February 5, 2023 • 21 mins
Stephen shares a beautiful reflection of his life and how feeling like an outsider created immense loneliness for him when he was growing up. He opens up and shares how love, art and a regional move enriched his life and helped him find an ongoing decades long relationship and close network of friends.
Trigger Warning - this podcast touches on issues that may be triggering to some listeners. If you feel upset by anything you have heard on this episode or any other Pride Across the Ages podcast, please reach and seek help through Switchboard on 1800 184 527.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
- Trigger warning:
This episode contains adult content
and may be distressing for some listeners.
"Pride Across the Ages"is a collaborative project
to amplify and celebratethe voices of LGBTIQA+
living in Central Victoria.
All episodes were recordedon Dja Dja Wurrung
and respectfully recognize
that First Nations'sovereignty was never ceded.
(00:23):
This always was and alwayswill be Aboriginal land.
(gentle music)
(00:45):
- My name's Steven.
I was born in a small townto the east of Melbourne
in the hills called Warburton in 1953,
so that makes me a baby boomer.
And I identify as a gay manand my pronouns are he/him.
Childhood:
I had a lonely childhood
is probably the best way to put it.
And it was up and down.
(01:06):
I felt very loved by my parents.
And I have two sisters and a brother
who are all still living.
And school was mostly unpleasant for me.
Like, I felt sort oflike an alien, I think,
at school, like a lot of queer people can,
and just being the time that it was
(01:27):
going to primary school in the late '50s.
And I don't have very fond memories
of primary school at all, or high school.
I never understood how horrible boys were
and how they could beso horrible in gangs,
so I never liked all that andI spent a lot of time hiding.
(01:47):
And I think that was probably the story
a lot of gay men of my era would say.
My family were very workingclass, country working class.
And Dad was a truck driverand Mum was a homemaker.
And we moved to Queenslandin about form five
(02:07):
which is the equivalent of, what, year 11?
And Dad got a job driving a truck
for a road gang in Queensland,
for a road constructioncompany, so we moved.
And that was a turning point in my life
because I escaped school.
And it was wonderful because we were out,
there were no fences,
we went to the outback,
and I could roam for miles by myself.
(02:28):
I developed a love early in life
for the natural world becauseit was a comfort to me,
it was a friend that Ihad during the loneliness.
I had great difficulty making friends
because I felt like an outsider
and I couldn't relate to the other boys.
And the majority of myfriends at school were girls,
I could relate to them much, much easier.
(02:48):
But, anyway, escapingto Queensland was good
because I had this freedomand my mind relaxed.
And I would just roam into the bush
and listen to music on my...
I had a little cassette player,
it would look really archaic now.
And so music and the natural world
were my companions together.
And even today when I'm painting,
(03:11):
I'll play music and I'mtransported into that sort of,
into that world again.
And I feel, now that I've got older,
close to 70, that there's...
You start to reflect on your childhood
and you can see the similarities,
they become clearer.
All of the excitement ofthe middle of your life
starts to become less important
and you become more reflective,
(03:32):
and that's how I think about it now.
I fell in love for thefirst time when I was 16.
The other boy didn't, was...
I don't whether he was aware of it.
He might have been.
He was a very kind and gentle boy.
And so I think
it was love from adistance and unrequited,
(03:54):
but he...
It was probably more theadmiration of his gentleness.
And coming across anotherboy that was not agro
and sort of part of the pack,
that was a nice thing.
And I never felt bad about being gay.
I knew that the world outthere didn't accept it,
that they saw something as wrong.
But just deep down,
(04:15):
I felt there was nothing wrong with me.
I just knew, I don't how I knew,
but I felt that there was nothing wrong
about the way I felt.
But there was the fear that was instilled
in anyone at that time if they were queer,
that this was a no-no.
and you had to be very careful.
And I think it made me developan empathy for outsiders
(04:38):
just in general,
which I think it does for a lot of people.
And one of the verysignificant things I remember:
We were living in the Gulf of Carpentaria
in a place called Burketown,
and we lived near an Aboriginal family.
And we got to know the kids.
And one day, I don't remember the context,
(04:58):
but one of the girls,
she would've been 10 to12 or something like that,
and I asked a question about something.
And in my naivety I said..
I think her mum had somesort of mental illness
or something,
and the girl found it very difficult,
the kids found it difficult.
And I said in my naivety,
"Why don't you go to the police?"
A stupid thing to...
I was 16.
(05:19):
Ad her reply, even when Ithink of it now I get upset.
And she said, "I'm ashamedbecause I'm Aboriginal."
And I thought, "She's 10,
10 or 12 at the most,
how could you possibly feel like that
and how can that self-worth be destroyed
in a child like that?
What sort of world does that to a child?"
And that impressed me immensely
(05:40):
that that moment stayed with me.
I hope that she wenton to have a good life,
that's all I can think.
So, yeah, there was that sort of...
The teenage years were a big awakening
and making me aware of lots of things.
And I think getting out of school
gave me that spacepsychologically to go with that.
We came back to Victoria when I was 19
(06:02):
and I got my first job.
We moved back to home.
We were living in Healesville then.
And I got my first job.
I think I was cleaningbottles in a lemonade factory.
But then I went on to probablythe nicest job I've ever had,
I worked as an animal keeper
at the Healesville Wildlife Sanctuary.
And that was really wonderful.
And I started to meetpeople that had, you know,
similar interests (06:23):
nature.
And there were some people there
that were really into native plants,
so hat gave me an interest inlooking into native plants.
But I left there.
I found a magazine,
a left-wing magazinecalled "The Nation Review."
And it was a revelationbecause there were ads in there
and articles about lotsof left-wing subjects
(06:44):
and interests in there.
And that was an amazing revelation.
So I started reading lotsof things about feminism
and gay liberation,
and I wanted to move toMelbourne really badly.
I realized that the country was...
As much as I loved the country,
I realized that was the only thing.
I had to do that orlife would not move on.
So I got a flat behind a Maltese family
(07:05):
in an inner=city suburb.
And I got a job on thebuses as a conductor,
training as a conductor.
And I think I did that...
I didn't do it for very long.
And loneliness once again got to me
and I felt very insecure.
As a country boy going to the city,
I felt intimidated quite a lot
and I just didn't know how to meet people.
I felt...
(07:26):
I was not a countrybumpkin, but I felt, yeah,
just a little bit like I didn't fit in.
So I moved back home again.
And then one day I got the courage
once again in "The Nation Review."
I'd seen an ad for the GayLiberation Center in Fitzroy
and I got the courage.
So I drove down toMelbourne one afternoon.
And I must have walkedaround the block six times
(07:47):
before I got the courageto walk up those stairs
into the building,
and I did.
And I met two guys thatwere in there, I don't know,
answering the phones or somethingor whatever on that night.
And they became friends.
They had a spare room at their place
in North Melbourne, I think.
And life just from then on,
that's when it all rolled on
and I started to meet people.
(08:08):
And, yeah, that's just how it happened.
So just that magazine or that paper, well,
it was a lifesaver in a way, really.
I don't remember how Icame across the paper.
I'd imagine I picked it up
on a trip to Melbourne somewhere.
And I started to feelsafe and comfortable.
And I also started to feel Ihad something to contribute
(08:33):
to other people's lives,
and that was a lovely thing.
And at the end of 1977,
I met my future partner, Colin.
And that's really whenlife took a wonderful turn
because with Colin I felt safe,
I didn't have to justify things.
(08:55):
And Colin sent me backto finish my schooling,
to get my HSC.
And we lived in a house in North Carlton
and I finished my HSC atPrincess Hill High School
as a mature-age student of 24.
So that was wonderful.
And he had an old camera that he lent me
and I developed an interest in photography
(09:17):
and eventually went to art school
and studied photography as a major.
And that was really wonderful, yeah.
Fortunately Colin was very positive
about being gay as well,
so that was a great boost.
And there was no issue with either of us
having to push the other one.
And I had very left politics,which I have retained,
(09:38):
and Colin slowly absorbedsome of my politics
and I suppose I absorbed some of his
and now we're one andthe same in that area.
After art school,
we both went into nursing.
And Colin went on to have acareer in nursing, I didn't.
I did it for a while,
but I found it's too much like the army,
how I imagined the army would be.
(10:00):
And I didn't like a lot of thehierarchy and the structure
and the way nurses wereactually belittled quite often,
the doctors and that.
So I returned to art school.
I almost became aperpetual student, really.
And this time I studieddrawing and painting
at the Phillip Institute,
and it was a wonderful time.
Betty Churcher was the head ofthe art school at that time,
(10:21):
and she was a very inspiring woman.
And I made wonderful friends.
And it instilled in me a a real love...
I'd always had a love of art,
but this made it apassion, I think, for me.
And which is...
I never went on and had acareer as a painter or anything,
but it stayed with me as a lifelong love.
(10:41):
(serene music)
So we moved away from innerMelbourne, not too far.
And then we became volunteers
with the Victorian AIDS Council
during the late '80s and early '90s.
And that was a very hardtime, but we made...
I think it was a time
(11:02):
to solidify lots of our political beliefs
around sexuality.
And we made a lot of friendswho felt the same about that,
very strong ideas about sexuality
and the need to force governments
to be aware of our rights,
the rights of all queer people.
(11:22):
And for the first time we metlots of lesbians and that.
So there was this diversityand it was wonderful.
And people, you felt a real solidarity.
And some of those people
have since moved to Castlemaine,
which is just amazing.
It's the strangest town in that way.
And eventually as the '90s went on,
(11:43):
Colin and I felt that we...
We loved the city,
but we just felt the needto move to the country.
There was something calling us.
We had bought some someland at Bendigo, 176 acres,
which was ridiculous but it was cheap.
And we held onto that for...
(12:03):
Oh, I don't know.
I think almost 20 years we had that.
And eventually we went looking.
And we were in Dallas one day
and a friend of Colin said,
"We've heard thatCastlemaine is a good place
for older gay men."
And so we went looking
and we we found the placethat we eventually bought.
(12:26):
And we haven't looked back.
It's been absolutely wonderful.
I just can't understand howCastlemaine is so unusual,
there's no other town in thecountry, it seems, like it,
and why we've all been drawn here.
I think it's location on practical levels,
it's on a train line,
(12:46):
it's close to a large regional city,
it's not that far from Melbourne.
It's attractive.
And it's got this lovely hilly quality.
It's old and it's historical.
So all of those things make it appealing.
But then when you take the fact
that all such a diversityof people, the types,
and there's artists andlots queer of people
(13:08):
and all of the youngfamilies that have moved in
that make it vibrant.
And it's very left wing, which I like.
And we've never had somany wonderful friends
and we've never had somany diverse friends.
It is really wonderful.
And we've never had amoment's regret moving here.
And I can't understand
(13:28):
why anyone would wanna move to Melbourne.
I love Melbourne, I always will,
but I don't want to live there anymore.
And I love falling asleep with the quiet
and waking up hearing the magpies singing.
There's nothing beats that.
And if I go back to that time
when I felt totally alone
and now to be surrounded by friends
(13:50):
and to be aware of so many different lives
and the stories thatso many people have got
that are different to what I went through
but similar in the way they'vehad to deal with things
in a way.
And I think back then, as I said earlier,
you did feel an alien.
You didn't feel accepted.
(14:10):
Now, finally you do feel that...
It's solidifying a lot more.
It's not totally there of course.
And things are cyclic, I realize,
you'd only have to see the rot
that's going on in America,
but I feel very positive about it.
And I feel positive for young people now.
And I think that's the way it should be.
(14:32):
Kids in school now should feel comfortable
being who they are
and not having to worry
about what the other kids think
or what will happen to them,
the consequences ofnegative thinking and that,
and feeling comfortable enoughto talk with their teachers
and that they can feel confident now
that they'll be guided ina way that they want to go.
(14:53):
And that's a lovely thing.
And some people my agemight feel envious of that,
that they missed that, but I don't.
I just think that's the way it should be.
And it's wonderful that'swhat it's like for kids now,
and it's only right.
I don't understand hatred
and I don't understand how people
can want to enforce their beliefs
(15:14):
and their notions of howother people should behave
and live their lives.
I's not their business.
We all have the right to live our life
the way we want to in a waythat doesn't hurt anyone
but can only benefitthem in a positive way
by following their path.
And that is a wonderful thing, it is, yes
(15:35):
(serene music)
When the marriage equality came about,
it was the federal government's...
I assume they had an agenda
that it would be demolished in the vote.
And so we were all nervous.
Colin and I went alongto the Theater Royal
for the announcement.
(15:57):
We all watched that big screen.
It was full of people.
And when they announcedthat it had passed,
it was just wonderful.
And there were total strangerscoming up and hugging you.
And Colin was a mess, he just...
But it was beautiful.
It really was lovely.
And, yeah, we got marriedthe next year, yeah.
(16:17):
After 42 years we got married.
And we had a simple ceremony
initially just to get the piece of paper
for the legalities of it.
But we had a few friends along.
And we got married at Bendigo Courthouse
And we were the firstsame-sex couple to be married
at the courthouse,
(16:37):
and that was wonderful.
And the next day we had a big party.
We hired the old tea roomsof the botanic gardens
and we had a party forall of the people we knew,
and that was really lovely.
And kind friends helpedset that up for us,
which was just absolutely lovely.
And, yeah, it was really wonderful,
it really was.
(17:00):
As a lot of people have said,
that moment of being allowed to marry,
you felt a sort of acceptance,to a certain extent,
by the general society.
And that was a very good thing
that I think we all needed that
because for so long wefelt like outsiders.
We didn't wanna be outsiders.
(17:20):
And to have that was a realhighlight in life, I think,
really was just wonderful.
Now that I've reached old age,
and if I reflect upon how I was as a child
compared to now,
I had no confidence as a child,
I had no self-esteem.
I don't think I felt worthless.
I knew that I had potential
(17:41):
and that life would get better.
And now I can sink back occasionally
into that sort of self-doubt
because I think when youget burnt as a child,
and a cruel thing and, you know,
that it makes me veryaware of how important
just the children are not prevented
from doing what's important in their life.
(18:03):
And the cruelty of thatjust upsets me immensely.
And now I think I've conquered
most of that self-esteem thing.
And I feel confident nowbecause of the people around me
because I think people around you,
the love you have from friends
does give you a great sense of belonging
(18:23):
and you know that you are worth something
because you're engaging with them
and you share so much together.
And that's a wonderfulconfidence building thing
that we all should have, I think.
I don't enjoy growing old,
but I feel that it's okay to grow old
because there's a safety in my life now
and a comfort and a companionship
(18:43):
firstly with my husband,Colin, who I love dearly.
And he's the reason thatmy life turned around
and he's the reason thatI have all the things
that give me joy.
And, yes, I can confidentlysay that I feel comfortable
and confident and my self-esteemhas never been better,
I'd say, yeah.
If I could go back and give advice,
(19:05):
talk to the the20-year-old-me, I would say,
"Don't worry.
It might feel awful now,but things do get better.
Life always has thepotential to get better.
And just hang onto that, Steven."
(gentle music)
(19:33):
- This project was made possible
with the financial assistance
of Victoria's PrideRegional Activation Program,
and Midsumma Festival,
and with the support of theMount Alexander Shire Council,
the Mount Alexander ShireLGBTIQA+ Steering Group,
and the "Queer and Now" radioprogram on Main FM 94.9.
This podcast has been produced
(19:55):
by the "Queer and Now" team,
Sherene Clone and AmaliO'Hara at Main FM 94.9.
Editing an original music by Amy Chapman.
A big thank you to all participants
for sharing their stories
with such a wonderfulgenerosity of spirit.
If anything within this episode
has been upsetting for you,
please reach out
and call the dedicatedLGBTQA+ helpline switchboard
(20:18):
on 1-800-184-527;
or Lifeline on 13 11 14;
or Kids Helpline;
1800-55-1800.
(serene music)
(21:00):
(serene music continues)
- Trigger warning:
This episode contains adult content
and may be distressing for some listeners.
"Pride Across the Ages"is a collaborative project
to amplify and celebratethe voices of LGBTIQA+
living in Central Victoria.
All episodes were recordedon Dja Dja Wurrung
and respectfully recognize
that First Nations'sovereignty was never ceded.
(00:23):
This always was and alwayswill be Aboriginal land.
(gentle music)
(00:45):
- My name's Steven.
I was born in a small townto the east of Melbourne
in the hills called Warburton in 1953,
so that makes me a baby boomer.
And I identify as a gay manand my pronouns are he/him.
Childhood:
I had a lonely childhood
is probably the best way to put it.
And it was up and down.
(01:06):
I felt very loved by my parents.
And I have two sisters and a brother
who are all still living.
And school was mostly unpleasant for me.
Like, I felt sort oflike an alien, I think,
at school, like a lot of queer people can,
and just being the time that it was
(01:27):
going to primary school in the late '50s.
And I don't have very fond memories
of primary school at all, or high school.
I never understood how horrible boys were
and how they could beso horrible in gangs,
so I never liked all that andI spent a lot of time hiding.
(01:47):
And I think that was probably the story
a lot of gay men of my era would say.
My family were very workingclass, country working class.
And Dad was a truck driverand Mum was a homemaker.
And we moved to Queenslandin about form five
(02:07):
which is the equivalent of, what, year 11?
And Dad got a job driving a truck
for a road gang in Queensland,
for a road constructioncompany, so we moved.
And that was a turning point in my life
because I escaped school.
And it was wonderful because we were out,
there were no fences,
we went to the outback,
and I could roam for miles by myself.
(02:28):
I developed a love early in life
for the natural world becauseit was a comfort to me,
it was a friend that Ihad during the loneliness.
I had great difficulty making friends
because I felt like an outsider
and I couldn't relate to the other boys.
And the majority of myfriends at school were girls,
I could relate to them much, much easier.
(02:48):
But, anyway, escapingto Queensland was good
because I had this freedomand my mind relaxed.
And I would just roam into the bush
and listen to music on my...
I had a little cassette player,
it would look really archaic now.
And so music and the natural world
were my companions together.
And even today when I'm painting,
(03:11):
I'll play music and I'mtransported into that sort of,
into that world again.
And I feel, now that I've got older,
close to 70, that there's...
You start to reflect on your childhood
and you can see the similarities,
they become clearer.
All of the excitement ofthe middle of your life
starts to become less important
and you become more reflective,
(03:32):
and that's how I think about it now.
I fell in love for thefirst time when I was 16.
The other boy didn't, was...
I don't whether he was aware of it.
He might have been.
He was a very kind and gentle boy.
And so I think
it was love from adistance and unrequited,
(03:54):
but he...
It was probably more theadmiration of his gentleness.
And coming across anotherboy that was not agro
and sort of part of the pack,
that was a nice thing.
And I never felt bad about being gay.
I knew that the world outthere didn't accept it,
that they saw something as wrong.
But just deep down,
(04:15):
I felt there was nothing wrong with me.
I just knew, I don't how I knew,
but I felt that there was nothing wrong
about the way I felt.
But there was the fear that was instilled
in anyone at that time if they were queer,
that this was a no-no.
and you had to be very careful.
And I think it made me developan empathy for outsiders
(04:38):
just in general,
which I think it does for a lot of people.
And one of the verysignificant things I remember:
We were living in the Gulf of Carpentaria
in a place called Burketown,
and we lived near an Aboriginal family.
And we got to know the kids.
And one day, I don't remember the context,
(04:58):
but one of the girls,
she would've been 10 to12 or something like that,
and I asked a question about something.
And in my naivety I said..
I think her mum had somesort of mental illness
or something,
and the girl found it very difficult,
the kids found it difficult.
And I said in my naivety,
"Why don't you go to the police?"
A stupid thing to...
I was 16.
(05:19):
Ad her reply, even when Ithink of it now I get upset.
And she said, "I'm ashamedbecause I'm Aboriginal."
And I thought, "She's 10,
10 or 12 at the most,
how could you possibly feel like that
and how can that self-worth be destroyed
in a child like that?
What sort of world does that to a child?"
And that impressed me immensely
(05:40):
that that moment stayed with me.
I hope that she wenton to have a good life,
that's all I can think.
So, yeah, there was that sort of...
The teenage years were a big awakening
and making me aware of lots of things.
And I think getting out of school
gave me that spacepsychologically to go with that.
We came back to Victoria when I was 19
(06:02):
and I got my first job.
We moved back to home.
We were living in Healesville then.
And I got my first job.
I think I was cleaningbottles in a lemonade factory.
But then I went on to probablythe nicest job I've ever had,
I worked as an animal keeper
at the Healesville Wildlife Sanctuary.
And that was really wonderful.
And I started to meetpeople that had, you know,
similar interests (06:23):
nature.
And there were some people there
that were really into native plants,
so hat gave me an interest inlooking into native plants.
But I left there.
I found a magazine,
a left-wing magazinecalled "The Nation Review."
And it was a revelationbecause there were ads in there
and articles about lotsof left-wing subjects
(06:44):
and interests in there.
And that was an amazing revelation.
So I started reading lotsof things about feminism
and gay liberation,
and I wanted to move toMelbourne really badly.
I realized that the country was...
As much as I loved the country,
I realized that was the only thing.
I had to do that orlife would not move on.
So I got a flat behind a Maltese family
(07:05):
in an inner=city suburb.
And I got a job on thebuses as a conductor,
training as a conductor.
And I think I did that...
I didn't do it for very long.
And loneliness once again got to me
and I felt very insecure.
As a country boy going to the city,
I felt intimidated quite a lot
and I just didn't know how to meet people.
I felt...
(07:26):
I was not a countrybumpkin, but I felt, yeah,
just a little bit like I didn't fit in.
So I moved back home again.
And then one day I got the courage
once again in "The Nation Review."
I'd seen an ad for the GayLiberation Center in Fitzroy
and I got the courage.
So I drove down toMelbourne one afternoon.
And I must have walkedaround the block six times
(07:47):
before I got the courageto walk up those stairs
into the building,
and I did.
And I met two guys thatwere in there, I don't know,
answering the phones or somethingor whatever on that night.
And they became friends.
They had a spare room at their place
in North Melbourne, I think.
And life just from then on,
that's when it all rolled on
and I started to meet people.
(08:08):
And, yeah, that's just how it happened.
So just that magazine or that paper, well,
it was a lifesaver in a way, really.
I don't remember how Icame across the paper.
I'd imagine I picked it up
on a trip to Melbourne somewhere.
And I started to feelsafe and comfortable.
And I also started to feel Ihad something to contribute
(08:33):
to other people's lives,
and that was a lovely thing.
And at the end of 1977,
I met my future partner, Colin.
And that's really whenlife took a wonderful turn
because with Colin I felt safe,
I didn't have to justify things.
(08:55):
And Colin sent me backto finish my schooling,
to get my HSC.
And we lived in a house in North Carlton
and I finished my HSC atPrincess Hill High School
as a mature-age student of 24.
So that was wonderful.
And he had an old camera that he lent me
and I developed an interest in photography
(09:17):
and eventually went to art school
and studied photography as a major.
And that was really wonderful, yeah.
Fortunately Colin was very positive
about being gay as well,
so that was a great boost.
And there was no issue with either of us
having to push the other one.
And I had very left politics,which I have retained,
(09:38):
and Colin slowly absorbedsome of my politics
and I suppose I absorbed some of his
and now we're one andthe same in that area.
After art school,
we both went into nursing.
And Colin went on to have acareer in nursing, I didn't.
I did it for a while,
but I found it's too much like the army,
how I imagined the army would be.
(10:00):
And I didn't like a lot of thehierarchy and the structure
and the way nurses wereactually belittled quite often,
the doctors and that.
So I returned to art school.
I almost became aperpetual student, really.
And this time I studieddrawing and painting
at the Phillip Institute,
and it was a wonderful time.
Betty Churcher was the head ofthe art school at that time,
(10:21):
and she was a very inspiring woman.
And I made wonderful friends.
And it instilled in me a a real love...
I'd always had a love of art,
but this made it apassion, I think, for me.
And which is...
I never went on and had acareer as a painter or anything,
but it stayed with me as a lifelong love.
(10:41):
(serene music)
So we moved away from innerMelbourne, not too far.
And then we became volunteers
with the Victorian AIDS Council
during the late '80s and early '90s.
And that was a very hardtime, but we made...
I think it was a time
(11:02):
to solidify lots of our political beliefs
around sexuality.
And we made a lot of friendswho felt the same about that,
very strong ideas about sexuality
and the need to force governments
to be aware of our rights,
the rights of all queer people.
(11:22):
And for the first time we metlots of lesbians and that.
So there was this diversityand it was wonderful.
And people, you felt a real solidarity.
And some of those people
have since moved to Castlemaine,
which is just amazing.
It's the strangest town in that way.
And eventually as the '90s went on,
(11:43):
Colin and I felt that we...
We loved the city,
but we just felt the needto move to the country.
There was something calling us.
We had bought some someland at Bendigo, 176 acres,
which was ridiculous but it was cheap.
And we held onto that for...
(12:03):
Oh, I don't know.
I think almost 20 years we had that.
And eventually we went looking.
And we were in Dallas one day
and a friend of Colin said,
"We've heard thatCastlemaine is a good place
for older gay men."
And so we went looking
and we we found the placethat we eventually bought.
(12:26):
And we haven't looked back.
It's been absolutely wonderful.
I just can't understand howCastlemaine is so unusual,
there's no other town in thecountry, it seems, like it,
and why we've all been drawn here.
I think it's location on practical levels,
it's on a train line,
(12:46):
it's close to a large regional city,
it's not that far from Melbourne.
It's attractive.
And it's got this lovely hilly quality.
It's old and it's historical.
So all of those things make it appealing.
But then when you take the fact
that all such a diversityof people, the types,
and there's artists andlots queer of people
(13:08):
and all of the youngfamilies that have moved in
that make it vibrant.
And it's very left wing, which I like.
And we've never had somany wonderful friends
and we've never had somany diverse friends.
It is really wonderful.
And we've never had amoment's regret moving here.
And I can't understand
(13:28):
why anyone would wanna move to Melbourne.
I love Melbourne, I always will,
but I don't want to live there anymore.
And I love falling asleep with the quiet
and waking up hearing the magpies singing.
There's nothing beats that.
And if I go back to that time
when I felt totally alone
and now to be surrounded by friends
(13:50):
and to be aware of so many different lives
and the stories thatso many people have got
that are different to what I went through
but similar in the way they'vehad to deal with things
in a way.
And I think back then, as I said earlier,
you did feel an alien.
You didn't feel accepted.
(14:10):
Now, finally you do feel that...
It's solidifying a lot more.
It's not totally there of course.
And things are cyclic, I realize,
you'd only have to see the rot
that's going on in America,
but I feel very positive about it.
And I feel positive for young people now.
And I think that's the way it should be.
(14:32):
Kids in school now should feel comfortable
being who they are
and not having to worry
about what the other kids think
or what will happen to them,
the consequences ofnegative thinking and that,
and feeling comfortable enoughto talk with their teachers
and that they can feel confident now
that they'll be guided ina way that they want to go.
(14:53):
And that's a lovely thing.
And some people my agemight feel envious of that,
that they missed that, but I don't.
I just think that's the way it should be.
And it's wonderful that'swhat it's like for kids now,
and it's only right.
I don't understand hatred
and I don't understand how people
can want to enforce their beliefs
(15:14):
and their notions of howother people should behave
and live their lives.
I's not their business.
We all have the right to live our life
the way we want to in a waythat doesn't hurt anyone
but can only benefitthem in a positive way
by following their path.
And that is a wonderful thing, it is, yes
(15:35):
(serene music)
When the marriage equality came about,
it was the federal government's...
I assume they had an agenda
that it would be demolished in the vote.
And so we were all nervous.
Colin and I went alongto the Theater Royal
for the announcement.
(15:57):
We all watched that big screen.
It was full of people.
And when they announcedthat it had passed,
it was just wonderful.
And there were total strangerscoming up and hugging you.
And Colin was a mess, he just...
But it was beautiful.
It really was lovely.
And, yeah, we got marriedthe next year, yeah.
(16:17):
After 42 years we got married.
And we had a simple ceremony
initially just to get the piece of paper
for the legalities of it.
But we had a few friends along.
And we got married at Bendigo Courthouse
And we were the firstsame-sex couple to be married
at the courthouse,
(16:37):
and that was wonderful.
And the next day we had a big party.
We hired the old tea roomsof the botanic gardens
and we had a party forall of the people we knew,
and that was really lovely.
And kind friends helpedset that up for us,
which was just absolutely lovely.
And, yeah, it was really wonderful,
it really was.
(17:00):
As a lot of people have said,
that moment of being allowed to marry,
you felt a sort of acceptance,to a certain extent,
by the general society.
And that was a very good thing
that I think we all needed that
because for so long wefelt like outsiders.
We didn't wanna be outsiders.
(17:20):
And to have that was a realhighlight in life, I think,
really was just wonderful.
Now that I've reached old age,
and if I reflect upon how I was as a child
compared to now,
I had no confidence as a child,
I had no self-esteem.
I don't think I felt worthless.
I knew that I had potential
(17:41):
and that life would get better.
And now I can sink back occasionally
into that sort of self-doubt
because I think when youget burnt as a child,
and a cruel thing and, you know,
that it makes me veryaware of how important
just the children are not prevented
from doing what's important in their life.
(18:03):
And the cruelty of thatjust upsets me immensely.
And now I think I've conquered
most of that self-esteem thing.
And I feel confident nowbecause of the people around me
because I think people around you,
the love you have from friends
does give you a great sense of belonging
(18:23):
and you know that you are worth something
because you're engaging with them
and you share so much together.
And that's a wonderfulconfidence building thing
that we all should have, I think.
I don't enjoy growing old,
but I feel that it's okay to grow old
because there's a safety in my life now
and a comfort and a companionship
(18:43):
firstly with my husband,Colin, who I love dearly.
And he's the reason thatmy life turned around
and he's the reason thatI have all the things
that give me joy.
And, yes, I can confidentlysay that I feel comfortable
and confident and my self-esteemhas never been better,
I'd say, yeah.
If I could go back and give advice,
(19:05):
talk to the the20-year-old-me, I would say,
"Don't worry.
It might feel awful now,but things do get better.
Life always has thepotential to get better.
And just hang onto that, Steven."
(gentle music)
(19:33):
- This project was made possible
with the financial assistance
of Victoria's PrideRegional Activation Program,
and Midsumma Festival,
and with the support of theMount Alexander Shire Council,
the Mount Alexander ShireLGBTIQA+ Steering Group,
and the "Queer and Now" radioprogram on Main FM 94.9.
This podcast has been produced
(19:55):
by the "Queer and Now" team,
Sherene Clone and AmaliO'Hara at Main FM 94.9.
Editing an original music by Amy Chapman.
A big thank you to all participants
for sharing their stories
with such a wonderfulgenerosity of spirit.
If anything within this episode
has been upsetting for you,
please reach out
and call the dedicatedLGBTQA+ helpline switchboard
(20:18):
on 1-800-184-527;
or Lifeline on 13 11 14;
or Kids Helpline;
1800-55-1800.
(serene music)
(21:00):
(serene music continues)
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