May 8, 2025 • 53 mins
📺 Watch & Subscribe on YouTube
"The key part about why people are eating so much... we talk about the hyperpalatability of carbohydrates and sugar addictions... But the absence of that regulated circadian rhythm and the cues that are being sent by artificial light exposure I look at as umbrella kind of causes," says Dr. Max Gulhane, who joins the Quantum Biology Collective podcast to explain why our modern light environment is at the root of many health issues, including metabolic disorders and sleep disturbances. Dr. Gulhane, a family physician based in New South Wales, Australia, shares his journey from conventional medicine to a more holistic approach centered on circadian biology and light exposure.
In this illuminating discussion, Dr. Gulhane reveals why most artificial light sources are the equivalent of junk food for our bodies and how simple interventions like morning sunlight exposure can dramatically improve health outcomes. He explains the mechanisms behind how artificial light disrupts our natural rhythms and hormonal balance, leading to a cascade of health issues. Dr. Gulhane also discusses the integration of dietary approaches with circadian optimization, offering a comprehensive view of how to address modern health challenges.
Tune in to today's episode to learn why your light environment might be more critical to your health than your diet, and how simple changes to your daily light exposure can lead to profound improvements in sleep, metabolism, and overall well-being.
5 Key Takeaways
1. Start your day by watching the sunrise without glasses. This simple habit can dramatically improve sleep quality and regulate your circadian rhythm.
2. Create a low-light environment in the evening by using blue light blocking glasses and dimming artificial lights. This allows your body to produce melatonin naturally.
3. Prioritize getting natural sunlight exposure throughout the day, especially in the morning hours. This helps program your body's circadian rhythms and hormonal cycles.
4. View artificial lights, especially LEDs and fluorescents, as "junk light" - similar to junk food. Minimize exposure, especially at night, to support optimal health.
5. Consider light exposure as important as diet for metabolic health. Optimizing your light environment can help address issues like insulin resistance and diabetes.
Memorable Quotes
"The absence of that regulated circadian rhythm and the cues that are being sent by artificial light exposure I look at as umbrella causes of things like carbohydrate addiction, leptin resistance and insulin resistance."
"Getting your feet on the bare earth and watching the morning sunrise is the cheapest health intervention in maybe the history of the world. And no one can make money off that."
"Optimal health for reversing this chronic disease epidemic, for addressing rising cancer and dementia rates, in my mind lies in this confluence of an optimal human species-appropriate diet of unprocessed food rich in animal products and a highly regulated circadian rhythm."
Connect with Dr. Max
Regenerative Health Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/regenerative-health-with-max-gulhane-md/id1661751206
Twitter - https://x.com/maxgulhanemd
Instagram - https://instagram.com/dr_max_gulhane
Resources Mentioned
Low Carb Down Under -
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Max Gulhane (00:00):
The key part about why people are eating so much,
you know, we talk about the hyperpalatability of
carbohydrates and sugar addictions and, and
breakdown products of linoleic acid, which all
are undoubtedly playing a role in food addiction.
But the absence of that regulated circadian
rhythm and the cues that are being sent by
(00:23):
artificial light exposure I look at as umbrella
kind of causes of, of things like carbohydrate
addiction, leptin resistance and insulin
resistance. So we can kind of attack the problem
later down the causal tree.
Meredith Oke (00:36):
Welcome to the QVC podcast where we explore new
paradigms in health and science that have a
meaningful impact on our day to day lives. I'm
your host Meredith Oak, a curious coach and mom.
I started a journey to overcome chronic fatigue
and found myself in a whole new quantum universe.
I believe new research shouldn't stay locked away
(00:59):
in an ivory tower and that wisdom can be found in
many places and understood by all of us. To keep
in touch with this podcast, the QVC free
community, our episode guide and all the show
notes, please visit qbcpod.com qbcpod.com let's
(01:19):
get together to create the future we all want to
live in. Dr. Max Gulhan is a family physician
based in New South Wales, Australia and is the
host of the wonderful Regenerative Health
podcast. Early in his career, Dr. Gulhane
observed the failure of the pharmaceutical based
medical model to adequately address chronic
(01:42):
illness and prevent disease. And he began a
journey starting with diet and leading to light
to understand the best way to manage the common
complaints and illnesses he was seeing in his
practice. In this episode, Dr. Gulhane explains
why light and circadian rhythms are so important,
why we need a nature based light dark cycle as
(02:04):
the foundation of our health, and why most light
bulbs are the equivalent of junk food. We cover a
lot of other ground in this conversation as well.
Those are the key points. Enjoy. Welcome Dr. Max
Gulhane. It is an absolute pleasure to be doing
this podcast with you. For anyone who doesn't
(02:26):
know, Dr. Gulhane is the host of his own podcast
called the Regenerative Health Podcast. It's
excellent. I highly recommend anyone. If you like
this podcast, you will like his. So if you
haven't checked it out, go ahead and do that.
There's some great episodes there. So Dr.
Gulhane, tell us a little bit about your
(02:48):
background, what you, you know, what you did
traditionally and then how you sort of made the
pivot into this weird, weird and wonderful world
of quantum and circadian biology.
Dr. Max Gulhane (03:00):
Yeah, thank you so much, Meredith, for having me
on and really respect what you're doing with the
quantum biology collective here. So I'll give you
an idea about what I, yeah, how I got into this.
I've approached quantum health Originally my
health journey was through the dietary, dietary
stuff. The short story is that I essentially had
(03:26):
quite bad acne that I developed in my early,
early twenties, a bit later than everyone
normally gets skin problems. And what I found
worked really effectively for those symptoms was
a low carbohydrate and then a carnivore type
diet. And that kind of journey was precipitated
(03:49):
or hurried along by my encounter with the
healthcare system, with dermatologists and
general practitioners who were very readily and
very able to prescribe medications, but didn't
discuss lifestyle in any real meaningful way that
(04:11):
would effectively move the needle. So I guess
like a lot of the listeners that are tuning in or
listen to your podcast, it was a situation of the
patient working out how to treat themselves most
effectively and not getting that information
given to them, which I think is, I guess that's
(04:32):
one of the key problems that I'm hoping to try
and help with both with my podcast and events and
things like this is because it shouldn't be up to
the layperson to kind of wade through, you know,
all the dietary light circadian stuff themselves.
I feel like that that's the goal of the medical
(04:54):
profession is to, to actually be able to heal
people. And, and we were talking off air a little
bit about, about your health journey and it's
onerous. And luckily, you know, I had a medical
background. I was going through a science degree,
I was going through medical school. So I guess I
had the scientific and intellectual training to
(05:15):
kind of make, make sense of things a bit quicker,
which was, which was helpful. But the problem
kind of kind of still exists, exists as well
today is that it's not as easy as it should be
for people to access and be supported with, you
know, with best, best practice kind of lifestyle
(05:36):
advice. So I, yeah, along this period I went
through a couple of heavy medications for acne.
Some of you, your listeners might know of
roacutane, which is a isotretino and it's quite a
heavy medication. And after that I kind of just
basically stopped it because I was having some
mood side effects. And around the same time I was
(06:00):
experimenting things like plant based diets. And
I guess following what was supposed to be the
mainstream's endorsed approach to treating any
health condition is go plant based, had a very,
very adverse reaction to that after about eight,
nine months. And then, yeah, found low carb
(06:20):
through. There's a, I guess it's quite similar to
what you're doing. It's called low carb down
Under. It's accumulation of videos that, by
doctors that help people inform on these kind of
topics. So you're really a parallel of that
resource, but from a quantum point of view. And
then got onto Carnivore, which I found was
(06:41):
really, really, really helpful. I guess how I got
into the light stuff is that amongst the whole
intellectual, I guess you could call it a
battleground on Twitter, there's different
factions and there's different warring parties
and Dr. Jack Cruz is an outsized figure in, in
(07:02):
this kind of, in, in this arena. So I'm not sure
exactly how I found him, but someone must have
linked, linked him a video. And I basically went
down my own kind of rabbit hole because even
though I was, I'd experienced such benefits on
Carnivore, I wasn't, I wasn't necessarily happy
(07:23):
to, to say, okay, that's all there is. And I get
a feeling that some players in the health space
are content to hit a intellectual boundary of a
dietary paradigm and not progress any further.
But I don't like to do that. I always, I'm asking
why, why, why, why, why? And going deeper and
(07:45):
deeper and especially with, with someone like
Cruz and other people in the space, you know,
hanging such juicy intellectual carrots and
making claims that I need to investigate for
myself. So, yeah, some. Somewhere along the line
I found him and went down a whole bunch of his
interviews and the whole. For about, you know,
(08:05):
four or five years I'd been wearing blue light
blocking glasses because I kind of had an
intuition that it was something I should do and I
felt better when I did it. But it wasn't until
the past, probably year or year and a half that I
really launched deeper into exactly why they're
so effective and why we should be doing it. And
then this has kind of culminated and I obviously,
(08:27):
I started my podcast in December and then I met,
met, met someone at a conference and they
introduced me online to Dr. Cruz and I've kind
of, I've recorded my, my cruise series. There's
three podcasts in that so far. And then
subsequently interviewed Carrie Bennett and, and,
and kind of engaging and really now delving into
(08:49):
the quantum side of things. But, but that's,
that's where I'm at at the moment. And, and I'm
a. So I did medical school, I worked in emergency
medicine for a while and now I'm seeing my own
patients in the context of family medicine and
I've really got the opportunity to discuss about
circadian health. And I don't have one on me, but
(09:11):
I've actually made up a little flyer which I give
out to people and I think it's about, just got
six points on it. And I just explain about the
8020 of circadian health. Seeing the morning
sunrise, getting out throughout the day to get
some sun on the skin, creating a low light
environment, wearing blue light blockers and
ideally turning off WI fi during, during the
(09:35):
night. So that kind of journey and the journey of
learning about quantum biology is I guess gotten
me to the point where I'm comfortable talking
about it as an adjunct lifestyle advice to my
patients. And I guess what my job is or the way I
sit, one way I see my job is to kind of listen to
my patients, listen to their story, listen to
(09:56):
what is going on and I guess pick from a toolbox
of lifestyle interventions which one is going to
be the most effective to help their particular
problem based on what they can do with their
knowledge, what they're prepared to change. And I
think the quantum stuff is invaluable as part of
that.
Meredith Oke (10:16):
Yes. And I think it's really interesting what you
were saying about the warring factions on Twitter
or wherever there are and that because people get
so locked into like a, into the food dogma and
you know, my background is in, is in coaching,
executive coaching and helping people sort of
change, change their behaviors. So I have spent a
(10:38):
lot of time reading and thinking about that and I
notice and in my experience, when something
helps, right. So if you do switch to a certain
type of diet and it does solve some of your
problems, we tend to get extremely attached to
that and to whoever introduced us to and to the
very specific criteria of that. And then we
(10:59):
became, we become very dogmatic about whatever it
is, the food or the lifestyle intervention. And
for me I wasn't able to do that. A, I don't like,
I'm not a super big food person. So I found doing
all these food, different types of food
interventions challenging and so I didn't want to
get attached to them. And B, it wasn't working
(11:21):
right. Like I the idea that like, oh, maybe I'm
just not doing the food hard enough, that's why
I'm not getting better. You know, the results
just weren't there. So what I like, what I love
about quantum biology is like there's really no
dogma like you can do, you can eat whatever you
want. You just are understanding what is
happening from a certain perspective. Right.
(11:43):
Aside from some of the protocols that you just
mentioned in terms of optimizing light
environments, like, there's really no dogma in
this field. It's a totally wide open.
Dr. Max Gulhane (11:56):
Yeah, yeah. And I, I interviewed recovering vegan
Giselle Besson in one of my early episodes and
she described exactly what you talk about,
Meredith, which was in within the vegan ideology
there was if people were falling sick or they're
not getting better, there was this idea that
you're not veganing hard enough. You know, you're
(12:17):
not doing it enough. And, and which is obviously,
you know, we've, we've strayed into the territory
of, of relig by the time, by the time you're not
veganing hard enough. And I think to a certain
degree that can be also the case in the Carnivore
point of view is that perhaps if you're having
(12:38):
issues, you're not doing it enough or hard
enough. What I would think or what I think now is
that there are certain problems that are light
problems and food can't solve a light problem.
And, and certain patients who are basically being
held together so they're feeling better and their
(12:59):
symptoms are improved on Carnivore. But you can
see that if you remove that piece of string and
that band aid, things would fall apart. So to me
that's pointing to a deeper issue and we're not
yet getting at the root cause. It's helping, but
we're not yet solving that kind of root cause
issue. But for that reason, that's why I still
(13:20):
support Carnivore in that for someone living at a
lower latitude, particularly here in Albury
during the winter, it's very difficult to get a
meaningful amount of sunlight throughout the day.
If it's very overcast, yes, we can get outside
and still get some solar exposure, but it still
has a place in, again, maintaining people if for
(13:43):
whatever other reason they can't change things
like their latitude or the place that they live.
Meredith Oke (13:51):
Yes, absolutely. And then the diet and the light
work together and everyone's situation is
slightly different. But there are some
fundamental pieces and I find too, again from my
coaching perspective, people also tend to be very
all or nothing, like, oh, well, it's either food
(14:11):
or light or it's either this or that or I should
throw out everything I've been doing and just do,
just do light stuff. And I think we focus very
heavily on light because it, it is a missing
piece that has not been focused on. But once you
Bring that in. Like all. It's a holistic
perspective, right? Like every. Everything
(14:33):
matters.
Dr. Max Gulhane (14:34):
Yeah, yeah, I, I do. And what you said earlier, I
think there is a tendency within even health is
for people to basically get behind, as you said,
what worked for them and find ways of
scientifically justifying their own personal
biases. So whatever works for them, they're going
(14:54):
to keep kind of cheerleading. So it is, it is
difficult to try and maintain impartiality in the
face of, of your own personal lived experience,
however effective that has been. But I agree that
there is, there isn't a one size fits all.
Everyone's going to have a different percentage
response to each different intervention, whether
(15:16):
that's someone who really can't tolerate any
light after sunset. And some people really find
benefit from, you know, cutting out vegetables.
So everyone's going to respond differently. And
for that reason, like you said, I emphasize food.
Diet, like diet. I say that to my patients. You
know, optimal health lies somewhere in the middle
of these. And yeah, you want to be doing most of
(15:40):
them and most that you're able to. If you, if, if
your health is a problem and you need to get back
to that thriving point of view, that state of
being.
Meredith Oke (15:49):
Yes. And I love that food diet, light diet,
because I think one of the other things is that,
you know, and we, we talk about this a lot in the
certification, right? Like if all the research
on, on margarine came out, right, and we found
out that actually margarine is really bad for
you. Everyone's like, okay, I'm going to take
margarine out of the healthy food category and
(16:11):
move it over to the toxic food category. Got it.
But when you say to somebody like, your light
bulbs are toxic, they're like, what are you
talking about? Right? Like, we don't even have a
framework for good light, bad light. We don't
even think about it in those terms. So I love
that that you're framing it that way for your
patients and for someone who's new, how, how
(16:32):
would you explain what healthy light is versus
what toxic light is or unhealthy light?
Dr. Max Gulhane (16:41):
Yeah, I was having this exact conversation with
the last patient of the day yesterday, and I
pointed up to the fluorescent bulb in my clinic
room that I try and keep off most of the day, but
when it's overcast and dark in Aubry, I have to
turn it on. I'll have my blue blockers on. But I
(17:02):
said to him, I said, look, that, that is the meth
of light. Like, that's, that's the
methamphetamine of light it that it's an isolated
blue wavelength, it's not balanced by red. It has
no non visible, you know, infrared or any other
type of non visible wavelength. It is, you know,
the color temperature of the midday. And when you
(17:25):
exposed to it at the wrong time or in general,
but particularly at the wrong time later in the
day, after dark, you are stimulating yourself
massively by that light signal. And that's going
to prevent your body from making the melatonin
hormone. It's going to promote your body's
cortisol level, all this kind of thing. So I try
(17:48):
and explain it that just like there's junk food,
there's also junk light. And it's, it's a, it's a
highly refined form of light. And this is a, the
way that I explain food, food products to people
is if you're eating something that's processed,
anything that's processed is, is by humans is
(18:08):
going to be bad for you. Whether it's processed
wheat, you know, processed seed oils, processed
coca leaf, you know, anything that humans have
refined and purified is, is suboptimal. And that,
that analogy I think maps beautifully onto light
as well. So whenever you've got that blue light
(18:30):
that's been presented without the other
wavelengths, you've got a problem. And it also
helps to bring up the light basically spectra. I
often do that for my patients and I show them,
look at what natural daylight look like, look how
balanced it is across all the different visible
colors and then look at led, look at or all these
(18:52):
different sources. And that's a great way of
communicating to patients. Well, hang on, this is
not natural. And I think we don't have to go too
complex or too deep into it to just, that's a
visual depiction of something that's obviously
not natural. So yeah, that's kind of my general
approach. For someone who's got no idea or.
Meredith Oke (19:12):
No background in it, that makes a lot of sense. I
like that a lot. So the light that comes out of
the sun is different at different types of times
of day, but it tends to have a full spectrum.
Whereas the light that comes out of a light bulb
is like processed light in the way that refined
(19:35):
sugar is processed or refined flour is processed
and it's harsh and narrow. So we don't have all
of those other frequencies balancing anything out.
Dr. Max Gulhane (19:44):
Yeah, and like to your point earlier, people just
don't have an understanding or framework of, of
this. You know, people have an inclination that
eating refined sugar is bad. You know, a Lot of
people have an inclination that eating vegetable
oils is, is not intuitively healthy for them. But
you know, every new house that's being, that gets
(20:05):
built in Australia and in these, in estates, they
have led down lights and they're the harshest,
whitest, harshest, widest light you can, you can
find. And you know, there's the street lights in
these places are blaring. So people are getting
light into their bedrooms. They're not having a
(20:26):
fully dark, dark bedroom. And then the WI fi
router, the Internet ethernet port is in the
walking closet or opposite the main bedroom. So
where people are default plugging their WI fi
routers in is going to be next to very close to
where they sleep. So the whole, not only do
(20:46):
people not have a framework for understanding how
harmful this light environment, this artificial
light environment is, the whole environment, the
built environment, whether that's at home or at
work, is also set up for the exact opposite of
what you and I know to be an optimal human light
environment. So there's no wonder why people are
(21:11):
sick, overweight, or having carbohydrate
addictions. All these problems that we know have
a deep contribution by their light environment.
It's, that's why I respect what you're doing so
much. Because we really need to give an awareness
that, that this is not normal, this is not
natural, and this is very, very meaningfully
(21:32):
impacting health.
Meredith Oke (21:35):
Yes. So explain to us what's happening. So let's
start with, with the harmful piece and then we'll
talk about the healing piece, which would be, you
know, going out in natural sunlight, especially
in the morning. But so the harmful piece is I
come home from work at the end of the day, it's
starting to get dark out. I throw on my overhead
(21:57):
led, I turn on the television, I'm scrolling on
my phone, and I do that till like 11 o'clock at
night. And then I shut it all off and go to bed.
And there's still some of those super harsh
street lights coming through the cracks in the
blinds. And it's not quite dark and I can still
kind of see, but whatever, that's the way it is.
And then I wonder why I'm not sleeping well. So
(22:22):
if that's my sort of environment, what is that
light doing to my body? What is the effect?
Dr. Max Gulhane (22:30):
Yeah, so I think of it as you're basically not
giving your body a break, you're not allowing
your body to recover. And the reason why is
because prior to the invention of the electricity
grid, the only sources of light that we had were
candlelight, firelight after dark. And prior to
(22:54):
organized civilization, for the millions of years
of human evolution, we were adapted and evolved
to having periods of distinct absence of light.
So we had sun rising, we had a changing but
balanced exposure to sunlight with visible and
(23:16):
non, non visible spectra that that changed and
modulated throughout the day. That was in a
constant state of programming our biological
functions. And then it ended and there was
complete darkness. And during that period the
body was able to go into its, you know, nocturnal
or its sleep mode with a whole bunch of, of
(23:38):
hormonal actions taking place, particular of that
melatonin hormone from your pineal gland. So
that's kind of the norm. That was what allowed us
to exist and that's what we were adapted to. I
think that's the key point. What is normal, what
is natural? What does our biology need? And that
(23:58):
was it. It was absence of light at dark and it
was constant exposure to natural sunlight
frequencies. So with the invention of the
electric grid and then or fast forward all the
way up to today, the presence of that artificial
light at night is preventing us from accessing
(24:19):
that, that normal light absence period during,
during darkness that we need to recover. So when
that, when that's occurring, we're not making
melatonin, we're not, we have having cortisol
elevated, we're not recovering. And when we're
sending critically the wrong signals to our
(24:40):
biology about how to program the entire organism.
So that's how I think about it at a very high
level. Again it's just like people in this
society are used to eating every two hours. What
was evolutionarily normal that we would have
(25:00):
periods of fasting where we didn't have any food.
So that yin and Yang, the absence and the
presence, absence of food, presence of food,
absence of light, presence of food has been lost.
And now we're constantly just sipping from the
slurpee of artificial light all through the
night. And we can go into the exact mechanisms,
but that's critically the issue because you're
(25:22):
not allowing the body to recover and it has
deleterious effects on our ability to use glucose
to all the mitochondrial function, everything. So
that, that's I guess how I think about it at a
high level.
Meredith Oke (25:39):
Lovely, thank you for that explanation. And
that's the explanation that I like to go with
that makes sense to me. Now I know that there are
people listening who are like he said, mechanism,
what is it? So let's, we will briefly, I don't
want to go go too deep into, into that side of
things. But the high level, the high level
(26:01):
explanation is that a lack of darkness and the
presence of artificial light is causing our
bodies to not be able to restore and repair them.
Repair the way we're supposed to when we're
sleeping. So what is the mechanism at play there?
Just briefly, we don't have to spend too long
here, but I know if I don't ask.
Dr. Max Gulhane (26:21):
Yeah, so. So it's the blue, the blue and green
wavelengths when they hit your retina, your eye.
And that light gets sensed by your non visual
photoreceptors, your intrinsically photosensitive
retinal ganglion cells. And there's the opsins,
like melanopsin, sense these light wavelengths
(26:44):
and they send signals all the way from your
retina to your hypothalamus to your
suprachiasmatic nucleus. And that affects the way
your body's, your, your body's ability to make
melatonin. So the melatonin hormones is secreted
by the pineal gland at nighttime, a couple of
(27:07):
hours after sunset, in, in the absence of light,
it gets secreted. So when we're exposed to these
artificial lights, we're telling the body, no,
don't make melatonin. Because again, you, you,
it's the color temperature of the daytime. It's a
daytime like signal. So you, you get that dump of
melatonin that we're supposed to make
appropriately. Plus, people haven't seen this
(27:28):
morning sunrise because their first light that
they've seen has been their phone when they've
woken up. So the programming, the coordination of
the circadian signaling from the beginning of the
day all the way to the point at which they lay
down is being disrupted and is being confused in
(27:49):
the absence of. I mean, melatonin is not the only
hormone. But there's a reason why shift workers
have increased risk of cancer. There's reasons
why vitamin D deficiency is associated with all
these cancers and ischemic heart disease and all
the rest. Because it's a proxy for sunlight
(28:11):
exposure, and it's a proxy for the
appropriateness of one's circadian rhythm. And
when those things are disrupted, then again, your
endogenous antioxidant system, which is governed
by melatonin, precisely, is out of whack. And
melatonin is not only secreted by the pineal
(28:33):
gland, this melatonin made in your mitochondria
by yourselves during the day on exposure to
infrared and UVA light. And that melatonin is
locally having an antioxidant effect. So if
people are not getting daytime sunlight and
they're also exposed to artificial light. They're
having the double whammy of lack of exposure,
(28:54):
lack of secretion of that local daytime melatonin
and the nighttime melatonin. So again, it's like
the antioxidant system isn't being properly
primed or properly allowed to function and you
get mitochondrial dysfunction, oxidative stress
and all these things. So yeah, that's I guess
(29:18):
again focused on the action to melatonin, but
that is how I think about it particularly.
Meredith Oke (29:26):
Okay, so these are all the problems that we're
causing in our system by not having a
sufficiently dark or dim light environment in the
evening and while we're sleeping. So what is
going on when we go outside in the morning,
particularly at sunrise or UVA rise that those
(29:47):
first few hours of the day, how is that helping
us?
Dr. Max Gulhane (29:52):
Yeah, I see it as, as a, the signal, it's like
the, it's maybe it's almost like the, the band or
the orchestra is getting the cue to all start
playing at the same time. You know, otherwise
without, without that coordinating signal, you
know, everyone's kind of still warming up,
playing odd, odd notes at the wrong time. But the
(30:16):
critical aspect of that morning sunlight through
visible and non visible light and later, as you
said, the UVA comes in later in the day is that
we're basically pressing play on all our bodily
processes and getting them aligned and
coordinated to start. I love how Dr. J.
(30:39):
Montgomery describes it. It's like that your eye
is one of the most, it's a most powerful
neuroendocrine organ. So what people I guess
would benefit from understanding is that that eye
is sensing your light environment. It's not only
forming images, it's actually sensing the light
(31:05):
and the different wavelengths of light. And the
morning light is critical because it's
essentially setting you up for not only to start
the day, but it's also setting you up for that,
that night's sleep later in the day. So yeah, I
talked to Kerry Bennett about this and you know,
we, we made the comment that, you know, if
(31:25):
cutting out seed oils is the 8020 of nutrition,
then getting morning sunlight is probably, you
know, the 6040 of, of circadian biology just
because of how important it is in, in programming
everything.
Meredith Oke (31:39):
Absolutely. And I think it's really interesting
because before I sort of came to all of this from
a, from a health and healing perspective, the
only time I thought about circadian rhythm was
when I traveled through time zones and became jet
lagged. And I kind of had a vague idea that like,
yeah, circadian rhythm is like why I feel tired
(32:01):
in the middle of the day when I'm in a different
time zone. But I had no understanding, and even
some of the foremost experts in circadian rhythms
had no understanding of just how critical having
a regulated circadian biology is. Could you
really bring that home for us? Because I think
(32:22):
that that's a piece that we often miss. I've come
to the place where I feel like it's basically
impossible to be healthy if your circadian
rhythms are misaligned.
Dr. Max Gulhane (32:35):
Yeah. And it ties back to the point we were
making earlier in the discussion, is that the
dietary stuff is important, and it will
definitely help, but it is a facet. I see dietary
interventions. And the biochemistry behind what
(32:55):
we do with diet is fitting into this wider. This
wider area of circadian and mitochondrial health,
which is fundamentally a problem of physics and
of biophysics. So the point is that all these
bodily functions do have a circadian regulation.
(33:18):
And I talked to Dr. Jack Cruz in my podcast
series about Pomse, and for the listeners, it's
essentially a gene that's expressed in a bunch of
neurons and a bunch of places in the body, but it
has all these different products that get made
when we're exposed to UV light that govern
(33:43):
metabolism, they govern the stress response, they
govern addiction centers. So the key. The key
part about why people are eating so much, you
know, we talk about the hyperpalatability of
carbohydrates and sugar addictions and. And the
breakdown products of linoleic acid, which all
(34:05):
are undoubtedly playing a role in. In food
addiction. But the absence of that regulated
circadian rhythm and the cues that are being sent
by artificial light exposure. Afternoon. A light
I look at as umbrella kind of causes of. Of
things like carbohydrate addiction, you know,
leptin resistance and insulin resistance. So we
(34:28):
can kind of attack the problem later down the
causal tree. And it's not to say that that, that
won't work. I mean, I. I'm. I just helped a
patient come, you know, half his insulin dose,
and we've only, you know, we. We're doing. On
the. We're doing a low carb diet. But I think
that if we could also get him regulated from a
circadian point of view, then the improvement
(34:50):
that we'd make would be even greater and getting
him out in the sun. So to answer the question, I
see it as the umbrella problem. The umbrella
problem is our. It's our regulated or lack of
regulated circadian rhythm. And the exposure to
all these artificial lights, whether they're
Visible like blue light or non visible like WI fi
(35:14):
and the rest of those types of non native emf.
Meredith Oke (35:19):
Right. And so what kind of outcomes are you
seeing in your practice and with your patients
for? Let's start with people who are able to
comply with your suggested light protocols.
What's happening with those people?
Dr. Max Gulhane (35:35):
Yeah, so people, people just feel a lot more
grounded. They feel a lot better. A lot of people
have just described again, what you, what you've
said to me, which is, you know, they felt it was
kind of the missing piece in, in what they have
been doing. I mean, one of my favorite stories is
a old couple, an old lady in her 80s who, who
(35:59):
hadn't slept through the night in the past
probably 15 years. And I just said to her, look,
because I'm a little bit careful with the
elderly, with the low light environment because I
don't want them to fall over after dark, but I
just said, go sit on the porch and see the
sunrise every morning without any kind of glasses
on. And just sitting out there with her husband
(36:20):
every morning was enough to. She came back
ecstatic that she'd slept through the night and
was sleeping through the night for the first time
in over a decade. So really simple and nothing
fancy. But yeah, those type of stories are, are
very, very common. And yeah, people, people are
(36:43):
finding that, you know, often I'm seeing a lot of
patients who perhaps have been through
naturopaths, a couple maybe functional doctors
and you know, they're on a, they're on a list of,
of supplements and that no one's talked about
their line environment. And again, it's like,
yeah, we can add all these things in. But you
(37:07):
know, maybe you listeners of Red, Nassim Taleb,
he's got a concept of via Negativa, which is
first remove the bad before we add things on. And
I think removing that or improving that line
environment should be in terms of order of
operations. It takes precedent. Before we add,
you know, a list of expensive supplements.
Meredith Oke (37:30):
Yeah, yeah, I really come to think that as well.
And again, when I first got into that, like I was
saying earlier, we have that all or nothing
thinking, I was like, I'm never taking a
supplement ever again. It's all about light. So
I've now sort of softened that stance and I do
think that supplementation has its place. But as
(37:52):
you said, after you've optimized your light
environment. Because how, like, how can a
practitioner even know what supplement would be
useful to somebody if their body is in total
circadian chaos? Right. If they're totally
dysregulated if they're not. Like if you put
someone on a melatonin supplement when the
problem could be fixed with light, like you're
(38:14):
not solving any problems, as you pointed out.
Dr. Max Gulhane (38:17):
Yeah, yeah. And the point I wanted to make as
well is that you know that, that the light part,
the signals like the retinal hypothalamic tract
that goes from your eye to your hypothalamus,
that projects to your pituitary gland and the
regulation of all those pituitary hormones is
influenced by, by our light environment. So it's
(38:39):
not just the pineal and the melatonin, but
everything along all these axes, the ovarian, the
adrenal, everything, the thyroid, all these axes
have an influence by, by light signal. And the
coordination of a lot of these hormones which
follow diurnal curves is influenced by the light
(39:00):
environment. And the other point, Meredith, is
that this is not like hoodoo or it's not like
this is not science that exists. If you look in
PubMed and you type in these findings, there is a
massive body of scientific literature that is
(39:21):
describing everything that we're talking about
and as is the case with a range of lifestyle
medicine, is that that scientific foundation is
simply not being translated or applied in a
clinical practice setting. It's not because
there's an absence of evidence of efficacy. It's
(39:43):
simply that the guidelines are not reflecting
what we know to be true and effective. And we say
the same thing in the dietary low carb paradigm.
And there's lots of different reasons for that,
but one could, especially a patient or other
doctors who might be listening. One could be
(40:04):
misled to think that this is very, very fringe,
or there's simply not the evidence to justify
what we're talking about. But it takes a very,
very cursory look at the evidence in the
literature to even. You can look up Wikipedia if
you, if you don't want to go that deep. But
everything that we've talked about is very well
researched and, and applied, kind of established.
(40:28):
And the application of the knowledge through
things like blue light blocking glasses and red
lights and all this kind of thing is simply the
application of that science that already exists.
So I just want to make that point to some of your
listeners who might think this is fringe. It's.
(40:48):
If you look yourself and not rely on a filter of
perhaps mainstream medicine, functional medicine,
all these entities that have their own reasons,
often financial, for promoting certain treatment
protocols over others, if you do your own
research, you'll find that what we've been
(41:09):
talking about is very well established.
Meredith Oke (41:13):
That is a really, really good point. Yes. The
research just on circadian rhythm alone is. I
mean, I feel like every month some major new
paper comes out just showing just how important
it is. And last summer, the New York Times
Magazine did a huge cover story. It was like 10
(41:35):
pages long on circadian rhythm. And there's like
an anecdote in there where some of the research
came out that showed just how, how important it
is. And the, the head of the Circadian Research
Institute was like, what? Really? Oh, we, we were
just, we were just thinking like light and like
sort of light cycles, and they had no idea. So
(41:57):
it. Yes, it is. Absolutely. The evidence is all
there and that's what we talk about a lot. And
why, like, we started the certification is like.
And what you're doing with your podcast, it's
like building a bridge from the science into the
practice. Because I don't know if it ever existed
or if it, or if the bridge broke, but there does
not seem to be a pipeline of best practice into
(42:21):
that's going into the offices of the
practitioners, even the naturopaths. Right. Like,
it's, there's a disconnect there. And all of, all
of this. And maybe it's because the answer is so
simple, right? Like, go and watch. Sit on your
porch at sunrise with your husband. It's like, if
(42:42):
I feel like solving 15 years of insomnia should
be more complicated than that. Yeah, but it's not
in most cases.
Dr. Max Gulhane (42:50):
And, and that point you made about the
simplicity, I do think that the degree to which
something is simple is that agree to which
someone can't make money off it. So, yeah,
getting your feet on the bare earth and watching
the morning sunrise is the cheapest intervention,
health intervention in maybe the history of the
(43:13):
world. And no one can make money off that. And we
see not only mainstream medicine, but as you
mentioned, functional neuropathy, that there's
expensive solutions to problems that have, you
know, that these are light problems. So perhaps
(43:34):
that's, that's, you know, if I was putting my
skeptical hat on, I would, I would definitely say
that it's a money issue. And no one can make
money from these simple circadian interventions.
So that's why they're less well promoted, I
guess. What. And I really like how you framed
the, the job of making this pipeline into. To the
(43:56):
practitioners. And yeah, I see that as critical.
And just like what you're doing, you don't
necessarily need to have an MD to kind of give
this advice. Health Coaches, anyone can give this
advice and if it's in the best interest of the
patient, then other MDs need to put aside their
(44:17):
egos and not feel like this is, you know,
privileged information and they're the only ones
able to give this information. If it's in the
best interest of the patient, then this needs to
be talked about by everyone. No matter what their
training background is. If they understand what,
what, how the biology works and they're giving
good advice, then that, that, that's key. The,
(44:38):
the other point I wanted to make is that coming
from metabolic lifestyle, a dietary kind of
paradigm originally and actively practicing as a
doctor who's reversing diabetes and lifestyle
diseases with low carb carnivore, I see it as a
personal interest of mine to integrate the
(45:01):
dietary and the light stuff from a metabolic
point of view. And that's why I'm so interested
in what Dr. Jack Cruz was talking about, about
COMC and protein called clip and all these
ability for blue light to promote fasting, raised
(45:24):
fasting glucose and fasting insulin irrespective
of food. Because I think that is a real
underserved or under talked about area, which is
the intersection of, of the light environment and
metabolism. And that, that is really, really
fascinating because so many people are insulin
resistant and metabolically unwell and have
visceral fat. So that is, yeah, that's a personal
(45:47):
interest of mine. And I hope to, I guess, keep
keep going on this intellectual journey and keep
talking to people from both areas and, and kind
of package this up in a way that again is most
able to give to a patient who's got diabetes,
fatty liver, visceral fat, and be like, okay,
here you go. This is how we start to heal you.
Meredith Oke (46:12):
That's a wonderful idea. I love that so much and
what it brings up for me again as a coach who
works with people on the more emotional and
behavior change side, is that bringing in the
light piece and marrying the metabolic with the
circadian, I think also just gives people such a,
(46:37):
it's a real relief, right? Because there's so
much shame around our food habits, especially if
you have diet, you know, you have type 2 diabetes
or you're overweight, people feel so much shame
that they can't control it. And then to get the
knowledge that there are other habits in their
life that they see as completely disconnected
from this problem, like looking at their phone at
(47:00):
midnight on full factory settings, to know that
those things are actively working against them
and making everything worse. And it's not just a
willpower it's not just that they're totally
screwed and there's no way out. I do see that it
offers relief and hope to know that actually I've
(47:22):
been swimming against the current trying to
change how my body's responding to food without
changing my life.
Dr. Max Gulhane (47:30):
Yeah, definitely, yes.
Meredith Oke (47:31):
So anything else Dr. Gilhane, that you'd like to
leave us with?
Dr. Max Gulhane (47:35):
Yeah, so, so I'm yeah, on, on the vein of, of I
guess marrying all this together. I'm hosting an
event in, in Albury and hopefully it'll be the
first of many. But I've got Dr. Jalal Khan who's
a circadian quantum dentist and I'll be talking.
(47:56):
We've got Dr. Anthony Chaffee who's on the
carnivore side. We've got some regenerative,
regenerative pharma who I work with. So we're
really kind of bringing in all aspects of, of
what I think is, is good, relevant for people's
health. And I really think that moving forward,
like collectively we don't need more drugs,
(48:20):
people don't need more drugs, they don't need
more supplements, they need more very high
quality, regeneratively raised ruminant meat.
They need more seafood, they need more circadian
regulation and they need less WI fi and less,
(48:41):
less, less drugs. So that is I guess an angle
that I'm really excited about in the future. And
I think that optimal health for everyone, for the
population, for reversing this chronic disease
epidemic, for reversing the metabolic disease
epidemic, for addressing all the fundamental
(49:04):
problems, rising cancer and dementia rates,
everything in my mind this is just my opinion
lies in this confluence of an optimal human
species, appropriate diet of unprocessed food
rich in animal products and a highly regulated
circadian rhythm, the absence of artificial light
(49:27):
at night and morning sunrise and everything like
that. And I think that regenerative farming is a
key point because that's one of the delivery
mechanisms of getting that high quality food into
people. So that's, I guess to end this
discussion. Again, it's like I'm emphasizing the
holistic aspect of this. And again it's not just
(49:48):
one thing, it's a whole confluence of things. And
if we can add up, you know, all these 5
percenters in terms of behavior change, then
that's the key to, to optimal health as I see it.
Meredith Oke (50:01):
I love it. Okay. And we actually there are quite
a lot of quantum enthusiasts in Australia so I
want to just give some more details. When is your
event?
Dr. Max Gulhane (50:13):
So it will be on August 6th in Albury here,
Aubrey. New South Wales.
Meredith Oke (50:20):
Okay. And Albury is, you said sort of in between
Sydney and Melbourne, is that right? Did I get
that? Yeah.
Dr. Max Gulhane (50:27):
Correct.
Meredith Oke (50:27):
Okay.
Dr. Max Gulhane (50:28):
So it's about, it's about a six hour drive from
Sydney and it's a three and a half hour drive
from Melbourne on the border of Queens of
Victoria and New South Wales.
Meredith Oke (50:37):
Okay. And this event takes place over, over two
or three days or it's a.
Dr. Max Gulhane (50:43):
It'S a single day event. There'll be about,
there's four, four speakers and. But we're
organizing a farm tour at the local Jake Wilkes
farm that will be happening day before and we'll
also be organizing an event dinner. So I'll, I
might send you the details. You can put them in
the show notes.
Meredith Oke (51:02):
We will put the details to that in the show
notes. We have shared this event in our
newsletter. We'll do that again and I'll
especially make sure that all of, all of our, the
Australian QVC members are aware of it and. Yeah.
Are you going to record the speakers? Will people.
Dr. Max Gulhane (51:19):
Yeah, yeah, that's the plan. Yeah.
Meredith Oke (51:21):
Great.
Dr. Max Gulhane (51:21):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (51:22):
So we'll share those details when they come out
as well for people if they want to access the
recordings because this sounds like a, sounds
like a beautiful event. I'm so happy you're doing
it. I do think, as much as I love leveraging
technology, I do think in person meetups are, are
absolutely the key. We've got a quantum entangle
(51:42):
at a close up range.
Dr. Max Gulhane (51:44):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Meredith Oke (51:48):
Okay.
Dr. Max Gulhane (51:51):
Yeah. And if, if anyone is wanting to follow my
podcast. Yeah. As you said earlier, it's the
Regenerative Health podcast on the podcasting
apps. And I'm also on Twitter maxcorhan md and
Instagram. Dr. Underscore. Max underscore Gulhein.
Meredith Oke (52:10):
Perfect. And we will have links to all of that in
the show notes as well. So check out Dr.
Gulhane's podcast and follow him on his socials
and yeah, let's, let's keep this movement
growing. Thank you so much for your time today.
This has just been an absolute pleasure.
Dr. Max Gulhane (52:29):
Thank you Meredith and thanks for everything you
do as well.
Meredith Oke (52:32):
Thank you. This has been the Quantum Biology
Collective podcast to find a practitioner who
practices from this point of view. Visit our
directory@quantumbiologycollective.org if you are
a practitioner, definitely take a look at the
Applied Quantum Biology certification. A six week
(52:55):
study of the science of the new human health
paradigm and its practical application with your
patients and clients. We also love to feature
graduates of the program on this very podcast.
Until next time, the QVC.
The key part about why people are eating so much,
you know, we talk about the hyperpalatability of
carbohydrates and sugar addictions and, and
breakdown products of linoleic acid, which all
are undoubtedly playing a role in food addiction.
But the absence of that regulated circadian
rhythm and the cues that are being sent by
(00:23):
artificial light exposure I look at as umbrella
kind of causes of, of things like carbohydrate
addiction, leptin resistance and insulin
resistance. So we can kind of attack the problem
later down the causal tree.
Meredith Oke (00:36):
Welcome to the QVC podcast where we explore new
paradigms in health and science that have a
meaningful impact on our day to day lives. I'm
your host Meredith Oak, a curious coach and mom.
I started a journey to overcome chronic fatigue
and found myself in a whole new quantum universe.
I believe new research shouldn't stay locked away
(00:59):
in an ivory tower and that wisdom can be found in
many places and understood by all of us. To keep
in touch with this podcast, the QVC free
community, our episode guide and all the show
notes, please visit qbcpod.com qbcpod.com let's
(01:19):
get together to create the future we all want to
live in. Dr. Max Gulhan is a family physician
based in New South Wales, Australia and is the
host of the wonderful Regenerative Health
podcast. Early in his career, Dr. Gulhane
observed the failure of the pharmaceutical based
medical model to adequately address chronic
(01:42):
illness and prevent disease. And he began a
journey starting with diet and leading to light
to understand the best way to manage the common
complaints and illnesses he was seeing in his
practice. In this episode, Dr. Gulhane explains
why light and circadian rhythms are so important,
why we need a nature based light dark cycle as
(02:04):
the foundation of our health, and why most light
bulbs are the equivalent of junk food. We cover a
lot of other ground in this conversation as well.
Those are the key points. Enjoy. Welcome Dr. Max
Gulhane. It is an absolute pleasure to be doing
this podcast with you. For anyone who doesn't
(02:26):
know, Dr. Gulhane is the host of his own podcast
called the Regenerative Health Podcast. It's
excellent. I highly recommend anyone. If you like
this podcast, you will like his. So if you
haven't checked it out, go ahead and do that.
There's some great episodes there. So Dr.
Gulhane, tell us a little bit about your
(02:48):
background, what you, you know, what you did
traditionally and then how you sort of made the
pivot into this weird, weird and wonderful world
of quantum and circadian biology.
Dr. Max Gulhane (03:00):
Yeah, thank you so much, Meredith, for having me
on and really respect what you're doing with the
quantum biology collective here. So I'll give you
an idea about what I, yeah, how I got into this.
I've approached quantum health Originally my
health journey was through the dietary, dietary
stuff. The short story is that I essentially had
(03:26):
quite bad acne that I developed in my early,
early twenties, a bit later than everyone
normally gets skin problems. And what I found
worked really effectively for those symptoms was
a low carbohydrate and then a carnivore type
diet. And that kind of journey was precipitated
(03:49):
or hurried along by my encounter with the
healthcare system, with dermatologists and
general practitioners who were very readily and
very able to prescribe medications, but didn't
discuss lifestyle in any real meaningful way that
(04:11):
would effectively move the needle. So I guess
like a lot of the listeners that are tuning in or
listen to your podcast, it was a situation of the
patient working out how to treat themselves most
effectively and not getting that information
given to them, which I think is, I guess that's
(04:32):
one of the key problems that I'm hoping to try
and help with both with my podcast and events and
things like this is because it shouldn't be up to
the layperson to kind of wade through, you know,
all the dietary light circadian stuff themselves.
I feel like that that's the goal of the medical
(04:54):
profession is to, to actually be able to heal
people. And, and we were talking off air a little
bit about, about your health journey and it's
onerous. And luckily, you know, I had a medical
background. I was going through a science degree,
I was going through medical school. So I guess I
had the scientific and intellectual training to
(05:15):
kind of make, make sense of things a bit quicker,
which was, which was helpful. But the problem
kind of kind of still exists, exists as well
today is that it's not as easy as it should be
for people to access and be supported with, you
know, with best, best practice kind of lifestyle
(05:36):
advice. So I, yeah, along this period I went
through a couple of heavy medications for acne.
Some of you, your listeners might know of
roacutane, which is a isotretino and it's quite a
heavy medication. And after that I kind of just
basically stopped it because I was having some
mood side effects. And around the same time I was
(06:00):
experimenting things like plant based diets. And
I guess following what was supposed to be the
mainstream's endorsed approach to treating any
health condition is go plant based, had a very,
very adverse reaction to that after about eight,
nine months. And then, yeah, found low carb
(06:20):
through. There's a, I guess it's quite similar to
what you're doing. It's called low carb down
Under. It's accumulation of videos that, by
doctors that help people inform on these kind of
topics. So you're really a parallel of that
resource, but from a quantum point of view. And
then got onto Carnivore, which I found was
(06:41):
really, really, really helpful. I guess how I got
into the light stuff is that amongst the whole
intellectual, I guess you could call it a
battleground on Twitter, there's different
factions and there's different warring parties
and Dr. Jack Cruz is an outsized figure in, in
(07:02):
this kind of, in, in this arena. So I'm not sure
exactly how I found him, but someone must have
linked, linked him a video. And I basically went
down my own kind of rabbit hole because even
though I was, I'd experienced such benefits on
Carnivore, I wasn't, I wasn't necessarily happy
(07:23):
to, to say, okay, that's all there is. And I get
a feeling that some players in the health space
are content to hit a intellectual boundary of a
dietary paradigm and not progress any further.
But I don't like to do that. I always, I'm asking
why, why, why, why, why? And going deeper and
(07:45):
deeper and especially with, with someone like
Cruz and other people in the space, you know,
hanging such juicy intellectual carrots and
making claims that I need to investigate for
myself. So, yeah, some. Somewhere along the line
I found him and went down a whole bunch of his
interviews and the whole. For about, you know,
(08:05):
four or five years I'd been wearing blue light
blocking glasses because I kind of had an
intuition that it was something I should do and I
felt better when I did it. But it wasn't until
the past, probably year or year and a half that I
really launched deeper into exactly why they're
so effective and why we should be doing it. And
then this has kind of culminated and I obviously,
(08:27):
I started my podcast in December and then I met,
met, met someone at a conference and they
introduced me online to Dr. Cruz and I've kind
of, I've recorded my, my cruise series. There's
three podcasts in that so far. And then
subsequently interviewed Carrie Bennett and, and,
and kind of engaging and really now delving into
(08:49):
the quantum side of things. But, but that's,
that's where I'm at at the moment. And, and I'm
a. So I did medical school, I worked in emergency
medicine for a while and now I'm seeing my own
patients in the context of family medicine and
I've really got the opportunity to discuss about
circadian health. And I don't have one on me, but
(09:11):
I've actually made up a little flyer which I give
out to people and I think it's about, just got
six points on it. And I just explain about the
8020 of circadian health. Seeing the morning
sunrise, getting out throughout the day to get
some sun on the skin, creating a low light
environment, wearing blue light blockers and
ideally turning off WI fi during, during the
(09:35):
night. So that kind of journey and the journey of
learning about quantum biology is I guess gotten
me to the point where I'm comfortable talking
about it as an adjunct lifestyle advice to my
patients. And I guess what my job is or the way I
sit, one way I see my job is to kind of listen to
my patients, listen to their story, listen to
(09:56):
what is going on and I guess pick from a toolbox
of lifestyle interventions which one is going to
be the most effective to help their particular
problem based on what they can do with their
knowledge, what they're prepared to change. And I
think the quantum stuff is invaluable as part of
that.
Meredith Oke (10:16):
Yes. And I think it's really interesting what you
were saying about the warring factions on Twitter
or wherever there are and that because people get
so locked into like a, into the food dogma and
you know, my background is in, is in coaching,
executive coaching and helping people sort of
change, change their behaviors. So I have spent a
(10:38):
lot of time reading and thinking about that and I
notice and in my experience, when something
helps, right. So if you do switch to a certain
type of diet and it does solve some of your
problems, we tend to get extremely attached to
that and to whoever introduced us to and to the
very specific criteria of that. And then we
(10:59):
became, we become very dogmatic about whatever it
is, the food or the lifestyle intervention. And
for me I wasn't able to do that. A, I don't like,
I'm not a super big food person. So I found doing
all these food, different types of food
interventions challenging and so I didn't want to
get attached to them. And B, it wasn't working
(11:21):
right. Like I the idea that like, oh, maybe I'm
just not doing the food hard enough, that's why
I'm not getting better. You know, the results
just weren't there. So what I like, what I love
about quantum biology is like there's really no
dogma like you can do, you can eat whatever you
want. You just are understanding what is
happening from a certain perspective. Right.
(11:43):
Aside from some of the protocols that you just
mentioned in terms of optimizing light
environments, like, there's really no dogma in
this field. It's a totally wide open.
Dr. Max Gulhane (11:56):
Yeah, yeah. And I, I interviewed recovering vegan
Giselle Besson in one of my early episodes and
she described exactly what you talk about,
Meredith, which was in within the vegan ideology
there was if people were falling sick or they're
not getting better, there was this idea that
you're not veganing hard enough. You know, you're
(12:17):
not doing it enough. And, and which is obviously,
you know, we've, we've strayed into the territory
of, of relig by the time, by the time you're not
veganing hard enough. And I think to a certain
degree that can be also the case in the Carnivore
point of view is that perhaps if you're having
(12:38):
issues, you're not doing it enough or hard
enough. What I would think or what I think now is
that there are certain problems that are light
problems and food can't solve a light problem.
And, and certain patients who are basically being
held together so they're feeling better and their
(12:59):
symptoms are improved on Carnivore. But you can
see that if you remove that piece of string and
that band aid, things would fall apart. So to me
that's pointing to a deeper issue and we're not
yet getting at the root cause. It's helping, but
we're not yet solving that kind of root cause
issue. But for that reason, that's why I still
(13:20):
support Carnivore in that for someone living at a
lower latitude, particularly here in Albury
during the winter, it's very difficult to get a
meaningful amount of sunlight throughout the day.
If it's very overcast, yes, we can get outside
and still get some solar exposure, but it still
has a place in, again, maintaining people if for
(13:43):
whatever other reason they can't change things
like their latitude or the place that they live.
Meredith Oke (13:51):
Yes, absolutely. And then the diet and the light
work together and everyone's situation is
slightly different. But there are some
fundamental pieces and I find too, again from my
coaching perspective, people also tend to be very
all or nothing, like, oh, well, it's either food
(14:11):
or light or it's either this or that or I should
throw out everything I've been doing and just do,
just do light stuff. And I think we focus very
heavily on light because it, it is a missing
piece that has not been focused on. But once you
Bring that in. Like all. It's a holistic
perspective, right? Like every. Everything
(14:33):
matters.
Dr. Max Gulhane (14:34):
Yeah, yeah, I, I do. And what you said earlier, I
think there is a tendency within even health is
for people to basically get behind, as you said,
what worked for them and find ways of
scientifically justifying their own personal
biases. So whatever works for them, they're going
(14:54):
to keep kind of cheerleading. So it is, it is
difficult to try and maintain impartiality in the
face of, of your own personal lived experience,
however effective that has been. But I agree that
there is, there isn't a one size fits all.
Everyone's going to have a different percentage
response to each different intervention, whether
(15:16):
that's someone who really can't tolerate any
light after sunset. And some people really find
benefit from, you know, cutting out vegetables.
So everyone's going to respond differently. And
for that reason, like you said, I emphasize food.
Diet, like diet. I say that to my patients. You
know, optimal health lies somewhere in the middle
of these. And yeah, you want to be doing most of
(15:40):
them and most that you're able to. If you, if, if
your health is a problem and you need to get back
to that thriving point of view, that state of
being.
Meredith Oke (15:49):
Yes. And I love that food diet, light diet,
because I think one of the other things is that,
you know, and we, we talk about this a lot in the
certification, right? Like if all the research
on, on margarine came out, right, and we found
out that actually margarine is really bad for
you. Everyone's like, okay, I'm going to take
margarine out of the healthy food category and
(16:11):
move it over to the toxic food category. Got it.
But when you say to somebody like, your light
bulbs are toxic, they're like, what are you
talking about? Right? Like, we don't even have a
framework for good light, bad light. We don't
even think about it in those terms. So I love
that that you're framing it that way for your
patients and for someone who's new, how, how
(16:32):
would you explain what healthy light is versus
what toxic light is or unhealthy light?
Dr. Max Gulhane (16:41):
Yeah, I was having this exact conversation with
the last patient of the day yesterday, and I
pointed up to the fluorescent bulb in my clinic
room that I try and keep off most of the day, but
when it's overcast and dark in Aubry, I have to
turn it on. I'll have my blue blockers on. But I
(17:02):
said to him, I said, look, that, that is the meth
of light. Like, that's, that's the
methamphetamine of light it that it's an isolated
blue wavelength, it's not balanced by red. It has
no non visible, you know, infrared or any other
type of non visible wavelength. It is, you know,
the color temperature of the midday. And when you
(17:25):
exposed to it at the wrong time or in general,
but particularly at the wrong time later in the
day, after dark, you are stimulating yourself
massively by that light signal. And that's going
to prevent your body from making the melatonin
hormone. It's going to promote your body's
cortisol level, all this kind of thing. So I try
(17:48):
and explain it that just like there's junk food,
there's also junk light. And it's, it's a, it's a
highly refined form of light. And this is a, the
way that I explain food, food products to people
is if you're eating something that's processed,
anything that's processed is, is by humans is
(18:08):
going to be bad for you. Whether it's processed
wheat, you know, processed seed oils, processed
coca leaf, you know, anything that humans have
refined and purified is, is suboptimal. And that,
that analogy I think maps beautifully onto light
as well. So whenever you've got that blue light
(18:30):
that's been presented without the other
wavelengths, you've got a problem. And it also
helps to bring up the light basically spectra. I
often do that for my patients and I show them,
look at what natural daylight look like, look how
balanced it is across all the different visible
colors and then look at led, look at or all these
(18:52):
different sources. And that's a great way of
communicating to patients. Well, hang on, this is
not natural. And I think we don't have to go too
complex or too deep into it to just, that's a
visual depiction of something that's obviously
not natural. So yeah, that's kind of my general
approach. For someone who's got no idea or.
Meredith Oke (19:12):
No background in it, that makes a lot of sense. I
like that a lot. So the light that comes out of
the sun is different at different types of times
of day, but it tends to have a full spectrum.
Whereas the light that comes out of a light bulb
is like processed light in the way that refined
(19:35):
sugar is processed or refined flour is processed
and it's harsh and narrow. So we don't have all
of those other frequencies balancing anything out.
Dr. Max Gulhane (19:44):
Yeah, and like to your point earlier, people just
don't have an understanding or framework of, of
this. You know, people have an inclination that
eating refined sugar is bad. You know, a Lot of
people have an inclination that eating vegetable
oils is, is not intuitively healthy for them. But
you know, every new house that's being, that gets
(20:05):
built in Australia and in these, in estates, they
have led down lights and they're the harshest,
whitest, harshest, widest light you can, you can
find. And you know, there's the street lights in
these places are blaring. So people are getting
light into their bedrooms. They're not having a
(20:26):
fully dark, dark bedroom. And then the WI fi
router, the Internet ethernet port is in the
walking closet or opposite the main bedroom. So
where people are default plugging their WI fi
routers in is going to be next to very close to
where they sleep. So the whole, not only do
(20:46):
people not have a framework for understanding how
harmful this light environment, this artificial
light environment is, the whole environment, the
built environment, whether that's at home or at
work, is also set up for the exact opposite of
what you and I know to be an optimal human light
environment. So there's no wonder why people are
(21:11):
sick, overweight, or having carbohydrate
addictions. All these problems that we know have
a deep contribution by their light environment.
It's, that's why I respect what you're doing so
much. Because we really need to give an awareness
that, that this is not normal, this is not
natural, and this is very, very meaningfully
(21:32):
impacting health.
Meredith Oke (21:35):
Yes. So explain to us what's happening. So let's
start with, with the harmful piece and then we'll
talk about the healing piece, which would be, you
know, going out in natural sunlight, especially
in the morning. But so the harmful piece is I
come home from work at the end of the day, it's
starting to get dark out. I throw on my overhead
(21:57):
led, I turn on the television, I'm scrolling on
my phone, and I do that till like 11 o'clock at
night. And then I shut it all off and go to bed.
And there's still some of those super harsh
street lights coming through the cracks in the
blinds. And it's not quite dark and I can still
kind of see, but whatever, that's the way it is.
And then I wonder why I'm not sleeping well. So
(22:22):
if that's my sort of environment, what is that
light doing to my body? What is the effect?
Dr. Max Gulhane (22:30):
Yeah, so I think of it as you're basically not
giving your body a break, you're not allowing
your body to recover. And the reason why is
because prior to the invention of the electricity
grid, the only sources of light that we had were
candlelight, firelight after dark. And prior to
(22:54):
organized civilization, for the millions of years
of human evolution, we were adapted and evolved
to having periods of distinct absence of light.
So we had sun rising, we had a changing but
balanced exposure to sunlight with visible and
(23:16):
non, non visible spectra that that changed and
modulated throughout the day. That was in a
constant state of programming our biological
functions. And then it ended and there was
complete darkness. And during that period the
body was able to go into its, you know, nocturnal
or its sleep mode with a whole bunch of, of
(23:38):
hormonal actions taking place, particular of that
melatonin hormone from your pineal gland. So
that's kind of the norm. That was what allowed us
to exist and that's what we were adapted to. I
think that's the key point. What is normal, what
is natural? What does our biology need? And that
(23:58):
was it. It was absence of light at dark and it
was constant exposure to natural sunlight
frequencies. So with the invention of the
electric grid and then or fast forward all the
way up to today, the presence of that artificial
light at night is preventing us from accessing
(24:19):
that, that normal light absence period during,
during darkness that we need to recover. So when
that, when that's occurring, we're not making
melatonin, we're not, we have having cortisol
elevated, we're not recovering. And when we're
sending critically the wrong signals to our
(24:40):
biology about how to program the entire organism.
So that's how I think about it at a very high
level. Again it's just like people in this
society are used to eating every two hours. What
was evolutionarily normal that we would have
(25:00):
periods of fasting where we didn't have any food.
So that yin and Yang, the absence and the
presence, absence of food, presence of food,
absence of light, presence of food has been lost.
And now we're constantly just sipping from the
slurpee of artificial light all through the
night. And we can go into the exact mechanisms,
but that's critically the issue because you're
(25:22):
not allowing the body to recover and it has
deleterious effects on our ability to use glucose
to all the mitochondrial function, everything. So
that, that's I guess how I think about it at a
high level.
Meredith Oke (25:39):
Lovely, thank you for that explanation. And
that's the explanation that I like to go with
that makes sense to me. Now I know that there are
people listening who are like he said, mechanism,
what is it? So let's, we will briefly, I don't
want to go go too deep into, into that side of
things. But the high level, the high level
(26:01):
explanation is that a lack of darkness and the
presence of artificial light is causing our
bodies to not be able to restore and repair them.
Repair the way we're supposed to when we're
sleeping. So what is the mechanism at play there?
Just briefly, we don't have to spend too long
here, but I know if I don't ask.
Dr. Max Gulhane (26:21):
Yeah, so. So it's the blue, the blue and green
wavelengths when they hit your retina, your eye.
And that light gets sensed by your non visual
photoreceptors, your intrinsically photosensitive
retinal ganglion cells. And there's the opsins,
like melanopsin, sense these light wavelengths
(26:44):
and they send signals all the way from your
retina to your hypothalamus to your
suprachiasmatic nucleus. And that affects the way
your body's, your, your body's ability to make
melatonin. So the melatonin hormones is secreted
by the pineal gland at nighttime, a couple of
(27:07):
hours after sunset, in, in the absence of light,
it gets secreted. So when we're exposed to these
artificial lights, we're telling the body, no,
don't make melatonin. Because again, you, you,
it's the color temperature of the daytime. It's a
daytime like signal. So you, you get that dump of
melatonin that we're supposed to make
appropriately. Plus, people haven't seen this
(27:28):
morning sunrise because their first light that
they've seen has been their phone when they've
woken up. So the programming, the coordination of
the circadian signaling from the beginning of the
day all the way to the point at which they lay
down is being disrupted and is being confused in
(27:49):
the absence of. I mean, melatonin is not the only
hormone. But there's a reason why shift workers
have increased risk of cancer. There's reasons
why vitamin D deficiency is associated with all
these cancers and ischemic heart disease and all
the rest. Because it's a proxy for sunlight
(28:11):
exposure, and it's a proxy for the
appropriateness of one's circadian rhythm. And
when those things are disrupted, then again, your
endogenous antioxidant system, which is governed
by melatonin, precisely, is out of whack. And
melatonin is not only secreted by the pineal
(28:33):
gland, this melatonin made in your mitochondria
by yourselves during the day on exposure to
infrared and UVA light. And that melatonin is
locally having an antioxidant effect. So if
people are not getting daytime sunlight and
they're also exposed to artificial light. They're
having the double whammy of lack of exposure,
(28:54):
lack of secretion of that local daytime melatonin
and the nighttime melatonin. So again, it's like
the antioxidant system isn't being properly
primed or properly allowed to function and you
get mitochondrial dysfunction, oxidative stress
and all these things. So yeah, that's I guess
(29:18):
again focused on the action to melatonin, but
that is how I think about it particularly.
Meredith Oke (29:26):
Okay, so these are all the problems that we're
causing in our system by not having a
sufficiently dark or dim light environment in the
evening and while we're sleeping. So what is
going on when we go outside in the morning,
particularly at sunrise or UVA rise that those
(29:47):
first few hours of the day, how is that helping
us?
Dr. Max Gulhane (29:52):
Yeah, I see it as, as a, the signal, it's like
the, it's maybe it's almost like the, the band or
the orchestra is getting the cue to all start
playing at the same time. You know, otherwise
without, without that coordinating signal, you
know, everyone's kind of still warming up,
playing odd, odd notes at the wrong time. But the
(30:16):
critical aspect of that morning sunlight through
visible and non visible light and later, as you
said, the UVA comes in later in the day is that
we're basically pressing play on all our bodily
processes and getting them aligned and
coordinated to start. I love how Dr. J.
(30:39):
Montgomery describes it. It's like that your eye
is one of the most, it's a most powerful
neuroendocrine organ. So what people I guess
would benefit from understanding is that that eye
is sensing your light environment. It's not only
forming images, it's actually sensing the light
(31:05):
and the different wavelengths of light. And the
morning light is critical because it's
essentially setting you up for not only to start
the day, but it's also setting you up for that,
that night's sleep later in the day. So yeah, I
talked to Kerry Bennett about this and you know,
we, we made the comment that, you know, if
(31:25):
cutting out seed oils is the 8020 of nutrition,
then getting morning sunlight is probably, you
know, the 6040 of, of circadian biology just
because of how important it is in, in programming
everything.
Meredith Oke (31:39):
Absolutely. And I think it's really interesting
because before I sort of came to all of this from
a, from a health and healing perspective, the
only time I thought about circadian rhythm was
when I traveled through time zones and became jet
lagged. And I kind of had a vague idea that like,
yeah, circadian rhythm is like why I feel tired
(32:01):
in the middle of the day when I'm in a different
time zone. But I had no understanding, and even
some of the foremost experts in circadian rhythms
had no understanding of just how critical having
a regulated circadian biology is. Could you
really bring that home for us? Because I think
(32:22):
that that's a piece that we often miss. I've come
to the place where I feel like it's basically
impossible to be healthy if your circadian
rhythms are misaligned.
Dr. Max Gulhane (32:35):
Yeah. And it ties back to the point we were
making earlier in the discussion, is that the
dietary stuff is important, and it will
definitely help, but it is a facet. I see dietary
interventions. And the biochemistry behind what
(32:55):
we do with diet is fitting into this wider. This
wider area of circadian and mitochondrial health,
which is fundamentally a problem of physics and
of biophysics. So the point is that all these
bodily functions do have a circadian regulation.
(33:18):
And I talked to Dr. Jack Cruz in my podcast
series about Pomse, and for the listeners, it's
essentially a gene that's expressed in a bunch of
neurons and a bunch of places in the body, but it
has all these different products that get made
when we're exposed to UV light that govern
(33:43):
metabolism, they govern the stress response, they
govern addiction centers. So the key. The key
part about why people are eating so much, you
know, we talk about the hyperpalatability of
carbohydrates and sugar addictions and. And the
breakdown products of linoleic acid, which all
(34:05):
are undoubtedly playing a role in. In food
addiction. But the absence of that regulated
circadian rhythm and the cues that are being sent
by artificial light exposure. Afternoon. A light
I look at as umbrella kind of causes of. Of
things like carbohydrate addiction, you know,
leptin resistance and insulin resistance. So we
(34:28):
can kind of attack the problem later down the
causal tree. And it's not to say that that, that
won't work. I mean, I. I'm. I just helped a
patient come, you know, half his insulin dose,
and we've only, you know, we. We're doing. On
the. We're doing a low carb diet. But I think
that if we could also get him regulated from a
circadian point of view, then the improvement
(34:50):
that we'd make would be even greater and getting
him out in the sun. So to answer the question, I
see it as the umbrella problem. The umbrella
problem is our. It's our regulated or lack of
regulated circadian rhythm. And the exposure to
all these artificial lights, whether they're
Visible like blue light or non visible like WI fi
(35:14):
and the rest of those types of non native emf.
Meredith Oke (35:19):
Right. And so what kind of outcomes are you
seeing in your practice and with your patients
for? Let's start with people who are able to
comply with your suggested light protocols.
What's happening with those people?
Dr. Max Gulhane (35:35):
Yeah, so people, people just feel a lot more
grounded. They feel a lot better. A lot of people
have just described again, what you, what you've
said to me, which is, you know, they felt it was
kind of the missing piece in, in what they have
been doing. I mean, one of my favorite stories is
a old couple, an old lady in her 80s who, who
(35:59):
hadn't slept through the night in the past
probably 15 years. And I just said to her, look,
because I'm a little bit careful with the
elderly, with the low light environment because I
don't want them to fall over after dark, but I
just said, go sit on the porch and see the
sunrise every morning without any kind of glasses
on. And just sitting out there with her husband
(36:20):
every morning was enough to. She came back
ecstatic that she'd slept through the night and
was sleeping through the night for the first time
in over a decade. So really simple and nothing
fancy. But yeah, those type of stories are, are
very, very common. And yeah, people, people are
(36:43):
finding that, you know, often I'm seeing a lot of
patients who perhaps have been through
naturopaths, a couple maybe functional doctors
and you know, they're on a, they're on a list of,
of supplements and that no one's talked about
their line environment. And again, it's like,
yeah, we can add all these things in. But you
(37:07):
know, maybe you listeners of Red, Nassim Taleb,
he's got a concept of via Negativa, which is
first remove the bad before we add things on. And
I think removing that or improving that line
environment should be in terms of order of
operations. It takes precedent. Before we add,
you know, a list of expensive supplements.
Meredith Oke (37:30):
Yeah, yeah, I really come to think that as well.
And again, when I first got into that, like I was
saying earlier, we have that all or nothing
thinking, I was like, I'm never taking a
supplement ever again. It's all about light. So
I've now sort of softened that stance and I do
think that supplementation has its place. But as
(37:52):
you said, after you've optimized your light
environment. Because how, like, how can a
practitioner even know what supplement would be
useful to somebody if their body is in total
circadian chaos? Right. If they're totally
dysregulated if they're not. Like if you put
someone on a melatonin supplement when the
problem could be fixed with light, like you're
(38:14):
not solving any problems, as you pointed out.
Dr. Max Gulhane (38:17):
Yeah, yeah. And the point I wanted to make as
well is that you know that, that the light part,
the signals like the retinal hypothalamic tract
that goes from your eye to your hypothalamus,
that projects to your pituitary gland and the
regulation of all those pituitary hormones is
influenced by, by our light environment. So it's
(38:39):
not just the pineal and the melatonin, but
everything along all these axes, the ovarian, the
adrenal, everything, the thyroid, all these axes
have an influence by, by light signal. And the
coordination of a lot of these hormones which
follow diurnal curves is influenced by the light
(39:00):
environment. And the other point, Meredith, is
that this is not like hoodoo or it's not like
this is not science that exists. If you look in
PubMed and you type in these findings, there is a
massive body of scientific literature that is
(39:21):
describing everything that we're talking about
and as is the case with a range of lifestyle
medicine, is that that scientific foundation is
simply not being translated or applied in a
clinical practice setting. It's not because
there's an absence of evidence of efficacy. It's
(39:43):
simply that the guidelines are not reflecting
what we know to be true and effective. And we say
the same thing in the dietary low carb paradigm.
And there's lots of different reasons for that,
but one could, especially a patient or other
doctors who might be listening. One could be
(40:04):
misled to think that this is very, very fringe,
or there's simply not the evidence to justify
what we're talking about. But it takes a very,
very cursory look at the evidence in the
literature to even. You can look up Wikipedia if
you, if you don't want to go that deep. But
everything that we've talked about is very well
researched and, and applied, kind of established.
(40:28):
And the application of the knowledge through
things like blue light blocking glasses and red
lights and all this kind of thing is simply the
application of that science that already exists.
So I just want to make that point to some of your
listeners who might think this is fringe. It's.
(40:48):
If you look yourself and not rely on a filter of
perhaps mainstream medicine, functional medicine,
all these entities that have their own reasons,
often financial, for promoting certain treatment
protocols over others, if you do your own
research, you'll find that what we've been
(41:09):
talking about is very well established.
Meredith Oke (41:13):
That is a really, really good point. Yes. The
research just on circadian rhythm alone is. I
mean, I feel like every month some major new
paper comes out just showing just how important
it is. And last summer, the New York Times
Magazine did a huge cover story. It was like 10
(41:35):
pages long on circadian rhythm. And there's like
an anecdote in there where some of the research
came out that showed just how, how important it
is. And the, the head of the Circadian Research
Institute was like, what? Really? Oh, we, we were
just, we were just thinking like light and like
sort of light cycles, and they had no idea. So
(41:57):
it. Yes, it is. Absolutely. The evidence is all
there and that's what we talk about a lot. And
why, like, we started the certification is like.
And what you're doing with your podcast, it's
like building a bridge from the science into the
practice. Because I don't know if it ever existed
or if it, or if the bridge broke, but there does
not seem to be a pipeline of best practice into
(42:21):
that's going into the offices of the
practitioners, even the naturopaths. Right. Like,
it's, there's a disconnect there. And all of, all
of this. And maybe it's because the answer is so
simple, right? Like, go and watch. Sit on your
porch at sunrise with your husband. It's like, if
(42:42):
I feel like solving 15 years of insomnia should
be more complicated than that. Yeah, but it's not
in most cases.
Dr. Max Gulhane (42:50):
And, and that point you made about the
simplicity, I do think that the degree to which
something is simple is that agree to which
someone can't make money off it. So, yeah,
getting your feet on the bare earth and watching
the morning sunrise is the cheapest intervention,
health intervention in maybe the history of the
(43:13):
world. And no one can make money off that. And we
see not only mainstream medicine, but as you
mentioned, functional neuropathy, that there's
expensive solutions to problems that have, you
know, that these are light problems. So perhaps
(43:34):
that's, that's, you know, if I was putting my
skeptical hat on, I would, I would definitely say
that it's a money issue. And no one can make
money from these simple circadian interventions.
So that's why they're less well promoted, I
guess. What. And I really like how you framed
the, the job of making this pipeline into. To the
(43:56):
practitioners. And yeah, I see that as critical.
And just like what you're doing, you don't
necessarily need to have an MD to kind of give
this advice. Health Coaches, anyone can give this
advice and if it's in the best interest of the
patient, then other MDs need to put aside their
(44:17):
egos and not feel like this is, you know,
privileged information and they're the only ones
able to give this information. If it's in the
best interest of the patient, then this needs to
be talked about by everyone. No matter what their
training background is. If they understand what,
what, how the biology works and they're giving
good advice, then that, that, that's key. The,
(44:38):
the other point I wanted to make is that coming
from metabolic lifestyle, a dietary kind of
paradigm originally and actively practicing as a
doctor who's reversing diabetes and lifestyle
diseases with low carb carnivore, I see it as a
personal interest of mine to integrate the
(45:01):
dietary and the light stuff from a metabolic
point of view. And that's why I'm so interested
in what Dr. Jack Cruz was talking about, about
COMC and protein called clip and all these
ability for blue light to promote fasting, raised
(45:24):
fasting glucose and fasting insulin irrespective
of food. Because I think that is a real
underserved or under talked about area, which is
the intersection of, of the light environment and
metabolism. And that, that is really, really
fascinating because so many people are insulin
resistant and metabolically unwell and have
visceral fat. So that is, yeah, that's a personal
(45:47):
interest of mine. And I hope to, I guess, keep
keep going on this intellectual journey and keep
talking to people from both areas and, and kind
of package this up in a way that again is most
able to give to a patient who's got diabetes,
fatty liver, visceral fat, and be like, okay,
here you go. This is how we start to heal you.
Meredith Oke (46:12):
That's a wonderful idea. I love that so much and
what it brings up for me again as a coach who
works with people on the more emotional and
behavior change side, is that bringing in the
light piece and marrying the metabolic with the
circadian, I think also just gives people such a,
(46:37):
it's a real relief, right? Because there's so
much shame around our food habits, especially if
you have diet, you know, you have type 2 diabetes
or you're overweight, people feel so much shame
that they can't control it. And then to get the
knowledge that there are other habits in their
life that they see as completely disconnected
from this problem, like looking at their phone at
(47:00):
midnight on full factory settings, to know that
those things are actively working against them
and making everything worse. And it's not just a
willpower it's not just that they're totally
screwed and there's no way out. I do see that it
offers relief and hope to know that actually I've
(47:22):
been swimming against the current trying to
change how my body's responding to food without
changing my life.
Dr. Max Gulhane (47:30):
Yeah, definitely, yes.
Meredith Oke (47:31):
So anything else Dr. Gilhane, that you'd like to
leave us with?
Dr. Max Gulhane (47:35):
Yeah, so, so I'm yeah, on, on the vein of, of I
guess marrying all this together. I'm hosting an
event in, in Albury and hopefully it'll be the
first of many. But I've got Dr. Jalal Khan who's
a circadian quantum dentist and I'll be talking.
(47:56):
We've got Dr. Anthony Chaffee who's on the
carnivore side. We've got some regenerative,
regenerative pharma who I work with. So we're
really kind of bringing in all aspects of, of
what I think is, is good, relevant for people's
health. And I really think that moving forward,
like collectively we don't need more drugs,
(48:20):
people don't need more drugs, they don't need
more supplements, they need more very high
quality, regeneratively raised ruminant meat.
They need more seafood, they need more circadian
regulation and they need less WI fi and less,
(48:41):
less, less drugs. So that is I guess an angle
that I'm really excited about in the future. And
I think that optimal health for everyone, for the
population, for reversing this chronic disease
epidemic, for reversing the metabolic disease
epidemic, for addressing all the fundamental
(49:04):
problems, rising cancer and dementia rates,
everything in my mind this is just my opinion
lies in this confluence of an optimal human
species, appropriate diet of unprocessed food
rich in animal products and a highly regulated
circadian rhythm, the absence of artificial light
(49:27):
at night and morning sunrise and everything like
that. And I think that regenerative farming is a
key point because that's one of the delivery
mechanisms of getting that high quality food into
people. So that's, I guess to end this
discussion. Again, it's like I'm emphasizing the
holistic aspect of this. And again it's not just
(49:48):
one thing, it's a whole confluence of things. And
if we can add up, you know, all these 5
percenters in terms of behavior change, then
that's the key to, to optimal health as I see it.
Meredith Oke (50:01):
I love it. Okay. And we actually there are quite
a lot of quantum enthusiasts in Australia so I
want to just give some more details. When is your
event?
Dr. Max Gulhane (50:13):
So it will be on August 6th in Albury here,
Aubrey. New South Wales.
Meredith Oke (50:20):
Okay. And Albury is, you said sort of in between
Sydney and Melbourne, is that right? Did I get
that? Yeah.
Dr. Max Gulhane (50:27):
Correct.
Meredith Oke (50:27):
Okay.
Dr. Max Gulhane (50:28):
So it's about, it's about a six hour drive from
Sydney and it's a three and a half hour drive
from Melbourne on the border of Queens of
Victoria and New South Wales.
Meredith Oke (50:37):
Okay. And this event takes place over, over two
or three days or it's a.
Dr. Max Gulhane (50:43):
It'S a single day event. There'll be about,
there's four, four speakers and. But we're
organizing a farm tour at the local Jake Wilkes
farm that will be happening day before and we'll
also be organizing an event dinner. So I'll, I
might send you the details. You can put them in
the show notes.
Meredith Oke (51:02):
We will put the details to that in the show
notes. We have shared this event in our
newsletter. We'll do that again and I'll
especially make sure that all of, all of our, the
Australian QVC members are aware of it and. Yeah.
Are you going to record the speakers? Will people.
Dr. Max Gulhane (51:19):
Yeah, yeah, that's the plan. Yeah.
Meredith Oke (51:21):
Great.
Dr. Max Gulhane (51:21):
Yeah.
Meredith Oke (51:22):
So we'll share those details when they come out
as well for people if they want to access the
recordings because this sounds like a, sounds
like a beautiful event. I'm so happy you're doing
it. I do think, as much as I love leveraging
technology, I do think in person meetups are, are
absolutely the key. We've got a quantum entangle
(51:42):
at a close up range.
Dr. Max Gulhane (51:44):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Meredith Oke (51:48):
Okay.
Dr. Max Gulhane (51:51):
Yeah. And if, if anyone is wanting to follow my
podcast. Yeah. As you said earlier, it's the
Regenerative Health podcast on the podcasting
apps. And I'm also on Twitter maxcorhan md and
Instagram. Dr. Underscore. Max underscore Gulhein.
Meredith Oke (52:10):
Perfect. And we will have links to all of that in
the show notes as well. So check out Dr.
Gulhane's podcast and follow him on his socials
and yeah, let's, let's keep this movement
growing. Thank you so much for your time today.
This has just been an absolute pleasure.
Dr. Max Gulhane (52:29):
Thank you Meredith and thanks for everything you
do as well.
Meredith Oke (52:32):
Thank you. This has been the Quantum Biology
Collective podcast to find a practitioner who
practices from this point of view. Visit our
directory@quantumbiologycollective.org if you are
a practitioner, definitely take a look at the
Applied Quantum Biology certification. A six week
(52:55):
study of the science of the new human health
paradigm and its practical application with your
patients and clients. We also love to feature
graduates of the program on this very podcast.
Until next time, the QVC.
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