The Scottish Estate Episode

In this episode of the GunsOnPegs Podcast hosts George Browne and Chris Horne are joined by special guest Jamie Blackett, a former soldier in the Coldstream Guards, renowned author, columnist, farmer, political activist, and Scribehounder. We delve into Jamie's passion for nature, his pursuit to preserve British countryside values through his books, and his son's award-winning rum-making venture. 

As the end of the shooting season approaches, in Whose Bird is it Anyway and Unpopular Opinions we tackle the topics of tipping the keeper on a beater's day and wearing tweed breeks for beating. We also unearth some more forgotten drives and launch a brand new feature.

Later on, Jamie shares the history of his family's estate - Arbigland - and the many changes that the shoot has been through over the years that have led to its current form: a privately run, family shoot managed with more than one eye on conservation. We also discuss the challenges to rural sports in Scotland and the impact of unfavourable legislation on communities in Scotland. 

Providing insight into rural narratives as they play out in legislatures, the press and online, Jamie challenges political and media opposition to shooting and rural traditions and makes a compelling case for the need to refute misleading news, and to tackle sensationalism on social media. 

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Music.

(00:08):
Hello and welcome to the Guns on Pegs podcast. I am George Brown.
His name is Chris Horne. Say hello, Chris.
Hello, George. How are we doing? Yeah, very well, thank you.
It's not too long since we saw each other.
We've been sitting in the car for about eight hours together,
haven't we? We have, yes. Do you want to say why?
We've been shooting, obviously. Yeah, no, we decided to travel to Wales and

(00:33):
go and have some fun because that's what you do at the end of January.
Yes well i've got to say like it's
obviously something that you've you know you've shot in that part of the world
a fair bit before but it's the
first time i've experienced you know
what you'd call high bird shooting i don't
would you it was anything that we saw yesterday extreme

(00:53):
does it count as extreme or yeah yeah
a few of them were do you know what i loved so we were at old long mountain
what i loved about that shoot is that they were
just constantly really really good birds like
they weren't sort of like some of the world shoots where they're
all just out of range and i think i don't know
i find that demoralizing but they weren't they

(01:14):
just had it was a really good shoot i enjoyed that and i like like you say if
you're used to shooting partridge land in hampshire wales has proper mountains
doesn't it certainly hilly yes demoralized is an interesting word i don't think
i was ever quite demoralized because i didn't i didn't really expect to hit hit anything.

(01:36):
So when I did, it came as a very nice surprise, but I was chatting to someone
this morning about it and they said, what was the ratio?
And I said, well, the team's ratio was about six to one.
And then they said quite, quite...
Insightfully and what about your ratio and i said well yes it was a multiple of that.

(01:57):
Six to one i mean that's quite a lot of missing isn't it but i think that's
a nice little spot for a really like if you're on a high bird day i think any
more than that and there are lots of shoots where people shoot consistently
worse than that and i that's where i sort of start to lose it but but a lovely
part of the world and very nicely done i thought yeah it was it was very good worth Worth it.
Very much worth it. I had a lovely time.

(02:19):
But enough about our jollies and japes. Why don't you tell everyone who our guest is today?
Absolutely. Our guest today, gosh, he's got a good bio. I like this one.
He was in the Coldstream Guards to start with. Well, obviously after lots of
things, but that was the first major moment.
He's a farmer. He's an author. He's written two books that Guns On Pegs podcast

(02:40):
listeners are most likely to have come across.
They are Red Rag to a Bull and its sequel, Land of Milk and Honey,
which tell how he arrived home from military duties to take over the family
estate, Arbigland, which is up in the borders. He's a political activist.
I think probably a right term. We'll come back to that in a minute.
He's a columnist for the likes of Daily Telegraph, Country Life.

(03:01):
And of course, he's a scribe hounder. A lot of you will know him from that platform.
So a massive warm welcome.
Please put down your gun cleaning rods and put your hands together for Jamie Blackett.
Hello, Chris and George and the listeners.
Thanks for having me on. Good to have you with us. Yeah, it's a pleasure to have you with us, Jamie.
Your political activist statement, are you okay with that one? I guess so, yeah.

(03:26):
I mean, that's a sort of catch-all, isn't it? I think a lot of journalists are
also politically active.
I did stand for the Scottish Parliament at one point unsuccessfully,
but I think we made our point about Nicola Sturgeon and the way things were going in Scotland.
And i do what i can i mean i you know i sort of fell into writing
sort of slightly sort of almost by mistake really and

(03:47):
it gave me a platform to to write about the things
i care about and you know as i've written on scribe and the
countryside is in a bit of a bad place at the moment some
ways and so it's good to be able to defend it
to be given a platform to defend it in the daily telegraph and other
places i imagine that whole that whole period of
of that bit i mean as you say you've touched upon we'll get

(04:08):
back on to scottish politics later because it is tricky and it's
certainly different uh to where we are at the moment but
that that that challenge you sort of set yourself i
imagine you didn't expect to to get you know huge gains but it was a case of
making a point in terms of what you were doing because of the way that things
are changing so much yeah well yeah i mean i wrote about that a lot in land

(04:29):
of milk and honey which was a sort of ironical title for the way things are
in Scotland at the moment, partly.
It was also about growing milk and honey.
But, well, as you say, we'll come back to it. But, you know,
it was up until that point, you know, there weren't many people standing up to the SNP.
I like to think we sort of changed the game a little bit. Very good.

(04:51):
Someone needs to. Indeed. Well, so at the risk of getting off on a very serious
footing, I think we'd better bring things back down to earth with a bit of a bump.
The way we like to start these things off, Jamie, is by having a bit of a drink.
Now, the way this would normally go is I would ask you, what's that you're drinking? So let's do that.

(05:11):
What have you got in your glass? Well, I'm just going to pour it now, actually.
My son makes rum. He had regimental ice bucket, obviously.
So I'm going to start because although people probably think I'm a sort of high-functioning
alcoholic or even a low-functioning one drinking at half past three in the afternoon,
I'm going to ease myself into it with this ready-to-drink can of lowland rum

(05:38):
mixed with double Dutch cucumber and watermelon,
which actually is an ideal summer drink, but it's quite nice on a winter's afternoon as well.
So this isn't just your son making rum.
This is a serious operation that is... Sorry, I must declare,
I have what you're drinking in front of me because Jamie has very kindly sent
us both, George, these drinks.

(06:00):
And Royal Mail, in all its glory, has let you down.
It has quite badly. I'm feeling quite jealous.
So so go on then the the backstory so what's
it called and and and how did this come about his business
is called john paul jones rum and

(06:20):
he and his his business partner finn my son's got oliver oliver and finn started
this business during lockdown when they'd both lost their jobs and were holed
up in their flat in london and and they started messing about with making rum
and They now have four brands.
This is the ready-to-drink cocktail one. The others come in bottles.

(06:44):
It's based on John Paul Jones was a local hero or anti-hero,
depending on which way you look at it. He was born on this estate.
Was he? In the mid-18th century and went off to America and founded the American
Navy during the American War of Independence.
And he was the last person to actually invade Britain. So he was a bit of a traitor, really.

(07:05):
Was he if he was around today he would definitely be in
the smp i suspect but they like they liked him enough to put his name on the
cross yeah yeah no but i think because actually irrespective of his his politics
and i suppose most people have forgiven the american style for breaking away
and becoming a superpower on their own rather than the british colony.

(07:29):
You know he was the most amazing naval commander
possibly that there's ever been and he you
know he he won numerous naval battles not
just against us brits but also against the turks when he was the admiral of
the black seas fleet for catherine the great so he's the most extraordinary
man and so very good brand for somebody who had a sort of buccaneering spirit and my son's now.

(07:56):
Exporting it to america where it won a gold medal at the the big american booze trade fair so.
Hopefully it's going to be a big success story for british
exports that's exciting it's very cool so he's
doing he's doing what he's doing well then i mean obviously that
gold medal is great but i mean is it going better than
he expected oh yeah well um you know all about startups and

(08:18):
yeah he's going pretty well he's saying it's a
hell of a journey which is a hell of a journey he's on yeah but yeah
i think it's going very well and um you know he's got some investors
on board now we're very excited about it it's being stocked in
fortnum and masons and dalesford and various spaces like that
so this is so this one i'm drinking now actually it just
slipped down very nicely on a january afternoon i think of it more as

(08:39):
something that you would drink on the riverbank in
the summer as a sort of substitute for pimps the others the
others i've got here are definitely more winter drinks
they're a sort of substitute for malt whiskey i suppose really that
you would drink after shooting on a winter's afternoon
not that people drink at tea after shoots so
much anymore in my youth everybody did but now things

(09:01):
have become a little bit more serious so this this ready to
drink can of lowland rum mixed with
double what is double dutch by the way double dutch is the new sort
of fever tree okay schwab somebody it's a sort of they're a mixer company right
okay brilliant it's really fresh isn't it it's lovely and what i'm surprised
by is I didn't realize till I opened it it says cucumber on it and I really

(09:25):
struggle to drink things with cucumber because I find that overpower everything but I.
It's lovely. I would be the first to say, if it had cucumber in it,
I wouldn't be able to get on with it. But no, it's really good.
And as you say, it's the sort of thing that you might expect to be more of a
summery drink. I think that works really well now.
Yeah. Well, I mean, it's four o'clock on a Friday, so there's not many things

(09:46):
that don't work at four o'clock on a Friday.
But so i love the brand name
that's so cool and many people will remember that during
lockdown there was a bit of a craze for sea shanties and
i had two very small children and in my quest
to avoid nursery rhymes at all costs i started
singing sea shanties to my kids when they were very

(10:08):
tiny and one of them that i was singing was
by the same guys who had the are you gonna do it it
now i'm not gonna do it now but it was
called john paul jones is a pirate okay uh
and it's a very rousing song i get
the feeling that whoever wrote the song didn't have quite the same view of him
as you do because they were rather less charitable about his exploits

(10:29):
but a very good song well they were scared of him yeah what
are they called the longest johns is the name of the band i highly
recommend people go and look it up and yes a very
good piece of branding that i i approve and i'm just
disappointed i haven't got a chance to drink it with you well hopefully
they'll get their act together it will arrive at some point and
you can you can drink it and enjoy it yeah well i

(10:50):
definitely will you just reminded me of that song that went huge at the end
of lockdown is it wellerman yeah same band gets in your head big time good so
but i have also the lone and rum i've also got lined up the ranger rum to go
with some tonic in a second and then.
Then I'm going to have this darker Lone and Rum. Here we go, on some ice.

(11:13):
That's a Providence, I think that one's called. They're all named after his ships.
Oh, that's good. And yeah, we're going to be fairly incoherent by the end of
the podcast, aren't we? But I don't suppose that will matter.
That's par for the course. Par for the course. So George, what are you drinking instead?
Well, I was trying to think of something quite short notice that would be sort

(11:34):
of on a similar sort of level. And so what I've got is something,
the most tropical sort of drink that I could find in the house.
And at Christmas, I was given by a very good friend, a bottle of orange gin, homemade orange gin.
So think slow gin, but orange.
And it's, I assume, made in broadly the same way.

(11:54):
There's quite a lot of sediment. And since it's just been sitting on the side
since Christmas and it settled right out, rather like a bottle of Orangina.
And you have to give it a jolly good shake before pouring. But actually, it's very good.
I was wondering whether it was going to be very sharp or very, very, very ginny.
But it's sort of got the same level of sweetness as slow gin would do.

(12:15):
But it tastes of orange. And it's very, very good. Very good indeed.
It's got quite a color to it. and it's sort of it's
not clear it's very sort of thick and that's all
the sediment but it's absolutely delicious i've never seen
one of those nor have i i've never come across it before i
mean you think you've seen them all haven't you but then something else comes
along there's another one that's that's a fruit liqueur can't

(12:36):
remember the brand but my mum absolutely loves it which is
a blood orange one and then there's a few marmalade ones
kicking about as well marmalade gin but this is
the first you know straight up orange one that i've
come across very good well that will will get you set to read
out some lists of correspondence well it will that is a very professional
link chris very well done so jamie

(12:58):
what we like to do now is whose bird is it anyway it's where we ask people to
send in their shooting dilemmas and their quandaries and their queries that
they can't find a way out of and they need our help with i keep all our correspondence
anonymous to protect the guilty and this one comes from somebody i have named
king edward No relation of Edward King of AYA and Rizzini.
I hadn't thought of that, but no. No relation.

(13:22):
Normally, I'm a bit more creative than that. Maybe there's a potato link,
potato clue there. There might be.
I think if they're really guilty, you should start doing that.
Just turn their first names and surnames around and just say, we've anonymized you.
Anyway, King Edward has written, Not sure if it's been asked before or not,
But where do you stand on tipping the keeper on your beaters day?

(13:46):
I would always tip on a shoot day, but I beat on two shoots.
On one, we get fed and watered extremely well with a brilliant beaters day and a thank you meal.
We always do a whip round for the keeper to say thank you.
But on the other shoot, the keeper is miserable, never brings us even a bottle
of port to share around on a cold day's beating.
And on the beater's day, we supply all our own food and drink.

(14:07):
I feel that on this shoot, I shouldn't tip the keeper as beater's day is our
day and should be his way of saying thanks to us for all the hard work we and
our dogs do throughout the season.
Am I right or wrong? This is a great question. And he's right.
We've never, ever discussed tipping the keeper on beater's day.
The beaters tipping the keeper oh jamie over

(14:30):
to you well i don't know i think i don't think there's any
hard and fast rule on this is that i mean i think uh
no i mean the the keeper may well be shooting
himself probably is on the on the beaters day
and it's probably most of his mates that he's got there uh
we we had our beaters day actually a couple of days ago and it
was all the the shoot helpers and beaters and uh

(14:50):
one or two others that that have just been invited along i
i don't think I don't think there's any necessity necessarily
under those circumstances for the keeper to be
tipped or that he would expect me but maybe it's it might
be a nice touch you know people have had a good a good see
I mean it depends very much on the shoot I guess doesn't it really I mean
some some shoots like ours where you know there are

(15:11):
our shoot helpers have boundary days and
things through the season and we don't actually have
a you know we don't have a keeper we have we do it or with
volunteers anyway so it wouldn't really apply so but you
you've you've touched upon something there in that
the term beaters day is a bit
of a catch-all for for sort of informal
days at the end of the season because sometimes they

(15:35):
are keepers days like you say where the
keeper invites mates and chooses who he wants to shoot
and sometimes they are very much for the beaters
and the keeper will still be in the in in the
line not not the gun line sorry in the beating line and then other
times they're sort of shoot owner host.
Days where they just fight along a bunch of people.

(15:55):
Who've sort of been involved throughout the year i've been invited on a few.
Of those over the years where we just sort of you know one that maybe has done
very well out of guns on pegs and just rings us up and says would you like to
come along actually whip field did that once i was shooting there on monday.
Lovely it was saturday not monday saturday last saturday actually it's it's
difficult when you shoot every day, isn't it?
To remember which one the beatest day at Whitfield a few years ago was the,

(16:22):
It's the only time I've ever been 400 out in a sweepstake. Yeah.
Too high or too low? Too low.
Yeah, I can imagine. We certainly left them a few.
Fair enough. But I mean, this question of, I mean, it sounds to me like tipping
is always discretionary.
And, you know, if you think that this keeper on the second shoot is a bit of

(16:45):
a dick, then don't tip him.
You know there's no you should never feel that
you're compelled to tip if you don't think
that a tip is warranted right yeah i
think that's right i mean it's pretty i have once seen a a
gun not tip a keeper because he just felt that he
wasn't doing his job properly but it's pretty rare isn't it i think it's sort
of expected really but i yeah you're right i mean it is entirely discretionary

(17:08):
and i think he is leading towards that with what he said you know tipping I
think expecting the beaters to tip the keeper generally to the same level is not,
I don't think that would be expected.
On the basis that you don't do beating for the money, you do it more for the
fun, but it's nice to have a little bit of reward for it.
But the tip is likely to be more than the beaters pay would be for that day.

(17:35):
Well, I mean, the beaters day is sort of in itself a tip, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, definitely. yeah so the idea of tipping because you received a tip
it's slightly odd isn't it yeah yeah i think i think it's yeah i know i think
also it's um on a lot of shoots i think there would be a bit of.
Awkwardness about money changing hands under those

(17:56):
circumstances i think um you know gone are
the days on a lot of shoots where there's a sort of formal distinction between
a keeper and beaters and guns and everybody everything quite
so a lot of shoots everybody sort of mucks in together a lot more now
don't they really uh but where he said this the
the keeper that he likes is you know brings stuff along
you know it's always basically good fun i think

(18:19):
maybe it's maybe it's a chance to bring along sort
of your concoction of slow gin as the tip type thing yeah you
know those sort those sorts of things for the keeper paul jones
rum exactly so that money money's not
the thing it's just a here's a little that you know whatever that that
each person comes up up with or even a contribution towards the day that's that's
that's maybe expected i don't know not not financially i'm meaning like something

(18:41):
to make it go better you know yeah so so i think we're on the side of this guy
generally don't tip him if you don't want to but we're a little less certain
about tipping on beaters day in general.
Yes maybe it's not maybe it's not really the thing i wouldn't have thought it
was a bit of a gray area though yeah i i think i think yeah there's a lot of

(19:02):
well i'm not sure when this pod goes out but we probably just missed beaters
day so i'll be lots of people probably listening to this will be thinking ah
crap that that solves what i should have done in that scenario.
Yesterday or whatever it is yes it is it will go
out after the event i think it goes out on tuesday which
is oh no there's still a couple of days left there might be a couple more beaters
days being squeaked in i think okay but yes very

(19:24):
good right chris unpopular opinions please
from someone that you have called anna oh king edward
well i'm it's a bit of a tricky one because i'm a
bit worried if i give you the reason i will
slightly give the game away but yes jamie was
correct when he said that there's a potato connection and that's
i think as far as i'm i'm prepared to go okay i'm

(19:47):
none the wiser no that's the point right so
we've got an unpopular opinion from someone that george is called anna who says
why are you beating in tweed bricks if you aren't a gamekeeper or in the gun
line most of us that shoot love the sense of tradition that goes with it the
tweed the socks and the garters the 11s is tipple the strange looks you get

(20:10):
at at the petrol station,
the continuing popularity of shooting brings in new ideas to challenge these traditions.
New, lighter, more waterproof and quicker-drying fabrics have been invented
that don't hold on to the musty odour of the back of your cupboard when they've
been stored since the end of January.
So why do people who aren't gatekeepers insist on wearing tweed breeks to go beating?
Generally if you're beating you'll be snagged in

(20:32):
brambles climbing barbed wire fences and getting drenched it's anything
but glamorous and if you're not going through brambles etc you're
probably going around them avoiding the job you're there to do i've
been known to wear breeks if i'm on a beat one stand one shoot
but these breeks are a 20 pound vinted bargain bought
for beaters day and small syndicates day if they get ripped or
trash i'm not going to be too concerned i leave the handmade breeks at

(20:54):
home for days when i know i've stood solely on the peg if
you're going to wear tweed breeks from one of the top outfitters on
a small syndicate shoot don't complain to your host about the state.
Of said breeks after you've been beating in them okay that
last line suggests everything where this has
come from up until that point i thought this was
just generally an opinion someone has done something and

(21:14):
complained when they've turned up beating in breeks
and this person has gone off on a rant i'm not
going through there i'll ruin my breeks yes
that's what's happened changes everything i was
thinking up until that point so what were you thinking up
until that point chris well i think people do beat
him what the hell you want to beat him but don't then

(21:37):
complain because you know the score with beating okay
yeah jamie do you agree well i don't know unless you've transgendered
anna in your in anonymizing them i
think that it's it's a bit of a sort of uh if i
can put it this way a little bit of a sort of girly obsession with
uh clothes here i don't think the blokes really mind too
much what they wear do they really but and coming from dumfriesia where

(22:00):
it rains most of the time most people would be wearing
waterproof trousers on most days over
what over whatever they've got underneath which is probably going
to be something tweed anyway particularly if they're going to be beating going
through kale or something like that yeah i don't know i mean i it wouldn't occur
to me really to where after the sort of balmy days of the new sort of trend

(22:23):
of shooting grouse in chinos what in august after those days have gone hold on.
This is not this is not a trend i've seen yet really tweet yes okay no well there's some,
enlightened more owners who tell you to turn up in chinos to shoot grouse when

(22:45):
it's very hot in August and September.
Not sure how I feel about that. Thereafter, it wouldn't occur to me to wear anything other than,
plus fours either for shooting or beating because that
because i mean you know they're designed to to you
know withstand the weather and uh thick thorns and
all the rest of it yeah i think part of the problem is that that that these

(23:06):
days a lot of the plus fours that you see advertised
or buy off the peg because they're you know increasingly there
are lots of lots of them you can buy off the peg are
made out of very thin tweed that you
would simply wouldn't have seen years ago everybody had had very thick
hairy sort of yeah yeah that's yeah
it should be sort of near enough bulletproof really yeah i

(23:27):
guess i guess there's that sort of tweet is a lot less practical
if your correspondent has whichever chromosome it
is is the female one ones then i guess they might.
Have that very lightweight sort of tweed bought through
its aesthetic appeal rather than for its practicality so
that could put them in a bit of a quandary perhaps we don't
know the gender of the person that's definitely complained and

(23:49):
that's what's caused anna to write in so it's
it's hard to say but i i have little i i
would be perfectly happy for somebody to wear breeks beating
and i have done myself and and as jamie says they are
eminently practical for it they're good for you
know going up and down hills and getting over gates and
all the sort of things that you have to do when you're beating but i

(24:12):
do have a problem with people complaining about them
getting ripped ripped because rather like
a dress shirt is inevitably going to
get red wine on it bricks are inevitably going to get
ripped at some point you just have that's just par for the
course at some point you're going to get hung up on a barbed wire fence whether
you're a gun or a beater you're going to get

(24:32):
snagged on a thorn or whatever something is
going to happen and your your bricks will be gone for the but i almost feel
like they're not proper bricks until they've been been repaired once yeah so
you know the more holes the better really yeah yeah so she's she's kind of saying
don't wear breeks beating i can i do really disagree with that i encourage.

(24:54):
Breeks on any role on
the shoot day but as you say just make
sure that if you do you you know what you're in for you're
prepared but at the same time if you
are slightly bothered and breeks are pricey versus
other garments actually they're really not when you think about it
i was about to say you know like the sealand and harkina trousers which

(25:14):
are sort of you know staples thousands pounds yeah they're
not cheap are they but they are bulletproof yeah so
that's the thing they maybe they'll last for years through
all the brambles but you gotta there's a fair outlay to get them
so i think that's fairly unanimous i
think this is an unpopular opinion yeah yeah sorry anna but i'm with her on

(25:37):
the complaining because there's definitely two opinions in here yeah very good
point very good point yeah okay finally we have have got a forgotten drive submission.
So Jamie, we've been talking for a long time about drives that no longer exist
for whatever reason and asking people to reminisce.
And I don't keep these ones anonymous because I don't feel that anybody needs to be.

(25:58):
So this one comes from Jack and Jack has written, gentlemen,
my contribution to your segment for the pod is not so much a forgotten drive,
but more appropriately lost drives.
I'm lucky enough to play a major part in the running of the chute which my grandfather
set up in the mid-70s and is continued by my father to the present day.

(26:18):
We still have a strong number of the team who were present at the chute's inception,
running 15 or so days per season.
Until the mid-2000s, the chute included a 250-acre factory site.
Surrounded on three sides by the backwaters, this island is a maze of marshland,
reed beds, water meadows, blackthorn, brackish sinkholes and dikes.

(26:42):
Willow and poplar belts and oak woods with a thick bracken floor.
The area provided rich habitat for a wide variety of game and waterfowl.
Double digits of winged species in the bag were regularly achieved.
Alas, with tightening health and safety regulations on the site,
drives such as Timbuk 2, Timbuk 3, Water Tower, Car Park, Silver Willows and

(27:05):
Main Factory have been consigned to the history books.
One of the most characterful of these lost drives was certainly the Water Tower.
The guns would line out behind a belt with a 50-foot wrought iron water tower at one end.
The drive consisted of an eight-acre reed bed riddled with brackish sinkholes
and hidden ditches that could submerge an unwary beater as they waded through

(27:27):
the head-high reeds and blackthorn.
A raised track halfway through gave the opportunity for a headcount to ensure no one was left behind.
Despite the hardship for the beaters, the guns were in a species-bag utopia.
The usuals pheasants partridges pigeons woodcock
and snipe were regularly bagged but it was not uncommon for
teal mallard coots moorhens golden plover and

(27:49):
more to be in the bag as they climbed
over the belt at the end of the drive laughs and jokes were had as someone would
empty their welly of the stinking water and dogs would reappear a different
shade from when they entered on one of the last days on main factory my father
only wanted to stand to have a go for a woodcock As the opportunity began to present itself,

(28:10):
and as my father raised his gun, an overly keen stop waved his flag and promptly
sent the Woodcock hurtling off in the other direction.
The stop was jokingly presented his P-45 at that evening's beater's meal.
Unfortunately, I can't describe every tale, but 20 years on,
these tales of the lost factory drives are regaled amongst the young and old

(28:31):
members of our shoot with much nostalgia whilst we continue to come together
to run the rest of the shoot.
It brings regular guns and beaters together and it symbolises to me what's so
important about these days, a shared experience and common ground between the
young and the old, experienced and inexperienced, the wealthy and the not-so.
A community is created by game shooting unlike any other, and its value to physical

(28:54):
and mental well-being is immeasurable.
I hope this has provided a fun picture in one's mind for you and the listeners,
and whilst these lost drives might be unique, I hope it's evoked fond memories
of your own bygone times of your own shooting adventures.
Go well, Jack. Lovely.
Great. Very good, isn't it? He hasn't mentioned why... Did he mention why it was lost?

(29:17):
Yes, health and safety. safety this old factory
site yeah elfin safety i like
the idea that you might lose beaters halfway through the drive it's that
sort of it sounds like
an amazing bit of ground what's your comment i mean a
bit older than you guys but i mean looking back through my game book
from sort of even just sort of 20 years ago hell of

(29:38):
a lot of shoots i mean i can think of about 10 just in this county alone where
i used to shoot regularly that no longer going for whatever reason and i think
A friend of mine wrote a book recently called The Lost Racecourses of Britain,
about all the racecourses that no longer exist.
And maybe there's a market for the lost chutes of Britain. That would be very interesting.

(30:01):
It's interesting that there's a crossover between what you just said.
We have a drive here on the farm called Gallops, because there used to be a
training gallops on that bit of the farm.
And I'm pretty certain that a Grand National winner was trained there.
And now I can't remember the name of the horse, which is annoying. but one
of the things that really stood out for me in this is the
names of the drives which is as

(30:23):
you know chris something i've had to be in my bonnet about for quite a long time i
love drive names i would love to
know the story behind timbuk2 and
timbuk3 but that timbuk3 is the perfect shoot drive name yeah it's it's you
could you know exactly how that came about it was a spirit movement when someone

(30:44):
was trying to explain where the next bit was and it i reckon yeah timbuk2 is
really far away and timbuk3 is a bit further away.
Yeah i would get probably yeah so i
would like to propose a new feature chris yeah
which is rather than forgotten drives your favorite
drive name and the story behind the name of

(31:04):
that drive i like that i love that it
needs the story it needs a story because yeah often
you've got a cracking drive name you can think of but
no one really knows the story good go on off
the top of your ahead yours oh well so i've mentioned
gallops which isn't terribly exciting but it does tell the history
of the place a bit we've got one on we've got one called

(31:26):
adley dell and i'm not entirely clear who
adley was or why he has a dell named after him and i dell's a bit of a strong
term it should really be called adley's depression or something like that certainly
given how the drive went this year but the most of ours are just fairly descriptive
or borrow the field name or or something like that. We do have a field name.

(31:46):
We've got two interesting ones. One, Dead Well, which is reportedly where someone fell down a well.
We have Gun Sight, where they had anti-aircraft guns during the war.
And we've also got Three Maids Hill, which is where reportedly three young ladies
were buried up to their necks, accused of witchcraft. So there's always stories.
You've done rather well in regard to the new feature there.

(32:08):
I mean, Three Maids Hill, that that's a story it's
still called yes although i've not been able to find any written
record of it anywhere if you google it you just
get the name of them roundabout oh really yeah jamie have
you got any that come to mind well yeah actually the ones here we haven't got
any particularly spectacular names but there's i shoot there's one place i shoot

(32:28):
where there's um it's one called the old woman's garden which conjures up all
sorts of images but i think i think the probably the The cottage that they went
with the garden is now a ruin.
And one imagined that at one stage they went through her garden to.
Beating out the pheasants probably in edwardian times or
something i shot somewhere the other day while there was a drive called

(32:49):
dead pole because they found dead body in
there a few years ago who happened to be a poor polish guy
who'd wandered into the wood and had a heart attack or something oh
god it's a bit macabre yeah it'll come to
me i'm sure there are i mean there's i suppose what's a
bit of a pity in some ways is um the sort of
commercialization of shooting which in many ways it's been a

(33:10):
a good thing but it's sort of you know there's now a sort of
pressure to have sort of it's become a bit like golf you have
signature drives with rather like signature holes
and people tend to call drives by
sort of silly names to to uh yes yes sort
of emphasize how high they are you know sort of north face
of the eye girl or everest or

(33:30):
something like that which i suppose is rather a shame in some ways
because there are some lovely old rather like field names you
know it's all part of local history isn't it i agree and
they tend to get lost a bit like renaming pubs so
something slightly outspoken here not for the first time i
think any drive that is named after the
intended feeling of the shoot owner on

(33:51):
the guns should be banned yeah so so any drive that's called like exasperation
or something stupid like that i just they that really annoys me yeah that's
what you're getting at isn't it yes i am a bit i am a bit although i mean actually um.
Looked at from the other end of the telescope i've got

(34:13):
a great friend where i shoot pretty much have
shot pretty much every year for the last 20 or 30 years and
one of the drives is always called the blank drive and it's
the busiest drive on the shoot well no
sometimes i have known it but not very
often we used to do it one of my best mates

(34:35):
is uh they've actually their parents have now sold it
they had their little farm in norfolk and we would walk
around the farm just getting all sorts of species and there
was one patch of the farm with a small sort of
a very small wood in it and we called it thousand bird wood because occasionally
we'd get one out of it yeah and so every time we went up there we'd be like

(34:57):
new people who hadn't done it before oh well we're going to thousand bird wood
in a minute and they'll be excited it's good i think Yeah, I like that. I like that a lot.

(35:33):
Drop us an email to pod at guns on pegs.com good well they'll be very welcome
because i was looking at looking at my garters the other day and the moth have
sort of had pretty much had them so i really so these are quite loud good yeah happy with loud garters.
So, Jamie, you've talked a little bit about your shoot at home.
Can you tell us a little bit more about it?

(35:54):
I think you run it just for friends and family and that sort of thing.
Is that right? I do really.
I mean, the shoot has been a sort of barometer really of my finances and general
well-being over the last 25 years or so.
I mean, when I was growing up, my father ran it very much on sort of traditional
lines as everybody, not everybody, but as a lot of people did in those days.

(36:18):
You know we had a full-time keeper and lots of
days and it was all pretty much kept private and then
gradually started letting a few days to
to help meet sort of rising costs and then
i i took over with actually with um really no
money in the bank at all and so we that
we then took the decision to go commercial and really let

(36:39):
it to a shoot operator as a way of keeping our keeper in a job until he retired
which and i used to get a couple of days back and how was that period for you
that's obviously a big change from what it was that must have been quite a sort
of weird thing to go it was a bit it was a bit and i i didn't uh to be honest
i didn't really like the sort of cultural,
shift very very much really but it you know it was uh it was the right thing

(37:03):
to do to keep you know to keep somebody in a job and just to keep keep things
going was it nice to have a cut a a couple of days where you didn't have any sort of involvement.
You just sort of turned up in your own shoot a couple of decent days.
Yeah, on the other hand, that's... Yes, I mean, yes and no. I mean, actually...
Felt a bit awkward really having you know sort of uh being sort of in control

(37:25):
but not in control if you see what i mean uh true yeah to be honest it became
a bit tiresome with you know having uh.
Lots of days going on around us and
a lot of disturbance probably wasn't very good for the the wildlife or anything
like that so anyway then that all came to an end and so then i didn't didn't
do anything really for a few years we just we just used to have a bit of rough

(37:47):
shooting and and shoot the odd
snipe and the very occasional pheasant and pigeons and that sort of thing.
And then I've just sort of gradually in the last few years just been building
it up again to the point where we're probably shooting sort of between 70 and
100, 70 and, well, I think our
best day was 94 this year, between 70 and 100 on about six days a year,
and doing it all with volunteers.

(38:09):
And that's very satisfying in itself, really. And everybody gets a lot of satisfaction out of it.
Absolutely. I try to look at everything that we do on the estate on a sort of
spectrum from regenerative to degenerative.
And I think there were times when we were really doing a lot of shooting and
perhaps putting down rather too many birds, where I think it was a little bit

(38:32):
degenerative for our sort of ecosystem here.
But I think what we're doing now is positive. That's a fascinating point,
that you look at it like that, because I wonder how many do,
and it is a really important way to look at it, and I think the most crucial
part you said there is for your ecosystem.
Because everything, every bit of land is so different, isn't it?

(38:53):
And what one shoot can take is a lot more than another shoot and so on.
Do you think that the shoot, I mean, I don't know how big it was, but.
In terms of sort of gwct guidelines i don't know how familiar you
are with those either but like do you think it was sort of really
over overdone or was oh i think we were probably you
know sort of within within guidelines things but it

(39:13):
but but it was i mean we were sort of
shooting sort of 150 out of 200 birds but
on but on on really quite a lot of days and and i
think we possibly were putting down too many i mean certainly when
we stopped for example we'd had quite a large buzzard
population probably fed on on quite a
lot of well poults initially but then then birds that

(39:34):
hadn't been picked or whatever later on in the season whatever and uh
you know and and that that just went
back down to sort of normal levels afterwards and you know now we have a few
buzzers around but they're not they're not really an issue and what is the ground
like jamie what what's the what's the terrain and and the makeup well it's it's
it's coastal it's quite low lying i think the The highest point is 150 feet

(39:58):
above sea level or something.
But we've got sort of undulating, it's basically sort of two valleys really
with a sort of hogsback in the middle close to the sea.
So we've got a couple of cliff drives where we stand some of the guns on the beach. Oh, wow.
We've got quite a lot of snipe bogs, so just sort of marshy areas close to the
sea or along the side of a burn.

(40:18):
And most of the woodland now is sort of deciduous woodland.
We're trying to get rid of all the spruce and that sort of thing,
beech and oak which is sort of you know what the
pheasants pheasants like which is i mean down in hapshire you've got a lot of
that but up here it's comparatively rare really most shooting is in coniferous
woodland yeah so it's it's a typical sort of low ground shoot really and you're

(40:40):
a big hunting man as well do you hunt over the land there we do hunt here but uh it's increasingly.
Hard with the new law we have the we have the kennels here i
rarely get on a horse these days myself i think my
back is pretty much jiggered really and but
uh yeah i enjoy my hunting but but sadly i mean the
the the law in scotland has has really made

(41:02):
it very difficult we can only use two hounds at the moment so so that came in
three months ago it came in it came in at the worst possible time because the
we just started and and hounds were really starting to get sort of fired up
and we're going really well and then and then they brought in this virtual ban
really saying we could only take two hounds out at any one time.
So it was a bit like, I mean, our huntsman George said that...

(41:24):
It's a bit like a university where you got to the end of freshers week and said,
right, that's it now. We're in lockdown now. No more parties.
And these poor old hounds went ballistic, sort of locked up in kennels and hardly going out.
So it caused a real problem, actually. What's the score with the hounds then now?
What's your plan? Well, we're having to reduce the numbers and we're hoping

(41:47):
to get licenses to be able to carry on doing what we were doing,
which was using a reasonable pack of
you know sort of up to 14 couple of hounds to
flush foxes out of woodland to guns but that
may or may not be be possible i don't know
we're we're applying for licenses we'll see what what
the civil servants serve up have there have there been

(42:08):
licenses given to others so far i think
there have been something like two given out in the whole of scotland so
far that's uh to be expected isn't it
yeah and so it's very
very difficult and you know our huntsman george and
his partner polly i mean they they sadly are leaving to find pastors new because
they you know understandably they don't want to carry on under these circumstances

(42:31):
and and that has a direct impact on the local economy and you know they've got
a a child who their son was about to start at the village school and i won't
be and that you know the village school is in danger of closing because of numbers.
And, you know, that's one more young family driven out of the Scottish countryside
because of the prejudice of politicians.

(42:51):
And, you know, we talked a little bit earlier about your activities on Twitter and your activism.
And when I hear you talking about it like that, it kind of makes a lot of sense
why you would be so vocal.
And I think it drives home how important activities like hunting are.
Stalking fishing shooting are in you

(43:14):
know the the more rural areas you know i suppose you know i shouldn't really
say it but i don't suppose that if shooting and fishing and hunting were banned
in and stalking rather were banned in hampshire it would actually have all that
much of a negative impact on the the local economy you know there's a lot of
other stuff going on here.
But but up in your neck of the woods there's not there's not

(43:34):
quite so much and and the local local communities in
the villages and the shops and the schools and the pubs and
all that sort of thing you know they do rely on there being a permanent population
and they also rely on people coming in
from outside to enjoy those things don't they yeah completely uh
and you know what's what's ironic is
that you know jobs are jobs are being destroyed the

(43:55):
whole time by artificial intelligence you know there are there
are there are fewer petrol pump attendants or hardly
any now and there won't be many checkout girls soon or
you know all these bank banks are closing the the whole time and all
these jobs are being destroyed but that you know the jobs that
that can never be done by robots huntsmen and
keepers and stalkers and gillies i mean

(44:16):
and these are these are ironically the jobs that we're losing at
the moment and they're not they're not being replaced by wildlife rangers or
anything like that because you know those you know there are there are those
jobs but i mean they you know they're there anyway they're not going to be necessarily
any more of them by stopping hunting shooting and well fishing is in danger
of stopping So yeah, it's a real issue.

(44:38):
You know, fortunately, we have a very, very good Scottish Gamekeepers Association
who are, you know, have a sort of authentic blue collar voice, which mine isn't.
And they are listened to a little bit by the politicians.
But, you know, we've got this green coalition who really don't like the traditional
way the countryside is managed with field sports and farming.

(45:00):
They would prefer to see everything wilded and all the jobs go.
They don't really care about them. that that's the last that last thing you
said is it isn't it they just don't care there's just not even a
consider for the consequences is there it just
at all costs we want it gone because that's our opinion is is
that is that the feeling well i think in some ways they they quite like
to make it worse they make the the worst things are and the more chance they

(45:22):
have of of you know bringing about the sort of revolution they want and you
know so they really know they genuinely don't care and a lot of things they're
deliberately making worse i think i wanted to ask you jamie Because I know that
the way you run your farm is very considered,
and we got hints of that with you talking about the way you measure activity
on the farm, regenerative and degenerative, I should say.

(45:44):
Where do you stand on the concept of rewilding? What's your view?
I think it sort of kind of depends. I mean, there's a lot of misunderstanding
about rewilding from a landowner's perspective.
You know we've all been doing a lot of this stuff for years really
it's just we haven't really been calling it rewilding necessarily and

(46:07):
there's a there it's not a binary thing between
farming and rewilding uh you there's a spectrum that we're all on which has
at at one end possibly your friend king edward if he's a a large arable farmer
growing potatoes and cereals and things in a very intensive way,

(46:27):
which we need if we're going to carry on feeding ourselves.
And at the other end of the spectrum, you've got somewhere like NEP,
where Charlie Burrell is doing great things, not by completely rerunning,
but actually by farming on a very extensive basis with longhorn cattle and.
Pigs and deer and and x more ponies
and you know and everybody's sort of on that spectrum and and

(46:49):
it it doesn't necessarily mean that all of your farm
is on any particular one place on that spectrum you
you have some bits that are that are farmed very intensively and
other bits that are effectively really almost rewilded
you know we we've got patches of scrub and weed beds
and willow lots of willows and that sort
of thing and and some of our woodlands have been allowed to

(47:10):
get get very overgrown with fallen trees left
lying and that sort of thing cattle now in the in some of our woods
so i'm i'm all for a bit more of it have you
have you got bits around you being bought up for for you
know the the rewilding that is you know kick
everyone off and plant trees or is that yeah there's
quite a lot of that going on yeah and you know

(47:31):
again again the the uh the net effect
is is detrimental because the shepherd loses his
job there's a little bit of money changes hands with
people actually planting the trees but then you know you
go away leave them for 30 years and then go back and thin
them if it's commercial for us and if it and if it's just
trees being planted just to you know on a sort
of non-commercial basis then there's even less

(47:53):
work for them so it's it's a there's a real hollowing out at the moment and
we've seen this week on the in the highlands they've taken a leaf out of the
french book and got on their tractors and are starting to complain about the
new clearances, really, that's happening.
I think with all this sort of worrying negativity, and not negativity on your

(48:17):
part, but towards these communities, I was going to ask you,
what is it that you think people should be doing?
Because it feels like a bit of a tidal wave, as you say, because of their desire to...
Achieve a certain amount of change i mean getting
any tractors and organizing a very french style rally
is is is one thing you can do what would be your your message

(48:39):
to others to to sort of try and arrest this change well
i don't know i mean it again it sort of depends really
you know i mean we've we've embraced change here and brexit was a wake-up call
for us we weren't we weren't farming efficiently enough we changed what we were
doing we brought in a new zealand style dairy and that and that touchwood has

(49:01):
worked really well and we've created lots of jobs doing that.
And but also done in such a way that we've we've actually it's been better really
for wildlife with our bird counts have gone up a lot that's good to hear for
others you know they're in a difficult a difficult place if their land isn't
i mean we're at sea level here if you're farming
up in the hills and uh you know i

(49:22):
think the government cynically both governments in Scotland and
at Westminster I think cynically probably talk a
good game about supporting farmers but would quite like to see a lot less
farmers really I don't I'm not sure they're really that
bothered I think they I think they feel that you know
if a bit of a bit of disruption might be
a good thing it might might drive less efficient farmers out give others an

(49:44):
opportunity perhaps to farm in a in a in a better way but also that if if lots
of land goes out of production and is wilded or more trees or whatever,
then that's going to help them meet these spurious net zero targets.
Targets i mean i think you know we're in a so we're in a we're
a lot of people are in quite a bad place and of course you know most

(50:07):
just well not most but a lot of estates have got
these traditional tenancies which means that there
simply isn't the flexibility to change and you
need to you need to change to the new circumstances but
a lot of people simply can't do that and that the farms are too
small probably to to make a go of things
and you know you've got you've got the older generation probably
keeping going at all costs because they're they've

(50:30):
got their house gross is part of the tenancy they might
not be making any money but they have a free roof over their heads
younger generation maybe don't want to come back because they
can see that it's not going to work and yeah so
we're we're heading into a really sort of
interesting and and for many people a very upsetting and difficult time in farming

(50:51):
at the moment but jamie before christmas you wrote a very powerful i thought
piece on scribe hound about what you think people can do Maybe it's your military
background coming through.
I get the feeling that you want to take the fight to Westminster,
to Holyrood, and not just lie back and be conquered, but to try and do something about it.

(51:15):
Perhaps without repeating the entire thing, perhaps you can summarise for anybody
who may not have read the article what you were saying in that piece.
Yeah, well, I was saying that people really need to engage in the battle of
ideas that's going on at the moment.
I mean, we've got a clearly defined opposition to us, people like George Monbiot

(51:37):
and Chris Packham, who really do want to change the British countryside in a very profound way.
And in some senses they are winning in the battle on the airwaves.
They get a lot of time on the BBC they've got their Guardian columns and so
on and unless people are prepared to engage with them then you know.

(52:03):
Don't blame me if we turn around in 20 years' time and say, God,
bloody hell, it's all gone. Where did that go?
Because it has already happened effectively with hunting, really,
in Scotland, and it may well happen quite quickly in England as well.
And the next the next target is definitely
going to be shooting you can see it in the proposals
for licensing and we had

(52:24):
a foretaste of of what licensing means this last
summer 2023 when there was a real attempt
to to stop shoots close to
environmentally protected areas to
have the ability to put down birds we've seen it
we've seen it with restrictions on larson trapping and
every year seems seemingly another another species

(52:46):
gets protected another predator species you
know and it's all that the chipping away is happening and
farming as well i mean you know we we may well have restrictions on livestock
farming and and that sort of thing so i was yeah i wrote on scribe and say look
there is this battle going on we we our generation has has a unique ability

(53:07):
that has never happened before to engage with everybody on social media.
If you tweet something and it's sufficiently interesting or thought-provoking
and you do it in such a way with hashtags and tagging in the key people and the rest of it,
you can be pretty certain that the point you raised will be seen by members of the cabinet.

(53:29):
That ability has never ever been there before i mean our generation has that
ability but we and and the other and the other side the mobios and the packers
as well they've been very clever at at utilizing that and they've you know they've
mastered social media they've they've all got thousands of followers.
Which amplify their their voices and we on our side have been really slow out

(53:51):
of the blocks on this one so i was saying look everybody must well first of
all subscribe to scribe ham which is now where all the ideas are being debated, it seems to me.
But also, they need to get on social media.
And my article was promptly disagreed with by Patrick Galbraith in a later argument,
who believes that we shouldn't engage.

(54:14):
But I really think that...
You know we've seen we've seen what's happened with hunting we don't want
the same thing to happen to to shooting so it's very
important that people get on there even if even if it's just
you know posting positive pictures of what
they're doing for for wildlife laying hedges or whatever it is richard negus
is very good a good example of somebody who's always posting positive stuff

(54:37):
on there who's obviously also a keen shooting man and and much of what he does
is working on shooting estates where people want their hedges to be laid for
partridges and that sort of thing.
So, you know, this is all positive stuff that needs to get out there.
And if we don't brag about it and say, this is what we're doing,
and we wouldn't be doing it if we weren't also shooting, then the message isn't going to get across.

(55:00):
And there are a lot of people who are sitting on the fence who are pretty neutral
journalists and broadcasters,
and they need to be made aware of what's
going on and also we need to be able to refute a lot
of the lies you know there are there's a lot of false narratives out there
that if they're not refuted and andrew gilruth i
would single out somebody who's a a real countryside hero standing

(55:22):
up for the moorland communities defending
grouse shooting and and the management of
of moorland and unless we get
out there and sort of counter some of these false narratives as he
does then don't be surprised if an incoming coming
labor government is very heavy-handed with
the countryside and and brings in all sorts of very unhelpful legislation

(55:44):
that that that will really stop what we're doing
your your piece got me thinking as well jamie in a short while
after i wrote something that was very much inspired by yours
and i think that there's two elements to this one is
the broadcast element of it the the broad
scale social media element to it where you're trying to talk to as many people

(56:05):
as possible and i I feel very strongly that we all have an individual responsibility
also to try and increase the understanding of the people we meet who are not
as part of our world on a sort of one-to-one basis.
And I think that that's the other really important part of it is,
you know, start dishing out the pheasant, take people for a walk around the place.

(56:28):
You know, think about the way you engage with members of the public who are
on footpaths on your place, that kind of thing, I think is super, super important.
And if you can, you know, the Charlie Jacoby, I think is makes the point that
most people are pretty ambivalent, they don't really feel that strongly one
way or the other until they're.
They get asked and then you know

(56:49):
if you've done a bit of groundwork there there's a greater probability of
them coming down on on our side yeah because they normally get asked a sort
of leading question yeah and these poles you know normally pretty pretty damaging
because the poles are a weapon rather than you know a barometer and they're
used by the other side the whole time to.

(57:11):
And i suppose used sometimes by the countryside allowance really to
to uh try to well i mean they're such
rubbish aren't they because you know a local village in west
wales can be campaigning on what it should do about its
badges or something and it would get like 30 000 people signing it most of which
live in deepest australia and but the problem is it says 30 000 on it and so

(57:34):
they go oh my god our village really cares about this despite there being only
500 residents and yeah And so these poles aren't worth,
you know, two pennies, but some stupid people seem to be swayed by them,
which is just beyond belief.
Yeah, because as you say, I think most people, I mean, we, you know,

(57:55):
we have, we're in a high tourism area here.
We have seven holiday cottages here.
We have a footpath running through the middle of the place. and I can really
hardly think of any times when I've had any sort of negative comments about
hunting or shooting the hounds are,

(58:17):
exercise twice a day around the roads so you've got people in cars coming past you've got.
Walkers you've got people in the holiday cottages they're coming past their
windows in the morning and i've had lots of positive comments so it's people
saying how nice it is to see them,
i'm going to genuinely say i've never had anybody saying you
know we shouldn't you shouldn't be doing that it's so

(58:38):
good to hear that and these are mostly
people i mean most of our people are our horticulture come from the big
cities in the north of england manchester newcastle places
like that and i think you know i mean maybe it's a northern thing
i mean maybe if if if i was down in the south of england it might be slightly
different we don't get many some of our tourists come from the south of england
but most of them are from the north probably but and likewise you know but it's

(59:01):
pretty obvious that we've got pheasants around i mean we obviously try to try
not to be too sort of obvious about where we're putting pens or feeders or anything
but but very little negativity.
And yet, you know, within the media, you know, it's almost as if it's a done
deal that most people want this to stop. I mean, it's extraordinary, isn't it?
And I think that what you said actually is the truth.

(59:24):
That's what the vast majority of the UK population doesn't care. They're ambivalent.
They're open to being educated about, well, this is our way of life here and
this is what happens, and they're quite happy with that. And I think,
as you say, the media sways it because the media model is broken.
I mean, without wishing to get onto the business point, but that's one of the
reasons we're so passionate about ScribeOut, because these guys have to produce

(59:46):
sensationalist rubbish to get clicks to feed their business model.
So in turn, they're responsible for, you know, for increasing the anger amongst
the country, because that's the only thing that makes their business work.
I mean, it's an absolute travesty, but it's just something that really frustrates me.
And I've noticed it more in the last year than ever. The quality of some of

(01:00:08):
the content being put out by major news organizations is it's just it's it's
journalism created off social media.
Like someone posted this and someone fans are up in arms after someone commented
this. And it's like, that's not journalism.
I mean, it's just it's just taking the most outlandish stuff out there and saying
this is the mood of the nation. Well, that's right.
But I mean, that rather proves my point that if you're not on social media,

(01:00:30):
you know, then it's just leaving the field open to them.
Because yeah, it's, I mean, it's, it's lazy journalism, but it does happen the
whole time that, you know, even on the, even on the sort of 10 o'clock news,
somebody will, you know, they will quote something somebody said on Twitter.
Yes. Well, it's only to feed the, yeah, to feed the model even more.
But I think it's, you know, we're coming to the end of a shooting season. It's January.

(01:00:57):
The weather's been grim. You know, I had no electricity one day last week and
I had no water two days later.
And, you know, it can be a pretty bleak time of year. And some of this conversation
could potentially sound a little bit on the negative side.
But i think certainly last
week was it even earlier this week there was one

(01:01:17):
very positive news story that was all over the papers former podcast guest louisa
clutterbuck of eat wild getting getting venison and pheasant into nurseries
and and schools is incredibly positive and some stadiums and football stadiums
and stuff as well so that's a brilliant good news story.

(01:01:56):
Yeah, you're right.
And and it really does make a huge difference that
yeah i i completely agree that you're right to have
pointed that out because it did get major coverage in the times didn't it
and it comes back to social license if
people are seeing game it's more acceptable to
then well obviously that game needs harvesting so i understand
that that's social license and and so

(01:02:18):
yeah getting people to try it given that
it's the end of the season and there's going to be a lot taken away
of shoots over the next however long just getting
that into the mouths of those that might not have tried it before only
did once 10 years ago that would be a really good thing to do agreed
yeah definitely right jamie the last
part of this pod the way we like to finish it

(01:02:40):
off is with desert island shooting the situation is that
the extinction level asteroid hits tomorrow your
affairs are in order your loved ones and enemies reconciled your dogs are fed
and your tomatoes have been watered your last day begins how well I I mean actually
I just I really like shooting here I think you're saying that maybe I should just.

(01:03:05):
Get on a plane and go and shoot dubs in argentina or something i probably
would like to go and do once maybe but um i uh
i just really like shooting here because i notice things i
mean i know things wherever i'm shooting but it's there was a
particular pleasure to me to shoot here because i
you know if a if a duck comes which
is a really have wild duck here comes off a pond that i

(01:03:25):
have dug and comes over and gets shot which it did this year
you know that is that is this culmination of years of
of work getting that to happen and the same with
the snipe and and pheasants coming out of woods that i have
planted and the rest of it so i think i would uh i would
like to spend perhaps spend my last day reflecting back
on on uh with particularly the link back to my childhood and everything you

(01:03:47):
know all my strong memories are here i mean there are there are i'm very blessed
really i shoot at lots of wonderful places and and this shoot is really voxel
league compared to to something I talked about shooting with my cousin.
John Blackett-Ord at Whitfield last weekend.
And, you know, that is a fantastic shoot, isn't it? And they do things so well there.

(01:04:10):
And, you know, there are many much better places to shoot than here.
But I think that to me the shooting
is the ultimate sort of fulfillment of
years of conservation and planning
and planting and digging ponds and creating wetlands
and and that sort of thing and and so that would

(01:04:31):
be my day what would that look like what would it how would it begin well
i think we i think i think uh hopefully i.
Would have sort of close family and and and and
close friends here many of whom have shot here
for many years and and we would yeah we
would have a day it might be rather difficult to get beaters if
the world is about to end uh so we

(01:04:51):
have to be uh sort of walking and standing
i don't think anyone's observe that point yeah and
realize that you might struggle but it
would be the kind of day that we we normally have on boxing day with
with with family and and you know
all the nephews and nieces shooting and and we
wouldn't necessarily do the the sort of big drives not

(01:05:13):
that we have really going for big drives here but
we were you know we would do some of the the wilder parts
of the estate the snipe bogs and maybe try for
a goose it's very exciting if you and put 3 000
geese over a line of guns driving them
off a field that sounds amazing and
i think we would go for a definitely definitely be

(01:05:37):
a species day rather than a you know trying trying
for a big bag when was the last time you put 3 000 geese over a line of guns
i haven't done it this year i failed to do it this year but last year i did
it on my daughter's day and they came they managed to get them so they came
over you know at a shootable height which is very important you don't want to
wound them and i think yeah i think they got two or three so yeah that's.

(01:06:00):
And then we probably add you know shoot into that we shoot into the dark we have a,
have a duck flight and also maybe have
a few people standing where they're close to the jackdaw roost and
try and shoot some jackdaws as well send them
out yeah so that would be my ideal sort of day and and actually if you got in
the guns on pegs private jet you could go back eight hours and then finish the

(01:06:24):
day with some doves in argentina okay yeah that would be that would be good
yeah and i see try it yeah yeah absolutely yes it's all possible lovely Lovely.
Sounds like a cracking day.
It does sound like a good day. I'm still really interested in this.
We need a volunteer to go back and listen to all the episodes and categorize
all of the desert island shootings to pull out the trends for proper data.

(01:06:48):
But there's definitely two camps on there, which is I want to do what I always
do with the people I always do it with.
And I want to really pull out all the stops and do something mad.
Yeah, and whatever all of them do, there's a duck involved. There's always a duck. Always a duck.
Yeah which which is very interesting great well
jamie thank you ever so so much for coming on it's been great thank you

(01:07:11):
for coming thanks guys and keep up the good work thank you
cheers jamie thanks for coming right so before we go
all that remains for me to say is that there is a final reminder that
you can get your hands on a pair of the very exclusive guns on
pegs podcast shooting sock garters by sending us your shooting dilemmas
for us to resolve or by sending us your unpopular popular opinions or by sharing
your favorite drive names and the stories behind them drop us an email to pod

(01:07:34):
at guns on pegs.com and if we read it out in the next episode or any future
episode we will send you some garters we'll be back in a couple of weeks time
with another episode but until then thanks very much for listening.
Music.