122: Nick Pineault - EMFs & Your Health: What the Science is Really Saying

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"The reality is that your body will accommodate for these exposures and try to find what is the best sleep I can get given these exposures. If you remove the exposures, it might find a new situation that is even more advantageous for your biology," says Nick Pineault, who joins the Quantum Biology Collective podcast to shed light on the hidden dangers of electromagnetic fields (EMFs) and their impact on our health. As an expert copywriter and research analyst, Nick exposes the shocking truth about the wireless industry's denial of EMF effects and the urgent need for change in our increasingly connected world.

In this eye-opening episode, Nick reveals how the telecom industry has systematically quashed efforts to study cell phone safety, adopting a strategy of complete denial reminiscent of tobacco executives claiming nicotine isn't addictive. He discusses the monumental appointment of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as Secretary of Health and Human Services and the potential for real change in EMF regulation. Nick also delves into the alarming connection between EMF exposure and the anxiety epidemic among teenagers, sharing startling statistics that link higher EMF exposure to cognitive decline and behavioral issues.

Tune in to today's discussion to learn practical steps for reducing your EMF exposure, why AirPods pose a significant risk to brain health, and how grassroots awareness can drive the paradigm shift needed to create safer technology for future generations.

5 Key Takeaways

1. Turn off Wi-Fi and phones at night to improve sleep quality. Even small changes like this can make a noticeable difference in how you feel.

2. Use wired headphones instead of wireless earbuds when possible, especially for extended listening periods. This reduces EMF exposure close to your brain.

3. Download content to devices in advance rather than streaming, particularly for long trips. This allows you to use devices in airplane mode, minimizing radiation exposure.

4. Focus on reducing EMF exposure from sources closest to your body and that you use for long periods, like phones and laptops. Distance is key - even small increases in distance can significantly reduce exposure.

5. Have open conversations with family members, especially teens, about EMF risks. Consider doing a trial period of reduced exposure to see if anyone notices improvements in sleep, headaches, or other symptoms.

Memorable Quotes

"We have levels right now of exposure that is a quintillion times the ancestral background levels. So that's 10 to the 18th or a billion times a billion. That's the increase of radio frequency radiation in the last hundred years."

"The reality is that your body will accommodate for these exposures and try to find what is the best sleep I can get given these exposures. If you remove the exposures, it might find a new situation that is even more advantageous for your biology."

"Let's not wait on one savior to fix the entire thing. We need to continue the conversation and double down on how motivated we feel to raise awareness, to protect ourselves and then to talk about it."

Resources Mentioned

EMF Hazard Summit 2025 - https://emfhazardsummit.com/

Dark Horse podcast by Brett Weinstein - YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DarkHorsePod Apple Podcasts -

Episode Transcript

Meredith Oke (05:00):
All right, Nick Pineault, welcome back to the QVC
podcast.

Nick Pineault (05:04):
Thanks for having me.

Meredith Oke (05:05):
It's my pleasure. And I'm really excited to talk
to you because I've really been wanting to talk
to someone about what's going on in the United
States in terms of the Health and Human Services
situation. I know that you have interviewed
Robert F. Kennedy and are following that very
closely. So I'm like, perfect. I can talk to Nick

(05:27):
about it. I think we're good people to talk about
this because we're both Canadian, so we didn't
vote no.

Nick Pineault (05:38):
Exactly.

Meredith Oke (05:39):
We are just here to talk about what the current
situation is. So how. How that happened and what
your politics are, I think are sort of beside the
point. If you know our audience, really, their
fundamental priority is, is health and wellness
and taking care of the human energy system in all

(05:59):
the ways that matter. And I think Robert F.
Kennedy being confirmed, like, I have a hard time
even saying it because it seemed so impossible
even just six months ago, being confirmed as the
Director of Secretary of Health and Human
Services for the federal government in the United

(06:22):
States. Could you just speak to the monumental
moment that this represents and also what you
think could be possible with someone like rfk, or
not even someone like rfk, because there's no one
else like him. Like, there's really no one else
in the world with that level of understanding and
experience. So I'd love your thoughts.

Nick Pineault (06:44):
Well, that's, in fact, one of the most exciting
questions I've received in the last. In the last
years in interviews, because things are very
exciting. So there's a lot of possibility there.
Of course, RFK Jr. First is an environmental
attorney who fought and won against many

(07:05):
industries that have been found to poison people
or to hide the fact that they were poisoning
people. So industries that really kind of engage
in this sort of savage or dangerous form of
capitalism where, okay, we're here to make money

(07:25):
and, oh, if we get caught, we're going to pay a
little bit, a few millions in compensation, but
it's still worth it, right? So we have dupont, we
have Monsanto, and pretty much the most evil
companies. And that's not, you know, something
religious. It's more. It's even something that
in. In science magazines has been like, they had

(07:46):
a chart of the most evil companies in the world,
and Monsanto was up there because they deny.
They. They use all this, the tactics to try to
change scientific opinions and try to minimize
the problem. And yet we know what they're doing.
And then, of course, it take decades before we
can finally see justice. The same is happening

(08:08):
with telecoms to some extent because of the
denial that's been installed in the industry
since the 1990s, when the first controversies
around cell phones and potential brain tumors
were seen, especially that one Larry King
interview. I cannot recall the year, but it was.
It was a big moment in mainstream media in the

(08:30):
U.S. and after that, the industry really decided
to systematically quit. All the era. The efforts
that had been put to try to work with scientists
and with government to try to make sense of cell
phone safety and how to put, you know, safety
guardrails. They abandoned all that and they
decided to say no instead. What we're going to

(08:52):
say is, there's no effect whatsoever. Everything
is safe. So they decided on a message that is
essentially like, you know, those tobacco
executives that have a hand on the Bible and that
say, oh, no, you know, there's no damage from
smoking, there's nothing there. And nicotine, by
the way, is not addictive. So is the equivalent.
They decided on a PR message that is, of course,

(09:16):
completely fabric. Complete fabrication, a
complete lie. And that's. We're still going
through the consequences of that. When we have an
attorney like RFK Jr that has fought and won
against other corporate giants, and he has also
fought and won against the fcc, the Federal
Communication Commission in the US that's

(09:37):
supposed to regulate the industry of wireless and
wireless safety. But what they're really doing is
they're so completely captured by these interests
that all they're doing is helping telecoms buy
spectrum, which is, you know, you're buying the
right to emit at a certain frequency with your
towers and with your wireless infrastructure. So

(10:00):
they're really more like helping industry roll
out new technologies. So how can they both be
supposed to stop the industry from rolling out
5G, for example, the fifth generation of cell
towers, and also enable 5G. So it's kind of the
wrong organization at this point to determine

(10:20):
health, and we're in a very, very bad spot. But
the reality is that there's lawsuits against the
industry at many levels. RFK Jr. Was representing
many of these lawsuits. In fact, he told me many
dozens of lawsuits that we don't hear about
because they're not publicized. All right?
There's no media attention around them, around

(10:42):
people who claim they've had all sorts of
different tumors because of their phone. And this
is not an isolated incident. You have other
countries where there has been decisions in favor
of cell phone users that have had massive
compensation. In Italy, there are a few cases,

(11:02):
for example, but it's tough because even judges,
I think, and most people representing the law are
in this belief that this could be true. So
there's, you know, on a societal level, if
everyone thinks this is crazy talk and there's no
effect, it will convince the entire like all
levels of government and policymakers and even

(11:24):
lawmakers that there's no issue. So how can
someone claim that their cell phone caused a
tumor for example? Right. So the moment is huge
because now you have RFK Jr. Head of HHS in the
United States. HHS Health and Human Services is
at the top of overlooking the fda. The FDA is
consumer products. Cell phones fell under

(11:46):
consumer products for a while and then they
didn't know what to do about it. So they send
that to ntp. NTP is also part of, you know, under
hhs. NTP is the National Toxicology Program. And
they did cell phone studies, they did find
effects. It was published in 2018. And then all
of a sudden all the follow up studies to these

(12:07):
rat studies that showed that cell phone radiation
can be a carcinogen were abandoned quietly. We
don't know why to this day. But they think it's a
lot of industry pressure and systematic kind of,
you know, the industry trying to do all sorts of
shenanigans to prevent the real independent
scientists that have citizens health in mind to

(12:29):
do their job. And then there's also the FCC that
is under hhs. So now will we see a change in who
is chosen at the FCC as the head of fcc? That
would be a nice first step and something that RFK
Jr told me in the, in, in the interview that's
going to be part of the bonuses for the 2025 EMF

(12:49):
Hazard Summit is that he would literally look at
the top half of all FCC employee and let them go.
So there's a bit cleanup that needs to happen
because in his mind if the FCC in the end we
decide, okay, let's, let's make sure the FCC does
its job when it comes to health. We have to let

(13:10):
go of a culture of no effect. And a culture of
this is, you know, tinfoil hatter stuff. This is
not serious and we don't want to study it and
it's not our job. And we, it's perfectly fine to
have the heads of the FCC always be ex telecom
executives or ex CTIA executive, which is the

(13:33):
lobbying group for the telecom industry. So I
would say for the first time we have a politician
that in his first day at HHS said we're going to
study the impact of certain Childhood injections,
I'll say it that way. So there's that, that
controversy over that. There's a controversy over

(13:53):
pesticides, there's a controversy over fluoride
and water and all sorts of things that could be
behind the chronic disease epidemic. But he also
mentioned, the second item he mentioned is
electromagnetic radiation. So on a public
awareness standpoint, it could be massive. And I
was talking with someone else, another interview
I did right before this recording, and you know,

(14:17):
the person said, I, I don't know if RFK Jr. Is
going to change everything. And the reality is
maybe it won't, but the possibility is there. It
doesn't mean we should change course, stop
spreading awareness. Maybe the change is going to
not come in four years. Maybe it's going to take
still 24 years. I have no idea, to tell you the

(14:41):
truth. But the possibility is there. And at least
we have a politician for the first time that has
litigated for EMFs, knows that it's unsafe and
knows that the safety limits need to change. Will
it change? We'll see. But in the meantime, you
know, I'm just still waking up every day. I'm
doing my work for the moment. You know, I cannot
retire.

Meredith Oke (15:03):
Absolutely. And I would argue that this is the
moment to double down. This is the moment for us
all to, to spread the message more clearly and
louder because we have this opening and who
knows, perhaps the embedded nature of all of

(15:24):
these different organizations that make decisions
that end up affecting our lives, like the
companies are, the agencies are captured by the
companies and the, the people are going back and
forth from company to government and back again.
And so nobody has any accountability and nobody
has any liability. So, yes, he has. It's

(15:48):
definitely a, you know, a big mess to untangle,
but the fact that the will is there and that it's
being acknowledged, because to your point, their
strategy so far has to been to just completely
deny there's even a problem. Yes.

Nick Pineault (16:04):
Yeah.

Meredith Oke (16:05):
And. And I think that's why some people, you
know, feel so strongly that RFK is crazy. Right.
And I watched the commentary on him very closely
during the confirmation hearing, and I could not
find one person who hated him, who had any

(16:25):
understanding of the issues that he represented.
Like, and so it's like he's so far down the
rabbit hole, as you were saying, he sees all of
these cases, so he sees all of the evidence, and
he's, he lives and breathes that every day and
comes to conclusions and then says those
conclusions to a public that's been told that

(16:48):
there's no problem. So, of course he sounds
crazy, but it's because he has all the context
and the public has none.

Nick Pineault (16:56):
I agree with you. And someone who put it in the
best way possible, I have to give him credit, is
Brett Weinstein from the Dark Horse podcast. I. I
love that podcast. He's a deep thinker, but it's
also ironic. I'll tell you why in a second. But I
think he said that you have early. You have

(17:16):
people that are sort of alarm sounders, that are
kind of 30 years before their time, and they.
They have a position that is informed, that is
not just, you know, their gut feeling or
anything. I'm included in that. But of course,
before me, there were people in the 1980s that I
know that were already saying, you know, power

(17:37):
lines that we install that are these huge lines
of electricity. We have to be careful because if
we live too close to them, we're going to have
massive problems based on what we understand of
biology. Everyone was kind of scoffing at that.
What are you talking about? Electricity. I mean,
electricity is safe as long as you don't, you
know, shock yourself to death. And now we're

(18:00):
starting to see, yes, it was a problem, but it
was a small problem compared to all the other
problems we're creating with modern tech so close
to our body, cell towers, et cetera. And these
early adopters have a position that sounds so
crazy because it is so far from what the average

(18:20):
layperson knows and even the average, you know,
intellectual or academic thinks or knows for
sure. But yet that's. That's kind of their gut
feeling and uninformed position. For example, you
would have. The academic. Most people would think
that cell phones are completely safe. They. They

(18:42):
think, well, it's been studied. There's no
effect. And they read the cancer society website.
It says the same thing. Okay. It confirms my
understanding. And then I read who. Oh, there's
no effect. Cool. Thank God there's no effect. I
read the fcc. Thank God, there's no effect. So
they've been convinced their entire life that

(19:02):
there's no effect. So when they're presented with
evidence, it sounds so big, it sounds so shocking
that it couldn't possibly be true. And that's
what the point of Bret Weinstein was when he gets
into new topics, like something that he learned
about in the last several years was the impact of

(19:25):
blue light. It couldn't be that we rolled out all
these screens and yet were destroying the health
of the population to some degree at least, or to
some would say a Large degree, at least in a
quantum biology field, because the screens emit
all the wrong frequencies. And no one took care

(19:47):
of making sure that at least the spectrum is
balanced, that we try to minimize these risks.
And essentially this is a big experiment. And he
was shocked when he realized, my God, yes, blue
light is a big problem. Because he talks about
hypernovelty. He's a evolutionary biologist, so
he says, well, this is new. Our mitochondria are

(20:09):
not used to this artificial light. Our cells is
not used to this artificial light. But the thing
is where Brett Weinstein falls short and I think,
I apologize to Brett if he knows, but I don't
think he's aware, that invisible light, right,
this part of the EMF spectrum that communicates

(20:30):
with each other, the cell towers and your phone
and wi Fi and Bluetooth. This radio frequency
radiation also has the same characteristics. It's
hypernovel. We have levels right now of exposure
that is a quintillion times the ancestral
background levels. So that's 10 to the 18th or a

(20:50):
billion times a billion. That's the increase of
radio frequency radiation in the last hundred
years. So the average. And that's not a peak
exposure level from your phone, that's background
level in a city around 0.2 volts per meter. So

(21:11):
the reality is that we have a new agent. It's
tremendously higher, so, so much higher than back
in three, four generations ago that we cannot
even understand the number. There's too many
zeros. So there's that. And then we have the
position in society. Everyone keeps repeating,
everything is safe. And yet when you look into

(21:32):
it, if, if Brett Weinstein looked into it, he
would say, my God, the safety studies are shoddy.
This is very bad science from the get go. The
standards are based on adults, short term
exposure. So where are the standards for kids?
Like if we have kids that use the technology?
Makes no sense. So it makes so little sense when

(21:56):
you start looking into it that just like me, just
like I did in 2016 when I dove into it, it makes
no sense. It's almost impossible to fathom that
it could be that bad. And yet it is.

Meredith Oke (22:12):
Yeah, and it is. And it's also, as you were
talking about the, the exposure times
quintillion, you know, I was thinking how
resilient the human body is that you know, our
biology, the fact that we're not even sicker than
we are is amazing considering what we've. We're
asking our biology to deal with on a day to day

(22:34):
basis. And you're talking about the safety
studies. So it's looking at adults, short term
exposure and in reality we have children,
including in some cases infants with long term
exposure. I mean my children go to public school,

(22:55):
they are in a WI fi environment all day long. And
so we have it turned off in our house on a timer
and we have no WI fi in our house when they're
sleeping. But that's not short term exposure. And
are they even looking at WI fi or are they just
looking at cell phones? Because then you know,
you're in a classroom and well, depending what

(23:17):
grade you're in. But for sure in middle and high
school every child in that room has a phone
turned on, probably Bluetooth and WI fi and data
like that is, that is not short term exposure,
that is prolonged daily exposure to, to
developing bodies and minds.

Nick Pineault (23:38):
Exactly. And we have. So basically the very
foundation of EMF wireless safety relies on short
term experiments. 40 to 60 minute of exposures,
if I recall correctly, to five monkeys and eight
rats. That's in a paper published in, by a group
called ICB, EMF. And Dr. Paul Hirou, who's in a,

(24:01):
in the Summit, he's from McGill University, he's
a professor of, he has a background in biology
and electrical engineering. So that's why he got
it, that's why he understood that when he was
mandated by Hydro Quebec, a utility company for
electricity that is owned by the state here in
Quebec in Canada, when he was asked to look at

(24:23):
the potential health impacts of power lines on
citizens and whether they should build these
power lines close to people's home or in even in
certain cases they wanted to have the power lines
over people's homes. So you're right underneath
and you're exposed to massive levels of
electricity in the form of a magnetic field that

(24:44):
is always present. So you're living in this,
let's say electricity bubble. And he found health
impacts. That's why he eventually lost his job.
Of course that's kind of what happens to honest
scientists these days in many industries or when
your finding goes against industry. But basically
what he said is that look, these are fantasies or

(25:05):
he called them fairy tales that the industry is
saying about safety. The initial studies were bad
enough that it should have never been rolled out.
This technology or at least the pre market
studying should have taken 10 years. But how can
you stop this technological boom? It was part of

(25:25):
the, the dot com Internet boom. And then towards
the 90s and the early 2000s it was like it was
almost a sort of unstoppable force. So who Are
you to stop this? Great technological advances
and things went very, very fast. And of course in
the midst of all this we still rely on safety

(25:48):
standards that are not even appropriate for
adults. But based on, on a mannequin head that is
the equivalent of a six foot two men, 220 pounds.
So maybe it's hard to tell, but I'm not six foot,
I'm five, four. I'm a small guy, you know, I'm
like the smaller population. So even those
standards are not even appropriate for my brain.

(26:10):
So if I use a phone to my head, I'm even going
over the limit that has been determined in safety
testing. So it makes so little sense on so many
level that it's hard to fathom. But then of
course you have certain engineers that said,
well, what happens if you have a 10 year old?
Well, the 10 year old has a different type of

(26:31):
head, it's smaller than mine, I can tell you
that. And then not only that, but the smaller
children are, the more water content they have in
their body, so they absorb more of this
radiation. So in fact in some studies they, their
spinal Cord will absorb 10 times more radiation
than adults just because of the morphology. And

(26:54):
then their brain will absorb 150 to 200% so
almost twice as much compared to adults. So none
of the safety standards take that into account.
But that's just for phones, right? We have no
safety standards that look at cumulative
exposures from all the sources you mentioned wi
fi in school and then another device that's maybe

(27:17):
in a pocket and maybe I have a Apple watch or
other wireless thing here and I have AirPods on
every day and then I go back home and the phone
is on under my pillow and all this cumulative
exposure, there's big radio silence on it because
again, everything that's being repeated is,
everything is safe. Everything is safe. Not, not

(27:39):
of this matter. Like we don't need the studies
about cumulative exposure because a cumulative
exposure to something that is harmless doesn't
need to be measured. Right? That's right. That's
the.

Meredith Oke (27:50):
Why would we study cumulative exposure when the,
when it's completely harmless? It's like how many
breaths did you take today? Exactly. Breathing's
harmless.

Nick Pineault (28:00):
Exactly, exactly.

Meredith Oke (28:04):
Because it's the other piece that is so tricky
about the non native EMF situation is that, you
know, if I want my family to eat a certain type
of food that's within my control, you know, if I
want to say no to certain big pharma products and

(28:25):
make, you know, have informed consent on all the
you know, when I have to make a medical decision,
especially involving taking drugs or injections,
like that's still relatively within my control.
But as we've been talking about the non native
EMFs, that is like a society level problem. And

(28:46):
aside from having what happens inside my own
home, it just, and this is, it just is so, it's
so daunting, right, to acknowledge the level of
harm that is happening. But at the same time it
is something that we literally can't do anything
about outside of our homes. And even then we're

(29:09):
still depending where our house is located, we
might still be picking up other stuff. And so
that's why I wanted to come back to RFK for a
minute. You know, like I'm just a big proponent
of light, of build the life you want to live,
create the future you want to live in, surround
yourself with people on the same page and like,
who cares what everyone else is doing? But this

(29:30):
has, you know, on a spiritual level, challenging
that approach because we cannot change this
without acknowledging the larger society system
that we live in. And so I just to have someone in
charge who sees that I hope is going to be able

(29:54):
to have a cascading effect on some of this
because it seems to me that as long as the people
in charge have a vested interest in lying to us
about the effects of technology on our bodies,
we're kind of screwed.

Nick Pineault (30:11):
Yeah, we are, we are in a sense. So let's think
about this thing, this entire problem in two
different categories. One of them, and let's use
the example of massive use of pesticides, there's
a worldwide problem with pesticide use. We are
destroying species, ecosystems, plants, humans,

(30:36):
everything. We're, you know, dumping I don't know
how many billions of tons of pesticides
everywhere every year. So there's a global
problem we need to think about. And even if you
decide to read Consumer Reports or whatever blog
and you discover, oh my God, there's a ton of

(30:56):
pesticides in my Cheerios glyphosate, so
therefore I will stop eating Cheerios. You're
doing great. You're doing great for consumer
awareness in a sense that if Cheerios loses
market shares, maybe they're going to clean their
act and make sure that throughout their supply
chain everything will be pesticide free. Or
maybe, you know, rely on other sources for their

(31:19):
oats and wheat and whatever ingredients they have
on there. And then of course you're going to have
fewer pesticides in your body. So that's good.
But there's a global problem of pesticides and
there's individual problem of pesticides. The
individual problem of pesticides is okay. What do
I feed my family? What do I feed myself with?
Emfs is the same. You have the global problem you

(31:40):
have there. I mean, it's daunting on me. The
moment I wake up, I have to. I kind of, I think
I'm able to survive in this space because I'm an
eternal optimist. I think things like, I kind of
still believe in fairy tales and I wake up in the
morning and oh, I feel like, you know, EMF
awareness is gonna explode. And it's so nice in
reality, we're really moving in the wrong

(32:03):
direction and we're installing all, all sorts of
satellites around the earth. And now there's
massive problems. The satellites are beaming down
on us. What is it doing, Nick? I get emails,
people very concerned. Should I go outside? Even
someone told me, well, you know, there's
widespread pollution of the air. There's the

(32:24):
satellites now that are blasting me, and there's
this little park in my city. Should I go outside
or stay inside? And I'm like, oh my God. I mean,
this is first. We don't know. But we cannot stop
going outside. That's, that's the crazy part of
it, right? We cannot stop having sunshine and
earthing and, you know, all these things that on

(32:47):
a quantum health level are kind of the
foundations. You still need to get outside and
get natural frequencies. And the irony is, I
think that the more natural frequencies you have
and your body reads this information is going to
help you cope with the chaos out there. That is
the bad information in the environment. So I

(33:10):
would say continue, by all means, continue. Go
outside and go by how you feel. Do you feel
better outside? I do. I still do. Even in
Montreal, even in a city. And I know if I go to a
park, even if that park has been sprayed with
pesticides, turns out I feel even better than in
my home. So somehow, you know, there's good
things that are coming out of it. So global

(33:31):
problem of emf, daunting. We can talk about it in
a political level, policy level, where to place
the towers. We should know. We should roll out
5G. We shouldn't roll out 5G. What to do about
your neighbors and how to change all of society.
But if I tell a parent, that's how, that's what
you have to think about tonight at 7pm after a

(33:54):
kids go to bed, they're going to freak out.
They're going to say, well, my God, I cannot
think about that. Like how Things are going to
change, but it's going to take a lot of time.
Then you have your individual EMF exposure that
you do have, I'd say a decent amount of control
over. Right, because you decide like you as an
adult, not your kids, that's another part of the

(34:14):
discussion. But you as an adult, you can control
what you expose yourself to. If you want to use
technology, there are safer ways to use it. You
can use wires instead of wireless. You can create
distance between the devices and your body. You
can minimize your time of use. And then if you
have control over your kids exposures because

(34:34):
they're younger, then of course you should do it.
And you should try to learn more tips that we
share in the summit, for example, or you know,
just trying to use more ethernet cables. Try to
minimize the time of exposure. Like you said,
turning off the WI fi at night is a great step
because it doesn't interfere with anyone's
business. And yet you are cutting down exposure

(34:56):
for a good seven to eight hours. So right there
you are cutting down how much of this stress
you're getting. Just like if you are cleaning up
your diet. And you know these Cheerios have
pesticides because I read Consumer Reports, I
know better. So now we've switched to an organic
brand and that's a pesticide free brand. But then

(35:17):
you come across an apple that your husband
purchased at the grocery store. Oh no, it's not
organic. There's 50 types of pesticide residue on
there. What do I do? I'm hungry. Well, maybe you
eat apple, right, but so you are still exposed to
some stuff. But maybe then you tell your husband,
okay, well you know what, apples should be
purchased organic from now on and we'll see if

(35:40):
our budget allows it. So all this negotiation
needs to happen with EMFs. It's not either you're
super exposed or unexposed. There's nuances in
there and you have to think about all the
different sources you're exposed to, focusing on
which you have control over and which are you

(36:02):
exposed for not a few minutes here and there, but
hours every day. So for a lot of people it would
be their phone, laptop, workstation, WI fi router
in the home. For a lot of parents and towards
their kids exposure, it will be the tablet that
they hand them or smartphone that they hand them.

(36:22):
And there are a lot of ways that they can
minimize the amount of radiation that this body
is subjected to at a close range. That's really
the key to dangers that are identified in the, in
the medical research is yes, the cell phone
towers have an impact. I cannot tell you. They
don't have an impact. But what are you to do

(36:43):
about it, right? It's, it's difficult, it's a
long term battle. The short term battle is, let's
say you hand your kid a tablet or let me give an
example from you know, we took a trip last
summer, it was to the Outer Banks, we left
Montreal. It took way too many hours of driving,
I cannot recall if it was like 14 or maybe 16

(37:04):
hours. And stopping at many different types of
convenience stores to go to the bathroom and buy
snacks. And it was like a never ending trip. Of
course I used a tablet. But what did I do prior
to that trip? I connected the tablet. I use an
ethernet cable, but you could use WI fi, there's
really no difference. You leave it in the corner

(37:25):
where no one is exposed and, and you pre download
all the movies you can, you pre download series,
you pre download games that can be played
offline. You can, even if you use Spotify or
other music apps, most of them allow you to pre
download playlists. In fact on Spotify, even on
the average tablet nowadays you could have
thousands of songs pre downloaded so much that

(37:48):
Even during these 16 hours to go and 16 hours to
come back, you would still be able to listen to
unique songs and never repeat it, repeat a single
song twice. So it's just an example of, you know,
a simple, almost stupid, stupidly simple habit
that would make all the difference because

(38:09):
instead of streaming all this content for 32
hours where you would be connected to a 4G tower
and the tablet in front of you, kid in the car
would be emitting, emitting, emitting. And
throughout the car, the car is metal on top of
that, it would be bouncing everywhere and
everyone would feel probably more fatigued, more
stress, more oxidative, oxidative stress. So

(38:33):
lower antioxidant, everyone would be, would feel
more stressed overall. That's, this is really
what it's doing to your biology. Instead of that
you have none, zero exposure from that tablet for
two to 32 hours. So it's just a change, a slight
change of habit that makes you say okay, well you
know, it's, I could do that, right? That, that's

(38:53):
how I want parents to feel. Focus on the things
that you, that make you say, okay, I could do
that. And I will not ask the average parent to
please find a way to stop the satellites from
going in the sky, right? Take a rocket ship and
bring them down. I mean it really, that's what
people seem to be focused on, when in reality,

(39:14):
they should focus on their immediate surroundings.

Meredith Oke (39:18):
And focusing on that does make a difference.

Nick Pineault (39:22):
It does.

Meredith Oke (39:23):
Yeah. It's like getting sunshine. Even, you know,
five minutes is better than no minutes. Every
little help. So what I'm hearing you say is that
any way that we can find to mitigate our
exposure, especially by the things that are
closest to our bodies, is going to be helpful.
Even though there are larger issues that we don't

(39:47):
have control over, the things that we do have
control over are going to make a difference. And
so it's like that. That balance of having enough
awareness of the true dangers to being willing to
make even small changes without getting
overwhelmed and feeling defeated and depressed,
for sure.

Nick Pineault (40:06):
And just focusing on areas that really matter. So
here's another example I get from concerned
parents. I have a trip coming up, and I'm going
to bring a tablet, and I have no idea how to turn
off the WI fi in a hotel room. We're going to be
staying there one night. And my answer is. This

(40:28):
is. Well, you know, maybe you can overstress over
these details, but I feel like maybe you should
start looking into where is the WI fi router in
your Airbnb apartment You're going to be renting
for two weeks. Right. That would matter more than
the one night in the hotel room. And if the
Airbnb apartment. Oh, I don't. I cannot even find

(40:51):
that router. I have no access to it. Forget about
it. Like, literally ignore it. Try to live your
life. But back home, when this is not your two
weeks of vacation, it's your 50 weeks of living
with your kids and husband and family. Do
something about the WI fi. Maybe you turn it off
when not in use, or maybe you turn off WI fi

(41:12):
permanently, like I did, and use Ethernet cables
to connect your devices. Whatever you choose to
do, this is where you can have the biggest
impact. So, again, it's the same framework as
food, toxins, or even diet overall, if you are
extremely concerned. Oh, Nick, you know, in 1994,
I had a sundae with pasteurized milk and cheap

(41:34):
ice cream and corn syrup on it. Like, how much of
an impact is it having on my epigenetics? I don't
know, but it's in the past, and now you can do
better. And if you want to have a Sunday once per
year, I have a hard time believing that this will
make or break your health. Except, of course, if
you're deadly allergic to certain ingredients or

(41:56):
your body is in very poor health and you have no
resilience of course you know what you're able to
handle. But the reality is that your food
decisions are, you know, over a thousand meals
per year. If you have three per day, focus on the
999 and not the one. Right? So we have, instead
of being neurotic, we have to be practical about

(42:19):
it. And I know it is overwhelming. It is
overwhelming because of the shock that people
feel when they discover EMFs. It is overwhelming,
I would say because of some of the marketing
online that is like, oh, 5G will destroy you.
You're in trouble. And sometimes I want to talk
this way, but I try to just keep it reasonable. I

(42:42):
am concerned over satellites. I am concerned
over, over 5G. I am concerned about new devices
that are stronger and even more disruptive. But
the message always remains the same. It's really
to kind of take a deep breath, try to do your
best and at least don't act or don't believe that

(43:03):
this is a non issue. That would be my problem if
you tell me, oh no, no, it's perfectly safe. I
read who and I read the Cancer Society and I read
the fcc. I would say, well, good luck. But I beg
to differ. Try to minimize exposure. And what
people feel after just minimizing One source of

(43:23):
EMFs is sometimes is surprising. I had this quick
anecdote. I rent cars at, I used to rent car at
Avis manufacturer here in Montreal. And I talked
with Claudi, who is the clerk there and I told
her about my work and of course we start talking
as the months go by. And she said, oh, you know

(43:44):
what you told me about EMFs, you know, and
turning off phone at night. I didn't tell my
husband, but I turned off our phones at night for
a few nights. And the first night is the first
night my husband slept through the night without
having to go and pee in the middle of the night.
It's the first time in 20 years, something like

(44:07):
that. And I'm like, oh my God. And they didn't
change their neighbors habits. They live in a
city so they are exposed to all sorts of things.
So imagine this is the impact from two phones in
your bedroom. The reality is that your body will
accommodate for these exposures and try to find

(44:29):
what is the best sleep I can get given these
exposures. If you remove the exposures, it might
find a new situation that is even more
advantageous for your biology. Okay, well now we
have to kind of modify brain wave patterns and
we're going to slightly tweak things and how
neurotransmitters are emitted and how melatonin
and your biology is going to change very rapidly

(44:52):
within one night. It's going to find, okay, what
is the best situation now? I'm sensing the
environment. It's kind of a little bit calmer.
We're going to try to get deeper tonight. And
turns out they had better sleep. Deeper sleep. So
the reality is that you can get benefits. And
this is what gives me hope is the confirmation
that when you turn off only a few sources, some

(45:14):
people start feeling better. It is an indication
for me that you can get benefits. No matter the
overwhelm around you and these external factors,
you can get benefits when you minimize your own
exposures. And that's, that's good news in a
sense in a, in a topic that is very daunting. You
can make a difference and it does make a

(45:37):
difference even each time you take these small
decisions.

Meredith Oke (45:41):
Yes, absolutely. And I, I love the way that you
deliver this message because being a hyper purist
extremist is, is stressful long term. And it also
makes people not want to listen because they're
like, well, I'm not doing all those crazy things
you do. Right. So what I see happen with people

(46:04):
with myself and all the people that, whose
stories I hear and people I work with. Right.
It's like when you're integrating new habits and
new changes. Yes. You are going to be hyper
focused on that issue for a period of time.
Whether it's aligning your circadian rhythms or
lowering your, mitigating your EMF or figuring
out how to feed your family, it will require
extra attention. But once it's integrated as a,

(46:28):
as a normal habit, it's okay to relax and enjoy
life and be optimistic. Speaking of things that
we have control over, something that I wanted to
talk to you about that I think is just such low
hanging fruit in terms of what industry could

(46:52):
potentially maybe I would prefer, I would like
them to be outlawed but you know, have some put
out some information on to warn people is EarPods.

Nick Pineault (47:07):
AirPods. Oh yes. Oh yeah.

Meredith Oke (47:10):
So talk to me about EarPods because they, you
know, they're small, they go in your ear like
right. Like as close to your brain as possible.
Like they seem to be breaking every rule you've
just outlined. They in terms of how to mitigate
emf and all the kids use them. My kids show up

(47:31):
places with their wired, their wired things and
people are like, oh, you guys too cool for
earbuds? You're going retro. And they're like no,
we want EarPods. Our mom won't let us.

Nick Pineault (47:43):
Yeah, yeah, well, it would almost be cooler to
say, oh yeah, I'm going like super retro and
have, I don't know, old Walkman, you know,
yellow, yellow Walkman, like wired headset just
for the sake of it. But you know, the difficulty
is that I tried two years ago, my Bose QC35 I

(48:08):
think is the model wired earbuds like these that
are very nice and they have like a feature where
you have, you have a button and you have a noise
canceling function that I like, especially on
airplanes or if you're in loud environments. It's
pretty nice. But these have been completely

(48:28):
discontinued years ago and I had to purchase
these knockoffs, which I realized is probably
not, I think I got sold like a scam because they
don't sound the same. But it was on ebay, so of
course I was kind of asking for it and they were
very cheap. So they were straight from China.
They do the job. But all that to say that society

(48:49):
is moving in a direction where it's tough to find
wired solutions. So I'll give you that it's tough
Even, you know, the average people that don't
have a ton of money would be tempted to go with
wireless earbuds and just to record a video on my
Instagram. I wanted to purchase AirPods to show

(49:12):
them, to show people not to use them. But I found
that an expensive marketing expenses because it
was like two, three hundred dollars. So I went on
Amazon and said, okay, what kind of alternatives
are there for like AirPods? You can find some for
like 29.99 or $40 USD. So very, very cheap. So

(49:33):
all that to say that even kids that are not
necessarily part of a wealthy family or have a
lot of money will be able to have these Bluetooth
earbuds in their ears for extended periods of
time, for hours on end. So of course they're to
be avoided. Now a lot of people will kind of

(49:54):
laugh at that statement, like, okay, well it's
cool that you tell me that, but my kids will not
listen to me, especially if they're older
teenagers. And let's say I completely understand
if the battle is so much that it's going to
disconnect you from your kid, then it becomes a
big issue. Like it cannot be a fight where it
puts you in, it puts your relationship in

(50:16):
jeopardy. So what can you do? Well, there are
some solutions that can be installed on the
AirPod to block 90% of the radiation. That's
called wave block. It has merits, but again is
reducing the problem by 90%, sufficient to assure
safety. We don't, we don't have an answer. We

(50:36):
don't even know. What is the safe level of
wireless exposure right next to the brain? For
all I know, it could be close to zero, which is,
you know, the equivalent of what happened with
certain very toxic substances like lead, for
example, a heavy metal. At one point, lead
exposure was thought to be, you know, slightly

(50:58):
dangerous. Eventually it was very dangerous.
Eventually it was extremely dangerous. And now
even, you know, everyone is kind of admitting,
well, the safe level is zero, right? Ideally. And
we don't have zero. In fact, I found I have
massive levels of lead in my body somehow,
because I don't even know where that's coming
from. But all that to say that, you know, the

(51:22):
more we're going to research this technology and
the more concerning the results will be. I have
no doubt about that. So reducing time of use
might be a strategy to use. So for example, if
your teenagers or kids are still use them behind
your back and they want to use them, at least you
can say, well, when you're home, you use the

(51:43):
wired solutions. That's something. So maybe when
they're home, you know, it might be 12 hours per
day they use the wires or when you're studying,
you're in one place, you're at your office,
you're at your computer, just have a different
pair that is wired at the computer. Why would you
use wireless if you're not, you know, doing a
workout or dancing or moving around? Right. So it

(52:03):
makes no sense to have wireless in these
situations. So try to have, you know, minimize
time of use and try to minimize, help them
minimize their use as much as possible. That's
what I would say. And of course we don't know
what it's doing. But for certain teenagers and
younger patients, from some of the doctors I

(52:24):
interviewed in a summit, they realized that they
had massive problems with airpods in particular,
where they had weird sensations on the skin that
lasted for several days after wearing them. And
for some of them it's tinnitus. They have a
ringing in one ear or even I heard about a
reduction in hearing quality or hearing loss,

(52:46):
partial hearing loss from radio frequency
radiation. It's plausible that it could be
happening. It's certainly not happening with
everyone. And we probably need further studies to
verify. Is it radio frequency radiation or is it,
you know, loud music and things like that that
are other factors that could affect hearing. But

(53:06):
it's plausible to think that hearing could be
impacted. In fact, you have neuroscientist Dr.
Andrew Uberman, that is very popular online and
did touch a little bit about EMS at the beginning
of 2023. And what he said is that one of the main
reasons he decided to go against Bluetooth is
that he knows very, very deeply the biology of

(53:29):
the brain and especially the inner ear and how
hearing happens. And he said there's no way these
structures are not impacted by radio frequency
radiation because these structures are delicate.
So I guess he just has a, a deep understanding
and in his mind he can picture how small the
internal inner ear apparatus is and how delicate

(53:51):
it is and how magnificently complex it is. And he
said, no, I won't put Bluetooth near it. As if,
you know, for him it's sort of something that
just didn't make sense. It's probably impacting
it even if the studies are not there. Right. So
it depends on your personal background. But I
would say, you know, for, for sure there are,

(54:13):
there are health impacts. And if you have
teenagers and they're in an age where you feel
they know about what you do for health and they
might be open to the possibility of, you know,
you have headaches. Have you thought about the
fact that, you know, some people have headaches
with cell phones or these, these wireless
earbuds? Why don't we do a test instead of

(54:36):
saying, no, they're forbidden. Right. Why don't
we do a test together? Let's use Wired solutions
for a week and see how you feel. And maybe
they're going to have curiosity towards that and
say, yeah, I hate to admit it, but the headaches
are gone. If you can find this type of effect,
well, first it's going to help them their entire

(54:58):
life because getting headaches or then relying on
Tylenol and these pharmaceutical products that
are quite harsh on, on the body and especially
toxic to the body in large quantities and over
time, if you can avoid that, that's good. But
also it's going to teach them a lesson that, yes,
the effects might be subtle for some people, but

(55:19):
for some other people they're going to get
symptoms and maybe you should be prudent towards
these exposures. So of course, if you can feel
it, it makes it very, very real for you. So
that's why one of the strategies I recommend for
all families and something we probably repeat a
thousand times during the summit is turning off
WI fi at night, turning off phones. And if you

(55:39):
only do that and you have a few family members
that say, wait a minute, I think my sleep is
better. Well, if they have just a Hint of, wait a
minute, something is off here. I sleep way better
than before or slightly better than before, then
maybe you're gonna be able to have at least this

(56:01):
conversation is going to open their mind to the
possibility that all these sources might have an
impact on their body somehow.

Meredith Oke (56:11):
Yes. And that's true. What I see as most helps
people the most is when they have a personal
experience of sleeping better or feeling better.
Right. That's the best motivator. So, one last
thing I wanted to. To talk about staying on the
topic of teenagers is the anxiety epidemic that

(56:36):
teens are experiencing. And to this day, all of
the literature and all of the documentaries that
are doing the rounds amongst the parenting groups
and the schools are entirely focused on the
content of children's lives. So the content of
social media, the content of what people are

(56:57):
saying to them or not saying to them, and the
conversation hasn't quite shifted to not just
what they're looking at on these devices, but the
effects of the devices themselves. So before we
just to wrap up, could you highlight the
connection to our mental health and specifically

(57:20):
why children and teenagers are experiencing such
high levels of anxiety and insomnia?

Nick Pineault (57:27):
Yeah. There is a very good session on EMF
impacts, especially on teenagers, and especially
focused on children's cognition and behavior by
Bonnie Tucker in the Summit. And she. I did not
know Bonnie. A few months ago she wrote to me,
she said, I'm a public health researcher. I've

(57:48):
done basically an entire review of the scientific
literature. And it's very bad. Like, we know for
sure that there's something there when it comes
to the link between exposure and then the
impacts, like add, adhd, but also depression,
anxiety, panic attacks and that whole mental

(58:12):
health crisis. So what she shared with me, for
example, in the interview, is that we have 96% of
children have cell phones. So this is a complete
shift of the patterns of exposures compared to 20
years ago, or let's say even going back 30 years
ago. I remember my dad in 1994, or let's say

(58:35):
1995, 30 years ago, as we're speaking, he used
these big brick phones from Nokia, if you can
recall them. It's completely, it's almost, it's
almost funny how they look because they, they
weighed like a thousand pounds or something and
you couldn't move them around. And yet this was
like the bulk of our exposure back then was

(58:56):
adults, of course, and business people. But now
we have children that have these exposures. And
when she talked a little bit about the science,
for her, it was very, very clear that there's a
link between EMFs and then cognition. So, for
example, she examined around 50 studies from

(59:18):
around the world. 12 were focused on cognitive
impact and 38 on behavioral and health impacts.
And out of the cognition studies, 10 out of 11
showed a statistical significance between EMF
exposure and cognitive decline in teenagers. And
it was like, it was almost like, you know, I know

(59:39):
these things. But I said, wait a minute, it's
like the vast majority of studies are showing
problems. And she said, well, not only that, when
I looked at the behavioral and health impact
studies, 34 out of 38 studies showed statistical
significance between higher exposure groups and

(01:00:00):
various symptoms. She talked about inattention
issues, behavioral problems of all sorts,
hyperactivities, headaches, sleep problems. And
she said that the odds ratio, what she says here,
I'm just reading from the transcript, not to
butcher it, the odds ratio in these studies are
particularly striking. She said, for example,

(01:00:22):
with sleep problems, the odds range from 1.9 to
5.9. So, right. You have almost six times more
likely that people are going to get problems with
higher exposures compared to control. So for her,
it was very, very shocking that, you know, how,
how come this is not communicated with the

(01:00:42):
public? It's not like we have something to prove
anymore. And it's, it's a good, you know, it's
quite dense because we go through all the
studies, but also it's important because it's not
the topic of emf. Again, it goes back to Bret
Weinstein and why were, why it's almost tough to
get into EMFs and to review the literature is

(01:01:04):
that the evidence is so clear that there's a
problem for children, for teenagers, for brain
tumors, for fertility, for impacts on nature. I
could give you 12 to 15 different research silos
where the level of evidence is so high that we
are like, wait a minute, why, why isn't that in

(01:01:26):
the news? Or why isn't there, you know, massive
urgent action being done? It should be a scandal
on so many levels. And yet, you know, for all the
reasons we discussed, it's like pushed to the
wayside or, oh, well, we need more studies. Do
we, do we need more? We do need more studies to

(01:01:48):
elicit some things, but we don't need. Most
scientists would tell me, we don't need more
studies to show harm. Right? We know the harm is
happening. And that's before 5G, even before Wi
Fi, and even at 2G and 3G and barely any WI fi,
we had already early indications. What we need to

(01:02:10):
do is to start reducing Global exposure at a
societal level that I talked about and also
individual level. The individual level would
already is communicated by certain governments
that tell citizens to. Well, if you can, they can
be very soft about it. If you can, try to

(01:02:32):
minimize exposure by doing the following. Have
wired solutions, try to turn off devices when not
in use, try not to carry a phone in the pocket,
things like that, so that could be communicated
with citizens. In fact, some scientists tried to
have at the point of sale in Berkeley,
California, a warning that said, if you want to

(01:02:53):
minimize your EMF exposure, not even the cell
phone is dangerous or anything like that. It was
very soft, it was very laid back. If you want to
minimize RF exposure, radio frequency exposure,
do the following things. And the signs were up
for, I think over a year. And eventually the
industry sued the OR tried to go against this

(01:03:15):
ordinance from the Berkeley Public Health. And
they won. And they won, saying that you are kind
of making our consumers fearful over these
exposures that are perfectly safe and therefore
you're kind of talking in a way that is

(01:03:38):
detrimental to our bottom line. And they won.
They won.

Meredith Oke (01:03:42):
Wow.

Nick Pineault (01:03:43):
It was ludicrous. It was ludicrous that they won
because these are precautionary measures. This is
preventative health. You're not saying your cell
phone will kill you. You're not saying your cell
phone will give you cancer. Maybe we should. But
anyway, that's not what they're saying. They're
saying if you want to minimize your exposure, do

(01:04:04):
the following things. And it was even that was
too threatening to the industry. So that's the
level of aggressivity we're going to see in the
next decades as we try to take this beast of an
industry and then put them back, give them
guardrails. Now you're going to move towers away

(01:04:25):
from people's home. Now you're going to make your
cell phones emit 10,000 times less within 10
years by doing the following engineering things
that probably could be done, by the way, all of
this could be made safer. Now what's going to
happen is that if you have no users connected to
a cell tower in the middle of nowhere, the cell

(01:04:46):
tower will completely turn off or emit a beacon
signal that is so small that it's almost
undetectable. Now, the WI fi routers will emit
the minimum amount possible of radiation rather
than the maximum. All of these things can be
done. But at the moment, they hold on for their

(01:05:07):
dear life to this story, this fairy tale of no
impact, no effect. Everything is safe, and that
way they don't have to redesign cell phones. They
don't have to move the towers away. They don't
have to think about safety. They don't have to
start competing on safety with other phone

(01:05:28):
manufacturers or telecoms. So it's very
convenient to keep things the same. It's so
convenient and in fact each year that they are
able to prevent us from changing safety
guidelines. They make trillions of dollars that
they would have lost in lost opportunity or in

(01:05:49):
being forced to do better research and
development. So that's how costly will be to
these industries to rethink the wireless
infrastructure, rethink the technology, the
consumer products, the. Everything needs to be
scrapped in some sense and redone. Imagine what

(01:06:12):
this represents or probably I don't even know how
many trillions of dollars it will cost to and
who's going to pay for it. And then not talking
about maybe the trillions of dollars that are
going to be given away in compensation if they
admit their guilt. So there's many, many levels

(01:06:33):
to this story. But if they start admitting that
things are not safe, it's a whole another story
and kind of worms for the industry. And so far
this is why I see, see this is why I think that
the culture of no effect is so important to them.

(01:06:54):
It's a matter of liability and of keeping
themselves in the dark is so convenient on a
human standpoint. Many people in the industry
don't want to think about it, they don't want to
hear about it and they wouldn't feel good working
for the industry if they admitted to themselves
that, that this is harmful.

Meredith Oke (01:07:17):
Yeah, there's, there's a lot to change, but it
sounds like, you know, the science is there, the
evidence is there. It's, I think now just up to
the people to, to, you know, we need a paradigm
shift. It's like 100% and I, I think it can
happen. And I feel, I truly feel on an energetic

(01:07:38):
level that we're on the cusp of, of things
shifting and becoming very, very different. And I
really appreciate all the work you've done over
the last eight years, Nick, to make this
information available, accessible, digestible,
actionable. It's a behemoth and bless you for
taking it on. And I encourage everyone to attend

(01:08:01):
the EMF Hazard Summits this year. EMF hazard
summer it's 2025. The link is in the show notes.
I'll be emailing out links to sign up. It's just
such an important topic and I feel like the more
of us that are somewhat informed, we just need to
reach A critical mass and change will be

(01:08:25):
forthcoming. Especially since we now have a
sympathetic figure in a decision making role,
which is just incredible. As you said, the world
is filled with infinite possibilities.

Nick Pineault (01:08:37):
I agree 100%. And I'm going to say this in
closing. I was very, very emotional when I heard
RFK Jr talk about electromagnetic radiation. But
I was even. I rarely get emotional about my work
in that way. There are certain things that touch
me, like people that are getting very sick from
the technology, of course, and some of them write

(01:08:59):
to me and sometimes I just tear up. It's just
part of it. I'm a human being, you know, and
it's, it's, it's tough to see people that are
struggling. But also one moment was especially
important for me two years ago. Elaine O'Connor
from the EM Radiation Trust, if I recall
correctly, she is someone who has been an

(01:09:20):
activist for, I think it's probably closer to 30
years, so way longer than me. You know, in the
very early days of cell phone safety and these
things in the UK, she told me that in the early
2000s she put together a conference with industry
people, with scientists, with Dr. And she was

(01:09:41):
very hopeful that things would change. It was
massive. You know, people meeting in the UK with
government officials and she lobbied in the UK
government. And she spent years trying to make
things happen and all of a sudden nothing
happened. And it was heartbreaking to hear it
from her that, you know, she tried to go that

(01:10:05):
route of not the grassroots movement but more
like doing, you know, trying to convince
governments and going through committees and
things like that, and nothing of substance
happened. And it was, you know, all that time
that she spent, I have no doubt that it led to
something, but not nearly enough to her liking,

(01:10:27):
like where it couldn't move the needle. And then
she said this, she said, what you're doing with
the EMF Hazard Summit is what I should have done
at the beginning because now I realize, geez,
it's one of these topics. It looks like it's only
going to be grassroots that can move the needle.
I feel like maybe she was undermining herself
saying that. And I think it's going to be legal

(01:10:50):
activism, lobbying. But consumers, people
listening to the MF Hazard Summit, people
listening to this interview, whether you purchase
something or not is irrelevant. People that have
conversations with their family members, that
have conversations that are sometimes very
difficult, let's admit this will change things

(01:11:11):
faster or more likely to make a big change
compared to people trying to lobby the government
and things like that. Maybe with RFK Jr. Is going
to change. But either way, let's not wait on one
savior to, you know, fix the entire thing. We
need to continue the conversation and like you
said, double down on how motivated we feel to

(01:11:34):
raise awareness, to protect ourselves and then to
talk about it. And to make it a normal topic of
conversation, I think is also important. A topic
that is quite often, you know, a side issue that
is considered fringe. Tinfoil Hatter there's no
serious scientists that have ever said there's
EMF dangers kind of thing. And all the BS I see

(01:11:56):
online because people are really convinced that
there's no effect. This is what they're being
told and what they've been told their entire
life. So let's put an end to this and at least
recognize that there are concerns we can argue
about. How big is the concern? I would say pretty
big. So some others would say, oh, it's slight,
you know, a small concern, but at least there is

(01:12:18):
a concern. There is something that needs to be
fixed and it's through awareness and spreading
this information that things are going to change.
And that's my angle on this. That's why I put
this summit together. I'm going to continue to be
here for years. Because we're very far from at
least a very decent fraction of the population,

(01:12:39):
at least in the western world that understand
these things and then demand from the companies
that they change their act and they put safer
options on the market.

Meredith Oke (01:12:50):
Absolutely. Just like if you, if you're health
minded and someone walks in and sees your
cupboards filled with Oreos and Fruit Loops,
they're going to be like, I thought you were into
health. We just got to live it.

Nick Pineault (01:13:01):
Yeah.

Meredith Oke (01:13:01):
And yeah, absolutely. Every voice matters, every
person listening. You matter. Please go to the
summit, listen to that. And even if you just take
away a few insights that you are then able to
talk about with your community, with your
friends, with your family, with people you know,
it all makes a difference. It's the. Yes, it's
that ripple out from the people that is going to

(01:13:24):
tip things over and support at the top is
amazing. But I'm totally with you, Nick, so let's
keep going everyone. It's a, it's an amazing
timeline we're living in. I wonder what's going
to happen next.

Nick Pineault (01:13:36):
For sure. I'm watching it like a movie. You know,
I have popcorn every day these days with hearings
and politics and controversies and all of this.
And I'm like, oh my God, what a media frenzy we
are in. It's maddening and sometimes I have to
just turn up the computer and go sit on my sofa
and relax. And I'm like, oh, my God, this is too

(01:13:56):
much. There's so much happening. But I hope that
in the midst of it all, you can find a little bit
of time for the EMF Hazard Summit. Find a few
talks to watch, and I know you're going to get a
ton of value from it. It is my hope, at least.

Meredith Oke (01:14:09):
Yeah, no, it's fantastic. I really, really
recommend everyone go and sign up for it. Nick,
thank you so much. It's always a pleasure to talk
to you. I really, really enjoy your work and our
conversations. Thanks for being here.

Nick Pineault (01:14:23):
Thanks for having me. It's been a blast. Thank
you.