Susan Friedland - The True Story of Marguerite Henry and Misty of Chincoteague S2 E16

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Susan Friedland and I explore the world of Marguerite Henry, a beloved author whose stories have enchanted readers for years. From "Misty of Chincoteague" to "King of the Wind" and so many others, Henry's books have made a lasting impression on people of all ages.

We talk about how much Henry loved horses, especially Morgan horses, and how her stories were influenced by her roots in the Midwest. Susan shares how Henry was kind and caring towards her readers, even writing them personal letters. Susan also had the chance to see original art by Wesley Dennis who illustrated many of Henry's books.

Our chat also touches on how Henry's books have inspired young readers to love horses and how they've brought horse lovers together. Whether we're talking about the excitement of the Chincoteague Pony Penning Swim or the comfort horses can bring, we celebrate Henry's legacy and the happiness her books bring to so many people.

https://www.empathetic-trainer.com/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hi, I'm Barbara O'Brien.
I'm an animal trainer andphotographer, and I'd like to
welcome you to the EmpatheticTrainer.
Hi, this is Barbara O'Brien andyou're listening to the
Epithetic Trainer podcast.
Today's guest is SusanFriedland.
She's an author and lover ofall things equestrian.

(00:36):
Her fascination with MargaretHenry and Misty of Chincote led
her on a personal journey whereshe wrote a book called Margaret
, misty and Me.
Well, we're going to talk aboutthat book and the other books
that you've written, becausethose sound interesting to me
too.
But, boy, margaret Henry, am Ieven pronouncing her name
correctly, or is it Marguerite?

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Very close.
It is Marguerite.
Yes, marguerite, marguerite.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Henry, because, growing up, every horse person
everywhere, everyone I've talkedto when I said I was going to
be doing this podcast has afavorite Marguerite Henry book.
Like they automatically knew ifthey were horse people.
They automatically knew who shewas.
Now that's a legacy all initself if she's influenced so
many people for so many years.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
She has, and what I've found over the couple of
years that I researched to writeMarguerite Misty and Me as well
as it's been out not quite ayear yet I've done some speaking
is that people seem to be inthree distinct camps.
So there are the Misty, thehardcore Misty fans, and I'm one
of those.
And then there is a group ofpeople that just is in love with

(01:43):
King of the Wind is a group ofpeople that just is in love with
King of the Wind, and I met awoman she said you know, her
horse back in the day was namedSham after the main character in
King of the Wind.
And then there's also thepeople who love Bridie the most
the story of the burrow who youknow went into the Grand Canyon.
And so there's like a Misty, aBridie and a King of the Wind

(02:04):
slash Sham, you know, into thegrand canyon.
And so there's like a misty, abrighty and the king of the wind
slash sham, you know group outthere well, there's also the
justin morgan had a horse oh,yes, yes, just so you know that
the morgan world.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Okay, like did you see the movie?
I finally found it online.
We finally got to watch themovie you know what?

Speaker 2 (02:20):
that one I have not seen, but I did see King of the
Wind.
But, um, I'll share with youkind of a Morgan fun fact about
Marguerite Henry.
So while I would and I don'tknow if I'm jumping ahead here,
but I just want to make surethat I say this because I know
how much you love Morgans.
So Marguerite um is fromWisconsin, just like you're in.

(02:41):
Wisconsin.
There, I don't know if you knewthat she was.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
I read your books.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah.
So she was born in Milwaukeeand was a city kid and just
loved horses her whole life andnever was really in a position
to be able to have a horse,until she got the horse that
many of us dreamed of, which wasactually a pony, a Chincoteague
pony, misty, the famousbeautiful Palomino Pinto from
the story.
But all that to say, herhusband was a very hardcore
golfer and they lived in thisvillage called Wayne, illinois,

(03:13):
which is about an hour fromChicago, and so, as you know,
being from the Midwest, ourwinters can be a bit much to
endure and if you're a golfer or, you know, avid horse person,
that's not always the best.
So they would escape to Floridafor a little bit Sure.
And I find it fascinating thatMarguerite, her husband, was

(03:35):
golfing in Florida and shewasn't that into it.
So she, you know, had Misty atthis time, but Misty was a foal
so she couldn't ride.
So she still like didn't reallyhave that connection to be able
to ride a horse.
So she found a polo grounds andshe asked one of the trainers
there if he could teach her howto ride and she wrote a

(03:55):
beautiful black Morgan horsenamed Friday, and so she was a
Morgan fan and obviously JustinMorgan had a horse was her first
horse book that she wrote.
Her first book was supposed tobe album of horses but when she
was looking up all the differentbreeds, the Morgan, really, you
know captured her imaginationthe most.
And the other thing is Barbara.

(04:16):
The University of Minnesota hasher personal papers and I read
hundreds of fan letters toMarguerite and you'd start to
see themes of these letters thatchildren would send and they
wanted to know did she have kids?
Was Misty still alive?
You know all these differentand a common question was what

(04:36):
is your favorite breed of horse?
Oh, and she would always saysomething very general, like
whatever horse you love.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
I can see where she didn't want to say oh, I love
Arabians.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
But I found one letter that said, basically, if
you can find yourself a goodMorgan horse, to me that is the
best of the horse world, orsomething to that effect.
So I think that was her subtleway of saying that Morgans were
her favorite.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
I think so too.
You know how we all you likethoroughbreds and and you know
you have a thoroughbred and Iwant to hear more about him.
But it's like part of it islike what did you start with?
Like the first horse that I gotto actually ride and take care
of was a Morgan right.

(05:29):
And Arabs are my close secondbecause those are the ones I
could afford when I couldn'tafford Morgans.
But Arabs are really cheap, soyou could get an Arab super
cheap right in the 80s, you knowthe after the tax thing changed
and they were dumping Arabseverywhere.
So I couldn't afford theMorgans, which I loved, but
couldn't afford them, and it waseasy to pick up these sweet old
Arabs, and so I have a softspot for both.
When we have a breed preference, a lot of times it has to do
with what we started with, andso of course we're open to new
things.
I mean, icelandics are reallyfun and fjord horses and I like

(05:52):
the small, compact breeds.
That's me.
But I'm sure if you lovethoroughbreds, then warm bloods
and others like that are notmuch of a jump to really admire
them but perhaps that's what youstart with.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah Well, I didn't start with thoroughbreds, that
would have been too much.
I started, um, actually ridingin Wayne.
Um, my family was not horsey,although my mom grew up on a
dairy farm and loved horses.
But you know the old thing withfarmers animals have to have a
job, and you.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
Right, that was the exact word my grandpa did your
cues hay burners.
But anyway so she couldn't havea horse and so you know it just,
even though there was kind ofthis rural and farm ag thing of
being around animals and used tothem, just not the writing

(06:42):
component.
So of course I read books andMargaret Henry books and books
on writing and all of that.
But then my life changed when Iwas around 11 or 12.
And some people who lived inthe village of Wayne, which is
like five miles from where welived, said come on out and ride
.
So I got the privilege to ridea 25 year old chestnut quarter
horse named Jim Dandy, and so myfirst horse was a quarter horse

(07:07):
years later and actually wewere not a very good match.
It was, you know, the blindleading the blind and the whole
thing of green rider, greenhorse.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
And this you know.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
I survived and he did too and he matured and became
something nice for another woman.
But yeah, I'm not sure how Igot into the whole thoroughbred
thing, but I just I love them.
I've had two and they're bothdark bay with, you know, blaze
and just fun and delicate,sensitive flowers.

(07:42):
I'd probably do better with theMorgan or something a little
more sturdy.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Well, depending on the Morgan, they can be pretty
hot too, so it depends, but Ihave the old style, so they're
pretty sensible.
That's really cool.
We have such similar stories.
When I was reading the book I'mgoing to hold it up because I
want everyone to see this book.
Man, I read it and, like Idon't take a lot of time to read
I should read more, but I do alot so I was just reading it,

(08:06):
reading it, reading it.
I brought it on set with meyesterday to read it and
everyone wanted to know about it, because the way you tell her
story makes you feel so goodabout her.
So many of our heroes arepeople we admire.
And then we read later wow, hewas a jerk to his wife, or he
did this bad thing, or you know,our heroes all have clay feet

(08:27):
right, or people that you reallyadmire, and then you find out
they're human Okay, of course,but sometimes they're not the
best humans and you're sodisappointed because you're like
, oh, wow.
But when you read aboutMarguerite, you're like, wow,
she just sounds like asweetheart through and through,
Like her heart was so kind.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
So kind, so kind.
Well, you know, I do think shewas a salt of the earth.
Midwesterner, you know, I'vedone a number of speaking things
from, you know, the East Coastto the West Coast and the
Midwest, and I am Midwesternalthough I spent 25 years in

(09:05):
California.
But I did, you know, a coupleevents in Wisconsin, which is
the land of Marguerite and justthe people are so nice.
I had a woman show up at anevent.
I did, I think it was inWaukesha and it was before
Christmas time and she had madethis felted wool Christmas tree.
Wow, and she gave it to me andI'm like, I don't even know you.

(09:27):
She's like here, this is foryou, and so it just.
And then someone I worked at aChristian camp when I was in
college in East Troy, wisconsin,and a woman that I had not seen
, you know, in 30 years, whoalso worked at the camp, saw a
Facebook thing and she's noteven a horse person really, but
she showed up to see me and so,you know, I think part of it is

(09:50):
you know just where she's frombut also, obviously, good
parenting.
I was an educator for manyyears and so when you, you know,
I would have some students thatwas like wow, that person was a
kid, you know, like an 11 yearold boy that's polite and kind
and thoughtful.
And then you meet the parentsand it's like, okay, this
explains why this person is sowonderful, you know.

(10:11):
So yeah, marguerite, I knowexactly what you're saying
Because I did sort of think thatat the start of my research
like, oh gosh, if I'm reallyinvesting all this time, travel
and all of this into her, I hopeshe was a good person and the

(10:35):
fact that she, you know, farexceeded my expectations and her
empathy and her kindness andthoughtfulness and I know I have
it in the book, but just forpeople who haven't read it yet
it really stood out to me when Iwas at the University of
Minnesota archives and I laidout on the desk all these little
tiny school photos and theywere from all you know, there
was like the black and whitephoto from the 60s and then the

(10:57):
permed hair and funny glassesfrom the 80s and the airplane
70s collars and it was like,okay, this woman had such a long
, um era of people adoring her,and so I started like turning
over the backs of the picturesand if a child wrote their name
and you know, like timmy secondgrade in her cursive that I came

(11:22):
to know through studying herpapers she would write the last
name and so it's like theseweren't just like she cared, she
kept their pictures and, um, I,her last illustrator, a woman
by the name of Bonnie Shields,really shed a light on who
Marguerite was and she's, andshe knew Marguerite in her

(11:42):
eighties and nineties and Bonniesaid and she knew Marguerite in
her 80s and 90s.
And Bonnie said, and she wouldgo to Marguerite's house when
she lived in Rancho, santa Fe,california, and she said
Marguerite delighted in her fanmail and she was always changing
out her office because peoplewould draw little pictures of
characters from the story orjust different letters.

(12:02):
I saw one that was like anillustrated almost like um, fan
fiction, uh, album of horses andit was this beautiful, very
bright color, uh, illustrated ofdifferent horse breeds.
And um a note, margaret wroteback to the child was I love
that so much, it's so special, Ihave it on my coffee table.

(12:24):
And so she just really she was agood person.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
I wish I could have met her, she seemed to really
connect and really care and wantto take the time to be gentle
and kind and good to thechildren that wrote to her or
the people that wrote to her.
You mentioned in your book likeif she was here now in this era
, she'd be like this socialmedia phenomenon, because how
genuine and true she is, butalso how incredibly popular

(12:51):
still to this day her books are.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
If you're a horse person.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
You know who she is Because if you were a little
girl, a little boy, but ofcourse, but you read these.
My friend, my dog trainerbecause we were working on set
yesterday she was working withdogs and cats showed her your
book and she goes oh, oh, Icontributed money, I helped
raise money to preserve theranch, the BB Ranch.
I'm going to go there someday.
That's my goal.
I'm going to the pony penningand it was just so exciting to

(13:20):
see somebody else's excitementabout and of course she's like,
give me the book.
I was like I gotta finish itfirst, um, but she, you know
that's she's, you know in hersixties now.
But it was like and what doesshe ride?
She rides an Arab cause.
She loved King of the Wind, youknow, Um, and so it's.
It's just really, really funbecause you have an instant
connection with these otherpeople, because we have a frame

(13:43):
of reference.
And I know she wrote otherbooks and dog books and things
like that too, of course, but Ithink it was the horse ones.
That, at least in my world,that's what we did.
So I have to show you thesebecause they're my treasures,
okay.
So here's King of the Wind,yeah, and this one I remember
reading as a teenager, like Iwas probably 13 or 14, and uh, I

(14:05):
just Mustangs, I mean, andreading her book about wild
horse Annie.
It just this changed everything.
And then we did a podcast aboutthe Mustangs, um, at theater
Roosevelt state park, and so wegot a chance to see them.
And, uh, talk to Chris Kamenwho is leading the charge to
keep them there, cause that's awhole nother controversy.
But the ponies on Chincote areprotected, they're protected,

(14:25):
but the ones at the theaterRoosevelt state park are not.
They're not under the same lawand they could be, you know,
just gotten rid of, and so thereis a big fight going on over
there right now.
But anyway, this made me fallin love with Mustangs, right.
And who doesn't love Bridie, youknow, right?
And of course, no, no, morganperson is not going to have this

(14:47):
book.
But what a treasure it was tofind Cinnabar, you know, because
I mean, she wrote about otherthings than just, you know,
horses and she had to understandhow Fox.
We live on a farm, so we knowabout Fox and my Fox, where
they're allowed to live herebecause my geese keep them away
from my chickens, so the foxcoexist, as long as they don't
go in the pen, where the geesecan get them and beat them up.

(15:10):
So they can catch a chicken,but they can't get her over the
fence.
They can't jump enough to gether over the fence within the
mouth, so the geese will beatthem up and the fox goes.
I'm gonna find something easier,so anyway, but I love them, I
love seeing them, you, I justdon't want them in with my hands
.
And then of course this one,and I bought this for my
children years ago and I havefour sons and none of them are

(15:34):
serious riders now.
But they all grew up horses and4-H and love them.
And of course I'm a littlebiased here.
But the very best horse in thebook is the Morgan right there.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
Well, I have to tell you a neat story and it's kind
of in the book, but I met agentleman whose name is Ed
Richardson and he was a littleboy who lived in Wayne and his
first job was riding Misty asMarguerite rode her Morgan, and
another boy at the time rodeJiggs, who is actually the

(16:09):
Bridey Burrow.
And so, anyway, I got to knowEd a little bit and went to his
house and he brought out thissmall box, maybe the size of a
coaster, and inside were theselittle I don't even know the
name, really Barbara but likedecorative brass or metal pieces

(16:31):
that would go on the side ofthe brow band of a bridal.
Okay, and it was CP forCleveland Police.
And in Marguerite's writing andI should actually do a blog
post on this because I have aphoto of it, cool, but the photo
, you know there were so manylittle rabbit trails that my
editor was like you can't putall that in the book and I'm
like but people will love thisoh yeah, interesting.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
It's like, yeah, but it distracts.
I did enjoy that every line.
But no, I did enjoy that whenyou would.
You know the little piece.
I mean I enjoyed the whole book, I just oh, thank you that
means lot to me.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
That means a lot to me as I was writing and it's so
hard to be a writer and you're,you know, you're alone, and then
you start wondering, like, am Icrazy?
Like.
But I just thought, like youknow, I was active, you know,
following these Facebook pagesof Shinkatig Pony fans and just
seeing about the you know BBRanch and all this, and it's

(17:28):
like no people still lovemarguerite and her story has yet
to be told.
So, oh yeah, I just you know.
So that was really kind ofdriving me like I thought there
will be so many people justdelighted to get to have kind of
this more intimate picture ofyou know what her life was like
when you read it when you readit, because you're an excellent

(17:50):
writer and you make the personfeel like we are right there at
her desk with her, or rightthere at the ranch, or right
there, whatever she's doing.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
You made us feel like we were sitting there with her
as a friend.
It's such a personal, intimatebook.
I just read a book about EllaFitzgerald okay, and it was a
biography, and it wasinteresting to a point, because
I like biographies a lot and Ilove Ella, right, so that part's
easy.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
I love Ella yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
But it's very technical and it was really
really, really, really aboutjazz more than anything else and
if you were a jazz fan this wasa great book.
But if you wanted to knowreally about Ella and now she
was a very private person sothat might've made it hard for
the author but I felt like Icouldn't.
I had to give up about halfwaythrough because I felt like I
wasn't really getting to knowElla very much.

(18:38):
It was like she played here andshe did this song and she
worked with this guy or whatever, and well written and all that.
Your book made me feel likeMarguerite and I are friends.
It made me feel so close to herand it made me really happy
because her books brought me somuch joy, and not just me,

(18:59):
because everyone you talk toabout her book they all have a
story they want to say.
This book meant this to me it'sso personal.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, thank you, I really appreciate you saying
that.
And I wasn't sure when I setout to discover who she was.
I wasn't sure if there'd evenbe enough material for a book,
but I had been writing for horsemagazines and I have my blog
Saddle Seeks Horse.
I've had for about 10 years andI thought, you know, at the
very least I'll get a few blogposts out of this.

(19:26):
And my background as aneducator, you know, writing is
important to me.
I was a history teacher and Iwould tell my students like you
need to talk to yourgrandparents and you need to
preserve this history of yourfamily, find out what it was
like when they were in middleschool and you know what, what,
how did they get to school, whatdid they do after school and

(19:47):
what did they eat and what didthey do on the weekends.
So I kind of felt this like Iwanted to you know, preserve or
find out what I could aboutMarguerite, while there were
still people around who knew her, and so it kind of motivated me
.
But then I started, you know.

(20:08):
So I found a lot of stuffonline, I spent a lot of time on
Ancestry and then it was justlike the world opened up when I
found the University ofMinnesota has her personal
papers.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Who knew right I'm only like 70 miles from
Minneapolis 80 miles.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
Oh, you got to go there.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
I'm just like who knew that that existed, you know
yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
So it's it's neat to hear your response to the book,
because I thought I would bewriting kind of this distant
third person biography and then,as I was doing this, it was
like that's not my voice.
I have a blogger voice.
I talk in first person.
I want to tell a story, likeI'm just sitting there chatting

(20:49):
with a friend sharing what Ilearned.
I think that's the key.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
That's what, I think, made it feel so personal
because I feel like I got toknow you as well, because you
tell your adventure, youradventure doing this, because I
get that, because we shootB-roll for the stories that
we're telling here, and so I getto go out and film and
photograph and meet people inperson when I can, and nothing
gives me greater pleasure.
So reading about youradventures especially the pony

(21:14):
penning adventure, which I'dlike you to talk about and the
fact that you went and talked toreal people that knew her that,
just like I said, it makes itso much personal than say you're
writing about someone who'sbeen dead for 500 years.
You know, it's just, it's reallywonderful, wonderful, and I
love your historic point of view.
My husband and I met inMinnesota history class, and so
we have a love of history, thatyou know, and my sons are all

(21:37):
historians in their own way.
And, um, you know what?
40 some years my husband andI've been married and we still
will always pick a history siteover anything commercial.
It's like let's go see thisplace, let's go, and the boys
grew up that way too, and sowhen we can tell somebody's life
story the way you did and shareit so people have an
understanding, I think that's agreat gift you're giving them.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Thank you, thank you, yeah, I want to honor her
because she was a very humbleperson and, yeah, so she.
What she's done is.
You know her works are sotimeless and beautiful and
filled with hope and they bringsuch joy, and so I really, you

(22:22):
know she doesn't need me to likehave her memory floating around
there, but I would love tobring more prominence to her
Because, you know, people knowabout the Chincoteague Ponies
and it's like, oh yeah, that wasa great book, but I just I feel
like my last year as a teacherwe had a scholastic book fair
and those were a highlight whenI was a kid.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Oh, I love those, I love those.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
Love those, but there wasn't really anything that I
little girl, Susan, would havewanted to read.
It was a lot of fantasy genre.
I'm not knocking fantasy genre,but it just, you know, it was
like where are the books aboutkids and animals and just some
of these kind of simple storiesthat are beautiful, and you know

(23:07):
that last.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
So yeah, Well, you know, the name of our show is
the Empathetic Trainer and so ifyou look at the other podcasts
and the guests we have, it's allabout being in attunement and
understanding and communicatingbetter with your animals that
they have emotions and they havefeelings and that you know
science is proving that evenmore and more, Cause it wasn't
that long ago when they saidanimals can't feel the same way

(23:29):
humans do.
But that's ridiculous.
They're mammals, were mammals,you know even lizards can love.
Okay, I mean, you know.
So it's like you know there's ashift in the horse world, Thank
goodness, of wanting to be morein tune.
There's been a longer, it'sbeen going on longer in the dog
world with much more intuitiveand kinder methods of working

(23:50):
with a dog to get them tounderstand what you're asking as
an animal actor trainer,everything has to be done where
it's really fun, and so, ofcourse, that's been the theme of
our show is to build thatunderstanding and attunement.
Well, Marguerite was inside ofthe horse's mind and when she
would tell the story and thecompassionate, wonderful
characters that cared for theanimals and then some that

(24:12):
weren't so great to the animals,to show the contrast, and it
was like she was advocating forthese animals way before it was
popular, and giving theseanimals personalities and
feelings.
How could, how could Misty notbe emotional, not have feelings,
not represent something?
She's not a dumb animal, right,and all the things that came

(24:33):
from that.
And so what a gift she gave usearly on, like a messenger of
this way to be with animals.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
And children too.
I you know like anotherhighlight just going through a
lot of her fan mail, it wasfinding a Braille letter and so
she had, even before this pushfor Americans with Disability
Act and all of this andinclusion and special ed she was
looking at she just, I reallyfeel, loved people, she loved

(25:05):
her readers, she loved childrenand so she.
There was a note in the archivethat said that when marguerite
got the braille letter, she thenhad a letter that she wrote,
translated into braille, to thensend to the child, isn't?

Speaker 1 (25:21):
that thoughtful, you know think yeah, like the time
that.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Cause I'm thinking now I could sit there and Google
Braille society or somethingyou know, and it's like how
would you back in that day?
No, you know, that would Well.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
What a thrill what a thrill that child must've gotten
to get the letter.
Because I remember when I wasin junior high I wrote to
Arabian horse breeders who,because I used to read Arabian
Horse World, which had I'm aphotographer now, so that
influenced me as a photographerto see the beautiful photography
in Arabian Horse World, johnnyJohnston and all these other

(25:55):
famous photographers.
Anyway, they would takebeautiful pictures of horses and
you'd see, you'd fall in lovewith particular stallions and
things like that.
So I wrote to Sheila Varian,who bred beautiful, beautiful
Arabians, and I wrote to MikeNichols, who had some of the
grand champions at the time anda few others, elmara, and you
know what Sheila Varian handwrote back.
I mean, can you imagine I stillhave letters from those

(26:19):
breeders, the ones that werekind of take time out of their
day, you know, before a simpleemail.
I mean, somebody had to likesit down, literally, you know.
And then they send me, like youknow, beautiful photographs,
like eight by 10 photographs,and I was just a fan, honestly,
literally a fan.
You know, little kid, I loveyour stallion, he's so beautiful
, I wish to have an Arab likethat someday, you know.
So that was very touching to me, that Marguerite was like that,

(26:42):
you know, and it's just so kind.
I heard someone speaking on a Idon't know if it was a talk show
or whatever, but they werefamous and they were nice and
they said you know what you needto do in life, just give it
away.
Just give it away.
Somebody asks you for something, just do it.
It's not hard, just give itaway.
And I think that's such awonderful precept because I've

(27:04):
been the benefit of that.
People have been so kind to meand I know you do too.
When you can, you do what youcan just to make somebody's day
better, especially children.
Right yes, for sure.
You were a teacher, so youalready know what service is
Right yes, for sure, you were ateacher, so you already know
what service is.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, well, I felt I have to tell you when I was
there with all those schoolphotos you know hundreds of them
and I probably took out like120.
I just took out one file folderbut there were multiple file
folders in this banker's box andI'm looking at all these photos
thinking she kept these and shewasn't with them.
And I was, you know, becauseI've gotten so many of those

(27:43):
little school photos over theyears of teaching and like, okay
, where are all of mine?
I haven't kept them and I loved,you know when I it's so special
to be with these young peoplefor, you know, 185 days out of a
year and see them grow andmature and learn and and just

(28:03):
have fun with them and teachthem things and all of that.
And so I had a little bit ofguilt like, okay, marguerite is
a better person.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Well.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
I don't know where my photos are.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
I didn't keep them all, yeah, but I'm sure you had
a good influence on the, on thechildren you worked with.
I can tell that you were a goodteacher and I'm sure they
enjoyed having you my artteacher from my let's see when I
was a junior in high school.
It was her first year ofteaching and I was in her class
and after I got a, I had a bookpublished in 2014, and she
noticed it and she's like youknow, it's so fun to see you

(28:34):
what you're doing now.
You know it's so fun to see youwhat you're doing now.
You know, because we connectedon Facebook and it was like you
know, I don't know, 30 yearsdifference, you know, and she's
like practically retired I thinkshe retired by the time.
You know we reconnected, but itwas really fun because I said
to her thank you, you were sucha great influence.

(28:56):
Because she let me instead of oh, I had it for study hall and
you have to normally sit instudy hall, but she let me go to
the library because, see,that's where the books were.
You're not allowed to do that,but I'd get a special pass and
go sit in the library, becausewhat would I do in study hall
when I have a whole library infront of me.
So I'm grateful to Kay HoskinsI'm shouting you out there to be
such a great art teacher andunderstand that that's what I

(29:18):
needed was to be with the booksand where I could draw and stuff
, unlike Mr Johansson who saidyou're never going to make any
money if you keep drawing horsepictures on your math test.
He's like stop that.
Oh no.
You don't learn your timestables, you're never going to
make a living.
And I just go well, mrJohansson, I'm making a living
with animals.
And I just go well, mrJohansson, I'm making a living

(29:39):
with animals.
So you know, I don't know, I'mnot doing times tables.
I got a calculator.
Yeah, exactly yeah.
There's a couple of things Iwanted to talk about a little
bit too.
A, your adventure, youradventure that you went on.
I mean, I was reading that andI'm right there with you in the
kayak.
I'm like, oh, what I would giveto see what you saw.

(30:00):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
That was amazing.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Because I admire the work of Wesley Dennis so
incredibly much as an artistmyself, I just you know, not to
that level, but his story, thelife of his pictures.
I wanted to know what that feltlike when you got to see that.
So let's talk about thePonypenning first, okay, so
Ponypenning.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
It is again just like getting to know Marguerite
through studying her for twoyears.
She exceeded my expectations.
Ponypenning did as well, andChincoteague is just a beautiful
small town and you just feelwelcome.
You just you know, I felt likeI belong there.

(30:42):
I didn't feel like an outsiderand I went right after.
So I'm in the Midwest again.
I was in Southern Californiafor 25 years and you know people
tend to not like Californiansfor whatever reason.
But I was like I just feltYou're a horse person, I
belonged there.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
You're a horse person , you're there.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
You're a universal, you know Misty yeah, so, um it
yeah so charming and delightful.
The ponies are so beautiful andyeah it's, it's just wild to see
them.
So I first saw them, so beforethey can do the swim, which is

(31:21):
what is written about in Mistyof Chincoteague, where they swim
from Assateague Island, which,for your listeners who don't
know, it's a wildlife refuge andthere is a herd of about 150,
mostly mares, but about maybe 20stallions, and so every year

(31:41):
when the foals are born,obviously they don't want the
island to overpopulate, so theydo this swim in july, toward the
end of july, and it is a swimwhere the saltwater cowboys, who
are volunteer fire fighters onshinkateague island, uh,
basically, are herding thestallions and mares and foals
through the water fromAssateague Island to

(32:03):
Chincoteague Island.
What a lot of people don'trealize is they kind of do a vet
check before the swim.
So if there's a foal that istoo tiny, or maybe a horse
that's older and isn't lookinglike they could make the swims,
you know, in great fashion, or amare that's too pregnant,

(32:27):
they'll be trailered over, butanyway.
So I first saw them in one ofthe kind of holding corrals
prior to the swim and it was athrill to.
I've never been that close towild horses before.
That would be, exciting and it'slike they weren't, because
there were people.
I mean, it was like they're thecelebrities.
So there's people all lined up,there's like double fence line,
but there are a lot of people.

(32:47):
You would have loved it as aphotographer, people with their
long lenses and taking picturesand just watching the
interactions with.
I saw a stallion mount a mareand then I saw a foal walk up to
a stallion and sniff it and thestallion just kind of looked at
it and I'm like okay, like Idon't you know, in the books
that I read it's like stallions.

(33:08):
Are these you know?
mean territorial creatures andyou just kind of looked at the
foal like oh hey, how's it goingyeah, and um, and I even saw a
couple young ones like groomingeach other and the withers, and
so that was really neat.
And then, um, I connected with,uh, one of the women who is a

(33:28):
force behind the shinkateaguepony registry and she knows all
the names, oh sure, the sires,the dams, the grandsires, the
grand dams, so like that wasjust really cool to stand there
with her and you know, she couldtell me little stories about
each of these stallions.
And there's a stallion therethat she said really takes care

(33:50):
of his women because there's asmaller island and this guy
likes to swim his little bandover to that one because then
they don't have to share, youknow, the grazing resources and
stuff.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
So horses have amazing family units, amazing
yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
So that was really neat.
And then, so the swim came, Irented a kayak and it was about
a 20 minute kayak ride out tothe area which is called Pony
Swim Lane, and so there werepeople on pontoon boats,
rowboats, fishing boats,speedboat, every kind of boat

(34:26):
and a bunch of kayaks obviously,and I don't know, maybe 1000s
of people, sure, probably 1000sof people, and so we're just
this, like excitement is in theair.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yeah, and I'm super festive.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
It reminded me so I used to live in Pasadena.
In Pasadena, California isknown for the Rose.
Parade and so I've been to thata few times and there's just
such a happy excitement andanticipation, and so this is on
a different scale, kind of whatthat felt like.
So then you know you're kind ofwaiting around, but then like I

(35:00):
was tethered um on this line toand we.
What was nice about the kayakis you get up a little bit
closer than the people in theboats because the boats are big.
So the kayaks are going to bekind of like the front row seats
to watch in the pony swim.
That's amazing.
So I had these funconversations with fellow horse
lovers, fellow Misty.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
Right, you talk about that in the book.
It was nice.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
Yeah, and so then when they come through, it is
just like you get chills becauseit's like this is what I read
about in this story and it'sreal, and you can hear them and
they're through the water andyou just see the top part of the
heads and the ears and you knowand like I was so close to them

(35:40):
, it felt like, yeah, my kayakwas swaying, and not dangerously
, but you know, like the water,the churning of the water, just
that energy, all that energygoing 200.
Yeah, so it was just reallyremarkable.
And then they get to the otherside, and then they're allowed
to rest, and so there's somegrass there, so they kind of

(36:03):
graze and hang out, and thenthey do the parade, which I
didn't get to see, which maybe Iwill do this year.
I'm going back to Chincoteague,I'm going to be speaking at the
museum, and so they parade downthe main street in town, and so
it's just like a pony parade.
And then they go there'sanother set of corrals at the

(36:24):
carnival grounds, and so thenthe next day is when they have
the full auction, and there's alot of joy with that.
And it's kind of sad, you know,like I had a weanling at one
point.
I got an Appaloosa, and so thatpart is kind of sad when foals
are separated from their moms.
But you know, that's one of thestorylines in Misty of

(36:44):
Chincoteague is, you know, theyhave to grow up at some point.
So there's just a lot of it'sjust such a remarkable time.
I have a friend who bought afilly at the auction last year
and she's actually a friend.
I met my first year onChincoteague and we met watching

(37:06):
the pony swim back.
So what I didn't realize andisn't publicized in Misty of
Chincoteague, the ponies swimfrom Assateague to Chincoteague.
They have to get back to theirhomeland of Assateague, so on
the Friday of pony, penning weekis when they have the swim back
and there's fewer tourists,fewer people.
So I, my first year, I did akayak for that as well, and that

(37:29):
was remarkable because Barbara,the saltwater cowboys didn't
really have to do a whole lot.
They just, you know, broughtthem from the town up to the
edge of the water and thoseponies knew where they were
going and they swam home andjust to see the delight and the
joy and they, you know, justcavorting around and plopping on

(37:51):
the beach and rolling and it'sjust such a happy, beautiful
thing.
So that's where I met thisfriend who actually lives in
minnesota, her name is margo and, uh, she bought a philly this
past year and a philly the yearbefore and uh, so yeah, there's
people that I don't want to saythey collect them, but it's

(38:13):
because of margaret henry's workthat it feels like that's a
really special thing to have apiece of this history, to have,
you know, a pony and there's,they would announce, like this
pony is a misty descendant atthe auction.
And so it's just, it's veryspecial and I hope listeners, if

(38:34):
they're interested at all theylike to go.
I I will say it's extremely hotand humid and there's a lot of
mosquitoes, and mosquitoes loveme, and so I came home with some
welts, but it was definitely.
I had a full heart and greatphotos and have met amazing
people that I'm now friends withand who knew.
You know, it's like summerhorse camp for adults.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Oh, that's wonderful.
And then now you're going to bespeaking at the museum this
year.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
So that's wonderful.
And then now you're going to bespeaking at the museum this
year, so that's exciting.
Yeah, yeah, I was so writingMarguerite story.
You know, I understand theMidwestern part because that's
my, my background, my heritage.
I understand Wayne, Illinois,where she lived all those years,
that bull meadow, her two acrelittle horse farm, Because, like
, the area is familiar with me,you know, and I get the mindset
and all that.
And then she spent the lastseveral years of her life in
Southern California.
So I get that part too.

(39:26):
But I'm not from Virginia, I'mnot a Chincoteague, you know,
and so I had a little I don'twant to say trepidation, but I
wanted to really accurately tellthat part of the story of the
Shinkateague connection.
And I was so flattered becauselast year during Ponypenny week,
when my book had just launched,I did a talk at the museum of

(39:50):
Shinkateague and a woman who wasa local came up and she said I
just want to tell you I readyour book and you got all the
Shinkateague parts right, oh wow.
I was like phew, okay, good,good to know.
Wow, that's great.
Yeah, and it must have, becausethey asked me to come back and
I'm going to be, speakingWednesday of Ponypenny week at
the museum there, yeah that'swonderful.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
It'll start to feel like you're going home again,
something very special, you know.
Yeah, for sure, that's reallycool.
That's really cool, um, beforewe get to the wesley dennis
question, uh, your experiencereminds me, um, of what happens
here in pepin.
Okay, pepin, wisconsin, is thebirthplace of laura angles
wilder.
Okay, and so a few miles fromme is the log cabin and the
little you know, and there's amuseum in pepin and people from
all over the world visit it andit's really well done, and
Carrie's the manager.
Hey, carrie.

(40:40):
So anyway, laura Ingalls Wilderhas a huge following, as you
can imagine.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
And I bet Marguerite is right up there with her,
because when you talk to horsepeople, everyone knows about
Marguerite.
When you talk to anyone that'sinterested in history at all,
they know about Laura IngallsWilder, right.
And so Pepin has Laura IngallsDays, right, and being an artist
, pepin is about 900 people,okay.

(41:08):
So, and I live in this littletown near Lund as a vendor, I
can have a booth at LauraIngalls Days because it draws
people from all over the place,right.
And we thought, okay, well,because I had during COVID, I
made greeting cards and thingslike that because my business
slowed down so I started sellingmy art more.
So after COVID, when they hadthe festival again, I got all my
cards.

(41:28):
I want to get rid of them.
I'm going to have a booth.
We had no idea how beloved theLaura Ingalls Wilder is.
It's got to be the same way howpeople feel about Marguerite,
because people I couldn'tbelieve how many people came to
do the events.
It's a really fun festival.
They have a website, lauraIngalls Wilder Days, pep in
Wisconsin.

(41:48):
But there's people came andwhere are you from?
We're from Australia.
Their daughters and their momand dad came and they all.
I don't wear this because ofLaura I just have long hair, but
the little girls had braids,right, they all had braids and
they wear the clothes.
The whole thing is dress up anddo the thing and they have
fiddle players and they havereenactors that are doing all of

(42:11):
the crafts and things and, howyou know, cooked over a fire,
very historical stuff, right,and they have contests.
It's very interactive festival,but we couldn't believe the
number of people.
We thought just more local.
No, it came from all over theUnited States and it reminds me
a little bit about what you'resaying about Ponypenny, where

(42:32):
people were so happy and excitedto be there and they'd take the
bus trips up to see the cabin,which is kind of not far from us
, you know, and they hadreenactors up there doing
everything.
So it's like a big deal.
And of course, laura Ingallstraveled with her family all
over.
So there's lots of small townsthat have some form of Laura
Ingalls something going on,because I've been to DeSmet.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
Yeah, that was amazing, right yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
That was amazing, right?
People like the feeling ofbeing able to walk where the
cabin was built into the hill orsee the creek that she talks
about.
And then here we were, the bigwoods in Pepin, and she has
relatives that continue to stayhere and if you go back in the
archives you can see where theirfarms were and things like that
.
So there's a long history, butit's fun to be like.

(43:16):
Well, she was born here, so weget that, Pepin gets that.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
So there's like a long history but it's fun to be
like well, she was born here.
So we get that, Pepin gets that.
That's really cool.
I actually met a distantrelative.
I gave a talk at the MilwaukeeCounty Historical Society and
this woman came up to me at theend and her name was Laura
Ingalls and so I'm kind ofthinking like what?
And she said, yeah, I amactually related and it was like
through Pa's cousin orsomething.

(43:41):
She traced it for me, but fromWisconsin.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Well, they had relatives and they stayed in
Wisconsin and Minnesota.
A lot of them, the relatives,yeah, and like I want to say,
spring somewhere in Wisconsin,but it was southeastern
Wisconsin, southeasternMinnesota.
Forgive me, the lower peoplewould be crazy because I'm
getting my facts wrong.
But it was really fun because Idid not.
I mean she's wonderful booksand stuff, but I was busy
reading the horse books and Ijust didn't.

(44:05):
There wasn't enough horses, youknow.
I mean they were there but itwasn't about horses.
So you know I was reading allthe CW, Anderson and Walter
Farley and you know, all ofMarguerite's instead, and every
horse girl everywhere read everybook they could get their hands
on, right, so For sure.
And these beautiful covers inthe library, you know, when
they're all lined up, I meanlook at that.

(44:27):
So this is a good segue intoWesley Dennis, because certainly
you know his work right here.
So you got to look at someoriginal work or like the.
You know, tell me about thatstory how that felt well, okay,
so this is kind of a two-partstory.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
I did see some of wesley dennis's original work at
the university of minnesota inthe curling collection of
children's literature, but Ionly saw one Marguerite Henry
related art and it was thisbeautiful and I have it on my
blog, if people are reallyinterested in
saddleseekshorsecom, and thenyou could just search for Wesley

(45:11):
Dennis.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
I'm going to look it up.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
Anyway.
So it's a color.
It looks like a sketch, butit's color, but maybe it's
painted.
I'm not an artist, but it's acolor, I don't.
It looks like a sketch, butit's color, but maybe it's
painted.
I'm not an artist, but it's incolor.
And what struck me it's a babysham.
And it's the boy whose name isescaping me Agba, is it and then
the mayor, and so that wasreally special.

(45:33):
And then I didn't realize thatWesley did so much illustrating.
So there's another book, and Ican't think of the author right
now, but the title is Fools OverHorses.
Oh, okay, and I, sincepurchased it, I've been kind of
getting into collecting vintagehorse books, now as a result of
this project, yeah, but I saw anumber of fox hunting pen

(45:57):
drawings and illustrations and Ijust love his style and uh, so
what else did I see there?
He did, uh, what's the johnsteinbeck book?
Is he the one that wrote thered pony?
oh yes, or okay, so he, therewas something also in color
there.
And what's really cool, barbara, if any of your listeners are

(46:17):
near you or not far fromMinneapolis, it's an academic
library but it's open to thepublic by appointment.
So if you were also aMarguerite Henry or a Wesley
Dennis fan and you wanted tospend some time and look at old
documents and photos and art,you would just have to go on the
website and, you know, connectwith them and arrange for that
to happen.

(46:37):
It's really neat, but okay.
So here's where the cool parthappens.
So there's a website dedicatedto Wesley Dennis art and I
started looking at it and then Ifound the name of the woman who
runs it.
Sure, and she, you know it's aside passion project.
She's a physician, she's anobstetrician actually, and so,

(47:00):
anyway, she's in Indiana.
She invited me to come see herWesley Dennis collection and so
she has.
I think it's about 120.
The cover you just held up ofKing of the Wind I've seen that
framed hanging in her house.
A lot of those covers, yeah,how big.
Seen that framed hanging in herhouse that is amazing A lot of
those covered.
Yeah, how big were thesepictures, then how big was the

(47:23):
that one?
I mean, I'm terrible, I wouldBigger than this, though, right,
oh yeah yeah, bigger.
I mean not giant like.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
Well, no, because they're illustrations for a book
, so he wouldn't have beenmaking them that big.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
Yeah, but like the, the five o'clock charlie, the
story about the workhorse, someof those misty and stormy, and I
would encourage um, I haveanother uh blog post about that
about visiting her art and shewas just a delight and spent
three hours with us and againI'm thinking like the kindness
of marguerite, like this persondoesn't really know me at all

(47:57):
and she invited me into her homeand spent time, you know.
so I got to hear how she startedcollecting and it was a.
I won't go into all the details, but basically she found.
She thought you know I loveWesley Dunn's art, maybe I can
find it online.
So she found a painting,messaged the seller and asked do
you have more of this?
Because it wasn't really theone that she would have loved to

(48:19):
have the most.
And the seller responded Ithink you need to come to
Virginia.
And it was like a family memberthat had all this art and wasn't
really sure what to do with it,yeah sure, sure, sure, what,

(48:45):
what to do, and you know, yeah,sure, sure, so, so she's um
really very interested in, and Iwould say like a
preservationist, you know it's,it's for her own joy, right and
personal collection, but shejust loves it and just wants to
make sure that you know, knowthat stuff is taken care of the
right way, you know, so that itlasts, which is really cool.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
I thought it was interesting in your book when
she was looking for anillustrator in the beginning of
when she was first writing thebooks, and Will James was
mentioned and you have tounderstand that I have a soft
spot, like you wouldn't believe,for Will James.
My other favorite author ofthis era is Will James, who
wrote a lot of books abouthorses and the West and cowboys
and he lived it and he kind ofhad a very interesting life on

(49:24):
his own.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
He was not a Marguerite Henry type, no, no,
he's like the opposite.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
No, he spent some time in jail, even, but very
real, and he understood horsesand how horses think and move
better than for studying to wantto be in tune with them.
You know Now the practices, thethings they did.
You know how they broke horseswasn't necessarily kind, so you
know.
There's that whole what washappening at the time, but how
mustangs think, how horses think, how you know he was really in

(49:51):
tune with that and of course,being an artist, I admired his
illustrations and his paintings.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
But as you say in your book, he was already dead
at that point, and I think hehad just passed, like maybe the
year earlier.
Yeah, he wasn't all that oldwhen he passed, so he was not
that old.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
You know story for sure.
And, speaking of stories, whenI read your book and I'm reading
your book and I'm like thiswould be a great movie, I mean
you should like talk to somebodyto make a movie about your
journey telling Margaret,because the story of Margaret
all by herself is okay, but ifyou're like the character that
tells the story or like just howthe book is to me, because I

(50:27):
wanted to be in that kayak withyou, I really wanted to do that
with you.
I don't have producer friends,I'm sorry, I wish I did, but I
really think that the way theycould tell the story of Margaret
is through you and then reenactall the scenes in her life.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
Right, Well, thank you.
So I have all these.
I'm an ideas person.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
Me too, I get it.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
And I have more ideas than I probably have life left,
but yeah, so I have hadrequests of people say that I
could.
I can see this like adocumentary.
You're the first person whosaid a movie.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Oh no, it's gotta be a movie, you know it's gotta be.
Just think about who can playyou and who can play Marguerite,
you know Okay.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
I'm not really up on the, the actors and that, but.
But what was interesting iswhen I was on Chincoteague last
year, the bookseller there atthe local indie bookshop said
that I should create a one-womanshow about Marguerite and he
said people would eat it up.

(51:28):
Oh yeah, I can see that too.
I'm not doing the show, but Icould see.
I mean just her story iscompelling and so I take that as
a huge compliment.
And if you have anyone listeningwho is in that line of work?
They can reach out to me, Susan, at saddleseekshorsecom.
Yeah, this is a good segue.
Let's talk about how people canfind you.

(51:50):
Let's talk about that.
Okay, so if people love blogsand they like product reviews
for horse things and my mostrecent blog post was like a
collection of 21 horse themedbooks yeah, I saw that I have a
blog.
It's called saddle seeks s e ks horsecom and then on there

(52:11):
they can also that can refer tothem to my saddle seeks horse
shop, which is my Shopify storewhere I sell my books.
Great, my books are availableon the online sellers, but it's
kind of special to be able tosell direct to readers because
then I can personalize if I'mgetting an order and I know it
was fun for me because you knowI got to get to it, but it was

(52:35):
fun.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
I got a little note from you which I loved, but you
know you signed the book.
It's so.
I got a little note from youwhich I loved, but you signed
the book.
It's so nice yeah thank you,thank you and this bookmark, I
was like oh, special things, itmade me really happy.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Oh, good, good, yeah, so if people want a
personalized copy of my book orI have three other books, saddle
Seeks Horse Shop, but the comwill kind of refer there if you
just.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
Okay, and that's how people can reach you.
How can they reach you if theywant to have you talk about your
book or learn more?

Speaker 2 (53:01):
so that will.
Um, so I'm on instagram andfacebook.
I do prefer email is like mypreferred.
It's susan at saddle seekshorsecom.
Okay, and I do.
I have done a lot of speakingand that's kind of my jam.
I've spoken at theinternational museum of the
horse in Kentucky, spoken athistorical societies.

(53:22):
I'd love to do more withschools, especially my
background as an educator.
I just had a conversationyesterday with a curriculum
director for a school districtbecause I think there's a lot,
even if you know, I understandthe entire population of the
world is not horse-centric likeI am.
What?

Speaker 1 (53:39):
But in Marguerite, I know.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
Barbara, it's true, what?
Okay, no, but in MargueriteMisty and me, I just feel like
Marguerite had such like like Iwanted to learn her best
practices because she's aNewbery medal winning author,
right, and I want to be a betterwriter, you know.
And also um, research, becauseI I remember in like the last

(54:02):
year or two of teaching this,you know if I had a dollar for
every time, I asked a kid okay,well, what source did you use?
And they'd say google, right,and I said no, google's not a
source, you do understand, it'sa search engine.
The source is the article, andwhere did it come from?
Yeah, so, um, I feel likethere's a search engine.
The source is the article, andwhere to come?
Yeah, so, um, I feel likethere's a need out there, and so

(54:24):
I kind of want to.
I have a lot of ideas, but so II do.
I have a stump speech that Igive at libraries and historical
societies in that, but my goalmoving forward and I do have a
young reader version of margaretmissimi coming out, because I
was asked to speak at theshinkateague elementary school
and I was so excited because Iwas asked to speak at the
Chincoteague Elementary School,and I was so excited because I
was back in the classroom and Ithought, oh, my book is too hard

(54:45):
for them.
It's over 60,000 words that Iwrote you know.
So I'm right now in the middleof revisions for a young reader
version.
Great, because I have yeah,I've had people.
You know I go to Briar Fest.
I'm going to be at the umDefender Kentucky three-day
event here coming up, and sosometimes what'll happen is

(55:05):
people see the cover, they seecute Misty and they're like, oh,
I want to get this for mygranddaughter, like who's eight?
Well, my book, not that it's,there's nothing in there that's
offensive.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
No, certainly not, but it's just more pictures, and
yeah, you know, yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
Yeah, yeah, not the right grade level.
So, anyway, that's my longwinded way of saying Susan at
SaddleSeeksHorsecom.
But I'm also active onInstagram and Facebook and it's
at SaddleSeeksHorsecom I foundyou through.
That's how I found you.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
Yeah, I was like oh my gosh, I got to get the book.
Oh, I got to get her on mypodcast.
I got to talk to her about this.
Well, thank, you.
All-time favorite author of myfavorite books.
And then your book, like I said, was a delight and I'm grateful
for that, thank you.
We'll have all these links andthings on the show notes as well
.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
I appreciate that.
Thank you yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
Well, this is the part of the show that we call
Snack Break.
So if you were here we'd behaving, you know, triple
chocolate, real Wisconsin butter, eggs from my very own hen's
brownies.
You're not that far away, youknow.
I mean, it's Chicago, it's onlylike six hours.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
I know and you know what, you're not far from my
friend Rebecca Hart, who hasShinkateague ponies.
Well, I think we're going totalk.
She's in Minnesota, yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
We're going to talk afterwards.
I might have to get some B-rollfor this podcast.
I might have to go have some,some Shinkate, so we'll we'll
talk afterwards about, aboutfinding her, because I think
that'd be delightful to see them.
I mean, I could actually see one, that would be so, oh yeah,
okay.
So what we do is we have a it'sthe snack break, but also we
ask the questions.
And the questions we stole fromanother writer, tim Ferriss, in

(56:45):
his book called Tribe ofMentors.
But I really like thesequestions because then we get to
know you even a little bit more, and it's just, it's fun.
Okay, so we sent you like 20questions and out of them you
chose these five right.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
And I forgot which ones I chose.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
That's the best part I hope.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
I chose ones that are easy to answer.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
Oh, you got this All right.
What book would you recommend,and why?

Speaker 2 (57:09):
Well, okay, Obviously Misty of Chincoteague and
Margaret Misty and Me.
But I would say for overalllife.
I am a Christian, so I wouldsay the Bible.
There's so much wisdom in there.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
That's really cool.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
Yeah, there's a lot of people that I feel you know,
as we're more advanced withtechnology and all that, and I
feel like there's less joy andless peace, and so maybe the
book of Proverbs from the Bible.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Well, I'm with you.
We just joined a church.
I don't want to get into it toomuch, but we just joined a
church that we found and we fitreally well, and this one
happens to be fairly Bible-basedand the pastor gave me a Bible
companion book that is thisthick, right, but it explains
things right, so I'm gettinggreat joy out of just

(57:58):
understanding it better.
So that's an offshoot, but I'mwith you.
That's a great book.
That's cool.
Yeah, all right, do you have amentor, and what did the person
help you discover about yourself?

Speaker 2 (58:11):
Oh, my goodness.
Well, I've had many mentorsthroughout the course of my life
.
Um, in a way, marguerite hasbeen my mentor, even though
she's passed, and just the factthat I, like I said earlier, I
want to learn from her bestpractices with writing, and so

(58:32):
some of the techniques whichpeople can read about Marguerite
, misty and me, and just I feellike she was a go-getter in an
era when things were not as easyfor women and she just, you
know, would have an idea and shewould go for it.
And so I feel like, in a way, Iwant to be safe, you know, I

(58:54):
want to be practical, I want tobe safe, and so I don't know she
, she lived with a lot of joyand really made people feel
cared about, and so I would liketo be that.
And obviously, in my teachingcareer I had mentor teachers who
really helped me with some ofthe things that when you're

(59:15):
going through the certificationprogram, it doesn't really tell
you what to do, you know at 2.55on a Friday afternoon when
you've got a bunch of ADD boysin your room and stuff and then
also just riding, you knowdifferent.

(59:36):
When I boarded my horse at afarm in Southern California
before I moved back here to theMidwest, there was one of these
very wise horsemen who's knowjust riding adventures he'd been
on.
Yeah sure he had racehorses, heplayed polo, he three-day

(01:00:07):
evented, he owned a horse thatwas in the Olympics Like he's
just a solid horseman, and hewas very encouraging to me to
kind of in a way, with theMarguerite thing, to just kind
of go for things Cause.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
I don't want to say I'm a timid rider, but I I'm
always thinking about like okay,well, what could happen?
I'm always like I'm a verysafety first kind of person.
So I want to ride, but I don'twant to ride really fast, yeah,
For a long time.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
You know yeah, for a long time.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
No, maybe like a few strides a can are extended, but
um so he just yeah, so I've hada number of mentors.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
That's really cool All right, Uh, I think I know
the answer to this, but causewith every horse person, I know
this one, I know this one.
Uh, unless you surprise me,where do you go or what do you
do to recharge your batteries?

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
uh, well, I would say , yeah, the barn is my happy
place.
I board my horse and it's alovely, uh, family-owned
facility and, uh, thankfullythey have a heated indoor arena,
nice.
But it's you know, I justderive a lot of pleasure from
spending time with my horse.
Even he had an abscess recentlyso I couldn't ride him, but
it's just, he's like a goldenretriever and he's my best

(01:01:27):
friend and I just love groominghim, oh for sure, and hanging
out with him, and he's gotkissing spine, which is a
condition that, um, is kind oflike.
I don't horse people will knowwhat it is.
I'm thinking there's probablynon horse people listening.
It's a condition that can belimiting and some horses, uh,
might need to be retired.

(01:01:48):
Other horses can push throughit with certain types of like
physical therapy type things,and so it depends on.
I do all these, right, yeah, andI do all these, like All these
right yeah, and I do all theselike stretches and that my
equine vet, who is also like achiropractor as well, so I do
all these things and it takes.
So it takes me a long time,like before I can actually get

(01:02:10):
to the writing part.
Oh yeah, I'm done writing.
I do like I put a heating padon his back and I do these tail
tugs and all these things.
So but I like that because itmakes me feel like I'm helping
him feel better.
And then when I see the resultsand him using his body more
properly and being more relaxed,it just makes me feel good.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Well, he sounds like a lucky horse and I think it's
really true.
I have seven horses and itwasn't until last month when a
horse kind of fell into my lapanother little Morgan Gelding.
I last month, when a horse kindof fell into my lap another
little Morgan gelding I hadn'thad a horse to ride for two
years, couldn't ride Cause, uh,my riding horse, um died.
And then I had three young onesthat I won't ride till they're
five, um, so that's a wholenother podcast, a whole nother

(01:02:52):
adventure getting those guysfrom Montana.
But, uh, and then three oldrescue mares that came lame so
that they've been here 10, 12years now each, but they're just
so.
Yes, you brush them and you, youknow, you play at them and you
do groundwork and you just enjoythem and I fed all seven of
them.
This morning I put a picture onmy Facebook page like here's my
happy place, cause they're alllined up against the fence
eating Um, it was just like, youknow, just being around them.

(01:03:15):
Um are so healing for all of usaround them, um are so healing
for all of us.
I mean, there's white, there'swhite, you know, we're drawn to
them, it's.
It's.
That's what our podcast isabout.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
Is is how we are connected to animals and so you
connect and I have to say too,not to cut you off, but, um,
okay, so my horse, um, you know,is in a field all day long with
three other horses, and when Ishow up and then he sees me, and
then he walks up, you know, Ijust say hi, nate, and like he
approaches me and it's like,okay, he could be hanging out

(01:03:48):
with his friends, he could beeating the hay, or when there's
grass, you know there's not alot of grass.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
You put relationship before horsemanship, like you've
built the relationship with him.
That's why he's happy to cometo you.
So you've built relationshipbefore horsemanship and that's
what works.
She'll are one of the guys thatreally worked on attunement and
helping people learn um talksabout see, so he's a very lucky
horse.
You know that he has thatrelationship with you.
But I mean, how could he notlike you?

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Well, I, you know, I think okay.
So a little backstory.
If any of your fans are intohorse racing, my horse is a very
famous sire.
Tis now is the only horse tohave won the Breeders' Cup
Classic twice, Wow, okay.
And so he's a record holder.
He's a legend.
He just turned 27.
He's in Lexington, he's retiredfrom stud duty, but he's just

(01:04:38):
this gorgeous horse that youknow, and I would love to write
a book about him.
Actually.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Yeah, but okay.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
So my horse looks just like him, cool, like if
they were doing a, he could be astunt double, however zero
competitive drive.
And so I looked up his racerecord.
He won one race and the restwas very mediocre.
They didn't race him very longbecause they thought this isn't
his thing, and I thought, youknow, my horse is maybe a little

(01:05:08):
smarter, because he realizedit's better to be owned by a
middle-aged woman who willcoddle me, sure, and have out
the equine.
You know acupuncturist and have, you know, do all the things.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
So yeah, no, he's a lucky horse.
He's where he's supposed to be.
That's pretty cool, okay, whatinspires and motivates you to do
what you do?
What is your true purpose inthe world?

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Well, I, I love learning you know my background
education.
I love learning.
You know my background ineducation.
I love helping people learn.
I love reading.
I don't know, I just lovehorses, and I don't know that I
have a really great answer.
But you know the things I'mpassionate about I want to share

(01:05:54):
with people.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
So it was a natural fit.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
When I wanted to learn about who Marguerite Henry
was, I was like I got to tellmy friends too, because they're
going to also love learningthese fun stories about her.
You know, bringing a pony intoher house and having birthday
parties for Misty in herbackyard.
So I like to.
I'm a storyteller at heart.
I guess that's a great thing,that's a great thing.

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
Okay, and then we did talk about this do you have a
favorite animal companion?

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
Yes, knight, yeah, he's a knight, he's beautiful,
he's got a long forelock andhe's a cribber and I've tried
all kinds of things but he's 16,three, dark Bay, he's, he's I
think he's beautiful and he'sjust so sweet.
They've, they've told me at thebar and they're like he's 16,
three, dark Bay, he's, he's, Ithink he's beautiful and he's
just so sweet.
They've told me at the bar andthey're like he's kind of like a
golden retriever, my new horse.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
Teddy sharp.
He's a Morgan, um, uh, is 18years old.
So he he's really well trainedand, uh, he just came about a
month ago.
So I let him have a whole monthto just decompress and learn
about being at the new place.
And I have six mares who adorehim.
They just think he's the best.
And, you know, he's kind oflike all right, all righty, you
know, but he's fitting in really, really well.

(01:07:09):
And I finally did, after doingsome groundwork and just letting
him know that we were going tobe okay, and I bring him into my
outdoor arena and he'd justlike lay down and roll in the
sand.
He and I bring him into myoutdoor arena and he'd just like
lay down and roll in the sand.
He was so content, felt so safe.
It was really good.
He was giving me like I'm goingto be okay, we're going to be
okay, you know.
So finally, last week I rodehim and I realized that my
saddle was too wide so it wasn'tfitting properly, so I just got

(01:07:31):
it on bareback.
I tell you I was 16 confidentrider and it was just like.
You know, you, this is why wehave our horses, you know, part
of it is that it's timeless forus.
You know I'm going to be ridingwhat you know, queen Elizabeth.
I mean, she rode forever, right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
You know and you're just like that could be me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
You know I'm going to do that, or at least have them
around, because I can't be who Iam without them.
You know, yes, do you feel likeyou cannot be who you are
without your horse?
Just he's having horses.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
Being a horse person, that's just part of who you are
yeah, well, that's how my blogwas born saddle seeks horse
because I was in between horsesfor about four years.
That's a hard spot.
I had relocated and it was likeduring the era, like right
after the recession, and likethe teachers, like at my school
district, we got a pay decreaseand so it's like, okay, I'm

(01:08:27):
living in Orange County,california.
At the time yeah, pay decreasehad just bought like the worst
house on the best street andlike I don't know how I'm going
to have horses in my life for awhile, and so I was trying to
find a place to take ridinglessons because that seems like
a good place to start.
I mean, I've had horses, I'veshown like you know, I'm not

(01:08:48):
starting out, beginner, beginner.
But it was really hard toconnect into the horse world.
So I started my blog because Ihad the saddle from my horse who
had colicked and passed away,and now I was in between, so I'd
walk past the saddle in mygarage every day when I got home
from work and it just was likeI've got this saddle and of
course I then finally foundnight and the saddle didn't fit

(01:09:12):
him at all.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
No, but the point is you're still there, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
So, but that having that saddle there was part of my
identity, it was like, eventhough it was sad, it's like
this is who I truly am oh I, youknow I like I play tennis and I
don't like doing other stuffand swing dancing, but it was
like the horse part of me.
It feels like the real me notthat the other parts of the fake

(01:09:37):
me, but it's just like theessence.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
No, yeah, I totally get that.
Because I had horse.
Well, kevin, my husband and I,we eloped so I could have a
horse.
So we eloped because this farmwhere my mentor lived her
apartment above her farmhouseopened up and she said you can
live in the apartment.
I'm 19 and I'm like, oh, that'sgreat, I can live where the
horse I ride.
You know, I can live on thefarm.
That's all I've ever wanted,live on the farm.

(01:10:00):
And she said, well, but you andKevin have to get married.
You can't play house here,because this was 1981 and there
was not going to be any of that.
You know, you've got to bemarried, kevin, you want to get
married.
We've been dating a year and wewere still married.
So I'm really lucky.
And we didn't have kids untilseven years later.

(01:10:20):
So that was really good.
Had to grow up.
But you know, dang it.
We moved in, had the horse.
You know, my horse babe, myfirst, morgan, that you know.
I bought her for $250, you know, and I had to give her $25 a
month in check.
You know, $25 a month payments.
But uh, you know, it was likeheaven and so, anyway then, for
we had horses, whatever, andthen we had to move to town
Cause, let's see, we had threekids by then.

(01:10:41):
I was pregnant with my thirdchild and I couldn't afford
horses anymore, you know, and umhad to sell our farm you know
that we were living on and we'dmoved back to my hometown, south
St Paul, minnesota, and, uh, welived there for 10 years, but
after like just a year or two,I'm pregnant with a third child
and I would go drive to by thestable that was a few miles away
, five miles away, and I crylike watch the girls ride their

(01:11:03):
horses.
You know, of course, becauseI'm like, I'm like I, this, I I
never suffered depression.
I mean, I barely understanddepression, like when people are
really, you know, severelydepressed.
I, I only had a small glimpseof what it felt like, because
I've been really blessed, but Ihad this, you know, like this
was awful.
It wasn't who I was, and rightafter the baby was born, and it
was when horses were superexpensive, nobody, you know you.

(01:11:27):
Just, I mean, you got threekids.
You're, you know your.
You know my husband was workingas a house painter and, um, I
was my animal actor trainer, butit was always part-time, it was
never enough money, um, youknow, some of my friends said to
me the Dodge Nature Center isgiving away a horse.
They don't want to have itanymore.
It's not the breed they want.
You want a horse.
And I'm like, well, yeah.
And my husband was like, howcan we feed this?
We can't afford it, we can'tboard it.

(01:11:48):
And I said and this was fromyou, said you're a Christian,
this was God's not.
You know what I mean?
A voice in my head, sort oflike God doesn't send you horses
without sending you hay, sohe's not going to give me this
horse unless he gives me themeans to pay for the hay.
You know, like this was amiracle, I'm going to accept it.
He knows what I need.

(01:12:09):
He's going to take care of me,right?
So, uh, my friend who told meabout the horse said well, you
can just keep them at my place.
I've got a pasture.
I'm not going to charge youboard, you can just keep them
there.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
Oh, I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
So that was cowboy.
He was a Mustang of all thingsright.
And so my nieces, who were causemy children, was too small yet
my nieces, who were teenagers,early tweens, would ride with me
, and sometimes we'd ride double, you know, just for a little
bit, so that we could each havea turn, you know, and then I'd
put another one on and we'd ridewhatever.
And then it got to be like,well, let's write to these Arab
breeders and Morgan horsebreeders and see if they have
any old horses they want toretire because we can give them

(01:12:43):
a home.
So the girls wrote letters andthey each got a horse.
We got three horses.
What?
Yep, that's amazing.
Yep, so dollar horses, right.
So then their parents would payboard and the girls would.
So then by that time now we'relike between them.
And then I acquired a horse formy son to ride.
You know, another horse.
Suddenly you're boarding fivehorses, right.
As the years went by and you'rein 4-H, you're doing all this

(01:13:06):
stuff.
This is Dakota County, it wasgreat, minnesota.
I said, kevin, we got to buy afarm, so 20 years ago.
You know we bought where we arehere in Stockholm, wisconsin,
and I am never leaving.
I love it so much.
And I cause I was onlyhorseless for, you know, a few
years from when I got my firsthorse at 19, although I was

(01:13:26):
riding before that.
But like I cannot be horseless,it takes away who I am.
So long story short, but Itotally get what you're saying.
Yeah, and that's why horsepeople, do you recognize them?
You go somewhere and you see ahorse girl.
You know a horse woman, horseperson.
Oh, yeah.
And it's like she's not evendressed.
You know she's not wearing barnstuff necessarily, but you just
know, because of the way shecarries herself, how strong she

(01:13:48):
is, how sure she is of herself,cause horses do that for girls,
I really think.
Of course men too, but you know, and then, like Ariat's the
boots will give it away andyou'll be like, oh, you're right
, yeah, right, you know, werecognize each other, just like
service members can recognizeeach other.
Okay, well, this has been areally fun conversation.

(01:14:09):
I feel like a fangirl, becauseI was so excited to speak to you
about your book.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
Oh, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:16):
I want to read your other books too.
You have a good book Pleasehelp me with the title about
when you lose a horse.
What was the title?

Speaker 2 (01:14:22):
of that book.
Oh yeah, strands of Hope.
How to Grieve the Loss of aHorse.
It's a book that I feel so sadwhen people order it because
it's like, oh no, I'm gladbecause I get a little sale, but
then it's like, oh, someone'shurting and grieving.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
It's helpful because to be understood, you know to be
heard and understood means somuch.
So that's probably anotherpodcast.
We're probably just going tohave to go into that one, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
I'll come back.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
Really helpful, I'll make sure I have my, uh, my
tissue box.
Well, yeah, Cause the age I am,you know we've had horses come
and go, it just that's liferight.
But I've got these threeyoungsters and the oldsters and
now my new guy, Teddy Sharp.
It's pretty wonderful, Thankyou.
Thank you so much, Susan.

Speaker 2 (01:15:04):
Thank you For giving us all this time.

Speaker 1 (01:15:08):
And I just want to say thank you for being here.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
Thank you for having me.
It was fun to get to know youmore, barbara, and I hope our
paths cross in real life,because I love Wisconsin Also.
I rode when I was telling youin real life, because I love
Wisconsin and I do Also.
I rode when I was telling youwhen I was horseless and then I
finally found a barn when I wasliving in Orange County.
The horse I got to ride was aSorrel Morgan mare named Rio

(01:15:32):
Love it and she had this and Ithought like I'm 5'9" so I'm
like there's no way, becausethis horse is small, I'm gonna
look like I outgrew a pony andall that.
She became my favorite and hadthe smoothest canter, was not
marish at all, and then anotherMorgan named Morgana, who was
even shorter.

(01:15:52):
She and I'm friends with herowner to this day but she was
able to be one of the lessonhorses and I loved her too and
it was like this is a cool breed.
So I have a sister who'sretiring from teaching and she
thinks Knight is too tall he's16'3" and so I told her I'm like
you should look into Morgan's.

(01:16:13):
But I don't know that there's alot around where we are, so
we'll have to talk offline aboutoh for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
Yeah, I went to Montana to find mine because I
wanted the foundation ranchworking horses.
But boy, I love them.
I love their temperament.
They are the border collies ofthe horse world.
It's like give me a job, I amso willing to be your partner.
It's, it's.
They're pretty amazing.
So that's cool.

Speaker 2 (01:16:33):
Thank you again.
Thank you, yeah, thank you,barbara, appreciate it.