June 6, 2023 • 24 mins
In a Harvard Business Review study, 33 of the 36 women interviewed raised confidence (or lack thereof) as a central factor obstructing their own and other women’s career progression. In this episode, executive and branding coach Limor Bergman Gross discusses building confidence and finding voice in the workplace specifically along less than traditional career paths.
Discover Limor's podcast, From a Woman to a Leader, and learn more about her work at https://limorbergman.com/.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
What is your unique perspective?
What are the things that you bring?
Hi,
I'm Emily Boni,
the CEO of the Investment Banking Institute.
And you are listening to the Hurdle Rate podcast.
The Hurdle Rate podcast is an opportunity to engage in important and enlightening conversations with women in finance and business.
(00:30):
This podcast aims to elevate and empower women in the space,
bringing voice to the stories behind their successes.
In this episode.
We're going to be exploring building confidence within and along a career path,
especially for those returning to work following a career break or women in male dominated industries.
(00:52):
I'm delighted to welcome Lamour Bergman,
Gross to the podcast for this conversation.
Lamour,
thanks for joining.
Hi,
Emily,
thank you for inviting me.
It's a pleasure being here today.
Well,
Lamore is a former Director of Engineering at Digital Ocean with more than 20 years of experience in the tech industry.
She is now an executive coach for women in tech leadership that want to achieve more through a results oriented coaching process.
(01:20):
Women she works with say Lamore has enabled them to tear down ceilings by challenging them to think bigger.
They also say she opened their eyes to a new way of contributing to their careers.
Lamore loves talking about career progression in the tech industry and how to build your brand in the company and externally.
(01:41):
Well,
Lamore,
we have plenty to talk about today.
But first,
I'd love to hear from you all this experience in the tech industry.
What propelled you to this passion for mentoring women specifically in their careers?
Yeah,
that's a great question.
So it was a process didn't happen overnight.
(02:01):
Uh It started by,
first of all,
me,
always being the only woman in the room or almost the only woman.
I mean,
I,
I,
I worked mainly with men and a lot of times uh that came with uh confidence issues and doubting myself.
And uh as I grew in my uh uh in,
(02:26):
in my roles,
I wanted to make a greater impact.
I noticed that I wanted to,
to use the power that I have and uh help out of women.
I became very passionate about hiring women and uh always was frustrated by not getting enough women into the pipeline.
And when I hired women,
(02:47):
I wanted to help them succeed because a lot of times women were less likely to present themselves to,
to ask for what they should get.
And I was trying really to advocate for them and help them.
And that combined with,
er,
me started mentoring uh in 2017,
(03:10):
I think it was um kind of led me to what I'm doing today and really hitting on that point that you were the only women in the room in many cases.
And the frustration with building that pipeline,
um women make up less than 20% of C suite positions in the finance industry.
And in tech,
(03:30):
it's only slightly higher with women holding 24% of tech C suite positions.
You know,
as a veteran of the tech industry,
you talked about some of those challenges of confidence and sort of being one of the only women in a room trying to help build pipelines for future leadership.
And,
you know,
(03:51):
often in these male dominated professions,
there is this lack of confidence as you spoke to and how do you think women in these spaces like tech and finance can maintain and build that confidence,
really take ownership over who they are in the workplace.
So I think first of all,
uh understanding who they are and,
(04:13):
and what they're good at and their strength,
we,
we don't er realize enough how much we have to give and how good we are and also identifying that uh we are different,
especially,
you know,
when talking about women that are working in very male,
dominant field,
like finance,
(04:33):
for example,
in your case.
And a lot of times we're different,
right?
We're doing things differently than men,
but that's ok.
A lot of times it causes us to feel maybe we are not as good on the contrary,
we bring other things to the table.
We just need to realize that.
And,
uh,
a lot of times the work I do with women,
(04:54):
I coach is realizing their potential and their strength and what they bring to the table,
what are the unique capabilities and perspectives that they bring to the table.
And the more we realize that the better we are,
uh,
and if you cannot do that yourself,
ask for help.
(05:16):
And 11 woman,
I was uh I was interviewing for my podcast told me,
er,
I have a board of directors and,
and I asked her what it was and she said,
well,
people around me that help me,
that support me,
that I can bounce ideas with,
I can talk about whatever I,
I face whatever challenges I face and give me the confidence that I need.
(05:39):
So build your board of directors surround yourself with people who can lift you up and help you see things that maybe you don't see in yourself.
I do find um Lamo that often times having a mentor,
like you said,
a board of directors sort of team of other people around you.
They could be women or men,
it doesn't necessarily have to be women.
(06:01):
Um you know,
supporting other women,
of course,
that's always wonderful.
But that,
that idea of mentorship and finding mentors support systems,
they may not always be in your workplace,
maybe they're in a peripheral industry,
walk us through that.
How do you go about finding a mentor and advocating for yourself because it is difficult to ask for help.
(06:24):
I mean,
at least I'm speaking from my own experience.
How do you find that board of directors,
that group or even single mentor that can really help build you up along your career path?
Yeah.
I mean,
uh,
if you,
if you cannot find anyone within your company,
then uh find opportunities to network and meet like minded people,
(06:45):
er,
it can be virtually or in person and nowadays,
I mean,
things are back,
hopefully,
right?
They are back to how they used to.
So go to meetups,
go to,
er,
er,
communities that you,
you know,
that you like and uh connect with like minded people and you don't have to worry about too much about,
(07:06):
oh,
I,
I'm looking for a mentor rather than I'm looking for like minded individuals that I can talk to,
the more you do it the better,
you know,
uh chances that you'll find some people and you can build your kind of network with people that can support you if you want some official mentor,
there are a lot of platforms that offer some of them paid,
(07:29):
some of them free mentorships,
especially for women.
There are a lot of organizations and nonprofits that offer mentorship for women.
So you can actually look for mentorship programs if you want women only or in general and,
and find a mentor there.
The idea of seeking out like-minded individuals helps some of the pressure off the idea of I,
(07:52):
oh I need to find a mentor and that you're sort of putting that on that quote unquote burden on someone else.
And it's really just about conversing with networking and sort of keeping an open mind to people who are like minded.
I,
I think that does take some of the pressure off finding a mentor specifically.
(08:12):
I also think another component of building confidence specifically in the workplace is finding your voice.
What advice do you offer?
The women that you coach or women in general who are trying to find their voices in the workplace?
It goes back to what I said earlier about realizing what is your unique perspective.
(08:33):
What are the things that you bring if you don't know,
ask for feedback,
feedback is crucial and,
you know,
I always had managers,
uh that didn't give me good feedback.
Few of them actually gave me good constructive feedback.
Many of them just said,
oh,
you're doing great.
So,
er,
if someone tell you something like you're doing great,
(08:54):
try to ask them.
Ok,
what,
what,
what do you mean?
What are the things that I'm doing that are so great,
uh,
and try to understand what kind of value do you bring and don't shy away for being different.
It's,
it's actually a good thing in,
in many ways,
you know,
and I noticed that every time that I was challenging,
(09:18):
uh,
my managers and I was bringing a different perspective and I didn't shy away from saying it.
Yeah.
And in,
in a way that will be respectful,
er,
but still they really appreciated it and they wanted to hear my opinions.
So don't be afraid to share your perspective now how to do it.
(09:44):
That really depends on the culture and the company you work for it can be in a one on one setting at first and you need to build,
you know,
the relationships that will allow you to be transparent and as you feel more comfortable and if that is appropriate or in meetings,
(10:05):
you know,
you talk about this,
sharing your unique perspective,
you know,
not shying away,
even if your perspective or your idea is different than,
than those in the room.
I really do think the heart of progression is the diversification of ideas.
This is where creative solutions come up.
A combination of,
(10:26):
you know,
critical thinking,
analytical thinking and then all different ideas that can come together to create creative solutions for many of the issues facing,
you know,
the world today,
whatever industry you might be in,
whether that's tech or business and you know,
sustainability,
a variety of fields.
And I I I think when you open yourself up to that the diversification of people and ideas,
(10:50):
that's where we can really come up with some really wonderful solutions,
ideas and innovation.
Um And in,
in these various industries,
like we keep going back to tech,
business,
finance,
there's this idea of ambition and women are expected to be ambitious.
And I think we can often have one view of what that looks like,
(11:13):
which may hinder our own confidence,
our own voice.
What does ambition or being ambitious in the workplace mean to you,
Leo and what are the differences do you think in the perception of what that is?
And,
and what could it actually look like in practice that women are allowed the definition of that to be unique to themselves?
(11:35):
To me?
I mean,
ambitious,
meaning that that wanting to fulfill,
fulfill my potential to contribute and the best that they can to bring my my best self and thrive and also grow and learn and expand.
That's what it means to be,
(11:56):
to be ambitious not to stand still,
not to do just what's comfortable,
but to challenge myself and go bigger and make a greater impact and utilize my skills and my strength.
That's what a what ambitious means to me.
And as we talk about what that looks like in the workplace,
(12:17):
I kind of want to pivot here to the idea of women returning to work.
And you know,
I think part of being ambitious could mean actually taking a step back,
you know,
to focus on other priorities and then returning as women return to their careers,
(12:37):
they have a unique set of of challenges how do you work with or address women returning to work after a career break?
Yeah,
I mean,
I think it,
to be honest,
it starts first with internal work a lot of times when people,
when women take breaks,
er,
maybe for caring for their Children or for,
(12:59):
er,
elderly parents,
they may feel in confident may,
they may feel they lost everything they had,
they may feel that the years that they,
uh,
stay away from work and basically that uh they didn't do anything but just realizing the,
the things that they have done,
the things that they have achieved,
(13:19):
even during the time that they took a break,
er,
and gaining the confidence back.
Now how you do that?
It could be to learn something new,
maybe learn new skills,
maybe go take a training,
er,
er,
try something different or maybe reconnect with people you worked with and try to,
(13:40):
um,
to,
to take another job,
even if it's taking one step backwards,
even for your own sake,
because you are less confident than he used to be.
That's ok.
Just get into the swing of things and get back to where you were.
I mean,
I took,
I didn't take career breaks but I did took sometimes steps that took,
(14:03):
that looked like a step backwards because I saw a potential and I,
you know,
when I started working in Digital Ocean,
I actually in a way,
took a step back because I,
I uh,
started managing a much smaller team that I used to,
but I saw the potential and I wanted to grow and I wanted to work in a startup and that's ok.
So same goes to women who take career breaks.
(14:25):
It's ok to take a step back because maybe you need to regain that confidence.
Maybe you need,
well,
I,
I,
you need some time to go back and,
and get yourself accustomed to working again.
That's fine.
You haven't lost all the things that you had in you.
I think that's very true.
The skills that you had,
(14:46):
you know,
when you sort of went off the,
the traditional path and that could look like a lot of things.
It,
it may be because you're caregiving,
like you mentioned to kids to um other family members in your life.
It could also mean because you're looking for different experience,
maybe it's a step to an entrepreneurial path or to fit other people priorities in your life.
(15:07):
It's not that traditional role and those skills that you have and continue to build are still relevant.
They don't,
they don't disappear.
Um And I think reminding yourself of that as you step back back into that,
what would be considered a traditional path really does help boost confidence.
(15:30):
This sort of brings me to looking at careers sort of in the longer term for women.
What is your advice as women?
Look not just at the immediate step but longer term,
you know,
it takes some time to think strategically about how you want your life to look like and what do you aspire to become?
(15:51):
And,
and,
and uh I think not many people,
not just women,
but in general,
not many people spend the time to do that to think about what they want in their life.
If they look five years forward,
10 years forward,
how would they like to,
to be,
what do they want to become and,
(16:11):
and how they can build the path forward?
What I like to do?
I like to do visual visualizations or vision board or some exercises to kind of think about your life as a whole,
not just career.
What do you wanna have in your life?
Long term and then realizing,
OK,
where you're at right now,
where do you wanna get to?
(16:32):
And what are the things that you need to do?
What are the experiences you have to,
to get in order to get there?
What are the skills you need to gain and start slowly building that path?
But if you,
if you don't spend time to do it,
you're just organically gonna find yourself somewhere.
It may not be a bad place,
but it's not a place that you got to out of conscious decision.
(16:57):
You're sort of one step ahead of me here because I was thinking,
does that look like just making career decisions on the longer term or sort of looking at the career as a one piece of a larger puzzle.
And then how do we do that?
Um I've said before,
I love a good action item.
And to think that you can use something like visualization,
(17:19):
a vision board to sort of map out a long term vision that may just not be a job title or um other things like a salary,
but may mean looking at a larger picture and how your career,
your career path fits in with that is,
is that sort of what you advise women to do?
And also realizing that uh first of all things may change and uh there are multiple possibilities,
(17:46):
not just one,
there's not just one,
a path you can uh march into.
There are a lot of possibilities and,
and your needs and wants may change.
And that's ok.
As long as you grow and evolve and you gain more skills,
you gain more knowledge,
you experience new things,
(18:08):
you get out of your comfort zone,
you,
you challenge yourself.
Yes.
Uh you know,
like for me,
I mean,
I,
I never thought I'll become a coach.
I always thought that I'll be in tech until I retire.
But at some point,
I realized that I didn't want to do it anymore and I wanted to make an impact elsewhere.
And I realized,
ok,
what do I do in order to do a coach?
(18:29):
Ok.
I decided that I wanted to go full blown,
you know,
take a six month coaching certification,
which another six month with practicing coaching and getting the certificate and all that.
And that's what I did,
which is ok,
I mean,
not always you have all the answers,
but I think trying to picture how you want a life or be,
(18:51):
what do you wanna have in your life?
What are the things that are important for you?
You can do it every once in a while because maybe things will change and,
and then realizing,
ok,
what do I need to focus next and,
and start building some goals for yourself?
But Lamar,
I can tell you're definitely having an impact today for our listeners,
you know,
sharing this advice,
(19:12):
this expertise,
things they can sort of take with them.
Um,
after they listen to this podcast,
we,
we've touched on a lot here today,
but is there anything that we haven't discussed that you think is important to mention?
One of the things that,
er,
I think women don't do enough is building their brand and advocating for themselves.
(19:37):
And this is one thing that they want to leave the listeners with,
don't shy away from uh doing your own pr in the way that works for you.
But uh there's so many women I work with and uh and a lot of times we go on linkedin profile because I'm,
I'm really passionate about linkedin.
I love linkedin and this is one way right to showcase who you are and what you do.
(20:00):
And so many women feel uncomfortable sharing their expertise,
their achievements,
you know,
talking about themselves.
You know,
I had a woman who,
that a coach that they had to write her own promotion letter,
you know,
because her manager left and she had to uh write her own letter.
So the hr you know,
where a business partner will send it on her behalf and she felt very uncomfortable with it.
(20:25):
And I said,
why do you have to feel uncomfortable?
This is the place for you to go big and,
and write on yourself all the things that you have done and why you deserve your promotion.
We don't need to be shy to advocate for ourselves.
In fact,
this is something that we constantly need to invest in and constantly,
(20:47):
you know,
promote ourselves again,
not in a healthy way and not too much,
but definitely that has to be one of the things that we do.
I've also heard a piece of advice that when you,
you have an accomplishment at work,
um or somebody gives you that positive feedback to keep a list or an excel sheet of accomplishments.
So that when you're tasked with that,
(21:07):
advocating for yourself or creating,
let's say your own cover letter,
your own promotion letter,
you can go to an already built list of things that you can sort of weave in to that because it,
it is hard to do sometimes.
And for many of us who aren't used to it.
I,
I find it very easy to tout the credentials and accomplishments of other women,
(21:30):
but often,
like you said,
shy away from doing the same thing for myself.
But I try to look at it as my best friend,
friend or my colleague were to talk about me.
What would they say?
And allowing that to shape that brand,
that list of accomplishments?
That's a great advice.
Yeah,
build,
you know,
(21:50):
even what you can do.
Another great exercise you can do is think about riding your elevator pitch.
You know what,
you know what an elevator pitch is.
Yes,
that,
you know,
couple line pitch that you could give somebody in a ride on an elevator that would talk about who you are,
what you have to offer.
Um You know,
in,
in any given scenario,
(22:10):
in this case,
we're talking about,
you know,
careers and roles at work,
just ride an elevator pitch as if you were pitching yourself to someone,
just even if you're not going to use it,
just the exercise of doing that can help you immensely.
Just realizing how good you are.
What are you good at?
Why someone should hire you,
why someone would want to work with you?
(22:31):
And I think that goes back all the way to the top of our conversation about valuing yourself for your uniqueness,
what you uniquely offer in your career in your workplace and being confident in that particular area and allowing that to shine rather than shy away from it.
Yeah,
(22:51):
absolutely.
And lao,
you have your own podcast yourself,
how can listeners find your podcast?
And also where can they find you if they're interested in learning more about what you do my podcast,
uh The,
the easiest way to find it is go to my website,
limo beg dot com slash podcast and you'll find it and all the links to all the,
(23:12):
you know,
to the podcast uh platforms.
And uh you can contact me via my uh website and also on linkedin.
I usually recommend people to go to linkedin.
It's the handle is Leo Bergman and find me there and follow me and that's the best way to get to know me and what I do.
(23:33):
Thank you for sharing that information.
I'll make sure to include it in the description of the podcast and also thank you Lamar for sharing all your advice and expertise today and your story.
So,
thank you.
Thank you so much for joining the Hurdle Rate podcast.
Thank you so much,
Emily for having me.
It's been a pleasure again.
I'm Emily Vani Tune in next time as we try to answer what is the minimum return we expect from the investment in ourselves and one another.
What is your unique perspective?
What are the things that you bring?
Hi,
I'm Emily Boni,
the CEO of the Investment Banking Institute.
And you are listening to the Hurdle Rate podcast.
The Hurdle Rate podcast is an opportunity to engage in important and enlightening conversations with women in finance and business.
(00:30):
This podcast aims to elevate and empower women in the space,
bringing voice to the stories behind their successes.
In this episode.
We're going to be exploring building confidence within and along a career path,
especially for those returning to work following a career break or women in male dominated industries.
(00:52):
I'm delighted to welcome Lamour Bergman,
Gross to the podcast for this conversation.
Lamour,
thanks for joining.
Hi,
Emily,
thank you for inviting me.
It's a pleasure being here today.
Well,
Lamore is a former Director of Engineering at Digital Ocean with more than 20 years of experience in the tech industry.
She is now an executive coach for women in tech leadership that want to achieve more through a results oriented coaching process.
(01:20):
Women she works with say Lamore has enabled them to tear down ceilings by challenging them to think bigger.
They also say she opened their eyes to a new way of contributing to their careers.
Lamore loves talking about career progression in the tech industry and how to build your brand in the company and externally.
(01:41):
Well,
Lamore,
we have plenty to talk about today.
But first,
I'd love to hear from you all this experience in the tech industry.
What propelled you to this passion for mentoring women specifically in their careers?
Yeah,
that's a great question.
So it was a process didn't happen overnight.
(02:01):
Uh It started by,
first of all,
me,
always being the only woman in the room or almost the only woman.
I mean,
I,
I,
I worked mainly with men and a lot of times uh that came with uh confidence issues and doubting myself.
And uh as I grew in my uh uh in,
(02:26):
in my roles,
I wanted to make a greater impact.
I noticed that I wanted to,
to use the power that I have and uh help out of women.
I became very passionate about hiring women and uh always was frustrated by not getting enough women into the pipeline.
And when I hired women,
(02:47):
I wanted to help them succeed because a lot of times women were less likely to present themselves to,
to ask for what they should get.
And I was trying really to advocate for them and help them.
And that combined with,
er,
me started mentoring uh in 2017,
(03:10):
I think it was um kind of led me to what I'm doing today and really hitting on that point that you were the only women in the room in many cases.
And the frustration with building that pipeline,
um women make up less than 20% of C suite positions in the finance industry.
And in tech,
(03:30):
it's only slightly higher with women holding 24% of tech C suite positions.
You know,
as a veteran of the tech industry,
you talked about some of those challenges of confidence and sort of being one of the only women in a room trying to help build pipelines for future leadership.
And,
you know,
(03:51):
often in these male dominated professions,
there is this lack of confidence as you spoke to and how do you think women in these spaces like tech and finance can maintain and build that confidence,
really take ownership over who they are in the workplace.
So I think first of all,
uh understanding who they are and,
(04:13):
and what they're good at and their strength,
we,
we don't er realize enough how much we have to give and how good we are and also identifying that uh we are different,
especially,
you know,
when talking about women that are working in very male,
dominant field,
like finance,
(04:33):
for example,
in your case.
And a lot of times we're different,
right?
We're doing things differently than men,
but that's ok.
A lot of times it causes us to feel maybe we are not as good on the contrary,
we bring other things to the table.
We just need to realize that.
And,
uh,
a lot of times the work I do with women,
(04:54):
I coach is realizing their potential and their strength and what they bring to the table,
what are the unique capabilities and perspectives that they bring to the table.
And the more we realize that the better we are,
uh,
and if you cannot do that yourself,
ask for help.
(05:16):
And 11 woman,
I was uh I was interviewing for my podcast told me,
er,
I have a board of directors and,
and I asked her what it was and she said,
well,
people around me that help me,
that support me,
that I can bounce ideas with,
I can talk about whatever I,
I face whatever challenges I face and give me the confidence that I need.
(05:39):
So build your board of directors surround yourself with people who can lift you up and help you see things that maybe you don't see in yourself.
I do find um Lamo that often times having a mentor,
like you said,
a board of directors sort of team of other people around you.
They could be women or men,
it doesn't necessarily have to be women.
(06:01):
Um you know,
supporting other women,
of course,
that's always wonderful.
But that,
that idea of mentorship and finding mentors support systems,
they may not always be in your workplace,
maybe they're in a peripheral industry,
walk us through that.
How do you go about finding a mentor and advocating for yourself because it is difficult to ask for help.
(06:24):
I mean,
at least I'm speaking from my own experience.
How do you find that board of directors,
that group or even single mentor that can really help build you up along your career path?
Yeah.
I mean,
uh,
if you,
if you cannot find anyone within your company,
then uh find opportunities to network and meet like minded people,
(06:45):
er,
it can be virtually or in person and nowadays,
I mean,
things are back,
hopefully,
right?
They are back to how they used to.
So go to meetups,
go to,
er,
er,
communities that you,
you know,
that you like and uh connect with like minded people and you don't have to worry about too much about,
(07:06):
oh,
I,
I'm looking for a mentor rather than I'm looking for like minded individuals that I can talk to,
the more you do it the better,
you know,
uh chances that you'll find some people and you can build your kind of network with people that can support you if you want some official mentor,
there are a lot of platforms that offer some of them paid,
(07:29):
some of them free mentorships,
especially for women.
There are a lot of organizations and nonprofits that offer mentorship for women.
So you can actually look for mentorship programs if you want women only or in general and,
and find a mentor there.
The idea of seeking out like-minded individuals helps some of the pressure off the idea of I,
(07:52):
oh I need to find a mentor and that you're sort of putting that on that quote unquote burden on someone else.
And it's really just about conversing with networking and sort of keeping an open mind to people who are like minded.
I,
I think that does take some of the pressure off finding a mentor specifically.
(08:12):
I also think another component of building confidence specifically in the workplace is finding your voice.
What advice do you offer?
The women that you coach or women in general who are trying to find their voices in the workplace?
It goes back to what I said earlier about realizing what is your unique perspective.
(08:33):
What are the things that you bring if you don't know,
ask for feedback,
feedback is crucial and,
you know,
I always had managers,
uh that didn't give me good feedback.
Few of them actually gave me good constructive feedback.
Many of them just said,
oh,
you're doing great.
So,
er,
if someone tell you something like you're doing great,
(08:54):
try to ask them.
Ok,
what,
what,
what do you mean?
What are the things that I'm doing that are so great,
uh,
and try to understand what kind of value do you bring and don't shy away for being different.
It's,
it's actually a good thing in,
in many ways,
you know,
and I noticed that every time that I was challenging,
(09:18):
uh,
my managers and I was bringing a different perspective and I didn't shy away from saying it.
Yeah.
And in,
in a way that will be respectful,
er,
but still they really appreciated it and they wanted to hear my opinions.
So don't be afraid to share your perspective now how to do it.
(09:44):
That really depends on the culture and the company you work for it can be in a one on one setting at first and you need to build,
you know,
the relationships that will allow you to be transparent and as you feel more comfortable and if that is appropriate or in meetings,
(10:05):
you know,
you talk about this,
sharing your unique perspective,
you know,
not shying away,
even if your perspective or your idea is different than,
than those in the room.
I really do think the heart of progression is the diversification of ideas.
This is where creative solutions come up.
A combination of,
(10:26):
you know,
critical thinking,
analytical thinking and then all different ideas that can come together to create creative solutions for many of the issues facing,
you know,
the world today,
whatever industry you might be in,
whether that's tech or business and you know,
sustainability,
a variety of fields.
And I I I think when you open yourself up to that the diversification of people and ideas,
(10:50):
that's where we can really come up with some really wonderful solutions,
ideas and innovation.
Um And in,
in these various industries,
like we keep going back to tech,
business,
finance,
there's this idea of ambition and women are expected to be ambitious.
And I think we can often have one view of what that looks like,
(11:13):
which may hinder our own confidence,
our own voice.
What does ambition or being ambitious in the workplace mean to you,
Leo and what are the differences do you think in the perception of what that is?
And,
and what could it actually look like in practice that women are allowed the definition of that to be unique to themselves?
(11:35):
To me?
I mean,
ambitious,
meaning that that wanting to fulfill,
fulfill my potential to contribute and the best that they can to bring my my best self and thrive and also grow and learn and expand.
That's what it means to be,
(11:56):
to be ambitious not to stand still,
not to do just what's comfortable,
but to challenge myself and go bigger and make a greater impact and utilize my skills and my strength.
That's what a what ambitious means to me.
And as we talk about what that looks like in the workplace,
(12:17):
I kind of want to pivot here to the idea of women returning to work.
And you know,
I think part of being ambitious could mean actually taking a step back,
you know,
to focus on other priorities and then returning as women return to their careers,
(12:37):
they have a unique set of of challenges how do you work with or address women returning to work after a career break?
Yeah,
I mean,
I think it,
to be honest,
it starts first with internal work a lot of times when people,
when women take breaks,
er,
maybe for caring for their Children or for,
(12:59):
er,
elderly parents,
they may feel in confident may,
they may feel they lost everything they had,
they may feel that the years that they,
uh,
stay away from work and basically that uh they didn't do anything but just realizing the,
the things that they have done,
the things that they have achieved,
(13:19):
even during the time that they took a break,
er,
and gaining the confidence back.
Now how you do that?
It could be to learn something new,
maybe learn new skills,
maybe go take a training,
er,
er,
try something different or maybe reconnect with people you worked with and try to,
(13:40):
um,
to,
to take another job,
even if it's taking one step backwards,
even for your own sake,
because you are less confident than he used to be.
That's ok.
Just get into the swing of things and get back to where you were.
I mean,
I took,
I didn't take career breaks but I did took sometimes steps that took,
(14:03):
that looked like a step backwards because I saw a potential and I,
you know,
when I started working in Digital Ocean,
I actually in a way,
took a step back because I,
I uh,
started managing a much smaller team that I used to,
but I saw the potential and I wanted to grow and I wanted to work in a startup and that's ok.
So same goes to women who take career breaks.
(14:25):
It's ok to take a step back because maybe you need to regain that confidence.
Maybe you need,
well,
I,
I,
you need some time to go back and,
and get yourself accustomed to working again.
That's fine.
You haven't lost all the things that you had in you.
I think that's very true.
The skills that you had,
(14:46):
you know,
when you sort of went off the,
the traditional path and that could look like a lot of things.
It,
it may be because you're caregiving,
like you mentioned to kids to um other family members in your life.
It could also mean because you're looking for different experience,
maybe it's a step to an entrepreneurial path or to fit other people priorities in your life.
(15:07):
It's not that traditional role and those skills that you have and continue to build are still relevant.
They don't,
they don't disappear.
Um And I think reminding yourself of that as you step back back into that,
what would be considered a traditional path really does help boost confidence.
(15:30):
This sort of brings me to looking at careers sort of in the longer term for women.
What is your advice as women?
Look not just at the immediate step but longer term,
you know,
it takes some time to think strategically about how you want your life to look like and what do you aspire to become?
(15:51):
And,
and,
and uh I think not many people,
not just women,
but in general,
not many people spend the time to do that to think about what they want in their life.
If they look five years forward,
10 years forward,
how would they like to,
to be,
what do they want to become and,
(16:11):
and how they can build the path forward?
What I like to do?
I like to do visual visualizations or vision board or some exercises to kind of think about your life as a whole,
not just career.
What do you wanna have in your life?
Long term and then realizing,
OK,
where you're at right now,
where do you wanna get to?
(16:32):
And what are the things that you need to do?
What are the experiences you have to,
to get in order to get there?
What are the skills you need to gain and start slowly building that path?
But if you,
if you don't spend time to do it,
you're just organically gonna find yourself somewhere.
It may not be a bad place,
but it's not a place that you got to out of conscious decision.
(16:57):
You're sort of one step ahead of me here because I was thinking,
does that look like just making career decisions on the longer term or sort of looking at the career as a one piece of a larger puzzle.
And then how do we do that?
Um I've said before,
I love a good action item.
And to think that you can use something like visualization,
(17:19):
a vision board to sort of map out a long term vision that may just not be a job title or um other things like a salary,
but may mean looking at a larger picture and how your career,
your career path fits in with that is,
is that sort of what you advise women to do?
And also realizing that uh first of all things may change and uh there are multiple possibilities,
(17:46):
not just one,
there's not just one,
a path you can uh march into.
There are a lot of possibilities and,
and your needs and wants may change.
And that's ok.
As long as you grow and evolve and you gain more skills,
you gain more knowledge,
you experience new things,
(18:08):
you get out of your comfort zone,
you,
you challenge yourself.
Yes.
Uh you know,
like for me,
I mean,
I,
I never thought I'll become a coach.
I always thought that I'll be in tech until I retire.
But at some point,
I realized that I didn't want to do it anymore and I wanted to make an impact elsewhere.
And I realized,
ok,
what do I do in order to do a coach?
(18:29):
Ok.
I decided that I wanted to go full blown,
you know,
take a six month coaching certification,
which another six month with practicing coaching and getting the certificate and all that.
And that's what I did,
which is ok,
I mean,
not always you have all the answers,
but I think trying to picture how you want a life or be,
(18:51):
what do you wanna have in your life?
What are the things that are important for you?
You can do it every once in a while because maybe things will change and,
and then realizing,
ok,
what do I need to focus next and,
and start building some goals for yourself?
But Lamar,
I can tell you're definitely having an impact today for our listeners,
you know,
sharing this advice,
(19:12):
this expertise,
things they can sort of take with them.
Um,
after they listen to this podcast,
we,
we've touched on a lot here today,
but is there anything that we haven't discussed that you think is important to mention?
One of the things that,
er,
I think women don't do enough is building their brand and advocating for themselves.
(19:37):
And this is one thing that they want to leave the listeners with,
don't shy away from uh doing your own pr in the way that works for you.
But uh there's so many women I work with and uh and a lot of times we go on linkedin profile because I'm,
I'm really passionate about linkedin.
I love linkedin and this is one way right to showcase who you are and what you do.
(20:00):
And so many women feel uncomfortable sharing their expertise,
their achievements,
you know,
talking about themselves.
You know,
I had a woman who,
that a coach that they had to write her own promotion letter,
you know,
because her manager left and she had to uh write her own letter.
So the hr you know,
where a business partner will send it on her behalf and she felt very uncomfortable with it.
(20:25):
And I said,
why do you have to feel uncomfortable?
This is the place for you to go big and,
and write on yourself all the things that you have done and why you deserve your promotion.
We don't need to be shy to advocate for ourselves.
In fact,
this is something that we constantly need to invest in and constantly,
(20:47):
you know,
promote ourselves again,
not in a healthy way and not too much,
but definitely that has to be one of the things that we do.
I've also heard a piece of advice that when you,
you have an accomplishment at work,
um or somebody gives you that positive feedback to keep a list or an excel sheet of accomplishments.
So that when you're tasked with that,
(21:07):
advocating for yourself or creating,
let's say your own cover letter,
your own promotion letter,
you can go to an already built list of things that you can sort of weave in to that because it,
it is hard to do sometimes.
And for many of us who aren't used to it.
I,
I find it very easy to tout the credentials and accomplishments of other women,
(21:30):
but often,
like you said,
shy away from doing the same thing for myself.
But I try to look at it as my best friend,
friend or my colleague were to talk about me.
What would they say?
And allowing that to shape that brand,
that list of accomplishments?
That's a great advice.
Yeah,
build,
you know,
(21:50):
even what you can do.
Another great exercise you can do is think about riding your elevator pitch.
You know what,
you know what an elevator pitch is.
Yes,
that,
you know,
couple line pitch that you could give somebody in a ride on an elevator that would talk about who you are,
what you have to offer.
Um You know,
in,
in any given scenario,
(22:10):
in this case,
we're talking about,
you know,
careers and roles at work,
just ride an elevator pitch as if you were pitching yourself to someone,
just even if you're not going to use it,
just the exercise of doing that can help you immensely.
Just realizing how good you are.
What are you good at?
Why someone should hire you,
why someone would want to work with you?
(22:31):
And I think that goes back all the way to the top of our conversation about valuing yourself for your uniqueness,
what you uniquely offer in your career in your workplace and being confident in that particular area and allowing that to shine rather than shy away from it.
Yeah,
(22:51):
absolutely.
And lao,
you have your own podcast yourself,
how can listeners find your podcast?
And also where can they find you if they're interested in learning more about what you do my podcast,
uh The,
the easiest way to find it is go to my website,
limo beg dot com slash podcast and you'll find it and all the links to all the,
(23:12):
you know,
to the podcast uh platforms.
And uh you can contact me via my uh website and also on linkedin.
I usually recommend people to go to linkedin.
It's the handle is Leo Bergman and find me there and follow me and that's the best way to get to know me and what I do.
(23:33):
Thank you for sharing that information.
I'll make sure to include it in the description of the podcast and also thank you Lamar for sharing all your advice and expertise today and your story.
So,
thank you.
Thank you so much for joining the Hurdle Rate podcast.
Thank you so much,
Emily for having me.
It's been a pleasure again.
I'm Emily Vani Tune in next time as we try to answer what is the minimum return we expect from the investment in ourselves and one another.
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