprofit is not a hustle,
it is a hustle because every day you're thinking about where can I get my next donor?
(25:14):
Where can I get my next donation?
When is the next fundraiser?
You're not even done with one fundraiser before you're working on the next fundraiser?
I mean,
it's a hustle NSA grind.
Oh,
absolutely.
I am the first person to,
to,
to shine light on our nonprofit leaders because I mean,
let me be clear,
the job is just as hard as running any team or any company out there.
(25:37):
It's the same issues,
but with far fewer resources and problems that are intractable sometimes.
Right?
Uh So now I,
I fully appreciate that.
I would say it's a great segue into like maybe flipping it around a little bit,
like,
you know,
based on your nonprofit experience,
(25:58):
if you're an executive director or you're within a community based organization and you want to partner with the business community,
what advice or what,
what words of wisdom would you give those organizations to kind of get a leg up and start developing the resources and networks in the community that they need to serve their mission most appropriately.
(26:22):
I'm happy to answer that because I talk to organizations about this all the time.
Um One thing you need to do is you find out who that giving giving person is that giving officer is in the company.
Um And you try to meet with them face to face beyond an email beyond just a phone call,
beyond just sending them your sponsorship package because your next event is coming up.
(26:47):
Um,
but try to meet with that person.
Say yes,
many of us are busy.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes,
we're absolutely busy.
But I'll tell you,
I do take time.
Matter of fact,
I have a young lady working for me right now and,
um,
and I was just like,
oh my gosh,
I'm so busy.
She said,
you know why?
She said you take every phone call,
you take every meeting,
you answer every email.
(27:08):
And I said,
well,
that's what I'm supposed to do.
But I can't tell you how many people just send something and be like,
you know,
please give or give or,
and I'm thinking,
who,
who is this?
Well,
you're,
you're talking about the,
the importance of a relationship.
You need to create a relationship where people,
you've got to create a relationship.
(27:28):
And I tell people this all the time and then,
and I'll tell people all the time,
I'll say,
hey,
you know,
if we're,
if we find something,
hey,
invite me,
invite me.
So I can see,
you know,
where our money is going,
invite me.
So I can see this program that you said was so great and we,
you know,
provided some funding for invite sometimes I don't hear from them until the next year.
(27:53):
So it is definitely about creating a relationship with that individual.
Well,
it's interesting too,
you know what you just said is like on the,
on the the donor side of the equation,
right,
like,
show up and get involved,
like,
like what you really would love when you were an executive director is having those people show up and be more than just a check because that's where the engagement happens more,
(28:17):
more magic can happen with that relationship.
The check is important,
but like show up and be part of the mission as well.
Right.
Right.
Show up um with the first tea,
it was great because we,
we have golfers are very generous people,
they're extremely generous people,
people.
Um And since we have,
you know,
so many golfing communities around here and many people are retired,
(28:39):
you know,
they would come out and volunteer,
they would give their time,
they would give their wisdom to these young people.
So it was great.
Um We never really struggle really,
honestly for volunteers that was never one of our struggles.
Um And they didn't mind cutting checks either.
So you know,
that,
that was my heart.
Yeah,
that was a great combination.
(29:00):
But I know,
you know,
we were fortunate in that.
Um,
first he was fortunate in that and everybody's not that fortunate.
But,
and I don't know if people think,
you know,
being exec,
the executive director is a,
you know,
luxurious role.
You know,
because,
you know,
executive director,
it's a,
it's a hustle and it's,
and it's a grind.
(29:21):
I think that you an executive director stands for exhausted all the ed.
I know they are weary.
I'm telling you very weary and um but it's very um it's very fulfilling when you see your work,
then you see the result of your work and you know that the mission that you're working towards is it,
(29:44):
it is a good one.
Yeah,
it occurs to me.
So,
you know,
you've been talking about international papers giving and you've been clear,
like you've got certain guidelines,
like you're a big company.
So like there's,
you know,
you've got your,
your criteria,
you've got your,
your signature areas that you wanna be in.
And,
you know,
I I've been involved with the United Way and a number of other organizations philanthropically right there is a level of organization in the community that probably isn't going to meet your criteria.
(30:12):
Ok?
They're small.
They might be duplicating services,
they might just be starting out.
There may be a passion project for somebody who really cares deeply about a specific issue or cause putting your Ed hat on for a minute,
what do you think those smaller organizations,
what's kind of the most important thing that they can be thinking about to elevate themselves and get to the level that an international paper or a United Way or a Savannah Foundation,
(30:45):
you know,
might be like,
hey,
now we can start coming in and partnering with you.
What's that like?
They just really need to start building as organically as possible.
You know,
it,
it may start out small,
you know,
ones,
twos,
threes,
fours.
But then find those people who again are passionate about what you're doing,
(31:08):
right?
If it's something in health and wellness,
find those people look for those opportunities to go to those events,
you know,
and I'm not saying,
you know,
buy $100 ticket for every event in Savannah 100 and $50 ticket.
But I'm saying,
go to some of these smaller events and tap into some of these folks and say,
hey,
you know,
this is what you have your elevator speech,
right?
(31:28):
The famous elevator speech.
This is what we're doing.
This is what,
you know,
this is our mission and we'd really like for you to come by or we'd really like for you to,
to see what we're doing.
I mean,
you,
you,
you almost have to be the pavement.
Absolutely.
You gotta,
well,
the dreaded elevator speech too.
You gotta practice the elevator speech.
I I,
you know,
the number of the number of folks that don't have that down cold.
(31:49):
Uh Hey,
I know a business coach for you if you need one,
but in any event,
one of the opportunities,
um II I think for particularly smaller businesses is you talked about don't duplicate and basically mind the gap,
figure out where things aren't being duplicated.
But one way that I think smaller businesses can really have a catalytic effect on the community is to maybe work with a grassroots organization,
(32:15):
be that seed business that helps them take it to the next level,
open your network up,
start talking about it like,
right?
Like if you can find a really values aligned organization out there and a cause that's really resonant for you as the business owner,
maybe one of the impacts you can have is to be the catalyst to try to lift that organization up.
(32:39):
So an international paper or a united way can,
can then go in because of the restrictions that they have on what they're able to do.
Right.
Yeah,
that's true.
I mean,
we have uh organizations that apply and I look online and I think it may even be in our um in our guidelines that if you're less than,
you know,
x you know,
years old,
you know,
that we,
(33:00):
we can't really,
you know,
fund you because part of the,
and let me tell you the rationale behind that is because if you're so young and let's say,
you know,
you're granted five grand,
six or 10 grand,
15 grand from us.
Um Where's your other money is coming from?
Right.
Where's your other money?
Where's your other support coming from?
(33:21):
So that you can be sustainable?
We want you to be sustainable.
So there's like we have a limit on,
you know,
how much we can give,
you know,
based on your budget,
we're not gonna give you 100% of your operating costs.
You know,
we're not gonna give you 50% of your operating costs.
Organizations have to be very cognizant of that and I watch,
(33:41):
you know,
I'm on,
I'm on social media and I watch some organizations when they start out and they first come to me.
Oh,
you know,
can,
you know,
can you give,
you know,
this and,
and I'm like,
well,
you know,
you,
you need to get a little bit more traction,
a little bit more traction and maybe let's let's use a,
a food program for an example.
Maybe they're starting off small.
Maybe you need to partner with second harvest for a little bit and do something and grow a little bit.
(34:06):
You know,
maybe you need to,
uh I think there's an organization called Pack.
Maybe you need to partner with them for a little bit and do a little bit and then grow a little bit more and grow a little bit more.
So,
you know,
people need to understand,
partnerships are powerful and even if you're duplicating services,
you may have a special niche,
you may have a niche that they're not reaching.
(34:27):
Absolutely.
It's,
it's again both on both sides.
It's,
it's about finding the gap for the donors who want to lean into the community partnership.
But it's also particularly in a community like Savannah where there's a lot of nonprofits like find the unmet need.
That's what's powerful here,
right?
That's really where the impact,
where the impact comes from.
(34:48):
I love that.
So let me ask you just kind of,
if we were to sort of wrap things up a little bit when you think about advice that you would give to individuals that are looking to connect with organizations that maybe somebody feels like they're not being used to their greatest purpose in life.
(35:10):
Um What would you say to them in terms of going out there and,
and connecting with,
with folks in their community and giving back just like being an executive director.
It's a hustle and it's a grind.
You have to keep,
you have to stay connected,
you've got to stay connected to the news,
you've got to stay connected to your social media.
You've got to be where these people are,
(35:32):
they're not gonna come to you.
You have to be where they are.
If you,
you see something's going on,
you need to be have as they used to say,
have your face in the place.
Yeah,
So if you want to be part of the community and you want to find your purpose,
like my spin on that would be,
get a little curious and go out and start talking to people and being part of the conversation.
(35:53):
Right.
Figure out what's going on.
Absolutely.
I mean,
there and I have watched Savannah Grow so much.
I'm a native of Savannah,
um,
graduate of Beach High school,
go bulldogs.
Um,
and there was a time when I was younger,
when I,
when I went off to college,
I was like,
I'll never live in Savannah.
There's nothing going on in Savannah.
(36:13):
But I'm telling you,
there's a lot going on in Savannah.
And people in Savannah are very generous even though I,
I talked about the golfing community,
but people in Savannah are very generous with their time,
with their ideas,
with their talents.
So and again,
there's something for everybody and not only is there something for everybody,
there's enough for everybody.
(36:35):
I love that.
So if,
if uh is there anything that you wanna put out into the community in terms of,
if there are organizations that need to seek you out some contact information or are you?
Certainly.
And I,
and I will tell you,
Michael,
there's many been many people who've called me and I've talked them through,
you know,
their ask,
(36:55):
I've talked them through,
you know,
whether they should submit an application with us or not because maybe you shouldn't right now,
you know,
maybe you should look to,
to do something else at this time.
Um,
so I don't have a problem,
you know,
having those conversations with people.
So my email address is Karen.
That's Karen dot Bogans,
(37:18):
B as in boy Ogans.
That's Karen dot Bogans at ipa.com.
And my desk number is 9122387347.
So they can certainly call me and,
um,
you know,
I'll do what I can to help.
Maybe I can steer them in the right direction.
(37:38):
I get a lot of stuff comes across my,
my,
a lot of stuff comes across my desk and I tell people that all the time,
hey,
you know,
make,
but,
and you've got to stay in touch not to the point where you're like,
you know,
every day,
every day,
every day.
But you,
you've got to stay in touch because so much comes in,
you know,
new information in old information out and I'm happy to help because I,
(37:59):
because I've been on the other side and I know what it's like.
Yeah,
be connected people.
That's what it sounds like,
be connected and show up.
That's half a life.
That's right.
That's right.
Well,
thank you,
Karen so much for joining us on this chat and helping us understand a little bit about IP uh international paper and uh philanthropy in the community.
(38:22):
It was great talking to you anytime,
anytime you can find Michael Messer at discerning strategies.com.
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(00:31):
Hi,
everybody.
This is Michael Messer.
You're a host of the Discerning Strategies podcast.
And today I'm really happy to be joined by Karen Bogans.
She is the Communications Manager of International Paper,
Savannah,
Georgia Container Board Mill and among the many things that she does,
she is also in charge of international papers,
philanthropic activities in Savannah and the surrounding communities.
(00:55):
And today we're gonna have a really cool conversation about corporate philanthropy and like what that all looks like.
Hey,
Karen,
how's it going?
Hi,
Michael.
It's going great.
And thank you so much for having me.
I'm always excited to talk about international paper and our giving.
Absolutely.
And uh it's really interesting,
we just had um a conversation on this podcast around how businesses can be more intentional in the community and what that means for us and people who listen to this podcast is like,
(01:24):
you know,
how can they make a better choice and do some good and kind of lead with their values and,
and move the needle for better in communities and this conversation like international Paper,
it's a big company help us understand like what's important about philanthropy for you.
Oh,
gosh.
Well,
you know,
international paper worldwide,
(01:44):
we have,
um we have the International Paper Foundation and that's at many of our facilities um worldwide.
So depending on where you are in the world,
that kind of drives your focus in a way,
right?
Um But we do have the signature causes that we support.
And those are,
those have pretty much been standard since I've been here.
(02:05):
I've been in this role actually for 13 years.
So our signature causes are education,
hunger,
health and wellness.
And then we do have a um a section for critical community needs signature environmental causes and employee involvement as well.
And I can drill down on each of those um as we talk,
(02:27):
but it's just important and when I talk to uh new hires that uh are,
are hired here in at the facility,
I always tell them um to whom much is given much is expected because we are such a large company as you've stated.
And it's important that we give back,
you know,
many of our mills like container board mills where I am,
(02:50):
many of them are in the boondocks.
Basically,
I mean,
they're way out,
um,
in the sticks.
But like our facility,
we are five miles from downtown Savannah.
So,
and people are surprised and we sit in the middle of three communities,
West Savannah,
um,
Hudson Hill and,
um,
Woodville.
So it's very important for us to be good neighbors at all times.
(03:12):
Not just with our giving,
our monetary giving,
but also with our in kind giving as well.
So,
it's,
it's just very important for a large company with,
with this larger footprint as we have to make sure we're good stewards and good community neighbors.
Yeah,
it's interesting.
You talk about incoming employees,
right?
And so you're catching these folks,
right,
when they're coming in the door.
(03:33):
Um,
I'm curious when you've got,
you know,
new folks,
what does it mean for them to be working for a company that's actually trying to give back to the community?
Honestly,
I don't think a lot of them really get the scope of it.
Um,
because,
you know,
they come to our facility,
(03:54):
they don't realize the magnitude,
um,
of how large this company really is.
So many of them when I'm talking to them,
they,
you know,
and they've come from other places,
you know,
other companies who,
who've had giving programs as well.
Um,
they may not have been as familiar with them with what that company does,
but I make sure they know these are the things that we do,
(04:14):
as a matter of fact,
I'm gonna be talking to our new hires tomorrow.
We have a group about,
I think it's about 25 new people and I'm going to be talking to them tomorrow about all the ways that we give through United Way,
giving,
through our in kind,
giving,
through our foundation,
giving and through our sponsorship,
giving.
And,
and it's changed over the years since I've been here,
(04:35):
honestly,
because there was a time when we didn't have a lot of turnover,
but now because we are having more turnover and more people who are kind of starting in a career or in a different career.
I'll be honest,
they're not as committed to giving as some of our,
you know,
our veterans,
so to speak.
(04:56):
Um,
so makes it a little bit more difficult,
um,
for them to understand the importance of what we do here and why we do and why do we have,
you know,
clothing drives,
why do we have canned food drives?
Why do we have school supply drives,
you know,
um,
and ask for folks to participate,
but it's important and,
but I just hope over time they will understand how important it is.
(05:19):
You know,
it's interesting because I ha I have a,
um,
a view on it and you're saying something a little bit different.
So I just,
I kind of wanna look at it a little bit like so many people I talk to get frustrated about how their role in an organization can be filled with purpose.
And so many people,
(05:39):
I think generationally,
we're seeing younger folks coming into the workforce who pretty consistently when you look at research and studies say,
I feel like I wanna work with an employer that has a purpose beyond profit.
And so now you're telling the story about people coming into the the floor,
you know,
that might not have had a long experience with international paper.
And that's kind of a question mark for them.
(06:01):
How do you see that change over time as they stick in this culture that has puts philanthropy as an important cultural pillar?
Does that change?
Do you see people get more engaged?
What does that look like?
Do you see people get more engaged because we don't stop,
right.
We're going to have our United Way campaign every year.
We're going to do our Canned Food drive every year and as they see their peers contributing,
(06:26):
um they begin to kind of get the message and get the understanding that,
oh,
this is important,
this is what we do and I try to impress upon them all the time.
This is what we do here,
you know,
and,
and,
and I do understand there are so many competing priorities people are giving at their church,
you know,
people are giving,
you know,
their,
their,
their kids,
(06:46):
girl scouts,
boy scouts,
you know,
all those things that you know,
they're doing outside of the job.
But if we have about almost 700 people here.
So if you think if everybody brought one can good,
that would be a lot.
You know,
everybody brought,
you know,
one pack of pencils that we donate to a school.
That would be a lot.
So,
(07:06):
you know,
it,
it just takes time,
it just takes time.
Yeah,
that's kind of one of the running themes I think of this conversation that we have on this podcast,
which is impact can be really small.
And,
you know,
when you're aggregating people and you're able to start seeing this idea about the importance of giving back to the community.
You're not just in my mind,
it,
it's not just that you're creating a good culture of giving within international paper,
(07:33):
but when they do leave,
they're taking that ethos and that philosophy back out into the,
the community and they were able to give and,
and feel impactful even by just giving a can of soup or exactly a backpack,
you know,
or whatever the,
the,
the school drive need is.
Right.
Exactly.
And then with our,
(07:54):
um,
one of our categories for our IP foundation is employee involvement.
So if you are an employee and you're involved in an organization,
and I tell people that means you're involved,
that's not something that you just know about or you kind of loosely,
you know,
drop by,
you're either on the board,
you volunteer with them if that nonprofit submits an application to us and they list your name as an employee that gets a little harder look for funding because we want to support your efforts out in the community.
(08:28):
Part of our 2030 vision is that we impact 100 million lives.
Yeah.
So you're talking about all of our facilities,
all the work that we do impacting 100 million people worldwide.
And the way we keep up with that,
we have a,
a system called my impact.
So every community project we do,
(08:51):
we enter it into my impact.
We enter in the volunteers and we start collecting those hours.
So everything counts,
everything counts,
everything matters.
Uh I,
I do a little bit of strategy work with,
with organizations in,
in my coaching business.
And uh we talk about big hairy audacious goals and,
(09:12):
uh you know,
uh you know,
that's a kind of a common strategic planning thing to think about,
but what a beautiful one to have,
which is to have a positive impact on 100 million lives.
That's big carry and audacious to think about a million.
And whenever I talk to people,
I say 100 million lives and it takes a lot of people to impact a lot of people.
(09:36):
But again,
we're,
you know,
nearly 700 here,
we've got another mill in Louisiana,
Manville,
Louisiana.
They have um close to 800 people.
You know,
we've got another mill down the road here,
Port Wentworth.
They've got about 300 people.
So when you start adding all those people together and if you can do one thing,
(09:57):
two things,
three things in a year,
company wide,
we'll get that goal.
We'll pro we'll have it before 2030 we'll have it way before 2030.
0,
yeah.
I mean,
and again,
it's,
it's not asking for the moon from any one person.
It's really just asking them like,
you know what I'm hearing you say is like,
you kind of want to hear from them,
(10:17):
right?
You're talking to your employees,
what's important to you,
how do you want to give?
So like there's a flexibility there and there's like uh an awareness of like maybe a little bit of agility to think about.
Well,
how can we help in these places?
Right.
Absolutely.
And you know,
everybody,
everything doesn't move everybody,
right?
So we have different things,
some people and there was a time when um when I was an executive director of a nonprofit prior to coming here and I would talk to my board and say,
(10:44):
you know,
understanding that some people are moved by babies,
some people wanna give to young people,
some people wanna give to older people,
some people,
you know,
are moved by pets or,
you know,
just different things,
all things aren't for all people.
But once you find your niche,
your sweet spot of what you are passionate about.
And we have so many things that our folks can get involved with that.
(11:08):
Um You know,
there's something for everybody,
there's literally something for everybody.
Yeah,
you're touching on something that's really interesting,
which is,
you know,
how do you,
we,
we talk about this sometimes,
like how do you select an organization or how do you select a cause that's gonna be really resonant?
And I think you're 100% right?
But it makes it hard because everybody brings something different to the table,
(11:29):
right?
Oh my goodness.
You know,
when we get our uh foundation applications,
um I have a group of people,
group of employees,
their hourly and salary employees and we review them and we have um I'll say spirited conversations about,
you know,
who should get and who,
who we should give to and the amounts that we should give to.
(11:52):
And um again,
some people are passionate about one thing,
some people are passionate about another thing but we can always come to,
you know,
some understanding but,
and I tell them everybody's doing a good work,
right?
Everybody's doing something but of course we,
we're,
you know,
we're limited by our budget,
you know what we can give and then there are other parameters that we have to look at.
(12:14):
Again,
you know,
is this within our signature cause you know,
do,
does this fit,
are there any restrictions here that we can't find?
You know,
it,
there's a,
there's a method to the madness but um you know,
we try to do.
I used to say we try to do a little bit for a lot of people but as time has gone on we really do a lot for many people.
(12:36):
Mhm.
Yeah,
this method to your madness.
I think one of the things that I worry about is that smaller businesses,
you know,
business is much smaller than international paper.
Certainly wanna do good in your community.
And then they look at an international paper and they see all of the stuff you're doing and it feels completely overwhelming because they,
(12:57):
they,
they,
they say to themselves,
oh,
gosh,
like I can't have that impact.
So maybe I shouldn't try or it just seems remote.
What would you say to that?
I would say,
find your interest,
find what it is that your people are passionate about and go for it.
I mean,
(13:17):
there's companies larger than ours.
You know,
whenever you go to these events around town,
you see,
you know,
you're presenting sponsors,
you see Georgia Ports Authority,
you see Gulf Stream,
you see JCB.
I mean,
you see different people,
you know,
sometimes we're up at the top,
sometimes we're not up at the top.
But that doesn't mean we don't do it.
That doesn't mean we don't participate.
That doesn't mean we don't,
(13:37):
you know,
contribute,
just do what you can,
I would just say do what you can do what you can.
I love that.
So help me think about like when you started in this role in 13 years.
You said you've been in this role and you've got your signature causes that you mentioned.
How did you even go about identifying the things that were going to move the needle?
(14:01):
Now,
some of this might have come from like,
you know,
up,
up top,
like,
you know,
corporate,
but this idea of there's so much work that needs to be done in our communities.
How do you go about selecting it?
Like,
what would you say to maybe a smaller business that might wanna select a cause on how to figure out what's the thing that's gonna work for them again,
(14:22):
because we do have these signature causes.
So with the foundation giving,
we're,
you know,
that we've got a color within those lines.
First of all,
um now I do a lot of reading and talking to people in the community.
So if I see an organization that's had a lot of upsets,
like within a year,
they've had maybe three executive directors or,
(14:45):
you know,
different things of that nature,
that may be an organization that maybe we don't fund right now because they're having some challenges.
But I would say for,
you know,
for any company just,
just kind of keep your ear to the ground,
know what's going on in the community,
what know what the top needs are.
You know,
(15:05):
again,
everybody does good work.
But there are certain times when there are certain things that are greater need than others.
Right.
I mean,
like now housing is a hot topic.
Homelessness is a hot topic,
although it's always that way.
But now,
especially so because COVID,
um,
revealed so many things about lack of housing and homelessness and,
(15:27):
you know,
security and things of that nature.
Those are things that I look at,
uh,
now a little bit harder than some of the other areas as well as food insecurity.
Yeah,
those basic needs,
you know,
it's really hard to think about,
you know,
workforce development and all of these other things that we,
we want to work on.
(15:47):
If people don't have a roof over their head or have enough food to support their Children or child care is another enormous one.
Right?
Uh You know,
thing though,
Michael because I'm,
I'm the board chair for economic opportunity,
uh of Savannah and we have a workforce development piece.
Uh,
they have a very large head start program.
(16:09):
But what I keep telling my board members and my executive director as well,
I said,
look,
if we can't get a person,
a job,
you know,
getting a person employed that helps a lot of those things.
Right.
Absolutely.
It's like where on the circle do you start?
Right.
Where on the circle do you start?
(16:29):
I can give you a house.
But are you gonna be able to pay your mortgage,
your rent,
your taxes,
your upkeep?
But if I get you a job,
you're gonna be able to do those things.
If you get a job,
you're gonna have some kind of health care.
If I get you a job you're gonna be able to pay for some of these basic needs.
You know.
So it's not just always,
I don't,
(16:50):
I personally don't think it's not always about just giving the basic,
just giving it.
It's about what's gonna make the greatest impact.
What's gonna,
if you give them that one thing and kind of hit that domino,
is it gonna make the other dominoes fall or not?
Yeah,
you're touching on again.
One of my favorite things to talk about here is about being intentional.
(17:11):
Like how do you create the intentional impact that you wanna see?
So when you're sitting there and you've got,
you know,
by virtue of where you say you,
you see a lot of things come to you and then you're also out in the community talking to people.
How do you think about where you can actually move the needle and create the greatest impact given all of this opportunity to do?
(17:33):
So I think again,
just,
just looking at some of the root causes.
OK.
Looking at some of the root causes some of,
of some of these issues that we have.
And can we make a little dent in a root?
Cause I,
I had a conversation yesterday with some folks out in San Francisco and they were talking about businesses acting almost as coalition partners around root causes.
(17:58):
It's so interesting that you say that and it's funny because one of the things I think that holds businesses back,
right is that they feel like they have to do it alone when in fact,
you can partner with other organizations,
both,
both your community partners and nonprofits,
your city,
your state,
your local government,
as well as other businesses.
Where do you see based on your work business is really needing to step in and kind of come together to start working on root causes like where,
(18:25):
what are the hot buttons for you where more work needs to be done and you need more foot shoulders to do the good thing.
That's a little tough because as much as you wanna do,
sometimes there's just some lines that you can't step over,
right,
you just can't step over them.
Um We,
(18:45):
we go through a process here.
It's interesting.
It's called RC FA root cause failure analysis.
And that's anytime like there's an upset or a big upset in the process or anything like that,
we sit down and we really dissect,
you know what happened,
why it happened and how not to let it happen again.
Maybe that's a process that,
(19:06):
you know,
people can,
we can all get together and sit down and figure out these root cause failure analysis.
Maybe everybody can take maybe a little piece,
a little piece of it,
you know,
because one person can't obviously do it all.
I don't care how big international paper is,
we can't do it all and,
and there's no reason why anybody should try to do it all right.
(19:26):
But again,
I think we have to be very careful on how we approach things,
approach people,
approach these situations because,
you know,
there are a lot of moving parts.
No,
they're,
they're really tricky complicated issues that have been with us for,
you know,
generations really.
Uh or in some cases since the beginning of time it feels like.
Um but you're,
(19:47):
you're touching on something that's important,
which is this idea of limits.
One of the reasons I feel like some businesses tend not to go as far as they could in the community is they feel like it needs to be,
it's like a black hole.
Like it's never gonna stop taking,
taking resources,
time,
money and effort.
And my take on that is,
(20:07):
yeah,
you just need to understand where your limits are.
How do you think?
How would you,
what would you suggest to companies that are looking to do philanthropic work?
But understand the need for limits?
Like how do you set those limits?
What do those look like?
Well,
11 limit is gonna be your budget,
your money.
Um Another limit is gonna be your manpower.
Um Another limit is going to be,
(20:30):
am I doing something that there's somebody out,
somebody out there already doing?
I can't tell you how many organizations will submit an application here and I read them and I'm thinking,
are they partnering with this person with this group?
Are they partnering with that group?
And sometimes,
and I,
I have the ability to go in my system and send their application back and say,
(20:51):
hey,
maybe you should give so and so a call because you're duplicating.
So we can kind of combine some of these folks together.
Um So they can work together.
So you're not giving,
I don't know,
10 agencies,
$1000 you're giving one group,
$10,000 right?
(21:12):
And they're able to make a greater impact.
So,
and that's the same thing I would say for companies just,
you know,
take,
take a small piece,
just take a piece and then maybe partner,
like you said,
with some of these non,
you know,
some of these nonprofits who,
you know,
we wanna work in the area or are working in the area that we want to work in.
But again,
we just have to be,
(21:33):
you know,
we have to be careful,
we do have government,
we have local governments,
you know,
who are doing some of these things as well.
So you're looking at nonprofit,
you're looking at governments and you're looking at industry all combined.
Yeah,
absolutely.
I,
I'm curious,
you know,
based on your experience,
um,
what I guess sort of a warning,
like,
(21:54):
what caution would you give to businesses in terms of when you've seen?
Well,
meaning businesses go into partner effectively in the community and then it just didn't quite go according to plan.
Is there,
is there something that you would,
you would kind of propose?
Hey,
you really need to keep your eye on these things or be cognizant of it as you start developing these partnerships.
(22:18):
What would those be?
You need to look at the age of the organization?
You need to look again at the stability.
How long has this executive director been there?
Another thing that I look at is where are the majority of your board members from?
Are they local?
Are these people who are,
you know,
I mean,
I've seen applications where the board members are in Boston or,
(22:41):
um,
Idaho or New York or California and those types of things,
I think.
Hmm.
Are those folks really that connected with what's going on right here in Savannah,
Georgia?
So those are the types of things they need to look at,
they need to look at tenure,
they need to look at,
uh,
and,
and even the organization's finances as well.
(23:02):
A absolutely.
I think that what you're talking about is here's leadership matters,
right.
Oh,
it absolutely matters.
It absolutely matters.
It's,
um,
it's a little disheartening sometimes when you have three people calling from one organization about the same thing because they're not co-ordinated,
(23:22):
you know,
and,
and they're asking you the exact same thing and I'm like,
well,
I just got a call from.
So and so,
you know,
have you talked to such and such about this?
And they're like,
oh,
you know,
they're surprised and I'm thinking you shouldn't be surprised.
Well,
and also,
I mean,
your background,
you said that you used to be an executive director before you took on this role,
right?
Tell me a little bit about that.
(23:42):
Like,
what was the cause?
Like,
what were you doing out in the community?
I was an executive director for the first t of Savannah.
It's a golf skills,
life skills program for young people.
Um based on core values,
the headquarters was in uh Saint Augustine,
Florida at the World Golf Village.
And it's a very,
it was a,
it's a great character building program for young people.
(24:03):
You're shaking your head,
you're familiar,
I'm not familiar with it,
but I've seen a lot of programs that try to tap into an innate interest,
particularly in youth to try to provide character building skills and you don't have to look far these days to see how lack of character is hurting us as a community.
Right?
Yeah.
And,
and part of the golf piece was to um introduce the game of golf to those communities who are not historically involved in the game of golf,
(24:30):
right?
So usually those are minority communities.
So we would outreach to um you know,
many of the public schools,
we had a um we had a program in the schools,
we had a,
a girls golf program,
um,
that took off really well and it was just a great experience.
I learned so much in my time with the first t,
(24:51):
um,
just a lot of different lessons about giving about who gives about when people give j,
just a lot of different lessons about,
um,
about being on that nonprofit side.
And it's a hustle.
If anybody tells you working in a nonprofit is not a hustle,
it is a hustle because every day you're thinking about where can I get my next donor?
(25:14):
Where can I get my next donation?
When is the next fundraiser?
You're not even done with one fundraiser before you're working on the next fundraiser?
I mean,
it's a hustle NSA grind.
Oh,
absolutely.
I am the first person to,
to,
to shine light on our nonprofit leaders because I mean,
let me be clear,
the job is just as hard as running any team or any company out there.
(25:37):
It's the same issues,
but with far fewer resources and problems that are intractable sometimes.
Right?
Uh So now I,
I fully appreciate that.
I would say it's a great segue into like maybe flipping it around a little bit,
like,
you know,
based on your nonprofit experience,
(25:58):
if you're an executive director or you're within a community based organization and you want to partner with the business community,
what advice or what,
what words of wisdom would you give those organizations to kind of get a leg up and start developing the resources and networks in the community that they need to serve their mission most appropriately.
(26:22):
I'm happy to answer that because I talk to organizations about this all the time.
Um One thing you need to do is you find out who that giving giving person is that giving officer is in the company.
Um And you try to meet with them face to face beyond an email beyond just a phone call,
beyond just sending them your sponsorship package because your next event is coming up.
(26:47):
Um,
but try to meet with that person.
Say yes,
many of us are busy.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes,
we're absolutely busy.
But I'll tell you,
I do take time.
Matter of fact,
I have a young lady working for me right now and,
um,
and I was just like,
oh my gosh,
I'm so busy.
She said,
you know why?
She said you take every phone call,
you take every meeting,
you answer every email.
(27:08):
And I said,
well,
that's what I'm supposed to do.
But I can't tell you how many people just send something and be like,
you know,
please give or give or,
and I'm thinking,
who,
who is this?
Well,
you're,
you're talking about the,
the importance of a relationship.
You need to create a relationship where people,
you've got to create a relationship.
(27:28):
And I tell people this all the time and then,
and I'll tell people all the time,
I'll say,
hey,
you know,
if we're,
if we find something,
hey,
invite me,
invite me.
So I can see,
you know,
where our money is going,
invite me.
So I can see this program that you said was so great and we,
you know,
provided some funding for invite sometimes I don't hear from them until the next year.
(27:53):
So it is definitely about creating a relationship with that individual.
Well,
it's interesting too,
you know what you just said is like on the,
on the the donor side of the equation,
right,
like,
show up and get involved,
like,
like what you really would love when you were an executive director is having those people show up and be more than just a check because that's where the engagement happens more,
(28:17):
more magic can happen with that relationship.
The check is important,
but like show up and be part of the mission as well.
Right.
Right.
Show up um with the first tea,
it was great because we,
we have golfers are very generous people,
they're extremely generous people,
people.
Um And since we have,
you know,
so many golfing communities around here and many people are retired,
(28:39):
you know,
they would come out and volunteer,
they would give their time,
they would give their wisdom to these young people.
So it was great.
Um We never really struggle really,
honestly for volunteers that was never one of our struggles.
Um And they didn't mind cutting checks either.
So you know,
that,
that was my heart.
Yeah,
that was a great combination.
(29:00):
But I know,
you know,
we were fortunate in that.
Um,
first he was fortunate in that and everybody's not that fortunate.
But,
and I don't know if people think,
you know,
being exec,
the executive director is a,
you know,
luxurious role.
You know,
because,
you know,
executive director,
it's a,
it's a hustle and it's,
and it's a grind.
(29:21):
I think that you an executive director stands for exhausted all the ed.
I know they are weary.
I'm telling you very weary and um but it's very um it's very fulfilling when you see your work,
then you see the result of your work and you know that the mission that you're working towards is it,
(29:44):
it is a good one.
Yeah,
it occurs to me.
So,
you know,
you've been talking about international papers giving and you've been clear,
like you've got certain guidelines,
like you're a big company.
So like there's,
you know,
you've got your,
your criteria,
you've got your,
your signature areas that you wanna be in.
And,
you know,
I I've been involved with the United Way and a number of other organizations philanthropically right there is a level of organization in the community that probably isn't going to meet your criteria.
(30:12):
Ok?
They're small.
They might be duplicating services,
they might just be starting out.
There may be a passion project for somebody who really cares deeply about a specific issue or cause putting your Ed hat on for a minute,
what do you think those smaller organizations,
what's kind of the most important thing that they can be thinking about to elevate themselves and get to the level that an international paper or a United Way or a Savannah Foundation,
(30:45):
you know,
might be like,
hey,
now we can start coming in and partnering with you.
What's that like?
They just really need to start building as organically as possible.
You know,
it,
it may start out small,
you know,
ones,
twos,
threes,
fours.
But then find those people who again are passionate about what you're doing,
(31:08):
right?
If it's something in health and wellness,
find those people look for those opportunities to go to those events,
you know,
and I'm not saying,
you know,
buy $100 ticket for every event in Savannah 100 and $50 ticket.
But I'm saying,
go to some of these smaller events and tap into some of these folks and say,
hey,
you know,
this is what you have your elevator speech,
right?
(31:28):
The famous elevator speech.
This is what we're doing.
This is what,
you know,
this is our mission and we'd really like for you to come by or we'd really like for you to,
to see what we're doing.
I mean,
you,
you,
you almost have to be the pavement.
Absolutely.
You gotta,
well,
the dreaded elevator speech too.
You gotta practice the elevator speech.
I I,
you know,
the number of the number of folks that don't have that down cold.
(31:49):
Uh Hey,
I know a business coach for you if you need one,
but in any event,
one of the opportunities,
um II I think for particularly smaller businesses is you talked about don't duplicate and basically mind the gap,
figure out where things aren't being duplicated.
But one way that I think smaller businesses can really have a catalytic effect on the community is to maybe work with a grassroots organization,
(32:15):
be that seed business that helps them take it to the next level,
open your network up,
start talking about it like,
right?
Like if you can find a really values aligned organization out there and a cause that's really resonant for you as the business owner,
maybe one of the impacts you can have is to be the catalyst to try to lift that organization up.
(32:39):
So an international paper or a united way can,
can then go in because of the restrictions that they have on what they're able to do.
Right.
Yeah,
that's true.
I mean,
we have uh organizations that apply and I look online and I think it may even be in our um in our guidelines that if you're less than,
you know,
x you know,
years old,
you know,
that we,
(33:00):
we can't really,
you know,
fund you because part of the,
and let me tell you the rationale behind that is because if you're so young and let's say,
you know,
you're granted five grand,
six or 10 grand,
15 grand from us.
Um Where's your other money is coming from?
Right.
Where's your other money?
Where's your other support coming from?
(33:21):
So that you can be sustainable?
We want you to be sustainable.
So there's like we have a limit on,
you know,
how much we can give,
you know,
based on your budget,
we're not gonna give you 100% of your operating costs.
You know,
we're not gonna give you 50% of your operating costs.
Organizations have to be very cognizant of that and I watch,
(33:41):
you know,
I'm on,
I'm on social media and I watch some organizations when they start out and they first come to me.
Oh,
you know,
can,
you know,
can you give,
you know,
this and,
and I'm like,
well,
you know,
you,
you need to get a little bit more traction,
a little bit more traction and maybe let's let's use a,
a food program for an example.
Maybe they're starting off small.
Maybe you need to partner with second harvest for a little bit and do something and grow a little bit.
(34:06):
You know,
maybe you need to,
uh I think there's an organization called Pack.
Maybe you need to partner with them for a little bit and do a little bit and then grow a little bit more and grow a little bit more.
So,
you know,
people need to understand,
partnerships are powerful and even if you're duplicating services,
you may have a special niche,
you may have a niche that they're not reaching.
(34:27):
Absolutely.
It's,
it's again both on both sides.
It's,
it's about finding the gap for the donors who want to lean into the community partnership.
But it's also particularly in a community like Savannah where there's a lot of nonprofits like find the unmet need.
That's what's powerful here,
right?
That's really where the impact,
where the impact comes from.
(34:48):
I love that.
So let me ask you just kind of,
if we were to sort of wrap things up a little bit when you think about advice that you would give to individuals that are looking to connect with organizations that maybe somebody feels like they're not being used to their greatest purpose in life.
(35:10):
Um What would you say to them in terms of going out there and,
and connecting with,
with folks in their community and giving back just like being an executive director.
It's a hustle and it's a grind.
You have to keep,
you have to stay connected,
you've got to stay connected to the news,
you've got to stay connected to your social media.
You've got to be where these people are,
(35:32):
they're not gonna come to you.
You have to be where they are.
If you,
you see something's going on,
you need to be have as they used to say,
have your face in the place.
Yeah,
So if you want to be part of the community and you want to find your purpose,
like my spin on that would be,
get a little curious and go out and start talking to people and being part of the conversation.
(35:53):
Right.
Figure out what's going on.
Absolutely.
I mean,
there and I have watched Savannah Grow so much.
I'm a native of Savannah,
um,
graduate of Beach High school,
go bulldogs.
Um,
and there was a time when I was younger,
when I,
when I went off to college,
I was like,
I'll never live in Savannah.
There's nothing going on in Savannah.
(36:13):
But I'm telling you,
there's a lot going on in Savannah.
And people in Savannah are very generous even though I,
I talked about the golfing community,
but people in Savannah are very generous with their time,
with their ideas,
with their talents.
So and again,
there's something for everybody and not only is there something for everybody,
there's enough for everybody.
(36:35):
I love that.
So if,
if uh is there anything that you wanna put out into the community in terms of,
if there are organizations that need to seek you out some contact information or are you?
Certainly.
And I,
and I will tell you,
Michael,
there's many been many people who've called me and I've talked them through,
you know,
their ask,
(36:55):
I've talked them through,
you know,
whether they should submit an application with us or not because maybe you shouldn't right now,
you know,
maybe you should look to,
to do something else at this time.
Um,
so I don't have a problem,
you know,
having those conversations with people.
So my email address is Karen.
That's Karen dot Bogans,
(37:18):
B as in boy Ogans.
That's Karen dot Bogans at ipa.com.
And my desk number is 9122387347.
So they can certainly call me and,
um,
you know,
I'll do what I can to help.
Maybe I can steer them in the right direction.
(37:38):
I get a lot of stuff comes across my,
my,
a lot of stuff comes across my desk and I tell people that all the time,
hey,
you know,
make,
but,
and you've got to stay in touch not to the point where you're like,
you know,
every day,
every day,
every day.
But you,
you've got to stay in touch because so much comes in,
you know,
new information in old information out and I'm happy to help because I,
(37:59):
because I've been on the other side and I know what it's like.
Yeah,
be connected people.
That's what it sounds like,
be connected and show up.
That's half a life.
That's right.
That's right.
Well,
thank you,
Karen so much for joining us on this chat and helping us understand a little bit about IP uh international paper and uh philanthropy in the community.
(38:22):
It was great talking to you anytime,
anytime you can find Michael Messer at discerning strategies.com.
Set up a free 20 minute consultation.
Clarify your goals,
scale your business.
Amplify your impact,
discerning strategies.com.
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