Experience the transformative power of animal therapy with our special guest Grace Olson, a dedicated therapist and author from Leeds, West Yorkshire, whose unique practice involves the compassionate companionship of horses and sheep. Grace shares her fascinating journey into animal therapy, which began with her sheep, Merlin, providing unexpected comfort to a depressed client. Discover how these animals, once meant for slaughter, have found new purpose in offering emotional support to terminally ill individuals, promoting relaxation and peace through their gentle presence.
Grace also opens up about her journey as an author during the lockdown, from sharing heartfelt stories on Facebook to overcoming numerous rejections and finding success through self-publishing. Her book, "The Yard: How a Horse Healed My Heart," is a testament to her resilience and passion for storytelling.
This episode emphasizes the therapeutic benefits of nature and animals, the importance of finding inner peace, and seeking support during tough times. As we wrap up, Grace shares behind-the-scenes insights from filming "The Yorkshire Vet," offering a humorous glimpse into the reality of working with therapy sheep. Tune in for a heartfelt conversation about purpose, legacy, and the healing power of animals.
https://www.empathetic-trainer.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hi, I'm Barbara O'Brien.
I'm an animal trainer andphotographer and I'd like to
welcome you to the EmpatheticTrainer.
Hello, this is barbara o'brienand you're listening to the
epithetic trainer podcast.
Today's guest is grace olson.
Grace is a therapist, authorand animal lover.
(00:36):
She's written the best sellingbook, the yard, a book called
the farm, and she just publishedher first children's book
called merlin finds his magic.
Grace olson assists terminallyill people to find inner peace
and their true, infinite self.
She's assisted by her horsesand her sheep.
She's been a qualified bodyworktherapist for almost 30 years
and is also an ILM levelcertified coach.
(00:58):
Okay, hello, grace.
Hi, we're so glad to have youhere on our podcast today.
Boy, we have so many topics tocover.
I think you know we'll have tohave several podcasts just to
get through them, but we'llstart with some of the first
things.
One I'm here in rural Wisconsin, so it's pretty hot today.
It's very, very green, very wet.
We've had a lot of rain.
(01:19):
I love talking to people fromdifferent parts of the world.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
So let's talk a little bit about where you are
and what it's like where you are.
So I'm in Leeds and that's WestYorkshire in the UK and it's in
the middle of well, so where Iactually live right now here in
this house, this is closer tothe city, so I'm near a really
lovely place called Chaparlatan.
It's got lots of cafes andthings like that, but literally
(01:46):
five minutes that way is wheremy fields are with my horses and
my sheep and it's justbeautiful countryside.
So it's an interesting.
Leeds is interesting becauseyou've got city and incredible
the Dales, countryside rightnext to each other.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
They have both.
That sounds lovely soundslovely, yeah, um, all of us.
Um, well, certainly my husbandand I were like we love british
television.
I know that sounds so silly,but like we love watching
british television and thentrying to figure out where the
shows are taking place.
Um, and yorkshire certainlycomes up in a lot of wonderful
television, so it's pretty great.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yorkshire is the most beautiful part of England.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Well, I can say that about Wisconsin.
It's definitely the mostbeautiful.
I think my other states woulddiffer, but you know how it is,
that's really neat, all right.
Well, tell me a little bitabout the animals that you have
right now, so your horses andyour sheep.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I have got two horses which belong to me, but I look
after three and I have five petsheep and a dog.
A dog's just there in the citythat you can't see.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I have three, and they're all like right here.
You know, what kind of dogs doyou have?
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Just the other one, she's a greyhound, oh lovely.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
They're kind of cats here.
You know what kind of dogs doyou have?
Just other ones.
She's a greyhound.
Oh lovely they're kind of cats.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Greyhounds are big cats.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yes, Very much.
That's cool.
And so when you say pet sheep,you know now most people when
they think of sheep they thinkthey're really dumb, which of
course they're not.
And they kind of have this ideathat they just stared at
everything, which they have goodreason to be, you know, worried
about their environment, but ifyou give them a safe
environment, they're prettyrelaxed about things.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Tell us about your pet sheep.
So my pet sheep, they're alllittle boys, all of them were
destined to be on people'sdinner plates, but they came to
me for various different reasonsand they're just amazing and
their therapy sheet and they'vebeen on the television and they
help.
I mainly work for people whoare terminally ill.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
So they do a lot of good work, making people feel
happier in their worst time oftheir lives.
So what is it about sheep thatmakes them good therapy animals?
I mean, I know that I go sitwith mine and I sit with them
and, like our heart rates startto match and I relax and I get
calm.
But most people don't have thatopportunity.
So what made you decide?
You know sheep could probablywork really well to help people.
Please tell me how that started, what that story is about.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Well, it was an accident.
So the associates that I gotwere a pair called Bambi and
Merlin, and so what happened wasI was doing a therapy session
for this lady.
She was so depressed, it wasawful, and so the therapy
session was with my horses,because I do equine assisted
coaching, and then, out ofcorner of my eye, you could see
(04:49):
merlin, and it seemed pretty, sobent and just know, you were
just being say, can do thatbetter than those horses, and he
just, he just walked up and hepushed himself into the woman
and so she bent down to cuddlehim and she laughed and she
hadn't laughed for a yearbecause she was extremely
(05:10):
depressed.
She wasn't so nearly ill, shehad other problems, and so
that's how sheep therapyhappened, because Merlin decided
he was going to make it happen.
I believe, that, yeah, they'reso wise, they know how to be
with each person.
I've noticed, because with somepeople they're just, they're a
(05:31):
bit, they can be a bit rough youknow they're sort of they're a
bit head bussy, but not massive,just having a laugh, because
with other people they're verygentle and very calm and so they
they give what the person needs.
I believe that.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I have seven pet sheep Humphrey Bogart, Ingrid
Bergman, Jimmy Stewart, GaryCooper, Jean Arthur and then
there's a giant suffolk and hername is Lady Margaret, because
she's the boss of everybody, andthen a really old one now named
Beatrice, who's like thefriendliest one, but I
understand that completely andpeople.
(06:08):
I've been learning aboutcalming signals in horses, how
horses show stress and how theyshow a release of stress, and
how horses communicate.
Every action an animal does iscommunication.
So I've been learning howhorses communicate more and more
, although I've been a lifelonghorse person and then I started
to apply the same principles tothe sheep and I'm sure, as a
(06:29):
person who's aware of your sheepand how they act and behave,
you've seen the same things.
So it makes sense to me whatyou're talking about, how a
sheep that is acclimated tohumans and doesn't have a fear
of them because they've beenproperly socialized would
definitely be able to come upand kind of read that person's
energy and then decide how to bearound them, just like horses
(06:51):
do.
Do I need to fear you?
Am I going to be comfortablewith you?
What do you need from me?
I mean whoever looks at a sheepand thinks the sheep might be
going.
What do you need from me?
But in a way, from yourexperience, that seems to be
what's happening.
Correct, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Absolutely, that's exactly what they're thinking.
Yeah, so it's just so in tune.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Well, I noticed that horses will lick their lips when
they're regulating themselvesagain and that had to do with
blood flow rushing to theirmuzzle from stress, and then the
release of stress makes themwant to lick their lips and
salivate and things likesalivate Can't think of the word
, but I never thought about ituntil I started studying it and
(07:35):
the sheep do the same thing.
So when something scares them,and then they regulate again,
like oh, we're okay, they lickand chew just like a horse.
And I thought well, they againlike oh, we're okay, they lick
and chew just like a horse.
And I thought well, they'reboth prey animals.
That makes perfect sense.
So that was really interestingto me to watch that.
And then how they communicatewith each other as herd animals
and, you know, move in a group.
So the, the head butting the aslike, um, I'm trying to get
(07:59):
your attention.
That makes perfect.
You know the sense to me.
And if they wanted to hurt you,they they certainly could.
If they have horns, if they'requite large.
But it sounds like your sheepare so acclimated and probably
just wonderful souls.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
They are.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
They are very special souls.
Yeah, one more thing about thelick-lipping.
Lick-lipping Okay, start overagain Lip-licking.
I noticed it in chickens.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I had no idea.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I have chickens but I'm raising a new flock and I'm
using attunement with them, soI'm teaching them to like, be
used to me and want to be aroundme, and kind of a consent, like
the chicken has a choice.
Does that make sense?
that's great when, when they getnervous and something happens.
The chickens do the same thing,and I didn't know birds I
haven't studied birds at all sogotta talk to a chicken person
(08:48):
about that one someday.
Yes, but all kinds of mammalsand birds probably can work as
therapy animals if we let themabsolutely definitely so how
does it work with horses?
When you say you're a coachwith horses, how does that work?
Speaker 1 (09:05):
So that was in the ILM coaching course that I did.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
They included learning ILM, just so that
people don't know what thatmeans.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
It's International Leadership and Mentoring.
It's an English certificationfor coaching.
Sorry, the Institute ofLeadership and Mentoring
coaching.
Okay, I'm sorry, the instituteof leadership and mental and um,
uh, so part of that course waslearning horse body language in
relationship to somebody havingtherapy.
(09:34):
So somebody say is there withthe horse and the horse
basically helps you to see whatthe person isn't saying through
their reaction to the person,not necessarily mirroring the
person, but just reacting to theperson.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Can you give us an example I mean, you know, of a
story that anonymous, but canyou give us an example of what
you mean by that, so that ifyou're not a horse person you
have kind of an understandingwhat you mean by?
Speaker 1 (10:05):
that, so that if you're not a horse person, you
have kind of an understanding.
So one of the most, uh,remarkable sessions I ever had
was, um, this lady came for somecoaching.
She is an artist and has a lotof self-doubts and she'd also
been very badly bullied by herhusband and she'd been bullied
at school.
So she had a history of justlow, very low self-esteem.
(10:28):
And so to build up herself-esteem, um, I set up an
optical course in our littleschool and I invited her to go
around it with our most chilledout, wonderful, lovely horse.
Who's this?
It was a really old man, he'sactually he's in my books, this
(10:50):
particular horse, and he isusually the most kind, chilled
out, easy to be with animal.
And yet with her he kept bashingher, pushing her out of the way
, and he was behaving like I'dnever, ever, seen him behave
like that ever.
And so that's what brought outof her, all of her.
(11:13):
Because I didn't know she'd hadthis history of the whole
history.
I just knew she had lowself-esteem at that point.
But he showed me she has noboundaries, nothing.
So he couldn't respect her as aleader and he couldn't allow
her to take him around thisobstacle course, because she
(11:33):
didn't have faith in herself,and he was showing that up by
bashing her and being able tobash her, and I had to step in
because he was going toliterally walk over her, and so
that then triggered theconversation of her history of
really quite horrible abuse,actually, which she probably
(11:55):
wouldn't have spoken about hadit not been for this particular
horse showing her what she was,which was somebody that didn't
have any self-care, noboundaries wow.
So over time, over time, was ithelpful for her to work with him
yeah, it made her thinkdifferently about herself and
(12:19):
yeah, she's now a quite prolificartist.
She's selling more because shevalues herself more and she's in
a much better relationship.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
now she's remarried and her life's different Horses
can do that for sure.
You know all animals, buthorses are really a special gift
that way.
Never mind the cat there.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
That's brilliant.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah, that's Willow.
That's her latest cat, who justcame to live with us, and she's
pregnant, so we don't dokittens, but this will be the
first time in a very long timewe're going to have a litter,
because that's how she showed up.
Anyway, she's telling meobviously you're not paying
attention to me and I needsomething right now.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
And there she goes.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
All right.
So when you talked a little bitabout terminally ill people or
people that are facing crisislike that, how do you find the
horses and sheep help them cope?
I mean, it's got to be aterrible place to know that your
life is going to end soonerthan you would want.
For sure, and you know about it.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yes, and so what I try to do is help them realize
that knowing that they have aterminal illness is actually the
best gift that they could have,because we are all going to die
, and it's better to prepare nowreally, and it's better to
prepare now really, you know.
So the horses or the sheep?
(13:47):
Because the horses and thesheep they're just living free.
I don't force any of them to beinvolved, they choose.
So, whichever animal comes intothe session, the key is mainly
I have to listen first to theperson, because not everybody's
ready for the spiritualrevelations, but for those that
(14:10):
are, then the deepest work I canoffer them is the opportunity
to realize that, beyond ourlimited sense of self and using
our senses, we are infinitebeings.
We're more than this smallness,and knowing that you are dying
(14:33):
is an opportunity to acquaintyourself with what you really
are, so that when you leave yourbody and leave everything here
behind, you'll be morecomfortable.
Not everybody's ready for thatsort of thing, but it is
possible to gain that withhorses and sheep.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Do you find that the horses and the sheep know that
the person is ill?
Speaker 1 (15:01):
I mean I, found that with dogs, I think so you know.
I think they do, because so oneexample is that this lady came
up to our place and she hadliver cancer and my ginger horse
, who's quite aloof, she's notreally somebody that wants to
come and be petted she marchedstraight over to this woman and
(15:24):
put her nose on where thiswoman's liver is, so she went
straight for where the tumor was.
So whether she can, whetherthey have a smell, which they
potentially, you know, I imaginethere is a smell, but whatever
it was, she sensed it and sheknew.
And just that small act of herputting her nose on the tumor,
(15:46):
that woman, she cried, shereleased such deep sorrow and
she died with a smile on herface.
So her family let me know shehad an amazing death wow, well,
I do believe horses can smellthings.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
I've just learned this summer that their factory
system is as good asver, and oneday we were doing a job on set.
(16:27):
I hadn't used him for a whileand he wouldn't work.
He just wouldn't work.
He kept wanting to go back tohis owner and normally he loved
the job.
It was like the most fun in theworld.
You know, you get treats andit's like attention.
But he could not leave hisowner's side.
And um, it was so strange anduh, I said you know, dog is done
, you know we got enough.
And they didn't.
I wasn't going to push the dogbecause he was obviously
(16:48):
stressed, so like that's, that'sgood, we're done, you know.
And so, uh, later within a week, the fellow um called me and
told me he had pancreatic cancerand he didn't know, he didn't
know the dog knew the dog waslike I have to stay with you,
I'm with you, I can't be awayfrom you.
Wow, and then you know, sadlynot too long after the fellow
died, but the dog knew and I'veseen that a couple times now, so
(17:11):
like if your dog is sniffingyou weird times ago but, but I
mean just like it's amazing whatanimals tell us if we're
listening, Because, as mentionedbefore and I think I picked
this up from Lockie Phillips,who is a horse person every form
of movement is communication.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
So everything your animal is doing.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
They're trying to communicate with you.
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
All right, let's talk aboutyour books.
You've got quite a you knowthree books out now, and then we
are going to talk about yourtelevision appearances and all
that cool stuff that's happeningfor you.
I'm really excited and happy,but what motivated you to write
your first book?
And let's talk about thatwhat's the name of your first
(17:54):
book and what it's about myfirst book is the Yard how a
Horse Healed my Heart.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
How a horse healed my heart.
And I started that in lockdownbecause I couldn't do my therapy
work.
I had nothing to do and I justI wanted to do something to help
people feel better.
So I went on Facebook and thereare.
You know, there's loads ofhorsey Facebook groups so on one
particular Facebook group, Ijust wrote this little story of
this quite cheeky old horse thatI've been looking after.
(18:24):
She was a really funny horseand it got so many likes and
comments that that made me think, oh, I can do more of this.
So then somebody suggested whydon't you set up your own
Facebook page?
So I did that, and so I decidedevery week I'm going to write a
short story of of how I gotback into riding as an adult,
(18:46):
because I was riding as a child.
Then I had a break and then Igot back to it as an adult and,
um, and it was just so, itbecame so popular.
It was unbelievable.
It was like the stuff of dreams.
People would send me messages.
I look forward to your littlestory every week.
It's keeping me going, and youknow I was getting hundreds and
(19:08):
hundreds and hundreds, literally, of messages.
That's fantastic.
It was wow.
It made me cry, like every daythere'd be several messages
People related.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Obviously you know you were living an experience
that they could relate to.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Yes, it was just wow.
So then I thought, well, whydon't I write a book?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
So I wrote the book and you figured out a way to get
it published and distributed,because that's incredibly hard.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
It was so hard, it was so depressing.
Oh my gosh, because obviouslyyou have expectations, don't you
?
There I was thinking well, it'sso popular on Facebook, it'll
just get published.
So I wanted it to be reallygood, so I worked with the top
editors in the UK.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Oh, that's great.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, they all worked at Random House Penguin and the
Top.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
They were the Top.
Oh, I'm familiar, I mean, withPenguin and Random House.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
So it was hard work working with an editor, but they
really helped me to get thebook into a very, very good
shape.
So then it was ready to submitto agents.
Oh, the first rejection.
It it like a knife in my heart.
And then, and I was so I wasshocked because I honestly was
(20:30):
thinking but why not, why do?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
you not want my book?
Well, yeah, you have a storythat resonates with so many
people especially.
You know, when I was workingwith Penguin and Random house,
it was like how big is yoursocial media, how big is your
following, you know?
Like that was really, reallyimportant, right, and it seems
to me like you had this hugefollowing, all this support, da,
da, da, da um, it seems strangethat they would have turned you
(20:53):
down.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, they're saying that it's just not interesting
enough um, but not horse and sowell, that's what I thought.
So I thought, right, I'llapproach somebody else.
So basically I approached 20different agents and got
rejections from all of them wowso, so, oh my god.
(21:14):
it was so depressing and um.
But I was showing all of thison facebook because, as well as
posting my stories, I wasposting about myself, yeah.
So everybody was saying, justkeep going, ignore them.
And then somebody said, whydon't you self-publish?
And it was like a light bulband I thought, well, yeah, why
not?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
And so it was just absolute, pure luck that I heard
about the company that I'veself-published with.
They're called forself-publishing partnership.
All of them used to work foragain, like penguin and you know
the top so they've worked inthe industry.
They're a group of old men andthey are absolutely brilliant,
(21:58):
the most fabulous.
I don't know if you've everseen the English program Blast
of the Summer, why.
I sort of think they're likethat.
They're just lovely and theyknow the business.
So they produced the book forme and because I already had
such a big following on Facebookand I have actually learned
(22:20):
advertising years ago so I knewhow to market myself.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Oh, that's the key isn't it?
Speaker 1 (22:26):
but that's great.
Oh yeah, um, so the book justflew.
I mean, the book sold out onthe day of publishing.
Um, yeah, the day of publishing, it sold out.
We had to do an emergency printrun the same day.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
How encouraging for people who want to get the story
out there.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yes, that's fabulous Self-publish.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I actually have a book that was published in 2014
by Penguin Random House that'swhy I thought it was funny you
brought it up and it's a photobook called Dog Face.
It's dog portraits.
There's no text except theirnames it's a photo book called
Dog Face.
It's dog portraits.
It's very.
There's no text except theirnames.
You know so, not a writer.
And you know it sold some.
But they lost money on me, youknow.
So that's.
(23:10):
I can just say, yeah, I madethem go broke, you know.
But I wish in some ways likethat was really cool at the time
, you know, oh, penguin.
But now I would if I was goingto do something again, even
though they don't want me.
But if I was going to dosomething again, I would go the
route you're talking about,because there wasn't a promotion
, there wasn't anything thathelped tell the story, get it
out there.
(23:30):
Now, if it's out there at all,it's in dollar bins at the
grocery store, so you're muchmore successful not using a big
publishing house, so maybe thatwas a good thing, yeah I
definitely think so, because,unless you're lucky, they aren't
going to put.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
They cannot possibly put a load of effort into every
single person that they publish.
It's not physically possible,so you have to.
Even if you're published withsomebody, you still have to put
in 50 ton of effort and I justthink they're taking such a
massive chunk of your money.
Yeah sure, it's just not fair.
(24:08):
So, yeah, yeah, this way thatwas your first book that's
pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
So then, what book came after that?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
so after that was actually the children's book
Merlin Finds His Magic, becauseI was procrastinating editing
the next book, which is the Farmmy Journey Deepens.
That came out a few weeks agoin.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
June.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yep, and that's the follow-on from the Yard.
Okay, I thought it was amazing.
I wrote the Yard and then loadsof people were asking for a
sequel.
How did people get that?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Obviously, you've got something that is resonating,
that's important to share,because people aren't going to
care about it if they didn'trelate to it and gain something
from it.
So you are offering a gift topeople through your books.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
I feel it's part of my service, my therapy, because
the books are very comical,they're very similar in nature
to James Herriot, Bill Bryson.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Gerald.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Durrell, the comedy is first and foremost, but they
do have a very deep theme andthey are helpful for people to
transform their own lives.
So for me it's just anextension of my therapy work,
these books.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
That's great.
What a gift.
Appreciate that.
Let's talk a little bit moreabout the children's book.
How did that go about gettingit illustrated?
The covers of your other books,the artists that did the covers
of the Yard and the Farmthey're just incredibly
beautiful.
She's amazing.
(25:49):
The artwork on merlin is um,really fun.
So how did you they pull allthat together?
Because that children's bookshave to be concise, and aren't
they?
Speaker 1 (25:52):
a certain number of pages and it's like a whole
thing right.
Yes, I had no idea.
I thought, oh yeah, I'll justwrite a children's book, it'd be
really easy.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
I think it's harder, much harder it is.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
It's really hard because, you're right, you have
to fit into a certain agebracket and that certain age
bracket needs a certain amountof words and a certain amount of
illustrations, whereas with anovel you can just go on and on
as long as you like, but youhave to be really regimented.
(26:26):
So again, I worked with aneditor who is herself a very
successful children's author,and she also works for I can't
remember which, but she's a topeditor.
So she absolutely whipped meinto Shake.
But finally it all got togetherand it's been well loved by
(26:52):
adults as well as children.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
That's neat, yeah, so if, how did?
Let's go back a little bit,because I forgot to ask this in
the beginning.
I usually ask in the beginninghow'd this all get started?
Like what made you wake up as alittle kid and go?
My mission is to help peoplethrough animals.
I mean, how did that?
You know, like, how did thesethings happen and can we talk
about?
You know, sometimes I find thatpeople who are so helpful to
(27:15):
other people have been throughsome stuff themselves, that
people who are so helpful toother people have been through
some stuff themselves.
So when someone says I'm hurting, I hurt the person.
Who's listening can go.
I know, as opposed to notunderstanding what that person
is going through.
Like you already have, you'velived through some stuff too.
You can relate.
So if you want, to talk aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
It might be really helpful for people.
So it's all in.
Actually, my childhood miseriesare all in the farm.
Um, because I was bullied atschool and for some reason I
don't know why because myparents were.
You know, it was a veryordinary family.
My mum was very lovely.
My dad, who's a bit distant, asa lot of dads can be, but he
(28:00):
was still, you know, he wasthere, but I never felt I could
tell them what was happening.
So I was bullied relentlesslyfor years until I took an
overdose and wanted to killmyself.
So I suffered from this deep,hideous depression for so long,
(28:22):
from this deep, hideousdepression for so long.
And then, at the same time, Isaw my granddad dying of cancer
and my other granddad died ofcancer.
My grandma died of a stroke anda heart attack and then other
family members died, mainly fromcancer.
There was a lot, you know, whenI looked at my friends who were
not experiencing any death, itwas almost like every few months
(28:43):
I was at a funeral wow and howold are you at?
This time for start said thebest falls in around 12.
Yeah, and continued for a fewyears.
Yeah, so then your?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
whole family was being affected, because your
parents would be affected, youknow, greatly by deaths of
people close to them as well.
So then it's kind of a wholething at the time, right yes, it
was very depressing, hard, butdid you?
Feel oh sorry, did you feellike, since they were going
through stuff, that was part ofthe reason you couldn't talk to
them because, like, oh, they'realready so troubled, or it
wasn't like that?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
no, I just, I don't know.
I just automatically hid what Ifelt, um, and so what I'm
hoping is that in my book, ifthere are any other parents who
have lost a child to suicide, Ihope that they will see it's not
their fault, because sometimes,you know, I couldn't tell my
(29:37):
parents.
But I could have done.
But but for whatever reason, Ichose not to so and it wasn't my
parents fault.
It's just how it was yeah and soit's bad enough to lose your
child to suicide without feelingguilt as well um for sure I'm
hoping to reach people like thatwith my books as well yeah so
(29:58):
so yeah, I had a lot of.
I had a life full of heartbreakand sorrow a real pain.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yeah no, it's a lot on your shoulders for being so
young, for sure so.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
So I feel I got into massage by accident, because my
first work with people wasnormal, like sports massage, and
then that grew because Ilearned a particular type of
massage that is appropriate forsomebody with cancer.
So I then got work in nursinghomes and via hospital referrals
(30:31):
and so then my work just grewnaturally to supporting people
who are dying and because I'veseen a lot of death and felt a
lot of fear and sadness, I'dbeen set up to.
This is my Stoltberg, wow.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Wow, how old were you at that point when you figured
out that this is something I canhelp people with?
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Well, I started my massage work in my early 20s and
I think it was late 20s, 30,that I realized where my work
was going.
And then now I'm 50, I feelit's growing even more in a more
spiritual way, because beforeit was all very physical getting
rid of excess fluid, boostingtheir immune system, helping
(31:19):
them very practically with theirchemo and everything.
But now, having gone throughmore of a spiritual journey
myself, I'm learning more aboutthe fact that any moment now you
know any moment I have to beready.
I could die Like that.
I have to accept that this bodyis just a vehicle and it can
(31:44):
stop at any time.
And it's about finding thatinner peace, to know that you
can drop your body and continue.
I want to help people who arein that stage of fear oh I'm
dying, ah to go beyond that fearand find peace, because beyond
(32:04):
our personalities and beyond ourI want this or I'm afraid of
that, or what you think and yourlikes and your dislikes, beyond
all that piffle rubbish, thereis this stillness and it's
permanently still and it'spermanently there and we all are
it and we all can be it, sothat when our life ends which it
(32:30):
is going to, that's the onlything guaranteed you can go with
peace and, whilst you're stillalive, live in a much more
peaceful way.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Well, that's where the animals can come in the
animals can help find thestillness and being in nature.
I I feel our disconnect fromnature is so sad.
I'm so blessed to live where Ilive.
You know I'm surrounded by thecountryside and I had to go to
the city for work.
It's like 75 miles away.
So when we go in to do theanimal actors and stuff, to
(33:01):
drive into a city and you knowconcrete and buildings and
people and noise, and we go, dothe job and it's all great.
But by the time we come backand we cross back into Wisconsin
from Minnesota and we get intothe rural, we're back into the
rural, I just feel myself go,you know because, and so I
(33:23):
understand how animals, likewith horses, when you're trying
to get in attunement with them,it's letting go and getting into
a place of quiet stillness sothe horse can be congruent, so
you're what you're saying andand trying to be matches what
your body's actually doing, andso getting to that place of
stillness and calmness is, um,great.
(33:43):
It's hard for someone who'slike a border collie with me,
you know, and like to sit stilland not have the this, this,
this, this, this.
You know I'm learning that frommy horses more than I ever did
before.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
And.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I and learning how to breathe, the, the body work.
You talk about things like that.
I think that, hopefully, peopleare getting more information
about how to get there, how toget to that peaceful stillness,
if they want it and then totouch back on the suicide that
you went through.
We've had our own brushes withit and our people that are close
to me and at the time andeveryone is okay.
(34:22):
So this was years ago andeverybody's okay.
That was in my circles.
I'm really grateful, but I hadno idea that this person was
that unhappy.
They did not talk about it.
When I got a warning fromsomebody that knew them and
loved them and said I'm reallyworried about this person, I'm
very concerned, I literally wentto the internet like how do I
(34:43):
help?
And it said the person'sresources aren't keeping up with
their pain.
So they have so much pain thatthe resources aren't keeping up.
You need to increase theresources.
You need to figure out a way.
What do they need?
What resources do they need tohelp diminish the pain?
And so immediately called theschool and said I'm worried for
(35:04):
this person, I'm coming, youknow.
And they went and pulled himout of class and kind of got the
process started to helping theperson.
Because, somebody had noticed apeer had noticed someone their
same age that you know the wordswere coming from them, that
were ideations and I didn't evenknow the word ideation Like
you're so blindsided.
But you know, if the person'snot able because they're, you
(35:28):
know, they're like struggling totell you.
So you're right, it is not theparents fault, it is no one's
fault you know, and so I'mgrateful you're here, I'm
grateful that somehow you musthave gotten some help at some
point, because you're still here.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Yeah, I've got a lot of really, really good help.
Good help.
I met an amazing woman whotransformed my life and thanks
to her that, you know, I usedpart of what she taught me to
help for this, so kind of like.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Your pain was a catalyst to this life where
you're able to be a life ofservice, which we're grateful
for that you can do that a lotof people choose not to uh put
themselves out there and youknow that's just just not their
thing.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, it's not for everyone.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
No, no, and we all have a purpose.
Yeah, no, exactly, and I thinkif you give animals the chance,
they will too.
I mean, people can look at aflock of sheep and not think a
thing about it, but I look atthem and go.
I want to know every one of you, yes, and I want to practice
attunement, which is like if I'mstill in quiet, even though
(36:31):
they're afraid of humans to apoint because of the way they've
been handled, will they comearound?
And if you're quiet and you'restill, it would cattle almost
everything.
Eventually, it is going to becurious, because you're giving
off the energy of I'm no threat,I'm not coming for you, I'm not
(36:55):
reaching for you.
Why do cats always go to peoplethat don't want them around?
You're fascinating, you knowExactly.
Well, that's pretty cool, solet's you have you had written
somewhere about your goal ofhaving a therapy farm.
You want to talk?
Speaker 1 (37:02):
about that a little bit.
Yeah, so at the moment I rentthe land that we have, so it has
limitations, obviously, becauseit belongs to somebody else,
and so my ideal way of life nowwould be if, if I can earn loads
of money from my books, then Ican treat terminally ill people
for free, because obviously Istill I need an income.
(37:24):
Sure, I want, I want to helppeople, because people that are
terminally ill can't work andthey need the extra support and
it's not available.
You have to pay for it, butthey can't afford it because
they aren't working.
It's a cycle yeah.
Yeah, so what I'm hoping for isthat my books will gain enough
(37:47):
momentum so that can be myincome stream, so that I can do
this work for free.
And then what would be really,really awesome would be if I
could afford to buy my ownLondon.
It's very expensive in the UK,especially in Yorkshire, yeah so
, but you know, I really dobelieve that if it is meant to
(38:08):
be, it will happen somehow.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Oh, I'm in complete agreement on counting on things
like that.
I count on miracles every day,so I understand that.
I understand that, well, allright.
Well, I think we're good to thepart of the show where I'm
going to ask some questions.
Well, I've been askingquestions all along, but these
are questions that I sent you.
This is an idea that weborrowed from Tim Ferris's book
Tribe of Mentors, and I sent youa list of 20 questions, and you
(38:35):
picked out the five five ofthem that that we can ask you
about, and so I think we'll justplunge right on into that, all
right.
So one of your questions waswhat book would you recommend?
Speaker 1 (38:46):
and why so?
The book that I absolutely love.
It's a children's book actually.
It's called Can I Get there byCandlelight and it's just, it's
so thought provoking.
But even now, to this day, Istill wonder about that story
and I wonder was it actuallysomebody's real experience and
(39:08):
what really happened there?
And it's just, it's magical.
What's it about?
So it's about this girl whoshe's living in a house with the
parents and she's got a ponyand it's like a coach house
while their new house is beingbuilt.
So she goes riding on her pony,she goes through the estate and
(39:33):
she ends up going through likea portal, I suppose, and she
ends up back in time.
So the old house that's allcrumbling and that actually
isn't really there anymore, isin its full glory.
And she meets this young girlthat lived there at the time and
that actually isn't reallythere anymore, is in its full
glory, and she meets this younggirl that lived there at the
time and they just build up thisfriendship and then every night
(39:54):
she goes back home to her realtime.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
And I don't want to ruin the story because it has
such a shocking ending, but it'swhat's the title again it is
wow, so people can look it up.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
It's called.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Can I Get there by Candlelight?
Okay, that sounds reallyinteresting.
Oh, it really is, it'smind-blowing.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
I'm going to have to look that up.
All right.
What is the most valuable thingthat you've put your time into
that has changed the course ofyour life?
Speaker 1 (40:24):
This thing with my clun forest sheet.
They were so nervy they were Iwill.
There were about eight monthswhen they arrived and they're
particularly nervy breed andeverybody on the sheet facebook
group said that I've made amistake getting them and I'll
never be able to handle them.
And you know, I'm too stupid toconnect with these sheep.
(40:49):
Um, and I just I have to provethem wrong.
So I spent it, took me nearly ayear, but it was worth it
because it taught me absolutepatience, because you can't rush
it with a sheep, you can't justgo and grab them.
Oh no, yeah.
So I have to be quiet, I haveto be calm and I have to prove
(41:12):
to them that I was trustworthyand it's so worth it.
They are so loving.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Oh they are.
Do you know all that?
You know all the secret placesthey like to be scratched, like
under their armpits because theycan't reach, and kind of a
little bit back here and underhere and um, they're so, uh,
people, everyone should have apet sheep, I think yes, I agree,
there's a lot to learn fromthem yes all right um.
(41:40):
What accomplishment are you themost proud of, and why?
Speaker 1 (41:46):
I'm the most proud of being a self-published author
because I could have given up.
You know when all these topagents were telling me that my
book wasn't interesting.
You know nobody's going to wantto read that.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Wow, 20 rejections.
You said yeah 20.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
And that for most people, you just think well,
they know what they're talkingabout.
I'm so glad that I just thoughtactually, no, you're wrong,
People do want these books,Obviously, yeah, so I'm very
glad that I continued.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
When I started being self-employed gosh back in 1987,
I started a file and it sayspeople who said no and are sorry
now and I just put everyrejection into that, you know.
And now, when I'm doing reallywell and everything's great, I
can go back and look Ha boy, arethey sorry they didn't go with
me because we got it going on.
So that helps get through thosedark times.
(42:41):
So I know exactly what you'retalking about.
That's pretty great, All right.
In the last five years, whatnew belief, behavior or habit
has most improved your life?
Speaker 1 (42:53):
I would say that the biggest release that I have is
to know now that I'm more thanjust this personality and this
body.
Knowing that I'm more than thathas helped me to live life more
fully in every way.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
You're talking about transcending when you die too.
Is that what you mean?
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Yes, so that we are not just about dying, but it's
more about living.
Once you know that you are morethan just this body, you can be
free from fear, and so you candare to do more things.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
And fear does hold us back.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yeah, so you can live your life more richly.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
When you refer to that, are you speaking more like
a soul in a sense, how somepeople refer to?
Speaker 1 (43:42):
as a soul, that is endless.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Yes, because souls, you can't see them.
They're inside you, at leastthis is I believe and they go on
forever.
Yes, you know right, I meanthat.
Yes, that's where I'm comingfrom, but it sounds like we're
on the same page yes then yes,you're right, because then fear,
then death, if you know thatand believe that, and then it
isn't as scary I mean, it'salways scary, I'm supposed on
(44:05):
some level.
But you know the work you'redoing with people who are
terminally ill and are aware,cause we all walk around, you
know, blindfolded as far as theawareness normally of of how
we're going to die or when, um,the people that have to face it,
if they can feel that they dogo on, it must be a small
comfort or some comfort,absolutely, absolutely, yeah,
(44:28):
yeah, I also believe animalshave souls, because I, I just
that's how I have to roll or Ijust I can't bear it, definitely
yeah, I mean, they may bedifferent but, but everything,
energy, everything yes, so yeah,all right.
Um, what inspires and motivatesyou to do what you do and what
(44:49):
is your true purpose in theworld?
Speaker 1 (44:50):
True purpose in the world is to help other people.
That's what I really feel, andthe things that help to motivate
me and to do that are all ofthe wonderful animals that I
have in my life.
They are magical and I wanteverybody to know that.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Yeah for sure.
Well, we're grateful and yourbooks are helping people already
.
And now let's let's talk aboutyour TV appearances, cause I'm
with your new book and some morepublicity and cool stuff is
happening in your life and I'mso happy for you.
Tell us about the Yorkshire vetand what that's like being on a
TV show and and where I knowthey can watch it in the UKshire
(45:27):
Vet, and what that's like beingon a TV show and where I know
they can watch it in the UK, andI'm sure that eventually it
gets over across the pond to usand we'll be able to see it, you
know, eventually.
So, but tell us a little bitabout that for people who are
not familiar.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
So, the Yorkshire Vet is all about Yorkshire Vets and
it was based on the fact thatthe first Yorkshire vet was a
guy called Peter who was one ofthe apprentices of James Herriot
.
Peter took over the JamesHerriot practice in Fersk with
his partner, julian Norton, soPeter and Julian were the first
(46:03):
two vets on the show and it'sall lovely, heartwarming.
It's all about helpingdifferent farm animals and
helping domestic pets, so hegets to see all the different
people that own the pets as wellas seeing the pets help the
animals.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Oh, what a legacy they're carrying on, because
everyone knows All.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Creatures.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Great and Small, Now that PBS has the series out for
the new generation which we alllove and watch and relate to.
So it must be quite exciting tobe part of that legacy.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
It is.
It's just incredible.
It really is.
And what I love about my bitsis that because my bits are a
bit unusual, with my sheep beingtherapy animals, you know
they're not just the standardfarm sheep.
So, people are seeing.
Julian the vet experience sheepin a different way as well.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Nice.
So he's been very open-minded.
He loves seeing the sheep, heloves to see that you can cuddle
them, and he's done ameditation with them.
Uh, so it's brilliant, son.
We were filming today, actuallythis morning, um, and it's just
(47:19):
.
It is great, son, although youhave to keep repeating things,
so that's quite comical.
You know, you'll say somethingand the camera woman, she'll say
can you just say that again?
But can you just move your headto that side yeah, the lighting
.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Lighting, you know, is show business.
Yeah, so by the time.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
You've said it about 50 times it can it feel like
acting?
Oh yeah, well, it doesn't withmy bits, because my bits are not
like emergency cases.
When they're out there filmingemergency cases they can't
repeat it.
Obviously it is as it is, butwhen julian comes to my place
and is with my sheep, theythought the luxury is being able
(48:00):
to get everything perfect.
So we have conversations overand over so it.
So I find it quite funny.
Whenever I see Julian on ourown without a camera, it feels
weird to just have aconversation and not repeat it
several times.
That's really odd.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Well, it's interesting that you said it
changes his perspective on sheep, because normally when he's
going to a herd of sheep it's alarge amount of sheep they're
not going to be as trusting ofpeople, maybe as much as a pet
sheep would be and so they'regoing to be more in a stage of
concern and worry, right, youknow, because especially if they
(48:39):
need met, they need helpbecause of a physical ailment.
So they're not feeling goodanyway.
But your sheep, if you're, ifyou're visiting with them, and
they're in good health,everything's fine.
Being used to people wanting tobe with people, that must be
really different for him.
I know my sheep shear teases mebecause my sheep aren't.
They won't sit still whenyou're shearing because they
don't panic, they don't have thethe thing that when you get the
(49:02):
feet off the ground they freezelike normal sheep, will my
sheep go?
uh-uh, you're just, you're justthe sheepshire guy and we can
wiggle and mine are really fatand really big and he's, he's
like hold, still dear, you know.
He's like darn, those darn tamesheep, you know.
But so it must be verydifferent for um the vet to see
(49:23):
them in a different light yes,it really opened his eyes.
He was he was how gratifyinghe's open-minded yes, he's a
really lovely guy and we couldtalk about goats all day long,
because you want to talk about asmart animal now there's, you
know yes, I've told, if yourwater, if your fence can hold
water, it can hold a goat.
(49:43):
Otherwise, your fence is notgoing to hold a goat, and we've
learned that to be true as well.
That's why I won't have them.
Well, I we appreciate that, um,that you are helping people
through your books and throughyour work and, uh, through your
facebook page.
So let's talk about all theways and the best way for people
to get in touch with you wherethey can find your books.
Um, you know, like, kind ofgive me the lowdown on how we
(50:06):
learn more about Grace Olsen.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
So the easiest?
Well, I've got a website,graceolsenauthorcom, and that
shows you all the different waysto buy my books in America and
in England.
I'm available on Amazon as well.
That's the easiest place.
I keep trying to get intoBarnes Noble.
I think the digital version ofmy books are available on Barnes
(50:32):
Noble, but they haven't got myactual books solid books and
Facebook really is the easiestplace to keep up with all of my
lovely sheep videos, and I do alot of singing with my sheep, oh
, actually animals do like itwhen you sing, because of the
(50:53):
way you're breathing.
I love it.
It's a regulated breathing andit's a calmness.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
So yes, there's the sound, but it's also when you're
singing.
You're usually not agitated, atleast most people.
You know maybe some angry rock,but usually you're not agitated
right.
Usually when you're singing,there's kind of a happiness or
or some good feeling coming fromit.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
You know yes, and so um I do think that.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Well, that's my own opinion.
I don't think it's scientific,but I sing to my sheep, so I
know what you're talking about.
I don't know if they like it,but they come around.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
Yeah, they love it, they love it Okay.
Speaker 2 (51:30):
So we'll have all of your links and social media
information on the show notes.
For the empathetic trainer, ofcourse, but the best way is
either through Facebook or Grace.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Olson author.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
Yeah, graceolsonauthorcom.
Okay, well, this has beendelightful Uh, finding another
person who understands howobsessed I am with my sheep and
how much I love them is good formy heart and, uh, I appreciate
you talking about um how um helpis out there If someone is
feeling really, really depressed.
Um, there are, there are placeswhere you can um wherever you
(52:06):
live, hopefully to find someonewho's using animals as a form of
therapy, and, just, you know,animals are so healing, so
perhaps you could seek thosekinds of people out, and if
they're around you, they canseek you out.
So your words of encouragementthat you can get through these
difficult times and animals helpyou do that, it's kind of what
we're all about, so we'regrateful for that too.
So, thank you, Grace, so muchfor being on the show today.
Hi, I'm Barbara O'Brien.
I'm an animal trainer andphotographer and I'd like to
welcome you to the EmpatheticTrainer.
Hello, this is barbara o'brienand you're listening to the
epithetic trainer podcast.
Today's guest is grace olson.
Grace is a therapist, authorand animal lover.
(00:36):
She's written the best sellingbook, the yard, a book called
the farm, and she just publishedher first children's book
called merlin finds his magic.
Grace olson assists terminallyill people to find inner peace
and their true, infinite self.
She's assisted by her horsesand her sheep.
She's been a qualified bodyworktherapist for almost 30 years
and is also an ILM levelcertified coach.
(00:58):
Okay, hello, grace.
Hi, we're so glad to have youhere on our podcast today.
Boy, we have so many topics tocover.
I think you know we'll have tohave several podcasts just to
get through them, but we'llstart with some of the first
things.
One I'm here in rural Wisconsin, so it's pretty hot today.
It's very, very green, very wet.
We've had a lot of rain.
(01:19):
I love talking to people fromdifferent parts of the world.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
So let's talk a little bit about where you are
and what it's like where you are.
So I'm in Leeds and that's WestYorkshire in the UK and it's in
the middle of well, so where Iactually live right now here in
this house, this is closer tothe city, so I'm near a really
lovely place called Chaparlatan.
It's got lots of cafes andthings like that, but literally
(01:46):
five minutes that way is wheremy fields are with my horses and
my sheep and it's justbeautiful countryside.
So it's an interesting.
Leeds is interesting becauseyou've got city and incredible
the Dales, countryside rightnext to each other.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
They have both.
That sounds lovely soundslovely, yeah, um, all of us.
Um, well, certainly my husbandand I were like we love british
television.
I know that sounds so silly,but like we love watching
british television and thentrying to figure out where the
shows are taking place.
Um, and yorkshire certainlycomes up in a lot of wonderful
television, so it's pretty great.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yorkshire is the most beautiful part of England.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Well, I can say that about Wisconsin.
It's definitely the mostbeautiful.
I think my other states woulddiffer, but you know how it is,
that's really neat, all right.
Well, tell me a little bitabout the animals that you have
right now, so your horses andyour sheep.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I have got two horses which belong to me, but I look
after three and I have five petsheep and a dog.
A dog's just there in the citythat you can't see.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I have three, and they're all like right here.
You know, what kind of dogs doyou have?
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Just the other one, she's a greyhound, oh lovely.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
They're kind of cats here.
You know what kind of dogs doyou have?
Just other ones.
She's a greyhound.
Oh lovely they're kind of cats.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Greyhounds are big cats.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yes, Very much.
That's cool.
And so when you say pet sheep,you know now most people when
they think of sheep they thinkthey're really dumb, which of
course they're not.
And they kind of have this ideathat they just stared at
everything, which they have goodreason to be, you know, worried
about their environment, but ifyou give them a safe
environment, they're prettyrelaxed about things.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Tell us about your pet sheep.
So my pet sheep, they're alllittle boys, all of them were
destined to be on people'sdinner plates, but they came to
me for various different reasonsand they're just amazing and
their therapy sheet and they'vebeen on the television and they
help.
I mainly work for people whoare terminally ill.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
So they do a lot of good work, making people feel
happier in their worst time oftheir lives.
So what is it about sheep thatmakes them good therapy animals?
I mean, I know that I go sitwith mine and I sit with them
and, like our heart rates startto match and I relax and I get
calm.
But most people don't have thatopportunity.
So what made you decide?
You know sheep could probablywork really well to help people.
Please tell me how that started, what that story is about.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Well, it was an accident.
So the associates that I gotwere a pair called Bambi and
Merlin, and so what happened wasI was doing a therapy session
for this lady.
She was so depressed, it wasawful, and so the therapy
session was with my horses,because I do equine assisted
coaching, and then, out ofcorner of my eye, you could see
(04:49):
merlin, and it seemed pretty, sobent and just know, you were
just being say, can do thatbetter than those horses, and he
just, he just walked up and hepushed himself into the woman
and so she bent down to cuddlehim and she laughed and she
hadn't laughed for a yearbecause she was extremely
(05:10):
depressed.
She wasn't so nearly ill, shehad other problems, and so
that's how sheep therapyhappened, because Merlin decided
he was going to make it happen.
I believe, that, yeah, they'reso wise, they know how to be
with each person.
I've noticed, because with somepeople they're just, they're a
(05:31):
bit, they can be a bit rough youknow they're sort of they're a
bit head bussy, but not massive,just having a laugh, because
with other people they're verygentle and very calm and so they
they give what the person needs.
I believe that.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I have seven pet sheep Humphrey Bogart, Ingrid
Bergman, Jimmy Stewart, GaryCooper, Jean Arthur and then
there's a giant suffolk and hername is Lady Margaret, because
she's the boss of everybody, andthen a really old one now named
Beatrice, who's like thefriendliest one, but I
understand that completely andpeople.
(06:08):
I've been learning aboutcalming signals in horses, how
horses show stress and how theyshow a release of stress, and
how horses communicate.
Every action an animal does iscommunication.
So I've been learning howhorses communicate more and more
, although I've been a lifelonghorse person and then I started
to apply the same principles tothe sheep and I'm sure, as a
(06:29):
person who's aware of your sheepand how they act and behave,
you've seen the same things.
So it makes sense to me whatyou're talking about, how a
sheep that is acclimated tohumans and doesn't have a fear
of them because they've beenproperly socialized would
definitely be able to come upand kind of read that person's
energy and then decide how to bearound them, just like horses
(06:51):
do.
Do I need to fear you?
Am I going to be comfortablewith you?
What do you need from me?
I mean whoever looks at a sheepand thinks the sheep might be
going.
What do you need from me?
But in a way, from yourexperience, that seems to be
what's happening.
Correct, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Absolutely, that's exactly what they're thinking.
Yeah, so it's just so in tune.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Well, I noticed that horses will lick their lips when
they're regulating themselvesagain and that had to do with
blood flow rushing to theirmuzzle from stress, and then the
release of stress makes themwant to lick their lips and
salivate and things likesalivate Can't think of the word
, but I never thought about ituntil I started studying it and
(07:35):
the sheep do the same thing.
So when something scares them,and then they regulate again,
like oh, we're okay, they lickand chew just like a horse.
And I thought well, they againlike oh, we're okay, they lick
and chew just like a horse.
And I thought well, they'reboth prey animals.
That makes perfect sense.
So that was really interestingto me to watch that.
And then how they communicatewith each other as herd animals
and, you know, move in a group.
So the, the head butting the aslike, um, I'm trying to get
(07:59):
your attention.
That makes perfect.
You know the sense to me.
And if they wanted to hurt you,they they certainly could.
If they have horns, if they'requite large.
But it sounds like your sheepare so acclimated and probably
just wonderful souls.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
They are.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
They are very special souls.
Yeah, one more thing about thelick-lipping.
Lick-lipping Okay, start overagain Lip-licking.
I noticed it in chickens.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I had no idea.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I have chickens but I'm raising a new flock and I'm
using attunement with them, soI'm teaching them to like, be
used to me and want to be aroundme, and kind of a consent, like
the chicken has a choice.
Does that make sense?
that's great when, when they getnervous and something happens.
The chickens do the same thing,and I didn't know birds I
haven't studied birds at all sogotta talk to a chicken person
(08:48):
about that one someday.
Yes, but all kinds of mammalsand birds probably can work as
therapy animals if we let themabsolutely definitely so how
does it work with horses?
When you say you're a coachwith horses, how does that work?
Speaker 1 (09:05):
So that was in the ILM coaching course that I did.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
They included learning ILM, just so that
people don't know what thatmeans.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
It's International Leadership and Mentoring.
It's an English certificationfor coaching.
Sorry, the Institute ofLeadership and Mentoring
coaching.
Okay, I'm sorry, the instituteof leadership and mental and um,
uh, so part of that course waslearning horse body language in
relationship to somebody havingtherapy.
(09:34):
So somebody say is there withthe horse and the horse
basically helps you to see whatthe person isn't saying through
their reaction to the person,not necessarily mirroring the
person, but just reacting to theperson.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Can you give us an example I mean, you know, of a
story that anonymous, but canyou give us an example of what
you mean by that, so that ifyou're not a horse person you
have kind of an understandingwhat you mean by?
Speaker 1 (10:05):
that, so that if you're not a horse person, you
have kind of an understanding.
So one of the most, uh,remarkable sessions I ever had
was, um, this lady came for somecoaching.
She is an artist and has a lotof self-doubts and she'd also
been very badly bullied by herhusband and she'd been bullied
at school.
So she had a history of justlow, very low self-esteem.
(10:28):
And so to build up herself-esteem, um, I set up an
optical course in our littleschool and I invited her to go
around it with our most chilledout, wonderful, lovely horse.
Who's this?
It was a really old man, he'sactually he's in my books, this
(10:50):
particular horse, and he isusually the most kind, chilled
out, easy to be with animal.
And yet with her he kept bashingher, pushing her out of the way
, and he was behaving like I'dnever, ever, seen him behave
like that ever.
And so that's what brought outof her, all of her.
(11:13):
Because I didn't know she'd hadthis history of the whole
history.
I just knew she had lowself-esteem at that point.
But he showed me she has noboundaries, nothing.
So he couldn't respect her as aleader and he couldn't allow
her to take him around thisobstacle course, because she
(11:33):
didn't have faith in herself,and he was showing that up by
bashing her and being able tobash her, and I had to step in
because he was going toliterally walk over her, and so
that then triggered theconversation of her history of
really quite horrible abuse,actually, which she probably
(11:55):
wouldn't have spoken about hadit not been for this particular
horse showing her what she was,which was somebody that didn't
have any self-care, noboundaries wow.
So over time, over time, was ithelpful for her to work with him
yeah, it made her thinkdifferently about herself and
(12:19):
yeah, she's now a quite prolificartist.
She's selling more because shevalues herself more and she's in
a much better relationship.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
now she's remarried and her life's different Horses
can do that for sure.
You know all animals, buthorses are really a special gift
that way.
Never mind the cat there.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
That's brilliant.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah, that's Willow.
That's her latest cat, who justcame to live with us, and she's
pregnant, so we don't dokittens, but this will be the
first time in a very long timewe're going to have a litter,
because that's how she showed up.
Anyway, she's telling meobviously you're not paying
attention to me and I needsomething right now.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
And there she goes.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
All right.
So when you talked a little bitabout terminally ill people or
people that are facing crisislike that, how do you find the
horses and sheep help them cope?
I mean, it's got to be aterrible place to know that your
life is going to end soonerthan you would want.
For sure, and you know about it.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yes, and so what I try to do is help them realize
that knowing that they have aterminal illness is actually the
best gift that they could have,because we are all going to die
, and it's better to prepare nowreally, and it's better to
prepare now really, you know.
So the horses or the sheep?
(13:47):
Because the horses and thesheep they're just living free.
I don't force any of them to beinvolved, they choose.
So, whichever animal comes intothe session, the key is mainly
I have to listen first to theperson, because not everybody's
ready for the spiritualrevelations, but for those that
(14:10):
are, then the deepest work I canoffer them is the opportunity
to realize that, beyond ourlimited sense of self and using
our senses, we are infinitebeings.
We're more than this smallness,and knowing that you are dying
(14:33):
is an opportunity to acquaintyourself with what you really
are, so that when you leave yourbody and leave everything here
behind, you'll be morecomfortable.
Not everybody's ready for thatsort of thing, but it is
possible to gain that withhorses and sheep.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Do you find that the horses and the sheep know that
the person is ill?
Speaker 1 (15:01):
I mean I, found that with dogs, I think so you know.
I think they do, because so oneexample is that this lady came
up to our place and she hadliver cancer and my ginger horse
, who's quite aloof, she's notreally somebody that wants to
come and be petted she marchedstraight over to this woman and
(15:24):
put her nose on where thiswoman's liver is, so she went
straight for where the tumor was.
So whether she can, whetherthey have a smell, which they
potentially, you know, I imaginethere is a smell, but whatever
it was, she sensed it and sheknew.
And just that small act of herputting her nose on the tumor,
(15:46):
that woman, she cried, shereleased such deep sorrow and
she died with a smile on herface.
So her family let me know shehad an amazing death wow, well,
I do believe horses can smellthings.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
I've just learned this summer that their factory
system is as good asver, and oneday we were doing a job on set.
(16:27):
I hadn't used him for a whileand he wouldn't work.
He just wouldn't work.
He kept wanting to go back tohis owner and normally he loved
the job.
It was like the most fun in theworld.
You know, you get treats andit's like attention.
But he could not leave hisowner's side.
And um, it was so strange anduh, I said you know, dog is done
, you know we got enough.
And they didn't.
I wasn't going to push the dogbecause he was obviously
(16:48):
stressed, so like that's, that'sgood, we're done, you know.
And so, uh, later within a week, the fellow um called me and
told me he had pancreatic cancerand he didn't know, he didn't
know the dog knew the dog waslike I have to stay with you,
I'm with you, I can't be awayfrom you.
Wow, and then you know, sadlynot too long after the fellow
died, but the dog knew and I'veseen that a couple times now, so
(17:11):
like if your dog is sniffingyou weird times ago but, but I
mean just like it's amazing whatanimals tell us if we're
listening, Because, as mentionedbefore and I think I picked
this up from Lockie Phillips,who is a horse person every form
of movement is communication.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
So everything your animal is doing.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
They're trying to communicate with you.
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
All right, let's talk aboutyour books.
You've got quite a you knowthree books out now, and then we
are going to talk about yourtelevision appearances and all
that cool stuff that's happeningfor you.
I'm really excited and happy,but what motivated you to write
your first book?
And let's talk about thatwhat's the name of your first
(17:54):
book and what it's about myfirst book is the Yard how a
Horse Healed my Heart.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
How a horse healed my heart.
And I started that in lockdownbecause I couldn't do my therapy
work.
I had nothing to do and I justI wanted to do something to help
people feel better.
So I went on Facebook and thereare.
You know, there's loads ofhorsey Facebook groups so on one
particular Facebook group, Ijust wrote this little story of
this quite cheeky old horse thatI've been looking after.
(18:24):
She was a really funny horseand it got so many likes and
comments that that made me think, oh, I can do more of this.
So then somebody suggested whydon't you set up your own
Facebook page?
So I did that, and so I decidedevery week I'm going to write a
short story of of how I gotback into riding as an adult,
(18:46):
because I was riding as a child.
Then I had a break and then Igot back to it as an adult and,
um, and it was just so, itbecame so popular.
It was unbelievable.
It was like the stuff of dreams.
People would send me messages.
I look forward to your littlestory every week.
It's keeping me going, and youknow I was getting hundreds and
(19:08):
hundreds and hundreds, literally, of messages.
That's fantastic.
It was wow.
It made me cry, like every daythere'd be several messages
People related.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Obviously you know you were living an experience
that they could relate to.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Yes, it was just wow.
So then I thought, well, whydon't I write a book?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
So I wrote the book and you figured out a way to get
it published and distributed,because that's incredibly hard.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
It was so hard, it was so depressing.
Oh my gosh, because obviouslyyou have expectations, don't you
?
There I was thinking well, it'sso popular on Facebook, it'll
just get published.
So I wanted it to be reallygood, so I worked with the top
editors in the UK.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Oh, that's great.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, they all worked at Random House Penguin and the
Top.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
They were the Top.
Oh, I'm familiar, I mean, withPenguin and Random House.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
So it was hard work working with an editor, but they
really helped me to get thebook into a very, very good
shape.
So then it was ready to submitto agents.
Oh, the first rejection.
It it like a knife in my heart.
And then, and I was so I wasshocked because I honestly was
(20:30):
thinking but why not, why do?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
you not want my book?
Well, yeah, you have a storythat resonates with so many
people especially.
You know, when I was workingwith Penguin and Random house,
it was like how big is yoursocial media, how big is your
following, you know?
Like that was really, reallyimportant, right, and it seems
to me like you had this hugefollowing, all this support, da,
da, da, da um, it seems strangethat they would have turned you
(20:53):
down.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, they're saying that it's just not interesting
enough um, but not horse and sowell, that's what I thought.
So I thought, right, I'llapproach somebody else.
So basically I approached 20different agents and got
rejections from all of them wowso, so, oh my god.
(21:14):
it was so depressing and um.
But I was showing all of thison facebook because, as well as
posting my stories, I wasposting about myself, yeah.
So everybody was saying, justkeep going, ignore them.
And then somebody said, whydon't you self-publish?
And it was like a light bulband I thought, well, yeah, why
not?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
And so it was just absolute, pure luck that I heard
about the company that I'veself-published with.
They're called forself-publishing partnership.
All of them used to work foragain, like penguin and you know
the top so they've worked inthe industry.
They're a group of old men andthey are absolutely brilliant,
(21:58):
the most fabulous.
I don't know if you've everseen the English program Blast
of the Summer, why.
I sort of think they're likethat.
They're just lovely and theyknow the business.
So they produced the book forme and because I already had
such a big following on Facebookand I have actually learned
(22:20):
advertising years ago so I knewhow to market myself.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Oh, that's the key isn't it?
Speaker 1 (22:26):
but that's great.
Oh yeah, um, so the book justflew.
I mean, the book sold out onthe day of publishing.
Um, yeah, the day of publishing, it sold out.
We had to do an emergency printrun the same day.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
How encouraging for people who want to get the story
out there.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yes, that's fabulous Self-publish.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I actually have a book that was published in 2014
by Penguin Random House that'swhy I thought it was funny you
brought it up and it's a photobook called Dog Face.
It's dog portraits.
There's no text except theirnames it's a photo book called
Dog Face.
It's dog portraits.
It's very.
There's no text except theirnames.
You know so, not a writer.
And you know it sold some.
But they lost money on me, youknow.
So that's.
(23:10):
I can just say, yeah, I madethem go broke, you know.
But I wish in some ways likethat was really cool at the time
, you know, oh, penguin.
But now I would if I was goingto do something again, even
though they don't want me.
But if I was going to dosomething again, I would go the
route you're talking about,because there wasn't a promotion
, there wasn't anything thathelped tell the story, get it
out there.
(23:30):
Now, if it's out there at all,it's in dollar bins at the
grocery store, so you're muchmore successful not using a big
publishing house, so maybe thatwas a good thing, yeah I
definitely think so, because,unless you're lucky, they aren't
going to put.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
They cannot possibly put a load of effort into every
single person that they publish.
It's not physically possible,so you have to.
Even if you're published withsomebody, you still have to put
in 50 ton of effort and I justthink they're taking such a
massive chunk of your money.
Yeah sure, it's just not fair.
(24:08):
So, yeah, yeah, this way thatwas your first book that's
pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
So then, what book came after that?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
so after that was actually the children's book
Merlin Finds His Magic, becauseI was procrastinating editing
the next book, which is the Farmmy Journey Deepens.
That came out a few weeks agoin.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
June.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yep, and that's the follow-on from the Yard.
Okay, I thought it was amazing.
I wrote the Yard and then loadsof people were asking for a
sequel.
How did people get that?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Obviously, you've got something that is resonating,
that's important to share,because people aren't going to
care about it if they didn'trelate to it and gain something
from it.
So you are offering a gift topeople through your books.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
I feel it's part of my service, my therapy, because
the books are very comical,they're very similar in nature
to James Herriot, Bill Bryson.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Gerald.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Durrell, the comedy is first and foremost, but they
do have a very deep theme andthey are helpful for people to
transform their own lives.
So for me it's just anextension of my therapy work,
these books.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
That's great.
What a gift.
Appreciate that.
Let's talk a little bit moreabout the children's book.
How did that go about gettingit illustrated?
The covers of your other books,the artists that did the covers
of the Yard and the Farmthey're just incredibly
beautiful.
She's amazing.
(25:49):
The artwork on merlin is um,really fun.
So how did you they pull allthat together?
Because that children's bookshave to be concise, and aren't
they?
Speaker 1 (25:52):
a certain number of pages and it's like a whole
thing right.
Yes, I had no idea.
I thought, oh yeah, I'll justwrite a children's book, it'd be
really easy.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
I think it's harder, much harder it is.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
It's really hard because, you're right, you have
to fit into a certain agebracket and that certain age
bracket needs a certain amountof words and a certain amount of
illustrations, whereas with anovel you can just go on and on
as long as you like, but youhave to be really regimented.
(26:26):
So again, I worked with aneditor who is herself a very
successful children's author,and she also works for I can't
remember which, but she's a topeditor.
So she absolutely whipped meinto Shake.
But finally it all got togetherand it's been well loved by
(26:52):
adults as well as children.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
That's neat, yeah, so if, how did?
Let's go back a little bit,because I forgot to ask this in
the beginning.
I usually ask in the beginninghow'd this all get started?
Like what made you wake up as alittle kid and go?
My mission is to help peoplethrough animals.
I mean, how did that?
You know, like, how did thesethings happen and can we talk
about?
You know, sometimes I find thatpeople who are so helpful to
(27:15):
other people have been throughsome stuff themselves, that
people who are so helpful toother people have been through
some stuff themselves.
So when someone says I'm hurting, I hurt the person.
Who's listening can go.
I know, as opposed to notunderstanding what that person
is going through.
Like you already have, you'velived through some stuff too.
You can relate.
So if you want, to talk aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
It might be really helpful for people.
So it's all in.
Actually, my childhood miseriesare all in the farm.
Um, because I was bullied atschool and for some reason I
don't know why because myparents were.
You know, it was a veryordinary family.
My mum was very lovely.
My dad, who's a bit distant, asa lot of dads can be, but he
(28:00):
was still, you know, he wasthere, but I never felt I could
tell them what was happening.
So I was bullied relentlesslyfor years until I took an
overdose and wanted to killmyself.
So I suffered from this deep,hideous depression for so long,
(28:22):
from this deep, hideousdepression for so long.
And then, at the same time, Isaw my granddad dying of cancer
and my other granddad died ofcancer.
My grandma died of a stroke anda heart attack and then other
family members died, mainly fromcancer.
There was a lot, you know, whenI looked at my friends who were
not experiencing any death, itwas almost like every few months
(28:43):
I was at a funeral wow and howold are you at?
This time for start said thebest falls in around 12.
Yeah, and continued for a fewyears.
Yeah, so then your?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
whole family was being affected, because your
parents would be affected, youknow, greatly by deaths of
people close to them as well.
So then it's kind of a wholething at the time, right yes, it
was very depressing, hard, butdid you?
Feel oh sorry, did you feellike, since they were going
through stuff, that was part ofthe reason you couldn't talk to
them because, like, oh, they'realready so troubled, or it
wasn't like that?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
no, I just, I don't know.
I just automatically hid what Ifelt, um, and so what I'm
hoping is that in my book, ifthere are any other parents who
have lost a child to suicide, Ihope that they will see it's not
their fault, because sometimes,you know, I couldn't tell my
(29:37):
parents.
But I could have done.
But but for whatever reason, Ichose not to so and it wasn't my
parents fault.
It's just how it was yeah and soit's bad enough to lose your
child to suicide without feelingguilt as well um for sure I'm
hoping to reach people like thatwith my books as well yeah so
(29:58):
so yeah, I had a lot of.
I had a life full of heartbreakand sorrow a real pain.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yeah no, it's a lot on your shoulders for being so
young, for sure so.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
So I feel I got into massage by accident, because my
first work with people wasnormal, like sports massage, and
then that grew because Ilearned a particular type of
massage that is appropriate forsomebody with cancer.
So I then got work in nursinghomes and via hospital referrals
(30:31):
and so then my work just grewnaturally to supporting people
who are dying and because I'veseen a lot of death and felt a
lot of fear and sadness, I'dbeen set up to.
This is my Stoltberg, wow.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Wow, how old were you at that point when you figured
out that this is something I canhelp people with?
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Well, I started my massage work in my early 20s and
I think it was late 20s, 30,that I realized where my work
was going.
And then now I'm 50, I feelit's growing even more in a more
spiritual way, because beforeit was all very physical getting
rid of excess fluid, boostingtheir immune system, helping
(31:19):
them very practically with theirchemo and everything.
But now, having gone throughmore of a spiritual journey
myself, I'm learning more aboutthe fact that any moment now you
know any moment I have to beready.
I could die Like that.
I have to accept that this bodyis just a vehicle and it can
(31:44):
stop at any time.
And it's about finding thatinner peace, to know that you
can drop your body and continue.
I want to help people who arein that stage of fear oh I'm
dying, ah to go beyond that fearand find peace, because beyond
(32:04):
our personalities and beyond ourI want this or I'm afraid of
that, or what you think and yourlikes and your dislikes, beyond
all that piffle rubbish, thereis this stillness and it's
permanently still and it'spermanently there and we all are
it and we all can be it, sothat when our life ends which it
(32:30):
is going to, that's the onlything guaranteed you can go with
peace and, whilst you're stillalive, live in a much more
peaceful way.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Well, that's where the animals can come in the
animals can help find thestillness and being in nature.
I I feel our disconnect fromnature is so sad.
I'm so blessed to live where Ilive.
You know I'm surrounded by thecountryside and I had to go to
the city for work.
It's like 75 miles away.
So when we go in to do theanimal actors and stuff, to
(33:01):
drive into a city and you knowconcrete and buildings and
people and noise, and we go, dothe job and it's all great.
But by the time we come backand we cross back into Wisconsin
from Minnesota and we get intothe rural, we're back into the
rural, I just feel myself go,you know because, and so I
(33:23):
understand how animals, likewith horses, when you're trying
to get in attunement with them,it's letting go and getting into
a place of quiet stillness sothe horse can be congruent, so
you're what you're saying andand trying to be matches what
your body's actually doing, andso getting to that place of
stillness and calmness is, um,great.
(33:43):
It's hard for someone who'slike a border collie with me,
you know, and like to sit stilland not have the this, this,
this, this, this.
You know I'm learning that frommy horses more than I ever did
before.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
And.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I and learning how to breathe, the, the body work.
You talk about things like that.
I think that, hopefully, peopleare getting more information
about how to get there, how toget to that peaceful stillness,
if they want it and then totouch back on the suicide that
you went through.
We've had our own brushes withit and our people that are close
to me and at the time andeveryone is okay.
(34:22):
So this was years ago andeverybody's okay.
That was in my circles.
I'm really grateful, but I hadno idea that this person was
that unhappy.
They did not talk about it.
When I got a warning fromsomebody that knew them and
loved them and said I'm reallyworried about this person, I'm
very concerned, I literally wentto the internet like how do I
(34:43):
help?
And it said the person'sresources aren't keeping up with
their pain.
So they have so much pain thatthe resources aren't keeping up.
You need to increase theresources.
You need to figure out a way.
What do they need?
What resources do they need tohelp diminish the pain?
And so immediately called theschool and said I'm worried for
(35:04):
this person, I'm coming, youknow.
And they went and pulled himout of class and kind of got the
process started to helping theperson.
Because, somebody had noticed apeer had noticed someone their
same age that you know the wordswere coming from them, that
were ideations and I didn't evenknow the word ideation Like
you're so blindsided.
But you know, if the person'snot able because they're, you
(35:28):
know, they're like struggling totell you.
So you're right, it is not theparents fault, it is no one's
fault you know, and so I'mgrateful you're here, I'm
grateful that somehow you musthave gotten some help at some
point, because you're still here.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Yeah, I've got a lot of really, really good help.
Good help.
I met an amazing woman whotransformed my life and thanks
to her that, you know, I usedpart of what she taught me to
help for this, so kind of like.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Your pain was a catalyst to this life where
you're able to be a life ofservice, which we're grateful
for that you can do that a lotof people choose not to uh put
themselves out there and youknow that's just just not their
thing.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, it's not for everyone.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
No, no, and we all have a purpose.
Yeah, no, exactly, and I thinkif you give animals the chance,
they will too.
I mean, people can look at aflock of sheep and not think a
thing about it, but I look atthem and go.
I want to know every one of you, yes, and I want to practice
attunement, which is like if I'mstill in quiet, even though
(36:31):
they're afraid of humans to apoint because of the way they've
been handled, will they comearound?
And if you're quiet and you'restill, it would cattle almost
everything.
Eventually, it is going to becurious, because you're giving
off the energy of I'm no threat,I'm not coming for you, I'm not
(36:55):
reaching for you.
Why do cats always go to peoplethat don't want them around?
You're fascinating, you knowExactly.
Well, that's pretty cool, solet's you have you had written
somewhere about your goal ofhaving a therapy farm.
You want to talk?
Speaker 1 (37:02):
about that a little bit.
Yeah, so at the moment I rentthe land that we have, so it has
limitations, obviously, becauseit belongs to somebody else,
and so my ideal way of life nowwould be if, if I can earn loads
of money from my books, then Ican treat terminally ill people
for free, because obviously Istill I need an income.
(37:24):
Sure, I want, I want to helppeople, because people that are
terminally ill can't work andthey need the extra support and
it's not available.
You have to pay for it, butthey can't afford it because
they aren't working.
It's a cycle yeah.
Yeah, so what I'm hoping for isthat my books will gain enough
(37:47):
momentum so that can be myincome stream, so that I can do
this work for free.
And then what would be really,really awesome would be if I
could afford to buy my ownLondon.
It's very expensive in the UK,especially in Yorkshire, yeah so
, but you know, I really dobelieve that if it is meant to
(38:08):
be, it will happen somehow.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Oh, I'm in complete agreement on counting on things
like that.
I count on miracles every day,so I understand that.
I understand that, well, allright.
Well, I think we're good to thepart of the show where I'm
going to ask some questions.
Well, I've been askingquestions all along, but these
are questions that I sent you.
This is an idea that weborrowed from Tim Ferris's book
Tribe of Mentors, and I sent youa list of 20 questions, and you
(38:35):
picked out the five five ofthem that that we can ask you
about, and so I think we'll justplunge right on into that, all
right.
So one of your questions waswhat book would you recommend?
Speaker 1 (38:46):
and why so?
The book that I absolutely love.
It's a children's book actually.
It's called Can I Get there byCandlelight and it's just, it's
so thought provoking.
But even now, to this day, Istill wonder about that story
and I wonder was it actuallysomebody's real experience and
(39:08):
what really happened there?
And it's just, it's magical.
What's it about?
So it's about this girl whoshe's living in a house with the
parents and she's got a ponyand it's like a coach house
while their new house is beingbuilt.
So she goes riding on her pony,she goes through the estate and
(39:33):
she ends up going through likea portal, I suppose, and she
ends up back in time.
So the old house that's allcrumbling and that actually
isn't really there anymore, isin its full glory.
And she meets this young girlthat lived there at the time and
that actually isn't reallythere anymore, is in its full
glory, and she meets this younggirl that lived there at the
time and they just build up thisfriendship and then every night
(39:54):
she goes back home to her realtime.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
And I don't want to ruin the story because it has
such a shocking ending, but it'swhat's the title again it is
wow, so people can look it up.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
It's called.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Can I Get there by Candlelight?
Okay, that sounds reallyinteresting.
Oh, it really is, it'smind-blowing.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
I'm going to have to look that up.
All right.
What is the most valuable thingthat you've put your time into
that has changed the course ofyour life?
Speaker 1 (40:24):
This thing with my clun forest sheet.
They were so nervy they were Iwill.
There were about eight monthswhen they arrived and they're
particularly nervy breed andeverybody on the sheet facebook
group said that I've made amistake getting them and I'll
never be able to handle them.
And you know, I'm too stupid toconnect with these sheep.
(40:49):
Um, and I just I have to provethem wrong.
So I spent it, took me nearly ayear, but it was worth it
because it taught me absolutepatience, because you can't rush
it with a sheep, you can't justgo and grab them.
Oh no, yeah.
So I have to be quiet, I haveto be calm and I have to prove
(41:12):
to them that I was trustworthyand it's so worth it.
They are so loving.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Oh they are.
Do you know all that?
You know all the secret placesthey like to be scratched, like
under their armpits because theycan't reach, and kind of a
little bit back here and underhere and um, they're so, uh,
people, everyone should have apet sheep, I think yes, I agree,
there's a lot to learn fromthem yes all right um.
(41:40):
What accomplishment are you themost proud of, and why?
Speaker 1 (41:46):
I'm the most proud of being a self-published author
because I could have given up.
You know when all these topagents were telling me that my
book wasn't interesting.
You know nobody's going to wantto read that.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Wow, 20 rejections.
You said yeah 20.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
And that for most people, you just think well,
they know what they're talkingabout.
I'm so glad that I just thoughtactually, no, you're wrong,
People do want these books,Obviously, yeah, so I'm very
glad that I continued.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
When I started being self-employed gosh back in 1987,
I started a file and it sayspeople who said no and are sorry
now and I just put everyrejection into that, you know.
And now, when I'm doing reallywell and everything's great, I
can go back and look Ha boy, arethey sorry they didn't go with
me because we got it going on.
So that helps get through thosedark times.
(42:41):
So I know exactly what you'retalking about.
That's pretty great, All right.
In the last five years, whatnew belief, behavior or habit
has most improved your life?
Speaker 1 (42:53):
I would say that the biggest release that I have is
to know now that I'm more thanjust this personality and this
body.
Knowing that I'm more than thathas helped me to live life more
fully in every way.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
You're talking about transcending when you die too.
Is that what you mean?
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Yes, so that we are not just about dying, but it's
more about living.
Once you know that you are morethan just this body, you can be
free from fear, and so you candare to do more things.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
And fear does hold us back.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yeah, so you can live your life more richly.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
When you refer to that, are you speaking more like
a soul in a sense, how somepeople refer to?
Speaker 1 (43:42):
as a soul, that is endless.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Yes, because souls, you can't see them.
They're inside you, at leastthis is I believe and they go on
forever.
Yes, you know right, I meanthat.
Yes, that's where I'm comingfrom, but it sounds like we're
on the same page yes then yes,you're right, because then fear,
then death, if you know thatand believe that, and then it
isn't as scary I mean, it'salways scary, I'm supposed on
(44:05):
some level.
But you know the work you'redoing with people who are
terminally ill and are aware,cause we all walk around, you
know, blindfolded as far as theawareness normally of of how
we're going to die or when, um,the people that have to face it,
if they can feel that they dogo on, it must be a small
comfort or some comfort,absolutely, absolutely, yeah,
(44:28):
yeah, I also believe animalshave souls, because I, I just
that's how I have to roll or Ijust I can't bear it, definitely
yeah, I mean, they may bedifferent but, but everything,
energy, everything yes, so yeah,all right.
Um, what inspires and motivatesyou to do what you do and what
(44:49):
is your true purpose in theworld?
Speaker 1 (44:50):
True purpose in the world is to help other people.
That's what I really feel, andthe things that help to motivate
me and to do that are all ofthe wonderful animals that I
have in my life.
They are magical and I wanteverybody to know that.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Yeah for sure.
Well, we're grateful and yourbooks are helping people already
.
And now let's let's talk aboutyour TV appearances, cause I'm
with your new book and some morepublicity and cool stuff is
happening in your life and I'mso happy for you.
Tell us about the Yorkshire vetand what that's like being on a
TV show and and where I knowthey can watch it in the UKshire
(45:27):
Vet, and what that's like beingon a TV show and where I know
they can watch it in the UK, andI'm sure that eventually it
gets over across the pond to usand we'll be able to see it, you
know, eventually.
So, but tell us a little bitabout that for people who are
not familiar.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
So, the Yorkshire Vet is all about Yorkshire Vets and
it was based on the fact thatthe first Yorkshire vet was a
guy called Peter who was one ofthe apprentices of James Herriot
.
Peter took over the JamesHerriot practice in Fersk with
his partner, julian Norton, soPeter and Julian were the first
(46:03):
two vets on the show and it'sall lovely, heartwarming.
It's all about helpingdifferent farm animals and
helping domestic pets, so hegets to see all the different
people that own the pets as wellas seeing the pets help the
animals.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Oh, what a legacy they're carrying on, because
everyone knows All.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Creatures.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Great and Small, Now that PBS has the series out for
the new generation which we alllove and watch and relate to.
So it must be quite exciting tobe part of that legacy.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
It is.
It's just incredible.
It really is.
And what I love about my bitsis that because my bits are a
bit unusual, with my sheep beingtherapy animals, you know
they're not just the standardfarm sheep.
So, people are seeing.
Julian the vet experience sheepin a different way as well.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Nice.
So he's been very open-minded.
He loves seeing the sheep, heloves to see that you can cuddle
them, and he's done ameditation with them.
Uh, so it's brilliant, son.
We were filming today, actuallythis morning, um, and it's just
(47:19):
.
It is great, son, although youhave to keep repeating things,
so that's quite comical.
You know, you'll say somethingand the camera woman, she'll say
can you just say that again?
But can you just move your headto that side yeah, the lighting
.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Lighting, you know, is show business.
Yeah, so by the time.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
You've said it about 50 times it can it feel like
acting?
Oh yeah, well, it doesn't withmy bits, because my bits are not
like emergency cases.
When they're out there filmingemergency cases they can't
repeat it.
Obviously it is as it is, butwhen julian comes to my place
and is with my sheep, theythought the luxury is being able
(48:00):
to get everything perfect.
So we have conversations overand over so it.
So I find it quite funny.
Whenever I see Julian on ourown without a camera, it feels
weird to just have aconversation and not repeat it
several times.
That's really odd.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Well, it's interesting that you said it
changes his perspective on sheep, because normally when he's
going to a herd of sheep it's alarge amount of sheep they're
not going to be as trusting ofpeople, maybe as much as a pet
sheep would be and so they'regoing to be more in a stage of
concern and worry, right, youknow, because especially if they
(48:39):
need met, they need helpbecause of a physical ailment.
So they're not feeling goodanyway.
But your sheep, if you're, ifyou're visiting with them, and
they're in good health,everything's fine.
Being used to people wanting tobe with people, that must be
really different for him.
I know my sheep shear teases mebecause my sheep aren't.
They won't sit still whenyou're shearing because they
don't panic, they don't have thethe thing that when you get the
(49:02):
feet off the ground they freezelike normal sheep, will my
sheep go?
uh-uh, you're just, you're justthe sheepshire guy and we can
wiggle and mine are really fatand really big and he's, he's
like hold, still dear, you know.
He's like darn, those darn tamesheep, you know.
But so it must be verydifferent for um the vet to see
(49:23):
them in a different light yes,it really opened his eyes.
He was he was how gratifyinghe's open-minded yes, he's a
really lovely guy and we couldtalk about goats all day long,
because you want to talk about asmart animal now there's, you
know yes, I've told, if yourwater, if your fence can hold
water, it can hold a goat.
(49:43):
Otherwise, your fence is notgoing to hold a goat, and we've
learned that to be true as well.
That's why I won't have them.
Well, I we appreciate that, um,that you are helping people
through your books and throughyour work and, uh, through your
facebook page.
So let's talk about all theways and the best way for people
to get in touch with you wherethey can find your books.
Um, you know, like, kind ofgive me the lowdown on how we
(50:06):
learn more about Grace Olsen.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
So the easiest?
Well, I've got a website,graceolsenauthorcom, and that
shows you all the different waysto buy my books in America and
in England.
I'm available on Amazon as well.
That's the easiest place.
I keep trying to get intoBarnes Noble.
I think the digital version ofmy books are available on Barnes
(50:32):
Noble, but they haven't got myactual books solid books and
Facebook really is the easiestplace to keep up with all of my
lovely sheep videos, and I do alot of singing with my sheep, oh
, actually animals do like itwhen you sing, because of the
(50:53):
way you're breathing.
I love it.
It's a regulated breathing andit's a calmness.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
So yes, there's the sound, but it's also when you're
singing.
You're usually not agitated, atleast most people.
You know maybe some angry rock,but usually you're not agitated
right.
Usually when you're singing,there's kind of a happiness or
or some good feeling coming fromit.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
You know yes, and so um I do think that.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Well, that's my own opinion.
I don't think it's scientific,but I sing to my sheep, so I
know what you're talking about.
I don't know if they like it,but they come around.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
Yeah, they love it, they love it Okay.
Speaker 2 (51:30):
So we'll have all of your links and social media
information on the show notes.
For the empathetic trainer, ofcourse, but the best way is
either through Facebook or Grace.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Olson author.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
Yeah, graceolsonauthorcom.
Okay, well, this has beendelightful Uh, finding another
person who understands howobsessed I am with my sheep and
how much I love them is good formy heart and, uh, I appreciate
you talking about um how um helpis out there If someone is
feeling really, really depressed.
Um, there are, there are placeswhere you can um wherever you
(52:06):
live, hopefully to find someonewho's using animals as a form of
therapy, and, just, you know,animals are so healing, so
perhaps you could seek thosekinds of people out, and if
they're around you, they canseek you out.
So your words of encouragementthat you can get through these
difficult times and animals helpyou do that, it's kind of what
we're all about, so we'regrateful for that too.
So, thank you, Grace, so muchfor being on the show today.
Popular Podcasts
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.