May 31, 2024 • 48 mins
Welcome to another episode of the Fertility Conversations podcast!
This is episode 16 of Season 5.
In this enlightening session, our host Ola sits down with Julia Paget, a seasoned embryologist, IVF clinic founder, and international fertility business consultant.
Julia shares her incredible journey from the UK to East Africa, New York, New Zealand, and beyond, working in over 15 IVF clinics worldwide and helping over 10,000 patients conceive.
She now leads the IVF Guide, a global platform offering unbiased advice and support directly to fertility patients.
Discover the nuances of fertility treatments across different countries, the pivotal role of embryologists, and how the IVF Guide is revolutionising patient care by providing personalised, expert support.
Whether you're at the beginning of your fertility journey or navigating its complexities, this episode offers invaluable insights and hope. Don't miss it!
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To connect with Julia, you can check her website https://www.theivfguide.life/
You can also connect via Instagram https://www.instagram.com/the.ivf.guide/
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. OUTRO:
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fertility Conversations podcast. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to reach out to us on social media or via our website.
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Remember to Subscribe, leave a review and give this podcast a 5*rating to help spread more awareness about In(Fertility).
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This is a podcast that shares stories of fertility & Infertility in Africa & all across the world.
Representation Matters. Our stories matter. Our stories help others feel less alone.
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If you would like to share your story, I would love to hear from you. Please email me at: fertilityconversations@gmail.com
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This podcast is sponsored by Fenomatch; an Artificial Intelligence-based platform for fertility clinics and banks. It helps fertility centers to choose the most suitable donor for each patient and improve the selection process at all levels. For more information- https://fenomatch.com/en/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This podcast is sponsored by Phenomage, finding the most suitable donor with
the matching tool for the best teams.
Hello, and welcome to the Fertility Conversations podcast.
The goal of this podcast is to create more awareness about infertility and to
provide support to people trying to conceive.
Thank you for listening today, and we hope you will be encouraged.
(00:23):
And now, here is your host, Ola.
Music.
Welcome to another episode of the Fertility Conversations podcast.
Today we're joined by a lovely guest, Julia Paget. Julia is an established IVF
clinic founder, international fertility business consultant, and embryologist.
She has worked in over 15 IVF clinics worldwide and has helped over 10,000 patients
(00:50):
to conceive thousands of babies.
Now Julia leads the IVF Guide, the the first global platform of independent
IVF professionals offering unbiased advice and support directly to fertility patients.
Julia is passionate about ensuring that everyone on a fertility journey is given
the absolute best and safest chance to achieve a pregnancy without paying over
(01:15):
the odds and without getting lost in the system.
Originally from the UK, Julia now lives in sunny Spain.
So welcome julian thank you so much for joining us today hi ola thanks for having
me yay how is it there in spain it's hot actually yeah it's hot it's lovely night i'm warm.
(01:38):
How's it in london it's great well it's not sunny it's cold and wet but hey
that's london Yeah, it is. Looking forward to the summer days.
So thank you so much for joining us today. And I really appreciate all that
you're doing because when I read
your bio, it's really amazing what you've accomplished over the years.
(02:01):
To start off, can you please tell us a little bit about yourself,
your background, and how you transitioned from being an embryologist into this?
Founder or business? Yeah, sure. Thank you. Well, thanks for having me on. It's very exciting.
Yeah. So I'm originally from the UK. I grew up on the Isle of Wight on a farm
and so very rural and then went to live, studied in, studied zoology in London.
(02:27):
So kind of got the big city thing and wanted to stay in cities.
I went to East Africa for a while as like past post university to work in conservation.
I was sure I did a zoology degree and I was like, oh, I want to work in conservation,
got myself a kind of volunteered job in Tanzania.
And during that time became really disillusioned with where the money was going in conservation.
(02:52):
And I was like, no, I'm not, I'm not sure about this. You know,
I'm not sure about this is what I want to do.
And when I came back to the UK, a guy that had moved into my flat share was an embryologist.
And this was must have been about 93 94 so
I'd never heard of that back then obviously I'd
had test tube babies hadn't heard of a embryologist had a chat with this
(03:13):
guy and it just blew my mind I was like wow
this is this is what I want to do and of course back then it was all so much
easier I mean I thought it was difficult at the time because I had to write
you know 20 letters but I wrote 20 letters got a job in in Manchester purely
I think because I had just come back from East Africa.
(03:33):
And the guy there was South African. And we had a little bit of a Swahili chat.
You'd never get into embryology these days in that way. So I was really lucky.
I got into IVF, got my first job in Manchester.
And then I was, I mean, I've been so lucky in my career, an American girl who
was extremely experienced, had come over for a kind of a sabbatical work work experience in England.
(04:00):
And she hooked me up with a job in New York, which, you know,
24 years old, this amazing job in New York.
So at 24, after two years in the UK, I was out working in America.
And I think this transition to working in America as a Brit is really mind-blowing.
There's a very, very different culture out there of very much a meritocracy.
(04:21):
If you work hard, you climb really quickly.
So my career just really catapulted quite quickly once I was in New York.
So I was there for four years.
And then I transferred to New Zealand because my sister was in New Zealand.
And there's a whole sort of personal background, but maybe I won't go into that,
sort of boyfriends and things like that.
And I ended up in New Zealand. And I ran a lab there for a while,
(04:45):
then came back to the UK because I'd actually met my husband in America, and he was then in the UK.
So I came back to the UK, dabbled in osteopathy for a while,
because actually I thought I didn't want to work in IVF in the UK anymore,
because it's just like really big differences in how it operates in different countries.
But I did end up back in IVF, worked at the Lister Hospital for a while,
(05:08):
and then ended up being really lucky that there was kind of an opportunity to
start an IVF centre in Southampton.
A doctor that I was working with was like, you know, look, we're sitting on
this referral stream for the NHS.
It's all going down the road to a private clinic. Let's see if the NHS want
to, you know, we can bring some value to the NHS by having it kept in-house if we partner with them.
(05:32):
So we did a really complicated private-public partnership and got investment
from the NHS to build what's now Complete Fertility Centre Southampton.
I was still an embryologist. I was running the lab, but I was also building the clinic,
doing the website hiring people setting up
the finance systems so it was all very challenging and
(05:52):
around that time well so probably after about five years I
transitioned out of the lab to be just the business director although I would
occasionally still go into the lab and I was still you know an extremely experienced
clinical person in the clinic so I would often get or always get like really
challenging issues when you know when anything went wrong or when there was a patient
(06:14):
that was really struggling, it would always end up on my plate.
And I think that's because I wanted it to, because I knew that I really connect.
I'm a people person. I love connecting
with people. I love hearing their stories and I want to help them.
And it was always my passion that if I had my own clinic, I wanted it to be
that if anyone came through the door, we were going to treat them as if they
(06:36):
were my sister or the nurse's sister or my best friend. You know,
like what is it you would want to give for them?
How do you make them have the best, the absolute best chance of getting pregnant?
But of course, running a business, it is challenging. You know,
you've got thousands of patients churning through, you've got staff, you've got,
You can't manage every single detail unless you're a micromanager and that's not nice either.
(07:00):
And so anyway, I was there for a number of years and we ended up selling that
clinic to Virtus Health, which
you may have heard of. They're the largest provider of IVF in Australia.
And they're one of the largest in the world in terms of cycle numbers because
they've got clinics through Europe as well. So we became their first UK clinic.
And that was amazing, suddenly being part of a big global group, the big global network.
(07:24):
And then I took a role with them that was based in Singapore,
setting up their consulting services.
So when large hospital groups come to a big organization like Virtus Health
and say, we want IVF, how do we put that in?
Then those were my projects.
And then that transitioned to helping support acquire clinics,
so mergers and acquisitions, so super interesting business stuff.
(07:47):
All in Southeast Asia, but this this point, I was working remotely from the
UK, thinking I was going to move to Singapore.
But it was around COVID time. And they were like, you know what,
you're doing the job fine, just stay where you are and keep doing the job.
And I thought, well, hang on, I'm working remotely after so many years,
you know, having to go into a clinic.
Let's make the most of this. So I upped the family and moved to Spain.
(08:10):
So that's how I've ended up in Spain, still working remotely.
So then, Then to get to how we got to the IVF guide, I left that job and thought,
how do I keep working globally?
Because I've been working globally for so long. I know that for years you have
patients, friends of friends contact you.
If you're an embryologist or a fertility nurse or you work in the fertility
(08:31):
space, and I'm sure you have this all the time, people reaching out to you going.
What do I do? I'm having this treatment in these clinics. What's my next step? What just happened?
What went wrong? And I know that when I help those people or my colleagues,
friends help those people, they tend to have a better experience because they've
got somebody on the inside, but we're not aligning with any one clinic.
(08:53):
We're not saying you've got to go to this clinic. That clinic is the only way to do it.
We know that, especially from, I mean, I've worked in so many clinics around
the world, each clinic is very different.
They're all amazing for different reasons, but depending on what you need,
and I know you know this as well, because we've talked about it,
depending on what you need personally,
what your relationship status is, whether you need donor eggs,
(09:16):
whether you need donor sperm,
whether you need genetic testing, whether you're a bit older or you actually
don't mind paying over the odds for a lot of additional things,
or you're really looking for a clinic that has that extra support and you don't
mind so much about donor because that's not relevant for you.
It really does depend on your situation, where the right clinic for you is.
(09:39):
And you shouldn't need to be traveling for it. But there's also options abroad
if you want to look at different pricing options or different donor options
or different access to different kinds of tests or services that different countries don't do.
So I thought, well, I can provide this service, but I'm just one person and
I obviously don't know every clinic.
So I started reaching out to my network of great friends that I've worked with along the way.
(10:04):
Initially just embryologists. And everyone was like, this is amazing.
You know, we want to join, we want to join. If you're going to get us,
you know, access to these patients, we know we can give so much,
especially embryologists that are stuck in the IVF labs doing IVF and ICSI all the time.
They are so brilliantly clever. They know, not me, because I came into it 30 years ago.
Nowadays, when they come into it, they are so highly, highly educated in the
(10:27):
full fertility pathway.
And they love talking to patients, but they're in the lab and they're not,
they don't have access to the patients very easily.
When patients get access to them, they love it.
So what I'm trying to do is provide a platform of getting embryologists in front of patients.
And now I've added infertility nurses because they're amazing too.
(10:48):
And I know so many of them. And before I knew it, I've got a hundred people
on this global platform.
We're in 15 countries, six continents, and it's, yeah, it's just,
it's going really fast and it's really exciting.
So that's the the synopsis yeah
that's where we're at yeah that's amazing actually and
it really is a good idea because i think oftentimes we for
(11:10):
even for example embryologists we always think they're just in the lab right
we never see them we just see the doctors and the nurses the embryologists are
back there doing what they do uh so you're now bringing them to the front of
the patients i think that's pretty interesting because many fertility patients associate
associate an embryologist with a lab. That's it.
(11:31):
So what else will they be bringing to the table by having an embryologist?
Yeah. So it's really interesting because actually, if you go under the cover
in any IVF clinic, you'll find that the embryologists tend to be doing.
Almost everything. I mean, certainly in my clinic, we were running the clinic,
right? Because I'm an embryologist, I was running the clinic,
the embryology team were my right-hand team.
(11:51):
And I've seen this in every clinic I've worked in. The doctors are obviously front and center.
They're the names in the clinic. They're highly, you know, they're essential,
obviously, they're so important.
But when they lean on the process, it's the embryologists often that are putting the pathways in place,
organizing the meetings, telling, you know, whoever, which patient needs to
(12:14):
be spoken to about what they are, the background of any IVF clinic.
And certainly in the UK, I think embryologists are much more front and center.
They do meet the patients.
There's a lot of clinics now have embryology consultations, but it's so much more than the embryos.
Like we don't talk about just the embryos. We have to know the full fertility pathway.
(12:35):
And we're probably the only people in the clinic that
know that full pathway because as amazing
as the doctors and nurses are they obviously don't know
exactly what happens in the IVF lab whereas we
know what happens in the IVF lab and we see everything else that happens too
if you know what I mean so we are very very well versed in that whole process
(12:56):
so in terms of what we're offering with the IVF guide it's not just about we're
going to talk about your embryos yes we can do that because that's important
but But more importantly,
really, is where are you going?
What tests are you having? Who do you need to speak to?
Are you lost in the system? That's what we hear all the time.
You know, look, I've been waiting for a test for so long or this clinic.
(13:17):
I don't even know whether this clinic will do what I need because they're telling
me I have to go for an appointment to even find out.
And then, well, you've spent that money on that doctor.
You've then financially and emotionally invested in that clinic.
It's unlikely you're then going to say, well, actually, no, I don't want to go here.
But you don't know whether that clinic can offer you what you need until you've spent that money.
(13:39):
Whereas through this network that we now have, say if you were in Nigeria,
for example, I could be like, okay, well, I know that there's these three clinics
in Lagos and we've got these people in these clinics.
Which clinics are you interested in? Okay, we're going to connect with those clinics too.
And then we go under the cover. We can go to the lab managers,
the fertility nurses, the lead of genetics and talk to those clinics,
(14:02):
find out exactly what's going on in them, exactly what you're going to pay.
Do they offer you what you need to offer? And then we'll also get a discount for you.
We hope most clinics will get discounts because of course, all these clinics
are saying to us, oh yeah, Julie, we'll give you some money if you send us patients
because that's how pipelines lines work.
And I'm like, that sounds great, but that is now the patient discount because
(14:23):
we want to be completely unbiased.
We don't want to be saying that any clinic is paying us.
So any kickback or offer that a clinic will give, we're asking that to be a
patient discount for our clients.
So the idea being that we'll save the patients money because we'll get them discounts.
We'll also save them money by supporting them not
(14:44):
having tests that they don't need or accessing national health
set like for example in the uk a lot of the stuff you
you need for an ivf clinic can be done in the nhs before
you get there but of course a clinic is it's not in their favor to say you could
go back to your gp i mean they do they are often very transparent in all fairness
they do say you could go to your gp and get this but some clinics might not
(15:05):
or you by the time you've got there you may just be like okay i'll just spend
the money and to get quicker but we can helped you find out, okay,
you can get this done with your GP, but you don't need that done.
And for this clinic, you don't need to have those kinds of tests first, et cetera.
So we can save you money in that way. We can save you time because we're going
to get you where you need quicker.
(15:26):
And a lot of people I find are really stuck in the system doing things that
they don't need to be doing because their local doctor that isn't a fertility expert, like their GP,
for example, says, oh, you need this, this, and this, and you've got to go to
this hospital and have this scan and then wait six months for that result.
And actually for what they need, it's not relevant to their treatment pathway.
(15:47):
But so they're kind of not getting focused information. And then we also say
we save you stress because we're going to be like your buddy.
It's like your support person through it. That's like your friend, but it is an expert.
And we're never going to be sort of saying, oh, the clock's ticking.
You've only got an hour with us.
You know, If you have appointments with us, it's as much time as you need,
(16:08):
as much access as you need, et cetera.
That sounds amazing. And actually, it is really good to hear that because,
I mean, the kind of support you're providing, because when you think about it,
when you noted earlier that waiting with a doctor, maybe a GP for six months
for one test or the other,
six months is a long time for someone trying to do fertility treatments.
It can make a huge difference yeah you don't want to
(16:30):
see people waiting six months that's not cool that's not
cool on a fertility journey your biological clock is is
ticking you know and we all know that and you know it more than
anyone and so by the time you then get to that first appointment you are so
stressed and so anxious because there's been so much build-up just to get that
one appointment with the doctor and then we find where you go into that appointment
(16:51):
with the doctor and when you come out you're like i don't know what he or she
just said to me because Because it's so huge, right?
And that's why we can be there either on speakerphone for your appointments so we can listen.
We're not going to interrupt that doctor. We don't want to make him or her feel uncomfortable.
We're not there to question the doctor. We are purely supportive,
(17:12):
but we'll be listening so that afterwards when you're like, I don't know what
happens, we're like, okay, so this is what they explained to you.
If we think something's not been covered, we can raise a hand and say,
oh, could you just tell her this or that?
You know but equally we're there as a
as a calm expert pair of ears I mean
we can even go physically to the appointment if you want us to but even we
(17:33):
can just be on your speakerphone it's a lot easier for you and then we can just
decode that for you afterwards okay right you know this is what happened this
is what you need to do you're going to see the nurse so we're just there as
your friend it's almost like an extra partner especially for single women that
are going through this I know single women often have a mom or a sister or a
friend that might do it with them and that's great.
But we could also be that person if they don't want to be sharing or they don't have that extra person.
(17:57):
And I definitely met them along the way. I've met the single women that don't
have the support person.
And I know they need so much more and different kind of support.
They don't have someone to go home with and talk it through.
And, you know, so we can be their partner through it, you know.
That's a pretty cool addition to actually what you're offering.
Because again, oftentimes when you go as a fertility patient to the clinic,
(18:21):
even if you you have a partner you might not go with that partner and even even
if you do go sometimes you're just both you're both overwhelmed your mind overwhelmed
you're not really listening and you're not really asking you don't even know
what the right question to ask is exactly.
Exactly. I mean, I've been there for other different types of appointments,
but I know, I know, I mean, we would always get those, you know,
(18:44):
I've had, whenever I speak to a patient, it's, well, I had a doctor appointment.
I don't really know what happened.
I think we're doing IVF, you know, and then they'll wait for the nurse call.
And they've got to see, they won't, you know, the clinic will pick them up.
But that stress, that anxiety, we know that's not helping your situation.
We want to keep you as calm as possible. sport. We know how the stress is so
(19:07):
enormous through it, right?
And I can't say I can take that away because we can't.
But just know that you've got somebody, when you're trying to call your clinic
and they don't answer because all clinics are so busy that sometimes you've got to wait.
If we could take that off you and just say, okay, well, I'll call the clinic.
If you've got a question, if I don't know the answer, which we may just know
the answer straight away because it's just a normal standard question.
(19:30):
But if it's like I've run out of medication or I'm bleeding and what should I do?
We can take that off you. We can be the person between the clinic and just be
right in there because it's just easier for us to manage.
And so it's like you've got your personal nurse or embryologist with you on
the phone through your whole cycle.
(19:51):
We're not charging you by the hour. It's just a set fee.
And we hope that that takes the pressure off. The other thing that we're really
excited about is we're developing an app.
And we really think this is going to be a game changer because we're so global.
We've got this app coming where you will literally, anyone on a fertility journey
can go into the app, first of all, for free, just get a lot of information as
(20:13):
you would anywhere about IVF.
And then you've got a question. You're like, I've got a question.
You just pay a really small amount and you can ask a chat, like a chat question.
And that will initially go to the IVF guides in your country.
If they don't pick it because they'll have said they're available and if they're
not available say it's the middle of the night it will go wider to your continent.
(20:35):
And then if it's still like for any reason that they're not available to go wider to the world.
And hopefully, so people have things like the Uber of fertility,
because whoever picks it up, yeah, you know, there'll be your IVF guy.
And because we're vetting everybody, okay, so everybody has to speak English,
obviously, as a baseline, but we've got so many different languages on the on the system.
(20:56):
It's wonderful, because we've got all these different countries,
they've all got to have had at least five years post qualifying experience as
a nurse or a a fertility nurse or as an embryologist, they've all got to have
worked in at least two IBF clinics.
And then, of course, according to their country, we're making sure they've got
the right registration, qualifications, et cetera. The people I'm meeting are amazing.
(21:17):
I mean, they're just absolutely wonderful. And most people have got 15,
20 years experience because they're so interested in doing something a bit different.
You know, they've been working in their IBF clinics for a long time.
This isn't necessarily attracting the younger people because they're happy learning
the ropes in the IBF clinics.
We're attracting the people that have been in it 20, 25 years.
They're sort of thinking about what's my next step? Do I have to keep commuting?
(21:40):
I'd really like to work remotely.
So we're getting amazing, I mean, really big names in IBF joining the program and our platform.
So no matter who your answer is from, it's going to be someone extremely reputable,
extremely experienced. So that's really exciting.
And then on the app, if you have your your small questions answered and you
think this is really cool. And you can scroll through all the IVF guides.
(22:03):
You can look for specialisms. Whether you want a nurse, embryologist,
you want someone who knows loads about genetics or donor or anything specific,
research, anything specific to you.
And you say, yeah, I like the look of her or him. I want to work with him.
And then you pay a little bit more and you then have full access for a month
to that IVF guide, video calls, as many as you want for that price. Because we believe that.
(22:26):
No one's really going to want to talk to someone for more than three hours.
So we're literally saying, we're not saying you get two appointments or 10 appointments.
It's just, if you want to see them every night or three times a day for the
next month, go for it because that's what you get as part of this.
And then when you've selected that option, you then also get access to these discounts.
(22:48):
And we want to have discounts with more than 50% of the world's providers.
So not just IVF clinics, but semen analysis tests, blood tests,
ultrasound scans. All tests, yeah.
Yeah, so wherever you are, we'll always give you at least three options for
any of those things and hopefully a discount so that we're never saying,
(23:09):
yes, if you need a semen analysis, you've got to use this provider or you need
a doctor, you see that doctor.
We'll always give you three of what we believe is the best option.
And it won't just be this one person making that decision either because
we've got these clinical governance committees in each territory
so that say you came to me in Lagos
again and said for example and said okay I'm
(23:31):
seeing this IVF guide I want treatment there that IVF
guide would then take it back to our Africa committee who would say then and
say okay I'm looking at these clinics for Ola what do you think and then that
committee would say okay well have you tried this this and this because I know
these clinics and these doctors so we've got this by by contacting one IVF guide,
(23:52):
you've got the network and it will be constantly reviewed.
Are you feeding back? Are you building that information back?
So each client is actually getting access to the world's IVF guides.
So we think it's pretty cool. I think it's amazing.
I love the sound of it. And even when you speak about sperm and stamen analysis,
so with you having that guide and all of that, if a patient,
(24:14):
for example, is needing or they're dealing with male factor infertility,
you can then And say you can then perhaps advise them on the clinics that have
special specialties in that area so that we know to only go to those clinics
as opposed to finding out much later.
And what we're finding is because we are attracting the top people in the game,
(24:39):
in the field, I mean, we're getting top andrologists, top embryologists, top geneticists.
So it doesn't matter where you are.
If you're in Mexico, we have people that are so global and so eminent in the
field that we can say, look, this person's a really specific issue with their sperm.
You know, it's quite rare or it's quite, well, that just goes straight to the
(25:02):
most eminent person that we've got, you know, and then they feedback, oh yeah, I know.
Oh, they're in Mexico. Okay. Yeah. No, I know. I have these contacts.
I have this, this, and this. So it's crazy what we're delivering.
I mean, just our WhatsApp group alone is blurring everybody's mind because we
are suddenly, instead of us all being working for different clinics,
we're suddenly part of this incredible world organization.
(25:24):
People are calling it their family already. It's so exciting. exciting so
so from our side we're loving it and we
hope I love it thank you yeah we're
just trying to get the word out because it's very difficult to it's
one of these services that is actually so exciting
but actually quite hard to distill into a nutshell you know
I've been talking 20 minutes because there's just so many and then there's
(25:45):
this and there's this and there's this so we're trying to kind
of get it really clear messaging but it's quite hard
to make it really really clear what is
it we're actually doing yeah which is
great i think it seems almost like your fertility support
the coach but also knowledgeable fertility professionals
right you can provide information about the clinic to choose you can advise
(26:09):
them in terms of you know even when they have questions for the doctors what
questions to ask and and that's that's a whole lot that's what people need when
you're going through fertility treatments because it's.
So many questions, so many concerns. You need to feel like you have some kind
of person that understands, but understands from the professional part of it
(26:30):
and can advise you how to go.
Yeah, because there's a lot of confusion out there. There's just so much out there.
And I know that there's so much amazing offerings out there.
But I know if I was a patient, I'd be like, where do I start?
Do I start with the special juice?
Do i start with the saying else do i start
(26:52):
with the mindfulness i mean that's a good way it's all
great it's all good but it's like but you know what what
do i what do i really need or i haven't got much money or i actually have loads
of money and i'm happy to spend oh you know so we can we can support with you
know what's right for you what what are you exactly what is specific for you
not for your friend not for that person you heard about yeah and your budget
(27:13):
yeah and yeah Yeah, exactly.
And then the other, we're so excited as well that it's not maybe so relevant
for your audience, but we, or maybe you do, you have an audience of clinics as well.
I don't know, but we are also providing professional services to clinics because
of course we've got all these embryologists and nurses and we're like,
look, you know, we can provide outsourcing.
(27:34):
So these people want to work remotely.
Nurses and embryologists can do so much work outside of
the clinic so we're also supporting with that kind
of the the outsourcing support stuff for clinics
too which is which is really cool because that's kind of quite novel too for
people to be working remotely in that way so yeah well it sounds really exciting
(27:55):
and for people that are listening and wanting to reach out to you what's the
best way to reach you at the IVF guide yes so So they can find us on Instagram,
the.ivf.guide, or my WhatsApp,
plus34, because I'm in Spain, 683-133-799, or our website is ivfguide.co.uk.
(28:18):
We are going to be changing that because it doesn't sound good at being a UK website.
It started with just me and then suddenly like, okay, I'm global. Everybody.
I didn't really set out to do that. So I've gone to domainlane.life,
but I haven't got to transfer it over.
Yeah. Sounds great. I'll put all the details in the show notes so people can reach out to you.
(28:40):
And I know that you noted earlier, we talked about the fact that you've worked
in over 15 IVF clinics across the globe.
So what would you say are some of the differences in patient outcomes based
on the country and what's been your experience?
Yeah, it's interesting. It's very different. I mean, you would know that even
(29:01):
in any country, there's a huge range of success rates, right?
I think probably in the UK, you could say the success rates span from 20% per
cycle, per embryo transfer, 20% birth, up to something like 60%.
I mean, that's a big range, right?
Now, if you talk to those clinics, say the 20% clinics, it's quite likely they'd
(29:25):
be saying, oh, we get all the older patients.
We get the patients that have gone everywhere else, et cetera.
But my personal experience is the clinics with the best success rates tend to
have the trickiest patients because the patients that have tried everywhere
else, they're the ones that are really now shopping around. They've had their two, three cycles.
(29:46):
They've gone to their local clinic because their doctor or their friend said,
oh, yeah, the doctor is nice or whatever.
Then they're like, OK, I'm still not getting pregnant.
What next? What next? This place has got 60%. I'm going to go there.
And so those clinics with the 60% rates tend to be, I believe,
I mean, obviously there's a big.
(30:07):
Plethora are out there, but the ones that I'm aware of and that I've worked
with, they are the absolute best because they've got these patients that have
had so many cycles elsewhere. They are older.
They're using donor sperm and genetics. They've got real complex cases.
And then they still get the 60% pregnancies or the 40%, say,
(30:29):
in those difficult groups, etc.
And that upsets me because there shouldn't be this disparity.
Certainly working in America, from my experience, were the best clinics in the
world in terms of outcomes.
What I learned there and how you can manage a fertility patient was wonderful.
(30:52):
From my stage of my career, being in my 20s, being exposed to that level of
detail and perfection and obsession obsession with getting people pregnant was
totally mind-changing for me in terms of what I was wanting to achieve.
I've obviously found that difficult because I'm not a doctor.
I bring one part of the equation, the lab side of things, and you need every part of it to marry up.
(31:18):
So certainly for me, America was the pinnacle in terms of outcomes.
But those were the clinics that I worked at. I know that there's some clinics
that are not so amazing, perhaps, but and equally, it's very expensive in America.
So one might argue, well, they have the time and the money to put in the extra
(31:38):
stuff, the time to give that focus.
Certainly in the UK, our doctors usually have different commitments with the
NHS, et cetera, et cetera. So.
You don't necessarily get that
level of focus or time that perhaps brings everything a bit further up.
Now, the standard patients, I know there is no such thing as a standard patient,
(32:00):
but for your first cycle or second cycle, then most clinics are probably giving a similar outcome.
It's just when it becomes more complicated and you're not getting pregnant.
Or things don't go well in the cycle.
It's like, you'll see the clinics that get the
absolute best success rates are the one that sort of treat the
whole system as if it's the formula one racing car you know
(32:20):
it's like well if you if you just wax the wheels
or if you've got a different driver or if you if you
change the bonnet to go a bit faster because you
won't necessarily see the difference with it
with the one tiny change but if you make every tiny
change constantly and every day are you are you
honing that racing car honing honing honing you know
(32:41):
and again coming back to that are you treating her like your
sister if that was your sister you know is that
the time you would do that egg collection is that the you
know is that the time you would do the insemination would you
have been quicker doing that would you have made that judgment quicker
or answer the phone quicker any of those things you know so I suppose the other
(33:01):
place I can comment on is New Zealand I worked there I think working in New
Zealand was just fantastic I mean they are so far away they a five-hour flight from Australia.
Like when you live on the North Hemisphere. You think it's just right next door.
I know, right? I know. I mean, it's crazy.
You live in the Northern Hemisphere, you're like, oh, Australia,
New Zealand is all there.
(33:23):
You fly over Australia and then
you sit on that plane another five hours before you get to New Zealand.
I mean, there is nothing around New Zealand. So you kind of think,
and then when you get to New Zealand...
They're like the coolest, loveliest people. There's something,
they call it the Kiwi ingenuity.
Like they've had to reinvent the wheel on everything because they can't get supplies in.
Like by the time things come in, it rots or it goes off. Or,
(33:44):
you know, so everything you do, you have to kind of think about differently.
So when I got there, they were one of, I was working in the capital of New Zealand,
Wellington. They were the only clinic in Wellington.
They had partner clinics in two other towns and there was only one competitor in the South Island.
So they had no competition right so many people
(34:05):
would be like well we've got no competition doesn't matter
but they were obsessed with being
the best they want because they're so little because they're so far away they
have this attitude that they want to be a global player and you see that with
their prime ministers and that you know they they have big presences in the
world stage because they want to be taken very seriously because they are so
(34:27):
they apparently it's got something like the highest percentage of entrepreneurs
per capita or innovators or something,
you know, because they're so outward looking because they're so far away.
I mean, it's fascinating.
So for example, when I was there, I was like, you know, you don't have a heated stage.
You know, it's a basic thing in an IVF lab is to keep the embryos warm when
they come out of the incubators. And they're like, well, we just have to work really fast, Julian.
(34:48):
I was like, no, no, no, you've got to have a heated stage. And they're like, we can't afford it.
So normally one of these pieces of equipment would be 50,000 pounds at least, something like that.
And they They sent me this man with a little leather bag and a hammer and a welding kit.
And he's like, right, what do you need? You know, old glasses and stuff.
He's like, what do you need? I'm like, well, and I had to draw him a picture of what I needed.
(35:08):
And he literally welded me up with a bit of soldering, a plate that would go
over my microscope to keep the embryos warm. It worked perfectly.
It was probably $100 or whatever, you know. And it's like, you know,
they have to reinvent the wheel on everything.
And so our outcomes were amazing, phenomenal.
That yeah not quite not quite as high as america but almost
(35:30):
it was up there and that was a start i learned so much from
that they were also super switched on in how they
looked after their staff how they used the counsellor for supporting each other
they placed huge importance on respect for the local community and the maori
and how we had to they have different beliefs in how we treated the embryos
and it was just it was really wonderful for me as a sort of little you know young person
(35:54):
coming from the other side of the world to kind of learn about this different
way of working. It was quite wonderful.
That's amazing. Yeah, I love it.
And it's good to see that there's difference, you know, in each country as there
is in different clinics as well.
Oh, you learn so much from working in different, yeah. And I've worked in Southeast
Asia as well. And they were just really cool, very subservient to the doctor.
(36:16):
The doctor is absolutely in charge, you know, even though they're absolutely
brilliant in the lab too.
But yes, very, very, very much focused on success.
Success and but interestingly I thought this was quite
interesting is that they're when I said to them so how
often you know how do you manage your patient complaints and
they're like so this is Singapore they're like our patients don't complain we
(36:38):
don't we don't have and you think well they must be amazing right you know but
actually it's because the culture like in England I think we're pretty good
in the way we look after we're you know comparison to Spain where the patient doctor.
Relationship is interesting say that they
don't sort of value the privacy say so much
in Spain you know there's a little bit more undignified the
(37:01):
way they treat you but it's wonderful but but in
England we're very careful about privacy confidentiality paperwork
making sure everyone's looked after well-being's okay but English
people complain a lot it's just we do and and
if you don't you know obviously in in the field that we
work in if you don't have a baby and then something
you think well they weren't that nice to me
(37:23):
at that point well then you might write a letter of complaint and then that takes
up a huge amount of time for the clinic and that's okay because we're
always learning from that and we're getting better and we get that feedback that's
fine you know we encourage that and support it in Singapore that
doesn't happen they just don't complain it's a they would never
raise their hand so maybe that's not great in some ways
because they're not being heard when things aren't you know
(37:45):
aren't so good I don't know yeah that's interesting yeah yeah
it's funny right because I guess yeah you
do want to complain or find a way to give your
feedback be heard yeah yeah to say what you
felt and what could have been done differently exactly I'm proud of us Brits
for being able to feed that back although on the other side it can be quite
(38:07):
overwhelming because you start to think you're really bad you know you're like
oh god are we really bad at this it's actually no we're not it's We're just,
we're listening, we're listening.
That's what it is. And I think for, you know, something like fertility treatments,
because everyone comes with different hopes and dreams and the reality that's
not guaranteed, but you know.
People are not going to be happy if the outcome is not what they expected. And it's hard, right?
(38:34):
It's hard. And the other thing that we know in the field is that fertility patients aren't ill.
You know, they're not like, you're not going for heart surgery or cancer surgery.
You know, most of the time, obviously there are cancer patients in there. So in general,
you're a well person that has had this awful thing going on with you that is
an illness in another way,
(38:54):
but you're physically well and fit and strong and
therefore you are you're fighting right you
come in you come in or you come in excited and
then it can turn to a you know
a sort of fight inside you which is completely understandable because it's like
I need this I need this to work right and so when things when you see something
(39:17):
that you don't think was right it's reasonable to say well I I don't think that
was right because if that took my chance or, you know, it's fine,
you know, so I think you should be heard. I think you should be heard.
And that's what I actually loved. That's the part I loved in my role at Complete
Fertility was that I was kind of usually first line for anyone with,
you know, a problem or a complaint because I knew I wanted to hear,
(39:40):
you know, I wanted to hear that and I wanted to try and help them and unpick
it because if someone's not, if it's not going through right,
well, we need to help that.
We need to solve that for you. We don't want to be defensive.
And say, oh, we didn't do it. We're going to fix it right now.
You know, let's get this right for you. So I sort of, I didn't enjoy it necessarily,
but I wanted to be that person because I knew that I had that personal need
(40:02):
for them to have it right, you know, rather than be defensive. Right.
And that's a great energy to take into the IVF guide because that's what people
need, right? They need people to hear them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, my family tell me I'm an over empath.
Do you know what I mean? I'm just like, oh my God, all the time.
(40:24):
I feel I get that feeling from people.
I just want to make it better.
I just want to make it better. And I'm really proud and so grateful for the
career I've been able to have to help people.
But I carry with me the people I've not been able to help always.
And, you know, when people say, oh, what a rewarding job. I'm always like, no, no, no, no, it's not.
(40:48):
It's not because I just see, you know, wherever you work, there's always going
to be a chunk of people that don't have a baby.
And that's tragic, you know, to me. and I
want to make sure that I can do as
much as I can to help them get that baby or find another
way if that's not going to happen you know I think it's also really important
to acknowledge to people that not everyone's going
(41:08):
to have a baby and some people need that support to
find a different way or a different life a
different manage that grief process and turn it
because you cannot just keep putting yourself through it
again and again and again you know you have to there has to
be a point where you come to these decisions
and I hope that I'm somebody that I can help
(41:30):
people help make those decisions which are
really difficult to make well said
but I love the fact that I love the
fact that you highlighted that you treat people like what if that was your sister
what would you do differently I think that's a good way to look at it because
you might just take a little bit extra time absolutely she just always yeah
(41:53):
yeah that's a good way to look at it because oftentimes we don't if you look
at it as just another patient.
It's just another number but if you look at it as that's if that was your sister
yeah yeah I can't I don't have that ability and I think most of the people that
I work with and that I've brought onto this platform kind of have that too I
think we there's something about working in this world now Now,
(42:13):
of course, there's people that treat it like a job or they find a different
joy in it. They love the marvel of embryos, et cetera.
But I think the people that have been attracted to join this platform are the ones similar to me.
They have this outlook and this way of connecting.
And it may be learned from doing it over time or they've just always been like that.
It's just working in this world, it's just, it's crazy what we get to do.
(42:37):
It's the most personal thing. Oh, it should be the most personal thing is having
a baby, right? You should be able to shut a door, get under a cover,
turn the lights off, and only you and your partner know what you're doing. It's so private.
It's so private. And we...
Get to be part of the most, the most private, the most personal part of these
(43:00):
people's lives, their whole lives, you know, and that, I mean,
I feel tearful saying it. It's, it's profound.
And we have to, and I've always said this when I, when I've employed people
start along the way, you know, this is what you, you know, if you're new in
this field, this is what you need to get.
This isn't just somebody coming in for a knee surgery, you're invading their private life.
(43:22):
So you you take the back seat
in this you know they are like you you you've got
to find their way of getting through this now some people are fine with
it and but others are just like you know what this is i
don't even i don't want to share this with you i didn't nobody wants to be in
that fertility clinic right you do not want to be there you know no one would
choose to be in there taking your pants off you know here we go again i mean
(43:46):
god's sake you know yeah and and you know when When you have somebody sitting
in that chair with their legs in the stirrups and you're not,
you know, if you're not being absolutely respectful of what that person is in their mind right now,
they're sitting there and they've done this, they've had to do this so many times.
You know, I think that's what I've always tried to impart with people.
(44:07):
That's what I always feel like this is, it's not privilege is the wrong word
because it's not, it's not right.
You know, that someone should be there, but I feel, I feel like I get how unpleasant
this is. So I want to try and make that better in any way that I can.
And I think that's what most of the people I work with, if not all of them, get that.
Thank you. I think many of the listeners will resonate with what you just said
(44:30):
and really appreciate that, that kind of support and respect.
And as a wrap up, Julia, for anyone listening right now, currently on their
journey, navigating that fertility journey, trying to grow their family,
what would you tell them?
Wow that's a big question okay because
(44:51):
it does it really depends on them where they
are in their place you know if they're in the beginning of
that time then this is exciting i
mean it's not exciting but it's you're at the start and you've got everything
stacked for you so keep the hope alive this is this is great you're making the
right step you know move forward make try and Because many people get stuck
(45:15):
thinking they need help,
but don't even know how to make that first step.
You know, if you're even worried about when is it that I should start seeking help?
When should I go to a professional? When should I talk to somebody?
Make that leap. Put it in your diary. Say next Monday, I'm going to call somebody
or I'm going to make that start because many people sit and wait a long time.
(45:38):
And it might be that you can wait a bit more, but go get some help or support
to make those decisions.
If you're in the middle of the journey and you're getting worn down by it.
Yeah just keep talking to people keep you know share as much as you can please
get in touch with us but i don't want to you know pressure anyone to do that
(45:59):
but i we're here for you if we can but,
you know find your people find find the people around you surround yourself
with good people and those people that are not bringing you the the right thing
that you need don't be afraid to just put those boundaries up for now cut them
off or be clear to your families you know you're not talking about this,
(46:19):
you know, it's really hard to be strong,
but if you're not getting the support you need from whoever it is that you can't
avoid, like your family, then, then just be really clear, you know,
I'm, I'm putting a boundary on this conversation for the next year.
Could you please not ask me anything anymore?
You know, it is so personal. So it's very hard to give a generic message,
but I feel for you. That's probably the one thing I want to say.
(46:42):
I feel for you. And I just genuinely, genuinely hope that, uh,
that you have some good news in the next few months.
And that's, you know, it's all I can say, I suppose, without looking someone
in the eyes and knowing their journey.
Right. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for being here, Julia.
It's really been amazing listening to you and seeing all that experience that
(47:03):
you have, but all that you're offering the IVF guide, I think it is a game changer
for many people that would seek out your support and help through as they navigate their journeys.
It really is important to find people around you that understand that can support you and help you,
explore the right clinics know the right questions to ask and be with it be
(47:27):
with you every step of the journey which is really important so thank you for
what you're doing and what you've provided to patients across the globe and
we look forward to having you again in the near future thank you thank you so
much for having me it's been lovely,
Thanks for joining us this week on the Fertility Conversations podcast.
If you enjoyed this podcast, please give us a five-star rating and subscribe.
(47:51):
Follow us on Instagram at Fertility Conversations. If there are any topics you
would like to have discussed, please send an email to fertilityconversations at gmail.com.
Be sure to tune in next week for.
Music.
This podcast is sponsored by Phenomage, finding the most suitable donor with
the matching tool for the best teams.
Hello, and welcome to the Fertility Conversations podcast.
The goal of this podcast is to create more awareness about infertility and to
provide support to people trying to conceive.
Thank you for listening today, and we hope you will be encouraged.
(00:23):
And now, here is your host, Ola.
Music.
Welcome to another episode of the Fertility Conversations podcast.
Today we're joined by a lovely guest, Julia Paget. Julia is an established IVF
clinic founder, international fertility business consultant, and embryologist.
She has worked in over 15 IVF clinics worldwide and has helped over 10,000 patients
(00:50):
to conceive thousands of babies.
Now Julia leads the IVF Guide, the the first global platform of independent
IVF professionals offering unbiased advice and support directly to fertility patients.
Julia is passionate about ensuring that everyone on a fertility journey is given
the absolute best and safest chance to achieve a pregnancy without paying over
(01:15):
the odds and without getting lost in the system.
Originally from the UK, Julia now lives in sunny Spain.
So welcome julian thank you so much for joining us today hi ola thanks for having
me yay how is it there in spain it's hot actually yeah it's hot it's lovely night i'm warm.
(01:38):
How's it in london it's great well it's not sunny it's cold and wet but hey
that's london Yeah, it is. Looking forward to the summer days.
So thank you so much for joining us today. And I really appreciate all that
you're doing because when I read
your bio, it's really amazing what you've accomplished over the years.
(02:01):
To start off, can you please tell us a little bit about yourself,
your background, and how you transitioned from being an embryologist into this?
Founder or business? Yeah, sure. Thank you. Well, thanks for having me on. It's very exciting.
Yeah. So I'm originally from the UK. I grew up on the Isle of Wight on a farm
and so very rural and then went to live, studied in, studied zoology in London.
(02:27):
So kind of got the big city thing and wanted to stay in cities.
I went to East Africa for a while as like past post university to work in conservation.
I was sure I did a zoology degree and I was like, oh, I want to work in conservation,
got myself a kind of volunteered job in Tanzania.
And during that time became really disillusioned with where the money was going in conservation.
(02:52):
And I was like, no, I'm not, I'm not sure about this. You know,
I'm not sure about this is what I want to do.
And when I came back to the UK, a guy that had moved into my flat share was an embryologist.
And this was must have been about 93 94 so
I'd never heard of that back then obviously I'd
had test tube babies hadn't heard of a embryologist had a chat with this
(03:13):
guy and it just blew my mind I was like wow
this is this is what I want to do and of course back then it was all so much
easier I mean I thought it was difficult at the time because I had to write
you know 20 letters but I wrote 20 letters got a job in in Manchester purely
I think because I had just come back from East Africa.
(03:33):
And the guy there was South African. And we had a little bit of a Swahili chat.
You'd never get into embryology these days in that way. So I was really lucky.
I got into IVF, got my first job in Manchester.
And then I was, I mean, I've been so lucky in my career, an American girl who
was extremely experienced, had come over for a kind of a sabbatical work work experience in England.
(04:00):
And she hooked me up with a job in New York, which, you know,
24 years old, this amazing job in New York.
So at 24, after two years in the UK, I was out working in America.
And I think this transition to working in America as a Brit is really mind-blowing.
There's a very, very different culture out there of very much a meritocracy.
(04:21):
If you work hard, you climb really quickly.
So my career just really catapulted quite quickly once I was in New York.
So I was there for four years.
And then I transferred to New Zealand because my sister was in New Zealand.
And there's a whole sort of personal background, but maybe I won't go into that,
sort of boyfriends and things like that.
And I ended up in New Zealand. And I ran a lab there for a while,
(04:45):
then came back to the UK because I'd actually met my husband in America, and he was then in the UK.
So I came back to the UK, dabbled in osteopathy for a while,
because actually I thought I didn't want to work in IVF in the UK anymore,
because it's just like really big differences in how it operates in different countries.
But I did end up back in IVF, worked at the Lister Hospital for a while,
(05:08):
and then ended up being really lucky that there was kind of an opportunity to
start an IVF centre in Southampton.
A doctor that I was working with was like, you know, look, we're sitting on
this referral stream for the NHS.
It's all going down the road to a private clinic. Let's see if the NHS want
to, you know, we can bring some value to the NHS by having it kept in-house if we partner with them.
(05:32):
So we did a really complicated private-public partnership and got investment
from the NHS to build what's now Complete Fertility Centre Southampton.
I was still an embryologist. I was running the lab, but I was also building the clinic,
doing the website hiring people setting up
the finance systems so it was all very challenging and
(05:52):
around that time well so probably after about five years I
transitioned out of the lab to be just the business director although I would
occasionally still go into the lab and I was still you know an extremely experienced
clinical person in the clinic so I would often get or always get like really
challenging issues when you know when anything went wrong or when there was a patient
(06:14):
that was really struggling, it would always end up on my plate.
And I think that's because I wanted it to, because I knew that I really connect.
I'm a people person. I love connecting
with people. I love hearing their stories and I want to help them.
And it was always my passion that if I had my own clinic, I wanted it to be
that if anyone came through the door, we were going to treat them as if they
(06:36):
were my sister or the nurse's sister or my best friend. You know,
like what is it you would want to give for them?
How do you make them have the best, the absolute best chance of getting pregnant?
But of course, running a business, it is challenging. You know,
you've got thousands of patients churning through, you've got staff, you've got,
You can't manage every single detail unless you're a micromanager and that's not nice either.
(07:00):
And so anyway, I was there for a number of years and we ended up selling that
clinic to Virtus Health, which
you may have heard of. They're the largest provider of IVF in Australia.
And they're one of the largest in the world in terms of cycle numbers because
they've got clinics through Europe as well. So we became their first UK clinic.
And that was amazing, suddenly being part of a big global group, the big global network.
(07:24):
And then I took a role with them that was based in Singapore,
setting up their consulting services.
So when large hospital groups come to a big organization like Virtus Health
and say, we want IVF, how do we put that in?
Then those were my projects.
And then that transitioned to helping support acquire clinics,
so mergers and acquisitions, so super interesting business stuff.
(07:47):
All in Southeast Asia, but this this point, I was working remotely from the
UK, thinking I was going to move to Singapore.
But it was around COVID time. And they were like, you know what,
you're doing the job fine, just stay where you are and keep doing the job.
And I thought, well, hang on, I'm working remotely after so many years,
you know, having to go into a clinic.
Let's make the most of this. So I upped the family and moved to Spain.
(08:10):
So that's how I've ended up in Spain, still working remotely.
So then, Then to get to how we got to the IVF guide, I left that job and thought,
how do I keep working globally?
Because I've been working globally for so long. I know that for years you have
patients, friends of friends contact you.
If you're an embryologist or a fertility nurse or you work in the fertility
(08:31):
space, and I'm sure you have this all the time, people reaching out to you going.
What do I do? I'm having this treatment in these clinics. What's my next step? What just happened?
What went wrong? And I know that when I help those people or my colleagues,
friends help those people, they tend to have a better experience because they've
got somebody on the inside, but we're not aligning with any one clinic.
(08:53):
We're not saying you've got to go to this clinic. That clinic is the only way to do it.
We know that, especially from, I mean, I've worked in so many clinics around
the world, each clinic is very different.
They're all amazing for different reasons, but depending on what you need,
and I know you know this as well, because we've talked about it,
depending on what you need personally,
what your relationship status is, whether you need donor eggs,
(09:16):
whether you need donor sperm,
whether you need genetic testing, whether you're a bit older or you actually
don't mind paying over the odds for a lot of additional things,
or you're really looking for a clinic that has that extra support and you don't
mind so much about donor because that's not relevant for you.
It really does depend on your situation, where the right clinic for you is.
(09:39):
And you shouldn't need to be traveling for it. But there's also options abroad
if you want to look at different pricing options or different donor options
or different access to different kinds of tests or services that different countries don't do.
So I thought, well, I can provide this service, but I'm just one person and
I obviously don't know every clinic.
So I started reaching out to my network of great friends that I've worked with along the way.
(10:04):
Initially just embryologists. And everyone was like, this is amazing.
You know, we want to join, we want to join. If you're going to get us,
you know, access to these patients, we know we can give so much,
especially embryologists that are stuck in the IVF labs doing IVF and ICSI all the time.
They are so brilliantly clever. They know, not me, because I came into it 30 years ago.
Nowadays, when they come into it, they are so highly, highly educated in the
(10:27):
full fertility pathway.
And they love talking to patients, but they're in the lab and they're not,
they don't have access to the patients very easily.
When patients get access to them, they love it.
So what I'm trying to do is provide a platform of getting embryologists in front of patients.
And now I've added infertility nurses because they're amazing too.
(10:48):
And I know so many of them. And before I knew it, I've got a hundred people
on this global platform.
We're in 15 countries, six continents, and it's, yeah, it's just,
it's going really fast and it's really exciting.
So that's the the synopsis yeah
that's where we're at yeah that's amazing actually and
it really is a good idea because i think oftentimes we for
(11:10):
even for example embryologists we always think they're just in the lab right
we never see them we just see the doctors and the nurses the embryologists are
back there doing what they do uh so you're now bringing them to the front of
the patients i think that's pretty interesting because many fertility patients associate
associate an embryologist with a lab. That's it.
(11:31):
So what else will they be bringing to the table by having an embryologist?
Yeah. So it's really interesting because actually, if you go under the cover
in any IVF clinic, you'll find that the embryologists tend to be doing.
Almost everything. I mean, certainly in my clinic, we were running the clinic,
right? Because I'm an embryologist, I was running the clinic,
the embryology team were my right-hand team.
(11:51):
And I've seen this in every clinic I've worked in. The doctors are obviously front and center.
They're the names in the clinic. They're highly, you know, they're essential,
obviously, they're so important.
But when they lean on the process, it's the embryologists often that are putting the pathways in place,
organizing the meetings, telling, you know, whoever, which patient needs to
(12:14):
be spoken to about what they are, the background of any IVF clinic.
And certainly in the UK, I think embryologists are much more front and center.
They do meet the patients.
There's a lot of clinics now have embryology consultations, but it's so much more than the embryos.
Like we don't talk about just the embryos. We have to know the full fertility pathway.
(12:35):
And we're probably the only people in the clinic that
know that full pathway because as amazing
as the doctors and nurses are they obviously don't know
exactly what happens in the IVF lab whereas we
know what happens in the IVF lab and we see everything else that happens too
if you know what I mean so we are very very well versed in that whole process
(12:56):
so in terms of what we're offering with the IVF guide it's not just about we're
going to talk about your embryos yes we can do that because that's important
but But more importantly,
really, is where are you going?
What tests are you having? Who do you need to speak to?
Are you lost in the system? That's what we hear all the time.
You know, look, I've been waiting for a test for so long or this clinic.
(13:17):
I don't even know whether this clinic will do what I need because they're telling
me I have to go for an appointment to even find out.
And then, well, you've spent that money on that doctor.
You've then financially and emotionally invested in that clinic.
It's unlikely you're then going to say, well, actually, no, I don't want to go here.
But you don't know whether that clinic can offer you what you need until you've spent that money.
(13:39):
Whereas through this network that we now have, say if you were in Nigeria,
for example, I could be like, okay, well, I know that there's these three clinics
in Lagos and we've got these people in these clinics.
Which clinics are you interested in? Okay, we're going to connect with those clinics too.
And then we go under the cover. We can go to the lab managers,
the fertility nurses, the lead of genetics and talk to those clinics,
(14:02):
find out exactly what's going on in them, exactly what you're going to pay.
Do they offer you what you need to offer? And then we'll also get a discount for you.
We hope most clinics will get discounts because of course, all these clinics
are saying to us, oh yeah, Julie, we'll give you some money if you send us patients
because that's how pipelines lines work.
And I'm like, that sounds great, but that is now the patient discount because
(14:23):
we want to be completely unbiased.
We don't want to be saying that any clinic is paying us.
So any kickback or offer that a clinic will give, we're asking that to be a
patient discount for our clients.
So the idea being that we'll save the patients money because we'll get them discounts.
We'll also save them money by supporting them not
(14:44):
having tests that they don't need or accessing national health
set like for example in the uk a lot of the stuff you
you need for an ivf clinic can be done in the nhs before
you get there but of course a clinic is it's not in their favor to say you could
go back to your gp i mean they do they are often very transparent in all fairness
they do say you could go to your gp and get this but some clinics might not
(15:05):
or you by the time you've got there you may just be like okay i'll just spend
the money and to get quicker but we can helped you find out, okay,
you can get this done with your GP, but you don't need that done.
And for this clinic, you don't need to have those kinds of tests first, et cetera.
So we can save you money in that way. We can save you time because we're going
to get you where you need quicker.
(15:26):
And a lot of people I find are really stuck in the system doing things that
they don't need to be doing because their local doctor that isn't a fertility expert, like their GP,
for example, says, oh, you need this, this, and this, and you've got to go to
this hospital and have this scan and then wait six months for that result.
And actually for what they need, it's not relevant to their treatment pathway.
(15:47):
But so they're kind of not getting focused information. And then we also say
we save you stress because we're going to be like your buddy.
It's like your support person through it. That's like your friend, but it is an expert.
And we're never going to be sort of saying, oh, the clock's ticking.
You've only got an hour with us.
You know, If you have appointments with us, it's as much time as you need,
(16:08):
as much access as you need, et cetera.
That sounds amazing. And actually, it is really good to hear that because,
I mean, the kind of support you're providing, because when you think about it,
when you noted earlier that waiting with a doctor, maybe a GP for six months
for one test or the other,
six months is a long time for someone trying to do fertility treatments.
It can make a huge difference yeah you don't want to
(16:30):
see people waiting six months that's not cool that's not
cool on a fertility journey your biological clock is is
ticking you know and we all know that and you know it more than
anyone and so by the time you then get to that first appointment you are so
stressed and so anxious because there's been so much build-up just to get that
one appointment with the doctor and then we find where you go into that appointment
(16:51):
with the doctor and when you come out you're like i don't know what he or she
just said to me because Because it's so huge, right?
And that's why we can be there either on speakerphone for your appointments so we can listen.
We're not going to interrupt that doctor. We don't want to make him or her feel uncomfortable.
We're not there to question the doctor. We are purely supportive,
(17:12):
but we'll be listening so that afterwards when you're like, I don't know what
happens, we're like, okay, so this is what they explained to you.
If we think something's not been covered, we can raise a hand and say,
oh, could you just tell her this or that?
You know but equally we're there as a
as a calm expert pair of ears I mean
we can even go physically to the appointment if you want us to but even we
(17:33):
can just be on your speakerphone it's a lot easier for you and then we can just
decode that for you afterwards okay right you know this is what happened this
is what you need to do you're going to see the nurse so we're just there as
your friend it's almost like an extra partner especially for single women that
are going through this I know single women often have a mom or a sister or a
friend that might do it with them and that's great.
But we could also be that person if they don't want to be sharing or they don't have that extra person.
(17:57):
And I definitely met them along the way. I've met the single women that don't
have the support person.
And I know they need so much more and different kind of support.
They don't have someone to go home with and talk it through.
And, you know, so we can be their partner through it, you know.
That's a pretty cool addition to actually what you're offering.
Because again, oftentimes when you go as a fertility patient to the clinic,
(18:21):
even if you you have a partner you might not go with that partner and even even
if you do go sometimes you're just both you're both overwhelmed your mind overwhelmed
you're not really listening and you're not really asking you don't even know
what the right question to ask is exactly.
Exactly. I mean, I've been there for other different types of appointments,
but I know, I know, I mean, we would always get those, you know,
(18:44):
I've had, whenever I speak to a patient, it's, well, I had a doctor appointment.
I don't really know what happened.
I think we're doing IVF, you know, and then they'll wait for the nurse call.
And they've got to see, they won't, you know, the clinic will pick them up.
But that stress, that anxiety, we know that's not helping your situation.
We want to keep you as calm as possible. sport. We know how the stress is so
(19:07):
enormous through it, right?
And I can't say I can take that away because we can't.
But just know that you've got somebody, when you're trying to call your clinic
and they don't answer because all clinics are so busy that sometimes you've got to wait.
If we could take that off you and just say, okay, well, I'll call the clinic.
If you've got a question, if I don't know the answer, which we may just know
the answer straight away because it's just a normal standard question.
(19:30):
But if it's like I've run out of medication or I'm bleeding and what should I do?
We can take that off you. We can be the person between the clinic and just be
right in there because it's just easier for us to manage.
And so it's like you've got your personal nurse or embryologist with you on
the phone through your whole cycle.
(19:51):
We're not charging you by the hour. It's just a set fee.
And we hope that that takes the pressure off. The other thing that we're really
excited about is we're developing an app.
And we really think this is going to be a game changer because we're so global.
We've got this app coming where you will literally, anyone on a fertility journey
can go into the app, first of all, for free, just get a lot of information as
(20:13):
you would anywhere about IVF.
And then you've got a question. You're like, I've got a question.
You just pay a really small amount and you can ask a chat, like a chat question.
And that will initially go to the IVF guides in your country.
If they don't pick it because they'll have said they're available and if they're
not available say it's the middle of the night it will go wider to your continent.
(20:35):
And then if it's still like for any reason that they're not available to go wider to the world.
And hopefully, so people have things like the Uber of fertility,
because whoever picks it up, yeah, you know, there'll be your IVF guy.
And because we're vetting everybody, okay, so everybody has to speak English,
obviously, as a baseline, but we've got so many different languages on the on the system.
(20:56):
It's wonderful, because we've got all these different countries,
they've all got to have had at least five years post qualifying experience as
a nurse or a a fertility nurse or as an embryologist, they've all got to have
worked in at least two IBF clinics.
And then, of course, according to their country, we're making sure they've got
the right registration, qualifications, et cetera. The people I'm meeting are amazing.
(21:17):
I mean, they're just absolutely wonderful. And most people have got 15,
20 years experience because they're so interested in doing something a bit different.
You know, they've been working in their IBF clinics for a long time.
This isn't necessarily attracting the younger people because they're happy learning
the ropes in the IBF clinics.
We're attracting the people that have been in it 20, 25 years.
They're sort of thinking about what's my next step? Do I have to keep commuting?
(21:40):
I'd really like to work remotely.
So we're getting amazing, I mean, really big names in IBF joining the program and our platform.
So no matter who your answer is from, it's going to be someone extremely reputable,
extremely experienced. So that's really exciting.
And then on the app, if you have your your small questions answered and you
think this is really cool. And you can scroll through all the IVF guides.
(22:03):
You can look for specialisms. Whether you want a nurse, embryologist,
you want someone who knows loads about genetics or donor or anything specific,
research, anything specific to you.
And you say, yeah, I like the look of her or him. I want to work with him.
And then you pay a little bit more and you then have full access for a month
to that IVF guide, video calls, as many as you want for that price. Because we believe that.
(22:26):
No one's really going to want to talk to someone for more than three hours.
So we're literally saying, we're not saying you get two appointments or 10 appointments.
It's just, if you want to see them every night or three times a day for the
next month, go for it because that's what you get as part of this.
And then when you've selected that option, you then also get access to these discounts.
(22:48):
And we want to have discounts with more than 50% of the world's providers.
So not just IVF clinics, but semen analysis tests, blood tests,
ultrasound scans. All tests, yeah.
Yeah, so wherever you are, we'll always give you at least three options for
any of those things and hopefully a discount so that we're never saying,
(23:09):
yes, if you need a semen analysis, you've got to use this provider or you need
a doctor, you see that doctor.
We'll always give you three of what we believe is the best option.
And it won't just be this one person making that decision either because
we've got these clinical governance committees in each territory
so that say you came to me in Lagos
again and said for example and said okay I'm
(23:31):
seeing this IVF guide I want treatment there that IVF
guide would then take it back to our Africa committee who would say then and
say okay I'm looking at these clinics for Ola what do you think and then that
committee would say okay well have you tried this this and this because I know
these clinics and these doctors so we've got this by by contacting one IVF guide,
(23:52):
you've got the network and it will be constantly reviewed.
Are you feeding back? Are you building that information back?
So each client is actually getting access to the world's IVF guides.
So we think it's pretty cool. I think it's amazing.
I love the sound of it. And even when you speak about sperm and stamen analysis,
so with you having that guide and all of that, if a patient,
(24:14):
for example, is needing or they're dealing with male factor infertility,
you can then And say you can then perhaps advise them on the clinics that have
special specialties in that area so that we know to only go to those clinics
as opposed to finding out much later.
And what we're finding is because we are attracting the top people in the game,
(24:39):
in the field, I mean, we're getting top andrologists, top embryologists, top geneticists.
So it doesn't matter where you are.
If you're in Mexico, we have people that are so global and so eminent in the
field that we can say, look, this person's a really specific issue with their sperm.
You know, it's quite rare or it's quite, well, that just goes straight to the
(25:02):
most eminent person that we've got, you know, and then they feedback, oh yeah, I know.
Oh, they're in Mexico. Okay. Yeah. No, I know. I have these contacts.
I have this, this, and this. So it's crazy what we're delivering.
I mean, just our WhatsApp group alone is blurring everybody's mind because we
are suddenly, instead of us all being working for different clinics,
we're suddenly part of this incredible world organization.
(25:24):
People are calling it their family already. It's so exciting. exciting so
so from our side we're loving it and we
hope I love it thank you yeah we're
just trying to get the word out because it's very difficult to it's
one of these services that is actually so exciting
but actually quite hard to distill into a nutshell you know
I've been talking 20 minutes because there's just so many and then there's
(25:45):
this and there's this and there's this so we're trying to kind
of get it really clear messaging but it's quite hard
to make it really really clear what is
it we're actually doing yeah which is
great i think it seems almost like your fertility support
the coach but also knowledgeable fertility professionals
right you can provide information about the clinic to choose you can advise
(26:09):
them in terms of you know even when they have questions for the doctors what
questions to ask and and that's that's a whole lot that's what people need when
you're going through fertility treatments because it's.
So many questions, so many concerns. You need to feel like you have some kind
of person that understands, but understands from the professional part of it
(26:30):
and can advise you how to go.
Yeah, because there's a lot of confusion out there. There's just so much out there.
And I know that there's so much amazing offerings out there.
But I know if I was a patient, I'd be like, where do I start?
Do I start with the special juice?
Do i start with the saying else do i start
(26:52):
with the mindfulness i mean that's a good way it's all
great it's all good but it's like but you know what what
do i what do i really need or i haven't got much money or i actually have loads
of money and i'm happy to spend oh you know so we can we can support with you
know what's right for you what what are you exactly what is specific for you
not for your friend not for that person you heard about yeah and your budget
(27:13):
yeah and yeah Yeah, exactly.
And then the other, we're so excited as well that it's not maybe so relevant
for your audience, but we, or maybe you do, you have an audience of clinics as well.
I don't know, but we are also providing professional services to clinics because
of course we've got all these embryologists and nurses and we're like,
look, you know, we can provide outsourcing.
(27:34):
So these people want to work remotely.
Nurses and embryologists can do so much work outside of
the clinic so we're also supporting with that kind
of the the outsourcing support stuff for clinics
too which is which is really cool because that's kind of quite novel too for
people to be working remotely in that way so yeah well it sounds really exciting
(27:55):
and for people that are listening and wanting to reach out to you what's the
best way to reach you at the IVF guide yes so So they can find us on Instagram,
the.ivf.guide, or my WhatsApp,
plus34, because I'm in Spain, 683-133-799, or our website is ivfguide.co.uk.
(28:18):
We are going to be changing that because it doesn't sound good at being a UK website.
It started with just me and then suddenly like, okay, I'm global. Everybody.
I didn't really set out to do that. So I've gone to domainlane.life,
but I haven't got to transfer it over.
Yeah. Sounds great. I'll put all the details in the show notes so people can reach out to you.
(28:40):
And I know that you noted earlier, we talked about the fact that you've worked
in over 15 IVF clinics across the globe.
So what would you say are some of the differences in patient outcomes based
on the country and what's been your experience?
Yeah, it's interesting. It's very different. I mean, you would know that even
(29:01):
in any country, there's a huge range of success rates, right?
I think probably in the UK, you could say the success rates span from 20% per
cycle, per embryo transfer, 20% birth, up to something like 60%.
I mean, that's a big range, right?
Now, if you talk to those clinics, say the 20% clinics, it's quite likely they'd
(29:25):
be saying, oh, we get all the older patients.
We get the patients that have gone everywhere else, et cetera.
But my personal experience is the clinics with the best success rates tend to
have the trickiest patients because the patients that have tried everywhere
else, they're the ones that are really now shopping around. They've had their two, three cycles.
(29:46):
They've gone to their local clinic because their doctor or their friend said,
oh, yeah, the doctor is nice or whatever.
Then they're like, OK, I'm still not getting pregnant.
What next? What next? This place has got 60%. I'm going to go there.
And so those clinics with the 60% rates tend to be, I believe,
I mean, obviously there's a big.
(30:07):
Plethora are out there, but the ones that I'm aware of and that I've worked
with, they are the absolute best because they've got these patients that have
had so many cycles elsewhere. They are older.
They're using donor sperm and genetics. They've got real complex cases.
And then they still get the 60% pregnancies or the 40%, say,
(30:29):
in those difficult groups, etc.
And that upsets me because there shouldn't be this disparity.
Certainly working in America, from my experience, were the best clinics in the
world in terms of outcomes.
What I learned there and how you can manage a fertility patient was wonderful.
(30:52):
From my stage of my career, being in my 20s, being exposed to that level of
detail and perfection and obsession obsession with getting people pregnant was
totally mind-changing for me in terms of what I was wanting to achieve.
I've obviously found that difficult because I'm not a doctor.
I bring one part of the equation, the lab side of things, and you need every part of it to marry up.
(31:18):
So certainly for me, America was the pinnacle in terms of outcomes.
But those were the clinics that I worked at. I know that there's some clinics
that are not so amazing, perhaps, but and equally, it's very expensive in America.
So one might argue, well, they have the time and the money to put in the extra
(31:38):
stuff, the time to give that focus.
Certainly in the UK, our doctors usually have different commitments with the
NHS, et cetera, et cetera. So.
You don't necessarily get that
level of focus or time that perhaps brings everything a bit further up.
Now, the standard patients, I know there is no such thing as a standard patient,
(32:00):
but for your first cycle or second cycle, then most clinics are probably giving a similar outcome.
It's just when it becomes more complicated and you're not getting pregnant.
Or things don't go well in the cycle.
It's like, you'll see the clinics that get the
absolute best success rates are the one that sort of treat the
whole system as if it's the formula one racing car you know
(32:20):
it's like well if you if you just wax the wheels
or if you've got a different driver or if you if you
change the bonnet to go a bit faster because you
won't necessarily see the difference with it
with the one tiny change but if you make every tiny
change constantly and every day are you are you
honing that racing car honing honing honing you know
(32:41):
and again coming back to that are you treating her like your
sister if that was your sister you know is that
the time you would do that egg collection is that the you
know is that the time you would do the insemination would you
have been quicker doing that would you have made that judgment quicker
or answer the phone quicker any of those things you know so I suppose the other
(33:01):
place I can comment on is New Zealand I worked there I think working in New
Zealand was just fantastic I mean they are so far away they a five-hour flight from Australia.
Like when you live on the North Hemisphere. You think it's just right next door.
I know, right? I know. I mean, it's crazy.
You live in the Northern Hemisphere, you're like, oh, Australia,
New Zealand is all there.
(33:23):
You fly over Australia and then
you sit on that plane another five hours before you get to New Zealand.
I mean, there is nothing around New Zealand. So you kind of think,
and then when you get to New Zealand...
They're like the coolest, loveliest people. There's something,
they call it the Kiwi ingenuity.
Like they've had to reinvent the wheel on everything because they can't get supplies in.
Like by the time things come in, it rots or it goes off. Or,
(33:44):
you know, so everything you do, you have to kind of think about differently.
So when I got there, they were one of, I was working in the capital of New Zealand,
Wellington. They were the only clinic in Wellington.
They had partner clinics in two other towns and there was only one competitor in the South Island.
So they had no competition right so many people
(34:05):
would be like well we've got no competition doesn't matter
but they were obsessed with being
the best they want because they're so little because they're so far away they
have this attitude that they want to be a global player and you see that with
their prime ministers and that you know they they have big presences in the
world stage because they want to be taken very seriously because they are so
(34:27):
they apparently it's got something like the highest percentage of entrepreneurs
per capita or innovators or something,
you know, because they're so outward looking because they're so far away.
I mean, it's fascinating.
So for example, when I was there, I was like, you know, you don't have a heated stage.
You know, it's a basic thing in an IVF lab is to keep the embryos warm when
they come out of the incubators. And they're like, well, we just have to work really fast, Julian.
(34:48):
I was like, no, no, no, you've got to have a heated stage. And they're like, we can't afford it.
So normally one of these pieces of equipment would be 50,000 pounds at least, something like that.
And they They sent me this man with a little leather bag and a hammer and a welding kit.
And he's like, right, what do you need? You know, old glasses and stuff.
He's like, what do you need? I'm like, well, and I had to draw him a picture of what I needed.
(35:08):
And he literally welded me up with a bit of soldering, a plate that would go
over my microscope to keep the embryos warm. It worked perfectly.
It was probably $100 or whatever, you know. And it's like, you know,
they have to reinvent the wheel on everything.
And so our outcomes were amazing, phenomenal.
That yeah not quite not quite as high as america but almost
(35:30):
it was up there and that was a start i learned so much from
that they were also super switched on in how they
looked after their staff how they used the counsellor for supporting each other
they placed huge importance on respect for the local community and the maori
and how we had to they have different beliefs in how we treated the embryos
and it was just it was really wonderful for me as a sort of little you know young person
(35:54):
coming from the other side of the world to kind of learn about this different
way of working. It was quite wonderful.
That's amazing. Yeah, I love it.
And it's good to see that there's difference, you know, in each country as there
is in different clinics as well.
Oh, you learn so much from working in different, yeah. And I've worked in Southeast
Asia as well. And they were just really cool, very subservient to the doctor.
(36:16):
The doctor is absolutely in charge, you know, even though they're absolutely
brilliant in the lab too.
But yes, very, very, very much focused on success.
Success and but interestingly I thought this was quite
interesting is that they're when I said to them so how
often you know how do you manage your patient complaints and
they're like so this is Singapore they're like our patients don't complain we
(36:38):
don't we don't have and you think well they must be amazing right you know but
actually it's because the culture like in England I think we're pretty good
in the way we look after we're you know comparison to Spain where the patient doctor.
Relationship is interesting say that they
don't sort of value the privacy say so much
in Spain you know there's a little bit more undignified the
(37:01):
way they treat you but it's wonderful but but in
England we're very careful about privacy confidentiality paperwork
making sure everyone's looked after well-being's okay but English
people complain a lot it's just we do and and
if you don't you know obviously in in the field that we
work in if you don't have a baby and then something
you think well they weren't that nice to me
(37:23):
at that point well then you might write a letter of complaint and then that takes
up a huge amount of time for the clinic and that's okay because we're
always learning from that and we're getting better and we get that feedback that's
fine you know we encourage that and support it in Singapore that
doesn't happen they just don't complain it's a they would never
raise their hand so maybe that's not great in some ways
because they're not being heard when things aren't you know
(37:45):
aren't so good I don't know yeah that's interesting yeah yeah
it's funny right because I guess yeah you
do want to complain or find a way to give your
feedback be heard yeah yeah to say what you
felt and what could have been done differently exactly I'm proud of us Brits
for being able to feed that back although on the other side it can be quite
(38:07):
overwhelming because you start to think you're really bad you know you're like
oh god are we really bad at this it's actually no we're not it's We're just,
we're listening, we're listening.
That's what it is. And I think for, you know, something like fertility treatments,
because everyone comes with different hopes and dreams and the reality that's
not guaranteed, but you know.
People are not going to be happy if the outcome is not what they expected. And it's hard, right?
(38:34):
It's hard. And the other thing that we know in the field is that fertility patients aren't ill.
You know, they're not like, you're not going for heart surgery or cancer surgery.
You know, most of the time, obviously there are cancer patients in there. So in general,
you're a well person that has had this awful thing going on with you that is
an illness in another way,
(38:54):
but you're physically well and fit and strong and
therefore you are you're fighting right you
come in you come in or you come in excited and
then it can turn to a you know
a sort of fight inside you which is completely understandable because it's like
I need this I need this to work right and so when things when you see something
(39:17):
that you don't think was right it's reasonable to say well I I don't think that
was right because if that took my chance or, you know, it's fine,
you know, so I think you should be heard. I think you should be heard.
And that's what I actually loved. That's the part I loved in my role at Complete
Fertility was that I was kind of usually first line for anyone with,
you know, a problem or a complaint because I knew I wanted to hear,
(39:40):
you know, I wanted to hear that and I wanted to try and help them and unpick
it because if someone's not, if it's not going through right,
well, we need to help that.
We need to solve that for you. We don't want to be defensive.
And say, oh, we didn't do it. We're going to fix it right now.
You know, let's get this right for you. So I sort of, I didn't enjoy it necessarily,
but I wanted to be that person because I knew that I had that personal need
(40:02):
for them to have it right, you know, rather than be defensive. Right.
And that's a great energy to take into the IVF guide because that's what people
need, right? They need people to hear them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, my family tell me I'm an over empath.
Do you know what I mean? I'm just like, oh my God, all the time.
(40:24):
I feel I get that feeling from people.
I just want to make it better.
I just want to make it better. And I'm really proud and so grateful for the
career I've been able to have to help people.
But I carry with me the people I've not been able to help always.
And, you know, when people say, oh, what a rewarding job. I'm always like, no, no, no, no, it's not.
(40:48):
It's not because I just see, you know, wherever you work, there's always going
to be a chunk of people that don't have a baby.
And that's tragic, you know, to me. and I
want to make sure that I can do as
much as I can to help them get that baby or find another
way if that's not going to happen you know I think it's also really important
to acknowledge to people that not everyone's going
(41:08):
to have a baby and some people need that support to
find a different way or a different life a
different manage that grief process and turn it
because you cannot just keep putting yourself through it
again and again and again you know you have to there has to
be a point where you come to these decisions
and I hope that I'm somebody that I can help
(41:30):
people help make those decisions which are
really difficult to make well said
but I love the fact that I love the
fact that you highlighted that you treat people like what if that was your sister
what would you do differently I think that's a good way to look at it because
you might just take a little bit extra time absolutely she just always yeah
(41:53):
yeah that's a good way to look at it because oftentimes we don't if you look
at it as just another patient.
It's just another number but if you look at it as that's if that was your sister
yeah yeah I can't I don't have that ability and I think most of the people that
I work with and that I've brought onto this platform kind of have that too I
think we there's something about working in this world now Now,
(42:13):
of course, there's people that treat it like a job or they find a different
joy in it. They love the marvel of embryos, et cetera.
But I think the people that have been attracted to join this platform are the ones similar to me.
They have this outlook and this way of connecting.
And it may be learned from doing it over time or they've just always been like that.
It's just working in this world, it's just, it's crazy what we get to do.
(42:37):
It's the most personal thing. Oh, it should be the most personal thing is having
a baby, right? You should be able to shut a door, get under a cover,
turn the lights off, and only you and your partner know what you're doing. It's so private.
It's so private. And we...
Get to be part of the most, the most private, the most personal part of these
(43:00):
people's lives, their whole lives, you know, and that, I mean,
I feel tearful saying it. It's, it's profound.
And we have to, and I've always said this when I, when I've employed people
start along the way, you know, this is what you, you know, if you're new in
this field, this is what you need to get.
This isn't just somebody coming in for a knee surgery, you're invading their private life.
(43:22):
So you you take the back seat
in this you know they are like you you you've got
to find their way of getting through this now some people are fine with
it and but others are just like you know what this is i
don't even i don't want to share this with you i didn't nobody wants to be in
that fertility clinic right you do not want to be there you know no one would
choose to be in there taking your pants off you know here we go again i mean
(43:46):
god's sake you know yeah and and you know when When you have somebody sitting
in that chair with their legs in the stirrups and you're not,
you know, if you're not being absolutely respectful of what that person is in their mind right now,
they're sitting there and they've done this, they've had to do this so many times.
You know, I think that's what I've always tried to impart with people.
(44:07):
That's what I always feel like this is, it's not privilege is the wrong word
because it's not, it's not right.
You know, that someone should be there, but I feel, I feel like I get how unpleasant
this is. So I want to try and make that better in any way that I can.
And I think that's what most of the people I work with, if not all of them, get that.
Thank you. I think many of the listeners will resonate with what you just said
(44:30):
and really appreciate that, that kind of support and respect.
And as a wrap up, Julia, for anyone listening right now, currently on their
journey, navigating that fertility journey, trying to grow their family,
what would you tell them?
Wow that's a big question okay because
(44:51):
it does it really depends on them where they
are in their place you know if they're in the beginning of
that time then this is exciting i
mean it's not exciting but it's you're at the start and you've got everything
stacked for you so keep the hope alive this is this is great you're making the
right step you know move forward make try and Because many people get stuck
(45:15):
thinking they need help,
but don't even know how to make that first step.
You know, if you're even worried about when is it that I should start seeking help?
When should I go to a professional? When should I talk to somebody?
Make that leap. Put it in your diary. Say next Monday, I'm going to call somebody
or I'm going to make that start because many people sit and wait a long time.
(45:38):
And it might be that you can wait a bit more, but go get some help or support
to make those decisions.
If you're in the middle of the journey and you're getting worn down by it.
Yeah just keep talking to people keep you know share as much as you can please
get in touch with us but i don't want to you know pressure anyone to do that
(45:59):
but i we're here for you if we can but,
you know find your people find find the people around you surround yourself
with good people and those people that are not bringing you the the right thing
that you need don't be afraid to just put those boundaries up for now cut them
off or be clear to your families you know you're not talking about this,
(46:19):
you know, it's really hard to be strong,
but if you're not getting the support you need from whoever it is that you can't
avoid, like your family, then, then just be really clear, you know,
I'm, I'm putting a boundary on this conversation for the next year.
Could you please not ask me anything anymore?
You know, it is so personal. So it's very hard to give a generic message,
but I feel for you. That's probably the one thing I want to say.
(46:42):
I feel for you. And I just genuinely, genuinely hope that, uh,
that you have some good news in the next few months.
And that's, you know, it's all I can say, I suppose, without looking someone
in the eyes and knowing their journey.
Right. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for being here, Julia.
It's really been amazing listening to you and seeing all that experience that
(47:03):
you have, but all that you're offering the IVF guide, I think it is a game changer
for many people that would seek out your support and help through as they navigate their journeys.
It really is important to find people around you that understand that can support you and help you,
explore the right clinics know the right questions to ask and be with it be
(47:27):
with you every step of the journey which is really important so thank you for
what you're doing and what you've provided to patients across the globe and
we look forward to having you again in the near future thank you thank you so
much for having me it's been lovely,
Thanks for joining us this week on the Fertility Conversations podcast.
If you enjoyed this podcast, please give us a five-star rating and subscribe.
(47:51):
Follow us on Instagram at Fertility Conversations. If there are any topics you
would like to have discussed, please send an email to fertilityconversations at gmail.com.
Be sure to tune in next week for.
Music.
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