Chris Lombard - The Power of Patience and Presence in Horse Training - S2 E21

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Have you ever felt a profound connection to something that completely shifted your life's direction? 

In this episode of the Empathetic Trainer Podcast, we chat with Chris Lombard, a horse trainer and author who found his calling in the equine world at the age of 26. Chris shares his transformative journey from a conventional life to one filled with the peace and purpose he discovered through horses. We explore the deep emotional bonds between humans and horses, the courage it takes to follow one's heart, and the healing power of equine therapy. 

Throughout our conversation, Chris and I dive into themes of reconnecting with nature, the innate wisdom within us, and the courage required to pursue our true passions amidst societal pressures. We also touch upon the emotional bond formed between humans and horses, especially through Chris's poignant experience of losing his beloved horse, Rocky. These narratives highlight the importance of patience, presence, and bravery in building trust and meaningful connections with animals.

Chris shares valuable insights on healing from past injuries and overcoming fears, illustrating how horses can catalyze personal growth. Join us to discover the lessons that horses teach us about living authentically, embracing uncertainties, and fostering deep, soulful connections.

https://www.empathetic-trainer.com/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hi, I'm Barbara O'Brien.
I'm an animal trainer andphotographer and I'd like to
welcome you to the EmpatheticTrainer.
Hi, this is Barbara O'Brien andyou're listening to the
Empathetic Trainer Podcast.
Have we got an amazing guestfor you today?
Chris Lombard is with us andhe's an interesting, very

(00:43):
exciting brand new voice, itseems to me, anyway in the horse
world about being a betterconnection, better attunement,
better understanding for horsesand making their lives better.
Chris Lombard is a horse trainerand author.
He's written two books Land ofthe Horses, a True Story of a
Lost Soul and a Life Found, andHorses in Our Stars, a Story of
Life, love and the JourneyWithin.
Chris believes that there isjoy, challenge and much

(01:03):
opportunity for growth whenlearning alongside a horse.
A truer statement couldn't havebeen made.
Chris, I've had horses for40-some years.
I've been riding since I was 12.
Boy.
Lots of growing pains, lots oflearning and then now, within
the last three or four years, anincredible journey.
So we certainly want to hearabout yours.

(01:24):
An incredible journey.
So we certainly want to hearabout yours.
And from what I understand,from looking at what's out there
about you, you didn't even growup with horses.
You started later in life,which probably gave you a
completely different perspectiveand a fresh, brand new way of
looking at them.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about that?

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Sure, sure, Barbara, We'd love to.
Yeah, thank you for having mehere on the Hypothetic Trainer
podcast I'm really excited aboutthis and to talk a little bit
about how I began with horses.
I didn't touch a horse until Iwas 26 years old, very much in

(02:00):
the state of Maine.
But cats cats were my firstanimal friends and then, while
living in the city of Portland,Maine, Maine's largest city when
I was 26 years old.
I went through a verychallenging time in my life.
At the time I was as lost asI'd ever been, and during that

(02:21):
time I happened to go to a farmwhere my friend was barn sitting
, and while I was there she saidwell, I have to go feed the
horses.
Do you want to come with me?
And I thought oh sure, why not?
And went out to the barn withher and walked in there and the
two horses were eating some hayand I just got lost in the sound

(02:44):
of their eating some hay.
And I just got lost in thesound of their eating.
They would reach down and graba bite to eat and then stare at
me while they chomped, just socontent in their life, so
content in their life.
And then all of a sudden Iheard my friend go oh.
I'm ready to go back to thehouse.
You coming and I just kind ofwoke up and I didn't realize if

(03:06):
I was standing there for an houror for 10 seconds.
You know, time seemed to fadeaway there.
And in that moment I realizedthat I felt just as content as
those horses were, even though,you know, I supposedly had all
these challenges and things Iwas going through in life.
But while I was around thosehorses, they seemed to embody a

(03:29):
contentment, a freedom, a peace.
No matter what the past was, nomatter what the future may or
may not be, there was some sortof contentment in the moment
that they had going on, thatthey kind of ignited within me,
just in their presence.
And so I walked back to thehouse with my friend and then,

(03:50):
days after that, weeks, I'd havea vision of those two horses.
I'd be laying in bed, staringup at the ceiling, and suddenly
those two horses would pop and Isaid, chris, what are you doing
?
You felt this amazingcontentment right there.
You have to follow it.
You have to follow it andlooking back at it now.
It's such an innocent time in mylife because I had no
attachments to it whatsoever,barbara, no thoughts of where it

(04:13):
would lead or what it would getme or anything else, I just
thought I would like to bearound horses and so for the
next couple months I took sortof the standard riding lesson
and had great fun.
And the same thing happened themoment I walked into that barn
and started to interact with thehorses and just be around them,

(04:34):
whether it be just standingwith them or standing with them
in the field or grooming ortacking them up.
I felt that same contentment.
And then, pretty soon afterthat, within a couple months of
those riding lessons, I realizedI had what I thought these
things that had happened in mylife that I thought were

(04:55):
somewhat devastating.
I started to see the flip sideand the opportunity that they
were leading me into and Ipacked everything I could into
my car that I really needed andI decided to just drive out West
with the idea that I would findinteraction and connection and
work with horses somehow.
Now that sounds great.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
You have to understand to the average person
that sounds like what I mean.
How do you just hey, mom, dad,friends, I'm going to go be a
horse guy, and you know, dadfriends, um, I'm going to go be
a horse guy, and you know?
It'd be like saying I'm goingto start riding motorcycles and
I've never been in one on mylife.
You know what I mean.
It's I mean it's different, buta very scary thought for the
people around you, you know.
And then you know 26,.

(05:36):
My son is 26 and him it'd behard, hard pressed, like what
You're just go what, although Iguess I would understand.
So I'm trying to like what madeyou so brave and what made you
know that this is something youhad to do it's heart.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
It's where your heart leads and your heart will have
patience with you.
Your heart will wait untilyou're ready, but it certainly
won't hide.
It'll stay ever present thereand the more you learn to slow
down and connect to it, the moreyou learn to hear it, the more
courage is born right.
Along with that, I believe, theappropriate courage to follow
it.
And however many baby steps, Idon't think that your heart will

(06:16):
set you up with too much tomake happen.
You know it'll give you justthe right steps, and so I took
those two years.
I drove out west.
I ended up staying out therefor two years and living in
three states Colorado,california, arizona working on
three different horse ranchesthere.
Wow, first as an apprenticetrainer and then as a wrangler

(06:38):
on a dude ranch and then as acowboy at the last ranch.
Then came back home in 2003without knowing what I was going
to do.
I just thought I still wantedto be around horses and I put
out an ad on a message board onthe internet saying if you need
help with your horse, maybe Ican help you, and that led to
four clients in the summer of2003.

(07:00):
And that's the only advertisingI've done to this point.
Those four clients led to whatI'm doing now.
Wow, we're 20 years later.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
Well, I understand that when you're good, you know
and you're doing the rightthings like be a success first
and the money will follow youknow you were just doing your
best at being good at what youdo and offering what you have to
offer and not getting hung upon.
You know I have to be at thisgoal or that goal or make this
much money, or you know you'refollowing your heart, like you
said, and the heart's usuallynot about making tons of money,

(07:32):
it's just usually not compatible.
So you know, obviously it's aservice.
An interesting thought comes tome, because some of us are born
, whether we know it or not,born with this innate love of
horses, like every um so many uh, gals and women especially, um,
of course men too, but likethey, I didn't expose to horses

(07:53):
either until I was like 12,right so, but I knew it, you
know, you just know you have tobe around them.
You have to read all the horsebooks, you have to beg rides
when you go to the county fair.
Can I please sit on your horse?
You know this, this desperation,this pretending to be a horse.
You know putting reins on yourbicycle so you can ride.
You know, no handed and justdirect with the reins and
pretend to feed it hay andwhatever you know, and all your

(08:15):
briar horse statues.
And and then, like your familylooks at you like you're an
oddity because they weren'thorse people.
And where did this come from?
That you knew, you know.
So as a child maybe we're andwe get connected to a horse some
way.
We don't analyze it like anadult can, like it hit you as an
amazing thing, right, like whoa, a wave, whereas a little child

(08:36):
it's not.
It's not articulated that much.
It's like I have to be with themand I'm not who I am without
them you know, and then thegreat blessing of being able to
start to ride when I was 12 anddo all that until I was 19 and
eloped so I could have a horse,still have the same husband,
still have the same horses.
You know, 47 years later, well,not the same horses still have

(08:58):
horses.
So it's like some of us aren'teven aware of it, but you, like,
really weren't aware of it.
I mean to not have any exposure.
You live in a city, you're notconnected to nature in the way a
rural person might be orsomebody who has access as much
maybe, and to come across theseanimals and have that adult
awareness, that must have beenphenomenal yeah, yeah, I'll

(09:21):
often think about that.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
You know, it's just the wondrous journey that life
is, and what we can understandand what we can connect to, and
what we might not even be ableto understand, the great unknown
of it.
And I often feel like you knowthe things in my life that my
heart has kind of drawn me to do, and the journeys and
everything along with it.
It always feels like cominghome.

(09:42):
It always feels like cominghome.
It feels like a place youalready knew, even though you
might just begin doing it.
I often equate it to just thatold term of when somebody says,
oh, that makes sense.
I always think that's aninteresting term when we say
that makes sense.
We're learning something andwe're learning it, and then

(10:03):
finally we go oh, I got it.
That makes sense now.
It's like we're rememberingsomething rather than learning
something.
It's like we already knew it.
We just had to have it beawakened within us somehow.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Oh wow, that's really cool.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, it's a beautiful journey of almost just
remembering, awakening, gettingback to something that's
already inside us, rather thanbecoming something new or
learning something new orgetting somewhere as we've never
been before.
These great places, these greatjourneys, and where they take
us seems to be a place that weknew all along.

(10:39):
I think you touched onsomething really beautiful, and
when we're young we're notthinking too hard about anything
.
We're, in the moment, very muchlike horses.
We're able to follow our heartand our calling and where we're
pulled at any given moment andeverything and so.
But then there's that point, youknow where, if you demonstrate
an interest in something, youare then somewhat beholden to

(11:04):
the community and structurearound you friend, family,
community, where you live.
There's so many things thatthen really create a design of
your experience about whatyou're drawn to do with horses
very much being within thatrealm, with all the different
disciplines and styles of ridingand teaching methods and just

(11:25):
ways of working and being withthem.
And so what I've often thoughtis, if I was into horses as a
youngster, I would have beenbrought up under the tutelage
and guidance of somebody andpossibly the mold of some sort
of style of working with horsesand I feel that that I can see
how that wasn't my way.
Barbara, I can see how thatwasn't for me.
You know where I feel like Iwould have been wanting to be

(11:48):
off doing my own thing.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Oh yeah, I get it.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
See how the universe kind of waited until I was in my
20s and then the universe saidOK, now here we go.
Humans don't do well withcreating their own change and
shift.
If things are kind of feelingokay and safe, they kind of want
to stay right where they are.
So we're going to have to givehim some bumps in the road.
We're going to have to give himsome challenges.

(12:12):
We're going to have to show himthat these ways of being no
longer serve him.
And that's usually a veryconflicted, challenging, painful
time.
And it was, you know, and Ilook back, I thought my life was
kind of falling down around meat age 26, when in reality it
was opening up.
It was showing me it's time tomove on and step into a life,

(12:32):
chris, that, trust us, you'regoing to love.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, no, but you recently had a post about your
horse, rocky, that you have lostnot too long ago.
I recently had a post aboutyour horse, rocky, that you have
lost not too long ago.
Certainly every horse personwho's had a horse that has
really touched their heart,really moved them, really been
one that stands out.
I've had two of them like thatover all these years.
That's always so, so hard, butyou said this beautiful thing

(12:59):
about it when you werereflecting on where he's buried.
You said that Rocky said trustthis, chris, trust life, like
you always trusted me, and Ithought that was incredibly
beautiful.
And you know because, like yousaid, horses live in the present
and there's no tomorrow,there's no yesterday.

(13:19):
I mean, they remember thingsbut they live in the moment and
they can only be what they arein the moment.
There's no pretense or falsenessabout horses.
You know they are what they areand the biggest lie in the
human language is I'm fine.
When somebody asks you how areyou, I'm fine.
I mean we won't evenacknowledge to each other.
You know what we're feeling.
We're horses, acknowledge itevery minute.

(13:40):
And when I read that line wherehe said trust life, you know
and I understand what you meanby the horse talking to you even
from beyond.
I mean, I get that I don't putany limits on what's possible.
So trust this, trust life, likeyou always trusted me I.
That's a real letting go,that's a real bravery.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
Thank you for reading those words back to me.
That was going straight to myheart there, barbara.
Thank you, it is bravery.
I think it's the greatestbravery, I think just living a
life in this world is.
We are all inherently brave.
There's so much unknown,there's so many different things
that can be painful in so manydifferent ways.

(14:21):
So many challenges, and so Ithink, just making our way
through this life, whether we beanimal or human, we're brave,
we're brave.
And the idea of the unknownthat's ahead, and the idea that
we're all going to pass away atsome point, it's really enough
to bring us together.
I think there's so many infinitedifferences among all of us,

(14:42):
individual creature, with no twoof us alike and we'll never
have another being like us inthis world, ever again.
That simply is amazing.
It is that infinite beauty ofdifference that we all have
between us.
But then there's also aninfinite amount of connection
between us of oneness, and if welook at one of the great
onenesses, it can be found justin the living of a life.

(15:04):
And if we look at one of thegreat onenesses, it can be found
just in the living of a life.
We're all bound by that onenessof living a life and that we're
all going to pass on at somemoment.
And so I think that bravery youspeak of right there, is enough
to really be able to seeourselves in another, whether
we're looking into a human'seyes or an animal's eyes see
some sort of great equality somesort of great equality, that

(15:25):
transcends species.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
I think so because I'm a person of faith and I
believe that we have souls andthey're unique to each one of us
and they go on forever.
So I believe that.
But I also believe animals havesouls that are unique and go on
forever.
And sometimes when you meet ahorse, it's like you've always
known them and your soul kind ofremembers their soul in a way,
because it just goes on forever.
And sometimes when you meet ahorse, it's like you've always
known them, you know, and yoursoul kind of remembers their

(15:47):
soul in a way, I mean because itjust goes on forever.
There's an energy there.
I also think that when we get sotrapped up in modern technology
and we're not talking as humanbeings, face to face, as much
things like that, we lose ourconnection with the natural
world.
And when we're ensconced in acity and it's concrete and it's,
you know, whatever theexcitement and energy of a city,
you know, no wonder people seekout the quiet places and I wish

(16:11):
that that opportunity was forthat.
Everyone has that opportunity.
You know, I work in, I live in,rural Wisconsin.
I'm about 75 miles fromMinneapolis, which is, you know,
a good sized city Minneapolis,st Paul and we have to go there
to do our work, which is animalactors.
So we'll bring animals there tothe studios and we'll do our
work and that's fine, we'll goin and everybody's great and the

(16:33):
animals are fine, because I'mvery careful to make sure that
it's all about them, thatthey're super happy and they
have a good time.
But when we leave and we startheading away from the city, I
just feel all that fall away aswell.
Any kind of, because I getdisconnected from the natural
world when I'm in a city.
I don't like it.

(16:53):
I'm just not a city person.
To come back to my farm, assoon as we hit the border of
Wisconsin, which starts tobecome rural pretty quick from
Minnesota, and you just driveinto the Driftless area which is
where I live, which means therewas no glaciers, so it's all
Hill, it's like Hills and, andyou know, ravines and beautiful,
beautiful, small little valleys.

(17:15):
There you go, anyway, it'sbeautiful, it's beautiful and I
feel myself just go, and thenwhen I finally get home and I go
sit out with my sheep or I hangout with my chickens or I go
sit with my horses, it's like mychurch.
Everything just melts away andI can connect again.
And so I feel for people thatdon't have that opportunity.
I wish that they could just goa little bit further out, walk

(17:37):
amongst trees, put their feet onthe ground, be grounded again.
Animals are our connection tothe natural world, and so when
someone says I don't like dogs,I don't like cats, I don't like
animals, I don't understand it.
Have you not met any nice ones?
What happened to you?
I want to go like, like notwhat's wrong with you, but what
happened to you that you knowyou don't like some animal,

(18:00):
something you know?
Yeah, right, so I get it.
I get what you're saying aboutthe whole connected piece of it
and how we connect with animalsand why it's so important.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, yeah, and I have a clipboard that when I go
and do clinics, at the beginningof the clinics we do a morning
circle and at the end we do anafternoon circle.
And many and many times there'smany circles throughout the day
.
We all just afternoon circleand many times there's many
circles throughout the day weall just circle up, with or
without horses, whenever there'ssomething kind of meaningful we
want to share or talk about.

(18:32):
And in the back of thatclipboard, written there for
years and years, is something Iwrote and every now and then
what it says is it says remember, chris, you've never seen it
not work.
What I'm referring to there islove and connection.
Love and connection.
I've never seen a human and ahorse in whatever unique,

(19:08):
individual way.
It's happening for them thatday, whether they're standing 50
feet apart or whether they'reright beside each other, hugging
.
Whether it be a human talkingabout them from afar, just
looking at them, or whether itbe them reaching out their hand
and touching the nose of a horsefor the first time, whether it
be somebody learning how to walkand lead a horse for the first

(19:31):
time, or whether it be ahigh-level rider riding around
an arena at a high level.
I've never not seen love andconnection not happen between a
human and a horse, and I thinkthe key is um, the patience and
the ability to set it up in theway that's natural for them and
their journey together, and nothave any stories about how it's

(19:55):
supposed to be right how itshould be as far as somebody
who's helping them to kind offind their way to their own
unique spark of connection.
Oh, I love that.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
And patience.
Patience is the hardest thing.
It's.
My biggest fault is beingimpatient.
I know this about myself.
It was like everything you know.
I'm a border collie by natureand I just went to the job.
So that patience is definitely alearned skill, but so
gratifying when you just breatheand you let it happen.

(20:27):
So I understand that.
I have sheep and a differentpodcast we had a gal on that
writes books about sheep andstuff and we talked about how
most sheep around most humansbecause they're prey animals are
afraid or want to move away orthey're just not going to
interact, are afraid or want tomove away or they're just not
going to interact.
But if you, I find that mysheep are super tame because

(20:48):
I've raised them from littlelambs and they know me right.
But if I go to a different herdof sheep and they're not
attuned to me because they don'tknow me, they definitely know
their.
You know biblically they saythey know their master's voice
and I really do understand themetaphor.
They don't know me.
But I find that if I am quietand patient and just no threat,

(21:10):
sit there with no expectation oflike, oh, I want to hug all you
sheep and I love you, I don'tcome on, you know, I just wait
Eventually because they're goingto, they're intelligent animals
, they're curious, they're goingto come around and you will
find that with almost everyevery domestic, domestic species
, for sure, and even wildanimals will check you out.
I mean, there'll be a distanceand they'll be safe, but they

(21:31):
will.
You know, the a deer looks atyou, you know, and if you're
quiet, he'll look at you longer,and isn't that the coolest
thing?
Oh, yeah, right, that is right.
And uh, I just joined a groupon Facebook about crows and how
you can make crows your friends,because you leave little things
for them when they startbringing you gifts.
And I have no idea about that.

(21:52):
I'm going to have to find acrow person to talk to.
But it's like, can you imaginehaving a relationship with a
wild bird that just like bringsyou little trinkets because you
left some peanuts out for himover time, right, and so wow,
that's the first thing we teachthe little ones when they come
visit is we're going to be stilland quiet.
We're not going to run up tothe fence.

(22:12):
You know we're going to, we'regoing to have quiet, energy and
we're just going to wait.
And they're so gratified, thechildren are so gratified.
I've never been around horses.
When a horse approaches, youknow, and you just that you're
right.
That moment of like, wow, youknow, and it's not forced and
it's it's.
You know, usually there's afence between us just for safety

(22:34):
, because horses are so big andI have seven of them, and you
know.
But I love, I love seeing thatyou know just the patience,
patience, and you're exactlyright.
What you say about distancedoesn't matter.
You know, the horse knows thehuman nose, resonate.
So I get that.
Well, tell us about yourclinics.
You wrote on a Facebook postrecently about a really cool

(22:56):
place in Maine that works withpeople and horses together and
something about how the horseshave a lot more freedom than
most.
And um, you said it was.
Uh, there was children'sartwork all over.
A great energy.
I just.
I want to be there so muchbecause children and animals are
my thing, and you know I'm justlike, wow, how do they do this?

(23:17):
How does this work, you know?
So please tell us about thatexperience and what that was
like, because that sounded likea really cool place, and what
the work is that they're doingthere and how you helped with
that.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah, that was the Willow Wind Therapeutic Riding
Center in Bar Harbor, maine, andthat was what they're doing
there.
Barbara, is exactly what youwere just speaking about when
you were speaking about havingpatience and slowing down and
all of that.
I took a big deep breath whilelistening to you there, because

(23:49):
I find that's what's thestruggle for most of us.
I feel the struggle coming froma time for many, many years
hundreds of years really wherehuman civilization has been all
about doing and getting andachieving and building and
protecting and defending and uh,just more, more, more, and it

(24:10):
came from a very innocent place.
It was all about creatingsafety for ourselves it's all
about all about survival, but itreally was.
It was very hard on the animalsand very hard on the horses
because we were using them asmachinery.
Really, it was all about horsesand using them for travel and
for work and for war and forpulling and for farming and they

(24:36):
had to do a job and it was allabout how well they could get
that done and if they couldn'tget.
Couldn't get it done.
Then a different horse wasfound and people did not have
time because it was aboutsurvival.
People did not have time tojust sit quietly and share space
and let the horse take its timeand learn in its own way, and

(24:57):
all of these things, and sowe're still shifting in this
world now beautifully.
There's still a lot of friction,there's still a lot of stuff.
The change is always a littlebit messy, you know, and but we
are allowing ourselves now theopportunity, as horses are no
longer needed for survival inthe same ways and we're able to

(25:20):
slow down with them, share spacewith them and sit with them.
Share space with them and sitwith them and have simply the
relationship and connection bethe end in itself.
We can still want to do a lotof fun adventures with them and
riding, driving, all thesedifferent things, and even
competition and so on and soforth but I think we're learning

(25:40):
to let that be guided by theconnection, by the relationship.
Yes, that's really what you'resaying is everything, yeah to
let that be, to let that blossomin its own time, to almost let
that come to us, to let therelationship and the connection
with the horse be at the heartof what we're doing and then let
what we're going to do be acreation of both us and the

(26:02):
horse and have it.
You know, like everything elsebeautiful in the world, feel
like it's offered to us, like itcomes to us and it's an
interest of both us and thehorse.
And so at the clinics, and likeat Willowin this past weekend,
I'm working with people, groups.
It's six people at the most ina clinic, six people and their
horses, and we usually have fourdays that we devote to just

(26:25):
ourselves and our horses.
Now, there you go right therefour days.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
That is a commitment for someone to say I'm going to
go do this clinic for four days,but that means you understand
the patient's part of it.
I mean they have to becommitted to the patient's part
of it, because horses aren't onthe same, you know, they don't
look at their watch and go.
We've been standing here for 10minutes.
You know it has to be a sincere, authentic movement.

(26:53):
You need patience.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
You got it right there, I mean.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
I'm just thinking to myself how could I commit four
days?
I want to, but it would be likeyou know.
So these are committed people,which is probably part of the
reason that they find it sogratifying in the end, because
you can't do this in a half hour.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
You got it right there.
You said it the idea of fourdays.
You know, when I work withpeople in a group, I find that
the first day some of them areaway from home.
A lot of them are just meetingeach other for the first time.
Some of them might just have acouple months with the horse
that they have.
Some have many years.
Regardless, we all have ourstories, we all have our guards,

(27:35):
we all have our walls All thesethings we know about and a lot
we don't know about, that we'reconscious and unconscious of,
and all of that that we'reconscious and unconscious of,
and all of that, and so when wego meet up for a clinic, I'm
really what I'm drawn to is tohave the work come from the
deepest place of love andconnection that it can.
It's really what has me comealive in my own life working

(28:00):
with horses, and it's what hasme come equally alive when I'm
working with people, and whatit's what has me come equally
alive when I'm working withpeople in their horses.
When I see people connecting ina deep way with their horse, I
feel like that is just as muchof a gift to me and everybody
else present you know to be apart of.
And so, with that said, I findit takes a couple days.

(28:22):
It takes a couple days to relax, to not only let your own kind
of stress down and your ownguard down and get comfortable
somewhere, but to let the restof the world ease away as much
as we're trying to relax in ourown lives.
There's a million things thatcan really pull us every which
way for sure in this in thisworld.

(28:43):
And so when you, when you gosomewhere and you have nothing
to do for four days but be withyour horse and be with and be
with other people who are alongthe same lines and what their
journey is, and all of that, itis one of the greatest gifts
that you can give yourself andyour horse just by.
I always tell people when theyget there I say, well, the hard

(29:05):
work is done, you've got here,and then usually it can be, it
can go any which way, but Iusually find that third day,
that third day is where horsesand humans are just so relaxed
with each other and so at peace,and a lot opens up on that day,
a lot of really neat and funthings.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
That is so cool so they're not saying anymore I'm
fine, they're honest, they'rehonest, yeah, they're being
honest with themselves.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
With the idea that there's no difference between
any honest answer that you give.
A friend of mine once said hesaid yes and no.
We tend to think yes is abetter answer than no.
He goes, but really they bothhold equal power.
Yes is no to something else andno is yes to something else,

(29:55):
and they both hold equal power.
They're both just the truth.
They're both just the truth andit's what we don't want to know
.
And so if we're not attached toany story about how something
has to be, if we've truly let goof the who, what, why, when,
where, how and we just want tobe in truth with another and we
just want to be connected withanother.
that leaves open every door,every possibility and connection

(30:19):
almost can't not happen.
You've put yourself in themoment.
If you've let go of the pastand the ways that it can direct
us, both consciously andsubconsciously, and how our mind
can be kind of stuck in thepast, wishing it had gone a
different way, which means thatwe think the present moment
should be different than it isin some way.

(30:40):
If we can let go of that and ifwe can let go of the future,
the anxieties and worries of thefuture, hoping that there's
some future moment that we thinkis going to be better than the
present moment, We'll see thosefeelings in a human.
Horses don't know what to dowith those.
All they know is that there'slike two of us.
Yeah, we're not congruent, we'renot fully present, yeah, we're

(31:02):
not matching, and so they'reautomatically kind of ill at
ease around us and that leads tospooking, that leads to
disagreeing and other challengesand just not being safe and
feeling at peace in our presencefor a lot of horses, unless
they've learned to really beable to fill in in beautiful
ways, like the horses of WillowWind can, as the different

(31:22):
people come through there with alot of energy and emotion.
Those horses have learned tohold space and stay steady and
fill in and to share space withthose energies, but not take on
those energies, which meansthose, those horses are worth
their weight in gold as much asany other horse in the world, no
matter what, absolutely.
And so at the clinics, when wecan get ourselves to that place,

(31:44):
a lot of the work is really.
There's some clinics where youknow if we work for you know,
say, if we're there from 9 inthe morning until, say, 5 or 6
at night.
There's sometimes we're withthe horses just a couple hours
because we're sitting in circleand doing other exercises, where
it's getting ourselves in theright place, and then when we go
to the horses, it's just it'sthere, they're ready to meet us

(32:07):
there, and all of that so Ifind getting ourselves in the
present, feeling ourselvesmentally, our thoughts, knowing
our thoughts and knowing ways ofthinking, and knowing that we
can guide our thoughts, that ourthoughts don't run us but our
thoughts are our choice.
And also knowing our bodies,knowing how to feel, where we
are in our relaxation or stress,knowing where to feel, where we

(32:30):
are in our energy and what it'ssaying, both in what our body's
speaking to us and also how ourbody's speaking to the world
around us, both human and horseand our soul through our heart,
your soul, being able to feel.
Feel that part of us that isneither mind or body that you
mentioned before, that feelstimeless, feels eternal, doesn't

(32:52):
feel either young or old, feelslike it can be everywhere at
once and feels like it may notknow every secret of the
universe yet, but, boy, it has afeel for them.
You know that part of us there.
I find if we can get in touchwith those inside us first, that
that opens every door and beingable to know it and see it and

(33:15):
understand it and communicatewithin it with another.
So, yeah, that's what I find wefocus on in the clinics.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Wow, you must come to Wisconsin.
We've got to work this out.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
I'd love to.
Yeah, I would love to.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
I really want to spend.
That would be the coolest thing, because, of course, naturally
when you speak this way youthink about how you can relate
with an old personal experience,and this is about you.
But I want to just quickly gohow I understand what you're
saying, because I was injured acouple years ago by a mare that
we had taken in an Arabian, andI love Arabians I have Morgans

(33:51):
now, but I love Arabians and Ithought I knew what was going on
with attunement andhorsemanship and the new way of
doing things.
But I did not have patience andI was not listening and the
mayor clearly told me no.
When I was sitting on herbareback with a halter and I
asked her to move forward, sheclearly with her body language,

(34:13):
said no, and I hadn't been on ahorse that ever bucked really.
So I didn't know what thatwarning was.
When she kind of hunched hershoulders and said no.
Looking back, I think it waspain in her back that was
causing this, but she'd had somehard times before us and um,
you know who knows, but I didn'thave the patience to to have
her feel safe.
You know all those things thatI know now.

(34:33):
Anyway, she bucked really hardand, um, being bareback and not
the best rider Of course we alltry, but not the best I went
flying off and I broke my pelvisin three spots and, um, you
know, got to the house, gothelped out of that eventually,
but it really shook me up as my,uh, as a horse person, I'd
never been seriously injured onany of my horses.

(34:54):
You know, on my heart horsesyou could ride bareback
everywhere and do stuff.
And you just had that, likeyou're 14 years old and you can
do everything, no fear at all,really, on my own horses it was
the first time I ever got hurt.
And then, um, working throughthat injury I'm fine now but
working through that injury,being self-employed, um, you
just kept working on yourcrutches and just did it.

(35:15):
There was no time off, and somuch shame.
Like, oh, I can't believe Ididn't listen to the horse.
You know I really messed up onunderstanding this new way of
being around horses.
I was never mean or horrible,but I certainly was following.
You know, it took a while toget from.
Well, he's got to respect me,which I never felt comfortable
with.
Like some of us just knew thatthat wasn't the right path.

(35:37):
So then we just kind of likenothing and the horse had no
direction and no reason to feelsafe around us, cause we didn't.
But long story short, some newhorses.
I have three Morgans that camefrom the range in Montana, so
not handled a lot, notmishandled necessarily, but not
handled a lot.
And one came, two yearlings andthen a three-year-old.
And the three-year-old wasreally defensive around her back

(35:59):
end and very fearful of peopleand took a long time for her to
come around where the patientscame in, and so when she did it
was really gratifying.
But even until just veryrecently I carry this fear of
the old injury of the otherhorse and I project it onto the
new horse, who hasn't doneanything since.
We've been connected and morein tune and she realizes I'm not

(36:21):
going to hurt her, Like shehasn't done anything to make me
think she's going to hurt me.
And if she did move defensively, I know enough to get out of
the way and let her have herspace and slow down, go back.
And I know that now.
But in the meanwhile, when I'mwith her, you know, I'm still
like that.
And so my good good trainer whohelps me, named Tiffany Stauffer
, who I did a podcast with, shesaid you're projecting all that

(36:45):
onto the horse and she has noidea why.
She has no understanding ofwhat that is coming from.
She's like why are you afraidof me?
If you're afraid, maybe Ishould be afraid.
What are we afraid of?
So I think it would take me alot and still working through it
.
But to have four days to likenot say I'm fine, to be honest,

(37:05):
and say I'm a little scared ofyou, how are we going to work
through that?
You know.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
Wow, to have that guidance, chris boy.
I mean, how do we, how do weget in touch with where we can
learn that from you, becausethat would be phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
I really enjoyed listening to you speak there,
barbara.
You spoke so well about what somany people go through and
particularly when you brought upshame, I thought, oh, thank you
for going there and having thatbravery to speak about your own
journey in that way, and I justfeel what I feel right off is
just how we're all in thistogether.

(37:41):
We are all in this together atall levels, whether you're a
beginner or whether you are ahorse professional with 50 years
experience.
We're all in this together, forwhatever we're doing with a
horse, there's something withinour hearts that is drawing us
there.
I I don't know anybody.
I don't know anybody I've metwho has been drawn to horses and

(38:04):
said, yes, I'm drawn to havingthis experience that will
challenge me mentally,emotionally and physically, and
I could possibly get physicallyhurt in really bad ways and also
challenge me financially very,very much, as well as time wise,
and have all of my inner fearscome out, both mental and
emotional and physical.
I've not met one person whosaid that, but that is what we
get.
I've not met one person whosaid that, but that is what we

(38:25):
get, and we're all in thistogether and we're all going to
deal with it in ways where wedive headfirst into it, in ways
we shouldn't run away from it,in ways we probably shouldn't
ignore it in ways we shouldn'tbe tremendously hard on
ourselves in ways we probablyshouldn't that are healthy, and

(38:45):
also be tremendously hard on thehorse in ways that aren't
healthy either.
So it's going to bring up allour stuff, like in any other
relationship, very, very much,and the the self-preservation
instinct you know how we'rewired for our own safety is to
remember the things that hurt usin all of these ways, and then

(39:08):
all the situation has to do ismirror that in some way, and
this self-preservation instinctof ours is going to very
innocently start to prepare us.
We're going to go into thatsympathetic, nervous system of
fight or flight in preparationfor it, and we, our bodies, will
betray us.
We might be telling the horseeasy, now, it's okay, easy,

(39:31):
while we're staring them in theeye, not blinking with ourselves
, just taller for some.
All of a sudden, a leaf has todrop 10 feet from us and we jump
yeah, yeah, no there's atransformation.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
You're exactly right about the whole, how our bodies
are, our our brain is telling usone thing, or trying to tell
the horse one thing and thebody's telling another.
Because when Tiffany works withRita, this mare, and Tiffany,
who is just so in tune and sogood with horses, the mare goes,
oh, thank goodness.
Okay, yes, yes, you can pick upall four of my feet.

(40:03):
Yes, I will, we'll work withthe farrier.
Yes, everything is okay.
You know, just like there's atransformation.
And as an animal actor trainer,I see the same thing with dogs,
because I can go to set and workwith someone's dog and it might
be nicely trained and having alot of fun, but the owner brings
so much anxiety because, oh, mydog's going to have to perform

(40:23):
and I'm nervous.
It's like, okay, I'm going towork with Trigger here and I
need you to go over there andtake a deep breath and I do this
.
I mean I know what's going onwith the dog and the owner, and
the dog is fine.
I mean it's great.
But recognizing it in myself isreally hard, you know, because
it's like Tiffany can do thesame thing for the horse that I

(40:46):
can do for somebody else's dog,because we're coming at it from
a completely different place andshe's completely honest about
who she is.
At the moment the horse goesgreat, you know.
Same thing with the dog and me.
I know he's going to be great.
We're going to have fun gaming.
If he doesn't like the game,we're not going to play.
No harm done, you know.
So, yeah, but why can't youknow so that you know?
That's why you almost get likeyou said.

(41:08):
The shame comes on like whycan't I transfer that?
You know, why can't a persontransfer that?
I don't mean to like ask allthese questions about me
personally, because now it feelslike I don't want to talk too
much about me.
This is about the real offer,but I am.
I feel like I wish we had hoursand we don't.
Maybe we'll have to do anotherpodcast because, chris, you,
you're just like really hittingit home for me and, I'm sure, so
many of my listeners.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Thanks, barbara.
I feel it as well as far asthis is a topic for sure that
feels like it could use a lot ofwords to get to something that
can be pretty complex and prettyhard maybe the hardest thing to
go through as a horse person,because we we feel love for
these horses.
We feel love for these horsesand we can also develop a fear

(41:51):
of them at the same time, andthat can create so much chaos
inside of us that what we loveis also what's scaring us and I
find that that is so profound,yeah, yeah and and there's a
reason why I feel like thehardest horses are the ones
closest to us the hardest horsesare our own, because we're
invested emotionally in them inways that we can't help but very

(42:14):
much care about therelationship, and we can't help
but have somewhat of a storyattached about the relationship
and what we'd like it to be andwhere we'd like it to go.
The relationship and what we'dlike it to be and where we'd
like it to go, to be in themoment, to be truly in the
moment, as we all talk about,means that you're not attached
to any sort of future at all,and so when we're in

(42:34):
relationship, we can't help it.
We get attached to a future, wewant it to go a certain way or
something and we want to doright by the horse.
And so I find that when a feardevelops, I have to embrace it,
I have to honor it.
There's opportunity there,somehow.
I cannot deny it.

(42:54):
And I have to really work on myown personal intuition.
It's one of the hardest things,I think, to see the way clearly
for yourself.
That's why so many of us go tohelpers, and when your friend
comes over and helps with yourhorse, it's probably because
she's not as attached to thefuture she can be in that moment
.
She's probably been around a lotof horses and in certain

(43:15):
situations before, there werethings in my life.
I remember when I first rode abolting horse.
When a horse bolted me for thefirst time a true bolting I
thought I might have been ruinedwith horses forever for riding.
It was one of the scariestthings that I'd ever had, and it
happened again later that thatyear, in a short time afterward,

(43:37):
and I thought, oh my God, whatam I missing?
What am I not seeing?
I'd probably worked with800,000 horses maybe more by
that time, like intimately, likereally intimately, with those
horses and I'm like but what amI missing?
I didn't see these two boltscoming.
It was the most uncomfortablething, but when I finally just

(44:00):
let go, took a breath, sloweddown, found help in the ways I
needed to, listened to myintuition, because intuition
will sometimes say this ishappening because you're
supposed to be going down adifferent road.
And sometimes intuition willsay this is happening and you
need to embrace it and keepwalking forward with it.

(44:20):
And we can't know what thatanswer is going to be and it's
different for each of us.
Nobody will know our journeysbetter than us until we're able
to just really get connected toour intuition and then trust it,
like we talked earlier, totrust life, to trust that it
happened, to not wish that itdidn't happen, because at that
moment then, all of a sudden,all of a sudden every door

(44:41):
becomes clear, what's in frontof you becomes clear.
Door becomes clear, what's infront of you becomes clear, and
then so stepping forward into itif you're finding help, as well
as going back, going back towhere you do feel comfortable
again, even if that's looking atthe horse from the other side

(45:02):
of the fence.
There's a fairness to life thatthe more you work through
something, the more that you aretaken through it.
The more you learn thatchallenge, the more you
understand it.
And then the more youunderstand it.
You see it from two angles.
You see it from a way before itever happens, so that you can
go a different way beforesomething happens, you can guide

(45:22):
it a different way.
But then you also understand itso that if it does happen, you
know what to do.
That's where true confidencecomes from with horses is that
you know what to do so thatsomething doesn't happen, but
then you also know what to do ifsomething should happen.
That's when I find that peoplecan take the deepest breaths

(45:44):
around their horses and workthrough what they are going
through.
As far as that challenge andthere's no end to how many baby
steps we can break things downinto and what we really have to
let go of is that gettingthrough it is the big reward, is
the big joy, is the big placewe're trying to get to we have

(46:05):
to go back to just standing andsitting and moving a tiny bit
through your fear with the horsetogether in that moment, to
where you both breathe, you bothlook at each other, you both
connect, you both become twohalves of a whole, wanting the
same thing, and that's the endin itself.
Right then, right there, withno place, you got to get to Let
the future come to you.
Let the future come to you.

(46:25):
Let the future come to you, andyou'll find that these things
that have happened with ourhorses, they bring us closer
together.
They bring us closer together,and where that leads to, though,
oh, who knows, who knows?
Sometimes the most courageousthing is saying maybe this horse
would be safer in somebodyelse's care.
That is just as courageous assaying I think me and this horse

(46:49):
have to work through thistogether.
And so long as the underlyingtheme is that the horse's care
will always stay the same or getbetter, then I find it's like
any other relationship out therein the world.
We get together with somebodyand we think, oh, this could be
forever, but sometimes it's justfor a little while.
And as long as, like I said, aslong as we have everybody's

(47:11):
best interests at heart beyondanything we hope to accomplish
in our relationships, then Ifind it can always go to a place
that brings us higher, alwaysfor us and the horse.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Well, people and animals, especially animals
because of their shorterlifespans, uh, come into our
life for um a season.
They're there for seasons.
People and animals are therefor seasons and they come and
they go and, um, the best thingfrom those seasons if, even if
you're sad that say you know youlose your dog, you lose your
horse, you know whatever, um,they were there for that season

(47:43):
and you learned something.
You learned something, you grewfrom it.
That's the best way to look.
Even painful things they areseasons and you learn.
So I learned from that horseand I learned that I had to
start from scratch and reallylisten and understand what it
meant to be quiet and peaceful.
And with my other horses I haveseven horses.

(48:06):
The other six I have no angstabout at all and they know it
and we're like cool, even theyoungsters who are three year
olds.
Now it's like great.
I'm with you.
Rita's here for a reason.
This is the three or she's five.
Now I'm learning something.
I'm learning something from Ritaand I just want to learn more.
And the minute I get around herand I say to myself it is what
it is, and I just want to learnmore.
And the minute I get around herand I say to myself it is what

(48:28):
it is, and I'm not going to beafraid of you, you're doing
nothing, you know, to likeconsciously, think about that,
you know, the more she goes like, well, what took you so long?
I'm just standing here, youknow, I mean, and then when she
we go for a walk, and if shegoes up, I just go quieter, just
go quieter.
You know it's like with a child.
The child gets amped up andupset and angry and scared,

(48:50):
whatever the child is feeling,cause every action is, every
action is a sign of emotion,every movement is emotion.
Um, you, you know, if you getbigger and louder and yell at
the child or scare them or likejust fall apart, like you don't
stay regulated for the child,everything is going to fall
apart.
Right, but if you can go tothat place of calmness,
quietness, I mean you try atwo-year-old, you know, which is

(49:13):
not much different than a15-year-old, when you look at
what they're trying to express.
They need to be independent,but they're still hanging on,
boy, that patience, thatquietness, that I'm not going to
let my you know reactionovershadow what they're feeling
at the moment.
I need to be present for themand that's hard, I mean.

(49:43):
I have four sons andgrandchildren and you know, and
we've worked with children,young women that have come and
stayed with us, that have hadterrible trauma and adverse
childhood you know, experiencesthe same thing with horses,
experiences the same thing withhorses.
Instead of going, what's wrongwith you when you look?

Speaker 1 (49:52):
at the horse you have to.
You can say what happened toyou, but also turn that back.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Turn that back on yourself Instead of saying
what's wrong with me?
Why am I afraid?
Why am I a problem?
You know you can go like, okay,this is what happened and now I
can let it go or I can workthrough it or I learned
something.
And it seems to me that thingshappen to you and the horse has
helped you learn something, andnow you're turning that around
and helping others which is sucha great thing on their journeys
to get to a place of beingpresent and being thoughtful and

(50:18):
being there.
I mean, how wonderful is that,chris?
We're grateful.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
Yeah, it never ends.
As far as this journey oflearning and all of that, and
I've uh, I've learned to be verykind and gentle with myself.
I used to be, I used to feel,if we looked at, like you know,
six years ago or so, I'd say I,I'd feel like, okay, I really
feel very in tune with horsesand people and this work and the

(50:47):
clinics and everything else.
And then and then I would gothrough my own learning phase.
Something would happen, and Iwould you, but it always had the
same sort of um feel to it.
It always felt like rushing, italways felt like I was rushing,
I was pushing, and then I wouldyou know I'd be driving away
from the person and their horsethat I was visiting that day, or

(51:09):
it'd be the end of the day atthe clinic and I'd be like that
didn't feel too good.
You know that didn't feel and itwould be very uncomfortable in
me because I felt like I had tobe this steady, strong, always,
always connected, always in theflow, and it came from a very
innocent place.
It came from a very innocentplace of wanting to be good for

(51:32):
everybody and good for allhorses, but it was also attached
to an insecure place aboutfinding something and self-worth
a long time ago in this workwith horses Finding something
that when you find something,that people seem to go hey,
you're good at that.
Um, I think it's impossible notto attach some self-worth and
self-meaning to that, and youwant to keep that.

(51:53):
You want to.
You want to feel like you'reenough.
You want to feel like you'relike, you want to.
At the end of the day, as deepas it goes, you want to feel
like you're loved and it's thatpart of us.
that's looking for our wholenessoutside of ourselves, love
outside of ourselves, whichwe'll be running in circles
doing that and we'll be puttinga lot of that on the horses in
not healthy ways, trying to havethem live and do and be in a

(52:18):
certain way that fills in for usand makes us feel good and
feels like we're good withhorses and good in life in all
ways.
And then when they're not doingit, then we'll get pretty
frustrated pretty quickly.
We'll blame them.
So that inner work it's reallythe greatest work and I believe
it is the biggest work as far ashaving an effect on our horses

(52:41):
and how we are around them, howwe care for them and how we work
with them is our own inner worktowards finding our own
wholeness within our own love,within our love for ourselves.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
Like you said, love and connection.
For sure what you said.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Love and connection for ourselves from within that
great wellspring of love.
And connection within where wefeel I am loved, I am safe and I
am never alone.
Connection within where we feelI am loved, I am safe and I am
never alone.
You have an individual feelthat and then have them walk up
to a horse.

(53:17):
Oh, we're looking at a being ofyou know 60 million years or so
of evolution, where energy andpresence and body language is
their number one way of readinga being, as the being's walking
up to them.
And now we're talking about auniversal language that
transcends species here.
Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Which is their number .
One way of reading a being isthe beings walking up to them.
And now we're talking about auniversal language that
transcends species here.
Oh, absolutely, I mean, there'sa reason we don't ride
rhinoceroses.
There's a reason the horse, thedog, the cat, the domestic
animals choose.
If they choose, at least itseems they can.
So, yes, absolutely, and Ithink it does go back, and I
think it's in our DNA to want tobe with animals and to be with
nature.
I think it's very human, Ithink we all have, whether we

(53:53):
say we like animals or not.
I think there's an animalshaped hole in all of us in some
level, you know, because, giventhe opportunity, how could
someone not love a cat?
I, you know, cats are the, youknow.
Okay, we could go on and oncats, chickens, cattle, all of
it, you know dogs.
I mean my whole life is animals,it's animal centric.
How lucky and blessed I am tohave that as my living.

(54:16):
To train animal actors to, youknow, be an animal photographer,
to do this, talk to amazingpeople like you.
So I, everyone, should just goget a cat or a dog or, you know,
go connect, go get out theirhorse, whatever it takes.
That's why we have therapyanimals, you know, I mean
because we all feel good aroundthem, you know.

(54:37):
So, yeah, my husband was justtalking I'm sorry, chris, my
husband was just talking theother day that we're talking
about somebody who was at theend of life and how they were in
hospice, you know, and it wassad.
And we were talking aboutsomeone and he said, well, if
I'm ever faced with that, or youknow, or I have time where I'm
dying slowly, he said, justsurround me with cats, let me
just have all my cats.
I just cause we have a lot ofcats and he just like that gives

(54:59):
him so much comfort and it'slike, just, you know, whatever
you need to do, make sure that Ihave, you know, seven, eight,
10, however many cats want tosit with me there.
That's what I love, all myfamily, but you make sure
there's cats, and I think that'sgreat.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
So absolutely yeah.
I think animals embody a lovingpresence for the wholeness of
the moment, the wholeness oflife in the moment.
You know there's there's manydifferences between us with
animals.
The bodies are certainlydifferent and as much as we can
learn about those differences,the better off.
We are Minds the minds aredifferent in their capability

(55:36):
and all of that but.
I don't see that as anydifferent, as how humans are
different mind to mind.
Humans are different in theirmental capability as well.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
And the word is.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
The word is only different, but it doesn't mean
better or worse and that's whereI think a lot of us humans, you
know, are mistaken is we tendto feel like we're above animals
in some way, and I find thatwhere we, you know, we talk
about those great things thatunify us, like life and death,
and when the animals that I'vebeen around that have passed on,

(56:07):
they have a great acceptance ofit, they seem to have a great
knowing that it's just atransition, that nothing's wrong
, nothing's bad.
And, yes, it might be scary.
The body is going to think it'sscary, certainly enough, the
body has reactions in trying tostay alive during those times.
But that soulful part ofanimals we were talking about,

(56:29):
that seems to be very much atpeace with this journey, whether
it's a year long or 10 years or100.
And uh, and no matter what'shappened within the journey,
they almost have this great Idon't want to say forgiveness of
life, but a a great knowing oflife is a road of ups and downs
and challenges a lot of unknown,and so when humans are around

(56:52):
animals, there's a reason why wego to them for hard times and
certainly there's a reason whywe go to them during times where
people feel like they're closeto passing and they embody, even
if we're not aware of it.
mentally, we feel somethingenergetically, we feel something
soulfully, where the animal'sembodying a feeling of it's okay

(57:13):
, it's going to be all right,and that's often just enough.
It doesn't have to be explainedbeyond that.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
No, that's wonderful.
Well, as I said, we could justtalk a long time.
There's so much that we want tolearn that you can share with
us.
But we're to the last part ofthe show where we talk about the
questions.
Tim Ferriss has a book calledTribe of Mentors and he has
these 20 questions that he askedhis people in the book and his

(57:41):
show, and we're stealing totallythe idea.
So we sent 20 of the questionsthat Tim Ferriss asked people
and had you pick out five ofthem, and they're just a great
way to wrap up the show and letpeople get to know you on
another level.
And then the last thing we'lldo is, of course, talk about how
people can get in touch withyou and you know things like
that, All right.
So the first question that youpicked was what is the most

(58:04):
valuable thing that you put yourtime into that has changed the
course of your life?

Speaker 1 (58:10):
yes, I remember picking that one.
I was like well, I already knowmy answer for that and we and
we talked about it a little bitearlier it's the um, the
wholeness within, the wholenesswithin.
I believe a lot of our journeyin this world is to experience
our life as whole, ourselves aswhole, from the inside out,

(58:30):
where we have this great I callit the wellspring of love from
within, the never-endingwellspring of love from within.
And what comes right along withthat is just a feeling of
safety as we go on our journeyand a feeling of never, ever
being alone.
Journey and a feeling of never,ever being alone.
And the reason why that hasbeen the most important thing

(58:52):
for me is because it's like apractice.
As far as the physical part ofthis world, everything is a
practice.
I don't care how many times I'vedone a hindquarter yield with a
horse, I still feel like I'mpracticing it, even though I've
probably done it 20,000 times.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Sure yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
And I'm still missing them all the time Like, oh, I
could have moved this way alittle bit more, could have
asked a little less or a littlemore.
All these different things soit's a constant practice
physically in this world, but ifI can find that feeling within
me that I spoke about as I go tobe around a horse, care for a
horse or work with a horsewherever it goes, I find is just

(59:31):
beautiful right from the start,yeah, that's made a big
difference for me.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
That's great.
I understand what inspires andmotivates you to do what you do
and what is your true purpose inthe world.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
You spoke earlier about those things that are kind
of born into us.
You know, when we come intothis world and I have a very
strong drawing to be out therewith horses and with people and
to be fostering opportunity forseeing and understanding and

(01:00:07):
connection between the two ofthem, and when I, when I'm out
there with people and horses,there's an evenness to it.
I feel like we're all thereevenly together.
I do not feel like I'm leading.
I feel like we're all leadingtogether and we're all learning
together and I'm simply therefor safety and organization and
to offer guidance when needed,based on the fact of what's come

(01:00:32):
before.
All the horses, all the people,all the different adventures
and journeys that I've been onand all of that that I can maybe
offer assistance if asked.
But there's something that Ifeel during that time and
working with people and horsesthat fills me up just as great
as anything that they might begetting filled up with as well

(01:00:54):
the work that they're doing andI can tell I can't get away from
that.
It feels like it's born into me.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
I understand.
Yeah, all right.
What is your relationship withfear?

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
It's a guide, it's a locator, it's not a bad thing.
Fear gets such a bad rap.
It's so innocent.
Even the fears that we've kindof made up mentally in our heads
.
It's still showing us thatwe're capable of doing.
That of us is being able totake those deep breaths and

(01:01:31):
relax and look at ourselves and,like I said, be gentle and
understanding of ourselves,realize that this is a practice.
There's no perfection to lifeand that we don't have to
compare ourselves to anybodyelse or to who we think we
should be or anything else, andthat our thinking can sometimes

(01:01:53):
be our own worst enemy.
This is what fear shows us.
It's like a little beacon light.
It's like a little lighthouse.
It just makes me aware ofsomething that is getting in the
way of myself, whether that bemy own mind, or whether that be
something real, whether that be,an inner sense that yes, chris,

(01:02:15):
there is a bunch of turkeys inthe grass over there and they're
about to jump up.
Oh, thank you here, thank youawareness right there, I think
I'll.
I'll stop the horse, get downand we'll maybe walk towards
them slowly or maybe even turnaround and not disturb them.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
I have to see what my intuition says yeah, there's a
reason we run from tigers, youknow, or?

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
don't mess with tigers, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
What did you want to be as a child, and how close did
you get to that dream?
Oh, I forgot, I picked that oneI'm very curious, because you
didn't know horses until laterso you know Exactly when I
picked these.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
I felt like I didn't pick them because I already had
the answer.
They're the ones that I feltthat I was drawn to, and all
that, but this one, I feel likeI got nothing right off.
Yeah, let's see where this goes.
I would say, as I had a child,there's two passions in my life,
two passions that I can't getaway from, and they are tied to
my heart very closely, and oneis being around and working with

(01:03:14):
horses and people, and theother one is writing writing
stories.
Non-fiction poetry even writing.
You know social media that's agreat outlet for me to speak my
heart and social media.
So I remember, though.
I remember when I was youngsitting on the bed.

(01:03:35):
I don't know how old I was, butI'm sitting on the bed with my
mom and she didn't quite knowwhat I was talking about.
She was like what are youtalking about?
And I said.
I said I don't know, mom, Ifeel I have to be out there
doing something with people, andthen I and I have to tell about
it.
I have to do something and tellabout it.

(01:04:03):
It's like eight-year-old kidit's talking.
She's like what?
I'm like, yeah, I have to beout there.
And I was an animal lover,big-time animal lover.
Everybody knew that and I waslike I'm supposed to be out
there doing something, mom, andthen I gotta tell about she's
like huh, you know, this wouldhave been like in the early 80s
or whatever, and I don't knowabout.
She was like huh, you know,this would have been like in the
early 80s or whatever.
And I don't know if she wasthinking, okay, he's just a kid,
or I don't know, we've nevertalked about this or whatever.
I don't know she'd evenremember it.

(01:04:23):
But what I feel in my heart,what was there, was the feeling
of I'm supposed to be out there,you know, just helping horses,
helping people and horses asbest I can.
And then the telling about itis the writing about it, because
that is just as strong in me asto sit down afterward and sort
of come to peace with it throughwriting and also help myself to

(01:04:45):
understand it as far as thelearnings that I can have from
it, not only about myself butall of life.
So I think that's what I wouldanswer for that one.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
That's a good answer.
And then the last one do youhave a favorite animal companion
?

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Oh, I don't know why I picked this one.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
I picked this one because I said I'm going to get
to talk about Rocky and Matea.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
We'd like that, Rocky .
I have a hard time saying usedto be or was.
Rocky was a horse that I wasvery connected to.
He passed away this past lateMarch.
He was 21 years old and Matea,a dog I was very connected to,

(01:05:37):
passed away at 13 years old ayear ago, and those were my
deepest most connected animalcompanions so far in this world,
and not to judge depth, not tocompare, you know when I say
deepest, but that's just the.
And there's a horse in my lifenow named Tally, and I feel the
same sort of thing that I feltwith Rocky, that same sort of

(01:05:59):
connection, and it will bedifferent, but also I believe it
will feel the same in many ways.
But not to speak about this,one was deeper or that deeper or
more deeper in that way.
I don't think that's.
I think there's just thesedifferent relationships we have
with animals that take us, takeus pretty far.

(01:06:19):
And Matea felt like she waswalking beside me through it all
, experiencing it all with me,like I don't know, chris, what's
this?
I don't know, let's go.
Matea felt like my adventurebuddy, tied right to my hip
through anything.
She wouldn't let me go throughanything alone, no matter what
it was, and probably the deepestjourneys we experienced

(01:06:40):
together were what I wentthrough emotionally in the last
13 years, and she would not letme go through that alone.
Rocky, I always describe Rockyto me.
He felt like he had one hoof inthis world and one hoof in the
other.
He was right there with methrough all these journeys.
But boy was there a big part ofhim that felt like he
understood it all and knew whereit was all going and knew why

(01:07:02):
things were happening.
He felt like my greatestteacher.
At the same time he was mygreatest friend, he felt like
while I was teaching him.
I knew him since he was a foaland he went through so many
incarnations of me in 21 years,so many times where I was like,
ooh Rocky, I learned this newthing.

(01:07:22):
Let's try it, Okay, Chris Allright, so forgiving.
So forgiving and so manyincarnations of me, emotionally
as well.
You know like I'm so tied tothose guys that whatever I went
through in life, you knowpersonally, I couldn't help but
have that be present when I wasworking and doing things with
them, and no matter how manychanges I went through there as

(01:07:46):
well, he was always right therewith me, always right there with
me and deeper for it, deeperfor it.
And the work that we did,whether it was alone, him and I,
or whether it was out there atclinics, or whether it was a
demonstrations or expos or horseshows or performances or
whatever place, in all of thatthat's beyond mind and body in

(01:08:18):
his presence and in his choiceto, to be there and to follow
wherever it may lead.
Even if he did not know where Iwas leading or what was around
that next corner, even if Ididn't know, he still trusted in
it to come, to come full circlehere, to come full circle for
this hour that we've been here.
Barbara Rocky trusted life withme.
Rocky trusted life with me andthat was in every one of his

(01:08:39):
steps that he took with me.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
Yes, I understand and I agree All horse people and
dog people, certainly anyonewho's loved an animal can relate
to what you're saying andunderstand it.
I just I hadn't ridden for fouryears after I lost my hard
horse because I had young horsesor our rescue mares were
rideable.
So they're just here and welove them.
And then recently someone gaveme the opportunity to pick up

(01:09:02):
this gelding, this 18 year oldMorgan gelding, who is is
rideable and we're building ourrelationship now.
I've only had him a few monthsbut I finally rode him around
the farm bareback because thesaddle wasn't going to be the
right fit and I thought I'lljust ride you bareback.
And that was a trust buildingfor both of us because, you know
, I didn't want to get hurt, bescared.
So that was all fine and Iwrote about it on Facebook.
I said I finally rode.
You know, Teddy, he's such alovely boy and he was very

(01:09:28):
giving, very understanding, andI mentioned how I, your hard
horse, was right there with youand that just I was like, yeah,
probably, you know, I feel thatwas possible.
He was just, he was just rightthere with me.
Like you, this is going to beokay.
You can.
You can love this horse Likeyou loved me.
You know, permission it was, uh, it was really a wonderful

(01:09:48):
thing that person said because,uh, I feel they never really go
away when someone you love, ahuman being, dies.
Do they really go away?
No, I mean, if you're open,they're with you.
As long as you're open, they'rewith you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
They don't go away.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
It's eternal, and I feel our animal souls can be
that way too.
And it was just so gratifyingto visualize that Finn, this
Morgan Gilding, very similar towhat Teddy is now, was with me.
That really touched my heart.
Rocky's with you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
You know that.
Well said, yeah, thanks forthat, barbara.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
That's a good place to.
I don't feel like crying too,because now I feel sad for you
and Rocky.
I get it so deeply and your dog, of course.

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
Of course your dog too.

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
Thanks for that too.
Yeah, all right.
So, uh, how?
What's the?
We're going to, of course, listeverything, all the links you
gave us and things in the shownotes, but how do people find
you if they want to work withyou?
Um, certainly, your books are,um online.
We can have links to those.
I recommend everyone readingthem.
Just reading the synopsis onthe description, I was like, oh,
oh, I, cause we just arrangedthis, so I haven't got your book

(01:10:56):
yet, but I'm going to get yourbooks because I'm like I want to
know what happened, why, at 26,and then, how did you get there
?
And all those things you talkabout in your, in your books.
Um, you know, it should be amovie.
As far as I'm concerned,somebody better pick it up, uh,
but how?
Uh, what's the best way tostart?
Uh, I found you on Facebook, um, and follow you there,
certainly, but what's what's thebest way for people to if they

(01:11:17):
want to reach out and learn moreabout you?

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
Oh, the best way would be the website, probably,
which is chrislombardcom, andthat has links on there to both
the Instagram and Facebook pages, which I do a lot of writing
because, like I said, I love it.
I love writing about horses andall the adventures we all take
with them, so I do a lot ofsocial media writing.
And then the books yep, they'reavailable if you just kind of

(01:11:42):
Google them out there there'sLand of the Horses, which is
about the two years that I spentout west.
The Horses and Our Stars, whichis more about the journey
within, more about the soulful,heartfelt journey and the
adventures there that we havewith horses well, that's great,
that's great.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
Oh wow, I'm just, I want to go hug my horses right
now I just want to go out thereand talk to them and go.
I'm going to be present and I'mgoing to be quiet and I'm going
to be still and just not lookat my phone, not even bring it
out there.
You know, just right.
Right, that's how talking toyou has made me feel today and
I'm grateful for that.
Thank you, chris, for forcoming on the podcast.
We really appreciate yousharing a really important

(01:12:20):
message in this changing worldof horses.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
Barbara, I just had a blast here and I can't thank
you enough for creating thisplace where people can go and
talk and also feel heard andseen and known just by listening
to this podcast and everythingthe people that you've had on
and what they're sharing.
Like we talked earlier, I lovelistening to podcasts while I'm
driving and while I'm workingaround the house and all of that

(01:12:46):
and putting on a podcast suchas yours and everything I'm
going to feel like all right.
I can really understand whatthey're talking about.
Right now, I really feel likeI'm a part of something, so
you're creating a place ofcommunity here through this, and
this is that's very important.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
Well, thank you, that was my goal.
I wanted to just talk to peoplethat can spread the word
because it's happening in thedog world.
It's getting better for dogsall the time Horses it's a
little slower catching on, andthe more we can get it out there
that this is possible, that itdoesn't have to be the way it
was.
It's possible and there's noshame in what happened before.

(01:13:21):
Move forward.
You know you might not havealways had the best methods, but
you're different now and that'sgoing to be better for your
horse and we all, as you know,horse people feel that.
So move on, move with them, gowith them.
It's wonderful.

Speaker 1 (01:13:35):
Thank you again, Chris.
Thank you so much, Brian.