December 22, 2023 • 58 mins
Summary
Dr. Susan Faye discusses the importance of horses in our lives and the lessons they teach us. She emphasizes the need for emotional awareness and being present with horses and other animals. Dr. Faye explains how energy regulation and acknowledging our emotions can improve our relationships with animals. She also discusses her book 'Sacred Spaces' and the science behind the connection between humans and horses. Dr. Faye shares her experiences with horses and the transformative power of going slow. She encourages listeners to be in the world in a more meaningful way and make a positive impact.
Takeaways
- Emotional awareness and regulation are essential for building a strong connection with horses and other animals.
- Being present and regulated in our interactions with animals can improve their well-being and our relationship with them.
- Going slow and taking the time to understand horses can lead to transformative experiences and build trust.
- Energy awareness and being congruent with our emotions can enhance communication and understanding with animals.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hi, I'm Barbara O'Brien.
I'm an animal trainer andphotographer, and I'd like to
welcome you to the empathetictrainer.
Welcome, dr Susan Fay, to theEpithetic Trainer Podcast.
We are so glad to have you heretoday.
We appreciate you taking thetime to join us.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Well, I am, as always , honored if somebody reaches
out to me, and I'm really happyto get the word out to anybody
that wants to listen.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Well, that's great because we have we have, you
know, limited time, but we havea lot to cover, because you've
got some wonderful informationto share with horse owners,
which I believe applies to allthe animals in our lives and it
applies also to the people.
So I think this is a goodmessage that we really want to
spread to anyone that, like yousay, is ready to receive it,
(01:03):
because that's the whole thingwe're going to talk about.
But let me do let me do theformal introduction, so that
people know, okay, what we'redoing here?
Okay.
Dr Susan Fay is aninternationally known speaker,
clinician, equine consultant andauthor of sacred spaces
communion with the horse throughscience and spirit.
She has an educationalbackground in psychology and
(01:25):
environmental science butbelieves she has learned the
most valuable life lessons fromher horses.
I want to say that almost anyany true lover of horses is
going to agree with you on thatpoint, that we learned
everything, the most importantthings, from horses.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
So yes, I have to agree through there.
Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Okay, well, what I like to start off with is kind
of like how did this happen?
Let me?
What I mean happen is how didyou fall in love with horses and
why are horses your life?
And we have to talk aboutMorgan horses because I have six
of them and so, sorry, breedbias here.
But we have to talk a littlebit about Morgan's before we're
(02:08):
done.
I just put a thing on Facebook.
I asked I had a.
I was wondering is it geneticor where does it come from that?
Some of us are just bornknowing we have to be around
horses.
Some of us don't even get thatopportunity, but we are born
knowing it.
I didn't get to be around themtill I was 12 or 13, when I was
(02:30):
old enough to work for mylessons, but like my parents
didn't have them, you know theyweren't horse people.
Did that happen to you?
Are you exposed later?
Were you exposed early?
Were you just?
How do people are reborn thisway?
This is just a question I haveand I'd like to hear about how
you started out with horses.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I believe we're born this way because I believe my
first conscious thought as aninfant wasn't horses.
I had to speak in order to askquestions about horses but, like
you, my parents did not haveanything to do with them and
nobody in my family did so I wasthe oddball and I was just
(03:10):
obsessed.
That's all I thought about formy entire childhood.
And then I probably bugged myfather enough that at nine years
old, when we moved up to themountains, we could have a horse
and that's what I got.
So that shut me up, at leastfor them.
You know, I could just go outand spend time with my horse and
be perfectly happy.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I understand that.
I think horses and children areso good for each other.
They benefit, of course, boysand girls equally, but
especially young girls, I think.
Learn to have a voice withhorses, and we're going to talk
more about that.
So you were a horse kid, andthen what happened?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Well then of course your parents tell you you have
to have a real job and you haveto have a real career because
there's no money in horses.
And I believe that was more trueback in the 60s, when I was
growing up in the 70s, that youdidn't see a whole lot of women,
especially out there doinganything at quite in a big way,
(04:15):
other than a few trainers outthere.
But things were so differentthen and really I don't believe
I would have been able to make aliving in the horse world, or
it would have been reallydifficult back then.
So of course then I went intothe other love, which was being
outdoors and all that.
So I decided to studyenvironmental science and so
(04:38):
that kept me connected to natureand outside and but it also put
me more in the human world thanI would have liked, in all the
politics and everything thatcomes with participating in that
type of profession.
So I really missed the horses.
(05:00):
I always kept them on the side.
I'd have horses and I do ridingwhenever I could, but I didn't
really get a chance to exploreit in a big way until I got
married and we moved to a ranchand then I could have my mork
and horses and start doing alittle bit of a breeding program
and riding and all of that.
(05:22):
So that was my progression.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Oh, sure, sure, I totally get that.
I eloped with my husband so Icould have a horse.
So I was lucky to get my firsthorse, I mean when I was 19, so
still same husband, still morkand horses, so pretty blessed
there.
But I get that it was like youhad to have them in your life
and you had to make it worksomehow and by having the great
(05:48):
relationship, I hope, and yougot to do that when you were,
you know, younger as opposed toa lot of women have to give up
and wait and wait and wait untilthey decided it's too late
which I think it's never toolate or they get into them,
which is great.
But I wish everybody who wantedto, who was born with it, had
the opportunity.
I wish we could make that.
(06:08):
So, absolutely okay.
So you went to school forenvironmental studies.
What I found so interesting,let's let's talk about your book
, because this was, um, everyonecan.
Can you see if I get it infocus here?
Uh, I don't know how to make itfocus on the camera, but it's
called sacred spaces communionwith the horse through science
(06:30):
and spirit, and this was areally deep and good and
interesting read because ittalks so much about how we can
have the a brain scienceconnection, almost, and a heart
science connection, becausethere's a lot of people who are
(06:51):
kind of like, oh, that's allwhat.
Uh, warwick shiller, one of ourfavorite horse people, calls
you know who, and it's like thisis all supernatural, and but
there, and he also agrees withyou that there's definitely a
science behind all of this.
Now, how did you stumble oops,sorry, how did you come across
like mixing what you feltintuitively, what we felt, with
(07:14):
fact, because some people don'tbelieve in just how things feel.
They want hard, hard facts.
How did you come across that?
What happened, that thathappened?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
it was interesting because on the ranch and I was
interacting with the horses, itwas really natural and I just
felt like I spoke to them andthey did the things.
And, um, when it came time andI, I was divorced and I thought
you know what, in order to bringthis to the world in a bigger
(07:45):
way, I feel like it's veryimportant to bring the science
into it so that it doesn't justget put into a particular box
and then perhaps people don'tlook in that box necessarily
because it says woo or somethinglike that on it and people go,
oh, I don't want that box.
And I thought, you know, weneed to really look at what is
(08:07):
really happening inside of usand why is this happening.
And I I was always so curiousabout that, even since I was
about 12 years old, studying thebrain and and these kind of
things about optimizing ourbrain function, and that's not
usually a 12 year old deal, butfor me it was fascinating.
(08:27):
And as I began to go out thereand interact more in the horse
world, I realized that peoplewere struggling with things that
could be fixed very simply byunderstanding your brain and
your body and how you're reallycommunicating energetically.
So that really stuck me in tothis place where I've got to
(08:51):
know more.
And can I teach that tosomebody?
Can I teach these same thingsto someone else?
And when I wrote Sacred Spaces,the book, I was introducing
people to this idea that therewas something scientific to the
woo, that we could actually useenergy or have energy genic
(09:14):
awareness and actually findbetter communication and
connection to communion with ouranimals.
So that was really reallyimportant to me, especially, I
think, as an older woman goingout there and trying to have
your voice heard, it seemed realimportant to have the science
(09:36):
and to go.
You know, if I was at somegathering or and somebody
confronted me, I was like Idon't believe that it doesn't
work.
I could say exactly what I didinternally to create the thing
that presented in the horse.
So okay.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Well, let's talk about that.
When you say something youcreated internally to present to
the horse, what does that meanfor someone that does not have
any background or understand?
You know, understanding thatlike you could break it down
yeah to the simplistic right andreally what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
We are energetic beings, just like horses.
That's why we can do thisparticular thing.
But when we have a thought,when we have an emotion, we
create a particular energysignature.
It's like a frequency in ourbody that aligns with our
thought, in our emotion, andthen it broadcasts that
(10:29):
information out into the spacearound us, a little bit like a
radio station.
If you dial to particularstation, you know what you're
going to get and that station isa frequency 97.3 FM.
You go to that frequency andyou always get that station and
our bodies work the same way.
(10:50):
We can create differentfrequencies with an
understanding of where am Igoing and what am I now
broadcasting.
So, in a kind of a simplisticway again, every thought, every
emotion aligns to create ourradio station that we're on at
that moment, and having anawareness of what's going on
(11:13):
gives us a lot more power in ourlives to choose what station
we're playing.
So a lot of times I've noticedpeople are not aware of their
internal life, what's going oninside their body, and so they
may switch channels all the timeand, if you think about it, in
between each radio station is awhole lot of static, and so
(11:37):
that's what the horses arehearing from people that are not
aligned with their thoughts andtheir emotions, and they just
go interact with the horse andmaybe they're on a station for a
while and then they getdistracted and they go to some
other station and in betweenthere's a lot of static and the
horse is trying to understandwhat they're saying but they
can't, because it's a badconnection or an inconsistent
(11:58):
connection.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Sorry, is it a form of being incongruent?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I've gotten in a fight with my husband or
something right, and then I gooutside and I'm, you know,
whatever, right, we haven'tresolved it till later and I go,
I'm going to go be with myhorses now and I go out to my.
I would go out to my horse andthen go like I'm fine, you know,
but I wasn't fine.
And then that's confusing forthe horse, correct?
(12:25):
Because, like they say, leaveit, leave it behind.
You know, you out to the barn,you leave it behind, you go.
Wouldn't it have been better ifI went out and said, well, I
just got into a fight and I'mstill kind of crabby about it.
I'm with you now and you knowI'm.
I'm sure we're going to workthis out and whatever.
But this is how I'm feeling andI can sort of identify the
station, like you're saying thatI'm on and then be like just
(12:49):
being aware, instead of tryingto cover up or push down or be
different.
Is that what you're kind ofsaying?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Absolutely, you coined it perfectly.
Yes, and you know, like you say, horses know when we're not
congruent and we can saysomething on the outside and not
be meaning that on the inside,our body speaking a different
language, then the same thingworks for fear.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Then, because they'd say like, don't show me, you're
afraid.
You know this was the don'tshow me, you're afraid, because
then they're going to what areyou afraid of and you know?
Or because horses don't realizewe're afraid of them.
You're right, exactly so.
But if you can acknowledge,because I'm just learning, this
is all new for me I'm, you know,the last couple of years, I
(13:31):
don't know if you know, but I'vebeen an animal actor trainer
since the 80s, right, so I workwith animal actors, but I've
never given my horses theconsideration that I've given
the dogs, the cats, the chickens, you know, the things that I'm
working with in, likeunderstanding their brains and
how they think and whatever.
I haven't taken the time becausethey don't work as much you
know they're not modeling asmuch as the dog, and it has been
(13:53):
mind blowing to discover peoplelike you and Carrie Lake and
Mary Corning Luckily we had themon the podcast as well, and it
was wonderful and people likework Schiller and others who are
really helping change how weview our relationships with
horses, which I think is goingto be so much better for horses,
and so thank you for your partin that.
(14:17):
So what is your suggestion then?
Like, for instance, someone, isI run into this with this
Morgan horse.
I got like a three Morganhorses from out west.
They hadn't been handled awhole lot.
They were treated well but justnot handled all young and the
four year old that came wasreally defensive and anxious
when she first arrived, whichcaused me to be afraid of her,
(14:39):
and I had to have a whole mindshift and some help with what
you're talking about telling her.
I'm afraid, you know, and itreally changed things because I
visualized differently how Iwant the relationship to be and
gave her all the time she neededto feel safe, with no agenda,
and now now she's discoveredthat scratching her butt is like
(15:01):
the most favorite thing in thewhole world and so she'll tell
me please do that, and we havethis, we can do things.
You say something about howgoing slower is going faster.
You have it phrased reallybeautifully, but I'm talking too
much.
I need to get back to you, butI'm so much.
Your book helps so much with metelling her I feel and then
(15:23):
working through the feelingswith her.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It does.
And I'm really about us havingawareness again of where is our
body, where is our mind, and canwe get incongruence and can we
actually choose how we want tofeel in the moment.
So it's okay to go in if you'rea little bit upset and tell
your horse, yes, here's why I'mat today.
But then what can you do toswitch that Exactly and that's
(15:50):
what I focus on is like we'regoing to choose which radio
station we're going to play ateach moment to support the horse
and what they're going through,or support our interaction.
And so again, I have to getinto a little bit more
explanation about this, becausein this energy field, a lot of
people are what they're doing issending a horse and energy
(16:14):
they're they go.
Oh, I think that horse isafraid I'm going to send him
relaxation.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
No, we don't need to do any of that we are a model
for our horses.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I keep all of my energy right next to my body and
I switch my channel.
And just remember back in theanalogy of the radio station.
I don't have to go blast thatout to the horse, but if that
horse were interested in theradio station that I'm playing,
they will come and come closeror they will come and go.
(16:48):
Oh, I'm going to listen to thatone and just like music when it
plays.
You play music and then all ofa sudden you're captured by the
music and you're in the feel ofthat music.
Same way that this energy isworking.
I just have to switch myself.
I don't have to worry about it.
I just look at the horse, go,wow, I think you're struggling
(17:08):
and you're a little anxious.
Let me model for you what theopposite of that is Safe,
comfortable, relaxed, grounded,and that's all I have to do.
And then the horse will copy orentrain to that feeling that
I've just modeled.
(17:30):
It's a whole different conceptof what a lot of people are
doing with energy, and what isreally good is that we want to
keep our energy within ourselves.
I don't send my energy out.
I don't take any on.
Therefore, I'm a closed systemin terms of my energy field and
I don't get depleted, and it'slike I said, it's a very
(17:57):
different concept than a lot ofpeople are teaching out there.
As far as the energy work goes,I don't even call it energy
work because I'm not working.
I am just aware so I'm changingit to, instead of energy work,
energy awareness that I'm goingto know what to do to support
that animal.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Okay.
So for someone who's new tothis, then and it's this energy
awareness.
So how do we?
I mean some people that came tothem and they are just natural
with the horses and like theyget it and they can't even
explain it, like you're good atexplaining it.
They've been there doing it,but you're really good at
explaining it.
You know, besides having thescience behind it, how does the
(18:36):
average person who doesn't know,like you know, for instance, me
, I'm going to go out there.
What would you recommend?
I'd like to learn.
How do I learn how to do this?
Because this is fascinating,you know.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Right and this is part of my program that the
sacred spaces book was where I'mworking from.
It's the overview of what I'mdoing.
But now when I go and do achange of mind from clinics to
gatherings to give it adifferent feel, I teach the
people the ways that wecommunicate energetically and
(19:09):
get them in touch with that.
And one of my foundationalthings that I do is breathing.
There's a very specific waythat I breathe to communicate
things to the horse and toactually provide myself with a
quick reset of my entire system.
So let's say I get anxious orthis horse did something and all
(19:31):
of a sudden I feel anxious andI feel that anxiety in my chest
and my body tightens and allthese things.
Well, this breathing that I dowill reset you back to your
relaxation place.
So it is also when I teachpeople the breathing it's to
actually be able to hold andmaintain a particular energy
(19:55):
frequency.
That you're doing and it goesalong with a body scan, which is
super important, of knowingwhat does my body feel like when
I'm playing a particular radiostation.
That's all you need to know.
What does my body feel like andwould the feeling that I have
in myself be what I would wantmy horse to experience.
(20:16):
Would that be helpful?
So, for example, we'll go backto safety and comfort.
I'm breathing, first of all,consistently, regularly,
smoothly, full body breathing,not just breathing from my
stomach or my heart or someother place.
I'm breathing fully through myentire body because my breath is
(20:40):
my energy field and so I wantto know where it's at every
moment and what it's saying.
And then I become aware ofwhere my energy is by scanning
my body internally every time.
I take a breath and go okay, oh, some tension just came up here
, I need to breathe that out.
(21:00):
And then, when we create afrequency, say we're going to go
for an anxious horse, safetyand comfort as my energy, then
I'm going to try.
I go through my body and go okay, I'm scanning my body.
Yes, my feet feel grounded.
Yes, I feel complete relaxationin my fully throughout my body.
(21:22):
Yes, I feel warm here.
I feel like my brain hasstopped moving.
I feel present.
All of these things are thingsthat we're doing somatically to
notice.
Okay, good, I'm set, now I canbe a, communicate this to my
horse with clarity, and I stayin that and I just breathe, and
(21:48):
I stay in that feeling of thesafety and comfort and pretty
soon you see the horse releasingand relaxing.
And it's a little morecomplicated not too complicated,
but I walk people through theability to create these
different frequencies that willsupport the horse and you will
get instant feedback from thehorse on whether or not that's
(22:11):
something that's helpful or nothelpful for them.
So that's the great thing it'san instant feedback mechanism to
right.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Does it the average person?
This is something they'd haveto practice, right?
We can't just walk out thereand it doesn't come.
I mean, because doesn't ourbrain get distracted and it's
really hard to like get intothat space to yes, and that's
learned, though.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Right, you can learn it Absolutely and that's what
the breathing is.
That I do is for.
It's to get us into AlphaBrainwave, which I talk about in
my book, which is a relaxed andfocused, it's a waking
meditation that you can do Onceyou get into this breathing and
(22:53):
you can be in a wakingmeditation and you can go about
your life and you can switchchannels and you can do all of
this stuff and that wakingmeditation will keep you in that
state that we all do.
Where we sit for hours andmeditate, we can do in about two
minutes with this or less.
You can train your body, onceyou get the breathing down, to
(23:17):
stay in a waking meditation allof the time.
That's what people ask me well,when do you do this breathing?
All of the time?
It has changed my life, okay,because I can stay present,
focus, relaxed and have alphabrainwaves, which are optimal
for the horse, and I can haveawareness.
All of the things that you knowwe're trying to do through
(23:40):
hours of meditation we can do ifwe practice this breathing
through just a few minutes andit becomes our life so this can
apply to how we're dealing withour other animals, obviously
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
I know that when I work with cats I mean there has
to be a regulation of myemotions.
Is dogs put up with an awful lot, you know they'll let their
dogs and then used to be reallyawful hit your dog.
You know things like that,right dog would come back.
A cat would never tolerate,right?
So of course, I'm kind to dogsand, you know, regulated with
(24:13):
dogs, but cats are verysensitive as well and there's no
pushing them around or forcinganything, and so it has to be
this quiet energy andexpectation that of course, in
my case, of course, you're gonnawant to sit there and have your
picture taken and wear thisHalloween costume and smile
because you're gonna get turkeyand you love turkey and we're
(24:33):
gonna pet you and you're gonnafeel, because we all are like
you're looking how wonderful youare and the cat feels that you
know and so measure.
It's like adding my energy ofboth holding that space, I guess
of energy with the cat, thatyou're gonna enjoy this and you
know because I don't forceanimals to do something I don't
want to do.
We choose them for thetournament.
I don't put a cat up there,that's not happy.
(24:54):
I wouldn't take long.
Why do that?
So we don't.
But the ones that love it loveit and they love, they can feel
all the.
However, one around them islike, wow, that's really cool.
And then he feels even better.
Does that make sense?
and then he sets in a taller andeven prouder, and you know so.
No negative people on set thesame, yeah, is that why a horse
(25:17):
can be very comfortable with you, but somebody else walks up,
and that that energy directedout of you.
Know you're gonna do this andgrab them.
You know right right so peopleneed to practice this place that
you're talking about, of being,I guess, regulated and calm and
meditative.
(25:37):
And put your phone away,because the minute your phone
does something.
You've lost your right, you'velost your breathing and
concentration.
That's when the horse goes.
I think I'll step on your footor whatever.
Right, right, you know, becauseyou're not present, because we
want to be present.
And same thing with children orpeople were talking to.
So it's a good life lesson, notjust for horses.
(25:59):
It sounds like absolutely and Ibelieve.
I.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
I came at this because I went and study human
psychology, because I felt likethat might be at my age, might
be the direction I need to go,that maybe horses we're not
going to be my final destinationyeah, right, but in that,
everything that I do andeverything that I teach people
(26:25):
has something for the horse tolearn, and the person and every
technique, if you want to callthat or thing that I show
somebody, there's a place that,okay, you're gonna practice your
breathing, you're gonnapractice your meditation, and
the horse is going to practicethis other thing.
(26:45):
So everything I developed hassomething for the horse and
something for the human and the.
The goal is to bring us allcloser to communion through
those simple exercises ortechniques that I use and after
you master them, it's not likeyou have to go out and do this
(27:09):
long drawn-out thing with everysingle animal you come to.
If you practice these things asa human and you get good at
these energy frequencies and theenergy, knowing and awareness
place, you would not have to.
You can walk up to any horse,any cat, any and it's different
any person, and I wanted toexpand this kind of in behind
(27:35):
the scenes.
It's.
It's an attempt, maybe to getpeople to be more empathetic and
to have more awareness of howthey're dealing with other
humans.
So this is not just a horseprogram or a horse thing over
here that I'm doing sacredspaces is not called some kind
(27:56):
of horse training.
It's an all-encompassing kindof a thing where, as we change,
everything in our life begins tochange, to align with the
energy, and we're starting to beable to choose how we want to
feel in a moment.
And if we don't feel that way,we have a mechanism or method to
(28:16):
get back to ourselves, intowhat we want to be experiencing.
So that's, that's kind of Iknow it's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
You say that we need to be in this world in a more
meaningful way, and I thinkthat's what you're talking about
presenting ourselves in a moremeaningful way, where we can be,
you know, be helpful.
I think it was Victor Frankelwho the meaning of, or man's
search for meaning in his book,the.
The idea part of it was our jobis to end suffering whenever
(28:51):
possible.
But if we can't end it, don'tadd to it.
And it seems to me that there'sso much anger and separation
and negativity and like grabbingat people in traffic or being
mean to a clerk.
Wherever we could, we all couldwork so much more on having
more empathy, kindness, beingpresent, and and you know it's
(29:15):
not about us they might just behaving a bad day.
Let's not make their day worse.
So right about being in thisworld in a more meaningful way
is a wonderful message, becausethen everything benefits from it
, and ourselves included,because we don't want to run
around hurting people.
That makes us feel terrible.
So you also, we talked about oryou talk about.
(29:42):
I just want to quote.
Although I would like thesacred space principles to reach
a broader audience, Iunderstand that not everyone is
ready, and that's so sad in away, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
and if you could expand that force, please.
I think, especially within thehorse world, it's almost in the
mass consciousness maybe ofhorse people that we have to
deal with these animals in aparticular way, that we have to
show dominance, that we have todo these particular training
(30:15):
this way and that way.
And and I, as I've gone around,I know there's some people that
they say I want a different wayand they can't really do it.
Or you see that they're notreally invested in it because
maybe it's too much work or theydon't think they can do it, and
so they, they fall by thewayside and then go back to that
(30:36):
.
What's known is okay, we canget this horse to do this thing
through dominance.
Yes, that will always work.
But what if you didn't have to?
But what if that required thatyou had to work a whole lot on
yourself to get there?
And that's, I think, when I saynot everybody's ready, because
(30:59):
when they realize, even thoughthe things that I show you are
simplified and you can get tothese, they take work.
They're simple but they're noteasy and it takes some practice
and a lot of people were so usedto this idea of instant results
.
I want to see that trainer comeout and instantly change that
horse and that's what we've beenshown.
(31:21):
And so that's again in our massconsciousness that it's going
to happen overnight.
And as I study the brain andthe people's emotions and
horses' emotions, we don't justget over something that fast.
There's more time and there hasto be consistency in our
environment to support thechange we're trying to make.
(31:45):
And this is true with thehorses.
If you decide, oh, I want to benice sometimes, and then you put
the horse back with otherpeople that are abusing it or
that go back to dominant stuffwith it, it's going to be really
confusing for that horse.
So I always think too in thisplace are we ready, is our
(32:06):
environment ready, to support achange to a different way of
doing things?
And I think this is one of mybiggest, I would say I don't
want to use a word frustrationsof going.
Ok, humans they're just so setin their ways sometimes and they
don't take two new ideas veryreadily.
(32:29):
Sometimes there's a small groupthat usually jump on right away
, but then there's the peoplegoing well, yeah, I don't know,
I got to stick to my old way ofdoing things, and they refer it
back.
So, yeah, that's a bigchallenge, I think for all of us
, because we think everything'ssupposed to be easy and instant
(32:54):
and the things that are reallymeaningful take attention and
time and dedication.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Oh, absolutely true.
When I first started thisjourney before I got my three
little Morgan Phillies fromMontana I'm over in Wisconsin,
so it was a journey.
I own other podcasts on MontanaMorgans, but anyway, I had lost
my hard horse.
We all have our hard horse andhe died of old age and so I had
(33:21):
sought out this other, anotherhorse, during the pandemic, when
horses were hard to come by andvery, very expensive, and I
found this mare that I could getin a range, a price range, but
she had a lot of anxiety andissues and stuff that she
brought to the table and I wasfollowing, learning some of
these new things.
But I was going way too fast,like, well, this will work, this
(33:44):
will work, I'll skip that, thiswill work.
And I made a lot of mistakes onnot really listening to her
anxiety and understanding.
I think, well, I can swing aleg over you and I can do this
and I can, you know, I can climbon you from the fence, so that
means you're ready for this nextstep.
And she wasn't at all in theunderlying anxiety and I wasn't.
I thought I was only halfhearing what was being taught,
(34:06):
half understanding what you'retalking about, because I was in
a hurry.
My horse died.
I want to ride a horse.
No, no, no, no, no right.
And I got.
She was riding with Bearback,with a halter in the paddock,
just to you know, because wealways start out just going to
start with the.
She was broke, but it was likerestarting right and either she
was in pain or the anxiety levelthreshold was too high.
(34:28):
Whatever she bucked andeverything, and not being a kid
anymore, I landed on my pelvis,broke it in three places.
You know, had a helmet, so Ididn't get a bad concussion, but
it just shook me to the corebecause I never blamed the horse
, I blamed myself and I had togo back and go.
Wait a minute, you're, you'renot really doing what you think
you're doing.
You know you think you're doingthis, this understanding this,
(34:52):
this connection, da da da.
Obviously you're not listening.
She said no, you're not goingto ride me right now.
She said it is the only way shecould, you know.
So it was a.
It had to really go back,because even it takes a lot
longer, like you said.
So, with the new Montana mayors, completely different mindset
about how I was going toapproach them and it is
(35:13):
transformative because I'mfinally taking the time,
whatever time they need.
The anxious horse took seven,eight months to get to where we
could, you know, get a relaxedabout picking up her feet or
simple things like that wherethe trust got built.
And it's amazing because bygoing slow I'm going fast,
(35:35):
exactly what you talk about.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
So right, and once you understand the frequencies
and what you're broadcasting andhow you can I hate to use the
word speed up that process, butyou can get through that anxiety
and stuff in a very shortamount of time.
But part of what this is is theability to identify trauma and
(35:58):
in the horse and know what to dowhen you see that.
And again, a lot of theslowness in the process is
having to go back and addressthe trauma places and have the
horse release those and thattakes more time than if you
started out all good at thebeginning.
(36:19):
But this is what people are notunderstanding.
Sometimes they go well, wewould like to do your process
but it takes too long and I'msaying no, it actually goes much
faster.
But the reason it looks like ittakes a long time is because
when I go do a clinic or agathering and these horses come
in, they have such volumes oftrauma stored in their body that
(36:40):
we need to have a mechanism tohelp to let that go before we
can communicate anything to thathorse or teach them anything
right Right.
Because, when they're anxious,no, because they've got a
distraction there.
My anxiety is making me shutdown my brain and I can't focus
on what you're saying, and sothat's what I've been developing
(37:03):
over the years is thesetechniques or ways that we can
ask the horse certain questionsand have them start to release
their trauma in a faster way?
And again, our breathing itgoes back to our ability to hold
the breath, excuse me, thebreath that we are doing, that
we hold a safe space for them torelease their trauma, and this
(37:27):
is super important, and so a lotof times I can go in.
I've narrowed it down to askingthe horses for main questions
when I come in with them, andit's like the four agreements,
it's like four questions.
I'm going to ask this horse andwhen I come into that space I'm
going to ask him those andthey're going to tell me where
(37:48):
their trauma stored and they'regoing to show me all of the
stuff and I'm going to show themhow to align their body and
connect their mind to their body, because a lot of horses are
not connected through their bodyto their mind and, especially
if they get stressed, theydisconnect their mind from their
body and then they becomereactive.
So I'm going to go through withsome questions that I asked the
(38:11):
horse before I get on, and it'sgoing to show me where the
trauma is, if they need anythingto release.
And if you go through thosequestions on a regular basis you
can streamline that connectionand trust issue almost
instantaneously.
I mean, I've seen go in and askthese horse questions and
(38:34):
they're like I'm with you, I'mon you, I'm good, and so this
has been my goal over the lastfew years is just first of all,
how do I identify trauma in ahorse?
Do I know what to do with that?
Can I identify what's going onand what am I going to do with
(38:55):
that?
And so that was what I wasreally glad that I did is study
psychology, and actually mydissertation was on trauma, and
so I wasn't interested in goingin that field with humans at all
.
But I realize now in retrospectthat that was part of my
(39:16):
preparation, for what I'm doingnow is that I had to understand
trauma.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Well, doesn't trauma manifest itself the same way in
most mammals?
Absolutely, because we workedwith young people especially
who've had adverse childhoodexperiences and trauma, the
right horse could be found to beso healing for them to be able
to learn to even identifyemotions.
(39:40):
So that's kind of a differentpurpose.
But it's just the opposite whenwe're helping the horse with
their trauma and I find thatbecause we're animals as well-
we're mammals.
So the things work and I findthat the ways of regulating
ourselves affect all the animalsthat are around.
I have a flock of sheep there'slike six or seven, so a small
(40:02):
little flock and I adore thembeyond words.
It's not even I just love themso much, but once I started
learning about how horses handletrauma, I could see the same
signals in sheep, becausethey're animals that get chased.
Sheep do not have as much.
And so I found ways ofregulating my although I got
(40:23):
along with my sheep really well,I could go into a strange flock
and because I can stay in theplace you talk about, the sheep
will approach me where theynormally would never do.
That, because human beings canbe.
You know you're pushing usaround.
Whatever they're.
More they're not tame like mineand it blew me away that that
it works, that you can do thatwith other mammals, and I love
(40:45):
that, and so I'm going to keeppracticing that so that I can be
better with with all theanimals I get to meet, because
certainly works with children.
I mean, why would a childapproach you if you're giving
off that horrible energy?
If I'm going to grab you andsmother you?
or I don't like to stay awayfrom me.
They're pretty intuitive, theyknow.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Absolutely Wow, absolutely Cool, okay I want to,
sorry, go ahead.
Oh, I was just going to add onto that.
My dissertation was all aboutadverse childhood experiences
and its effect on our health andadulthood, and you could look
at that in terms of horses.
They have adverse fullexperiences yes, that affect
(41:27):
them throughout their life andaffect their mental and physical
health.
So that's really my where I'mcoming from.
A lot of what I do is comingfrom that place.
And how can we build inresiliency?
How can we change thattrajectory?
And I find it easier in horsesthan it is in people.
(41:48):
I just want to add that.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
No, this is true.
Well gosh, this has been soinformative, and we're going to
talk about how people can get intouch with you and come to your
workshops, find your website,which is a wealth of information
.
We'll have all this on the shownotes as well.
Where to get your book?
I recommend it to everybody.
But now we're to the part ofthe show where we do.
(42:12):
I sent you some questions, butI got to hold these up because
we call this the cookie break orsnack break.
So there's chocolate chipcookies here.
It's from my crew.
They won't work, otherwise, ifyou were here, we'd be feeding
you, okay, okay.
Well, this is Wisconsin.
That's what we do.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
I noticed that.
That's why I love going to themidwest.
I don't know what you do.
Are you considered Midwest?
Oh, yes, I always get good food.
It's lovely.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Yeah, and heavy rich, good butter food.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yeah, Good, good like comfort food.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Exactly what's cold here, just like there in the
mountains it's cold, so it'ssupposed to snow today.
But we're going to.
We're going to.
I sent five questions and Iborrowed those questions from
Tim Ferriss's book a tribe ofmentors, because they're
wonderful questions to askduring an interview and so you
got to pick out from a list of20 questions that you'd like to
ask.
So we're just going to jumpright into those, okay.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
All right.
Well, I guess I didn't.
Did I get that?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
You did, you sent it.
You were like so efficientbecause you sent it right away.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Did I.
Oh well then, tell me which oneI asked.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
All right.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
So the first question is what is the most valuable
thing that you put your timeinto that has changed the course
of your life?
Speaker 2 (43:34):
It was understanding myself and who I am inside and
out, and really I think, throughall the struggles that we go
through, but to have thatawareness of wow, I just got
triggered by that, or this iswhat I'm feeling in this moment,
(43:56):
and have the ability to thinkabout it and change it if I want
to.
It's been one of the biggestthings and I do that all through
the breathing and, yeah, soimagine that we've been
breathing our whole lives andbreathing in the proper way, and
the full body has changed mylife immensely and that of
(44:22):
horses and animals that Iinteract with.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Well, we all breathe, so it's something we can work
on.
I mean, what is simple to startwith, right, it's kind of you
know that's the whole thing.
Okay, do you have a mentor andwhat did that person or what did
that person do that helped you,I'm sorry.
Do you have a mentor and whatdid that person help you
discover about yourself?
Speaker 2 (44:50):
When I talked about earlier my mentors.
I had many, and really mygreatest mentors were my horses,
because they taught meeverything I need to know and
the same thing with being out innature.
Those were all my mentors andif I had a question I could ask
(45:11):
them, and it's interesting thatwe I did have some human mentors
that showed me things like howto ride, but really the
important life lessons came frommy horses.
And I was writing I justfinished a handbook on my
(45:35):
breathing and I'm putting ittogether and somebody asked well
, where are your references?
Which scientific study are youquoting and why are you doing
this?
Well, I think in my referencelist it's going to be the names
of the horses that influenced me, because they taught me that
and it was that they gave me thevalidation, not that I have to
(45:58):
be validated by someone else dida study and they said the same
thing.
Oh, then you're validated.
How about?
I practice this thing and itworked on my horse and he
validated it for me.
Sure.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
I love that.
I think we all have horses likethat in our lives.
What inspires and motivates youto do what you do and what is
your true purpose in the world?
Speaker 2 (46:25):
What inspires me to do what I do is the horses, and
a lot of times people think,well, you're probably pretty
extroverted if you're out inthis world, but I'm super
introverted and I'd be happy tobe on my ranch doing just horses
.
So I'm inspired to go outbecause I'm doing it on behalf
(46:45):
of the horses.
I can put my pants on and I mybig girl pants on and take a lot
of criticism or a lot ofnegative feedback because I go,
well, yeah, but I'm doing thisfor the horses and their best
interest at heart, and I cantake a lot for the team and I
will go out there and, to thebest of my ability, help people
(47:10):
learn what the horses are tryingto teach us, and so they are my
inspiration.
There was a second part to thatquestion, was there?
Speaker 1 (47:20):
I think you answered too what is your true purpose in
the world?
Which is make things better.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
And I think that's it .
And it's interesting thatthroughout my life, till I was
about 60, I had no idea what mypurpose was and I struggled with
that a lot, and maybe somewomen go through their lives and
you've done things for otherpeople and you end up at a place
where you go.
Well, what was my purpose?
(47:46):
And really it is just to go outand speak what the horses want
me to say on their behalf, andthat is my purpose, because in
the process, I believe they'retrying to help us as humans to
evolve.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Oh, I love that.
That's a really great thought.
I mean, that's really beautifulthinking about that, because
they're so giving and so horsesand all of us are lucky that you
are doing this and we'regrateful for you.
Appreciate that, thank you.
That was the luckiest thingthat ever happened to you.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
The luckiest thing and you know that's an
interesting question Would it beabout me or would it be about
beyond me?
So the luckiest thing for mewas when Warwick Schillers found
my book on his kitchen tableand then started speaking about
it.
That's wonderful, but reallythe luckiest thing was that
(48:48):
people would listen then andthen I could have a voice for
the horses.
That was the luckiest day andit opened up my heart because
I'm thinking, wow, I had so manythings to say on their behalf
and I wasn't being heard beforehe opened up those doors, and so
I'll be internally grateful.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
That's funny that you mentioned Warwick Schillers,
because that was the first horseperson in this vein that I
started following and I wouldlisten to his podcast and
learned about all of youwonderful people.
He has a great podcast and thereason I have a podcast is I
really want to be on Warwick'spodcast to tell him how my whole
view of training animals andanimal actors and horse, how
(49:32):
everything has changed andshifted based on what I started
learning through him and nowothers, and I thought, well,
warwick doesn't know me, he'snot going to have me on his
podcast, I'll just start my ownpodcast.
See, that's exactly how ithappened, because I wanted to
get this message out and shareit with others and by having
people like you, hopefully wecan keep growing and get this
(49:52):
message out.
And if one horse's life isbetter for it, one dog, one cat
and, in my heart, one child, Ithink we're doing something good
.
So, again, grateful that you'rehere and grateful for your
message and that's funny how itwork, if you're listening we
both say thank you.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
I know, yeah, I mean, I'll always be so indebted and
thankful and grateful for theopportunities Probably not just
for me but for all of the horsesand all of the people that get
to go on that and speak theirtruth and open up people's minds
and hearts to a different way,exactly.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Wow, there you go.
That's our testimony forWarwick.
He won't mind.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
No, probably you'll be okay.
Speaker 1 (50:40):
You have to send him a note.
Hey, we talked about you.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
He probably can hear there you go.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
There you go, all right.
Last question what did you wantto be as a child and how close
did you get to that dream?
Speaker 2 (50:56):
Well, I actually wanted to be a jockey.
Well, the first thing I wantedto be a cowboy, or cowboy, oh me
too, cowboy.
Yeah, and you know, you gothrough your life and they tell
you, no, those boxes aren'tavailable to you.
So here's your boxes you canchoose from.
It cracks me up that I'mfinally living, actually a dream
(51:20):
I couldn't have even haveimagined as a child, like there
was not even a box that saidsomeday you'll be working
energetically with horses and doyou want to check that box?
Oh, yes, please.
No, that wasn't even in myconsciousness anywhere.
But to be able to spend everyday with horses or speaking with
(51:40):
horse people or doing somethingin that thing, oh my God, what
more can you ask for in yourlife?
That's as close to my dreamthat I can get.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
That's wonderful and, like I said, we're glad to have
you.
Would you like to share with usnow how we can find you?
We're going to have these notesthere too, but we may as well
say them and what this podcast?
You know they live forever, sowe could put a current event but
it may pass by the time.
But you do hold, you do hold.
Did you call them that?
(52:12):
Not workshops, but you had aword gathered.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
I'm getting gatherings.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Yeah, yeah, and you are coming back to Wisconsin.
You were in Madison last year,right?
So are you coming back toWisconsin?
Speaker 2 (52:23):
I believe I'll probably be back.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
Yeah, I'm definitely going to make that trip to come
see you.
Oh good, so please just goahead and share, like how we
find you and where we can findyour book and all this, this
good stuff.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
Okay and you can find me.
It's the easiest to go to DrSusan Faye FAY.
It's D R S U S A N FAYcom andthat's my website, and there'll
be ways you can contact methrough my website.
You can email me on there.
You could set up a session ifyou're interested in doing that.
(53:00):
Okay, so let up a session.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
I'm sorry, let's talk about your sessions.
Go ahead.
Yeah, you tell us about yoursessions, please.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Oh, I do some virtual sessions online and it's funny
because it works sometimesbetter than in person.
I don't know what it is aboutthe energy, or maybe it's
singularly focused, but I canwalk through some of the four
questions.
I asked the horse.
We can address some traumaissues.
We can address communion,connection, all sorts of
(53:32):
different things, even writing,if you wanted to, on the virtual
session, and they're usuallyabout an hour.
If it's a lot of trauma stuff,I may break it up into doing
shorter session, maybe two halfhours or something like that,
and they're really focusedspecifically on the person.
The horse team you know yourrelationship with your horse,
(53:54):
okay, and really teaching yousome of these principles is
start with the breathing, ofcourse, and then I'll teach you
about how to create differentenergy frequencies and we'll
play with your horse on thoseyou know and see which one is
going to help.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
That's amazing, because now you've opened it up
to people that you know, forwhatever reason, can't get to a
gathering, or you know if it'sthe middle of winter and you
can't be, you know, or they livein another part of the world.
I mean, how wonderful is thattechnology, how cool is that.
It is cool, so that's on yourwebsite if people want more
information about that.
And I should mention, on yourwebsite there's a lot of videos
(54:27):
where you're talking about allkinds of behaviors and things
and things we can do, we canlearn from you.
So you've got really a nicewebsite with lots of information
that's out there for people.
So appreciate that.
And then I see you have a.
There's a Facebook group ifpeople want to follow that, and
so that's all great Right.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
And you can go to my Facebook group.
It's sacred spaces, forwardslash, sacred wisdom.
And if you go on there, justanswer all the questions they
ask in the administrative orelse the administrator won't let
you on if you don't agree tosome of the I just I made sure
to join it today because I wantto, I want to like, keep
following this, so I'm sureyou'll, I'm sure you'll let me
(55:09):
in.
Oh, I pretty sure I think I'llgo look and make sure I'll
behave myself, I promise.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
Okay, cool, this has been really, really wonderful.
All it makes me want to do isgo out and start talking to my
horses, like right now, andpractice the things I've been
learning and reading and try toget this word out.
So again, I recommend oh, wherecan we find your book?
Where can we find your book?
Speaker 2 (55:32):
You can find it link to it is on my website, but you
can also go to Amazon and justlook it up there.
And it's available in the printversion, and then I have a
audio book also.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
Trying to get it in focus there.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
That looks good, there you go.
Speaker 1 (55:51):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
I'm going to try to get the audio.
Speaker 1 (55:53):
Okay, before we go, because I wanted to ask because
Morgan horses.
Okay, just tell us about yourMorgan horses.
Do you still have a Morganhorse by any chance, or?
Speaker 2 (56:04):
I still have four of my original horses that I bred.
So I two, well three of threeof them are morgans.
And then I've got a friend'shorse here, that's a Azteca,
that stays on my ranch.
But really sad news, I justlast month lost my tank horse
(56:25):
that I write about in my book.
So he just passed and he wasreally the inspiration for
everything I do.
He was so humble and he was sowonderful.
You know about everything hecould do and I have to say that
about all of my horses.
When you do this kind ofawareness of yourself that every
(56:47):
relationship it's different butit's the same, it's the ease of
the have, the relationship.
You know, once we learn theserelationships principles with
horses.
So you know, when I think ofpeople say a hard horse, and I
think I wrote about that as aquote at the end, about your
hard horse, it's like all of mywork.
They were special in their ownunique ways but they were all
(57:09):
hard horses.
Speaker 1 (57:10):
Oh, exactly, it's like children, you don't love
one more than the other, youlove them differently, you know.
I get that?
Yeah, and I think that I had toput an old mare down.
She was 29.
So she didn't.
She was, her cushions hadgotten to the point where it was
time and I think they make room, and it was like she was ready
to go and she's just made roomfor whatever else needed to be
(57:33):
in that space.
That makes any sense at all.
It's always hard to say why, butthey all mean something.
They all came.
You know she was a rescue marefrom Forevermoregans out of New
York and we had her 12, 12, 13years in her retirement.
She had a very happy life, butI get that.
So just a shout out to all theMorgan people out there.
We love all the other breedstoo, but we're just going to,
(57:54):
we're just going to, you know,sisters, morgans, exactly,
exactly, all right.
Well, this has been such apleasure and such a joy and
we're so grateful that you tookthe time for us today.
I want everyone to go get herbook, listen to her website,
sign up for a session, join mein Wisconsin when I go, or you
find out where she's going to beand go see her in person,
(58:15):
because I think you and yourhorse will benefit from it.
So thank you, dr Susan Faye,for coming.
We really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (58:22):
Well, thank you so much for having me.
It was great.
Hi, I'm Barbara O'Brien.
I'm an animal trainer andphotographer, and I'd like to
welcome you to the empathetictrainer.
Welcome, dr Susan Fay, to theEpithetic Trainer Podcast.
We are so glad to have you heretoday.
We appreciate you taking thetime to join us.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Well, I am, as always , honored if somebody reaches
out to me, and I'm really happyto get the word out to anybody
that wants to listen.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Well, that's great because we have we have, you
know, limited time, but we havea lot to cover, because you've
got some wonderful informationto share with horse owners,
which I believe applies to allthe animals in our lives and it
applies also to the people.
So I think this is a goodmessage that we really want to
spread to anyone that, like yousay, is ready to receive it,
(01:03):
because that's the whole thingwe're going to talk about.
But let me do let me do theformal introduction, so that
people know, okay, what we'redoing here?
Okay.
Dr Susan Fay is aninternationally known speaker,
clinician, equine consultant andauthor of sacred spaces
communion with the horse throughscience and spirit.
She has an educationalbackground in psychology and
(01:25):
environmental science butbelieves she has learned the
most valuable life lessons fromher horses.
I want to say that almost anyany true lover of horses is
going to agree with you on thatpoint, that we learned
everything, the most importantthings, from horses.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
So yes, I have to agree through there.
Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Okay, well, what I like to start off with is kind
of like how did this happen?
Let me?
What I mean happen is how didyou fall in love with horses and
why are horses your life?
And we have to talk aboutMorgan horses because I have six
of them and so, sorry, breedbias here.
But we have to talk a littlebit about Morgan's before we're
(02:08):
done.
I just put a thing on Facebook.
I asked I had a.
I was wondering is it geneticor where does it come from that?
Some of us are just bornknowing we have to be around
horses.
Some of us don't even get thatopportunity, but we are born
knowing it.
I didn't get to be around themtill I was 12 or 13, when I was
(02:30):
old enough to work for mylessons, but like my parents
didn't have them, you know theyweren't horse people.
Did that happen to you?
Are you exposed later?
Were you exposed early?
Were you just?
How do people are reborn thisway?
This is just a question I haveand I'd like to hear about how
you started out with horses.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I believe we're born this way because I believe my
first conscious thought as aninfant wasn't horses.
I had to speak in order to askquestions about horses but, like
you, my parents did not haveanything to do with them and
nobody in my family did so I wasthe oddball and I was just
(03:10):
obsessed.
That's all I thought about formy entire childhood.
And then I probably bugged myfather enough that at nine years
old, when we moved up to themountains, we could have a horse
and that's what I got.
So that shut me up, at leastfor them.
You know, I could just go outand spend time with my horse and
be perfectly happy.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I understand that.
I think horses and children areso good for each other.
They benefit, of course, boysand girls equally, but
especially young girls, I think.
Learn to have a voice withhorses, and we're going to talk
more about that.
So you were a horse kid, andthen what happened?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Well then of course your parents tell you you have
to have a real job and you haveto have a real career because
there's no money in horses.
And I believe that was more trueback in the 60s, when I was
growing up in the 70s, that youdidn't see a whole lot of women,
especially out there doinganything at quite in a big way,
(04:15):
other than a few trainers outthere.
But things were so differentthen and really I don't believe
I would have been able to make aliving in the horse world, or
it would have been reallydifficult back then.
So of course then I went intothe other love, which was being
outdoors and all that.
So I decided to studyenvironmental science and so
(04:38):
that kept me connected to natureand outside and but it also put
me more in the human world thanI would have liked, in all the
politics and everything thatcomes with participating in that
type of profession.
So I really missed the horses.
(05:00):
I always kept them on the side.
I'd have horses and I do ridingwhenever I could, but I didn't
really get a chance to exploreit in a big way until I got
married and we moved to a ranchand then I could have my mork
and horses and start doing alittle bit of a breeding program
and riding and all of that.
(05:22):
So that was my progression.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Oh, sure, sure, I totally get that.
I eloped with my husband so Icould have a horse.
So I was lucky to get my firsthorse, I mean when I was 19, so
still same husband, still morkand horses, so pretty blessed
there.
But I get that it was like youhad to have them in your life
and you had to make it worksomehow and by having the great
(05:48):
relationship, I hope, and yougot to do that when you were,
you know, younger as opposed toa lot of women have to give up
and wait and wait and wait untilthey decided it's too late
which I think it's never toolate or they get into them,
which is great.
But I wish everybody who wantedto, who was born with it, had
the opportunity.
I wish we could make that.
(06:08):
So, absolutely okay.
So you went to school forenvironmental studies.
What I found so interesting,let's let's talk about your book
, because this was, um, everyonecan.
Can you see if I get it infocus here?
Uh, I don't know how to make itfocus on the camera, but it's
called sacred spaces communionwith the horse through science
(06:30):
and spirit, and this was areally deep and good and
interesting read because ittalks so much about how we can
have the a brain scienceconnection, almost, and a heart
science connection, becausethere's a lot of people who are
(06:51):
kind of like, oh, that's allwhat.
Uh, warwick shiller, one of ourfavorite horse people, calls
you know who, and it's like thisis all supernatural, and but
there, and he also agrees withyou that there's definitely a
science behind all of this.
Now, how did you stumble oops,sorry, how did you come across
like mixing what you feltintuitively, what we felt, with
(07:14):
fact, because some people don'tbelieve in just how things feel.
They want hard, hard facts.
How did you come across that?
What happened, that thathappened?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
it was interesting because on the ranch and I was
interacting with the horses, itwas really natural and I just
felt like I spoke to them andthey did the things.
And, um, when it came time andI, I was divorced and I thought
you know what, in order to bringthis to the world in a bigger
(07:45):
way, I feel like it's veryimportant to bring the science
into it so that it doesn't justget put into a particular box
and then perhaps people don'tlook in that box necessarily
because it says woo or somethinglike that on it and people go,
oh, I don't want that box.
And I thought, you know, weneed to really look at what is
(08:07):
really happening inside of usand why is this happening.
And I I was always so curiousabout that, even since I was
about 12 years old, studying thebrain and and these kind of
things about optimizing ourbrain function, and that's not
usually a 12 year old deal, butfor me it was fascinating.
(08:27):
And as I began to go out thereand interact more in the horse
world, I realized that peoplewere struggling with things that
could be fixed very simply byunderstanding your brain and
your body and how you're reallycommunicating energetically.
So that really stuck me in tothis place where I've got to
(08:51):
know more.
And can I teach that tosomebody?
Can I teach these same thingsto someone else?
And when I wrote Sacred Spaces,the book, I was introducing
people to this idea that therewas something scientific to the
woo, that we could actually useenergy or have energy genic
(09:14):
awareness and actually findbetter communication and
connection to communion with ouranimals.
So that was really reallyimportant to me, especially, I
think, as an older woman goingout there and trying to have
your voice heard, it seemed realimportant to have the science
(09:36):
and to go.
You know, if I was at somegathering or and somebody
confronted me, I was like Idon't believe that it doesn't
work.
I could say exactly what I didinternally to create the thing
that presented in the horse.
So okay.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Well, let's talk about that.
When you say something youcreated internally to present to
the horse, what does that meanfor someone that does not have
any background or understand?
You know, understanding thatlike you could break it down
yeah to the simplistic right andreally what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
We are energetic beings, just like horses.
That's why we can do thisparticular thing.
But when we have a thought,when we have an emotion, we
create a particular energysignature.
It's like a frequency in ourbody that aligns with our
thought, in our emotion, andthen it broadcasts that
(10:29):
information out into the spacearound us, a little bit like a
radio station.
If you dial to particularstation, you know what you're
going to get and that station isa frequency 97.3 FM.
You go to that frequency andyou always get that station and
our bodies work the same way.
(10:50):
We can create differentfrequencies with an
understanding of where am Igoing and what am I now
broadcasting.
So, in a kind of a simplisticway again, every thought, every
emotion aligns to create ourradio station that we're on at
that moment, and having anawareness of what's going on
(11:13):
gives us a lot more power in ourlives to choose what station
we're playing.
So a lot of times I've noticedpeople are not aware of their
internal life, what's going oninside their body, and so they
may switch channels all the timeand, if you think about it, in
between each radio station is awhole lot of static, and so
(11:37):
that's what the horses arehearing from people that are not
aligned with their thoughts andtheir emotions, and they just
go interact with the horse andmaybe they're on a station for a
while and then they getdistracted and they go to some
other station and in betweenthere's a lot of static and the
horse is trying to understandwhat they're saying but they
can't, because it's a badconnection or an inconsistent
(11:58):
connection.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Sorry, is it a form of being incongruent?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I've gotten in a fight with my husband or
something right, and then I gooutside and I'm, you know,
whatever, right, we haven'tresolved it till later and I go,
I'm going to go be with myhorses now and I go out to my.
I would go out to my horse andthen go like I'm fine, you know,
but I wasn't fine.
And then that's confusing forthe horse, correct?
(12:25):
Because, like they say, leaveit, leave it behind.
You know, you out to the barn,you leave it behind, you go.
Wouldn't it have been better ifI went out and said, well, I
just got into a fight and I'mstill kind of crabby about it.
I'm with you now and you knowI'm.
I'm sure we're going to workthis out and whatever.
But this is how I'm feeling andI can sort of identify the
station, like you're saying thatI'm on and then be like just
(12:49):
being aware, instead of tryingto cover up or push down or be
different.
Is that what you're kind ofsaying?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Absolutely, you coined it perfectly.
Yes, and you know, like you say, horses know when we're not
congruent and we can saysomething on the outside and not
be meaning that on the inside,our body speaking a different
language, then the same thingworks for fear.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Then, because they'd say like, don't show me, you're
afraid.
You know this was the don'tshow me, you're afraid, because
then they're going to what areyou afraid of and you know?
Or because horses don't realizewe're afraid of them.
You're right, exactly so.
But if you can acknowledge,because I'm just learning, this
is all new for me I'm, you know,the last couple of years, I
(13:31):
don't know if you know, but I'vebeen an animal actor trainer
since the 80s, right, so I workwith animal actors, but I've
never given my horses theconsideration that I've given
the dogs, the cats, the chickens, you know, the things that I'm
working with in, likeunderstanding their brains and
how they think and whatever.
I haven't taken the time becausethey don't work as much you
know they're not modeling asmuch as the dog, and it has been
(13:53):
mind blowing to discover peoplelike you and Carrie Lake and
Mary Corning Luckily we had themon the podcast as well, and it
was wonderful and people likework Schiller and others who are
really helping change how weview our relationships with
horses, which I think is goingto be so much better for horses,
and so thank you for your partin that.
(14:17):
So what is your suggestion then?
Like, for instance, someone, isI run into this with this
Morgan horse.
I got like a three Morganhorses from out west.
They hadn't been handled awhole lot.
They were treated well but justnot handled all young and the
four year old that came wasreally defensive and anxious
when she first arrived, whichcaused me to be afraid of her,
(14:39):
and I had to have a whole mindshift and some help with what
you're talking about telling her.
I'm afraid, you know, and itreally changed things because I
visualized differently how Iwant the relationship to be and
gave her all the time she neededto feel safe, with no agenda,
and now now she's discoveredthat scratching her butt is like
(15:01):
the most favorite thing in thewhole world and so she'll tell
me please do that, and we havethis, we can do things.
You say something about howgoing slower is going faster.
You have it phrased reallybeautifully, but I'm talking too
much.
I need to get back to you, butI'm so much.
Your book helps so much with metelling her I feel and then
(15:23):
working through the feelingswith her.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It does.
And I'm really about us havingawareness again of where is our
body, where is our mind, and canwe get incongruence and can we
actually choose how we want tofeel in the moment.
So it's okay to go in if you'rea little bit upset and tell
your horse, yes, here's why I'mat today.
But then what can you do toswitch that Exactly and that's
(15:50):
what I focus on is like we'regoing to choose which radio
station we're going to play ateach moment to support the horse
and what they're going through,or support our interaction.
And so again, I have to getinto a little bit more
explanation about this, becausein this energy field, a lot of
people are what they're doing issending a horse and energy
(16:14):
they're they go.
Oh, I think that horse isafraid I'm going to send him
relaxation.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
No, we don't need to do any of that we are a model
for our horses.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I keep all of my energy right next to my body and
I switch my channel.
And just remember back in theanalogy of the radio station.
I don't have to go blast thatout to the horse, but if that
horse were interested in theradio station that I'm playing,
they will come and come closeror they will come and go.
(16:48):
Oh, I'm going to listen to thatone and just like music when it
plays.
You play music and then all ofa sudden you're captured by the
music and you're in the feel ofthat music.
Same way that this energy isworking.
I just have to switch myself.
I don't have to worry about it.
I just look at the horse, go,wow, I think you're struggling
(17:08):
and you're a little anxious.
Let me model for you what theopposite of that is Safe,
comfortable, relaxed, grounded,and that's all I have to do.
And then the horse will copy orentrain to that feeling that
I've just modeled.
(17:30):
It's a whole different conceptof what a lot of people are
doing with energy, and what isreally good is that we want to
keep our energy within ourselves.
I don't send my energy out.
I don't take any on.
Therefore, I'm a closed systemin terms of my energy field and
I don't get depleted, and it'slike I said, it's a very
(17:57):
different concept than a lot ofpeople are teaching out there.
As far as the energy work goes,I don't even call it energy
work because I'm not working.
I am just aware so I'm changingit to, instead of energy work,
energy awareness that I'm goingto know what to do to support
that animal.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Okay.
So for someone who's new tothis, then and it's this energy
awareness.
So how do we?
I mean some people that came tothem and they are just natural
with the horses and like theyget it and they can't even
explain it, like you're good atexplaining it.
They've been there doing it,but you're really good at
explaining it.
You know, besides having thescience behind it, how does the
(18:36):
average person who doesn't know,like you know, for instance, me
, I'm going to go out there.
What would you recommend?
I'd like to learn.
How do I learn how to do this?
Because this is fascinating,you know.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Right and this is part of my program that the
sacred spaces book was where I'mworking from.
It's the overview of what I'mdoing.
But now when I go and do achange of mind from clinics to
gatherings to give it adifferent feel, I teach the
people the ways that wecommunicate energetically and
(19:09):
get them in touch with that.
And one of my foundationalthings that I do is breathing.
There's a very specific waythat I breathe to communicate
things to the horse and toactually provide myself with a
quick reset of my entire system.
So let's say I get anxious orthis horse did something and all
(19:31):
of a sudden I feel anxious andI feel that anxiety in my chest
and my body tightens and allthese things.
Well, this breathing that I dowill reset you back to your
relaxation place.
So it is also when I teachpeople the breathing it's to
actually be able to hold andmaintain a particular energy
(19:55):
frequency.
That you're doing and it goesalong with a body scan, which is
super important, of knowingwhat does my body feel like when
I'm playing a particular radiostation.
That's all you need to know.
What does my body feel like andwould the feeling that I have
in myself be what I would wantmy horse to experience.
(20:16):
Would that be helpful?
So, for example, we'll go backto safety and comfort.
I'm breathing, first of all,consistently, regularly,
smoothly, full body breathing,not just breathing from my
stomach or my heart or someother place.
I'm breathing fully through myentire body because my breath is
(20:40):
my energy field and so I wantto know where it's at every
moment and what it's saying.
And then I become aware ofwhere my energy is by scanning
my body internally every time.
I take a breath and go okay, oh, some tension just came up here
, I need to breathe that out.
(21:00):
And then, when we create afrequency, say we're going to go
for an anxious horse, safetyand comfort as my energy, then
I'm going to try.
I go through my body and go okay, I'm scanning my body.
Yes, my feet feel grounded.
Yes, I feel complete relaxationin my fully throughout my body.
(21:22):
Yes, I feel warm here.
I feel like my brain hasstopped moving.
I feel present.
All of these things are thingsthat we're doing somatically to
notice.
Okay, good, I'm set, now I canbe a, communicate this to my
horse with clarity, and I stayin that and I just breathe, and
(21:48):
I stay in that feeling of thesafety and comfort and pretty
soon you see the horse releasingand relaxing.
And it's a little morecomplicated not too complicated,
but I walk people through theability to create these
different frequencies that willsupport the horse and you will
get instant feedback from thehorse on whether or not that's
(22:11):
something that's helpful or nothelpful for them.
So that's the great thing it'san instant feedback mechanism to
right.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Does it the average person?
This is something they'd haveto practice, right?
We can't just walk out thereand it doesn't come.
I mean, because doesn't ourbrain get distracted and it's
really hard to like get intothat space to yes, and that's
learned, though.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Right, you can learn it Absolutely and that's what
the breathing is.
That I do is for.
It's to get us into AlphaBrainwave, which I talk about in
my book, which is a relaxed andfocused, it's a waking
meditation that you can do Onceyou get into this breathing and
(22:53):
you can be in a wakingmeditation and you can go about
your life and you can switchchannels and you can do all of
this stuff and that wakingmeditation will keep you in that
state that we all do.
Where we sit for hours andmeditate, we can do in about two
minutes with this or less.
You can train your body, onceyou get the breathing down, to
(23:17):
stay in a waking meditation allof the time.
That's what people ask me well,when do you do this breathing?
All of the time?
It has changed my life, okay,because I can stay present,
focus, relaxed and have alphabrainwaves, which are optimal
for the horse, and I can haveawareness.
All of the things that you knowwe're trying to do through
(23:40):
hours of meditation we can do ifwe practice this breathing
through just a few minutes andit becomes our life so this can
apply to how we're dealing withour other animals, obviously
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
I know that when I work with cats I mean there has
to be a regulation of myemotions.
Is dogs put up with an awful lot, you know they'll let their
dogs and then used to be reallyawful hit your dog.
You know things like that,right dog would come back.
A cat would never tolerate,right?
So of course, I'm kind to dogsand, you know, regulated with
(24:13):
dogs, but cats are verysensitive as well and there's no
pushing them around or forcinganything, and so it has to be
this quiet energy andexpectation that of course, in
my case, of course, you're gonnawant to sit there and have your
picture taken and wear thisHalloween costume and smile
because you're gonna get turkeyand you love turkey and we're
(24:33):
gonna pet you and you're gonnafeel, because we all are like
you're looking how wonderful youare and the cat feels that you
know and so measure.
It's like adding my energy ofboth holding that space, I guess
of energy with the cat, thatyou're gonna enjoy this and you
know because I don't forceanimals to do something I don't
want to do.
We choose them for thetournament.
I don't put a cat up there,that's not happy.
(24:54):
I wouldn't take long.
Why do that?
So we don't.
But the ones that love it loveit and they love, they can feel
all the.
However, one around them islike, wow, that's really cool.
And then he feels even better.
Does that make sense?
and then he sets in a taller andeven prouder, and you know so.
No negative people on set thesame, yeah, is that why a horse
(25:17):
can be very comfortable with you, but somebody else walks up,
and that that energy directedout of you.
Know you're gonna do this andgrab them.
You know right right so peopleneed to practice this place that
you're talking about, of being,I guess, regulated and calm and
meditative.
(25:37):
And put your phone away,because the minute your phone
does something.
You've lost your right, you'velost your breathing and
concentration.
That's when the horse goes.
I think I'll step on your footor whatever.
Right, right, you know, becauseyou're not present, because we
want to be present.
And same thing with children orpeople were talking to.
So it's a good life lesson, notjust for horses.
(25:59):
It sounds like absolutely and Ibelieve.
I.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
I came at this because I went and study human
psychology, because I felt likethat might be at my age, might
be the direction I need to go,that maybe horses we're not
going to be my final destinationyeah, right, but in that,
everything that I do andeverything that I teach people
(26:25):
has something for the horse tolearn, and the person and every
technique, if you want to callthat or thing that I show
somebody, there's a place that,okay, you're gonna practice your
breathing, you're gonnapractice your meditation, and
the horse is going to practicethis other thing.
(26:45):
So everything I developed hassomething for the horse and
something for the human and the.
The goal is to bring us allcloser to communion through
those simple exercises ortechniques that I use and after
you master them, it's not likeyou have to go out and do this
(27:09):
long drawn-out thing with everysingle animal you come to.
If you practice these things asa human and you get good at
these energy frequencies and theenergy, knowing and awareness
place, you would not have to.
You can walk up to any horse,any cat, any and it's different
any person, and I wanted toexpand this kind of in behind
(27:35):
the scenes.
It's.
It's an attempt, maybe to getpeople to be more empathetic and
to have more awareness of howthey're dealing with other
humans.
So this is not just a horseprogram or a horse thing over
here that I'm doing sacredspaces is not called some kind
(27:56):
of horse training.
It's an all-encompassing kindof a thing where, as we change,
everything in our life begins tochange, to align with the
energy, and we're starting to beable to choose how we want to
feel in a moment.
And if we don't feel that way,we have a mechanism or method to
(28:16):
get back to ourselves, intowhat we want to be experiencing.
So that's, that's kind of Iknow it's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
You say that we need to be in this world in a more
meaningful way, and I thinkthat's what you're talking about
presenting ourselves in a moremeaningful way, where we can be,
you know, be helpful.
I think it was Victor Frankelwho the meaning of, or man's
search for meaning in his book,the.
The idea part of it was our jobis to end suffering whenever
(28:51):
possible.
But if we can't end it, don'tadd to it.
And it seems to me that there'sso much anger and separation
and negativity and like grabbingat people in traffic or being
mean to a clerk.
Wherever we could, we all couldwork so much more on having
more empathy, kindness, beingpresent, and and you know it's
(29:15):
not about us they might just behaving a bad day.
Let's not make their day worse.
So right about being in thisworld in a more meaningful way
is a wonderful message, becausethen everything benefits from it
, and ourselves included,because we don't want to run
around hurting people.
That makes us feel terrible.
So you also, we talked about oryou talk about.
(29:42):
I just want to quote.
Although I would like thesacred space principles to reach
a broader audience, Iunderstand that not everyone is
ready, and that's so sad in away, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
and if you could expand that force, please.
I think, especially within thehorse world, it's almost in the
mass consciousness maybe ofhorse people that we have to
deal with these animals in aparticular way, that we have to
show dominance, that we have todo these particular training
(30:15):
this way and that way.
And and I, as I've gone around,I know there's some people that
they say I want a different wayand they can't really do it.
Or you see that they're notreally invested in it because
maybe it's too much work or theydon't think they can do it, and
so they, they fall by thewayside and then go back to that
(30:36):
.
What's known is okay, we canget this horse to do this thing
through dominance.
Yes, that will always work.
But what if you didn't have to?
But what if that required thatyou had to work a whole lot on
yourself to get there?
And that's, I think, when I saynot everybody's ready, because
(30:59):
when they realize, even thoughthe things that I show you are
simplified and you can get tothese, they take work.
They're simple but they're noteasy and it takes some practice
and a lot of people were so usedto this idea of instant results
.
I want to see that trainer comeout and instantly change that
horse and that's what we've beenshown.
(31:21):
And so that's again in our massconsciousness that it's going
to happen overnight.
And as I study the brain andthe people's emotions and
horses' emotions, we don't justget over something that fast.
There's more time and there hasto be consistency in our
environment to support thechange we're trying to make.
(31:45):
And this is true with thehorses.
If you decide, oh, I want to benice sometimes, and then you put
the horse back with otherpeople that are abusing it or
that go back to dominant stuffwith it, it's going to be really
confusing for that horse.
So I always think too in thisplace are we ready, is our
(32:06):
environment ready, to support achange to a different way of
doing things?
And I think this is one of mybiggest, I would say I don't
want to use a word frustrationsof going.
Ok, humans they're just so setin their ways sometimes and they
don't take two new ideas veryreadily.
(32:29):
Sometimes there's a small groupthat usually jump on right away
, but then there's the peoplegoing well, yeah, I don't know,
I got to stick to my old way ofdoing things, and they refer it
back.
So, yeah, that's a bigchallenge, I think for all of us
, because we think everything'ssupposed to be easy and instant
(32:54):
and the things that are reallymeaningful take attention and
time and dedication.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Oh, absolutely true.
When I first started thisjourney before I got my three
little Morgan Phillies fromMontana I'm over in Wisconsin,
so it was a journey.
I own other podcasts on MontanaMorgans, but anyway, I had lost
my hard horse.
We all have our hard horse andhe died of old age and so I had
(33:21):
sought out this other, anotherhorse, during the pandemic, when
horses were hard to come by andvery, very expensive, and I
found this mare that I could getin a range, a price range, but
she had a lot of anxiety andissues and stuff that she
brought to the table and I wasfollowing, learning some of
these new things.
But I was going way too fast,like, well, this will work, this
(33:44):
will work, I'll skip that, thiswill work.
And I made a lot of mistakes onnot really listening to her
anxiety and understanding.
I think, well, I can swing aleg over you and I can do this
and I can, you know, I can climbon you from the fence, so that
means you're ready for this nextstep.
And she wasn't at all in theunderlying anxiety and I wasn't.
I thought I was only halfhearing what was being taught,
(34:06):
half understanding what you'retalking about, because I was in
a hurry.
My horse died.
I want to ride a horse.
No, no, no, no, no right.
And I got.
She was riding with Bearback,with a halter in the paddock,
just to you know, because wealways start out just going to
start with the.
She was broke, but it was likerestarting right and either she
was in pain or the anxiety levelthreshold was too high.
(34:28):
Whatever she bucked andeverything, and not being a kid
anymore, I landed on my pelvis,broke it in three places.
You know, had a helmet, so Ididn't get a bad concussion, but
it just shook me to the corebecause I never blamed the horse
, I blamed myself and I had togo back and go.
Wait a minute, you're, you'renot really doing what you think
you're doing.
You know you think you're doingthis, this understanding this,
(34:52):
this connection, da da da.
Obviously you're not listening.
She said no, you're not goingto ride me right now.
She said it is the only way shecould, you know.
So it was a.
It had to really go back,because even it takes a lot
longer, like you said.
So, with the new Montana mayors, completely different mindset
about how I was going toapproach them and it is
(35:13):
transformative because I'mfinally taking the time,
whatever time they need.
The anxious horse took seven,eight months to get to where we
could, you know, get a relaxedabout picking up her feet or
simple things like that wherethe trust got built.
And it's amazing because bygoing slow I'm going fast,
(35:35):
exactly what you talk about.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
So right, and once you understand the frequencies
and what you're broadcasting andhow you can I hate to use the
word speed up that process, butyou can get through that anxiety
and stuff in a very shortamount of time.
But part of what this is is theability to identify trauma and
(35:58):
in the horse and know what to dowhen you see that.
And again, a lot of theslowness in the process is
having to go back and addressthe trauma places and have the
horse release those and thattakes more time than if you
started out all good at thebeginning.
(36:19):
But this is what people are notunderstanding.
Sometimes they go well, wewould like to do your process
but it takes too long and I'msaying no, it actually goes much
faster.
But the reason it looks like ittakes a long time is because
when I go do a clinic or agathering and these horses come
in, they have such volumes oftrauma stored in their body that
(36:40):
we need to have a mechanism tohelp to let that go before we
can communicate anything to thathorse or teach them anything
right Right.
Because, when they're anxious,no, because they've got a
distraction there.
My anxiety is making me shutdown my brain and I can't focus
on what you're saying, and sothat's what I've been developing
(37:03):
over the years is thesetechniques or ways that we can
ask the horse certain questionsand have them start to release
their trauma in a faster way?
And again, our breathing itgoes back to our ability to hold
the breath, excuse me, thebreath that we are doing, that
we hold a safe space for them torelease their trauma, and this
(37:27):
is super important, and so a lotof times I can go in.
I've narrowed it down to askingthe horses for main questions
when I come in with them, andit's like the four agreements,
it's like four questions.
I'm going to ask this horse andwhen I come into that space I'm
going to ask him those andthey're going to tell me where
(37:48):
their trauma stored and they'regoing to show me all of the
stuff and I'm going to show themhow to align their body and
connect their mind to their body, because a lot of horses are
not connected through their bodyto their mind and, especially
if they get stressed, theydisconnect their mind from their
body and then they becomereactive.
So I'm going to go through withsome questions that I asked the
(38:11):
horse before I get on, and it'sgoing to show me where the
trauma is, if they need anythingto release.
And if you go through thosequestions on a regular basis you
can streamline that connectionand trust issue almost
instantaneously.
I mean, I've seen go in and askthese horse questions and
(38:34):
they're like I'm with you, I'mon you, I'm good, and so this
has been my goal over the lastfew years is just first of all,
how do I identify trauma in ahorse?
Do I know what to do with that?
Can I identify what's going onand what am I going to do with
(38:55):
that?
And so that was what I wasreally glad that I did is study
psychology, and actually mydissertation was on trauma, and
so I wasn't interested in goingin that field with humans at all
.
But I realize now in retrospectthat that was part of my
(39:16):
preparation, for what I'm doingnow is that I had to understand
trauma.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Well, doesn't trauma manifest itself the same way in
most mammals?
Absolutely, because we workedwith young people especially
who've had adverse childhoodexperiences and trauma, the
right horse could be found to beso healing for them to be able
to learn to even identifyemotions.
(39:40):
So that's kind of a differentpurpose.
But it's just the opposite whenwe're helping the horse with
their trauma and I find thatbecause we're animals as well-
we're mammals.
So the things work and I findthat the ways of regulating
ourselves affect all the animalsthat are around.
I have a flock of sheep there'slike six or seven, so a small
(40:02):
little flock and I adore thembeyond words.
It's not even I just love themso much, but once I started
learning about how horses handletrauma, I could see the same
signals in sheep, becausethey're animals that get chased.
Sheep do not have as much.
And so I found ways ofregulating my although I got
(40:23):
along with my sheep really well,I could go into a strange flock
and because I can stay in theplace you talk about, the sheep
will approach me where theynormally would never do.
That, because human beings canbe.
You know you're pushing usaround.
Whatever they're.
More they're not tame like mineand it blew me away that that
it works, that you can do thatwith other mammals, and I love
(40:45):
that, and so I'm going to keeppracticing that so that I can be
better with with all theanimals I get to meet, because
certainly works with children.
I mean, why would a childapproach you if you're giving
off that horrible energy?
If I'm going to grab you andsmother you?
or I don't like to stay awayfrom me.
They're pretty intuitive, theyknow.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Absolutely Wow, absolutely Cool, okay I want to,
sorry, go ahead.
Oh, I was just going to add onto that.
My dissertation was all aboutadverse childhood experiences
and its effect on our health andadulthood, and you could look
at that in terms of horses.
They have adverse fullexperiences yes, that affect
(41:27):
them throughout their life andaffect their mental and physical
health.
So that's really my where I'mcoming from.
A lot of what I do is comingfrom that place.
And how can we build inresiliency?
How can we change thattrajectory?
And I find it easier in horsesthan it is in people.
(41:48):
I just want to add that.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
No, this is true.
Well gosh, this has been soinformative, and we're going to
talk about how people can get intouch with you and come to your
workshops, find your website,which is a wealth of information
.
We'll have all this on the shownotes as well.
Where to get your book?
I recommend it to everybody.
But now we're to the part ofthe show where we do.
(42:12):
I sent you some questions, butI got to hold these up because
we call this the cookie break orsnack break.
So there's chocolate chipcookies here.
It's from my crew.
They won't work, otherwise, ifyou were here, we'd be feeding
you, okay, okay.
Well, this is Wisconsin.
That's what we do.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
I noticed that.
That's why I love going to themidwest.
I don't know what you do.
Are you considered Midwest?
Oh, yes, I always get good food.
It's lovely.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Yeah, and heavy rich, good butter food.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yeah, Good, good like comfort food.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Exactly what's cold here, just like there in the
mountains it's cold, so it'ssupposed to snow today.
But we're going to.
We're going to.
I sent five questions and Iborrowed those questions from
Tim Ferriss's book a tribe ofmentors, because they're
wonderful questions to askduring an interview and so you
got to pick out from a list of20 questions that you'd like to
ask.
So we're just going to jumpright into those, okay.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
All right.
Well, I guess I didn't.
Did I get that?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
You did, you sent it.
You were like so efficientbecause you sent it right away.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Did I.
Oh well then, tell me which oneI asked.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
All right.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
So the first question is what is the most valuable
thing that you put your timeinto that has changed the course
of your life?
Speaker 2 (43:34):
It was understanding myself and who I am inside and
out, and really I think, throughall the struggles that we go
through, but to have thatawareness of wow, I just got
triggered by that, or this iswhat I'm feeling in this moment,
(43:56):
and have the ability to thinkabout it and change it if I want
to.
It's been one of the biggestthings and I do that all through
the breathing and, yeah, soimagine that we've been
breathing our whole lives andbreathing in the proper way, and
the full body has changed mylife immensely and that of
(44:22):
horses and animals that Iinteract with.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Well, we all breathe, so it's something we can work
on.
I mean, what is simple to startwith, right, it's kind of you
know that's the whole thing.
Okay, do you have a mentor andwhat did that person or what did
that person do that helped you,I'm sorry.
Do you have a mentor and whatdid that person help you
discover about yourself?
Speaker 2 (44:50):
When I talked about earlier my mentors.
I had many, and really mygreatest mentors were my horses,
because they taught meeverything I need to know and
the same thing with being out innature.
Those were all my mentors andif I had a question I could ask
(45:11):
them, and it's interesting thatwe I did have some human mentors
that showed me things like howto ride, but really the
important life lessons came frommy horses.
And I was writing I justfinished a handbook on my
(45:35):
breathing and I'm putting ittogether and somebody asked well
, where are your references?
Which scientific study are youquoting and why are you doing
this?
Well, I think in my referencelist it's going to be the names
of the horses that influenced me, because they taught me that
and it was that they gave me thevalidation, not that I have to
(45:58):
be validated by someone else dida study and they said the same
thing.
Oh, then you're validated.
How about?
I practice this thing and itworked on my horse and he
validated it for me.
Sure.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
I love that.
I think we all have horses likethat in our lives.
What inspires and motivates youto do what you do and what is
your true purpose in the world?
Speaker 2 (46:25):
What inspires me to do what I do is the horses, and
a lot of times people think,well, you're probably pretty
extroverted if you're out inthis world, but I'm super
introverted and I'd be happy tobe on my ranch doing just horses
.
So I'm inspired to go outbecause I'm doing it on behalf
(46:45):
of the horses.
I can put my pants on and I mybig girl pants on and take a lot
of criticism or a lot ofnegative feedback because I go,
well, yeah, but I'm doing thisfor the horses and their best
interest at heart, and I cantake a lot for the team and I
will go out there and, to thebest of my ability, help people
(47:10):
learn what the horses are tryingto teach us, and so they are my
inspiration.
There was a second part to thatquestion, was there?
Speaker 1 (47:20):
I think you answered too what is your true purpose in
the world?
Which is make things better.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
And I think that's it .
And it's interesting thatthroughout my life, till I was
about 60, I had no idea what mypurpose was and I struggled with
that a lot, and maybe somewomen go through their lives and
you've done things for otherpeople and you end up at a place
where you go.
Well, what was my purpose?
(47:46):
And really it is just to go outand speak what the horses want
me to say on their behalf, andthat is my purpose, because in
the process, I believe they'retrying to help us as humans to
evolve.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Oh, I love that.
That's a really great thought.
I mean, that's really beautifulthinking about that, because
they're so giving and so horsesand all of us are lucky that you
are doing this and we'regrateful for you.
Appreciate that, thank you.
That was the luckiest thingthat ever happened to you.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
The luckiest thing and you know that's an
interesting question Would it beabout me or would it be about
beyond me?
So the luckiest thing for mewas when Warwick Schillers found
my book on his kitchen tableand then started speaking about
it.
That's wonderful, but reallythe luckiest thing was that
(48:48):
people would listen then andthen I could have a voice for
the horses.
That was the luckiest day andit opened up my heart because
I'm thinking, wow, I had so manythings to say on their behalf
and I wasn't being heard beforehe opened up those doors, and so
I'll be internally grateful.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
That's funny that you mentioned Warwick Schillers,
because that was the first horseperson in this vein that I
started following and I wouldlisten to his podcast and
learned about all of youwonderful people.
He has a great podcast and thereason I have a podcast is I
really want to be on Warwick'spodcast to tell him how my whole
view of training animals andanimal actors and horse, how
(49:32):
everything has changed andshifted based on what I started
learning through him and nowothers, and I thought, well,
warwick doesn't know me, he'snot going to have me on his
podcast, I'll just start my ownpodcast.
See, that's exactly how ithappened, because I wanted to
get this message out and shareit with others and by having
people like you, hopefully wecan keep growing and get this
(49:52):
message out.
And if one horse's life isbetter for it, one dog, one cat
and, in my heart, one child, Ithink we're doing something good
.
So, again, grateful that you'rehere and grateful for your
message and that's funny how itwork, if you're listening we
both say thank you.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
I know, yeah, I mean, I'll always be so indebted and
thankful and grateful for theopportunities Probably not just
for me but for all of the horsesand all of the people that get
to go on that and speak theirtruth and open up people's minds
and hearts to a different way,exactly.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Wow, there you go.
That's our testimony forWarwick.
He won't mind.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
No, probably you'll be okay.
Speaker 1 (50:40):
You have to send him a note.
Hey, we talked about you.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
He probably can hear there you go.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
There you go, all right.
Last question what did you wantto be as a child and how close
did you get to that dream?
Speaker 2 (50:56):
Well, I actually wanted to be a jockey.
Well, the first thing I wantedto be a cowboy, or cowboy, oh me
too, cowboy.
Yeah, and you know, you gothrough your life and they tell
you, no, those boxes aren'tavailable to you.
So here's your boxes you canchoose from.
It cracks me up that I'mfinally living, actually a dream
(51:20):
I couldn't have even haveimagined as a child, like there
was not even a box that saidsomeday you'll be working
energetically with horses and doyou want to check that box?
Oh, yes, please.
No, that wasn't even in myconsciousness anywhere.
But to be able to spend everyday with horses or speaking with
(51:40):
horse people or doing somethingin that thing, oh my God, what
more can you ask for in yourlife?
That's as close to my dreamthat I can get.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
That's wonderful and, like I said, we're glad to have
you.
Would you like to share with usnow how we can find you?
We're going to have these notesthere too, but we may as well
say them and what this podcast?
You know they live forever, sowe could put a current event but
it may pass by the time.
But you do hold, you do hold.
Did you call them that?
(52:12):
Not workshops, but you had aword gathered.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
I'm getting gatherings.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Yeah, yeah, and you are coming back to Wisconsin.
You were in Madison last year,right?
So are you coming back toWisconsin?
Speaker 2 (52:23):
I believe I'll probably be back.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
Yeah, I'm definitely going to make that trip to come
see you.
Oh good, so please just goahead and share, like how we
find you and where we can findyour book and all this, this
good stuff.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
Okay and you can find me.
It's the easiest to go to DrSusan Faye FAY.
It's D R S U S A N FAYcom andthat's my website, and there'll
be ways you can contact methrough my website.
You can email me on there.
You could set up a session ifyou're interested in doing that.
(53:00):
Okay, so let up a session.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
I'm sorry, let's talk about your sessions.
Go ahead.
Yeah, you tell us about yoursessions, please.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Oh, I do some virtual sessions online and it's funny
because it works sometimesbetter than in person.
I don't know what it is aboutthe energy, or maybe it's
singularly focused, but I canwalk through some of the four
questions.
I asked the horse.
We can address some traumaissues.
We can address communion,connection, all sorts of
(53:32):
different things, even writing,if you wanted to, on the virtual
session, and they're usuallyabout an hour.
If it's a lot of trauma stuff,I may break it up into doing
shorter session, maybe two halfhours or something like that,
and they're really focusedspecifically on the person.
The horse team you know yourrelationship with your horse,
(53:54):
okay, and really teaching yousome of these principles is
start with the breathing, ofcourse, and then I'll teach you
about how to create differentenergy frequencies and we'll
play with your horse on thoseyou know and see which one is
going to help.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
That's amazing, because now you've opened it up
to people that you know, forwhatever reason, can't get to a
gathering, or you know if it'sthe middle of winter and you
can't be, you know, or they livein another part of the world.
I mean, how wonderful is thattechnology, how cool is that.
It is cool, so that's on yourwebsite if people want more
information about that.
And I should mention, on yourwebsite there's a lot of videos
(54:27):
where you're talking about allkinds of behaviors and things
and things we can do, we canlearn from you.
So you've got really a nicewebsite with lots of information
that's out there for people.
So appreciate that.
And then I see you have a.
There's a Facebook group ifpeople want to follow that, and
so that's all great Right.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
And you can go to my Facebook group.
It's sacred spaces, forwardslash, sacred wisdom.
And if you go on there, justanswer all the questions they
ask in the administrative orelse the administrator won't let
you on if you don't agree tosome of the I just I made sure
to join it today because I wantto, I want to like, keep
following this, so I'm sureyou'll, I'm sure you'll let me
(55:09):
in.
Oh, I pretty sure I think I'llgo look and make sure I'll
behave myself, I promise.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
Okay, cool, this has been really, really wonderful.
All it makes me want to do isgo out and start talking to my
horses, like right now, andpractice the things I've been
learning and reading and try toget this word out.
So again, I recommend oh, wherecan we find your book?
Where can we find your book?
Speaker 2 (55:32):
You can find it link to it is on my website, but you
can also go to Amazon and justlook it up there.
And it's available in the printversion, and then I have a
audio book also.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
Trying to get it in focus there.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
That looks good, there you go.
Speaker 1 (55:51):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
I'm going to try to get the audio.
Speaker 1 (55:53):
Okay, before we go, because I wanted to ask because
Morgan horses.
Okay, just tell us about yourMorgan horses.
Do you still have a Morganhorse by any chance, or?
Speaker 2 (56:04):
I still have four of my original horses that I bred.
So I two, well three of threeof them are morgans.
And then I've got a friend'shorse here, that's a Azteca,
that stays on my ranch.
But really sad news, I justlast month lost my tank horse
(56:25):
that I write about in my book.
So he just passed and he wasreally the inspiration for
everything I do.
He was so humble and he was sowonderful.
You know about everything hecould do and I have to say that
about all of my horses.
When you do this kind ofawareness of yourself that every
(56:47):
relationship it's different butit's the same, it's the ease of
the have, the relationship.
You know, once we learn theserelationships principles with
horses.
So you know, when I think ofpeople say a hard horse, and I
think I wrote about that as aquote at the end, about your
hard horse, it's like all of mywork.
They were special in their ownunique ways but they were all
(57:09):
hard horses.
Speaker 1 (57:10):
Oh, exactly, it's like children, you don't love
one more than the other, youlove them differently, you know.
I get that?
Yeah, and I think that I had toput an old mare down.
She was 29.
So she didn't.
She was, her cushions hadgotten to the point where it was
time and I think they make room, and it was like she was ready
to go and she's just made roomfor whatever else needed to be
(57:33):
in that space.
That makes any sense at all.
It's always hard to say why, butthey all mean something.
They all came.
You know she was a rescue marefrom Forevermoregans out of New
York and we had her 12, 12, 13years in her retirement.
She had a very happy life, butI get that.
So just a shout out to all theMorgan people out there.
We love all the other breedstoo, but we're just going to,
(57:54):
we're just going to, you know,sisters, morgans, exactly,
exactly, all right.
Well, this has been such apleasure and such a joy and
we're so grateful that you tookthe time for us today.
I want everyone to go get herbook, listen to her website,
sign up for a session, join mein Wisconsin when I go, or you
find out where she's going to beand go see her in person,
(58:15):
because I think you and yourhorse will benefit from it.
So thank you, dr Susan Faye,for coming.
We really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (58:22):
Well, thank you so much for having me.
It was great.
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